Talk Elections

OK, here it is! The poll of the two candidates, now that the primaries are over. Feel free to post comments on the election, or how it would go in a real life general with an EC.

I have posted a prediction map (Gustaf3, I think it was) predicting a narrow GOP victory in the EC. I will not try to predict the actual election here on the board yet, but I think it's gonna be close... :)

Hmmm, both presidential candidates come from traditional battle ground states, and both vice presidential candidates come from states that almost always go to the other party.
I'd suppose that MI is solid Dem and PA is solid GOP.
Generally solid MS and IL would be tossups.

I made MS and IL tossups in my prediction. But I left PA at lean GOP, b/c I expect a strong showing by the Dems in the steel states. Michigan, on the other hand, would be very solidly Dem, with both the state senators being well recognized Democrats.

I voted for Supersoulty-Demrepdan.

Wait, did our chairman approve of this, because we haven't even held our convention yet?

I don't remeber any final agreement on format either.  I'm not whining, I just want to make sure that we know what is going on here, because this doesn't fit into what YoungRepub talked about at all.

i believe this is justa poll, not an official vote.

Mr Chairman?

I hope so.

Yes, its only a poll not the actual election.

Okay, good.

plus it is unregulated, no way to prove than non 10 vote people aren't voting.

whoever wins it's going to be close.

just a poll, matters little.

I posted my map.  I admit it may be a little bias.

Where is it posted?

Yes, where is it posted? And by the way...how are you guys making these prediction maps? Are you using the confidence and predicition maps under the 2004 section? If you are, I would think that your maps are going to become quite crowded....

P.S. I like your slogan Supersoulty. "A New Team for a New Era" lol  I think I'll be sticking that in my signature now.

Well, with my vote (for Supersoulty), this poll is extremely close.

50-50.

As a Southerner, I will be campaigning like crazy for Supersoulty-Demrepdan in Georgia and other southern states - Mississippi included.

This is the map posted by Supersoulty:
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I think Nym90 would sweep the midwest minus indiana, which is where I disagree with supersoulty.

It is on the predictions page.  Thanks, I thought it was a good slogan too.

I disagree.  I think that the combined influence of myself and Demrepdan, while failing to carry Ill. would cause a surge for us in Ohio and most other midwest states.  I think that Nym90's  margin of victory in Chicago would be just enough for him to carry Ill.  Not to discount Demrepdan's role in this at all, because I think his presence onthe ticket gives us a large chunk of the mid-west.

Yes, this is a poll not a vote, lol...like I would dare to do that... ;)

This thing is tied right now...it looks like the election will be really close.

lol You can be my Zell Miller.  :)

Here is my prediction map:
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Nym90 wins 291-247

How do you post your prediction maps?

Take the map you create with the electoral college calc deluxe on this site and but it in bracketed img and /img tags.

Like this?

[img/http://www.uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/GENERAL/PE2004/CAMPAIGN/evcalc4.php/img]

Yes, only you messed up your first tag.

Care to explain in what way? ;)
It looks just like the second one to me.

I'd help launch a campaign to help win California! So California would be a swing state lol

[img] is first tag

OK, here we go...

[img]http://www.uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/GENERAL/PE2004/CAMPAIGN/evcalc4.php/img]

I accidentally clicked on space bar...

[img]http://www.uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/GENERAL/PE2004/CAMPAIGN/evcalc4.php/img]

I will keep trying...

[img]/http://www.uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/GENERAL/PE2004/CAMPAIGN/evcalc4.php/img]

[img]/http://www.uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/GENERAL/PE2004/CAMPAIGN/evcalc4.php/[img]

You got your brackets right.

But it still doesn't work! :( What am I supposed to do now?

That last [img] should have a / before the img]

Like this?

[img]/http://www.uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/GENERAL/PE2004/CAMPAIGN/evcalc4.php/[img]

I think he meant like this [ / img]  Without the spaces of course.

Aha, thank you.

Like this, then?

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! There is a picture there now, but it doesn't appear! :(

I will burst into tears if this goes on...or fall asleep from exhaustion... :(

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Are you sure the adress is right then?  I tried posting the picture and it didn't work for me either.

I'm already doing that. I am the governor, you know.

I vote Supersoulty-Demrepdan

This is the same as the first map you posted.  This doesn't take Demrepdan's influence into account at all.

HEY!!! I want to post a map. Please tell me how.

Okay then can I atleast help with the campaign then? lol

Of course. You can also help me in my state elections. Ha.

1. Go to http://www.uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/GENERAL/PE2004/CAMPAIGN/evcalc4.php

2. Create your map according to which states you think each party is going to win (make sure to click 'Update' at the bottom of the screen).

3. Right-click on the map, open the map in a new window, copy the URL for that link.

4. In your post, paste the URL for the map inbetween [img] and /img], to get the picture onscreen. (You must put [ before /, I just didn't do it here because otherwise the computer would have looked for an image and got confused.)

Sorry if this sounds a bit complicated, but I hope it helps.

Thanks.

No problem. :)

It's not working. There is no update button at the bottom of the screen.

You mean in the link I posted? Try 'calculate', then 'update map'.

I did. I copy the whole map, only states.

Oh, right. Have you tried right-clicking just outside of the US borders on that map?

I did, but let me try again. Nope. I can save it but not open it in another window.

That's strange. I'm not really sure how else I can help you here, maybe somebody else can come up with something. Sorry.

Alright. Thanks anyway.

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This map takes into a count Harry's influence in the South and DemRepDan's influence in the Midwest.  So Nym90 wins by 22.  Though I'm sure I've over-exagerated the effects the VPs will have on the election.

To post this map, I followed the instructios above to make the map.  Then you right click outside the US and hit properties.  Then you copy the pictures address (from the tp of the properties window) into a post, plus the pages link (from the bottom of the properties window).

Well, I can't really show you cause the screen gets messed up.  Hope that helps some.

You know, I'm pretty powerful in CA and NV.

I doubt you are powerful enough to swing California away from the Democrats.  but I will give you Nevada.  Nym90 wins by 12.

I can't add.

No, you don't understand. California is revolutionizing. If you RECALL the RECALL, that did more than you think. Republicans' popularity here has gone up 52%!

But remeber, you're further to the right then Arnold ;)

I know, but the Republicans OVERALL were up by 52%.

My guess is that I'd do better in the Midwest and worse in the South than the prediction map indicates. Unless I win a landslide I doubt that even having a running mate from Mississippi can be enough to carry Mississippi since it is one of the most conservative states in the South. Tennessee would also be tough for me to win. However, I think I will win Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Iowa. Sure, Demrepdan is from the Midwest, but so am I, and I'm on the top of the ticket, so I should still do better than would otherwise be expected in the Midwest. Especially in Wisconsin since I was born in Wisconsin and even now only live about 60 miles from the state line.

Ah since I'm the Attorney General of California I should point out I'm very popular so I think PD and I can swing California in SouthSoulTy's favor.

Absolutely.

Mississippi is a big tossup; however, remember it does have a 40% African-American population and I would be very, very strongly promoting a GOTV for them.  That being said, MS is a tossup.
Louisiana, Arkansas,  and Tennessee, however, three more states where I will strongly campaign, should be classified as "lean Democrat."  They all close Clinton both times, and Carter in 1976.  With a Southern moderate on the ticket against two Northerners, I believe I stand a chance of bringing all three of them into the Dem column.
Missouri and Florida both went with Carter and Clinton and I should have somewhat of a pull there, but I alone am unlikely to totally pull those states into the Dem column.  Help from local senators/representatives, etc., though make all of them in play.
Kentucky and Georgia each chose Clinton and Carter, and could *possibly* be in play, but it is unlikely.
Other Southern states are likely too conservative for me to have a significant pull (AL, TX, NC, SC, VA)

An Attorney General of a State does not have that much pull in an election. The DEMS will carry that State hands down. I will go there, as a former candidate and campaign side by side with Harry and Nym90, if they'll have me, and kick some Republican ahss.

Well, like I said, I over-exagerated the VPs imortance with that map.  I think Nym90 will carry all the states I have shown for him, plus Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Missouri for an overwhelming win.

I can win Illinois. TRUST ME! Many people think Illinois has been swinging to the Dems the last few years, with that in mind, you must realize I am a LIBERAL REPUBLICAN. They know I have a Democratic background, and the people of Illinois will vote for me. Plus the PRIDE that Illinoisans will have, that they actually have a fellow Illinoisan, running for VICE PRESIDENT! I bet I could carry 98 of Illinois's 102 counties (excluding Cook County), and win the popular vote by 61%. I WILL NOT LOSE MY HOME STATE!!

Ah you see I'm differnt from most Attorny Generals I am very popular in this state. And my hollywood connections will help get conservitive actors and muscians to appear and thus attract interest to the event.(and dude this is all for fun common I joined too late to be in any primaries so let me atleast have this)

OK, I will make an other attempt at posting my map when I get home from school.

It's similar to most of the other maps here, but I think the Dems will make a surprisingly strong showing in the south and mid-west, winning most of the tossups there, but then losing the election due to bad performance in the southwest, b/c Supersoulty makes good use of his Catholicism, winning the Hispanic voter, giving the Dems nothing but CA and WA in the west (and HI of course).

But then I read that Nym90 is fom Wisconsin, so he wins that, giving him the election 274-264. A really close one.

OK, You've got it, I don't want to be a spoiler.

I am a Catholic as well.

Ah, me didn't know that. Then I assume you will attack Supersoulty on who's a "Catholic's best friend" and retain  lot of Hispanics, thus making AZ, NM and FL more in play again. But it will hurt you among WASPs in the South, so he might win back some there...I will have to alter my predictions.

Basically I will not make my Catholicism an issue.  However, my Catholicism shuold prevent Supersoulty from exploiting his.
So the effect is nil on both of us likely.

That's up to the campaign manager to decide, lol...

I think Supersoulty would try and make himself out as not another Republican, using his home state and religion to enforce this. This will improve the GOP-showing among Hispanics. I have altered my predictions yet again and am now predicting a really close race, 270-268. Don't remember to whom right now, will post that in a minute... :)

Supersoulty wins, despite you winning LA, MS TN and AR, as well as NM, WI and MN.

Do you have a map?

I intend to speak about my faith and opptimism when I campaign, not my Catholisism per se.

But I do intend to campaign as "not just another republican", not dising my party, but more of a Reagan kind of different.

Ah, so I see why Nym90 is the appropriate choice. He won't stoop to conquer to the degree that the wall of separation between church and state crumbles. I have no doubt this will hurt supersoulty, because if his faith informs his political views, then it must be fairly extreme.

Welcome Aboard.

I don't understand what we're doing here. How do we vote? When?

Here is the confidence map I came up with.
Nym90/Harry--237
Supersoulty/Demrepdan--205
Tossup--96
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If you call me extreme, I must say that it only proves how extreme you are.

Iowa's going Democrat, Harry ;)

Zogby Poll
West Virginia

Nym90           62%
Supersoulty   35%

Yes, but I cannot post it b/c I am stupid... :(

You can check out Gustaf3, I belive it is. But just search for "Gus" on the prediction page and you will get all my maps up. The only one that haves southern states in the Dem column is the appropriate one. It says that it's about you as well.

Another oathetic attempt from me then...

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WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? :(

Listen, here is how you get the image up, if you are on windows.

Step one: Right-click on the image.
Step two: You will see a "properties" option when you right-click.  Click on that and you will see a information box.
Step three: you will see the image's web adress int he box.  Copy that.  Then paste it in between img and /img brackets.

That's exactly what I did!

Do it on the map itself.

What do you mean? Do what exactly on the map itself?

Right-click on the map that you create with the EC calc deluxe.

OK, i will try. Hang on.

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I'm rooting for you!  You can do this!

So close, but yet so far... :(

What was wrong this time?

Right-click on the map you create with the ec calc.  I don't know what the map you just posted is.

Neither do I...I thought it was my map, but my colourd don't seem to have stuck.... :(

I will make another attempt.

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Keep trying.

I will, i think I'm getting the hang of ot now... ;)

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YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :)

We would win illinois.

I view Illinois as a tossup, the Florida of 2004, but I think that Demrepdan would carry his homestate in the end, though it would be extremely close. I gave you Mississippi with the same reasoning.

Nym is from the midwest, so he would  carry Illinois despite DRD.

I'd just like to point out about Ohio theres a big population of Greeks there and since I do Speak Greek I'd be willing to help Supersoulty campaign there.

OK, so you'll fly in from California and say "Hey, vote Supersoulty coz I can speak Greek"? :)

I think you still lose Ohio, but I might trade Ohio for Illinois if you two keep coming at me like this.

Just out of curiosity, wouldn't California (in our fantasy election) go Republican?  ...Since we've got at least 2 California Republicans and no California Democrats?

Gustaf, you've inspired me now to make my own map.  Before, I was afraid I'd screw it up and not post it right.

w00t, Gustaf!

:)

Lol, haha...

Btw, this is based on how it would go in reallife, not the fantasy. So the Republican governor of PA is running with the formerly Democratic senator of IL, etc. All of us exist as political figures, the nation is the same politically as it is now, and the campaign kicks off. Get the idea?

Well I'll probably go there one week before the election and tour around and at some point go to a major Greek community and make a speech mostly in Greek telling them why I think Supersoulty and Demrepdan fit the values most Greeks have. Plus Ohio went Republican in the last election.

So in short No I wouldn't just go there say "I speak greek vote for these guys" lol :)

But if it means swapping IL for Ohio thats okay I'll shut up then hah

Ah ok, makes sense then.  Thanks, Gustaf!

Ok... I'm having trouble posting this map.  Why am I stupid?

Hehehehehe...let's go through this again, shall we? :)

And in response to your question, I suppose you were just born that way... ;)

sigh

I just can't get it to work!  What do I do?

I followed Miami's instructions!

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This is my more "reality" map, as I think it would happen in real life, after a few close states...

I did it, I did it!

I'm not stupid afterall!

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Here are the states I think it would toss-ups.

I think thats pretty much right except maybe Oregon and Washington might need to swap and CA might be a toss up but other then that its right on.

Good job GWBfan.

Once and for all, DemrepDan would not be able to carry Illinois.  Nym is a midwesterner himself and the state would not be in play.

Demrepdan is moderate and popular in his home state. Also, he would campaign heavily there. It would be in play, I can assure you of that. But I am seriously thinking of letting that and Ohio switch places.

I think that Oregon, Ohio, and West Virginia should at least be tossups as well.

Hopefully Realpolitik can help me win West Virginia. :)

Why would California be a tossup? (And don't come with any "b/c of the popular attorney general" talk). And Oregon is less Democratic than Washington, at least in the last election.

BTW, what part of Pennsylvania are you from Supersoulty? If you are from the central or western part of the state, that would give you more of an edge in Ohio and especially West Virginia.

California is not a tossup, State attorney generlas don't win national election.  But Al could campign for Nym in WV and win the state, as he is a senator, and I have Nym up 40% in my state.

Califorbia has a Republican Govenor who won by wide margins in real life.

I have all these three as tossups, but I haven't posted a map with tossups included, maybe I will.

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Okay.  Let's start up some more debate.  This map is first based on those registered to vote in our election (ie Ca, N.J. go Rep based on the voters in the fantasy election).  Second, with those states that were not represented by anyone registered, I simply judged on how they would probably go in real life or how they might be influenced by registered voters nearby.

In the case of Minnesota and New York...yep, toss-ups, b/c in each state we have 1 Dem and 1 Rep.  Minnesota would be a toss-up anyway, I believe but there's no question New York would go Dem in *any* alternate reality.  lol

I'm originally from West Central PA, but right now I live in Erie which is right next door.

There are 2 NY Dems - Miami and Finn.

Ah, ok.  But did Finn register to vote?

All I did was look at the names in the Voter Registration thread.  So if Finn wasn't there, I didn't count him - same goes for anyone else who wasn't anywhere to be found in that thread.

And, of course, being human I might have made a few mistakes here and there.  One I already corrected, having Miss. go Republican while Alabama went Dem - now fixed.

Yes, he registered. There are actually two or more independents from NY, so it could be interesting....but they haven't registered.

I really hope we do get some Independents, that would make it quite interesting since there probably will be no swing voters.

How would anti-human Jaichind vote?  He's from NY.

That's right. He would vote for the candidate that promises not to do "a Carter" and make human rights an essential part of foreign policy... :)

With him there are 3 independents in NY.

Maybe we can convince Dave Leip to register... :)

I wonder what Leip's political leanings are.  He has that Indpendent avatar, but I don't believe him.

I've wondered this before too.  Hmmm.

He posted a political test recently.

Okay, cool.  So 2 Dems, 1 Rep in N.Y.  That puts N.Y. in the Dem column.  I edited my last map to reflect that.  The next toss-up would now be Minnesota.  I would put that as lean Republican, considering that Gustaf isn't actually from Minnesota!  lol  But this IS a fantasy election.....

He aid dean and Kerry were around 50%.  He's a Democrat.  Or a Republican.  I don't know.

Well he lives in Massachusetts, so probability leads me to belive that he's a Dem.

He apparently got Dean, Bush, Greens and Libertarians at pretty equal numbers, but none above 54%. So he is a true independent. He claims that, in the last Massachussetts election he voted for a libertarian, a whig, an independent 2 Dems and 1 Rep (or the other way around, I'm not sure). So there is no telling how he would vote.

Well, maybe we could ASK him...
No, that's a dumb idea.  :)

Dare you approach the ADMINISTRATOR? *backs away from computer in awe, then returns to press "post"*

He provides that e-mail link......
We musn't ask him!  We will find out!

You're on your own, I'm not messing with the ADMINISTRATOR *backs away from computer, etc...*

Neither am I.

Here is my new Nym v. Supersoulty map:

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That map is still wrong. I would be able to swing California and Nevada.

Nevada, possibly, but not California. It's to liberal and Democratic to be swung by you. Just like Immy can't give us Idaho, to give one example. Presidential candidates can have a big impact on their home states, and VPs have a more moderate effect. But every single senator or governor doesn't. You might lower the victory margin some, but not swing the entire state.

I would very much doubt that, California wouldn't swing at the drop of the hat.

How many times do I have to tell you guys? California has revolutionized. Don't forget that 2 of the most conservative presidents have come from us: Nixon and Reagan. The Recall did a lot more than you know. I've said this before, the Republicans' popularity here has gone up 52%.

As far as I can see, the one thing that keeps conservatives from winning California is the urban vote, namely LA and San Francisco. Look at the way districts vote in each Presidential election; the coastal urban areas are strictly Demoratic, whereas the rural areas are mainly Republican, and the former will continue to swing CA in the Democrats' favour.

True, Govenor Schwarzenegger is a Republican, but it bears pointing out that he's a social liberal. GWB is very much to the right of Arnie.

But that was another era. California was conservative until the 90s or so, since then it has trended Democrat. I am willing to accept that it isn't extremely Democratic, but it's still much more Democratic than the national average, and that is enough to make it go Dem in a close election.

San Diego is a coastal urban area and it's very conservative.

A fascist like PD will not swing a state that if faced with the choice of a moderate liberal and a compassionate conservative.  If the GOP nominated a centrist and we nominated Migrendel, maybe it would happen, but not right ow it won't.

Pete Wilson was our governor in the 90's. He's very conservative.

Wasn't Nixon a moderate?

California in 2000:
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Bush had the widespread support geographically but Gore still won by 12%.

He wa a crook...I thought he was mostly someone who wanted to win and was pretty pragmatic.

May I point out that the counties of Sacramento, Yolo, and Santa Barbara are now conservative. Also, My county is Riverside, the long skinny one towards the bottom, (extends from Arizona to Orange County) and it's a dark blue! I'm so proud!

Do you think CA is going to go for Bush this year?

Yes, in three years those counties have gone 260 degrees from liberalism to conservatism.

Please, remember Arnold is a social liberal and is only economically a conservative.  Bustamante and Davis were socially to the right of Arnold.

I think so.

We're discussing whether it would go for Supersoulty or Nym90, but fine, change the topic if you want! :)

Bustamante is social all over. So was Davis, just not as bad as Bustamante.

I agree I feel based on our new govenor and on that map based on the counties Bush has a very good shot in Cali. which would be a death blow to the democrat running aginst him.

I personally think people (that's to say floating voters) voted for Arnie simply because, well, he's Arnie. His political affiliation was only a secondary factor... he could have been the Constitution Party's candidate for all they cared.

That said, I do have a feeling the Democrats will have problems holding CA if Dean is the nominee.

I don't see the Democrat losing california.

It would, by I still think that in a competitive election it wouldn't.

I do.

It may not be as likely as oh say Florida going to Bush but I'd say its likely and I do plan on working in the Bush campaign this year so I have a very biased reason to think Cali. might swing in Bush's favor.

I'm not saying that it is out of the world of possibility, but I don't think it will happen.

I still do.

We know.

Going 260 degrees means getting back again...why not say 80 degrees if that's what you mean? :)

I means 360 degrees.  be quiet.

Lol, OK... :)

Please...  Kentucky wouldn't go Democrat in a million years.  Granted, it went to Clinton, but times are different now and Dole was a weak candidate anyway.

Well, Kentucky was a toss, but if you take that away the election goes to the AFHouse of AFRepresentatives.

That would be interesting...if the elction is a tie, that's what happens right?

The candidates could draw lots. :)
Well, if that happened, I guess both could be president.

If PD, despite his far-right views, can swing Calif. to the GOP, I could certainly swing NC to the Dems.

I'd like to post a map, but I can't get this to work. If I right-click just outside the country's borders, the "Open Link in New Window" option is disabled. And if I right-click on a state, it just opens up the results of that state.

I think that I would have a better chance of winning West Virginia, Ohio, Florida, Missouri, or Oregon than I would have of winning Kentucky, Mississippi, or Tennessee. Also, no way that I'll lose California if I'm ahead by 7% nationally as I now am. I'd have to lose by 10 points before California would become a tossup.

I doubt it. It's unlikely that any Southern state would vote democratic.

How do you know that you're up 7%?

The same thing has been happening to me.

He's up 16-14 in the poll in the beginning of this thread. Two votes out of 30 is 6.67%.

Ah. I see. I thought maybe something had started that I didn't know about.

Or, alternatively, you could just get a Macintosh. ;)

I have changed my predictions again, creating the following map (now, let's see if it works...)

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As you can see, it shows the race ending in a tie, 269-269. That could very well happen. So who would the House elect? Obviously, Supersoulty has an advantage here. He beat Nym90 28-22 in states. But which way would congress end up? It isn't impossible that the Dems could get a majority here. There would also be some pressure to elect whoever won the popular vote, and that would be Nym90, I think.

I'm still gonna swing CA and NV.

Just like nclib will not swing NC, you will not swing CA. I am letting OR, NV and AZ go Rep, b/c I expect you to give Supersoulty an edge in that region.

Does this look wierd to anyone else?

Yes, to me! :)

The posts are smaller.  When we push it to another page it should be fine.

So we're doing this again, huh?

Yes we are.

Let me help a bit.

Do you actually know what I'm talking about? ;)

Just a bit more.

Little farther.

One more should do it.

And it did! :)

And you got your post number up as well! ;)

Yeah, it looks better now.  Thanks soulty.

No problem.  Just 48 til I'm a YaBB God. :)

htmldon, we could really use your vote in the general election.  Whay don't you register?

I know. Please register.

Voting on both sides has an element of fear. GOP voters fear socialized medicine, abortion up to birth (as Clark --and Dean and presumably others-- supports), the removal of all references to God on currency and the Pledge, tax rates from the Carter era, cowardice on the WOT, etc.  Fear keeps them voting GOP even if they don't agree with everything Bush does.  Dems use fear of a return to segregation, a police state, a theocracy, corporate control of government, etc. If Giuliani and Arnold and Romney and others moderate how voters view the GOP, then fear doesn't work so well.  Does that just work on the margins?  Maybe, but it makes a difference of some kind.  The GOP has political celebs it can send into any congressional district of the country.  I don't think the Dems really do.

I don't think it will happen. Still, it's odd to me that Bush can be up 3 points (41% support, but still a lead) in NJ, and similar leads in other solid Gore states.  I don't think that's a repeat of 2000 or 1992.

Whatever. I'm not gonna argue anymore about it.

I agree that people often vote for the person or party that they fear less.  I vote against the Democrats because I don't trust their handling of national security, among other things, and I do fear the results of giving the Democrats power.  I am also not in sympathy with many of the special interest groups who support the Democrats.

As far as the Republicans go, I'm not a strong social conservative, and I'm not a member of the Christian coalition, but I fear them quite a bit less than I fear many of the most prominent members of the Democratic coalition.

I don't understand this fear. By socializing medicine, completely legalizing abortion, and removing references to God only serves their interests. We are cushioning their economic existence, defending their physical autonomy, and fighting for religious freedom and government neutrality, respectively. Perhaps we shall have to wait until all these people have lain down and died before anything gets done.

I'll tell you why I don't support socialized medicine.  Reliance on government for an essential service almost always brings the level of service down to the lowest common denominator.  This is OK with garbage collection, but not education or medicine.  Education is highly localized, but in areas where the poor and middle class are intermingled, education has been brought down to the lowest conceivable level, and has not been allowed to rise above that.  The middle class (and the rich) must then pay for the service twice -- through their taxes and then for a private provider because the level of service provided by the government provider is unacceptable to them.

We can expect to see the same thing in medicine if it becomes socialized, only worse because it won't be as localized as education is.

It really is their problem that it's unacceptable to them. They should be grateful for a compassionate government, not constantly endeavoring to find fault.

Why the fuss about Socialism in healthcare?
We've had the NHS for 56 years and it's become political suicide to oppose it.
It works, so why not have it?
And private health care (which is terrible BTW) is legal as well.

Private healthcare is a lot better.

If you're rich...

Well... migrendel and I are rich. I use private healthcare, he probably doesn't.

Well, that's nice for you. And what if poor people die, they're just lazy, right?

I'm not gonna start with this with you. I have a speech to give at my convention.

OK, then. I am ready whenever you are... ;)

There really is not a good argument against universal health care if you are from the bottom 85% of the population.

But PD isn't. ;)

He is in the top 15%, so universal health care would probably marginally hurt him financially.

Hey, Nym90 and Supersoulty are tied in the poll! And they're 1 vote ahead in registered voters...

So get MAS to register, dammit!

I'm working on it...I thought Jtfdem would be enough, I hadn't counted on them getting 2 more votes... :(

Where is Rhode Rage? He voted in the primaries...

I don't know where he is.
Has Wakie registered?

No. Neither has English. They're all out there... :(

this isn't looking good.

You've still got till Thursday.

WE WILL MAKE THIS! :)

We're only one vote behind, we can still win this.

Hot damn! As of right now it is tied! This is gonna be one close election!

I only have one more!!! ;D

Yes! We're one ahead.

Dang I love these close elections ;D

Ta-DA!!! I'm am VERY GLAD to announce that I am now a YABB GOD!! The ONLY YABB GOD on ANY Presidential Ticket! That should boost up the Republicans in the polls. We are headed for victory!

Everyone hail your new YaBB God, after 2 months and a half at the forum, I finally got it!! YIPPIEEE!!!

cool good job.

Congratulations

Congrats.

Why did you take so long? ;)

Congratulations, Dan, feel any wiser? :)

For the first time we have Supersoulty ahead in the poll, but a tie in registered voters.

There are 17 people on each side who registered, btw.

Thanks to the liberal media...

Exercise your power with care.

()

He's probably calculating how much of his life he's spent posting and is in deep despair.

Dan Ratherisms for us to read in this nip-and-tuck race...

"Now Florida, that race, that race, the heat from it is hot enough to peel house paint." (7:05pm)

"Let's get one thing straight right from the get go. We would rather be last reporting returns than to be wrong. And again our record demonstrates true. If you hear somewhere else that somebody's carried a state, and you're awful as you shouldn't be watching them, then come back here because if we say somebody has carried a state, you can pretty much take it to the bank, book it, that that's true." (7:08pm)

"Bob [Schieffer], the polls have closed in Virginia. A Senate race there ugly enough, nasty enough to gag a buzzard." (7:12pm)

"It's believed to be extremely close in Pennsylvania. I'm prepared to say that they're playing what amounts to a sudden death overtime in Pennsylvania. It's that close." (8:03pm)

"I can hear some people at home saying, 'Whooh! If the electoral vote count is now what Dan Rather and CBS News says it is, 121 for Bush, 119 for Gore, it seems to me just a few minutes ago Bush had a long lead.' His lead has evaporated... uh, has melted, melted faster than ice cream in a microwave... what's happening here?" (8:10pm)

"Now remember Florida is the state where Jeb Bush, the brother of George Bush is the Governor, and you can bet that Governor Bush will be madder than a rained on rooster that his brother the Governor wasn't able to carry this state for him." (8:15pm)

"Alabama, the Jackhammer State, drops a hammer on Al Gore, goes for Bush as expected." (8:30pm)


"Bush has had a lead since the very start, but his lead is now shakier than cafeteria Jell-O." (8:30pm)

"Then in Tennessee, now Al Gore may be as cross as a snapping turtle about this Tennessee situation because it's his home state." (8:32pm)

"Mark this, this man [Corzine] spent an estimated $80 million, no you did not hear, $80 million. He spent money like he had shorted Microsoft and won this race." (8:35pm)

"Bush is sweeping through the South like a tornado through a trailer park." (8:37pm)

"Pennsylvania drops for Gore, 23 electoral votes, and for the first time tonight, mark it, if you're in the kitchen, Mabel, come back in the front room, 145 for Gore, 130 for Bush, 270 needed to win." (8:48pm)

"Now that will have the Bush people in Austin jumping out of their seats like they were stabbed with hat pins because if Bush should carry Florida, it's sayonara for Gore." (10:03pm)

"This much tension you can't cut with a saw. It requires a blow torch." (10:15pm)

"At any rate, one night they counted those absentee ballots, uh, until the cows literally had gone to sleep, and then came back the next day." (10:38pm)

"His chances are slim right now, and if he doesn't carry Florida, Slim will have left town." (10:43pm)

"This shows you how tight it is. It's spandex tight." (11:30pm)

"Now Governor George Bush, Karl Rove, and the others around him bragged, there's no other way to put it, all along on the campaign we will carry the home states of Al Gore and Bill Clinton. They've put up and they delivered. They put up. Now they can shut up because they've won the six electoral votes in Arkansas and eleven in Tennessee and can simply sit back and say, "Listen, we told you we were gonna do it and we did it.'" (11:54pm)

"The presidential race still hotter than a Laredo parking lot." (12:20am)

"I have to say, though, and I don't mean to be flip about it, that I think you are more likely to see a hippopotamus coming running through this room than you are to see Governor Bush appoint Nader to the Cabinet." (12:21am)

"Florida has just wobbled into Wierdsville." (3:00am)

"... if, italicized, underscored, put in caps, IF ..."
"Now Bob, you're probably the best one up here at mathematics, none of us are very good at arithmetic..."
"This is the dance of democracy."
"Now I don't usually give advice, but if your kids are asleep, get them in the room."
"That was not illegal, and by politicians' standards not even unfair..."
"Give the anchorman a box of candybars..."
"Don't count sheep."
"This is code blue for all candidates involved here."
"This is why this whole election swings, like one of those pendulum things..."
"If Bush hasn't gone to bed yet, and I think I know Bush well enough to say that he hasn't gone to bed yet..."
"Call the doctor, call the police, call a psychic..."
"The rest of us could be waiting in the desert for a little bit more."
"It's way past the witching hour in half of America."
"Al Gore's situation is his back is against the wall, his shirt tail's on fire and the bill collector's at the door."
"Hoooo boy, did they need the rain!" [Regarding Texas getting rain on election night after droughts]
"In Missouri, dead man walking."
"We have had dead people... err [chuckle], rather, people who have passed away elected to the House..."
"If Gore comes back now, it would have to be rated as one of the greatest comebacks since Lazarus."
"Under the creed, you trust your mother and cut the cards... I'm just gonna check again to make sure your right."
"There certainly won't be any killings over this one, but it can't get any closer."
"Bradley! Ed Bradley, an update in Oregon you have?"
"It's now down to one card cut now, isn't it."
"When we know who won Florida, then we can say, 'That's a wrap.'"
"We're gonna have to bring an expert in algebra in here if the arithmetic gets any more complicated!"
"When it comes to reporting a race like this, I'm a long distance runner and an all-day hunter..."
"George W. Bush, son of George Bush... Revenge is his, and revenge is sweet."
"You talk about a ding dong knock down setup..."
"Hook a U, head it back to the house, and let's get a recount goin' here."

"Quiet as the proverbial church mouse."
"He may as well be speaking Swahili or High Norse to me..."
"Stop to breathe his pony..."
"Little Rhody goes for Gore."
"As hot and squalid as a New York elevator in August."
"He's run through Dixie like a big wheel through a cotton field."
"For him to win it would be like scratching his ear with his elbow."
"It's cardiac arrest time in this presidential race."
"It's call 911 time."
"Snug hardly says it."
"This thing is so wild, wacky, and woolly."
"Adios, its been good seeing you... it ain't gonna happen."
"The hour of decision may be drawing near--underscoring may--and don't bet the trailer money on it yet."
"Closest race in the English language."
"If you are saying, 'Hello, what's this, Dan Rather?'"
"The Texans with their 10 gallon hats and their Willie Nelson headbands..."
"When the going gets weird, anchormen punt."
"Close only counts with hand grenades and horseshoes, so close may not be good enough."
"The polls have been veering and wobbling so much that neither NASA nor the Russian Cosmodrone can track them..."
"This race is so tight you couldn't get a cigarette paper between them."
"They're all running around like a squirrel in a cage..."
"If Gore loses Florida, that's it, it's over, no chance, goodbye."
"We said earlier in the evening at one point that Governor Bush would probably be as mad as a rained on rooster."
"They're smiling like cats in a creamery down in Austin."
"So there's where we are in the electoral college; for one reason it's a ding dong battle back and forth."
"You know the old saying: bad data in, bad data out."
"This is heart pumping twist on this rolly coaster ride."
"The presidential race is are crackling like a hickory fire."
"Governor, you didn't just tumble off the turnip truck."
"You can bet the rent money..."
"They are doing backflips in Nashville."
"It's tension city."
"Hold on to your drawers."
"Back here at CBS News' Accuracy Central..."
"If California is the big burrito and Texas is the big taco, then Florida is the big tamale....and right now, it's the only tamale that counts."
"Turn down the lights, the party just got started."
"The lights are going out for them."
"Votes only talk, everything else walks."
"Bush and Gore are closer than two pages in a book."
"As they say in opera, it's not really over until the heavy lady sings, but Bush hears her humming backstage."
"If... if a frog had sidepockets he'd carry a handgun."
"About as complicated as a wiring diagram for some dynamo."
"Well, the word 'goofy' comes to mind, but might be a little, might be a tad strong but I'm not so sure."
"Too early to say as the whiphand, but certainly things are shaded toward him."
"The Good Book says the race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but as a reporter you have to say, 'That's the way to bet it.'"
"I'm reminded of the sign in a west Texas saloon that said 'Don't shoot the piano player, he's doing the best job he can.'"
"Virginia goes to George Bush--that's whoopee news down in Texas."
"You've got time to put on another pot of coffee and pour it."
"Folks, this thing is getting really interesting."
"This race is the equivalent of hand-to-hand combat,"
"The flicker-tail state flicks for Bush." (North Dakota)
"Minnesota goes to Gore. What a heavy-weight match. What a fight!"
"It's a historic night. It's been a ding-dong battle any way you look at it."
"This is a knock 'em down, get up and come back kind of race."
"Sip it, savour it, cup it, underline it, mark it in red, press it in a book, hang it on the wall...George W. Bush is the new president of the United States."
"This is just a wild and woolly night."
"We don't know what to do here--wind a watch or bark at the moon!"
"And particularly this late in the morning, not everybody talks straight..."
"You'd have to say this thing is tight as the rusted lugnuts on a '55 Ford."
"The race is as hot and tight as a too small bathing suit on a too long ride back from the beach."

lol What was the point of all of this?

We can imagine Rather giving us the play-by-play on this other close election.

Oh okay.  That's halarious.  Good Job.

18-17 for GOP, dot he dems have a possible cross over voter?

Intersting question. We lead 18-17 in registered voters. The poll went up quite some time ago, it's possible that people voted in it and then didn't register. I put up the poll before you decided how to do the election.

I just want you to know, Gusaf, that I am still courting you.  I think that you belong with us, I really do.

Don't get your hopes up. I will focus on helping the Democratic party register as many voters as possible. We all want a high turnout, right? When the campaign kicks in, I will have a closer look at issues, and decide for whom I vote. I am rather centrist, but I am after all a party member... :)

Yeah...Gustaf's been trying to sway myself and htmldon to vote for red.

Have I? I think that's been MiamiU rather than me...htmldon hasn't even registered, so I definitely haven't been trying to sway him! :)

well bullmoose, you know we can be winners with ya too.  The GOP worked a little harder on its registration and anyone with the imbodiment of my favorite President TR is always more than welcome.

Welp, I'll be watching/reading the debates, though I can't say the recent remarks by certain members of the "red team" have helped their cause much.

But I'm near the fence...being the fickle Liberal Republican I am.

What remarks are you referring to? Just curious...

oh certain negative attacks that popped up say this afternoon.

Oh, the CM thread? Well, I don't think you should keep the party and its nominees responsible for remarks made by a, though respected, senator and party member who has no official position in the presidential campaign.  

Is this all there is to voting? Just vote in this poll?

No, this is only a poll.

chalk me up for the GOP ticket

even though the thing wouldn't let me vote.

I feel so disenfranchised.

Its ok bejkuy as long as you vote on Feb 20-22 int he real fantasy elections!

"real fantasy elections"...lol... :)

real fantasy elections--does sound a bit ironic doesn't it? :)

I think it's a contradiction in terms...what would fake fantasy elections be? :)

It's a fantasy election to elect a president of this forum. But voter regristration ended several days ago, so I'm afraid it's too late for you to particiapte.

Well for what it is worth, we are now tied.

I'm not sure if we are going to have a senate or not, but if we do, i'm sure you can run if you want.

It isn't worth much, believe me

No, the election hasn't bee held yet, we've done primaries and registration only. Today is the debate, and later there will be the actual election.

Today?  I thought it was tomorrow.

First Cristopher Michael was the front runner, but he dropped out b/c of health problems. Migrendel, the socialist, also ran, but never got that many votes. MiamiU, the party chairman, entered the race when Christopher Michael dropped out.

Yeah, it's tomorrow, my mistake.

About a dozen, I think it was.

I think the count was 6-4-2, with Nym90, MiamiU, Migrendel in that order. You could check it out, it should be in one of the primary threads here.