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Atlas Fantasy Elections => Atlas Fantasy Government => Topic started by: MasterJedi on June 04, 2006, 06:23:23 am



Title: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: MasterJedi on June 04, 2006, 06:23:23 am
Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill


Whereas, F.L. 9-13 "Farm Subsidies Abolition Act" did not abolish farm subsidies:
1. Sections I, II, IV, and V of the Farm Subsidies Abolition Act are repealed.
2. All farm subsidies are hereby abolished, effective from Fiscal Year 2007.
___________________________________________________________

Sponsor: Sen. MasterJedi


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 05, 2006, 07:16:25 am
What would be socio-economic impact on farmers and their families should this Bill pass and be signed into Law? Will they, by and large, stay in business or be thrown to the wolves?

If I can conclude that the gains more than offset the costs, I'll support this Bill. At the end of the day, farmers should be able to stand on their own two feet and not be reliant on government subsidies

'Hawk'


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 05, 2006, 02:35:06 pm
Read the debate from the original bill Dave.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Bono on June 05, 2006, 02:36:56 pm
Still waiting for the usual "ending farm subsidies would bring apocalypse" rant.
If y'all really want to contribute to end poverty in the third world, vote for this bill.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 05, 2006, 05:15:09 pm
If y'all really want to contribute to end poverty in the third world, vote for this bill.

I don't think agribusiness get much or any subsidies anymore Bono.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: jerusalemcar5 on June 05, 2006, 06:39:59 pm
Still waiting for the usual "ending farm subsidies would bring apocalypse" rant.
If y'all really want to contribute to end poverty in the third world, vote for this bill.

ENDING FARM SUBSIDIES WOULD BRING THE APOCALYPSE!  JESUS WILL ONLY SAVE SUPPORTERS OF FARM SUBSIDIES!


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 06, 2006, 10:55:22 am
Read the debate from the original bill Dave.

Indeed, I shall :)

'Hawk'


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 06, 2006, 10:57:27 am
Still waiting for the usual "ending farm subsidies would bring apocalypse" rant.
If y'all really want to contribute to end poverty in the third world, vote for this bill.

From that statement, Mr Secretary, I can only assume that federal government subsidies for Atlasian farmers must somehow contribute to poverty in the Third World. Is it your opinion or hard fact? How would this Bill if passed contribute towards ending poverty in the Third World, I'd be interested :) to know

'Hawk'


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Emsworth on June 06, 2006, 11:51:09 am
From that statement, Mr Secretary, I can only assume that federal government subsidies for Atlasian farmers must somehow contribute to poverty in the Third World.
That is correct.

Farmers need not fear that they will lose money in the market. The farm subsidy policy of the government essentially ensures that farmers will make a profit on whatever they produce. As a result, farmers tend not to restrict their production; they attempt to grow as many crops as possible. The supply of crops by far outstrips the demand for crops in Atlasia/the United States. The excess output, then, is dumped in "Third World" countries at extremely low prices--so low, in fact, that the local farmers cannot compete. Since the local farmers cannot compete, they remain in poverty.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: True Democrat on June 06, 2006, 03:31:26 pm
Wouldn't it be better to phase them out gradually?


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 06, 2006, 03:32:54 pm
Wouldn't it be better to phase them out gradually?

If you are going to get rid of them, yes. But read the thread on the bill this is trying to get rid of.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: True Democrat on June 06, 2006, 07:25:52 pm
Wouldn't it be better to phase them out gradually?

If you are going to get rid of them, yes. But read the thread on the bill this is trying to get rid of.

That's Clause One, look at Clause 2 of this bill.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Keystone Phil on June 07, 2006, 12:11:10 am
Wouldn't it be better to phase them out gradually?

If you are going to get rid of them, yes.

I'd actually prefer getting rid of these subsidies over time also. I don't support the idea of subsidies but we can't just end the programs in just one year. If my colleagues are open to the idea, I'd introduce an amendment phasing out the farm subsidies.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: MasterJedi on June 07, 2006, 05:54:18 am
Wouldn't it be better to phase them out gradually?

If you are going to get rid of them, yes.

I'd actually prefer getting rid of these subsidies over time also. I don't support the idea of subsidies but we can't just end the programs in just one year. If my colleagues are open to the idea, I'd introduce an amendment phasing out the farm subsidies.

That would be great Phil.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 07, 2006, 10:50:45 am
Now I'm of the belief that people should be self-reliant (hence, my past legislative efforts to diminish :) dependency on welfare). I think a phased gradual withdrawal of subsidies would be a fair compromise then something so sudden as the President has proposed

Of course, there are a range of options. Would it, for example, be by 10% over 10 years, 20% over five years or 25% over four years?

However, the effects of subsidy withdrawal could have a negative impact on the living standards of many farmers and their families. While I suspect many would be able to weather such fall-out in that subsidy cuts may just have a negligible impact, others may genuinely face hardship. So I would be favorable to a proportion of each phased cut being allocated to a Hardship Fund to help farmers with the transition from having subsidies to having no subsidies. Perhaps 25% of the proceeds from the cut, which could be used to provide transitional relief to those farmers and, indeed, farming communities worst affected

Naturally, we should be looking at ways to curb 'excessive' expenditure given theat we have more money going out than we have coming in but I really don't think we should be considering anything too radical that could have a potentially devastating impact on farming communities, which is why I favor the phased withdrawal of subsidies and provision of transitional relief

There is much to be said for doing things slowly and painlessly

Of course, in the long run, should a phased withdrawal of federal subsidies to Atlasian farmers have a positive impact on farmers in the Third World that too will be of benefit to both us and them. It encourages self-reliance on their part and reduces dependency on us whether through government aid or charitable giving

Furthermore, I think Atlasian farmers should be encouraged to rear goats :) because for Atlasia to contribute to assisiting Third World families by providing them with goats would be much more effective then handing over dollars to their corrupt rulers in the war on global poverty

'Hawk'


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Keystone Phil on June 07, 2006, 10:51:25 am
Amendment proposal (changes in bold italics):

Quote

Whereas, F.L. 9-13 "Farm Subsidies Abolition Act" did not abolish farm subsidies:
1. Sections I, II, IV, and V of the Farm Subsidies Abolition Act are repealed.
2. All farm subsidies are hereby abolished, effective from Fiscal Year 2010.



I think a four year notice for the repeal is a bit more appropriate. Our farmers will be thankful for this at least.  :)


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 07, 2006, 11:05:53 am
The thread in which the original bill was debated and modified is here: http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=29934.0

The final bill can be found here: http://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Farm_Subsidies_Abolition_Act

Please read both before debating things any further; this is another issue in which we've moved beyond the way things are in the real world.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: WMS on June 07, 2006, 02:52:32 pm
The thread in which the original bill was debated and modified is here: http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=29934.0

The final bill can be found here: http://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Farm_Subsidies_Abolition_Act

Please read both before debating things any further; this is another issue in which we've moved beyond the way things are in the real world.

After having read through the debate and the bill, I can say that I am satisified with things as they are currently in Atlasia and will not be voting for this bill. :)


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: MasterJedi on June 08, 2006, 01:59:38 pm
I hereby open up the vote on the amendment in bold and italics below. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.


Quote
Whereas, F.L. 9-13 "Farm Subsidies Abolition Act" did not abolish farm subsidies:
1. Sections I, II, IV, and V of the Farm Subsidies Abolition Act are repealed.
2. All farm subsidies are hereby abolished, effective from Fiscal Year 2010.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: MasterJedi on June 08, 2006, 01:59:59 pm
Aye


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: WMS on June 08, 2006, 02:11:53 pm
Aye on the amendment, but I'm still voting against this bill. :P


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Bono on June 08, 2006, 02:14:45 pm
From that statement, Mr Secretary, I can only assume that federal government subsidies for Atlasian farmers must somehow contribute to poverty in the Third World.
That is correct.

Farmers need not fear that they will lose money in the market. The farm subsidy policy of the government essentially ensures that farmers will make a profit on whatever they produce. As a result, farmers tend not to restrict their production; they attempt to grow as many crops as possible. The supply of crops by far outstrips the demand for crops in Atlasia/the United States. The excess output, then, is dumped in "Third World" countries at extremely low prices--so low, in fact, that the local farmers cannot compete. Since the local farmers cannot compete, they remain in poverty.

Exactly.
Plus, it also effectively closes the domestic market to foreign farmers, espeically those form the third world.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: ilikeverin on June 08, 2006, 03:03:43 pm
Yup


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Keystone Phil on June 08, 2006, 03:07:47 pm
Aye


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: ilikeverin on June 08, 2006, 03:19:05 pm
I think we should gear farm subsidies to keeping production within a certain quota, so that overproduction isn't as rampant as it is (or may be, perhaps when a GM is appointed s/he can tell us :)) now; it's certainly responsible for a good deal of the obesity-related health problems in Atlasia.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: WMS on June 08, 2006, 03:35:54 pm
I think we should gear farm subsidies to keeping production within a certain quota, so that overproduction isn't as rampant as it is (or may be, perhaps when a GM is appointed s/he can tell us :)) now; it's certainly responsible for a good deal of the obesity-related health problems in Atlasia.

;) Read the original bill discussion again - Atlasian farm policy is not currently the same as American farm policy.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: ilikeverin on June 08, 2006, 05:27:36 pm
I think we should gear farm subsidies to keeping production within a certain quota, so that overproduction isn't as rampant as it is (or may be, perhaps when a GM is appointed s/he can tell us :)) now; it's certainly responsible for a good deal of the obesity-related health problems in Atlasia.

;) Read the original bill discussion again - Atlasian farm policy is not currently the same as American farm policy.

Well, I know that we've eliminated subsidies to all but smaller farmers, but we don't have any information about whether they're still overproducing :P


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Bacon! 🔥 on June 08, 2006, 07:33:12 pm
Aye


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 09, 2006, 04:05:37 am
Well this is an improvement on the original Bill and for that I'll give the Senator credit; and, although, I think it could be improved further, I'll vote  Aye

I also need to give more thought to the points raised by Senator WMS as well the possibility of a further amendment more along the lines of my previous comments

'Hawk'



Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: MasterJedi on June 09, 2006, 06:06:45 am
This amendment has passed.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: WMS on June 09, 2006, 12:13:53 pm
I think we should gear farm subsidies to keeping production within a certain quota, so that overproduction isn't as rampant as it is (or may be, perhaps when a GM is appointed s/he can tell us :)) now; it's certainly responsible for a good deal of the obesity-related health problems in Atlasia.

;) Read the original bill discussion again - Atlasian farm policy is not currently the same as American farm policy.

Well, I know that we've eliminated subsidies to all but smaller farmers, but we don't have any information about whether they're still overproducing :P

With the agribusinesses out of the subsidy picture, I rather doubt it :P


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: MasterJedi on June 10, 2006, 09:59:07 am
I hereby open up the final vote on this bill. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.


Quote
Whereas, F.L. 9-13 "Farm Subsidies Abolition Act" did not abolish farm subsidies:
1. Sections I, II, IV, and V of the Farm Subsidies Abolition Act are repealed.
2. All farm subsidies are hereby abolished, effective from Fiscal Year 2010.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: MasterJedi on June 10, 2006, 09:59:24 am
Aye


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Keystone Phil on June 10, 2006, 10:30:03 am
Aye


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Bacon! 🔥 on June 10, 2006, 11:08:08 am
Aye


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 10, 2006, 12:26:52 pm
Unfortunately, I didn't have time :( to introduce a more comprehensive amendment, which would have proposed phased annual cuts in subsidies from FY 2007 to FY 2010 (possibly even beyond) with a proportion of these cuts/savings being allocated to Hardship Funds to assist those farmers and farming communities worst affected by the withdrawal of subsidies. Postponing any cuts at all until 2010 sees no the Treasury make no tangible savings whatsoever in the meantime

Therefore, I  abstain  on this Bill

'Hawk'


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: 🍁 Hatman on June 10, 2006, 05:03:20 pm
nay


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: WMS on June 11, 2006, 03:06:07 pm
Nay.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: ilikeverin on June 13, 2006, 10:04:20 pm
Nope


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: MasterJedi on June 14, 2006, 03:19:46 pm
Current Vote Tally Three days left to vote.

3 Aye (MasterJedi, Keystone Phil, Bacon King)
3 Nay (EarlAW, WMS, Ilikeverin)
1 Abstain (Dave Hawk)


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Speed of Sound on June 15, 2006, 03:45:18 pm
Nay


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: Gabu on June 16, 2006, 12:48:03 am
Nay.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: MasterJedi on June 16, 2006, 05:52:13 am
This bill has enough votes to fail. Senators now have 24 hours t ochange their votes.


Title: Re: Actual Farm Subsidies Abolition Bill
Post by: MasterJedi on June 17, 2006, 06:06:15 am
With 3 Ayes, 5 Nays and 1 Abstention this bill has failed.