Talk Elections

I have no idea what to make of this.  According to this article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/14/AR2006081400589.html

there's a 20 year old Webb volunteer of Indian descent who has been trailing Allen with a video camera, and Allen pointed him out at a campaign event, and refered to him as "macaca", though his name is S.R. Sidarth.  The Webb campaign claims that "macaca" is a racial slur:

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""I think he was doing it because he could and I was the person of color there and it was useful for him in inciting his audience," said Sidarth. "I was annoyed he would use my race in a political context."

Allen campaign manager Dick Wadhams said the Webb campaign's complaints about the comments are unfounded and he said Allen had "nothing to apologize for" to the young man.

Wadhams said Allen campaign staffers had begun calling Sidarth "mohawk" because of a haircut Wadhams said the Webb staffer has. "Macaca was just a variation of that," Wadhams said.

He said Allen's comment welcoming Sidarth "to America" was not an insult. "Welcome to the real world. Welcome to Virginia. That's all that was," Wadhams said.

Kristian Denny Todd, a Webb spokeswoman, said the campaign wants to know what Allen meant by Macaca.

"We would like Senator Allen to tell us exactly what he means by the comment," Todd said.

Depending on how you spell it, the name Allen gave Sidarth means different things.

If spelled M-a-c-a-c-a, the term refers to a species of monkeys in the Eastern Hemisphere. "Is he saying Sidarth is a monkey?" Todd asked.

The word M-a-k-a-k-a refers to a town in South Africa."
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According to this site:

http://listofethnicslurs.quickseek.com/#M

macaque is a French slur used to describe North Africans.  Allen speaks French, as his mother is French Tunisian, so it's plausible that that's how he was using the word.  Here is the video of Allen making the comments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G7gq7GQ71c

I don't think that George Allen is smart enough to know those terms.

I was at the Webb campaign office when I heard about this, so of course many of our minority campaign workers were outraged.  The person he called a "macaca" was S.R. Sidarth, a University of Virginia student who was videotaping Allen's statements for the Webb campaign.  It wasn't just the comment that Allen made that made this act in bad taste.  It was because he was speaking to an all-white audience in a backwoods town (Breaks, Va.) and purposely singled Sidarth out because of his minority status and ridiculed him for working with Webb.  He said, "Lets give a welcome to Macaca, here. Welcome to America and the real world of Virginia." 

The comment was totally uncalled for, and it also shows how much of an idiot George Allen can be at times.  Unfortunately, depending on how the media covers this incident, it's not likely to affect Allen's lead by much.

Watching the video makes Allen seem even worse. It's a shame that there are people who say these things as part of their normal conversation, as it appears Allen did, and audiences that don't seem to care.

Thanks for volunteering, bro. Webb is a helluva candidate. I like him a lot.

Virginia is a pretty racist state in general, so I doubt this is going to go anywhere.

Sooooooo, let me get this straight......

George Felix Allen, who was born and raised in California (and who probably has spent a lot more time around Hollywood than this kid Sidarth ever has)......tells this young man who was born and raised in Fairfax, Virginia "welcome to Virginia, welcome to the real world" simply because he is of Indian decent and therefore assumes he is not a Virginian?

Where does Felix think Sidarth was living before he saw him at his cute little KKK rally that day, the ing moon?

Here is the video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G7gq7GQ71c

Allen is such a goofball.  I used to think he'd be a good national candidate, but in reality, the guys doesnt stand a chance.  At least not after eight years of Dubya.

Webb is live blogging now at Kos.  Here is what he has to say regarding Allen's comments on the film.


lol, good stuff, Jim.

George Felix Allen Jr. is a joke, and I really like Jim Webb.

Allen wins 53-47, though.

ok.  let's dig up all of the intolerant things webb has written about women.

Jim Webb liveblogging on DailyKos tonight:

George's Macaca comments (72+ / 0-)

George was talking to a group of supporters in far Southwest Virginia when he made the comment to one of my campaign volunteers.  He also went into his usual banter about my being an inside-the-beltway guy who would never come down to SW Virginia, and that I was spending my time hanging out with a bunch of Hollywood liberals.  Stale stuff...

Actually, I make no apology for having done some business in the film world (I guess in his eyes that makes Ronald Reagan a Hollywood liberal).  And in truth, my dad's family came out of SW Virginia, and I still have many relatives living there.  I was going down to visit folks in SW Virginia when George Allen was still a Californian...

Re: his slur of my campaign volunteer, Mr. Allen will have to decide for himself what the proper course of action should be.



Me and California (34+ / 0-)
 
One of the principal strategies of the Allen campaign is to imply that I'm not "one of the folks" in VA, that I have lived in a world of "fiction, not fact," which is one of the things that Allen said before he insulted my campaign volunteer. 

I find this highly amusing, actually.  I'm portrayed as a "rich Hollywood producer," which causes rich Hollywood producers to have a good laugh.  I've worked for everything I've ever gotten in my life -- I began working when I was 12 years old, got scholarships to college, went to law school in the GI Bill, got a $5,000 advance on my first book, etc.  I have had the chance to work on films -- which half of the people in this country would love to have -- and I've had a ball doing it. 

But I've also spent a year in heavy combat, gone around the world as a journalist, including covering the Marines in Beirut and the war in Afghanistan, known what it's like to be unemployed, constantly taken risks in order to work on the things that inspired me.  I know the real world, George.  Holding political office for 25 years is not the real world.  In fact (having worked on Capitol Hill for four years), there are more fairy tales going on in Washington than there are in Hollywood.

His freedom fighting continues. Though nini is right of course.

Thank you for this insightful information.

And...Allen will still win this race, of course.

Well it is. Are you saying its not?

Umm...no, it's not. Have you ever even been to Virginia?

It seems it has gotten a lot of coverage.  Hannity and Colmes is showing the clip.  I think George Allen is stupid, racist, hateful and incompetent to serve in the US Senate - he deserves to lose for this remark alone and its sad that what many suspect is true; racism hasn't really gone away in America.

Do you know what other politicians are saying behind minority groups backs? No, neither do I, so I wouldn't go off just condemning one man for an insult (against a UVA student of all things :P). How many of those rich folks either Republican or Democrat want to deal with lowly blacks, blue collar whites are any group they aren't "as good as them"?

I also love how the same people to call Allen an idiot (I will admit there are smarter Senators) think he is smart enough to know some racial reference that almost no one knows.

This is why you should be a socialist, worker.

Those are the worst kind!

What can you possibly mean?  He insulted him and I think if Allen or anyone else in his campaign or on the right apologised then it would just be so much better.  No, I don't know what politicians are saying I admit - but I would hope that they don't say this and at least I know they don't in public.  Allen has a long history of shady possibly racist associations.  Welcome to Virginia!  He's hardly from the Cradle of the Confederacy is he, he was born in Whittier, California for God's sake!

Allen did apologize:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/14/AR2006081400589.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/14/AR2006081400589.html)

It's not a really big deal in my opinion.

Well I think its a big deal and I don't like how people like Sean Hannity and Republican posters on the forum are trying to dismiss it as some kind of novelty and as Democrats making a fuss.

Cute.  Very cute.

Sorry, but whether he was behaving like a bullying six-year-old and using words he didn't understand or was actually intending a racial slur, there's just no way that this was anything but deeply pathetic.

^^^^^^

I think he meant to be racist and showing off at the same time - you know, using a word nobody would recognize. Possibly hoping to get away with it on that account as well.

I'm a big Allen fan (as you all know), but I agree.  This was one of the times where Allen got carried away with the moment and said something stupid.  I doubt it will have a lasting impact on anything though.  He'll wear his public "Dunce" cap for a week and it will most likely be forgotten by the end of the month.

Lol, he sounds like a child.

Or like that Italian player who claimed he didn't know what a terrorist was.

Not a big deal. A stupid comment based on the idea that he felt shadowed and that he apologized for. Time to move on. Unless one wants to grasp at straws, of course, because their candidate is losing. And a person can do that, fine, that's politics. But to say something like this makes him "not qualified" is the bitterest partisanship of bitter partisanship. Come on. And if that's the case, okay, whatever you are doing, whoever you are, as soon as an insensitive thought or comment or something flashes through your head, you're not qualified to be doing whatever you're doing because chances are you are interacting with people on a daily basis. Because that's how I read the partisans' reaction to this - it's not the comment itself as much as the principle that allegedly behind it.

I'm sorry States, but I find that statement to be ridiculous.  I believe that some, repeat some, minority-rights groups go too far (especially whenever any African American groups praise Black Panther and Malcolm X-style rhetoric), but that doesn't mean that rich politicians (like Allen) don't want to deal with them. 

Furthermore, I don't see how your argument is valid since you included "blue collar whites" as a group that rich politicians don't want to deal with.  When Allen made these remarks, he was in Breaks, Va., a small town literally tucked away in the mountains by the Kentucky border.  The small group of Virginians that Allen was speaking to was decidedly working class and white.  In fact, this area of Virginia has been hit hardest economically in recent decades.  It really makes no sense why these people would possibly support Allen, even if you take the gun issue into account, since Webb is an ardent advocate of 2nd Amendment rights.  But I'll leave that to those voters to decide.

And come on, let's leave the UVA-VPI football rivalry out of this.

Thank you, and I agree fully that Webb is a fantastic candidate for Virginia.  Unfortunately, Allen has nearly twelve times as much cash on hand.  I'm hoping this incident will snowball (it was on the front page of the Washington Post and Richmond Times-Dispatch) so maybe Webb can get a chance to pull up with his opponent. 

An interesting sidenote is that here in the Webb campaign it's become popular to bring out George Allen's hitherto little-known middle name.  Almost every public announcement or campaign message refers to Webb's opponent as George Felix Allen.

What does the term "macaca" actually mean? A shady definition like "a french ethnic slur" isn't good enough for me.

It's a Belgian/French ethnic slur for people of dark-skinned North African descent.  Allen probably heard the word from his mother, who is an immigrant from French colonial Tunisia (she is of French descent).  What's funny is that Sidarth (I've actually met this guy) isn't even North African at all, but Indian instead.

This is George Allen's "George Romney moment," a stupid comment that ruins a Republican Presidential contender's chances.

From listening to the news, that might be the version of the word used.  Appearantly there is another word spelled differently which sounds the same as macaca (which I haven't found yet) as well.  While Allen probably didn't know the word he was saying (since it is a word his staff used to describe "the kid"), he shouldn't have said it none-the-less.

Speaking of "the kid," it is a bit funny how the Webb campaign spokesperson came to the defense of Sidarth.  She said "The kid has a name . . . [this] is trying to demean him, to minimize him as a person."  LINK (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2003199386_allen15.html)  I don't think she did Sidarth any favors with that comment.  :P  Of course, Sidarth didn't do himself any with "I was the only person of color there, and it was useful for him in inciting his audience." (Also the same link.)  Welcome to politics.

Well at least this will help Webb break out the non-white vote that went for Miller so heavily in the Democratic primary.

Allen is now tanking at Tradesports in the 2008 presidential contest.  Just in the last 24 hours, he's dropped from a 16% to a 12% chance of getting the GOP nomination, taking him from second place to fourth place (now behind McCain, Giuliani, and Romney).  Webb is also on the upswing in the 2006 VA Senate race, though of course Allen is still heavily favored in that.

I'm embarassed I ever voted for this dimwit in the first place.  :P

Why did you?

This pretty much kills Allen's presidential chances, considering his other baggage.  Leno and Letterman would have a field day with him.

Ok, but I still don't know what it means. It seems to be as fairly harmless as  the term "cracker".

I was watching his comment and then found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAeOZ7WCyiA

That´s funny :)

I believe it literally means Monkey - you know, like Howard Cosell's "look at that monkey run". But it can be used similar to the word "niger" in french.

It was a dumb thing to say. A friend of mine inside the Allen campaign said George really didn't know what the words meaning was, he just picked it up from some of his staff that did, that used it to refer to the young man. Using slang terms one doesn't understand in public really isn't that bright, most notably for somebody in politics. The whole "welcome to America" thing was all George though, and that has it's own context and insinuations, and when added to the slur makes George seem fairly racist on the surface.

I wonder if I should replay my quote from a few months ago about George Allen having no chance in the Presidential primaries.  :)

Not like this will really do anything to him in the Senate race, depending on much the media pump it up and how much he allows them to pump it up.

Anyway, a lol moment, definitely.

Thank you for giving me the definition. :) Probably a dumb thing to say in public when you really don't understand the word, but IMHO people are way to hypersensitive these days anyhow.

Oh yes, it was much better when they had to grin and bear it, or get lynched from a tree.

While I think the whole PC thing has gone way too far. I also think that if I were standing in a crowd of black people, listening to a black Senator, and was singled out and called a term that was slang for white trash or something to that effect that I would be less than pleased. I imagine you would be less than pleased as well if you were in that situation. So, from that perspective I think Allen deserves some bad PR and a rough couple of news cycles.

Like I said it was a dumb thing for him to do. And Allen's follow up about mowhawks and the like have been pretty lame and make him look fairly dishonest.

Six years ago I was a Republican, and a moderately conservative one at that. 

It's not that this means he's a terrible Senator.  However, this is the kind of behaviour that sends up a red flag for me.  Someone in a position of power can't have a disposition like this.  What he was doing, plain and simple, was singling out the person in the room who disagreed with the majority and making fun of him like a schoolyard bully.  A less than competent one, but still.

He's harmless, but he knows that he had the crowd behind him.  It's not a quality I find particularly attractive in a human being.

Someone over at Kos is reporting that tomorrow's Ras poll will have Webb within five points, and Allen below 50 percent.

If this is true, it's huge. This race may have become truly competitive for the first time.

Yeah, Kos is definately an accurate source. lol

Well, this is hardly novel, Alcon.  It is certainly in the nature of most elected leaders, and of democracy itself.  And it is the typical behavior of racists throughout american politics - even if they do not single out a particular present individual, they appeal to the prejudices and hatreds of the majority by attacking the scapegoated minority.

Actually, it is. Certain members have campaign sources (this particular heads-up was from a Webb staffer), and Kos accurately reported a number of Connecticut polls before they were released to the public.

It's no more of an accurate source than the Atlas is when it comes to "insider" information.  Sorry.

It's accurate. Rasmussen just released the poll. Allen leads 47-42.

As someone who is of Indian Descent, I say that Allen is an idiot and that the Democrats should start funding Webb. This could be our sixth seat.

Indeed.  Here's the link:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2006/State%20Polls/August%202006/virginiaSenate.htm

I'm watching Tradesports to see what happens to the odds on Allen in both the Senate and Presidential race.  The initial "macaca" fallout caused him to drop from 16.0 to 12.0 in the presidential race, but he then rebounded to 13.5.  So far today, he's dropped to 13.0, but that could just be a blip.  I wonder if there's going to be an Allen sell-off, following this poll.

As Boris noted, it was just released and it was the same margin reported on Kos. Thanks for playing.

Um, sorry, but yes it is. As Rob has already pointed out, Kos regularly (I can't even count how many times I've seen this happen) posts the results of new polls before they are even up on the pollsters' own websites. Many staffers will tip the site off to their own internal polls before they are released and the major nonpartisan polls also do the same. It's a fact.

I would never trust the DailyKommunist for any accurate information.

I'm sure people in such deep denial are not their target audience.

I hope he crashes and burns. Granted the Repiblicans need a moderate in '08; but if it has to be a conservative let's keep that idiotic dirtbag Allen far, far away from any realistic shot at it.

Charles Krauthammer (sp?) had said on yesterday's 'Inside Washington' that this incident, while not necessarilly imperilling the likelihood of his winning re-election as Virginia's senator, has torpedoed his chances at becoming the next GOP presidential nominee for the 2008 elections.  Would you -as a Republican- agree with him that Allen now pretty much has no chance in 2008? 

Other Republicans on this forum are free to answer this question as well...

What's wrong with Allen?

From a personal standpoint I was high on Allen as the GOP nominee in 2008, however he just has not impressed me these past few months. It definitely seems like he is lacking a little bit in the intelligence department. Anyway, I wouldn't say this incident alone "torpedoes" his chances of becoming the nominee, but his stock is definitely on the down slope.

Agreed.  People always tend to inflate the long term importance of the latest controversy.  Yes, the "macaca" tape could be damaging, but so could the tape of Bush not knowing the names of world leaders.  He managed to overcome that.  What could save Allen is the fact that "macaca" isn't exactly a well known racial slur.  Even though the fact that Allen speaks French seems to be a strong indication that he knew what he was doing, that's not necessarily going to be clear to the average voter.  If he had used the n word, it would be a different story.

You also have to ask how many '08 primary voters are even going to see this video?  In what forum would they be watching it?  I don't know that any of his '08 GOP rivals would go so far as to include it in a negative campaign ad.  And the media usually doesn't spend too much time on stuff like this unless the candidates themselves are talking about it.

Well, if the latest Rasmussen poll is any indication, then this incident is great news for the Webb campaign.  After Labor Day, expect to see the race get much closer as Webb barnstorms the state.  He'll be in Norfolk later this month, and then the Eastern Shore before hitting a few stops in Richmond and Fredericksburg in September.  Hopefully the DSCC will realize the error of their ways and start pumping money into this race.  More than any other state, Virginia has the chance to become the Democrats' sixth Senate pickup.

Ahh, &#%*#%**#!!!!!