Talk Elections

I know little of British politics, so this is something I've always wondered. In the US, Blacks are overwhelmingly Democratic, Hispanics tend to be Demoratic, Asians lean Democratic etc.

Is it the same in the UK? Do blacks lean labour on average? Or is race a non-issue in terms of voting in the UK?

Blacks usually vote solidly Labour

How many blacks actually live in England? I can't imagine it being a very high number.

IIRC it's about 2-4% of the total population. It's much, much higher in some areas of course (ie: Brixton)
The largest ethnic minority is Asian (ie: from Indian Subcontinent). About 7% IIRC.

Thanks. :) Didn't think it was all that high. Not much of a impact on elections, huh?

It varies. In some seats with large ethnic minority populations (Bradford West for example) racial and sectarian factors dominate politics (the Labour M.P is a Sikh. Muslims do not vote for Sikhs. So the Tories stand a Muslim every election).
Overall Asians have a bigger impact than Blacks

Do blacks or asians hold any seats?

At least one, I was watching a black woman make some comments toward Blair when he meets with the House of Commons and they show it on C-Span.

Some guy from the Scottish National Party was decrying Blair for "being on his knees" in regards to America, but Tony quickly refuted him saying something about the man's usual lack of good judgement, and said that an alliance with the United States is very important, etc -- always entertaining.

I think it's about 15-30 (out of over 650). Not sure about the exact numbers though.

Here are a few notable MPs from ethnic minorities in the UK…

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David Lamey. Junior Minister in the Blair Government and Labour MP.

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Parmjit Dhanda. Another rising star within the Labour Party

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Oona King. Part of the King Family (MLKjr I mean) and again a rising star.

The Labour Party has had and still has a large number of MPs who are from ethnic minorities and has traditionally benefited from the support of these groups and while by and large they remain loyal there is increasing political diversity within these communities.

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Adam Afriyie, a candidate for the rock solid conservative seat of Windsor, an articulate guy (in that regard he reminds me very much of Harold Ford) who may very well be quickly promoted when he’s elected (and in Windsor he will almost certainly get elected if he’s got “Conservative” next to his name :D ). He would also be the first Black Conservative MP.

Labour have high profile blacks in their cabinet, including Paul Boeteng and the promising David Lammy. Many are attracted to the Christian Socialist values in the Labour Party, and the fact that the Conservatives were not very welcoming (Enoch Powell..cough) The religious/racial voting in many northern cities by Muslims is frankly disturbing, especially as the Liberal Democrats are more traditionally left wing socially. Catholics like myself tend to vote Labour, especially in Scotland due to Labour's support of Catholic schools and because of Labours social stance. The majority of younger Catholics tend to socially liberal rather than conservative. Minority voting tends to affect inner city areas and Labour has been able to hold the vote in racially diverse areas, black, white and asian because of combined strong support in most minorities. With Muslims drifting to the Lib Dems due to purely religious and anti-war reasons (if they actually read the Lib Dems manifesto they would no doubt think twice) it seems this pattern is beginning to change.

Remember what happend in Cheltenham in 1992?

What about Sebastian Coe?

I thought he was white

It's strange...I could swear that I'd read years ago he was the first coloured Tory MP. But judging from what photos Google throws up, you're obviously right.
So, I retract my objection.

Actually Afriyie isn't a sure winner... remember what happend in Cheltenham in 1992?  

No.
That's an LD constituency, is all I know.
But let me guess: The Tories put up a Black or Asian candidate and lost in a seat considered safe?

At the 2001 elections, the Greens crossed 5% in one bradford constituency - where the Green candidate was the only White candidate.

Yep.
The losing Tory is now a Peer (Lord Taylor of... can't remember exactly... damn Peerage names...)
What makes Afriyie's situation worse is that Windsor is right next to the LibDems no.1 South East target (Maidenhead)... and that they control the local council.


That'ed be Bradford West... the Labour M.P is a Sikh, so naturally the Tories run a Muslim every election...
I think the BNP has a few councillers in the constituancy.

Isn't there a black cabinet member? I seem to recall one being appointed by Blair, the first black cabinet minister ever.

Paul Boeteng (sp?)

That is the one! Boateng I would assume, that is how it is normally spelt I think.

This may sound presumptious, but I would assume that most minorities and indigeonous peoples would vote for a left leaning party.

I know this is at least true in

UK - Labour
Austrailia - Australian Labour Party
NZ - New Zealand Labour Party
US - Democrats

Add Germany.

What about Canada?

First Nations go either Liberal or NDP
Chinese go Liberal

And the Netherlands. PvdA and GroenLinks are the most popular parties for minorities.

The highest concentrations of black people in the UK are in inner city Manchester (Moss Side), inner city Birmingham (Ladywood, Aston) & south London (Tulse Hill, Peckham, Brixton). There are also small pockets in Leeds (Chapeltown), Liverpool (Toxteth), Nottingham (Hyson Green), Bristol (St Pauls) and Leicester. Overall ethnic minorities make up about 5% of England's population though in some inner city areas of Birmingham & London they're a clear majority. Brent South for instance is about 56% non-white and Leicester is the most multi-cultural city in Europe. The number of ethnic minorities in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland is tiny, about 1% or less. Vote wise Blacks are overwhelmingly Labour, probably 80%+. Asians usually back Labour, however not when the candidate is from a different religion. Labour nearly lost Bradford West (an iron clad Labour seat) in 1997 because the Labour candidate was Sikh and 30% of the population are muslim. Rather cynically the Tories fielded a muslim candidate!!

Not in Calgary, I reckon... I'd figure South Asians in Canada lean liberal, but don't seem to be a Vote bank the Libs could count on...the same is true for the Dems in the US, but o/c the South Asian percentage of the vote is way higher in Canada, so it  matters there.

Does Calgary count? :D
South Asians lean liberal, but are prone to toryward swings (see some of the Ontario provincial results in the '90's)

so are there any countries were most of the minorities vote for a right or center-leaning party?

Other than South Africa's white minority :)

I've never met a brit who was black. I must admit the British accent would throw me off for sure. :)

Whites in most Latin American countries. Although I'm not sure they count...
Also, my Germany statement deserves some qualification:
German citizenship law has these absurd exemptions for people of ethnic German origin, making it very easy for them to come here and get citizenship immediately. In practice, this means (mostly) people from Russia or Poland. These groups tend to vote Conservative, though not overwhelmingly.

A first or second generation Black Brit is more likely to have a Jamaican or West African accent than a British one.

Jamaican accents are cool :)

I shan't disagree.

I'm having an American moment, because I can't help but think if only for a second that any time somebody says "blacks," they're racist.  That's never said here except by insensitive or offensive people, Southerners, or some black people (other racial minorities as well).  Most people I've heard talk about it tactfully (of any race) say "black people" or African- Americans.  I prefer black people since I don't say caucasion or European-American, I say white people, the symmetry makes sense.  But African-American is the most common term.  Anytime somebody says "blacks" I cringe, I expect them to talk about the Jews and how the Holocaust was fake.



Anyway, as to the voting habits of African descendants, I know they voted overwhelmingly, in this country, for Republicans for several decades.  The Republicans were then very much what a Euro socialist would call a bourgeois party, focused on markets and trade, "free labor" (euphemism for working in a free market) and generally what one would consider a capitalist business haven.  The black voters of Virginia post Reconstruction organized into the Readjuster Party (which met with much success and white Republican support, winning the state legislature and electing Reps and 2 Senators) and try as they might to separate themselves from both parties, they were fighting the dixiecratic Democrats in VA, and after a few years the Radjusters lined up with the GOP in Congress.

When Wilson ran for President, black people voted in large numbers.  Ironic, since Wilson was born in the South and was actually fairly wishy washy both on civil rights (most people of the time were anyway) and the actual civil war itself.  He was the President that popularized the change in terms from Great Rebellion (the Northern Yankee term for the Southern treason) to calling it the Civil War (which makes it seem sort of mutually to blame).  For a few decades black people went from 90% Republican to closer of an even split, with the urban black people voting Democrats along with all the other immigrants, migrants and workers and the rest mostly voting GOP.  The switch was more or less complete after FDR and then in the 1960s when Dixiecrats invaded the GOP.

But for a while there black people were soldily in line with a very laissez faire, right-liberal party against a populist, left-liberal party.



Second piece of evidence:  Rasmussen did a 2001 poll basically quizzing respondents on the World's Smallest Political Quiz.  Racially, black people got the most libertarian score with 21% scoring libertarian compared to 16% for the country as a whole.  They also scored the least number of left-liberals of all races, at 9%.  This would suggest that either they vote party or race before ideology, or they think the Democrats are the more libertarian party.  I'd tend to guess it's an identity issue, just like there are still some Southerners who refuse to vote GOP because their great great grandfathers fought for the Confederacy.


Anyway, interesting subject.

And for other minorities - in 2000 Muslims went over 80% for Bush in this country.  What a weird statistic.  Wonder how much they regret that now.

Really? Why is there a difference between saying "Blacks" or "black people"? That sounds kind absurd...

Well one, "blacks" is simply through comon usage a little frowned on because so many Dixiecrats and KKK types would say it with such scorn.

But also because it sounds like such a definitive final description, as though being black is the complete sum of a person.  This is fueled by the fact that nobody says the n-word any more except in off-color jokes and rap music, so there's a whole rescaling of all racial words.  Really, most politicians won't even say black people, they say African-American.  It gets a little absurd, like when somebody talks about the "African-American" leader of like Cameroon or something.  But Americans have a strong hatred and distaste for racists, and even innocent comments (saying the phrase black sheep or the word ndly, neither of which are related to black people) can attract serious wrath.

Remember Rush Limbaugh was forced to resign as a football commentator?  Trent Lott was forced to resign as leader over the Strom Thurmond thing?  Tons of other people get serious criticism in the media for saying anything racist or even smelling of racism.  It gets crazy at times, but it's motivated by our strong reaction against the racists of the past.

a) You know this kind of rescaling only happens if people still assume that the thing described is somehow inferior?
b) Do you also say American people rather than Americans?
c) Yeah, to proscribe a word (nd) just because it sounds a bit like another word is absurd.

I'm not claiming that using euphemisms for Blacks makes you a racist.
Rather, that by inventing such euphemisms you recognize racism and racist users as still societally relevant.
Thought this clarification might be necessary...

I think Bush 41 won the overall asian vote in 1992.

Filipinos in my area are Republican, because most are descended from Filipino natives that joined the US Navy when the Phillipines was a territory. Plus a good number are religious.

And, um, a lot of people say "blacks." Just like they say "whites" or "guys" or "football players." It's the plural of "black." Curiously, "white people" is considered anti-black by the PC police, because it identifies whites as a legitimate group, rather than a catagory.

Only politically correct wimps say "African-American."