Talk Elections

Election Archive => 2008 Elections => Topic started by: Reaganfan on February 11, 2007, 05:31:02 PM



Title: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Reaganfan on February 11, 2007, 05:31:02 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/11/australia.obama.ap/index.html


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Verily on February 11, 2007, 05:35:12 PM
The Coalition is going to lose reelection badly later this year. What John Howard says hardly matters.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on February 11, 2007, 05:38:32 PM
I'm sure so many Americans actually care what Howard says.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on February 11, 2007, 06:05:55 PM
John Howard is a racist who used race-baiting to get himself re-elected a few years ago.

The Coalition is going to lose reelection badly later this year. What John Howard says hardly matters.

Be careful; the buggers always bounce back just before polling day. Hopefully this will be fourth time unlucky but...


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: skybridge on February 11, 2007, 06:12:13 PM
Foreign opinion so matters in American elections...


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Tetro Kornbluth on February 11, 2007, 06:17:12 PM
Well if Howard hates Obama then my opinion of Obama has gone up quite a bit..


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Michael Z on February 11, 2007, 06:21:04 PM
For now ignoring the fact that Howard is not exactly someone whose opinion I value, if this thread illustrates anything it's that Obama has conservatives running so scared they're willing to use ANY excuse to start anti-Obama threads like this one. Seriously, we've had the Biden thing, we've had the race thing, the smoking thing, but nothing really substantial, just a bunch of slurs and personal attacks, his detractors lashing out wildly in the vain hope that anything will stick.

Coming up next! The Estonian Minister for Agriculture thinks Obama has a funny name.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: JSojourner on February 11, 2007, 06:29:53 PM
Howard is risking the lives and limbs of how many Australian troops in Iraq? And that compares with our sacrifice?

If he believes in the mission so much, let Australia take over the whole damn shooting match.  (We'll cheerfully replace their peacekeepers in East Timor with a few hundred Marines.)

Otherwise, Howard can shut his pie-hole.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Rob on February 11, 2007, 06:32:29 PM
Republicans have scorned world opinion and insulted our allies for the entire Bush Presidency... and now that they've found a foreign leader crazy enough to support them, they're shouting it from the rooftops. Pathetic.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Michael Z on February 11, 2007, 06:34:49 PM
Republicans have scorned world opinion and insulted our allies for the entire Bush Presidency... and now that they've found a foreign leader crazy enough to support them, they're shouting it from the rooftops. Pathetic.

Very true. But then Republicans don't want allies, they want lapdogs.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on February 11, 2007, 06:38:29 PM
Republicans have scorned world opinion and insulted our allies for the entire Bush Presidency... and now that they've found a foreign leader crazy enough to support them, they're shouting it from the rooftops. Pathetic.

Howard isn't crazy. He's a complete bastard and verges on being a fascist at times, but he's not crazy.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: TheresNoMoney on February 11, 2007, 06:47:10 PM
Right-wingers around the world are terrified of an Obama candidacy!


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on February 11, 2007, 06:49:33 PM
What an ass. Osama most likely prefers the Republicans to be in charge - Iraq has been a great recruiting tool for Al Qaeda, but the Democrats are too civil to mention this.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: TheresNoMoney on February 11, 2007, 06:50:55 PM
PM Howard is such a supporter of the Iraq War that he has sent a whopping 1,400 Australian troops to help the US! What a hero! What a hypocrite!


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: JSojourner on February 11, 2007, 06:53:57 PM
PM Howard is such a supporter of the Iraq War that he has sent a whopping 1,400 Australian troops to help the US! What a hero! What a hypocrite!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on February 11, 2007, 06:54:49 PM
PM Howard is such a supporter of the Iraq War that he has sent a whopping 1,400 Australian troops to help the US! What a hero! What a hypocrite!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, at least Bush sent a real quantity of cannon fodder into Iraq to die for his lies. Howard is a total joke.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Reaganfan on February 11, 2007, 06:58:39 PM
PM Howard is such a supporter of the Iraq War that he has sent a whopping 1,400 Australian troops to help the US! What a hero! What a hypocrite!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, at least Bush sent a real quantity of cannon fodder into Iraq to die for his lies. Howard is a total joke.

Lies? You're crazy.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on February 11, 2007, 07:00:27 PM
PM Howard is such a supporter of the Iraq War that he has sent a whopping 1,400 Australian troops to help the US! What a hero! What a hypocrite!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, at least Bush sent a real quantity of cannon fodder into Iraq to die for his lies. Howard is a total joke.

Lies? You're crazy.

LOL


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Deano963 on February 11, 2007, 07:00:35 PM
Personally, I just found it amazing when I first read this story earlier today that the Prime Minister of Australia would go so out of his way to say such things about Barack Obama in particular and Democrats in general. What an ass. He sounded like he is the twin of Dick Cheney reading his asinine comments. Just the fact that a foreign leader would involve himself in our internal debate over the Iraq War and go after Obama in particular, when most politicians and the vast majority of Americans probably agree with Obama's position.

Why did he just go after Obama when so many other politicians share his same goal and put forth similar legislation to Obama's? The whole story just struck me as odd......and disgusting of course, given how incredibly stupid Howard's words were.

I mean, can anyone here imagine the President of the United States criticizing some obscure foreign politician (say a member of Parliamnet in Britain) who is not the head of state - let alone criticizing that politician's entire party?!

Regardless of how one feels about Iraq or Obama, this was a very inappropriate action on Howard's part, IMO.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on February 11, 2007, 07:00:55 PM

Bush has a 72% disapproval rating on Iraq for a reason.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Yates on February 11, 2007, 07:01:07 PM
Say goodbye to your political career, Mr. Obama.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Tetro Kornbluth on February 11, 2007, 07:04:22 PM
PM Howard is such a supporter of the Iraq War that he has sent a whopping 1,400 Australian troops to help the US! What a hero! What a hypocrite!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, at least Bush sent a real quantity of cannon fodder into Iraq to die for his lies. Howard is a total joke.

Lies? You're crazy.

???

Hilarious, Naso, Purely Hilarious.

It's probably crazier now to think they didn't lie - To quote then Sec. of State Colin Powell in Feb 2001:

"He [Saddam Hussein] has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours"


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on February 11, 2007, 07:31:25 PM
PM Howard is such a supporter of the Iraq War that he has sent a whopping 1,400 Australian troops to help the US! What a hero! What a hypocrite!

I will say... for the size of our military that's a lot.

I mean, can anyone here imagine the President of the United States criticizing some obscure foreign politician (say a member of Parliamnet in Britain) who is not the head of state - let alone criticizing that politician's entire party?!

The president did publicy warn against Australia voting for Labor at the last election - as they wanted to withdraw from Iraq.

This is really surprising to me, Howard is usually so astute in his public comments. Howard should get grilled at question time.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Deano963 on February 11, 2007, 07:53:41 PM
I mean, can anyone here imagine the President of the United States criticizing some obscure foreign politician (say a member of Parliamnet in Britain) who is not the head of state - let alone criticizing that politician's entire party?!

The president did publicy warn against Australia voting for Labor at the last election - as they wanted to withdraw from Iraq.


Really? I never heard of that happening. It's not surprising though. Well, obviously I don't think Bush has any place telling a foreign country's people who to elect or even who he thinks they should elect any more than I think Howard does. Hopefully you guys throw Howard out this year.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on February 12, 2007, 12:47:45 AM
Well I am in Canberra and went to question time.

The Opposition leader did not let up on Howard and moved a censure motion on the PM.

Labor is WAY ahead in the polls ATM, but history had shown that in both cases of the 2001 and 2004 election, the coaltion was way down early in the year, but they always seemed to manage to crawl back.

I'm happy, but it's too far out to get excited about.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Gabu on February 12, 2007, 01:25:42 AM
OMGLOL HOW MANEY ELECTORAL VOETS DOES AUSTRALIEA HAVE!?!?/11/1/


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Rob on February 12, 2007, 05:10:39 AM
I will say... for the size of our military that's a lot.

Yes, that's a silly objection. Australia is one of the few countries actually helping the US with troops over there, so you guys have earned the right to say anything you want about our war policy.

And Bush meddled in Australian politics? Not surprising at all, and it's just another reason to want him gone forever.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Michael Z on February 12, 2007, 06:11:49 AM
I quite liked Obama's response (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6352785.stm) to this:

"I think it's flattering that one of George Bush's allies on the other side of the world started attacking me the day after I announced.

"I would also note that we have close to 140,000 troops on the ground now, and my understanding is Mr Howard has deployed 1,400, so if he is (ready) to fight the good fight in Iraq, I would suggest that he calls up another 20,000 Australians and sends them to Iraq."


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: skybridge on February 12, 2007, 06:16:44 AM
I quite liked Obama's response (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6352785.stm) to this:

"I think it's flattering that one of George Bush's allies on the other side of the world started attacking me the day after I announced.

"I would also note that we have close to 140,000 troops on the ground now, and my understanding is Mr Howard has deployed 1,400, so if he is (ready) to fight the good fight in Iraq, I would suggest that he calls up another 20,000 Australians and sends them to Iraq."

Brilliant :)


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Silent Hunter on February 12, 2007, 07:22:50 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Defence_Force

Australia has about 70,000 soldiers.

Howard's entitled to his opinion. Probably shouldn't have aired it though.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: P.J. McDuff on February 12, 2007, 07:33:48 AM
Well if Howard hates Obama then my opinion of Obama has gone up quite a bit..

Word.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on February 12, 2007, 08:05:00 AM
I'm sure so many Americans actually care what Howard says.

Right, except most liberals care what France, the UN, Germany, etc. say about the war when it fits their needs


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: P.J. McDuff on February 12, 2007, 08:20:26 AM
Has someone been reading Anne Coulter?


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Deano963 on February 12, 2007, 01:30:51 PM
Has someone been reading Anne Coulter?

Reading? LOL. Duff, you give him too much credit. He probably saw her on the O'Liely Factor last night.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on February 12, 2007, 01:54:09 PM
Has someone been reading Anne Coulter?

Reading? LOL. Duff, you give him too much credit. He probably saw her on the O'Liely Factor last night.

She was on?  Damn how'd I miss that


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on February 12, 2007, 03:49:27 PM
While I think this is all a tempest in a teacup that won't affect the election much, I do think Obama did come out the better of this.  It definitely established him a credible enough contender that a foreign leader took a potshot at him, and he came up with a good response, tho the 20,000 figure was a bit over specific.  A simple, "If he thinks Iraq needs more troops, why doesn't he send more Australian troops?" would have sufficed.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: The Dowager Mod on February 13, 2007, 12:02:26 AM
Douchebag.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: minionofmidas on February 13, 2007, 04:10:04 AM
Obama is culturally sort of an Indonesian. Howard is an Australian Rightwinger. Nuff said.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: ag on February 13, 2007, 09:07:25 AM
Obama is culturally sort of an Indonesian. Howard is an Australian Rightwinger. Nuff said.

Actually, best comment so far. This should be on the international forum, not here. It's actually quite interesting - within the context of Australian politics. It's irrelevant, as far as US politics is concerned.

Remember, Australia is a country that had a long history of institutionalized racism, and had it for a reason. This sort of a comment is very astute: even most "urbane" Australians would take it for an odd-ball foreign policy shot of little significance. But the target audience of "mates and blokes" would get it right. Howard has been a virtuoso using racist inuendo throughout his long career in politics, while remaining within confines of respectability. This is just another occasion to marvel the artistry of the old SOB.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: RRB on February 13, 2007, 10:25:03 AM
Purhaps our friend from Australia can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Liberal party of Australia (that's right, "liberal" in Australia means liberal economics, let corporation and business do whatever they please)of which Howard in PM used to subscribe to the "White Australia" policies of the past (and present).

Also, a good example of right wing media bias in the US is that Obama's response that Australia should send 21,000 troops was not mentioned on CBS news.  We heard all about Howard's remarks, but that was it.  Nothing about Obama's response.  How convenient for the right wing owners of CBS to have such a thing "left off"  the report.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Keystone Phil on February 13, 2007, 10:30:29 AM
PM Howard is such a supporter of the Iraq War that he has sent a whopping 1,400 Australian troops to help the US! What a hero! What a hypocrite!

I love how people don't give a damn about the lives put in danger, helping us in a war when it isn't a large amount. I'm glad to see that you don't care about their sacrifice, hack.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: agcatter on February 13, 2007, 10:54:40 AM
What's the big deal?  Kerry's sister went thru Australia slamming Howard's policies and talking up the Liberals during the last Australian elections in 04.  I'd say if European politicians can badmouth American voters for electing Republicans, Howard can do the same toward American libs.  What the hell is the difference?  There isn't any.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Verily on February 13, 2007, 12:33:10 PM
PM Howard is such a supporter of the Iraq War that he has sent a whopping 1,400 Australian troops to help the US! What a hero! What a hypocrite!

I love how people don't give a damn about the lives put in danger, helping us in a war when it isn't a large amount. I'm glad to see that you don't care about their sacrifice, hack.

Well, Howard has two choices. He can either convince his country that Australia should be contributing as much as the US is, or he can stop complaining that the US, which is losing much more than Australia by being involved, wants out. Any other statement is the ultimate hypocrisy.

The attack is on Howard, not on whatever poor souls he's shipped off to Iraq. Nice straw man, though.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Deano963 on February 13, 2007, 02:58:36 PM
PM Howard is such a supporter of the Iraq War that he has sent a whopping 1,400 Australian troops to help the US! What a hero! What a hypocrite!

I love how people don't give a damn about the lives put in danger, helping us in a war when it isn't a large amount. I'm glad to see that you don't care about their sacrifice, hack.

I must have missed the part where Scoonie belittled and mocked the Australian soldiers themselves and not PM Howard.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Deano963 on February 13, 2007, 10:43:03 PM
From MyDD:

Labor opposition leader Kevin Rudd is ahead even before Howard's latest idiocy:

In the latest ACNielsen poll published Monday in Fairfax newspapers, 48 percent of respondents named Rudd as their preferred prime minister, compared with 43 percent for Howard. Five percent were undecided. The national telephone survey of 1,412 voters was conducted Feb. 8-10 before Howard's comments on Obama and had a margin of error of 2.6 percentage points.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2868323&page=1

No worries, Howard ;).


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Keystone Phil on February 14, 2007, 12:06:37 PM
PM Howard is such a supporter of the Iraq War that he has sent a whopping 1,400 Australian troops to help the US! What a hero! What a hypocrite!

I love how people don't give a damn about the lives put in danger, helping us in a war when it isn't a large amount. I'm glad to see that you don't care about their sacrifice, hack.

I must have missed the part where Scoonie belittled and mocked the Australian soldiers themselves and not PM Howard.

Then you need a lesson in reading between the lines. Note how many people mock the fact that low amounts of troops are sent from certain countries, as if them being there means nothing.

PM Howard is such a supporter of the Iraq War that he has sent a whopping 1,400 Australian troops to help the US! What a hero! What a hypocrite!

I love how people don't give a damn about the lives put in danger, helping us in a war when it isn't a large amount. I'm glad to see that you don't care about their sacrifice, hack.

Well, Howard has two choices. He can either convince his country that Australia should be contributing as much as the US is, or he can stop complaining that the US, which is losing much more than Australia by being involved, wants out. Any other statement is the ultimate hypocrisy.

The attack is on Howard, not on whatever poor souls he's shipped off to Iraq. Nice straw man, though.

Uh, no, this isn't "staw man." This argument is about how a great number of people laugh at the fact that some countries didn't send massive amounts of troops, equating their sacrifice of troops to a field trip to the region.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on February 14, 2007, 08:47:33 PM
Purhaps our friend from Australia can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Liberal party of Australia (that's right, "liberal" in Australia means liberal economics, let corporation and business do whatever they please)of which Howard in PM used to subscribe to the "White Australia" policies of the past (and present).
 

The reason the Liberal (the capital L is extremely important) Party was created in 1944 was to allow more economic freedoms, basically meant to be a counter of the union created Labor party. There really wasn't a massive social divide, the Labor Party was old-school Catholic and the Liberals were usually anglican or presbyterian.

As time moved on however, the free-market Liberal Party also tended to attract social conservatives as the Labor Party in the late 60s and into the 70s moved socially left.

Then in the 1980s the Labor Party fell under the spell of Thatcherite economics.

John Howard USED to be a socially "small c" conservative and economic liberal. However he has become a social Conservative and economic reactionary.

Having said that there are many Liberals who are called wet libs, or are true liberals, they like economic and social freedom, but most rarely get heard or supress their real views to keep in step the mainstream of the party. John Howard did attempt in the 1987 election to develop a policy which would restrict Asian immigration (and people didn't go for it). I don't think the majority of Australians are racist, I think there is a sick undercurrent of it, largely from a certain degree of cultural isolation which comes from our geographic position.

FYI - This is a big story here, and the overwhelming current of policy opinion is firmly against Howard. Most feel he has the right to comment on a policy which does affect our troops (I didn't appreciate the mocking tone of one poster). I heard someone on the radio say "Why is Howard starting to get this moral absolutist tone like Bush... remember Johnnie, we don't like Bush".


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Deano963 on February 14, 2007, 10:01:03 PM
PM Howard is such a supporter of the Iraq War that he has sent a whopping 1,400 Australian troops to help the US! What a hero! What a hypocrite!

I love how people don't give a damn about the lives put in danger, helping us in a war when it isn't a large amount. I'm glad to see that you don't care about their sacrifice, hack.

I must have missed the part where Scoonie belittled and mocked the Australian soldiers themselves and not PM Howard.

Then you need a lesson in reading between the lines.

No....you need a lesson in how to just plain read if you think Scoonie was attacking the Australian troops themselves.



Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Keystone Phil on February 14, 2007, 11:10:00 PM
PM Howard is such a supporter of the Iraq War that he has sent a whopping 1,400 Australian troops to help the US! What a hero! What a hypocrite!

I love how people don't give a damn about the lives put in danger, helping us in a war when it isn't a large amount. I'm glad to see that you don't care about their sacrifice, hack.

I must have missed the part where Scoonie belittled and mocked the Australian soldiers themselves and not PM Howard.

Then you need a lesson in reading between the lines.

No....you need a lesson in how to just plain read if you think Scoonie was attacking the Australian troops themselves.



It is clear that people that make that argument make a joke out the amount of troops sent, basically laughing off the idea that smaller sizes of service men and women don't make much of a difference. Think about that next time you laugh at El Salvador or whatever country sending a few hundred of their nation's finest. They didn't need to send a single body to help us fight. They didn't have to risk a single life yet we insist on mocking them.

John Howard or any other world leader deserves our thanks whether they send 1,500 or 15,000 or even 15 soldiers.


Title: Re: Australian Prime Minister slams Obama
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on February 15, 2007, 07:05:53 PM
My personal issue isn't that Howard commented at all about Iraq, since we do have troops there. It was the blindly partisan attack on Obama and the Democrats as the "Terrorist's Preferred Party".

Howard and Bush whilst talking about Iraq sound like coaches of a team that 20 points down 5 minutes before the final whistle and is talking about what to do during extra time.