Talk Elections

General Politics => Political Debate => Topic started by: raggage on July 22, 2004, 06:57:35 AM



Title: Drinking Age
Post by: raggage on July 22, 2004, 06:57:35 AM
I'd be interested to know your opinions on this. I think we've had a thread on this before, but I could't find it.

From my background, option 4 is for me. Not only would that be incredibly stupid to lower, in my opinion it would be a huge factor in an increasing road toll.

In my wife's homeland for example - the drinking age is 18, like in Mexico. The police there are having huge problems with drunken youths aged 14-17 who are able to procure alchohol from their 18 year old friends.

Not that this doesn't happen to some extent in the U.S, but a move like this would worsen it... Agree?


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Lunar on July 22, 2004, 09:03:29 AM
States decide, and I would vote to lower it to 18 in my state.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: 7,052,770 on July 22, 2004, 09:09:16 AM
when you're an adult, you're an adult and should be able to buy alcohol.  Lower it to 18 nationally.  It shouldn't be 18 to do everything else but 21 for alcohol.  Lower the gambling age to 18 also.  But have a very stiff penalty for driving drunk, or doing anything under the influence.  Perhaps better alcohol and drug education in schools.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: ?????????? on July 22, 2004, 09:09:23 AM
If you are old enough to vote and to serve and possibly die for your country then you should be allowed to drink.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: 7,052,770 on July 22, 2004, 09:11:12 AM
If you are old enough to vote and to serve and possibly die for your country then you should be allowed to drink.
exactly


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: JohnFKennedy on July 22, 2004, 09:13:24 AM
If you are old enough to vote and to serve and possibly die for your country then you should be allowed to drink.
exactly

^^

It is 18 here in the UK.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Lunar on July 22, 2004, 09:14:57 AM

Does the UK have different ages for different types of alcohol?  I know in Germany it's 16 for beer and 18 for hard liquor.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: JohnFKennedy on July 22, 2004, 09:24:33 AM

Does the UK have different ages for different types of alcohol?  I know in Germany it's 16 for beer and 18 for hard liquor.

Nope, 18 across the board.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: © tweed on July 22, 2004, 11:03:39 AM
I favor lowering the drinking age to 18.

I heard that in Denmark you can buy alcohol at 16 but can't drink it until you're 18.  I may have it backwards, but I heard that somewhere.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Keystone Phil on July 22, 2004, 11:07:47 AM
No it should not be lowered. I believe NJ lowered it to 18 years old a few years ago and it failed, miserably. NJ's drinking age is now back at 21 years old.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Wakie on July 22, 2004, 11:16:21 AM
There should be one age of adulthood.  One age at which you can smoke, drink, vote, and serve in the military.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Bono on July 22, 2004, 11:39:01 AM
Here in Portugal it's 16.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: JohnFKennedy on July 22, 2004, 11:40:05 AM
No it should not be lowered. I believe NJ lowered it to 18 years old a few years ago and it failed, miserably. NJ's drinking age is now back at 21 years old.

So say a nineteen year old can fight for his country, die for his country fighting in an unfamiliar land in a war he may not want to be in, but cannot enjoy an alcoholic beverage?


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Keystone Phil on July 22, 2004, 11:42:42 AM
No it should not be lowered. I believe NJ lowered it to 18 years old a few years ago and it failed, miserably. NJ's drinking age is now back at 21 years old.

So say a nineteen year old can fight for his country, die for his country fighting in an unfamiliar land in a war he may not want to be in, but cannot enjoy an alcoholic beverage?

Like I said before, NJ lowered it to 18 and it was a complete failure. Now it is back to 21. Enough said.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: © tweed on July 22, 2004, 11:49:32 AM
Keystone Phil,

You think it should be legal for 18-year-olds to fight in a war, but illegal for them to drink?


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: English on July 22, 2004, 11:50:37 AM

Does the UK have different ages for different types of alcohol?  I know in Germany it's 16 for beer and 18 for hard liquor.

Nope, 18 across the board.

Actually I think you're incorrect. 18 is the legal age at which you can buy alcohol for yourself, but you can drink it in a restaurant or at home from age 14. In pratice the laws in the UK are extremely lax. I used to drink in bars when I was 16.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on July 22, 2004, 12:00:17 PM
Make it 19. That for the most part keeps it out of the high schools and solves the problems of 14-17 year olds getting it. It's not like 19 and 20 year olds have any problem at all getting alcohol now.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: MarkDel on July 22, 2004, 12:29:43 PM
Of course it should be lowered to 18, though it should be handled on a state by state basis.

When I grew up in New York the drinking age was 18 and the world didn't exactly fall apart. In fact, I remember the move to 19 and eventually 21, and all that did was create a "forbidden fruit" nature to alcohol which led to MORE drinking among the people in my generation.

If a person can go to war and get shot at, or appear in a porno movie, or vote at age 18, why in the HELL should they have to wait until they are 21 to have a drink???

I have a funny story about that too. When I was 25, I started dating this girl who I met when she gave me a lapdance at one of my friends' bachelor parties. She was gorgeous and a really hot dancer, but on our first formal "date" I accidentally put her in an embarassing situation. After dinner I take her to this bar and she gets proofed, but she's only 19 so she can't get in the freakin' bar!!! And that struck me as incredibly ridiculous....that this girl could be engaging in an adult job like STRIPPER but was considered a non-adult when it came to drinking...that's ludicrous!


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: JohnFKennedy on July 22, 2004, 12:53:22 PM

Does the UK have different ages for different types of alcohol?  I know in Germany it's 16 for beer and 18 for hard liquor.

Nope, 18 across the board.

Actually I think you're incorrect. 18 is the legal age at which you can buy alcohol for yourself, but you can drink it in a restaurant or at home from age 14. In pratice the laws in the UK are extremely lax. I used to drink in bars when I was 16.

That is what I meant, 18 is the age for buying alcohol. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

At 14 you can drink a glass of wine in a restaurant with a meal, but I think it may be only with an adult.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on July 22, 2004, 01:10:55 PM
No it should not be lowered. I believe NJ lowered it to 18 years old a few years ago and it failed, miserably. NJ's drinking age is now back at 21 years old.

Not sure about New Jersey, but I do know that in many states the age was raised to 21 from 18 or 19 soley because the federal government threatened to withhold federal funds from states that did not do what the federal government wanted.

The feds did the same thing with DUI laws. The feds forced the states to accept a very low definition of DUI.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: MarkDel on July 22, 2004, 01:27:58 PM
No it should not be lowered. I believe NJ lowered it to 18 years old a few years ago and it failed, miserably. NJ's drinking age is now back at 21 years old.

Not sure about New Jersey, but I do know that in many states the age was raised to 21 from 18 or 19 soley because the federal government threatened to withhold federal funds from states that did not do what the federal government wanted.

The feds did the same thing with DUI laws. The feds forced the states to accept a very low definition of DUI.

Carl,

That is correct. They actually withheld Federal Highway Improvement Funds...gotta love those Democratic Congresses back in the 1980's!!!!


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Schmitz in 1972 on July 22, 2004, 01:34:46 PM
I don't like the idea of an age limit for alcohol whether it be 14, 16, 18, 21, or 36! I think the government should trust Americans to make the proper decisions regarding the substance.  I also think that common Americans do have enough sense to make these judgements. True, some people will always be alcoholics, but as a free nation with personal accountability we must not have the government trying to control someones' problems that their own bad judgement created.

P.S.  I also don't like having a voting age and driving age. There are plenty of underage teenagers mature enough to vote, there are plenty of kids over sixteen not mature enough to drive. Having one age doesn't work.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Gustaf on July 22, 2004, 01:36:20 PM
I favor lowering the drinking age to 18.

I heard that in Denmark you can buy alcohol at 16 but can't drink it until you're 18.  I may have it backwards, but I heard that somewhere.

That sounds like Swedish law...but the other way around. You can drink at 18, but IIRC you're allowed to buy at 20.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: JohnFKennedy on July 22, 2004, 02:13:30 PM
In France the legal age for purchasing alcohol is 16 and in Spain I believe it is 14.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Gustaf on July 22, 2004, 02:40:59 PM
I don't like the idea of an age limit for alcohol whether it be 14, 16, 18, 21, or 36! I think the government should trust Americans to make the proper decisions regarding the substance.  I also think that common Americans do have enough sense to make these judgements. True, some people will always be alcoholics, but as a free nation with personal accountability we must not have the government trying to control someones' problems that their own bad judgement created.

P.S.  I also don't like having a voting age and driving age. There are plenty of underage teenagers mature enough to vote, there are plenty of kids over sixteen not mature enough to drive. Having one age doesn't work.

So 5-year olds should be allowed to vote? They'll probably all form their own opinions... :P ;)


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: classical liberal on July 22, 2004, 02:46:53 PM
Rather than having an age limit, there should be a test to judge capability.  To vote, one should have to pass a civics exam akin to the naturalization exam.  I could have passed the exam at age 14 and become a vote back then.  Along the same lines, I know 30 year olds who really shouldn't be allowed to vote due to their ignorance.  The driver's test should be the only restriction on driving.  If a 14 year old can drive and their legal guardian permits it, that person should be allowed to drive.  Whereas if a person is 70 but can't drive properly then that person should not be allowed to drive.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Rules for me, but not for thee on July 22, 2004, 02:50:35 PM
The whole reason we have a 21 drinking age is all the commie moms in this country got together and complained to Washington to raise the age from 18 to "save lives".   Like George Carlin, I believe we are saving way too many people in this country and life is inherently dangerous.

So Washington bent to the constant nagging, and if states didn't raise the age, the Feds were going to cut funding for the roads.  So eventually, they all gave in.  

What needs to happen is the state need to learn to function without any help from the FedGov and fight back the tide of increasing centralism in our country.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Dave from Michigan on July 22, 2004, 02:53:31 PM
lower it,  I'm sick of driving to Canada


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: bejkuy on July 22, 2004, 04:28:11 PM
It's been a few years since I was in the Army and I never had any interest in alcohol,  but my recollection is that 18 year-olds ARE allowed to drink on millitary bases.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Fmr. Gov. NickG on July 22, 2004, 04:33:03 PM

I think it should be 19, like most of Canada.  

You should be able to drink in college, but not in high school...mostly because 18 year old high school students tend to drive a lot more than college students.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on July 22, 2004, 05:07:08 PM
The federal 21 drinking age must be abolished, because it's pretty clear it doesn't do any good. In fact, it encourages people under 21 to drink.

You know America is the ONLY[/i] developed nation where it's as high as 21?


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: opebo on July 22, 2004, 05:14:08 PM
18 is too old. I voted for state by state.  I really don't think there should be any law on this issue.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: muon2 on July 22, 2004, 05:49:07 PM
one problem is that it is technically still a state decision. However, the federal government tied access to highway funds to states with a minimum age of 21. The linkage survived court challenges at the time, and no state could afford its highway system without federal assistance. Thus, we have a national standard dictated by federal control of the highway trust fund.

I've spoken to some of my German friends on this issue. We discovered an important difference. The US makes access to driving much easier than do the Germans. They also felt that teen drinking and driving is a problem, but they feel that it is better to restrict the driving than the drinking.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: muon2 on July 22, 2004, 06:07:19 PM
one problem is that it is technically still a state decision. However, the federal government tied access to highway funds to states with a minimum age of 21. The linkage survived court challenges at the time, and no state could afford its highway system without federal assistance. Thus, we have a national standard dictated by federal control of the highway trust fund.


Then it REALLY is NOT a state decision, is it?
I'm not in favor of the way the federal government passed down this mandate. But the method was clever since it allowed the circumvention of state control over alcohol, which otherwise is untouchable with the 21st amendment.

The state decision is whether to set their own minimum drinking age, or to augment their road funds with federal money. Needless to say, every state that was not at 21 opted for the latter.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Brambila on July 22, 2004, 06:21:20 PM
I really don't think there should be a drinking age limit... all should be able to drink. Likewise, Marijuana should be legalized...


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on July 22, 2004, 06:38:17 PM
It's been a few years since I was in the Army and I never had any interest in alcohol,  but my recollection is that 18 year-olds ARE allowed to drink on millitary bases.

that's what a kid my freshmen year on my floor who was in the Army told me.

Like I said though, it's pointless. Anyone on a college campus can get alcohol. But since I wasn't driving anyway, there was no problems.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on July 22, 2004, 06:49:34 PM
oh yeah if you want some irony my former RA is getting me alcohol now.

It was her job to catch me if I had any when I was in the dorms (which she never did) and now she's giving it to me! ha ha.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: raggage on July 22, 2004, 07:30:29 PM
I can't believe you all think it should be lowered. When you are assigned to respond to a drink driving accident when a drunk 17 year old killed himself and 4 other people, and you have to notify the parents I think you'll change your mind.

Case and point. 18 year olds are NOT mature enough for alcohol.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: YRABNNRM on July 22, 2004, 07:36:28 PM
If you are old enough to vote and to serve and possibly die for your country then you should be allowed to drink.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Lunar on July 22, 2004, 07:49:33 PM
Anyone have statistics from various countries relating to drunk driving?


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Brambila on July 22, 2004, 08:09:10 PM
In Europe there's no drinking limit, and they're doing fine.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: dazzleman on July 22, 2004, 08:52:14 PM
I would support an 18-year-old drinking age, but I think the states should decide.

In general, I think that if you're old enough to vote, serve in the military, get married and commit to legal contracts, you should be old enough to have a drink.

I understand that many young people abuse alcohol, but I think that the older drinking age makes it even more attractive.  Also, plenty of older people also abuse alcohol.

All we are doing now is criminalizing something that just about everybody does.  I don't know anybody who didn't drink years before they turned 21.  Sneaking around and doing it illegally, with the danger of getting caught, only makes it more fun.

Some states, particularly in the south, punish underage drinking fairly severely considering the insignificant nature of the offense.  It's a waste of time, and it never stopped anybody from drinking.  I know guys who got busted for underage drinking and had to do community service and attend alcohol classes early on Saturday mornings for weeks.  They always bragged about how they went to the classes hung over.

I say raise the drinking age, but punish dangerous behavior like drunk driving.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Fmr. Gov. NickG on July 22, 2004, 08:52:19 PM
In Europe there's no drinking limit, and they're doing fine.

This is certainly not true.  I don't know of any European country that has NO legal age for purchasing alcohol.  In most countries it is 16 or 18.  


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on July 22, 2004, 08:58:00 PM
I had a teacher who visited Germany, and he said the McDonald's restaurants there serve big mugs of beer to little kids.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Brambila on July 22, 2004, 09:01:18 PM
Then it must be an ignored law, since I just got back from a vacation full of Italians and several of them said there's no law on alcohol consumption. I really don't think it's the government's buisness to regulate that though.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on July 22, 2004, 09:02:42 PM
I can't believe you all think it should be lowered. When you are assigned to respond to a drink driving accident when a drunk 17 year old killed himself and 4 other people, and you have to notify the parents I think you'll change your mind.

Case and point. 18 year olds are NOT mature enough for alcohol.

I have never driven any night after I have been drinking, and that includes when I was 18. So what did I do wrong?

Usually when I go to parties I'll walk to the party, and call a taxi or get a ride from someone else if I can't walk back. I'll probably still do that in 4 months when I'm 21.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: raggage on July 22, 2004, 10:08:38 PM
I can't believe you all think it should be lowered. When you are assigned to respond to a drink driving accident when a drunk 17 year old killed himself and 4 other people, and you have to notify the parents I think you'll change your mind.

Case and point. 18 year olds are NOT mature enough for alcohol.

I have never driven any night after I have been drinking, and that includes when I was 18. So what did I do wrong?

Usually when I go to parties I'll walk to the party, and call a taxi or get a ride from someone else if I can't walk back. I'll probably still do that in 4 months when I'm 21.

Well congratulations, honestly and sincerly. But most 18 year olds as traffic records will indicate do not display this level of maturity, at least not over the whole age group. In the eyes of someone in career law-enforcement, it would be a terrible idea.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Fmr. Gov. NickG on July 22, 2004, 10:15:54 PM
Then it must be an ignored law, since I just got back from a vacation full of Italians and several of them said there's no law on alcohol consumption. I really don't think it's the government's buisness to regulate that though.

The age for buying and consumer beer in Germany and Italy is 16...although it is true it is probably routinely ignored.

I can see it both ways in terms of teenagers, but certainly the government has duty to regulate the actions of CHILDREN.  Can an eight year old really make an informed choice about whether to drink alcohol or not?  You can say it is the parents' responsibility, but what if the child is an orphan or has irresponsible parents?


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck on July 22, 2004, 10:19:42 PM
Make it one age for everything.  Vote, drink, gamble, etc. all at 17.  Why?  I'm 16, and I think I can handle all of those things, and I have before.  But I also know some real stupid 16 year olds that I would not go near if they had a beer in their hand.  So.....17 sounds right to me.  


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on July 22, 2004, 10:20:36 PM
I know some stupid 30-year-olds who I wouldn't go near with a beer in their hand.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: MarkDel on July 22, 2004, 10:23:49 PM
I can't believe you all think it should be lowered. When you are assigned to respond to a drink driving accident when a drunk 17 year old killed himself and 4 other people, and you have to notify the parents I think you'll change your mind.

Case and point. 18 year olds are NOT mature enough for alcohol.

Raggage,

You've been a cop too long...think about it...they are not mature enough to drink, but they are mature enough to vote for the people who make the rules on who is mature enough to drink...think about it...


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on July 22, 2004, 10:31:14 PM
On the Fourth of July, a young woman who was 19 crashed her car into a stone wall on my street. If I had been riding my bike down the roadway at the time, she could have very easily killed me.

The cops arrested her for DUI.

I would bet that this incident wouldn't have occurred at all if not for the 21 drinking age. The driver of the car probably felt encouraged to drink just because it was illegal for her to do so.

If I had been injured, I would have sued the driver of the car as well as MADD for helping to get the 21 drinking age passed.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Brambila on July 22, 2004, 10:39:57 PM
Then it must be an ignored law, since I just got back from a vacation full of Italians and several of them said there's no law on alcohol consumption. I really don't think it's the government's buisness to regulate that though.

The age for buying and consumer beer in Germany and Italy is 16...although it is true it is probably routinely ignored.

I can see it both ways in terms of teenagers, but certainly the government has duty to regulate the actions of CHILDREN.  Can an eight year old really make an informed choice about whether to drink alcohol or not?  You can say it is the parents' responsibility, but what if the child is an orphan or has irresponsible parents?

That's none of the government's buisness. If the parents are irresponsible, too bad. That's not the government's job. Many parents raise their children badly, and they group up with psychological problems. Not the government's fault. The government shouldn't regulate how parents should act.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Fmr. Gov. NickG on July 22, 2004, 10:39:59 PM
Make it one age for everything.  Vote, drink, gamble, etc. all at 17.  Why?  I'm 16, and I think I can handle all of those things, and I have before.  But I also know some real stupid 16 year olds that I would not go near if they had a beer in their hand.  So.....17 sounds right to me.  

I actually think it is kind of important that the drinking age and the driving age are different.  I don't really think it matters which comes first, just that they don't happen at the same time.  


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on July 22, 2004, 11:54:57 PM
No it should not be lowered. I believe NJ lowered it to 18 years old a few years ago and it failed, miserably. NJ's drinking age is now back at 21 years old.

Not sure about New Jersey, but I do know that in many states the age was raised to 21 from 18 or 19 soley because the federal government threatened to withhold federal funds from states that did not do what the federal government wanted.

The feds did the same thing with DUI laws. The feds forced the states to accept a very low definition of DUI.

Carl,

That is correct. They actually withheld Federal Highway Improvement Funds...gotta love those Democratic Congresses back in the 1980's!!!!

Thanks Mark.

Nice to know someone else noticed.



Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on July 22, 2004, 11:56:21 PM
Uh, I'd hate to be the one to break this to you, but it was Reagan who established the 21 drinking age.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: raggage on July 23, 2004, 02:19:14 AM
I can't believe you all think it should be lowered. When you are assigned to respond to a drink driving accident when a drunk 17 year old killed himself and 4 other people, and you have to notify the parents I think you'll change your mind.

Case and point. 18 year olds are NOT mature enough for alcohol.

Raggage,

You've been a cop too long...think about it...they are not mature enough to drink, but they are mature enough to vote for the people who make the rules on who is mature enough to drink...think about it...

Perhaps yes, but the problem remains, the younger the age the more likely people under that age are going to have access to it.    Younger teens have a lot more contact with those aged 18 than those aged 21. If it is lowered, I think we are just asking for more instances of teen drunkeness and fatal crashes.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: minionofmidas on July 23, 2004, 07:35:43 AM
I had a teacher who visited Germany, and he said the McDonald's restaurants there serve big mugs of beer to little kids.
Hard liquor from age 18, beer and wine from age 16. That's the law in germany, and I think it's quite what is called for.
McDonalds does serve beer in Germany, but in paper cups. Hardly anybody ever drinks beer there - there are millions of nicer places to drink in.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: English on July 23, 2004, 08:04:26 AM
The drinking age should be scrapped. It's unwarranted interfearance in people's private lives.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on July 23, 2004, 11:27:38 AM
McDonalds does serve beer in Germany, but in paper cups. Hardly anybody ever drinks beer there - there are millions of nicer places to drink in.

This was 20 years ago when my teacher told us about this. Maybe it's different now from what it used to be.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on July 23, 2004, 01:26:03 PM
Uh, I'd hate to be the one to break this to you, but it was Reagan who established the 21 drinking age.

Uh, I hate to break this to you.

But, Congress was the one who withheld the money.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: MarkDel on July 23, 2004, 02:29:20 PM
Uh, I'd hate to be the one to break this to you, but it was Reagan who established the 21 drinking age.

Uh, I hate to break this to you.

But, Congress was the one who withheld the money.

Carl,

Please, I warned you about using those nasty facts to ruin an argument...LOL


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: cwelsch on July 23, 2004, 02:50:11 PM
The feds should drop it to 18 then eliminate highway punishments for states failing to comply.  States should regulate it or not as they see fit, provided that 18-year-olds and above can drink.  You're an adult, you should be able to drink.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Platypus on July 24, 2004, 02:47:52 AM
Here, the drinking age is zero, and quite rightly. The purchasing age is 18, same age as voting, driving, and buying tobacco. Basically, the adult age.

In Victoria, AUS, the law is basically that anyone can drink, but underage drinkers must be accompanied by a parent or guardian or somebody with a parents or gaudians' acceptance who is over 18, and that under 18-year olds can't buy alchohol. Seems reasonable to me.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: TheMadcapSyd on July 24, 2004, 11:26:59 AM
I Think 18 is a good age for it to be at you can vote at that age, your're legally an adult, you can go fight in wars, so why not drink, and I also think this should be a state thing though.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: raggage on July 25, 2004, 04:16:23 AM
I Think 18 is a good age for it to be at you can vote at that age, your're legally an adult, you can go fight in wars, so why not drink, and I also think this should be a state thing though.

I still think we are just inviting more road deaths and underage abuse of alcohol though..

Welcome to the forum, none-the-less


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: minionofmidas on July 25, 2004, 06:11:25 AM
Here, the drinking age is zero, and quite rightly.
That's actually true in Germany - it's sale and possession that are illegal, not consumption. In fact, that logic, in Germany, extends to drug use as well.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Nym90 on July 25, 2004, 08:57:30 AM
The minimum age to buy alcohol should be 18. You get all of the other rights of adulthood at 18, you should get the right to drink as well.

As for those under the age of 18, I feel it should be legal for them to drink if they are in the company of a parent or legal guardian. The government shouldn't be able to encroach on parental rights in this regard.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: TheMadcapSyd on July 25, 2004, 10:38:17 AM
I Think 18 is a good age for it to be at you can vote at that age, your're legally an adult, you can go fight in wars, so why not drink, and I also think this should be a state thing though.

I still think we are just inviting more road deaths and underage abuse of alcohol though..

Welcome to the forum, none-the-less

That's the thing though, the United States has the world's highest and most enforced drinking age, and to go with that, we have the world's highest number of accidents relating to drunk driving, in terms of a solid number, and in the percent of crashes alcohol is involved in.


Title: Re:Drinking Age
Post by: Redefeatbush04 on November 22, 2004, 07:19:03 PM
Drinking age should be left up to the states


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Bogart on November 22, 2004, 07:29:22 PM
It should be left up to the states. If it weren't for the Congress threatening to withold highway funds, many states would never have raised it in the first place. It was blackmail--pure and simple.

Here's an interesting little twist on the 21-year old drinking age that I ran into in Wisconsin. Under state law, your parents can order a drink to serve to you if you are under 18. You are still a minor and in their custody. However, when you turn 18 until you turn 21, you are in a kind of legal limbo. You are no longer a minor, so technically your parents cannot serve you a drink, but you are not old enough to order it for yourself. At this point, really the only thing you can do is get married to an of-age spouse and have them serve it to you, since the law also allows for this.

Kind of highlights how dumb the whole thing is.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: A18 on November 22, 2004, 07:30:40 PM
If there's going to be one, it should be 16.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Julien on November 22, 2004, 08:03:29 PM
Here it is 16


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Redefeatbush04 on November 22, 2004, 08:16:37 PM

Most nations have lower drinking ages. They aren't as fascist as we are.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: khirkhib on November 22, 2004, 08:23:08 PM
I think they should raise it to 25 for guys and lower it to 17 for girls.   The bar scene would be a lot more interesting.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: A18 on November 22, 2004, 08:26:43 PM
^We could do that, if not for the fascist 14th amendment.

The only free thing left in this country is the market. And one of the political parties is already working on 'fixing' that.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: George W. Bush on November 22, 2004, 09:25:09 PM
I think is should be lowered to 18! no Question. If they can die in war then they should be able to drink a beer!


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: visioncat on November 23, 2004, 03:57:51 AM
It's bad enough that you can die for your country in a war and be unable to drink, but consider this:

In all the states with the death penalty you can be legally killed by the state for your actions before you're legally allowed to drink a beer.

Surely even the most ardent fans of state sanctioned murder can see a 'responsibility gap' here?

So what's it to be?  Accept this ridiculous disparity or lower the drinking age to 16/17/18 or up death penalty eligibility age to 21? (if you're not going to do the civilized thing and scrap the death penalty altogether)

What does everyone think?


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: A18 on November 23, 2004, 09:42:53 PM
I see absolutely no connection between being responsible enough not to murder someone and being responsible enough to drink.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: muon2 on November 24, 2004, 12:14:20 AM
Remember that there is no national restriction on drinking under the age of 21. There is a restriction on getting Federal highway funds for any state without a drinking age of 21. Any state that wishes to forego its share of Federal highway money may do so.

Seriously, the probelm revolves around drinking, driving, and high school. States with drinking ages of 18 and even 19 had problems with high school drinking and driving. A solution to those problems would take the most important steps to a revised drinking age.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Lunar on November 24, 2004, 05:08:35 PM
Remember that there is no national restriction on drinking under the age of 21. There is a restriction on getting Federal highway funds for any state without a drinking age of 21. Any state that wishes to forego its share of Federal highway money may do so.

Does Rhode Island get much money from Federal highway funds?  I'd love to see Rhode Island become "Rogue Island" again.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: muon2 on November 25, 2004, 05:22:27 PM
Remember that there is no national restriction on drinking under the age of 21. There is a restriction on getting Federal highway funds for any state without a drinking age of 21. Any state that wishes to forego its share of Federal highway money may do so.

Does Rhode Island get much money from Federal highway funds?  I'd love eto see Rhode Island become "Rogue Island" again.
That would drive MA and CT crazy.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Josh/Devilman88 on November 27, 2004, 12:55:24 PM
I think there should be no drinking age. If you look at countries who don't have drinking age most people (teens) don't drink. I think that is because they only want to do what they can't do.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: YRABNNRM on November 27, 2004, 01:11:13 PM
I think there should be no drinking age. If you look at countries who don't have drinking age most people (teens) don't drink. I think that is because they only want to do what they can't do.

I remember having a very strong debate with you on this subject, I believe you wanted the drinking age to be raised even higher...


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Keystone Phil on November 27, 2004, 01:54:27 PM
I think there should be no drinking age. If you look at countries who don't have drinking age most people (teens) don't drink. I think that is because they only want to do what they can't do.

I remember having a very strong debate with you on this subject, I believe you wanted the drinking age to be raised even higher...

He's re-inventing himself...again.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Josh/Devilman88 on November 27, 2004, 02:12:22 PM
I think there should be no drinking age. If you look at countries who don't have drinking age most people (teens) don't drink. I think that is because they only want to do what they can't do.

I remember having a very strong debate with you on this subject, I believe you wanted the drinking age to be raised even higher...

I did, but then  after looking at France they have no drinking age and look at them. They do not have drunk drivers, they have no problem with it at all. That is because they are uses to it and there for they body can take the drinking they do, unlike here in America.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Keystone Phil on November 27, 2004, 02:20:53 PM
I think there should be no drinking age. If you look at countries who don't have drinking age most people (teens) don't drink. I think that is because they only want to do what they can't do.

I remember having a very strong debate with you on this subject, I believe you wanted the drinking age to be raised even higher...

I did, but then  after looking at France they have no drinking age and look at them. They do not have drunk drivers, they have no problem with it at all. That is because they are uses to it and there for they body can take the drinking they do, unlike here in America.

That post made no sense. No drunk drivers in France? No problems with it? First of all there are never "no problems" with alcohol. People will get drunk, people will get into accidents. That happens everywhere.

Also, the French and other Europeans are used to drinking at younger ages, I agree. However, that could be the main point for not lowering the age in the U.S. Drinking is part of their culture. They are more responsible drinkers. Then you say Americans can't take the drinking at a younger age. Well...why would you want it lowered? It just doesn't make sense.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Josh/Devilman88 on November 27, 2004, 02:50:57 PM
I think there should be no drinking age. If you look at countries who don't have drinking age most people (teens) don't drink. I think that is because they only want to do what they can't do.

I remember having a very strong debate with you on this subject, I believe you wanted the drinking age to be raised even higher...

I did, but then  after looking at France they have no drinking age and look at them. They do not have drunk drivers, they have no problem with it at all. That is because they are uses to it and there for they body can take the drinking they do, unlike here in America.

That post made no sense. No drunk drivers in France? No problems with it? First of all there are never "no problems" with alcohol. People will get drunk, people will get into accidents. That happens everywhere.

Also, the French and other Europeans are used to drinking at younger ages, I agree. However, that could be the main point for not lowering the age in the U.S. Drinking is part of their culture. They are more responsible drinkers. Then you say Americans can't take the drinking at a younger age. Well...why would you want it lowered? It just doesn't make sense.

Our bodies can't take it right now but our kids could.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Red Button on November 27, 2004, 02:56:59 PM
Abolish the drinking age.  Look at Europe.  Their kids do not have nearly the drinking problems that we do.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: TeePee4Prez on November 27, 2004, 10:02:36 PM
I think they should raise it to 25 for guys and lower it to 17 for girls.   The bar scene would be a lot more interesting.

There would be lawsuits flying around like crazy then.  I think the age should be 18, no lower.   


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Lunar on November 27, 2004, 10:04:00 PM
Abolish the drinking age.  Look at Europe.  Their kids do not have nearly the drinking problems that we do.

You ever been to a European drinking party?

I would say it's about the same in Europe from my experiences.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: patrick1 on December 01, 2004, 09:41:06 AM
From my experience, Euorpeans go out to the pub more but get drunk less.  Maybe drunk is not the word but Americans tend to get more dangerously drunk.  Many American teens are sheltered from the drink and when they get to college they nearly kill themselves. 


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: freek on December 01, 2004, 12:22:29 PM

In the Netherlands it is 16 for beer and wine, and other low-alcoholic drinks. 18 for drinks with higher percentages.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Padfoot on December 29, 2006, 11:27:12 PM
I've always found it insulting that the government has the audacity to ban legal adults from consuming whatever beverage they choose.  This issue will never go anywhere though.  College students don't hold that much political power.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: bullmoose88 on December 29, 2006, 11:43:39 PM
I also think that having such an old age for legal drinking just makes it forbidden fruit.  I never enjoyed drinking so much once I became legal as I did when I was doing it illegally -- using fake ID, sneaking, etc.  That's a big part of the fun of it.

You really must have enjoyed drinking.

In all seriousness...I totally agree. The rush from drinking is gone.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: MAS117 on December 30, 2006, 12:06:42 AM
If you can go out and die for your country at 18, you should be able to sit down and have a beer with your fellow soldiers at 18.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Nym90 on December 30, 2006, 12:00:49 PM
In light of the thread on teen curfews, I thought this one might be a good one to refresh...

I don't know what I wrote before, but I'm pretty 'liberal' on drinking age.  I think a person old enough to vote and serve in the military ought to be old enough to drink.

I heard it suggested once, half jokingly, that we Americans have the order of things backwards.  We allow driving first and drinking last, and maybe we ought to reverse it.

I also think that having such an old age for legal drinking just makes it forbidden fruit.  I never enjoyed drinking so much once I became legal as I did when I was doing it illegally -- using fake ID, sneaking, etc.  That's a big part of the fun of it.

Good point. I do also think that the drinking age should be lowered to 18. If you can vote and go to war, you oughta be able to drink.

Of course, politically, there is no incentive to lower the age, since most older people support keeping it higher, and they vote far moreso than 18-20 year olds who would benefit from lowering it do. By the time most of the younger folks get old enough to really start caring about voting, they are old enough to drink, and don't care enough about the issue anymore (or may even reverse their position).


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Nym90 on December 30, 2006, 12:14:27 PM
I agree with dazzleman, as usual.  Once we take away the thrill, we take away the overuse of alcohol by teens.  The problem is, if we lower it to 18, 16-year-olds and such will still go crazy.  I don't think there is a need for a drinking age, the government doesn't need to play parent here.

I definitely don't think anyone under 18 should be permitted to purchase alcohol, but if your parents allow you to drink, that should be their business, I agree.

And I do think we should crack down severely on drunk driving, also.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Undisguised Sockpuppet on December 30, 2006, 01:41:02 PM
Abolish the drinking age.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: SPC on December 30, 2006, 02:07:07 PM
If you can go out and die for your country at 18, you should be able to sit down and have a beer with your fellow soldiers at 18.

Well said.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: adam on December 30, 2006, 03:04:05 PM
I agree with what seems to be the consensus. If you can fight to defend the freedom of your country at the age of 18, you should be able to enjoy a drink at such an age.

If this is too much of a problem, raise the age to serve to 21. Either way, I don't think the two should be different.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Gustaf on December 30, 2006, 03:11:38 PM
Here in Sweden people band together at each other's houses and drink till they pass out. Or they get together in a park and drink till they pass out. Or they get together in the street and drink till they pass out. It's pretty sad.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Gustaf on December 30, 2006, 03:12:53 PM
Oh, and some of the issues raised here are fixed easily: simply raise the voting age and the drinking age. As far as fighting goes, that has to do with obligations and we all have obligations without necessarily having rights.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: AkSaber on December 31, 2006, 06:09:19 PM
Hmmm. This is something I've been thinking a lot about lately. I guess it's cause I want to go into the military coupled with the fact that the people we're electing want to invade any Mid East country just to bump off an Arab leader. :P

Anyway, I think it should be 18. I think it is ridiculous and insulting that I can die for my country but they won't let me have alcohol. I'm mature enough to be trained to kill with a rifle, pistol, bayonet, even with my bare hands, but having alcohol is something only for mature adults. >_<


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Mr. Paleoconservative on December 31, 2006, 06:19:28 PM
I think the issue ought to be returned to the States.

To keep people from crossing State lines for the purpose of buying booze (when they would be underage in their own State), they would be carding the individuals to see their State of residence, then would or would not sale based on if it would be a violation of that State's age law.


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on December 31, 2006, 06:31:12 PM
Here in Sweden people band together at each other's houses and drink till they pass out. Or they get together in a park and drink till they pass out. Or they get together in the street and drink till they pass out. It's pretty sad.

Congratulations on being one of few countries in the World worse for drinking than us :P


Title: Re: Drinking Age
Post by: Tetro Kornbluth on January 01, 2007, 02:07:47 PM
Here in Sweden people band together at each other's houses and drink till they pass out. Or they get together in a park and drink till they pass out. Or they get together in the street and drink till they pass out. It's pretty sad.

Congratulations on being one of few countries in the World worse for drinking than us :P


And this non-drinker will tell you that Ireland is even worse! :P