Talk Elections

I don't know if this topic was brought up before but I thought it would be good to discuss. So who is your favorite foreign leader?

For me, I have to say Silvio Berlusconi.

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 I know I'm going to get a lot of criticism but hey...he's a strong conservative voice in liberal Europe.

Another political figure I admire is Iain Duncan Smith. He's not a head of state but he was the former leader of Britain's Conservative Party.

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I'm sure the our British and other foreign friends on the forum will just love who I admire!

Silvio Berlesconi?

IDS?

I *know* you're just trolling now.

Slivio is one of the most venomous, disgusting people in the world.

IDS is..well, he's not as bad, but i certainly wouldn't want to have him as Prime Minister.

There are not many people who I would prefer Howard over, but SBerlesconi is most certainly one of them.

Coincidentally, my most admired world leader is non existant. None of them are any good, really. Thebo is an idiot on AIDS. Gerhad can't run the economy. Putin wins the elections by a bit TOO much. Martin is probably as close as it gets, and that's kinda sad :p

Historical: Churchill

Current: Blair or Sharon

He's the man right here...

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Excuse me I would prefer if you don't call me a troll. I've never been accused of that before by even those who disagree with me the most. I resent being referred to a troll when I spend a lot of time engaging in civil debate.

Recent Past leaders: 1) Yitzhak Rabin 2) Carlos Salinas 3) Mikhail Gorbachev 4) Margaret Thatcher 5) Helmut Kohl 6) Ehud Barak

Current leaders: 1) Tony Blair 2) ...  3) ... 4) ... where are they??

I totally forgot about Maggie Thatcher. She fought alongside Reagan during the Cold War and had a strong voice for conservative causes in Britain.
 
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Keystone:
1) why IDS?? IMHO he was one of the worst leaders the Tories have had. Thatcher, Major, Hague and Michael Howard, all better than IDS - Even some others that weren't leaders like Kenneth Clarke and Michael Portillo. What does IDS has in particular?

2) I think it doesn't matter whether Berlusconi is conservative or not, or if he supported the war or not. It has been proven beyond doubt that he is one of the most corrupt and crooked politicians around. Many people will argue that most politicians in Italy are equally corrupt - well, true, but that is not a justification. He has basically accomplished zero in Italy - compare that to the record of Aznar in Spain, an effective conservative.

The reason why I admire Smith is because I enjoyed his debates with Blair the most. Hague was ok and I'm not a huge Howard fan right now. He's just taken over fairly recently so I'm just not used to watching him debate. So many people say that IDS was boring and quiet but I saw him as an exciting leader in the House of Commons during PM questions.

Now concerning Berlusconi...the whole corruption thing certainly isn't a positive thing about him but his conservativism is something I admire in an ever changing, left leaning Europe.

Ok, I never saw IDS debating, since I can't watch C-SPAN in Mexico. I can now that I'm here. But, even The Economist (my favorite source for news) which you could call "conservative" in certain way, was not very favorable to IDS. I think Hague would have made a great leader if he had waited until now; he was way too young.
Anyway, if I were allowed to vote in Britain, I would have voted every time for Thatcher and the first time for Major, but would have voted for Blair everytime.

Foreign leaders I like/d (I wouldn't say admire/d)...
lemme think...
Jean Chrétien maybe...
Guy Verhofstadt...
Gorbachev when I was a kid, but I share that aberration in taste with most Germans...
Mandela (hey - that was easy, wasn't it?)
Vaclav Havel...
I know that's a pretty mixed bag...

You're kidding me right? Silvio Berlusconi? Do you know much about the man?

He was booted out of government back in the nineties I think it was for corruption and then when he somehow managed to weasel his way back, he reformed the law so that neither he, nor his cronies could be investigated for corruption charges. The man is as corrupt as they come.

On Iain Duncan Smith, are you serious? Interesting? He was a terrible debater and THE most ineffective leader of the opposition in history and as such the only one not to have a waxwork in Madame Tussaudes. He was useless, we called him Iain Duncan Cough or The Quiet Man. One of the  most uninspiring speakers who failed to capitalise when Labour's numbers were falling. Labour's base of support was ripe for the picking and he sat there and did nothing, managing to drop the Tories by a point while the Liberal Democrats took all the support.

IDS was weak and demanded loyalty when in the past he had be disloyal and rebellious under the Major government he deserves no respect or admiration and the nerve he demonstrated in demanding loyalty from his colleagues was so breathtakingly hypocritical that it was laughable...

I must confess to find Silvio rather cool :D in a corrupt, despotic sorta way ;)

But to top the list it has to be Tony...

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…god bless Tony :)

This link I found quite funny  

http://www.westlaonline.com/blair2004/

apart from Tony… hmmm, I guess kinda admire Michael Heseltine ()

who was a former minister in the conservative governments of the 1980’s and 1990’s and the defacto leader of the moderate “wet” wing of the party for that time despite ultimately failing to become prime minister… his only down side is he is very very pro-European :(  same as Blair

I signed it ;D. There are 5508 signatures on there!!!!!

I tend to dislike actual politicians, maybe because they all tend to be either liars or whiners and the ones that aren't rarely fit me in most areas.  And of course I hate the politics of pretty much anywhere outside the US (and to a lesser degree Canada) because those countries hate the middle class and think having a little money is a sign of laziness or dishonesty.  Of course, tons of the same people who hate the middle class love super-rich people like actors or the Queen (met and talked to tons of Laborites who love the Queen).  I just don't fit much of anywhere because they all seem to hate the market and hate anybody who accumulates any bit of wealth.

If forced to answer I'd probably quote you philosophers or something.  If you held my arm to my back I'd probably be convinced to say a few nice things about Thatcher (although I don't even know if I'd've voted for her) or Mulroney in Canada.  Nowadays, I dunno, probably Westerwelle of the German Free Democrats (not exactly a political mastermind, if results count).

Naturally I'd be very positive on Otto Guevara, the first Libertario elected in Costa Rica (although not the last, since 2002) and to a lesser degree on Rodney Hide of ACT New Zealand (also a Libertarian party).  But then I don't know a ton about Westerwelle, I know next to nothing of Hide, and a fair amount on Guevara.  But knowing libertarians/classical-liberals and political positions can lead me to make assumptions and guesses.


All of which assumes you mean leader in a vaguer sense of the word than you probably did.

Most world leaders are scumbags or incompetent idiots.

Overall, Blair's done a good job... and his constituancy is in County Durham :)

Gary Doer (the Premier of Manitoba) has done a good job overall...

Phil, Phil...what have we said about Silvio? :P

He isn't even an effective conservative. Despite leading a stable government, I think it has survived longer than any other Italian government since Mussolini, he has failed to do anything about Italy's abysmal, over-regulated economy. He's a mafia type who refuses to allow criticism against him be aired on the channels he control, about 95% of all Italian tv.

I'll have to go with Blair.

But I also don't hate Jacques Chirac, as many Americans do. I applaud him to stadning up for what he belived in, even when he was being pressured and mocked by the powerful American government.

For me he's not foreign, but I like John Howard, Prime Minister of Australia.  Like George W, he's facing a tough election later this year.  His opposition is the Australian Labor Party's (ALP) Mark Latham, a foul-mouthed socialist from the outer fringe of Sydney.

Aussie elections tend to be close in the federal arena, and this one will be a cliff-hanger.  Latham's main election promise so far is to cut and run from Iraq, the same way Spain did.  If that happens, most Australians will be ashamed.  I did not personally agree with starting the Iraq war, although I hated Saddam.  However, now that we are there we need to stay the distance and help the common Iraqi people, who just want to live in peace.

Most foreign leaders are neither good nor bad...I would say Blair's pretty good though. But politicians should never be allowed to gain our trust too much...

Who is Laloo Prasad?

Laloo Prasad the poster or Laloo Prasad the crook scumbag politician?
a) formerly known as Lewis Trondheim
b) the former PM of the Indian state of Bihar, husband of the current PM. Was a mobster before he became a politician, a poor labourer before he became a mobster. Leader of the Rashtriya Janata Dal, a key partner of the current congress government. His policy proposals are leftwingish populist anti-Brahmins. Al described him as "the Huey Long of Indian politics". Plus, he's my character in the Pawns of Power RPG.

IDS was a complete idiot and Berlusconi is a crook.

I would say Silvio Berlusconi (who, if he were an American, would be your typical New York Republican), but the euros will start carping and whatnot.

Noooo way! Berlusconi is no New York Republican. NY Republicans tend to be more moderate and he is no moderate, believe me.

Now Berlusconi has had his scandals and ya know what...I don't defend him for any corrupt dealings he's been involved in. But for his conservative voice and his stronger leadership (Italy's Olive Tree coalition was defeated in a landslide in 2001 for a reason ya know) I admire him. He also stood with America during the Iraq war when we weren't very popular in Europe. Like him or not, that took courage to do as a leader in Europe.

I can't say I'm fond of many current foreign leaders.  I really dislike the current P.M. of Thailand - Thaksin.  He's a nationalist and is both anti-foreigner and pro-westernization.  He's proposed all sorts of America-emulating reductions in freedom, from liquor sales hours to enforcing early closure for nightlife venues and measures against prostitution.  He appears to want to turn Thailand into another productive, purritanical place where fun is against the rules.

Does Jean Chretien count?

Another Canadian politican I like(d) was/is Mel Lastman, former Mayor or Toronto.

Lech Walesa. I know he's not too active anymore, but still a great man.

That reason being him owning pretty much all tv... :P

Le Pen.

Any of the W European leaders (Berlusconi, Blair, Howard, and Aznar) who went against the grain and supported the liberation of Iraq.

Howard isn't W. European, he's Australian. :)

Whatever. :)

Add Koizumi to the list of leaders of industrial countries that backed us.

You're being too one-sided...the Iraq war isn't all that matters. Aznar I do like, but Berlusconi has so many negatives...his coalition is largely a continuation of Mussolini, but more mafia-style... :P

Rooney Hide, the leader of the ACT New Zeeland, the biggest Libertarian Party in the world. Altough they are a bit oo moderate, they are the best I could find.
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I hate all european politicians. if I hear another one blabering about the european social model...

Isn't Lech Walesa dead now?

Only politically

I don't like Latham, but he isn't a socialist. He is the most moderate Labor leader in decades. foul-mouthed? Yes. But I would prefer someone who was at least honest and foul motuthed then slimy and never swore.


I personally agree, we should stay there. But it isn't his main policy, it's reading to children ;)

I suggest you read my "This is a farce!" thread in international elections ;)

Is this from an American perspective? If it's from an American point of view I say former PM José Maria Aznar, my personal hero. If I am talking about leaders outside of my country then it is probably Bush because he sticks to his principles and does not care what others think of him. I disagreed with his war but I think that he believed what he was doing was right.

Only in politics, really. It's very unfortunately that's he's been downgraded so much when he is certainly one of the most important character in breaking up the Soviet Union.

Yeah, I like Aznar a lot.. he really stuck his neck out on Iraq issue, for someone from a fairly left-leaning Continental nation.  Also, from what little I know of him he's done a good job with some moderate economic liberalization in Spain.

True. I like Aznar too...except for lying about the terrorist attacks they experienced. :P

He's a lot better than Berlusconi whom some of you Republicans have down as your hero... ;)

I like Pinochet as well.

Pinochet is interesting. he is detested by the middle class, but the richest and poorest chileans still love him; he has a 46% approval rate.

It was wrong for him to get rid of the democratically elected Allende. That said, he did make Chile one of the cnomically stronger countries in South America, THAT said, he killed thousands of diddidents.

On balance, I have a *severe* distaste for him, but he wasn't the worst of his time, and he isn't anywhere near the worst of all time.

Actually the main reason was the Election Law and the fact that the Left didn't put up the sort of united candidacies it supports...DiPietro and the Old-Style Communists between them made Berlusconi PM.

Oh, I was having my tounge out when I said that...look! ;)

Just because someone is elected doesn't mean the minority can't stage a rebellion or coup and get rid of him.  Majority rule is no comfort if your property is about to be confiscated.  Pinochet did what had to be done.

It's a tie between Hugo Chavez and Zapatero.

I like Chirac a bunch too. My favorite conservative.

Any foreign leader that has the balls to back the USA up.
Including Aznar, Howard, Blair, Koizumi, Kwasniewski.

Also, I respect Sharon and personally like Fox.
I liked Rabin to.

Chirac, Schroeder, Putin, Kofi Annan, etc. can go kiss my @ss.

Can't think of any contemporary ones that I like.

Historically, Churchill, Thatcher, and Roger Douglas. Thatcher would probably have been re-elected again if she hadn't tried to push through that stupid poll tax. But what she managed to do in the UK was far more than Reagan ever achieved. Same for Roger Douglas, who was finance minister in New Zealand and turned it from a socialist sh!thole into one of the freest economies in the world.

Generally I loathe politicians. Right around the bottom of the list is Brian Mulroney, who was the Progressive Conservative--now there's an oxymoron--prime minister of Canada during the Reagan and Thatcher years. He talked about reducing the size of government but did no such thing after getting elected. Instead, he indulged in rampant cronyism and brought in a national sales tax. He eventually resigned just before an election that saw his party drop from a majority to 2 seats. One of the biggest pricks to ever disgrace the Canadian stage, right up there with Trudeau.

is not a foreign leader anymore :P.

instead we have the very awesome Zapatero! he rocks!

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Gro Harlem Brundtland.

Oh yeah, yay socialists... With no balls.

Luis De Silva.

*Ford puts his fist through the monitor in a blind rage*

:D

Of course, from an american point of view, my current favourite foreign leader is Durão Barroso:
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Ricardo Lagos (chile) and Bill Clinton are on top. Zapatero is near that, but it´s too early to say. I like Blair, no matter his attitude towards Bush.

BTW, those figure of support for Pinochet are completely exaggerated, especially since the discovery of his accounts in foreign banks. Who can like someone that tortured and murdered 3000 people?

Even though she is a lesbian, Helen Clarke is pretty cool.

BTW, I just found out Dawn Fraser is a lesbian. No link at all, of course.

Helen Clarke.... a lesbian? How the hell did you come to that conclusion? She is married to a University Vice-Chancellor. Yes, she looks and sounds masculine, but she is certainly no lesbian!

But yes, shes one of the worlds better, socially liberal leaders

Blair and Zapatero.

Interesting choice, Beet :D

José Luis Zapatero, Junchiro Koizumi and former french Prime Minister Lionel Jospin

My favorite Foriegn leaders are UK PM Tony Blair, Japanese PM Koizumi, fmr UK PM Margaret Thatcher, Italian PM Silvio Burlusconi, CPC leader Stephen Harper, fmr PCPc leader Peter Mckay, and the current PM of Australia John Howard.

you say that as if he is about to lose the next election ;)