Talk Elections

Just curious.  I know that the South was solidly Dem. until a few decades ago, but I'm trying to think of a single example from the GOP's entire history when they nominated someone from the South aside from Texas for either president or vice president, and I can't think of any cases where that happened.  (I'd classify "The South" as all the states that were in the Confederacy, plus KY, OK, and WV.  And "nominated from" the state means that they launched their political career there, not that they were born there.  So, e.g., Reagan counts as "from" CA rather than IL.)

The only example that I can think of is Andrew Johnson in 1864, though obviously that's a special case, since he wasn't really a Republican.  There are probably several examples that I'm just not thinking of, but if not, then it might very well happen for the first time in 2008 (or not....still unclear who'll be nominated for either prez or VP).

None that I can tell, although that will probably change in 2008.

In theory, Agnew (MD).

Let's see...

Dole?  Nope -- that's Kansas.

Agnew?  Nah -- too much of a stretch to say Maryland is "South", even though it was a slave state.

I think you're right.

You are kinda limiting the "South."  By most definitions, Texas was part of the "South" and, at lest until 1950 or so, Maryland would be as well.  It was a slave state that was segregated until the 1950's.

Meh, I don't really consider Maryland to be part of the South.  Texas certainly is the South.  I was just wondering if there were any examples outside of Texas.

And the answer is, "only if you count Agnew".
Maryland is the South, historically. Maryland still is the South, in more ways than not.
Agnew, Baltimore city operator and second-generation Greek immigrant, was certainly not a Southern Politician by any stretch of the imagination, though.

Is Indiana the South? Um... wasn't Kemp from NY?

No.

That kinda was my point.

Ah, okay. I think I got your point now. :) Your point is that you don't understand Maryland all that well. :P

Maryland is south of the Mason-Dixon line.  And it was a slave state.

But it didn't secede.  And Marylanders fought for both the Union and the Confederacy in the Civil War. 

So ask a Marylander if he is a Southerner, and it might depend on how he views the Late Unpleasantness.

Barry Goldwater

He was born in Phoenix which is located within the boundaries of the Confederate Arizona Territory (southern half of present day Arizona and New Mexico)

That's really stretching the definition of South.

Well, in 1864 the Republican party called itself (for that election), the Union party, and nominated Andrew Johnson (Tennessee) for Vice-President.

Depends on if you mean geographically or culturally.  In terms of culture... pretty much, if you don't count Gary and South Bend.

I think that is the key.

If I'm going by was slavery legal there in 1860, Maryland is a southern state.  If I'm going by segregation in 1950, Maryland is a southern state.

If I'm going by if country music is really popular and agriculture is big, Maryland is a northern state and Indiana is a southern state.

Oh yes. Funny how no one (including me)
thought of pointing him out. Might I also add, Abraham Lincoln was originally from Kentucky.
Huh? What's agriculture got to do with the South? The states where agriculture is biggest are as a rule midwestern, not southern.
The best identifying mark of the south is an at least formerly large rural Black population.

Except for the first post in the thread, where I said:

"The only example that I can think of is Andrew Johnson in 1864, though obviously that's a special case, since he wasn't really a Republican."

Who reads first posts?

Traditionally, the South was agricultural, probably at least until 1960.  Further, it wasn't mechanized until after WWII, at least at the same rate as the midwest.

You really didn't see a highly urbanized Black population until well after WWII.  You had pockets, but most of my neighbors had fathers or grandfathers that "came up" from the south, generally after WWII.

It's the untold story in white America.

Yes, of course. I was talking about current rates of agricultural employment, though.
And re Blacks - with only a handful of exceptions, Blacks in the North are and always have been overwhelmingly urban. Blacks in the South, not much more so (and until 50 years ago, considerably less so) than Whites.

Republican Abrahamn Lincoln was born in Kentucky, however, his political career, and his election to the Presidency took place, of course, in Illinois.

Therefore, the GOP has nominated a candidate for President who was born in the south.

I hadn't thought about this until I saw this thread, though it looks like there aren't any cases. Part of this is because the pre-1960 South was reliably Democratic. But since 1960 there have been four non-Texan southern Democratic nominees (Carter, Clinton, Gore, Edwards), but none for the GOP. This will probably change this upcoming election, but does anyone have a guess why this has been true the past 50 years?

For the first few decades, there weren't any established, electable Southern Republicans outside Texas. Nowadays, the Republicans don't need to pander to the South; they have it locked up. On the other hand, the Democrats are vainly searching for another 1976. It looks like they've finally given up.

Looks like it's not happening this time either.  In fact, I guess this would be the first presidential election since 1972 in which neither ticket includes a southerner....assuming you don't count Maryland (or Delaware, since, as Joe Biden reminds us, it "was a slave state").

Actually, if you *do* count Maryland as the South, but not Delaware, then this is the first election without a southerner on either ticket since....what?  1944?

I'd say 1940, because by that logic, Missouri is just as much a Southern state as Delaware or Maryland.

*bump*

Didn't happen in 2012 either.  Another GOP ticket with two Yankees.

It's sort of nice that "Yankee" may be used not only in the original sense of New England WASP and the modern internationally accepted sense of American Citizen - that there are also a number of hazily-defined intermediate usages that have their historical reasons. It renders so many sentences featuring the term lovely, meaningless and postmodern.

Andrew Johnson (Democrat, but he was on a Republican ticket)

Fremont was born in Georgia, if birth states count.

1864 was the Union Party, not the Republican Party.  Also the epithet GOP dates to 1884.

Interesting that it hasn't happened. Perhaps such states went from solidly Democratic to the base of the GOP, making it unnecessary to pander to them. Texans (I believe) were all from big political families.

BTW, this is the first GOP ticket of 2 non-Protestants since when?

Never. 

If you say Maryland is southern, you had Agnew in 1968 and 1972.  It was far more of a "southern" state at that time.

I don't consider Arizona 'the South', so 2008 didn't have any Southerners either.

I wrote that in 2008, so "this election" obviously referred to the 2008 election.

No, but it acts like it is part of it

The correct answer is: Spiro Agnew.

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Maryland is barely Southern.

Oh! Sorry, I didn't see that. Tough with resurrected threads sometimes.

Maybe Agnew, but I don't think so from the former Confederacy.

If the South had won the war, instead of a West Virginia, there might well have been a division of Maryland, with the Eastern Shore joining the Confederacy as East Maryland.  Indeed, there had been proposals before the Civil War to have the Eastern and Western Shores become separate states or have the Eastern Shores of Maryland and Virginia join Delaware as a single State encompassing the whole Delmarva Peninsula (tho not by that name as it didn't come into use until the early 20th century.

What the heck is a non-Texan Southerner? Is that like a non-Alabaman Yankee?

It's someone from a southern state other than Texas. Reading comprehension! :)

I don't know where people get this idea that Texas is somehow a Southern state.

It depends on the part of Texas. East Texas from Texarkana down through Tyler and Marshall to Port Arthur and Beaumont, for instance, is obviously Southern culturally, whereas Midland and Odessa and Lubbock are about as Western as you can get.

Those Texas Republicans who have been nominated for Vice President and President, however, have not been associated with the parts of Texas that most people would consider Southern, unless you count the part of Houston that H.W. represented in the House.

I wouldn't consider the part of Maryland that Spiro Agnew was from remotely Southern either.

As a part of the Confederacy, Texas fits very vell into "Southern states" category. If only historically.

No, but Democrats have nominated many, as well as a few Southerners from Texas.

Does the GOP have relevent non-Texan southerners to nominate?

Not this year either.

Have there been any Republican Texans other than the Bushes?

Sure, just take a look at my username.

Never per state of residence, but Fremont was a native of Georgia. And if we take a liberal interpretation of the upper Soith, Lincolm (Kentucky) would somewhat qualify.

I wasn't aware LBJ was a Republican.

I think he meant anyone and not a Republican in particular as the thread title.

My post was meant to imply Republican based on the thread title. I have edited that post to make it clearer.

Going forward, there are quite a number of potential options: Marco Rubio, Tom Cotton, Nikki Haley, Tim Scott, Bill Haslam, etc.

Spiro Agnew.

Dole/Kemp

We decided a long time ago that the answer is only if you count Agnew as a southerner.

I mean technically Trump hasn't announced Pence, so we COULD end up with Gingrich (GA)

Better question: Will the Dems ever nominate someone from the West of the Mississippi ever again?

?? Which one is Southern ??

The Dems have never nominated a President or VP from a state west of the Texas-North Dakota stack. The GOP has had quite a few, and the Southern Democrats even had an Oregonian VP in 1860, but never the Dems.

Dole

Kansas is Midwest, not South.

If you count Maryland as being in the South, 1968 and 1972, Spiro Agnew was that state's governor. Lincoln was born in Kentucky.