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Election Archive => 2008 Elections => Topic started by: The love that set me free on May 07, 2008, 11:54:46 pm



Title: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: The love that set me free on May 07, 2008, 11:54:46 pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/us/politics/08clinton.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Wow. In WV too.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Beet on May 08, 2008, 12:06:41 am
It is a university town in the West Virginia panhandle, the most likely place for this to occur. But completely unnecessary. I think this reflects poorly on the university students. If they do not want to hear her speak they do not have to go. I think it is ironic that one sign read "end the dynasty" when the Clintons are no dynasty, multi-generationally speaking, and likely will never be one. It is also ironic given the smooth ride the current President, who comes from a real dynasty, was given on his path to the White House in 2000.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Verily on May 08, 2008, 12:28:02 am
It is also ironic given the smooth ride the current President, who comes from a real dynasty, was given on his path to the White House in 2000.

I recall plenty of jokes about "daddy's little President".


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 12:31:16 am
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/318585/a_change_is_gonna_come

Excerpt from Obama's speech YESTERDAY:

"Obama spoke of dignity and work and the America he loves. He spoke of the America that isn't about game playing or slicing and dicing and name calling or spin and division and distraction"

I'm sure Obama will follow up with these name-callers as he's trying to change politics as usual.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on May 08, 2008, 06:03:35 am
Jefferson county should be (relatively at least) quite good for Obama.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: WalterMitty on May 08, 2008, 07:56:35 am
brtd, you wont be so giddy on tuesday.

go ahead and pull out the 'west virginians are racist' line.  because we all know the only reason a white would dare vote against someone as great as obama is racism.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Sbane on May 08, 2008, 08:56:44 am
brtd, you wont be so giddy on tuesday.

go ahead and pull out the 'west virginians are racist' line.  because we all know the only reason a white would dare vote against someone as great as obama is racism.

So can you explain to me why you hate Obama so much? I can understand that you prefer Hillary but you do realize they have the exact same policy positions. Isnt that what should count? Also I cannot stand when Hillary supporters say they will vote for Mccain. I understand not voting or writing in Hillary's name but why would you support an unending war in Iraq and a very possible one in Iran. Mccain has already made it clear he doesnt give a sh*t about the economy. Maybe you think Hillary would be better than Obama, but would Mccain be better than Obama at handling the economy?


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: agcatter on May 08, 2008, 09:09:39 am
Let em boo.  Hillary will do no worse than 65% next Tuesday.

I always find it amusing that lefty college students are all for academic freedom - unless it's from someone they don't like or agree with.

Most Obama supporters don't say this but there are a disturbing few on this board and among his general supporters in his his campaign who scream racism whenever someone is critical of Senator Obama.  That's not going to go down well in the fall and if that kind of talk gets too loud expect a white backlash.  Not something he needs with a huge demographic he is already weak with.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Brittain33 on May 08, 2008, 09:10:41 am
It is a university town in the West Virginia panhandle, the most likely place for this to occur. But completely unnecessary. I think this reflects poorly on the university students. If they do not want to hear her speak they do not have to go. I think it is ironic that one sign read "end the dynasty" when the Clintons are no dynasty, multi-generationally speaking, and likely will never be one. It is also ironic given the smooth ride the current President, who comes from a real dynasty, was given on his path to the White House in 2000.

I agree with you in part--Hillary Clinton is no George W. Bush, although of course there is something of a dynastic approach going on with people voting for her "remembering the good times of the '90s"--but I have to disagree about your assessment of the future. Chelsea Clinton has been behaving so well for so long that she has to be keeping her options open for elected office in the future. I don't doubt her parents raised to keep a long view of events and to behave like a politician. She's a lot like Libby Pataki.

The Bush daughters, meanwhile, don't appear to be building toward elected politics, and God bless them because they deserve some normality in their lives.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Brittain33 on May 08, 2008, 09:11:56 am

Most Obama supporters don't say this but there are a disturbing few on this board and among his general supporters in his his campaign who scream racism whenever someone is critical of Senator Obama. 

Really? Any time someone is critical of Obama, they'll "scream racism"? Which posters did you have in mind?


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Sbane on May 08, 2008, 09:27:01 am

Most Obama supporters don't say this but there are a disturbing few on this board and among his general supporters in his his campaign who scream racism whenever someone is critical of Senator Obama.  That's not going to go down well in the fall and if that kind of talk gets too loud expect a white backlash.  Not something he needs with a huge demographic he is already weak with.

A Hillary supporter voting for Mccain in the fall seems like racism to me because their ideologies do not mix at all. I am not saying they are but it seems like that way to me because their is no logical reason to vote for Mccain if you believe in Hillary and what she stands for. Now a lot of that right now is bitterness and I understand that but hopefully that will wear off after 6 months of general election fun. I think a small segment of the population(concentrated in appalachia and the south) that voted for Hillary will vote for Mccain in the fall and a lot of them will be doing it to vote against the black guy. Some of these appalachian and blue collar areas where Obama will do bad I would not characterize as racist, rather than BITTER at black people. They feel Black people get coddled while they get screwed. I guess I understand where they come from but hopefully they can get over it by november.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: agcatter on May 08, 2008, 10:15:29 am
I specifically said a "few" posters.  Please don't try to argue with a straight face that there  hasn't been some of that on this board.  I read the board  every day.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on May 08, 2008, 10:28:37 am
I hope the booing gives Hillary more fire to keep moving on.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on May 08, 2008, 10:31:39 am
I love Democrats. They are so open to tolerance, Democracy and freedom to speech and such, yet when you disagree with them, you get ridiculed, booed, heckled, etc .. what a joke of a party. I guess loons need somewhere to go and they formed the Democrat party.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on May 08, 2008, 10:33:08 am
I love Democrats. They are so open to tolerance, Democracy and freedom to speech and such, yet when you disagree with them, you get ridiculed, booed, heckled, etc .. what a joke of a party. I guess loons need somewhere to go and they formed the Democrat party.

And a Republican has never booed a  Republican politician before? Get over yourself... while this incident was quite rude, it happens on both sides. It's simply a fact of life.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Joe Republic on May 08, 2008, 10:35:05 am
I hope the booing gives Hillary more fire to keep moving on.

I agree; this is clearly a sign that Democrats want her to move on.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Verily on May 08, 2008, 10:35:46 am
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/318585/a_change_is_gonna_come

Excerpt from Obama's speech YESTERDAY:

"Obama spoke of dignity and work and the America he loves. He spoke of the America that isn't about game playing or slicing and dicing and name calling or spin and division and distraction"

I'm sure Obama will follow up with these name-callers as he's trying to change politics as usual.

Clearly, candidates are responsible for policing every person who might be supporting them and forcing people into line. You're really amazing at grasping at straws to hate Obama for.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: The Mikado on May 08, 2008, 10:36:59 am
I always find it amusing that lefty college students are all for academic freedom - unless it's from someone they don't like or agree with.

Nice stereotyping...I suppose that's why I've gone out of my way to see John Ashcroft, Newt Gingrich (twice), and other prominent Republicans?


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on May 08, 2008, 10:40:29 am
I always find it amusing that lefty college students are all for academic freedom - unless it's from someone they don't like or agree with.

Nice stereotyping...I suppose that's why I've gone out of my way to see John Ashcroft, Newt Gingrich (twice), and other prominent Republicans?

Congratulations. I went to see Ron Paul, Elizabeth Edwards, Barack Obama, and Zell Miller speak. That doesn't mean the majority of these so called lefty college students are the same way you are. Most of them do not want their views challenged, or they get really defensive.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on May 08, 2008, 10:40:50 am
I hope the booing gives Hillary more fire to keep moving on.

I agree; this is clearly a sign that Democrats want her to move on.

Since when does the loud minority speak for the rest of the country? Hillary keeps winning, it's clear the country wants her to move on.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: The love that set me free on May 08, 2008, 10:41:46 am
brtd, you wont be so giddy on tuesday.

go ahead and pull out the 'west virginians are racist' line.  because we all know the only reason a white would dare vote against someone as great as obama is racism.

You think I care that much? It's not like WV is going to deny Obama the nomination.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Joe Republic on May 08, 2008, 10:44:23 am
I hope the booing gives Hillary more fire to keep moving on.

I agree; this is clearly a sign that Democrats want her to move on.

Since when does the loud minority speak for the rest of the country? Hillary keeps winning, it's clear the country wants her to move on.

Oh, most definitely.  A rapidly increasing number of people, in fact, want her to move on.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on May 08, 2008, 10:46:18 am
I hope the booing gives Hillary more fire to keep moving on.

I agree; this is clearly a sign that Democrats want her to move on.

Since when does the loud minority speak for the rest of the country? Hillary keeps winning, it's clear the country wants her to move on.

Oh, most definitely.  A rapidly increasing number of people, in fact, want her to move on.

It seems that states that don't have a 33% black population want her to continue on with the race.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: The love that set me free on May 08, 2008, 10:48:56 am
I hope the booing gives Hillary more fire to keep moving on.

I agree; this is clearly a sign that Democrats want her to move on.

Since when does the loud minority speak for the rest of the country? Hillary keeps winning, it's clear the country wants her to move on.

Oh, most definitely.  A rapidly increasing number of people, in fact, want her to move on.

It seems that states that don't have a 33% black population want her to continue on with the race.

You mean like Oregon, South Dakota and Montana?


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: agcatter on May 08, 2008, 10:49:04 am
Well King, you are to be commended then.  Unfortunately, not all lefties on campus are so inclined.  Ann Coulter, John Bolten, and the organizer of the minutemen are examples right off the top of my head who have had their speeches cut short or postponed all together due to disruptions or threats of disruptions.  That's an unfortunate fact.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on May 08, 2008, 10:50:16 am
I hope the booing gives Hillary more fire to keep moving on.

I agree; this is clearly a sign that Democrats want her to move on.

Since when does the loud minority speak for the rest of the country? Hillary keeps winning, it's clear the country wants her to move on.

Oh, most definitely.  A rapidly increasing number of people, in fact, want her to move on.

It seems that states that don't have a 33% black population want her to continue on with the race.

You mean like Oregon, South Dakota and Montana?

They've voted already? Care to let me know the results of these contests?


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: The love that set me free on May 08, 2008, 10:53:48 am
I hope the booing gives Hillary more fire to keep moving on.

I agree; this is clearly a sign that Democrats want her to move on.

Since when does the loud minority speak for the rest of the country? Hillary keeps winning, it's clear the country wants her to move on.

Oh, most definitely.  A rapidly increasing number of people, in fact, want her to move on.

It seems that states that don't have a 33% black population want her to continue on with the race.

You mean like Oregon, South Dakota and Montana?

They've voted already? Care to let me know the results of these contests?

They haven't voted but they clearly aren't going to vote for her. Just go look at the polls.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: The Mikado on May 08, 2008, 10:56:14 am
I hope the booing gives Hillary more fire to keep moving on.

I agree; this is clearly a sign that Democrats want her to move on.

Since when does the loud minority speak for the rest of the country? Hillary keeps winning, it's clear the country wants her to move on.

Oh, most definitely.  A rapidly increasing number of people, in fact, want her to move on.

It seems that states that don't have a 33% black population want her to continue on with the race.

I love it how Clinton supporters have adopted a blatantly racial "the black vote doesn't count" line.  Excuse me, Chris, but there was something called the Voting Rights Act of 1965 that made sure that every American has an equal vote.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Alcon on May 08, 2008, 10:59:05 am
Someone with a red avatar dismissing the effect of a unified minority vote is pretty funny.

Let me remind you that John Kerry lost the white vote by seventeen points.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on May 08, 2008, 11:01:00 am
Someone with a red avatar dismissing the effect of a unified minority vote is pretty funny.

Let me remind you that John Kerry lost the white vote by seventeen points.

And he lost the election.

Is that what we are hoping for from Obama?

What indication has he given that he can court the white vote in non caucus, non-safe Democratic states, non-latte liberal states?


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Joe Republic on May 08, 2008, 11:01:25 am
It seems that states that don't have a 33% black population want her to continue on with the race.

I agree again.  But don't forget, it's not only the states that don't have a 33% black population that want her to carry on, of course.  It's also the states that have primaries instead of caucuses, aren't safely Republican, aren't Illinois, has elected a female governor or congresswoman in the past, aren't "insignificant" (according to the Clinton campaign's definition), and aren't full of college-educated liberals or independents or young people.  Which only leaves Michigan and Florida, I believe, which of course are truly the only states that matter.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Joe Republic on May 08, 2008, 11:02:08 am
What indication has he given that he can court the white vote in non caucus, non-safe Democratic states, non-latte liberal states?

Wisconsin?  Or does that not count?


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on May 08, 2008, 11:04:42 am
What indication has he given that he can court the white vote in non caucus, non-safe Democratic states, non-latte liberal states?

Wisconsin?  Or does that not count?

Wisconsin was at the height of Obamamania before he got vetted and he was getting universally positive coverage from the media. Wrightgate and Bitter-gate erupted since then. His grasp on the Republican and independent vote is all but gone, both of which powered him to his win in Wisconsin. I highly doubt he wins Wisconsin now.



Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 11:08:44 am
I love Democrats. They are so open to tolerance, Democracy and freedom to speech and such, yet when you disagree with them, you get ridiculed, booed, heckled, etc .. what a joke of a party. I guess loons need somewhere to go and they formed the Democrat party.

I've always leaned democrat because I agree with them more on the issues.  But this is sounding more and more accurate every day.  Especially since I have been called a racist repeatedly because I won't vote for Obama.  Then they wonder why so many of us are adamantly crossing over to vote for McCain...  like I really want to put in power a party that is calling me racist just because of who I vote for.  It makes you wonder what policies these political activists will lobby for if they get all their people in power.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 11:11:32 am
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/318585/a_change_is_gonna_come

Excerpt from Obama's speech YESTERDAY:

"Obama spoke of dignity and work and the America he loves. He spoke of the America that isn't about game playing or slicing and dicing and name calling or spin and division and distraction"

I'm sure Obama will follow up with these name-callers as he's trying to change politics as usual.

Clearly, candidates are responsible for policing every person who might be supporting them and forcing people into line. You're really amazing at grasping at straws to hate Obama for.

Wah Wah - Obama cries that the Republicans are mean, when his supporters are by far the most vicious racist people I've ever seen act out in a political campaign.  Anyone who voted for Hillary who doesn't vote for Obama is a Racist or is at least "Bitter" to black people, as not one but now 4 people on this very board have said.  What a joke, no wonder Democrats lose elections every 4 years even when the Republicans totally screw up.  You guys do NOTHING to help your party every time you open your mouth.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Joe Republic on May 08, 2008, 11:12:23 am
What indication has he given that he can court the white vote in non caucus, non-safe Democratic states, non-latte liberal states?

Wisconsin?  Or does that not count?

Wisconsin was at the height of Obamamania before he got vetted and he was getting universally positive coverage from the media. Wrightgate and Bitter-gate erupted since then. His grasp on the Republican and independent vote is all but gone, both of which powered him to his win in Wisconsin. I highly doubt he wins Wisconsin now.

Right, right.  So Wisconsin doesn't count either.

My my, the list of significant states is wearing thin.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: The love that set me free on May 08, 2008, 11:12:56 am
Wow it's amazing that this forum gets flooded with Hillary hacks right AFTER she loses big and becomes truly and undeniably unviable.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 11:14:42 am
Wow it's amazing that this forum gets flooded with Hillary hacks right AFTER she loses big and becomes truly and undeniably unviable.

I'd say the bigger hacks are the ones calling Hillary supporters racist if they dare support McCain, then trumpet that Obama gets 95% margins of black voters.  The Voting Rights Act works both ways.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Alcon on May 08, 2008, 11:15:38 am
Someone with a red avatar dismissing the effect of a unified minority vote is pretty funny.

Let me remind you that John Kerry lost the white vote by seventeen points.

And he lost the election.

Is that what we are hoping for from Obama?

What indication has he given that he can court the white vote in non caucus, non-safe Democratic states, non-latte liberal states?

That's a perfectly valid argument for his general election viability, not his having not really won the primaries.  "It doesn't count because black people voted for him" is not, and that's the one I was responding to.

If the Democratic Party wanted its primary to be representative of swing voters, it should have limited it to independents.

I'd say the bigger hacks are the ones calling Hillary supporters racist if they dare support McCain, then trumpet that Obama gets 95% margins of black voters.  The Voting Rights Act works both ways.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever :P


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: jesmo on May 08, 2008, 11:19:14 am
yo Shrillary hacks, we lost. Get over it. WV and KY are not enough. Obama won, we lost. We are losers, get over it!

Just be prepared for 2012 if Hillary re-launches her campaign, and any other lower level elections for 2008. SHE LOST; get over it please.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Good Grumps With A Gun on May 08, 2008, 11:20:16 am
I'd say the bigger hacks are the ones calling Hillary supporters racist if they dare support McCain, then trumpet that Obama gets 95% margins of black voters.  The Voting Rights Act works both ways.

But I'm not reading that here....or did I miss it?


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 11:24:07 am
I'd say the bigger hacks are the ones calling Hillary supporters racist if they dare support McCain, then trumpet that Obama gets 95% margins of black voters.  The Voting Rights Act works both ways.

But I'm not reading that here....or did I miss it?


Are you serious?  There have literally been 4 people on this board, one in this thread who said that people who voted for Clinton and are now voting for McCain are "Racist" or "Bitter" towards black people.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 11:26:47 am
I'd say the bigger hacks are the ones calling Hillary supporters racist if they dare support McCain, then trumpet that Obama gets 95% margins of black voters.  The Voting Rights Act works both ways.

But I'm not reading that here....or did I miss it?


here you go:

sbane
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Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Reply #10 on: Today at 10:27:01 am    
Reply with quote Ignore
Quote from: agcatter on Today at 10:09:39 am

"A Hillary supporter voting for Mccain in the fall seems like racism to me because their ideologies do not mix at all. I am not saying they are but it seems like that way to me because their is no logical reason to vote for Mccain if you believe in Hillary and what she stands for. Now a lot of that right now is bitterness and I understand that but hopefully that will wear off after 6 months of general election fun. I think a small segment of the population(concentrated in appalachia and the south) that voted for Hillary will vote for Mccain in the fall and a lot of them will be doing it to vote against the black guy. Some of these appalachian and blue collar areas where Obama will do bad I would not characterize as racist, rather than BITTER at black people. They feel Black people get coddled while they get screwed. I guess I understand where they come from but hopefully they can get over it by november."
   Report to moderator 


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Sbane on May 08, 2008, 11:41:51 am
I'd say the bigger hacks are the ones calling Hillary supporters racist if they dare support McCain, then trumpet that Obama gets 95% margins of black voters.  The Voting Rights Act works both ways.

But I'm not reading that here....or did I miss it?


Are you serious?  There have literally been 4 people on this board, one in this thread who said that people who voted for Clinton and are now voting for McCain are "Racist" or "Bitter" towards black people.

Can you explain to me why a liberal who voted for Clinton and believes in everything she says would vote for Mccain? What policies do these two share any resemblance on, which is also not shared by Obama. Obama and Clinton have the same damn policies which is the reason why we had the most stupid primaries ever. No issues were discussed, just personalities. I for one would vote for Clinton in a heartbeat if she were the chosen nominee, so they why wont Clinton supporters vote for Obama?  All I was saying was that a minority of people will vote for Mccain just to vote against the black guy. If you disagree with me there you need to go back and reread your US history book.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 11:48:11 am
I'd say the bigger hacks are the ones calling Hillary supporters racist if they dare support McCain, then trumpet that Obama gets 95% margins of black voters.  The Voting Rights Act works both ways.

But I'm not reading that here....or did I miss it?


Are you serious?  There have literally been 4 people on this board, one in this thread who said that people who voted for Clinton and are now voting for McCain are "Racist" or "Bitter" towards black people.

Can you explain to me why a liberal who voted for Clinton and believes in everything she says would vote for Mccain? What policies do these two share any resemblance on, which is also not shared by Obama. Obama and Clinton have the same damn policies which is the reason why we had the most stupid primaries ever. No issues were discussed, just personalities. I for one would vote for Clinton in a heartbeat if she were the chosen nominee, so they why wont Clinton supporters vote for Obama?  All I was saying was that a minority of people will vote for Mccain just to vote against the black guy. If you disagree with me there you need to go back and reread your US history book.

Why explain, it's obvious that I'm racist because I'm supporting McCain?  BTW - who says everyone that voted for Clinton is a liberal?  I consider myself moderate.  I typically vote Democrat because they have tended to be the more moderate party over the last few years.  I'll give you one big issue where Clinton looks closer to McCain - Taxes.  Obama has said in the past he would raise taxes on people making over $150,000 a year.  Clinton puts the number higher, anywhere from $200,000 to $250,000 or so.  For those of us that live in a high cost of living city that is a very important distinction.  If you truly support Obama, why would you make these outrageous claims?  The character of supporters can really impact a candidate's campaign.    All of the Obama supporters crying racism are already causing a backlash, see here: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080416084947AAPtddu

Believe it or not, people don't like to be called racist and take such charges very seriously.  Maybe playing racial politics in the Democratic Primary will help you but this is going to be horrendous for your candidate in the Fall when you guys start calling people racist.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Good Grumps With A Gun on May 08, 2008, 11:56:35 am
I'd say the bigger hacks are the ones calling Hillary supporters racist if they dare support McCain, then trumpet that Obama gets 95% margins of black voters.  The Voting Rights Act works both ways.

But I'm not reading that here....or did I miss it?


Are you serious?  There have literally been 4 people on this board, one in this thread who said that people who voted for Clinton and are now voting for McCain are "Racist" or "Bitter" towards black people.

Ok, I didnt see it and I don't agree with it.  If BRTD was one of them, then knock it down to 3 people. Thanks


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 12:13:56 pm
I'd say the bigger hacks are the ones calling Hillary supporters racist if they dare support McCain, then trumpet that Obama gets 95% margins of black voters.  The Voting Rights Act works both ways.

But I'm not reading that here....or did I miss it?


Are you serious?  There have literally been 4 people on this board, one in this thread who said that people who voted for Clinton and are now voting for McCain are "Racist" or "Bitter" towards black people.

Ok, I didnt see it and I don't agree with it.  If BRTD was one of them, then knock it down to 3 people. Thanks

Not sure who this BRTD person is that everyone is referring to, but even still.  Doesn't it disturb you that 3 people on this board alone are calling anyone who disagrees with them a racist?  I thought this whole movement was supposed to bring change to Washington.  This doesn't seem like good change.  I realize this sounds like Republican talking points but it's hard not to agree with Republicans on this.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Alcon on May 08, 2008, 12:16:45 pm
Not sure who this BRTD person is that everyone is referring to, but even still.  Doesn't it disturb you that 3 people on this board alone are calling anyone who disagrees with them a racist?

Usually I'm only disturbed by surprising things.  It's annoying.

I thought this whole movement was supposed to bring change to Washington.  This doesn't seem like good change.  I realize this sounds like Republican talking points but it's hard not to agree with Republicans on this.

You mean to tell me that you are shocked, just shocked, that there are jackasses who support Obama?  And, because jackasses support Obama, clearly jackasses are representative of the real Obama, and thus all that "change" stuff is bunk?

The "change" stuff is bunk because it's good-natured rhetoric, or hyperbole.  The "change" stuff isn't bunk because some guy on the Internet who supports Obama was mean to you or called you a racist.  That's just rationalized "I hate the guy, and the more I look at people around him, the more I'm sure I'm right" stuff.  You're too smart for that.

The Atlantic once had a funny half-political article about how, when they estimate that there are 20,000 geese in Chicago, people will scramble to find a way to convince themselves that this is a reasonable number.  Chicago is near water, and has parks -- lotsa geese.  They will very rarely stop and think, "hey, shouldn't the geese be in Florida this time of year?"  It's the same kind of regress.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Joe Republic on May 08, 2008, 12:20:36 pm
Meanwhile, in Bizarro World, where Hillary Clinton looks set to clinch the nomination over an ailing Barack Obama:

Believe it or not, people don't like to be called sexist and take such charges very seriously.  Maybe playing gender politics in the Democratic Primary will help you but this is going to be horrendous for your candidate in the Fall when you guys start calling people sexist.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 12:23:02 pm
Not sure who this BRTD person is that everyone is referring to, but even still.  Doesn't it disturb you that 3 people on this board alone are calling anyone who disagrees with them a racist?

Usually I'm only disturbed by surprising things.  It's annoying.

I thought this whole movement was supposed to bring change to Washington.  This doesn't seem like good change.  I realize this sounds like Republican talking points but it's hard not to agree with Republicans on this.

You mean to tell me that you are shocked, just shocked, that there are jackasses who support Obama?  And, because jackasses support Obama, clearly jackasses are representative of the real Obama, and thus all that "change" stuff is bunk?

The "change" stuff is bunk because it's good-natured rhetoric, or hyperbole.  The "change" stuff isn't bunk because some guy on the Internet who supports Obama was mean to you or called you a racist.  That's just rationalized "I hate the guy, I hate everyone around him" stuff.  You're too smart for that.

No, I am shocked that the people who call others Racist are becoming less of a vocal minority and more in the mainstream of his support.  I remember a few months ago the Obama rallies were uplifting and people clapped to pay respect to Clinton and Edwards.  Now they've started booing Clinton and I've heard several speeches where Obama supporters at the rally shouted obscenities when Clinton was mentioned.  Yeah the campaign has become more heated but the Supporters fainting at rallies and obsessively calling anyone who disagrees with them a Racist are a major turn off.  Maybe you've always been on the liberal side of issues and haven't really had to deal with this.  That's the case for me in the past, but when you're repeatedly called a Racist for not supporting Obama it really makes you think that all the Republicans that have complained for years about the Al Sharpton's and Jesse Jackson's of the World, might have been on to something.  The Obama movement has definitely single-handedly caused me to shift my political alignment *somewhat.*  Oh and I fully expect to receive a string of messages from some Obama supporters saying "Good Riddance, Racist" pretty soon.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Sbane on May 08, 2008, 12:24:17 pm
I'd say the bigger hacks are the ones calling Hillary supporters racist if they dare support McCain, then trumpet that Obama gets 95% margins of black voters.  The Voting Rights Act works both ways.

But I'm not reading that here....or did I miss it?


Are you serious?  There have literally been 4 people on this board, one in this thread who said that people who voted for Clinton and are now voting for McCain are "Racist" or "Bitter" towards black people.

Can you explain to me why a liberal who voted for Clinton and believes in everything she says would vote for Mccain? What policies do these two share any resemblance on, which is also not shared by Obama. Obama and Clinton have the same damn policies which is the reason why we had the most stupid primaries ever. No issues were discussed, just personalities. I for one would vote for Clinton in a heartbeat if she were the chosen nominee, so they why wont Clinton supporters vote for Obama?  All I was saying was that a minority of people will vote for Mccain just to vote against the black guy. If you disagree with me there you need to go back and reread your US history book.

Why explain, it's obvious that I'm racist because I'm supporting McCain?  BTW - who says everyone that voted for Clinton is a liberal?  I consider myself moderate.  I typically vote Democrat because they have tended to be the more moderate party over the last few years.  I'll give you one big issue where Clinton looks closer to McCain - Taxes.  Obama has said in the past he would raise taxes on people making over $150,000 a year.  Clinton puts the number higher, anywhere from $200,000 to $250,000 or so.  For those of us that live in a high cost of living city that is a very important distinction.  If you truly support Obama, why would you make these outrageous claims?  The character of supporters can really impact a candidate's campaign.    All of the Obama supporters crying racism are already causing a backlash, see here: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080416084947AAPtddu

Believe it or not, people don't like to be called racist and take such charges very seriously.  Maybe playing racial politics in the Democratic Primary will help you but this is going to be horrendous for your candidate in the Fall when you guys start calling people racist.

Ahh but I never called you racist, I am just trying to figure out where Clinton supporters are coming from. Now I am sorry if I offended you when I said blue collar workers were bitter towards blacks, but there certainly is a misunderstanding. Most of this occurs from the concept of white privilege. The poorer whites who support Clinton never had that privilege and rightfully get angry when they are told that. To them Obama is the symbol of that, a Black man taking away an opportunity from a white just because they are black. I understand that resentment as I am a Brahmin from India. Although the caste system was wrong, should Brahmin children not get the same opportunity today as lower caste kids? It is a similar situation here and a reason why I am against affirmative action. Now you said you disagree with Obama on taxes and it turns out we agree. My parents live in the bay area and to live comfortably here you have to have a family income in excess of 100k. Obama's taxes would affect my family and I hope he reconsiders it a bit. I think creating new higher tax categories out of people making millions makes more sense. Those making millions dont need all that money and they can sure as hell help their countrymen. I do feel bad for those who get caught in these tax margins though. I think creating more tax brackets is a possible solution to this problem. Now I do not know how you feel about foreign policy but that is the reason why I supported Obama from the start and the reason why I could not support Mccain. The Iraq war is one of the worst foreign policy decision ever made and it is not only hurting our image but also our economy. In the end it all comes down to that because a war is not worth fighting if we do not even have a country left to fight for.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 12:24:23 pm
Meanwhile, in Bizarro World, where Hillary Clinton looks set to clinch the nomination over an ailing Barack Obama:

Believe it or not, people don't like to be called sexist and take such charges very seriously.  Maybe playing gender politics in the Democratic Primary will help you but this is going to be horrendous for your candidate in the Fall when you guys start calling people sexist.

If this was real, you'd have an excellent point.  But it's not.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Verily on May 08, 2008, 12:29:07 pm
Meanwhile, in Bizarro World, where Hillary Clinton looks set to clinch the nomination over an ailing Barack Obama:

Believe it or not, people don't like to be called sexist and take such charges very seriously.  Maybe playing gender politics in the Democratic Primary will help you but this is going to be horrendous for your candidate in the Fall when you guys start calling people sexist.

If this was real, you'd have an excellent point.  But it's not.  Thanks.

http://taylormarsh.com/

If you think it wouldn't be happening...


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 12:30:50 pm
I'd say the bigger hacks are the ones calling Hillary supporters racist if they dare support McCain, then trumpet that Obama gets 95% margins of black voters.  The Voting Rights Act works both ways.

But I'm not reading that here....or did I miss it?


Are you serious?  There have literally been 4 people on this board, one in this thread who said that people who voted for Clinton and are now voting for McCain are "Racist" or "Bitter" towards black people.

Can you explain to me why a liberal who voted for Clinton and believes in everything she says would vote for Mccain? What policies do these two share any resemblance on, which is also not shared by Obama. Obama and Clinton have the same damn policies which is the reason why we had the most stupid primaries ever. No issues were discussed, just personalities. I for one would vote for Clinton in a heartbeat if she were the chosen nominee, so they why wont Clinton supporters vote for Obama?  All I was saying was that a minority of people will vote for Mccain just to vote against the black guy. If you disagree with me there you need to go back and reread your US history book.

Why explain, it's obvious that I'm racist because I'm supporting McCain?  BTW - who says everyone that voted for Clinton is a liberal?  I consider myself moderate.  I typically vote Democrat because they have tended to be the more moderate party over the last few years.  I'll give you one big issue where Clinton looks closer to McCain - Taxes.  Obama has said in the past he would raise taxes on people making over $150,000 a year.  Clinton puts the number higher, anywhere from $200,000 to $250,000 or so.  For those of us that live in a high cost of living city that is a very important distinction.  If you truly support Obama, why would you make these outrageous claims?  The character of supporters can really impact a candidate's campaign.    All of the Obama supporters crying racism are already causing a backlash, see here: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080416084947AAPtddu

Believe it or not, people don't like to be called racist and take such charges very seriously.  Maybe playing racial politics in the Democratic Primary will help you but this is going to be horrendous for your candidate in the Fall when you guys start calling people racist.

Ahh but I never called you racist, I am just trying to figure out where Clinton supporters are coming from. Now I am sorry if I offended you when I said blue collar workers were bitter towards blacks, but there certainly is a misunderstanding. Most of this occurs from the concept of white privilege. The poorer whites who support Clinton never had that privilege and rightfully get angry when they are told that. To them Obama is the symbol of that, a Black man taking away an opportunity from a white just because they are black. I understand that resentment as I am a Brahmin from India. Although the caste system was wrong, should Brahmin children not get the same opportunity today as lower caste kids? It is a similar situation here and a reason why I am against affirmative action. Now you said you disagree with Obama on taxes and it turns out we agree. My parents live in the bay area and to live comfortably here you have to have a family income in excess of 100k. Obama's taxes would affect my family and I hope he reconsiders it a bit. I think creating new higher tax categories out of people making millions makes more sense. Those making millions dont need all that money and they can sure as hell help their countrymen. I do feel bad for those who get caught in these tax margins though. I think creating more tax brackets is a possible solution to this problem. Now I do not know how you feel about foreign policy but that is the reason why I supported Obama from the start and the reason why I could not support Mccain. The Iraq war is one of the worst foreign policy decision ever made and it is not only hurting our image but also our economy. In the end it all comes down to that because a war is not worth fighting if we do not even have a country left to fight for.

Thanks for this thoughtful post.  To be honest, your comment wasn't particularly bad compared to many on some other threads.  I only cut and pasted it because it was more convenient than searching for the other ones.

The funny thing is that we probably agree nearly entirely on the issues.  For me I just look at it like this.  We're already in Iraq.  McCain won't have the political capital to do another war, his Iran comments notwithstanding.  He won't have the votes in Congress to push through uber-conservative Judges.   But Obama would have the votes in Congress to push through big tax hikes.  I am graduating from law school with $150,000 of debt.  Even though I have a job lined up that pays well over 6 figures, the thought of having such a huge debt is daunting, and I think about it every single day.  I can't afford to pay an extra $20,000 in taxes under the plan's Obama has floated out there.  So on a personal level, Hillary would have been perfect for me.  Good Judges, Good Tax Policy.  But when it comes down to choosing between Obama and McCain, even though I have a gut feeling to always vote Democrat, when I analyze what they'll do for me, McCain wins hands down.  Strategically it's the right move.  Besides, I sort of like it when Congress and the Executive Branch are split, neither party gets too extreme. That's a large part of why the Republicans screwed up so bad with their out of control spending in the first place.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 12:32:53 pm
Meanwhile, in Bizarro World, where Hillary Clinton looks set to clinch the nomination over an ailing Barack Obama:

Believe it or not, people don't like to be called sexist and take such charges very seriously.  Maybe playing gender politics in the Democratic Primary will help you but this is going to be horrendous for your candidate in the Fall when you guys start calling people sexist.

If this was real, you'd have an excellent point.  But it's not.  Thanks.

http://taylormarsh.com/

If you think it wouldn't be happening...

I'm not sure what that shows.  Most of that blog was devoted to criticizing the harassing messages they're receiving from Obama supporters.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Joe Republic on May 08, 2008, 12:33:43 pm
Meanwhile, in Bizarro World, where Hillary Clinton looks set to clinch the nomination over an ailing Barack Obama:

Believe it or not, people don't like to be called sexist and take such charges very seriously.  Maybe playing gender politics in the Democratic Primary will help you but this is going to be horrendous for your candidate in the Fall when you guys start calling people sexist.

If this was real, you'd have an excellent point.  But it's not.  Thanks.

I just enjoy pointing out other people's candid double standards, while poking fun at partisans at the same time.  You may continue.  :)


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Verily on May 08, 2008, 12:35:03 pm
Meanwhile, in Bizarro World, where Hillary Clinton looks set to clinch the nomination over an ailing Barack Obama:

Believe it or not, people don't like to be called sexist and take such charges very seriously.  Maybe playing gender politics in the Democratic Primary will help you but this is going to be horrendous for your candidate in the Fall when you guys start calling people sexist.

If this was real, you'd have an excellent point.  But it's not.  Thanks.

http://taylormarsh.com/

If you think it wouldn't be happening...

I'm not sure what that shows.  Most of that blog was devoted to criticizing the harassing messages they're receiving from Obama supporters.

Read Taylor Marsh again. See the constant references to the media "keeping women down", and how terrible people were for not letting Clinton "be a woman". Taylor Marsh is already telling everyone that it's sexism!


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 12:41:01 pm
Meanwhile, in Bizarro World, where Hillary Clinton looks set to clinch the nomination over an ailing Barack Obama:

Believe it or not, people don't like to be called sexist and take such charges very seriously.  Maybe playing gender politics in the Democratic Primary will help you but this is going to be horrendous for your candidate in the Fall when you guys start calling people sexist.

If this was real, you'd have an excellent point.  But it's not.  Thanks.

http://taylormarsh.com/

If you think it wouldn't be happening...

I'm not sure what that shows.  Most of that blog was devoted to criticizing the harassing messages they're receiving from Obama supporters.

Read Taylor Marsh again. See the constant references to the media "keeping women down", and how terrible people were for not letting Clinton "be a woman". Taylor Marsh is already telling everyone that it's sexism!

Well I don't agree with that at all.  I think the media (particularly MSNBC) has had a huge bias for Obama, but I don't think it's because Clinton was a woman.  They just wanted Obama for whatever reason.  So again, I don't agree with her if that's what she's saying. 

My point was more about the followers though.  I have talked to a lot of partisan Hillary supporters, especially when I liked Obama more, and none of them called me a sexist for not supporting Hillary.  I've now talked to a lot of partisan Obama supporters, now that I like Hillary more.  A huge percentage of the Obama people I've talked to have thrown out the race card, I'd say at least 30%.  If this is what they are telling me in blog comments and to my face, I can only imagine what they say to each other in private.   It's a huge turn off.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Verily on May 08, 2008, 12:44:55 pm
But look, I just gave you a Clinton supporter, and a very vocal one, who calls those who dislike Clinton sexists. You may not have experienced it because you supported her, but I certainly have. I also don't appreciate be called naive, having "white guilt", or any of the other slurs commonly thrown by Clinton backers. Ultimately, though, it's irrelevant to the candidates themselves.

I don't like Clinton for a very different reason, because I think she is in attitude and style the most similar to Bush--unwilling to consider any opinions but her own--and I think that's dangerous.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 12:50:36 pm
But look, I just gave you a Clinton supporter, and a very vocal one, who calls those who dislike Clinton sexists. You may not have experienced it because you supported her, but I certainly have. I also don't appreciate be called naive, having "white guilt", or any of the other slurs commonly thrown by Clinton backers. Ultimately, though, it's irrelevant to the candidates themselves.

I don't like Clinton for a very different reason, because I think she is in attitude and style the most similar to Bush--unwilling to consider any opinions but her own--and I think that's dangerous.

I'll be the first to call her comments wrong.  Not many Obama supporters are standing up and calling out the people who are calling McCain backers racist.

Again, I supported Obama for about a month and a half, even as the primary was starting to get very heated.  I was never personally called a sexist by a lay supporter I talked to online or in person.  I have now supported Hillary for about 2 months and I've probably talked to about 40-50 Obama Supported (4 in the last day on this website) who have either called me personally a racist or EVERYONE who supported Clinton who is now supporting McCain a racist.

The difference between the mass of supporters could not be any more clear.  Ironically though, the vast majority of the Obama supporters playing the race card have been white.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Sbane on May 08, 2008, 01:08:07 pm
I'd say the bigger hacks are the ones calling Hillary supporters racist if they dare support McCain, then trumpet that Obama gets 95% margins of black voters.  The Voting Rights Act works both ways.

But I'm not reading that here....or did I miss it?


Are you serious?  There have literally been 4 people on this board, one in this thread who said that people who voted for Clinton and are now voting for McCain are "Racist" or "Bitter" towards black people.

Can you explain to me why a liberal who voted for Clinton and believes in everything she says would vote for Mccain? What policies do these two share any resemblance on, which is also not shared by Obama. Obama and Clinton have the same damn policies which is the reason why we had the most stupid primaries ever. No issues were discussed, just personalities. I for one would vote for Clinton in a heartbeat if she were the chosen nominee, so they why wont Clinton supporters vote for Obama?  All I was saying was that a minority of people will vote for Mccain just to vote against the black guy. If you disagree with me there you need to go back and reread your US history book.

Why explain, it's obvious that I'm racist because I'm supporting McCain?  BTW - who says everyone that voted for Clinton is a liberal?  I consider myself moderate.  I typically vote Democrat because they have tended to be the more moderate party over the last few years.  I'll give you one big issue where Clinton looks closer to McCain - Taxes.  Obama has said in the past he would raise taxes on people making over $150,000 a year.  Clinton puts the number higher, anywhere from $200,000 to $250,000 or so.  For those of us that live in a high cost of living city that is a very important distinction.  If you truly support Obama, why would you make these outrageous claims?  The character of supporters can really impact a candidate's campaign.    All of the Obama supporters crying racism are already causing a backlash, see here: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080416084947AAPtddu

Believe it or not, people don't like to be called racist and take such charges very seriously.  Maybe playing racial politics in the Democratic Primary will help you but this is going to be horrendous for your candidate in the Fall when you guys start calling people racist.

Ahh but I never called you racist, I am just trying to figure out where Clinton supporters are coming from. Now I am sorry if I offended you when I said blue collar workers were bitter towards blacks, but there certainly is a misunderstanding. Most of this occurs from the concept of white privilege. The poorer whites who support Clinton never had that privilege and rightfully get angry when they are told that. To them Obama is the symbol of that, a Black man taking away an opportunity from a white just because they are black. I understand that resentment as I am a Brahmin from India. Although the caste system was wrong, should Brahmin children not get the same opportunity today as lower caste kids? It is a similar situation here and a reason why I am against affirmative action. Now you said you disagree with Obama on taxes and it turns out we agree. My parents live in the bay area and to live comfortably here you have to have a family income in excess of 100k. Obama's taxes would affect my family and I hope he reconsiders it a bit. I think creating new higher tax categories out of people making millions makes more sense. Those making millions dont need all that money and they can sure as hell help their countrymen. I do feel bad for those who get caught in these tax margins though. I think creating more tax brackets is a possible solution to this problem. Now I do not know how you feel about foreign policy but that is the reason why I supported Obama from the start and the reason why I could not support Mccain. The Iraq war is one of the worst foreign policy decision ever made and it is not only hurting our image but also our economy. In the end it all comes down to that because a war is not worth fighting if we do not even have a country left to fight for.

Thanks for this thoughtful post.  To be honest, your comment wasn't particularly bad compared to many on some other threads.  I only cut and pasted it because it was more convenient than searching for the other ones.

The funny thing is that we probably agree nearly entirely on the issues.  For me I just look at it like this.  We're already in Iraq.  McCain won't have the political capital to do another war, his Iran comments notwithstanding.  He won't have the votes in Congress to push through uber-conservative Judges.   But Obama would have the votes in Congress to push through big tax hikes.  I am graduating from law school with $150,000 of debt.  Even though I have a job lined up that pays well over 6 figures, the thought of having such a huge debt is daunting, and I think about it every single day.  I can't afford to pay an extra $20,000 in taxes under the plan's Obama has floated out there.  So on a personal level, Hillary would have been perfect for me.  Good Judges, Good Tax Policy.  But when it comes down to choosing between Obama and McCain, even though I have a gut feeling to always vote Democrat, when I analyze what they'll do for me, McCain wins hands down.  Strategically it's the right move.  Besides, I sort of like it when Congress and the Executive Branch are split, neither party gets too extreme. That's a large part of why the Republicans screwed up so bad with their out of control spending in the first place.

I think what I want is immediate start of withdrawl from Iraq. Maybe changing the roles that our military plays will change the conditions? I dont think they should all come back of course but lets get the ball rolling the other direction and see what happens. We of course have the option of going in there full strength if that is what is required. Ulitimately this is a problem not to be solved by the US congress or US army. The Iraqi legislature is the only place where the situation could possibly be resolved. But that is pretty unlikely isnt it? I think we have to somehow get more countries involved in our efforts or else show them the consequences. Obama could possibly do this but Mccain sure as hell wont.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Verily on May 08, 2008, 01:09:41 pm
But look, I just gave you a Clinton supporter, and a very vocal one, who calls those who dislike Clinton sexists. You may not have experienced it because you supported her, but I certainly have. I also don't appreciate be called naive, having "white guilt", or any of the other slurs commonly thrown by Clinton backers. Ultimately, though, it's irrelevant to the candidates themselves.

I don't like Clinton for a very different reason, because I think she is in attitude and style the most similar to Bush--unwilling to consider any opinions but her own--and I think that's dangerous.

I'll be the first to call her comments wrong.  Not many Obama supporters are standing up and calling out the people who are calling McCain backers racist.

Again, I supported Obama for about a month and a half, even as the primary was starting to get very heated.  I was never personally called a sexist by a lay supporter I talked to online or in person.  I have now supported Hillary for about 2 months and I've probably talked to about 40-50 Obama Supported (4 in the last day on this website) who have either called me personally a racist or EVERYONE who supported Clinton who is now supporting McCain a racist.

The difference between the mass of supporters could not be any more clear.  Ironically though, the vast majority of the Obama supporters playing the race card have been white.

Fine, you're intent on being the victim. The fact that some Obama supporters heckled you shouldn't have anything to do with your vote. They were being stupid; there are stupid people everywhere. I often hear Clinton supporters tell me that my own support, or those of other Obama supporters, is arbitrary and based on faulty reasoning--that sounds like an awfully arbitrary decision on your part.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 01:39:03 pm
But look, I just gave you a Clinton supporter, and a very vocal one, who calls those who dislike Clinton sexists. You may not have experienced it because you supported her, but I certainly have. I also don't appreciate be called naive, having "white guilt", or any of the other slurs commonly thrown by Clinton backers. Ultimately, though, it's irrelevant to the candidates themselves.

I don't like Clinton for a very different reason, because I think she is in attitude and style the most similar to Bush--unwilling to consider any opinions but her own--and I think that's dangerous.

I'll be the first to call her comments wrong.  Not many Obama supporters are standing up and calling out the people who are calling McCain backers racist.

Again, I supported Obama for about a month and a half, even as the primary was starting to get very heated.  I was never personally called a sexist by a lay supporter I talked to online or in person.  I have now supported Hillary for about 2 months and I've probably talked to about 40-50 Obama Supported (4 in the last day on this website) who have either called me personally a racist or EVERYONE who supported Clinton who is now supporting McCain a racist.

The difference between the mass of supporters could not be any more clear.  Ironically though, the vast majority of the Obama supporters playing the race card have been white.

Fine, you're intent on being the victim. The fact that some Obama supporters heckled you shouldn't have anything to do with your vote. They were being stupid; there are stupid people everywhere. I often hear Clinton supporters tell me that my own support, or those of other Obama supporters, is arbitrary and based on faulty reasoning--that sounds like an awfully arbitrary decision on your part.

LOL - I could care less about some victim role.  That's the role Obama supporters who cry racism every 3 seconds play.  Well that's when they're out of their manic state and not harassing people.  It's not arbitrary to be completely turned off by the Obama "movement" and the people that are part of it and to say, no I don't want anything to do with this, they're hijacking the party I usually vote for.  That's not arbitrary at all.  Aimlessly following one political party is arbitrary and stupid, which is why I refuse to do it if I think the party I prefer has a terrible candidate and a terrible "movement."  There is nothing wrong with that.  If everyone voted for the same party year after year then political control would never change.  Just because the Republicans did this a few years ago, doesn't mean that I am going to blindly follow the Democrats to even things out.  As to my reasoning, well I have cited specific issues in this thread where McCain and Obama disagree, so my reasoning is only based in small part on wanting to stop the "Obama movement."


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Brittain33 on May 08, 2008, 03:19:34 pm
LOL - I could care less about some victim role. 

Sorry, but anyone who is dragging out this discussion by going on and on about how offended they are by random and fairly anonymous Obama supporters needs to face facts. Politics has lots of people saying stupid and mean things. What it does not have is one side full of good people, all with integrity, and another side full of bad, mean people.

If you're only pretending to be offended, that's even worse than actually getting upset.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 03:23:39 pm
LOL - I could care less about some victim role. 

Sorry, but anyone who is dragging out this discussion by going on and on about how offended they are by random and fairly anonymous Obama supporters needs to face facts. Politics has lots of people saying stupid and mean things. What it does not have is one side full of good people, all with integrity, and another side full of bad, mean people.

If you're only pretending to be offended, that's even worse than actually getting upset.

One side has been a lot more rampant with the racist vitriol.  Sorry, but I'm not dragging out this discussion, I've been asked repeatedly why I don't like Obama and I happened to cite his supporters as one reason why.  People have made me explain that so I did.  Yes, I think the racists on this board are offensive, sorry if that upsets you that I don't support racism.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: zombones on May 08, 2008, 03:26:32 pm
Disliking a politician because of their supporters is a bad reason to dislike a politician.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Joe Republic on May 08, 2008, 03:28:16 pm
Disliking a politician because of their supporters is a bad reason to dislike a politician.

Oh I don't know about that.  Ron Paul used to appeal to me a little... until I began to encounter his creepy cabal of supporters, on the internet mostly (where else?).  Sure, that's not fair on Paul, but it was still a factor for me.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 03:32:51 pm
Disliking a politician because of their supporters is a bad reason to dislike a politician.

No it isn't.  Because that politician has to pay back his supporters in some way, the same way special interest groups are paid back.  I really don't want to support a candidacy that is fueled by reverse racism.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Brittain33 on May 08, 2008, 03:34:13 pm
One side has been a lot more rampant with the racist vitriol.  Sorry, but I'm not dragging out this discussion, I've been asked repeatedly why I don't like Obama and I happened to cite his supporters as one reason why.  People have made me explain that so I did.  Yes, I think the racists on this board are offensive, sorry if that upsets you that I don't support racism.

So if I find racists who are supporting McCain, you'll abandon him? Cool. The Internet's a big place, it should take me about five minutes to find a Freeper chuckling over the Heineken looter photo who talks about voting for McCain. If you give up supporting McCain, I'll admire your principle.

Try Ben Domenech at Red State, who dismissed Coretta Scott King as a communist and said no one should have cared about her funeral. He's a Republican. Are you offended?


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Brittain33 on May 08, 2008, 03:34:55 pm
No it isn't.  Because that politician has to pay back his supporters in some way, the same way special interest groups are paid back. 

How do you believe the Obama campaign is going to pay back random Internet posters to reward them for their posts?


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 03:59:56 pm
One side has been a lot more rampant with the racist vitriol.  Sorry, but I'm not dragging out this discussion, I've been asked repeatedly why I don't like Obama and I happened to cite his supporters as one reason why.  People have made me explain that so I did.  Yes, I think the racists on this board are offensive, sorry if that upsets you that I don't support racism.

So if I find racists who are supporting McCain, you'll abandon him? Cool. The Internet's a big place, it should take me about five minutes to find a Freeper chuckling over the Heineken looter photo who talks about voting for McCain. If you give up supporting McCain, I'll admire your principle.

Try Ben Domenech at Red State, who dismissed Coretta Scott King as a communist and said no one should have cared about her funeral. He's a Republican. Are you offended?

Fortunately, it's not PC for Anti-Black Racism to run rampant online and in person.  Unfortunately, it's totally PC for Obama supporters to spread racism wherever they see fit. 


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Sbane on May 08, 2008, 05:02:07 pm
One side has been a lot more rampant with the racist vitriol.  Sorry, but I'm not dragging out this discussion, I've been asked repeatedly why I don't like Obama and I happened to cite his supporters as one reason why.  People have made me explain that so I did.  Yes, I think the racists on this board are offensive, sorry if that upsets you that I don't support racism.

So if I find racists who are supporting McCain, you'll abandon him? Cool. The Internet's a big place, it should take me about five minutes to find a Freeper chuckling over the Heineken looter photo who talks about voting for McCain. If you give up supporting McCain, I'll admire your principle.

Try Ben Domenech at Red State, who dismissed Coretta Scott King as a communist and said no one should have cared about her funeral. He's a Republican. Are you offended?

Fortunately, it's not PC for Anti-Black Racism to run rampant online and in person.  Unfortunately, it's totally PC for Obama supporters to spread racism wherever they see fit. 

You just dont seem to get the difference between Black people voting FOR Obama and white people voting against the black guy for racial reasons. Minorities vote in blocs not just in America but around the whole world and nobody calls it racism. It is them trying to gain some relevance in the political system. Whites always get to decide who is president. If Whites were to vote 90% for Hillary we would not be having this conversation as she would have won and there would have been nothing abnormal with White people not voting for a black candidate as it has happened before.( eg. Jesse Jackson and such) In truth White americans were just waiting for an acceptable black candidate and many seem to have found it in Obama. Do not try and dismiss Obama as the black candidate because he would not be where he is without strong white support.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Brittain33 on May 08, 2008, 05:09:26 pm

You just dont seem to get the difference between Black people voting FOR Obama and white people voting against the black guy for racial reasons.

I said it elsewhere, I'll say it again.

Black people vote for black and white candidates, predominantly for white candidates. In the last, oh, ALL general elections where they were able to vote, they have voted for white candidates.

White people have voted for white candidates. They rarely get the opportunity to do otherwise, and unlike black voters, they have not established a record of crossing the racial barrier and voting for someone of another race.

For a black voter to have voted for white candidates all his or her life to be called a racist for voting for a black candidate is obscene.

To not understand that the dynamics of representation are different for majority and minority communities is something to be worked on.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon on May 08, 2008, 05:19:22 pm
White people have voted for white candidates. They rarely get the opportunity to do otherwise, and unlike black voters, they have not established a record of crossing the racial barrier and voting for someone of another race.

Was Deval Patrick elected only by blacks?  J.C. Watts?  Doug Wilder? 


 
To not understand that the dynamics of representation are different for majority and minority communities is something to be worked on.

To not understand that black people are just as capable of being racist, where given the opportunity, as whites, is something to be worked on.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Verily on May 08, 2008, 05:20:13 pm
White people have voted for white candidates. They rarely get the opportunity to do otherwise, and unlike black voters, they have not established a record of crossing the racial barrier and voting for someone of another race.

Was Deval Patrick elected only by blacks?  J.C. Watts?  Doug Wilder? 

Spurious. Obama gets a huge number of white votes as well.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Brittain33 on May 08, 2008, 05:30:17 pm
White people have voted for white candidates. They rarely get the opportunity to do otherwise, and unlike black voters, they have not established a record of crossing the racial barrier and voting for someone of another race.

Was Deval Patrick elected only by blacks?  J.C. Watts?  Doug Wilder? 

Congratulations, you identified examples that apply to approximately 4% of white American voters and are noteworthy for their exceptionality. Not only that, but you did so without reference to the very many African-American candidates who have run with white electorates--and lost.

Do you seriously want to argue that most white voters are just fine voting for black candidates regardless of race? Have you heard of the Bradley effect?

Quote
To not understand that the dynamics of representation are different for majority and minority communities is something to be worked on.

To not understand that black people are just as capable of being racist, where given the opportunity, as whites, is something to be worked on.

Again, a minority voting for a minority candidate in a winner-takes-all system, when they have consistently voted for members of the majority in other elections, is not racism.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Brittain33 on May 08, 2008, 05:32:51 pm

Spurious. Obama gets a huge number of white votes as well.

Yes, and he's the first African-American candidate to do so consistently, following in the path of many who haven't and many others who knew better to even try, AND it's only in the Democratic primary. He's the exception that proves the rule, which is why it's such an historical event.

And as we've seen, there are plenty of white voters who refuse to vote for him because of race. Huge numbers. It's been assumed by all of us in the "gaming the state" series. How many black voters refuse to vote for white candidates, across the board? Think about that question and how laughable it is--if there was such a person, he couldn't be called a voter, because he would never have voted for President except when Lenora Fulani was running!


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: SomeLawStudent on May 08, 2008, 08:11:13 pm

You just dont seem to get the difference between Black people voting FOR Obama and white people voting against the black guy for racial reasons.

I said it elsewhere, I'll say it again.

Black people vote for black and white candidates, predominantly for white candidates. In the last, oh, ALL general elections where they were able to vote, they have voted for white candidates.

White people have voted for white candidates. They rarely get the opportunity to do otherwise, and unlike black voters, they have not established a record of crossing the racial barrier and voting for someone of another race.

For a black voter to have voted for white candidates all his or her life to be called a racist for voting for a black candidate is obscene.

To not understand that the dynamics of representation are different for majority and minority communities is something to be worked on.

How many majority black congressional districts have white congressmen?  How often do majority black cities like D.C. get a white mayor?  Yeah, when they don't have a choice they vote for the white guy, but often when there is a Black Democrat on the ballot they flock to that candidate in droves in both the primary and the general election.

The "raising the ceiling" argument only goes so far.  Washington, DC has had several black mayors.  Electing one after another is not raising any ceiling, so why do White Democrats never get elected Mayor there?  Is that racially motivated in a racist way?


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Sbane on May 08, 2008, 08:25:51 pm

You just dont seem to get the difference between Black people voting FOR Obama and white people voting against the black guy for racial reasons.

I said it elsewhere, I'll say it again.

Black people vote for black and white candidates, predominantly for white candidates. In the last, oh, ALL general elections where they were able to vote, they have voted for white candidates.

White people have voted for white candidates. They rarely get the opportunity to do otherwise, and unlike black voters, they have not established a record of crossing the racial barrier and voting for someone of another race.

For a black voter to have voted for white candidates all his or her life to be called a racist for voting for a black candidate is obscene.

To not understand that the dynamics of representation are different for majority and minority communities is something to be worked on.

How many majority black congressional districts have white congressmen?  How often do majority black cities like D.C. get a white mayor?  Yeah, when they don't have a choice they vote for the white guy, but often when there is a Black Democrat on the ballot they flock to that candidate in droves in both the primary and the general election.

The "raising the ceiling" argument only goes so far.  Washington, DC has had several black mayors.  Electing one after another is not raising any ceiling, so why do White Democrats never get elected Mayor there?  Is that racially motivated in a racist way?

Yes black people vote as a bloc all the time I think we already established that. Now maybe I am wrong but perhaps the democrats always put up a black candidate and the republicans a white one and perhaps blacks vote 90-10 democrat like usual. As for the primaries it is possible that the most prominent members of the black community in DC would run for mayor considering they are a majority there, and thus would win the primaries and the general after that. I could be wrong of course i do not know much about DC politics. Except for Marion Berry. I dunno maybe there is something special about DC? Anyways you cannot deny Blacks have consistently not only voted for white candidates but have made them their own( i.e Bill). I do not think that has occured in national American politics for a black person till Obama. The closest would be Jesse Jackson but he truly was the black candidate. You are trying to cariciture Obama as that and you are wrong.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon on May 08, 2008, 10:22:58 pm


Congratulations, you identified examples that apply to approximately 4% of white American voters and are noteworthy for their exceptionality. Not only that, but you did so without reference to the very many African-American candidates who have run with white electorates--and lost.


Blacks are only 12% of the population you know.  I could have named plenty of white candidates who ran in African-American electorates and lost too.




Do you seriously want to argue that most white voters are just fine voting for black candidates regardless of race? Have you heard of the Bradley effect?


There are plenty of white voters who are anxious TO vote for a black candidate.

You do know that the Bradley effect term is almost 30 years old, right?



Again, a minority voting for a minority candidate in a winner-takes-all system, when they have consistently voted for members of the majority in other elections, is not racism.


If they are preferencing a candidate because of their own prejudice towards that race, then it is most definately racially prejudiced behavior.  This is simple common sense here.

I live in a majority-black county.  Would it not be racist for me to vote for a white candidate just because they were white?


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: The Mikado on May 08, 2008, 10:56:10 pm


Congratulations, you identified examples that apply to approximately 4% of white American voters and are noteworthy for their exceptionality. Not only that, but you did so without reference to the very many African-American candidates who have run with white electorates--and lost.


Blacks are only 12% of the population you know.  I could have named plenty of white candidates who ran in African-American electorates and lost too.




Do you seriously want to argue that most white voters are just fine voting for black candidates regardless of race? Have you heard of the Bradley effect?


There are plenty of white voters who are anxious TO vote for a black candidate.

You do know that the Bradley effect term is almost 30 years old, right?



Again, a minority voting for a minority candidate in a winner-takes-all system, when they have consistently voted for members of the majority in other elections, is not racism.


If they are preferencing a candidate because of their own prejudice towards that race, then it is most definately racially prejudiced behavior.  This is simple common sense here.

I live in a majority-black county.  Would it not be racist for me to vote for a white candidate just because they were white?

No it would not.  For example, if I were South African, I'dve voted against the ANC in the last election...the opposition leader happening to be white...not for racial reasons, but because Thabo Mbeki's a piss-poor leader.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon on May 08, 2008, 11:12:11 pm


No it would not.  For example, if I were South African, I'dve voted against the ANC in the last election...the opposition leader happening to be white...not for racial reasons, but because Thabo Mbeki's a piss-poor leader.

ASDF is saying that it is okay for blacks to vote for racist reasons if they live in a majority white electorate.  I am asking if it is okay for a white to vote for racist reasons if they live in a majority black electorate.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Brittain33 on May 09, 2008, 07:07:13 am
The "raising the ceiling" argument only goes so far.  Washington, DC has had several black mayors.  Electing one after another is not raising any ceiling, so why do White Democrats never get elected Mayor there?  Is that racially motivated in a racist way?

Black voters are and always will be a minority for Presidential voting. It's different from local elections. Yes, it was a breakthrough when black mayors were first elected in the 1960s. It isn't any more. This is a different stage of progress. You aren't going to compare the mayor of Washington, D.C. to a U.S. Senator or President.

There are many districts where black voters provide a plurality of support for white candidates. LA-06 is one; if Childers wins, MS-01 will be another. There, you have huge numbers of black voters turning out for conservative white candidates who disavow Obama. Seems pretty non-racist to me.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Brittain33 on May 09, 2008, 08:22:41 am
ASDF is saying that it is okay for blacks to vote for racist reasons

What I have said, and which I ask you to acknowledge if you are going to cite me by name, is that it is not racist for a minority group to vote en masse for one candidate, and that relations between a minority and majority are not and have never been symmetrical. This applies equally to federal elections (where blacks are a small minority) and Memphis city politics (where whites are a minority)

If you have any integrity or maturity, you'll talk with me about what I'm saying, instead of going off on a personal jihad that has no relation to my arguments.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Brittain33 on May 09, 2008, 08:24:56 am
There are plenty of white voters who are anxious TO vote for a black candidate.

And there are, even at this late date, a number of black voters who voted for Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama. Several months ago, when Obama had emerged as a viable candidate and before Bill Clinton had started outright insulting black voters, a large number of them were supportive of Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama.

Obviously you're scarred by whatever politics goes on in your part of the country and you're having fun being "the most partisan member" here or whatever, but I have to ask you to step back from that and take a look at the bigger picture.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Brittain33 on May 09, 2008, 08:26:31 am
I live in a majority-black county.  Would it not be racist for me to vote for a white candidate just because they were white?

Given that you do so, you've given away the game. You're saying that Democratic voters for Barack Obama are as racist as... you. Meanwhile, you've identified reasons why you'd support a white candidate that have nothing to do with racism.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon on May 09, 2008, 01:03:16 pm
Obviously you're scarred by whatever politics goes on in your part of the country

Thanks for the lecture, Professor Obama.  I guess that's what people like me that cling to guns and religion do I guess.


Given that you do so, you've given away the game. You're saying that Democratic voters for Barack Obama are as racist as... you. Meanwhile, you've identified reasons why you'd support a white candidate that have nothing to do with racism.

Excuse me?  I was giving a hypothetical to show how ridiculous your argument is.  I've voted for numerous black candidates over white ones because I vote for people who share my principles.  A black person voting for another black person because they are black is just as stupid as a white person voting for another white person because they are white.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Brittain33 on May 09, 2008, 01:11:26 pm
Excuse me?  I was giving a hypothetical to show how ridiculous your argument is.  I've voted for numerous black candidates over white ones because I vote for people who share my principles.

And black voters have voted for numerous white candidates who share their principles, and are choosing to vote for a black candidate who shares their principles. In fact, the most common event has been for black voters to vote for a white candidate who doesn't share their principles, because that was the best that's on offer.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon on May 09, 2008, 04:14:26 pm
Excuse me?  I was giving a hypothetical to show how ridiculous your argument is.  I've voted for numerous black candidates over white ones because I vote for people who share my principles.

And black voters have voted for numerous white candidates who share their principles, and are choosing to vote for a black candidate who shares their principles. In fact, the most common event has been for black voters to vote for a white candidate who doesn't share their principles, because that was the best that's on offer.

They are choosing the black candidate that shares their principles over the white candidate that shares their principles at about a 90% clip.  Having a prejudice based on race is racial prejudice.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Brittain33 on May 09, 2008, 04:19:55 pm
They are choosing the black candidate that shares their principles over the white candidate that shares their principles at about a 90% clip.  Having a prejudice based on race is racial prejudice.

She was doing well among black voters until her husband started saying that black votes didn't really count because of Jesse Jackson and when she drew parallels with MLK and LBJ that a black voter might not have made. It's not just ticking boxes on policy, it's making frankly offensive comments that it is not racist to respond to. I agreed with Obama on most issues in February '08, but his handling of Donnie McClurkin was a dealbreaker that indicated he was not identical in political views with a gay Democrat.

The Clintons, Bill and Hillary, had a lot of goodwill among black voters that got them a lot of endorsements and a solid base of support at the start of the primary. They started to blow through that goodwill before a state with more than a tiny black population voted and then, when the black vote started moving en masse to Obama, they wrote them off and really didn't care how they insulted black voters.

You're not looking at the big picture. Obama did a lot to win black voters simply by proving his viability. However, they were far from the first group to embrace his candidacy, ESPECIALLY not among African-American leaders, and Hillary did her part to chase them away.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: The love that set me free on March 21, 2009, 01:55:34 am
LOL.

Remember SomeLawStudent? What a great troll.


Title: Re: Hillary booed at WV speech
Post by: Eraserhead on March 23, 2009, 05:23:13 am
LOL.

Remember SomeLawStudent? What a great troll.

Not really. I miss this board though... so many fun times.