Talk Elections

Election Archive => 2008 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls => Topic started by: Democratic Hawk on June 05, 2008, 07:48:12 PM



Title: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 05, 2008, 07:48:12 PM
An Early Gallup Road Map to the McCain-Obama Matchup (June 4, 2008)

Obama's appeal to young, highly educated apparent in general election

http://www.gallup.com/poll/107689/Early-Gallup-Road-Map-McCainObama-Matchup.aspx

This data was compiled May 1-31; showing how things stand between McCain vs Obama among a number of demographics.

Notes: 1) Bush vs Kerry, 2004 in paranthesis [ ]. 2) [-]denotes incomparable data from 2004 exit poll. 3) Bold denotes net gain on 2004

Gender

Men: McCain 49 [55]; Obama 43 [44]
Women: McCain 42 [48]; Obama 48 [51]

Age

18-29: McCain 36 [45]; Obama 59 [54]
30-49: McCain 46 [-]; Obama 46 [-]
50-64: McCain 47 [-]; Obama 44 [-]
65+: McCain 50 [-]; Obama 38 [-]

Race

White: McCain 53 [58]; Obama 38 [41]
Blacks: McCain 4 [11]; Obama 90 [88]
Hispanics: McCain 29 [44]; Obama 62 [53]

Education

High school or less: McCain 46 [52]; Obama 43 [48]
Some college: McCain 47 [54]; Obama 45 [46]
College graduate: McCain 47 [52]; Obama 47 [46]
Postgraduate: McCain 41 [44]; Obama 54 [55]

Income (monthly)

Under $2000: McCain 36 [-]; Obama 53 [-]
$2000 - $4999: McCain 46 [-]; Obama 46 [-]
$5000 - $7499: McCain 50 [-]; Obama 44 [-]
$7500 or more: McCain 49 [-]; Obama 45 [-]

Region

East: McCain 40 [43]; Obama 50 [56]
Midwest: McCain 43 [51]; Obama 47 [48]
South: McCain 52 [58]; Obama 39 [42]
West: McCain 43 [49]; Obama 50 [50]

Party Identification

Democrat: McCain 15 [11]; Obama 76 [89]
Independent: McCain 45 [48]; Obama 43 [49]
Republican: McCain 85 [93]; Obama 10 [6]

Ideology

Liberal: McCain 14 [13]; Obama 80 [85]
Moderate: McCain 38 [45]; Obama 50 [54]
Conservative: McCain 69 [84]; Obama 23 [15]

Religiosity

Weekly: McCain 55 [61]; Obama 36 [39]
Nearly weekly/Monthly: McCain 46 [47]; Obama 46 [53]
Seldom/Never: McCain 37 (36); Obama 53 [62]

Religious Preference

Protestant/Other Christian: McCain 51 [59]; Obama 41 [40]
Catholic: McCain 46 [52]; Obama 45 [47]
Jewish: McCain 35 [23]; Obama 57 [74]
None: McCain 26 [31]; Obama 66 [67]

Marital Status

Married: McCain 52 [57]; Obama 39 [42]
Not married: McCain 35 [40]; Obama 55 [58]

Red vs Blue State

Bush state won by 6+ points: McCain 52 [-]; Obama 39 [-]
Margin of victory 5 points or less: McCain 44 [-]; Obama 47 [-]
Kerry state won by 6+ points: McCain 39 [-]; Obama 53 [-]

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on June 05, 2008, 07:50:01 PM
Well, I like those hispanic numbers.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 05, 2008, 08:02:20 PM
Thursday June 5, 2008

Obama - 45%
McCain - 45%

Obama/Clinton - 50%
McCain - 45%


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on June 05, 2008, 08:18:39 PM
Nice showing with Independents and even Dems.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck on June 05, 2008, 08:19:48 PM
Those Hispanic numbers can't possibly be right can they?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 05, 2008, 08:32:40 PM
Those Hispanic numbers can't possibly be right can they?

In the 2006 national exit poll, Hispanics voted Democratic 69 to 30

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on June 06, 2008, 06:09:36 PM
Thursday June 5, 2008

Obama - 45%
McCain - 45%

Obama/Clinton - 50%
McCain - 45%

Oh lord... must we start this?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 06, 2008, 08:35:05 PM
Friday June 6, 2008

Obama - 46% (+1)
McCain - 45% (-)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ottermax on June 07, 2008, 01:19:24 AM
I'm so disappointed in those Jewish numbers. I really don't know what to say. I know Jews aren't racist, but the excuse for my fellow Jews is, "He isn't trustworthy, he doesn't support Israel enough!" ugh. One more demographic the Democrats have lost....


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on June 07, 2008, 01:21:23 AM

What the hell does that mean? "I know Jews aren't racist but those Catholics..."


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 07, 2008, 08:53:23 AM
I'm so disappointed in those Jewish numbers. I really don't know what to say. I know Jews aren't racist, but the excuse for my fellow Jews is, "He isn't trustworthy, he doesn't support Israel enough!" ugh. One more demographic the Democrats have lost....

Obama is leading among Jews, 57 to 35, I've only emboldened McCain's % because it is an improvement on the support Bush received among Jews in 2004

As the campaign progresses, Obama may yet increase his support among Jews. These figures for May and, thus, pre-his speech at AIPAC

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on June 07, 2008, 09:47:39 AM
The key numbers I'm interested in are Latinos and women.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on June 07, 2008, 11:22:28 AM
I'm so disappointed in those Jewish numbers. I really don't know what to say. I know Jews aren't racist, but the excuse for my fellow Jews is, "He isn't trustworthy, he doesn't support Israel enough!" ugh. One more demographic the Democrats have lost....

I don't think we have to worry.  The Jewish voters will come back to Obama.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 07, 2008, 12:13:14 PM
Saturday June 7, 2008

Obama - 46% (-)
McCain - 45% (-)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Saxwsylvania on June 07, 2008, 12:36:32 PM
I'm so disappointed in those Jewish numbers. I really don't know what to say. I know Jews aren't racist, but the excuse for my fellow Jews is, "He isn't trustworthy, he doesn't support Israel enough!" ugh. One more demographic the Democrats have lost....

The reason for this animosity is racism ... but it's not the Jews who are being racist.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ottermax on June 07, 2008, 01:03:50 PM
I'm so disappointed in those Jewish numbers. I really don't know what to say. I know Jews aren't racist, but the excuse for my fellow Jews is, "He isn't trustworthy, he doesn't support Israel enough!" ugh. One more demographic the Democrats have lost....

The reason for this animosity is racism ... but it's not the Jews who are being racist.

I don't really understand what you are trying to say.

I think some Jews will come to support Obama, but I've talked to some Jewish friends and many think that Obama = end of Israel.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on June 07, 2008, 01:27:02 PM

What the hell does that mean? "I know Jews aren't racist but those Catholics..."

Just to make sure people don't assume that because they are White and they hate Obama that it isn't because of race (I hope). Catholics on the other hand are not racist at all, otherwise they aren't Democrats. Most Catholics in the Dem primaries were Hispanics who just liked Clinton. Half my family is Catholic and they all like Obama (although they are all from Hawaii). Hopefully you understand what I'm trying to get across here.

Wow, you just keep digging here. "Catholics...are not racist at all, otherwise they aren't Democrats."

Do you like living in ignorance?

If Jews and Catholics obviously aren't racist, who is? Methodists? Lutherans? Grouping people by saying the whole group obviously isn't racist is as ignorant and wrong as someone saying, "Well, blacks are obviously the criminals."


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: NOVA Green on June 07, 2008, 02:53:57 PM

What the hell does that mean? "I know Jews aren't racist but those Catholics..."

Just to make sure people don't assume that because they are White and they hate Obama that it isn't because of race (I hope). Catholics on the other hand are not racist at all, otherwise they aren't Democrats. Most Catholics in the Dem primaries were Hispanics who just liked Clinton. Half my family is Catholic and they all like Obama (although they are all from Hawaii). Hopefully you understand what I'm trying to get across here.

Wow, you just keep digging here. "Catholics...are not racist at all, otherwise they aren't Democrats."

Do you like living in ignorance?

If Jews and Catholics obviously aren't racist, who is? Methodists? Lutherans? Grouping people by saying the whole group obviously isn't racist is as ignorant and wrong as someone saying, "Well, blacks are obviously the criminals."

I think this whole racism angle has really been overplayed and overemphasized this election, not only within the mainstream media, but also on this board as well.

Hillary's huge win in Kentucky and West Virginia, and moderate victory in Pennsylvania had little to do with any kind of overt racism on the part of white working-class voters. There are many other factors at work shaping voters behavior, and attempts to explain this based predominately on race seems simplistic at best.

McCain may well perform better amongst Jews than Bush for a variety of reasons, one being that McCain is not seen as wedded to the evangelical Christian wing of the Republican party, and national security may be another to a lesser degree. I'm sure the Wright affair has not helped, but there is still a long way to go before November, and at the end of the day I would be surprised to see McCain do much better than 30% amongst Jewish voters.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on June 07, 2008, 03:04:44 PM
Nice job Dave!

With respect to McCain:

First, as I have repeatedly tried to tell everyone, the supposed link between favoring amnesty for illegal aliens and getting support from legal hispanic voters in this country is spurious. 

Second, the support level from Republicans is near a historic low!

Third, the level of support from conservatives is lower than I have seem for any Republican party nominee for President is lower than I have seen it since such data has been collected.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 08, 2008, 12:15:24 PM
Sunday June 8, 2008

Obama - 46% (-)
McCain - 44% (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on June 08, 2008, 12:17:03 PM
Sunday June 8, 2008

Obama - 46% (-)
McCain - 44% (-1)

Gallup's analysis:

"Within the current five-day rolling average, Obama has exceeded McCain by a fair margin in each of the last three individual nights of Gallup polling, all conducted since Hillary Clinton announced she would be ending her bid for the Democratic nomination. It appears that her exit decision had the immediate effect of releasing some of her supporters to back Obama in the general election. If this continues in interviews conducted Sunday, Obama should have a clear lead over McCain in Monday's release."


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on June 08, 2008, 04:48:48 PM
Sunday June 8, 2008

Obama - 46% (-)
McCain - 44% (-1)

Gallup's analysis:

"Within the current five-day rolling average, Obama has exceeded McCain by a fair margin in each of the last three individual nights of Gallup polling, all conducted since Hillary Clinton announced she would be ending her bid for the Democratic nomination. It appears that her exit decision had the immediate effect of releasing some of her supporters to back Obama in the general election. If this continues in interviews conducted Sunday, Obama should have a clear lead over McCain in Monday's release."

Fantastic. So much for Democratic disunity (let's hope anyway)...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on June 08, 2008, 08:59:35 PM
Love those hispanic numbers. If Obama is winning 62-63% of the hispanic vote he is most probably winning the election. Another milestone for him would be at least  41% of the white vote, which he is only 3% away from. Mccain is doing worse compared to Bush amongst whites than Obama is.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on June 09, 2008, 01:09:17 PM
Monday June 9, 2008

Obama - 48% (+2)
McCain - 42% (-2)

Obama has consistently held a lead of five to seven percentage points each night since it was reported that Hillary Clinton intended to suspend her campaign. These represent Obama's strongest showing versus McCain to date in Gallup Poll Daily tracking of registered voters' presidential election preferences. For much of the time since Gallup began tracking general election preferences in mid-March, McCain and Obama have been in a statistical dead heat.

Today's data are based on June 6-8 interviewing. Gallup had been reporting a five-day rolling average for the general election to this point, but now that the major party candidates are known Gallup will move to reporting a three-day rolling average. Obama would still hold a statistically significant lead (matching his best to date) in the five-day rolling average based on June 4-8 interviewing given his recent stronger performance.


Obama/Clinton: 51%
McCain: 42%


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ottermax on June 09, 2008, 05:58:53 PM
Sorry, I wrote my comments late at night.... I really tried to explain it, but whatever.

My point is that among Democrats racism is not really an issue. And I really misworded my comments on Catholics. I truly did not mean to offend anyone, but I am really offended at being labeled ignorant. Until this year, I thought America had gotten over racism, but from the exit polls it seems like there is still a lot of it on the East Coast.

When I reread my comment, I was quite shocked, so please ignore it! I really don't believe that!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on June 09, 2008, 08:39:26 PM
I wish they would stop polling Obama/Clintron vs. McCain. I really don't care.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: NOVA Green on June 10, 2008, 01:09:14 AM
Sorry, I wrote my comments late at night.... I really tried to explain it, but whatever.

My point is that among Democrats racism is not really an issue. And I really misworded my comments on Catholics. I truly did not mean to offend anyone, but I am really offended at being labeled ignorant. Until this year, I thought America had gotten over racism, but from the exit polls it seems like there is still a lot of it on the East Coast.

When I reread my comment, I was quite shocked, so please ignore it! I really don't believe that!

Some of the exit polls looked ugly, and they disturbed me as well...

Maybe I'm naive, but I have to believe that this is less than 5% of the American people that vote overtly on skin tone. George Wallace did all right in '68, even in many Northern states, but I would like to believe the possible fantasy that America is in 2008 a post-race era. For the future of our nation, I hope so anyways....


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Stranger in a strange land on June 10, 2008, 01:58:37 AM
Sorry, I wrote my comments late at night.... I really tried to explain it, but whatever.

My point is that among Democrats racism is not really an issue. And I really misworded my comments on Catholics. I truly did not mean to offend anyone, but I am really offended at being labeled ignorant. Until this year, I thought America had gotten over racism, but from the exit polls it seems like there is still a lot of it on the East Coast.

When I reread my comment, I was quite shocked, so please ignore it! I really don't believe that!

Some of the exit polls looked ugly, and they disturbed me as well...

Maybe I'm naive, but I have to believe that this is less than 5% of the American people that vote overtly on skin tone. George Wallace did all right in '68, even in many Northern states, but I would like to believe the possible fantasy that America is in 2008 a post-race era. For the future of our nation, I hope so anyways....


post-race, no. But race matters today far less than it has at any point in our history. That said, it still matters a great deal.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Gustaf on June 10, 2008, 03:36:33 AM
Sorry, I wrote my comments late at night.... I really tried to explain it, but whatever.

My point is that among Democrats racism is not really an issue. And I really misworded my comments on Catholics. I truly did not mean to offend anyone, but I am really offended at being labeled ignorant. Until this year, I thought America had gotten over racism, but from the exit polls it seems like there is still a lot of it on the East Coast.

When I reread my comment, I was quite shocked, so please ignore it! I really don't believe that!

Some of the exit polls looked ugly, and they disturbed me as well...

Maybe I'm naive, but I have to believe that this is less than 5% of the American people that vote overtly on skin tone. George Wallace did all right in '68, even in many Northern states, but I would like to believe the possible fantasy that America is in 2008 a post-race era. For the future of our nation, I hope so anyways....


post-race, no. But race matters today far less than it has at any point in our history. That said, it still matters a great deal.

The number of people in America who are violently racist in a "I could never for a black guy because he's, yuck, black" way is probably pretty low. The number who feel threatened by people like Wright or Jackson and are afraid of black gangs, etc is much higher. Obama's strength originally was that he wasn't triggering the second group. Post-Wright, etc, he is.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 10, 2008, 12:22:35 PM
Tuesday June 10, 2008

Obama - 48% (nc)
McCain - 41% (-1)

Voting preferences have been fairly stable over the last three individual days of tracking polling, all conducted since Hillary Clinton officially suspended her candidacy and publicly endorsed Obama for president on Saturday.

The seven percentage point advantage is Obama's largest to date since Gallup began tracking the general election in March. In turn, McCain has led Obama by as many as six percentage points in early May.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 11, 2008, 05:35:51 PM
Obama Gains Among Women After Clinton Exit (June 11, 2008)

Now running as strongly vs. McCain among women as Clinton did

http://www.gallup.com/poll/107806/Obama-Gains-Among-Women-After-Clinton-Exit.aspx

Vote Preference in the General Election Presidential Election, by Gender and Marital Status

Gallup Daily Tracking, June 5 - 9, 2008 [changes on previous week]

Married men: McCain 53% (-2); Obama 39% (+1)

Married women: McCain 45% (-7); Obama 45% (+5)

Unmarried men: McCain 35% (-4); Obama 57% (+3)

Unmarried women: McCain 31% (-1); Obama 57% (-)

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 11, 2008, 05:43:21 PM
Wednesday June 11, 2008

Obama - 48% (nc)
McCain - 42% (+1)

This marks the third consecutive day that Obama has held a significant lead, as he enjoys a modest boost in support following Hillary Clinton's decision to concede the nomination. Obama's six and seven percentage point advantages over McCain in recent days have been his best to date. Obama has held significant leads over McCain at other points since mid-March (when Gallup first began tracking general election preferences), but for the most part the two candidates have been locked in statistical dead heats.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 12, 2008, 07:08:09 PM
Thursday June 12, 2008

Heavy storms and tornadoes shut down Gallup interviewing centers in Omaha and Lincoln, Neb., Wednesday night, as a result Gallup will not be publishing new Gallup Poll Daily tracking results Thursday, June 12. The next report will be Friday, June 13.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on June 12, 2008, 07:10:30 PM
Thursday June 12, 2008

Heavy storms and tornadoes shut down Gallup interviewing centers in Omaha and Lincoln, Neb., Wednesday night, as a result Gallup will not be publishing new Gallup Poll Daily tracking results Thursday, June 12. The next report will be Friday, June 13.

Lame excuse.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 12, 2008, 07:20:56 PM
Large Democratic Base Provides Big Advantage for Obama (June 12, 2008)

Over half of Americans identify as or lean toward being Democratic

http://www.gallup.com/poll/107842/Large-Democratic-Base-Provides-Big-Advantage-Obama.aspx

Party identification , June 5-10, 2008

Republicans 28%; Independents/Other/Don't Know 34%; Democrats 37%

Among Independents: 11% Lean Republican; 8% are 'pure' Independents; 15% Lean Democratic

Presidential General Election, by Party I/D

Republicans (28%): McCain 85%; Obama 10%
Independents (34%): McCain 39%; Obama 46%
Democrats (37%): McCain 14%; Obama 78%

Lean Republican (11%): McCain 81%; Obama 11%
'Pure' Independents (8%): McCain 35%; Obama 26%
Lean Democratic (15%): McCain 10%; Obama 83% [actually more pro-Obama than 'core' Democrats]

Republicans plus leaners (39%): McCain 84%; Obama 10%
'Pure' Independents, no leaners (8%): McCain 35%; Obama 26%
Democrats plus leaners (52%): McCain 13%; Obama 80%

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 13, 2008, 12:48:03 PM
Friday June 13, 2008

Obama - 46% (-2)
McCain - 43% (+1)

Although Obama's three percentage point advantage is statistically significant, it is down from the 6- to 7-point leads he had in Gallup Poll Daily tracking reports on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of this week.

According to the latest results, based on Gallup Poll Daily tracking interviews from June 9-10 and 12, a sizeable 10% of national registered voters are either undecided between the two major party candidates for president (4%), or say they will not vote for either (6%). This is the highest uncommitted percentage Gallup has seen since it launched daily tracking of an Obama vs. McCain race in early March. (The average across this time period is 8%.) Additionally, a consistent 1% volunteer they will vote for a different candidate.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 13, 2008, 01:08:30 PM
Religious Americans Prefer McCain Over Obama (June 13, 2008)

Preference is especially stronger among white Americans

http://www.gallup.com/poll/107989/Religious-Americans-Prefer-McCain-Over-Obama.aspx

"Is religion an important part of your daily life?"

Yes (64%): Obama 42%; McCain 47%

No (35%): Obama 58%; McCain 33%

Among non-Hispanic whites:

Important (62%): Obama 32%; McCain 57%

Not important (37%): Obama 54%; McCain 38%

McCain leads Obama among whites, 49% to 40%

Gallup Daily Tracking, June 5-10, 2008

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: King on June 13, 2008, 02:18:16 PM
Friday June 13, 2008

Obama - 46% (-2)
McCain - 43% (+1)

Could the bump be over?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 14, 2008, 12:53:46 PM
Saturday June 14, 2008

Obama 45% (-1)
McCain 42% (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on June 14, 2008, 04:58:22 PM
Hmm, so is the Obama bounce winding down?  Let's see.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on June 14, 2008, 09:45:27 PM
I've though that starting tomorrow, we'll start seeing less "bumped" numbers.  The next 3-4 days show the difference.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Umengus on June 15, 2008, 06:48:42 AM
Compared to his score 2 weeks ago, the Mc cain score is weak (in gallup and rasmussen). I don't know why.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 15, 2008, 05:05:26 PM
Compared to his score 2 weeks ago, the Mc cain score is weak (in gallup and rasmussen). I don't know why.

You sound disappointed Umengus?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 15, 2008, 05:07:00 PM
And looking at Gallup, before any much longer it's going to be my turn :(

Sunday 15 June, 2008

Obama - 44% (-1)
McCain - 42% (nc)

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on June 15, 2008, 09:35:28 PM
The move towards undecided is coming from two different areas..  Maybe I'll discuss it later. 

But it's to be expected - voter opinions about this election are far from hardened yet.  And it's quite possible that very little happens in the next two months to change this, since:

1. The conventions are very late.
2. There is almost always (in the modern era) a respite period in between the primary and the general elections where things settle down before throttling up again.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 16, 2008, 12:10:52 PM
Monday 16 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (+2)
McCain - 42% (nc)

The latest release, based on June 13-15 interviewing with over 2,600 registered voters nationwide, shows Obama regaining a statistically significant lead over McCain. Over the weekend, the race was slightly closer, but Obama still held an advantage. Obama has led by as many as seven percentage points since Hillary Clinton decided to abandon her presidential bid earlier this month.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on June 16, 2008, 12:11:42 PM

Landslide Obama


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: exopolitician on June 16, 2008, 04:47:28 PM

No...but hes still leading ;)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on June 16, 2008, 06:03:27 PM
Today was the removal of a strong McCain sample and Obama only bounced back to the 4% lead, not the 6% one he had last week - that's the classic sign of tracking poll movement.  We'll see whether it continues, holds steady or moves back...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 17, 2008, 12:37:56 PM
Tuesday 17 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 42% (nc)



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 18, 2008, 12:08:55 PM
Wednesday 18 June, 2008

Obama - 47% (+1)
McCain - 42% (nc)

These results, based on June 15-17 interviewing, suggest that voter preferences are fairly stable at the moment -- Obama's lead has been four or five points in each of the last three individual nights of polling.

Obama has averaged a four percentage point advantage over McCain since Hillary Clinton decided to suspend her campaign, though in the immediate days after Clinton conceded the nomination Obama led by as much as seven points.

McCain has trailed Obama for most of June and last held a significant lead over him in May 21-25 polling. (To view the complete trend since March 7, 2008, click here.)


Gallup Poll Daily tracking will not be conducted on Wednesday; the next update will appear on gallup.com on Friday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 18, 2008, 12:10:08 PM
Forty Somethings May Hold Key to the Election (June 18, 2008)

Obama and McCain highly competitive among voters in their 40s

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108064/FortySomethings-May-Hold-Key-Election.aspx

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 20, 2008, 12:11:44 PM
Friday 20 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 44% (+2)

These results are based on interviewing conducted on June 16-17 and June 19. (Gallup did not conduct Gallup Poll Daily tracking interviewing on June 18.) Obama has had a higher share of the vote than McCain during most of June, with a margin ranging from one to seven percentage points. Friday's two-point edge for Obama is consistent with that general pattern, although at the narrower end of the range. In the broadest sense, the race between McCain and Obama has been close for months now, with McCain holding small leads over Obama in earlier months this spring prior to Obama's gaining his slight edge in recent weeks.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on June 20, 2008, 01:04:19 PM
Friday 20 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 44% (+2)

These results are based on interviewing conducted on June 16-17 and June 19. (Gallup did not conduct Gallup Poll Daily tracking interviewing on June 18.) Obama has had a higher share of the vote than McCain during most of June, with a margin ranging from one to seven percentage points. Friday's two-point edge for Obama is consistent with that general pattern, although at the narrower end of the range. In the broadest sense, the race between McCain and Obama has been close for months now, with McCain holding small leads over Obama in earlier months this spring prior to Obama's gaining his slight edge in recent weeks.

Interesting:

A seperate USAToday/Gallup poll taken June 15-19 shows Obama leading by a wider margin.

Obama leads Republican John McCain by 48%-42% among registered voters in the survey, taken Sunday through Thursday. Among likely voters, Obama led McCain by 50%-44%.

Both contenders have largely solidified their standing among party regulars. Obama is backed by 84% of Democrats, McCain by 87% of Republicans; 9% of Democrats and 9% of Republicans defect to the other side.

Among independents — the group that usually determines election outcomes — Obama leads 48%-36%.

The poll shows sharp divisions between the two candidates along lines of sex, race and age:

• Women support Obama by 14 points while men back McCain by 3 points.

• Whites support McCain by 6 points while blacks almost unanimously back Obama, who is the first African-American to claim a major party's presidential nomination. Of 130 blacks surveyed, 129 support the Illinois senator.

• Young people back Obama while seniors support McCain. Among those 18 to 29 years old, Obama holds a better than 2-1 edge. Among those 65 and older, McCain leads, 49%-40%.

There were significant regional differences as well. McCain leads in the South, Obama on both the East and West coasts. In the battleground Midwest, Obama is ahead 48%-40%.

The survey of 1,625 adults — including 1,460 registered voters and 1,310 likely voters — has a margin of error of +/- 3 percentage points.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-06-20-poll-friday_N.htm


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck on June 20, 2008, 01:20:58 PM
Friday 20 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 44% (+2)

These results are based on interviewing conducted on June 16-17 and June 19. (Gallup did not conduct Gallup Poll Daily tracking interviewing on June 18.) Obama has had a higher share of the vote than McCain during most of June, with a margin ranging from one to seven percentage points. Friday's two-point edge for Obama is consistent with that general pattern, although at the narrower end of the range. In the broadest sense, the race between McCain and Obama has been close for months now, with McCain holding small leads over Obama in earlier months this spring prior to Obama's gaining his slight edge in recent weeks.

Interesting:

A seperate USAToday/Gallup poll taken June 15-19 shows Obama leading by a wider margin.

Obama leads Republican John McCain by 48%-42% among registered voters in the survey, taken Sunday through Thursday. Among likely voters, Obama led McCain by 50%-44%.

Both contenders have largely solidified their standing among party regulars. Obama is backed by 84% of Democrats, McCain by 87% of Republicans; 9% of Democrats and 9% of Republicans defect to the other side.

Among independents — the group that usually determines election outcomes — Obama leads 48%-36%.

The poll shows sharp divisions between the two candidates along lines of sex, race and age:

• Women support Obama by 14 points while men back McCain by 3 points.

• Whites support McCain by 6 points while blacks almost unanimously back Obama, who is the first African-American to claim a major party's presidential nomination. Of 130 blacks surveyed, 129 support the Illinois senator.

• Young people back Obama while seniors support McCain. Among those 18 to 29 years old, Obama holds a better than 2-1 edge. Among those 65 and older, McCain leads, 49%-40%.

There were significant regional differences as well. McCain leads in the South, Obama on both the East and West coasts. In the battleground Midwest, Obama is ahead 48%-40%.

The survey of 1,625 adults — including 1,460 registered voters and 1,310 likely voters — has a margin of error of +/- 3 percentage points.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-06-20-poll-friday_N.htm

Wow, blacks might be almost unanimous. 

I think people are underestimating the bump he is going to get from them. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: classical liberal on June 21, 2008, 04:07:37 AM
Blacks were already almost unanimously Democrats.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 21, 2008, 12:32:04 PM
Saturday 21 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on June 21, 2008, 01:01:37 PM
Saturday 21 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Obama is running away with this one!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on June 21, 2008, 09:08:24 PM
Saturday 21 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Obama is running away with this one!

Do you need to constantly post this comment?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on June 21, 2008, 09:10:22 PM
Saturday 21 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Obama is running away with this one!

Do you need to constantly post this comment?

It is a fair comment on the poll-obsessed, which includes me.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on June 22, 2008, 12:05:51 PM
Saturday 21 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Obama is running away with this one!

Do you need to constantly post this comment?

Yes, I do. I don't see the problem with pointing out Obama's landslide margin.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 22, 2008, 12:18:05 PM
Sunday 22 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Cue Phil ... 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 ;)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on June 22, 2008, 12:19:18 PM
Saturday 22 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Cue Phil ... 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 ;)


Gallup and Rasmussen seem to be back to their primary game of agreeing to disagree. When one has Obama's margin wide, the other has it narrow, and vice versa.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on June 22, 2008, 12:25:46 PM
Saturday 22 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Cue Phil ... 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 ;)


Gallup and Rasmussen seem to be back to their primary game of agreeing to disagree. When one has Obama's margin wide, the other has it narrow, and vice versa.

Uh,

Neither Gallup nor Rasmussen has had a "wide" margin for Obama (a wide margin would be on the order of the ludicrous Princeton Associates poll).

Both Gallup and Rasmussen have had Obama consistently in the lead by between two to six points.

The problem here is how you handle respondents who really haven't made up their minds.

If you look below the toplines you will find that the softness in McCain's support is rather high, especially when compared to Obama.

So, pushing "leaner's" at this point will result in better number for McCain than is actually the true story.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on June 22, 2008, 12:29:31 PM
Saturday 22 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Cue Phil ... 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 ;)


Gallup and Rasmussen seem to be back to their primary game of agreeing to disagree. When one has Obama's margin wide, the other has it narrow, and vice versa.

Uh,

Neither Gallup nor Rasmussen has had a "wide" margin for Obama (a wide margin would be on the order of the ludicrous Princeton Associates poll).

Both Gallup and Rasmussen have had Obama consistently in the lead by between two to six points.

The problem here is how you handle respondents who really haven't made up their minds.

If you look below the toplines you will find that the softness in McCain's support is rather high, especially when compared to Obama.

So, pushing "leaner's" at this point will result in better number for McCain than is actually the true story.

You would be incorrect. Rasmussen has Obama leading by seven points today. Rasmussen pushes leaners and finds that the margin stays the same pushed and unpushed. In any case, my definitions of "wide" and "narrow" are "outside of margin of error" and "within margin of error". In other words, more than three points is wide, less than three points is narrow. Fifteen points is absurd.

You, quite simply, are a moron. And I will not be drawn into a pointless debate in which you constantly lie and distort, as has happened to Alcon in the other tracking poll thread.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on June 22, 2008, 12:31:13 PM
Saturday 22 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Cue Phil ... 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 ;)


Gallup and Rasmussen seem to be back to their primary game of agreeing to disagree. When one has Obama's margin wide, the other has it narrow, and vice versa.

Uh,

Neither Gallup nor Rasmussen has had a "wide" margin for Obama (a wide margin would be on the order of the ludicrous Princeton Associates poll).

Both Gallup and Rasmussen have had Obama consistently in the lead by between two to six points.

The problem here is how you handle respondents who really haven't made up their minds.

If you look below the toplines you will find that the softness in McCain's support is rather high, especially when compared to Obama.

So, pushing "leaner's" at this point will result in better number for McCain than is actually the true story.

I´ve also read somewhere that Obama is doing better among polls that include "Likely Voters" rather than "Registered Voters", compared with Kerry in 2004, who did better among "Registered Voters" ... I don´t know how much of this is true.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on June 22, 2008, 01:23:35 PM
This election is over! Obama 08!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on June 22, 2008, 02:05:10 PM
Saturday 22 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Cue Phil ... 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 ;)


Gallup and Rasmussen seem to be back to their primary game of agreeing to disagree. When one has Obama's margin wide, the other has it narrow, and vice versa.

Uh,

Neither Gallup nor Rasmussen has had a "wide" margin for Obama (a wide margin would be on the order of the ludicrous Princeton Associates poll).

Both Gallup and Rasmussen have had Obama consistently in the lead by between two to six points.

The problem here is how you handle respondents who really haven't made up their minds.

If you look below the toplines you will find that the softness in McCain's support is rather high, especially when compared to Obama.

So, pushing "leaner's" at this point will result in better number for McCain than is actually the true story.

I´ve also read somewhere that Obama is doing better among polls that include "Likely Voters" rather than "Registered Voters", compared with Kerry in 2004, who did better among "Registered Voters" ... I don´t know how much of this is true.

Well lets look at the actual polls,

Organization     Last polling date     Obama     McCain     Spread

                                                Registered voters

Gallup                        6/20                    46           44              2
Opinion Dynamics      6/18                    45           41              4
RTS (Cook)                 6/15                    44           40              4

Average                                                45           42              3

                                                    Likely voters

Gallup                         6/19                   50            44             6
Rasmussen                 6/21                   49            42             7
Zogby                         6/14                   47            42             5

Average                                                49            43             6

So, based on this information it would appear that Obama does indeed do better among likely voters.

A caveat is how the survey research firm determines "likely voters."  One method is historical, i.e. has the respondent participated in the past, a second method is "intensity," and a third method is a "blend" of the two methods.  In my experience, the "blend" method is best proved it gives more weight to historical than intensity.

Also, please note that (as expected) the undecided vote is smaller among likely voters than among registered voters.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on June 22, 2008, 02:19:46 PM
My guess is a 3-5 point race.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 23, 2008, 06:14:50 PM
Election Enthusiasm Dips After Primaries [June 23, 2008]

Democrats maintain an edge over Republicans

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108322/Election-Enthusiasm-Dips-After-Primaries.aspx#1

All registered voters

48% are more enthusiastic

37% are less enthusiastic

14% feel about the same

By Party Affiliation

61% of Democrats and Democratic-leaners are more enthusiastic

35% of Republicans and Republican-leaners are more enthusiastic

GALLUP POLL June 15-19

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 23, 2008, 06:18:26 PM
Monday 23 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 43% (-1)

These results are based on June 20-22 polling, and match the average three percentage point advantage held by Obama for the past week.

Obama received a rather short-lived bump in support right after he clinched the nomination, with his lead over McCain stretching to as much as seven points. Since then, voter preferences have been quite stable, with Obama maintaining a slight edge.

Relatively stable voter preferences at this point in the campaign would not be unexpected, as the intensity of the campaign has died down since the primary process concluded. Obama and McCain continue to make speeches and campaign almost daily to attempt to keep themselves in the news, however, the next major events in the campaign will likely be the candidates' selections of their vice presidential running mates later this summer.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on June 23, 2008, 06:37:14 PM
Election Enthusiasm Dips After Primaries [June 23, 2008]

Democrats maintain an edge over Republicans

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108322/Election-Enthusiasm-Dips-After-Primaries.aspx#1

All registered voters

48% are more enthusiastic

37% are less enthusiastic

14% feel about the same

By Party Affiliation

61% of Democrats and Democratic-leaners are more enthusiastic

35% of Republicans and Republican-leaners are more enthusiastic

GALLUP POLL June 15-19

Dave

Let me amplify, by compring the data from March of 2004 with that of June 2008.

                    More enthusiastic     Less enthusiastic     Same
                    Rs          Ds               Rs          Ds               Rs          Ds

2008            35          61               51          32               13         13

2004            52          51               27          35               20         13

Change      -17        +10             +24          - 3              - 7           0

So, while there has been a modest increase in Democrat enthsiasm over the past four years based on this data, there has been a dramatic drop in Republican enthusiasm over the same period.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 24, 2008, 12:28:09 PM
Obama Has Edge on Key Election Issues [June 24, 2008]

Better positioned than McCain on top two issues - gas prices and the economy

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108331/Obama-Has-Edge-Key-Election-Issues.aspx

If you had to choose, who do you think would do a better job on [issue]. [ROTATED]?

Healthcare (41%)*: Obama 51%; McCain 26%
The economy (49%): Obama 48%; McCain 32%
Energy, including gas prices (51%): Obama 47%; McCain 28%
Taxes (34%): Obama 44%; McCain 35%
The situation in Iraq (44%): Obama 43%; McCain 43%
Moral values (34%): Obama 40%; McCain 39%
Illegal immigration (27%): Obama 34%; McCain 36%
Terrorism (41%): Obama 33%; McCain 52%

* % citing issue as being extremely importaint in influencing their vote

USA Today/Gallup, June 15-19, 2008

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 24, 2008, 12:30:06 PM
Tuesday 24 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 43% (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on June 24, 2008, 12:38:31 PM
Tuesday 24 June, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 43% (nc)

All hands... steady as she goes.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on June 24, 2008, 12:54:47 PM
Obama Has Edge on Key Election Issues [June 24, 2008]

Better positioned than McCain on top two issues - gas prices and the economy

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108331/Obama-Has-Edge-Key-Election-Issues.aspx

If you had to choose, who do you think would do a better job on [issue]. [ROTATED]?

Healthcare (41%)*: Obama 51%; McCain 26%
The economy (49%): Obama 48%; McCain 32%
Energy, including gas prices (51%): Obama 47%; McCain 28%
Taxes (34%): Obama 44%; McCain 35%
The situation in Iraq (44%): Obama 43%; McCain 43%
Moral values (34%): Obama 40%; McCain 39%
Illegal immigration (27%): Obama 34%; McCain 36%
Terrorism (41%): Obama 33%; McCain 52%

* % citing issue as being extremely important in influencing their vote

USA Today/Gallup, June 15-19, 2008

Dave

On "Illegal Immigration," 19% say "neither," which is both higher than any of the others, and more than half that of either candidate.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on June 24, 2008, 02:30:30 PM
Quote
Moral values (34%): Obama 40%; McCain 39%
Er... wow.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Umengus on June 24, 2008, 03:25:41 PM
Quote
Moral values (34%): Obama 40%; McCain 39%
Er... wow.

lol I can't believe that. Fake poll ("air connu").


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on June 24, 2008, 03:36:51 PM
lol I can't believe that. Fake poll ("air connu").

Gallup's long-established national tracking poll is a "fake poll" based on a 34% subsample that you intuitively feel is wrong?  Or is this a joke?  :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ottermax on June 24, 2008, 06:04:24 PM
Taxes and Iraq surprise me. I think the moral values should be closer than Bush-Kerry, considering that McCain isn't really pushing his Christian values, but these numbers are wrong.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on June 24, 2008, 11:49:14 PM
McCain is more competetive on the Iraq issue than he has any right to be.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Umengus on June 25, 2008, 03:44:42 AM
lol I can't believe that. Fake poll ("air connu").

Gallup's long-established national tracking poll is a "fake poll" based on a 34% subsample that you intuitively feel is wrong?  Or is this a joke?  :P

Gallup did crazy in 2004. Completely off. Hence, I'm cautious with this firm.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on June 25, 2008, 09:25:33 AM
lol I can't believe that. Fake poll ("air connu").

Gallup's long-established national tracking poll is a "fake poll" based on a 34% subsample that you intuitively feel is wrong?  Or is this a joke?  :P

Gallup did crazy in 2004. Completely off. Hence, I'm cautious with this firm.

On the state level, not their tracking poll, I thought.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on June 25, 2008, 09:34:14 AM
lol I can't believe that. Fake poll ("air connu").

Gallup's long-established national tracking poll is a "fake poll" based on a 34% subsample that you intuitively feel is wrong?  Or is this a joke?  :P

Gallup did crazy in 2004. Completely off. Hence, I'm cautious with this firm.

On the state level, not their tracking poll, I thought.

Gallup didn't do a tracking poll in 2004 after the 2000 disaster (which has been corrected for now, as far as I can tell).

Their final poll would have been directly had they not allocated the undecideds as follows:

Actual Poll
Bush 49, Kerry 47, Nader 1

After Undecided Allocation
Bush 49, Kerry 49 (+2), Nader 2 (+1)

Frank Newport must have been on crack when he made that move.  Break them evenly!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on June 25, 2008, 12:57:32 PM
in the form of hawk...

Wednesday 25 June, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+2)

Based on the language in the release, I suspect that it's just a strong McCain sample.  Time will tell...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on June 25, 2008, 12:58:26 PM
I had a sneaking suspicion you'd be unable to resist posting this, Sam.  ;)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on June 25, 2008, 12:59:23 PM
I had a sneaking suspicion you'd be unable to resist posting this, Sam.  ;)

I had a sneaking suspicion that no one else would want to.  ;)

(its been up for about 30 minutes, at least)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on June 25, 2008, 01:02:47 PM
(its been up for about 30 minutes, at least)

I was on my way to!  Some of us don't subscribe to the damn Gallup RSS feed.  :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on June 25, 2008, 01:05:25 PM
(its been up for about 30 minutes, at least)

I was on my way to!  Some of us don't subscribe to the damn Gallup RSS feed.  :P

I subscribe to the RSS feed? - that's news to me.  I'm too cheap to subscribe to anything except for this site.  I do know it was posted to RCP over 30 minutes ago - that's what I was reading it from.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on June 25, 2008, 01:22:33 PM
Utah and California are canceling each other out.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on June 25, 2008, 01:24:02 PM
(its been up for about 30 minutes, at least)

I was on my way to!  Some of us don't subscribe to the damn Gallup RSS feed.  :P

I subscribe to the RSS feed? - that's news to me.  I'm too cheap to subscribe to anything except for this site.  I do know it was posted to RCP over 30 minutes ago - that's what I was reading it from.

An RSS feed is a free format (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSS_(file_format)), and Gallup doesn't actually use it.  I was being playful, but apparently that don't come across :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Umengus on June 25, 2008, 01:34:11 PM
lol I can't believe that. Fake poll ("air connu").

Gallup's long-established national tracking poll is a "fake poll" based on a 34% subsample that you intuitively feel is wrong?  Or is this a joke?  :P



Gallup did crazy in 2004. Completely off. Hence, I'm cautious with this firm.

On the state level, not their tracking poll, I thought.

Gallup didn't do a tracking poll in 2004 after the 2000 disaster (which has been corrected for now, as far as I can tell).

Their final poll would have been directly had they not allocated the undecideds as follows:

Actual Poll
Bush 49, Kerry 47, Nader 1

After Undecided Allocation
Bush 49, Kerry 49 (+2), Nader 2 (+1)

Frank Newport must have been on crack when he made that move.  Break them evenly!

Problem is not really their last result which was not so horrible. The problem is their polls during the campaign. Very erratic. Fake bounce. etc (The biggest problem was the bad composition of their sample)

Maybe that, like Rasmussen in 2004, Gallup has improved his way to poll the country. Their tracking poll seems not bad. But I stay cautious, especially in summer.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on June 25, 2008, 01:39:49 PM
It just might be an overly McCain sample.

How soon will that day's sample drop out of the average?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on June 25, 2008, 01:55:30 PM
lol I can't believe that. Fake poll ("air connu").

Gallup's long-established national tracking poll is a "fake poll" based on a 34% subsample that you intuitively feel is wrong?  Or is this a joke?  :P



Gallup did crazy in 2004. Completely off. Hence, I'm cautious with this firm.

On the state level, not their tracking poll, I thought.

Gallup didn't do a tracking poll in 2004 after the 2000 disaster (which has been corrected for now, as far as I can tell).

Their final poll would have been directly had they not allocated the undecideds as follows:

Actual Poll
Bush 49, Kerry 47, Nader 1

After Undecided Allocation
Bush 49, Kerry 49 (+2), Nader 2 (+1)

Frank Newport must have been on crack when he made that move.  Break them evenly!

Problem is not really their last result which was not so horrible. The problem is their polls during the campaign. Very erratic. Fake bounce. etc (The biggest problem was the bad composition of their sample)

Maybe that, like Rasmussen in 2004, Gallup has improved his way to poll the country. Their tracking poll seems not bad. But I stay cautious, especially in summer.

That's the way Gallup's original poll is (not the tracking poll).  It's supposed to be doing that before the election.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: King on June 25, 2008, 05:09:14 PM
in the form of hawk...

Wednesday 25 June, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+2)

Based on the language in the release, I suspect that it's just a strong McCain sample.  Time will tell...

The WalterMitty bump is starting to show.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 25, 2008, 05:43:01 PM
McCain vs. Obama as Commander in Chief [June 25, 2008]

McCain gets high marks, but Obama passes 50% threshold

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108373/McCain-vs-Obama-Commander-Chief.aspx

Do you think [John McCain/Barack Obama -- can -- or cannot -- handle the responsibilities of commander in chief of the military?

John McCain: 80% Yes, can; 17% No, can't
Barack Obama: 55% Yes can; 40% No, can't

USA Today/Gallup, June 15-19, 2008

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on June 26, 2008, 01:11:54 AM
in the form of hawk...

Wednesday 25 June, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+2)

Based on the language in the release, I suspect that it's just a strong McCain sample.  Time will tell...

North Dakota is definitley in play. I think these numbers strengthen his lead in one time swing states like North Carolina, Indiana and Georgia, as well.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on June 26, 2008, 02:10:49 AM
in the form of hawk...

Wednesday 25 June, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+2)

Based on the language in the release, I suspect that it's just a strong McCain sample.  Time will tell...

North Dakota is definitley in play. I think these numbers strengthen his lead in one time swing states like North Carolina, Indiana and Georgia, as well.

Phil, nobody believes this race is actually tied, just as nobody believes Obama is leading by double digits. There's no need to pretend that the Gallup Tracking Poll is the only poll that exists or that it's the only one worth anything. It just makes you and your followers (like AHDuke99) look desperate.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on June 26, 2008, 02:16:38 AM
in the form of hawk...

Wednesday 25 June, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+2)

Based on the language in the release, I suspect that it's just a strong McCain sample.  Time will tell...

North Dakota is definitley in play. I think these numbers strengthen his lead in one time swing states like North Carolina, Indiana and Georgia, as well.

Phil, nobody believes this race is actually tied, just as nobody believes Obama is leading by double digits. There's no need to pretend that the Gallup Tracking Poll is the only poll that exists or that it's the only one worth anything. It just makes you and your followers (like AHDuke99) look desperate.

You also have ChrisNJ arguing that Newsweek's poll wasn't bias, and Josh22 believes that NC has an 80% chance of flipping. So saying "nobodY" believes this nonsense is a bit inaccurate, because I assure you some do.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on June 26, 2008, 02:34:36 AM
in the form of hawk...

Wednesday 25 June, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+2)

Based on the language in the release, I suspect that it's just a strong McCain sample.  Time will tell...

North Dakota is definitley in play. I think these numbers strengthen his lead in one time swing states like North Carolina, Indiana and Georgia, as well.

Phil, nobody believes this race is actually tied, just as nobody believes Obama is leading by double digits. There's no need to pretend that the Gallup Tracking Poll is the only poll that exists or that it's the only one worth anything. It just makes you and your followers (like AHDuke99) look desperate.

Nobody believes that this race is tied? Oh, ok. We'll just agree that Obama is up nine points, right (since we can't have it as a double digit lead)? The only polls that are worth anything are the ones that show Obama up in Dem states and closing in on the lead in GOP states. That's your way of thinking and its popular here. It'll always be popular here. I suggest that you not waste your time ganging up on all five McCain supporters here just because we have some good news.

I love how every Obama supporter can boast about their "lead" everywhere else but we McCain supporters can't do the same.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on June 26, 2008, 05:03:37 AM
in the form of hawk...

Wednesday 25 June, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+2)

Based on the language in the release, I suspect that it's just a strong McCain sample.  Time will tell...

North Dakota is definitley in play. I think these numbers strengthen his lead in one time swing states like North Carolina, Indiana and Georgia, as well.

Phil, nobody believes this race is actually tied, just as nobody believes Obama is leading by double digits. There's no need to pretend that the Gallup Tracking Poll is the only poll that exists or that it's the only one worth anything. It just makes you and your followers (like AHDuke99) look desperate.

Nobody believes that this race is tied? Oh, ok. We'll just agree that Obama is up nine points, right (since we can't have it as a double digit lead)? The only polls that are worth anything are the ones that show Obama up in Dem states and closing in on the lead in GOP states. That's your way of thinking and its popular here. It'll always be popular here. I suggest that you not waste your time ganging up on all five McCain supporters here just because we have some good news.

I love how every Obama supporter can boast about their "lead" everywhere else but we McCain supporters can't do the same.

I have never said Obama was up nine points but thanks for putting words in my mouth.

Care to prove the part I highlighted? I posted just recently about how the poll in MO showing Obama down 7 points probably wasn't that far off, I've never bought into the hype of states like ND being competetive and I've written off the LA Times and Newsweek polls as complete trash (several times).

Let me ask you this Phil... given all of the state and national polling we have seen over the past few weeks, do you really think the race is dead even right now?

Being excited about a poll is one thing but your version of "excitement" seems to involve constantly mocking Obama supporters, lumping them all into one category and acting like a child. It's sad to see since you are a worthwhile posters in many ways.

At least get some better material if you're going to carry on in this way! ;)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 26, 2008, 10:26:10 AM
Obama Holds Slim Advantage Over McCain Among Catholics [26 June, 2008]

Hispanic Catholics tip group in Obama's favor

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108382/Obama-Holds-Slim-Advantage-Over-McCain-Among-Catholics.aspx

Presidential Vote Preference, by Religious Affiliation

Protestant: McCain 48%; Obama 41%

-White: McCain 56%; Obama 32%
-Non-White: McCain 15%; Obama 77%

Catholic: McCain 43%; Obama 47%

-Non-Hispanic: McCain 46%; Obama 43%
- Hispanic: McCain 25%; Obama 66%

Mormon: McCain 70%; Obama 23%

Jewish: McCain 29%; Obama 62%

No religion: McCain 25%; Obama 65%

June 5-23, Gallup Daily tracking

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 26, 2008, 12:07:30 PM
Thursday, 26 June, 2008

Obama - 44% (-1)
McCain - 44% (-1)



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: exopolitician on June 26, 2008, 02:01:01 PM
Thursday, 26 June, 2008

Obama - 44% (-1)
McCain - 44% (-1)



OH the suspense

*dramatic music*


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on June 26, 2008, 02:21:06 PM
If there was a bad sampling one day, how soon will it work its way out of the average?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on June 26, 2008, 03:07:57 PM
Obama Holds Slim Advantage Over McCain Among Catholics [26 June, 2008]

Hispanic Catholics tip group in Obama's favor

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108382/Obama-Holds-Slim-Advantage-Over-McCain-Among-Catholics.aspx

Presidential Vote Preference, by Religious Affiliation

Protestant: McCain 48%; Obama 41%

-White: McCain 56%; Obama 32%
-Non-White: McCain 15%; Obama 77%

Catholic: McCain 43%; Obama 47%

-Non-Hispanic: McCain 46%; Obama 43%
- Hispanic: McCain 25%; Obama 66%

Mormon: McCain 70%; Obama 23%

Jewish: McCain 29%; Obama 62%

No religion: McCain 25%; Obama 65%

June 5-23, Gallup Daily tracking

Dave

I guess BRTD can certainly go back to getting lap dances from hispanic women now. It also looks like Obama's Jewish "problem" has been extremely overblown by the media (going by this and several other polls).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on June 27, 2008, 08:04:01 AM


I guess BRTD can certainly go back to getting lap dances from hispanic women now. It also looks like Obama's Jewish "problem" has been extremely overblown by the media (going by this and several other polls).

McCain is running 3 points higher than Bush got in 2004 with Jewish voters. 

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewvote.html

Again the problem is not carrying the group, but cutting into the base.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on June 27, 2008, 01:38:51 PM
three points is a completely meaningless distinction to make when MoEs are considered.

oh, and apparently the Hispanics aren't dead set on hating a negro.  they may well give him 70%...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Flying Dog on June 27, 2008, 01:41:17 PM
Obama will likely be on par with Kerry's preformance among Jews. I'd even wager he might do a point or two better if the national average is big enough.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on June 27, 2008, 02:29:59 PM
Obama will likely be on par with Kerry's preformance among Jews. I'd even wager he might do a point or two better if the national average is big enough.

I expect not on par, a bit worse.

Also, Bush's "Jewish numbers" went up from 19 to 24 from 2002 to 2004.  They are fluid, long term, but recently they seem be growing for the GOP.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ottermax on June 27, 2008, 03:04:52 PM
Obama will likely be on par with Kerry's preformance among Jews. I'd even wager he might do a point or two better if the national average is big enough.

I expect not on par, a bit worse.

Also, Bush's "Jewish numbers" went up from 19 to 24 from 2002 to 2004.  They are fluid, long term, but recently they seem be growing for the GOP.

Ew. If Jews start voting for the GOP I might just want to move to Canada... It's a long way from Jews voting for Republicans. They really hate Bush, but so many old Jewish women are upset with Obama defeating Hillary and so many Jews distrust him. I'm so frustrated with my religion.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on June 27, 2008, 03:10:16 PM
Obama will likely be on par with Kerry's preformance among Jews. I'd even wager he might do a point or two better if the national average is big enough.

I expect not on par, a bit worse.

Also, Bush's "Jewish numbers" went up from 19 to 24 from 2002 to 2004.  They are fluid, long term, but recently they seem be growing for the GOP.

Ew. If Jews start voting for the GOP I might just want to move to Canada... It's a long way from Jews voting for Republicans. They really hate Bush, but so many old Jewish women are upset with Obama defeating Hillary and so many Jews distrust him. I'm so frustrated with my religion.

Exactly.  My aunt and my grandma, who are quite liberal, say that they distrust Obama and will vote for McCain.

I am a Republican Jew from California, which kind of puts me in the minority, don't you think? :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Flying Dog on June 27, 2008, 03:11:40 PM
Obama will likely be on par with Kerry's preformance among Jews. I'd even wager he might do a point or two better if the national average is big enough.

I expect not on par, a bit worse.

Also, Bush's "Jewish numbers" went up from 19 to 24 from 2002 to 2004.  They are fluid, long term, but recently they seem be growing for the GOP.

Ew. If Jews start voting for the GOP I might just want to move to Canada... It's a long way from Jews voting for Republicans. They really hate Bush, but so many old Jewish women are upset with Obama defeating Hillary and so many Jews distrust him. I'm so frustrated with my religion.

Exactly.  My aunt and my grandma, who are quite liberal, say that they distrust Obama and will vote for McCain.

I am a Republican Jew from California, which kind of puts me in the minority, don't you think? :P

There's that factual anecdotal evidence again....


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ottermax on June 27, 2008, 03:16:50 PM
Obama will likely be on par with Kerry's preformance among Jews. I'd even wager he might do a point or two better if the national average is big enough.

I expect not on par, a bit worse.

Also, Bush's "Jewish numbers" went up from 19 to 24 from 2002 to 2004.  They are fluid, long term, but recently they seem be growing for the GOP.

Ew. If Jews start voting for the GOP I might just want to move to Canada... It's a long way from Jews voting for Republicans. They really hate Bush, but so many old Jewish women are upset with Obama defeating Hillary and so many Jews distrust him. I'm so frustrated with my religion.

Exactly.  My aunt and my grandma, who are quite liberal, say that they distrust Obama and will vote for McCain.

I am a Republican Jew from California, which kind of puts me in the minority, don't you think? :P

Are you a Conservative? I know that among my Reform community Obama has incredible support (and I live in Washington which already loves Obama), but I think he doesn't do as well among Orthodox or Conservatives.

You definitely are in the minority... I've actually never met a Republican Jew in person.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on June 27, 2008, 03:17:03 PM
If there was a bad sampling one day, how soon will it work its way out of the average?

Tomorrow.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on June 27, 2008, 03:22:41 PM
Obama will likely be on par with Kerry's preformance among Jews. I'd even wager he might do a point or two better if the national average is big enough.

I expect not on par, a bit worse.

Also, Bush's "Jewish numbers" went up from 19 to 24 from 2002 to 2004.  They are fluid, long term, but recently they seem be growing for the GOP.

Ew. If Jews start voting for the GOP I might just want to move to Canada... It's a long way from Jews voting for Republicans. They really hate Bush, but so many old Jewish women are upset with Obama defeating Hillary and so many Jews distrust him. I'm so frustrated with my religion.

Exactly.  My aunt and my grandma, who are quite liberal, say that they distrust Obama and will vote for McCain.

I am a Republican Jew from California, which kind of puts me in the minority, don't you think? :P

Are you a Conservative? I know that among my Reform community Obama has incredible support (and I live in Washington which already loves Obama), but I think he doesn't do as well among Orthodox or Conservatives.

You definitely are in the minority... I've actually never met a Republican Jew in person.
I know tons of Republican Jews.  My brother in law is one (he's in Texas though).  Know many in Kentucky, and even a bunch in the chicagoland area.  They're everywhere.  Orthodox Jews are often conservative, by the way.  It's the assimilated and Reform Jews who tend to be liberal.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on June 27, 2008, 03:23:48 PM
Obama will likely be on par with Kerry's preformance among Jews. I'd even wager he might do a point or two better if the national average is big enough.

I expect not on par, a bit worse.

Also, Bush's "Jewish numbers" went up from 19 to 24 from 2002 to 2004.  They are fluid, long term, but recently they seem be growing for the GOP.

Ew. If Jews start voting for the GOP I might just want to move to Canada... It's a long way from Jews voting for Republicans. They really hate Bush, but so many old Jewish women are upset with Obama defeating Hillary and so many Jews distrust him. I'm so frustrated with my religion.

Even during the Reagan years most Jewish voters voted Democrat.  In the 1990's the percentage increased, but the percentage of Jews voting Republican increased in 200 and fairly dramatically, in 2004.  McCain's numbers are higher still.

Most Jews will vote Democrat, but it looks like a larger minority will be voting Republican in 2008, if the polling is correct.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on June 27, 2008, 03:25:37 PM
Still 44-44 on June 27 for the third straight day.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on June 27, 2008, 03:29:28 PM
If there was a bad sampling one day, how soon will it work its way out of the average?

Tomorrow.

Thank you.  Three day sample, I take it?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on June 27, 2008, 04:25:28 PM
If there was a bad sampling one day, how soon will it work its way out of the average?

Tomorrow.

Thank you.  Three day sample, I take it?

I don't know.

Edit:  I looked it up, and it says it's a rolling three day average, so yes, and for the moment not much is rolling.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 27, 2008, 06:28:58 PM
Americans Prioritize the Economy Over Terrorism [27 June, 2008]

Majority viewpoint persists across all imcomes and among independents

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108415/Americans-Prioritize-Economy-Over-Terrorism.aspx

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 27, 2008, 07:03:10 PM
Obama Beats McCain on Most Character Ratings [27 June, 2008]

Obama leads on 7 of 10 characteristics, but McCain wins on leadership

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108418/Obama-Beats-McCain-Most-Character-Ratings.aspx

A. Cares about the needs of people like you: Obama 52%; McCain 30%

B. Is a strong and decisive leader: Obama 40%; McCain 46%

C. Shares your values: Obama 47%; McCain 39%

D. Understands the problems Americans face in their daily lives: Obama 54%; McCain 29%

E. Can manage the government effectively: Obama 42%; McCain 42%

F. Is independent in his thoughts and actions: Obama 52%; McCain 36%

G. Is honest and trustworthy: Obama 39%; McCain 35% (14% cite both equally)

H. Has a clear plan for solving the country's problems: Obama 41%; McCain 31% (19% cite neither)

I. Would work well with both parties to get things done in Washington: Obama 48%; McCain 35%

J. Would stand up to the special interests, including those aligned with his party: Obama 48%; McCain 34%

C, D, E, F: Asked of Form A half-sample

G, H, I,  J: Asked of Form B half-sample

USA Today/Gallup, June 15-19, 2008

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 27, 2008, 07:04:48 PM
Gallup Editors' Election Poll Analysis [27 June, 2008]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108430/Gallup-Editors-Election-Poll-Analysis.aspx

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 27, 2008, 07:27:17 PM
Quote
Moral values (34%): Obama 40%; McCain 39%
Er... wow.

lol I can't believe that. Fake poll ("air connu").

Of course, "moral values" need not pertain exclusively to such issues as abortion and same-sex marriage, they could, also, apply to, for example, corporate malfeasance. Besides a series of Republican scandals may well have dented the party's traditional advantage

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Flying Dog on June 27, 2008, 08:10:23 PM
Obama Beats McCain on Most Character Ratings [27 June, 2008]

Obama leads on 7 of 10 characteristics, but McCain wins on leadership

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108418/Obama-Beats-McCain-Most-Character-Ratings.aspx

A. Cares about the needs of people like you: Obama 52%; McCain 30%

B. Is a strong and decisive leader: Obama 40%; McCain 46%

C. Shares your values: Obama 47%; McCain 39%

D. Understands the problems Americans face in their daily lives: Obama 54%; McCain 29%

E. Can manage the government effectively: Obama 42%; McCain 42%

F. Is independent in his thoughts and actions: Obama 52%; McCain 36%

G. Is honest and trustworthy: Obama 39%; McCain 35% (14% cite both equally)

H. Has a clear plan for solving the country's problems: Obama 41%; McCain 31% (19% cite neither)

I. Would work well with both parties to get things done in Washington: Obama 48%; McCain 35%

J. Would stand up to the special interests, including those aligned with his party: Obama 48%; McCain 34%

C, D, E, F: Asked of Form A half-sample

G, H, I,  J: Asked of Form B half-sample

USA Today/Gallup, June 15-19, 2008

Dave

These one's kind of surprise me.

I thought everybody thought Obama was an elitist. How can an elitist share common American values?

Also, so much for McCain's maverick image.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on June 28, 2008, 02:46:33 AM
Look closely at the numbers!

In only three of the categories did Obama break 50%, and that just barely with his highest being 54%!

The truth is that McCain has real low numbers, which he has earned!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Umengus on June 28, 2008, 05:04:49 AM
Quote
Moral values (34%): Obama 40%; McCain 39%
Er... wow.

lol I can't believe that. Fake poll ("air connu").

Of course, "moral values" need not pertain exclusively to such issues as abortion and same-sex marriage, they could, also, apply to, for example, corporate malfeasance. Besides a series of Republican scandals may well have dented the party's traditional advantage

Dave

indeed but I think that on the election day, Mc Cain will be first on this problem.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 28, 2008, 08:38:44 AM
Quote
Moral values (34%): Obama 40%; McCain 39%
Er... wow.

lol I can't believe that. Fake poll ("air connu").

Of course, "moral values" need not pertain exclusively to such issues as abortion and same-sex marriage, they could, also, apply to, for example, corporate malfeasance. Besides a series of Republican scandals may well have dented the party's traditional advantage

Dave

indeed but I think that on the election day, Mc Cain will be first on this problem.

I'd be surprised if he isn't but it's plausible that "moral values" won't be the primary factor in determining how one votes to the extent it was in 2004. The 'marriage' issue was, of course, on the ballot in several states which, undoubtedly, galvanised social conservatives. In 2004, social conservatives were core, the vangaurd, among Bush activists; while 22% of voters cited "moral values" as their most important issue, breaking for Bush by 80% to Kerry's 18%

I don't know how salient "values issues" were, in 2006, in terms of voters citing it is their top issue but they broke as follows:

Extremely important (36%): Democrat 40%; Republican 58%
Very important (21%): Democrat 51%; Republican 48%
Somewhat important (20%): Democrat 61%; Republican 37%

Important (77%): Democrat 37.31%; Republican 38.36%

Not at all important (22%): Democrat 69%; Republican 29%

In 2006, white evangelical/born-again Christians (24%) broke Democrat 28% (+7 on 2004) and Republican 70% (-8 on 2004). White evangelicals comprised 71% of evangelicals; but the remaining 29%, largely African-American I'd have thought, obviously closed the gap overall: Democrat 41%; Republican 58%.

Obama is reaching out to centrist evangelicals and Catholics - appealing to their, for want of better words, social consciences. Add to that the distrust many evangelicals have towards McCain. That said, it is a presidential year, which brings the issue of judicial nominees into the mix

Trawling comments as I do on various media sites, I've encountered some hostility towards McCain citing aspects of his private life; namely, his tomcatting when married to his first wife, from whom he separated then divorced so that he could marry his younger, richer mistress

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on June 28, 2008, 08:16:58 PM
No current Gallup.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Gustaf on June 29, 2008, 05:49:25 AM
Obama Holds Slim Advantage Over McCain Among Catholics [26 June, 2008]

Hispanic Catholics tip group in Obama's favor

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108382/Obama-Holds-Slim-Advantage-Over-McCain-Among-Catholics.aspx

Presidential Vote Preference, by Religious Affiliation

Protestant: McCain 48%; Obama 41%

-White: McCain 56%; Obama 32%
-Non-White: McCain 15%; Obama 77%

Catholic: McCain 43%; Obama 47%

-Non-Hispanic: McCain 46%; Obama 43%
- Hispanic: McCain 25%; Obama 66%

Mormon: McCain 70%; Obama 23%

Jewish: McCain 29%; Obama 62%

No religion: McCain 25%; Obama 65%

June 5-23, Gallup Daily tracking

Dave

I guess BRTD can certainly go back to getting lap dances from hispanic women now. It also looks like Obama's Jewish "problem" has been extremely overblown by the media (going by this and several other polls).

McCain polling 30-60 when Bush did about 25-75 in 2004 is a definite, substantial improvement. Of course, you can say that the poll is wrong, etc. And in overall numbers the number of Jews is still too low to make a real impact with this kind of change.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on June 29, 2008, 12:14:16 PM
Obama takes the lead again ...

Obama - 46% (+2)
McCain - 42% (-2)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 29, 2008, 12:15:35 PM
Obama takes the lead again ...

Obama - 46% (+2)
McCain - 42% (-2)

:)

Registered voters' preferences had been evenly divided in the prior three Gallup Poll Daily tracking releases. Obama has now pushed slightly back ahead after a stronger showing in Saturday's polling, mirroring the slight advantage he has held for much of June. The polling was the first Gallup had conducted following the "Unity" rally in which Obama and former Democratic nomination rival Hillary Clinton publicly campaigned together.

The presidential race has been close since Gallup began tracking general election preferences in March. The largest lead for either candidate has been just seven percentage points, for Obama after Clinton decided to suspend her campaign.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on June 29, 2008, 02:16:31 PM
My guess is a 4-6 point race.

That pro-McCain sample passed through the system


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on June 29, 2008, 05:58:24 PM
Obama takes the lead again ...

Obama - 46% (+2)
McCain - 42% (-2)

Will the Republican hacks still act like this is the only national poll that matters?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on June 29, 2008, 05:59:52 PM
Obama takes the lead again ...

Obama - 46% (+2)
McCain - 42% (-2)


Oops. Looks like some people got a little too excited.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on June 30, 2008, 02:39:12 PM
Obama takes the lead again ...

Obama - 46% (+2)
McCain - 42% (-2)


Oops. Looks like some people got a little too excited.

I'm not entirely sure how waiting for a days sample to get out of the average and saying it's a 4-6 point race, at this point is getting "excited."


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 30, 2008, 06:16:52 PM
Monday, June 30, 2008

Obama - 47% (+1)
McCain - 42% (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on June 30, 2008, 06:24:15 PM
About One in Four Voters are "Swing Voters" [30 June, 2008]

Higher proportion than in 2004

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108466/About-One-Four-Voters-Swing-Voters.aspx

Voter Preference and Commitment for the 2008 Presidential Election

42% Obama, certain to vote for
8% Obama, could change mind
6% Undecided/Other
9% McCain, could change mind
35% McCain, certain to vote for

Percentage of Swing Voters, by Political Party

16% Democrats
34% Independents
21% Republicans

Percentage of Swing Voters, by Ideology

12% Liberal
27% Moderate
27% Conservative

Views of Barack Obama and John McCain, Swing Voters

50% View both favorably
13% View Obama favorably, McCain unfavorably
17% View McCain favorably, Obama unfavorably
11% View both unfavorably

Views of Barack Obama and John McCain, Committed Voters

25% View both favorably
36% View Obama favorably, McCain unfavorably
31% View McCain favorably, Obama unfavorably
2% View both unfavorably

June 15-19, USA Today/Gallup Poll

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Flying Dog on June 30, 2008, 06:26:17 PM


Voter Preference and Commitment for the 2008 Presidential Election

42% Obama, certain to vote for
8% Obama, could change mind
6% Undecided/Other
9% McCain, could change mind
35% McCain, certain to vote for

Percentage of Swing Voters, by Political Party

16% Democrats
34% Independents
21% Republicans



So much for that large proportion of swing Hillary voters.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on June 30, 2008, 06:32:29 PM
Again, a valuable post.

Please note that the so-called "swing" voters have a much more negative view of both McCain and Obama than the committed voters!



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Gustaf on July 01, 2008, 06:09:26 AM
Again, a valuable post.

Please note that the so-called "swing" voters have a much more negative view of both McCain and Obama than the committed voters!



How is that strange? Of course the number of commited Obama or McCain voters disapproving of both candidates will be low. If you disapprove of a candidate you're unlikely to be solid for him. There are many more swing voters that approve of both than commited voters too.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on July 01, 2008, 10:49:36 AM
I'm not entirely sure how waiting for a days sample to get out of the average and saying it's a 4-6 point race, at this point is getting "excited."

It's the whole thing where one person started a new thread about Obama and McCain being tied in this daily tracking poll.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 01, 2008, 03:38:12 PM
I'm not entirely sure how waiting for a days sample to get out of the average and saying it's a 4-6 point race, at this point is getting "excited."

It's the whole thing where one person started a new thread about Obama and McCain being tied in this daily tracking poll.

I think the bulk of posters said, "Maybe this just one bad sample."


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on July 01, 2008, 04:07:55 PM
I'm not entirely sure how waiting for a days sample to get out of the average and saying it's a 4-6 point race, at this point is getting "excited."

It's the whole thing where one person started a new thread about Obama and McCain being tied in this daily tracking poll.

I think the bulk of posters said, "Maybe this just one bad sample."

I agree, attributing the posts of one or two people to a whole party's worth of posters is bad.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 01, 2008, 07:05:03 PM
Tuesday, July 1, 2008

Obama - 47% (nc)
McCain - 42% (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 01, 2008, 07:21:42 PM
Americans Worry McCain Would Be Too Similar to Bush [1 July, 2008]

About half are concerned Obama would go too far in changing Bush policies

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108490/Americans-Worry-McCain-Would-Too-Similar-Bush.aspx

How concerned are you that, as president, John McCain would pursue policies that are too similar to what George W. Bush has pursued ...

Very concerned: 49% (Democrats 76%; Independents 47%; Republicans 20%)
Somewhat concerned: 19% (Democrats 14%; Independents 20%; Republicans 25%)
Not too concerned: 16% (Democrats 4%; Independents 17%; Republicans 30%)
Not concerned at all: 15% (Democrats 6%; Independents 15%; Republicans 25%)

How concerned are you that, as president, Barack Obama would go too far in changing the policies that George W Bush has pursued ...

Very concerned: 30% (Democrats 16%; Independents 22%; Republicans 56%)
Somewhat concerned: 19% (Democrats 15%; Independents 20%; Republicans 23%)
Not too concerned: 19% (Democrats 21%; Independents 22%; Republicans 14%)
Not at all concerned: 31% (Democrats 47%; Independents 34%; Republicans 7%)

June 15-19, 2008, USA Today/Gallup poll

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 01, 2008, 07:44:13 PM

How concerned are you that, as president, John McCain would pursue policies that are too similar to what George W. Bush has pursued ...

Very concerned: 49% (Democrats 76%; Independents 47%; Republicans 20%)
Somewhat concerned: 19% (Democrats 14%; Independents 20%; Republicans 25%)
Not too concerned: 16% (Democrats 4%; Independents 17%; Republicans 30%)
Not concerned at all: 15% (Democrats 6%; Independents 15%; Republicans 25%)

45% of Republicans are concerned that McCain would pursue policies that are too similar to those of Bush

Quote
How concerned are you that, as president, Barack Obama would go too far in changing the policies that George W Bush has pursued ...

Very concerned: 30% (Democrats 16%; Independents 22%; Republicans 56%)
Somewhat concerned: 19% (Democrats 15%; Independents 20%; Republicans 23%)
Not too concerned: 19% (Democrats 21%; Independents 22%; Republicans 14%)
Not at all concerned: 31% (Democrats 47%; Independents 34%; Republicans 7%)

31% of Democrats are concerned that Obama would go too far in changing the policies Bush has pursued

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 02, 2008, 11:08:28 AM
Hispanic Voters Solidly Behind Obama [2 July, 2008]

Few demographic differences evident among Hispanics

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108532/Hispanic-Voters-Solidly-Behind-Obama.aspx

Presidential Preference, by Party Identification

Democrats: Obama 78%; McCain 13%
Independents: Obama 55%; McCain 30%
Republicans (18%): Obama 21%; McCain 75%

Presidential Preference, by Ideology

Liberal: Obama 78%; McCain 14%
Moderate: Obama 60%; McCain 28%
Conservative (36%): Obama 46%; McCain 45%

Presidential Preference, by Age

18 to 29 years old: Obama 66%; McCain 26%
30 to 49 years old: Obama 59%; McCain 31%
50 to 64 years old: Obama 56%; McCain 33%
65 years or older: Obama 51%; McCain 30%

Presidential Vote Preference by Demographic Subgroup, Among Hispanics

Men: Obama 60%; McCain 32%
Women: Obama 59%; McCain 29%

College graduate: Obama 60%; McCain 32%
College non-graduate: Obama 59%; McCain 29%

Married: Obama 55%; McCain 35%
Not married: Obama 63%; McCain 25%

Attend Church weekly: Obama 54%; McCain 34%
Attend Church monthly: Obama 61%; McCain 30%
Seldom/Never attend: Obama 63%; McCain 27%

East: Obama 64%; McCain 25%
Midwest: Obama 63%; McCain 25%
South: Obama 52%; McCain 36%
West: Obama 62%; McCain 29%

Monthly income of < $2,000: Obama 62%; McCain 23%
Monthly income of $2,000 to < $5,000: Obama 60%; McCain 31%
Monthly income of $5,000 to < $7,500: Obama 58%; McCain 34%
Monthly income of $7,500 or more: Obama 54%; McCain 39%

Based on aggregated Gallup Poll Daily tracking data, March-June 2008

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 02, 2008, 12:08:25 PM
Wednesday, July 2, 2008

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 44% (+2)

The June 29-July 1 data show a tightening of the race with the candidates falling back into a statistical tie. Obama led by five percentage points in Monday and Tuesday reports -- based largely on polling conducted over the weekend -- perhaps enjoying a slight bounce following his "Unity" rally with former rival Hillary Clinton last Friday.

In the last two individual nights of polling, voter preferences have been closely divided. The race has generally been close in recent weeks, with Obama usually holding a slight edge.

Obama has been able to attain brief leads following his clinching of the nomination in early June and the Obama-Clinton joint campaign appearance.

These slight Obama bumps have proven to be short-lived, and from a larger perspective there has not been a dramatic restructuring of the race in recent weeks. For example, Obama has averaged 46% of the vote going back to Gallup's June 1-5 release, and his daily percentage over this time period has ranged only between 44% and 48%. McCain's percent of the vote has averaged 43%, and his percent has varied only across an even narrower range between 42% and 45%.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on July 02, 2008, 01:53:51 PM
Just bumping around...  The real Gallup numbers are probably still around Obama +2 to +3%, as they have been for a few weeks now.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 02, 2008, 01:57:18 PM
Just bumping around...  The real Gallup numbers are probably still around Obama +2 to +3%, as they have been for a few weeks now.

So you don't think the 'attacks' on McCain's military service as a qualification to be president are having any impact?

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on July 02, 2008, 02:24:13 PM
Just bumping around...  The real Gallup numbers are probably still around Obama +2 to +3%, as they have been for a few weeks now.

So you don't think the 'attacks' on McCain's military service as a qualification to be president are having any impact?

Dave

No.  I think everyone's tuned out right now.  Wait until mid-August or so.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 02, 2008, 03:11:56 PM
Maybe a 4-5 point race tightening slightly.  Ask me in a fortnight.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: agcatter on July 02, 2008, 04:20:01 PM
I don't think anything is having an effect right now.  No one is paying attention and the numbers bouncing around are mostly noise.

Pretty well frozen nationally at Obama + 4.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MasterJedi on July 02, 2008, 04:23:14 PM
I don't think anything is having an effect right now.  No one is paying attention and the numbers bouncing around are mostly noise.

Pretty well frozen nationally at Obama + 4.

And it will probably stay that way except for a short time when the VP's are chosen and then finally get some real action happening when the conventions start.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 03, 2008, 12:52:36 PM
Thursday, July 3, 2008

Obama - 47% (+1)
McCain - 43% (-1)

As would be expected from any methodology involving repeated sampling from a large population, there have been slight fluctuations in the daily reports of Gallup Poll Daily tracking rolling averages (each based on three days worth of interviewing of over 2,500 registered voters), but little indication for weeks now of substantive change in the structure of the race. The preferences of registered voters between the two major party candidates remain closely divided, with Obama usually polling within a few percentage points of 46%, and McCain polling within a few points of 43%.

Gallup will conduct interviews Thursday, July 3, but will not interview on July 4. The report on the three-day rolling average for Tuesday through Thursday will be posted on gallup.com on Saturday, July 5.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 05, 2008, 12:11:30 PM
Saturday, July 5, 2008

Obama - 47% (nc)
McCain - 42% (-1)

Today's three-day rolling average is based on interviewing from July 1-3, 2008. About 5% of voters say they will not vote for either major party candidate while an additional 6% are undecided.

Except for a brief period a week ago when McCain and Obama were tied in voter preference, Obama has had the slight upper hand in the race since Gallup's June 6 report, leading McCain by one to seven percentage points. The last time McCain had any numerical advantage over Obama was in Gallup's June 5 report when he was one percentage point ahead, 46% to 45%. However, the last time McCain had a statistically significant lead was in early May.

Gallup did not conduct daily tracking interviewing on the July 4 holiday. Thus, tomorrow's report will be based on interviews conducted July 2-3 and July 5.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 06, 2008, 12:15:35 PM
Sunday, July 6, 2008

Obama - 48% (+1)
McCain - 42% (nc)

Today's three-day rolling average is based on interviewing conducted in the two days before the July 4 holiday, July 2-3, and Saturday, July 5 (no interviewing was conducted on July 4). About 5% of voters say they will not vote for either major party candidate while an additional 6% are undecided.

News organizations over the last several days have given extensive play to the precise wording of various Obama statements concerning what he would do regarding withdrawal of troops from Iraq were he to be elected president. So far, there is little sign in the Gallup Poll Daily tracking that this has made a difference in the preferences of registered voters. Of course, it is to be expected that voters' attention is turned elsewhere over a holiday weekend, so a major shift in the standing of the two candidates would be an unusual occurrence. Until the vice presidential nominees are announced and/or the Democratic convention begins in late August, the twin efforts of the campaigns to influence voter perceptions of the race and of the news media to find something new and compelling to say about the race will be competing for what could be sparse voter attention.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on July 06, 2008, 12:21:36 PM
barack obama is completely unstoppable


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on July 06, 2008, 06:09:01 PM
Economic distress is dissolving American racism.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: exopolitician on July 06, 2008, 08:42:56 PM
Obama "refining" his Iraq Policy doesnt seem to be having an affect [either way] on his numbers...with the media pounding away at it im kinda surprised.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on July 06, 2008, 09:07:58 PM
Obama "refining" his Iraq Policy doesnt seem to be having an affect [either way] on his numbers...with the media pounding away at it im kinda surprised.

The media is doing everything they can to get John McCain elected... and Obama still leads by 5+ points?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 07, 2008, 07:27:58 PM
Monday, July 7, 2008

Obama - 47% (-1)
McCain - 43% (+1)

Interviews for this latest three-day rolling average were conducted July 3 and 5-6. Obama's four-point advantage over McCain matches his average over the past week.

Obama has held the upper hand in voter preferences over the last month for all but three days, with his lead reaching as much as seven percentage points. This essentially spans the time since Obama wrapped up the Democratic nomination.

McCain enjoyed a similar run in March after he clinched the GOP nomination, maintaining at least a slim numerical advantage for 19 consecutive days, though only by as many as four points during this time.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 08, 2008, 10:12:10 AM
Religious Intensity Predicts Support for McCain [8 July, 2008]

Hispanic Catholics and black Protestants provide notable exceptions

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108688/Religious-Intensity-Predicts-Support-McCain.aspx

Is religion important in your life? Who do you support in the presidential election?

Religion is important in my life (about two-thirds): Obama 40%; McCain 50%
Religion is NOT important in my life (about one-third) : Obama 55%; McCain 36%

Among non-Hispanic whites who are Protestants/non-Catholic Christians:

Important: Obama 27%; McCain 63%
NOT important: Obama 45%; McCain 46%

Among non-Hispanic white Catholics:

Important: Obama 37%; McCain 53%
NOT important: Obama 47%; McCain 45%

Among white Hispanic Catholics:

Important: Obama 57%; McCain 31%
NOT important: Obama 63%; McCain 30%

Among black non-Catholic Christians:

Important: Obama 90%; McCain 4%
NOT important: Obama 92%; McCain 4%

Among Jewish Americans:

Important: Obama 45%; McCain 45%
NOT important: Obama 68%; McCain 26%

Among those of other, non-Christian and non-Jewish religions:

Important: Obama 60%; McCain 30%
NOT important: Obama 68%; McCain 23%

Among those not identifying with a religion:

Important: Obama 61%; McCain 28%
NOT important (89%): Obama 65%; McCain 26%

Aggregate of Gallup Polls, March to June 2008

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 08, 2008, 12:18:20 PM
Tuesday, July 8, 2008

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 44% (+1)

Obama's lead has been as great as seven percentage points over the past month, but has averaged only three points thus far in July, identical to his average lead for the month of June.

The fact that Obama has consistently held an advantage over McCain among registered voters in Gallup Poll Daily tracking since early June suggests that he could very well win the election were it held today (depending on voter turnout patterns). The important question, however, and one addressed in detail Monday on Gallup.com, is whether his consistently narrow lead at this point in mid-summer bodes well for him in November.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108676/July-Leader-Lost-Last-Competitive-US-Elections.aspx

In essence, the Gallup analysis finds that races that appear closely contested at the start of the summer tend to stay close for the duration of the campaign, up to and including Election Day. This describes the 2004, 2000, 1980, and 1960 elections.

The exceptions to this are years when, after being closely matched in early to mid-July, one of the candidates jumps into the lead following his party's national convention over the summer. In these cases -- including Bill Clinton in 1992, George H.W. Bush in 1988, and Richard Nixon in 1968 -- the candidate getting the big boost out of his convention ultimately won.


 Come on Barack get that boost at Denver  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on July 08, 2008, 12:41:09 PM
Meh, another Pro-McCain sample on the way of passing through ...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on July 08, 2008, 12:51:57 PM
just more bumping around - the race has not fundamentally changed at all, and probably will not change for another month.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: agcatter on July 08, 2008, 01:03:54 PM
Amazingly stable thru the summer.  A 4 to 5 point race since the ist part of June.  Not even worth looking at the tracking polls until the conventions.  There will be no change.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on July 08, 2008, 02:00:19 PM
Amazingly stable thru the summer.  A 4 to 5 point race since the ist part of June.  Not even worth looking at the tracking polls until the conventions.  There will be no change.

Don't you keep saying that you're done with tracking polls?  :P

I think we're both having the same problem.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reaganfan on July 08, 2008, 02:24:45 PM
I can't believe McCain has been asleep and the race is essentially tied.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on July 08, 2008, 02:26:01 PM
I can't believe McCain has been asleep and the race is essentially tied.
It's really not.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: agcatter on July 08, 2008, 03:07:54 PM
Alcon, I have to admit I can't help glancing at them.

I need help.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reaganfan on July 08, 2008, 03:12:10 PM
I can't believe McCain has been asleep and the race is essentially tied.
It's really not.

Of course it is, can't you read? Obama should be ahead by 15-20 pts.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on July 08, 2008, 03:13:33 PM
I can't believe McCain has been asleep and the race is essentially tied.
It's really not.

Of course it is, can't you read? Obama should be ahead by 15-20 pts.
Regardless of how much he "should" be ahead by, the race is not essentially tied. Obama's been consistently ahead since the primary ended.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on July 08, 2008, 03:13:57 PM
Be patient, folks...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on July 08, 2008, 04:44:39 PM
I can't believe McCain has been asleep and the race is essentially tied.
It's really not.

Of course it is, can't you read? Obama should be ahead by 15-20 pts.

Oh please.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 08, 2008, 07:41:11 PM
There may not be any major movement until after the conventions; though the Veep choices could see them bounce a little here and there

Right now, it's not too difficult to conceive young, dynamic, fresh, visionary Obama receiving a substantial bounce post-Denver. Not so sure about the lackluster McCain, who could lose ground post-St Paul as his acceptance speech falls flat

I don't buy the opinion that Obama should be ahead by 15 to 20 points. He is yet to cross, as Charlie Cook puts it, the "acceptability threshold". The time for Obama to address the "risk" factor that comes with insurgent candidates will be in the head to head debates with McCain; and, as we know, Obama can be underwhelming in debates. Hope he's got his best Devil's Advocate out there with him :)

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 09, 2008, 08:07:16 AM
Obama Gaining Among Voters With Less Formal Education [9 July, 2008]

Has erased deficit to McCain

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108709/Obama-Gaining-Among-Voters-Less-Formal-Education.aspx

1. High school educations or less

Mar 2008: Obama 40%; McCain 47%
Apr 2008: Obama 41%; McCain 45%
May 2008: Obama 43%; McCain 46%

Jun 2008: Obama 43%; McCain 43%. By subgroup:

Men: Obama 42%; McCain 46%
Women: 44%; McCain 40%
White: Obama 34%; McCain 51%
Nonwhite: Obama 73%; McCain 17%

2. Some college: Obama 46%; McCain 44%

3. College graduates with non-post graduate education: Obama 47%; McCain 45%

4. Postgraduate eduction: Obama 43%; McCain 40%. By gender:

Men: Obama 46%; McCain 47%
Women: Obama 61%; McCain 32%

Monthy aggregated Gallup Poll Daily tracking data

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 10, 2008, 08:47:37 AM
Wednesday, July 9, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 10, 2008, 11:58:48 AM
Wednesday, July 9, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)



I heard one of the talking heads saying that Obama tends to pick up on the weekends; we'll see what happens this week.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 10, 2008, 12:34:19 PM
Thursday, July 10, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 43% (-1)




Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 11, 2008, 12:20:20 PM
Friday, July 11, 2008

Obama - 48% (+2)
McCain - 42% (-1)

Obama has typically held a modest advantage over McCain since early June. The six percentage point lead in the latest results, based on July 8-10 polling, ranks among the presumptive Democratic nominee's bigger leads, just one point shy of a high seven-point lead in June 7-9 polling.

In the last two weeks, Obama's share of the vote has ranged between 46% and 48%, while McCain's has ranged from 42% to 44%. So while preferences have not shifted dramatically, Obama enjoys a larger lead in the latest report because his support is now at the upper end of his recent range while McCain's is at the lower end of his.

The numbers for the last three individual nights of polling have been consistent -- with Obama's advantage over McCain ranging from four to seven points -- further reinforcing the notion that preferences at this point of the campaign are quite stable.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on July 11, 2008, 12:58:23 PM
Gallup and Rasmussen, once again, agreeing to disagree. (Which mostly just shows that there are no trendlines to be drawn, and things are steady at about Obama+4/5.)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on July 12, 2008, 12:03:31 PM
Saturday - July 12, 2008:

Obama - 47% (-1)
McCain - 43% (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Flying Dog on July 12, 2008, 12:07:30 PM
(yawn)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 13, 2008, 08:29:23 AM
Fewer Americans See McCain, Obama Views as "About Right" [11 July, 2008]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108775/Fewer-Americans-See-McCain-Obama-Views-About-Right.aspx

Do you think John McCain's political views are too conservative, about right or too liberal?

USA Today/Gallup polls, June 15-19, 2008, [and Feb. 8-10, 2008]

Too conservative: 40% [30%]. Among Republicans 20% [10%]; Independents 41% [33%]; Democrats 57% [43%]

About right: 37% [42%]. Among Republicans 60% [63%]; Independents 34% [42%]; Democrats 21% [26%]

Too liberal: 15% [20%]

Do you think Barack Obama's political views are too conservative, about right or too liberal?

USA Today/Gallup polls, June 15-19, 2008, [and Feb. 8-10, 2008]

Too conservative: 9% [8%]

About right: 43% [47%]. Among Republicans 15% [28%]; Independents 44% [49%]; Democrats 68% [58%]

Too liberal: 40% [37%]. Among Republicans 75% [65%]; Independents 36% [33%]; Democrats 15% [20%]

How concerned are you that John McCain and Barack Obama may be too closely aligned with people who hold radical political views?

USA Today / Gallup poll, June 15-19, 2008

Very concerned: McCain 17%; Obama 28%
Somewhat concerned: McCain 25%; Obama 24%
Not too concerned: McCain 30%; Obama 23%
Not at all concerned: McCain 27%; Obama 24%

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 13, 2008, 12:42:43 PM
Sunday, July 13, 2008

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 43% (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 13, 2008, 12:58:20 PM
My guess was a four point race, possibly some slight erosion from mid June.  We'll see if it's dropped for a 4-6 point race to a 2-4 or tied-2 point race by mid week.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on July 13, 2008, 02:00:18 PM
Sunday, July 13, 2008

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 43% (nc)

Today marks the 14th straight Gallup Poll Daily tracking report in which 46% to 48% of voters favor Obama, and between 42% and 44% favor McCain. This narrow zone has given Obama a continuous, but fairly slim, lead over the two-week period.

Obama also held a slim lead for most of June (averaging three percentage points), although he led by a six to seven point margin for three days at the start of June. The two candidates were tied for a brief period in late June, but the last time McCain held a significant lead over Obama was in early May.


First, the element of time is all too often underestimated in political calculations.

A candidate who trails for an extended period of time tends to find his financial resources stunted, his workers dispirited, and himself depressed (and more likely to do something stupid).

Second, the Gallup poll you are using is a "registered voter" poll, and as such understates the real Obama lead as "likely" voters are more likely to favor Obama over McCain than registered voters.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on July 13, 2008, 02:19:21 PM
Sunday, July 13, 2008

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 43% (nc)

This begs the question - Could this be the end of John McCain's campaign?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on July 13, 2008, 03:00:57 PM
Sunday, July 13, 2008

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 43% (nc)

This begs the question - Could this be the end of John McCain's campaign?

I'm not sure, but McCain will have to spend a lot of time and money in Mississippi, North Carolina, Montana, North Dakota, and Kansas incase they flip.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Flying Dog on July 13, 2008, 04:08:41 PM
Obama is building up a huge campaign infrastructure in the swing states while you guys dither about making sarcastic remarks about states that most likely won't flip.

Hey, maybe I discovered Obama's campaign strategy. Spent a little money in places like MS and GA to get the Republicans making sarcastic remarks about them while they could be attacking him on real issues. Genius. :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on July 13, 2008, 04:12:18 PM
Second, the Gallup poll you are using is a "registered voter" poll, and as such understates the real Obama lead as "likely" voters are more likely to favor Obama over McCain than registered voters.

Now this is just blantaly false spin. McCain would lead if they used a likely voter format because Obama's supporters(blacks and kids) are less likely to vote than McCain supporters(conservatives and seniors).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on July 13, 2008, 04:12:28 PM
Obama is building up a huge campaign infrastructure in the swing states while you guys dither about making sarcastic remarks about states that most likely won't flip.

Good thing I'm not in charge of running McCain's campaign.  ;)

That does remind me though...I'll start doing my part to help McCain get elected tomorrow. The Philadelphia HQs opens tomorrow afternoon and it's only ten minutes from my house. It's based right in the middle of one of those swing blue collar areas that happened to be Hillary's base in the city.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on July 13, 2008, 04:20:42 PM
Second, the Gallup poll you are using is a "registered voter" poll, and as such understates the real Obama lead as "likely" voters are more likely to favor Obama over McCain than registered voters.

Now this is just blantaly false spin. McCain would lead if they used a likely voter format because Obama's supporters(blacks and kids) are less likely to vote than McCain supporters(conservatives and seniors).

You really need to look at the facts!

While, in most elections, Republican candidates typically perform better among "likely voters" than among "registered voters," McCain is an exception.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Flying Dog on July 13, 2008, 04:21:50 PM
Obama is building up a huge campaign infrastructure in the swing states while you guys dither about making sarcastic remarks about states that most likely won't flip.

Good thing I'm not in charge of running McCain's campaign.  ;)

That does remind me though...I'll start doing my part to help McCain get elected tomorrow. The Philadelphia HQs opens tomorrow afternoon and it's only ten minutes from my house. It's based right in the middle of one of those swing blue collar areas that happened to be Hillary's base in the city.

Lucky. Our County HQ hasn't opened yet so I'm forced to go to the part-time one in Sagnasty, I mean Saginaw, and they force me to do Voter Reg. in the ghetto.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on July 13, 2008, 04:24:39 PM
Obama is building up a huge campaign infrastructure in the swing states while you guys dither about making sarcastic remarks about states that most likely won't flip.

Good thing I'm not in charge of running McCain's campaign.  ;)

That does remind me though...I'll start doing my part to help McCain get elected tomorrow. The Philadelphia HQs opens tomorrow afternoon and it's only ten minutes from my house. It's based right in the middle of one of those swing blue collar areas that happened to be Hillary's base in the city.

Lucky. Our County HQ hasn't opened yet so I'm forced to go to the part-time one in Sagnasty, I mean Saginaw, and they force me to do Voter Reg. in the ghetto.

Well, my real volunteer work won't start tomorrow. I'm just going to check out the place and pick up a few things which means I have to help out a bit. I know a few of the guys running the show for McCain in SE PA so I get all the local e-mail updates. They mentioned a bunch of things to do tomorrow including putting together some lawn signs. The fact of the matter is that I need a few signs for myself and some others but can't just be an asshole, walk in, pick them up and leave.  :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on July 13, 2008, 04:47:31 PM
Second, the Gallup poll you are using is a "registered voter" poll, and as such understates the real Obama lead as "likely" voters are more likely to favor Obama over McCain than registered voters.

Now this is just blantaly false spin. McCain would lead if they used a likely voter format because Obama's supporters(blacks and kids) are less likely to vote than McCain supporters(conservatives and seniors).

Not spin, simple fact.

While it is true that Republican candidates typically do better among likely voters than among registered voters, McCain is an exception.

While I could cite several polls, different dates and methodologies could be used to explain the discrepencies, so, I cite Gallup, who had both likely and registered results in the June 19, 2008 poll.  Here are the results:

        Registered Voters                                Likely Voters
McCain     Obama     Difference         McCain     Obama     Difference

  44%         46%            3%                44%         50%            6%

Now, if you look at a variety of polls, you will see that there is a drastic difference in the enthusiasm of the supporters of Obama versus McCain.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on July 13, 2008, 04:50:26 PM
Obama is building up a huge campaign infrastructure in the swing states while you guys dither about making sarcastic remarks about states that most likely won't flip.

Good thing I'm not in charge of running McCain's campaign.  ;)

That does remind me though...I'll start doing my part to help McCain get elected tomorrow. The Philadelphia HQs opens tomorrow afternoon and it's only ten minutes from my house. It's based right in the middle of one of those swing blue collar areas that happened to be Hillary's base in the city.

Lucky. Our County HQ hasn't opened yet so I'm forced to go to the part-time one in Sagnasty, I mean Saginaw, and they force me to do Voter Reg. in the ghetto.

Well, my real volunteer work won't start tomorrow. I'm just going to check out the place and pick up a few things which means I have to help out a bit. I know a few of the guys running the show for McCain in SE PA so I get all the local e-mail updates. They mentioned a bunch of things to do tomorrow including putting together some lawn signs. The fact of the matter is that I need a few signs for myself and some others but can't just be an asshole, walk in, pick them up and leave.  :P

When you go in, don't tell them you're a Republican (or a sort of conservative), or they'll probably tell you to leave.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 14, 2008, 07:27:03 PM
Monday, July 14, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 43% (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 14, 2008, 08:13:04 PM
My guess is less than 4 points, probably 2-3, for Obama.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on July 15, 2008, 12:06:06 PM
Tuesday - July 15, 2008:

Obama - 47% (+1)
McCain - 43% (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 15, 2008, 01:26:49 PM
It looks like my guess was pretty good.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on July 16, 2008, 12:08:18 PM
Wednesday - July 16, 2008:

Obama - 47% (nc)
McCain - 44% (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 16, 2008, 08:34:09 PM
Obama Maintaining Support Among Liberals [16 July, 2008]

Support may be increasing slightly

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108859/Obama-Maintaining-Support-Among-Liberals.aspx

Presidential Trial Heat Vote, By Party and Ideology, July 7-13 Gallup Daily Tracking

Liberal Democrats: Obama 92%; McCain 5%

Moderate Democrats: Obama 79%; McCain 10%

Conservative Democrats: Obama 68%; McCain 20%

Moderate/Liberal Republicans: Obama 20%; McCain 73%

Conservative Republicans: Obama 6%; McCain 90%

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nutmeg on July 17, 2008, 12:06:10 AM
Liberal Democrats: Obama 92%; McCain 5%

Conservative Republicans: Obama 6%; McCain 90%

It seems there's always a percentage of people who just have no idea what's going on or who enjoy screwing with pollsters who bother them at home.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on July 17, 2008, 12:14:19 AM
Well, 1 or 2% of that is probably Clinton or Huckabee/Romney/Paul supporters who are still disgruntled.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MarkWarner08 on July 17, 2008, 12:16:59 AM
Liberal Democrats: Obama 92%; McCain 5%

Conservative Republicans: Obama 6%; McCain 90%

It seems there's always a percentage of people who just have no idea what's going on or who enjoy screwing with pollsters who bother them at home.
Yeah. Like the 3% of Rhode Island voters who approved of George Bush and  then voted for Sheldon Whitehouse.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 17, 2008, 01:06:56 PM

Thursday - July 17, 2008:

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 44% (nc)


Just reported on MSNBC


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 17, 2008, 01:18:27 PM
While last week it appeared to be 4-6 point race, it now appears to be 0-3 point race.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on July 17, 2008, 02:51:35 PM
Yeah. I wonder why. Perhaps its cyclical. I just don't see why McCain is doing well now when Obama is ahead in places like Colorado and Virginia and that McCain is struggling in the Northern Plains. My guess is that the campaign has just died down. Still, non-trackers show a 4-7 point race.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 18, 2008, 12:38:55 PM
Friday, July 18, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Obama still holds a slight edge, but with just 45% of registered voters saying they would vote for him in November, versus 44% for McCain. McCain's current support, based on Gallup Poll Daily tracking conducted July 15-17, falls at the upper end of the 42% to 44% range seen for him since late June.

The dip in support for Obama to 45% from 46% in Thursday's report and from 47% earlier this week (when he held a four percentage point lead over McCain) is not statistically significant. It will be important to see whether today's figures are maintained for several days before it can be determined that the race has narrowed to a virtual tie.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 18, 2008, 04:01:31 PM
Both Gallup and Rasmussen agree.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on July 19, 2008, 12:30:36 PM
Saturday - July 19, 2008:

Obama - 45% (nc)
McCain - 43% (-1)

These results are based on interviews conducted July 16-18. In Friday's report, Barack Obama's support fell out of the narrow 46%-48% range it had been in for the prior 18 reports, and remains outside that range today. However, Obama had a stronger night in Friday interviewing and could inch back into that range with another strong performance tonight.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on July 19, 2008, 12:40:05 PM
Obama usually does better on summer weekend polling.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on July 19, 2008, 01:57:29 PM
Obama is really running away with this race!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 19, 2008, 02:10:21 PM
The "strong night" might the weekend shift seen in previous weeks.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Umengus on July 19, 2008, 05:29:15 PM
and for likely voters ?  it stays the best for me. I don't care about RV who will not vote. Go in hell !


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on July 19, 2008, 05:33:56 PM
and for likely voters ?  it stays the best for me. I don't care about RV who will not vote. Go in hell !

LV's tend to get more useful as election season goes on, and RV less so.  Early on, ignoring RV's in favor of LV's is potentially a bad idea.

RV's that aren't LV's are not unlikely voters.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on July 20, 2008, 12:02:34 PM
Sunday - July 20, 2008:

Obama - 45% (nc)
McCain - 42% (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on July 20, 2008, 12:10:08 PM
It isn't just a coincidence that Obama's lead increases over the weekend every time in the Gallup poll.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Beet on July 20, 2008, 01:41:17 PM
Again, the large number of undecideds (13 in this poll) is remarkable, if not unique for Gallup.

I'm guessing a lot of traditionally Democratic working class whites and suburban moderates who are sick of Repubs and would normally be going for the Dem nominee are staying undecided. In places like West Virginia, Ohio and New Hampshire, these voters broke against Obama in the closing days.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 20, 2008, 01:48:44 PM
We need to wait to Wednesday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on July 20, 2008, 03:00:56 PM
Again, the large number of undecideds (13 in this poll) is remarkable, if not unique for Gallup.

I'm guessing a lot of traditionally Democratic working class whites and suburban moderates who are sick of Repubs and would normally be going for the Dem nominee are staying undecided. In places like West Virginia, Ohio and New Hampshire, these voters broke against Obama in the closing days.

And they are undecided because Obama is a flawed candidate.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Umengus on July 20, 2008, 05:16:39 PM
and for likely voters ?  it stays the best for me. I don't care about RV who will not vote. Go in hell !

LV's tend to get more useful as election season goes on, and RV less so.  Early on, ignoring RV's in favor of LV's is potentially a bad idea.

RV's that aren't LV's are not unlikely voters.

what then ?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on July 20, 2008, 05:21:34 PM
and for likely voters ?  it stays the best for me. I don't care about RV who will not vote. Go in hell !

LV's tend to get more useful as election season goes on, and RV less so.  Early on, ignoring RV's in favor of LV's is potentially a bad idea.

RV's that aren't LV's are not unlikely voters.

what then ?

Well, any voter who fails the LV screen...that doesn't mean they are unlikely to vote, necessarily.  Plenty of them will vote.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Beet on July 20, 2008, 05:25:29 PM
Again, the large number of undecideds (13 in this poll) is remarkable, if not unique for Gallup.

I'm guessing a lot of traditionally Democratic working class whites and suburban moderates who are sick of Repubs and would normally be going for the Dem nominee are staying undecided. In places like West Virginia, Ohio and New Hampshire, these voters broke against Obama in the closing days.

And they are undecided because Obama is a flawed candidate.

There is no such thing as a non-flawed candidate, and if there was, I would be highly suspicious of him or her. As opposed to a lot of people, my opinion of Obama actually improved after he showed that he's not perfect.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 20, 2008, 05:26:35 PM
Again, the large number of undecideds (13 in this poll) is remarkable, if not unique for Gallup.

I'm guessing a lot of traditionally Democratic working class whites and suburban moderates who are sick of Repubs and would normally be going for the Dem nominee are staying undecided.

The undecideds could well be waiting to see whether or not Obama crosses their "acceptability threshold" and if he does they'll likely break his way and he wins; but if not ...

Quote
In places like West Virginia, Ohio and New Hampshire, these voters broke against Obama in the closing days.

Only then it was Democrat vs Democrat ... I'm far from certain but I'd guess that, nationally, those Democratic primary voters who were most concerned about the economy favored Clinton

Far from this race being Obama's to lose, it's Obama's to win and he's not there yet because, rightly or wrongly, McCain's standing is, well, higher than that of his president and party. He has a compelling story to tell of war heroism :) (not that it mattered in 2000); as well as the reputation for being a "maverick" - whatever ::)

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Beet on July 20, 2008, 05:30:11 PM
Again, the large number of undecideds (13 in this poll) is remarkable, if not unique for Gallup.

I'm guessing a lot of traditionally Democratic working class whites and suburban moderates who are sick of Repubs and would normally be going for the Dem nominee are staying undecided.

The undecideds could well be waiting to see whether or not Obama crosses their "acceptability threshold" and if he does they'll likely break his way and he wins; but if not ...

Yeah, I think so. Part of this is the "Commander in Chief" threshold that was much talked about earlier in the year. This is going to be a sticking point for Obama because of his background & relative inexperience, something that still must be handled (along with whatever the GOP attack plan is for August & September). Hence, the necessity of his going overseas.

Quote
Quote
In places like West Virginia, Ohio and New Hampshire, these voters broke against Obama in the closing days.

Only then it was Democrat vs Democrat ... I'm far from certain but I'd guess that, nationally, those Democratic primary voters who were most concerned about the economy favored Clinton

Far from this race being Obama's to lose, it's Obama's to win and he's not there yet because, rightly or wrongly, McCain's standing is, well, higher than that of his president and party. He has a compelling story to tell of war heroism :) (not that it mattered in 2000); as well as the reputation for being a "maverick" - whatever ::)

Yeah pretty much.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on July 21, 2008, 01:16:21 PM
Monday July 21, 2008:

Obama - 47% (+2)
McCain - 41% (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on July 21, 2008, 01:54:42 PM
Well, Gallup and Rasmussen disagree completely again. Hooray!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on July 21, 2008, 03:41:16 PM
This is a complete weekend sample in Gallup polling. Obama's numbers have ALWAYS been inflated on weekends so far.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on July 21, 2008, 03:49:52 PM
This is a complete weekend sample in Gallup polling.

Unless it's a long weekend, that's never going to be the case.  Gallup is a three-day tracker.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 21, 2008, 04:04:34 PM
This is a complete weekend sample in Gallup polling.

Unless it's a long weekend, that's never going to be the case.  Gallup is a three-day tracker.

Saturday, Sunday and Monday, the reported on Tuesday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on July 21, 2008, 04:05:10 PM
This is a complete weekend sample in Gallup polling.

Unless it's a long weekend, that's never going to be the case.  Gallup is a three-day tracker.

Are people going to vote in November on a weekend?  That's the big question.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on July 21, 2008, 04:05:40 PM
This is a complete weekend sample in Gallup polling.

Unless it's a long weekend, that's never going to be the case.  Gallup is a three-day tracker.

Saturday, Sunday and Monday, the reported on Tuesday.

Err?

It's Monday.  This poll is Friday-Sunday.  So, it's not "all-weekend."  I don't think last Friday was a holiday, was it?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on July 21, 2008, 04:07:29 PM
This is a complete weekend sample in Gallup polling.

Unless it's a long weekend, that's never going to be the case.  Gallup is a three-day tracker.

Saturday, Sunday and Monday, the reported on Tuesday.

Err?

It's Monday.  This poll is Friday-Sunday.  So, it's not "all-weekend."  I don't think last Friday was a holiday, was it?

Friday is part of the weekend. People are out doing things, do you really think that is a good time to poll?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 21, 2008, 04:10:43 PM
This is a complete weekend sample in Gallup polling.

Unless it's a long weekend, that's never going to be the case.  Gallup is a three-day tracker.

Saturday, Sunday and Monday, the reported on Tuesday.

Err?

It's Monday.  This poll is Friday-Sunday.  So, it's not "all-weekend."  I don't think last Friday was a holiday, was it?

Ah, I should have ckecked the calendar.

Still, you have 2 days from the weekend in this and tomorrow's sample.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 21, 2008, 05:53:57 PM
This is a complete weekend sample in Gallup polling.

That it is. From gallup:

These results are based on July 18-20 polling, including two days since Obama began his much publicized overseas trip to visit the Middle East, Afghanistan, and Europe. It is unclear at this point whether the trip will boost Obama's poll standing, but his performance in Sunday interviewing was one of his stronger in Gallup Poll Daily tracking, and his current six percentage point lead is among the largest he has held over McCain to date. Tuesday's Gallup Poll Daily tracking report will be the first in which all interviews were conducted since Obama began his trip abroad.

Since Obama clinched the Democratic presidential nomination in early June, he has typically held an advantage over McCain, which has averaged three points, but been as large as seven points.

The current results also mark the first time in more than three weeks that McCain's share of the trial heat vote has not been in the 42% to 44% range. In fact, it matches a June 7-9 reading as McCain's lowest level of support since Gallup began tracking general election preferences in March.


Quote
Obama's numbers have ALWAYS been inflated on weekends so far.

They've tended to be higher at weekends; but whether or not weekend polling is any more or less 'accurate' than weekday polling I don't know

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on July 22, 2008, 12:51:18 PM
It could simply be the case that Obama's base is simply much busier than McCain's. This could help McCain since the election is on Tuesday, but the enthusaism gap is so big that it might not even matter.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on July 22, 2008, 12:56:47 PM
It could simply be the case that Obama's base is simply much busier than McCain's. This could help McCain since the election is on Tuesday, but the enthusaism gap is so big that it might not even matter.

Busier with what?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 22, 2008, 01:35:16 PM
Tuesday, July 22, 2008:

Obama - 45% (-2)
McCain - 42% (+1)

Obama performed above par with voters in two of the last four days of Gallup Poll Daily tracking, spanning a period of heavy news coverage of his overseas trip to Europe, Afghanistan, and the Middle East. This resulted in the race widening slightly to a difference of six percentage points in Monday's report based on interviewing conducted July 18-20. However, interviewing Monday night showed a closer race, suggesting that the question of how much bounce Obama may receive from his trip is still an open one.

Longer term, the race has been quite stable. Obama's current 3-point lead in the race is nearly identical to the average lead he has held over McCain thus far in July, and matches his 3-point advantage in the race for the month of June.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 22, 2008, 02:20:18 PM
Do the terms "0-3 point race" and "weekends" ring a bell to anyone?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Gustaf on July 22, 2008, 03:31:22 PM
It could simply be the case that Obama's base is simply much busier than McCain's. This could help McCain since the election is on Tuesday, but the enthusaism gap is so big that it might not even matter.

1: McCain's base are almost certainly busier than Obama's.
2: the candidate with the more enthusiastic supporters is not necessarily underestimated in polling. I think the opposite is more likely.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on July 22, 2008, 03:32:48 PM
Do the terms "0-3 point race" and "weekends" ring a bell to anyone?
do the terms "arrogant" and "broken record" ring a bell to anyone?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on July 22, 2008, 04:40:07 PM
The friday polling sample dropped off on this average. Too bad elections aren't held on weekends or Obama would win by 10 points.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on July 23, 2008, 07:12:45 AM
The friday polling sample dropped off on this average. Too bad elections aren't held on weekends or Obama would win by 10 points.

It is too bad. It would allow a lot more people to vote.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 23, 2008, 12:22:05 PM
Wednesday, July 23, 2008:

Obama - 46% (+1)
McCain - 42% (nc)

The big news from Gallup Poll Daily tracking is the continuing stability of this race. Many observers (and based on its reaction, the McCain campaign itself) have hypothesized that Obama could have the chance of making a major breakthrough in voter sentiment as a result of the streaming video and photos and news coverage of the Illinois senator with U.S. troops, military commanders, and foreign leaders. As of Tuesday night's interviewing, however, this has not materialized.

Perhaps the signal event of Obama's overseas trip will be a forthcoming speech before tens of thousands in Germany later this week. It remains to be seen whether or not news coverage of this speech will alter the support patterns among American voters.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 23, 2008, 01:15:35 PM
Do the terms "0-3 point race" and "weekends" ring a bell to anyone?
do the terms "arrogant" and "broken record" ring a bell to anyone?

I'm not too sure about "arrogant," basically, because I was quoting your post, IIRC, just expanding the margin either way. 

As for "broken record," some skipping, but not entirely broken.  There was a bit of tightening last week, but not sure it's there this week. It might be ranging up to 1-4 or 2-5 points.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Flying Dog on July 23, 2008, 02:30:32 PM
Why are the tracking polls showing a closer race than the one-time polls that have Obama up by 6-7%? Which one's should we trust?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 24, 2008, 12:38:10 PM
Thursday, July 24, 2008:

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 43% (+1)

Obama's much anticipated overseas trip enters its sixth day, but so far it has not meaningfully affected the choice for president voters would make if the election were held today. Obama has held a modest advantage over McCain for all but a few days (in which the candidates were precisely tied) since he clinched the Democratic nomination in early June.

Today, Obama will give what is considered to be the major speech of his trip in Berlin, Germany. McCain was planning to give a major speech of his own today from an oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico, but that had to be canceled due to the after-effects of Hurricane Dolly.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on July 24, 2008, 12:40:00 PM
Why are the tracking polls showing a closer race than the one-time polls that have Obama up by 6-7%? Which one's should we trust?

Neither... its July


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on July 24, 2008, 12:42:18 PM
Why are the tracking polls showing a closer race than the one-time polls that have Obama up by 6-7%? Which one's should we trust?

Truthfully, the tracking polls, simply because they are going to be less subject to bad samples (and the bad samples will exit the actual result over time).

But at this point in the campaign, it's fair enough to believe whatever you want.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 24, 2008, 12:47:43 PM
Probably close to +2 Obama, same as last week.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 24, 2008, 07:36:25 PM
Obama Gains Over McCain in Swing States Since June [23 July, 2008]

Gap has moved at least 3 points in his favor in all state groups since June

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109036/Obama-Gains-Over-McCain-Swing-States-Since-June.aspx

Barack Obama - John McCain Vote Preference in Red, Blue and Purple States

Based on Gallup Poll Daily Tracking March - May

Blue (Democratic) states: Obama 53% (52%); McCain 37% (39%)

Purple (competitive) states: Obama 48% (46%); McCain 40% (44%)

Red (Republican) states: Obama 40% (39%); McCain 50% (52%)

And he's winning Britons, French and Germans by a landslide :P

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109018/Britons-French-Germans-Solidly-Back-Obama.aspx

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on July 25, 2008, 03:06:24 AM
Why are the tracking polls showing a closer race than the one-time polls that have Obama up by 6-7%? Which one's should we trust?

Truthfully, the tracking polls, simply because they are going to be less subject to bad samples (and the bad samples will exit the actual result over time).

But at this point in the campaign, it's fair enough to believe whatever you want.  :)

I'd agree with your first statement, but, regarding the second statement, if someone "believes" McCain is going to carry the District of Columbia, or Obama will carry Utah, they really need a reality check.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on July 25, 2008, 03:12:49 AM
Carl, I have an honest question: Are national polls necessarily more immune from bad samples?  Or do little pockets of weakness (cell-only, non-response, multiple landlines etc.) expose themselves more in a national poll?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Gustaf on July 25, 2008, 05:34:33 AM
Carl, I have an honest question: Are national polls necessarily more immune from bad samples?  Or do little pockets of weakness (cell-only, non-response, multiple landlines etc.) expose themselves more in a national poll?

Do you mean national as opposed to tracking or national as opposed to state?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 25, 2008, 12:10:14 PM
Friday, July 25, 2008:

Obama - 47% (+2)
McCain - 41% (-2)

Obama's current lead matches his lead in the Gallup Poll Daily tracking rolling average for July 18-20, Friday through Sunday of last week. A six percentage point lead for Obama, also measured at several other points in July and June, is the highest he has enjoyed since he had a 7-point advantage over McCain in early June (which, in turn, was Obama's largest lead of the campaign).

The key question at this particular point in the campaign concerns the impact, if any, of this unusual week during which Obama conducted his highly-publicized world tour while McCain attempted to grab back part of the media spotlight by conducting domestic events and taking the opportunity to make critical comments about his presumed Democratic opponent.

European residents certainly evince a strong sentiment in favor of Obama winning the U.S. presidency -- much higher than the pro-Obama sentiment here at home. Gallup polling shows that residents of Germany, France, and the United Kingdom by very large margins would rather see Obama win instead of McCain. Residents of the U.S. have been favoring Obama by just about three points. The key is the degree to which the sentiments of European residents might "rub off" on U.S. voters as they have the opportunity to absorb news coverage of Obama's trip.

In a broad sense, there are several ways that Obama's European trip could affect U.S. voters:

1. Obama's trip could end up being the basis for a shift in voter preferences to the point where he pulls into a sustained lead over McCain. This could occur on a delayed basis. It's even possible that Obama's trip, while not having an immediate effect on tracking numbers, could lay the mental groundwork in the minds of voters to the point where they are more open to an Obama presidency at some point in the future (such as the Democratic convention). In particular, this might occur if his trip removes doubts voters might have about his ability to handle international affairs.

2. Voters could simply not pay much attention to the trip, and its net impact could end up being very minor. The data so far this summer have shown little significant movement in voter numbers, suggesting that voters may, to some degree, be tuning out the election coverage regardless of the candidates' efforts to stimulate interest.

3. Voters could pay attention to Obama's trip, but decide that the trip, per se, did not demonstrate anything that would cause a fundamental shift in their voting preferences. While the news media have made a great deal out of the trip, it's conceivable that it may not appear to be significant to the majority of voters.

4. Voters could pay attention to the trip, but shift support away from Obama if they viewed the trip or the way in which Obama conducted himself in a more negative light. Conservative commentators -- and of course the McCain campaign itself -- have certainly been arguing that there are negatives associated with the trip, including a speculation of presumptiveness that a presidential nominee would make a speech more appropriate for an actual president, the criticism that the content of his speeches did not contain anything new, or that the real issues facing the voters are domestic, not international.

The evidence is certainly mixed at this point as to which of these scenarios may end up being closest to reality. Obama's 6-point lead over the past weekend initially suggested that he was perhaps on the cusp of a jump in support as a result of (or at the least coincident with) his trip. But that lead was not sustained, and the Gallup averages reported in the middle of this week have been in and around the average 3-point advantage Obama has maintained for the last month and a half.

Now, on the basis of a strong showing in Thursday night's Gallup interviewing, Obama is back to a 6-point margin over McCain. On Thursday Obama made his highly-anticipated speech to a crowd estimated to be larger than 200,000 in Berlin, Germany, and it is not implausible that it might have affected enough voters to move his overall advantage in the horse race tracking a few points. The drop off in Obama's support earlier this week, however, suggests caution in assuming that the trip will have any lasting impact on the structure of the race.

This means that the jury is still out until the tracking results through the weekend and into next week are monitored carefully. To signify a real difference in the support patterns of voters in the U.S., the data would either need to show a sustained 6-point plus lead for Obama over a number of days, or conversely, a sustained pattern by which John McCain moves into the lead (something he has not done since early June) and sustains that lead.

Previous election year polling shows that the conventions have a high (but not 100%) probability of shaking up the race. The impact of events prior to the conventions is certainly more difficult to pin down. As noted, the structure of the race this year appears to have snapped into place in early June after Hillary Clinton dropped out of the race for the Democratic Party's nomination, and it simply has not changed much since. Whether or not it will change at this juncture remains to be seen.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on July 25, 2008, 12:12:58 PM
5+ point leads in both tracking polls... :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on July 26, 2008, 12:02:23 PM
Saturday - July 26, 2008:

Obama - 48% (+1)
McCain - 41% (nc)

This represents a continuation of Obama's frontrunner position in Gallup's Friday report, when he led McCain by six points, 47% to 41%. Earlier this week, Obama and McCain were separated by just two to four points, but that was before the extensive U.S. news coverage of the last leg of Obama's foreign tour.

Obama's particularly large leads over McCain in Friday and Saturday's tracking suggest that the massive publicity surrounding Obama's speech at the Victory Tower in Berlin on Friday -- the only major public event of the trip -- and coverage of Obama's meetings with the heads of state in France and Britain may have tilted U.S. voter preferences more in his favor.

Notably, Obama's current seven-point lead over McCain ties his widest since the start of Gallup Poll Daily tracking of the general election in early March, and was achieved only once previously. He led McCain by seven points immediately after Hillary Clinton suspended her campaign for the Democratic nomination in early June. However, that proved to be a short-lived bounce, with Obama holding a six- to seven-point lead for only three days before it dropped back to two to three points.

While Obama may have thus far received a modest bounce from the massive publicity surrounding this week's trip, his ability to sustain or build on that -- as opposed to having it dissipate along with news coverage of the trip --could hinge on how the major U.S. media outlets and conservative vs. liberal commentators portray his performance abroad in the coming days.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on July 26, 2008, 12:12:04 PM
Carl, I have an honest question: Are national polls necessarily more immune from bad samples?  Or do little pockets of weakness (cell-only, non-response, multiple landlines etc.) expose themselves more in a national poll?

Not necessarily.

Also, unrepresentative samples aren't the only, nor the most serious problem.

The thing is that some state polls are really terrible, especially those done by some media outlets.

What I believe you are getting at is that larger sample sizes in most national polls tend to dilute the tendency to badly skewed samples.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on July 27, 2008, 12:02:35 PM
Sunday - July 27, 2008:

Obama - 49% (+1)
McCain - 40% (-1)

This represents a continuation of Obama's front-runner position evident in the last three Gallup Poll Daily tracking updates.

The margin, coincident with the extensive U.S. news coverage of Obama's foreign tour, is the largest for Obama over McCain measured since Gallup began tracking the general election horserace in March.

A key question remains as to whether this "bounce" is short-term (as happens to bounces in some instances following intense publicity surrounding a convention) or if his lead will persist -- the answer to which will become evident in the next several days.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on July 27, 2008, 12:12:18 PM
Sunday - July 27, 2008:

Obama - 49% (+1)
McCain - 40% (-1)

I´d rather have a continuous 5-6% advantage for Obama until Nov. 4 to avoid voters staying at home because they think Obama is a lock. A 5-6% advantage prior to Election Day is also the margin with which Obama could offset a minor Bradley-Effect and still win the election.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: The Mikado on July 27, 2008, 12:16:00 PM
It'll be back down to ~5 by Wednesday.

Quote this post on Wednesday to mock me/admire my prescience.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on July 27, 2008, 02:46:15 PM

Feel like a clown now?



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on July 27, 2008, 02:58:14 PM

Feigned conditional outrage!  Feigned conditional outrage!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on July 27, 2008, 04:40:26 PM
Weekend polling from Gallup.

*Sigh*


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Flying Dog on July 27, 2008, 04:44:12 PM
Let's go for double digits!!!!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on July 27, 2008, 04:48:42 PM

Oh, absolutely. I just wish Election day wasn't next week!

Does anyone know how former President Dukakis is these days?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on July 27, 2008, 07:30:40 PM

Oh, absolutely. I just wish Election day wasn't next week!

Does anyone know how former President Dukakis is these days?

He's hanging at the Pool with Former President Dole.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Flying Dog on July 27, 2008, 07:33:10 PM

Oh, absolutely. I just wish Election day wasn't next week!

Does anyone know how former President Dukakis is these days?

He's hanging at the Pool with Former President Dole.

I shudder to think about what that man looks like in a bathing suit. Ick.

Have you seen him lately, he has had enough 'adjustments' done to make Cher blush.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 27, 2008, 07:53:35 PM

Well, if it's gonna happen it will happen tomorrow (given that weekend data, apparently, overstates Obama's lead).

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Flying Dog on July 27, 2008, 07:56:25 PM

Well, if it's gonna happen it will happen tomorrow (given that weekend data, apparently, overstates Obama's lead).

Dave

Think about it this way: Perhaps mid-week date overstates McCain's lead. How 'bout that?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on July 27, 2008, 08:26:59 PM

Well, if it's gonna happen it will happen tomorrow (given that weekend data, apparently, overstates Obama's lead).

Dave

Think about it this way: Perhaps mid-week date overstates McCain's lead. How 'bout that?

the election is on a Tuesday


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on July 27, 2008, 10:06:45 PM

Oh, absolutely. I just wish Election day wasn't next week!

Does anyone know how former President Dukakis is these days?

He's hanging at the Pool with Former President Dole.

Eh...I don't get if you're trying to make a point.  :P  Mine was that Dukakis was up seventeen points in August 1988. Everyone needs to calm down.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on July 27, 2008, 10:07:20 PM

Well, if it's gonna happen it will happen tomorrow (given that weekend data, apparently, overstates Obama's lead).

Dave

Think about it this way: Perhaps mid-week date overstates McCain's lead. How 'bout that?

McCain isn't in the lead... just sayin


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: King on July 28, 2008, 02:25:34 AM

Oh, absolutely. I just wish Election day wasn't next week!

Does anyone know how former President Dukakis is these days?

He's hanging at the Pool with Former President Dole.

Eh...I don't get if you're trying to make a point.  :P  Mine was that Dukakis was up seventeen points in August 1988. Everyone needs to calm down.

You need to be more modern in your points.  A simple 2004 reference to "exit poll victory speeches" by the Democrats (such as mypalfish) would've been adequate.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eleanor Martins on July 28, 2008, 10:30:18 AM
Bar fluctuations from week to week like Mikado said, I think last week was the point in time when the election conclusively, definitively broke for Obama. The ineptitude on show in McCain campaign the past 7 days shows the direction in which this is floating, because it just seems as if McCain's lost the initiative and become a reactionary, instead of the candidate which defines the issues that are to be fought over.

Time will bear me out, but I do think that he's drawn himself into the same sinkhole that Gore and Kerry did, where they're basically relying on a game-changing event to turn this thing around. If Pawlenty comes out grinning today with his arm around McCain it truly is over, the campaign can't afford an unoffensive, insipid choice like that.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on July 28, 2008, 11:07:33 AM

Well, if it's gonna happen it will happen tomorrow (given that weekend data, apparently, overstates Obama's lead).

Dave

Think about it this way: Perhaps mid-week date overstates McCain's lead. How 'bout that?

the election is on a Tuesday

Deadpan sarcasm > regular sarcasm


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 28, 2008, 12:19:15 PM
Monday, July 28, 2008:

Obama - 48% (-1)
McCain - 40% (nc)

Obama gained ground over McCain in each of the last three tracking updates, but today's average shows no further gains and a slight drop of Obama's percent of the vote from 49% to 48%. Obama's progress was coincident with his highly visible foreign tour, and it is not unreasonable to expect that his lead over McCain may settle back to a margin closer to what Gallup has measured for most of the summer as the impact of the trip fades. At the same time, McCain and his surrogates have engaged in sharp attacks on Obama in their attempt to blunt the impact of his trip, and some of that effort could have an effect on voters. The basic structure of the race so far this summer has been remarkably stable, and it remains to be seen if either candidate can alter it for a sustained period of time before the conventions in late August and early September.

Slight decline in Obama's lead now that Thursday's sample is out of the tracking but this is, of course, the full weekend polling data. It will be interesting to see how things stand Thursday, which will comprise weekday data from Mon thru' Weds


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 28, 2008, 12:33:37 PM
Friday, July 25, 2008:

Obama - 48% (-1)
McCain - 40% (nc)



I think today is Monday, July 28.  :)  They are starting to run together.

I would be worried about a weekend sample showing a drop for Obama.  We could see a very big one tomorrow (that really won't mean a heck of a lot).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 28, 2008, 12:50:08 PM
Friday, July 25, 2008:

Obama - 48% (-1)
McCain - 40% (nc)



I think today is Monday, July 28.  :)  They are starting to run together.

Corrected ;)

Quote
I would be worried about a weekend sample showing a drop for Obama.  We could see a very big one tomorrow (that really won't mean a heck of a lot).

Not too worried. Obama, obviously, had a good Thursday (given his lead jumped from +2 to +6 in Friday's tracking) and it's data has exited from today's tracking

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Umengus on July 28, 2008, 01:47:59 PM
Gallup says Mc Cain +4 in his USA today/gallup poll (LV). Gallup is a joke. A total joke.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on July 28, 2008, 10:19:05 PM
LOL at Gallup putting out two polls with completely different results and lol at summer polling in general. People on both sides should just relax for now. Go see Batman again or something.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 29, 2008, 12:07:33 PM
Tuesday, July 29, 2008:

Obama - 47% (-1)
McCain - 41% (+1)

Gallup Poll Daily tracking showed Obama gaining ground over McCain at the end of last week near the culmination of Obama's highly visible foreign tour. That "bounce" seems to be ebbing now, and the current evidence suggests that Obama has not been able to maintain or expand his 9-point lead as measured in Gallup Poll Daily tracking for July 24-26 -- at least in the short-term.

Obama has generally led McCain by a consistent, but small, margin for much of the summer. There have been the expected daily fluctuations in the size of that margin, including Obama's recent gain, but nothing so far to suggest any lasting disruption in the structure of the race.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 29, 2008, 12:45:11 PM
Wednesday and Thursday will be the key to Gallup.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on July 29, 2008, 06:45:34 PM
Once the weekend polling leaves the sample, it will be back to a 2-3 point race, where the race is right now.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 29, 2008, 06:58:38 PM
Once the weekend polling leaves the sample, it will be back to a 2-3 point race, where the race is right now.

And if not ;)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 29, 2008, 07:12:58 PM
Once the weekend polling leaves the sample, it will be back to a 2-3 point race, where the race is right now.

And if not ;)

I prefer to see the numbers after the weekend numbers are out.  I actually thing Obama might have improved very slightly.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 30, 2008, 12:11:04 PM
Wednesday, July 30, 2008:

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 42% (+1)

Today's results are based on Gallup Poll Daily tracking from July 27-29.

The percentage of voters favoring Obama for president swelled from 45% in July 21-23 tracking, conducted at the outset of Obama's weeklong visit to Europe and the Middle East, to 49% in July 24-26 interviewing conducted at the height of publicity surrounding the tour. At the same time, McCain's support ebbed from 43% to 40%, and the percentage of undecided voters fell from 7% to 4%.

With Obama now back on U.S. soil and filling less of the nightly news, voter preferences have nearly completely reverted to their pre-trip levels.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 30, 2008, 02:54:03 PM
Wednesday, July 30, 2008:

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 42% (+1)

Today's results are based on Gallup Poll Daily tracking from July 27-29.

The percentage of voters favoring Obama for president swelled from 45% in July 21-23 tracking, conducted at the outset of Obama's weeklong visit to Europe and the Middle East, to 49% in July 24-26 interviewing conducted at the height of publicity surrounding the tour. At the same time, McCain's support ebbed from 43% to 40%, and the percentage of undecided voters fell from 7% to 4%.

With Obama now back on U.S. soil and filling less of the nightly news, voter preferences have nearly completely reverted to their pre-trip levels.


And this is still with the weekend numbers partially included.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 30, 2008, 03:11:22 PM
Wednesday, July 30, 2008:

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 42% (+1)

Today's results are based on Gallup Poll Daily tracking from July 27-29.

The percentage of voters favoring Obama for president swelled from 45% in July 21-23 tracking, conducted at the outset of Obama's weeklong visit to Europe and the Middle East, to 49% in July 24-26 interviewing conducted at the height of publicity surrounding the tour. At the same time, McCain's support ebbed from 43% to 40%, and the percentage of undecided voters fell from 7% to 4%.

With Obama now back on U.S. soil and filling less of the nightly news, voter preferences have nearly completely reverted to their pre-trip levels.


And this is still with the weekend numbers partially included.

I'm just hoping McCain taking the low road, going all negative, backfires now. I'm not holding my breath however. McCain can do no wrong ::)!

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on July 30, 2008, 03:16:44 PM
Wednesday, July 30, 2008:

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 42% (+1)

Today's results are based on Gallup Poll Daily tracking from July 27-29.

The percentage of voters favoring Obama for president swelled from 45% in July 21-23 tracking, conducted at the outset of Obama's weeklong visit to Europe and the Middle East, to 49% in July 24-26 interviewing conducted at the height of publicity surrounding the tour. At the same time, McCain's support ebbed from 43% to 40%, and the percentage of undecided voters fell from 7% to 4%.

With Obama now back on U.S. soil and filling less of the nightly news, voter preferences have nearly completely reverted to their pre-trip levels.


And this is still with the weekend numbers partially included.

I'm just hoping McCain taking the low road, going all negative, backfires now. I'm not holding my breath however. McCain can do no wrong ::)!

Dave

No one's paying attention to what McCain's doing, at least not yet.

It has to do with Obama's campaign or Obama himself, as well-organized as they are, sending across the wrong message to that wavering 10%-15% who might be inclined to vote for him outside his base percentage.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on July 31, 2008, 12:27:02 PM
Thursday, July 31, 2008:

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 44% (+2)

Today's results are based on Gallup Poll Daily tracking from July 28-30.

The latest three-day average confirms that Obama was unable to solidify the significant lead he briefly enjoyed among registered voters at the height of publicity surrounding his weeklong visit to Afghanistan, Iraq, the Middle East, and Europe. Gallup tracking showed Obama's lead rising at one point as high as nine percentage points (for the average from last Thursday, Friday, and Saturday), but the presumptive Democratic nominee has been losing ground since that point.

The race has been very close before, with Obama holding a 1-point lead as recently as July 15-17, and the race tied for several days in late June. The story of the election through the summer months has been a close race that simply does not seem to want to change. Obama has generally been in the lead, and it is significant that McCain has never held even a 1-point lead among registered voters in Gallup Poll Daily tracking since Obama clinched the Democratic nomination in early June. Still, the relative stability of the race, even in the aftermath of such a high-visibility event as Obama's foreign trip (coupled, of course, with the McCain campaign's vigorous efforts to defuse its impact) continues to suggest that it may be the conventions in late August and early September that will offer the next potential timeframe for significant and/or sustained change.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on July 31, 2008, 12:46:19 PM
Thursday, July 31, 2008:

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 44% (+2)

Obama is walking away with this one.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on July 31, 2008, 12:50:35 PM
Thursday, July 31, 2008:

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 44% (+2)

Obama is walking away with this one.
why do you find this entertaining or humorous?  there are a few partisans who claim obama is going to win easy.  there are a few other more objective analysts who agree.  you yourself claim that summer polling is pretty crummy.  with all that said, you persist each time a poll shows the race tight or tightening to sarcastically comment as if 90% of the board were regularly claiming this won't be a close race.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on July 31, 2008, 12:52:12 PM
Thursday, July 31, 2008:

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 44% (+2)

Obama is walking away with this one.
why do you find this entertaining or humorous? 

The impending Obama landslide which will capture Montana, North Dakota, North Carolina, Indiana and Georgia is entertaining or humorous to me? Oh, so very far from it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on July 31, 2008, 02:01:32 PM
Thursday, July 31, 2008:

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 44% (+2)

Obama is walking away with this one.
why do you find this entertaining or humorous?  there are a few partisans who claim obama is going to win easy.  there are a few other more objective analysts who agree.  you yourself claim that summer polling is pretty crummy.  with all that said, you persist each time a poll shows the race tight or tightening to sarcastically comment as if 90% of the board were regularly claiming this won't be a close race.

I think we've had a few here that have said that, at some point.  I've been saying close, and factor out the weekend bump.  Now I'm wondering if there is a mid week bump.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on July 31, 2008, 04:40:41 PM
a few, maybe, but if you're going to make the same sarcastic comment over and over and over and over, you better be calling out more than a few people.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 01, 2008, 02:23:51 AM
a few, maybe, but if you're going to make the same sarcastic comment over and over and over and over, you better be calling out more than a few people.

We've seen a lot of puffery about Obama, even down to "Obama leading" in several states where his numbers were, in fact, steadily dropping.  It's still happening.

Now, I'm 100% in favor of noting this a close race, with Obama having an edge at this point, but it is not solid.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 01, 2008, 11:09:34 AM
Obama Retains Strength Among Highly Educated [30 July, 2008]

McCain does best among those with college degrees but no further education

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109156/Obama-Retains-Strength-Among-Highly-Educated.aspx

Preference for the General Election, by Education

High school or less: Obama 46%; McCain 39%

Some college: Obama 47%; McCain 42%

College graduate: Obama 45%; McCain 47%

Postgraduate: Obama 54; McCain 39%

Weekly aggregate of registered voters, July 21-27, 2008

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on August 01, 2008, 11:21:51 AM
Just curious dave, how much does the DNC pay you to spout their talking points on this site?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on August 01, 2008, 11:50:53 AM
Just curious dave, how much does the DNC pay you to spout their talking points on this site?

That's not a talking point, it's a competely neutral assessment and in line with previous voting patterns. Republican voting increases with education until you get to graduate school, and then it drops.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 01, 2008, 12:08:31 PM
Just curious dave, how much does the DNC pay you to spout their talking points on this site?

That's not a talking point, it's a competely neutral assessment and in line with previous voting patterns. Republican voting increases with education until you get to graduate school, and then it drops.

That might be job related.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 01, 2008, 12:14:30 PM
Friday, August 1, 2008:

Obama - 44% (-1)
McCain - 44% (nc)

This is not much different from the results reported in Gallup Poll Daily tracking on Thursday, when the two were nearly tied with 45% for Obama and 44% for McCain. However, it is a substantial turnaround from earlier this week when Obama held a statistically significant lead coming off his high-profile trip to Europe, Afghanistan, and the Middle East.

Obama and McCain were closely matched in each of the three nights of interviewing included in today's result, with neither candidate ahead by more than three percentage points. This suggests that the recent surge in voter support for Obama has truly subsided.

The contrast between Obama's recent advantage over McCain (ranging from six to nine points) and today's result is particularly notable because this is McCain's strongest showing in over a month. The last time Gallup found the race exactly tied was in late June. By contrast, in the weeks just prior to Obama's overseas trip, he had led the race by an average of four points. [/quote]


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 01, 2008, 12:50:39 PM
This does not include the weekend numbers, but this is NOT good news for Obama, considering that this was real attempt to breakout.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on August 01, 2008, 03:32:02 PM
Over the last coupld of weeks there has been a mild (and slow) thightening of the race.

As tracking polls tended to go up and down on a daily basis, and the changes were over the long term relatively small, it took some time to determine that the tightening was real, and not just "noise,"

As to the reason(s) for the tightening, there are several which are potential factors, but one which seems to pretty definitely be a factor, i.e. the difference in the candidates current position on energy production.

The Senate Democrats seem to largely have understood that the position of opposing increases in energy production is untenable, while Obama and Pelsi are resolution in there determination that Americans lower their standard of living.

How long will it take Obama to realize that he needs to abandon his 'hairshirt' approach to energy production is likely to harm his candidacy, and change his policy?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 02, 2008, 10:09:11 AM
Either today or tomorrow. we should see the "weekend bump" for Obama, and at some point a lead of 3-4 points.  Anything below that, Obama suffering some moderate to major erosion.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Josh/Devilman88 on August 02, 2008, 10:14:23 AM
This National numbers don't match up with the state numbers.... I hate summer time.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 02, 2008, 10:16:54 AM
This National numbers don't match up with the state numbers.... I hate summer time.

At this stage, the state numbers might be following the national numbers.

Right now, I'm looking at broad trends.  After the conventions, I'll start focusing on the state polls.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Josh/Devilman88 on August 02, 2008, 10:22:32 AM
This National numbers don't match up with the state numbers.... I hate summer time.

At this stage, the state numbers might be following the national numbers.

Right now, I'm looking at broad trends.  After the conventions, I'll start focusing on the state polls.

Ah, ok, I think I am just going to wait until Sept to make anymore predictions...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 02, 2008, 12:05:06 PM
Saturday, August 2, 2008:

Obama - 44% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on August 02, 2008, 12:15:24 PM
I guess Obama didn't get his usual bounce from Friday night polling. This is interesting.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 02, 2008, 02:16:24 PM
Saturday, August 2, 2008:

Obama - 44% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)



I'll wait until tomorrow, but this might be the start of bad news for Obama.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on August 02, 2008, 02:22:45 PM
Ouch. No weekend bounce for Obama today.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on August 02, 2008, 02:31:31 PM
Saturday, August 2, 2008:

Obama - 44% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)



Perfect


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Josh/Devilman88 on August 02, 2008, 02:33:58 PM

Remember it is still summer and polls aren't going to show the real race until Sept.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on August 02, 2008, 02:34:35 PM

Remember it is still summer and polls aren't going to show the real race until Sept.

Exactly. This is when Obama is supposed to be kicking ass.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on August 02, 2008, 02:54:28 PM
Yeah, I remember when Reagan was barely ahead during the Summer of 1980 too. Carter's second term was great.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Josh/Devilman88 on August 02, 2008, 03:13:22 PM

Remember it is still summer and polls aren't going to show the real race until Sept.

Exactly. This is when Obama is supposed to be kicking ass.

No he's not, I think its funny, when a poll comes out that shows McCain down by 10%, you say oh its summer time things will change. But when a poll comes out with them tied, you say Oh this poll is race, Obama is going to lose because he is suppose to be up by alot. The fact is alot will change we still don't now the VPs and its Aug. We really wont now the state of the race until Sept/Oct.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: LanceMcSteel on August 02, 2008, 03:58:23 PM
Can Conservatives please explain why an all American war hero is losing in the polls to a man with a middle name Hussein?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on August 02, 2008, 04:01:31 PM
Can Conservatives please explain why an all American war hero is losing in the polls to a man with a middle name Hussein?

I'm not a conservative, but I'm also not a total ignoramus, so I can.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on August 02, 2008, 04:02:22 PM
Yeah, I remember when Reagan was barely ahead during the Summer of 1980 too. Carter's second term was great.

When you read for me all of the controversy that surrounds Obama and then do the same for Reagan, I'll concede that that's a good point.

Can Conservatives please explain why an all American war hero is losing in the polls to a man with a middle name Hussein?

Because our party and the President in the White House who happens to be a member of our party are very unpopular.

Are you telling us that someone with the name "Hussein" should be ahead in the polls because of their name?

Also, the man with the middle name "Hussein" is leading by about a point or two in the polls. Not really a great lead.



Remember it is still summer and polls aren't going to show the real race until Sept.

Exactly. This is when Obama is supposed to be kicking ass.

No he's not, I think its funny, when a poll comes out that shows McCain down by 10%, you say oh its summer time things will change. But when a poll comes out with them tied, you say Oh this poll is race, Obama is going to lose because he is suppose to be up by alot. The fact is alot will change we still don't now the VPs and its Aug. We really wont now the state of the race until Sept/Oct.

Democrats traditonally lead during the summer months, Josh. Plus, it's clear that if Obama is Mr. Frontrunner, he shouldn't be ahead by just a point or two. This is when he should be kicking ass. Almost everyone with a clue agrees.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: agcatter on August 02, 2008, 04:07:03 PM
We won't see much movement until the conventions and then just mini bounces.  I predict the race stays about like it is for the next three weeks. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 02, 2008, 04:52:01 PM
We could see a trend to McCain (about where Obama was in early to mid July).  We won't know until tomorrow at the earliest (probably not until Wednesday or Thursday).  Obama may decide it's time to roll out the VP candidate.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Vsanto5 on August 02, 2008, 06:35:23 PM
Quote
When you read for me all of the controversy that surrounds Obama and then do the same for Reagan, I'll concede that that's a good point.


What controversy?  I want to know what you are talking about because I really don't know how you came up with that retort.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on August 02, 2008, 07:13:34 PM
What controversy?  I want to know what you are talking about because I really don't know how you came up with that retort.

Whether it's Rev. Wright, Obama's own comments concerning "race" in this race, his inexperience, the fact that he's "too different" for many people, etc.

Reagan didn't have those problems. People threw around that he was an actor and that he was considered far right wing.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Saxwsylvania on August 02, 2008, 07:16:04 PM
Quote
When you read for me all of the controversy that surrounds Obama and then do the same for Reagan, I'll concede that that's a good point.


What controversy?  I want to know what you are talking about because I really don't know how you came up with that retort.https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?action=post;topic=77087.315;num_replies=327#top
Insert Quote



Hey, I hate to make you feel that me and Phil are ganging up on you, but - are you really a fan of Garfield?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Vsanto5 on August 02, 2008, 07:24:05 PM
I don't feel ganged up on.  But yes I' am.  The earliest garfields are the best, the fattest garfield, and the slimmer garfield.  Besides my giant sig, why do you ask?

 I think what goes on in people's lives are what is going to drive them to the polls, and which candidate they feel will address their concerns the best.  Not a controversy ,which Reagan never had to deal with.

 I still think that Obama needs Hillary to pull in all the Democrats and then you will see the bounce that should be attributed to left leaning results in the summertime.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on August 02, 2008, 11:41:40 PM
Can Conservatives please explain why an all American war hero is losing in the polls to a man with a middle name Hussein?

Believe me, Alcon is NOT a conservative!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on August 02, 2008, 11:46:54 PM
Quote
When you read for me all of the controversy that surrounds Obama and then do the same for Reagan, I'll concede that that's a good point.


What controversy?  I want to know what you are talking about because I really don't know how you came up with that retort.



I enjoyed Garfield, as I had a cat (or more accurately, I was his valet in his opinion) who knew what time it was for me to come home from work, and that I preferred entering through the kitchen, and would get on top of the refrigerator, and pounce on me when I entered.

Oh, and he was an all black cat that I got as a kitten, who named himself (Zorro) by leaving his mark.

I still miss him.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 03, 2008, 12:07:16 PM
Sunday, August 3, 2008

Obama - 45% (+1)
McCain - 44% (nc)

The results reflect a fairly steady pattern of voter sentiment over the last several days, with the two candidates either tied in an absolute sense, or in today's average, statistically tied. As has been the case all summer, the race appears to be settling back into a pattern where Obama has a small margin over McCain. The overall average margin for June and July has been three percentage points in Obama's favor, despite some brief periods of time when Obama led statistically and other times when the race was tied. Obama has been unable to sustain a significant lead over McCain, and the latter has been unable to break into even a small lead over Obama.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 03, 2008, 04:41:20 PM
By mid week, if there is no Obama VP announcement, McCain leads.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on August 04, 2008, 12:12:33 PM
Monday, August 4, 2008

Obama - 46% (+1)
McCain - 43% (-1)

The three percentage point advantage for Obama matches the average since early June, when Obama clinched the number of delegates needed to head to the Democratic convention as the presumptive presidential nominee. Since then, Obama has never trailed McCain among registered voters, though McCain has tied Obama five times during this span, including Gallup Poll Daily tracking reports for last Friday and Saturday.

The Democratic convention is now just three weeks away, while the Republican convention will begin four weeks from today. The conventions are one of the most anticipated events of the election calendar, in part because each candidate typically receives a "bounce" in support in the polls following their official nomination as the party's presidential candidate.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on August 04, 2008, 12:14:07 PM
By mid week, if there is no Obama VP announcement, McCain leads.

Midweek = Wednesday Right?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 04, 2008, 01:40:09 PM
By mid week, if there is no Obama VP announcement, McCain leads.

Midweek = Wednesday Right?

Thursday is better.  This includes two weekend numbers.  Obama might drop with just Sunday numbers included, but Thursday is likely for the lead.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Vsanto5 on August 04, 2008, 02:23:54 PM
Why are Gallup and Rassmussen opposites?  It seems when Rasmussen has Obama ahead Gallup has him tied or really close.  When Gallup goes +3 Rasmussen is -1.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on August 04, 2008, 03:12:28 PM
Ah. Here's the Obama weekend bounce J.J. talks so much about.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 04, 2008, 04:56:14 PM
Ah. Here's the Obama weekend bounce J.J. talks so much about.

Yes, that average was based on polling from Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.  Tomorrow, Friday's numbers will drop off and Mondays will pop in.  If Obama is eroding, we see this drop back a bit, but we won't see anything without the weekend until Thursday.

The VP announcement may change that dynamic.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 05, 2008, 12:07:00 PM
Tuesday, August 5, 2008

Obama - 47% (+1)
McCain - 43% (nc)

Voter preferences fluctuated in the time immediately after Obama's much publicized overseas trip. First, Obama's lead stretched to nine points near the conclusion of the trip, only to disappear when McCain moved into a precise tie with Obama near the end of last week. Now, the race seems to have reverted to where it has been for most of the summer, with Obama holding a narrow advantage.

If indeed the race has settled back to "the norm" for the time being, it could represent the calm before the storm. With vice presidential running mate announcements and the party conventions forthcoming in the next several weeks, enough voter preferences could be changed by these events to cause renewed movement in the overall numbers. [/quote]


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on August 05, 2008, 12:24:08 PM
Ah. Here's the Obama weekend bounce J.J. talks so much about.

Yes, that average was based on polling from Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.  Tomorrow, Friday's numbers will drop off and Mondays will pop in.  If Obama is eroding, we see this drop back a bit, but we won't see anything without the weekend until Thursday.

The VP announcement may change that dynamic.

So far, no indication of weakening, but Monday might just have been less damaging than Friday... Right?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 05, 2008, 12:32:37 PM
Ah. Here's the Obama weekend bounce J.J. talks so much about.

Yes, that average was based on polling from Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.  Tomorrow, Friday's numbers will drop off and Mondays will pop in.  If Obama is eroding, we see this drop back a bit, but we won't see anything without the weekend until Thursday.

The VP announcement may change that dynamic.

So far, no indication of weakening, but Monday might just have been less damaging than Friday... Right?

Possibly, though there might have been a good Obama sample in Sunday's  (or even Saturday's poll).  Saturday's numbers will drop out tomorrow and Sunday's numbers will drop out on Thursday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on August 06, 2008, 12:04:51 PM
Wednesday - August 6, 2008:

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 44% (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 06, 2008, 01:10:55 PM
Wednesday - August 6, 2008:

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 44% (+1)

Weekend numbers dropping out.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on August 06, 2008, 01:12:45 PM
And yet:

By mid week, if there is no Obama VP announcement, McCain leads.

Not happening.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 06, 2008, 01:18:10 PM
And yet:

By mid week, if there is no Obama VP announcement, McCain leads.

Not happening.

We don't have the mid week numbers yet.  Sunday is still in the sample.

My only real question is if Obama gets a weekend bump or if McCain gets a mid-week bump.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on August 06, 2008, 01:26:42 PM
My only real question is if Obama gets a weekend bump or if McCain gets a mid-week bump.

Or if Obama suffers a mid-week sag, or if McCain suffers a weekend sag.

What is truth in this situation?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 06, 2008, 01:45:52 PM
My only real question is if Obama gets a weekend bump or if McCain gets a mid-week bump.

Or if Obama suffers a mid-week sag, or if McCain suffers a weekend sag.

What is truth in this situation?

Bingo.  I fully expect McCain to pop up ahead on Thursday or Friday, but I don't expect him to be on Monday.

I think the "truth in this situation," is Obama eroded, maybe 3-4 points and the candidate's numbers will seem to be slow dancing around the others.  The "minuet period" of the campaign?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 06, 2008, 07:23:06 PM
Independents Remain Split Between Obama and McCain [6 August, 2008]

Overall, the race expanded, slightly, than contracted in recent weeks

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109309/Independents-Remain-Split-Between-Obama-McCain.aspx

Presidential preferences for July 28 - Aug. 3, 2008

Core Consituency Groups for Obama

Blacks: Obama 86%; McCain 5%
Democrats: Obama 79%; McCain 12%
Liberals: Obama 78%; McCain 14%
No religious affiliation: Obama 67%; McCain 24%
Hispanics: Obama 57%; McCain 30%
18-to-29-year-olds: Obama 56%; McCain 35%
Moderates: Obama 51%; McCain 35%
Postgraduates: Obama 55%; McCain 39%
Women: Obama 48%; McCain 39%

Core Constituency Groups for McCain

Republicans: McCain 84%; Obama 10%
Conservatives: McCain 68%; Obama 22%
Whites: McCain 51%; Obama 38%
65 years-and-older: McCain 46%; Obama 37%
Men: McCain 48%; Obama 41%
Protestants: McCain 48%; Obama 41%

Competitive Constituency Groups [change on previous week]

Independents: McCain 43% (+4); Obama 40% (-4)
Catholics: McCain 46% (+6); Obama 42% (-7)
30-to-49-year-olds: McCain 46% (+1); Obama 44% (-1)
50-to-64-year-olds: Obama 46% (-2); McCain 43% (+1)
"Some college": Obama 45% (-2); McCain 45% (+3)
College graduates: Obama 45% (nc); McCain 45% (-2)
No College: McCain 44% (+5); Obama 41% (-5)

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 07, 2008, 12:05:57 PM
Thursday, August 7, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 43% (-1)

These results, based on Aug. 4-6 polling, are essentially the same as Gallup has found all week, and suggest that voter preferences have stabilized for the moment. Near the tail end of Obama's overseas trip his lead expanded to nine points, but in the days following the trip's conclusion McCain erased that lead and moved into a tie with Obama. Since then, Obama has reestablished a modest advantage over McCain.

From a long-term perspective, Obama's 3-point margin is consistent with what he has enjoyed since clinching the Democratic nomination in early June.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on August 07, 2008, 12:09:55 PM
Oh well J. J.  Win some, lose some.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on August 07, 2008, 12:42:13 PM
Oh well J. J.  Win some, lose some.
I still think Hillary has a decent shot to get the nomination.  I don't understand why no one else gets it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on August 07, 2008, 12:53:39 PM
Oh boy, yet another ownage of J. J. by reality! How many does this make it?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 07, 2008, 01:01:50 PM
Oh well J. J.  Win some, lose some.
I still think Hillary has a decent shot to get the nomination.  I don't understand why no one else gets it.

She doesn't have a shot, unless something comes out on Obama between now and the nomination (and it would have to be bad).  She does have a very good shot of destroying the convention at this point.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 07, 2008, 01:03:39 PM
Obama will probably drop, but pick it up over the weekend.  He has from Monday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 08, 2008, 12:09:59 PM
Friday, August 8, 2008

Obama - 46% (nc)
McCain - 43% (nc)

Today's result, based on Aug. 5-7 interviewing, is identical to where the race stood in Thursday's report, and marks the fifth straight day that McCain and Obama have been separated by between two and four points in the Gallup Poll Daily tracking poll.

It thus appears that Obama has recaptured a slight lead over McCain after essentially falling into a tie with his likely Republican opponent for a short period last week.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 08, 2008, 12:58:58 PM
Obama should bounce with tomorrow's numbers.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on August 08, 2008, 01:22:22 PM
Obama should bounce with tomorrow's numbers.
why?  it will be all weekday numbers, no?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on August 08, 2008, 05:39:36 PM
Obama should bounce with tomorrow's numbers.
why?  it will be all weekday numbers, no?

Friday is essentially part of the weekend. People are out doing things.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on August 09, 2008, 12:47:26 AM
Oh well J. J.  Win some, lose some.
I still think Hillary has a decent shot to get the nomination.  I don't understand why no one else gets it.

She doesn't have a shot, unless something comes out on Obama between now and the nomination (and it would have to be bad).  She does have a very good shot of destroying the convention at this point.

LOL. You were saying Hillary still had a good shot as late as early JUNE. The second sentence has no basis in reality whatsoever (as she has made absolutely no intentions at all toward doing so.)

But then again, how many post-NH J. J. predictions have come true?

Hillary would come close in South Carolina.
Hillary would destroy Obama on Super Tuesday.
Hillary would come close in Virginia because the independents would all vote for McCain despite that race being over for some inexplicable reason.
Hillary would win or come close in Wisconsin because some imaginary polls showed it "tightening"
Hillary would win Pennsylvania by a strong double digits and a crushing in delegates.
Hillary would win Indiana by a landslide and keep NC in single digits.
Hillary would get the Florida and Michigan delegates seated at full strength with the Michigan delegation exactly as the vote went allowing Hillary to take some uncommitted.

Did I miss any?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Mr.Phips on August 09, 2008, 01:02:17 AM
Oh well J. J.  Win some, lose some.
I still think Hillary has a decent shot to get the nomination.  I don't understand why no one else gets it.

You are joking right?  Do you seriously think the Democrats will yank the nomination from the first black nominee at the last minute?  Do you realize how badly this would kill Democrats up and down the ballot in November? 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on August 09, 2008, 01:03:40 AM
Oh well J. J.  Win some, lose some.
I still think Hillary has a decent shot to get the nomination.  I don't understand why no one else gets it.

You are joking right?  Do you seriously think the Democrats will yank the nomination from the first black nominee at the last minute?  Do you realize how badly this would kill Democrats up and down the ballot in November? 

It's sarcasm. It's mocking J. J.'s delusions about Hillary in the past. He was still insisting Hillary had a good shot after Montana and South Dakota voted!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 09, 2008, 01:12:21 AM
Oh well J. J.  Win some, lose some.
I still think Hillary has a decent shot to get the nomination.  I don't understand why no one else gets it.

She doesn't have a shot, unless something comes out on Obama between now and the nomination (and it would have to be bad).  She does have a very good shot of destroying the convention at this point.

LOL. You were saying Hillary still had a good shot as late as early JUNE. The second sentence has no basis in reality whatsoever (as she has made absolutely no intentions at all toward doing so.)

But then again, how many post-NH J. J. predictions have come true?

Hillary would come close in South Carolina.

SC I'm sure about.

Quote
Hillary would destroy Obama on Super Tuesday.


I think I said Obama needed a victory to win on Super Tuesday to end the primary.  I'm soooooo glad he ended the primary in January.


Quote
Hillary would come close in Virginia because the independents would all vote for McCain despite that race being over for some inexplicable reason.

Would you care to post the link

Quote
Hillary would win or come close in Wisconsin because some imaginary polls showed it "tightening"

That one I'll give you.

Quote
Hillary would win Pennsylvania by a strong double digits and a crushing in delegates.

She did by double digits, I did think it would be stronger.

Quote
Hillary would win Indiana by a landslide and keep NC in single digits.

"Landslide?"  I think I said she had to keep NC in single digits.

Quote
Hillary would get the Florida and Michigan delegates seated at full strength with the Michigan delegation exactly as the vote went allowing Hillary to take some uncommitted.

No, I said that Obama needed to resolve it, or it would fester into a problem.  I suggested that they hold a second primary in MI.  The damage has been done. 

Quote
Did I miss any?

New Hampshire, mini-Super Tuesday, the primary not being over until June, some potential problems at the convention.  Now, we wait until tomorrow.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on August 09, 2008, 01:32:48 AM
Here's a link:

The independents vote for McCain.  Hillary gets the conservative Democratic vote (which is still there).  VA also seems to have a number of Latinos and Asians (9% overall, vs. 19% African American).  The remaining 70% are Caucasian.

It's possible for a VA win for Clinton.  Primary, correct?

The bolded part..LOLOLOLOLOL! Some of the most extreme idiocy I've ever read.

Hillary's margin of victory in PA = 9.14 points. Less than double digits. Hillary's margin of delegates in Pennsylvania = far less than the 20 something J. J. predicted.

NC:

NC - Obama wins but under preforms, 4-5 points above Clinton.

No, I said that Obama needed to resolve it

No, you said flat out that both states would have delegations seated and Obama would just have to "grab as many of the uncommited as he could" in Michigan. The uncomitted were a complete moot issue in Michigan it turned out.

I suggested that they hold a second primary in MI.

As if your suggestions have any bearing whatsoever on the results. ::)


You are illiterate. I'd point out the part of my post that excludes this but anyone of inteligence above third grade should be able to find it out.

the primary not being over until June

Same prediction as me. At least I wasn't saying in early June Obama was "possibly" the nominee.

some potential problems at the convention.

"Potential" blah blah blah. Please point to me any remote indicator that all of Hillary's delegates are planning to walk out of the convention which you claim is some very likely event (or the fact that Hillary plans on doing anything at the convention other than hold a vote that she loses. Hillary's delegates vote for Hillary, Obama's delegates vote for Obama. Wow, what a huge fucking problem.)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 09, 2008, 09:49:17 AM

Here's a link:

The independents vote for McCain.  Hillary gets the conservative Democratic vote (which is still there).  VA also seems to have a number of Latinos and Asians (9% overall, vs. 19% African American).  The remaining 70% are Caucasian.

It's possible for a VA win for Clinton.  Primary, correct?

The bolded part..LOLOLOLOLOL! Some of the most extreme idiocy I've ever read.

No that is an answer to your question: "Re: Can anyone explain what a Hillary victory in Virginia would look like? "

I'll give you PA and NC, but no "landslide" in IN.


Quote

No, you said flat out that both states would have delegations seated and Obama would just have to "grab as many of the uncommited as he could" in Michigan. The uncomitted were a complete moot issue in Michigan it turned out.

I suggested that they hold a second primary in MI.

As if your suggestions have any bearing whatsoever on the results. ::)

No BRTD, I said he should resolve it, then he wouldn't be facing the complains over it.  What he faced the charges of a "coup" and a "stolen" nomination.  I don't think either charge is accurate, but they have happened and the Democratic party has been divided.  It may not heal in time for the election.

Quote

You are illiterate. I'd point out the part of my post that excludes this but anyone of inteligence above third grade should be able to find it out.

the primary not being over until June

Same prediction as me. At least I wasn't saying in early June Obama was "possibly" the nominee.

I was looking at a way to end the process well before June

Quote
Quote
some potential problems at the convention.

"Potential" blah blah blah. Please point to me any remote indicator that all of Hillary's delegates are planning to walk out of the convention which you claim is some very likely event (or the fact that Hillary plans on doing anything at the convention other than hold a vote that she loses. Hillary's delegates vote for Hillary, Obama's delegates vote for Obama. Wow, what a huge fucking problem.)

Yes, it is huge if 30-45% of the Democratic delegates say they don't want the nominee.  It's huge from a PR standpoint.  It happened to the Democrats in 1980, the Republicans to a lesser extent in 1976, and to a greater extent in 1964.  Really the only postwar one where a divided party elected a president was 1948.

I doubt if this will be 1964, but something between 1976 (R) and 1980 (D) is a possibility.  We'll see how it plays out in a few week, but it did play out during the past week.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 09, 2008, 12:07:43 PM
Saturday, August 9, 2008

Obama - 47% (+1)
McCain - 42% (-1))

These results are based on a three-day rolling average of interviews conducted Aug. 6-8, with Gallup polling roughly 900 registered voters nationwide each night. The nightly numbers for each of these nights have been similar, suggesting preferences are stable.

Generally speaking, the structure of the race remains as it has been since early June, with Obama holding a modest advantage over McCain.

Obama has begun a weeklong vacation in Hawaii. It is unclear what impact his absence from the campaign trail will have. On one hand, the country's attention may be consumed by the Olympic games and the candidates might not get much attention anyway. On the other hand, to the extent voters are tuned into politics, McCain will have the stage to himself.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on August 09, 2008, 12:17:57 PM
Weekend bounce is back.

Sigh.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on August 09, 2008, 12:19:28 PM

Umm... no.

There is not a weekend sample in this tracking poll.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on August 09, 2008, 12:29:27 PM

Umm... no.

There is not a weekend sample in this tracking poll.

Friday, Saturday, Sunday constitutes the weekend.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on August 09, 2008, 12:34:01 PM

Umm... no.

There is not a weekend sample in this tracking poll.

Friday, Saturday, Sunday constitutes the weekend.

You're kinda underestimating the potential for static here, too.  Obama may do 1-3 points better on a weekend, but either candidate may do 1-3 points better randomly too.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on August 09, 2008, 01:30:53 PM
If Obama is actually up +2 (which is my own personal guess - 1.5 to 2, it's what the state poll average says too), then Obama +5 is within the MOE of these tracking polls, and quite frankly, so is McCain +1.

Also, what Alcon said - and you have to into account that bad samples may occur.

However, if there is actual movement back to Obama, it will become apparent, you just have to give it time to make sure that what appears like movement isn't just a bad sample or a mirage bounce (like the European trip).  It's kind of like a waiting game.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 09, 2008, 03:39:16 PM
If Obama is actually up +2 (which is my own personal guess - 1.5 to 2, it's what the state poll average says too), then Obama +5 is within the MOE of these tracking polls, and quite frankly, so is McCain +1.

Also, what Alcon said - and you have to into account that bad samples may occur.

However, if there is actual movement back to Obama, it will become apparent, you just have to give it time to make sure that what appears like movement isn't just a bad sample or a mirage bounce (like the European trip).  It's kind of like a waiting game.

I'm also thinking that there might be something with the sample methods.  Maybe over representing McCain midweek, or over representing Obama on the weekends.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 10, 2008, 12:03:18 PM
Sunday, August 10, 2008

Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 43% (+1)

Obama is on vacation in Hawaii, and while McCain continues to make campaign appearances, many Americans are watching the Olympics and presumably not focused heavily on the presidential campaign at this time. Indeed, the current three percentage point Obama advantage is right at the average gap Gallup Poll Daily tracking has measured all summer so far.

The one political news story attracting significant attention over the last two days has been former Democratic vice-presidential nominee John Edwards' public confession that he had an extramarital affair. Given the remarkable stability of the presidential race this summer so far, it is unlikely that the Edwards situation will have any impact on voters' preferences for Obama or McCain. The most reasonable hypothesis is that the next potential opportunity for substantial change in voter preferences will come with the vice-presidential announcements and the back-to-back Democratic and Republican conventions.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on August 10, 2008, 12:11:07 PM
Hmm, I must say I am baffled how his lead didn't grow with Saturday polling included.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on August 10, 2008, 12:16:58 PM
Hmm, I must say I am baffled how his lead didn't grow with Saturday polling included.

Because, for the second time, you are ignoring natural volatility/bad sampling, and assuming that this is a flat-lined race with Obama spikes on weekends.  Also, consider rounding; it's possible, maybe likely (tendency toward the mean) that the previous result was a "weak" +5.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 10, 2008, 12:51:44 PM
Hmm, I must say I am baffled how his lead didn't grow with Saturday polling included.

Because, for the second time, you are ignoring natural volatility/bad sampling, and assuming that this is a flat-lined race with Obama spikes on weekends.  Also, consider rounding; it's possible, maybe likely (tendency toward the mean) that the previous result was a "weak" +5.

There may have been a higher than normal sample for Obama midweek?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on August 10, 2008, 12:54:00 PM
Three words certain people need to remember:

MARGIN OF ERROR


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Vsanto5 on August 10, 2008, 01:26:06 PM
Hmm, I must say I am baffled how his lead didn't grow with Saturday polling included.

Because, for the second time, you are ignoring natural volatility/bad sampling, and assuming that this is a flat-lined race with Obama spikes on weekends.  Also, consider rounding; it's possible, maybe likely (tendency toward the mean) that the previous result was a "weak" +5.

There may have been a higher than normal sample for Obama midweek?

Yesterday's Rasmussen poll seems to be the opposite.  If that is the case than McCain is in serious trouble.  It always seems the Rasmussen and Gallup polls are opposite of each other since earlier in the summer Rassmussen had Obama ahead and Gallup had the race closer, now Rassmussen has the race closer and Gallup has Obama outside the margin of error or within a reasonable prediction.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on August 10, 2008, 01:43:38 PM
Hmm, I must say I am baffled how his lead didn't grow with Saturday polling included.

Because, for the second time, you are ignoring natural volatility/bad sampling, and assuming that this is a flat-lined race with Obama spikes on weekends.  Also, consider rounding; it's possible, maybe likely (tendency toward the mean) that the previous result was a "weak" +5.

There may have been a higher than normal sample for Obama midweek?

Very possible, but again:  Consider rounding.  Consider margin of error.  We're seeing movement here at a very low confidence rate.  People trust polls too literally, and then assail them too much because of it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on August 10, 2008, 01:51:18 PM
Hmm, I must say I am baffled how his lead didn't grow with Saturday polling included.

Because, for the second time, you are ignoring natural volatility/bad sampling, and assuming that this is a flat-lined race with Obama spikes on weekends.  Also, consider rounding; it's possible, maybe likely (tendency toward the mean) that the previous result was a "weak" +5.

There may have been a higher than normal sample for Obama midweek?

Very possible, but again:  Consider rounding.  Consider margin of error.  We're seeing movement here at a very low confidence rate.  People trust polls too literally, and then assail them too much because of it.

In other words, we need to look at the forest, not the trees...  Really?  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Umengus on August 10, 2008, 03:11:42 PM
We are still in summer guys...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 10, 2008, 03:22:19 PM
Hmm, I must say I am baffled how his lead didn't grow with Saturday polling included.

Because, for the second time, you are ignoring natural volatility/bad sampling, and assuming that this is a flat-lined race with Obama spikes on weekends.  Also, consider rounding; it's possible, maybe likely (tendency toward the mean) that the previous result was a "weak" +5.

There may have been a higher than normal sample for Obama midweek?

Yesterday's Rasmussen poll seems to be the opposite.  If that is the case than McCain is in serious trouble.  It always seems the Rasmussen and Gallup polls are opposite of each other since earlier in the summer Rassmussen had Obama ahead and Gallup had the race closer, now Rassmussen has the race closer and Gallup has Obama outside the margin of error or within a reasonable prediction.

The weekend have tended to be higher for Obama in Gallup, and not in Rasmussen.  I was actually thinking that there was something in the sample method that might account for it.  Now, with this week probably not, but I'm wondering if last weeks sample might have had  single skewed  sample (or, conversely, this one has a skewed sample for McCain).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: agcatter on August 10, 2008, 07:24:20 PM
Rasmussen uses very hard party weighting (currently D + 9).  That means less variance on weekends.  Even when less Republicans are polled on weekends (which is normal) the Republican numbers are counted at 31.5% of the sample and the Democrats are weighted at 40.5% regardless of the number of Dems in the sample.

Rasmussen adjusts the weight of each party he uses based on a constantly rolling 3 month sample of 15,000 adults (5,000 per month) asking their Party ID.  Based on that he had it at D + 10 in July and tweeked it to D + 9 August 1st.

Interestingly his July sample of 5000 showed D + 7.8.  If he gets something around that number for his 5000 August sample, we can probably expect his D + 9 to decline a half a point or so beginning September 1st.  Or it could go up if his August party ID sample comes up more Democratic.

Gallup varies more on weekends because they don't use the hard party weighting and are reliant on whatever number of Republicans or Democrats they happen to pick up on a given night.  There will thus be more fluctuation especially on the weekends.

Rasmussen used the  method he's using now in 2004 and absolutely nailed it.

Of course, Rasmussen is using likely voters as opposed to registered in Gallup.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on August 10, 2008, 07:26:33 PM

Of course. I'd personally say this race is a dead tie.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: agcatter on August 10, 2008, 07:29:48 PM
I'd say it is Obama + 1.5 at present and definitely not the Obama + 6 or 7 you see in Pew and CBS/NYT, Newsweek etc.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on August 10, 2008, 09:48:24 PM
The Democratic margin in party ID will continue to decline over August and September - on that I will place money.

My question is - how is Gallup's tracking poll conducted, because presumably, it's not conducted like the normal Gallup poll is, otherwise we'd see the huge bumps - Alcon?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 11, 2008, 12:04:49 PM
Monday, August 11, 2008

Obama - 47% (+1)
McCain - 42% (-1)

The pattern of Americans' support for the two presumptive presidential nominees has shown little substantive change so far in August. There have been eight Gallup Poll Daily tracking reports based on interviewing conducted entirely in the month of August, and in each of these Obama has received either 46% or 47% of the support of registered voters. McCain has received between 42% and 44% support. These estimates of support for the two candidates show no significant change, a finding that is not surprising given the attention being given to the Olympics by voters, the fact that Obama is on vacation, and the general lack of major news generating events from the presidential campaign front.

The dramatic news of the sudden war which erupted in the Republic of Georgia has certainly been prominently displayed in newspapers, on television, and on Internet news sites, but the probability that these events will significantly change the U.S. presidential race is most likely low.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: RJ on August 11, 2008, 01:50:44 PM
I really wish people would just give up on this "weekend polling" crap. I've lost track if the polls are supposed to be more in favor of which candidate and on what days. When the polls tighten/open up, everyone tries to justify why it's where it is with the equivalent of specious reasoning.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 11, 2008, 02:06:28 PM
I really wish people would just give up on this "weekend polling" crap. I've lost track if the polls are supposed to be more in favor of which candidate and on what days. When the polls tighten/open up, everyone tries to justify why it's where it is with the equivalent of specious reasoning.

But yet it is usually there, or a midweek bounce for McCain, whichever way you want to measure it.  I'll add that it's usually there in Gallup, and not Rasmussen.

I think it might have more to do with how Gallup is sampling than any movement in the race.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: RJ on August 11, 2008, 03:55:31 PM
But yet it is usually there, or a midweek bounce for McCain, whichever way you want to measure it.  I'll add that it's usually there in Gallup, and not Rasmussen.

Here are the reaults from the last 15 days of the Gallup tracking poll:

Mon 7/28:      Obama +8
Tue 7/29:       Obama +6
Wed 7/30:      Obama +4
Thurs: 7/31:   Obama +1
Fri 8/1:           Tie
Sat 8/2:           Tie
Sun 8/3:          Obama +1
Mon 8/4:         Obama +3
Tue 8/5:          Obama +4
Wed 8/6:         Obama +2
Thurs: 8/7:      Obama +3
Fri 8/8:            Obama +3
Sat 8/9:            Obama +5
Sun 8/10:         Obama +3
Mon 8/11:        Obama +5

I'm just curious how you've interpreted this "bounce" from the data. Obama's lead may have seemed great Mon July 28/Tue July 29(which incidentally is the week after he got back from his Europe/Mideast trip) when compared to the later part of that particular week but it hovered around the same and if anything grew in the later part of last week when compared to mid or early week.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Gustaf on August 11, 2008, 04:26:34 PM
I believe the idea is that the trend has been there for more than 15 days. It obviously didn't turn out that way for the last week and you can argue away the week before that with Obama's Middle East trip and there are your two weeks. You would have to look further back to test the hypothesis.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 12, 2008, 12:04:00 PM
Tuesday, August 12, 2008

Obama - 47% (nc)
McCain - 42% (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on August 12, 2008, 12:34:56 PM
There may actually be some slight movement towards Obama - but it's still too early to tell, yet.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on August 12, 2008, 12:51:56 PM
I don't see how there can be movement when nothing is happening...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on August 12, 2008, 12:53:17 PM
I don't see how there can be movement when nothing is happening...

I think Sam thinks people drift toward Obama when no one is paying attention. May or may not be true.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on August 12, 2008, 01:03:50 PM
I don't see how there can be movement when nothing is happening...

I think Sam thinks people drift toward Obama when no one is paying attention. May or may not be true.

Nope.  :)  Just reading the broader week-to-week movements and when something starts to appear over the period of a week, it could mean that something is occurring.  I want to see the results tomorrow and Thursday before saying anything definite, however.

Factually though, when no one is paying attention, Democrats do poll better, because more of their base voters tend to be tuned in.  But that is not the present environment.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on August 13, 2008, 12:02:00 PM
Wednesday - August 13, 2008

Obama - 48% (+1)
McCain - 42% (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on August 13, 2008, 12:14:41 PM
By mid week, if there is no Obama VP announcement, McCain leads.

Ouch. Not even the next mid-week.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on August 13, 2008, 12:31:29 PM

Ok, dude, get over it/yourself.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on August 13, 2008, 12:34:53 PM

What's the big deal? J. J. is wrong. Do you deny that? He got owned by reality, just like he was when he was screaming that Hillary had a chance in JUNE. Do you agree he was delusional about Hillary and is delusional here?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 13, 2008, 12:41:21 PM



Mon 7/28:      Obama +8  (F, Sa, Su)<
Tue 7/29:       Obama +6  (Sa, Su, M)<
Wed 7/30:      Obama +4 (, Su, M, T)<
Thurs: 7/31:   Obama +1 (M, Tu, W)
Fri 8/1:           Tie (Tu,W, Th)
Sat 8/2:           Tie (W, Th, F) <
Sun 8/3:          Obama +1 (Th, F, Sa) <
Mon 8/4:         Obama +3 (F, Sa, Su) <
Tue 8/5:          Obama +4 (Sa, Su, Mo)<
Wed 8/6:         Obama +2 (Su, Mo, Tu)<
Thurs: 8/7:      Obama +3 (Mo, Tu, W)
Fri 8/8:            Obama +3 (Tu, W, Th)
Sat 8/9:            Obama +5 (W, Th, F)<
Sun 8/10:         Obama +3 (Th, F, SA)<
Mon 8/11:        Obama +5 (Sa, Su, M)<

What happens when the weekend number go in, Obama's lead tends to increase.  When the weekend numbers come out, he tends to drop.  An increase of numbers tomorrow for Obama, where there are no weekend numbers, will be significant.  A drop won't.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on August 13, 2008, 12:45:26 PM
Monday and Tuesday are included in these numbers.  Obama was about +1.5, maybe +2, beforehand.  Let's assume (arbitrarily) that Monday and Tuesday were +1.75 average together.  Obama is +6 today.

The Sunday sample would have to be at least Obama +14 for these numbers to be possible.

I don't think a contraction is unlikely, considering that Obama jumped up two points when the Sunday sample was included.  But, obviously his Monday sample was better than his Saturday   sample.  Does that have meaning?  Probably, but we can't be sure yet.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on August 13, 2008, 12:46:01 PM



Mon 7/28:      Obama +8  (F, Sa, Su)<
Tue 7/29:       Obama +6  (Sa, Su, M)<
Wed 7/30:      Obama +4 (, Su, M, T)<
Thurs: 7/31:   Obama +1 (M, Tu, W)
Fri 8/1:           Tie (Tu,W, Th)
Sat 8/2:           Tie (W, Th, F) <
Sun 8/3:          Obama +1 (Th, F, Sa) <
Mon 8/4:         Obama +3 (F, Sa, Su) <
Tue 8/5:          Obama +4 (Sa, Su, Mo)<
Wed 8/6:         Obama +2 (Su, Mo, Tu)<
Thurs: 8/7:      Obama +3 (Mo, Tu, W)
Fri 8/8:            Obama +3 (Tu, W, Th)
Sat 8/9:            Obama +5 (W, Th, F)<
Sun 8/10:         Obama +3 (Th, F, SA)<
Mon 8/11:        Obama +5 (Sa, Su, M)<

What happens when the weekend number go in, Obama's lead tends to increase.  When the weekend numbers come out, he tends to drop.  An increase of numbers tomorrow for Obama, where there are no weekend numbers, will be significant.  A drop won't.

And where is McCain leading like you predicted?

You. Got. Owned.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on August 13, 2008, 12:54:18 PM

What's the big deal? J. J. is wrong. Do you deny that? He got owned by reality, just like he was when he was screaming that Hillary had a chance in JUNE. Do you agree he was delusional about Hillary and is delusional here?

No, I don't deny it but you ride people to the point where people honestly loathe you. Grow the hell up. You have a very obsessive personality, dude. Seek help.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on August 13, 2008, 12:55:43 PM

What's the big deal? J. J. is wrong. Do you deny that? He got owned by reality, just like he was when he was screaming that Hillary had a chance in JUNE. Do you agree he was delusional about Hillary and is delusional here?

No, I don't deny it but you ride people to the point where people honestly loathe you. Grow the hell up. You have a very obsessive personality, dude. Seek help.

And so then what about you and the Obama winning Kansas thing?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on August 13, 2008, 01:03:52 PM
Looks like there might be a slight move back to Obama of a couple of points this past week, but I'm not 100% sure yet.

I should add that the state polling hasn't shown it yet, but that's usually slightly behind anyways.  Or at least SUSA's stuff hasn't shown it.  If this sign continues much longer, it might be a shadow bounce - wait and see...  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on August 13, 2008, 01:04:08 PM

What's the big deal? J. J. is wrong. Do you deny that? He got owned by reality, just like he was when he was screaming that Hillary had a chance in JUNE. Do you agree he was delusional about Hillary and is delusional here?

No, I don't deny it but you ride people to the point where people honestly loathe you. Grow the hell up. You have a very obsessive personality, dude. Seek help.

And so then what about you and the Obama winning Kansas thing?

You know that topic about the forum member that's like talking to a brick wall? We have a winner here!

I've said time and time and time again that I haven't been using that against Obama supporters. Others have. Accept that you are wrong with this one and move along.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: RJ on August 13, 2008, 03:13:31 PM
What happens when the weekend number go in, Obama's lead tends to increase.  When the weekend numbers come out, he tends to drop.  An increase of numbers tomorrow for Obama, where there are no weekend numbers, will be significant.  A drop won't.

What days of the week(tracking polls being released-wise), should we look for the bump?

Say, by the way Phil anything new numbers wise out of PA concerning those catholic blue collar workers? How are the polls looking there, have htey tighened up in the last few weeks?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on August 13, 2008, 05:39:07 PM
Say, by the way Phil anything new numbers wise out of PA concerning those catholic blue collar workers? How are the polls looking there, have htey tighened up in the last few weeks?

Call me out in the thread if you want to be a loud mouth tough guy, ok?

I have zero respect for those who start trouble, insist that they'll get the last word, finally grow up and admit that that way or arguing is immature and leave only to resurface when something goes their way.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 13, 2008, 05:57:55 PM
Gender Gap Among White Voters Bigger Now Than in 2004 [13 August, 2008]

Obama loses to McCain among white men; ties him among white women

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109456/Gender-Gap-Among-White-Voters-Bigger-Now-Than-2004.aspx

Gender Gap Among Non-Hispanic Whites (2008)

Men: Obama 35%; McCain 55%
Women: Obama 44%; McCain 44%

Men (by education):

High school or less: Obama 37%; McCain 53%
Some college: Obama 30%; McCain 59%
College graduate: Obama 33%; McCain 59%
Postgraduate: Obama 44%; McCain 50%

Women (by education):

High school or less: Obama 39%; McCain 46%
Some college: Obama 42%; McCain 47%
College graduate: Obama 48%; McCain 44%
Postgraduate: Obama 58%; McCain 33%

Aggregate of Gallup Poll Daily Tracking, Aug. 1-11, 2008

Gender Gap Among Non-Hispanic Whites, 2004 Presidential Election

Men: Kerry 40%; Bush 56%
Women: Kerry 42%; Bush 51%

CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll, Oct. 29-31, 2004

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 13, 2008, 06:19:45 PM
What happens when the weekend number go in, Obama's lead tends to increase.  When the weekend numbers come out, he tends to drop.  An increase of numbers tomorrow for Obama, where there are no weekend numbers, will be significant.  A drop won't.

What days of the week(tracking polls being released-wise), should we look for the bump?


Numbers that include Friday, Saturday and Sunday tend to be higher for Obama, in Gallup polls.  Polls released, Thursday and Friday, tend to be lower.  You can get lower numbers when you get just one day.  If Obama goes up tomorrow, it probably means he's doing better; if he drops, it's probably just the mid week sample.  If he drops on Sunday, it probably means he's dropped.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on August 13, 2008, 06:25:58 PM
While there has been some notice that summer polls tend to be substandard, the real wacky ones tend to come from August.

So, expect some really strange polls the next couple of weeks.

Oh, how I really miss Mason-Dixon.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on August 13, 2008, 07:02:49 PM

No kidding.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: RJ on August 13, 2008, 10:46:17 PM
Call me out in the thread if you want to be a loud mouth tough guy, ok?

I have zero respect for those who start trouble, insist that they'll get the last word, finally grow up and admit that that way or arguing is immature and leave only to resurface when something goes their way.

Would you like a little cheese with your whine??? By the way, the last thing I would expect you to say is that you have any respect for me or anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly agree with you. The second to last thing I would expect is for you to offer some hard proof of your claim.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on August 13, 2008, 10:51:30 PM

Would you like a little cheese with your whine??? By the way, the last thing I would expect you to say is that you have any respect for me or anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly agree with you.

Then you really don't know anything about me or the forum. I may be passionate in debate but I have plenty of people here that are very, very different from me with different views. Get a clue, dude.

 
Quote
The second to last thing I would expect is for you to offer some hard proof of your claim.

And didn't you "prove" that before? Sounds like someone just has a hard on...

By the way, keep telling yourself that "Catholic blue collar workers" aren't a major part of the PA electorate. That comment alone is far more assinine than anything I have ever said.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: RJ on August 14, 2008, 08:39:27 AM
I'm going to ask one more time---What is so freakin' difficult about proving what you're saying? I'm not the one making the claim here, you are. I think you also completely missed the basis of what I said before so I'll refresh your memory: What portion of the PA electorate do "catholic blue collar workers" comprise and how much of this portion would have to swing? You can't find the statistics in question or you just won't? You're going to hear about this until you have a better answer than "get a clue" or "that comment is assinine." If it bothers you, too bad.

(insert childish last word/response below)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 14, 2008, 12:07:26 PM
Thursday, August 14, 2008

Obama - 46% (-2)
McCain - 43% (+1)

These data are based on Aug. 11-13 polling, and reflect a stable period for voter preferences. Since the beginning of August, Obama's support been either 46% or 47% for all but one day of Gallup tracking (48% in Aug. 10-12 polling) and McCain's has been 42% or 43% for all but one day (44% in Aug. 3-5 polling).

Although McCain has continued to campaign in battleground states such as Michigan and Pennsylvania, Obama has been on vacation in Hawaii and the presidential campaign has largely been overshadowed in the news by the Russia-Georgia conflict and the summer Olympics.

The 3-point Obama advantage matches the average in Gallup Poll Daily tracking since he clinched the Democratic nomination in early June.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 14, 2008, 12:11:29 PM
Encouraging as six-point lead for Obama was yesterday, his numbers can go down as well as up, so spare me the cock-a-hoopedness. Euphoria can, sadly, all too often be followed by pessimism

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on August 14, 2008, 12:19:20 PM
It's McCain's midweek bounce. The notable thing is that McCain STILL has not taken the lead.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on August 14, 2008, 01:05:45 PM
I'm going to ask one more time---What is so freakin' difficult about proving what you're saying? I'm not the one making the claim here, you are. I think you also completely missed the basis of what I said before so I'll refresh your memory: What portion of the PA electorate do "catholic blue collar workers" comprise and how much of this portion would have to swing? You can't find the statistics in question or you just won't? You're going to hear about this until you have a better answer than "get a clue" or "that comment is assinine." If it bothers you, too bad.

(insert childish last word/response below)

Insert my childish remark below? Dude, we've been through this before. You have some split personality or something because you definitely gave up on this during our last argument, claiming that you "proved" your point and that you wouldn't be childish and get the last word. So, seriously, you have some thing with me and it's not worth my time.

I don't have to prove that Catholic blue collar workers are a key voting block in Pennsylvania. You're a toolbox if you can't see that on your own. You're just being a douche.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Umengus on August 14, 2008, 01:36:05 PM
this thread is funny. We are still in summer and some people are completely crazy. October will be very hard for them.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 14, 2008, 02:41:07 PM
It's McCain's midweek bounce. The notable thing is that McCain STILL has not taken the lead.

Didn't you just claim McCain would have a midweek bounce?  Or is "li'l Zack the Barack Hack" also a hypocrat.

[It actually is McCain's midweek bounce which I've referring to.  It's nothing to get excited over.  If Obama's numbers show study or go down on Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday, open the very cheap champaign (and water it down a bit).]


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Speed of Sound on August 14, 2008, 08:57:55 PM
It's McCain's midweek bounce. The notable thing is that McCain STILL has not taken the lead.

Didn't you just claim McCain would have a midweek bounce?  Or is "li'l Zack the Barack Hack" also a hypocrat.

Here ya go, BRTD:

()

Thats for the burn.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 14, 2008, 09:37:01 PM
At this point, it's more a Gallup poll phenomenon than anything important.  Don't get excited of it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on August 14, 2008, 11:09:55 PM
I never said McCain didn't perform better mid-week, I'm just mocking J. J. (who in mind has clearly never left the second grade) for his prediction that McCain would lead mid-week (LAST week) if there was no VP announcement.

You were wrong J. J. Do you deny that? McCain doesn't lead. So your prediction was idiotic and a load of crap.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on August 15, 2008, 01:52:07 AM
To be fair, J.J.'s predictions rarely ever materialize.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 15, 2008, 02:12:06 AM
I never said McCain didn't perform better mid-week, I'm just mocking J. J. (who in mind has clearly never left the second grade) for his prediction that McCain would lead mid-week (LAST week) if there was no VP announcement.

You were wrong J. J. Do you deny that? McCain doesn't lead. So your prediction was idiotic and a load of crap.

I said that there is a trend and, looking back at last week it looked like a high Obama sample in there.

BRTD, you were the one complaining about me saying that.  BRTD, being a hack and a hypocrite at the same time isn't a good combination.  Don't take my word for it; just ask John Edwards.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on August 15, 2008, 10:20:52 AM
...and McCain still doesn't lead.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 15, 2008, 01:10:53 PM
Friday, August 15, 2008

Obama - 44% (-2)
McCain - 44% (+1)

The Aug. 12-14 polling shows a slight dip in Obama's support, which had ranged between 46% and 48% (averaging 47%) in August. McCain has averaged 43% support among registered voters so far in August. Thus, the closer margin seen in today's results is due more to movement away from Obama than toward McCain. Twelve percent of registered voters now say they are undecided or supporting another candidate, which is on the high end of what Gallup has measured this year.

Voter preferences have been closely divided between Obama and McCain in each of the last three individual nights of polling, underscoring the notion that the race has tightened for the moment. This could to some degree reflect Obama's absence from the campaign trail while he vacations in Hawaii. He will return to the spotlight over the next few weeks upon naming his vice presidential running mate and accepting his party's nomination for president at the Democratic national convention, and both events have typically been associated with a bounce in support for a presidential candidate.

On Thursday, the Obama and Hillary Clinton campaigns announced an agreement to put her name into nomination for president at the convention. Given that the race has been tight for the past few days, it is unlikely this announcement is related to any change in Obama's support.

Since early June when Obama clinched the nomination, he has averaged a three percentage point advantage over McCain in Gallup Poll Daily tracking.


::)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on August 15, 2008, 01:12:06 PM
Just for you, Hawk...


:)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on August 15, 2008, 01:14:21 PM
bumping around...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on August 15, 2008, 01:16:11 PM
Friday, August 15, 2008

Obama - 44% (-2)
McCain - 44% (+1)

The Aug. 12-14 polling shows a slight dip in Obama's support, which had ranged between 46% and 48% (averaging 47%) in August. McCain has averaged 43% support among registered voters so far in August. Thus, the closer margin seen in today's results is due more to movement away from Obama than toward McCain. Twelve percent of registered voters now say they are undecided or supporting another candidate, which is on the high end of what Gallup has measured this year.

Voter preferences have been closely divided between Obama and McCain in each of the last three individual nights of polling, underscoring the notion that the race has tightened for the moment. This could to some degree reflect Obama's absence from the campaign trail while he vacations in Hawaii. He will return to the spotlight over the next few weeks upon naming his vice presidential running mate and accepting his party's nomination for president at the Democratic national convention, and both events have typically been associated with a bounce in support for a presidential candidate.

On Thursday, the Obama and Hillary Clinton campaigns announced an agreement to put her name into nomination for president at the convention. Given that the race has been tight for the past few days, it is unlikely this announcement is related to any change in Obama's support.

Since early June when Obama clinched the nomination, he has averaged a three percentage point advantage over McCain in Gallup Poll Daily tracking.


::)

I suspect that the combination of Obama's feckless statements on the Russian invasion of Georgia, coupled with McCain's superlative statements on the same matter has resulted in McCain's closing the gap.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Dan the Roman on August 15, 2008, 01:50:19 PM
Friday, August 15, 2008

Obama - 44% (-2)
McCain - 44% (+1)

The Aug. 12-14 polling shows a slight dip in Obama's support, which had ranged between 46% and 48% (averaging 47%) in August. McCain has averaged 43% support among registered voters so far in August. Thus, the closer margin seen in today's results is due more to movement away from Obama than toward McCain. Twelve percent of registered voters now say they are undecided or supporting another candidate, which is on the high end of what Gallup has measured this year.

Voter preferences have been closely divided between Obama and McCain in each of the last three individual nights of polling, underscoring the notion that the race has tightened for the moment. This could to some degree reflect Obama's absence from the campaign trail while he vacations in Hawaii. He will return to the spotlight over the next few weeks upon naming his vice presidential running mate and accepting his party's nomination for president at the Democratic national convention, and both events have typically been associated with a bounce in support for a presidential candidate.

On Thursday, the Obama and Hillary Clinton campaigns announced an agreement to put her name into nomination for president at the convention. Given that the race has been tight for the past few days, it is unlikely this announcement is related to any change in Obama's support.

Since early June when Obama clinched the nomination, he has averaged a three percentage point advantage over McCain in Gallup Poll Daily tracking.


::)

I suspect that the combination of Obama's feckless statements on the Russian invasion of Georgia, coupled with McCain's superlative statements on the same matter has resulted in McCain's closing the gap.

Perhaps, but those same reckless statements ensured that many people who actually follow the region will never vote for them. I know several people at the think tank where I worked switched their votes to Obama in response.

There was nothing superlative about McCain's remarks. It is pathetically easy to take a hardline stance on anything to score cheap political points provided you don't care about the consequences.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 15, 2008, 02:15:53 PM
This is the midweek bump for McCain.  Tomorrow, we should see something with a weekend sample in it (Friday's numbers).  It probably[/b] has little to do with the race and more to do with how Gallup gets its sample.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on August 15, 2008, 02:57:32 PM
Friday, August 15, 2008

Obama - 44% (-2)
McCain - 44% (+1)

The Aug. 12-14 polling shows a slight dip in Obama's support, which had ranged between 46% and 48% (averaging 47%) in August. McCain has averaged 43% support among registered voters so far in August. Thus, the closer margin seen in today's results is due more to movement away from Obama than toward McCain. Twelve percent of registered voters now say they are undecided or supporting another candidate, which is on the high end of what Gallup has measured this year.

Voter preferences have been closely divided between Obama and McCain in each of the last three individual nights of polling, underscoring the notion that the race has tightened for the moment. This could to some degree reflect Obama's absence from the campaign trail while he vacations in Hawaii. He will return to the spotlight over the next few weeks upon naming his vice presidential running mate and accepting his party's nomination for president at the Democratic national convention, and both events have typically been associated with a bounce in support for a presidential candidate.

On Thursday, the Obama and Hillary Clinton campaigns announced an agreement to put her name into nomination for president at the convention. Given that the race has been tight for the past few days, it is unlikely this announcement is related to any change in Obama's support.

Since early June when Obama clinched the nomination, he has averaged a three percentage point advantage over McCain in Gallup Poll Daily tracking.


::)

I suspect that the combination of Obama's feckless statements on the Russian invasion of Georgia, coupled with McCain's superlative statements on the same matter has resulted in McCain's closing the gap.

Perhaps, but those same reckless statements ensured that many people who actually follow the region will never vote for them. I know several people at the think tank where I worked switched their votes to Obama in response.

There was nothing superlative about McCain's remarks. It is pathetically easy to take a hardline stance on anything to score cheap political points provided you don't care about the consequences.

Sorry Dave, but you're sounding a lot like Neville Chamberlin.

It seems to me you work at a NO THINKING tank staffed by  apologists for aggression (and yes, I would expect the to support Obama who would never oppose aggression).

It is morally easy to oppose aggression, and it is immoral and stupid to apologize for it.

The consequences of appeasement should be obvious to anyone with and IQ above that of a rock.

What happened to you Dave, once you were a reasonable person, now you an advocate of appeasement.

That's really pathetic!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on August 15, 2008, 03:27:06 PM
the issue is not whether to oppose aggression.  the issue is who is the aggressor.

I suppose you also believe that it would have been easy to oppose the us invasion of iraq because clearly, we were the aggressor.  Unfortunately, life and aggression and war is never that simple.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Dan the Roman on August 15, 2008, 04:13:51 PM
Friday, August 15, 2008

Obama - 44% (-2)
McCain - 44% (+1)
 The Aug. 12-14 polling shows a slight dip in Obama's support, which had ranged between 46% and 48% (averaging 47%) in August. McCain has averaged 43% support among registered voters so far in August. Thus, the closer margin seen in today's results is due more to movement away from Obama than toward McCain. Twelve percent of registered voters now say they are undecided or supporting another candidate, which is on the high end of what Gallup has measured this year.

Voter preferences have been closely divided between Obama and McCain in each of the last three individual nights of polling, underscoring the notion that the race has tightened for the moment. This could to some degree reflect Obama's absence from the campaign trail while he vacations in Hawaii. He will return to the spotlight over the next few weeks upon naming his vice presidential running mate and accepting his party's nomination for president at the Democratic national convention, and both events have typically been associated with a bounce in support for a presidential candidate.

On Thursday, the Obama and Hillary Clinton campaigns announced an agreement to put her name into nomination for president at the convention. Given that the race has been tight for the past few days, it is unlikely this announcement is related to any change in Obama's support.

Since early June when Obama clinched the nomination, he has averaged a three percentage point advantage over McCain in Gallup Poll Daily tracking.


::)

I suspect that the combination of Obama's feckless statements on the Russian invasion of Georgia, coupled with McCain's superlative statements on the same matter has resulted in McCain's closing the gap.

Perhaps, but those same reckless statements ensured that many people who actually follow the region will never vote for them. I know several people at the think tank where I worked switched their votes to Obama in response.

There was nothing superlative about McCain's remarks. It is pathetically easy to take a hardline stance on anything to score cheap political points provided you don't care about the consequences.

Sorry Dave, but you're sounding a lot like Neville Chamberlin.

It seems to me you work at a NO THINKING tank staffed by  apologists for aggression (and yes, I would expect the to support Obama who would never oppose aggression).

It is morally easy to oppose aggression, and it is immoral and stupid to apologize for it.

The consequences of appeasement should be obvious to anyone with and IQ above that of a rock.

What happened to you Dave, once you were a reasonable person, now you an advocate of appeasement.

That's really pathetic!

Kinda funny because I worked at Hudson, which is not known as a stronghold of leftist thought. It was mostly people who actually knew facts

A. About the situation, other than "OMG a country has Russian troops marching in, Hitler has come back from the dead, appeasement, Chamblerain, look how smart I am, I am making reference to historical events I don't understand"

B. About our military options and lack thereof

C. The position of every other country in the world which thought that the Georgians started it and would not have backed a President McCain in support of Georgia.

I'm not an advocate for appeasement. There is however a time and place to fight and a time and place not to. As a practical matter there is nothing the US can do about Georgia. It is within Russia's sphere of influence, and if Russia wants to occupy there is nothing we can do. Should we have threatened nuclear war with Russia when they moved into Hungary in 1956? Was Eisenhower engaging in appeasement when he stood back? If McCain had been President during the Cold War we might have stood against aggression all cases, but you and I would be dead right now because McCain would have blown the world to kingdom come over Hungary, or Czechoslovakia, or Afghanistan, or Cuba.

For a President I have something I call the Cuban Missile Crisis test. The question is if blank were President in 1962, would we be dead, red, or safe in bed. With McCain, he seems determined to prove to me and everyone else that we would end up dead. With Obama, he strikes me as the person who would talk to Khrushchev and realize that this crisis is not worth destroying the planet.

 Furthermore, McCain has no idea of how he would actually go about standing up to aggression. Notice he talks about how we have to stand up, but he has no suggestions on how we actually could have done anything. All he suggests is that kick Russia out of the G8. First of all that would never happen because Europe would not go along. Second, if McCain succeeded, all he would do is destroy the G8, which is influential because it includes the world's major powers.

CarlHayden, not to mean any offense, but how would you have "stood up against aggression" in this case? We have heard a lot of posters urging us to do so, and a lot of attacks on those of us who feel this is domestic posturing as appeasers, so what actions would you recommend us taking.

And if we are not actually able to take any effective action, wouldn't John McCain's ultimatum to Russia end up humiliating the United States if McCain talked a big game but then had to back down because he was incapable of doing anything?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on August 15, 2008, 04:15:39 PM
Friday, August 15, 2008

Obama - 44% (-2)
McCain - 44% (+1)

The Aug. 12-14 polling shows a slight dip in Obama's support, which had ranged between 46% and 48% (averaging 47%) in August. McCain has averaged 43% support among registered voters so far in August. Thus, the closer margin seen in today's results is due more to movement away from Obama than toward McCain. Twelve percent of registered voters now say they are undecided or supporting another candidate, which is on the high end of what Gallup has measured this year.

Voter preferences have been closely divided between Obama and McCain in each of the last three individual nights of polling, underscoring the notion that the race has tightened for the moment. This could to some degree reflect Obama's absence from the campaign trail while he vacations in Hawaii. He will return to the spotlight over the next few weeks upon naming his vice presidential running mate and accepting his party's nomination for president at the Democratic national convention, and both events have typically been associated with a bounce in support for a presidential candidate.

On Thursday, the Obama and Hillary Clinton campaigns announced an agreement to put her name into nomination for president at the convention. Given that the race has been tight for the past few days, it is unlikely this announcement is related to any change in Obama's support.

Since early June when Obama clinched the nomination, he has averaged a three percentage point advantage over McCain in Gallup Poll Daily tracking.


::)

:)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on August 15, 2008, 04:34:58 PM
Too bad he's actually moving up in Rasmussen's polling.

It's still summer folks. Rest easy.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on August 15, 2008, 10:49:05 PM
.[/quote]

I suspect that the combination of Obama's feckless statements on the Russian invasion of Georgia, coupled with McCain's superlative statements on the same matter has resulted in McCain's closing the gap.
[/quote]

Perhaps, but those same reckless statements ensured that many people who actually follow the region will never vote for them. I know several people at the think tank where I worked switched their votes to Obama in response.

There was nothing superlative about McCain's remarks. It is pathetically easy to take a hardline stance on anything to score cheap political points provided you don't care about the consequences.
[/quote]

Sorry Dave, but you're sounding a lot like Neville Chamberlin.

It seems to me you work at a NO THINKING tank staffed by  apologists for aggression (and yes, I would expect the to support Obama who would never oppose aggression).

It is morally easy to oppose aggression, and it is immoral and stupid to apologize for it.

The consequences of appeasement should be obvious to anyone with and IQ above that of a rock.

What happened to you Dave, once you were a reasonable person, now you an advocate of appeasement.

That's really pathetic!
[/quote]

Kinda funny because I worked at Hudson, which is not known as a stronghold of leftist thought. It was mostly people who actually knew facts

A. About the situation, other than "OMG a country has Russian troops marching in, Hitler has come back from the dead, appeasement, Chamblerain, look how smart I am, I am making reference to historical events I don't understand"

B. About our military options and lack thereof

C. The position of every other country in the world which thought that the Georgians started it and would not have backed a President McCain in support of Georgia.

I'm not an advocate for appeasement. There is however a time and place to fight and a time and place not to. As a practical matter there is nothing the US can do about Georgia. It is within Russia's sphere of influence, and if Russia wants to occupy there is nothing we can do. Should we have threatened nuclear war with Russia when they moved into Hungary in 1956? Was Eisenhower engaging in appeasement when he stood back? If McCain had been President during the Cold War we might have stood against aggression all cases, but you and I would be dead right now because McCain would have blown the world to kingdom come over Hungary, or Czechoslovakia, or Afghanistan, or Cuba.

For a President I have something I call the Cuban Missile Crisis test. The question is if blank were President in 1962, would we be dead, red, or safe in bed. With McCain, he seems determined to prove to me and everyone else that we would end up dead. With Obama, he strikes me as the person who would talk to Khrushchev and realize that this crisis is not worth destroying the planet.

 Furthermore, McCain has no idea of how he would actually go about standing up to aggression. Notice he talks about how we have to stand up, but he has no suggestions on how we actually could have done anything. All he suggests is that kick Russia out of the G8. First of all that would never happen because Europe would not go along. Second, if McCain succeeded, all he would do is destroy the G8, which is influential because it includes the world's major powers.

CarlHayden, not to mean any offense, but how would you have "stood up against aggression" in this case? We have heard a lot of posters urging us to do so, and a lot of attacks on those of us who feel this is domestic posturing as appeasers, so what actions would you recommend us taking.

And if we are not actually able to take any effective action, wouldn't John McCain's ultimatum to Russia end up humiliating the United States if McCain talked a big game but then had to back down because he was incapable of doing anything?
[/quote]

First, yes you are an advocate of appeasement.  Your position, stripped of its empty rhetoric, amounts to any country bordering Russia is in their "sphere of influence," and they can invade those countries any time they want to with impunity.

Second, you engage in a classic logical fallacy of either the United States appeasing the Russians, or nuclear war.  However, thoughtful people recognize a range of alternatives including providing would be victims of Russian aggression the means of defending themselves.  Now I realize this thought never occured to YOU.  I have repeatedly advocated this method.

Third, people (well not in your case) not nations "think."  Further, while I understand that you may believe that the Georgians invaded Russia, the fact is that the Russians invaded Georgia.  Oh, and you blanket statement that all nations "think" as you do is both fallacious and false.  A number of eastern european heads of state stood with Georgia in a public statement a few days ago which you seemed to have missed.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Dan the Roman on August 16, 2008, 02:30:34 AM
Quote


I suspect that the combination of Obama's feckless statements on the Russian invasion of Georgia, coupled with McCain's superlative statements on the same matter has resulted in McCain's closing the gap.

Perhaps, but those same reckless statements ensured that many people who actually follow the region will never vote for them. I know several people at the think tank where I worked switched their votes to Obama in response.

There was nothing superlative about McCain's remarks. It is pathetically easy to take a hardline stance on anything to score cheap political points provided you don't care about the consequences.

Sorry Dave, but you're sounding a lot like Neville Chamberlin.

It seems to me you work at a NO THINKING tank staffed by  apologists for aggression (and yes, I would expect the to support Obama who would never oppose aggression).

It is morally easy to oppose aggression, and it is immoral and stupid to apologize for it.

The consequences of appeasement should be obvious to anyone with and IQ above that of a rock.

What happened to you Dave, once you were a reasonable person, now you an advocate of appeasement.

That's really pathetic!
[/quote]

Kinda funny because I worked at Hudson, which is not known as a stronghold of leftist thought. It was mostly people who actually knew facts

A. About the situation, other than "OMG a country has Russian troops marching in, Hitler has come back from the dead, appeasement, Chamblerain, look how smart I am, I am making reference to historical events I don't understand"

B. About our military options and lack thereof

C. The position of every other country in the world which thought that the Georgians started it and would not have backed a President McCain in support of Georgia.

I'm not an advocate for appeasement. There is however a time and place to fight and a time and place not to. As a practical matter there is nothing the US can do about Georgia. It is within Russia's sphere of influence, and if Russia wants to occupy there is nothing we can do. Should we have threatened nuclear war with Russia when they moved into Hungary in 1956? Was Eisenhower engaging in appeasement when he stood back? If McCain had been President during the Cold War we might have stood against aggression all cases, but you and I would be dead right now because McCain would have blown the world to kingdom come over Hungary, or Czechoslovakia, or Afghanistan, or Cuba.

For a President I have something I call the Cuban Missile Crisis test. The question is if blank were President in 1962, would we be dead, red, or safe in bed. With McCain, he seems determined to prove to me and everyone else that we would end up dead. With Obama, he strikes me as the person who would talk to Khrushchev and realize that this crisis is not worth destroying the planet.

 Furthermore, McCain has no idea of how he would actually go about standing up to aggression. Notice he talks about how we have to stand up, but he has no suggestions on how we actually could have done anything. All he suggests is that kick Russia out of the G8. First of all that would never happen because Europe would not go along. Second, if McCain succeeded, all he would do is destroy the G8, which is influential because it includes the world's major powers.

CarlHayden, not to mean any offense, but how would you have "stood up against aggression" in this case? We have heard a lot of posters urging us to do so, and a lot of attacks on those of us who feel this is domestic posturing as appeasers, so what actions would you recommend us taking.

And if we are not actually able to take any effective action, wouldn't John McCain's ultimatum to Russia end up humiliating the United States if McCain talked a big game but then had to back down because he was incapable of doing anything?
[/quote]

First, yes you are an advocate of appeasement.  Your position, stripped of its empty rhetoric, amounts to any country bordering Russia is in their "sphere of influence," and they can invade those countries any time they want to with impunity.

Second, you engage in a classic logical fallacy of either the United States appeasing the Russians, or nuclear war.  However, thoughtful people recognize a range of alternatives including providing would be victims of Russian aggression the means of defending themselves.  Now I realize this thought never occured to YOU.  I have repeatedly advocated this method.

Third, people (well not in your case) not nations "think."  Further, while I understand that you may believe that the Georgians invaded Russia, the fact is that the Russians invaded Georgia.  Oh, and you blanket statement that all nations "think" as you do is both fallacious and false.  A number of eastern european heads of state stood with Georgia in a public statement a few days ago which you seemed to have missed.


[/quote]
[/quote]
Did any of those Eastern European nations actually do anything? No. And quite frankly, the fact that we were arming Georgia is a major reason why Putin felt the need to punish them. There is no amount of armerments short of nukes that we could give to Georgia that would stop Russia from doing what it likes with them if it really wanted to. If Georgia had had 500 tanks instead of 200 it would might have let them hang on for another day against Russia's 6000. I have thought through this suggestion, and I have taken into account matters of scale, something that none of its proponents have done.

As to your point that

Quote
First, yes you are an advocate of appeasement.  Your position, stripped of its empty rhetoric, amounts to any country bordering Russia is in their "sphere of influence," and they can invade those countries any time they want to with impunity.

Pretty much. It is not right, it is not moral, and is not something we should be happy about, but Russia can pretty much do whatever it likes in the Caucuses and we can't do damn thing about it if they really want to.

If Russia had moved against the Ukraine or Poland the situation would be different. Both could be armed to the point where they could resist Russian aggression. But arguing that we could arm Georgia to that point is like arguing that the Soviet Union could have armed Grenada to the point where it could have resisted a US attack. Wasn't going to happen. The Soviets could have caused trouble elseware(ie. Berlin) but they concluded(correctly) that it was not worth it. Would you have argued that Soviets stand up to US aggression in Grenada in 1983? Of Course not because there was nothing they could reasonably do. Ditto for us.

Secondly, appeasement is a meaningless word, thrown around by people who just want to score political points or lack the capcity for critical thought. The problem with what Chamberlain did was not sitting down with his enemy per se, but sitting down with an enemy who was irrational and could not be reasoned with. He made the same mistake you are making, and McCain is making. He fought the last war.

The greatest experience of Chamberlain's life had been the first world war where one fourth of the youth of England had been slaughtered for no reason. Had Prime Minister Asquith proposed a conference of European Heads of State in Munich in August of 1914, 20 million lives would have been saved. What Chamberlain did not grasp was that what was the right policy in 1914 was the wrong policy in 1938, and people couldn't reason with Hitler.

Putin is not Hitler. He is doing nothing in Georgia that no other rational Russian leader would do. Any Russian leader is going to view Georgia as being within their sphere of influence, and is not going to take kindly to Georgia allying with Russia's enemies and arming itself. Putin has no desire to conquer or run Georgia. He simply wants Georgia to act like a small country on Russia's borders. The US giving them arms, as you have suggested they do, only forces Putin, or any other Russian leader to make an example of them.

Without a doubt, Austria-Hungary was the agressor against Serbia and started World War I. But to say that the Serbs had their own house in order is insane. They did a whole lot to provoke what they got. Yeah, they had legitimate nationalist motives for wanting to retake Bosnia, but it was still provocation. And Saashkivali is not some paragon of virtue. He rigged his last election, throws journalists in prison, and shut down all the independent TV stations in his country. In fact he is a mirror image of Putin domestically.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Dan the Roman on August 16, 2008, 02:36:26 AM
Quote
Quote
Quote


I suspect that the combination of Obama's feckless statements on the Russian invasion of Georgia, coupled with McCain's superlative statements on the same matter has resulted in McCain's closing the gap.

Perhaps, but those same reckless statements ensured that many people who actually follow the region will never vote for them. I know several people at the think tank where I worked switched their votes to Obama in response.

There was nothing superlative about McCain's remarks. It is pathetically easy to take a hardline stance on anything to score cheap political points provided you don't care about the consequences.

Sorry Dave, but you're sounding a lot like Neville Chamberlin.

It seems to me you work at a NO THINKING tank staffed by  apologists for aggression (and yes, I would expect the to support Obama who would never oppose aggression).

It is morally easy to oppose aggression, and it is immoral and stupid to apologize for it.

The consequences of appeasement should be obvious to anyone with and IQ above that of a rock.

What happened to you Dave, once you were a reasonable person, now you an advocate of appeasement.

That's really pathetic!

Kinda funny because I worked at Hudson, which is not known as a stronghold of leftist thought. It was mostly people who actually knew facts

A. About the situation, other than "OMG a country has Russian troops marching in, Hitler has come back from the dead, appeasement, Chamblerain, look how smart I am, I am making reference to historical events I don't understand"

B. About our military options and lack thereof

C. The position of every other country in the world which thought that the Georgians started it and would not have backed a President McCain in support of Georgia.

I'm not an advocate for appeasement. There is however a time and place to fight and a time and place not to. As a practical matter there is nothing the US can do about Georgia. It is within Russia's sphere of influence, and if Russia wants to occupy there is nothing we can do. Should we have threatened nuclear war with Russia when they moved into Hungary in 1956? Was Eisenhower engaging in appeasement when he stood back? If McCain had been President during the Cold War we might have stood against aggression all cases, but you and I would be dead right now because McCain would have blown the world to kingdom come over Hungary, or Czechoslovakia, or Afghanistan, or Cuba.

For a President I have something I call the Cuban Missile Crisis test. The question is if blank were President in 1962, would we be dead, red, or safe in bed. With McCain, he seems determined to prove to me and everyone else that we would end up dead. With Obama, he strikes me as the person who would talk to Khrushchev and realize that this crisis is not worth destroying the planet.

 Furthermore, McCain has no idea of how he would actually go about standing up to aggression. Notice he talks about how we have to stand up, but he has no suggestions on how we actually could have done anything. All he suggests is that kick Russia out of the G8. First of all that would never happen because Europe would not go along. Second, if McCain succeeded, all he would do is destroy the G8, which is influential because it includes the world's major powers.

CarlHayden, not to mean any offense, but how would you have "stood up against aggression" in this case? We have heard a lot of posters urging us to do so, and a lot of attacks on those of us who feel this is domestic posturing as appeasers, so what actions would you recommend us taking.

And if we are not actually able to take any effective action, wouldn't John McCain's ultimatum to Russia end up humiliating the United States if McCain talked a big game but then had to back down because he was incapable of doing anything?

First, yes you are an advocate of appeasement.  Your position, stripped of its empty rhetoric, amounts to any country bordering Russia is in their "sphere of influence," and they can invade those countries any time they want to with impunity.

Second, you engage in a classic logical fallacy of either the United States appeasing the Russians, or nuclear war.  However, thoughtful people recognize a range of alternatives including providing would be victims of Russian aggression the means of defending themselves.  Now I realize this thought never occured to YOU.  I have repeatedly advocated this method.

Third, people (well not in your case) not nations "think."  Further, while I understand that you may believe that the Georgians invaded Russia, the fact is that the Russians invaded Georgia.  Oh, and you blanket statement that all nations "think" as you do is both fallacious and false.  A number of eastern european heads of state stood with Georgia in a public statement a few days ago which you seemed to have missed.


Did any of those Eastern European nations actually do anything? No. And quite frankly, the fact that we were arming Georgia is a major reason why Putin felt the need to punish them. There is no amount of armerments short of nukes that we could give to Georgia that would stop Russia from doing what it likes with them if it really wanted to. If Georgia had had 500 tanks instead of 200 it would might have let them hang on for another day against Russia's 6000. I have thought through this suggestion, and I have taken into account matters of scale, something that none of its proponents have done.

As to your point that

Quote
First, yes you are an advocate of appeasement.  Your position, stripped of its empty rhetoric, amounts to any country bordering Russia is in their "sphere of influence," and they can invade those countries any time they want to with impunity.

Pretty much. It is not right, it is not moral, and is not something we should be happy about, but Russia can pretty much do whatever it likes in the Caucuses and we can't do damn thing about it if they really want to.

If Russia had moved against the Ukraine or Poland the situation would be different. Both could be armed to the point where they could resist Russian aggression. But arguing that we could arm Georgia to that point is like arguing that the Soviet Union could have armed Grenada to the point where it could have resisted a US attack. Wasn't going to happen. The Soviets could have caused trouble elseware(ie. Berlin) but they concluded(correctly) that it was not worth it. Would you have argued that Soviets stand up to US aggression in Grenada in 1983? Of Course not because there was nothing they could reasonably do. Ditto for us.

Secondly, appeasement is a meaningless word, thrown around by people who just want to score political points or lack the capcity for critical thought. The problem with what Chamberlain did was not sitting down with his enemy per se, but sitting down with an enemy who was irrational and could not be reasoned with. He made the same mistake you are making, and McCain is making. He fought the last war.

The greatest experience of Chamberlain's life had been the first world war where one fourth of the youth of England had been slaughtered for no reason. Had Prime Minister Asquith proposed a conference of European Heads of State in Munich in August of 1914, 20 million lives would have been saved. What Chamberlain did not grasp was that what was the right policy in 1914 was the wrong policy in 1938, and people couldn't reason with Hitler.

Putin is not Hitler. He is doing nothing in Georgia that no other rational Russian leader would do. Any Russian leader is going to view Georgia as being within their sphere of influence, and is not going to take kindly to Georgia allying with Russia's enemies and arming itself. Putin has no desire to conquer or run Georgia. He simply wants Georgia to act like a small country on Russia's borders. The US giving them arms, as you have suggested they do, only forces Putin, or any other Russian leader to make an example of them.

Without a doubt, Austria-Hungary was the agressor against Serbia and started World War I. But to say that the Serbs had their own house in order is insane. They did a whole lot to provoke what they got. Yeah, they had legitimate nationalist motives for wanting to retake Bosnia, but it was still provocation. And Saashkivali is not some paragon of virtue. He rigged his last election, throws journalists in prison, and shut down all the independent TV stations in his country. In fact he is a mirror image of Putin domestically.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on August 16, 2008, 12:48:12 PM
What's the matter with Gallup today ? No Poll ? :(


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on August 16, 2008, 01:49:48 PM








 
[/quote]

First, yes you are an advocate of appeasement.  Your position, stripped of its empty rhetoric, amounts to any country bordering Russia is in their "sphere of influence," and they can invade those countries any time they want to with impunity.

Second, you engage in a classic logical fallacy of either the United States appeasing the Russians, or nuclear war.  However, thoughtful people recognize a range of alternatives including providing would be victims of Russian aggression the means of defending themselves.  Now I realize this thought never occured to YOU.  I have repeatedly advocated this method.

Third, people (well not in your case) not nations "think."  Further, while I understand that you may believe that the Georgians invaded Russia, the fact is that the Russians invaded Georgia.  Oh, and you blanket statement that all nations "think" as you do is both fallacious and false.  A number of eastern european heads of state stood with Georgia in a public statement a few days ago which you seemed to have missed.


[/quote]
[/quote]
Did any of those Eastern European nations actually do anything? No. And quite frankly, the fact that we were arming Georgia is a major reason why Putin felt the need to punish them. There is no amount of armerments short of nukes that we could give to Georgia that would stop Russia from doing what it likes with them if it really wanted to. If Georgia had had 500 tanks instead of 200 it would might have let them hang on for another day against Russia's 6000. I have thought through this suggestion, and I have taken into account matters of scale, something that none of its proponents have done.

As to your point that

Quote
First, yes you are an advocate of appeasement.  Your position, stripped of its empty rhetoric, amounts to any country bordering Russia is in their "sphere of influence," and they can invade those countries any time they want to with impunity.

Pretty much. It is not right, it is not moral, and is not something we should be happy about, but Russia can pretty much do whatever it likes in the Caucuses and we can't do damn thing about it if they really want to.

If Russia had moved against the Ukraine or Poland the situation would be different. Both could be armed to the point where they could resist Russian aggression. But arguing that we could arm Georgia to that point is like arguing that the Soviet Union could have armed Grenada to the point where it could have resisted a US attack. Wasn't going to happen. The Soviets could have caused trouble elseware(ie. Berlin) but they concluded(correctly) that it was not worth it. Would you have argued that Soviets stand up to US aggression in Grenada in 1983? Of Course not because there was nothing they could reasonably do. Ditto for us.

Secondly, appeasement is a meaningless word, thrown around by people who just want to score political points or lack the capcity for critical thought. The problem with what Chamberlain did was not sitting down with his enemy per se, but sitting down with an enemy who was irrational and could not be reasoned with. He made the same mistake you are making, and McCain is making. He fought the last war.

The greatest experience of Chamberlain's life had been the first world war where one fourth of the youth of England had been slaughtered for no reason. Had Prime Minister Asquith proposed a conference of European Heads of State in Munich in August of 1914, 20 million lives would have been saved. What Chamberlain did not grasp was that what was the right policy in 1914 was the wrong policy in 1938, and people couldn't reason with Hitler.

Putin is not Hitler. He is doing nothing in Georgia that no other rational Russian leader would do. Any Russian leader is going to view Georgia as being within their sphere of influence, and is not going to take kindly to Georgia allying with Russia's enemies and arming itself. Putin has no desire to conquer or run Georgia. He simply wants Georgia to act like a small country on Russia's borders. The US giving them arms, as you have suggested they do, only forces Putin, or any other Russian leader to make an example of them.

Without a doubt, Austria-Hungary was the agressor against Serbia and started World War I. But to say that the Serbs had their own house in order is insane. They did a whole lot to provoke what they got. Yeah, they had legitimate nationalist motives for wanting to retake Bosnia, but it was still provocation. And Saashkivali is not some paragon of virtue. He rigged his last election, throws journalists in prison, and shut down all the independent TV stations in his country. In fact he is a mirror image of Putin domestically.
[/quote]

First, did the nations which I (and now you, cited) oh yes, you previously said the did not exist, have the missles to provide to Georgia?  Since they did not, could that explain why they acted as they did?  Or it that concept to difficult for you, an advocate of appeasement? 

Oh, and thanks for finally admitting you are an advocate of appeasement.

Now, apparently you are grossly ignorant of Russian combat capabilities, and have a mistaken notion that short of nuclear war they are unstoppable.  The truth is that with the antitank and antiaircraft missles I have repeatedly cited, the Russians could not have sucessfully conquired Georgia, which is what they are doing right now!

Finally, your defense of Putin is not unexpected!  Let me hear your defense of the bank robbery by the Russians covered by The Sun as another example of what you approve and defend.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Dan the Roman on August 16, 2008, 02:52:23 PM

Quote
First, did the nations which I (and now you, cited) oh yes, you previously said the did not exist, have the missles to provide to Georgia?  Since they did not, could that explain why they acted as they did?  Or it that concept to difficult for you, an advocate of appeasement? 

Oh, and thanks for finally admitting you are an advocate of appeasement.

Now, apparently you are grossly ignorant of Russian combat capabilities, and have a mistaken notion that short of nuclear war they are unstoppable.  The truth is that with the antitank and antiaircraft missles I have repeatedly cited, the Russians could not have sucessfully conquired Georgia, which is what they are doing right now!

Finally, your defense of Putin is not unexpected!  Let me hear your defense of the bank robbery by the Russians covered by The Sun as another example of what you approve and defend.

I am advocate of treating every situation on its own merits, which is something so-called Hawks are incapable of. If suggesting that it might have made sense for the Kaiser, Asquith, Franz Josef and the Czar to sit down in 1914 so the senseless slaughter of millions, and the holocaust and other slaughters that emanated from that one did not happen, is appeasement then appeasement in certain cases is the only policy a rational human being could support. Why, because you presume that every fight has an aggressor to be resisted, which is far from true.

Second, no amount of anti-tank missiles is going to allow 18,000 Georgians stand up against 200,000 Russians. The numbers are far too skewed. In fact, the 18,000 Georgians are armed with top of the line Israeli weaponry, and that was how they did last as long as they did. The Russians are not unstoppable, they are unstoppable by Georgia alone, just as in 1940, the Germans were unstoppable by Denmark. And really, the net result of allowing them to slow down tank forces would simply have been increased Russian airstrikes. Finally the Georgians were at a disadvantage because the local people supported Russia and hitting them from the rear.

As to my defense of Putin if you can call it that, you Carlhayden, if you were Russian, would be the strongest advocate of conquering the whole of Georgia. Why? because it is the natural position of any Russian leader not to tolerate small countries on your borders aligning with your enemies. We joined World War I because Germany was playing games in Mexico. Was our invasion of Mexico in 1916 an aggression to be resisted. Rather than thinking seriously about any of this you gives us the same chicken hawk platitudes about "appeasement" or "resisting aggression" that we get from people who know nothing about the conflict or war in general.

In regards to your herring about Russian troops, I will no more defend the behavior of drunken Russian conscripts in Georgia than I will defend the raping and killings carried out by professional American trained Georgian troops in South Ossetia. Bad stuff happens in war, especially when ethnic hatred is involved.

Please watch this video to get an idea of how unclear it is who the aggressors are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on August 16, 2008, 04:51:34 PM

Quote
First, did the nations which I (and now you, cited) oh yes, you previously said the did not exist, have the missles to provide to Georgia?  Since they did not, could that explain why they acted as they did?  Or it that concept to difficult for you, an advocate of appeasement? 

Oh, and thanks for finally admitting you are an advocate of appeasement.

Now, apparently you are grossly ignorant of Russian combat capabilities, and have a mistaken notion that short of nuclear war they are unstoppable.  The truth is that with the antitank and antiaircraft missles I have repeatedly cited, the Russians could not have sucessfully conquired Georgia, which is what they are doing right now!

Finally, your defense of Putin is not unexpected!  Let me hear your defense of the bank robbery by the Russians covered by The Sun as another example of what you approve and defend.

I am advocate of treating every situation on its own merits, which is something so-called Hawks are incapable of. If suggesting that it might have made sense for the Kaiser, Asquith, Franz Josef and the Czar to sit down in 1914 so the senseless slaughter of millions, and the holocaust and other slaughters that emanated from that one did not happen, is appeasement then appeasement in certain cases is the only policy a rational human being could support. Why, because you presume that every fight has an aggressor to be resisted, which is far from true.

Second, no amount of anti-tank missiles is going to allow 18,000 Georgians stand up against 200,000 Russians. The numbers are far too skewed. In fact, the 18,000 Georgians are armed with top of the line Israeli weaponry, and that was how they did last as long as they did. The Russians are not unstoppable, they are unstoppable by Georgia alone, just as in 1940, the Germans were unstoppable by Denmark. And really, the net result of allowing them to slow down tank forces would simply have been increased Russian airstrikes. Finally the Georgians were at a disadvantage because the local people supported Russia and hitting them from the rear.

As to my defense of Putin if you can call it that, you Carlhayden, if you were Russian, would be the strongest advocate of conquering the whole of Georgia. Why? because it is the natural position of any Russian leader not to tolerate small countries on your borders aligning with your enemies. We joined World War I because Germany was playing games in Mexico. Was our invasion of Mexico in 1916 an aggression to be resisted. Rather than thinking seriously about any of this you gives us the same chicken hawk platitudes about "appeasement" or "resisting aggression" that we get from people who know nothing about the conflict or war in general.

In regards to your herring about Russian troops, I will no more defend the behavior of drunken Russian conscripts in Georgia than I will defend the raping and killings carried out by professional American trained Georgian troops in South Ossetia. Bad stuff happens in war, especially when ethnic hatred is involved.

Please watch this video to get an idea of how unclear it is who the aggressors are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ


First, you have the same solution to all situations of agression, i.e. appeasement.

Second, you invariably look hard to find any flaw in the victims of agression, even if manufactured propaganda, to find an excuse to sanction the agression. 

Third, since you are a self-proclaimed expert in military capabilities, perhaps you will be so kind as to provide a brief explanation of your military service.

Fourth, you engage in another liberal stupdity when you proclaim that "of you were a Russain (you) would be the strongest advocate of conquering the whole of Georgia."  Do you get to this conclusion from "channeling" a la Edwards, or simply make it up, as seems to be the case with so much you post.

Fifth, did you fail to note that in addition to antitank missles, I also specified SAMs, or did you decide to omit that when asserting that stopping the Russian tanks would allow you to assert they would simply use aircraft.  Oh, and perhaps you haven't heard, but, they are using aircraft for strikes, even with the tanks.

Sixth, again you fail to comprehend the armament possessed by the Georgians.  Excellent small arms does not equate high quality antitank and SAMs.




Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on August 16, 2008, 04:57:43 PM
Oh, and to correct the false claims of the appeasement advocates here, I suggest reading the following:

The Pain Game
A military response to Russia's aggression?
by Stuart Koehl
08/14/2008 8:15:00 PM

Conventional wisdom has rapidly hardened around the proposition that there is no practical military response to the Russian invasion of Georgia. In fact, if the Georgians were inclined to fight, there is quite a lot they could do militarily, and in a way that would not directly involve U.S. or NATO forces. To understand how this military option would work, some background is required.

Most people have been grossly exaggerating Russian military strength and prowess in this exercise, obviously one long in the planning, and actually involving relatively small forces. By all accounts, the Russian "58th Army" has invaded Georgian territory with about 500 tanks and an equal number of infantry fighting vehicles--the equivalent of roughly two armored divisions. That's pretty small beer, really, but adequate to handle a smaller Georgian army largely dispersed to deal with counter-guerrilla operations.

A close examination of video and photos of the Russian force also reveals top of the line equipment--late model T-80 and T-90 main battle tanks, and BMP-2 IFVs. Now, the Caucasus Military District is something of a backwater, home of Category II and Category III divisions, most of which are kept below strength and equipped with older systems, such as the T-72 MBT. On the other hand, the Category I divisions are kept close to Moscow and the western military districts, because that is where the main threat is perceived, and also because that's much better terrain for tank warfare. Obviously, the Russian army carefully transferred the forces for  this operation from central Russia all the way to the Caucasus--in secret--and also accompanied the move with a comprehensive maskirovka intended to put us at our ease (e.g., Putin did go to the Olympic opening ceremonies, after all).

From this we can infer what most experts already know--that the Russian army, though still numerically large, has relatively few competent, deployable formations--there are the airborne divisions and the air assault brigades, and a few tank and motor-rifle divisions, but not much else. Similarly, the Russian air force doesn't have very many fully operational aircraft or deep reserves of fuel, spare parts and munitions. This invasion has probably eaten deeply into Russian operations and maintenance funding, to say nothing of its war reserve stockpiles of ordnance and equipment. Russia must have bet on a short and fairly bloodless war, because it cannot afford--militarily or politically--a protracted slog. Not only doesn't it have the equipment to do so, but it doesn't have enough highly trained troops to sustain heavy casualties. The Russian military consists of a small, diamond-hard point on the end of a wooden stick. If the point shatters or wears down, you are left fighting the stick. (It should be noted that Ralph Peters, writing in the New York Post, has been scathing in his assessment of the Russian army's performance in Georgia, so by Western standards even the best of the Russian army would be considered rather mediocre).

The question is how to wear it down. Georgia is a mountainous country, with few good roads and many choke points. A dismounted guerrilla or light infantry force can hold up a road-bound armored force and inflict disproportionate casualties, if properly equipped and led. Unfortunately, the Georgian Army was neither, in this particular instance. Rather, it was trained and equipped the fight the war it had--an insurgency by separatist guerrillas, requiring mostly infantry and small arms. Confronted by tanks and close support aircraft and helicopters, the Georgian forces had little choice but to run.


 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Dan the Roman on August 16, 2008, 05:09:15 PM

Quote
First, did the nations which I (and now you, cited) oh yes, you previously said the did not exist, have the missles to provide to Georgia?  Since they did not, could that explain why they acted as they did?  Or it that concept to difficult for you, an advocate of appeasement? 

Oh, and thanks for finally admitting you are an advocate of appeasement.

Now, apparently you are grossly ignorant of Russian combat capabilities, and have a mistaken notion that short of nuclear war they are unstoppable.  The truth is that with the antitank and antiaircraft missles I have repeatedly cited, the Russians could not have sucessfully conquired Georgia, which is what they are doing right now!

Finally, your defense of Putin is not unexpected!  Let me hear your defense of the bank robbery by the Russians covered by The Sun as another example of what you approve and defend.

I am advocate of treating every situation on its own merits, which is something so-called Hawks are incapable of. If suggesting that it might have made sense for the Kaiser, Asquith, Franz Josef and the Czar to sit down in 1914 so the senseless slaughter of millions, and the holocaust and other slaughters that emanated from that one did not happen, is appeasement then appeasement in certain cases is the only policy a rational human being could support. Why, because you presume that every fight has an aggressor to be resisted, which is far from true.

Second, no amount of anti-tank missiles is going to allow 18,000 Georgians stand up against 200,000 Russians. The numbers are far too skewed. In fact, the 18,000 Georgians are armed with top of the line Israeli weaponry, and that was how they did last as long as they did. The Russians are not unstoppable, they are unstoppable by Georgia alone, just as in 1940, the Germans were unstoppable by Denmark. And really, the net result of allowing them to slow down tank forces would simply have been increased Russian airstrikes. Finally the Georgians were at a disadvantage because the local people supported Russia and hitting them from the rear.

As to my defense of Putin if you can call it that, you Carlhayden, if you were Russian, would be the strongest advocate of conquering the whole of Georgia. Why? because it is the natural position of any Russian leader not to tolerate small countries on your borders aligning with your enemies. We joined World War I because Germany was playing games in Mexico. Was our invasion of Mexico in 1916 an aggression to be resisted. Rather than thinking seriously about any of this you gives us the same chicken hawk platitudes about "appeasement" or "resisting aggression" that we get from people who know nothing about the conflict or war in general.

In regards to your herring about Russian troops, I will no more defend the behavior of drunken Russian conscripts in Georgia than I will defend the raping and killings carried out by professional American trained Georgian troops in South Ossetia. Bad stuff happens in war, especially when ethnic hatred is involved.

Please watch this video to get an idea of how unclear it is who the aggressors are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ


First, you have the same solution to all situations of agression, i.e. appeasement.

Second, you invariably look hard to find any flaw in the victims of agression, even if manufactured propaganda, to find an excuse to sanction the agression. 

Third, since you are a self-proclaimed expert in military capabilities, perhaps you will be so kind as to provide a brief explanation of your military service.

Fourth, you engage in another liberal stupdity when you proclaim that "of you were a Russain (you) would be the strongest advocate of conquering the whole of Georgia."  Do you get to this conclusion from "channeling" a la Edwards, or simply make it up, as seems to be the case with so much you post.

Fifth, did you fail to note that in addition to antitank missles, I also specified SAMs, or did you decide to omit that when asserting that stopping the Russian tanks would allow you to assert they would simply use aircraft.  Oh, and perhaps you haven't heard, but, they are using aircraft for strikes, even with the tanks.

Sixth, again you fail to comprehend the armament possessed by the Georgians.  Excellent small arms does not equate high quality antitank and SAMs.




First of all I have the same approach to every situation which is to look at the facts. You seem to have the same approach to every situation which is to blow stuff up regardless of justification. Mao, Stalin, and Hitler all exist because people in democratic states do exactly what you suggest. You have not addressed any example or point I raised. Would it have been a bad thing for people to have sat down in August of 1914? Was it a bad thing for Kennedy to talk with Kruschev in 1962 rather than simply invading Cuba?

Second, you have failed to rebut any facts or evidence. Perhaps all of the witnesses are faked? The South Ossetians all shot themselves perhaps? How is any of this evidence manufactured? There is a twelve year old girl on Fox News explaining how  Georgians burned her neighbors alive in a church, what evidence do you have other than assertion. Pherhaps the EU which says that the last Georgian elections were rigged. Perhaps the US State Department, which criticized our good friend the Georgian President for shutting down the independent press in Georgia and throwing journalists in jail? Is all of this propaganda.

Third, if it was so easy to arm small countries with hi-tech weapons and they could hold off anything, why is it that Taiwan needs US support. Wouldn't all Taiwan need be few anti-tank weapons and some SAMS and the Chinese military is neutralized. No, because there are issues of scale involved, and tiny countries  of 4 million people do not beat countries of 150 million that have vastly more resources. These magical weapons do not change that.

Finally I love how you call me a Liberal. I was until last month a registered Republican and vote for George Bush in 2004. I quit precisely because the party has been taken over by people with weak egos who are incapable of critical thought beyond generalities and like to talk to each other about how smart they are. That said I would still vote for Bush again right now over McCain any day of the week, possibly over Obama.

That said, I have heard no response to how this is the natural interest of any Russian government, and if Kasparov or Nemstov were running Russia and it was a beautiful liberal democracy there position would be exactly the same on South Ossetia, and was the same back in the 1990s when  Yeltsin ran stuff. Major powers do not let other powers set up puppet states on your borders. We would never have tolerated a Communist Mexico, no more than we were willing to tolerate a Pro-German Mexico in 1916.

Christ you are less rational on this than the folks on Freerepublic, who at least realize that if you poke a Bear in the eye with a red-hot poker consistently you will get burned.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Dan the Roman on August 16, 2008, 05:16:40 PM
I've read the weekly standard piece and it is as ridiculous as your claims. Giving the Georgians a few anti-tank weapons won't make a large difference, and Mr. Stuart Koehl also assumes the Russians would sit back and let them rearm. Notice that the Russian troops in Gori have been demolishing all of Georgia's military bases in the north of the country. Russia is clearly not going to give them a chance to do this.

Georgia is also a lot different than Afghanistan where the Russians were hated. The Russian troops are wanted in South Ossetia and Akhbazia, and if anyone would wind up facing a guerrilla war it would be the Georgians. They can't fade into the countryside that easily.

Furthermore, at the end of the day we won''t do it because it raises the prospects of the Russians arming Iran, which is not something we want and is quite frankly far more important to us. Koehl makes the same mistake neocons always make which is assuming the US can win everywhere at once, and therefore they don't differentiate between what is important(Iran, Baltics) and what is only important if the situation deteriorates(Georgia). If the cost of aiding Georgia is that Georgia is completely occupied/ or destroyed(the most likely outcome of Koehl's plan) and that Iran gets nukes is it really worth it to help a questionable regime recover territories where they are not wanted, and where they committed genocide last time they ran them(1992-1993).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on August 16, 2008, 06:26:28 PM
Well, facts and logic mean nothing to you.

Your answer to all situations is appeasement.

According to you, opposing aggressors will only make them more aggressive.

According to you, aggressors will always win.

Yes, your adoration of Putin and his thugs is clear.

Oh, and yes, or course, lets see, the Georgians were bayoneting babies (um, that was the British propaganda in WWI).  You will believe anything bad about the Georgians, and dismiss any atrocity by the Russians.

You have indicated absolutely no credentials other than being an unthinking proponent of appeasement.

You have offered no facts, just your misguided opinions.

I expect next you will produce Russian propaganda alledging the Georgians invaded Moscow.

Have you no shame?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 16, 2008, 07:50:22 PM
What's the matter with Gallup today ? No Poll ? :(

Yes, it came in moments ago

Saturday, August 16, 2008

Obama - 45% (+1)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Obama and McCain have been closely matched in each the past four individual days of Gallup Poll Daily tracking, including in the Aug. 13-15 polling represented in today's three-day rolling average. Thus there appears to be a degree of stability to voter preferences in recent days.

 which is better than yesterday


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Dan the Roman on August 16, 2008, 11:40:14 PM
Well, facts and logic mean nothing to you.

Your answer to all situations is appeasement.

According to you, opposing aggressors will only make them more aggressive.

According to you, aggressors will always win.

Yes, your adoration of Putin and his thugs is clear.

Oh, and yes, or course, lets see, the Georgians were bayoneting babies (um, that was the British propaganda in WWI).  You will believe anything bad about the Georgians, and dismiss any atrocity by the Russians.

You have indicated absolutely no credentials other than being an unthinking proponent of appeasement.

You have offered no facts, just your misguided opinions.

I expect next you will produce Russian propaganda alledging the Georgians invaded Moscow.

Have you no shame?


Have you no brain. No reading comprehension? No desire to engage in reasonable discussion? No facts with which to respond, hence the invective? I think this conversation is through. We have throughly concluded that you have no knowledge, no comprehension and no ability to reason on this matter. I feel like I am talking to a wall. In fact I probably am, that or an online bot.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on August 17, 2008, 12:03:10 AM
You are the most incredibly stupid and ignorant person I have ever encountered on this forum.

You have NO knowledge whatsoever of the facts of the situation, no comprehension of the forces involved, nor any reading comprehension.

I have cited numerous sources, you have cited Utube.

The failure of the west to oppose Russian aggression will open an entirely more dangerous world.

The Chinese now see Russia as a threat which they may have to deal with themselves.

Yes, I know you always apologize for the Russians and always advocate appeasement as a response to their aggression.

Fortunately, the Chinese have a different solution.

So, when war comes, people like you invited it!



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on August 17, 2008, 12:16:32 AM
Here's an AP story (yes, I know liberalrepublican only believes UTube and Russian propaganda)
-----
Aug 16, 10:48 PM (ET)
By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA

IGOETI, Georgia (AP) - Russian forces built ramparts around tanks and posted sentries on a hill in central Georgia on Saturday, digging in despite Western pressure for Moscow to withdraw its forces under a cease-fire deal signed by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.

The United States and France said it appeared Russia was defying the truce already. Russian troops still controlled two Georgian cities and the key east-west highway between them Saturday, cities well outside the breakaway provinces where earlier fighting was focused.

"From my point of view - and I am in contact with the French - the Russians are perhaps already not honoring their word," U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said.

Russia's foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, said Medvedev had signed the cease-fire deal and ordered its implementation, but would not withdraw troops until Moscow is satisfied that security measures allowed under the agreement are effective. He said Russia would strengthen its peacekeeping contingent in South Ossetia, the separatist Georgian region at the center of more than a week of warfare that sharply soured relations between Moscow and the West.
 
Asked how much time it would take, he responded: "As much as is needed."

President Bush warned Russia Saturday that it cannot lay claim to the two separatist regions in U.S.-backed Georgia even though their sympathies lie with Moscow. "There is no room for debate on this matter," the president, with Rice, told reporters at his Texas ranch.

Later Saturday, Georgia's Foreign Ministry accused Russian army units and separatist fighters in one of the regions, Abkhazia, of taking over 13 villages and the Inguri hydropower plant, shifting the border of the Black sea province toward the Inguri River.

Abkhaz officials could not immediately be reached for comment on the late-night claim, and there was no information on whether the seizure involved violence.

The villages and plant are in a U.N.-established buffer zone on Abkhazia's edge, and it appeared that the separatists were bolstering their control over the zone after Russian-backed fighters forced Georgians out of their last stronghold in Abkhazia earlier this week.
 
The tense peace pact in Georgia, a U.S. ally that has emerged as a proxy for conflict between an emboldened Russia and the West, calls for both Russian and Georgian forces to pull back to positions they held before fighting erupted Aug. 7 in the other breakaway province, South Ossetia in central Georgia.

But freshly dug positions of Russian armor in the town of Igoeti, about 30 miles west of the capital Tbilisi, showed that Russia was observing the truce at the pace and scope of its choosing.

Rice noted that the text of the cease-fire agreement, negotiated by French President Nicolas Sarkozy, the current leader of the European Union, outlined a very limited mandate only for Russian peacekeepers who were in Georgia at the time hostilities escalated. She said the agreement specifies that these initial peacekeepers can have limited patrols in a prescribed area within the conflict zone and would not be allowed to go into Georgian urban areas or tie up a cross-country highway.

According to Rice, Medvedev told Sarkozy that the minute the Georgian president signed the cease-fire agreement, Russian forces would begin to withdraw.

Sarkozy said Saturday that the truce explicitly bars Russian troops from Gori or "any major urban area" of Georgia.

Earlier Saturday, Russian forces dug shallow foxholes in the middle of Igoeti and parked tanks, one flying a Russian flag, along the road. In the afternoon, they withdrew from those positions to the town's western outskirts. There, they set up defensive positions with tank cannons pointed back toward Georgian-held territory, where police and soldiers milled about, awaiting Russia's next move.

West of Igoeti, Russian troops were deployed in large numbers in and around the strategic city of Gori.  Military vehicles on the side of the road were camouflaged with branches; a couple of soldiers slept on stretchers in the shade of the hulking machines.

Russian troops effectively control the main artery running through the western half of Georgia, because they surround the strategic central city of Gori and the city and air base of Senaki in the west. Both cities sit on the main east-west highway that slices through two Georgian mountain ranges.

Controlling Senaki, which sits on a key intersection, also means the Russians control access to the Black Sea port city of Poti and the road north to Abkhazia. AP reporters have seen Russian troops there for days but noted a growing contingent Saturday and artillery guns and tanks pointed out from the city, which they appear to be using as a base for their sorties elsewhere in western Georgia.

An Associated Press Television News team saw Russian soldiers pulling out of the Black Sea port of Poti Saturday after sinking Georgian naval vessels and ransacking the port. A picture of Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili in the looted office of the Navy and Coast Guard had been vandalized, with the face scratched out.
 
"They have robbed the military base and taken almost everything, and they have burned or sunk the stuff they could not carry," port worker Zurab Simonia said.

Georgia, meanwhile, claimed that Russian forces blew up a railroad bridge Saturday. Russia denied it.

The rival claims underscored the fragility of the cease-fire. Lavrov said the deal Saakashvili signed Friday differed from the one with Medvedev's signature, with Saakashvili's version lacking an introductory preamble. While that difference may appear to be a technicality, it could be one either side could cite if it wants to abandon the deal.
 
The Russian army quickly overwhelmed its neighbor's forces and drove deep into Georgia, raising fears that it was planning on a long-term occupation.

Even if Russian forces do withdraw from the rest of Georgia, Moscow appears likely to maintain strong control over South Ossetia. Lavrov said Thursday that Georgia can "forget about" South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which broke from Georgian government control in early 1990s wars, and their future status is shaping up as a potentially explosive source of tension.

In Texas, Bush said, "A major issue is Russia's contention that the regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia may not be a part of Georgia's future. These regions are a part of Georgia and the international community has repeatedly made clear that they will remain so."

Russia views the growing relationship between the U.S. and Georgia as an encroachment on its traditional sphere of influence and a threat to its clout. The fighting came amid U.S. efforts to close a deal on a missile shield based in former Soviet satellites in Europe, an issue already damaging ties with its former Cold War foe.
---
Associated Press writers Mansur Mirovalev in Gori and Tskhinvali, Jim Heintz, Angela Charlton and Steve Gutterman in Moscow, and Deb Riechmann in Crawford, Texas contributed to this report.





Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Dan the Roman on August 17, 2008, 12:45:25 AM
You are the most incredibly stupid and ignorant person I have ever encountered on this forum.

You have NO knowledge whatsoever of the facts of the situation, no comprehension of the forces involved, nor any reading comprehension.

I have cited numerous sources, you have cited Utube.

The failure of the west to oppose Russian aggression will open an entirely more dangerous world.

The Chinese now see Russia as a threat which they may have to deal with themselves.

Yes, I know you always apologize for the Russians and always advocate appeasement as a response to their aggression.

Fortunately, the Chinese have a different solution.

So, when war comes, people like you invited it!



Where is your evidence for any of you claims. What evidence have you that the Chinese consider Russia a threat? I have seen no evidence of it. In fact, Russia is China's largest arms supplier, and has recently been selling them SSBNs which is not something you would do if you had designs on them.

I linked to a fox news segment, I am perfectly happy to dig up an AP article if you want  on South Ossetia. You presented nothing but an AP article showing yes, that the Russians are digging in and pressing their advantage. I have never contended that the Russians do not have negative intentions to the present Georgian state. I have argued that there is little we can do militarily that will not harm our interests else ware, and I do not see what in this article contradicts that.

Is Russia acting like a hegemony in its backyard, yes? Should we take steps to secure the Baltic States and the Ukraine? Absolutely? Is this a sign that Russia is somehow gone crazy or that Putin is bent on world domination? Not in the least. We need a proportionate response, which involves both a carrot, willingness to take into account Russia's legitimate strategic an regional concerns, something we did not do over Kosovo, or our decision to place an ostensibly anti-Iranian missile defense shield in Estonia, whilst simultaneously making it clear that encroachments are not acceptable.

In the end we do not want Russia as an enemy, because regardless of your confidence in the Chinese, they have been cooperating far more of late with Putin on issues ranging from Iran to Zimbabwe, than they have with us. I am not sure they want to take a stand on the principle of the inviolability of breakaway provinces given their own situation with Taiwan, since they want to reserve the option to deal with Taiwan in the same manner that Russia has dealt with Georgia, if Taiwan acts in the same manner.




Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: HardRCafé on August 17, 2008, 02:55:38 AM
You are the most incredibly stupid and ignorant person I have ever encountered on this forum.

This must be the first time you've ever read other people's posts, then.  There are at least fifty people who can't even type a complete sentence.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 17, 2008, 09:56:54 AM
What's with the raging discussion between Carl and Dan anyways? I'm minded to rename the thread :P

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on August 17, 2008, 10:39:50 AM
You are the most incredibly stupid and ignorant person I have ever encountered on this forum.

You have NO knowledge whatsoever of the facts of the situation, no comprehension of the forces involved, nor any reading comprehension.

I have cited numerous sources, you have cited Utube.

The failure of the west to oppose Russian aggression will open an entirely more dangerous world.

The Chinese now see Russia as a threat which they may have to deal with themselves.

Yes, I know you always apologize for the Russians and always advocate appeasement as a response to their aggression.

Fortunately, the Chinese have a different solution.

So, when war comes, people like you invited it!



Where is your evidence for any of you claims. What evidence have you that the Chinese consider Russia a threat? I have seen no evidence of it. In fact, Russia is China's largest arms supplier, and has recently been selling them SSBNs which is not something you would do if you had designs on them.

I linked to a fox news segment, I am perfectly happy to dig up an AP article if you want  on South Ossetia. You presented nothing but an AP article showing yes, that the Russians are digging in and pressing their advantage. I have never contended that the Russians do not have negative intentions to the present Georgian state. I have argued that there is little we can do militarily that will not harm our interests else ware, and I do not see what in this article contradicts that.

Is Russia acting like a hegemony in its backyard, yes? Should we take steps to secure the Baltic States and the Ukraine? Absolutely? Is this a sign that Russia is somehow gone crazy or that Putin is bent on world domination? Not in the least. We need a proportionate response, which involves both a carrot, willingness to take into account Russia's legitimate strategic an regional concerns, something we did not do over Kosovo, or our decision to place an ostensibly anti-Iranian missile defense shield in Estonia, whilst simultaneously making it clear that encroachments are not acceptable.

In the end we do not want Russia as an enemy, because regardless of your confidence in the Chinese, they have been cooperating far more of late with Putin on issues ranging from Iran to Zimbabwe, than they have with us. I am not sure they want to take a stand on the principle of the inviolability of breakaway provinces given their own situation with Taiwan, since they want to reserve the option to deal with Taiwan in the same manner that Russia has dealt with Georgia, if Taiwan acts in the same manner.




First, the Russians remember sucessfully dealing with the chinese in the 1969-1970 Amur border dispute and assume that they can sucessfully deal with them today, so they sell their weaponry to the Chinese for profit.  They are extremely foolish in in this process.  The evidence of Chinese hostitlity to the Russians will soon manifest itself, but you will deny it when it happens.

Second, if you had understood the AP article, you would have noted that the Russians are clearly violating the provisions of the truce.  But that's ok with you, which explains your ignoring that data.

Third, that you want to reward the Russians for their aggression is not suprising.  Just how many  "carrots" do you want to give them?

Fourth, its nice that you now say that we should "take steps to secure the Baltic states and the Ukraine."  I must be dubious about this statement as, under your previous definition, they are in the Russian sphere, where you have stated we must give Russia carte blanche to act however they feel like acting.  Oh, and do those steps consist of piling up more carrots to reward the Russians for more aggression (you were more than a little bit vague).

Fifth, its interesting to see you finally get around to the Kosovo argument.  Yes, for once the Russians do have a point, the United States acted illegally, immorally and unwisely in taking territority awary from the Serbs to create a naroterrorist, islamofascist state.  However, the wrongful act of the United States in Kosovo does NOT legimitmize the Russian imperialism in Georgia.



Title: Re: Angry Rants Thread (and Gallup Tracking Poll [Obama vs McCain])
Post by: Verily on August 17, 2008, 10:41:07 AM
What's with the raging discussion between Carl and Dan anyways? I'm minded to rename the thread :P

Dave

Angry Rants Thread (and Gallup Tracking Poll [Obama vs McCain])


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on August 17, 2008, 12:03:51 PM
Sunday - August 17, 2008

Obama - 45% (nc)
McCain - 45% (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on August 17, 2008, 12:27:21 PM
I think this is the first time that McCain has hit 45% in Gallup since Obama won the nomination.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 17, 2008, 01:08:16 PM
Sunday - August 17, 2008

Obama - 45% (nc)
McCain - 45% (+1)

OK, this might be be a bad sample, but now, this something we want to watch.  If this continues into the Wednesday numbers, the race has gotten tighter.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on August 17, 2008, 01:10:06 PM
Sunday - August 17, 2008

Obama - 45% (nc)
McCain - 45% (+1)

OK, this might be be a bad sample, but now, this something we want to watch.  If this continues into the Wednesday numbers, the race has gotten tighter.
Sunday - August 17, 2008


I wonder why... Obama seems to be raising twice as much money...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 17, 2008, 05:54:17 PM
Sunday - August 17, 2008

Obama - 45% (nc)
McCain - 45% (+1)

OK, this might be be a bad sample, but now, this something we want to watch.  If this continues into the Wednesday numbers, the race has gotten tighter.
Sunday - August 17, 2008


I wonder why... Obama seems to be raising twice as much money...

You screwed up the post, but raising money is not an accurate measure of who will win.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on August 17, 2008, 06:46:38 PM
Sunday - August 17, 2008

Obama - 45% (nc)
McCain - 45% (+1)

OK, this might be be a bad sample, but now, this something we want to watch.  If this continues into the Wednesday numbers, the race has gotten tighter.
Sunday - August 17, 2008


I wonder why... Obama seems to be raising twice as much money...

You screwed up the post, but raising money is not an accurate measure of who will win.

You screwed it up too.(And apparently so did I)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: RJ on August 17, 2008, 11:21:54 PM

OK, this might be be a bad sample, but now, this something we want to watch.  If this continues into the Wednesday numbers, the race has gotten tighter.

Maybe this "weekend bounce" just doesn't exist after all.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on August 18, 2008, 12:46:12 PM
In keeping with the theme of Dems posting on good Gallup days for Obama, Republicans posting on good Gallup days for McCain:

Monday - August 18, 2008


Obama - 46% (+1)
McCain - 43% (-2)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 18, 2008, 01:14:32 PM

OK, this might be be a bad sample, but now, this something we want to watch.  If this continues into the Wednesday numbers, the race has gotten tighter.

Maybe this "weekend bounce" just doesn't exist after all.

As you can see from the most recent numbers, yes it does.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: RJ on August 18, 2008, 02:10:00 PM

OK, this might be be a bad sample, but now, this something we want to watch.  If this continues into the Wednesday numbers, the race has gotten tighter.

Maybe this "weekend bounce" just doesn't exist after all.

As you can see from the most recent numbers, yes it does.

But Obama's lead is smaller according to today's data than it was Wednesday or Thursday of last week. That's according to Gallup.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on August 18, 2008, 02:33:10 PM
As you can see from the most recent numbers, yes it does.

This is a fallacious argument.  This is not a static race.  There is statistical noise, and there is actual movement.  As such, simply comparing one weekend sample to one weekday sample, and determining a causation from that, is spurious.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 19, 2008, 11:44:19 AM
Veterans Solidy Back McCain [19 August, 2008]

Prefer McCain to Obama by 56% to 34%

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109654/Veterans-Solidly-Back-McCain.aspx

Candidate Choice Among Military Veterans

McCain: 56%
Obama: 34%
Other: 1%
No opinion: 10%

Party Affiliation

All U.S. adults: 37% Republican/Lean Republican; 48% Democratic/Lean Democratic

Military veterans: 47% Republican/Lean Republican; 39% Democratic/Lean Democratic

Candidate Vote Choice Based on Veteran Status Among Republicans/Republican-Leaners

Veteran: McCain 89%; Obama 6%

Non-veteran: McCain 83%; Obama 10%

Candidate Vote Choice Based on Veteran Status Among Democrarts/Demcratic-Leaners

Veteran: McCain 17%; Obama 75%

Non-veteran: McCain 11%; Obama 81%

Aug. 5-17 Gallup Poll Daily tracking

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 19, 2008, 11:47:46 AM
As you can see from the most recent numbers, yes it does.

This is a fallacious argument.  This is not a static race.  There is statistical noise, and there is actual movement.  As such, simply comparing one weekend sample to one weekday sample, and determining a causation from that, is spurious.

Except the pattern seems to be there.  I think it is more of the function of the Gallup sampling technique than anything really happening in the race.

Alcon, I'm saying that "weekend bounce" is part of that "statistical noise." :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 19, 2008, 12:05:50 PM
Tuesday - August 19, 2008[/b]

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 44% (+1)

The current status of the presidential race in many ways represents the "calm before the storm", as the two candidates gear up for one of the most intensive two weeks of campaigning in recent memory. The Democrats will begin with Obama's pending announcement of his vice presidential candidate, followed by the Democratic convention beginning next Monday in Denver. Then, in short order, the Republican John McCain will announce his vice presidential candidate and the GOP convention will get underway in St. Paul, Minn., on Sept. 1.

At the moment, the race has tightened slightly, with Obama holding on to slim one percentage point margin over McCain. Based on past history, Obama should expect a bounce from his vice presidential announcement this week and the convention next week. McCain, of course, should also expect a counter bounce thereafter, settings expectations for what may turn out to be some significant ups and downs in candidate support in the weeks to come.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on August 19, 2008, 12:11:22 PM
this drop is one with a monday replacing a friday, so it really would have zero to do with any sort of weekend issues, I would say.  I just think the race is really close and polls tend to bounce a few points here and there and Sunday must've been quite a bit better than Thursday for Obama, while Monday was better than Friday for McCain... all by only a few points within the margin of error, actually.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 19, 2008, 02:38:54 PM
this drop is one with a monday replacing a friday, so it really would have zero to do with any sort of weekend issues, I would say.  I just think the race is really close and polls tend to bounce a few points here and there and Sunday must've been quite a bit better than Thursday for Obama, while Monday was better than Friday for McCain... all by only a few points within the margin of error, actually.

I'd prefer to wait until later in the week until declaring this tightening.  If McCain ties or pulls ahead by Saturday, probably.  It's too early.

Obama, all things considered, is underperforming, but that can quickly change.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 20, 2008, 01:53:06 PM
Obama 45 (nc)

McCain 43 (-1)

Probably a good sample for McCain that dropped.

this drop is one with a monday replacing a friday, so it really would have zero to do with any sort of weekend issues, I would say.  I just think the race is really close and polls tend to bounce a few points here and there and Sunday must've been quite a bit better than Thursday for Obama, while Monday was better than Friday for McCain... all by only a few points within the margin of error, actually.

Saturday's might have been the high one.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on August 20, 2008, 02:08:35 PM
Obama 45 (nc)

McCain 43 (-1)

Probably a good sample for McCain that dropped.

this drop is one with a monday replacing a friday, so it really would have zero to do with any sort of weekend issues, I would say.  I just think the race is really close and polls tend to bounce a few points here and there and Sunday must've been quite a bit better than Thursday for Obama, while Monday was better than Friday for McCain... all by only a few points within the margin of error, actually.

Saturday's might have been the high one.
Tomorrow will be all weekdays, so likely McCain moves in front...  could be since 1) Sunday must've been a decent day for Obama and it will drop tomorrow; and 2) Polls seem to show mccain moving ahead nationally right now, so even without a midweek bump, one might think McCain will move ahead tomorrow.

I think if McCain fails to move at least even, this will be evidence against a midweek/weekend bias of some sort.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 20, 2008, 06:08:28 PM
McCain Still Dominant Among the Highly Religious [20 August, 2008]

Key question if strength of McCain's support, turnout

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109678/McCain-Still-Dominant-Among-Highly-Religious.aspx

Support for Presidential Nomination Candidates, by Church Attendance

Weekly: Obama 37%; McCain 53%

Nearly weekly/Monthly: Obama 43%; McCain 47%

Seldom/Never: Obama 54%; McCain 34%

Among Non-Hispanic whites:

Weekly: Obama 25%; McCain 65%

Nearly weekly/Monthly: Obama 34%; McCain 56%

Seldom/Never: Obama 48%; McCain 39%

Support for Presidential Nomination Candidates, by Importance of Religion in Respondent's Lives

Yes, important: Obama 41%; McCain 49%

No, not important: Obama 55%; McCain 33%

Weekly aggregate based on registered voters, Aug. 11-17, 2008

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 21, 2008, 01:05:12 PM
August 22, 2008

Obama:  45 (nc)

McCain:  44 (+1)



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 21, 2008, 01:08:00 PM
Obama 45 (nc)

McCain 43 (-1)

Probably a good sample for McCain that dropped.

this drop is one with a monday replacing a friday, so it really would have zero to do with any sort of weekend issues, I would say.  I just think the race is really close and polls tend to bounce a few points here and there and Sunday must've been quite a bit better than Thursday for Obama, while Monday was better than Friday for McCain... all by only a few points within the margin of error, actually.

Saturday's might have been the high one.
Tomorrow will be all weekdays, so likely McCain moves in front...  could be since 1) Sunday must've been a decent day for Obama and it will drop tomorrow; and 2) Polls seem to show mccain moving ahead nationally right now, so even without a midweek bump, one might think McCain will move ahead tomorrow.

I think if McCain fails to move at least even, this will be evidence against a midweek/weekend bias of some sort.

He stayed behind, but I wouldn't rule out a further bump/slump.  I'd call it a tight race, but Obama still ahead.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 21, 2008, 01:10:47 PM
I must note the irony where elcorazon thinks the race is going a bit better for McCain than I do.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on August 21, 2008, 01:18:02 PM
I think the race is pretty damn even right now.

I think McCain has a good chance to pull ahead in time for election day.

I think the midweek bounce was a decent hypothesis that likely doesn't exist.

I think Walter Mitty is a useless waste of human flesh.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 21, 2008, 02:53:54 PM
I think the race is pretty damn even right now.

I think McCain has a good chance to pull ahead in time for election day.

I think the midweek bounce was a decent hypothesis that likely doesn't exist.

I think Walter Mitty is a useless waste of human flesh.

I think it is very close, perhaps a bit closer than even late July; it has gotten closer than June.

I think there is a good chance of this being a close election into the Fall.

I think we will even see a boost for Obama even before the announcement.

I think Opebo is a complete waste of human flesh, except as a subject for testing STD drugs. ;)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 21, 2008, 04:49:49 PM
The Marriage Gap in Support for McCain, Obama [21 August, 2008]

Marriage gap reflects underlying differences in composition of the parties

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109741/Marriage-Gap-Support-McCain-Obama.aspx

Preference for the General Election, by Marital Status

Married: Obama 38%; McCain 51%

Unmarried: Obama 55%; McCain 33%

By Gender and Marital Status:

Married men: Obama 35%; McCain 56%
Unmarried men: Obama 52%; McCain 37%
Married women: Obama 42%; McCain 46%
Unmarried women: Obama 57%; McCain 30%

By Marital Status and Age:

18 to 34 married: Obama 43%; McCain 47%
18 to 34 unmarried: Obama 63%; McCain 27%
35 to 54 married: Obama 38%; McCain 52%
35 to 54 unmarried: Obama 56%; McCain 33%
55+ married: Obama 36%; McCain 52%
55+ unmarried: Obama 48%; McCain 38%

Marital Status by Political Party

Republicans: Married 64%; Unmarried 36%
Independents: Married 50%; Unmarried 50%
Democrats: Married 44%; Unmarried 55%

Gallup Poll Daily tracking, Aug. 1-19, 2008

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 22, 2008, 12:21:19 PM

August 22, 2008

Obama:  45 (nc)

McCain:  44 (nc)


Absolutely static.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on August 22, 2008, 12:38:52 PM

August 22, 2008

Obama:  45 (nc)

McCain:  44 (nc)


Absolutely static.
at least until Obama gets his weekend bump.  that should start with tomorrow's numbers and continue building thru Monday's, then Tues thru thurs should turn down again, right?  although I guess the veep/convention could change things, huh?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 22, 2008, 12:41:09 PM
The race has tightened since early July, which is NOT good news for Obama.  However, Obama still maintains a lead of probably 1-3 points.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 22, 2008, 12:46:41 PM

August 22, 2008

Obama:  45 (nc)

McCain:  44 (nc)


Absolutely static.
at least until Obama gets his weekend bump.  that should start with tomorrow's numbers and continue building thru Monday's, then Tues thru thurs should turn down again, right?  although I guess the veep/convention could change things, huh?

The Veep announcement/convention should make a difference; I think it's been overhyped at this point.  There is still long term erosion in Obama's positioning, not huge, but enough.  The convention bounce will be interesting, as will McCain's Veep announcement.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 23, 2008, 12:17:48 PM
Saturday - August 23, 2008[/u]

Obama - 46% (+1)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Today's result, based on Aug. 20-22 interviewing, represents the last Gallup Poll Daily tracking update on the presidential race based on interviewing conducted entirely before Obama's selection of Delaware Sen. Joe Biden to be his running mate was announced early this morning.

The full immediate impact of that decision on voters will not be reflected in Gallup's continuous three-day rolling average results until Tuesday, however it will start to enter the data in Sunday's report. A recent analysis of the impact of past vice-presidential selections on voter preferences by Gallup Poll Managing Editor Jeff Jones, suggests a small but short-lived bounce can generally be expected.

Obama has not held a statistically significant lead over McCain in any Gallup Poll Daily tracking report since Aug. 13 -- or 10 reporting days. This is the longest stretch with Obama leading by no more than three percentage points since before Obama clinched the Democratic nomination in early June.

While Obama would clearly hope the publicity from the upcoming Democratic National Convention will help him break out of the present deadlock -- and historical poll trends show a five point bounce in support for a presidential candidate is typical after each nominating convention -- the fact that neither presidential candidate in the 2004 election received a significant convention bounce puts a question mark over the inevitability of that happening in 2008.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 23, 2008, 12:32:58 PM
Obama Lags in Democratic Support [22 August, 2008]

Democrats' lead on party ID greater than Obama's lead over McCain

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109774/Obama-Lags-Democratic-Support.aspx

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 24, 2008, 01:20:27 AM
Saturday, August 23, 2008

Obama:  46 (+1)

McCain:  44 (nc)




Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on August 24, 2008, 12:11:17 PM
Sunday - August 24, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+1)

bumping around...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on August 24, 2008, 01:00:32 PM
Sunday - August 24, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+1)

bumping around...



This doesn't pick up the Biden thing does it?  Is it a rolling 3 day poll?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Gustaf on August 24, 2008, 01:13:38 PM
Sunday - August 24, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+1)

bumping around...



This doesn't pick up the Biden thing does it?  Is it a rolling 3 day poll?

I think this one includes Saturday and since the calls are made in the evening it should, theoretically? If so, fail for Biden, he made Obama lose a point. :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: agcatter on August 24, 2008, 01:56:01 PM
Bounces don't occur the day of an event.  It wasn't until 3 or 4 days into the Obama world tour did the bounce start to show up.

In any event, it's a temporary bounce. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 24, 2008, 05:43:39 PM
Sunday - August 24, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+1)

bumping around...


Okay, either this was a really bad sample for Obama, or there is a problem.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on August 24, 2008, 05:49:59 PM
Negative bounce is coming for not picking Hillary.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: War on Want on August 24, 2008, 05:55:48 PM
Sunday - August 24, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+1)

bumping around...


Okay, either this was a really bad sample for Obama, or there is a problem.
really bad sample, that is a few days old.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 24, 2008, 05:56:18 PM
Negative bounce is coming for not picking Hillary.

No bounce or slump yet.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 24, 2008, 05:57:05 PM
Sunday - August 24, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+1)

bumping around...


Okay, either this was a really bad sample for Obama, or there is a problem.
really bad sample, that is a few days old.

Saturday's sample is in the mix.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: War on Want on August 24, 2008, 06:01:59 PM
Sunday - August 24, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+1)

bumping around...


Okay, either this was a really bad sample for Obama, or there is a problem.
really bad sample, that is a few days old.

Saturday's sample is in the mix.
Exactly, besides a huge bump is not coming from Obama picking Biden just a 2-3 point one.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 24, 2008, 07:05:49 PM
Sunday - August 24, 2008

Obama - 45% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+1)

bumping around...


Okay, either this was a really bad sample for Obama, or there is a problem.
really bad sample, that is a few days old.

Saturday's sample is in the mix.
Exactly, besides a huge bump is not coming from Obama picking Biden just a 2-3 point one.

There should have been a bump, but it includes yesterday's numbers.  There should have been an increase.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on August 24, 2008, 07:20:04 PM
There isn't going be any short-term bounce from picking Biden. Most people don't have a clue as to who he is.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 24, 2008, 08:24:05 PM
There isn't going be any short-term bounce from picking Biden. Most people don't have a clue as to who he is.

I was thinking more of the weekend bounce.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on August 24, 2008, 08:50:20 PM
What time of day are the polls conducted for Gallup?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 24, 2008, 08:57:23 PM
What time of day are the polls conducted for Gallup?

That I don't know.  I'd guess early evening, because that's when they generally call me.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on August 24, 2008, 09:32:37 PM
Be patient, folks. 

The only problem is that the VP bounce may be confused as a during-the-convention bounce, which may leave the convention bounce lower than anticipated.  I think the Obama people were trying to create duplicate bounces that the media would report as one, but I think they needed to name the VP on Thursday to make that possible.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 25, 2008, 12:09:26 PM
Monday - August 25, 2008

Obama - 45% (-)
McCain - 45% (-)

The latest update includes two days of interviewing following Obama's selection of Sen. Joe Biden as his vice presidential running mate, and neither day showed an improved performance for Obama. Thus, Obama does not appear to have gotten the same type of immediate "vice presidential bounce" as have presidential candidates in recent years. That could reflect a somewhat muted national response to the Biden selection, or competition for the nation's attention with the Olympics. (The candidates who got vice presidential bounces in 1996, 2000, and 2004 announced their choices before or after the Olympics took place in those years.)

In fact, today's results, using Aug. 22-24 interviews, show both candidates getting precisely the same number of votes when more than 2,600 national registered voters were asked who they would vote for "if the presidential election were held today."

The race has clearly tightened over the past two weeks, after Obama held a modest advantage (averaging three percentage points) from the time he clinched the Democratic presidential nomination in early June through mid-August.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 25, 2008, 12:13:44 PM
Negative bounce is coming for not picking Hillary.

Did any one ever, seriously, expect Obama would pick Hillary?

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: agcatter on August 25, 2008, 12:32:33 PM
VP selection is not going to give either candidate a bounce.  It's the convention this week that will give Obama a bounce and we won't see any of that until the middle or late part of the week - but he will get a bounce.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 25, 2008, 12:34:16 PM
Obama's lost the weekend bounce as well.   He's weakening.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on August 25, 2008, 02:23:53 PM
Obama's lost the weekend bounce as well.   He's weakening.
possibly.  or mccain's lost the weekday bounce.  or there never really was one.  or this is a bad sample. or it's summer...  you get the idea.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 25, 2008, 02:27:38 PM
Obama's lost the weekend bounce as well.   He's weakening.
possibly.  or mccain's lost the weekday bounce.  or there never really was one.  or this is a bad sample. or it's summer...  you get the idea.

No, that's why I was waiting a few days to see if the "bad sample" dropped out.  It's probably a dead heat or a slight McCain lead (less than 0.5% at best).  For all practical purposes, Obama walked into the Convention tied.  That's been about 6-8 weeks of erosion. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on August 25, 2008, 02:34:04 PM
Obama's lost the weekend bounce as well.   He's weakening.
possibly.  or mccain's lost the weekday bounce.  or there never really was one.  or this is a bad sample. or it's summer...  you get the idea.

No, that's why I was waiting a few days to see if the "bad sample" dropped out.  It's probably a dead heat or a slight McCain lead (less than 0.5% at best).  For all practical purposes, Obama walked into the Convention tied.  That's been about 6-8 weeks of erosion. 
I agree it's really close right now, BUT, I'm not sure how you can surmise McCain is the one who MIGHT be ahead.  I mean, in the last 10 days+, it's either been tied or Obama's been ahead consistently.  And Obama's been more likely to be ahead in other polls as well, both tracking and otherwise.

I'd put the race at even - Obama +1.5% or so, right now, going into the convention.

The best obama can hope for I'd say, is to come out of the convention  +5-6%, and to not lose it all by the end of the republican convention.  way to soon to start guessing at that though.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 25, 2008, 02:37:40 PM
Obama's lost the weekend bounce as well.   He's weakening.
possibly.  or mccain's lost the weekday bounce.  or there never really was one.  or this is a bad sample. or it's summer...  you get the idea.

No, that's why I was waiting a few days to see if the "bad sample" dropped out.  It's probably a dead heat or a slight McCain lead (less than 0.5% at best).  For all practical purposes, Obama walked into the Convention tied.  That's been about 6-8 weeks of erosion. 
I agree it's really close right now, BUT, I'm not sure how you can surmise McCain is the one who MIGHT be ahead.  I mean, in the last 10 days+, it's either been tied or Obama's been ahead consistently.  And Obama's been more likely to be ahead in other polls as well, both tracking and otherwise.

I'd put the race at even - Obama +1.5% or so, right now, going into the convention.

The best obama can hope for I'd say, is to come out of the convention  +5-6%, and to not lose it all by the end of the republican convention.  way to soon to start guessing at that though.

I give a very slight Bradley Effect (less than 1%), but poresent.  I also realize that Obama does  temd to do better on weekends, yet he's still slumping, holding.  I think, out there in the ether, it is a possibly a slight lead for McCain (very slight).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on August 26, 2008, 12:22:38 PM
Surprised the Republicans haven't jumped on this one quicker...

Tuesday, August 26, 2008
McCain 46 (+1)
Obama 44 (-1)

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109834/Gallup-Daily-Bounce-Obama-Post-Biden-Tracking.aspx

Hard to tell yet, and it'll get muddled up in convention noise, but there may have been a negative bounce from the Biden pick.  damn nomo types...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Bay Ridge, Bklyn! Born and Bred on August 26, 2008, 12:27:00 PM
Negative bounce for Obama in picking the plagarizer as his running mate.   

This is what happens when you allow the DU/Moveon.org moonbats dictate your running mate.  "1st and 3rd most liberal members of the senate"

Same thing happened in 2004.   Ouch!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on August 26, 2008, 12:28:21 PM
Negative bounce for Obama in picking the plagarizer as his running mate.   

This is what happens when you allow the DU/Moveon.org moonbats dictate your running mate.  "1st and 3rd most liberal members of the senate"

Same thing happened in 2004.   Ouch!

Except there was no negative bounce then.  I think a different dynamic may be at work.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on August 26, 2008, 12:35:32 PM
Strange. That's all I can say ... :(


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on August 26, 2008, 12:37:39 PM

Probably has to do with a four-letter word that starts with a "P", if it is really occurring. 

Be patient though.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Bay Ridge, Bklyn! Born and Bred on August 26, 2008, 01:12:49 PM
Perhaps it was the amazingly idiotic way they managed the txt message roll-out of the plagarizer as Obama's running mate.  Waiting all friggin week for a cell text that arrived on 3am Saturday morning, and when the story was already broken that it was someone who never worked for a living and instead spent 35 years in the senate.

That had to piss a few people off.   lol


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 26, 2008, 01:29:01 PM
Surprised the Republicans haven't jumped on this one quicker...

Tuesday, August 26, 2008
McCain 46 (+1)
Obama 44 (-1)

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109834/Gallup-Daily-Bounce-Obama-Post-Biden-Tracking.aspx

Hard to tell yet, and it'll get muddled up in convention noise, but there may have been a negative bounce from the Biden pick.  damn nomo types...

I don't think Biden hurt, but it didn't help, nationally.

There should be a convention bounce by this time next week.  If there isn't, Obama has a problem.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on August 26, 2008, 01:52:46 PM
Surprised the Republicans haven't jumped on this one quicker...

Tuesday, August 26, 2008
McCain 46 (+1)
Obama 44 (-1)

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109834/Gallup-Daily-Bounce-Obama-Post-Biden-Tracking.aspx

Hard to tell yet, and it'll get muddled up in convention noise, but there may have been a negative bounce from the Biden pick.  damn nomo types...

I don't think Biden hurt, but it didn't help, nationally.

There should be a convention bounce by this time next week.  If there isn't, Obama has a problem.

Agreed, but at the same time, none of this sample is even from the convention... the Monday numbers were undoubtedly called before Michelle or even Kennedy's speeches... We'll see though


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 26, 2008, 02:05:59 PM
Obama's lost the weekend bounce as well.   He's weakening.
possibly.  or mccain's lost the weekday bounce.  or there never really was one.  or this is a bad sample. or it's summer...  you get the idea.

No, that's why I was waiting a few days to see if the "bad sample" dropped out.  It's probably a dead heat or a slight McCain lead (less than 0.5% at best).  For all practical purposes, Obama walked into the Convention tied.  That's been about 6-8 weeks of erosion. 
I agree it's really close right now, BUT, I'm not sure how you can surmise McCain is the one who MIGHT be ahead.  I mean, in the last 10 days+, it's either been tied or Obama's been ahead consistently.  And Obama's been more likely to be ahead in other polls as well, both tracking and otherwise.

I'd put the race at even - Obama +1.5% or so, right now, going into the convention.

The best obama can hope for I'd say, is to come out of the convention  +5-6%, and to not lose it all by the end of the republican convention.  way to soon to start guessing at that though.

I give a very slight Bradley Effect (less than 1%), but poresent.  I also realize that Obama does  temd to do better on weekends, yet he's still slumping, holding.  I think, out there in the ether, it is a possibly a slight lead for McCain (very slight).

I seem to have been correct.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on August 26, 2008, 02:43:57 PM
Obama's lost the weekend bounce as well.   He's weakening.
possibly.  or mccain's lost the weekday bounce.  or there never really was one.  or this is a bad sample. or it's summer...  you get the idea.

No, that's why I was waiting a few days to see if the "bad sample" dropped out.  It's probably a dead heat or a slight McCain lead (less than 0.5% at best).  For all practical purposes, Obama walked into the Convention tied.  That's been about 6-8 weeks of erosion. 
I agree it's really close right now, BUT, I'm not sure how you can surmise McCain is the one who MIGHT be ahead.  I mean, in the last 10 days+, it's either been tied or Obama's been ahead consistently.  And Obama's been more likely to be ahead in other polls as well, both tracking and otherwise.

I'd put the race at even - Obama +1.5% or so, right now, going into the convention.

The best obama can hope for I'd say, is to come out of the convention  +5-6%, and to not lose it all by the end of the republican convention.  way to soon to start guessing at that though.

I give a very slight Bradley Effect (less than 1%), but poresent.  I also realize that Obama does  temd to do better on weekends, yet he's still slumping, holding.  I think, out there in the ether, it is a possibly a slight lead for McCain (very slight).

I seem to have been correct.

The race has undoubtedly tightened, but only a few points. Obama never lead by more than an average of 5 or so, so being tied is not a collapse so much as a minor regression. I'll be more worried when Obama starts losing in blue states.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 26, 2008, 03:23:26 PM
Obama's lost the weekend bounce as well.   He's weakening.
possibly.  or mccain's lost the weekday bounce.  or there never really was one.  or this is a bad sample. or it's summer...  you get the idea.

No, that's why I was waiting a few days to see if the "bad sample" dropped out.  It's probably a dead heat or a slight McCain lead (less than 0.5% at best).  For all practical purposes, Obama walked into the Convention tied.  That's been about 6-8 weeks of erosion. 
I agree it's really close right now, BUT, I'm not sure how you can surmise McCain is the one who MIGHT be ahead.  I mean, in the last 10 days+, it's either been tied or Obama's been ahead consistently.  And Obama's been more likely to be ahead in other polls as well, both tracking and otherwise.

I'd put the race at even - Obama +1.5% or so, right now, going into the convention.

The best obama can hope for I'd say, is to come out of the convention  +5-6%, and to not lose it all by the end of the republican convention.  way to soon to start guessing at that though.

I give a very slight Bradley Effect (less than 1%), but poresent.  I also realize that Obama does  temd to do better on weekends, yet he's still slumping, holding.  I think, out there in the ether, it is a possibly a slight lead for McCain (very slight).

I seem to have been correct.

The race has undoubtedly tightened, but only a few points. Obama never lead by more than an average of 5 or so, so being tied is not a collapse so much as a minor regression. I'll be more worried when Obama starts losing in blue states.

Wiz, I do not understand how you can go from "a slight lead for McCain (very slight)" to suggesting that I said a complete collapse.  I'd only be worried/happy if there was a McCain lead this time next week.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on August 26, 2008, 03:29:06 PM
Obama's lost the weekend bounce as well.   He's weakening.
possibly.  or mccain's lost the weekday bounce.  or there never really was one.  or this is a bad sample. or it's summer...  you get the idea.

No, that's why I was waiting a few days to see if the "bad sample" dropped out.  It's probably a dead heat or a slight McCain lead (less than 0.5% at best).  For all practical purposes, Obama walked into the Convention tied.  That's been about 6-8 weeks of erosion. 
I agree it's really close right now, BUT, I'm not sure how you can surmise McCain is the one who MIGHT be ahead.  I mean, in the last 10 days+, it's either been tied or Obama's been ahead consistently.  And Obama's been more likely to be ahead in other polls as well, both tracking and otherwise.

I'd put the race at even - Obama +1.5% or so, right now, going into the convention.

The best obama can hope for I'd say, is to come out of the convention  +5-6%, and to not lose it all by the end of the republican convention.  way to soon to start guessing at that though.

I give a very slight Bradley Effect (less than 1%), but poresent.  I also realize that Obama does  temd to do better on weekends, yet he's still slumping, holding.  I think, out there in the ether, it is a possibly a slight lead for McCain (very slight).

I seem to have been correct.
based on one poll showing mccain in front.  Let's wait a few days and see if that lead holds up... or are you willing to use this day's tracking poll as the standard for judging whatever convention "bounce" might occur?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: agcatter on August 26, 2008, 03:31:56 PM
Yep, PUMA.

I suspect Obama will be up 6 or 7 by Monday.  Wall to wall lovefest in Denver plus another "tingle" speech in front of 75K cultists chanting the messiah's name and giving the O sign.  Nurenburg all over again.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on August 26, 2008, 03:33:02 PM
Yep, PUMA.

I suspect Obama will be up 6 or 7 by Monday.  Wall to wall lovefest in Denver plus another "tingle" speech in front of 75K cultists chanting the messiah's name and giving the O sign.  Nurenburg all over again.
but the elitism that will be oozing from the convention is bound to cost him a couple of points.  I predict that by next Monday Obama's up no more than 1-2%


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 26, 2008, 03:34:28 PM
Obama's lost the weekend bounce as well.   He's weakening.
possibly.  or mccain's lost the weekday bounce.  or there never really was one.  or this is a bad sample. or it's summer...  you get the idea.

No, that's why I was waiting a few days to see if the "bad sample" dropped out.  It's probably a dead heat or a slight McCain lead (less than 0.5% at best).  For all practical purposes, Obama walked into the Convention tied.  That's been about 6-8 weeks of erosion. 
I agree it's really close right now, BUT, I'm not sure how you can surmise McCain is the one who MIGHT be ahead.  I mean, in the last 10 days+, it's either been tied or Obama's been ahead consistently.  And Obama's been more likely to be ahead in other polls as well, both tracking and otherwise.

I'd put the race at even - Obama +1.5% or so, right now, going into the convention.

The best obama can hope for I'd say, is to come out of the convention  +5-6%, and to not lose it all by the end of the republican convention.  way to soon to start guessing at that though.

I give a very slight Bradley Effect (less than 1%), but poresent.  I also realize that Obama does  temd to do better on weekends, yet he's still slumping, holding.  I think, out there in the ether, it is a possibly a slight lead for McCain (very slight).

I seem to have been correct.
based on one poll showing mccain in front.  Let's wait a few days and see if that lead holds up... or are you willing to use this day's tracking poll as the standard for judging whatever convention "bounce" might occur?

It clearly tightened and Obama should have done better over the weekend.

I basically think it is a dead heat, possibly with McCain a fractional point ahead, maybe.  If McCain really is ahead, it won't be enough to consistenly register in the polls, even without a post convention bump.  I fully expect that next week, Obama will be in the lead.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 26, 2008, 03:39:23 PM
Yep, PUMA.

I suspect Obama will be up 6 or 7 by Monday.  Wall to wall lovefest in Denver plus another "tingle" speech in front of 75K cultists chanting the messiah's name and giving the O sign.  Nurenburg all over again.
but the elitism that will be oozing from the convention is bound to cost him a couple of points.  I predict that by next Monday Obama's up no more than 1-2%

I'd expect 3-4 points; I think if it's 1-2, Obama has big problems.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on August 27, 2008, 11:57:44 AM
Wednesday, August 27

Obama 45% (+1)
McCain 44% (-2)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 27, 2008, 11:59:36 AM
Wednesday, August 27

Obama 45% (+1)
McCain 44% (-2)

OK, that one makes some sense.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on August 28, 2008, 12:02:32 PM
Dang !!!

Thursday - August 28, 2008:

Obama 48% (+3)
McCain 42% (-2)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: exopolitician on August 28, 2008, 12:03:34 PM
Dang !!!

Thursday - August 28, 2008:

Obama 48% (+3)
McCain 42% (-2)

Oh...well...hi.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on August 28, 2008, 12:03:56 PM
not surprising, actually.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: afleitch on August 28, 2008, 12:04:53 PM
That's better. It will dip next week of course. This race won't be decided for some while yet but McCain will slow and tire.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on August 28, 2008, 12:05:33 PM
Time to short Pawlenty and buy Lieberman... McCain's volatility index went way up.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 28, 2008, 12:06:48 PM
Dang !!!

Thursday - August 28, 2008:

Obama 48% (+3)
McCain 42% (-2)

The latest three-day Gallup Poll Daily tracking average (Aug. 25-27) is directly coincident with the first three days of the Democratic National Convention in Denver, and is no doubt beginning to reflect the typical convention "bounce" that Gallup has observed in most party conventions in recent decades. There is a lag of sorts involved in the daily tracking; interviewing is conducted in most parts of the country before that evening's high-focus speeches have taken place. Thus, the current three-day average would reflect any impact of Monday night's speech by Michelle Obama, and Tuesday night's speech by Hillary Clinton, but would not completely reflect Wednesday night's lineup of speakers, such as John Kerry, former President Bill Clinton, and vice presidential nominee Joe Biden, nor the appearance on stage at the end of the evening by Barack Obama himself.

Gallup's interviewing for last Friday through Sunday, the last three days before the convention officially began, showed the race at a 45% to 45% tie. Thus, there is already a six percentage point bounce evident in the data, although the final "official" post-convention bounce used in comparison with other recent conventions will not be tabulated by Gallup until interviewing for Friday through Sunday is completed (reported next Monday on gallup.com).

Of keen interest this year will be the dynamics of the race in the forthcoming days, as John McCain, by all accounts, will attempt to pounce on the Democrats' bounce by announcing his vice presidential running mate either Thursday night or Friday and with attention turning quickly to the Republican convention that is set to begin on Monday in St. Paul. Also in the mix this year will be an act of nature; if Tropical Storm Gustav becomes a hurricane and makes landfall on the U.S. Gulf Coast sometime on Tuesday, news coverage of the GOP convention will be diluted, and the impact of that situation (coming some three years after Hurricane Katrina) is impossible to predict.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck on August 28, 2008, 12:34:35 PM
I think this is a plateau that is going to form for Obama that is not going to really go down at all.  After his speech, he'll go up to about +8, +9 in the tracking polls, back down to +3,+4 after the GOP convention, wind up gaining a couple points in the debate, and win by 6 on election night. 

Why do I believe this?  Because this election is ALL about Obama.  Whether you love him, hate him, not ready to vote for him, kinda want to vote for him.... etc. etc.  McCain is about as important to this election as Kerry was in 2004.  It's safe choice (McCain) vs. risk (Obama)... in a year when Americans will take a risk. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Josh/Devilman88 on August 28, 2008, 12:43:30 PM
:) 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Vsanto5 on August 28, 2008, 12:44:47 PM
If this is somehow an indication of undecided voters deciding a candidate it could prove lethal for McSame.  Plus the hurricane is going to sway some viewers from watching the RNC especially Florida voters. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on August 28, 2008, 12:51:34 PM
If this is somehow an indication of undecided voters deciding a candidate it could prove lethal for McSame.  Plus the hurricane is going to sway some viewers from watching the RNC especially Florida voters. 

Not Florida voters. Gustav isn't going anywhere near Florida. It's New Orleans and Houston that are anxious. TS Hanna could affect Florida, but, if it does, that won't be until after the convention.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on August 28, 2008, 12:52:57 PM
Dang !!!

Thursday - August 28, 2008:

Obama 48% (+3)
McCain 42% (-2)

Cool :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Vsanto5 on August 28, 2008, 01:51:09 PM
I forgot that Florida voters are completely unaffected by Hurricanes unless its barreling their way. LOL

But I know people there really dont
get fazed as much by hurricanes as in Texas. We get like freaked out by such phenomenon.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 28, 2008, 02:04:37 PM
Actually, it might hit Western FL.

Now, finially, there is the convention bounce.  The highest day should be Monday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on August 28, 2008, 03:43:08 PM
You know, at least in some ways, Having a Hurricane during McCain's convention could be more damaging than anything Obama could hit him with... Even if it just diverts some coverage.

Symbolism is a powerful thing.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 28, 2008, 05:03:04 PM
You know, at least in some ways, Having a Hurricane during McCain's convention could be more damaging than anything Obama could hit him with... Even if it just diverts some coverage.

Symbolism is a powerful thing.

Praying for victims can help.  Yes, I'm a cynic.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on August 28, 2008, 06:17:09 PM
You know, at least in some ways, Having a Hurricane during McCain's convention could be more damaging than anything Obama could hit him with... Even if it just diverts some coverage.

Symbolism is a powerful thing.

Praying for victims can help.  Yes, I'm a cynic.

Praying for victims during the convention?  ???


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 28, 2008, 06:22:40 PM
You know, at least in some ways, Having a Hurricane during McCain's convention could be more damaging than anything Obama could hit him with... Even if it just diverts some coverage.

Symbolism is a powerful thing.

Praying for victims can help.  Yes, I'm a cynic.

Praying for victims during the convention?  ???

Yes, as in, "Let's have a moment to pray for those people in the path of Hurricane Gustav (Gustaf?)."  It was for the country, but Reagan did it in 1980.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on August 28, 2008, 06:27:38 PM
Yes, as in, "Let's have a moment to pray for those people in the path of Hurricane Gustav (Gustaf?)."  It was for the country, but Reagan did it in 1980.

I think Americans would see that as a nice gesture, but it hardly defuses the central problem:  the networks aren't going to pre-empt coverage of a major hurricane to re-broadcast the RNC footage -- prayer or otherwise.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Josh/Devilman88 on August 28, 2008, 06:30:09 PM
This should prove that God is for Obama!! Just Picking.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 28, 2008, 06:34:04 PM
Yes, as in, "Let's have a moment to pray for those people in the path of Hurricane Gustav (Gustaf?)."  It was for the country, but Reagan did it in 1980.

I think Americans would see that as a nice gesture, but it hardly defuses the central problem:  the networks aren't going to pre-empt coverage of a major hurricane to re-broadcast the RNC footage -- prayer or otherwise.

I didn't say it would.  I was referring to the symbolism.  It also depends on if the storm is "photogenic," for lack of a better word.  Katrina itself wasn't, but the aftermath was.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on August 28, 2008, 07:01:19 PM
Yes, as in, "Let's have a moment to pray for those people in the path of Hurricane Gustav (Gustaf?)."  It was for the country, but Reagan did it in 1980.

I think Americans would see that as a nice gesture, but it hardly defuses the central problem:  the networks aren't going to pre-empt coverage of a major hurricane to re-broadcast the RNC footage -- prayer or otherwise.

I didn't say it would.  I was referring to the symbolism.  It also depends on if the storm is "photogenic," for lack of a better word.  Katrina itself wasn't, but the aftermath was.

And McCain really wants to get into a battle over photo ops regarding hurricanes?  That would present a great opportunity for stock footage.

In any case, I have to say, J. J., your ability to find optimism for Republicans in every twist and turn of this election season is remarkable :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on August 28, 2008, 07:05:12 PM
The latest one-day sample is apparently Obama +15. That is where the bump is coming from.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on August 28, 2008, 07:06:56 PM
The latest one-day sample is apparently Obama +15. That is where the bump is coming from.

[lololololol]

15-point bump

[/lololololol]


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on August 28, 2008, 07:16:46 PM
The latest one-day sample is apparently Obama +15. That is where the bump is coming from.

[lololololol]

15-point bump

[/lololololol]

When did I ever say that?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 28, 2008, 07:18:01 PM
Yes, as in, "Let's have a moment to pray for those people in the path of Hurricane Gustav (Gustaf?)."  It was for the country, but Reagan did it in 1980.

I think Americans would see that as a nice gesture, but it hardly defuses the central problem:  the networks aren't going to pre-empt coverage of a major hurricane to re-broadcast the RNC footage -- prayer or otherwise.

I didn't say it would.  I was referring to the symbolism.  It also depends on if the storm is "photogenic," for lack of a better word.  Katrina itself wasn't, but the aftermath was.

And McCain really wants to get into a battle over photo ops regarding hurricanes?  That would present a great opportunity for stock footage.

In any case, I have to say, J. J., your ability to find optimism for Republicans in every twist and turn of this election season is remarkable :)

I'm just talking about the symbolic aspects and the images.  Think back to Katrina.  How much footage did you actually see of it hitting?  Huge amounts of the aftermath, but not of it hitting.

Hey, I lived through a political campaign during the Iranian Hostage Crisis.  I saw what worked.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on August 28, 2008, 07:22:28 PM
The latest one-day sample is apparently Obama +15. That is where the bump is coming from.

[lololololol]

15-point bump

[/lololololol]

When did I ever say that?

No, no.  I was just saying that Obama is actually polling with a 15-point bump, like the McCain campaign "predicted."  Obviously just a result of a lucky sample and the convention bounce, but still :)

I'm just talking about the symbolic aspects and the images.  Think back to Katrina.  How much footage did you actually see of it hitting?  Huge amounts of the aftermath, but not of it hitting.

Hey, I lived through a political campaign during the Iranian Hostage Crisis.  I saw what worked.

No footage of it hitting.  But you don't think the media would run with this?

()

It seems to me like you'd be calling this potentially "very bad" or "disastrous" if this was Obama instead of McCain.  Maybe that's just me seeing that, though...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on August 28, 2008, 07:23:03 PM
This should prove that God is for Obama!! Just Picking.

Obviously God would be for his son. ::)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 28, 2008, 07:24:57 PM
The latest one-day sample is apparently Obama +15. That is where the bump is coming from.

[lololololol]

15-point bump

[/lololololol]

When did I ever say that?

No, no.  I was just saying that Obama is actually polling with a 15-point bump, like the McCain campaign "predicted."  Obviously just a result of a lucky sample and the convention bounce, but still :)

I'm just talking about the symbolic aspects and the images.  Think back to Katrina.  How much footage did you actually see of it hitting?  Huge amounts of the aftermath, but not of it hitting.

Hey, I lived through a political campaign during the Iranian Hostage Crisis.  I saw what worked.

No footage of it hitting.  But you don't think the media would run with this?

()

It seems to me like you'd be calling this potentially "very bad" or "disastrous" if this was Obama instead of McCain.  Maybe that's just me seeing that, though...

Not with being accused of gigantic bias and throwing the election to McCain.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on August 28, 2008, 07:31:26 PM
No footage of it hitting.  But you don't think the media would run with this?

[snip]

It seems to me like you'd be calling this potentially "very bad" or "disastrous" if this was Obama instead of McCain.  Maybe that's just me seeing that, though...

Not with being accused of gigantic bias and throwing the election to McCain.

Huh?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: War on Want on August 28, 2008, 07:34:29 PM
This should prove that God is for Obama!! Just Picking.

Obviously God would be for his son. ::)
Retarded joke is retarded joke.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 28, 2008, 08:26:39 PM
No footage of it hitting.  But you don't think the media would run with this?

[snip]

It seems to me like you'd be calling this potentially "very bad" or "disastrous" if this was Obama instead of McCain.  Maybe that's just me seeing that, though...

Not with being accused of gigantic bias and throwing the election to McCain.

Huh?

It would look too partisan and toss it to McCain.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on August 29, 2008, 12:02:09 AM
No footage of it hitting.  But you don't think the media would run with this?

[snip]

It seems to me like you'd be calling this potentially "very bad" or "disastrous" if this was Obama instead of McCain.  Maybe that's just me seeing that, though...

Not with being accused of gigantic bias and throwing the election to McCain.

Huh?

It would look too partisan and toss it to McCain.

LOL. LOL. NOw that is the height of hackery.

Pictures of McCain with Bush will get more people to vote for McCain. LOL. Now if you want to argue it wouldn't have much of an effect you might have a point but throw the election to McCain...LOL.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: The Mikado on August 29, 2008, 12:02:57 PM
As Sam would say, "in form of Hawk:"

Obama 49 (+1)
McCain 41 (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on August 29, 2008, 12:04:32 PM
Sounds about right.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: The Mikado on August 29, 2008, 12:16:01 PM
Sam, I'm sure you've already discussed this elsewhere, but how do you see the GOP essentially stepping on the Dem's convention working out?

EDIT:

In terms of the bounce and polling, of course.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on August 29, 2008, 12:20:30 PM
Sam, I'm sure you've already discussed this elsewhere, but how do you see the GOP essentially stepping on the Dem's convention working out?

EDIT:

In terms of the bounce and polling, of course.

Am I the only one who thinks naming his VP now, the Friday before Labor day, when people are on vacation, you arent going to get the same response you would have any other time.

Not that McCain had a choice, but circumstances seem to be screwing him (see: Gustav, Hurricane).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 29, 2008, 12:27:49 PM
I, generally, like to post the write-up when the numbers change ;)

As Sam would say, "in form of Hawk:"

Obama 49 (+1)
McCain 41 (-1)

Obama's significant lead over McCain almost certainly reflects the effects of the Democratic National Convention. The two presidential candidates were tied at 45% in the last Gallup Poll Daily tracking results conducted entirely before the convention began. The latest results include interviews from Tuesday through Thursday night, though most of the interviewing was conducted before Obama's acceptance speech late Thursday.

Gallup has measured the convention bounce for candidates in previous years by comparing the last poll conducted entirely before the convention began with the first poll conducted entirely after the convention concludes. That historical calculation is complicated this year by the intense media focus on McCain's selection of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his vice presidential running mate on Friday, and the increasing focus on next week's Republican National Convention.

Obama has clearly seen a rise in the polls since the convention began with a 4-point increase in his support (from 45% to 49%) with the margin moving eight points in his favor. Obama's largest advantage at any point in the campaign was a 9-point lead recorded July 24-26, so as his party's convention concludes, he is about as strongly positioned as he has been at any point this year.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on August 29, 2008, 12:41:46 PM
Sam, I'm sure you've already discussed this elsewhere, but how do you see the GOP essentially stepping on the Dem's convention working out?

EDIT:

In terms of the bounce and polling, of course.

You're talking about the VP pick right?  Not the rest of the stuff.  Hard to tell.  Probably mitigates it somewhat.  Be patient.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on August 29, 2008, 01:45:13 PM
I'm looking foward to seeing the impact of his speech. About 40 million people watched it live.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on August 29, 2008, 03:03:42 PM
I'm looking foward to seeing the impact of his speech. About 40 million people watched it live.

Note: That is more than the final episode of American Idol or the opening ceremonies of the Olympic Games.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on August 29, 2008, 03:08:54 PM
A 7 point bounce.... not bad....if McCain gets a 5 point bounce, Obama will be ahead by 3, instead of 1. This will mean that it will still be Obama's race to lose.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 30, 2008, 12:07:59 PM
Saturday - August 30, 2008

Obama - 49% (nc)
McCain - 41% (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: exopolitician on August 30, 2008, 12:17:27 PM
did you know, more people watch dancing with the stars than do vote in a presidential election?

Sad.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 30, 2008, 01:38:45 PM
Saturday - August 30, 2008

Obama - 49% (nc)
McCain - 41% (nc)

I hate to say this, but I'm not convinced that isn't still part of the McCain mid week bounce from the summer.  I'm not too excited just yet.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nutmeg on August 30, 2008, 03:51:05 PM
I hate to say this, but I'm not convinced that isn't still part of the McCain mid week bounce from the summer.

What do you mean?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on August 30, 2008, 03:54:36 PM
A 7 point bounce.... not bad....if McCain gets a 5 point bounce, Obama will be ahead by 3, instead of 1. This will mean that it will still be Obama's race to lose.

You wish.  Don't forget that Reagan was the underdog before the debates.  I don't know how the debates will go, but the election is by far over.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on August 30, 2008, 04:17:23 PM
A 7 point bounce.... not bad....if McCain gets a 5 point bounce, Obama will be ahead by 3, instead of 1. This will mean that it will still be Obama's race to lose.

You wish.  Don't forget that Reagan was the underdog before the debates.  I don't know how the debates will go, but the election is by far over.

Not every election is like 1980, as much as the Republicans would like to hope so.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on August 30, 2008, 04:19:14 PM
A 7 point bounce.... not bad....if McCain gets a 5 point bounce, Obama will be ahead by 3, instead of 1. This will mean that it will still be Obama's race to lose.

You wish.  Don't forget that Reagan was the underdog before the debates.  I don't know how the debates will go, but the election is by far over.

Agreed; however, I assume you agree that Obama does have an edge, yes?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 30, 2008, 04:21:05 PM
I hate to say this, but I'm not convinced that isn't still part of the McCain mid week bounce from the summer.

What do you mean?

These can be low numbers for Obama.  He normally should get an uptick tomorrow or Monday


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Harry Hayfield on August 30, 2008, 05:22:27 PM
Saturday - August 30, 2008

Obama - 49% (nc)
McCain - 41% (nc)

Could I ask if these are "likely voters" or "registered voters" and what difference the two terms mean?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on August 30, 2008, 06:16:12 PM
A 7 point bounce.... not bad....if McCain gets a 5 point bounce, Obama will be ahead by 3, instead of 1. This will mean that it will still be Obama's race to lose.

You wish.  Don't forget that Reagan was the underdog before the debates.  I don't know how the debates will go, but the election is by far over.

Agreed; however, I assume you agree that Obama does have an edge, yes?

Sure, I don't think anyone is arguing with that.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 30, 2008, 08:11:37 PM
A 7 point bounce.... not bad....if McCain gets a 5 point bounce, Obama will be ahead by 3, instead of 1. This will mean that it will still be Obama's race to lose.

You wish.  Don't forget that Reagan was the underdog before the debates.  I don't know how the debates will go, but the election is by far over.

Agreed; however, I assume you agree that Obama does have an edge, yes?

Sure, I don't think anyone is arguing with that.

When you factor out all the bouncing that is/will probably be going on, maybe not.  September 11-15 will be telling.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CPT MikeyMike on August 31, 2008, 12:06:35 PM
Sunday - August 31, 2008

Obama - 48% (-1)
McCain - 42% (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on August 31, 2008, 12:15:06 PM
Sunday - August 31, 2008

Obama - 48% (-1)
McCain - 42% (+1)

So he got a three to six point bounce. Not bad for McCain.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on August 31, 2008, 12:21:22 PM
Sunday - August 31, 2008

Obama - 48% (-1)
McCain - 42% (+1)

Though down slightly from the eight-point lead Obama held mid-convention, this represents a clear improvement for the Democratic candidate's positioning in the campaign compared to a week ago when the race was about tied. The last Gallup update conducted entirely before Obama's convention and vice presidential announcement was based on interviews conducted Aug. 20-22, and showed Obama up by two points, 46% to 44%.

As the recent trend shows, Obama did not gain any additional support in the poll since his generally well-reviewed acceptance speech on Thursday night. However, the Aug. 28-30 field period also includes two days of interviewing since the Friday morning announcement by McCain that he has chosen Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to join him on the Republican ticket. Thus, it is unclear whether the full positive impact on national voters of the Democratic convention or Obama's speech would have been greater if not for the Palin announcement.

As Gallup has noted in recent weeks, both the vice-presidential selections and the national conventions have historically produced small bumps in support for the presidential candidates associated with those events (on the order of about five percentage points for each). However, this year, Obama's announcement of Joe Biden as his running mate produced no immediate increase in support for Obama in a one-night USA Today/Gallup reaction poll.

Given that the immediate reaction by national voters to Palin was very similar to their first reaction to Biden -- mildly positive but also with a high degree of uncertainty about each -- it may not be surprising if the publicity surrounding her announcement also does not produce an immediate bounce in support for McCain.

The mounting news coverage over the past 48 hours of the impending landfall of Hurricane Gustav on the Gulf Coast introduces still another variable into the mix of factors possibly affecting voter reaction to the recent campaign events.

Monday's Gallup Poll Daily tracking report will be the first three-day rolling average based entirely on interviews conducted after the Democratic National Convention, as well as after the announcement of Palin as McCain's choice for vice president.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on August 31, 2008, 12:24:22 PM
Sunday - August 31, 2008

Obama - 48% (-1)
McCain - 42% (+1)

So he got a three to six point bounce. Not bad for McCain.

And, it's the weekend, probably a bit inflated for Obama in this poll.  Palin still isn't completely in the mix, but it looks like it is favorable.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on August 31, 2008, 01:10:56 PM
Sunday - August 31, 2008

Obama - 48% (-1)
McCain - 42% (+1)

So he got a three to six point bounce. Not bad for McCain.

And, it's the weekend, probably a bit inflated for Obama in this poll.  Palin still isn't completely in the mix, but it looks like it is favorable.

Considering the day that was dropped saw a 5 point shift to Obama, only losing 2 is not exactly terrible


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Meeker on September 01, 2008, 12:07:24 PM
Monday - September 1st, 2008

Obama - 49% (+1)
McCain - 43% (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CPT MikeyMike on September 01, 2008, 12:09:16 PM
Some additional notes...

Comparing Obama's current 49% support with the 45% he received immediately before the start of the Democratic National Convention in Denver last week suggests he received a 4-point bounce out of the convention, fairly typical of past convention bounces. Aside from the past few days, Obama has only once previously attained 49% support from national voters, and that was in late July.

The determination of this year's Democratic convention bounce is complicated by the fact that McCain announced his pick for vice president -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin -- on the first morning after the convention, thus diverting considerable media attention to the McCain campaign that otherwise would have been focused on recapping the Democratic convention and Obama's Thursday night acceptance speech. However, even using Friday's Gallup Poll Daily tracking report as the indicator of Obama's convention bounce produces the same result. Obama was preferred by 49% of registered voters in Gallup Poll Daily tracking from Aug. 26-28, after the Democratic National Convention was underway, but before the Palin choice was made public.

Given this year's unusually condensed convention and vice presidential selection calendar, today's tracking report also represents the first three days following McCain's vice presidential announcement. McCain's 43% level of support in today's report contrasts with 41% supporting McCain right before the Palin choice was revealed, giving McCain a 2-point vice presidential selection bounce.

While lower than typical vice presidential selection bounces, McCain's 2-point vice-presidential bounce is technically better than the complete lack of a vice presidential bounce seen for Obama with his selection of Delaware Sen. Joe Biden on Aug. 23. However, from a statistical standpoint, both shifts are within the margin of sampling error, and thus not significant.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 02, 2008, 12:04:56 PM
Tuesday - September 2, 2008

Obama 50% (+1)
McCain 42% (-1)



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Dan the Roman on September 02, 2008, 12:05:16 PM
Tuesday, September 2, 2008

Obama 50% (+1)
McCain 42% (-1)



Continued Palin bounce.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 02, 2008, 12:05:23 PM
Tuesday, September 2, 2008

Obama 50% (+1)
McCain 42% (-1)



Where's the Palin bounce? :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on September 02, 2008, 12:06:07 PM
Tuesday, September 2, 2008

Obama 50% (+1)
McCain 42% (-1)



Where's the Palin bounce? :)

It's the hurricane. Republicans aren't home to answer the phones.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on September 02, 2008, 12:19:12 PM
Tuesday, September 2, 2008

Obama 50% (+1)
McCain 42% (-1)



Where's the Palin bounce? :)

It's the hurricane. Republicans aren't home to answer the phones.

In a national poll... there arent that many republicans in the gulf states... remember, even at their max, their only 60% of four states... not exactly a big deal.

Still, 2pt shift is small enough to just be an artifact of Labor day polling


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 02, 2008, 12:21:30 PM
Numbers-wise, Gallup's day sample today looks pretty similar to Rasmussen's - probably somewhere in-between O+11 and O+13 after being O+6 the past couple of days.  Obama should probably move up tomorrow slightly, depending on how much movement there is tomorrow.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 02, 2008, 01:16:21 PM
Tuesday, September 2, 2008

Obama 50% (+1)
McCain 42% (-1)



Where's the Palin bounce? :)

It's the hurricane. Republicans aren't home to answer the phones.

In a national poll... there arent that many republicans in the gulf states... remember, even at their max, their only 60% of four states... not exactly a big deal.

Still, 2pt shift is small enough to just be an artifact of Labor day polling

Or a weekend one on this poll.  It might have been an early bounce for Palin that left.  As I've said, wait for the 15th.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 02, 2008, 01:56:52 PM
Here comes the "OMG Palin is kind of a joke" bounce.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 02, 2008, 03:29:22 PM
Both Gallup and Rasmussen show Obama at 50% for the first time. Good job Sarah.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 02, 2008, 03:41:17 PM
Both Gallup and Rasmussen show Obama at 50% for the first time. Good job Sarah.

Let's wait a bid.  The early ones showed just the opposite, and we do have severa days worth showing Obama's numbers dropping after the Biden selection.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 02, 2008, 03:43:25 PM
Both Gallup and Rasmussen show Obama at 50% for the first time. Good job Sarah.

Let's wait a bid.  The early ones showed just the opposite, and we do have severa days worth showing Obama's numbers dropping after the Biden selection.
That was a temporary reaction from Clinton supporters, that was to be expected. Bill and Hilary's forceful and enthusiastic endorsements of Obama at the convention pushed a lot of those same angered Clinton supporters back to Obama, where I think they're likely to stay (especially after McCain's insulting attempt at pandering to them with Palin).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 02, 2008, 04:36:37 PM
Both Gallup and Rasmussen show Obama at 50% for the first time. Good job Sarah.

Let's wait a bid.  The early ones showed just the opposite, and we do have severa days worth showing Obama's numbers dropping after the Biden selection.
That was a temporary reaction from Clinton supporters, that was to be expected. Bill and Hilary's forceful and enthusiastic endorsements of Obama at the convention pushed a lot of those same angered Clinton supporters back to Obama, where I think they're likely to stay (especially after McCain's insulting attempt at pandering to them with Palin).

One day, or even two (considering there is a convention bump) is not enough to make the judgment (it took me four days for Biden).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 02, 2008, 05:03:39 PM
Palin seems to be the new Alan Keyes.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 03, 2008, 12:25:44 AM
Remember how Obama was going to turn off so many voters by giving his acceptance speech in a stadium?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on September 03, 2008, 12:39:11 AM
Shh....don't tell Borat about her anti-semitism. He might try to make rape on her.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: patrick1 on September 03, 2008, 12:43:50 AM
Shh....don't tell Borat about her anti-semitism. He might try to make rape on her.

Do you write those bad jokes for your law review?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 03, 2008, 09:50:36 AM
I really want to see this one today.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 03, 2008, 12:05:15 PM
Wednesday - September 3, 2008

Obama - 49% (-1)
McCain - 43% (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 03, 2008, 12:07:46 PM
Wednesday - September 3, 2008

Obama - 49% (-1)
McCain - 43% (+1)

This latest rolling average probably does not reflect much impact of the delayed opening of the Republican National Convention now underway in St. Paul, Minn. There was little convention activity Monday night due to Hurricane Gustav, and interviewing on Tuesday was, to a large degree, completed before the major prime time speeches at the convention were televised, particularly in the Midwest and Eastern portions of the country. A review of last week's tracking during the Democratic convention shows that Obama did not begin to show major gains until the tracking averages reported on Thursday, covering the first three nights of the Denver convention. So it is possible that any potential McCain convention bounce may not be evident for a few days.

More specifically, there appears to be a great deal of anticipation for the prime time debut of the Republican vice presidential nominee, Gov. Sarah Palin, on Wednesday night. It is possible that her speech could receive record ratings as Americans tune in to find out more about the woman who was largely unknown until last week and who has dominated news coverage since her selection last Friday. Then, of course, McCain himself makes his acceptance speech on Thursday night. The potential impact of the Palin and McCain speeches may not be seen in the tracking data until the weekend.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 03, 2008, 12:08:56 PM
Wednesday - September 3, 2008

Obama - 49% (-1)
McCain - 43% (+1)

Well that's no fun. I guess the bounce is starting to wear off a little.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on September 03, 2008, 12:11:24 PM
Wednesday - September 3, 2008

Obama - 49% (-1)
McCain - 43% (+1)

Well that's no fun. I guess the bounce is starting to wear off a little.

look, all the polls over Labor Day weekend should be ignored.  We won't know anything until late next week.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 03, 2008, 12:23:50 PM
Wednesday - September 3, 2008

Obama - 49% (-1)
McCain - 43% (+1)

Well that's no fun. I guess the bounce is starting to wear off a little.

look, all the polls over Labor Day weekend should be ignored.  We won't know anything until late next week.

McCain will probably still be experiencing his convention bounce then... :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on September 03, 2008, 12:26:12 PM
Wednesday - September 3, 2008

Obama - 49% (-1)
McCain - 43% (+1)

Well that's no fun. I guess the bounce is starting to wear off a little.

look, all the polls over Labor Day weekend should be ignored.  We won't know anything until late next week.

McCain will probably still be experiencing his convention bounce then... :P

then wait another week.  but Labor Day weekend is a terrible time to poll


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 03, 2008, 12:27:41 PM
Wednesday - September 3, 2008

Obama - 49% (-1)
McCain - 43% (+1)

Well that's no fun. I guess the bounce is starting to wear off a little.

Bingo, which why I've been saying wait until 9/15 or so.  There will probably be a GOP bounce.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 03, 2008, 12:30:38 PM
Obama Gains Overall, McCain Among GOP Women [2 Septemer, 2008]

McCain manages to increase support among women of his own party

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109975/Obama-Gains-Overall-McCain-Among-GOP-Women.aspx

Support for Presidential Candidates, by Gender among non-Hispanic white registered voters

Men

Aug 30-Sep 1: Obama 40%; McCain 53% [Aug 1-28: Obama 35%; McCain 56%]

Women

Aug 30-Sep 1: Obama 44%; McCain 48% [Aug 1-28: Obama 42%; McCain 46%]

Support for Presidential Candidates, by Gender and Party among non-Hispanic white registered voters

Men

Republican (Aug 30-Sep 1): Obama 6%; McCain 90% [Aug 1-28: Obama 7%; McCain 89%]
Independent (Aug 30-Sep 1): Obama 42%; McCain 47% [Aug 1-28: Obama 35%; McCain 51%]
Democrat (Aug 30-Sep 1): Obama 82%; McCain 13% [Aug 1-28: Obama 74%; McCain 18%]

Women

Republican (Aug 30-Sep 1): Obama 7%; McCain 90% [Aug 1-28: Obama 8%; McCain 85%]
Independent (Aug 30-Sep 1): Obama 46%; McCain 39% [Aug 1-28: Obama 41%; McCain 42%]
Democrat (Aug 30-Sep 1): Obama 82%; McCain 13% [Aug 1-28: Obama 74%; McCain 15%]

Gallup Poll Daily tracking, 2008

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 03, 2008, 12:31:52 PM
Ya, looks like the Labor Day sample on both Rasmussen and Gallup has definitely not continued into today.  This sample was at maximum Obama +2 to +4 and it might even be tied (hard to tell).  The Labor Day sample falls off Friday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on September 03, 2008, 01:00:37 PM
Tonight is probably a more major event then McCains speech. But that's pretty much obvious as we all here know.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Umengus on September 03, 2008, 01:53:33 PM
This bounce business tired me. In one week, it will be +- tie.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on September 03, 2008, 03:11:29 PM
Did they stop state polling the past two weeks?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 03, 2008, 04:45:36 PM
Will the Abortion Issue Help or Hurt McCain? [3 September, 2008]

Women divide 50% pro-choice, 43% pro-life

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110002/Will-Abortion-Issue-Help-Hurt-McCain.aspx

Abortion Stance Among Women, by Party ID

All: Pro-choice 50%; Pro-life 43%

Republican: Pro-choice 32%; Pro-life 63%
Independent: Pro-choice 51%; Pro-life 40%
Democrat: Pro-choice 57%; Pro-life 37%

Effect of Abortion Issue on Americans' Vote for Major Offices

13% say that candidate must share their views on abortion (Rep 20%; Ind 8%; Dem 14%)

49% say that abortion is one of many important factors (Rep 53%; Ind 56%; Dem 46%)

37% say abortion is not a major issue for them (Rep 25%; Ind 32%; Dem 39%)

2% No opinion

 May 8-11, 2008

Preferential Preference Among Women, by Party ID

All: Obama 52%; McCain 40%

Republican: Obama 7%; McCain 89%
Independent: Obama 50%; McCain 36%
Democrat: Obama 84%; McCain 9%

 Gallup Poll Daily tracking, Aug. 31 - Sep. 2

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 03, 2008, 06:49:05 PM
Only 50% of women are Pro Choice and 43% are Pro Life? I wish.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: riceowl on September 03, 2008, 07:32:42 PM
i buy it.  i seem to remember it being almost even last time we saw a poll like this.  (the pro-life/choice)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 03, 2008, 08:04:04 PM
Only 50% of women are Pro Choice and 43% are Pro Life? I wish.

But as an issue it's only the be all and end all for 13% of them


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 04, 2008, 10:38:34 AM
Only 50% of women are Pro Choice and 43% are Pro Life? I wish.

Yeah, that's pretty absurd.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 04, 2008, 11:04:53 AM
Only 50% of women are Pro Choice and 43% are Pro Life? I wish.

Yeah, that's pretty absurd.

It depends how you define the terms.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 04, 2008, 12:05:59 PM
Obama/Biden: 49 (NC)
McCain/Palin: 42 (-1)

Still no bump from the GOP convention.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 04, 2008, 12:06:37 PM
Thursday - September 4, 2008

Obama - 49% (nc)
McCain - 42% (-1)

The results are based on interviewing conducted Sept. 1-3. The vast majority of interviews on Wednesday evening were conducted before Sarah Palin gave her much-anticipated convention speech. However, the data do indicate that the initial first two nights of the convention -- the slimmed down Monday program in deference to Hurricane Gustav and Tuesday's speeches headlined by former senator Fred Thompson -- have, so far, done little to change voter preferences.

Thursday's interviewing will be the first to reflect the immediate impact of Palin's speech, and the coming days will give a truer measure of the effect the GOP convention -- including McCain's acceptance speech tonight -- is having on voters. Obama got a four percentage point increase in his share of the vote in Gallup Poll Daily tracking coming out of the Democratic convention last week, establishing a lead over McCain after the two had been exactly tied immediately prior to last week's convention.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Meeker on September 04, 2008, 12:07:15 PM
Lieberman and Thompson were apparently very helpful.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 04, 2008, 12:08:46 PM

Don't count your chckens and hope that there won't be


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 04, 2008, 12:11:16 PM
Lieberman and Thompson were apparently very helpful.

Putting those two amazing showmen on in primetime was clearly a stroke of genius.

Anyway, they should start to be a tad concerned if they don't start moving up a little bit by tomorrow. I won't be though! :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 04, 2008, 12:14:02 PM

Don't count your chckens and hope that there won't be

^^^^^^^^^^^


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: KeyKeeper on September 04, 2008, 12:15:46 PM
Lets see what the numbers look like on Monday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 04, 2008, 12:16:34 PM
As in contrast to Rasmussen, McCain's sample today was slightly worse to what we had before (the sample that dropped off here was an Obama +4 to +5 sample, around the same as Rasmussen).  Nevertheless, McCain will almost assuredly move at least a couple of points closer tomorrow once the Labor Day sample drops off tomorrow (as it was at least Obama +11).  It could be more.  We'll see.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 04, 2008, 12:40:22 PM
Wednesday - September 4, 2008

Obama - 49% (nc)
McCain - 42% (-1)

Labor Day's throwing people off. It's Thursday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on September 04, 2008, 01:25:29 PM
So far, so good. I expect Obama's lead to be down to 4% by tomorrow or Saturday. Otherwise, it would be troubling for McCain.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck on September 04, 2008, 01:49:31 PM
The GOP is already completely behind McCain.... and most independents are smart enough to see through Palin's garbage. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on September 04, 2008, 01:53:54 PM
The GOP is already completely behind McCain.... and most independents are smart enough to see through Palin's garbage. 

Yeah, because she's in your words "a dumb c*nt".


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 04, 2008, 02:08:03 PM
The GOP is already completely behind McCain.... and most independents are smart enough to see through Palin's garbage. 

94% of conservatives are behind McCain, according to Gallup. And he is still behind by 7%.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on September 04, 2008, 02:56:53 PM
give it a few days... though it is instructive that both Ras and Gallup show little movement, buy this time last week Obama had gained 5 points in the spread.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 04, 2008, 03:26:55 PM
Pretty soon McCain will realize that Palin, while awesome at solidifying conservatives behind the most far-right major party ticket since Goldwater, isn't doing a great job of wooing independents and Democrats. And if McCain doesn't significantly cut into Obama's numbers with indies and dems, he's screwed.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on September 04, 2008, 03:28:35 PM
Pretty soon McCain will realize that Palin, while awesome at solidifying conservatives behind the most far-right major party ticket since Goldwater, isn't doing a great job of wooing independents and Democrats. And if McCain doesn't significantly cut into Obama's numbers with indies and dems, he's screwed.

Bush won in 2004 without Democrats and Indies. Bush 2004 and McCain 2008 are all about turning out the fundie base.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reaganfan on September 04, 2008, 03:29:46 PM
Pretty soon McCain will realize that Palin, while awesome at solidifying conservatives behind the most far-right major party ticket since Goldwater, isn't doing a great job of wooing independents and Democrats. And if McCain doesn't significantly cut into Obama's numbers with indies and dems, he's screwed.

Bush won in 2004 without Democrats and Indies. Bush 2004 and McCain 2008 are all about turning out the fundie base.

Bush was elected by getting just about all of the Republican vote, and then a few independents and democrats. McCain can do the same, and win.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on September 04, 2008, 03:30:53 PM
Bush was elected by getting just about all of the Republican vote, and then a few independents and democrats. McCain can do the same, and win.

McCain pulling the same share of Democrats, Republicans and independents would mean he'd lose by a couple of points.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 04, 2008, 03:31:24 PM
Pretty soon McCain will realize that Palin, while awesome at solidifying conservatives behind the most far-right major party ticket since Goldwater, isn't doing a great job of wooing independents and Democrats. And if McCain doesn't significantly cut into Obama's numbers with indies and dems, he's screwed.

Bush won in 2004 without Democrats and Indies. Bush 2004 and McCain 2008 are all about turning out the fundie base.

Yes, and all McCain would have to do to make that work is recreate the macro conditions of 2004 for the Republicans while making Obama do worse than Kerry in connecting to voters.

Palin absolutely stopped the bleeding, as someone said last night. Where they go from here, remains to be seen. They don't win with a 2004 strategy any more than Gore could win with a 1996 strategy.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 04, 2008, 04:01:15 PM
Pretty soon McCain will realize that Palin, while awesome at solidifying conservatives behind the most far-right major party ticket since Goldwater, isn't doing a great job of wooing independents and Democrats. And if McCain doesn't significantly cut into Obama's numbers with indies and dems, he's screwed.

Bush won in 2004 without Democrats and Indies. Bush 2004 and McCain 2008 are all about turning out the fundie base.

Bush was elected by getting just about all of the Republican vote, and then a few independents and democrats. McCain can do the same, and win.
Not unless something major (as in out of McCain and Obama's control) happens between now and November that completely changes the dynamics of the race.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 04, 2008, 04:09:31 PM
By this weekend, I expect Obama to lead by 3 or something.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 05, 2008, 06:35:37 AM
Bush was elected by getting just about all of the Republican vote, and then a few independents and democrats. McCain can do the same, and win.

McCain pulling the same share of Democrats, Republicans and independents would mean he'd lose by a couple of points.

McCain may well win independents, nationally, in 2008 thanks to former Republicans embarrassed out of the party by George W Bush but sympathetic to the man of myth

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 05, 2008, 06:49:41 AM
Religion Remains Major Dividing Factor Among White Voters [5 September, 2008]

Patterns similar to 2004

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110053/Religion-Remains-Major-Dividing-Factor-Among-White-Voters.aspx

Gallup Daily Tracking Polling Results, by Church Attendance Among Non-Hispanic whites

Attend church weekly: Obama 26%  (Kerry 27%)  / McCain 65%  (Bush 66%)

Attend church weekly/monthly: Obama 41%  (Kerry 36%)  / McCain 50%  (Bush 62%)

Attend church seldom/never: Obama 51%  (Kerry 53%)  / McCain 39%  (Bush 40%)

Based on weekly averages of Gallup Poll Daily tracking Sept. 1-3
 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll Oct 29-31, 2004

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: KeyKeeper on September 05, 2008, 07:19:55 AM
We will know on Monday if John McCain had a good bump in the polls or not. Also the debates will play a big part in the polls too. So this thing is long from over.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck on September 05, 2008, 11:55:43 AM
The GOP is already completely behind McCain.... and most independents are smart enough to see through Palin's garbage. 

Yeah, because she's in your words "a dumb c*nt".

yup


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 05, 2008, 12:05:09 PM
Friday - September 5, 2008

Obama - 48% (-1)
McCain - 44% (+2)

While the difference between today's result and Thursday's 49% to 42% lead for Obama is not statistically significant, some of the broader shifts seen over the past 10 days, spanning both party's national conventions, have been meaningful.

Support for Obama since just before the Democratic National Convention kicked off on Aug. 25 has ranged from 44% to 50%, while McCain's support has ranged from 41% to 46%. Whereas the race was initially tied at 45%, Obama pulled into an eight-point lead at several points over the course of his convention. It now appears the Republican National Convention may be helping McCain to recoup some of his losses, though with Obama's current four-point lead, the entire convention period to this point has still been a net plus for Obama. (To view the complete trend since March 7, 2008, click here.)

While both conventions are now over, measurement of public reaction to them is not. Results, based on interviewing conducted Sept. 2-4, include just one day of interviewing conducted after Wednesday night's widely viewed acceptance speech by McCain's vice presidential running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. Most interviewing Thursday night was conducted before McCain's acceptance speech, so Gallup Poll Daily tracking results will start to reflect its impact in Saturday's report. The full impact of the GOP convention on voter preferences will not be known until Monday's report, the first in which all interviews will have been conducted following the convention's conclusion.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 05, 2008, 01:14:44 PM
It seems like Obama is holding up about as well as you could expect, so far.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 05, 2008, 01:19:53 PM
It seems like Obama is holding up about as well as you could expect, so far.

No, that is only a one day sample after Palin's speech.

Monday for the bump, but check out the numbers for Thursday or Friday of next week.  We'll have some idea at this point.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on September 05, 2008, 01:21:50 PM
It seems like Obama is holding up about as well as you could expect, so far.

No, that is only a one day sample after Palin's speech.

Monday for the bump, but check out the numbers for Thursday or Friday of next week.  We'll have some idea at this point.

All we need is a new CO poll in the next 2 weeks and PPP will provide one.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 05, 2008, 01:32:35 PM
Ya, I agree with JJ on this point as to what and when to check.  Tuesday is also as good as Monday, really.

Strangely enough, I also do agree with him that there appears to be a continual mid-week/weekend bias for the two candidates, though I really have no clue how important it is.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on September 05, 2008, 01:46:40 PM
Bush was elected by getting just about all of the Republican vote, and then a few independents and democrats. McCain can do the same, and win.

McCain pulling the same share of Democrats, Republicans and independents would mean he'd lose by a couple of points.

But I thought this is a "center right" country. :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 05, 2008, 01:48:23 PM
Ya, I agree with JJ on this point as to what and when to check.  Tuesday is also as good as Monday, really.

Strangely enough, I also do agree with him that there appears to be a continual mid-week/weekend bias for the two candidates, though I really have no clue how important it is.

The weekend/weekday bounce seems limited to Gallup.  I think, based on that, it is their sample selection.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on September 05, 2008, 01:49:08 PM
Question for those who know the history better than me: Has any candidate ever won an election in which they were tied or behind immediately after their own convention? I'm quite sure it's never happened, except possibly for Truman in 1948 (when polling was obviously not at the level of accuracy it is today).

I'd think this is basically McCain's goal at this point as to what kind of a bounce he needs.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Dan the Roman on September 05, 2008, 02:00:14 PM
Question for those who know the history better than me: Has any candidate ever won an election in which they were tied or behind immediately after their own convention? I'm quite sure it's never happened, except possibly for Truman in 1948 (when polling was obviously not at the level of accuracy it is today).

I'd think this is basically McCain's goal at this point as to what kind of a bounce he needs.

I think Reagan was behind in a number of polls after his convention. That said, the polls that year were very similar to this one with both candidates in the mid to low forties. I believe going into the debates Carter was up something like 47-43.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on September 05, 2008, 02:01:43 PM
I think Obama will maintain a 2% lead coming out of this thing. That will mean that McCain's last oppurtunity is the debates. The only asset in the debates is Biden. The only liability, Palin.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 05, 2008, 02:11:07 PM
Question for those who know the history better than me: Has any candidate ever won an election in which they were tied or behind immediately after their own convention? I'm quite sure it's never happened, except possibly for Truman in 1948 (when polling was obviously not at the level of accuracy it is today).

I'd think this is basically McCain's goal at this point as to what kind of a bounce he needs.

I think it will be had to measure this.  Obama was tied, or down by 1-2 going into this.  He was up by between 0-8 points after the DNC, when Palin was announced and RNC started.



I think Reagan was behind in a number of polls after his convention. That said, the polls that year were very similar to this one with both candidates in the mid to low forties. I believe going into the debates Carter was up something like 47-43.

Reagan was at 45, Carter at 29, after the 1980 RNC; Carter had 39, Reagan 38, after the DNC.  It was, if anything, less clear than 2008.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: KeyKeeper on September 05, 2008, 02:17:16 PM
Also, not only do you have to look at National polls, but State polls too. Because it is all about the EV not the PV. I believe come Nov. 1st if McCain is with in 2% of Obama, Obama will not win the election.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on September 05, 2008, 02:36:12 PM
Infomania: last few days were Obama +1, Obama +7 and Obama +4.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 05, 2008, 02:37:36 PM
Infomania: last few days were Obama +1, Obama +7 and Obama +4.

Sounds about right.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 05, 2008, 02:40:36 PM
Infomania: last few days were Obama +1, Obama +7 and Obama +4.

Sounds about right.

We had the CBS poll at +8 on 9/1.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on September 05, 2008, 02:41:59 PM
Infomania: last few days were Obama +1, Obama +7 and Obama +4.

Sounds about right.

We had the CBS poll at +8 on 9/1.

Right?  9/1 was a strong day for Obama in the tracking polls too (+11 on Rasmussen, +10 on Gallup)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on September 05, 2008, 02:42:23 PM
Infomania: last few days were Obama +1, Obama +7 and Obama +4.

Is that reverse order or actual order? (Was Obama +1 yesterday or Tuesday?)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 05, 2008, 02:43:41 PM
Infomania: last few days were Obama +1, Obama +7 and Obama +4.

Is that reverse order or actual order? (Was Obama +1 yesterday or Tuesday?)

The O+1 would have almost certainly been yesterday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on September 05, 2008, 02:44:38 PM
Infomania: last few days were Obama +1, Obama +7 and Obama +4.

Is that reverse order or actual order? (Was Obama +1 yesterday or Tuesday?)

The O+1 would have almost certainly been yesterday.

Yeah, sorry.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on September 05, 2008, 03:11:41 PM
Question for those who know the history better than me: Has any candidate ever won an election in which they were tied or behind immediately after their own convention? I'm quite sure it's never happened, except possibly for Truman in 1948 (when polling was obviously not at the level of accuracy it is today).

I'd think this is basically McCain's goal at this point as to what kind of a bounce he needs.

I think Reagan was behind in a number of polls after his convention. That said, the polls that year were very similar to this one with both candidates in the mid to low forties. I believe going into the debates Carter was up something like 47-43.

I was referring to being behind immediately after the convention, not behind at any point after the convention.

Reagan had a pretty big convention bounce in the Gallup poll and had a pretty substantial lead at that point as I recall.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on September 05, 2008, 03:13:09 PM
Question for those who know the history better than me: Has any candidate ever won an election in which they were tied or behind immediately after their own convention? I'm quite sure it's never happened, except possibly for Truman in 1948 (when polling was obviously not at the level of accuracy it is today).

I'd think this is basically McCain's goal at this point as to what kind of a bounce he needs.

I think it will be had to measure this.  Obama was tied, or down by 1-2 going into this.  He was up by between 0-8 points after the DNC, when Palin was announced and RNC started.



I think Reagan was behind in a number of polls after his convention. That said, the polls that year were very similar to this one with both candidates in the mid to low forties. I believe going into the debates Carter was up something like 47-43.

Reagan was at 45, Carter at 29, after the 1980 RNC; Carter had 39, Reagan 38, after the DNC.  It was, if anything, less clear than 2008.

Ah, thanks. Last post was made before I read this one.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 05, 2008, 03:23:48 PM
day-to-day, per 538:

()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 05, 2008, 03:53:32 PM
Trying to figure out the day by day totals of the tracking polls is nothing but guesswork.

You are basing assumptions off of assumptions. You are assuming that you know what the day rolling off is, in order to determine what the new day coming on is. After days upon days of guesswork, the margin of error becomes very large, thus putting those numbers in high doubt.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on September 05, 2008, 05:37:10 PM
Trying to figure out the day by day totals of the tracking polls is nothing but guesswork.

You are basing assumptions off of assumptions. You are assuming that you know what the day rolling off is, in order to determine what the new day coming on is. After days upon days of guesswork, the margin of error becomes very large, thus putting those numbers in high doubt.

That doesn't make any mathematical sense at all.  It's a three-day rolling average.  It's the margins of the days divided by three.  You can stagger it (I'm sure, because I've done it before, I just don't remember how) and determine the approximate daily average within a small range.

Margin of error?  what?  Margin of error is a sampling issue; it has nothing to do with calculating poll averages like this.  And there may be errors, but they will average out -- otherwise the rolling average would be significantly off.  Since it's based on rolling average, that isn't possible.

It's not exact (there are rounding issues) but it isn't "guesswork."


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 05, 2008, 05:47:25 PM
The bounce is not enough for my liking.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 05, 2008, 05:54:42 PM
Trying to figure out the day by day totals of the tracking polls is nothing but guesswork.

You are basing assumptions off of assumptions. You are assuming that you know what the day rolling off is, in order to determine what the new day coming on is. After days upon days of guesswork, the margin of error becomes very large, thus putting those numbers in high doubt.

If by "guesswork" you mean a mathematical algorithm, then I agree.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 05, 2008, 06:00:02 PM
The bounce is not enough for my liking.

It will go away soon after the convention.

It must be very worrying to the McCain campaign that despite all the hoopla and excitement regarding Sarah Palin and how she might as well get her curtains measured in the White House, that McCain is very likely to see a lead that is beyond the margin of error, or even a lead at all.

This is the high point of the presidential cycle for the GOP this election cycle.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: JohnCA246 on September 05, 2008, 08:38:06 PM
well it's way to early to tell, but Obama certainly got a bigger day after bounce.  Still, got to wait a few days to tell who won the battle of the conventions.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on September 06, 2008, 03:52:46 AM
Trying to figure out the day by day totals of the tracking polls is nothing but guesswork.

You are basing assumptions off of assumptions. You are assuming that you know what the day rolling off is, in order to determine what the new day coming on is. After days upon days of guesswork, the margin of error becomes very large, thus putting those numbers in high doubt.

That doesn't make any mathematical sense at all.  It's a three-day rolling average.  It's the margins of the days divided by three.  You can stagger it (I'm sure, because I've done it before, I just don't remember how) and determine the approximate daily average within a small range.

Margin of error?  what?  Margin of error is a sampling issue; it has nothing to do with calculating poll averages like this.  And there may be errors, but they will average out -- otherwise the rolling average would be significantly off.  Since it's based on rolling average, that isn't possible.

It's not exact (there are rounding issues) but it isn't "guesswork."

Breaking it down here:
The average for the last three days is of course no guesswork at all.
Individual days include a portion of guesswork o/c, although the longer the time frame you use, the better it should get.
The difference between one day and the day three days previously is no guesswork at all.
Very large bounces are of course going to be readily apparent with no major guesswork involved.

ie, if you assume that the 23rd and 24th were actually both McCain +1, that gives
25th McCain +4, 26th Obama +8, 27th Obama +14, 28th Obama +2, 29th Obama +8, etc. Stretch it across a long timeline, compare with events and assumptions about a trend for Obama to poll better on weekends, and you should be able to come up with a highly reasonable assumption at what's most likely.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 06, 2008, 12:01:00 PM
Saturday - September 6, 2008

Obama - 47% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 06, 2008, 12:02:17 PM
The bounce is not enough for my liking.

It will go away soon after the convention.

It must be very worrying to the McCain campaign that despite all the hoopla and excitement regarding Sarah Palin and how she might as well get her curtains measured in the White House, that McCain is very likely to see a lead that is beyond the margin of error, or even a lead at all.

This is the high point of the presidential cycle for the GOP this election cycle.

Too bad the bounce isn't over yet.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 06, 2008, 12:03:52 PM
Straightforward math would tell us today's sample was somewhere around McCain +1 to McCain +3 given the graph posted above.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on September 06, 2008, 12:10:28 PM
Straightforward math would tell us today's sample was somewhere around McCain +1 to McCain +3 given the graph posted above.

More like a tie to M+2. (7+1+0)/3 = 2.333, (7+1-1)/3 = 2, (7+1-2)/3 = 1.667. M+3 would give an Obama lead of 1. Of course, allowing for the possibility that O+7 and O+1 are rounded, it could be anywhere from O+2 to M+3.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 06, 2008, 12:14:42 PM
Straightforward math would tell us today's sample was somewhere around McCain +1 to McCain +3 given the graph posted above.

More like a tie to M+2. (7+1+0)/3 = 2.333, (7+1-1)/3 = 2, (7+1-2)/3 = 1.667. M+3 would give an Obama lead of 1. Of course, allowing for the possibility that O+7 and O+1 are rounded, it could be anywhere from O+2 to M+3.

Ya, that's right.  Anyway, please continue to be patient...  :)

EDIT:  If Wed is O+7 and Thurs is O+1, then M+3 on Friday, would give you 5/3 = 1.667.  So, my number is right, so long as those numbers are right.  We should have a better feeling by Monday at the earliest, Thursday at the latest, IMHO.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on September 06, 2008, 12:24:56 PM
Straightforward math would tell us today's sample was somewhere around McCain +1 to McCain +3 given the graph posted above.

More like a tie to M+2. (7+1+0)/3 = 2.333, (7+1-1)/3 = 2, (7+1-2)/3 = 1.667. M+3 would give an Obama lead of 1. Of course, allowing for the possibility that O+7 and O+1 are rounded, it could be anywhere from O+2 to M+3.

Ya, that's right.  Anyway, please continue to be patient...  :)

EDIT:  If Wed is O+7 and Thurs is O+1, then M+3 on Friday, would give you 5/3 = 1.667.  So, my number is right, so long as those numbers are right.  We should have a better feeling by Monday at the earliest, Thursday at the latest, IMHO.

Wait, you're right. My math sucks. Sorry.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 06, 2008, 03:55:51 PM
Since everyone here seems to like and respect him (even though I retain my doubts), this is what Nate Silver says Gallup and Rasmussen look like:

Gallup
Wednesday: Obama +7.8
Thursday: Obama +2.4
Friday: McCain +4.2

Rasmussen
Wednesday: Obama +4.9
Thursday: Obama +3.8
Friday: Obama +0.3

More on his opinion here:

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/09/06/today-s-polls-the-bounce-cometh.aspx


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CPT MikeyMike on September 07, 2008, 12:12:56 PM
Sunday - September 7, 2008

McCain - 48% (+3)
Obama - 45% (-2)

These results are based on Sept. 4-6 interviewing, and include two full days of polling after the conclusion of the Republican National Convention last Thursday night. McCain has outpolled Obama on both Friday and Saturday, and is receiving a convention bounce just as Obama did last week.

Tomorrow's report will be the first in which all interviews were conducted after the conclusion of the convention. Gallup measures convention bounces by comparing candidate support in the last poll done entirely before a party's presidential nominating convention begins with the first polling conducted entirely after its conclusion.

McCain's 48% share of the vote ties for his largest since Gallup tracking began in early March. He registered the same level of support in early May. This is also McCain's largest advantage over Obama since early May, when he led by as much as six percentage points. Obama has led McCain for most of the campaign, and for nearly all of the time since clinching the Democratic nomination in early June.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 07, 2008, 12:13:12 PM
Yeah, baby!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on September 07, 2008, 12:16:33 PM
NoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This.... this can't be happening...! Gah!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 07, 2008, 12:21:05 PM
NoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This.... this can't be happening...! Gah!

The best part is that the bounce isn't even over yet!!!!!  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 07, 2008, 12:24:30 PM
If Silver is right, this means Saturday's numbers were somewhere in the ballpark of McCain +7 (+1 or -1).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 07, 2008, 12:26:35 PM
At first, I thought it said Obama up three!

This is great.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 07, 2008, 12:28:21 PM
At first, I thought it said Obama up three!

This is great.

Yeah, if McCain holds onto these numbers until election day, he may be able to put PA into play.

I doubt it, though. :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rococo4 on September 07, 2008, 12:47:54 PM
Since everyone here seems to like and respect him (even though I retain my doubts), this is what Nate Silver says Gallup and Rasmussen look like:

Gallup
Wednesday: Obama +7.8
Thursday: Obama +2.4
Friday: McCain +4.2

Rasmussen
Wednesday: Obama +4.9
Thursday: Obama +3.8
Friday: Obama +0.3

More on his opinion here:

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/09/06/today-s-polls-the-bounce-cometh.aspx

the guy knows no more than anyone here.....


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 07, 2008, 12:58:12 PM
The Republicans are never going to own their failure. The sheer thought that a president can leave his country in worse shape than he found it and see his party rewarded with a third term is bad enough

Part of the reason I'm supporting Obama is that he is a Democrat, and what with America being a center-right nation in that conservatives outnumber liberals 3 to 2, he knows that if he is elected he has to govern competently and deliver on his promises otherwise he'll be out in 2012. McCain could just come in be as good as hapless yet stand an even chance of winning re-election in four years time. Seen it all happen with Bush

There's no accountability. Imagine just how prosperous and respected America would have been now had Bush never been elected

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 07, 2008, 12:59:35 PM
The Republicans are never going to own their failure.

Uh huh. And the disaster known as the Democratic "leadership" in the 110th Congress is only going to see their majority expand.  ::)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 07, 2008, 01:08:21 PM
McCain being a third Bush term is simply a false statement.  I mean, even if he tried to be a third Bush term, he couldn't be one, just because of the large majority the Democrats will have in congress.  If he truly was another Bush term, I don't think I would be able to support him.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Vsanto5 on September 07, 2008, 01:18:20 PM
Honestly its about time McCain lead in Gallup since May, but I think most people that said I'am voting for this guy is just to pay tribute to his service in Vietnam not to actually vote for him come November.  I think most Americans would say what is on their minds that day. 

I mean if Hillary was against McCain, I still think McCain would see a huge bounce from his convention.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 07, 2008, 01:22:43 PM
Honestly its about time McCain lead in Gallup since May, but I think most people that said I'am voting for this guy is just to pay tribute to his service in Vietnam not to actually vote for him come November.  I think most Americans would say what is on their minds that day. 

I mean if Hillary was against McCain, I still think McCain would see a huge bounce from his convention.

Well, we shall see.  I think that there will be plenty of people that would support Obama until the last minute as well.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 07, 2008, 01:27:46 PM
It's the bounce.  It might actually get bigger by a point or two. 

We have to wait until mid to late week.

If McCain is up by three next weekend, I'll be overjoyed.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on September 07, 2008, 01:52:59 PM
Its sad to see Gallup is in bed with the right wing media.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on September 07, 2008, 02:02:12 PM
I guess people like the economy.

McCain being a third Bush term is simply a false statement.  I mean, even if he tried to be a third Bush term, he couldn't be one, just because of the large majority the Democrats will have in congress.  If he truly was another Bush term, I don't think I would be able to support him.

You mean the ones that have completely failed to stand up to Bush? I'm sure they'll stand up to a more popular McCain when he pushes for the same extreme agenda.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: pragmatic liberal on September 07, 2008, 02:27:59 PM
McCain will probably lead several polls this week. I think we'll have to wait and see how things look in a week or two before we get a really good idea of where the race stands.

Many Democrats have optimistically looked at this as 1980-redux (only with Dems the beneficiaries) --  I wonder if the best comparison is actually 1960. 1960 was a Democratic year, with most of the fundamentals pointing to a Democratic victory. 1958 had seen huge Democratic gains in Congress. Yet there were concerns about Kennedy's religion and experience and in the end the race was very close.

Of course, one big difference was that Ike was nowhere near as unpopular as Bush is. Nixon benefited from his association with Ike. McCain, by contrast, benefits from NOT being associated with Bush -- despite Democratic attempts to tie him to Bush, McCain's favorables remain stubbornly high. He is one of the most well-known politicians in the country and he has a reputation from Bush's first term for moderation and independence. That's a perception that is difficult to completely dislodge.

My own guess is that given the fundamentals, this is going to be an Obama victory. But it'll probably be a narrow one, with a popular vote margin anywhere between 0.5-4% (probably 1-2%) and an electoral college victory that is also quite narrow. I'm not at all confident about Ohio -- though Obama has led polls there, Ohio (and Michigan and Pennsylvania) are places where I'd expect to see a Bradley effect in the polls, meaning that Michigan and Pennsylvania will probably go to Obama but will be closer than polled and Ohio may well go to McCain. So at this point, if we're looking at a very narrow Obama lead, I'd expect his most likely EV victory route to go through holding the Gore/Kerry states (incl. NH, Iowa, and New Mexico), and winning Colorado, Virginia or both.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: KeyKeeper on September 07, 2008, 02:52:28 PM
If I am right, McCain right now has a 9-12% bump in the Gallup poll right?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 07, 2008, 03:03:55 PM
Gallup says:

Gallup measures convention bounces by comparing candidate support in the last poll done entirely before a party's presidential nominating convention begins with the first polling conducted entirely after its conclusion.

Using this dynamic - Obama bounce:

Obama 49 (45)
McCain 43 (45)

McCain bounce (if you want to begin last Monday, instead of Tuesday (when Gustav hit), then 49-43 is the start point)

Obama 50 (?)
McCain 42 (?)

The VP picks affected all of this, so keep that in mind.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on September 07, 2008, 03:14:08 PM
I don't know what fancy stuff Silver does (other than find a starting point, where you know the three day numbers because they are so stable and work forward), but here is the unfancy stuff using Silver's prior two day numbers, with X the solution for the one day Saturday number:

(-2.4+4.2+X)/3=3
x=7.2


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on September 07, 2008, 03:17:59 PM
If I am right, McCain right now has a 9-12% bump in the Gallup poll right?

-8 to +7 = 15, or 7.5% if one is counting the percentage who switched. I don't know if the nomenclature of bounce is the former or the latter.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 07, 2008, 03:21:13 PM
Gallup refers to the bounce as the amount of support a candidate has gained, not the change in margin, just fyi.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 07, 2008, 04:54:51 PM
McCain will probably lead several polls this week. I think we'll have to wait and see how things look in a week or two before we get a really good idea of where the race stands.

Many Democrats have optimistically looked at this as 1980-redux (only with Dems the beneficiaries) --  I wonder if the best comparison is actually 1960. 1960 was a Democratic year, with most of the fundamentals pointing to a Democratic victory. 1958 had seen huge Democratic gains in Congress. Yet there were concerns about Kennedy's religion and experience and in the end the race was very close.

Of course, one big difference was that Ike was nowhere near as unpopular as Bush is. Nixon benefited from his association with Ike. McCain, by contrast, benefits from NOT being associated with Bush -- despite Democratic attempts to tie him to Bush, McCain's favorables remain stubbornly high. He is one of the most well-known politicians in the country and he has a reputation from Bush's first term for moderation and independence. That's a perception that is difficult to completely dislodge.

My own guess is that given the fundamentals, this is going to be an Obama victory. But it'll probably be a narrow one, with a popular vote margin anywhere between 0.5-4% (probably 1-2%) and an electoral college victory that is also quite narrow. I'm not at all confident about Ohio -- though Obama has led polls there, Ohio (and Michigan and Pennsylvania) are places where I'd expect to see a Bradley effect in the polls, meaning that Michigan and Pennsylvania will probably go to Obama but will be closer than polled and Ohio may well go to McCain. So at this point, if we're looking at a very narrow Obama lead, I'd expect his most likely EV victory route to go through holding the Gore/Kerry states (incl. NH, Iowa, and New Mexico), and winning Colorado, Virginia or both.

Man, for a minute there I thought you were jsojourner and had backed away from the ledge. :)

Anyway, I agree with this. It sounds quite plausible.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 07, 2008, 05:59:16 PM
Well, that's a decent bounce. The next couple of days could be even better for him. No reason to believe it'll last at this point though.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 07, 2008, 08:25:34 PM
Well, that's a decent bounce. The next couple of days could be even better for him. No reason to believe it'll last at this point though.

Didn't you express the belief that McCain would still be behind about 48 hours ago?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 07, 2008, 08:41:34 PM
Well, that's a decent bounce. The next couple of days could be even better for him. No reason to believe it'll last at this point though.

Didn't you express the belief that McCain would still be behind about 48 hours ago?

I don't recall. If I did, I was wrong, obviously. At least I'll admit when I'm wrong. :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 07, 2008, 08:57:04 PM
At least I'll admit when I'm wrong. :p

True. You did after NH too, yet J. J. never owned up to his retarded babble about Wisconsin.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on September 07, 2008, 09:39:53 PM
At least I'll admit when I'm wrong. :p

True. You did after NH too, yet J. J. never owned up to his retarded babble about Wisconsin.

He sure misses the mark for a MENSA dude....


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 07, 2008, 09:41:13 PM
At least I'll admit when I'm wrong. :p

True. You did after NH too, yet J. J. never owned up to his retarded babble about Wisconsin.

It look like they were closing.  Hey, I said it, PPP had it right.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 07, 2008, 09:42:30 PM
At least I'll admit when I'm wrong. :p

True. You did after NH too, yet J. J. never owned up to his retarded babble about Wisconsin.

It look like they were closing.

Only if you give ARG any validity and/or compare apples to oranges in the polls by trying to find a trend from polls with obviously vastly different methodologies, both of which are ridiculous.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 07, 2008, 09:49:59 PM
At least I'll admit when I'm wrong. :p

True. You did after NH too, yet J. J. never owned up to his retarded babble about Wisconsin.

He sure misses the mark for a MENSA dude....

Expected a four point lead on one of the polls and got it.  I don't know what more you want.

I can use smaller words if it can help you Epsilons.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on September 07, 2008, 09:51:24 PM
At least I'll admit when I'm wrong. :p

True. You did after NH too, yet J. J. never owned up to his retarded babble about Wisconsin.

It look like they were closing.

Only if you give ARG any validity and/or compare apples to oranges in the polls by trying to find a trend from polls with obviously vastly different methodologies, both of which are ridiculous.

I don't know how J.J. is in person. I bet he's a pretty nice guy, and sometimes he comes off that way....but he says some pretty inaccurate and ignorant things that make it hard for me to believe that.  


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on September 07, 2008, 09:52:35 PM
At least I'll admit when I'm wrong. :p

True. You did after NH too, yet J. J. never owned up to his retarded babble about Wisconsin.

He sure misses the mark for a MENSA dude....

Expected a four point lead on one of the polls and got it.  I don't know what more you want.

I can use smaller words if it can help you Epsilons.  :)

Epsilons...hehe.... You are funny though. Fu cked up like me.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 07, 2008, 09:55:52 PM
At least I'll admit when I'm wrong. :p

True. You did after NH too, yet J. J. never owned up to his retarded babble about Wisconsin.

He sure misses the mark for a MENSA dude....

Expected a four point lead on one of the polls and got it.  I don't know what more you want.

I can use smaller words if it can help you Epsilons.  :)

Epsilons...hehe.... You are funny though. Fu cked up like me.

I am the guy who listed Palin as a bad choice for VP however.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: pragmatic liberal on September 07, 2008, 10:54:34 PM
McCain will probably have a larger lead in both the Gallup and Rasmussen polls tomorrow. We'll also got a clutch of state polling this week, and my guess is that on balance they'll be pretty favorable to McCain -- lots of Obama leads within the MoE and several McCain leads in critical swing states.

It's not gonna be fun for guys on my side. But I'm gonna try and stay calm and wait it out. McCain got a bounce (just as Obama got one), and given that he got to go second, plus the big interest in the Palin pick, it'll probably subside more slowly. In, at most, two weeks, we'll have a better idea of what the equilibrium of the race is and whether that equilibrium is new (either genuinely tied or a McCain lead) or whether it reverts to the old equilibrium (Obama slightly ahead).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on September 07, 2008, 10:55:43 PM
McCain will probably have a larger lead in both the Gallup and Rasmussen polls tomorrow. We'll also got a clutch of state polling this week, and my guess is that on balance they'll be pretty favorable to McCain -- lots of Obama leads within the MoE and several McCain leads in critical swing states.

It's not gonna be fun for guys on my side. But I'm gonna try and stay calm and wait it out. McCain got a bounce (just as Obama got one), and given that he got to go second, plus the big interest in the Palin pick, it'll probably subside more slowly. In, at most, two weeks, we'll have a better idea of what the equilibrium of the race is and whether that equilibrium is new (either genuinely tied or a McCain lead) or whether it reverts to the old equilibrium (Obama slightly ahead).

A reasonable analysis and one I agree with.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on September 07, 2008, 11:51:57 PM
Obviously very good news for McCain.

Worth noting that Carter got a big bounce out of the Dem convention in 1980 and had the lead immediately thereafter, as well.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 08, 2008, 12:00:05 AM
Obviously very good news for McCain.

Worth noting that Carter got a big bounce out of the Dem convention in 1980 and had the lead immediately thereafter, as well.

Carter's "big bounce" was 1 point on Gallup, 39 to 38.  I checked the numbers a few days ago


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 08, 2008, 12:01:05 AM
Yeah, the tracking polls should be brutal today. Everyone should prepare for that.

I wish we held our convention after theirs. Fu ck tradition.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 08, 2008, 12:09:21 AM
I wish we held our convention after theirs. Fu ck tradition.

I doubt this accounts for any real difference. So McCain gets a lead for a week or two. Big whoop.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 08, 2008, 12:39:28 AM
I wish we held our convention after theirs. Fu ck tradition.

I doubt this accounts for any real difference. So McCain gets a lead for a week or two. Big whoop.

Two weeks is where you start getting problems.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: HardRCafé on September 08, 2008, 03:00:37 AM
Part of the reason I'm supporting Obama is that he is a Democrat,

"Part."

Ahahahahahahaha.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: KeyKeeper on September 08, 2008, 09:18:40 AM
I wish we held our convention after theirs. Fu ck tradition.

I doubt this accounts for any real difference. So McCain gets a lead for a week or two. Big whoop.

Two weeks is where you start getting problems.

If McCain is ahead or with end 2% in two week, you can count Sen. Obama out. Sen. McCain well do very well in the debates and Sen. Obama will not.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 08, 2008, 09:30:16 AM
I wish we held our convention after theirs. Fu ck tradition.

I doubt this accounts for any real difference. So McCain gets a lead for a week or two. Big whoop.

Two weeks is where you start getting problems.

If McCain is ahead or with end 2% in two week, you can count Sen. Obama out. Sen. McCain well do very well in the debates and Sen. Obama will not.

Apparently you have never watched a Senator Obama debate. Especially his more recent ones. He was terrific in the MSNBC Ohio debate.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 08, 2008, 10:07:07 AM
I wish we held our convention after theirs. Fu ck tradition.

I doubt this accounts for any real difference. So McCain gets a lead for a week or two. Big whoop.

Two weeks is where you start getting problems.

If McCain is ahead or with end 2% in two week, you can count Sen. Obama out. Sen. McCain well do very well in the debates and Sen. Obama will not.

They are both pretty average debaters overall. I don't think there is any way to know will win the debates at this point.

Also how does McCain leading by 2 points a month and a half before the election mean it's over? That's just silly.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 08, 2008, 10:19:09 AM
I wish we held our convention after theirs. Fu ck tradition.

I doubt this accounts for any real difference. So McCain gets a lead for a week or two. Big whoop.

Two weeks is where you start getting problems.

If McCain is ahead or with end 2% in two week, you can count Sen. Obama out. Sen. McCain well do very well in the debates and Sen. Obama will not.

2% and it's over?  Wow.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 08, 2008, 10:25:26 AM
What time does this bastard come out at anyway?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on September 08, 2008, 10:26:09 AM
What time does this bastard come out at anyway?

Obama is fixing to speak in about an hour or so.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 08, 2008, 10:28:00 AM
What time does this bastard come out at anyway?

Obama is fixing to speak in about an hour or so.

lololol

Anyway, I was talking about the poll...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 08, 2008, 10:34:11 AM
I wish we held our convention after theirs. Fu ck tradition.

I doubt this accounts for any real difference. So McCain gets a lead for a week or two. Big whoop.

Two weeks is where you start getting problems.

If McCain is ahead or with end 2% in two week, you can count Sen. Obama out. Sen. McCain well do very well in the debates and Sen. Obama will not.

I wouldn't even go that far.  There would be a sense that Obama can't, not isn't winning.

I doubt if that would happen though it is possible.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 08, 2008, 10:39:49 AM
I wish we held our convention after theirs. Fu ck tradition.

I doubt this accounts for any real difference. So McCain gets a lead for a week or two. Big whoop.

Two weeks is where you start getting problems.

If McCain is ahead or with end 2% in two week, you can count Sen. Obama out. Sen. McCain well do very well in the debates and Sen. Obama will not.

2% and it's over?  Wow.

Yeah, I'm reeling from that one. An Obama lead of 2% means he's sure to lose?!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on September 08, 2008, 10:40:39 AM
What time does this come out?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 08, 2008, 11:36:58 AM
It usually comes out around 1 PM EST.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 08, 2008, 11:58:32 AM
I'm not at a computer where I can post links but the new CNN poll shows no McCain bounce from the convention. Their poll showed no bounce for Obama either after his convention. It seems like they keep releasing the same poll, actually. lol


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 08, 2008, 12:07:42 PM
Monday, September 8

McCain - 49% (+1)
Obama - 44% (-1)

Nothing too nuts...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 08, 2008, 12:08:24 PM
Monday, September 8

McCain - 49% (+1)
Obama - 44% (-1)

Slightly better than expected.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 08, 2008, 12:09:01 PM
Maybe it'll freeze tomorrow.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 08, 2008, 12:10:53 PM
Monday, September 8

McCain - 49% (+1)
Obama - 44% (-1)

Slightly better than expected.
Do you pick up your paycheck from the local RNC campaign office, or do they mail it to you?

McCain's lead will probably evaporate as the week wears on, though he should have some residual bounce until the debates.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 08, 2008, 12:10:59 PM
Monday, September 8

McCain - 49% (+1)
Obama - 44% (-1)

Slightly better than expected.

Really? Not as bad as I was expecting...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on September 08, 2008, 12:11:30 PM
That sample was weaker for McCain than yesterday's... maybe even Friday too (I'm too lazy to do the math.)


John McCain is collapsing


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 08, 2008, 12:12:53 PM
That sample was weaker for McCain than yesterday's... maybe even Friday too (I'm too lazy to do the math.)


John McCain is collapsing

Haha. aizen, you're brilliant.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 08, 2008, 12:13:16 PM
That sample was weaker for McCain than yesterday's... maybe even Friday too (I'm too lazy to do the math.)


John McCain is collapsing

This sample is something like McCain +4, I think.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on September 08, 2008, 12:15:29 PM
The last day is McCain +3.6, given various assumptions.

The McCain tsunami may be receding. 

(4.2+7.2+X)/3=5
x=3.6

Someone should keep up my little formula. I am going to be gone for 10 days. :)



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 08, 2008, 12:18:51 PM
Monday, September 8

McCain - 49% (+1)
Obama - 44% (-1)

Slightly better than expected.
Do you pick up your paycheck from the local RNC campaign office, or do they mail it to you?

McCain's lead will probably evaporate as the week wears on, though he should have some residual bounce until the debates.

Considering I expected a four point lead, slightly better than expected.  You see the number 5 is a bit higher than the number 4.

"Boy, Obama is really walking away with this one."  ;)  (Ah, that is called sarcasm.)

Monday, September 8

McCain - 49% (+1)
Obama - 44% (-1)

Slightly better than expected.

Really? Not as bad as I was expecting...

I called it a 4 point bounce on one of the polls.  It's slightly better.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 08, 2008, 12:34:25 PM
That sample was weaker for McCain than yesterday's... maybe even Friday too (I'm too lazy to do the math.)


John McCain is collapsing

The bounce is probably going, but this isn't a collapse by any stretch of the imagination.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on September 08, 2008, 12:41:57 PM

I think independents are going to start leaking towards McCain.  The Palin pick has legs.  And as the smears start to subside and she continues showing she's competent, more independents will be drawn to her.  Having survived the first week, the Palin train has left the station.  She also needs to start making the late night talk show rounds.

And with Palin getting a lot of attention, it's going to be hard for Obama to win news cycles from now to election day. Being gaffe prone and flip-flopping doesn't help him either.

Obama needs the following things to win:
1) no new international crisis until election day (Russia, Iran, etc)
2) Obama has to at least tie McCain in the debates.  It's likely neither Obama or McCain will score a knockout punch during the debates.
3) Biden needs to win his debate.  If Palin comes anywhere close, expect more women to drift her way.  The Biden/Palin debate is probably the biggest risk to the Obama campaign.  A Palin win could very well end this campaign, especially if she does so without coming across as being too rabid (more of a barracuda and less of an attack dog).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: RJ on September 08, 2008, 12:42:59 PM
McCain leads by 5 today and lead by 3 yesterday. Rasmussen is only reporting 2 as of today. Anyone think this is his peak?

I'll say no right now but it won't get a whole lot bigger(perhaps as much as 6 and it'll be dead even  before long.)  After listening to the media, I expected McCain to have an insurmountable lead.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: KeyKeeper on September 08, 2008, 12:54:42 PM
So far Sen. McCain has gained 7% since Sen. Obama's peak, while Sen. Obama has drop 6% in the Gallup poll.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on September 08, 2008, 02:07:04 PM
Obviously very good news for McCain.

Worth noting that Carter got a big bounce out of the Dem convention in 1980 and had the lead immediately thereafter, as well.

Carter's "big bounce" was 1 point on Gallup, 39 to 38.  I checked the numbers a few days ago

Gallup's own website says a 10 point bounce.

()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 08, 2008, 02:21:03 PM
Obviously very good news for McCain.

Worth noting that Carter got a big bounce out of the Dem convention in 1980 and had the lead immediately thereafter, as well.

Carter's "big bounce" was 1 point on Gallup, 39 to 38.  I checked the numbers a few days ago

Gallup's own website says a 10 point bounce.

()

I checked the Gallup poll of mid August. quoted in Presidential Elections and American Politics third edition, 1984, p. 161.

You are looking at the GOP bounce disappearing, because after the RNC Reagan was up by 16 points (R 45, C 29).  After the DNC, Carter led, 39 to 38, or +1.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 08, 2008, 04:25:27 PM
lol. Only John F. Kerry managed to pull off the negative bounce.

Classic.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 08, 2008, 05:14:46 PM
lol. Only John F. Kerry managed to pull off the negative bounce.

Classic.

I actually predicted that in 2004. Fritz, an old forum member who is starting to make a bit of a comeback, basically called me crazy for saying that. I'll never forget it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on September 08, 2008, 05:17:27 PM
lol. Only John F. Kerry managed to pull off the negative bounce.

Classic.

he talked about Vietnam for an hour.  what can you expect?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 08, 2008, 05:18:01 PM
Since McCain is almost getting a majority of the vote, I'm pretty satisfied.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 08, 2008, 05:21:02 PM
He shouldn't have let his wife speak under the influence.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on September 08, 2008, 06:59:16 PM
Obviously very good news for McCain.

Worth noting that Carter got a big bounce out of the Dem convention in 1980 and had the lead immediately thereafter, as well.

Carter's "big bounce" was 1 point on Gallup, 39 to 38.  I checked the numbers a few days ago

Gallup's own website says a 10 point bounce.

()

I checked the Gallup poll of mid August. quoted in Presidential Elections and American Politics third edition, 1984, p. 161.

You are looking at the GOP bounce disappearing, because after the RNC Reagan was up by 16 points (R 45, C 29).  After the DNC, Carter led, 39 to 38, or +1.

Well, I'm assuming that's the 10 point Carter bounce Gallup is referring to. Going from 29 to 39.

You're right that it's far from the same situation as this year, just pointing out that incumbent party candidates can still get big convention bounces and lead in the polls even when their party is insanely unpopular.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 08, 2008, 07:24:01 PM


Well, I'm assuming that's the 10 point Carter bounce Gallup is referring to. Going from 29 to 39.

You're right that it's far from the same situation as this year, just pointing out that incumbent party candidates can still get big convention bounces and lead in the polls even when their party is insanely unpopular.

The thing is, neither Carter nor the Democrats were insanely unpopular at that point.  It was just a post GOP convention bounce versus the DNC bounce.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: RJ on September 08, 2008, 09:33:02 PM
The thing is, neither Carter nor the Democrats were insanely unpopular at that point.  It was just a post GOP convention bounce versus the DNC bounce.

I couldn't believe it when I read it that Carter got a 10 point bounce in 1980 after the DNC convention. I was very young when this election took place, but there's 1 thing I remember: Iran Hostage Crisis. That thing really did Carter in.

Among other things that I don't remember but read about is stagflation. A new word in the English language (at that point in time) had to be invented since economists believed high inflation and unemployment could not be attained in the same time period. Under Carter, it became reality. There was also Carter's energy conservation, which was a colossal failure. Carter also almost collapsed and lost in 76'. There was also the Kennedy factor when he trashed Carter in his concession speech in 1980.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on September 08, 2008, 09:50:26 PM


Well, I'm assuming that's the 10 point Carter bounce Gallup is referring to. Going from 29 to 39.

You're right that it's far from the same situation as this year, just pointing out that incumbent party candidates can still get big convention bounces and lead in the polls even when their party is insanely unpopular.

The thing is, neither Carter nor the Democrats were insanely unpopular at that point.  It was just a post GOP convention bounce versus the DNC bounce.

Not as unpopular as Bush, that's true. But low enough that it should've been obvious that Reagan was likely to win.

Gallup poll Carter approval ratings

()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 08, 2008, 11:45:26 PM


Well, I'm assuming that's the 10 point Carter bounce Gallup is referring to. Going from 29 to 39.

You're right that it's far from the same situation as this year, just pointing out that incumbent party candidates can still get big convention bounces and lead in the polls even when their party is insanely unpopular.

The thing is, neither Carter nor the Democrats were insanely unpopular at that point.  It was just a post GOP convention bounce versus the DNC bounce.

Not as unpopular as Bush, that's true. But low enough that it should've been obvious that Reagan was likely to win.

Gallup poll Carter approval ratings



Actually less popular than Bush is now, at least in terms of who'd the voter vote for.  After the RNC, it was Carter 29, Reagan 45.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on September 09, 2008, 09:12:46 AM


Well, I'm assuming that's the 10 point Carter bounce Gallup is referring to. Going from 29 to 39.

You're right that it's far from the same situation as this year, just pointing out that incumbent party candidates can still get big convention bounces and lead in the polls even when their party is insanely unpopular.

The thing is, neither Carter nor the Democrats were insanely unpopular at that point.  It was just a post GOP convention bounce versus the DNC bounce.

Not as unpopular as Bush, that's true. But low enough that it should've been obvious that Reagan was likely to win.

Gallup poll Carter approval ratings



Actually less popular than Bush is now, at least in terms of who'd the voter vote for.  After the RNC, it was Carter 29, Reagan 45.

Have we seen a poll of Bush v Obama? No.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CPT MikeyMike on September 09, 2008, 12:08:12 PM
Tuesday, September 9

McCain - 49% (nc)
Obama - 44% (nc)

McCain led Obama by five percentage points in Monday's report on the strength of a six-point increase in the percentage of voters choosing him on the presidential trial heat following the Republican National Convention. McCain's 49% support in today's three-day rolling average, based on Sept. 6-8 interviewing, is unchanged from Monday's report and matches McCain's high mark in Gallup tracking to date.

Gallup polling in recent days has been quite stable, showing McCain ahead of Obama by similar margins in each of the last four individual days of nightly tracking. McCain also had a 4-point lead over Obama among registered voters in the separate USA Today/Gallup Poll conducted this past weekend.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 09, 2008, 12:14:01 PM
Ya, last night must have been McCain +4 or so, as well, similar to the sample that dropped off.  I think Sunday's sample was slightly more McCain favorable, so it might move down a point tomorrow, depending on what new result we get tomorrow.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on September 09, 2008, 01:48:14 PM
(7.2+3.6+X)/3=5
x=4.2


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 09, 2008, 01:49:59 PM

If Gallup says the margins have been similar the last four nights, then the 7.2 might not be as high, and the others might not be as low.  Just FYI - it's hard to get it exact.  Of course, maybe 7.2 to them is the same as 3.6.  :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on September 09, 2008, 01:56:13 PM
I just used the 538 numbers from back when, and rolled forward using my simple little equation, which any high school student in the top 10% or so could do.  :) . I thought Nat Silver was a genius!  What happened?  :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 09, 2008, 02:46:29 PM
+4 is the bounce; it's what I expected.  Chill until at least Friday, if not Monday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 09, 2008, 03:17:31 PM
WHY CAN'T MCCAIN GET ABOVE 50%?

WHY CAN'T MCCAIN COMPLETE THE SALE?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on September 09, 2008, 04:30:15 PM
WHY CAN'T MCCAIN GET ABOVE 50%?

WHY CAN'T MCCAIN COMPLETE THE SALE?

give her time, son, give her time


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 09, 2008, 07:02:34 PM


Well, I'm assuming that's the 10 point Carter bounce Gallup is referring to. Going from 29 to 39.

You're right that it's far from the same situation as this year, just pointing out that incumbent party candidates can still get big convention bounces and lead in the polls even when their party is insanely unpopular.

The thing is, neither Carter nor the Democrats were insanely unpopular at that point.  It was just a post GOP convention bounce versus the DNC bounce.

Not as unpopular as Bush, that's true. But low enough that it should've been obvious that Reagan was likely to win.

Gallup poll Carter approval ratings



Actually less popular than Bush is now, at least in terms of who'd the voter vote for.  After the RNC, it was Carter 29, Reagan 45.

Have we seen a poll of Bush v Obama? No.

Actually we have. Rasmussen did one in July. It had Obama 54%, Bush 34%.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/obama_leads_bush_by_twenty_but_clinton_does_better_against_mccain


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 09, 2008, 07:06:10 PM


Well, I'm assuming that's the 10 point Carter bounce Gallup is referring to. Going from 29 to 39.

You're right that it's far from the same situation as this year, just pointing out that incumbent party candidates can still get big convention bounces and lead in the polls even when their party is insanely unpopular.

The thing is, neither Carter nor the Democrats were insanely unpopular at that point.  It was just a post GOP convention bounce versus the DNC bounce.

Not as unpopular as Bush, that's true. But low enough that it should've been obvious that Reagan was likely to win.

Gallup poll Carter approval ratings



Actually less popular than Bush is now, at least in terms of who'd the voter vote for.  After the RNC, it was Carter 29, Reagan 45.

Have we seen a poll of Bush v Obama? No.

Actually we have. Rasmussen did one in July. It had Obama 54%, Bush 34%.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/obama_leads_bush_by_twenty_but_clinton_does_better_against_mccain

I think Bush's negatives were higher than Carter's then.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 09, 2008, 11:42:01 PM
McCain winning a majority of indies:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110137/McCain-Now-Winning-Majority-Independents.aspx


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck on September 10, 2008, 08:56:38 AM
WHY CAN'T MCCAIN GET ABOVE 50%?

WHY CAN'T MCCAIN COMPLETE THE SALE?

give her time, son, give her time

Heh....her

I'm guessing you're talking about Palin.  I want to know what you have to say about the fact that she once tried to have certain books banned in her town as mayor...  Seriously.  All you Palin freaks, answer to that. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reaganfan on September 10, 2008, 08:58:24 AM
WHY CAN'T MCCAIN GET ABOVE 50%?

WHY CAN'T MCCAIN COMPLETE THE SALE?

give her time, son, give her time

Heh....her

I'm guessing you're talking about Palin.  I want to know what you have to say about the fact that she once tried to have certain books banned in her town as mayor...  Seriously.  All you Palin freaks, answer to that. 

That was debunked the other day. False. She simply had a conversation about different beliefs with the librarian.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on September 10, 2008, 09:01:35 AM
WHY CAN'T MCCAIN GET ABOVE 50%?

WHY CAN'T MCCAIN COMPLETE THE SALE?

give her time, son, give her time

Heh....her

I'm guessing you're talking about Palin.  I want to know what you have to say about the fact that she once tried to have certain books banned in her town as mayor...  Seriously.  All you Palin freaks, answer to that. 

That was debunked the other day. False. She simply had a conversation about different beliefs with the librarian.

Yeah she had a "conversation" about banning books. No one was forcing anyone to do anything....yeah right.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on September 10, 2008, 10:01:26 AM
WHY CAN'T MCCAIN GET ABOVE 50%?

WHY CAN'T MCCAIN COMPLETE THE SALE?

give her time, son, give her time

Heh....her

I'm guessing you're talking about Palin.  I want to know what you have to say about the fact that she once tried to have certain books banned in her town as mayor...  Seriously.  All you Palin freaks, answer to that. 

the story lacks a context of a motive.  1) Was she trying to ban certain books out of the children's section?  2) Was she trying to ban obscene pronographic material? 3) Or was she simply trying to ban books she disagreed with?

if 1 or 2, then she's in the clear.  If 3, then she has a very serious problem.

But, I haven't been able to find her motive, and without a motive, we don't know what it was she was trying to do


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 10, 2008, 10:31:59 AM
WHY CAN'T MCCAIN GET ABOVE 50%?

WHY CAN'T MCCAIN COMPLETE THE SALE?

give her time, son, give her time

Heh....her

I'm guessing you're talking about Palin.  I want to know what you have to say about the fact that she once tried to have certain books banned in her town as mayor...  Seriously.  All you Palin freaks, answer to that. 

That was debunked the other day. False. She simply had a conversation about different beliefs with the librarian.

Yeah she had a "conversation" about banning books. No one was forcing anyone to do anything....yeah right.

Sounds like Cheney's conversations with the CIA about the intelligence he'd like to hear.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on September 10, 2008, 11:45:54 AM


Well, I'm assuming that's the 10 point Carter bounce Gallup is referring to. Going from 29 to 39.

You're right that it's far from the same situation as this year, just pointing out that incumbent party candidates can still get big convention bounces and lead in the polls even when their party is insanely unpopular.

The thing is, neither Carter nor the Democrats were insanely unpopular at that point.  It was just a post GOP convention bounce versus the DNC bounce.

Not as unpopular as Bush, that's true. But low enough that it should've been obvious that Reagan was likely to win.

Gallup poll Carter approval ratings



Actually less popular than Bush is now, at least in terms of who'd the voter vote for.  After the RNC, it was Carter 29, Reagan 45.

Have we seen a poll of Bush v Obama? No.

Actually we have. Rasmussen did one in July. It had Obama 54%, Bush 34%.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/obama_leads_bush_by_twenty_but_clinton_does_better_against_mccain

I think Bush's negatives were higher than Carter's then.

Let me get this straight.

1. Bush has a lower approval rating than Carter.
2. Bush would lose by a wider margin to the opposition candidate than Carter.
3. Therefore, Bush is more popular than Carter.

Please, tell me how you get to 3.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 10, 2008, 11:46:44 AM
1. Bush has a lower approval rating than Carter.
2. Bush would lose by a wider margin to the opposition candidate than Carter.
3. Therefore, Bush is more popular than Carter.

I thought Bush had higher approvals than Carter, but even higher disapprovals.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 10, 2008, 11:47:35 AM
When does this tracking poll usually come out? There is really no specific time I have noticed, but they usually do come out after noon.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on September 10, 2008, 11:48:36 AM
1. Bush has a lower approval rating than Carter.
2. Bush would lose by a wider margin to the opposition candidate than Carter.
3. Therefore, Bush is more popular than Carter.

I thought Bush had higher approvals than Carter, but even higher disapprovals.

Nope. As the chart on the previous page shows, Carter was somewhat above 30% approval at this point. Bush is slightly below 30% approval. (And obviously has higher disapprovals; Carter's peak was still below 60% while Bush has recorded disapprovals as high as 70%.)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 10, 2008, 11:57:26 AM
When does this tracking poll usually come out? There is really no specific time I have noticed, but they usually do come out after noon.

It should be any minute.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 10, 2008, 12:02:26 PM
Wednesday, September 10

McCain - 48% (-1)
Obama - 43% (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 10, 2008, 12:04:09 PM
Gallup releases at 1 PM EST everyday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: KeyKeeper on September 10, 2008, 12:05:12 PM
Well, I'm shocked.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 10, 2008, 12:07:49 PM
The most hilarious thing is that McCain has eroded Obama's lead on the economy to 3-points. Ha, more of the failed same gaining ground on the economy. There's no hope whatsoever is there?

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 10, 2008, 12:12:04 PM
The most hilarious thing is that McCain has eroded Obama's lead on the economy to 3-points. Ha, more of the failed same gaining ground on the economy. There's no hope whatsoever is there?

Dave

Quit your whining, it's getting old.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 10, 2008, 12:12:42 PM
The most hilarious thing is that McCain has eroded Obama's lead on the economy to 3-points. Ha, more of the failed same gaining ground on the economy. There's no hope whatsoever is there?

Dave

Where are you getting this from?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 10, 2008, 12:13:53 PM

About...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 10, 2008, 12:16:00 PM
The most hilarious thing is that McCain has eroded Obama's lead on the economy to 3-points. Ha, more of the failed same gaining ground on the economy. There's no hope whatsoever is there?

Dave

Where are you getting this from?

Here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/110170/Economy-McCain-Gains-Ground-Obama.aspx

But it pertains to the latest Gallup/USA Today poll

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on September 10, 2008, 12:17:48 PM
The most hilarious thing is that McCain has eroded Obama's lead on the economy to 3-points. Ha, more of the failed same gaining ground on the economy. There's no hope whatsoever is there?

Dave

Where are you getting this from?

Here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/110170/Economy-McCain-Gains-Ground-Obama.aspx

But it pertains to the latest Gallup/USA Today poll

Dave

Oh. So it's just useless crap.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 10, 2008, 12:36:57 PM
The most hilarious thing is that McCain has eroded Obama's lead on the economy to 3-points. Ha, more of the failed same gaining ground on the economy. There's no hope whatsoever is there?

Dave

Quit your whining, it's getting old.

When I use words like "hilarious" and "ha" I can assure you I'm not whining ;). Wouldn't put McCain in charge of a hot-dog stand


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 10, 2008, 12:39:14 PM
Excellent


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on September 10, 2008, 01:19:43 PM
(3.6+4.2+X)/3=5
x=7.2

There is a trend!  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on September 10, 2008, 01:21:54 PM
So I wonder if the country has become more republican due to Palin. Haha that would be f'in hilarious.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on September 10, 2008, 01:22:13 PM
Gallup, like Rasmussen, is proving to be way too biased in McCain's favor. I guess the only poll we can trust is Diego Hotline.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 10, 2008, 01:27:01 PM
Gallup, like Rasmussen, is proving to be way too biased in McCain's favor. I guess the only poll we can trust is Diego Hotline.

I only trust ARG.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 10, 2008, 02:15:41 PM
Gallup, like Rasmussen, is proving to be way too biased in McCain's favor. I guess the only poll we can trust is Diego Hotline.

You mean "I guess the only poll we can trust is the ones that show it tied or with Obama leading."


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 10, 2008, 04:58:30 PM
Gallup, like Rasmussen, is proving to be way too biased in McCain's favor. I guess the only poll we can trust is Diego Hotline.

You mean "I guess the only poll we can trust is the ones that show it tied or with Obama leading."
Do you not trust Rasmussen? Because I'd argue they're one of the better national pollsters.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 10, 2008, 05:02:42 PM
Gallup, like Rasmussen, is proving to be way too biased in McCain's favor. I guess the only poll we can trust is Diego Hotline.

You mean "I guess the only poll we can trust is the ones that show it tied or with Obama leading."
Do you not trust Rasmussen? Because I'd argue they're one of the better national pollsters.

How the hell did I imply that I didn't trust Rasmussen in that statement above? Aizen was saying he didn't trust them because they are "biased" towards McCain.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Small Business Owner of Any Repute on September 10, 2008, 05:04:01 PM
Gallup, like Rasmussen, is proving to be way too biased in McCain's favor. I guess the only poll we can trust is Diego Hotline.

You mean "I guess the only poll we can trust is the ones that show it tied or with Obama leading."
Do you not trust Rasmussen? Because I'd argue they're one of the better national pollsters.

I would trust them a lot more if they fixed their weighting issue.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on September 10, 2008, 05:47:35 PM
Gallup, like Rasmussen, is proving to be way too biased in McCain's favor. I guess the only poll we can trust is Diego Hotline.

You mean "I guess the only poll we can trust is the ones that show it tied or with Obama leading."
Do you not trust Rasmussen? Because I'd argue they're one of the better national pollsters.

I would trust them a lot more if they fixed their weighting issue.

in the long run it's a good idea.  it just isn't great for bounce-times (such as the one at present).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 10, 2008, 06:32:57 PM


Well, I'm assuming that's the 10 point Carter bounce Gallup is referring to. Going from 29 to 39.

You're right that it's far from the same situation as this year, just pointing out that incumbent party candidates can still get big convention bounces and lead in the polls even when their party is insanely unpopular.

The thing is, neither Carter nor the Democrats were insanely unpopular at that point.  It was just a post GOP convention bounce versus the DNC bounce.

Not as unpopular as Bush, that's true. But low enough that it should've been obvious that Reagan was likely to win.

Gallup poll Carter approval ratings



Actually less popular than Bush is now, at least in terms of who'd the voter vote for.  After the RNC, it was Carter 29, Reagan 45.

Have we seen a poll of Bush v Obama? No.

Actually we have. Rasmussen did one in July. It had Obama 54%, Bush 34%.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/obama_leads_bush_by_twenty_but_clinton_does_better_against_mccain

I think Bush's negatives were higher than Carter's then.

Let me get this straight.

1. Bush has a lower approval rating than Carter.
2. Bush would lose by a wider margin to the opposition candidate than Carter.
3. Therefore, Bush is more popular than Carter.

Please, tell me how you get to 3.

Your proposition #1 is wrong.  Bush, at the time of the poll was higher than Carter at the time of the poll.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 10, 2008, 07:33:13 PM
Today's numbers might be something as simple as a bad sample.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 10, 2008, 08:18:20 PM
Aizen makes jokes, people.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on September 10, 2008, 11:45:41 PM
WHY CAN'T MCCAIN GET ABOVE 50%?

WHY CAN'T MCCAIN COMPLETE THE SALE?

give her time, son, give her time

Heh....her

I'm guessing you're talking about Palin.  I want to know what you have to say about the fact that she once tried to have certain books banned in her town as mayor...  Seriously.  All you Palin freaks, answer to that. 

That was debunked the other day. False. She simply had a conversation about different beliefs with the librarian.

Yeah she had a "conversation" about banning books. No one was forcing anyone to do anything....yeah right.

The mafia had a conversation with me today about cement shoes and sleeping with the fishes. I shouldn't be worried, right?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 11, 2008, 09:09:18 AM
McCain Now Winning Majority of Independents [9 September, 2008]

Majority of independents back now prefer him over Obama, 52% to 37%

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110137/McCain-Now-Winning-Majority-Independents.aspx

Support for John McCain by Party ID Pre- and Post- GOP Convention

Pre (Aug. 29-31) / Post (Sep. 5-7)

Republicans: 90% / 89%

Moderate/Liberal Republicans: 81% / 80%
Conservative Republicans: 95% / 95%

Independents: 40% / 52%

Pure independents: 20% / 39%

Democrats: 9% / 14%

Liberal Democrats: 2% / 4%
Moderate Democrats: 11% / 16%
Conservative Democrats: 15% / 25%

Support for John McCain by Gender Pre- and Post- GOP Convention

Men: 46% / 52%
Women: 41% / 46%

Support for John McCain by Age Pre- and Post- GOP Convention

18 to 29 years: 34% / 33%
30 to 49 years: 46% / 51%
50 to 64 years: 43% / 50%
65 years and older: 45% / 52%

Support for John McCain by Region Pre- and Post- GOP Convention

East: 38% / 44%
Midwest: 39% / 46%
South: 49% / 58%
West: 43% / 44%

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 11, 2008, 12:02:29 PM
9/11/08

McCain 48% (nc)

Obama 44% (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on September 11, 2008, 12:11:24 PM

Hopefully, we are recovering from our little Tet Offensive.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 11, 2008, 12:25:53 PM
Anybody know what Gallup's party weighting numbers are at this point?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 11, 2008, 12:47:48 PM
Gallup doesn't weight. They just spit out what they get, but I think it ends up being something like D+5 or so.

From the Gallup article:

"In addition, since Sept. 5 -- the first night after the Republican National Convention -- he has outpolled Obama in each of the last six individual night's polling. That consistent pattern in the night-to-night data suggests that McCain has a stable lead for now."

I agree, looks like a small McCain lead for now.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 11, 2008, 01:27:34 PM

Midweek poll.  If there is a lead, it's lower.  If this were next Monday or Tuesday, I'd be very happy.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: KeyKeeper on September 12, 2008, 07:44:01 AM
If Sen. McCain can just hold the lead or stay tied until the first debate, I will be very happy.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 12, 2008, 11:36:31 AM
If Sen. McCain can just hold the lead or stay tied until the first debate, I will be very happy.
He probably will, unless something happens. Generally a convention bounce persists (at least to a degree) for a few weeks after the convention.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 12, 2008, 12:05:11 PM
Friday - September 12, 2008

McCain - 48% (nc)
Obama - 45% (+1)

These results, based on interviewing conducted Tuesday through Thursday, mark the first time since the Sept. 4-6 report that McCain does not have a statistically significant lead over Obama, and also reflect interviewing on Thursday that showed a very close race. It is unknown whether or not Thursday's results may have reflected any possible impact of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin's widely publicized television interviews with Charles Gibson of ABC News, which began to be broadcast Thursday evening.

The story of the presidential race this year since early June has been a tendency for candidate support levels to return to near parity after one or the other candidate moves into a brief lead, so the days ahead will show whether or not this contest will once again settle back into a "too close to call" structure.

Obama and McCain were together Thursday at memorial services in New York at the site of the 9/11 terrorist attack, but both campaigns have now returned to hot and heavy campaigning, including ads directly attacking each other's positions on issues.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reds4 on September 12, 2008, 12:07:08 PM
About what I would expect for today. It will be interesting to see what gallup looks like come Monday or so, Obama does see a weekend bounce in it sometimes.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on September 12, 2008, 12:07:49 PM
MCCain is probably up 3-4 points right now. *Sigh*


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 12, 2008, 12:08:07 PM
About what I would expect for today. It will be interesting to see what gallup looks like come Monday or so, Obama does see a weekend bounce in it sometimes.

Tuesday, I think, was a very strong sample for McCain that will roll off for tomorrow's results.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 12, 2008, 12:08:58 PM
Both Rasmussen and Gallup agree.  Very interesting.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 12, 2008, 12:10:27 PM
Both Rasmussen and Gallup agree.  Very interesting.

Reassuring to me, too, that the shifts in party ID post-RNC may have been ephemeral.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 12, 2008, 12:12:17 PM
Both Rasmussen and Gallup agree.  Very interesting.

Reassuring to me, too, that the shifts in party ID post-RNC may have been ephemeral.

Rasmussen was actually an increase.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 12, 2008, 12:12:54 PM
Statistical noise.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 12, 2008, 12:18:08 PM
Both Rasmussen and Gallup agree.  Very interesting.

Reassuring to me, too, that the shifts in party ID post-RNC may have been ephemeral.

Rasmussen was actually an increase.

I know. I didn't believe the tie and was worried that it was low because of outdated party ID weighting.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 12, 2008, 12:20:33 PM
MCCain is probably up 3-4 points right now. *Sigh*

Actually, should the poll be 100% accurate, McCain is up less than 3 points since it's a 3 day rolling average.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 12, 2008, 12:22:41 PM

Potentually a trend.  On Gallup, by Tuesday, Obama should be ahead.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on September 12, 2008, 03:07:57 PM
As much as the RCP folks like to hand with nationalists and plutocrats, I agree that Micky C is up about 2 points now. He still may not actually win, even with a two point lead...unless he siphons New Mexico or Michigan, that look more Republican than Pennsylvania, Iowa or even Colorado.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on September 12, 2008, 03:35:51 PM
If Obama takes CO (9)...

A) Given NV (5)... NH+NM (9) or IA (7)
Longshot... OR (7)

B) Without NV... NM+IA (12), NH+IA (11), PA (21), MI (17), or WI (10)
Longshots... NJ (15), MN (10), NM+OR (12)

I cannot see WA (11) flipping, but if I see a close poll come late this month or October, I'd consider myself corrected.

I probably messed up somewhere, because I was not using a map. :p


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kalimantan on September 12, 2008, 06:51:32 PM
If Obama takes CO (9)...

A) Given NV (5)... NH+NM (9) or IA (7)
Longshot... OR (7)

B) Without NV... NM+IA (12), NH+IA (11), PA (21), MI (17), or WI (10)
Longshots... NJ (15), MN (10), NM+OR (12)

I cannot see WA (11) flipping, but if I see a close poll come late this month or October, I'd consider myself corrected.

I probably messed up somewhere, because I was not using a map. :p

Don't know what you're on about...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on September 12, 2008, 08:44:56 PM
McCain has obviously been able to knock Obama off his perch - McCain is leading now.

It's certainly not irreversible.

Obama needs to get on message - namely "The Republicans have so little faith in the presidential candidate... they've made their VP the image of their ticket"

"The Republicans are more interested in feigning offence and creating rankor, rather than trying to create solutions to the REAL problems you face"


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on September 12, 2008, 09:02:58 PM
If Obama takes CO (9)...

A) Given NV (5)... NH+NM (9) or IA (7)
Longshot... OR (7)

B) Without NV... NM+IA (12), NH+IA (11), PA (21), MI (17), or WI (10)
Longshots... NJ (15), MN (10), NM+OR (12)

I cannot see WA (11) flipping, but if I see a close poll come late this month or October, I'd consider myself corrected.

I probably messed up somewhere, because I was not using a map. :p

Don't know what you're on about...

I would suggest looking at 538 and then looking back at this.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 13, 2008, 12:06:54 PM
Saturday, 9/13/08

McCain 47%, -1

Obama 45%, nc


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 13, 2008, 12:10:30 PM
Not bad. McCain is still clearly out in front.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 13, 2008, 12:11:31 PM
Not bad. McCain is still clearly out in front.

Hardly "Out in front."  He's ahead by 2, and that lead has been going down steadily.  We'll be tied by Wednesday, I'd say.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: KeyKeeper on September 13, 2008, 12:12:01 PM
Not bad. McCain is still clearly out in front.

I wouldn't say clearly, but yes he is ahead.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 13, 2008, 12:12:55 PM
Not bad. McCain is still clearly out in front.

Hardly "Out in front."  He's ahead by 2, and that lead has been going down steadily.  We'll be tied by Wednesday, I'd say.

RAS has him up by 3.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 13, 2008, 12:13:17 PM
Not bad. McCain is still clearly out in front.

Hardly "Out in front."  He's ahead by 2, and that lead has been going down steadily.  We'll be tied by Wednesday, I'd say.

Weren't you supposed to be tied this week?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 13, 2008, 12:13:23 PM
Not bad. McCain is still clearly out in front.

It includes one day of the weekend.  I'm waiting for Monday's results.  I would be surprised to see MCain gain or stay the same on Wednesday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 13, 2008, 12:13:59 PM
Not bad. McCain is still clearly out in front.

Hardly "Out in front."  He's ahead by 2, and that lead has been going down steadily.  We'll be tied by Wednesday, I'd say.

RAS has him up by 3.

Then RAS will have them tied on Tursday or Friday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: pepper11 on September 13, 2008, 12:14:28 PM
This was a pretty good sample for McCain I think. I believe the sample that dropped out was +6 or 7 for McCain. meaning the latest was + 3 or + 4, given the 1 point decline. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CPT MikeyMike on September 13, 2008, 12:14:38 PM
RCP average  (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html) has McCain up 2.3.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 13, 2008, 12:16:56 PM
Not bad. McCain is still clearly out in front.

Hardly "Out in front."  He's ahead by 2, and that lead has been going down steadily.  We'll be tied by Wednesday, I'd say.

RAS has him up by 3.

Then RAS will have them tied on Tursday or Friday.

I love wishful thinking.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 13, 2008, 12:18:31 PM
Not bad. McCain is still clearly out in front.

Hardly "Out in front."  He's ahead by 2, and that lead has been going down steadily.  We'll be tied by Wednesday, I'd say.

RAS has him up by 3.

Then RAS will have them tied on Tursday or Friday.

I love wishful thinking.

They're getting scared. Wishful thinking is all they have left.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: KeyKeeper on September 13, 2008, 12:21:07 PM
Guys don't get cocky, there is still a long ways to go anything came happen.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on September 13, 2008, 12:23:54 PM
RCP average  (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html) has McCain up 2.3.

Today's 4 tracking polls have it 47.0-45.5 for McCain.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 13, 2008, 12:26:01 PM
Not bad. McCain is still clearly out in front.

Hardly "Out in front."  He's ahead by 2, and that lead has been going down steadily.  We'll be tied by Wednesday, I'd say.

RAS has him up by 3.

Then RAS will have them tied on Tursday or Friday.

I love wishful thinking.

Very wishful think.  We have to make two assumption:

1.  The isn't an Obama weekend bounce.

2.  There is a bad sample in the Rasmussen number.

At least one of those assumptions is probably wrong.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 13, 2008, 05:19:47 PM
Be patient, folks... :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on September 13, 2008, 06:04:58 PM
Well looks like America wants 4 more years of Bush policies. Wonderful.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 13, 2008, 06:12:34 PM
Well looks like America wants 4 more years of Bush policies. Wonderful.

Well...if you want to call it that, sure.  I disagree; but then again, a good sized chunk of the American public disagrees as well. ;)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on September 13, 2008, 06:29:07 PM
Well looks like America wants 4 more years of Bush policies. Wonderful.

Well...if you want to call it that, sure.  I disagree; but then again, a good sized chunk of the American public disagrees as well. ;)

But there is only one truth Ronnie. See the thing is that in some ways Mccain might be different. He will get rid of gitmo and he may veto a spending bill or two but where else is there a difference? He promises more tax cuts for the rich while he promises more war. How does that work out? Are we really going to become a debtor nation? Are we going to be begging for debt reductions in 50 years? Is that the path we want to go down? A lot of people think that we are in this mess because Bush is stupid/incompetent. That is not the case though. It is the policies he has pursued that has led to this mess. Low regulation led to Enron ,Worldcom and all those corporate shakeups in his first term. Low regulation led to a lowering of lending standards which led to the subprime crisis now. Is Mccain going to regulate industries more heavily? I don't know the answer to that but if he surrounds himself with the same people bush did, the answer would be no.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 14, 2008, 12:17:47 AM
Why are McCain people excited about a poll that shows his lead getting smaller everyday? Very strange.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on September 14, 2008, 12:25:36 AM
Quote
He will get rid of gitmo and he may veto a spending bill or two but where else is there a difference?

He's been a deficit hawk his entire career and has never requested any type of wasteful spending. Yet, you believe that he will be the same big spender like Bush. Why? Do you just watch the Democrat talking points and believe them?

Quote
He promises more tax cuts for the rich while he promises more war.

Yes, he proposes more tax cuts for all Americans. The rich pay the most taxes, so yes, they'll get the most back. I guess if you believe in redistributing the wealth, you'd disagree with this policy. Besides, with Democrat majorities, he won't be able to get this done. Obama has said he won't be rolling back the tax cuts either until the economy turns around, so it's moot.

Quote
Are we going to be begging for debt reductions in 50 years?

LOL. You think Obama will reduce the debt when he proposes billions in new spending? The truth is neither side will reduce the deficit.

Quote
Low regulation led to Enron ,Worldcom and all those corporate shakeups in his first term.

It was Bush's fault that Enron and Worldcom went bankrupt? Those things were going on during Clinton's final years and broke a year after Bush took office. High regulation on industries will just hinder growth. There's a reason why other nations are outpacing us in economic growth.

Quote
Low regulation led to a lowering of lending standards which led to the subprime crisis now.

Stupidity lead to the current crisis. People making $50,000 a year shouldn't be buying $800,000 homes. Maybe put some warning in there, but it isn't Bush's fault that this stuff happened. Ban ARM's if we need to.

Quote
Is Mccain going to regulate industries more heavily?

I hope not.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on September 14, 2008, 12:29:28 AM
Quote
He will get rid of gitmo and he may veto a spending bill or two but where else is there a difference?

He's been a deficit hawk his entire career and has never requested any type of wasteful spending. Yet, you believe that he will be the same big spender like Bush. Why? Do you just watch the Democrat talking points and believe them?

The war in Iraq is costing $10 billion a month.

Quote
Quote
He promises more tax cuts for the rich while he promises more war.

Yes, he proposes more tax cuts for all Americans. The rich pay the most taxes, so yes, they'll get the most back. I guess if you believe in redistributing the wealth, you'd disagree with this policy. Besides, with Democrat majorities, he won't be able to get this done. Obama has said he won't be rolling back the tax cuts either until the economy turns around, so it's moot.
Obama has more tax cuts for most Americans, and yet, unlike McCain's tax cut, it will have little impact on the national debt.

Quote

Quote
Are we going to be begging for debt reductions in 50 years?

LOL. You think Obama will reduce the debt when he proposes billions in new spending? The truth is neither side will reduce the deficit.
You just called McCain a deficit hawk.


Quote
Quote
Low regulation led to Enron ,Worldcom and all those corporate shakeups in his first term.

It was Bush's fault that Enron and Worldcom went bankrupt? Those things were going on during Clinton's final years and broke a year after Bush took office. High regulation on industries will just hinder growth. There's a reason why other nations are outpacing us in economic growth.
Quote
Low regulation led to a lowering of lending standards which led to the subprime crisis now.

Stupidity lead to the current crisis. People making $50,000 a year shouldn't be buying $800,000 homes. Maybe put some warning in there, but it isn't Bush's fault that this stuff happened. Ban ARM's if we need to.

Quote
Is Mccain going to regulate industries more heavily?

I hope not.

Reagan is to blame for deregulating these things. We had the same sort of problems back when McCain was having his Keating Five scandal. Hmm, who is going to do more to fix the problem, Obama or Mr. Keating Five?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on September 14, 2008, 01:00:29 AM
Quote
He will get rid of gitmo and he may veto a spending bill or two but where else is there a difference?

He's been a deficit hawk his entire career and has never requested any type of wasteful spending. Yet, you believe that he will be the same big spender like Bush. Why? Do you just watch the Democrat talking points and believe them? 

This is an area where I am hopeful Mccain will be able to do something. I know of his distaste of pork barrel spending but I doubt he will be able to much about it. We need that line item veto.


Quote
He promises more tax cuts for the rich while he promises more war.

Yes, he proposes more tax cuts for all Americans. The rich pay the most taxes, so yes, they'll get the most back. I guess if you believe in redistributing the wealth, you'd disagree with this policy. Besides, with Democrat majorities, he won't be able to get this done. Obama has said he won't be rolling back the tax cuts either until the economy turns around, so it's moot.

My main problem here is giving away tax cuts in the middle of a war. I also think the chance of a war with Iran goes way up under a Mccain administration. Many who have conversed with him say he believes war is a way of solving things and he just may choose that route in Iran. Although he may do it more competently than Bush, how is he going to pay for it? How long is he planning on keeping troops in Iraq? How will we pay for that? At least Obama's tax cuts and tax increases add a little into the coffers while Mccain's tax cuts just increase the debt even more.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Dan the Roman on September 14, 2008, 03:53:43 AM
Pork is meaningless and all this talk about wasteful spending is equally dishonest. There is no wasteful spending in the budget because everything there makes sense for someone. The actual amount of Pork is less than 1% of the federal deficit. All this talk about earmarks is lies so that McCain can fool people into thinking we can afford his tax cut.

And issue is not redistribution v. non-redistribution. Someone will pay for these things. You either have the rich pay through taxes, or the middle class and poor will pay through inflation and higher gas prices. There is a reason we had guess prices high this year and it wasn't supply and demand. It was that the dollar was worth 25% less than in 2003 so instead of 3$ a gallon it was 4$. As the dollar went up prices dropped.

The best way to keep oil prices low is to raise taxes and lower the deficit. That will have a million times more effect than drilling or any other nonsense. But Republicans pretend these days that they can have taxes and spending and not pay for it.

This nonsense about taxes slowing growth is bs too. Wall St. would vastly prefer a higher dollar, and lower commodity prices to a 1% tax cut. The only people who are think they help the economy are paid lobbyist like Norquist. Wall St. has been very clear they want Obama or more accurately they want anyone but McCain since he will be an economic disaster story.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on September 14, 2008, 05:53:57 AM
What the country really needs is some middle class tax cuts to get this economy going again. I have nothing against tax cuts for the rich but the country just cannot afford it right now. Not when we love to go to war against people who didn't even attack us. If Mccain really invades Iran and lowers taxes on the rich, god help us all. Actually god help the poor because they are the ones who are going to get crushed by inflation. The rich will just put their money in gold and enjoy the good life. And the circle of life continues.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on September 14, 2008, 07:34:30 AM

Quote
Low regulation led to Enron ,Worldcom and all those corporate shakeups in his first term.

It was Bush's fault that Enron and Worldcom went bankrupt? Those things were going on during Clinton's final years and broke a year after Bush took office. High regulation on industries will just hinder growth. There's a reason why other nations are outpacing us in economic growth.

Quote
Low regulation led to a lowering of lending standards which led to the subprime crisis now.

Stupidity lead to the current crisis. People making $50,000 a year shouldn't be buying $800,000 homes. Maybe put some warning in there, but it isn't Bush's fault that this stuff happened. Ban ARM's if we need to.
 

It wasn't specifically Bush's fault that Enron went bankrupt or the subprime crisis happened. I just feel that government needs to regulate industry in the sense that they need to make sure nothing untoward is occurring. We need more government oversight, not meddling with their actual operations. Oversight costs money on the part of the government but it does not hinder businesses unless they are doing something which is unethical. In the examples I provided something unethical/stunningly stupid was occurring. By your logic we should let these things occur and let the chips fall where they may. You are right in that sense because Enron did go bankrupt and all these banks that got involved in these retarded loans did get f'ed. But the question is wouldn't it be better if we had stopped these guys earlier? Deregulation is good to an extent but you need oversight or evil people will game the system which ultimately leads to everyone losing. I was just reading up about the energy crisis of 2001 in California and I was just thinking the whole time how a little oversight would have avoided that whole situation.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on September 14, 2008, 12:04:23 PM
Sunday -  September 14, 2008:

McCain  - 47% (nc)
Obama  - 45% (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 14, 2008, 12:18:01 PM
As I said, these numbers are rock solid.  McCain should be leading 2-3 points nationally now; no more, no less.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on September 14, 2008, 12:22:09 PM
As I said, these numbers are rock solid.  McCain should be leading 2-3 points nationally now; no more, no less.

The Rasmussen update tomorrow on CO, VA, PA, FL and OH should be interesting, considering McCain gained 2-3% over the week nationally.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 14, 2008, 12:24:57 PM
As I said, these numbers are rock solid.  McCain should be leading 2-3 points nationally now; no more, no less.

The Rasmussen update tomorrow on CO, VA, PA, FL and OH should be interesting, considering McCain gained 2-3% over the week nationally.

Definitely, the one I'm most looking forward to is the CO poll.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 14, 2008, 01:56:15 PM
()

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/what-convention-bounce-looks-like.html

And note when that was written.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on September 14, 2008, 02:12:56 PM
As I said, these numbers are rock solid.  McCain should be leading 2-3 points nationally now; no more, no less.

The Rasmussen update tomorrow on CO, VA, PA, FL and OH should be interesting, considering McCain gained 2-3% over the week nationally.

My predictions-

CO - Tie
VA- R +4
PA- D+1
FL- R+3
OH - R+5


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 14, 2008, 04:58:14 PM
As I said, these numbers are rock solid.  McCain should be leading 2-3 points nationally now; no more, no less.

The Rasmussen update tomorrow on CO, VA, PA, FL and OH should be interesting, considering McCain gained 2-3% over the week nationally.

Definitely, the one I'm most looking forward to is the CO poll.

I'll look for surprises in FL, VA and OH, but I expect those to be off the table, in as much as I'll be able to predict them.  CO, yes, but PA will be the key for me.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 15, 2008, 10:07:10 AM
Gallup's at +2.

Today's sample could have been about Obama -1 to 0 to get this result, right?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 15, 2008, 10:53:33 AM
Gallup's at +2.

Today's sample could have been about Obama -1 to 0 to get this result, right?

Obama should be up by one, at least.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 15, 2008, 11:52:24 AM
Gallup doesn't release till 1 PM EST. You are looking at yesterday's numbers.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 15, 2008, 12:00:44 PM
Gallup doesn't release till 1 PM EST. You are looking at yesterday's numbers.

I really expect Obama to up by one today or tomorrow.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on September 15, 2008, 12:01:48 PM
Gallup doesn't release till 1 PM EST. You are looking at yesterday's numbers.

I really expect Obama to up by one today or tomorrow.

nobody cares


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 15, 2008, 12:02:16 PM
Monday -  September 15, 2008:

McCain  - 47% (nc)
Obama  - 45% (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 15, 2008, 12:05:02 PM
Not good news for Obama.  It should have closed.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on September 15, 2008, 12:05:56 PM
Not good news for McCain.  It should have widened.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 15, 2008, 12:06:56 PM
Not good news for Obama.  It should have closed.

He's only down by 2 points.

It really doesn't matter.

It makes no sense to microanalyze day by day tracking poll trends and then deem such gains or losses as "bad news" for a candidate. Especially when the race is this close.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 15, 2008, 12:07:37 PM
Strong Lean McCain.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on September 15, 2008, 12:08:18 PM
It's within the MoE. Bush was up by 2 in the final Gallup poll preelection in 2000.

The debates will decide this thing; obsessing over every 1 or 2 point bounce for one guy or the other isn't going to do anyone's blood pressure any good, folks.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 15, 2008, 12:10:11 PM
Not good news for Obama.  It should have closed.

He's only down by 2 points.

It really doesn't matter.

It makes no sense to microanalyze day by day tracking poll trends and then deem such gains or losses as "bad news" for a candidate. Especially when the race is this close.

There should have been a weekend bounce for Obama.

J. J.'s First Rule of Elections:  "If a candidate that say something like 'I don't look at the polls,' or 'The only polls that matter are the ones on Election Day,' that candidate will lose."

You are flirting dangerously close to violating that one.
 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on September 15, 2008, 12:11:11 PM
Not good news for Obama.  It should have closed.

He's only down by 2 points.

It really doesn't matter.

It makes no sense to microanalyze day by day tracking poll trends and then deem such gains or losses as "bad news" for a candidate. Especially when the race is this close.

There should have been a weekend bounce for Obama.

J. J.'s First Rule of Elections:  "If a candidate that say something like 'I don't look at the polls,' or 'The only polls that matter are the ones on Election Day,' that candidate will lose."

You are flirting dangerously close to violating that one.
 




Don't you violate that rule in regards to Pennsylvania?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on September 15, 2008, 12:11:37 PM
Not good news for Obama.  It should have closed.

He's only down by 2 points.

It really doesn't matter.

It makes no sense to microanalyze day by day tracking poll trends and then deem such gains or losses as "bad news" for a candidate. Especially when the race is this close.

There should have been a weekend bounce for Obama.

J. J.'s First Rule of Elections:  "If a candidate that say something like 'I don't look at the polls,' or 'The only polls that matter are the ones on Election Day,' that candidate will lose."

You are flirting dangerously close to violating that one.
 


Just pointing out that it's close enough that even if the election were held today Obama could well still win. I agree that McCain is slightly favored at this point.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: KeyKeeper on September 15, 2008, 12:23:38 PM
My my how the race has changed over the last few weeks. I don't think any one predicted Sen. McCain would have a rock hard lead of +2% on Sen. Obama. But of course the debates will change the race again.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 15, 2008, 12:26:28 PM
Not good news for Obama.  It should have closed.

He's only down by 2 points.

It really doesn't matter.

It makes no sense to microanalyze day by day tracking poll trends and then deem such gains or losses as "bad news" for a candidate. Especially when the race is this close.

There should have been a weekend bounce for Obama.

J. J.'s First Rule of Elections:  "If a candidate that say something like 'I don't look at the polls,' or 'The only polls that matter are the ones on Election Day,' that candidate will lose."

You are flirting dangerously close to violating that one.
 




Don't you violate that rule in regards to Pennsylvania?

No, I just said it's still a tossup.  I'm waiting.  I want the bounce to be settled and to see good polls.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 15, 2008, 01:18:31 PM
The race is rock solid at McCain + 2.  I don't think anyone could deny that.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 15, 2008, 01:24:47 PM
The race is rock solid at McCain + 2.  I don't think anyone could deny that.

I was confused by posts like this for a while, because I thought "rock solid" meant that this was his solid lead and it couldn't change. No one seems to think that, though; you're saying it's "rock solid" in the sense that all the polls are converging on this and it looks to be accurate. Is that correct?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 15, 2008, 01:26:58 PM
Monday -  September 15, 2008:

McCain  - 47% (nc)
Obama  - 45% (nc)
McCain is in deep trouble now.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 15, 2008, 01:29:47 PM
Not good news for Obama.  It should have closed.

He's only down by 2 points.

It really doesn't matter.

It makes no sense to microanalyze day by day tracking poll trends and then deem such gains or losses as "bad news" for a candidate. Especially when the race is this close.

There should have been a weekend bounce for Obama.

J. J.'s First Rule of Elections:  "If a candidate that say something like 'I don't look at the polls,' or 'The only polls that matter are the ones on Election Day,' that candidate will lose."

You are flirting dangerously close to violating that one.
 




Don't you violate that rule in regards to Pennsylvania?

He did constantly during the primaries for Hillary too.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 15, 2008, 01:31:41 PM
J.J.'s first rule is stupid.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 15, 2008, 01:32:26 PM
Not good news for Obama.  It should have closed.

He's only down by 2 points.

It really doesn't matter.

It makes no sense to microanalyze day by day tracking poll trends and then deem such gains or losses as "bad news" for a candidate. Especially when the race is this close.

There should have been a weekend bounce for Obama.

J. J.'s First Rule of Elections:  "If a candidate that say something like 'I don't look at the polls,' or 'The only polls that matter are the ones on Election Day,' that candidate will lose."

You are flirting dangerously close to violating that one.
 




Don't you violate that rule in regards to Pennsylvania?

He did constantly during the primaries for Hillary too.

Ah, what part of "I'm waiting for Rasmussen" don't you understand?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 15, 2008, 01:33:35 PM

You confuse the words "stupid" with "accurate."


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on September 15, 2008, 01:58:18 PM

he has a God-complex.  it can be fun to watch him spew his garbage if you take the right attitude about it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 15, 2008, 02:01:12 PM

he has a God-complex.  it can be fun to watch him spew his garbage if you take the right attitude about it.

Even that gets tedious after a while, though.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 15, 2008, 02:31:25 PM

he has a God-complex.  it can be fun to watch him spew his garbage if you take the right attitude about it.

Meh. He has a manner that eliminates all amusement value from it, unlike AuH2O for example for those who remember him.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on September 15, 2008, 02:31:50 PM
Goldie was awesome. He needs to come back, immediately.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on September 15, 2008, 03:13:49 PM
Goldie was awesome. He needs to come back, immediately.

he wasn't very good at what he did


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 15, 2008, 03:34:53 PM

he has a God-complex.  it can be fun to watch him spew his garbage if you take the right attitude about it.

Meh. He has a manner that eliminates all amusement value from it, unlike AuH2O for example for those who remember him.

I don't really care if you are amused or not; I do care if the rule works.  So far, it has.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 15, 2008, 07:23:33 PM

he has a God-complex.  it can be fun to watch him spew his garbage if you take the right attitude about it.

Meh. He has a manner that eliminates all amusement value from it, unlike AuH2O for example for those who remember him.

I don't really care if you are amused or not; I do care if the rule works.  So far, it has.

Yes it certainly worked for Obama against your Hillary hackery (and constant insistence Hillary was going to do better than the polls.)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 15, 2008, 08:42:43 PM

he has a God-complex.  it can be fun to watch him spew his garbage if you take the right attitude about it.

Meh. He has a manner that eliminates all amusement value from it, unlike AuH2O for example for those who remember him.

I don't really care if you are amused or not; I do care if the rule works.  So far, it has.

Yes it certainly worked for Obama against your Hillary hackery (and constant insistence Hillary was going to do better than the polls.)

It worked 4 years ago.  It worked 2 years ago. It looks like it's working this year.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 15, 2008, 10:47:46 PM

he has a God-complex.  it can be fun to watch him spew his garbage if you take the right attitude about it.

Meh. He has a manner that eliminates all amusement value from it, unlike AuH2O for example for those who remember him.

I don't really care if you are amused or not; I do care if the rule works.  So far, it has.

Yes it certainly worked for Obama against your Hillary hackery (and constant insistence Hillary was going to do better than the polls.)

It worked 4 years ago.  It worked 2 years ago. It looks like it's working this year.

Yes it did because Hillary didn't win despite your prediction she was underpolling every single time.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 16, 2008, 02:06:59 AM

he has a God-complex.  it can be fun to watch him spew his garbage if you take the right attitude about it.

Meh. He has a manner that eliminates all amusement value from it, unlike AuH2O for example for those who remember him.

I don't really care if you are amused or not; I do care if the rule works.  So far, it has.

Yes it certainly worked for Obama against your Hillary hackery (and constant insistence Hillary was going to do better than the polls.)

It worked 4 years ago.  It worked 2 years ago. It looks like it's working this year.

Yes it did because Hillary didn't win despite your prediction she was underpolling every single time.

Neither rule was violate, though Hilary came close at one point.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on September 16, 2008, 09:11:45 AM
Not good news for Obama.  It should have closed.

He's only down by 2 points.

It really doesn't matter.

It makes no sense to microanalyze day by day tracking poll trends and then deem such gains or losses as "bad news" for a candidate. Especially when the race is this close.

There should have been a weekend bounce for Obama.

J. J.'s First Rule of Elections:  "If a candidate that say something like 'I don't look at the polls,' or 'The only polls that matter are the ones on Election Day,' that candidate will lose."

You are flirting dangerously close to violating that one.
 

Go Yankees is Obama!!! Wow.  I had no idea.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 16, 2008, 10:38:03 AM
Not good news for Obama.  It should have closed.

He's only down by 2 points.

It really doesn't matter.

It makes no sense to microanalyze day by day tracking poll trends and then deem such gains or losses as "bad news" for a candidate. Especially when the race is this close.

There should have been a weekend bounce for Obama.

J. J.'s First Rule of Elections:  "If a candidate that say something like 'I don't look at the polls,' or 'The only polls that matter are the ones on Election Day,' that candidate will lose."

You are flirting dangerously close to violating that one.
 

Go Yankees is Obama!!! Wow.  I had no idea.

Same holds true for the supports.  It's gotten close a few times.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 16, 2008, 12:01:50 PM
Tuesday -  September 16, 2008:

McCain  - 47% (nc)
Obama  - 46% (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on September 16, 2008, 12:06:57 PM
Not good news for Obama.  It should have closed.

He's only down by 2 points.

It really doesn't matter.

It makes no sense to microanalyze day by day tracking poll trends and then deem such gains or losses as "bad news" for a candidate. Especially when the race is this close.

There should have been a weekend bounce for Obama.

J. J.'s First Rule of Elections:  "If a candidate that say something like 'I don't look at the polls,' or 'The only polls that matter are the ones on Election Day,' that candidate will lose."

You are flirting dangerously close to violating that one.
 

Go Yankees is Obama!!! Wow.  I had no idea.

Same holds true for the supports.  It's gotten close a few times.
If the rule applies across the board to all supporters, then it really is a dumb rule... if only for the fact that it gets violated ALL THE TIME by nearly every campaign at some point.

If you limit it to official parts of the campaign itself, then at least it COULD  be relevant.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on September 16, 2008, 12:08:35 PM
So Obama gained one in Rasmussen and Gallup... my question is... how pro-Obama were today's samples in each tracking poll? +1 Obama?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on September 16, 2008, 12:09:16 PM
Also, this is not good for McCain. McCain should be up by more.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 16, 2008, 12:09:31 PM
Tuesday -  September 16, 2008:

McCain  - 47% (nc)
Obama  - 46% (+1)

Damn it's the end of Obama!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 16, 2008, 12:09:54 PM
Has to do with the economy, probably.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 16, 2008, 12:10:11 PM
So Obama gained one in Rasmussen and Gallup... my question is... how pro-Obama were today's samples in each tracking poll? +1 Obama?

I was wondering that myself since we seem to have lost the thread of estimates. Reading back through this thread, someone said that Friday's sample, which dropped off, must have been reasonably good for McCain--like M +4. Which means McCain could have been polling consistently +1 since then to explain both the +2s afterward and the change today. I know that is not good math, though.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: KeyKeeper on September 16, 2008, 12:15:23 PM
Also, this is not good for McCain. McCain should be up by more.

He should? Sen. McCain should be ahead by more? But this is a Democratic year, or at least that is what everyone keeps on saying. The fact is, this isn't good for Sen. Obama, he should be up by at least 5%.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 16, 2008, 12:16:08 PM
Also, this is not good for McCain. McCain should be up by more.

He should? Sen. McCain should be ahead by more? But this is a Democratic year, or at least that is what everyone keeps on saying. The fact is, this isn't good for Sen. Obama, he should be up by at least 5%.

*whoosh*

That's the sound of the point of that post going right over your head.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on September 16, 2008, 12:16:21 PM
Also, this is not good for McCain. McCain should be up by more.

LOL


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Vsanto5 on September 16, 2008, 12:47:44 PM

I concur.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 16, 2008, 12:55:18 PM
Also, this is not good for McCain. McCain should be up by more.

He should? Sen. McCain should be ahead by more? But this is a Democratic year, or at least that is what everyone keeps on saying. The fact is, this isn't good for Sen. Obama, he should be up by at least 5%.

*whoosh*

That's the sound of the point of that post going right over your head.

Weekend bounce on Gallup.  He should have gained some and I was expecting it.  Not by 5%, but there have been some movement.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 16, 2008, 01:19:32 PM

The key is figuring out whether this is only a one-day spike, and not a continuation of the gradual movement we've observed since last Thursday.  Like I said in the other thread.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck on September 16, 2008, 01:22:05 PM
This thing is going to settle back into a modest Obama lead that's only going to get worse for McCain over the course of the debates. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 16, 2008, 01:39:49 PM
This thing is going to settle back into a modest Obama lead that's only going to get worse for McCain over the course of the debates. 

More than a bit of wishful thinking. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on September 16, 2008, 02:54:51 PM
This thing is going to settle back into a modest Obama lead that's only going to get worse for McCain over the course of the debates. 

More than a bit of wishful thinking. 

It will depend on how well each candidate does in the debate.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 16, 2008, 03:00:59 PM
Obama is finished.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 16, 2008, 03:01:40 PM
McCain's in trouble now!  The trend is there!  THE TREND


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on September 16, 2008, 03:31:50 PM
McCain's in trouble now!  The trend is there!  THE TREND

McCain has not gained ground in over a week. It's clear that his campaign is finished. The Republicans might as well dump him and replace him with Mitt Romney.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 16, 2008, 03:47:59 PM

I am a long way from saying that.

We do have a trend, however, McCain leads and, so far, his numbers are holding steady.  I expect a McCain increase over the next 2-4 days.  If it doesn't happen, it might be a sign the race is getting closer.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 16, 2008, 03:50:06 PM

I am a long way from saying that.

We do have a trend, however, McCain leads and, so far, his numbers are holding steady.  I expect a McCain increase over the next 2-4 days.  If it doesn't happen, it might be a sign the race is getting closer.

hahahahahaha


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reds4 on September 16, 2008, 03:51:31 PM
It seems to me like the national trackers are pointing towards the possibility that by this weekend Obama will lead both Ras and Gallup by a point or so. The economy talk isn't going to help McCain.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Small Business Owner of Any Repute on September 16, 2008, 03:52:31 PM
I WANT TO BATTLE TO THE DEATH OVER THE POLL NUMBERS FOR MID SEPTEMBER

LOL MCCAIN IS THRU I SAY THAT SARCASTICALLY, LOL

LOL BARACK HUSSEIN IS ON THE ROPES, LOL, LOL, SARCASM LOL.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 16, 2008, 04:27:09 PM

I am a long way from saying that.

We do have a trend, however, McCain leads and, so far, his numbers are holding steady.  I expect a McCain increase over the next 2-4 days.  If it doesn't happen, it might be a sign the race is getting closer.

hahahahahaha

We'll see.  :)

I was expecting Obama to do better through yesterday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on September 16, 2008, 06:17:06 PM

I am a long way from saying that.

We do have a trend, however, McCain leads and, so far, his numbers are holding steady.  I expect a McCain increase over the next 2-4 days.  If it doesn't happen, it might be a sign the race is getting closer.

hahahahahaha

We'll see.  :)

I was expecting Obama to do better through yesterday.

JJ looks like 538 was right and you were wrong. :)  But we shall keep observing.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 16, 2008, 06:19:01 PM

I am a long way from saying that.

We do have a trend, however, McCain leads and, so far, his numbers are holding steady.  I expect a McCain increase over the next 2-4 days.  If it doesn't happen, it might be a sign the race is getting closer.

hahahahahaha

We'll see.  :)

I was expecting Obama to do better through yesterday.

JJ looks like 538 was right and you were wrong. :)  But we shall keep observing.

He should have; he normally gets a weekend bounce. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on September 16, 2008, 06:51:11 PM

I am a long way from saying that.

We do have a trend, however, McCain leads and, so far, his numbers are holding steady.  I expect a McCain increase over the next 2-4 days.  If it doesn't happen, it might be a sign the race is getting closer.

hahahahahaha

We'll see.  :)

I was expecting Obama to do better through yesterday.

JJ looks like 538 was right and you were wrong. :)  But we shall keep observing.

He should have; he normally gets a weekend bounce. 

So you expect movement for Mccain in a day or two eh? We will see.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 16, 2008, 07:03:11 PM

I am a long way from saying that.

We do have a trend, however, McCain leads and, so far, his numbers are holding steady.  I expect a McCain increase over the next 2-4 days.  If it doesn't happen, it might be a sign the race is getting closer.

hahahahahaha

We'll see.  :)

I was expecting Obama to do better through yesterday.

JJ looks like 538 was right and you were wrong. :)  But we shall keep observing.

He should have; he normally gets a weekend bounce. 

So you expect movement for Mccain in a day or two eh? We will see.

I'm saying, if there isn't, the race is tightening.  McCain normally gets a mid week bounce; Obama normally gets a weekend bounce.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 17, 2008, 12:02:37 PM
Wednesday -  September 16, 2008:

Obama - 47% (+1)
McCain - 45% (-2)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 17, 2008, 12:03:19 PM
Wednesday -  September 16, 2008:

Obama - 47% (+1)
McCain - 45% (-2)

:)

:)

:)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on September 17, 2008, 12:03:46 PM
That midweek McCain bounce is clearly in full swing.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 17, 2008, 12:04:42 PM
LOL. But how will JJ spin this one?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on September 17, 2008, 12:05:33 PM
This is not what I expected.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on September 17, 2008, 12:06:06 PM


"Obama should be up at least 5 points. This is not good news for Obama."



Because in J.J.'s world, nothing is ever bad for McCain.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 17, 2008, 12:06:11 PM

"In what respect, Charlie?" buys him a few seconds.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on September 17, 2008, 12:07:29 PM
Wednesday -  September 16, 2008:

Obama - 47% (+1)
McCain - 45% (-2)

Good, Obama now leads by an average of 2% in today's 4 tracking polls (46.8%-44.8%).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 17, 2008, 12:08:49 PM
America wants to elect Barack Obama, but they are very unsure about him and are willing to look at other options.

That is my synopsis of the last few weeks.

Show them what you are made of over the next two months, Barack. :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on September 17, 2008, 12:15:47 PM
What would you guys do without JJ?  :)


Hey, I leave the States for a few days, and the stock market tanks, and McCain erodes. I will need to get back soon in order to restore some order.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on September 17, 2008, 12:30:08 PM
()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 17, 2008, 12:31:55 PM


"Obama should be up at least 5 points. This is not good news for Obama."



Because in J.J.'s world, nothing is ever bad for McCain.

No it's a good result for Obama.  In theory, McCain should be going up due to the mid week bounce.  If he just holds, it meant the race was tightening.  Now, if McCain doesn't pick up over the next three days, it is great news for Obama.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 17, 2008, 12:53:22 PM
Umm its a close race and will be a close race, no one should be surprised.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: JohnCA246 on September 17, 2008, 01:14:43 PM
This has to be the most consistently close race in history.  Others have bounced up and down and ended close.  04 was generally close, but Kerry spun in sept and rose up in early oct.  This race has been a consistent flat line.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 17, 2008, 01:55:59 PM
A few observations:

1. The earlier movement downward in the tracking polls from middle of last week I'm pretty sure had to do with McCain building an "unrealistic" lead among Independents post-RNC, which faded back down to roughly about even (where it had been pre-DNC).  I pretty much noted that, which is why I said the height of McCain's bounce was M+3 or M+2, while Gallup was saying M+5.

2. The present movement downward has little to do with Independent movement and is mostly due to shifts in party ID.  I don't have Gallup's exact numbers, but in comparison to Rasmussen's stable Dem +5, I'm willing to bet good money that Gallup is back to Dem +7-9. Hotline also has it as Dem +5, but I simply don't trust them as much (for good reason).  Note where Kos has it, flaws and all.

3. Post-RNC, it was pretty clear that a push would be found at a party ID of Dem +7.  It is quite possible that the push may now instead exist at a party ID of Dem +5 or Dem +6, but I am unsure as of yet.  I need to see how Rasmussen is at the end of the week in order for me to make a call.  That movement would indicate *actual* movement and something to really note.

4. The trick is to figure out whether this is actual party ID shift in voters or whether Republicans are becoming less enthused and are showing up less in polling.  Only time will tell there.

That is all.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on September 17, 2008, 02:02:16 PM


"Obama should be up at least 5 points. This is not good news for Obama."



Because in J.J.'s world, nothing is ever bad for McCain.

No it's a good result for Obama.  In theory, McCain should be going up due to the mid week bounce.  If he just holds, it meant the race was tightening.  Now, if McCain doesn't pick up over the next three days, it is great news for Obama.
OR the midweek bounce was a mirage based on not enough data and this is just noise in the data and it's been close all along.
OR McCain had a nice bounce for a couple weeks and that bounce has faded and we are going back to the basic race which is slight lean obama.
OR there's a bad high Obama sample for yesterday mucking up the numbers.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 17, 2008, 02:46:49 PM
Only up by two after all of this news which is supposed to doom McCain? Fine by me.




;)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: jeron on September 17, 2008, 02:52:08 PM
McCain's going down!!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: JohnCA246 on September 17, 2008, 03:13:54 PM
Who said it was the end of McCain?  It's more like, we scored, hurrary, great!  Now let's win.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 17, 2008, 04:58:27 PM
McCain is finished! Obama has won the election!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 17, 2008, 05:40:56 PM


"Obama should be up at least 5 points. This is not good news for Obama."



Because in J.J.'s world, nothing is ever bad for McCain.

No it's a good result for Obama.  In theory, McCain should be going up due to the mid week bounce.  If he just holds, it meant the race was tightening.  Now, if McCain doesn't pick up over the next three days, it is great news for Obama.
OR the midweek bounce was a mirage based on not enough data and this is just noise in the data and it's been close all along.
OR McCain had a nice bounce for a couple weeks and that bounce has faded and we are going back to the basic race which is slight lean obama.
OR there's a bad high Obama sample for yesterday mucking up the numbers.

If there is no shift to Obama, McCain's numbers should go up, because of the midweek bounce.    If this is a bad sample, it should drop out by Saturday. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 18, 2008, 12:03:16 PM
Thursday -  September 17, 2008:

Obama - 48% (+1)
McCain - 44% (-1)




Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 18, 2008, 12:04:12 PM
Wow. Nice.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 18, 2008, 12:05:55 PM
Probably a real shift to Obama of 3-5 points.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on September 18, 2008, 12:08:03 PM
The scales have tipped in our favor. If I were to use a baseball analogy, we just scored a touchdown in the 7th inning.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 18, 2008, 12:09:10 PM
The scales have tipped in our favor. If I were to use a baseball analogy, we just scored a touchdown in the 7th inning.

How do you score touchdowns in baseball?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on September 18, 2008, 12:12:28 PM
The scales have tipped in our favor. If I were to use a baseball analogy, we just scored a touchdown in the 7th inning.

How do you score touchdowns in baseball?

You make a basket... duh!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 18, 2008, 12:13:11 PM
The scales have tipped in our favor. If I were to use a baseball analogy, we just scored a touchdown in the 7th inning.

Try in the 5th, with the other side getting the same inning at bat.

Obama has a problem policy wise; he favors a capital gains tax increase that hurts investment.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: KeyKeeper on September 18, 2008, 12:18:16 PM
It is a very good show for Sen. Obama, but he can thank the Stock Market for his bump in the polls.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Likely Voter on September 18, 2008, 12:55:42 PM
It is a very good show for Sen. Obama, but he can thank the Stock Market for his bump in the polls.

Is that any different than the crisis in Georgia, which helped McCain?

Just proves that the real world can some time intervene into a campaign


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 18, 2008, 03:19:10 PM
The scales have tipped in our favor. If I were to use a baseball analogy, we just scored a touchdown in the 7th inning.

Try in the 5th, with the other side getting the same inning at bat.

Obama has a problem policy wise; he favors a capital gains tax increase that hurts investment.
American voters don't know that means. They probably don't even know about it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 18, 2008, 03:21:22 PM
The scales have tipped in our favor. If I were to use a baseball analogy, we just scored a touchdown in the 7th inning.

Try in the 5th, with the other side getting the same inning at bat.

Obama has a problem policy wise; he favors a capital gains tax increase that hurts investment.
American voters don't know that means. They probably don't even know about it.

Enough do, because they pay it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reds4 on September 18, 2008, 03:48:05 PM
Sadly, lief is probably right that most don't even know what that means. I sure do and that's one of my main problems with Obama.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 18, 2008, 07:09:55 PM


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on September 19, 2008, 01:12:04 AM
The scales have tipped in our favor. If I were to use a baseball analogy, we just scored a touchdown in the 7th inning.

Try in the 5th, with the other side getting the same inning at bat.

Obama has a problem policy wise; he favors a capital gains tax increase that hurts investment.

Yes, I'm sure this hurts him with the white working class swing voters in Ohio and Pennsylvania, not to mention the working moms making 8 dollars per hour.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on September 19, 2008, 01:15:30 AM
It is a very good show for Sen. Obama, but he can thank the Stock Market for his bump in the polls.

Is that any different than the crisis in Georgia, which helped McCain?

Just proves that the real world can some time intervene into a campaign

Exactly!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: NOVA Green on September 19, 2008, 01:20:39 AM
The scales have tipped in our favor. If I were to use a baseball analogy, we just scored a touchdown in the 7th inning.

Try in the 5th, with the other side getting the same inning at bat.

Obama has a problem policy wise; he favors a capital gains tax increase that hurts investment.

Yes, I'm sure this hurts him with the white working class swing voters in Ohio and Pennsylvania, not to mention the working moms making 8 dollars per hour.

Timely, as always Nym!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 19, 2008, 12:03:18 PM
September 19,2008
Obama 49%(+1)
McCain 44%(nc)



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 19, 2008, 12:09:59 PM
Nice.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 19, 2008, 12:10:35 PM
Everything is starting to fit quite nicely now.  More later.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 19, 2008, 12:11:58 PM
And the Dow is off by less than 100 points for the week.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 19, 2008, 12:12:16 PM
()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ucscgaldamez on September 19, 2008, 12:12:25 PM
Quote
Obama enjoyed one of his widest advantages over McCain of recent weeks in Thursday night's interviewing. It will be important to see whether the stock market's reaction today to aggressive government intervention in the crisis has an impact of the direction of the presidential race over the next few days.

-Gallup


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 19, 2008, 12:12:45 PM
Thursday night was very big for Obama.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ucscgaldamez on September 19, 2008, 12:25:12 PM
Waiting to see Hotline/FD tracking numbers. Obama erased McCain's advantage in the Battleground poll. He also went up in the Research 2000 poll. These polls seem to point to the same direction. We'll have to wait to see the poll numbers next week, if Obama holds up the lead, then that would be good news as he would be back on top, especially after the McCain/Palin surge that had me a bit worried. I honestly thought that there was no way that Obama would be back on top in September. The RNC was a success for McCain; Palin has energized the base and was supposed to increase women's support for McCain. It seems to have stopped. That's great news. This is Septemeber, a crucial month for determining the next president. Bush was ahead of Kerry in about 31/35 polls done in September.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on September 19, 2008, 12:26:20 PM
The Battleground poll is slow to react because it's an eight-day tracker.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ucscgaldamez on September 19, 2008, 12:27:11 PM
Right.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 19, 2008, 12:27:52 PM
The Battleground poll is slow to react because it's an eight-day tracker.

Actually, it isn't.  It's 9/11, 9/14, 9/17 and 9/18.  I really can't explain the date significance.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on September 19, 2008, 12:30:15 PM
Is this the point where Obama takes off and McCain never catches up?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 19, 2008, 12:33:04 PM
And the Dow is off by less than 100 points for the week.
That's great for the investor/millionaire class. But most Americans didn't need a bad day on Wall Street to tell them that they're struggling to get by.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on September 19, 2008, 12:55:47 PM
And the Dow is off by less than 100 points for the week.
That's great for the investor/millionaire class. But most Americans didn't need a bad day on Wall Street to tell them that they're struggling to get by.

The shot in the polls suggest otherwise.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on September 19, 2008, 01:03:08 PM
Wow. Is this election over? (No, I'm seriously asking. Isn't the recent pattern basically one of no movement between a few days from now and two weeks before the election, when it will once again look like everything's in flux - but the results then show the answer to that as "not really"?)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 19, 2008, 01:21:16 PM

We haven't seen the "Whitey" tape yet...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on September 19, 2008, 01:23:43 PM

;D


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 19, 2008, 02:16:04 PM
Last three nights estimated Gallup results(most recent first):

Obama +3.0%
Obama +3.4%
Obama +8.6%

Thus Obama's best night will fall off the tracker, so McCain should gain a point or 2 tomorrow.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 19, 2008, 02:19:56 PM
And the Dow is off by less than 100 points for the week.
That's great for the investor/millionaire class. But most Americans didn't need a bad day on Wall Street to tell them that they're struggling to get by.

The shot in the polls suggest otherwise.
The catastrophe on wall street forced the media to change the topic of the election to the economy; when we're talking about the economy, rather than pointless distractions, Obama should get a boost. McCain's convention bounce was bound to evaporate faster when the news story changed to a new one, and then, to top it all off, Palin's favorables have collapsed.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 19, 2008, 02:31:31 PM
Last three nights estimated Gallup results(most recent first):

Obama +3.0%
Obama +3.4%
Obama +8.6%

Thus Obama's best night will fall off the tracker, so McCain should gain a point or 2 tomorrow.

That doesn't fit with this remark:

Obama enjoyed one of his widest advantages over McCain of recent weeks in Thursday night's interviewing. It will be important to see whether the stock market's reaction today to aggressive government intervention in the crisis has an impact of the direction of the presidential race over the next few days.

So, how are you coming to this conclusion.  Once again, do you have access to internals?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 19, 2008, 02:35:35 PM
Last three nights estimated Gallup results(most recent first):

Obama +3.0%
Obama +3.4%
Obama +8.6%

Thus Obama's best night will fall off the tracker, so McCain should gain a point or 2 tomorrow.

That doesn't fit with this remark:

Obama enjoyed one of his widest advantages over McCain of recent weeks in Thursday night's interviewing. It will be important to see whether the stock market's reaction today to aggressive government intervention in the crisis has an impact of the direction of the presidential race over the next few days.

So, how are you coming to this conclusion.  Once again, do you have access to internals?


I don't know why that is written into their write-up. I have spoken to 2 other people who's nightly results are similar to mine(off by a point because of rounding), Gallup can write whatever they want in their write-up but the numbers don't lie at this point.

Wait till tomorrow, if McCain gets closer, my numbers will prove to be close to accurate.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 19, 2008, 02:38:32 PM
Last three nights estimated Gallup results(most recent first):

Obama +3.0%
Obama +3.4%
Obama +8.6%

Thus Obama's best night will fall off the tracker, so McCain should gain a point or 2 tomorrow.

That doesn't fit with this remark:

Obama enjoyed one of his widest advantages over McCain of recent weeks in Thursday night's interviewing. It will be important to see whether the stock market's reaction today to aggressive government intervention in the crisis has an impact of the direction of the presidential race over the next few days.

So, how are you coming to this conclusion.  Once again, do you have access to internals?


I don't know why that is written into their write-up. I have spoken to 2 other people who's nightly results are similar to mine(off by a point because of rounding), Gallup can write whatever they want in their write-up but the numbers don't lie at this point.

Wait till tomorrow, if McCain gets closer, my numbers will prove to be close to accurate.

Well, it would seem like the reverse of your numbers would better fit their actual talk, but you're right, we'll see...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 19, 2008, 03:42:01 PM
September 19,2008
Obama 49% (+1)
McCain 44%(nc)

:)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on September 19, 2008, 09:55:21 PM

Kind of like how Allen had this evidence that was supposed to sink Webb, right?

Maybe AuH20 will pop back up with the whitey tape.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 19, 2008, 10:26:40 PM
Last three nights estimated Gallup results(most recent first):

Obama +3.0%
Obama +3.4%
Obama +8.6%

Thus Obama's best night will fall off the tracker, so McCain should gain a point or 2 tomorrow.

It might have been a bad sample.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on September 19, 2008, 11:01:10 PM
I think both Gallup and Ras. are showing that the bounce has subsided.

I think there were two bounces which overlapped. The Palin bounce and the Convention bounce. I think both have gone largely.

Palin's bounce was more than likely a shift to McCain/Palin of indepdent women - who have since realised who/what Palin is and they've fallen back. No suprise McCain's numbers slip, as her unfavourables rise.

It's certainly not over, but Palin was a risky choice, and just how risky I think is being shown now.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 19, 2008, 11:03:45 PM
I think both Gallup and Ras. are showing that the bounce has subsided.

I think there were two bounces which overlapped. The Palin bounce and the Convention bounce. I think both have gone largely.

Palin's bounce was more than likely a shift to McCain/Palin of indepdent women - who have since realised who/what Palin is and they've fallen back. No suprise McCain's numbers slip, as her unfavourables rise.

It's certainly not over, but Palin was a risky choice, and just how risky I think is being shown now.

We won't see how "risky" she was until after the debates.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on September 19, 2008, 11:09:00 PM
I don't disagree.

I don't mean risky in a necessarily "negative" way - since there does seem to be a correlation between the perception of Palin and McCain's numbers. I think McCain has been overwhelmed - firstly by Obama, then by Palin and now by circumstances.

I saw the Huckabee on adviser on AC360 and she basically made the point that Obama's got the right message on the economy, and McCain doesnt. While making a VERY weak argument tying Washington lobbyists and Obama to the financial crisis (while trying to maintain that 'fundamentals of the economy are strong' line) - when all evidence shows that its McCain's attempt to pull the 'everything old is new again' re-hash of Reaganite economic populism.... of course forgetting that it's the gutting of financial regulations that helped create this situation.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 20, 2008, 11:41:18 AM
September 20, 2008
Obama 50% (+1)
McCain 44%(nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 20, 2008, 11:44:59 AM
It doesn't come out till 1 PM, where are you getting this from?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 20, 2008, 11:47:32 AM
It doesn't come out till 1 PM, where are you getting this from?

()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on September 20, 2008, 11:48:03 AM
It doesn't come out till 1 PM, where are you getting this from?

Someone at Kos changed the image url to get the image above on the previous page.

http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/080920DailyUpdateGraph1_jkdelad.gif


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 20, 2008, 11:49:55 AM
This pretty much rules out the number series someone posted above which were in conflict with Gallup's write-up of a good Thursday sample... that would require an O +11% sample last night while Rasmussen was finding McCain +1.5%. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 20, 2008, 11:52:27 AM
Must have been a big night for Obama, considering a big night rolled off.

Extremely disappointed with these numbers.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on September 20, 2008, 11:59:44 AM
The average of the 4 tracking polls today:

Obama - 48.25%
McCain - 44.25%


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 20, 2008, 12:11:46 PM
Are all three polls three day rolling averages?  I haven't checked the Kos or Diago since I find them less interesting.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on September 20, 2008, 12:14:52 PM
Are all three polls three day rolling averages?  I haven't checked the Kos or Diago since I find them less interesting.

Yes, but they use smaller daily samples of about 300.

Gallup and Rasmussen use a daily sample of roughly 1000.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 20, 2008, 12:26:42 PM

Extremely disappointed with these numbers.

I'm not ;)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 20, 2008, 12:29:05 PM
September 20, 2008
Obama 50% (+1)
McCain 44%(nc)

Amazing numbers; any ideas on why Obama's suddenly jumped ahead the last few days?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 20, 2008, 12:31:28 PM
I furthermore concede this election to the Democrats.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 20, 2008, 12:33:03 PM
September 20, 2008
Obama 50% (+1)
McCain 44%(nc)

Amazing numbers; any ideas on why Obama's suddenly jumped ahead the last few days?

Here's Frank Newport's take:

Obama has held at least a small margin over McCain in each of the last four daily reports, generally coincident with the start of the Wall Street financial meltdown that began to dominate the news on Monday this past week. Separate Gallup consumer confidence tracking has shown that Americans' views of the economy deteriorated as the week progressed, and that Americans also began to express increased personal worry about their own finances. There is thus a reasonable inference that Obama's gains may, in part, be related to the way in which the public viewed his and McCain's response to the financial crisis. Friday's economic news was a bit more positive, with the announcement of a pending major U.S. government bailout for the country's economy, and the second day of significant increases in the Dow Jones Industrial Average and other stock market indices. It remains to be seen if this will affect Obama's lead in the days ahead.

Obama's current 50% rating matches his 50% record high reached just after the Democratic National Convention. (That came in Gallup Poll Daily tracking from Aug. 30-Sept. 1.) However, his current six percentage point advantage is not as large as the nine-point lead he held in late July and an eight-point lead after the Democratic National Convention in late August. It is important to note that McCain recovered and moved ahead after each of these Obama high points, suggesting that it is certainly possible that McCain could recover in this situation as well.

Both candidates will be on stage at the University of Mississippi this coming Friday for the first of three presidential debates, and the public's reactions to the candidates' performances there could certainly have an impact on their election standing.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on September 20, 2008, 12:33:37 PM
I furthermore concede this election to the Democrats.
NOOO! Don't jinx it!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 20, 2008, 12:36:10 PM

Amazing numbers; any ideas on why Obama's suddenly jumped ahead the last few days?

Is it at least comortable underneath that rock?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 20, 2008, 12:39:51 PM

Amazing numbers; any ideas on why Obama's suddenly jumped ahead the last few days?

Is it at least comortable underneath that rock?

Serious answer is the market, which has cooled (did it end the week up?).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on September 20, 2008, 12:50:17 PM
y r gallup and ras diverging?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on September 20, 2008, 12:57:39 PM

Ras hard-weights for party ID, Gallup doesn't, making the latter more prone to swings


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 20, 2008, 01:12:46 PM

Extremely disappointed with these numbers.

You know, it is quite possible that your guesstimates are wrong here and that Gallup's statement from Thursday is correct (which translated to me into being at O+7 or better because there were a couple of samples during the DNC/aftermath which were greater than O+6 - after Hillary and Labor Day)

It would make more sense, also as compared to the rest of the tracking polls.

In other words, if Sunday is the mean, with McCain up 1-2, as I figured then, we see this type of pattern:

Monday:  Huge McCain dropoff
Tuesday:  McCain gain, but not to the level of Sunday
Wednesday:  Reversion of McCain back to Monday's levels
Thursday:  Another McCain dropoff, below Monday and Wednesday
Friday:  McCain gain, but not to the level of Tuesday

What this means in terms of actual numbers is your own guess...  :)  Remember, I always have tended to believe that public perception in polling lags a day or so behind actual events, but that's just me.  Vorlon may disagree, actually.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 20, 2008, 01:21:27 PM
I'll agree, my numbers may be off here, I may have to relook at my calculations. But my Rasmussen numbers are indeed pretty precise.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 20, 2008, 02:06:18 PM
I'll agree, my numbers may be off here, I may have to relook at my calculations. But my Rasmussen numbers are indeed pretty precise.

Well, if you're getting them from a premium member, they ought to be.  :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: RJ on September 20, 2008, 06:44:48 PM

Amazing numbers; any ideas on why Obama's suddenly jumped ahead the last few days?

Is it at least comortable underneath that rock?

Serious answer is the market, which has cooled (did it end the week up?).

I'll comment on this as well, even though I don't like to do that very much.

The market is probably the majority of the reason, but I also think Palin is losing some of her momentum in this campaign. She had the blip in the interview in which she wasn't clear on the Bush Doctrine and now there's this issue with her husband not testifying in the state trooper scandal. She's supposed to be the biggest asset McCain has in his campaign, but it's not showing right now. The Market thing will pass (hopefully there won't be another thing like this happen for Mac's sake) but as small as these two incidents are, this could be the more drastic long term issue. Republicans everywhere better hope a pattern isn't developing.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: mypalfish on September 20, 2008, 06:55:07 PM

Amazing numbers; any ideas on why Obama's suddenly jumped ahead the last few days?

Is it at least comortable underneath that rock?

Serious answer is the market, which has cooled (did it end the week up?).

I'll comment on this as well, even though I don't like to do that very much.

The market is probably the majority of the reason, but I also think Palin is losing some of her momentum in this campaign. She had the blip in the interview in which she wasn't clear on the Bush Doctrine and now there's this issue with her husband not testifying in the state trooper scandal. She's supposed to be the biggest asset McCain has in his campaign, but it's not showing right now. The Market thing will pass (hopefully there won't be another thing like this happen for Mac's sake) but as small as these two incidents are, this could be the more drastic long term issue. Republicans everywhere better hope a pattern isn't developing.

Without Palin, McCain never would have taken the lead.

What I can't understand is with Obama taking complete command of the race, why is there all this whining about racism doing him in?  He and his surrogates (mainstream media) really do think he's the Messiah and he is entitled to win, having to expend little to no effort.  The guy has NOTHING to complain or be worried about.  His beyond favorable...more like fawning...coverage by the MSM is probably good for 2-3 pts that he wouldn't have if he was covered like a mere mortal.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TomC on September 20, 2008, 07:05:53 PM

Amazing numbers; any ideas on why Obama's suddenly jumped ahead the last few days?

Is it at least comortable underneath that rock?

Serious answer is the market, which has cooled (did it end the week up?).

I'll comment on this as well, even though I don't like to do that very much.

The market is probably the majority of the reason, but I also think Palin is losing some of her momentum in this campaign. She had the blip in the interview in which she wasn't clear on the Bush Doctrine and now there's this issue with her husband not testifying in the state trooper scandal. She's supposed to be the biggest asset McCain has in his campaign, but it's not showing right now. The Market thing will pass (hopefully there won't be another thing like this happen for Mac's sake) but as small as these two incidents are, this could be the more drastic long term issue. Republicans everywhere better hope a pattern isn't developing.

Without Palin, McCain never would have taken the lead.

What I can't understand is with Obama taking complete command of the race, why is there all this whining about racism doing him in?  He and his surrogates (mainstream media) really do think he's the Messiah and he is entitled to win, having to expend little to no effort.  The guy has NOTHING to complain or be worried about.  His beyond favorable...more like fawning...coverage by the MSM is probably good for 2-3 pts that he wouldn't have if he was covered like a mere mortal.

The GOP convention would have still given McCain a decent boost without Palin; might've even given him a smaller but more lasting boost if his message of bipartisanship wasn't undercut by the tones of others' speeches.

I agree that Obama shouldn't complain about racism. Though the "messiah" thing from the right is wearing just as thin.

I disagree Obama is in complete command of the race. I only recall one poll with him at 50%, and none with him over 50%. No one has really held a commanding lead in a Presidential race since 1996.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: mypalfish on September 20, 2008, 07:24:44 PM

Amazing numbers; any ideas on why Obama's suddenly jumped ahead the last few days?

Is it at least comortable underneath that rock?

Serious answer is the market, which has cooled (did it end the week up?).

I'll comment on this as well, even though I don't like to do that very much.

The market is probably the majority of the reason, but I also think Palin is losing some of her momentum in this campaign. She had the blip in the interview in which she wasn't clear on the Bush Doctrine and now there's this issue with her husband not testifying in the state trooper scandal. She's supposed to be the biggest asset McCain has in his campaign, but it's not showing right now. The Market thing will pass (hopefully there won't be another thing like this happen for Mac's sake) but as small as these two incidents are, this could be the more drastic long term issue. Republicans everywhere better hope a pattern isn't developing.

Without Palin, McCain never would have taken the lead.

What I can't understand is with Obama taking complete command of the race, why is there all this whining about racism doing him in?  He and his surrogates (mainstream media) really do think he's the Messiah and he is entitled to win, having to expend little to no effort.  The guy has NOTHING to complain or be worried about.  His beyond favorable...more like fawning...coverage by the MSM is probably good for 2-3 pts that he wouldn't have if he was covered like a mere mortal.

The GOP convention would have still given McCain a decent boost without Palin; might've even given him a smaller but more lasting boost if his message of bipartisanship wasn't undercut by the tones of others' speeches.

I agree that Obama shouldn't complain about racism. Though the "messiah" thing from the right is wearing just as thin.

I disagree Obama is in complete command of the race. I only recall one poll with him at 50%, and none with him over 50%. No one has really held a commanding lead in a Presidential race since 1996.

Jesus Christ himself returning from Heaven wouldn't get as favorable coverage as Obama giving a speech.

As far as bipartisanship goes, it's total bunk.  Obama's numbers rose and McCain's fell when he unleashed negative attack ads (radio and tv) against McCain that are running an incredible amount in Wisconsin.  Negative campaigning works.

And, imo, there is no way McCain can possibly win when the MSM literally acts like it's on the Obama campaign's payroll.  That's just the reality of the situation.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 21, 2008, 12:02:48 PM
Sunday, September 21, 2008

Obama - 49% (-1)
McCain - 45% (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 21, 2008, 12:04:33 PM
Sunday, September 21, 2008

Obama - 49% (-1)
McCain - 44% (+1)

It's 49-45.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: pepper11 on September 21, 2008, 12:09:19 PM
Obama's 'best individual night in weeks' drops off tomorrow.  What's up momentum change. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 21, 2008, 12:10:56 PM

Thanks. I can't help it, I have the audacity of hope. Revised the original.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 21, 2008, 12:13:52 PM
Obama's 'best individual night in weeks' drops off tomorrow.  What's up momentum change. 

It's not momentum change - it's erosion of the bump.  Big difference.

Hopefully by Monday, I'll have an idea where the race truly stands, but I might have to wait until Thursday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on September 21, 2008, 12:20:23 PM
I wonder if the recovery of the stock market on Friday will have an impact. It was massive world wide.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Umengus on September 21, 2008, 12:34:47 PM
I wonder if the recovery of the stock market on Friday will have an impact. It was massive world wide.

impact yes but smaller than the fall.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rococo4 on September 21, 2008, 12:41:26 PM
I wonder if the recovery of the stock market on Friday will have an impact. It was massive world wide.

impact yes but smaller than the fall.

id say that is correct


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on September 21, 2008, 12:52:46 PM
Obama's 'best individual night in weeks' drops off tomorrow.  What's up momentum change. 

Actually, according to the data, the best night in weeks actually dropped off today, given the largest shift (3 points) was September 15


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 21, 2008, 01:23:14 PM
Obama's 'best individual night in weeks' drops off tomorrow.  What's up momentum change. 

Actually, according to the data, the best night in weeks actually dropped off today, given the largest shift (3 points) was September 15

Uh, that sample dropped off yesterday, not today.  And once again, as I did to RowanBrandon with his analysis, I point to this language:

Obama enjoyed one of his widest advantages over McCain of recent weeks in Thursday night's interviewing. It will be important to see whether the stock market's reaction today to aggressive government intervention in the crisis has an impact of the direction of the presidential race over the next few days.

Although I don't know what the last two days' samples have been, it seems clear that Thursday's sample (Friday) was more pro-Obama than Wednesday's sample (Thursday).

How much?  Who knows...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 21, 2008, 01:27:16 PM
Friday nights sample was at least a high single digit win for Obama, while Saturday was a small McCain win.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 21, 2008, 01:29:04 PM
I expect the race to be at around Obama +2 by Thursday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 21, 2008, 01:29:10 PM
Friday nights sample was at least a high single digit win for Obama, while Saturday was a small McCain win.

So, what do you think it was?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 21, 2008, 01:58:02 PM
Friday nights sample was at least a high single digit win for Obama, while Saturday was a small McCain win.

So, what do you think it was?

I have Friday as Obama +11, and Saturday as McCain +2.

Rough estimates as always though.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on September 21, 2008, 03:28:47 PM
A 13% swing in one day is absurd, even with the financial market recovery on Friday. I guess Alcon would remind us that this is the flaw of small sample sizes or something. To me, it means that maybe pollsters are having some trouble in figuring out who will vote.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TomC on September 21, 2008, 09:44:44 PM
The financial markets have not truly recovered. We may be able to see how they are going to recover, erasing some of the fears of early in the week.

But the markets weren't just stock prices going up and down, that's just the visible reaction to the credit crisis and failure of some financial companies. The markets are reacting to news that not only impacts the prices of those stocks but they looked ahead to the macroeconomic impact over the next six or so months. The pain is far from over. Big layoffs begin next week.

If indeed last week held a long or intermediate bottom, it's likely we'll retest that bottom. Bottoms are often a "W" not just a "V." There's still tons of uncertainty out there to cause uncertainty in the market, including, even moreso now, the Nov 4 electon itself.

There's also the decent possibility we haven't even seen the bottom. After 9/11, stocks mostly dropped for the year following, the bottom being in Oct 2002.

I'm sure many are aware of all this; I've just seen repeated comments about the "recovery" in the stock markets on Thurs and Fri, and it seemed people felt it would only get better from here. I'm not your typical "gloom and doom" on the economy Democrat.  But recent events are a once-in-a generation economic crisis. This could seriously get worse before it gets better.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 21, 2008, 09:48:24 PM
The financial markets have not truly recovered. We may be able to see how they are going to recover, erasing some of the fears of early in the week.

But the markets weren't just stock prices going up and down, that's just the visible reaction to the credit crisis and failure of some financial companies. The markets are reacting to news that not only impacts the prices of those stocks but they looked ahead to the macroeconomic impact over the next six or so months. The pain is far from over. Big layoffs begin next week.

If indeed last week held a long or intermediate bottom, it's likely we'll retest that bottom. Bottoms are often a "W" not just a "V." There's still tons of uncertainty out there to cause uncertainty in the market, including, even moreso now, the Nov 4 electon itself.

There's also the decent possibility we haven't even seen the bottom. After 9/11, stocks mostly dropped for the year following, the bottom being in

I'm sure many are aware of all this; I've just seen repeated comments about the "recovery" in the stock markets on Thurs and Fri, and it seemed people felt it would only get better from here. I'm not your typical "gloom and doom" on the economy Democrat.  But recent events are a once-in-a generation economic crisis. This could seriously get worse before it gets better.

Not to mention the fact that both political parties in Congress are beginning to spar over the terms of this bailout and it is possible that we may see gridlock here. We may not see such a bill passed until the end of this week, and while that happens, the markets will suffer.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reds4 on September 22, 2008, 12:20:54 AM
I have to agree with TCash on this one. The market is unlikely to just bounce back and head higher from here on out. There is still a pretty good chance we haven't seen the bottom yet. The market hates uncertainty and there is plenty of uncertainty to go around right now. There will be plenty more news coming from the stock market in the coming weeks that will impact the election in a major way, that much you can count on.


The financial markets have not truly recovered. We may be able to see how they are going to recover, erasing some of the fears of early in the week.

But the markets weren't just stock prices going up and down, that's just the visible reaction to the credit crisis and failure of some financial companies. The markets are reacting to news that not only impacts the prices of those stocks but they looked ahead to the macroeconomic impact over the next six or so months. The pain is far from over. Big layoffs begin next week.

If indeed last week held a long or intermediate bottom, it's likely we'll retest that bottom. Bottoms are often a "W" not just a "V." There's still tons of uncertainty out there to cause uncertainty in the market, including, even moreso now, the Nov 4 electon itself.

There's also the decent possibility we haven't even seen the bottom. After 9/11, stocks mostly dropped for the year following, the bottom being in

I'm sure many are aware of all this; I've just seen repeated comments about the "recovery" in the stock markets on Thurs and Fri, and it seemed people felt it would only get better from here. I'm not your typical "gloom and doom" on the economy Democrat.  But recent events are a once-in-a generation economic crisis. This could seriously get worse before it gets better.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 22, 2008, 12:02:35 PM
Monday, September 22, 2008
Obama - 48% (-1)
McCain - 44% (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 22, 2008, 12:03:02 PM
Monday, September 22, 2008
Obama - 48% (-1)
McCain - 44% (-1)

I can live with that.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 22, 2008, 12:13:45 PM
Nooooo...stop siiiiinking.

()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 22, 2008, 12:41:19 PM
Things should be tied by Friday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on September 22, 2008, 03:47:44 PM

Is this from the bureau of statistics fomented in your butt?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 22, 2008, 05:44:05 PM

This is based on....


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 22, 2008, 06:36:41 PM

Is this from the bureau of statistics fomented in your butt?

Yes


...Obama's inability to keep a lead for more than a week or so.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 22, 2008, 06:50:44 PM
McCain had a lead once. Disappeared after a week or so, if I remember correctly.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 22, 2008, 06:55:03 PM
McCain had a lead once. Disappeared after a week or so, if I remember correctly.

That lead lasted about two weeks.  ;)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 22, 2008, 06:57:09 PM
Ah, clearly McCain is the stronger candidate. I concede the election to you, good sir.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 22, 2008, 07:35:53 PM
I have revised my nightly results from Gallup after a change in my calculations(don't know for the better or for the worse yet :P).

Last three nights(most recent first):

Obama 46%-McCain 44%
Obama 47%-McCain 47%
Obama 50%-McCain 41%


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 22, 2008, 07:52:42 PM
Ah, clearly McCain is the stronger candidate. I concede the election to you, good sir.

...

That wasn't my point at all but ok.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 23, 2008, 12:04:39 PM
Tuesday, September 23, 2008
Obama - 47% (-1)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Not enjoying this week so much.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Thomas Jackson on September 23, 2008, 12:05:22 PM
Brittain beat me to it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 23, 2008, 12:20:12 PM


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on September 23, 2008, 01:11:29 PM
Tuesday, September 23, 2008
Obama - 47% (-1)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Not enjoying this week so much.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20080915/i/r288450244.jpg?x=400&y=264&q=85&sig=.4wOq4XrAK2zyT3V0vrsuw-- (http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20080915/i/r288450244.jpg?x=400&y=264&q=85&sig=.4wOq4XrAK2zyT3V0vrsuw--)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 23, 2008, 01:45:46 PM
Tuesday, September 23, 2008
Obama - 47% (-1)
McCain - 44% (nc)

Not enjoying this week so much.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20080915/i/r288450244.jpg?x=400&y=264&q=85&sig=.4wOq4XrAK2zyT3V0vrsuw-- (http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20080915/i/r288450244.jpg?x=400&y=264&q=85&sig=.4wOq4XrAK2zyT3V0vrsuw--)

LOL.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 24, 2008, 12:01:50 PM
Wednesday, September 24, 2008
Obama - 47% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)

If Rowan's numbers are correct, which is undeterminable, Obama had a very good night last night as he did with Rasmussen.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 24, 2008, 12:29:56 PM
Wednesday, September 24, 2008
Obama - 47% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)

If Rowan's numbers are correct, which is undeterminable, Obama had a very good night last night as he did with Rasmussen.

Actually no.  The last number he posted above would have dropped off yesterday.  Of course, that assumes that the numbers are, in any way, correct.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 24, 2008, 12:52:58 PM
Wednesday, September 24, 2008
Obama - 47% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)

If Rowan's numbers are correct, which is undeterminable, Obama had a very good night last night as he did with Rasmussen.

Actually no.  The last number he posted above would have dropped off yesterday.  Of course, that assumes that the numbers are, in any way, correct.

I don't see how this disagrees with what I posted... for the numbers to stay constant at 47-44, last night would have to have been equivalent to the night which dropped off, which was a very good night.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on September 24, 2008, 12:54:49 PM
Wednesday, September 24, 2008
Obama - 47% (nc)
McCain - 44% (nc)

If Rowan's numbers are correct, which is undeterminable, Obama had a very good night last night as he did with Rasmussen.

Actually no.  The last number he posted above would have dropped off yesterday.  Of course, that assumes that the numbers are, in any way, correct.

I don't see how this disagrees with what I posted... for the numbers to stay constant at 47-44, last night would have to have been equivalent to the night which dropped off, which was a very good night.

No, that night dropped off in yesterday's numbers, when Obama went down a point, not today's. The numbers that dropped off today were actually around a tie.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 24, 2008, 12:55:58 PM
No, that night dropped off in yesterday's numbers, when Obama went down a point, not today's. The numbers that dropped off today were actually around a tie.

Aha. Thanks.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: pepper11 on September 24, 2008, 03:31:18 PM
Don't know about Rowan's Gallups numbers but his Rasmussen numbers are WAY off.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 24, 2008, 03:36:00 PM
Don't know about Rowan's Gallups numbers but his Rasmussen numbers are WAY off.

Umm no.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 25, 2008, 10:57:36 AM
Democrats Re-Establish Double-Digit Lead in Party Affiliation [23 September, 2008]

Gap had narrowed after the Republican National Convention

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110617/Democrats-ReEstablish-DoubleDigit-Lead-Party-Affiliation.aspx

Based on national adults (with leaners)

Democrat/Lean Democrat: 49%
Republican/Lean Republican: 39%

Based on national adults (without leaners)

Democrat: 35%
Republican: 26%
Independent: 33%

Among registered voters

Democrat/Lean Democrat: 51%
Republican/Lean Republican: 42%

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 25, 2008, 11:17:35 AM
Did Palin Help McCain Among White Women? [24 September, 2008]

Obama's problem with white men much bigger than among white women

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110638/Did-Palin-Help-McCain-Among-White-Women.aspx

Preferences for the General Election

Weekly aggregate of registered voters

% among white women (% among all registered voters)

Sep. 15-21, 2008: Obama 45% (49%); McCain 47% (44%)
Sep. 8-14, 2008: Obama 40% (45%); McCain 51% (47%)
Sep. 1-7, 2008: Obama 42% (47%); McCain 49% (45%)
Aug. 25-31, 2008: Obama 43% (48%); McCain 47% (42%)
Aug. 18-24, 2008: Obama 39% (45%); McCain 48% (45%)

Preference for the General Election, Among Women

Aggregate of registered voters, Aug. 1-Sep. 21, 2008

Non-Hispanic white women: Obama 42%; McCain 47%
Non-Hispanic black women: Obama 91%; McCain 3%
Hispanic white women: Obama 53%; McCain 35%
Asian women: Obama 60%; McCain 28%

Gallup Poll Daily tracking

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 25, 2008, 12:02:24 PM
Thursday, September 25, 2008
Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 46% (+2)

No joke.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reds4 on September 25, 2008, 12:05:14 PM
Goodness.. These things are all over the place.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on September 25, 2008, 12:12:44 PM
Thursday, September 25, 2008
Obama - 46% (-1)
McCain - 46% (+2)

No joke.

No, joke.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on September 25, 2008, 12:13:12 PM
Interesting... Dkos, Battleground and Rasmussen all move towards Obama, Hotline and Gallup to McCain...

Of course, today's state polling is all Obama so far.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on September 25, 2008, 12:14:26 PM
This election season is unreal


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 25, 2008, 12:17:00 PM
Of course, today's state polling is all Obama so far.

Not really.  Lots of confusion.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rococo4 on September 25, 2008, 12:34:24 PM
i might have a stroke


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Billion$Babies on September 25, 2008, 12:42:33 PM
Gallup is still measuring registered voters whilst Rasmussen is measuring likely voters .

Quick question . usually the Republican does better in likely voter polls and the dem better in registered voter polls.  Often this year, Gallup has McCain tracking better than Rasmussen has been.
Is the model of "Dem does better in RV polls" out the window, or have they just gotten the weighting in LV polls more accurate these days.  Or, are the polls so all over the place no one knows ??


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 25, 2008, 12:43:57 PM
These polls are all over the place.

But think about it, when you have the sheer number of polls we have this election year, they will be all over the place.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 25, 2008, 12:45:16 PM
Remember that there will be a 1 in 20 sample every three weeks statistically, and between the two "main" tracking polls that means one every 10 days, or a week and a half.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 25, 2008, 12:50:31 PM
Remember that there will be a 1 in 20 sample every three weeks statistically, and between the two "main" tracking polls that means one every 10 days, or a week and a half.

Problem is, Gallup's language doesn't suggest such an event.

This update covers interviewing conducted Monday through Wednesday, and as such includes one night after McCain's announcement that he was suspending election campaigning and flying to Washington to help seek a bipartisan solution to the financial crisis. A night by night analysis of interviewing results, however, does not suggest that McCain had a dramatically better night against Obama on Wednesday. Instead, the data show that McCain has been doing slightly better for the last three days than he had in the previous week, and with some strong Obama days falling off of the rolling average, the race has moved to its current tied position.

We shall see.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 25, 2008, 12:53:12 PM
Gallup is saying McCain has been slowly gaining each of the past few nights and culminated with him tying it back up.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MODU on September 25, 2008, 01:20:21 PM

This is why I don't follow popularity polls. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Umengus on September 25, 2008, 01:21:23 PM
confusion is the word.

And the answer is in the party id.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 25, 2008, 01:54:17 PM
Remember that there will be a 1 in 20 sample every three weeks statistically, and between the two "main" tracking polls that means one every 10 days, or a week and a half.

Or, McCain tends to go up in Gallup on week days, which I've been saying for about two months.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 25, 2008, 03:46:40 PM
Whoa, it's actually tied...

In any case, I expect Obama to win and win handily.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 25, 2008, 04:23:39 PM
Uggh. Why can't Gallup and Rasmussen ever agree?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 26, 2008, 03:46:04 AM
To go from O+3 to tied is a big jump.

If the numbers were previously static (assuming no pro-Obama numbers rolling off the three-day), that would mean a +9 jump for McCain in the dailies.  We'll know if this was an outlier in 3 days.  The other three dailies give some affirmative evidence that Gallup's might be off, but I like Gallup so I'll wait and see.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 26, 2008, 12:02:19 PM
Friday, September 26, 2008
Obama 48% (+2)
McCain 45% (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 26, 2008, 12:03:46 PM
Friday, September 26, 2008
Obama 48% (+2)
McCain 45% (-1)

Obama probably up by 4-5.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 26, 2008, 12:05:43 PM
Friday, September 26, 2008
Obama 48% (+2)
McCain 45% (-1)

Whoah, what sort of numbers are required for Obama to drop 3 and then go up 3 in subsequent days?

()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 26, 2008, 12:06:13 PM
Friday, September 26, 2008
Obama 48% (+2)
McCain 45% (-1)
Good stuff. McCain really needs to win the debate tonight.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 26, 2008, 12:17:47 PM
Friday, September 26, 2008
Obama 48% (+2)
McCain 45% (-1)
McCain really needs to win the debate tonight.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: True Democrat on September 26, 2008, 12:22:42 PM
Unless McCain has at least a Kerry-type game changer, I think it's over for him.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: afleitch on September 26, 2008, 12:25:55 PM
Unless McCain has at least a Kerry-type game changer, I think it's over for him.

You said IIRC that the debates may sway your vote (?) How do things stand at the moment?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on September 26, 2008, 12:28:54 PM
Who exactly was the last candidate to lose with a 3-7% lead 1 month before the election ?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 26, 2008, 12:32:01 PM
Who exactly was the last candidate to lose with a 3-7% lead 1 month before the election ?

Gore, I think.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 26, 2008, 12:35:13 PM
Who exactly was the last candidate to lose with a 3-7% lead 1 month before the election ?

Gore, I think.

Remembering Gallup's Wacky 2000 Tracking Poll:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-abramowitz/remembering-gallups-wacky_b_117594.html

Quote
Just how volatile where Gallup's results? Here are a few examples:

On August 8 Gallup had Bush 2 points ahead of Gore. Six days later, on August 13 they had Bush 16 points ahead. But one week later, on August 20, they had Gore back ahead by one.

The craziness didn't end with the nominating conventions either. On September 21 Gallup had Bush ahead of Gore by 10 points. Four days later, on September 25, Gore was back in the lead by 3. Then on October 5 Gallup had Bush ahead by 11. The next day, on October 6, his lead was down to one, and one day later, on October 7, Gore was ahead by 7.

Here's my favorite. On October 24 Gallup had Gore ahead of Bush by one point. Three days later, on October 27, they had Bush ahead by 13.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on September 26, 2008, 12:37:33 PM
Who exactly was the last candidate to lose with a 3-7% lead 1 month before the election ?

Gore, I think.

Gore was never ahead for even a whole week, just sporadically. Bush led 95% of the time, and then Gore surged at the last minute.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 26, 2008, 12:53:36 PM
Unless McCain has at least a Kerry-type game changer, I think it's over for him.

Very premature. Rasmussen will be back down to a 2-3 point lead for Obama tomorrow, and the state polling isn't looking out of reach. To call this over already is way premature.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on September 26, 2008, 01:54:33 PM
Who exactly was the last candidate to lose with a 3-7% lead 1 month before the election ?

Gore, I think.

Gore was never ahead for even a whole week, just sporadically. Bush led 95% of the time, and then Gore surged at the last minute.

lmao, Bush held a steady lead on Gore for most of the campaign.  the only times Gore was even or ahead came right after the DNC and in the final week, aided by the late-breaking Bush DUI story.  JJ should probably stop posting here and stick to things he's better at, presuming they exist.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on September 26, 2008, 02:00:57 PM
()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 26, 2008, 02:03:45 PM
Who exactly was the last candidate to lose with a 3-7% lead 1 month before the election ?

Gore, I think.

Gore was never ahead for even a whole week, just sporadically. Bush led 95% of the time, and then Gore surged at the last minute.

lmao, Bush held a steady lead on Gore for most of the campaign.  the only times Gore was even or ahead came right after the DNC and in the final week, aided by the late-breaking Bush DUI story.  JJ should probably stop posting here and stick to things he's better at, presuming they exist.

Oh PLEEZE, until the Oprah appearance, Bush was consistently losing to Gore.  Remember the RATS ad?  That late September bounce was Oprah.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on September 26, 2008, 02:06:44 PM
In other words, J.J. got the year right, he just got the wrong name.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on September 26, 2008, 02:08:33 PM
Who exactly was the last candidate to lose with a 3-7% lead 1 month before the election ?

Gore, I think.

Gore was never ahead for even a whole week, just sporadically. Bush led 95% of the time, and then Gore surged at the last minute.

lmao, Bush held a steady lead on Gore for most of the campaign.  the only times Gore was even or ahead came right after the DNC and in the final week, aided by the late-breaking Bush DUI story.  JJ should probably stop posting here and stick to things he's better at, presuming they exist.

Oh PLEEZE, until the Oprah appearance, Bush was consistently losing to Gore.  Remember the RATS ad?  That late September bounce was Oprah.

what?  look at the graph.  from mid-September on Gore never led (until election day).  you claimed Gore had a 3-7% lead a month before the election when he was in reality down by mid-single digits.  I know you don't like facts, but this is a difficult stretch to pull off.

re-reading your post, I'm not 100% sure that you aren't joking, but I'll assume that you're being serious.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 26, 2008, 03:03:11 PM
In other words, J.J. got the year right, he just got the wrong name.

I think the last candidate to lead by this much and lose was Gore, as the chart shows. 

The mid to late September peek and the smaller peek in October.  You also have to remember that it was an earlier convention.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: True Democrat on September 26, 2008, 03:07:47 PM
Unless McCain has at least a Kerry-type game changer, I think it's over for him.

You said IIRC that the debates may sway your vote (?) How do things stand at the moment?

Unless McCain changes something about his campaign or how he presents himself, I may just vote for Obama.

I desperately want to vote for McCain (especially the McCain of 2000).  I just don't know if I can.

My heart says McCain, but my head is starting to lean towards Obama.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: riceowl on September 26, 2008, 03:32:44 PM

Whether they should, or whether they shouldn't, isn't the point.  ;)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on September 26, 2008, 03:36:23 PM
In other words, J.J. got the year right, he just got the wrong name.

I think the last candidate to lead by this much and lose was Gore, as the chart shows. 
The chart is using the media color scheme, not the sane color scheme. Look again. (Besides, Gore didn't lose the election anyhow. :P)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on September 26, 2008, 05:18:51 PM
In other words, J.J. got the year right, he just got the wrong name.

I think the last candidate to lead by this much and lose was Gore, as the chart shows. 
The chart is using the media color scheme, not the sane color scheme. Look again. (Besides, Gore didn't lose the election anyhow. :P)

that's the only justification for what he's saying, that JJ is reading the graph as the inverse of what it really is.  (and the graph of course tracks PV, which Gore did win, so there's no :P necessary)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 26, 2008, 07:42:09 PM
In other words, J.J. got the year right, he just got the wrong name.

I think the last candidate to lead by this much and lose was Gore, as the chart shows. 
The chart is using the media color scheme, not the sane color scheme. Look again. (Besides, Gore didn't lose the election anyhow. :P)

that's the only justification for what he's saying, that JJ is reading the graph as the inverse of what it really is.  (and the graph of course tracks PV, which Gore did win, so there's no :P necessary)

Gore is blue:

()

What do you call that blue peek in mid September.  It was followed by Bush surge (Oprah) and then a slight uptick for Gore.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on September 26, 2008, 07:47:10 PM
Original quote:

Who exactly was the last candidate to lose with a 3-7% lead 1 month before the election ?

Gore, I think.

The last time Gore was up by 3% was mid-September.  He was never up by anywhere near 3% in the final month, let alone consistently.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 26, 2008, 07:49:33 PM
Original quote:

Who exactly was the last candidate to lose with a 3-7% lead 1 month before the election ?

Gore, I think.

The last time Gore was up by 3% was mid-September.  He was never up by anywhere near 3% in the final month, let alone consistently.

Since we are not in the last month, as of yet, I preferred at this time. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on September 26, 2008, 07:55:00 PM
I'm reasonably sure Tender Branson's post (maybe my monitor is wrong) says "1 month," not "45 days."

In fact, Gore didn't even lead by 3 after September 26th, 2000.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 26, 2008, 08:22:17 PM


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Moooooo on September 26, 2008, 09:12:14 PM
Just curious... are there any live focus groups rating the debate?  link?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 26, 2008, 10:08:51 PM
Just curious... are there any live focus groups rating the debate?  link?

CNN did it live.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 26, 2008, 10:14:49 PM
Just curious... are there any live focus groups rating the debate?  link?

CNN did it live.

Did you notice how the CNN "Indies" seemed to move exactly as the Democratic line did? I bet they weren't actual indies.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 26, 2008, 10:58:59 PM
Just curious... are there any live focus groups rating the debate?  link?

CNN did it live.

Did you notice how the CNN "Indies" seemed to move exactly as the Democratic line did? I bet they weren't actual indies.

I didn't see that. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on September 27, 2008, 12:42:32 AM
Just curious... are there any live focus groups rating the debate?  link?

CNN did it live.

Did you notice how the CNN "Indies" seemed to move exactly as the Democratic line did? I bet they weren't actual indies.

Or the indies liked Obama better on the issues. But no its a CONZPIRACCY!!!!

Btw Obama won amongst the Fox focus group as well.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 27, 2008, 12:44:41 AM
Just curious... are there any live focus groups rating the debate?  link?

CNN did it live.

Did you notice how the CNN "Indies" seemed to move exactly as the Democratic line did? I bet they weren't actual indies.

Or the indies liked Obama better on the issues. But no its a CONZPIRACCY!!!!

Btw Obama won amongst the Fox focus group as well.

The most recent polling put it at a tie.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on September 27, 2008, 12:46:08 AM
Just curious... are there any live focus groups rating the debate?  link?

CNN did it live.

Did you notice how the CNN "Indies" seemed to move exactly as the Democratic line did? I bet they weren't actual indies.

Or the indies liked Obama better on the issues. But no its a CONZPIRACCY!!!!

Btw Obama won amongst the Fox focus group as well.

The most recent polling put it at a tie.

I was talking specifically about the focus group. I watched the CNN focus group so I know the winner there and I heard even the Fox focus group thought Obama won. We will see what the overall public thought in the next few days. I think Mccain did better than many on this forum think.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on September 27, 2008, 12:51:57 AM
Just curious... are there any live focus groups rating the debate?  link?

CNN did it live.

Did you notice how the CNN "Indies" seemed to move exactly as the Democratic line did? I bet they weren't actual indies.

Or the indies liked Obama better on the issues. But no its a CONZPIRACCY!!!!

Btw Obama won amongst the Fox focus group as well.

The most recent polling put it at a tie.

I was talking specifically about the focus group. I watched the CNN focus group so I know the winner there and I heard even the Fox focus group thought Obama won. We will see what the overall public thought in the next few days. I think Mccain did better than many on this forum think.

That Luntz group on FoxNews contained no true undecided voters when the people who felt Obama won started spouting Obama talking points like "McCain looked just like George Bush tonight." If you've bought into that, you aren't an undecided voter.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on September 27, 2008, 01:08:46 AM
Just curious... are there any live focus groups rating the debate?  link?

CNN did it live.

Did you notice how the CNN "Indies" seemed to move exactly as the Democratic line did? I bet they weren't actual indies.

Or the indies liked Obama better on the issues. But no its a CONZPIRACCY!!!!

Btw Obama won amongst the Fox focus group as well.

The most recent polling put it at a tie.

I was talking specifically about the focus group. I watched the CNN focus group so I know the winner there and I heard even the Fox focus group thought Obama won. We will see what the overall public thought in the next few days. I think Mccain did better than many on this forum think.

That Luntz group on FoxNews contained no true undecided voters when the people who felt Obama won started spouting Obama talking points like "McCain looked just like George Bush tonight." If you've bought into that, you aren't an undecided voter.

I don't know about that. Maybe he didn't feel like that before but his opinion changed tonight? I am sure he has heard of the attack before and perhaps he saw that become true tonight? I didn't see it so I cannot comment further.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on September 27, 2008, 12:02:52 PM
Saturday - September 27, 2008:

Obama - 49% (+1)
McCain - 44% (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 27, 2008, 12:04:39 PM
Saturday-September 27, 2008
Obama 49%(+1)
McCain 44%(-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 27, 2008, 12:05:03 PM
Bleh


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nutmeg on September 27, 2008, 12:11:18 PM
Was Friday's sample taken before or after the debate?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 27, 2008, 12:12:59 PM
Was Friday's sample taken before or after the debate?

Mostly before.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: King on September 27, 2008, 12:16:58 PM
I can't wait until the Monday or Tuesday results for the weekend.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on September 27, 2008, 12:53:04 PM

Plenty of time left... Plenty.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 27, 2008, 02:47:24 PM
Gallup and Rasmussen agree... and all is right with the world again.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 27, 2008, 04:38:30 PM
Saturday - September 27, 2008:

Obama - 49% (+1)
McCain - 44% (-1)

Good to see.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 27, 2008, 05:08:03 PM
McCain is finished.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 28, 2008, 10:31:48 AM
Multiple Kossacks are saying a Gallup guy was on tv reporting that today's poll will show Obama +8. It's unclear if it's the tracking poll or the regular Gallup poll, but would they release a regular poll on a Sunday?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 28, 2008, 10:35:13 AM
Multiple Kossacks are saying a Gallup guy was on tv reporting that today's poll will show Obama +8. It's unclear if it's the tracking poll or the regular Gallup poll, but would they release a regular poll on a Sunday?

I heard the same thing myself.

I don't think that USA Today/Gallup can put out a poll this quick - they would at least have to finish the interviews sometime this afternoon, most likely.  So it has to be the tracking poll.

Considering that the sample which drops off today is actually pro-McCain (it had to be at least McCain by a couple to get the Thursday result), my guess is that Rasmussen and Gallup had a similar sample today - Obama +6 to 8 or so.  If things continue as they should, Rasmussen will probably bump up to where Gallup is tomorrow.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 28, 2008, 12:02:31 PM
Obama 50 (+1)
McCain 42 (-2)

:)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on September 28, 2008, 12:03:06 PM


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 28, 2008, 12:05:31 PM
If it's this next week I will be worried, but since we are still five weeks to go, I will keep some optimism.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 28, 2008, 12:12:07 PM
Multiple Kossacks are saying a Gallup guy was on tv reporting that today's poll will show Obama +8. It's unclear if it's the tracking poll or the regular Gallup poll, but would they release a regular poll on a Sunday?

btw, the Gallup guy was Frank Newport.  He is the guy at Gallup.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on September 28, 2008, 12:32:53 PM
Gallup:   50 - 42
Diaego:  47 - 42
R2k/DK: 50 - 43
Rass:     50 - 44
Average: 49.25 - 42.75

Obama +6.5


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 28, 2008, 12:36:39 PM

I semi-agree, but there is time until the election (even though I can't see any possible way he will make up 8 points of ground.)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on September 28, 2008, 12:37:31 PM

Frank Newport's take:

These results, from Sept. 25-27, span the time period since John McCain made the announcement that he was temporarily suspending his campaign and returning to Washington to work for a bipartisan solution to the financial crisis, and since Congressional leaders first announced progress towards the resolution of a financial bailout bill. The results also include one complete day (Saturday) after the first presidential debate on Friday night. McCain had reached a point where he was tied with Obama earlier in the week, but Obama has gained steadily in each of the last three days' reports. Overall, Obama has gained four percentage points over the last three days, while McCain has lost four points, for an eight-point swing in the "gap" or margin.

The full impact of the debate and its aftermath will not be reflected in the tracking data until Tuesday's report, which will be based on interviewing conducted Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. Still, Gallup's one-day read on the standing of the two candidates on Saturday suggests that Obama held the lead over McCain among registered voters that night, just as he had for the two previous nights.

Obama reached an eight-point lead or higher twice before, once after his highly publicized foreign tour to Afghanistan, Iraq, and Europe in July, and once after the Democratic National Convention. In both of these instances, Obama's relatively large lead was short-lived; McCain came charging back to tie the race in both cases. Thus history would suggest the potential for future shifts in voter preferences and for McCain to bounce back once again.

Additionally, major news events relating to the campaign will be forthcoming over the next several weeks -- including the final resolution of Congress' efforts to pass a financial bailout bill and three more debates (two presidential, and one vice presidential), all of which could have the potential for future shifts in voter preferences. Obama has held at least a moderate edge over McCain for the vast majority of the days of Gallup Poll Daily tracking since June, and overall has led by an average of about three points in the over 100,000 interviews conducted by Gallup during this time period.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 28, 2008, 12:37:43 PM


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on September 28, 2008, 12:44:42 PM


Ah, how beautiful. There are few things more pleasing to my ears than the sound of thousands of Republicans crying out in agony.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on September 28, 2008, 01:13:30 PM
I suspect it is close to a done deal now. Sad. Obama passed the gravitas test, and is a very skillful trimmer. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: JohnCA246 on September 28, 2008, 01:38:38 PM
Lot of time left. Im thankful I'm in my shoes and not the GOP's, but there is time.  Three more debates to, and I expect the GOP to go REALLY negative if things dont improve. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on September 28, 2008, 01:52:44 PM
Gallup:   50 - 42
Diaego:  47 - 42
R2k/DK: 50 - 43
Rass:     50 - 44
Average: 49.25 - 42.75

Obama +6.5


It's Obama+7 if we include R2000's sample from yesterday, which showed Obama up 51-42.

Tomorrow's Rasmussen polls should be funny.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ty440 on September 28, 2008, 02:02:38 PM
I suspect it is close to a done deal now. Sad. Obama passed the gravitas test, and is a very skillful trimmer. 

We still have over a month!  A month!  Just in the course of a month, Democrats were down in the dumps, anticipating a President McCain, but this whole financial crisis has turned things around.  There may be more surprises ahead.  In fact, given what we've seen so far, it's almost certain that there will be another "game-changing" moment.  But who will be the beneficiary is unknown.

Amen. I feel good about Florida, I feel Good about Ohio. I do believe Mac will hold on to Virginia, I just don't see Obama greatly improving on the white vote from Kerry there, Bush only got 10% of the African-American vote in Virginia in 2004 so that's a wash.

Remember only 72 hours ago Gallup had it it tied, Remember that huge Obama bounce when he was in Germany. In less than 5 days it was gone.

When Obama starts constantly polling above 53% in PA and MI and CO  ..then Ill start worrying


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 28, 2008, 02:04:56 PM
I'm not sure that we should be expecting major movement towards Obama in all of the swing states just yet. I bet he is really just absolutely smashing McCain in New York, California, Maryland, etc. now.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on September 28, 2008, 02:13:17 PM
This whole economic mess is causing Obama to jump out to a lead. Once it settles down, I suspect the race will tighten again. It's still very fluid with high undecideds. It's far from over, but it's not looking good for McCain. But a few weeks ago it was looking quite the opposite. This has been one strange election season, and I'm sure we have some more surprises ahead.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 28, 2008, 02:18:20 PM
The numbers, at this point, are crisis driven; the crisis ends, the Obama lead ends.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ucscgaldamez on September 28, 2008, 02:23:08 PM
So, before the RNC, when Obama was leading, it was based on a crisis? (summer)  ridiculous.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 28, 2008, 02:23:54 PM
The numbers, at this point, are crisis driven; the crisis ends, the Obama lead ends.

Talk about wishful thinking...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ucscgaldamez on September 28, 2008, 02:25:15 PM
I didn't know we had a summer crisis.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 28, 2008, 02:31:57 PM

Was Obama up eight points throughout the summer?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sensei on September 28, 2008, 02:37:07 PM
The numbers, at this point, are crisis driven; the crisis ends, the Obama lead ends.
SAY SOMETHING NON-HACKISH FOR ONCE


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Smash255 on September 28, 2008, 02:37:45 PM

Was Obama up eight points throughout the summer?

No, however that doesn't mean that Obama's lead now is because of the Wall Street Crisis and will go away once its solved


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 28, 2008, 02:38:15 PM
The numbers, at this point, are crisis driven; the crisis ends, the Obama lead ends.
SAY SOMETHING NON-HACKISH FOR ONCE

()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on September 28, 2008, 02:38:47 PM

For some reason I was thinking of the same.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on September 28, 2008, 02:42:18 PM

Was Obama up eight points throughout the summer?

No, however that doesn't mean that Obama's lead now is because of the Wall Street Crisis and will go away once its solved

What suggests it won't? You may be right, but every time someone has gotten out to a large lead, it's usually evaporated in a week. Obama took off once this Wall St. crisis became really big in the news with this bailout being touted as the only way our economy doesn't collapse. Once the bailout passes, things should settle down. We should stop seeing 300-400 point swings daily in the markets, and Obama's lead will subside. I'm not saying he'll lose the lead, but it won't remain at 8 points.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on September 28, 2008, 02:43:58 PM

Was Obama up eight points throughout the summer?

No, however that doesn't mean that Obama's lead now is because of the Wall Street Crisis and will go away once its solved

This big lead isn't because of what's happening on Wall Street?

I need to visit your little world someday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ucscgaldamez on September 28, 2008, 02:53:35 PM
I do agree with Phil that the large lead has to do with the crisis. However, the point was not the large lead, but about Obama leading during the summer. The point was not about how much he was leading, at least not my point.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on September 28, 2008, 03:00:28 PM
Bad news for Obama. Given his weekend bounce and the crisis, he should be ahead by more.

In all seriousness, I would think McCain should benefit from any crisis due to his greater experience thus allowing him to be better able to handle and respond to such situations. It would seem that's what people are primarily referring to when they favor McCain on the basis of experience.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on September 28, 2008, 03:01:54 PM
I do agree with Phil that the large lead has to do with the crisis. However, the point was not the large lead, but about Obama leading during the summer. The point was not about how much he was leading, at least not my point.

Well, he lead through summer really doesn't mean anything. Dukakis led through the summer of 1988 as well, and I believe Bush/Perot and Carter did too. He was behind after the conventions and then regains the lead because the bottom was about to fall out on Wall Street and people blamed the Administration for it.

If things were fine, then McCain would be in much better shape. The public feels like Obama will better handle the economy, so it's no surprise he's leading by a large margin.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 28, 2008, 03:05:11 PM
I agree this lead won't last; by Thursday I expect it to be around Obama +3, but not more than that.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: big bad fab on September 28, 2008, 03:17:55 PM
Bad news for Obama. Given his weekend bounce and the crisis, he should be ahead by more.

In all seriousness, I would think McCain should benefit from any crisis due to his greater experience thus allowing him to be better able to handle and respond to such situations. It would seem that's what people are primarily referring to when they favor McCain on the basis of experience.

I agree.

"My friends", I'm very sad to say that it's now too late: Palin will lose her debate; Obama will just need to have 2 so-called tied debates (he doesn't need to attack); McCain is no longer campaigning enough (do you see him in VA, FL, NV, OH these days ? and I don't even mention CO.... and what about having a field team in IN ?).

As I have said in another thread, Bill Clinton (yes, this one from the Clintons' Millenial Saga) is out campaigning for McCain (no answer to an "experienced" Obama; Todd Palin "what a guy"; Sarah "hmmmm"; good friend McCain; etc....), but even that (a complete betrayal, I would say) is no longer put on front page by the MSM: a sign that whatever McCain tries to do ou whatever happens, the MSM won't let him come back.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ucscgaldamez on September 28, 2008, 03:33:07 PM
I agree. The media helps Obama, and I don't think that will change. The McCain campaign needs a game changer, however, they need to be careful about what kind of narrative they will be creating given the fact that the media will not go along.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Gustaf on September 28, 2008, 03:57:37 PM
As a general comment I would appreciate if all the "hurrah" and "nooo" stuff would be somewhere else...it's annoying to have to go back two pages every time in order to get to the polls.

But as I'm writing this already I guess I can add to the mess. :P

It looks bad for McCain though. Still, this is obviously a "crisis effect." Unless things continue to look bad I expect the current lead to diminish. Bottom line though: McCain probably needs a "move" to shake things up and move it in his direction. The question is whether there is any such feasible move left for him?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on September 28, 2008, 04:01:51 PM
As a general comment I would appreciate if all the "hurrah" and "nooo" stuff would be somewhere else...it's annoying to have to go back two pages every time in order to get to the polls.

But as I'm writing this already I guess I can add to the mess. :P

It looks bad for McCain though. Still, this is obviously a "crisis effect." Unless things continue to look bad I expect the current lead to diminish. Bottom line though: McCain probably needs a "move" to shake things up and move it in his direction. The question is whether there is any such feasible move left for him?

Or you could just go to Gallup.com


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Gustaf on September 28, 2008, 04:40:42 PM
As a general comment I would appreciate if all the "hurrah" and "nooo" stuff would be somewhere else...it's annoying to have to go back two pages every time in order to get to the polls.

But as I'm writing this already I guess I can add to the mess. :P

It looks bad for McCain though. Still, this is obviously a "crisis effect." Unless things continue to look bad I expect the current lead to diminish. Bottom line though: McCain probably needs a "move" to shake things up and move it in his direction. The question is whether there is any such feasible move left for him?

Or you could just go to Gallup.com

Sure, but I like to be able to check all the latest trackers on here. It's an eternal problem...it's just that it's worse lately. I don't mind the analysis, of course.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 28, 2008, 04:57:01 PM
Economic fears are interesting.  Americans lose faith in the economy EXTREMELY quickly, but they don't gain faith back in the economy anywhere near as fast.  It's pretty well documented that consumer confidence ticks upward a small amount every month.

JJ predicting that "As soon as the crisis fades, so does Obama's lead" is a false prognostication, because I doubt most of the electorate can just flip a switch in 40 days and start thinking about  Iraq and whatnot again.  If the economy recovers fully in the next couple weeks, it's good for McCain, but there will still be a lingering strong dissatisfaction of, and focus on, the economy for many months ahead among a sizable (dare I say, majority?) amount of voters.

That said, 8%= rad.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on September 29, 2008, 02:02:45 AM
Well, it wasn't to hard to predict the media would give the "win" to Obama. I knew that no matter how well McCain did they were going to say Obama won.  The media is completely carrying all the water for Obama. They are doing everything they can to get him in office it's quite obvious. Obama and the Democrats are NOT being attacked for their policies which created this housing crisis. The Politically Correct loans are not being pointed out by either McCain or his camp. Need I really go on? Lets just get ready for a president Obama. And I'll get ready to give Mr Neophyte one big number one finger when he takes the oath.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 29, 2008, 02:08:56 AM
I'm amazed by the amount of Republicans on here who seem to have completely given up. It's a little early for that, i'd say. It's not even October yet.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on September 29, 2008, 02:10:18 AM
I'm amazed by the amount of Republicans on here who seem to have completely given up. It's a little early for that, i'd say. It's not even October yet.

Yes, but overall, outside of this forum, most Americans are simply just to ignorant to do any research themselves.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 29, 2008, 02:11:05 AM
Well, it wasn't to hard to predict the media would give the "win" to Obama. I knew that no matter how well McCain did they were going to say Obama won.  The media is completely carrying all the water for Obama. They are doing everything they can to get him in office it's quite obvious. Obama and the Democrats are NOT being attacked for their policies which created this housing crisis. The Politically Correct loans are not being pointed out by either McCain or his camp. Need I really go on? Lets just get ready for a president Obama. And I'll get ready to give Mr Neophyte one big number one finger when he takes the oath.

Actually, the slight majority of media pundits, including left-leaning ones, like Greg Sargent on the incredibly left-leaning site, TalkingPointsMemo, gave the win to McCain.  I don't know what the heck you are talking about.

It was the flashpolls that gave the win to Obama, and the media relied on these multiple polls of undecided viewers to analyze the debate in the days after.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on September 29, 2008, 02:43:43 AM
No, the media is in the bag for Obama. I'd bet my next paycheck that this is the following outcome of the debates as "analyzed" by the media :

Palin/Biden : Biden Win
McCain/Obama 2 debates : Obama win or slight win.

I wouldn't expect the filthy liars in the media to give any other result.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on September 29, 2008, 02:44:49 AM
The numbers, at this point, are crisis driven; the crisis ends, the Obama lead ends.
SAY SOMETHING NON-HACKISH FOR ONCE

I didn't say the crisis would end or would end soon enough, but that has been driving the numbers.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on September 29, 2008, 02:56:16 AM
No, the media is in the bag for Obama. I'd bet my next paycheck that this is the following outcome of the debates as "analyzed" by the media :

Palin/Biden : Biden Win
McCain/Obama 2 debates : Obama win or slight win.

I wouldn't expect the filthy liars in the media to give any other result.

Not to mention those filthy liars in the general public who keep saying in polls that Obama won, too. :)

Taken of people who had just finished watching the debates and not had a chance to digest any media analysis.

Of course, the media spun the 2000 debates that Gore won, right? ;)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on September 29, 2008, 02:59:02 AM
No, the media is in the bag for Obama. I'd bet my next paycheck that this is the following outcome of the debates as "analyzed" by the media :

Palin/Biden : Biden Win
McCain/Obama 2 debates : Obama win or slight win.

I wouldn't expect the filthy liars in the media to give any other result.

Not to mention those filthy liars in the general public who keep saying in polls that Obama won, too. :)

Taken of people who had just finished watching the debates and not had a chance to digest any media analysis.

Of course, the media spun the 2000 debates that Gore won, right? ;)

Polls are just catnip for pundits. Fun to look at but not very reliable and I'm a huge skeptic of polls.

You should be happy. The media is on board fully towards electing your socialist buddy.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 29, 2008, 03:01:40 AM
Winning the debate spin is more important than winning the debate. In 2004 most pundits agreed Bush won the second debate and the third was basically considered a tie, but Kerry's team had better media spin. By the end it became a talking point Kerry won all three debates. That's basically happened with the first debate. I still haven't seen it yet so I'm not saying who actually won but there's no doubt Obama won the media spin. Of course McCain's little suspension stunt no doubt helped in that.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on September 29, 2008, 03:03:21 AM
Winning the debate spin is more important than winning the debate. In 2004 most pundits agreed Bush won the second debate and the third was basically considered a tie, but Kerry's team had better media spin. By the end it became a talking point Kerry won all three debates. That's basically happened with the first debate. I still haven't seen it yet so I'm not saying who actually won but there's no doubt Obama won the media spin. Of course McCain's little suspension stunt no doubt helped in that.

Not hard when you have the full force of the media at your back, like the wind in sails.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 29, 2008, 03:05:02 AM
Winning the debate spin is more important than winning the debate. In 2004 most pundits agreed Bush won the second debate and the third was basically considered a tie, but Kerry's team had better media spin. By the end it became a talking point Kerry won all three debates. That's basically happened with the first debate. I still haven't seen it yet so I'm not saying who actually won but there's no doubt Obama won the media spin. Of course McCain's little suspension stunt no doubt helped in that.

Not hard when you have the full force of the media at your back, like the wind in sails.

The reason is more McCain's suspending his campaign stunt as I noticed. As for 2004, it mostly came from how awful Bush was in the first debate. He was so bad that the idea of him winning a debate became laughable even if he did perform better later. If Bush had performed decent in the first debate and tanked in the third, he probably would've won the spin for the second.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Joe Republic on September 29, 2008, 05:09:29 AM
Not hard when you have the full force of the media at your back, like the wind in sails.

...

The media is on board fully towards electing your socialist buddy.
The media is in the bag for Obama so by default, Biden win.
No, the media is in the bag for Obama. I'd bet my next paycheck that this is the following outcome of the debates as "analyzed" by the media :

Palin/Biden : Biden Win
McCain/Obama 2 debates : Obama win or slight win.

I wouldn't expect the filthy liars in the media to give any other result.
Well, it wasn't to hard to predict the media would give the "win" to Obama. I knew that no matter how well McCain did they were going to say Obama won.  The media is completely carrying all the water for Obama. They are doing everything they can to get him in office it's quite obvious.
Well, it's quite obvious to anyone who doesn't read the lying newspapers that we've pretty much won the Iraq war.



()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: The Ex-Factor on September 29, 2008, 09:52:09 AM
never mind


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Firefly on September 29, 2008, 11:38:55 AM
Not hard when you have the full force of the media at your back, like the wind in sails.

...

The media is on board fully towards electing your socialist buddy.
The media is in the bag for Obama so by default, Biden win.
No, the media is in the bag for Obama. I'd bet my next paycheck that this is the following outcome of the debates as "analyzed" by the media :

Palin/Biden : Biden Win
McCain/Obama 2 debates : Obama win or slight win.

I wouldn't expect the filthy liars in the media to give any other result.
Well, it wasn't to hard to predict the media would give the "win" to Obama. I knew that no matter how well McCain did they were going to say Obama won.  The media is completely carrying all the water for Obama. They are doing everything they can to get him in office it's quite obvious.
Well, it's quite obvious to anyone who doesn't read the lying newspapers that we've pretty much won the Iraq war.



()

Detecting a theme?  It appears StatesRights has entered the first stage of grief, denial, specifically denial of responsibility:

Quote
Denial of responsibility: This form of denial involves avoiding personal responsibility by blaming, minimizing or justifying. Blaming is a direct statement shifting culpability and may overlap with denial of fact.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 29, 2008, 12:02:46 PM
Monday, September 29, 2008
Obama 50% (nc)
McCain 42% (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Thomas Jackson on September 29, 2008, 12:04:31 PM
Quote
Detecting a theme?  It appears StatesRights has entered the first stage of grief, denial, specifically denial of responsibility:

No, StatesRights is exactly right. Those on the left vastly underestimate the absolute hatred that this election has generated for the media.

Many of us now regard the media as nothing more than political terrorists. They are vile scum, liars of the worst order.

There are consequences to everything. And the media has yet to see the consequences of their decision to become the "Pravda of Amerika."

The fallout from this will be massive.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 29, 2008, 12:08:34 PM
A day of very little movement in the tracking polls. Fine by me, considering where the race stands. :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Firefly on September 29, 2008, 12:12:19 PM
Quote
Detecting a theme?  It appears StatesRights has entered the first stage of grief, denial, specifically denial of responsibility:

No, StatesRights is exactly right. Those on the left vastly underestimate the absolute hatred that this election has generated for the media.

Many of us now regard the media as nothing more than political terrorists. They are vile scum, liars of the worst order.

There are consequences to everything. And the media has yet to see the consequences of their decision to become the "Pravda of Amerika."

The fallout from this will be massive.


rofl!  You obviously have your finger on the pulse of America.  Or not.

Oh, and it appears that ghostmonkey has already advanced to the 2nd stage of grief, anger.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on September 29, 2008, 12:13:32 PM
Quote
Detecting a theme?  It appears StatesRights has entered the first stage of grief, denial, specifically denial of responsibility:

No, StatesRights is exactly right. Those on the left vastly underestimate the absolute hatred that this election has generated for the media.

Many of us now regard the media as nothing more than political terrorists. They are vile scum, liars of the worst order.

There are consequences to everything. And the media has yet to see the consequences of their decision to become the "Pravda of Amerika."

The fallout from this will be massive.


rofl!  You obviously have your finger on the pulse of America.  Or not.

Pulse of America, no.  Pulse of right-wing Republicans in this country (e.g. those who post on FR), possibly.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on September 29, 2008, 12:14:19 PM
Quote
Detecting a theme?  It appears StatesRights has entered the first stage of grief, denial, specifically denial of responsibility:

No, StatesRights is exactly right. Those on the left vastly underestimate the absolute hatred that this election has generated for the media.

Many of us now regard the media as nothing more than political terrorists. They are vile scum, liars of the worst order.

There are consequences to everything. And the media has yet to see the consequences of their decision to become the "Pravda of Amerika."

The fallout from this will be massive.


Faux news is a million times worse than anything the rest of the media does. In fact many still keep up with the "maverick" theme when Mccain obviously isn't one. He might have been in 2000 but he basically agrees with everything Bush and the republicans say now. Yet the media have always been friendly to him. Of course Palin deserves all the scorn she has got, except for the stuff about her daughter. In any case that was mostly the blogs who did that. Palin's interview has shown she is incapable of serving as President and Vice president and the media called her on it. Now stop your whining.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck on September 29, 2008, 12:24:12 PM
The media has been nothing but friendly to McCain and Palin.  God, Palin should be getting destroyed for those embarrassing interviews. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Thomas Jackson on September 29, 2008, 12:31:39 PM
Quote
rofl!  You obviously have your finger on the pulse of America.  Or not.

Oh, and it appears that ghostmonkey has already advanced to the 2nd stage of grief, anger.

I find it amazing that Obama supporters operate from narrow set of talking points, no matter where they post on the net.

The "stages of grief/dying" talking point is on almost every liberal political forum that I have visited. Can you people at least demonstrate some independent thought?

FYI: The "stages of grief/dying" talking point can only be correct if the election is important enough to grieve/die over.

Leftists who believe that government is their shepherd might believe that, but I know of no conservative who does. Conservatives realize that government only has as much power as the people voluntarily cede to them. As the 2nd Amendment is alive and well in this country, there is only so much that a leftist government could get away with.

I know that thought might devastate many on the left, but it is a categorical truth.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Thomas Jackson on September 29, 2008, 12:33:05 PM
Quote
Faux news is a million times worse than anything the rest of the media does. In fact many still keep up with the "maverick" theme when Mccain obviously isn't one. He might have been in 2000 but he basically agrees with everything Bush and the republicans say now. Yet the media have always been friendly to him. Of course Palin deserves all the scorn she has got, except for the stuff about her daughter. In any case that was mostly the blogs who did that. Palin's interview has shown she is incapable of serving as President and Vice president and the media called her on it. Now stop your whining.

Fox objective reports both sides of a story. That's why the left hates them so much. They want one-sided Pravda coverage. Not objective reporting that allows the people to make a decision.

That's why Fox is hated by the left. They don't want the conservative side reported on anywhere.

Palin has more experience, and is more capable than Obama. The media knows this, so they run attack story after attack story, day in, day out.

For the most part they have left McCain alone. Everything has been targeted at Palin. Why? Because Palin represents what the elitists in the media hate the most. A down-to-earth Christian Conservative, who happens to be a woman.

The media hates her because of her faith. It's a secular jihad against Christians.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Firefly on September 29, 2008, 12:37:13 PM
Quote
rofl!  You obviously have your finger on the pulse of America.  Or not.

Oh, and it appears that ghostmonkey has already advanced to the 2nd stage of grief, anger.

I find it amazing that Obama supporters operate from narrow set of talking points, no matter where they post on the net.

The "stages of grief/dying" talking point is on almost every liberal political forum that I have visited. Can you people at least demonstrate some independent thought?

FYI: The "stages of grief/dying" talking point can only be correct if the election is important enough to grieve/die over.

Leftists who believe that government is their shepherd might believe that, but I know of no conservative who does. Conservatives realize that government only has as much power as the people voluntarily cede to them. As the 2nd Amendment is alive and well in this country, there is only so much that a leftist government could get away with.

I know that thought might devastate many on the left, but it is a categorical truth.

I'm sure you visit liberal political forums more than I do </sarcasm>, but I haven't seen anyone talking about the stages of grief.  Don't fret, acceptance is only two more stages away.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Thomas Jackson on September 29, 2008, 12:38:55 PM
Quote
The media has been nothing but friendly to McCain and Palin.  God, Palin should be getting destroyed for those embarrassing interviews.

There is nothing wrong with Palin's interviews, other than the fact that she has been interviewed by partisan hacks (Couric and Gibson) who are willfully conducting the interviews in a "gotcha" manner.

Considering what she is up against, she has done a magnificent job.

The left would love to believe that Palin is a drooling idiot. Fact is, she is an accomplished executive, she is well-spoken, and she is the governor of the largest State in the country.

The filthy blowhards on internet boards and in the media are not capable of running a board meeting, let alone a city or State.

Thing is, deep down the scum know that they can't hold a candle to Palin. So they resort to trashing her.




Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Thomas Jackson on September 29, 2008, 12:42:17 PM
Quote
I'm sure you visit liberal political forums more than I do </sarcasm>, but I haven't seen anyone talking about the stages of grief.  Don't fret, acceptance is only two more stages away.

I realize that you are attempting sarcasm, but it is likely that I DO visit liberal political forums more than you do. I like to read the talking points before they get repeated elsewhere.

And yes, the "stages of grief" narrative is plastered all over them.

What's more, it's not even a new narrative. Laughably, liberals had the EXACT same narrative going in 2004.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2160846

I cannot believe that one would willingly retreat to the same tired talking points over and over, especially after that epic fail.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on September 29, 2008, 12:49:25 PM
Could you be bothered to move this exciting effort to strain to connect comments from DU in 2004 to today somewhere else?

You're interrupting our Gallup-watching.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Firefly on September 29, 2008, 12:57:52 PM
Could you be bothered to move this exciting effort to strain to connect comments from DU in 2004 to today somewhere else?

You're interrupting our Gallup-watching.

Sorry, I'll stop feeding the trolls.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on September 29, 2008, 01:06:00 PM

Many of us now regard the media as nothing more than political terrorists. They are vile scum, liars of the worst order.

You must have some polls showing widespread public support for the media before 2008, only to have it go downhill because of its coverage this year.

I'll take your word for it that Republicans approved on the media up until this moment, and only now got angry.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on September 29, 2008, 01:27:13 PM
From now on, if you converse with ghostmonkey, you are retarded. No exceptions.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Thomas Jackson on September 29, 2008, 01:29:21 PM
Quote
Sorry, I'll stop feeding the trolls.

Quote
From now on, if you converse with ghostmonkey, you are retarded. No exceptions.

See that little ignore button up there next to my name? Why don't you press it?

You guys were ganging up on StatesRights. I pointed out that he was right. Someone attacked him with the same "stages of grief" narrative that is plastered all over liberal internet boards. I pointed out that not only is this talking point all over the web, it isn't even new, and has been going on since at least 2004.

If you people don't want to hear the other side of the coin, why not use the ignore feature instead of playing the schoolyard gang-up game?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 29, 2008, 01:31:25 PM
Quote
Sorry, I'll stop feeding the trolls.

Quote
From now on, if you converse with ghostmonkey, you are retarded. No exceptions.

See that little ignore button up there next to my name? Why don't you press it?

This is ghostmonkey's first decent post ever. Incidentally it's also the last I'll ever read.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Thomas Jackson on September 29, 2008, 01:33:06 PM
Quote
This is ghostmonkey's first decent post ever. Incidentally it's also the last I'll ever read.

Wonderful, I invite others to take the same step.

At least you are consistent.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: NOVA Green on September 29, 2008, 01:35:04 PM
Monday, September 29, 2008
Obama 50% (nc)
McCain 42% (nc)

Considering that much of this spread is the result in drop in McCain's support, rather than an improvement, I would expect Obama's lead to narrow slightly before Thursday.

Of course the debates could change this, and Obama could finally cross the crucial 50% mark.

The big wildcard over the next few days is how McCain and Obama respond to the failure of the "bailout package".



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 29, 2008, 03:39:28 PM
Monday, September 29, 2008
Obama 50% (nc)
McCain 42% (nc)

Surprsing; I expect Obama to bounce up tomorrow, given the debate/dying economy.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: NOVA Green on September 29, 2008, 03:54:11 PM
Any bets on Obama's chances of briefly taking a 10 point lead, once the implications of this start to sink in?

We still haven't heard any real responses from either candidate to date to today's news.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 29, 2008, 05:05:03 PM
Quote
Sorry, I'll stop feeding the trolls.

Quote
From now on, if you converse with ghostmonkey, you are retarded. No exceptions.

See that little ignore button up there next to my name? Why don't you press it?

This is ghostmonkey's first decent post ever. Incidentally it's also the last I'll ever read.

Yeah, I've never used it before but I guess there is a first time for everything.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 29, 2008, 05:36:55 PM
Economic fears are interesting.  Americans lose faith in the economy EXTREMELY quickly, but they don't gain faith back in the economy anywhere near as fast.  It's pretty well documented that consumer confidence ticks upward a small amount every month.

I disagree with the statement, "As soon as the crisis fades, so does Obama's lead." because I doubt most of the electorate can just flip a switch in 40 days and start thinking about  Iraq and whatnot again.  If the economy recovers fully in the next couple weeks, it's good for McCain, but there will still be a lingering strong dissatisfaction of, and focus on, the economy for many months ahead among a sizable (dare I say, majority?) amount of voters.

That said, 8%= rad.

Since the markets dropped today worse than they did on 9/11, and there are no perfectly timed tax breaks (purely by accident in '01) to arrive right afterwards, I'm not convinced that the economy can convincingly recover itself out of most American's mind by November.


... biggest one day drop in the history of Wall Street.  Nice job Congress.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on September 29, 2008, 08:44:00 PM
Quote
Sorry, I'll stop feeding the trolls.

Quote
From now on, if you converse with ghostmonkey, you are retarded. No exceptions.

See that little ignore button up there next to my name? Why don't you press it?

You guys were ganging up on StatesRights. I pointed out that he was right. Someone attacked him with the same "stages of grief" narrative that is plastered all over liberal internet boards. I pointed out that not only is this talking point all over the web, it isn't even new, and has been going on since at least 2004.

If you people don't want to hear the other side of the coin, why not use the ignore feature instead of playing the schoolyard gang-up game?

My wife and I have had plenty of experience taking on the local papers. We are well aware of their very liberal slant and left wing bias. Not only that, but we have family members who have been INVOLVED in the media, one that worked for the largest paper in the USA for over thirty years. And when he, an FDR Democrat, tells you that the media is slanted I'd certainly believe him over the socialist retards running around on this board.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 29, 2008, 08:45:32 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on September 29, 2008, 09:01:35 PM
That's so cute that you have a link for everything. Apparently, to you, you can make no argument without it being "discredited" by some stupid link.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on September 29, 2008, 09:06:29 PM
An effective argument doesn't commit obvious, ridiculous logical fallacies, that's all.  Since I was browsing Wikipedia's list of logical fallacies at the time, the link was way convenient.  To say that you're unable to make an argument without committing a logical fallacy seems a bit overboard, but yo, whatevsky, that's cool.


Btw: Alcon, I don't care 'bout your Gallup-discussing thread ;)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kalimantan on September 30, 2008, 12:06:37 PM
Tuesday, September 30, 2008

Obama 49% (-1)
McCain 43% (+1)

This is based on interviewing conducted Sept. 27-29, spanning an intense period of negotiations over an historical financial recovery package in Congress on Friday and Saturday, news of a tentative agreement on the package on Sunday, and then collapse of the bill when it came to the House floor on Monday. It also represents the first report including three full days of tracking following Friday night's presidential debate.

Today's results mark the fourth straight day Obama has held a five percentage point or better lead over McCain in Gallup Poll Daily tracking, and two full weeks since McCain last had any advantage over Obama in national voter preferences. McCain held a slim lead over Obama for several days following the Republican National Convention in early September, but that quickly evaporated with the Wall Street financial crisis that began with the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers on Sept. 15.

Although support for Obama among national registered voters hit the 50% mark in the past two days of Gallup Poll Daily tracking (he initially attained 50% in early September), he has yet to cross that symbolic threshold. The importance of this, however, is unclear. Gallup's historical trial heat trends show that the winners in 1988, 2000 -- both years with minimal third party candidate support suppressing the vote for the major party candidates -- rarely attained 50% or greater support from registered voters prior to Gallup's final pre-election poll.

Voter support for George W. Bush only once exceeded 50% in his 2004 campaign against John Kerry, that being 53% in mid-September. In 1988, George H.W. Bush reached or surpassed the 50% mark once at the very beginning and then not again until the last two weeks of the campaign


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on September 30, 2008, 12:46:19 PM
Good news for McCain. He isn't completely dead yet.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on September 30, 2008, 12:50:30 PM
FWIW, this is the first time all year at which point all three useful tracking polls agreed with each other exactly on the margin.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on September 30, 2008, 01:13:49 PM
...And it is all 6's.

Battlground is usally decent. Just because it doesn't favor your candidate, it doesn't mean it is inaccurate.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 30, 2008, 01:34:37 PM
Tuesday, September 30, 2008

Obama 49% (-1)
McCain 43% (+1)

Very disappointing.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on September 30, 2008, 01:38:56 PM
...And it is all 6's.

Battlground is usally decent.
Not when they're weighting and non-weighting like that they aren't. So maybe they were once - but that's not stupidity anymore (which all the pointed-out minor strangenesses in the DKos thingy seem to come down to), that's quite obviously an agenda.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MODU on September 30, 2008, 01:53:45 PM
Good news for McCain. He isn't completely dead yet.

"I'm not dead yet.  I think I might go for a walk."


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on September 30, 2008, 03:35:50 PM
...And it is all 6's.

Battlground is usally decent. Just because it doesn't favor your candidate, it doesn't mean it is inaccurate.

Yes, just because it's oversampling elderly voters extremely doesn't mean it isn't bad...

The fact is, the age gap has been widening at each election. Gore won young voters by only 2 points, barely more than his national margin. So Battleground did just fine. Kerry won young voters by 9 points, so Battleground overestimated Bush by a couple of points, but nothing egregious. Obama is now leading among young voters by as much as 35 points (and on average around 20 points), so clearly Battleground is having serious difficulties. The fact that their flawed model has worked in the past does not mean it should be acceptable as a flawed model, especially when the flaws are being blatantly exposed in the current environment.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on September 30, 2008, 05:23:15 PM
Obama is running away with this election.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: exopolitician on September 30, 2008, 09:07:11 PM

lol? I'll take it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Likely Voter on September 30, 2008, 09:26:10 PM
FWIW, this is the first time all year at which point all three useful tracking polls agreed with each other exactly on the margin.

There may be something to that. Also one issue that must be of concern to McCain is that the number of undecideds seems to be dropping. People are solidifying. After two conventions and one debate...McCain needs something big to turn this thing around. I am surprised he hasn't thrown another hail mary this week...he needs something or he is going to lose big. His only consistent lead since the end of the Primaries was after his convention when he had total control of the airwaves for a week (starting with the Palin pick).



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 30, 2008, 09:27:33 PM

I'll take it, but I had hoped he would build on his lead, at least a little bit.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on September 30, 2008, 09:56:54 PM

Statistical noise is also a possibility... considering that every other tracker moved Obama's way today, and on other days they have each retreated, this is not surprising.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: King on September 30, 2008, 10:17:38 PM
Friday should be fun.  It should carry both bailout failure and VP debate samples.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Meeker on October 01, 2008, 12:05:47 PM
Wednesday, October 1, 2008

Obama 48% (-1)
McCain 44% (+1)



Very interesting...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 01, 2008, 12:15:30 PM
NOOOOOO

()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 01, 2008, 12:16:10 PM
McCainmentum!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 01, 2008, 12:18:26 PM
Wednesday, October 1, 2008

Obama 48% (-1)
McCain 44% (+1)

don't tease me like that! 

dead cat bounce?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Thomas Jackson on October 01, 2008, 12:20:12 PM
So Sam, does this mean that there were two really good McCain samples, one really good McCain sample, or something else?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on October 01, 2008, 12:21:06 PM
I don't see why Obama fans see this as a problem. He still has a 4-6 point lead.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 01, 2008, 12:22:32 PM
McCain should be tied by Friday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 01, 2008, 12:24:30 PM

you are MEAN!



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on October 01, 2008, 12:24:40 PM

LOL!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 01, 2008, 12:25:28 PM
I don't see why Obama fans see this as a problem. He still has a 4-6 point lead.

Because we're flighty and prone to mood swings.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 01, 2008, 12:29:15 PM
So Sam, does this mean that there were two really good McCain samples, one really good McCain sample, or something else?

When the chart of the last 7 days is (from beginning to end):

                           (D1)  (D2)  (D3/BO)   (today)
+/-0, O+3, O+5, O+8, O+8, O+6,        O+4

It stands to reason that the samples of the last two days were better than the two that fell off.  In fact, it is probable that this extends to all three days.

Much more than that, I can't say.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: The Vorlon on October 01, 2008, 12:46:36 PM
I don't see why Obama fans see this as a problem. He still has a 4-6 point lead.

Because we're flighty and prone to mood swings.



and erratic, and politically unsound.... :)

Don't worry.. in 20 years you will be a Libertarian or a conservative.. you are far too intelligent to continue to hold your current views.. :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 01, 2008, 12:48:17 PM
When the chart of the last 7 days is (from beginning to end):

                           (D1)  (D2)  (D3/BO)   (today)
+/-0, O+3, O+5, O+8, O+8, O+6,        O+4

is Gallup the only one showing this trend towards McCain in the last couple of days?  seems to me McCain has stabilized at 6 - 8 points behind.  but, of course, when you fall a cliff, you eventually come to rest somewhere, though you may bounce a little before coming to a final resting place.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: cinyc on October 01, 2008, 01:27:46 PM
Friday should be fun.  It should carry both bailout failure and VP debate samples.

I wouldn't expect much of a VP debate sample in Friday's polling.  No pollster will be polling the Eastern or Central time zones for their national polls when the debate ends at 10:30 Eastern/9:30 Central.  And most of the Mountain & Pacific polling will be conducted well before the end of the debate - If pollsters stop polling at 9PM, they only have about a half hour before ending Mountain polling and 1.5 hours before ending Pacific polling.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on October 01, 2008, 02:02:06 PM
Keep going, baby.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 01, 2008, 02:02:56 PM
I don't see why Obama fans see this as a problem. He still has a 4-6 point lead.

Because we're flighty and prone to mood swings.



and erratic, and politically unsound.... :)

Don't worry.. in 20 years you will be a Libertarian or a conservative.. you are far too intelligent to continue to hold your current views.. :)

Aww.  I'm actually registered Libertarian and became Democratic because I'm moonlighting 10 hours a week at an online Democratic consulting (http://www.blackrockonline.com/) firm.  So it's gone in the reverse direction :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: The Vorlon on October 01, 2008, 02:26:24 PM
I don't see why Obama fans see this as a problem. He still has a 4-6 point lead.

Because we're flighty and prone to mood swings.



and erratic, and politically unsound.... :)

Don't worry.. in 20 years you will be a Libertarian or a conservative.. you are far too intelligent to continue to hold your current views.. :)

Aww.  I'm actually registered Libertarian and became Democratic because I'm moonlighting 10 hours a week at an online Democratic consulting (http://www.blackrockonline.com/) firm.  So it's gone in the reverse direction :)

(In Darth Vader voice)...

"You cannot imagine the power of the dark side.... join me and fullfill your destiny young jedi"


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on October 01, 2008, 09:17:25 PM
I'm a libertarian... just registered Republican.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MODU on October 02, 2008, 10:42:47 AM

I'm a twenty-something trapped in an old mans body.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 02, 2008, 10:53:55 AM

I'm a twenty-something trapped in an old mans body.

Is that why you play GTA? ;)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on October 02, 2008, 12:02:41 PM
Thursday, October 2nd

Obama: 48 (NC)
McCain 43 (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 02, 2008, 12:03:32 PM
http://Thursday, October 2nd.

Obama: 48 (NC)
McCain 43 (-1)

That's more like it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MODU on October 02, 2008, 01:06:00 PM

I'm a twenty-something trapped in an old mans body.

Is that why you play GTA? ;)

hahaha . . . probably.  You should have seen me back in the day playing Pong!  I was wicked with the little twisty controller.  :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on October 02, 2008, 06:59:29 PM
http://Thursday, October 2nd.

Obama: 48 (NC)
McCain 43 (-1)

:)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on October 03, 2008, 12:03:32 PM
Friday, October 3rd

Obama: 49 (+1)
Mccain: 42 (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 03, 2008, 12:25:59 PM
Friday, October 3rd

Obama: 49 (+1)
Mccain: 42 (-1)

so the polls are in agreement again


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 04, 2008, 09:22:01 AM
Women Who Are Politically Independent: Up For Grabs? (3 October, 2008)

Independent women who are Catholic, middle-aged, middle-income split in their votes

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110938/Women-Who-Politically-Independent-Grabs.aspx

Preferences for the General Election Among Independent Female Voters

Aggregate registered voters, Sep. 1-29, 2008. Gallup Poll Daily tracking

Married: Obama 40%; McCain 48%
Not married: Obama 50%; McCain 34%

Have children under 18: Obama 48%; McCain 40%
No children under 18: Obama 43%; McCain 42%

Attend church weekly: Obama 35%; McCain 50%
Almost weekly/Monthly: Obama 47%; McCain 41%
Seldom/Never: Obama 52%; McCain 33%

18 to 34: Obama 57%; McCain 30%
35 to 54: Obama 45%; McCain 43%
55+: Obama 38%; McCain 44%

College: Obama 54%; McCain 37%
No college: Obama 41%; McCain 43%

Protestant: Obama 40%; McCain 44%
Catholic: Obama 43%; Obama 43%
No religion: Obama 66%; McCain 24%

<$2,000 per month: Obama 46%; McCain 36%
$2,000 to <$5,000: Obama 45%; McCain 43%
$5,000 to <$7,500: Obama 50%; McCain 44%
$7,5000 or more: Obama 49%; McCain 42%

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on October 04, 2008, 12:06:30 PM
Saturday, October 4th

Obama: 50 (+1)
Mccain: 42 (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on October 04, 2008, 12:07:56 PM
Good, no Palin-mentum so far.

I had the fear once this fundie is seen by 70 Mio. people on TV, the Mccain numbers would increase, but not so this time ... :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 04, 2008, 12:41:35 PM
Good, no Palin-mentum so far.

I had the fear once this fundie is seen by 70 Mio. people on TV, the Mccain numbers would increase, but not so this time ... :)

You have only one day of polling and the 'bots closed slightly.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on October 04, 2008, 01:15:56 PM
Good, no Palin-mentum so far.

I had the fear once this fundie is seen by 70 Mio. people on TV, the Mccain numbers would increase, but not so this time ... :)

You have only one day of polling and the 'bots closed slightly.

By 0.07 points...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 04, 2008, 01:31:07 PM
The last "Palin bounce" took 4-5 days to show up, lets wait a little.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on October 04, 2008, 01:31:55 PM
The last "Palin bounce" took 4-5 days to show up, lets wait a little.

why would she get a bounce if nearly every poll suggests people think she lost?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 04, 2008, 01:38:55 PM
The last "Palin bounce" took 4-5 days to show up, lets wait a little.

why would she get a bounce if nearly every poll suggests people think she lost?

Expectations.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on October 04, 2008, 01:39:50 PM
"well, I think Sarah lost, but I was expecting her to lose even worse so I'm gonna vote for McCain now!"


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on October 04, 2008, 01:42:07 PM
We won't see it till Tuesday if there is a Palin bounce.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on October 04, 2008, 01:44:41 PM
We won't see it till Tuesday if there is a Palin bounce.

Ras said his daily numbers after the debate were the same as those before, FWIW.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: riceowl on October 04, 2008, 02:03:11 PM
"well, I think Sarah lost, but I was expecting her to lose even worse so I'm gonna vote for McCain now!"

kinda sorta...but it's more "still gonna vote for McCain now."  I don't think the debate will affect her ticket's numbers


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 05, 2008, 01:26:37 AM
People are expecting a Palin debate bounce? lolz


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: CultureKing on October 05, 2008, 03:38:56 AM
People are expecting a Palin debate bounce? lolz

That's what I was thinking, there won't be a Palin debate bounce.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Gustaf on October 05, 2008, 04:20:54 AM
People are expecting a Palin debate bounce? lolz

Don't be mean to people losing their last hope, man. :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on October 05, 2008, 04:22:09 AM
Sarah Palin - the last, best hope of earth?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 05, 2008, 12:03:46 PM
People are expecting a Palin debate bounce? lolz

Don't be mean to people losing their last hope, man. :)

sorry


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Firefly on October 05, 2008, 12:08:16 PM
Sunday, October 5th

Obama: 50 (nc)
Mccain: 43 (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 05, 2008, 12:10:51 PM
MOMENTUM!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 05, 2008, 12:15:31 PM
Sunday, October 5th

Obama: 50 (nc)
Mccain: 43 (+1)

This is the ninth consecutive Gallup Poll Daily report showing Obama leading by a significant margin, tying Obama's record frontrunner streak of nine days around the time of the Democratic National Convention in late August and early September.

Today's result includes two full days of interviewing after the Oct. 2 vice presidential debate between Gov. Sarah Palin and Sen. Joe Biden, as well as after the news on Friday, Oct. 3, that Congress had passed a revised economic rescue plan to help alleviate the Wall Street financial crisis.

The race has been slightly closer on both of these two individual days (Oct. 3-4) than the previous two days. Obama held particularly large leads over McCain from Oct. 1-2, possibly resulting from Americans' focus on the Wall Street financial crisis and congressional rescue plan dominating the news at that time. Since then, support for Obama has remained about the same, at the 49% to 50% level, while support for McCain has increased slightly, with an associated decline in the percentage of undecided voters.

Monday's report will be the first based entirely on interviews conducted after the vice presidential faceoff and, as such, will be an important indicator of whether Palin's debate performance and, or any possible easing of public anxiety over the rescue package since Friday, may have benefited the Republican ticket.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 05, 2008, 12:18:40 PM
So the last two nights McCain has cut into the lead? Nice. Maybe by Tuesday we'll be down 4?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 05, 2008, 12:19:35 PM
So the last two nights McCain has cut into the lead? Nice. Maybe by Tuesday we'll be down 4?

If I had a dime for every time someone on this forum committed the trend line fallacy...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ty440 on October 05, 2008, 12:28:44 PM

I have already steeled myself for Obama to be up between 4 and 8 points until deep, deep into Oct, look for the race to tighten a week and a half before Nov4th  and the tracking poll tightening dramatically in the last 4 or 5 days Ala Gore in 2000 , Ala Ford in 1976

Flashback 30 days before the New Hampshire Primary, Mccain Looked, like he was TOAST losing to Romney in every poll by solid double digits, One would be wise to not count MAC out just yet


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on October 05, 2008, 04:30:07 PM
So the last two nights McCain has cut into the lead? Nice. Maybe by Tuesday we'll be down 4?

If I had a dime for every time someone on this forum committed the trend line fallacy...

All the strippers in Minneapolis would've moved on to respectable jobs by now?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 05, 2008, 04:43:12 PM
It might be noise or the beginnings of a trend.  We'll see.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 05, 2008, 04:58:46 PM
It might be noise or the beginnings of a trend.  We'll see.

I have never once heard you say an Obama gain of a point (or an Obama gain of ~0.07 for that matter) may be the beginning of a trend.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on October 05, 2008, 05:00:12 PM
It might be noise or the beginnings of a trend.  We'll see.

I have never once heard you say an Obama gain of a point (or an Obama gain of ~0.07 for that matter) may be the beginning of a trend.

Of course not; he doesn't support Obama.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 05, 2008, 05:15:07 PM
It might be noise or the beginnings of a trend.  We'll see.

Nothing whatsoever happened to justify any trend to McCain. 159,000 jobs were reported lost Friday

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 05, 2008, 05:32:39 PM
It might be noise or the beginnings of a trend.  We'll see.

I have never once heard you say an Obama gain of a point (or an Obama gain of ~0.07 for that matter) may be the beginning of a trend.

I think I've posted a number of times to ignore McCain increases mid-week, because he's tended to go up mid-week.  I'm interested in things that go against patter, like a smaller Obama lead on weekends.  And I'm more concerned if McCain drops in the Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday Gallup polls.

In short, if nothing in the race changed, I'd expect Obama to be either holding or increasing on this poll today.  That didn't happen.  That might be noise, or it might be something else.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on October 05, 2008, 06:03:22 PM
It might be noise or the beginnings of a trend.  We'll see.

Nothing whatsoever happened to justify any trend to McCain. 159,000 jobs were reported lost Friday

Dave

Ah, but you're forgetting about Palin's clear and unequivocal victory performance in the VP debate, and also the fact that in times of crisis, voters will side with experience.

Certainly that's gotta be it.....


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 05, 2008, 06:16:02 PM
It might be noise or the beginnings of a trend.  We'll see.

Nothing whatsoever happened to justify any trend to McCain. 159,000 jobs were reported lost Friday

Dave

Why do you think I said, it could be noise. 

There were several other things, the bailout, the VP debate.  Noise or trend, well to early to tell.  I do start looking when McCain goes down mid week and Obama goes down over a weekend on Gallup.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 06, 2008, 10:53:32 AM
It might be noise or the beginnings of a trend.  We'll see.

I have never once heard you say an Obama gain of a point (or an Obama gain of ~0.07 for that matter) may be the beginning of a trend.

I think I've posted a number of times to ignore McCain increases mid-week, because he's tended to go up mid-week.  I'm interested in things that go against patter, like a smaller Obama lead on weekends.  And I'm more concerned if McCain drops in the Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday Gallup polls.

In short, if nothing in the race changed, I'd expect Obama to be either holding or increasing on this poll today.  That didn't happen.  That might be noise, or it might be something else.

lol. J.J.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: exopolitician on October 06, 2008, 10:54:23 AM
Gallup is always the last to release numbers. >:( *impatient*


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on October 06, 2008, 12:05:22 PM
Monday, October 6:

Obama: 50 (nc)
McCain: 42 (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on October 06, 2008, 12:08:14 PM
YES WE CAN!



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 06, 2008, 12:08:32 PM
The good news is that Obama cannot seem to get over 50%. The bad news is that McCain can't get over 43%.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 06, 2008, 12:12:00 PM
So much for JJ's "trend"...



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 06, 2008, 12:47:56 PM
()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Likely Voter on October 06, 2008, 01:12:32 PM
is it time to talk about the 'Biden Bump' it appears that ever tracking poll has moved towards Obama 1 point since the debate day.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 06, 2008, 01:37:03 PM

I said we'll have to wait and see, not a "trend."

Obama basically should be going up on Gallup.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 06, 2008, 01:49:06 PM
LOL. Another italicized "should" from J. J.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 06, 2008, 02:17:51 PM

Because you apparently cannot understand it.  If McCain, in Thursday's, Friday's, or Saturday's Gallup numbers, drop, that is big news, because McCain tends to do a bit better in those polls. 

If Obama, in Sunday's, Monday's, or Tuesday's Gallup numbers, drop, that is big news, because Obama tends to do a bit better in those polls. 

Not much for either candidate, but a bit.

If McCain's midweek numbers go up a little, I'm not going to get too excited.  If his numbers continue at the same level, I'm going to get depressed.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on October 06, 2008, 02:21:53 PM
But the weekend/weekday bounces are just a figment of your imagination.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 06, 2008, 04:02:43 PM
is it time to talk about the 'Biden Bump' it appears that ever tracking poll has moved towards Obama 1 point since the debate day.
 

Probably. Biden was a class act in that debate.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 06, 2008, 04:09:59 PM
But the weekend/weekday bounces are just a figment of your imagination.

Except other people noticed them on Gallup.  He's one from an Obama supporter on DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5393055#5393230


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 06, 2008, 06:51:40 PM
is it time to talk about the 'Biden Bump' it appears that ever tracking poll has moved towards Obama 1 point since the debate day.
 

Probably. Biden was a class act in that debate.

Well Joe Biden sure as hell knows staid ol' Johnny one hell of a lot better than Saintly Sarah. Whenever she 1) defended Johnny and 2) discussed her own record as mayor and governor in Alaska, the response from the CNN panel of Ohio undecideds was flat

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 06, 2008, 07:33:06 PM
is it time to talk about the 'Biden Bump' it appears that ever tracking poll has moved towards Obama 1 point since the debate day.
 

Probably. Biden was a class act in that debate.

Well Joe Biden sure as hell knows staid ol' Johnny one hell of a lot better than Saintly Sarah. Whenever she 1) defended Johnny and 2) discussed her own record as mayor and governor in Alaska, the response from the CNN panel of Ohio undecideds was flat

Dave

The "Ohio undecideds" was actually the CNN newsroom.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on October 07, 2008, 04:14:14 AM
But the weekend/weekday bounces are just a figment of your imagination.

Except other people noticed them on Gallup.  He's one from an Obama supporter on DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5393055#5393230
They sort of existed. For a while. They've been gone since the Conventions, and will not return.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Joe Republic on October 07, 2008, 12:04:21 PM
Tuesday, October 7:

Obama: 51 (+1)
McCain: 42 (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: GMantis on October 07, 2008, 12:07:22 PM
Tuesday, October 7:

Obama: 51 (+1)
McCain: 42 (nc)
Damn it! You beat me by 5 seconds.
Anyway, this is the largest Obama lead since August and the highest percentage he got in the Gallup tracking.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on October 07, 2008, 12:22:19 PM
"you havin poll problems, I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but Gallup Trackin aint one"


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 07, 2008, 02:49:48 PM
Finally over 50


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 08, 2008, 12:00:29 PM
Voters See Economic Plans as Net Plus for Obama

McCain economic pln more likely to repel than attact voters

http://www.gallup.com/poll/111037/Voters-See-Economic-Plans-Net-Plus-Obama.aspx

Effect of Candidates' Economic and Tax Plans On Vote

Obama: More likely 43%; No difference 20%; Less likely 33% (net +10)
McCain: More likely 30%; No difference 21%; Less likely 44% (net -14)

Effect of Candidates' Positions on Iraq Waw of Vote

Obama (opposed war): More likely 43%; No difference 26%; Less likely 31% (net +12)
McCain (supported war) More likely 32%; No difference 27%; Less likely 40% (net -8)

Effect of Candidates' Positions on the Iraq Surge

Obama (opposed surge): More likely 32%; No difference 29%; Less likely 38% (net -6)
McCain (supported surge): More likely 38%; No difference 30%; Less likely 30% (net +8)

Effect of Candidates' Race on Vote

Obama: More likely 9%; No difference 85%; Less likely 6% (net +3)
McCain: More likely 7%; No difference 87%; Less likely 6% (net +1)

Effect of Candidates' Age on Vote

Obama: More likely 24%; No difference 67%; Less likely 9% (net +15)
McCain: More likely 7%; No difference 55%; Less likely 38% (net -31)

Meanwhile, Biden helps Obama (net +18); but Palin doesn't help McCain (net -8)

Gallup Poll, Oct. 3-5, 2008

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on October 08, 2008, 12:02:32 PM
Wednesday, October 8:

Obama: 52 (+1)
McCain: 41 (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: riceowl on October 08, 2008, 12:02:50 PM
huh.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on October 08, 2008, 12:03:08 PM
WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on October 08, 2008, 12:04:05 PM
Never thought Gallup would show a "better" result than Dailykos ... :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ucscgaldamez on October 08, 2008, 12:04:55 PM
WTF?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 08, 2008, 12:06:39 PM
Could be a pro Obama sample.  Wait for the next polls.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ucscgaldamez on October 08, 2008, 12:08:44 PM
Three nights in a row with double digit leads? Impressive!

However, I don't think he can go higher than this.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: JohnCA246 on October 08, 2008, 12:10:37 PM
what the heck


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 08, 2008, 12:14:07 PM
Wednesday, October 8:

Obama: 52 (+1)
McCain: 41 (-1)

yeah, well this race has been over for 3 weeks now


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 08, 2008, 12:15:10 PM
Wednesday, October 8:

Obama: 52 (+1)
McCain: 41 (-1)

These results, based on Oct. 5-7 polling, are the best for Obama during the campaign, both in terms of his share of the vote and the size of his lead over McCain.

Nearly all interviews in today's report were conducted before Tuesday night's town hall style debate in Nashville. Any movement in voter preferences as a result of this debate will be apparent in coming days.

Voter preferences seem to have stabilized for the moment, as Obama has held a double-digit lead over McCain in each of the last three individual nights of polling.

Concern about the economy seems to be playing to Obama's advantage; he overtook McCain when the financial crisis worsened in the middle of September, and his strong showing today coincides with the worst rating of the economy this year (59% of Americans describe current economic conditions as "poor")
.

So, as of October 8, Obama currently leads, in tracking polls*, McCain from +1 to +11

Average lead: 6% (rounded)

* Batteground (+4), Diageo-Hotline (+1), Gallup (+11), Rasmussen (+6), Research 2000 (+10) and Zogby (+2)

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 08, 2008, 12:17:03 PM
Wednesday, October 8:

Obama: 52 (+1)
McCain: 41 (-1)

yeah, well this race has been over for 3 weeks now

It's not like they are all Obama +11 (unfortunately)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: BlueSwan on October 08, 2008, 12:44:30 PM
So, as of October 8, Obama currently leads, in tracking polls*, McCain from +1 to +11

Average lead: 6% (rounded)

* Batteground (+4), Diageo-Hotline (+1), Gallup (+11), Rasmussen (+6), Research 2000 (+10) and Zogby (+2)
Those differences are just crazy. I don't know what to conclude at the moment, but since Rasmussen sits in the middle, maybe they're on to something?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on October 08, 2008, 01:22:33 PM
Wednesday, October 8:

Obama: 52 (+1)
McCain: 41 (-1)

yeah, well this race has been over for 3 weeks now

It's not like they are all Obama +11 (unfortunately)

Unfortunately ? No. I'd rather like a constant 6-point lead than a 10%+ lead, because 6% is the margin where people don't stay at home because they think the race might be over in Obama's favor and 6% is also the margin where a very slight Bradley effect might be absorbed.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on October 08, 2008, 02:10:09 PM
So, as of October 8, Obama currently leads, in tracking polls*, McCain from +1 to +11

Average lead: 6% (rounded)

* Batteground (+4), Diageo-Hotline (+1), Gallup (+11), Rasmussen (+6), Research 2000 (+10) and Zogby (+2)
Those differences are just crazy. I don't know what to conclude at the moment, but since Rasmussen sits in the middle, maybe they're on to something?

It's not hard to look at these relatively objectively. First of all, toss Zogby, it's worthless. Diageo I have had some faith in, but they've been prone to big swings, so I wouldn't pay a whole lot of attention to them. While initially I was willing to give benefit of the doubt to the DKos tracker, it's clear they've been fiddling with the partisan weights, so scrap it. Battleground has had weighting problems this whole time, so I have no faith in them even though they've fixed some of their most egregious problems.

So it's really just Gallup and Rasmussen. And 8-9 points feels reasonable right now.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 08, 2008, 04:14:27 PM
Awesome. I just wish Rasmussen was showing similar numbers.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 08, 2008, 09:07:25 PM
So, as of October 8, Obama currently leads, in tracking polls*, McCain from +1 to +11

Average lead: 6% (rounded)

* Batteground (+4), Diageo-Hotline (+1), Gallup (+11), Rasmussen (+6), Research 2000 (+10) and Zogby (+2)
Those differences are just crazy. I don't know what to conclude at the moment, but since Rasmussen sits in the middle, maybe they're on to something?

It's not hard to look at these relatively objectively. First of all, toss Zogby, it's worthless. Diageo I have had some faith in, but they've been prone to big swings, so I wouldn't pay a whole lot of attention to them. While initially I was willing to give benefit of the doubt to the DKos tracker, it's clear they've been fiddling with the partisan weights, so scrap it. Battleground has had weighting problems this whole time, so I have no faith in them even though they've fixed some of their most egregious problems.

So it's really just Gallup and Rasmussen. And 8-9 points feels reasonable right now.

Diageo Hotline had what looks like a bad sample drop out.  Other than that, it isn't too unstable.  I am, however, not too familiar with its track record, so I'm reserving judgment on it.

Either Gallup or Rasmussen has a bad sample.  It's too soon to tell, but look for one of them to shift dramatically.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 08, 2008, 09:32:00 PM
Or they both do and will soon be regressing to the mean.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 08, 2008, 10:22:35 PM
Or they both do and will soon be regressing to the mean.

This is probably more likely.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 08, 2008, 10:31:49 PM
Or they both do and will soon be regressing to the mean.

Actually, the odds are 1 in 400 that this will happen.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on October 08, 2008, 10:34:42 PM
Or they both do and will soon be regressing to the mean.

Actually, the odds are 1 in 400 that this will happen.

Based on what?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 08, 2008, 10:46:04 PM
Or they both do and will soon be regressing to the mean.

Actually, the odds are 1 in 400 that this will happen.

Based on what?

J.J.'s 267th rule of elections.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 08, 2008, 11:47:53 PM
Or they both do and will soon be regressing to the mean.

Actually, the odds are 1 in 400 that this will happen.

WTF?  Why can't reality be in between the two polls?  Isn't that the most likely scenario?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 08, 2008, 11:50:53 PM
J. J. would probably fail a 7th grade math test. Remember how Wisconsin was tightening near the end?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on October 09, 2008, 07:13:58 AM
J. J. would probably fail a 7th grade math test. Remember how Wisconsin was tightening near the end?

What are you talking about? He's in Mensa!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 09, 2008, 08:07:09 AM
Or they both do and will soon be regressing to the mean.

Actually, the odds are 1 in 400 that this will happen.

Based on what?

1 in 20 polls is an outlier.  For each poll to be an outlier, that's 1 x 1 to 20 x 20 to 1 to 400.

One appears to be an outlier, one isn't.  For both to be an outlier, the odds are 1 to 400.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 09, 2008, 09:13:17 AM
Personally, I think Rasmussen has an outlier sample in its mix (from yesterday), but whatever.  I also don't think Obama is up by 11.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Јas on October 09, 2008, 09:37:27 AM
Or they both do and will soon be regressing to the mean.

Actually, the odds are 1 in 400 that this will happen.

Based on what?

1 in 20 polls is an outlier.  For each poll to be an outlier, that's 1 x 1 to 20 x 20 to 1 to 400.

One appears to be an outlier, one isn't.  For both to be an outlier, the odds are 1 to 400.

First off, let me preface this by saying there's a reasonable chance that I'm completely wrong - I'm no maths whiz - but I don't see how the odds would be 1 in 400.

By my estimate, it's closer to a 1.8% (so almost 1 in 55) chance that both contain 1 outlier.

Reasoning:
If there's a 5% chance that any particular poll is an outlier, then the odds that 1 of a set of 3 polls is an outlier is 3(0.05*0.95*0.95) = 0.135 (that is, 13.5%).
To calculate the chance that both trackers contain an outlier in their sample, I presume one should multiply 0.135 by itself giving a result of approximately 0.018, or a 1.8% chance that both contain an outlier in their 3 day samples.

Anyway, as I say there's a reasonable chance that my reasoning is farcically wrong, but if someone could clarify all this, I'd appreciate it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on October 09, 2008, 10:19:10 AM
Or they both do and will soon be regressing to the mean.

Actually, the odds are 1 in 400 that this will happen.

Based on what?

1 in 20 polls is an outlier.  For each poll to be an outlier, that's 1 x 1 to 20 x 20 to 1 to 400.

One appears to be an outlier, one isn't.  For both to be an outlier, the odds are 1 to 400.

First off, let me preface this by saying there's a reasonable chance that I'm completely wrong - I'm no maths whiz - but I don't see how the odds would be 1 in 400.

By my estimate, it's closer to a 1.8% (so almost 1 in 55) chance that both contain 1 outlier.

Reasoning:
If there's a 5% chance that any particular poll is an outlier, then the odds that 1 of a set of 3 polls is an outlier is 3(0.05*0.95*0.95) = 0.135 (that is, 13.5%).
To calculate the chance that both trackers contain an outlier in their sample, I presume one should multiply 0.135 by itself giving a result of approximately 0.018, or a 1.8% chance that both contain an outlier in their 3 day samples.

Anyway, as I say there's a reasonable chance that my reasoning is farcically wrong, but if someone could clarify all this, I'd appreciate it.

I believe Jas has the right idea, not to mention that the 1-in-20 rule assumes a perfect sample, or at least consistently-selected samples between two days (in the case between intra-poll comparisons.)

Also, the 1-in-20 rule relates to MoE; it is not a magical "outlier theorem," or anything.  It's the chance, at the 95% confidence rate, that a perfectly-representative poll falls outside the MoE.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 09, 2008, 10:26:33 AM
Or they both do and will soon be regressing to the mean.

Actually, the odds are 1 in 400 that this will happen.

Based on what?

1 in 20 polls is an outlier.  For each poll to be an outlier, that's 1 x 1 to 20 x 20 to 1 to 400.

One appears to be an outlier, one isn't.  For both to be an outlier, the odds are 1 to 400.

That's just not true.  If two polls vary significantly from one another, THE MOST LIKELY RESULT IS THE AVERAGE OF THE TWO (putting them both off, which will soon regress to the mean as more polls are taken, Rasmussen up and Gallup down).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 09, 2008, 10:30:16 AM
Or they both do and will soon be regressing to the mean.

Actually, the odds are 1 in 400 that this will happen.

Based on what?

1 in 20 polls is an outlier.  For each poll to be an outlier, that's 1 x 1 to 20 x 20 to 1 to 400.

One appears to be an outlier, one isn't.  For both to be an outlier, the odds are 1 to 400.

First off, let me preface this by saying there's a reasonable chance that I'm completely wrong - I'm no maths whiz - but I don't see how the odds would be 1 in 400.

By my estimate, it's closer to a 1.8% (so almost 1 in 55) chance that both contain 1 outlier.

Reasoning:
If there's a 5% chance that any particular poll is an outlier, then the odds that 1 of a set of 3 polls is an outlier is 3(0.05*0.95*0.95) = 0.135 (that is, 13.5%).
To calculate the chance that both trackers contain an outlier in their sample, I presume one should multiply 0.135 by itself giving a result of approximately 0.018, or a 1.8% chance that both contain an outlier in their 3 day samples.

Anyway, as I say there's a reasonable chance that my reasoning is farcically wrong, but if someone could clarify all this, I'd appreciate it.

I'm looking at the odds that there is a "bad" sample.  That is about 1 in 20.  That will screw up three days of polling, but that isn't what I'm looking at.  I'm just interested in the bad sample.  The odds on both happening on the same day are 1 to 400.

You can argue that it would be 1 in 6 2/3 that this be in a three day sample. That two sets of three day samples would both contain a bad sample is above 44 to 1.

Therefore probably both do not contain a bad sample, though one may.  The outlier could be very well be Rasmussen; we'll probably know which one is the outlier by Saturday, if not sooner.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on October 09, 2008, 10:38:10 AM
Or they both do and will soon be regressing to the mean.

Actually, the odds are 1 in 400 that this will happen.

Based on what?

1 in 20 polls is an outlier.  For each poll to be an outlier, that's 1 x 1 to 20 x 20 to 1 to 400.

One appears to be an outlier, one isn't.  For both to be an outlier, the odds are 1 to 400.
(Ignoring Alcon's pertinent remarks about perfect samples - which as a rule do not exist in opinion polling - for the moment.) Except that that's a random cutoff point. Not every point outside the MoE is as unlikely as every other point outside the MoE, and not every point within the MoE is as likely as every other point within the MoE.

We're not talking a field divided into a 95% field that is white and a 5% field that is black. We're talking a field that is, almost in its entirety, a very whitish shade of grey, moving into downright white along much of the one half, and into darker shades towards the other end, theoretically reaching black at the very extreme edge.

As to the math...

Yes, two out of perfect samples to be of the 5% share of our whitish-grey field that we whimsically declare to be "black" is a 1-in-400 share. But, as Jas points out, we're actually talking at least one of three and at least one of another three.
If there's a 5% chance that any particular poll is an outlier, then the odds that 1 of a set of 3 polls is an outlier is 3(0.05*0.95*0.95) = 0.135 (that is, 13.5%).
Close, but not quite. That is actually the probability that exactly one of the three is a "bad" sample. The probability that at least one is "bad" is actually 1-(0.95*0.95*0.95) = 0.142625 (the part in the bracket is the probability that all three are "good".)
Quote
To calculate the chance that both trackers contain an outlier in their sample, I presume one should multiply (result) by itself
Correct.
The actual figure then is approximately 2.0342%, or more than one in fifty.

But of course, all of this really presupposes that pollsters are getting an entirely random sample from the population, are not lied to (or even erroneously given wrong information), and are not performing any mathematical tricks on their raw data to make the random sample's demographics fit their notions of statistical reality.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: emailking on October 09, 2008, 10:41:17 AM
First of all, an "outlier" is a measurement that is "distant" from the rest of the data. This is a subjective definition, but normally it does not apply necessarily to any result that falls outside of the 95% confidence region on the mean.

Aside from that, Jas and J.J. appear to be using correct mathematics to address different issues. 2.03% chance that both tracking polls have an incorrect poll to within MOE. 0.25% chance that on a given day both tracking polls polled incorrectly to within MOE.

Edit: Fixed prob per Laurent's post.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 09, 2008, 10:45:06 AM
Or they both do and will soon be regressing to the mean.

Actually, the odds are 1 in 400 that this will happen.

Based on what?

1 in 20 polls is an outlier.  For each poll to be an outlier, that's 1 x 1 to 20 x 20 to 1 to 400.

One appears to be an outlier, one isn't.  For both to be an outlier, the odds are 1 to 400.

First off, let me preface this by saying there's a reasonable chance that I'm completely wrong - I'm no maths whiz - but I don't see how the odds would be 1 in 400.

By my estimate, it's closer to a 1.8% (so almost 1 in 55) chance that both contain 1 outlier.

Reasoning:
If there's a 5% chance that any particular poll is an outlier, then the odds that 1 of a set of 3 polls is an outlier is 3(0.05*0.95*0.95) = 0.135 (that is, 13.5%).
To calculate the chance that both trackers contain an outlier in their sample, I presume one should multiply 0.135 by itself giving a result of approximately 0.018, or a 1.8% chance that both contain an outlier in their 3 day samples.

Anyway, as I say there's a reasonable chance that my reasoning is farcically wrong, but if someone could clarify all this, I'd appreciate it.

I'm looking at the odds that there is a "bad" sample.  That is about 1 in 20.  That will screw up three days of polling, but that isn't what I'm looking at.  I'm just interested in the bad sample.  The odds on both happening on the same day are 1 to 400.

You can argue that it would be 1 in 6 2/3 that this be in a three day sample. That two sets of three day samples would both contain a bad sample is above 44 to 1.

Therefore probably both do not contain a bad sample, though one may.  The outlier could be very well be Rasmussen; we'll probably know which one is the outlier by Saturday, if not sooner.

An outlier is not a binary distinction.

Two polls showing different results, let's say 8%.  Both polls are reliable and have the same SS.  It is NOT more likely for one poll to be 8% off than for both to be 4% off.  End of story.

Most likely result, and the prediction that will give you the smallest margin of error is to average the results, weighted by sample size.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: emailking on October 09, 2008, 10:49:19 AM

Two polls showing different results, let's say 8%.  Both polls are reliable and have the same SS.  It is NOT more likely for one poll to be 8% off than for both to be 4% off.  End of story.

The odds of being inside/outside the confidence interval is 95% / 5% by construction of these polls. It doesn't matter how much one of the polls is off by or how they compare to each other.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on October 09, 2008, 11:10:47 AM

Two polls showing different results, let's say 8%.  Both polls are reliable and have the same SS.  It is NOT more likely for one poll to be 8% off than for both to be 4% off.  End of story.

The odds of being inside/outside the confidence interval is 95% / 5% by construction of these polls. It doesn't matter how much one of the polls is off by or how they compare to each other.
No, it does. It's a Gaussian bell curve (theoretically). 5% is a random cutoff.

To provide the maths to back up Lunar's thesis would require me remembering maths stuff I learned twelve years ago and haven't used for nine, so I won't try.



   
 
 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: emailking on October 09, 2008, 11:34:08 AM

Two polls showing different results, let's say 8%.  Both polls are reliable and have the same SS.  It is NOT more likely for one poll to be 8% off than for both to be 4% off.  End of story.

The odds of being inside/outside the confidence interval is 95% / 5% by construction of these polls. It doesn't matter how much one of the polls is off by or how they compare to each other.
No, it does. It's a Gaussian bell curve (theoretically). 5% is a random cutoff.

The MOE is constructed on the basis of the "random" cutoff. If one chose a different cutoff, there would be a different MOE. We're saying that a poll is correct if the actual result is within the MOE. That's a 95% chance by construction. It doesn't matter whre it fits in or how far off it may be. This is statistics 101.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on October 09, 2008, 11:43:24 AM

Two polls showing different results, let's say 8%.  Both polls are reliable and have the same SS.  It is NOT more likely for one poll to be 8% off than for both to be 4% off.  End of story.

The odds of being inside/outside the confidence interval is 95% / 5% by construction of these polls. It doesn't matter how much one of the polls is off by or how they compare to each other.
No, it does. It's a Gaussian bell curve (theoretically). 5% is a random cutoff.

The MOE is constructed on the basis of the "random" cutoff. If one chose a different cutoff, there would be a different MOE. We're saying that a poll is correct if the actual result is within the MOE. That's a 95% chance by construction.
Yes.
Quote
It doesn't matter whre it fits in or how far off it may be.
For the question of whether it's within MoE it doesn't matter. For the exact probability of an event, it matters as a matter of course. This isn't about the construction "Margin of Error" - this is about the stuff "Margin of Error" is constructed out of.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on October 09, 2008, 12:03:31 PM
Thursday, October 9
Obama: 52 (nc)
McCain: 41 (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on October 09, 2008, 12:07:23 PM

Delicious


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on October 09, 2008, 12:10:36 PM
And Gallup falls from grace. :p


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: emailking on October 09, 2008, 12:20:35 PM
For the question of whether it's within MoE it doesn't matter.

Well maybe I missed something but as far as I can tell ,that's all JJ was talking about. yes we obviously have to assume the pollsters conducted a perfectly random sampling and were able to measure the results 100% accurately. Neither is true of course, but you can throw out the polls altogether if these effects cannot be assumed to be small.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 09, 2008, 01:17:58 PM
For the question of whether it's within MoE it doesn't matter.

Well maybe I missed something but as far as I can tell ,that's all JJ was talking about. yes we obviously have to assume the pollsters conducted a perfectly random sampling and were able to measure the results 100% accurately. Neither is true of course, but you can throw out the polls altogether if these effects cannot be assumed to be small.

You are correct.  I'm suggesting that either Rasmussen or Gallup has a single day sample that is outside of the MOE.  It happens, and it doesn't mean either Rasmussen or Gallup have fallen from grace.  This effect is to be expected. 

We should know which one is wrong by no later than Saturday.  Just chill until then, everyone.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 09, 2008, 02:46:30 PM
Again, think about it.

You have two results that disagree with one another.  The one prediction that minimizes the amount of margin of error is both samples averaged, weighed based on sample size.  If four polls agree and two are way off, you don't just toss out the two, you average all six together to yield the most accurate result.

Again, let's take my two poll, 8% off example.  Both polls will have 3% MoE.  The guess that has both polls at 4% off has two polls polling about 1% out of the 95% confidence interval.  That 1/20 chance outside of the confidence interval does NOT mean that every number outside of that 95% area is equally unlikely, it gets progressively and exponentially worse.  It's more likely to have two polls be, what, half a standard deviation out from the confidence interval away than one poll two standard deviations out.

Not saying you're wrong, but the idea that two polls showing different results would only have 1/400 chance of both being off and having the actual result be in the middle is KARAZEE.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: emailking on October 09, 2008, 03:03:10 PM
Again, think about it.

You have two results that disagree with one another.  The one prediction that minimizes the amount of margin of error is both samples averaged, weighed based on sample size.  If four polls agree and two are way off, you don't just toss out the two, you average all six together to yield the most accurate result.

Again, let's take my two poll, 8% off example.  Both polls will have 3% MoE.  The guess that has both polls at 4% off has two polls polling about 1% out of the 95% confidence interval.  That 1/20 chance outside of the confidence interval does NOT mean that every number outside of that 95% area is equally unlikely, it gets progressively and exponentially worse.  It's more likely to have two polls be, what, half a standard deviation out from the confidence interval away than one poll two standard deviations out.

Not saying you're wrong, but the idea that two polls showing different results would only have 1/400 chance of both being off and having the actual result be in the middle is KARAZEE.

Yes, that would be crazy. But you changed the problem. You are now presupposing what the true answer is that is being measured by the sampling in your analysis.  If we already know both polls are wrong then there is a 100% chance they are both wrong. But the scenario you layed out has a 1/400 chance of happening.

Since a priori we know neither the answer nor where the distributions lie, then the best that can be done is to treat them as independent events.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 09, 2008, 03:23:51 PM
I am treating them as independent events.  I'm not presupposing what the true answer is.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Dan the Roman on October 09, 2008, 03:44:34 PM
i think there is a simple explantation for this. Gallup does not weight by party id, while Rassmussen updates his weekly, and the rest use a static or who knows what system.

Gallup and Dailykos are both seeing a 9% Democratic advantage right now. Rassmussen saw a 6% one last week. The rest see a one or two point one. If the financial crisis has pushed independents into identifying as Democrats, this would be picked up by Gallup and Dailykos, while the other polls would see it as an actual gain for McCain, since they would not pick up the increased number of Democrats, but would notice that the "independents" in the sample had become marginally more Republican due to Democratic leaning ones changing their identification.

Midweek I would trust Gallup more than Rassmussen for general trends. If Ras is still showing tightening after he re-weights at the end of the week then I would probably trust him. But right now the differences are mostly explained by party id(and a bizzare pro-McCain sample yesterday in Ras).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on October 09, 2008, 03:48:14 PM
Bottom line of my argument:

I agree with Dan, ie it's the model not the poll (or the model and the poll). There's no way this difference is attributable to "a bad sample".
My maths excourse was mostly aimed at showing how absurd it is to try and solve these things through maths alone.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: emailking on October 09, 2008, 05:43:12 PM
I am treating them as independent events.  I'm not presupposing what the true answer is.

You are presupposing the true answer. "...the idea that two polls showing different results would only have 1/400 chance of both being off and having the actual result be in the middle..." You are assuming where the answer is!

You are not treating them as independent events either. "Again, let's take my two poll, 8% off example." They're not independent if you specify where they are with respect to each other, as that statement does.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: muon2 on October 09, 2008, 10:09:32 PM
I am treating them as independent events.  I'm not presupposing what the true answer is.

You are presupposing the true answer. "...the idea that two polls showing different results would only have 1/400 chance of both being off and having the actual result be in the middle..." You are assuming where the answer is!

You are not treating them as independent events either. "Again, let's take my two poll, 8% off example." They're not independent if you specify where they are with respect to each other, as that statement does.

Statistically they are not independent events. They are independent measurements of the same event - the presidential preference. A comparison of MOE is inadequate, since these polls only use the statistical error to quote an MOE.

A better comparison would have the polls also quote a systematic error. The systematic error measures the expected measurement fluctuations based on the choice of modeling. Since no pollster directly uses a raw random sample, there is a systematic error associated with the poll. My guess is that the systematic errors are comparable to the statistical errors based on the dispersion of polling values seen on any given day.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on October 09, 2008, 10:37:52 PM
Since Obama's been 11 up in Gallup two days in a row, it's obviously not just one day of a bad sample. It would have to be at least two days worth.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 09, 2008, 10:40:09 PM
Since Obama's been 11 up in Gallup two days in a row, it's obviously not just one day of a bad sample. It would have to be at least two days worth.

The sample stays in for three days.  It does in Rasmussen as well.

That's why I've been saying we should wait until Saturday.  If either the 'bots or Gallup has a bad sample, it will drop out by then.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on October 10, 2008, 02:57:35 AM
The race is probably Obama +4. This eleven point "lead" is absolutely unrealistic.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 10, 2008, 03:16:38 AM
The race is probably Obama +4. This eleven point "lead" is absolutely unrealistic.

I'd say 5-7.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on October 10, 2008, 03:23:00 AM
The race is probably Obama +4. This eleven point "lead" is absolutely unrealistic.

I'd say 5-7.

Gallup has had some flatulence the past few days.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on October 10, 2008, 12:01:42 PM
Friday, October 10:

Obama: 51 (-1)
McCain: 41 (nc)

These results show little major change in the basic structure of the race, although McCain did somewhat better in Thursday night interviewing, suggesting the possibility that the race may have some fluidity in the days ahead.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: BlueSwan on October 10, 2008, 12:10:00 PM
So a small summary of Obama's leads in today's tracking polls:

Gallup: Obama +10 (-1)
Rasmussen: Obama +5 (-)
Diego/Hotline: Obama +7 (+1)
Battleground: Obama +8 (+5)
DailyKos: Obama +12 (+2)
Reuters/Zogby: Obama +4 (-)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 10, 2008, 12:16:44 PM
So a small summary of Obama's leads in today's tracking polls:

Gallup: Obama +10 (-1)
Rasmussen: Obama +5 (-)
Diego/Hotline: Obama +7 (+1)
Battleground: Obama +8 (+5)
DailyKos: Obama +12 (+2)
Reuters/Zogby: Obama +4 (-)

thanks for the summary, I was search for the others but am having trouble finding them since they are no longer stickied


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 10, 2008, 12:19:20 PM
The race is probably Obama +4. This eleven point "lead" is absolutely unrealistic.

It's unrealistic, but your Obama +4 is far more so.  When a credible pollster shows a large lead, you just don't throw it out, you average it out.

Let's look at the polls yesterday (today's are about the same, but you posted this before Gallup's new one came out).

Gallup: Obama +11
Rasmussen: Obama + 5
Hotline: Obama +6
R2000: Obama +10
Battleground: Obama +5
Zogby: Obama +4

...so you go with the Zogby?  Even if you didn't know that you were, the fact that you ARE going with the Zogby when *all* the other polls show something different should be worrying :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Likely Voter on October 10, 2008, 12:20:07 PM
Maybe someone should do a new post with a daily summary of all the tracking polls with the differences from the previous day?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 10, 2008, 12:38:00 PM
I suspect there is a bad sample (possibly Tuesday's sample) that was overly pro-Obama.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on October 10, 2008, 12:41:22 PM
I suspect there is a bad sample (possibly Tuesday's sample) that was overly pro-Obama.

Which probably means Obama is down to 6-8 tomorrow.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 10, 2008, 12:48:09 PM
I suspect there is a bad sample (possibly Tuesday's sample) that was overly pro-Obama.

Which probably means Obama is down to 6-8 tomorrow.

On Gallup, yes.  If there is drop of 1-3 points on Gallup for Obama tomorrow, I won't be celebrating.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on October 11, 2008, 12:02:07 PM
Saturday, October 11:

Obama: 51 (nc)
McCain: 42 (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 11, 2008, 12:09:34 PM
Saturday, October 11:

Obama: 51 (nc)
McCain: 42 (+1)

Expected, maybe even a slight uptick for Obama, maybe.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on October 11, 2008, 12:31:53 PM
Saturday, October 11:

Obama: 51 (nc)
McCain: 42 (+1)

Expected, maybe even a slight uptick for Obama, maybe.

According to the RCP average, Obama is 0.1% away from 50% ...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: BlueSwan on October 11, 2008, 12:38:29 PM
All of the tracking polls:

Zogby: Obama +4 (-)
Rasmussen: Obama +7 (+2)
Gallup: Obama +9 (-1)
Hotline: Obama +10 (+3)
R2000: Obama +12 (-)
Battleground: Sorry couldn't find new data for today - yesterday they had Obama +8


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 11, 2008, 01:26:40 PM
Saturday, October 11:

Obama: 51 (nc)
McCain: 42 (+1)

Expected, maybe even a slight uptick for Obama, maybe.

Expected?  You said you half-expected a drop of 4+ points.

Instead, the two polls are beginning to converge, Rasmussen up and Gallup down, like I said.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 11, 2008, 03:34:03 PM
Saturday, October 11:

Obama: 51 (nc)
McCain: 42 (+1)

Expected, maybe even a slight uptick for Obama, maybe.

Expected?  You said you half-expected a drop of 4+ points.

Instead, the two polls are beginning to converge, Rasmussen up and Gallup down, like I said.

I suspect there is a bad sample (possibly Tuesday's sample) that was overly pro-Obama.

Which probably means Obama is down to 6-8 tomorrow.

On Gallup, yes.  If there is drop of 1-3 points on Gallup for Obama tomorrow, I won't be celebrating.

I expected a 1-3 point drop, just do to a skewed sample.  It happened.

Note I'm saying an Obama trend upward, maybe because his numbers have not dropped up the upper edge of this range.

Boy, Lunar, I'm saying that Obama might be doing better than the polling shows, and you get upset with me.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 11, 2008, 10:08:13 PM
My bad sir.  I guess I misunderstood, I thought you meant by "not celebrating" that you meant about your own prediction!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 11, 2008, 10:26:52 PM
My bad sir.  I guess I misunderstood, I thought you meant by "not celebrating" that you meant about your own prediction!

Right now, the gap is 9 points.  I'll be very much surprised if the gap between the two candidates decreases.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MR maverick on October 11, 2008, 11:21:10 PM
My bad sir.  I guess I misunderstood, I thought you meant by "not celebrating" that you meant about your own prediction!

Right now, the gap is 9 points.  I'll be very much surprised if the gap between the two candidates decreases.

4 - 5% the day before election?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: BlueSwan on October 12, 2008, 02:27:52 AM
My bad sir.  I guess I misunderstood, I thought you meant by "not celebrating" that you meant about your own prediction!

Right now, the gap is 9 points.  I'll be very much surprised if the gap between the two candidates decreases.
As long as the gap is at least 5 points the day before the election, I'll feel confident.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 12, 2008, 07:39:18 AM
My bad sir.  I guess I misunderstood, I thought you meant by "not celebrating" that you meant about your own prediction!

Right now, the gap is 9 points.  I'll be very much surprised if the gap between the two candidates decreases.

4 - 5% the day before election?

I was referring today's Gallup, which will get at 1:00 PM; that would be four days of decreasing and any single bad sample would be out.

I would be surprised if the gap narrows today.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ty440 on October 12, 2008, 12:06:10 PM
Sunday Oct 12 2008


Obama  50% -1
Mccain   43% +1


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 12, 2008, 12:07:58 PM
I am surprised. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: BlueSwan on October 12, 2008, 12:10:49 PM
So if we forget about DailyKos and forget about Battleground, the remaining 4 polls are remarkably close now. Rasmussen and Zogby has Obama at +6, Gallup at +7 and DiegeoHotline at +8.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 12, 2008, 12:12:28 PM
Obama has reached a peak.  I wouldn't be surprised if the race was Obama+4 at the end of this week.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ty440 on October 12, 2008, 12:13:09 PM

I'm not, the reality of the stock market crash has already taken it's full effect. Mccain can only slowly creep up for now. He has reached his valley.

What solutions has Obama offered ? These bad polls are the result of people pissed off at the Republicans and not some great support for Obama.

Obama's support right now is a mile wide and an inch deep. If he begins to fall in the polls I think he can fall fast.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 12, 2008, 12:19:09 PM
Four point drop for Obama since Thursday.  The almost has to have been a bad sample in that.


So if we forget about DailyKos and forget about Battleground, the remaining 4 polls are remarkably close now. Rasmussen and Zogby has Obama at +6, Gallup at +7 and DiegeoHotline at +8.

Forget Zogby (PLEASE!).  Hotline was all over the place.  6-7 Obama?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 12, 2008, 12:30:47 PM
So if we forget about DailyKos and forget about Battleground, the remaining 4 polls are remarkably close now. Rasmussen and Zogby has Obama at +6, Gallup at +7 and DiegeoHotline at +8.

That's "remarkably close"?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 12, 2008, 12:32:54 PM
Important note in today's update:

Obama's current advantage is slightly less when estimating the preferences of likely voters, which Gallup will begin reporting on a regular basis between now and the election. Gallup is providing two likely voter estimates to take into account different turnout scenarios.

The first likely voter model is based on Gallup's traditional likely voter assumptions, which determine respondents' likelihood to vote based on how they answer questions about their current voting intention and past voting behavior. According to this model, Obama's advantage over McCain is 50% to 46% in Oct. 9-11 tracking data.

The second likely voter estimate is a variation on the traditional model, but is only based on respondents' current voting intention. This model would take into account increased voter registration this year and possibly higher turnout among groups that are traditionally less likely to vote, such as young adults and racial minorities (Gallup will continue to monitor and report on turnout indicators by subgroup between now and the election). According to this second likely voter model, Obama has a 51% to 45% lead over McCain. -- Jeff Jones


As Vorlon has pointed out, it is now at this point in the race (second week of October or so) when Gallup's LV model starts becoming useful to us. 

Hopefully, they will post this every day...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ty440 on October 12, 2008, 12:43:24 PM
Important note in today's update:

Obama's current advantage is slightly less when estimating the preferences of likely voters, which Gallup will begin reporting on a regular basis between now and the election. Gallup is providing two likely voter estimates to take into account different turnout scenarios.

The first likely voter model is based on Gallup's traditional likely voter assumptions, which determine respondents' likelihood to vote based on how they answer questions about their current voting intention and past voting behavior. According to this model, Obama's advantage over McCain is 50% to 46% in Oct. 9-11 tracking data.

The second likely voter estimate is a variation on the traditional model, but is only based on respondents' current voting intention. This model would take into account increased voter registration this year and possibly higher turnout among groups that are traditionally less likely to vote, such as young adults and racial minorities (Gallup will continue to monitor and report on turnout indicators by subgroup between now and the election). According to this second likely voter model, Obama has a 51% to 45% lead over McCain. -- Jeff Jones


As Vorlon has pointed out, it is now at this point in the race (second week of October or so) when Gallup's LV model starts becoming useful to us. 

Hopefully, they will post this every day...

HA! Just as I believed. That big 12 point lead was artificial.

Yes Obama will get more African-Americans to show up especially like in places like Mississippi, Louisiana, South Carolina where he had no shot of winning anyway.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: BlueSwan on October 12, 2008, 01:19:54 PM
So if we forget about DailyKos and forget about Battleground, the remaining 4 polls are remarkably close now. Rasmussen and Zogby has Obama at +6, Gallup at +7 and DiegeoHotline at +8.

That's "remarkably close"?
Compared to the results of 3 or 4 days ago when some polls had Obama up a single point and others at +12 - absolutely!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 12, 2008, 02:54:10 PM
So if we forget about DailyKos and forget about Battleground, the remaining 4 polls are remarkably close now. Rasmussen and Zogby has Obama at +6, Gallup at +7 and DiegeoHotline at +8.

That's "remarkably close"?
Compared to the results of 3 or 4 days ago when some polls had Obama up a single point and others at +12 - absolutely!

And a three point range over three polls is fairly close.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MR maverick on October 12, 2008, 09:44:37 PM
Its not like obama was going to actaully win by 10pts.

50-48% is about what it could be on election night.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 12, 2008, 09:50:26 PM
C'mon Obama, FALL UNDER 50%!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: BlueSwan on October 13, 2008, 01:03:07 AM
So if we forget about DailyKos and forget about Battleground, the remaining 4 polls are remarkably close now. Rasmussen and Zogby has Obama at +6, Gallup at +7 and DiegeoHotline at +8.

That's "remarkably close"?
Compared to the results of 3 or 4 days ago when some polls had Obama up a single point and others at +12 - absolutely!

And a three point range over three polls is fairly close.
Four polls. And yes indeed.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 13, 2008, 11:38:19 AM
So if we forget about DailyKos and forget about Battleground, the remaining 4 polls are remarkably close now. Rasmussen and Zogby has Obama at +6, Gallup at +7 and DiegeoHotline at +8.

That's "remarkably close"?
Compared to the results of 3 or 4 days ago when some polls had Obama up a single point and others at +12 - absolutely!

And a three point range over three polls is fairly close.
Four polls. And yes indeed.

I refuse to count Zogby.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on October 13, 2008, 12:03:51 PM
Obama 51 (+1)
McCain 41 (-2)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Aizen on October 13, 2008, 12:06:06 PM
I thought McCain was supposed to be boosting because of Ayers. What happened?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: BlueSwan on October 13, 2008, 12:08:44 PM
All tracking polls for today:

Gallup: Obama +10 (+3)
Rasmussen: Obama +5 (-1)
R2000: Obama +12 (-1)
Battleground: Obama +8 (-2)
Hotline: Obama +6 (-2)
Zogby: Obama +4 (-2)

So Obama loses ground everywhere, except in Gallups poll where he gains 3 points and yet again the polls are all over the place. The only constant is that Obama leads by at least 4 points.

If Gallup only looks at likely voters Obamas lead is cut to 7 points.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on October 13, 2008, 12:11:27 PM
Gallup sometimes has little spasms, before it starts to settle down or goes in a completely different direction.

In other words, they go up and down faster than the stock market. :p


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 13, 2008, 12:15:21 PM
We now have Rasmussen and Gallup moving in opposite directions.  Wait until Wednesday or Thursday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 13, 2008, 12:17:23 PM
All tracking polls for today:

Gallup: Obama +10 (+3)
Rasmussen: Obama +5 (-1)
R2000: Obama +12 (-1)
Battleground: Obama +8 (-2)
Hotline: Obama +6 (-2)
Zogby: Obama +4 (-2)

So Obama loses ground everywhere, except in Gallups poll where he gains 3 points and yet again the polls are all over the place. The only constant is that Obama leads by at least 4 points.

If Gallup only looks at likely voters Obamas lead is cut to 7 points.

Battleground was unchanged.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 13, 2008, 12:22:01 PM

A thing of beauty.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Likely Voter on October 13, 2008, 12:34:21 PM
I just saw how Gallup is now talking about two different likely voter models

One based on 60% turnout and traditional metrics, one base on voter intent

Obama's lead is 7 in the first model and 10 in the second. It is a good guess that the first model is cutting out young voters who say they are sure they will vote for Obama, but the traditional model ignores them since youth tend to not show up.

I think as we get closer to election day the big dif between the various polling companies will be how they treat young likely voters.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 13, 2008, 12:36:18 PM
Crikey. Must have been a big Obama night.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: BlueSwan on October 13, 2008, 12:38:00 PM
All tracking polls for today:

Gallup: Obama +10 (+3)
Rasmussen: Obama +5 (-1)
R2000: Obama +12 (-1)
Battleground: Obama +8 (-2)
Hotline: Obama +6 (-2)
Zogby: Obama +4 (-2)

So Obama loses ground everywhere, except in Gallups poll where he gains 3 points and yet again the polls are all over the place. The only constant is that Obama leads by at least 4 points.

If Gallup only looks at likely voters Obamas lead is cut to 7 points.

Battleground was unchanged.
Ooppps...my mistake!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 13, 2008, 01:07:11 PM
Crikey. Must have been a big Obama night.

Weekend number have tended to go up for Obama on Gallup.  I'm looking for trending in the tracking polls.

I think it is clear that there was no post debate bounce for Obama, and possibly some slight tightening. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Likely Voter on October 13, 2008, 07:55:21 PM
Crikey. Must have been a big Obama night.

Weekend number have tended to go up for Obama on Gallup.  I'm looking for trending in the tracking polls.

I think it is clear that there was no post debate bounce for Obama, and possibly some slight tightening. 
What is your data to back that up?

RCP averages
Sept 26 (1st Pres. debate): Obama +4.2
October 2 (VP debate): Obama +5.7
October 7 (2nd Pres. debate): Obama +5.5
Today: Obama +7.4

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

same pattern at Pollster.com
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/08-us-pres-ge-mvo.php


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 13, 2008, 08:02:47 PM
Crikey. Must have been a big Obama night.

Weekend number have tended to go up for Obama on Gallup.  I'm looking for trending in the tracking polls.

I think it is clear that there was no post debate bounce for Obama, and possibly some slight tightening. 
What is your data to back that up?

RCP averages
Sept 26 (1st Pres. debate): Obama +4.2
October 2 (VP debate): Obama +5.7
October 7 (2nd Pres. debate): Obama +5.5
Today: Obama +7.4

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

same pattern at Pollster.com
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/08-us-pres-ge-mvo.php


So far, today, only Gallup showed a real gain after the debate, almost immediately, then static, then four days of losses until today.  Any bounce should have built, not popped in on the Tuesday (pre debate) or Wednesday sample.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Likely Voter on October 13, 2008, 08:15:56 PM
Crikey. Must have been a big Obama night.

Weekend number have tended to go up for Obama on Gallup.  I'm looking for trending in the tracking polls.

I think it is clear that there was no post debate bounce for Obama, and possibly some slight tightening. 
What is your data to back that up?

RCP averages
Sept 26 (1st Pres. debate): Obama +4.2
October 2 (VP debate): Obama +5.7
October 7 (2nd Pres. debate): Obama +5.5
Today: Obama +7.4

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

same pattern at Pollster.com
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/08-us-pres-ge-mvo.php


So far, today, only Gallup showed a real gain after the debate, almost immediately, then static, then four days of losses until today.  Any bounce should have built, not popped in on the Tuesday (pre debate) or Wednesday sample.

so you just ignore that his average lead is greater today that it was the day of the debate? OK


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sensei on October 13, 2008, 08:24:09 PM
Drudge:  ZOGBY TUESDAY: OBAMA 49%, MCCAIN 43%... DEVELOPING...

throw it out


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 13, 2008, 08:26:33 PM

sorry, misread it, thought is was gallup


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 13, 2008, 08:52:39 PM
Crikey. Must have been a big Obama night.

Weekend number have tended to go up for Obama on Gallup.  I'm looking for trending in the tracking polls.

I think it is clear that there was no post debate bounce for Obama, and possibly some slight tightening. 
What is your data to back that up?

RCP averages
Sept 26 (1st Pres. debate): Obama +4.2
October 2 (VP debate): Obama +5.7
October 7 (2nd Pres. debate): Obama +5.5
Today: Obama +7.4

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

same pattern at Pollster.com
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/08-us-pres-ge-mvo.php


So far, today, only Gallup showed a real gain after the debate, almost immediately, then static, then four days of losses until today.  Any bounce should have built, not popped in on the Tuesday (pre debate) or Wednesday sample.

so you just ignore that his average lead is greater today that it was the day of the debate? OK

We were discussing a debate "bounce." 

Gallup October 7th:  52/41  (from today, -1, nc)

Rasmussen October 7th:  52/44 (from today, -2, +1)

Now, please explain this "bounce" thing again?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Likely Voter on October 13, 2008, 11:53:03 PM
Crikey. Must have been a big Obama night.

Weekend number have tended to go up for Obama on Gallup.  I'm looking for trending in the tracking polls.

I think it is clear that there was no post debate bounce for Obama, and possibly some slight tightening. 
What is your data to back that up?

RCP averages
Sept 26 (1st Pres. debate): Obama +4.2
October 2 (VP debate): Obama +5.7
October 7 (2nd Pres. debate): Obama +5.5
Today: Obama +7.4

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

same pattern at Pollster.com
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/08-us-pres-ge-mvo.php


So far, today, only Gallup showed a real gain after the debate, almost immediately, then static, then four days of losses until today.  Any bounce should have built, not popped in on the Tuesday (pre debate) or Wednesday sample.

so you just ignore that his average lead is greater today that it was the day of the debate? OK

We were discussing a debate "bounce." 

Gallup October 7th:  52/41  (from today, -1, nc)

Rasmussen October 7th:  52/44 (from today, -2, +1)

Now, please explain this "bounce" thing again?

well that is actually the wrong data for Gallup...it was Obama 51%, McCain 42%

Looking at all the tracking polls from debate 2 day to today you get the following.
Gallup: +9 / +10 (+1)
Rasmussen: + 8 / +5 (-3)
Hotline: +2 / +6 (+4)
Research 2000: +11 / +12 (+1)

So the average of all polls has Obama going up a couple points and three out of four tracking polls has him going up.  I am sorry but looking at all the data (as of now) it does not support your 'it has narrowed' theory. Maybe it will narrow tomorrow or later, but as of now it has not.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 14, 2008, 01:03:24 AM



Looking at all the tracking polls from debate 2 day to today you get the following.
Gallup: +9 / +10 (+1)
Rasmussen: + 8 / +5 (-3)
Hotline: +2 / +6 (+4)
Research 2000: +11 / +12 (+1)

So the average of all polls has Obama going up a couple points and three out of four tracking polls has him going up.  I am sorry but looking at all the data (as of now) it does not support your 'it has narrowed' theory. Maybe it will narrow tomorrow or later, but as of now it has not.

Sorry, I was looking at the Gallup for the day before.  Hotline had a bad sample in it at that point (it was a pro-McCain sample dropping off; he had a +3 point gain) and Koz is hopelessly skewed.  Zogby shows about a point drop, but not after the debate, but it of course is Zogby.

So basically, no bounce, though there was enlarging of the lead in Gallup (that wasn't matched elsewhere).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Likely Voter on October 14, 2008, 03:05:47 AM



Looking at all the tracking polls from debate 2 day to today you get the following.
Gallup: +9 / +10 (+1)
Rasmussen: + 8 / +5 (-3)
Hotline: +2 / +6 (+4)
Research 2000: +11 / +12 (+1)

So the average of all polls has Obama going up a couple points and three out of four tracking polls has him going up.  I am sorry but looking at all the data (as of now) it does not support your 'it has narrowed' theory. Maybe it will narrow tomorrow or later, but as of now it has not.

Sorry, I was looking at the Gallup for the day before.  Hotline had a bad sample in it at that point (it was a pro-McCain sample dropping off; he had a +3 point gain) and Koz is hopelessly skewed.  Zogby shows about a point drop, but not after the debate, but it of course is Zogby.

So basically, no bounce, though there was enlarging of the lead in Gallup (that wasn't matched elsewhere).

yes if you can pick and choose what data to pay attention to, then yes your world view is easier to support


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 14, 2008, 06:32:13 AM



Looking at all the tracking polls from debate 2 day to today you get the following.
Gallup: +9 / +10 (+1)
Rasmussen: + 8 / +5 (-3)
Hotline: +2 / +6 (+4)
Research 2000: +11 / +12 (+1)

So the average of all polls has Obama going up a couple points and three out of four tracking polls has him going up.  I am sorry but looking at all the data (as of now) it does not support your 'it has narrowed' theory. Maybe it will narrow tomorrow or later, but as of now it has not.

Sorry, I was looking at the Gallup for the day before.  Hotline had a bad sample in it at that point (it was a pro-McCain sample dropping off; he had a +3 point gain) and Koz is hopelessly skewed.  Zogby shows about a point drop, but not after the debate, but it of course is Zogby.

So basically, no bounce, though there was enlarging of the lead in Gallup (that wasn't matched elsewhere).

yes if you can pick and choose what data to pay attention to, then yes your world view is easier to support

I'm still not seeing any great post debate bounce.  Gallup was only one that moved solidly upward in the four days after the debate and that one shrunk after one of the samples dropped off (and it was a pre-debate sample).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on October 14, 2008, 12:04:24 PM
10/14/08

Obama 51 (nc)
McCain 42 (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 14, 2008, 12:04:58 PM


is this LV or RV?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on October 14, 2008, 12:06:18 PM

RV, LV (expanded) is 53-43, traditional LV is 51-45


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: BlueSwan on October 14, 2008, 12:09:23 PM
Tuesday 14th, 2008:

Somewhat reliable polls:
Gallup: Obama +9 (-1)
Rasmussen: Obama +5 (-)

Unreliable polls:
R2000: Obama +11 (-1)
Battleground: Obama +13 (+5)
Hotline: Obama +6 (-)
Zogby: Obama +6 (+2)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 14, 2008, 12:10:34 PM
Possibly the better weekend numbers on Gallup for Obama (or worse for McCain).

Hotline might be "semi reliable."


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 14, 2008, 12:19:44 PM

We really need to post all three:

RV
Obama 51
McCain 42

LV (new voter formula)
Obama 53
McCain 43

LV (traditional)
Obama 51
McCain 45


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on October 14, 2008, 12:22:53 PM
LV (new voter formula)
Obama 53
McCain 43

LV (traditional)
Obama 51
McCain 45

which one is better?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 14, 2008, 12:26:07 PM
LV (new voter formula)
Obama 53
McCain 43

LV (traditional)
Obama 51
McCain 45

which one is better?

Really no way of knowing until after the election.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on October 14, 2008, 12:26:56 PM
LV (new voter formula)
Obama 53
McCain 43

LV (traditional)
Obama 51
McCain 45

which one is better?

Really no way of knowing until after the election.

if we took that attitude for everything we'd have no reason to post here!  and wouldn't that be a shame.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on October 14, 2008, 12:27:40 PM
LV (new voter formula)
Obama 53
McCain 43

LV (traditional)
Obama 51
McCain 45

which one is better?

If you think the turnout models in 2004 and previous elections will be the same in this election, use the traditional model. If you think turnout models will be different, and there will be plenty of new voters, then use the new model.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 14, 2008, 12:28:09 PM
LV (new voter formula)
Obama 53
McCain 43

LV (traditional)
Obama 51
McCain 45

which one is better?

Since they really don't describe how they come to a determination, it is hard for me to say what exactly the method is and why one should be better.  My question for Vorlon to ask Gallup is which of the 13 questions do they remove in the new model.

I note that the traditional determination (for today) produces a 76.6% RV turnout, whereas the new voter model produces an 82.0% RV turnout.

RV turnout in 2004 was 72.9%.  Therefore, I would tend to go with the traditional model.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 14, 2008, 12:40:28 PM
LV (new voter formula)
Obama 53
McCain 43

LV (traditional)
Obama 51
McCain 45

which one is better?

Since they really don't describe how they come to a determination, it is hard for me to say what exactly the method is and why one should be better.  My question for Vorlon to ask Gallup is which of the 13 questions do they remove in the new model.

I note that the traditional determination (for today) produces a 76.6% RV turnout, whereas the new voter model produces an 82.0% RV turnout.

RV turnout in 2004 was 72.9%.  Therefore, I would tend to go with the traditional model.

yes, and given the excitement in the GOP base for Palin, I would think it's closer to the traditional model.

Obama has shattered the blindness he once preached of ending the war and bringing all the troops home, so I think the youth vote (which rarely materializes anyway) is not going to markedly increase over 2004 levels.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 14, 2008, 01:52:03 PM
J. J.'s Second Rule.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 14, 2008, 02:14:52 PM
Your rule says that people aren't allowed to guess that turnout levels will be the same as 2004 and no substantial hidden groups will emerge?  I thought it said the opposite.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 14, 2008, 03:56:27 PM
LV (new voter formula)
Obama 53
McCain 43

LV (traditional)
Obama 51
McCain 45

which one is better?

Since they really don't describe how they come to a determination, it is hard for me to say what exactly the method is and why one should be better.  My question for Vorlon to ask Gallup is which of the 13 questions do they remove in the new model.

I note that the traditional determination (for today) produces a 76.6% RV turnout, whereas the new voter model produces an 82.0% RV turnout.

RV turnout in 2004 was 72.9%.  Therefore, I would tend to go with the traditional model.

yes, and given the excitement in the GOP base for Palin, I would think it's closer to the traditional model.

Obama has shattered the blindness he once preached of ending the war and bringing all the troops home, so I think the youth vote (which rarely materializes anyway) is not going to markedly increase over 2004 levels.
Yeah, youth voters are hardly single issue. They still care about the environment, the economy, healthcare, education, etc. and they're still pretty damn excited.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 14, 2008, 04:24:05 PM
Your rule says that people aren't allowed to guess that turnout levels will be the same as 2004 and no substantial hidden groups will emerge?  I thought it said the opposite.

J. J.'s Second Rule of Elections:  "When a politician or activist talks about a large group of voters that, a. aren't being polled, or b. really going to turn out and swing the election, there is no such group."


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 14, 2008, 04:26:48 PM
Your rule says that people aren't allowed to guess that turnout levels will be the same as 2004 and no substantial hidden groups will emerge?  I thought it said the opposite.

J. J.'s Second Rule of Elections:  "When a politician or activist talks about a large group of voters that, a. aren't being polled, or b. really going to turn out and swing the election, there is no such group."


All someone did was say that they did *not* see any increased relative youth turnout... what group are you seeing? 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 14, 2008, 04:32:18 PM
Your rule says that people aren't allowed to guess that turnout levels will be the same as 2004 and no substantial hidden groups will emerge?  I thought it said the opposite.

J. J.'s Second Rule of Elections:  "When a politician or activist talks about a large group of voters that, a. aren't being polled, or b. really going to turn out and swing the election, there is no such group."


All someone did was say that they did *not* see any increased relative youth turnout... what group are you seeing? 

"b. really going to turn out and swing the election"

This rule was proven incorrect when John Kerry carried Florida in 2004.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 14, 2008, 04:36:21 PM
Your rule says that people aren't allowed to guess that turnout levels will be the same as 2004 and no substantial hidden groups will emerge?  I thought it said the opposite.

J. J.'s Second Rule of Elections:  "When a politician or activist talks about a large group of voters that, a. aren't being polled, or b. really going to turn out and swing the election, there is no such group."


All someone did was say that they did *not* see any increased relative youth turnout... what group are you seeing? 

"b. really going to turn out and swing the election"

This rule was proven incorrect when John Kerry carried Florida in 2004.

I'm still confused.  Quote me the post in this thread you're talking about... because all I see is this, right before your posst:

Quote
I would think it's closer to the traditional model.
Quote
the youth vote (which rarely materializes anyway) is not going to markedly increase over 2004 levels.

I'm just trying out if your rule now applies to the inverse of your rule so I can avoid breaking it! We can't say that things will turnout and we can't say that they probably won't turnout now?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 14, 2008, 04:50:49 PM
These:

LV (new voter formula)
Obama 53
McCain 43

LV (traditional)
Obama 51
McCain 45

which one is better?

Since they really don't describe how they come to a determination, it is hard for me to say what exactly the method is and why one should be better.  My question for Vorlon to ask Gallup is which of the 13 questions do they remove in the new model.

I note that the traditional determination (for today) produces a 76.6% RV turnout, whereas the new voter model produces an 82.0% RV turnout.

RV turnout in 2004 was 72.9%.  Therefore, I would tend to go with the traditional model.

yes, and given the excitement in the GOP base for Palin, I would think it's closer to the traditional model.

Obama has shattered the blindness he once preached of ending the war and bringing all the troops home, so I think the youth vote (which rarely materializes anyway) is not going to markedly increase over 2004 levels.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on October 14, 2008, 08:18:34 PM
Your rule says that people aren't allowed to guess that turnout levels will be the same as 2004 and no substantial hidden groups will emerge?  I thought it said the opposite.

J. J.'s Second Rule of Elections:  "When a politician or activist talks about a large group of voters that, a. aren't being polled, or b. really going to turn out and swing the election, there is no such group."


Except this is a special case because they are being polled, but the pollsters can't bring themselves to believe that they'll actually vote even though they say they will. So they hedge their bets and include two poll results, one if they do vote, and one if they don't.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 14, 2008, 08:42:31 PM
Your rule says that people aren't allowed to guess that turnout levels will be the same as 2004 and no substantial hidden groups will emerge?  I thought it said the opposite.

J. J.'s Second Rule of Elections:  "When a politician or activist talks about a large group of voters that, a. aren't being polled, or b. really going to turn out and swing the election, there is no such group."


Except this is a special case because they are being polled, but the pollsters can't bring themselves to believe that they'll actually vote even though they say they will. So they hedge their bets and include two poll results, one if they do vote, and one if they don't.

Then they are being polled, aren't they?  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Likely Voter on October 15, 2008, 10:16:53 AM
From what I can tell it is the McCain supporters who are talking about an unpolled group, or the racists within their hoped for Bradley effect. The 'new voters' and 'young voters' seem to be showing up now in Gallups 'expanded' likely voter model.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on October 15, 2008, 10:32:38 AM
From what I can tell it is the McCain supporters who are talking about an unpolled group, or the racists within their hoped for Bradley effect. The 'new voters' and 'young voters' seem to be showing up now in Gallups 'expanded' likely voter model.



I would be very careful about any assumptions of any kind.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 15, 2008, 12:10:07 PM
October 15, 2008

RV
Obama 50 (-1)
McCain 43 (+1)

LV (new voter formula)
Obama 52 (-1)
McCain 44 (+1)

LV (traditional)
Obama 49 (-2)
McCain 46 (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 15, 2008, 12:16:43 PM
Probably at least partly due to Obama's weekend bounce dropping out. 

Keep cool everyone. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 15, 2008, 12:21:31 PM
October 15, 2008

RV
Obama 50 (-1)
McCain 43 (+1)

LV (new voter formula)
Obama 52 (-1)
McCain 44 (+1)

LV (traditional)
Obama 49 (-2)
McCain 46 (+1)

Please don't give me reason to wish.  I was content with hopelessness.
()



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Gustaf on October 15, 2008, 12:38:21 PM
Is there someone keeping track of the days who can tell whether this was likely to be a bad sample or if it has any significance?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on October 15, 2008, 12:46:01 PM
Is there someone keeping track of the days who can tell whether this was likely to be a bad sample or if it has any significance?

Swedes live in the future... you tell us!

/Lametimezonejoke

Even a day that looks like an outlier may not be one. I'm not saying it isn't, though.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 15, 2008, 01:02:57 PM
I personally suspect the sample dropping off tomorrow is a pro-Obama sample, but with the Dow doing as it is today, it may be replaced by a similar one.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on October 15, 2008, 03:38:45 PM
I personally suspect the sample dropping off tomorrow is a pro-Obama sample, but with the Dow doing as it is today, it may be replaced by a similar one.

Yikes, just Google Finance-d the Dow.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 15, 2008, 04:21:48 PM
October 15, 2008

RV
Obama 50 (-1)
McCain 43 (+1)

LV (new voter formula)
Obama 52 (-1)
McCain 44 (+1)

LV (traditional)
Obama 49 (-2)
McCain 46 (+1)

Boo!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 15, 2008, 04:23:57 PM
I personally suspect the sample dropping off tomorrow is a pro-Obama sample, but with the Dow doing as it is today, it may be replaced by a similar one.

Yikes, just Google Finance-d the Dow.

I guess we know what the first debate question will refer to...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 15, 2008, 06:21:16 PM
Obama is up by only 3 in the second likely voter model!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ty440 on October 15, 2008, 06:32:53 PM
Obama is up by only 3 in the second likely voter model!

Add the M.O.E. plus the unknown bradley effect which there MAY or MAY NOT be...Well you do the math :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on October 15, 2008, 06:33:54 PM
My guess is that the 2nd likely voter model has the party identification as 37-37 D-R like in 2004.

That won't be the case this election.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 15, 2008, 06:38:43 PM
My guess is that the 2nd likely voter model has the party identification as 37-37 D-R like in 2004.

That won't be the case this election.

The prophet ChrisFromNJ speaks again.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 15, 2008, 06:44:56 PM
My guess is that the 2nd likely voter model has the party identification as 37-37 D-R like in 2004.

That won't be the case this election.

The prophet ChrisFromNJ speaks again.



We saw the sme claims here for years ago.  Remember how all the new voters swung FL to Kerry.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 15, 2008, 06:57:35 PM
My guess is that the 2nd likely voter model has the party identification as 37-37 D-R like in 2004.

And that is based on?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ty440 on October 15, 2008, 07:01:28 PM
My guess is that the 2nd likely voter model has the party identification as 37-37 D-R like in 2004.

That won't be the case this election.

The prophet ChrisFromNJ speaks again.



We saw the sme claims here for years ago.  Remember how all the new voters swung FL to Kerry.

Deja Vu from 2004. The youth vote is gonna come out in record numbers and shatter all records in  turnout.

And yet the day after Bush was reelected.. it's was clear that the youth vote just didn't show.

The cult of the youth voter remains, once again, the most absurd, bogus, childish, romantic and misguided joke of liberal American politics.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on October 15, 2008, 07:02:22 PM
My guess is that the 2nd likely voter model has the party identification as 37-37 D-R like in 2004.

That won't be the case this election.

The prophet ChrisFromNJ speaks again.



We saw the sme claims here for years ago.  Remember how all the new voters swung FL to Kerry.

Deja Vu from 2004. The youth vote is gonna come out in record numbers and shatter all records in  turnout.

And yet the day after Bush was reelected.. it's was clear that the youth vote just didn't show.

The cult of the youth voter remains, once again, the most absurd, bogus, childish, romantic and misguided joke of liberal American politics.


Scoreboard.

You might want to check it out.

Barack Obama leads in the polls. That wasn't the case in 2004.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 15, 2008, 07:03:27 PM
My guess is that the 2nd likely voter model has the party identification as 37-37 D-R like in 2004.

That won't be the case this election.

The prophet ChrisFromNJ speaks again.



We saw the sme claims here for years ago.  Remember how all the new voters swung FL to Kerry.

Deja Vu from 2004. The youth vote is gonna come out in record numbers and shatter all records in  turnout.

And yet the day after Bush was reelected.. it's was clear that the youth vote just didn't show.

The cult of the youth voter remains, once again, the most absurd, bogus, childish, romantic and misguided joke of liberal American politics.


Scoreboard.

You might want to check it out.

Barack Obama leads in the polls. That wasn't the case in 2004.

A lead that is that declining.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ty440 on October 15, 2008, 07:10:01 PM
My guess is that the 2nd likely voter model has the party identification as 37-37 D-R like in 2004.

That won't be the case this election.

The prophet ChrisFromNJ speaks again.



We saw the sme claims here for years ago.  Remember how all the new voters swung FL to Kerry.

Deja Vu from 2004. The youth vote is gonna come out in record numbers and shatter all records in  turnout.

And yet the day after Bush was reelected.. it's was clear that the youth vote just didn't show.

The cult of the youth voter remains, once again, the most absurd, bogus, childish, romantic and misguided joke of liberal American politics.


Scoreboard.

You might want to check it out.

Barack Obama leads in the polls. That wasn't the case in 2004.

Your correct.. I'm no fool...Lets see where we stand in 19 days right NOW  it's advantage  Obama. I believe things will tighten how much only time will tell.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 15, 2008, 11:55:06 PM
My guess is that the 2nd likely voter model has the party identification as 37-37 D-R like in 2004.

That won't be the case this election.

The prophet ChrisFromNJ speaks again.



We saw the sme claims here for years ago.  Remember how all the new voters swung FL to Kerry.

Deja Vu from 2004. The youth vote is gonna come out in record numbers and shatter all records in  turnout.

And yet the day after Bush was reelected.. it's was clear that the youth vote just didn't show.

The cult of the youth voter remains, once again, the most absurd, bogus, childish, romantic and misguided joke of liberal American politics.

Yes, remember how it was going to turn out big and propel Obama to victory over Hillary but turnout of the youth vote was minimal...oh wait.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 16, 2008, 12:53:07 AM
A reminder: https://uselectionatlas.org/POLLS/PRESIDENT/2008D/polls.php?fips=55

PPP claimed the reason for the discrepancy was all other posters (excluding ARG for obvious reasons) were using a traditional turnout model while they were using a new one boosting black and youth turnout.

It turns out PPP actually underestimated Obama.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on October 16, 2008, 06:10:59 AM
My guess is that the 2nd likely voter model has the party identification as 37-37 D-R like in 2004.

And that is based on?
Not exactly that, necessarily. But he's got the basic point right - the traditional turnout model is more of a Republican Best Case Scenario than anything else. Basically, we know it's wrong, we know it's too Republican, we're just in the dark as to by how much (we don't even know whether the new model is better. Then again, we can't rule out that the new model is still too Republican ;D )

As to all the idiot misinterpretations of the relationship between the pre-04 hackery and what actually happened in 04 (not that the relationship was particularly straightforward): There was unprecented (well. Within the past thirty years) new and youth turnout in 2004. And it did lean Democratic nationally, and it's what kept the EC result respectable.
But it didn't lean Democratic by sufficiently much to swing the election (or to throw the pollsters' traditional turnout models too far off course), and in sizable parts of the country - the South, mostly - it didn't lean Democratic at all. It leant Republican.
Now... these New Voters aren't exactly a monolithic block. There are parallels between the Dems' and the Reps' new voters, but there are differences too (I won't go into detailed stereotyping here).
And now ask yourself: Are the Dems' new voters going to vote Democratic again? You betcha.
Are the Reps' new voters going to vote Republican again? Are they going to vote again? I don't really think so. I still think turnout will probably be somewhat lower than four years ago.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 16, 2008, 06:33:16 AM
A reminder: https://uselectionatlas.org/POLLS/PRESIDENT/2008D/polls.php?fips=55

PPP claimed the reason for the discrepancy was all other posters (excluding ARG for obvious reasons) were using a traditional turnout model while they were using a new one boosting black and youth turnout.

It turns out PPP actually underestimated Obama.

You just violated J. J.'s Second Rule, again.

I think it might be between the two turnout numbers, but any candidate that will count on it is usually in trouble.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on October 16, 2008, 06:40:45 AM
A reminder: https://uselectionatlas.org/POLLS/PRESIDENT/2008D/polls.php?fips=55

PPP claimed the reason for the discrepancy was all other posters (excluding ARG for obvious reasons) were using a traditional turnout model while they were using a new one boosting black and youth turnout.

It turns out PPP actually underestimated Obama.

You just violated J. J.'s Second Rule, again.

I think it might be between the two turnout numbers, but any candidate that will count on it is usually in trouble.
He did not, because he is not a candidate.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 16, 2008, 06:49:40 AM
A reminder: https://uselectionatlas.org/POLLS/PRESIDENT/2008D/polls.php?fips=55

PPP claimed the reason for the discrepancy was all other posters (excluding ARG for obvious reasons) were using a traditional turnout model while they were using a new one boosting black and youth turnout.

It turns out PPP actually underestimated Obama.

You just violated J. J.'s Second Rule, again.

I think it might be between the two turnout numbers, but any candidate that will count on it is usually in trouble.
He did not, because he is not a candidate.

The rule doesn't just apply to the candidate. 

J. J.'s Second Rule of Elections"When a politician or activist talks about a large group of voters that, a. aren't being polled, or b. really going to turn out and swing the election, there is no such group."

The candidate isn't necessarily involved.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 16, 2008, 06:51:07 AM
Here are some findings from Gallup's tracking for week (Oct. 6-12). I've been monitoring certain constituency groups for a while.

http://www.gallup.com/tag/Election%2bTrends%2bby%2bGroup.aspx

Core constituency groups for Obama include blacks, Democrats, Hispanics, 18-to-29-year-olds, postgraduates and women. He leads McCain by 88, 78, 29, 34, 23 and 14 respectively

Core constituency groups for McCain include Republicans, whites, 65-years-and-older and men. McCain leads Obama by 78 and 4, yet Obama now leads McCain by 1 among seniors and by 5 among men

Obama, indeed, leads McCain among all age groups (30-to-49, by 5; 50-to-64 by 9) and all education groups (no college, by 11; "some college", by 5; college graduates, by 6) and among Independents, by 10

Regionally, in the East, Obama leads by 19; in the Midwest, Obama leads by 20 and in the West, Obama leads by 8. McCain leads Obama in the South by 2

In "blue", Obama leads McCain by 21; in "red", McCain leads Obama by 4 and in "purple" states, Obama leads McCain by 17

There's a whole range of other demographic tracking data, for example, Obama leads among liberals and moderates, McCain among conservatives, etc

This data is for registered voters and last week Obama , aggregately, polled 50% and McCain 40%

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on October 16, 2008, 06:56:37 AM
A reminder: https://uselectionatlas.org/POLLS/PRESIDENT/2008D/polls.php?fips=55

PPP claimed the reason for the discrepancy was all other posters (excluding ARG for obvious reasons) were using a traditional turnout model while they were using a new one boosting black and youth turnout.

It turns out PPP actually underestimated Obama.

You just violated J. J.'s Second Rule, again.

I think it might be between the two turnout numbers, but any candidate that will count on it is usually in trouble.
He did not, because he is not a candidate.

The rule doesn't just apply to the candidate. 

J. J.'s Second Rule of Elections"When a politician or activist talks about a large group of voters that, a. aren't being polled, or b. really going to turn out and swing the election, there is no such group."

The candidate isn't necessarily involved.


They are being polled - just sampled down.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 16, 2008, 06:58:22 AM
Here are some findings from Gallup's tracking for week (Oct. 6-12). I've been monitoring certain constituency groups for a while.

http://www.gallup.com/tag/Election%2bTrends%2bby%2bGroup.aspx

Core constituency groups for Obama include blacks, Democrats, Hispanics, 18-to-29-year-olds, postgraduates and women. He leads McCain by 88, 78, 29, 34, 23 and 14 respectively

Core constituency groups for McCain include Republicans, whites, 65-years-and-older and men. McCain leads Obama by 78 and 4, yet Obama now leads McCain by 1 among seniors and by 5 among men

Obama, indeed, leads McCain among all age groups (30-to-49, by 5; 50-to-64 by 9) and all education groups (no college, by 11; "some college", by 5; college graduates, by 6) and among Independents, by 10

Regionally, in the East, Obama leads by 19; in the Midwest, Obama leads by 20 and in the West, Obama leads by 8. McCain leads Obama in the South by 2

In "blue", Obama leads McCain by 21; in "red", McCain leads Obama by 4 and in "purple" states, Obama leads McCain by 17

There's a whole range of other demographic tracking data, for example, Obama leads among liberals and moderates, McCain among conservatives, etc

This data is for registered voters and last week Obama , aggregately, polled 50% and McCain 40%

Dave

Recent Obama Surge Evident Among Men, Less Educated (16 October, 2008)

Independents have also swung strongly to Obama

http://www.gallup.com/poll/111205/Recent-Obama-Surge-Evident-Among-Men-Less-Educated.aspx


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 16, 2008, 10:27:06 AM
A reminder: https://uselectionatlas.org/POLLS/PRESIDENT/2008D/polls.php?fips=55

PPP claimed the reason for the discrepancy was all other posters (excluding ARG for obvious reasons) were using a traditional turnout model while they were using a new one boosting black and youth turnout.

It turns out PPP actually underestimated Obama.

You just violated J. J.'s Second Rule, again.

I think it might be between the two turnout numbers, but any candidate that will count on it is usually in trouble.
He did not, because he is not a candidate.

The rule doesn't just apply to the candidate. 

J. J.'s Second Rule of Elections"When a politician or activist talks about a large group of voters that, a. aren't being polled, or b. really going to turn out and swing the election, there is no such group."

The candidate isn't necessarily involved.

As did PPP, and they were more accurate than any other pollster in this case. So then what?

*Ed8t* Actually not really. See Lewis' comment. PPP didn't violate the rule (and really, no pollster can)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 16, 2008, 12:05:51 PM
October 16, 2008

RV
Obama 49 (-1)
McCain 43 (nc)

LV (new voter formula)
Obama 51 (-1)
McCain 45 (+1)

LV (traditional)
Obama 49 (nc)
McCain 47 (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 16, 2008, 12:07:55 PM
Yeah, I'm going to have to go with the non-traditional one.  I'd rather not believe that Obama is only two up, thank you very much.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 16, 2008, 12:11:50 PM
I'll take it that Obama is up by 4 nationally.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 16, 2008, 12:19:58 PM
October 16, 2008

RV
Obama 49 (-1)
McCain 43 (nc)

LV (new voter formula)
Obama 51 (-1)
McCain 45 (+1)

LV (traditional)
Obama 49 (nc)
McCain 47 (+1)

great, now opebo, J.J., and Keystone Phil will be seen as oracles.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Umengus on October 16, 2008, 12:24:36 PM
Yeah, I'm going to have to go with the non-traditional one.  I'd rather not believe that Obama is only two up, thank you very much.

Gallup makes everybody happy


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 16, 2008, 12:24:47 PM
WTF? Are we gonna have a race again or is this a dead cat bounce?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on October 16, 2008, 12:26:42 PM
Again Obama is very close to that 50 point mark. If he falls below 48....that could mean trouble.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reds4 on October 16, 2008, 12:42:29 PM
As a McCain supporter I don't put too much stock in any slight gains he is seeing right now.. If the race has tightened to 3 or 4 nationally by next week at this time though it would be different.. for now... noise..


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 16, 2008, 01:46:00 PM
October 16, 2008

RV
Obama 49 (-1)
McCain 43 (nc)

LV (new voter formula)
Obama 51 (-1)
McCain 45 (+1)

LV (traditional)
Obama 49 (nc)
McCain 47 (+1)

great, now opebo, J.J., and Keystone Phil will be seen as oracles.

"What we do we do rationally
We never ever go off half-cocked, not we
Why begin till we know that we can win
And if we cannot win why bother to begin?

We say this game's not of our choosing
Why should we risk losing?
All:
We are cool

To the right, ever to the right
Never to the left, forever to the right
We have gold, a market that will hold
Tradition that is old, a reluctance to be bold.

I sing hosanna, hosanna
In a sane and lucid manner
We are cool"

Cool Cool Considerate Men . 1776, 1969  :P

My guess is that Obama is up by 3-4 points.  Any effects of the markets and of the debate will not show up until Saturday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 16, 2008, 03:50:30 PM
I'll take it that Obama is up by 4 nationally.

Where are you getting 4 from?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 16, 2008, 03:54:24 PM
I'll take it that Obama is up by 4 nationally.

Where are you getting 4 from?

On this poll:

LV (new voter formula)
Obama 51 (-1)
McCain 45 (+1)

+6 Obama

LV (traditional)
Obama 49 (nc)
McCain 47 (+1)

+2 Obama

The 'bots say +4.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 16, 2008, 04:09:49 PM
Drudge has the headline "SHOCK POLL: OBAMA 49 McCAIN 47"

Oh Drudge... lol.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on October 16, 2008, 04:10:21 PM
Drudge has the headline "SHOCK POLL: OBAMA 49 McCAIN 47"

Oh Drudge... lol.

Why do left wingers visit that hack's site?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 16, 2008, 04:11:15 PM
Drudge has the headline "SHOCK POLL: OBAMA 49 McCAIN 47"

Oh Drudge... lol.

He's right, so far as he goes.  LOL.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on October 16, 2008, 04:13:39 PM
Drudge has the headline "SHOCK POLL: OBAMA 49 McCAIN 47"

Oh Drudge... lol.

He's right, so far as he goes.  LOL.

He's right only if you cherry pick data. Typical Drudge.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 16, 2008, 04:20:04 PM
Drudge has the headline "SHOCK POLL: OBAMA 49 McCAIN 47"

Oh Drudge... lol.

He's right, so far as he goes.  LOL.

McCain moving up a point from yesterday is a ''shock poll''?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 16, 2008, 04:20:20 PM
Drudge is quite predictable sometimes.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 16, 2008, 04:25:30 PM
Palin changed Drudge's mood on the race, he decided to do everything he could to boost the GOP ticket after she was picked..


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 16, 2008, 04:29:18 PM
Drudge has the headline "SHOCK POLL: OBAMA 49 McCAIN 47"

Oh Drudge... lol.

He's right, so far as he goes.  LOL.

McCain moving up a point from yesterday is a ''shock poll''?

The likely voter one is.  I think the real story is the closing across polls.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 16, 2008, 04:29:49 PM
Palin changed Drudge's mood on the race, he decided to do everything he could to boost the GOP ticket after she was picked..

Must be in love.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on October 16, 2008, 05:41:43 PM
I saw that. I'm finished trying to guess this race. I'll just wait till the votes come in.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on October 16, 2008, 05:45:21 PM
I saw that. I'm finished trying to guess this race. I'll just wait till the votes come in.

Obama probably peaked last week. The race is back on now, even Obama is worried. He told his supporters at a New York fundraiser not to let down their guard and keep fighting. That alone proves that even Obama knows his victory isn't certain.

Prevent Defense sucks.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on October 16, 2008, 05:49:17 PM
Well I'm not sold on an Obama victory just yet. McCain seems to have done better in the debate lady night, especially if ChrisNJ admits it. The state polls still don't matchup, but I know they always lag behind the national ones.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ty440 on October 16, 2008, 05:49:33 PM
I saw that. I'm finished trying to guess this race. I'll just wait till the votes come in.

Obama probably peaked last week. The race is back on now, even Obama is worried. He told his supporters at a New York fundraiser not to let down their guard and keep fighting. That alone proves that even Obama knows his victory isn't certain.

Prevent Defense sucks.

As long as no da*n extenal events happen, and the DOW  stablilizes. Ladies and gentlemen we will have a toss-up race by the middle of next week.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 16, 2008, 07:35:54 PM
Drudge has the headline "SHOCK POLL: OBAMA 49 McCAIN 47"

Oh Drudge... lol.

He's right, so far as he goes.  LOL.

McCain moving up a point from yesterday is a ''shock poll''?

The likely voter one is.  I think the real story is the closing across polls.

Movement of a point in Gallup or Rasmussen is not shocking. Now if McCain actually took the lead back in either of these polls, that would be pretty surprising.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 16, 2008, 07:37:26 PM
Well I'm not sold on an Obama victory just yet. McCain seems to have done better in the debate lady night, especially if ChrisNJ admits it. The state polls still don't matchup, but I know they always lag behind the national ones.

ChrisfromNJ didn't even watch the debate.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 16, 2008, 07:40:01 PM
Drudge has the headline "SHOCK POLL: OBAMA 49 McCAIN 47"

Oh Drudge... lol.

He's right, so far as he goes.  LOL.

McCain moving up a point from yesterday is a ''shock poll''?

The likely voter one is.  I think the real story is the closing across polls.

Movement of a point in Gallup or Rasmussen is not shocking. Now if McCain actually took the lead back in either of these polls, that would be pretty surprising.

An 11 point to 2 point difference in a week is "shocking" unless you are one of us and follow the polls closely.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 16, 2008, 07:45:12 PM
Drudge has the headline "SHOCK POLL: OBAMA 49 McCAIN 47"

Oh Drudge... lol.

He's right, so far as he goes.  LOL.

McCain moving up a point from yesterday is a ''shock poll''?

The likely voter one is.  I think the real story is the closing across polls.

Movement of a point in Gallup or Rasmussen is not shocking. Now if McCain actually took the lead back in either of these polls, that would be pretty surprising.

An 11 point to 2 point difference in a week is "shocking" unless you are one of us and follow the polls closely.

Well, it didn't go from 11 to 2. Those are different polls. People who can't understand that should be called out for being dumbs.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 16, 2008, 07:52:21 PM
Drudge has the headline "SHOCK POLL: OBAMA 49 McCAIN 47"

Oh Drudge... lol.

He's right, so far as he goes.  LOL.

McCain moving up a point from yesterday is a ''shock poll''?

The likely voter one is.  I think the real story is the closing across polls.

Movement of a point in Gallup or Rasmussen is not shocking. Now if McCain actually took the lead back in either of these polls, that would be pretty surprising.

An 11 point to 2 point difference in a week is "shocking" unless you are one of us and follow the polls closely.

That 11-point difference is now a 6-point difference, J. J. Registered voters remember :)

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 16, 2008, 08:20:29 PM
Drudge has the headline "SHOCK POLL: OBAMA 49 McCAIN 47"

Oh Drudge... lol.

He's right, so far as he goes.  LOL.

McCain moving up a point from yesterday is a ''shock poll''?

The likely voter one is.  I think the real story is the closing across polls.

Movement of a point in Gallup or Rasmussen is not shocking. Now if McCain actually took the lead back in either of these polls, that would be pretty surprising.

An 11 point to 2 point difference in a week is "shocking" unless you are one of us and follow the polls closely.

That 11-point difference is now a 6-point difference, J. J. Registered voters remember :)

Dave

Like I said, "unless you are one of us and follow the polls closely."  You know that there is a difference, but it is very likely that most people won't.

In reality that 11 point lead was just a bad sample, in all probability and Obama hasn't really "dropped" by 6 points, much less 9.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on October 16, 2008, 08:28:36 PM

Like I said, "unless you are one of us and follow the polls closely."  You know that there is a difference, but it is very likely that most people won't.

You're being intellectually dishonest. YOU know the difference.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wall St. Wiz on October 16, 2008, 08:33:00 PM
I'm not getting my hopes up.  When the 700 point Dow slide and the debate make their way into the polls tomorrow, I expect Obama to get a 2 point bounce tomorrow.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Small Business Owner of Any Repute on October 16, 2008, 08:35:50 PM
I'm not getting my hopes up.  When the 700 point Dow slide and the debate make their way into the polls tomorrow, I expect Obama to get a 2 point bounce tomorrow.

Wouldn't the 700 point slide already be factored into these polls?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 16, 2008, 08:37:20 PM
I'm not getting my hopes up.  When the 700 point Dow slide and the debate make their way into the polls tomorrow, I expect Obama to get a 2 point bounce tomorrow.

Wouldn't the 700 point slide already be factored into these polls?

Yeah how about today's 400 point gain?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on October 16, 2008, 08:41:08 PM
This is absurd. These daily stock market gains or losses have no impact on the presidential race.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wall St. Wiz on October 16, 2008, 08:47:44 PM
I'm not getting my hopes up.  When the 700 point Dow slide and the debate make their way into the polls tomorrow, I expect Obama to get a 2 point bounce tomorrow.

Wouldn't the 700 point slide already be factored into these polls?

Yeah how about today's 400 point gain?

Yeah it is partially factored in, but I think the media coverage at night when people get home from work and in the papers the next morning do have an effect that takes more then one day to see in the polls.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 16, 2008, 09:06:51 PM
This is absurd. These daily stock market gains or losses have no impact on the stock market!

Well that made zero sense.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 16, 2008, 09:09:59 PM

Like I said, "unless you are one of us and follow the polls closely."  You know that there is a difference, but it is very likely that most people won't.

You're being intellectually dishonest. YOU know the difference.

First, I'm not Drudge, who ran the headline.

Second, I wasn't complaining when, last week, the media touted the 11 point "lead" in Gallup, so I'm not treating Drudge any differently; the other poll, Rasmussen, and the "lesser polls" did not show that.  As I said, "accurate as far as it goes."   Unlike you, and the media, I'm not being hypocritical about it.

And I do agree that this does not reflect any reaction to the debate.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on October 16, 2008, 09:23:25 PM
This is absurd. These daily stock market gains or losses have no impact on the stock market!

Well that made zero sense.

You know what I meant.

I edited it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 16, 2008, 09:49:09 PM
This is absurd. These daily stock market gains or losses have no impact on the stock market!

Well that made zero sense.

You know what I meant.

I edited it.

I think they can, but not trading within a range, which is what we have, so far.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: muon2 on October 16, 2008, 09:52:25 PM
If Gallup and the other polls show some closing in the margin that may not be to surprising. I've cited the 1976 race previously where Ford closed a similar mid Oct gap to get within 2% by election day. Gore likewise was the candidate of the incumbent party and closed a lesser gap to take the popular vote.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 16, 2008, 10:04:21 PM
Nate Silver's attack today on Drudge's poll placement is amusing...

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/10/16/today-s-polls-just-say-no-to-drudge.aspx


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: classical liberal on October 16, 2008, 10:11:53 PM
If Gallup and the other polls show some closing in the margin that may not be to surprising. I've cited the 1976 race previously where Ford closed a similar mid Oct gap to get within 2% by election day. Gore likewise was the candidate of the incumbent party and closed a lesser gap to take the popular vote.

The people who haven't already decided to vote against the incumbent party by the time early voting starts are overwhelmingly likely to never decide to do so.  As much hay has been made of this election being a referendum on Obama (i.e., the dominant media narrative), it is really about Bush.  More specifically, it is about the degree to which Independents ascribe to McCain the specific things about Bush that they dislike.  If someone has yet decided that McCain is too much like Bush to support by now, they likely will not have done so by the time that they vote.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 16, 2008, 10:22:50 PM
Nate Silver's attack today on Drudge's poll placement is amusing...

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/10/16/today-s-polls-just-say-no-to-drudge.aspx

Quite humorous, considering he has Rasmussen numbers off by two.  ::)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 16, 2008, 10:35:32 PM
Nate Silver's attack today on Drudge's poll placement is amusing...

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/10/16/today-s-polls-just-say-no-to-drudge.aspx

Good stuff.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on October 17, 2008, 11:58:35 AM

Haha...as a Ravens fan under the Billick regime, we were very familiar with the prevent defense.

We probably lost 2-3 games/year that way.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on October 17, 2008, 12:07:24 PM
RV

Obama 50 (+1)
McCain 43 (nc)

LV (expanded)

Obama 51 (nc)
McCain 45 (nc)

LV (traditional)

Obama 49 (nc)
McCain 47 (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on October 17, 2008, 12:11:20 PM
RV

Obama 50 (+1)
McCain 43 (nc)

LV (expanded)

Obama 51 (nc)
McCain 45 (nc)

LV (traditional)

Obama 49 (nc)
McCain 47 (nc)

ZOMG Obama's slipping again by not leading by 10!!!!!!11!!1eleventy


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 17, 2008, 12:11:50 PM
Things seem to have stayed the same after the debate.  It seems to be Obama + 4 nationally.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 17, 2008, 12:59:11 PM
I'd be keeping my eye on this one; McCain tends to do better on Gallup late week on Gallup (at least over the summer).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Likely Voter on October 17, 2008, 01:40:17 PM
if the race tightens more, it will start showing competing leaders...depending on which LV model.

So this election will be all about turnout and if the new voters, the african american voters and the young voters really do show up or not.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 17, 2008, 03:08:28 PM
RV

Obama 50 (+1)
McCain 43 (nc)

LV (expanded)

Obama 51 (nc)
McCain 45 (nc)

LV (traditional)

Obama 49 (nc)
McCain 47 (nc)

Okay, why did MSNBC just announce that Obama was up 5 points since Tuesday?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck on October 17, 2008, 03:08:42 PM
if the race tightens more, it will start showing competing leaders...depending on which LV model.

So this election will be all about turnout and if the new voters, the african american voters and the young voters really do show up or not.

The black voters are going to show up.  The young?  Who knows.... probably to an extent but not in any kind of massive numbers.  


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 17, 2008, 03:59:14 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on October 17, 2008, 04:23:03 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

Keep telling people that this race is over and that Obama is running away with it. We'll be eternally grateful.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 17, 2008, 04:53:07 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

Keep telling people that this race is over and that Obama is running away with it. We'll be eternally grateful.
I've never said that, Obama has never said that, the media won't ever say that.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on October 17, 2008, 05:04:56 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

Keep telling people that this race is over and that Obama is running away with it. We'll be eternally grateful.
I've never said that




Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 17, 2008, 05:06:48 PM
lol, I was making fun of JJ.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 17, 2008, 05:14:28 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

One obvious reason is living in a different city.  Perhaps 20% graduated and moved on.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on October 17, 2008, 06:06:04 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

One obvious reason is living in a different city.  Perhaps 20% graduated and moved on.

Do you lose your right to vote when you graduate?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 17, 2008, 06:09:59 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

One obvious reason is living in a different city.  Perhaps 20% graduated and moved on.

Do you lose your right to vote when you graduate?

You do tend to lose your residence.  In the US, you have to re-register at the new address.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 17, 2008, 06:39:22 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

One obvious reason is living in a different city.  Perhaps 20% graduated and moved on.

Do you lose your right to vote when you graduate?

You do tend to lose your residence.  In the US, you have to re-register at the new address.
Yeah, good thing the Obama campaign didn't spend the summer and fall registering millions of voters.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 17, 2008, 06:55:30 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

One obvious reason is living in a different city.  Perhaps 20% graduated and moved on.

Do you lose your right to vote when you graduate?

You do tend to lose your residence.  In the US, you have to re-register at the new address.
Yeah, good thing the Obama campaign didn't spend the summer and fall registering millions of voters.

Some of those younger people registered at home, and forgot to file for an absentee ballot; some get the application and forget to file it on time because they have a term paper due.  Some graduate, move on, and don't re-register.  Some move to different apartment in another precinct and forget to re-register.  Those little things may have an effect, just maybe a few 1000 here and there, but it makes a difference.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 17, 2008, 07:22:10 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

One obvious reason is living in a different city.  Perhaps 20% graduated and moved on.

Do you lose your right to vote when you graduate?

You do tend to lose your residence.  In the US, you have to re-register at the new address.
Yeah, good thing the Obama campaign didn't spend the summer and fall registering millions of voters.

Some of those younger people registered at home, and forgot to file for an absentee ballot; some get the application and forget to file it on time because they have a term paper due.  Some graduate, move on, and don't re-register.  Some move to different apartment in another precinct and forget to re-register.  Those little things may have an effect, just maybe a few 1000 here and there, but it makes a difference.
Those things can happen to non-young people also. 20-year-olds aren't lazier or stupider than the rest of the population.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on October 17, 2008, 07:23:58 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

One obvious reason is living in a different city.  Perhaps 20% graduated and moved on.

Do you lose your right to vote when you graduate?

You do tend to lose your residence.  In the US, you have to re-register at the new address.
Yeah, good thing the Obama campaign didn't spend the summer and fall registering millions of voters.

Some of those younger people registered at home, and forgot to file for an absentee ballot; some get the application and forget to file it on time because they have a term paper due.  Some graduate, move on, and don't re-register.  Some move to different apartment in another precinct and forget to re-register.  Those little things may have an effect, just maybe a few 1000 here and there, but it makes a difference.
Those things can happen to non-young people also. 20-year-olds aren't lazier or stupider than the rest of the population.

When it comes to voting, history tells us they are certainly lazier than the rest of the population. Of course, we know history has never stopped you from making outlandish assertions.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 17, 2008, 07:26:05 PM
And recent history, this year in fact, shows us that young people can and do vote.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Dan the Roman on October 17, 2008, 07:31:09 PM
On the topic of young voters, the biggest determinant is the amount of effort required. Many are probably already disenfranchised in many states by failing to register. Many will not want to face long lines.

The places I would expect the biggest push would be campuses in states with both early voting and same day registration. The combination makes it incredibly easy to vote, and given that at most liberals arts schools or universities Obama is drawing 75%+ support, its simply a matter of getting them to vote.

This is one reason why I never bought Maine's second district being competitive. It has a large student population, same-day registration, and early voting.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 17, 2008, 08:00:06 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

One obvious reason is living in a different city.  Perhaps 20% graduated and moved on.

Do you lose your right to vote when you graduate?

You do tend to lose your residence.  In the US, you have to re-register at the new address.
Yeah, good thing the Obama campaign didn't spend the summer and fall registering millions of voters.

Some of those younger people registered at home, and forgot to file for an absentee ballot; some get the application and forget to file it on time because they have a term paper due.  Some graduate, move on, and don't re-register.  Some move to different apartment in another precinct and forget to re-register.  Those little things may have an effect, just maybe a few 1000 here and there, but it makes a difference.
Those things can happen to non-young people also. 20-year-olds aren't lazier or stupider than the rest of the population.

When did I say going to college makes 20 year olds are "lazier or stupider than the rest of the population?"  I think this makes the argument that they are not.

Most 30 year olds, however, don't move from year to year.  He is my personal pattern.

Age         Number of moves

18                 1

19                 1

20                 2

21                 1

22                 2

23                 1

24-29            0

30                 1

31-35            0

36-46            0





Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on October 17, 2008, 10:38:33 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

One obvious reason is living in a different city.  Perhaps 20% graduated and moved on.

Do you lose your right to vote when you graduate?

You do tend to lose your residence.  In the US, you have to re-register at the new address.

A lot of them would've had the same problem in the primaries, though.

Heck, look at how high the youth turnout was in the Iowa caucus, which was held during winter break for the universities. The timing of the caucus during college vacation was something that I remember the media mentioning might doom Obama there.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on October 17, 2008, 10:40:21 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

One obvious reason is living in a different city.  Perhaps 20% graduated and moved on.

Do you lose your right to vote when you graduate?

You do tend to lose your residence.  In the US, you have to re-register at the new address.
Yeah, good thing the Obama campaign didn't spend the summer and fall registering millions of voters.

Some of those younger people registered at home, and forgot to file for an absentee ballot; some get the application and forget to file it on time because they have a term paper due.  Some graduate, move on, and don't re-register.  Some move to different apartment in another precinct and forget to re-register.  Those little things may have an effect, just maybe a few 1000 here and there, but it makes a difference.

True. And these are all good arguments as to why registration deadlines should be much closer to election day (ideally same day registration, which works beautifully in the states in which it is used).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 17, 2008, 10:45:14 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

One obvious reason is living in a different city.  Perhaps 20% graduated and moved on.

Do you lose your right to vote when you graduate?

You do tend to lose your residence.  In the US, you have to re-register at the new address.

A lot of them would've had the same problem in the primaries, though.

Heck, look at how high the youth turnout was in the Iowa caucus, which was held during winter break for the universities. The timing of the caucus during college vacation was something that I remember the media mentioning might doom Obama there.

Nym, in general, what time of the year to people graduate from college?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on October 17, 2008, 11:05:25 PM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

One obvious reason is living in a different city.  Perhaps 20% graduated and moved on.

Do you lose your right to vote when you graduate?

You do tend to lose your residence.  In the US, you have to re-register at the new address.

A lot of them would've had the same problem in the primaries, though.

Heck, look at how high the youth turnout was in the Iowa caucus, which was held during winter break for the universities. The timing of the caucus during college vacation was something that I remember the media mentioning might doom Obama there.

Nym, in general, what time of the year to people graduate from college?

May of course. Which is why I said a lot, as opposed to most. :)

Though I'd wager that the gap between May and December graduations is less than it once was as the percentage of students who take say 4 and a half years to graduate as opposed to 4 has probably gone up a bit through the years.

Would be interesting to see if youth turnout dropped significantly as a percentage of the electorate in the May and June primaries vs. the earlier ones as a way of testing your hypothesis.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 18, 2008, 12:11:03 AM
It's a good thing for Republicans that people who graduate college and earn B. A.s are too stupid to know how to re-register.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Keystone Phil on October 18, 2008, 12:21:54 AM
It's a good thing for Republicans that people who graduate college and earn B. A.s are too stupid to know how to re-register.

The point is that many people don't bother/become "too busy" to remember!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 18, 2008, 12:27:39 AM
The young showed up in the primaries. Why would they suddenly stop?

One obvious reason is living in a different city.  Perhaps 20% graduated and moved on.

Do you lose your right to vote when you graduate?

You do tend to lose your residence.  In the US, you have to re-register at the new address.

A lot of them would've had the same problem in the primaries, though.

Heck, look at how high the youth turnout was in the Iowa caucus, which was held during winter break for the universities. The timing of the caucus during college vacation was something that I remember the media mentioning might doom Obama there.

Nym, in general, what time of the year to people graduate from college?

May of course. Which is why I said a lot, as opposed to most. :)

Though I'd wager that the gap between May and December graduations is less than it once was as the percentage of students who take say 4 and a half years to graduate as opposed to 4 has probably gone up a bit through the years.

Would be interesting to see if youth turnout dropped significantly as a percentage of the electorate in the May and June primaries vs. the earlier ones as a way of testing your hypothesis.

That's why I said 20%, but some are June.

It's a good thing for Republicans that people who graduate college and earn B. A.s are too stupid to know how to re-register.

Many simply forget or move after the registration deadline.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 18, 2008, 12:33:10 AM
I'd bet any sum of money that does not equal 20% of Obama's young primary voters.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 18, 2008, 12:02:29 PM
I'd bet any sum of money that does not equal 20% of Obama's young primary voters.

I'll bet 20% of Obama's young (18-22) primary voters are not in the same precinct that were in last time.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 18, 2008, 12:03:57 PM
Obama: 50 (nc)
McCain: 42 (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 18, 2008, 12:05:30 PM
I'd bet any sum of money that does not equal 20% of Obama's young primary voters.

I'll bet 20% of Obama's young (18-22) primary voters are not in the same precinct that were in last time.

That's retarded.  20% of his primary voters have not switched apartments since summer, that's a bet you would be certain to lose.  Anyway, it's impossible to convince J.J. anything ever, so let's just go back to Gallup.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on October 18, 2008, 12:06:01 PM

:)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 18, 2008, 12:07:13 PM
Gallup
RV’s
Obama 50%(nc)
McCain 42%(-1)

LV’s Trad.
Obama 49%(nc)
McCain 47%(nc)

LV’s Expanded
Obama 51%(nc)
McCain 45%(nc

No change the past three days among the likely voter polls.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 18, 2008, 12:07:32 PM
Did Gallup release numbers from the other models today?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 18, 2008, 12:08:11 PM
Gallup
RV’s
Obama 50%(nc)
McCain 42%(-1)

LV’s Trad.
Obama 49%(nc)
McCain 47%(nc)

LV’s Expanded
Obama 51%(nc)
McCain 45%(nc

No change the past three days among the likely voter polls.

The Gallup website has expanded at -1,+1 for an Obama 4% lead


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 18, 2008, 12:11:49 PM
Gallup
RV’s
Obama 50%(nc)
McCain 42%(-1)

LV’s Trad.
Obama 49%(nc)
McCain 47%(nc)

LV’s Expanded
Obama 51%(nc)
McCain 45%(nc

No change the past three days among the likely voter polls.

The Gallup website has expanded at -1,+1 for an Obama 4% lead

I still see it as 51-45. Hmm

EDIT- Nevermind there it is 50-46. Good news for MAC.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: pepper11 on October 18, 2008, 12:13:22 PM
I do not yet see any numbers posted on Gallup today. Where are you getting this?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 18, 2008, 12:15:13 PM
I'd bet any sum of money that does not equal 20% of Obama's young primary voters.

I'll bet 20% of Obama's young (18-22) primary voters are not in the same precinct that were in last time.

That's retarded.  20% of his primary voters have not switched apartments since summer, that's a bet you would be certain to lose.  Anyway, it's impossible to convince J.J. anything ever, so let's just go back to Gallup.


I didn't say 20% of his primary voters, I said 20% of his young primary voters.  

There is no change in the likely voters for Gallup, but I'm not seeing the numbers on the website either.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 18, 2008, 12:17:10 PM
Go to Gallup.com and look at the top under Gallup Daily. It shows all three polls.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: pepper11 on October 18, 2008, 12:20:08 PM
Got it. Weird that they didn't update it as they normally do.

Good news for McCain, especially since they noted in Wednesday's update that Tuesday (the day that fell off) was a very good sample for McCain. This one must have been even better.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 18, 2008, 12:21:04 PM
Go to Gallup.com and look at the top under Gallup Daily. It shows all three polls.

It's still not up.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on October 18, 2008, 12:23:12 PM
It's not good for McCain, since now resgistered is even worse.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: pepper11 on October 18, 2008, 12:23:12 PM
Their regular update isn't posted for some reason, only the numbers as Rowan described.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 18, 2008, 12:28:33 PM
It's not good for McCain, since now resgistered is even worse.

You're a pessimistic fool. RV's MEAN NOTHING. Likely voters polls are the only ones that matter genius.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on October 18, 2008, 12:29:58 PM
If you haven't noticed, I'm usually not pessimistic.

I now LVs are usually more important, but we don't know who the LVs are.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: pepper11 on October 18, 2008, 12:31:03 PM
When a know pro-McCain sample falls off and McCain gains 2 points among LVs, its not bad news.  Might now be ideal, but it sure points to at least a decent McCain sample. Plus, an O+3 average among LVs is the best its been thus far.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 18, 2008, 12:33:19 PM
If you haven't noticed, I'm usually not pessimistic.

I now LVs are usually more important, but we don't know who the LVs are.

Which is why Gallup covers both bases. The expanded is the super high unprecedented turnout of blacks, youth etc. The traditional is the normal voters. Having both of those within 4 points is very good news.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 18, 2008, 12:36:14 PM
Even if 20% of Obama's young primary voters have changed residences since then, it's obvious that not every single one has not re-registered, or even that a majority haven't. So Obama has not lost 20% of his young voters.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on October 18, 2008, 12:38:44 PM
If you haven't noticed, I'm usually not pessimistic.

I now LVs are usually more important, but we don't know who the LVs are.

Which is why Gallup covers both bases. The expanded is the super high unprecedented turnout of blacks, youth etc. The traditional is the normal voters. Having both of those within 4 points is very good news.

I know, but they aren't doing a very good job, if even the expanded is far more pro-McCain.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 18, 2008, 01:53:30 PM
Even if 20% of Obama's young primary voters have changed residences since then, it's obvious that not every single one has not re-registered, or even that a majority haven't. So Obama has not lost 20% of his young voters.

BRTD, where did I say that there would be a 20% drop from the primaries.  I didn't.  I said that there could be a reduction, and that one reason is probably 20% have moved.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 18, 2008, 02:57:22 PM
This is starting to get too close for comfort again, at least in the national tracking polls. It's nice to know that a lot of people have voted already at least though.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on October 18, 2008, 03:17:18 PM
This is starting to get too close for comfort again, at least in the national tracking polls. It's nice to know that a lot of people have voted already at least though.

Right, we don't need them changing their minds and voting McCain.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 18, 2008, 03:59:32 PM
This is starting to get too close for comfort again, at least in the national tracking polls. It's nice to know that a lot of people have voted already at least though.

Right, we don't need them changing their minds and voting McCain.

Keep looking for a trend.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 18, 2008, 04:11:25 PM
This is starting to get too close for comfort again, at least in the national tracking polls.

don't worry, why would independents break for McCain after how erractic his campaign has been? 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on October 18, 2008, 04:14:09 PM
This is starting to get too close for comfort again, at least in the national tracking polls. It's nice to know that a lot of people have voted already at least though.

Right, we don't need them changing their minds and voting McCain.

Keep looking for a trend.

Huh? I don't get what you mean.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: afleitch on October 18, 2008, 04:16:41 PM
This is starting to get too close for comfort again, at least in the national tracking polls.

don't worry, why would independents break for McCain after how erractic his campaign has been? 

I tend to hold to that. The race has seen, since Obama secured the nomination, Obama lead in the polls generally (minus the GOP convention bounce). A 5 point lead is actually pretty good when you look at the last two elections; even further back if you exclude the strong third party elections of '92 and '96. Besides with early voting, why would someone who had done so respond to the question 'who are you going to vote for'? Even if they did they might actually be lying. (see the UK exit poll of 1992)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on October 18, 2008, 04:28:11 PM
This is starting to get too close for comfort again, at least in the national tracking polls.

don't worry, why would independents break for McCain after how erractic his campaign has been? 

Because they like him or his policies better?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 18, 2008, 11:01:50 PM
Even if 20% of Obama's young primary voters have changed residences since then, it's obvious that not every single one has not re-registered, or even that a majority haven't. So Obama has not lost 20% of his young voters.

BRTD, where did I say that there would be a 20% drop from the primaries.  I didn't.  I said that there could be a reduction, and that one reason is probably 20% have moved.

Here's the argument in a nutshell:

J. J. (and others) says the traditional voter model is more accurate since youth never vote.
Lief points out there was a huge surge of turnout in the primaries.
J. J. argues some of those have moved and gives the 20% estimate.
Many point out anyone graduating college isn't so dumb they don't know how to re-register.
The other arguments that come that "some" have not, blah blah blah.

While probably a factor in the end equals a very small one and not alone enough reason to argue that there will be no increase in youth turnout after 2004 whatsoever (which is the basis of arguing the traditional model is the correct one.) It also ignores other factors such as same-day registration states, people registered since the primaries, people too young to vote in the primaries now 18, etc. Of course J. J. is a big fan of this type of grasping at straws (see Mormons in Colorado.) so it's hardly a surprise, but the argument that the young voters will never show up no matter what happens in primaries needs to be a bit bigger than this little nitpick.

BTW I'm one of the "20%" if we accept this figure as correct as I have moved since February, and I have re-registered, even though I don't have to since I live in a same day registration state.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 18, 2008, 11:34:08 PM
Even if 20% of Obama's young primary voters have changed residences since then, it's obvious that not every single one has not re-registered, or even that a majority haven't. So Obama has not lost 20% of his young voters.

BRTD, where did I say that there would be a 20% drop from the primaries.  I didn't.  I said that there could be a reduction, and that one reason is probably 20% have moved.

Here's the argument in a nutshell:

J. J. (and others) says the traditional voter model is more accurate since youth never vote.
Lief points out there was a huge surge of turnout in the primaries.
J. J. argues some of those have moved and gives the 20% estimate.
Many point out anyone graduating college isn't so dumb they don't know how to re-register.
The other arguments that come that "some" have not, blah blah blah.

While probably a factor in the end equals a very small one and not alone enough reason to argue that there will be no increase in youth turnout after 2004 whatsoever (which is the basis of arguing the traditional model is the correct one.) It also ignores other factors such as same-day registration states, people registered since the primaries, people too young to vote in the primaries now 18, etc. Of course J. J. is a big fan of this type of grasping at straws (see Mormons in Colorado.) so it's hardly a surprise, but the argument that the young voters will never show up no matter what happens in primaries needs to be a bit bigger than this little nitpick.

BTW I'm one of the "20%" if we accept this figure as correct as I have moved since February, and I have re-registered, even though I don't have to since I live in a same day registration state.

BRTD, you are wrong in the summary.  I'm saying that there has been a low traditional youth turnout, and some of that will have an effect.  It's more structural.

The huge registration in the the one state I've looked at, PA, was before the primary.  There has a gain, but not a lot:

Latest figures (September 29):

8.548.580 registered voters, of which

4.357.663 are Democrats (50.98%)
3.207.728 are Republicans (37.52%)
983.189 are Ind. or from other parties (11.50%)

Compared with the 2008 primary (April 17):

8.328.123 registered voters, of which

4.200.109 are Democrats (50.43%)
3.186.057 are Republicans (38.26%)
941.957 are Ind. or from other parties (11.31%)


In PA, about 157.000 new Democrats have been registered.

Here are the numbers from 2006.


Compared with November 2006:

8.182.876 registered voters, of which

3.900.685 are Democrats (47.67%)
3.300.894 are Republicans (40.34%)
981.297 are Ind. or from other parties (11.99%)


Most of the "new" Democrats, about 300,000 came in prior to the primary, or a 2.76 percentage point gain to a 0.55 percentage point gain after the primary.

Now, you've posted on Tender Branson's thread, so you must have seen this.




Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 19, 2008, 08:35:01 AM
This is starting to get too close for comfort again, at least in the national tracking polls. It's nice to know that a lot of people have voted already at least though.

Right, we don't need them changing their minds and voting McCain.

Keep looking for a trend.

Huh? I don't get what you mean.

I'm looking for movement in the polls, and as of Friday, I was not seeing any movement.  Keep watch in for movement (today's Rasmussen might be some movement for Obama).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on October 19, 2008, 12:03:31 PM
Sunday - October 19

RV:

Obama: 52 (+2)
McCain: 42 (nc)

LV (Expanded):

Obama: 51 (+1)
McCain: 44 (-2)

LV (Traditional):

Obama: 49 (nc)
McCain: 46 (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Meeker on October 19, 2008, 12:05:38 PM
:)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 19, 2008, 12:07:13 PM
:(


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wall St. Wiz on October 19, 2008, 12:18:54 PM
Welp..that's a kick to the nuts


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 19, 2008, 12:23:42 PM
I think the race has settled into something like Obama +5-7. We're going to see a little movement around the edges in the next couple days, but unless something big happens, it'll all just be float within the MoE.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 19, 2008, 12:28:28 PM
Sunday - October 19

RV:

Obama: 52 (+2)
McCain: 42 (nc)

LV (Expanded):

Obama: 51 (+1)
McCain: 44 (-2)

LV (Traditional):

Obama: 49 (nc)
McCain: 46 (-1)

Some of it might be the weekend, but I'd a good +5 for Obama.  Tending in Obama's direction.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: freedomburns on October 19, 2008, 12:54:33 PM
OH YEAH BABY!!  HELLLLLOOO PRESIDENT OBAMA!!

Wow, Colin Powell just made me cry.  What an incredible endorsement!



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 19, 2008, 01:24:11 PM
Damn, my boy must have had a hell of a day here. Great to see.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 19, 2008, 01:31:44 PM
Damn, my boy must have had a hell of a day here. Great to see.

Ut oh you said "boy." RACIST!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on October 19, 2008, 02:53:13 PM
Problem is once he's elected and he destroys the economy and allows Russia to run over Eastern Europe (it would be the perfect time to do it), people will be still praising him.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 19, 2008, 07:15:16 PM

yeah, sure seems that way


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: exopolitician on October 20, 2008, 02:09:16 AM
Problem is once he's elected and he destroys the economy and allows Russia to run over Eastern Europe (it would be the perfect time to do it), people will be still praising him.

You are so ridiculous.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on October 20, 2008, 08:11:12 AM
Problem is once he's elected and he destroys the economy and allows Russia to run over Eastern Europe (it would be the perfect time to do it), people will be still praising him.

What is with Republicans this year... was there some weird space-time continum issue that sent them back to 1980.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 20, 2008, 09:36:13 AM
Problem is once he's elected and he destroys the economy and allows Russia to run over Eastern Europe (it would be the perfect time to do it), people will be still praising him.

What is with Republicans this year... was there some weird space-time continum issue that sent them back to 1980.

I think you might have to back for more years to find the analogy.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reaganfan on October 20, 2008, 09:39:01 AM
Problem is once he's elected and he destroys the economy and allows Russia to run over Eastern Europe (it would be the perfect time to do it), people will be still praising him.

What is with Republicans this year... was there some weird space-time continum issue that sent them back to 1980.

Back to the 80s? What are you talking about?
()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 20, 2008, 10:22:42 AM
Problem is once he's elected and he destroys the economy and allows Russia to run over Eastern Europe (it would be the perfect time to do it), people will be still praising him.

What is with Republicans this year... was there some weird space-time continum issue that sent them back to 1980.

Back to the 80s? What are you talking about?
()

The Terminator holding a copy of Back to the Future?.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 20, 2008, 10:41:52 AM
Problem is once he's elected and he destroys the economy and allows Russia to run over Eastern Europe (it would be the perfect time to do it), people will be still praising him.

What is with Republicans this year... was there some weird space-time continum issue that sent them back to 1980.

Back to the 80s? What are you talking about?
()

There was no Super Nintendo is the 80s, fella.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MODU on October 20, 2008, 10:46:11 AM
Problem is once he's elected and he destroys the economy and allows Russia to run over Eastern Europe (it would be the perfect time to do it), people will be still praising him.

What is with Republicans this year... was there some weird space-time continum issue that sent them back to 1980.

Back to the 80s? What are you talking about?
()

The Terminator holding a copy of Back to the Future?.

No, silly rabbit!  Those are Aviators.  He's obviously going for the Top Gun look.  hahaha


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on October 20, 2008, 10:47:37 AM
Super Mario World was from 1991, dipstick.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 20, 2008, 10:51:38 AM

It looked like a video tape to me.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 20, 2008, 12:03:48 PM
Gallup
RV's
Obama 52%(nc)
McCain 41%(-1)

LV's Trad
Obama 50%(+1)
McCain 45%(-1)

LV's Expanded
Obama 52%(+1)
McCain 43%(-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on October 20, 2008, 12:08:47 PM
Gallup is sometimes slow to catch on, but who knows.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: BlueSwan on October 20, 2008, 12:08:55 PM
So Obamas Gallup numbers are going up and up, and almost everywhere else they're going down. What to make of this?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 20, 2008, 12:09:10 PM
Good stuff.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 20, 2008, 12:10:29 PM
Weekend bounce.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on October 20, 2008, 12:12:07 PM
So Obamas Gallup numbers are going up and up, and almost everywhere else they're going down. What to make of this?

Like I just said, I have noticed that Gallup sometimes seems to lag behind a little.

I could be wrong, though. Gallup could even be right.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 20, 2008, 12:13:07 PM
Hells yeah!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Meeker on October 20, 2008, 12:13:46 PM
Outstanding.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 20, 2008, 12:14:24 PM
So Obamas Gallup numbers are going up and up, and almost everywhere else they're going down. What to make of this?
Like I just said, I have noticed that Gallup sometimes seems to lag behind a little.
That doesn't make any sense at all. "Oh, you're a pollster with Gallup? Let me tell you who I supported three days ago."


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ill ind on October 20, 2008, 12:20:57 PM
  The trackers have been pretty steady around the 4 to 5% area for several days now.  When one goes up for Obama, another goes down.  To me it looks like the race is pretty stable right now.  I'm going on the record and predicting an Obama 52%-48% victory in 2 weeks.

Ill Ind

From the state of Illinois--definitely not one of the 'pro-America' parts of America :->




Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on October 20, 2008, 12:25:28 PM
So Obamas Gallup numbers are going up and up, and almost everywhere else they're going down. What to make of this?
Like I just said, I have noticed that Gallup sometimes seems to lag behind a little.
That doesn't make any sense at all. "Oh, you're a pollster with Gallup? Let me tell you who I supported three days ago."

Mmm.  This is definitely my least favorite new poll-apologist explanation.

It's true that some pollsters are more prone to swings, that that relates to composition model.  The idea that a pollster could get a "laggy" sample is kind of hard to fathom.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: fezzyfestoon on October 20, 2008, 12:39:46 PM
Here's the graph of both Gallup and Rasmussen I've been keeping since June with a 10-day moving average, for those interested.  The thick lines are the averages, so ignore the part going past the thin lines, which are the actual poll numbers.

()

Somebody's wrong.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ?????????? on October 20, 2008, 12:40:44 PM
Yep, McCain is closing the gap, as expected.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Gustaf on October 20, 2008, 12:43:05 PM
So Obamas Gallup numbers are going up and up, and almost everywhere else they're going down. What to make of this?
Like I just said, I have noticed that Gallup sometimes seems to lag behind a little.
That doesn't make any sense at all. "Oh, you're a pollster with Gallup? Let me tell you who I supported three days ago."

Mmm.  This is definitely my least favorite new poll-apologist explanation.

It's true that some pollsters are more prone to swings, that that relates to composition model.  The idea that a pollster could get a "laggy" sample is kind of hard to fathom.

Sam claims, and I think I have seen evidence of that myself too, that state polls lag behind national ones. That would be equally strange wouldn't it?

Anyway, it could be fathomed if they're a) lying a little bit about when they conduct their interviews or b) do it at different times of the day than other pollsters.

But it's probably just some kind of noise/coincidence, etc. Maybe even the famed weekend-bounce, who knows? ;)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on October 20, 2008, 12:47:22 PM
Sam claims, and I think I have seen evidence of that myself too, that state polls lag behind national ones. That would be equally strange wouldn't it?

Anyway, it could be fathomed if they're a) lying a little bit about when they conduct their interviews or b) do it at different times of the day than other pollsters.

But it's probably just some kind of noise/coincidence, etc. Maybe even the famed weekend-bounce, who knows? ;)

I really think it's that state polls often have a few days of delayed release, so it seems like there is such a delay.  It's seriously the only semi-plausible explanation, unless people magically sense it's a state-level poll and decide to report their opinion from a few days ago.

I think that situation is a little different from a weekend bounce, which is a plausible idea but is probably eaten by noise to a degree.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on October 20, 2008, 01:33:29 PM
Problem is once he's elected and he destroys the economy and allows Russia to run over Eastern Europe (it would be the perfect time to do it), people will be still praising him.

Just to comment on this -- not a far-off statement, if by "Eastern Europe" we're talking about Ukraine, Belarus, and the Caucasus, and to a lesser extent the Baltics.

Run over politically, that is.  If Canada or Mexico were as active in our politics as Russia is in its neighbors, many of our citizens would be clamoring for war.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: freedomburns on October 20, 2008, 02:32:41 PM
The race is widening, not tightening.  The polls are looking good.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 20, 2008, 03:52:29 PM
The race is widening, not tightening.  The polls are looking good.

Actually the RCP measure shows the race tightening, but not by much.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: freedomburns on October 20, 2008, 04:19:41 PM
The race is widening, not tightening.  The polls are looking good.

Actually the RCP measure shows the race tightening, but not by much.

How do you figure that when it shows a 5.0 lead for Obama yesterday, and a 5.3 lead for him today?  Hmmm?? 

As usual, you are wrong.  I will assume that you are simply ignorant/poorly informed here, and not intentionally lying so as to benefit your political leanings.  Either way, you suck!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on October 20, 2008, 05:02:02 PM
Gallup
RV's
Obama 52%(nc)
McCain 41%(-1)

LV's Trad
Obama 50%(+1)
McCain 45%(-1)

LV's Expanded
Obama 52%(+1)
McCain 43%(-1)

GALLUP SHOCK: OBAMA UP 5


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 20, 2008, 06:13:05 PM
I wonder if anyone would care to explain this oddity within Gallup today...

Registered Voters - 2,774 interviews
Likely Voters (Expanded) - 2,271 interviews
Likely Voters (Traditional) - 2,340 interviews

You know what this makes Sam Spade think...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 20, 2008, 07:04:49 PM
I wonder if anyone would care to explain this oddity within Gallup today...

Registered Voters - 2,774 interviews
Likely Voters (Expanded) - 2,271 interviews
Likely Voters (Traditional) - 2,340 interviews

You know what this makes Sam Spade think...

Since I don't focus on sample size, what does it make you think?

The race is widening, not tightening.  The polls are looking good.

Actually the RCP measure shows the race tightening, but not by much.

How do you figure that when it shows a 5.0 lead for Obama yesterday, and a 5.3 lead for him today?  Hmmm?? 

As usual, you are wrong.  I will assume that you are simply ignorant/poorly informed here, and not intentionally lying so as to benefit your political leanings.  Either way, you suck!

The RCP composite is what I was referring to.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 20, 2008, 07:05:32 PM
I wonder if anyone would care to explain this oddity within Gallup today...

Registered Voters - 2,774 interviews
Likely Voters (Expanded) - 2,271 interviews
Likely Voters (Traditional) - 2,340 interviews

You know what this makes Sam Spade think...
No, we don't Sam. Please enlighten us. ::)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on October 20, 2008, 07:06:55 PM
I wonder if anyone would care to explain this oddity within Gallup today...

Registered Voters - 2,774 interviews
Likely Voters (Expanded) - 2,271 interviews
Likely Voters (Traditional) - 2,340 interviews

You know what this makes Sam Spade think...

Since I don't focus on sample size, what does it make you think?

It's not really so much sample size overall, as the fact that the traditional LV model is picking up more than the expanded model, which...I don't understand, personally, at all.  I must have been assuming Gallup was doing it differently than they are.

I have no idea what Sam is thinking, unless it's "wtf?".


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: freedomburns on October 20, 2008, 07:13:21 PM
Quote

The RCP composite is what I was referring to.

Yeah, me too.  And it just went up more for Obama as they added in some polls that came out today.

Now it is up to 5.8 points up for Obama.  This is definitely trending towards Obama then, and away from a race that is tightening.  This race is widening now.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

Is there some other page that you are looking at?  Because from what I see there, you seem to be even wronger than before.

fb


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on October 20, 2008, 07:14:00 PM
The race is widening, not tightening.  The polls are looking good.

Actually the RCP measure shows the race tightening, but not by much.

How do you figure that when it shows a 5.0 lead for Obama yesterday, and a 5.3 lead for him today?  Hmmm?? 

As usual, you are wrong.  I will assume that you are simply ignorant/poorly informed here, and not intentionally lying so as to benefit your political leanings.  Either way, you suck!

Shhhh.  You're becoming a troll.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 20, 2008, 07:17:26 PM
Quote

The RCP composite is what I was referring to.

Yeah, me too.  And it just went up more for Obama as they added in some polls that came out today.

Now it is up to 5.8 points up for Obama.  This is definitely trending towards Obama then, and away from a race that is tightening.  This race is widening now.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

Is there some other page that you are looking at?  Because from what I see there, you seem to be even wronger than before.

fb

This one.

Diageo Hotline Poll - 10/20

Obama 47% (-1)
McCain 42% (+1)

GW Battleground - 10/20

Obama 49% (nc)
McCain 45% (nc)

RCP has its closest margin in weeks - 4.8 Obama.


How do you figure that when it shows a 5.0 lead for Obama yesterday, and a 5.3 lead for him today?  Hmmm?? 

As usual, you are wrong.  I will assume that you are simply ignorant/poorly informed here, and not intentionally lying so as to benefit your political leanings.  Either way, you suck!

Shhhh.  You're becoming a troll.

Becoming?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on October 20, 2008, 07:17:53 PM
The race is widening, not tightening.  The polls are looking good.

Actually the RCP measure shows the race tightening, but not by much.

How do you figure that when it shows a 5.0 lead for Obama yesterday, and a 5.3 lead for him today?  Hmmm?? 

As usual, you are wrong.  I will assume that you are simply ignorant/poorly informed here, and not intentionally lying so as to benefit your political leanings.  Either way, you suck!

Shhhh.  You're becoming a troll.

He's always been a troll, but the troll is right.

It's also now +5.8.  Somehow I'm trusting realclearpolitics.com more on the realclearpolitics.com average than something Peper11 posted 10 hours ago (call me zany, call me nuts.)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 20, 2008, 07:52:41 PM
The race is widening, not tightening.  The polls are looking good.

Actually the RCP measure shows the race tightening, but not by much.

How do you figure that when it shows a 5.0 lead for Obama yesterday, and a 5.3 lead for him today?  Hmmm?? 

As usual, you are wrong.  I will assume that you are simply ignorant/poorly informed here, and not intentionally lying so as to benefit your political leanings.  Either way, you suck!

Shhhh.  You're becoming a troll.

He's always been a troll, but the troll is right.

It's also now +5.8.  Somehow I'm trusting realclearpolitics.com more on the realclearpolitics.com average than something Peper11 posted 10 hours ago (call me zany, call me nuts.)

It might have changed since I, or Pepper posted.  I'm see no clear trends at this point, however.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on October 20, 2008, 07:55:09 PM
I don't understand why you didn't check RCP for yourself before correcting someone, then.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 20, 2008, 07:59:39 PM
I don't understand why you didn't check RCP for yourself before correcting someone, then.

Because we've been discussing it right before I posted, it 4 hours ago.  At that point, there was a slight closing.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on October 20, 2008, 08:12:46 PM
He's always been a troll, but the troll is right.

It's also now +5.8.  Somehow I'm trusting realclearpolitics.com more on the realclearpolitics.com average than something Peper11 posted 10 hours ago (call me zany, call me nuts.)

I don't view the RCP average as inerrant truth.  The 7 day trend is towards closing, even if a few outlier polls are bumping the average up a bit in the short term.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on October 20, 2008, 08:16:23 PM
He's always been a troll, but the troll is right.

It's also now +5.8.  Somehow I'm trusting realclearpolitics.com more on the realclearpolitics.com average than something Peper11 posted 10 hours ago (call me zany, call me nuts.)

I don't view the RCP average as inerrant truth.

Muy excelente

The 7 day trend is towards closing, even if a few outlier polls are bumping the average up a bit in the short term.

I generally agree, but I don't see much evidence that it's anything beyond regression toward the mean, which is rarely linear.  And even if it were, McCain would be tied at best Election Day -- and would therefore almost certainly lose.  McCain needs something to happen.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 20, 2008, 08:17:34 PM
He's always been a troll, but the troll is right.

It's also now +5.8.  Somehow I'm trusting realclearpolitics.com more on the realclearpolitics.com average than something Peper11 posted 10 hours ago (call me zany, call me nuts.)

I don't view the RCP average as inerrant truth.  The 7 day trend is towards closing, even if a few outlier polls are bumping the average up a bit in the short term.

It was closing last week, but it stopped Friday or Saturday.  Some of it was pro-Obama sample dropping out of Gallup.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: freedomburns on October 21, 2008, 01:42:53 AM
Quote

I generally agree, but I don't see much evidence that it's anything beyond regression toward the mean, which is rarely linear.  And even if it were, McCain would be tied at best Election Day -- and would therefore almost certainly lose.  McCain needs something to happen.

Could you be bothered to refresh me on what regression to the mean means?  I seem to remember some of this from General Ed statistics at UCSC twenty years ago...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: muon2 on October 21, 2008, 08:19:27 AM
Quote

I generally agree, but I don't see much evidence that it's anything beyond regression toward the mean, which is rarely linear.  And even if it were, McCain would be tied at best Election Day -- and would therefore almost certainly lose.  McCain needs something to happen.

Could you be bothered to refresh me on what regression to the mean means?  I seem to remember some of this from General Ed statistics at UCSC twenty years ago...

Regression toward the mean is the effect of looking at outliers of a sample and finding them to be closer in the next measurement. This effect is strongest when the samples and the method to collect them are identical and dominated by statistical error. In that case one expects that an outlier is really just a statistical fluke and the next measurement will have high probability of landing closer to the mean.

This does not apply if there are systematic differences in the samples. It also should be used with caution in polls, since it really applies to individual measurements (like batting averages or exam scores), and is less applicable for a measurement which is itself a statistical sample of measurements.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on October 21, 2008, 10:24:23 AM
I generally agree, but I don't see much evidence that it's anything beyond regression toward the mean, which is rarely linear.  And even if it were, McCain would be tied at best Election Day -- and would therefore almost certainly lose.  McCain needs something to happen.

Agree, I just pile on top my conjecture that the party ID weighting is a bit to the left of where it should be.

I think it's a 2-4 point Obama advantage today, without a foreseeable prospective bump for Obama (barring grandma's passing (hope not) creating a sympathy vote).  It's a horserace, and I think McCain can even pull out an EV win on a -1 PV margin, given the states that are in play.

Not saying it's likely today, but it's not much of a stretch, either.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on October 21, 2008, 12:09:10 PM
10/21/08

RV

Obama 52 (nc)
McCain 41 (nc)

LV expanded

Obama 52 (nc)
McCain 42 (-1)

LV traditional

Obama 51 (+1)
McCain 44 (-1)



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on October 21, 2008, 12:18:19 PM
10/21/08

RV

Obama 52 (nc)
McCain 41 (nc)

LV expanded

Obama 52 (nc)
McCain 42 (-1)

LV traditional

Obama 51 (+1)
McCain 44 (-1)



GALLUP SHOCK: OBAMA UP 7


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on October 21, 2008, 12:21:50 PM
Hmm wonder why Rasmussen and Gallup disagree so much. Change in party ID?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 21, 2008, 12:31:37 PM
Awesome.

With numbers like this, he almost has to take a fall tomorrow though.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on October 21, 2008, 12:39:31 PM
Awesome.

With numbers like this, he almost has to take a fall tomorrow though.

agreed, though I think its just as likely that he picks up a point or two in Rass, so it will probably be a wash. Interesting that all the trackers post between a 1-11 point Obama lead. Some spread there.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 21, 2008, 03:35:18 PM
God, those numbers are delicious.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 21, 2008, 05:52:03 PM
How much I'd love for us to lose the election by just a couple points.  Doubt it's gonna happen, though.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: freedomburns on October 21, 2008, 05:55:05 PM
Quote

I generally agree, but I don't see much evidence that it's anything beyond regression toward the mean, which is rarely linear.  And even if it were, McCain would be tied at best Election Day -- and would therefore almost certainly lose.  McCain needs something to happen.

Could you be bothered to refresh me on what regression to the mean means?  I seem to remember some of this from General Ed statistics at UCSC twenty years ago...

Regression toward the mean is the effect of looking at outliers of a sample and finding them to be closer in the next measurement. This effect is strongest when the samples and the method to collect them are identical and dominated by statistical error. In that case one expects that an outlier is really just a statistical fluke and the next measurement will have high probability of landing closer to the mean.

This does not apply if there are systematic differences in the samples. It also should be used with caution in polls, since it really applies to individual measurements (like batting averages or exam scores), and is less applicable for a measurement which is itself a statistical sample of measurements.


Thanks, muon2!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 22, 2008, 12:04:03 PM
10/22/08

RV

Obama 51 (-1)
McCain 42 (+1)

LV expanded

Obama 52 (nc)
McCain 44 (+2)

LV traditional

Obama 50 (-1)
McCain 45 (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 22, 2008, 12:07:55 PM
I called it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reds4 on October 22, 2008, 12:09:43 PM
I wonder if this means McCain had a good night last night or just that a massive Obama night fell off.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 22, 2008, 12:45:09 PM
Probably weekend numbers dropping off.  Unless there are solid sustained movement across polls, Obama has it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 23, 2008, 12:04:22 PM
Gallup doing its usual midweek movement.

10/23/08

RV

Obama 50 (-1)
McCain 43 (+1)

LV expanded

Obama 51 (-1)
McCain 45 (+1)

LV traditional

Obama 50 (nc)
McCain 46 (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 23, 2008, 12:06:40 PM
lame


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 23, 2008, 12:07:36 PM
Interesting, and not repeated in Rasmussen.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 23, 2008, 12:11:38 PM

To beat out Hawk, this is an article from Gallup that I find most fascinating.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/111331/No-Increase-Proportion-First-Time-Voters.aspx

(conducted October 17-19 2008 among 2700 RV)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 23, 2008, 12:13:59 PM

To beat out Hawk, this is an article from Gallup that I find most fascinating.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/111331/No-Increase-Proportion-First-Time-Voters.aspx

(conducted October 17-19 2008 among 2700 RV)

J. J.'s Second Rule of Elections?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rococo4 on October 23, 2008, 12:14:28 PM
not a textbook year for polling i would say


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: BlueSwan on October 23, 2008, 01:04:23 PM
I've been disappointed with Gallup this election season. Way to much movement in the polls to be believable. I think Rasmussen is the one to go with this year - they've had the race pretty stable at 4-8 points for Obama for about a month now and that seems about right.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 23, 2008, 01:10:22 PM
I've been disappointed with Gallup this election season. Way to much movement in the polls to be believable. I think Rasmussen is the one to go with this year - they've had the race pretty stable at 4-8 points for Obama for about a month now and that seems about right.

Gallup's movement is part of its methodology.  You have to live with it...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 23, 2008, 03:56:57 PM

To beat out Hawk, this is an article from Gallup that I find most fascinating.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/111331/No-Increase-Proportion-First-Time-Voters.aspx

(conducted October 17-19 2008 among 2700 RV)

J. J.'s Second Rule of Elections?

Nobody cares dude


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 23, 2008, 04:29:26 PM

To beat out Hawk, this is an article from Gallup that I find most fascinating.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/111331/No-Increase-Proportion-First-Time-Voters.aspx

(conducted October 17-19 2008 among 2700 RV)

J. J.'s Second Rule of Elections?

Nobody cares dude

If they are correct, that might be very important, dud.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MR maverick on October 23, 2008, 09:09:23 PM
Gallup is saying no new voters?

I find that hard to believe considering if that was the case Hillary would campaigning for pres not Obama.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 23, 2008, 09:14:46 PM
Gallup is saying no new voters?

I find that hard to believe considering if that was the case Hillary would campaigning for pres not Obama.

They are saying the rate of new voters isn't substantially higher.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 23, 2008, 09:22:33 PM
Gallup is saying no new voters?

I find that hard to believe considering if that was the case Hillary would campaigning for pres not Obama.

They are saying the rate of new voters isn't substantially higher.

The basic difference is that new voters this year are probably Obama +20 when Bush and Kerry were essentially even among them.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 23, 2008, 09:36:43 PM
Gallup is saying no new voters?

I find that hard to believe considering if that was the case Hillary would campaigning for pres not Obama.

They are saying the rate of new voters isn't substantially higher.

The basic difference is that new voters this year are probably Obama +20 when Bush and Kerry were essentially even among them.

I would suspect that it wasn't even and probably more strongly Kerry.  In this case it's not a large group of voters that are really going to turn out and swing the election, if the article is correct.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 23, 2008, 09:38:49 PM
Gallup is saying no new voters?

I find that hard to believe considering if that was the case Hillary would campaigning for pres not Obama.

They are saying the rate of new voters isn't substantially higher.

The basic difference is that new voters this year are probably Obama +20 when Bush and Kerry were essentially even among them.

I would suspect that it wasn't even and probably more strongly Kerry.  In this case it's not a large group of voters that are really going to turn out and swing the election, if the article is correct.


Exits had it as Kerry +9.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 24, 2008, 12:06:02 PM
Gallup
RV’s
Obama 50%
McCain 42%(-1)

LV’s Expanded
Obama 51%(nc)
McCain 44%(-1)

LV’s Trad
Obama 50%(nc)
McCain 45%(-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on October 24, 2008, 12:08:48 PM
Gallup
RV’s
Obama 50%
McCain 42%(-1)

LV’s Expanded
Obama 51%(nc)
McCain 44%(-1)

LV’s Trad
Obama 50%(nc)
McCain 45%(-1)


Ye Olde Stable Pattern Returneth!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 24, 2008, 01:11:37 PM
Gallup
RV’s
Obama 50%
McCain 42%(-1)

LV’s Expanded
Obama 51%(nc)
McCain 44%(-1)

LV’s Trad
Obama 50%(nc)
McCain 45%(-1)


Ye Olde Stable Pattern Returneth!

Yeah, it seems like we are just seeing a bunch of meaningless bouncing around these days. Unless some megaevent occurs, the race is (probably) over.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on October 25, 2008, 12:03:03 PM
Saturday - October 25:

RV:

Obama 51% (+1)
McCain 42% (nc)

LV (Expanded):

Obama 51% (nc)
McCain 43% (-1)

LV (Traditional):

Obama 51% (+1)
McCain 44% (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Josh/Devilman88 on October 25, 2008, 12:04:01 PM
Them numbers are just great!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on October 25, 2008, 12:05:43 PM
it appears as if the LV models are starting to catch up with one another.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 25, 2008, 12:07:02 PM
Weekend bounce cometh.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wall St. Wiz on October 25, 2008, 12:49:27 PM
It just gets worse and worse, this is brutal.  I am going to get myself hammered on election night so I won't feel the pain that will be unfolding in front of my eyes.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 25, 2008, 03:03:24 PM

Not yet, those numbers are midweek and have generally trended to McCain, if they've trended to any candidate at all.

There numbers aver very good from Obama.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 25, 2008, 03:06:38 PM

Not yet, those numbers are midweek and have generally trended to McCain, if they've trended to any candidate at all.

There numbers aver very good from Obama.

Friday night has always been a good night for Obama polling. Friday, Saturday, Sunday polling are weekend polling days.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 25, 2008, 03:10:21 PM

Not yet, those numbers are midweek and have generally trended to McCain, if they've trended to any candidate at all.

There numbers aver very good from Obama.

Friday night has always been a good night for Obama polling. Friday, Saturday, Sunday polling are weekend polling days.

Saturday and Sunday, yes, but Fridays are neutral to lean McCain.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on October 25, 2008, 04:02:20 PM
It just gets worse and worse, this is brutal.  I am going to get myself hammered on election night so I won't feel the pain that will be unfolding in front of my eyes.

Can you keep that up for 4 years?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 25, 2008, 04:03:38 PM
It just gets worse and worse, this is brutal.  I am going to get myself hammered on election night so I won't feel the pain that will be unfolding in front of my eyes.

Can you keep that up for 4 years?


Try two.  Folks, what happens in 2010?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wall St. Wiz on October 25, 2008, 04:20:02 PM
It just gets worse and worse, this is brutal.  I am going to get myself hammered on election night so I won't feel the pain that will be unfolding in front of my eyes.

Can you keep that up for 4 years?


I won't have to.  The Republican party always does better as the minority party unfortunately.  In a way I am looking forward to the Democrats being in control of everything.  It's all their in their court now, they will get the blame or credit for everything.  The pressure is on them.  No more Bush to kick around.  I basically feel like there is no where to go from this point but up.  The expectations for Obama are huge, there is no way he can live up to them.

We'll have to rebuild the way we did after 1992, and the way the Dems did after 2004.  We are going to have to "find our voice again".  I have faith that the American people are not going to like this experiment with socialism that is coming. 



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Speed of Sound on October 25, 2008, 06:02:22 PM
It just gets worse and worse, this is brutal.  I am going to get myself hammered on election night so I won't feel the pain that will be unfolding in front of my eyes.

Can you keep that up for 4 years?


Try two.  Folks, what happens in 2010?
The deluge?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on October 25, 2008, 07:13:13 PM
It just gets worse and worse, this is brutal.  I am going to get myself hammered on election night so I won't feel the pain that will be unfolding in front of my eyes.

Can you keep that up for 4 years?


I won't have to.  The Republican party always does better as the minority party unfortunately.  In a way I am looking forward to the Democrats being in control of everything.  It's all their in their court now, they will get the blame or credit for everything.  The pressure is on them.  No more Bush to kick around.  I basically feel like there is no where to go from this point but up.  The expectations for Obama are huge, there is no way he can live up to them.

We'll have to rebuild the way we did after 1992, and the way the Dems did after 2004.  We are going to have to "find our voice again".  I have faith that the American people are not going to like this experiment with socialism that is coming. 

I think it'll take longer than 2 years.  It'll be easy to drag Bush's disintegrating corpse behind the bus for a few more years.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 25, 2008, 08:29:12 PM
It just gets worse and worse, this is brutal.  I am going to get myself hammered on election night so I won't feel the pain that will be unfolding in front of my eyes.

Can you keep that up for 4 years?


Try two.  Folks, what happens in 2010?
The deluge?

Try something that will happen regularly.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MODU on October 25, 2008, 08:31:53 PM
It just gets worse and worse, this is brutal.  I am going to get myself hammered on election night so I won't feel the pain that will be unfolding in front of my eyes.

Can you keep that up for 4 years?


Try two.  Folks, what happens in 2010?
The deluge?

Try something that will happen regularly.  :)

Bowel movements?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 25, 2008, 10:03:03 PM
It just gets worse and worse, this is brutal.  I am going to get myself hammered on election night so I won't feel the pain that will be unfolding in front of my eyes.

Can you keep that up for 4 years?


Try two.  Folks, what happens in 2010?
The deluge?

Try something that will happen regularly.  :)

Bowel movements?

Well, at you age once in ten years might be correct, but that's not the one I'm thinking of.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on October 26, 2008, 12:16:49 PM
Sunday - October 26:

RV:

Obama 51% (nc)
McCain 42% (nc)

LV (Expanded):

Obama 52% (+1)
McCain 43% (nc)

LV (Traditional):

Obama 50% (-1)
McCain 45% (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ty440 on October 26, 2008, 12:19:09 PM
LV (Traditional):

Obama 50% (-1)
McCain 45% (+1)




:)  Keep going baby 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reds4 on October 26, 2008, 12:20:13 PM
Weird that the traditional and expanded would move so differently on one day.. yesterday they were virtually the same..


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on October 26, 2008, 12:21:58 PM
Weird that the traditional and expanded would move so differently on one day.. yesterday they were virtually the same..

My guess is a lot of this is rounding stuff from bouncing around.  After all, 54.51%-44.49% changing to 54.49%-44.51% is going to look like a two-point shift.  It's not necessarily indicative that the underlying numbers changed that much.  Sometimes, a +/-1% can be more significant than a +/-2%.  Rounding's a whore.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 26, 2008, 12:49:19 PM
Bleh


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 26, 2008, 12:52:00 PM

Don't be so downcast, Ronnie, McCain has closed in on Obama's lead on the likely voter, traditional model. If you're feeling down take a look at Zogby

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 26, 2008, 12:59:22 PM

Don't be so downcast, Ronnie, McCain has closed in on Obama's lead on the likely voter, traditional model. If you're feeling down take a look at Zogby

Dave

Yippee, it's probably statistical noise.

In any case, I would be very content if McCain would be able to lose by a couple points, just so people like Gordon Smith and Norm Coleman might have a chance.  I have written off McCain actually winning this thing, though.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MR maverick on October 26, 2008, 09:48:18 PM

Don't be so downcast, Ronnie, McCain has closed in on Obama's lead on the likely voter, traditional model. If you're feeling down take a look at Zogby

Dave

Yippee, it's probably statistical noise.

In any case, I would be very content if McCain would be able to lose by a couple points, just so people like Gordon Smith and Norm Coleman might have a chance.  I have written off McCain actually winning this thing, though.

Why?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 26, 2008, 09:50:23 PM

Don't be so downcast, Ronnie, McCain has closed in on Obama's lead on the likely voter, traditional model. If you're feeling down take a look at Zogby

Dave

Yippee, it's probably statistical noise.

In any case, I would be very content if McCain would be able to lose by a couple points, just so people like Gordon Smith and Norm Coleman might have a chance.  I have written off McCain actually winning this thing, though.

Why?

Because McCain is sucking in polls, and I don't think he will be able to make up the margin in 8 days.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on October 27, 2008, 12:04:12 PM
10/27/08

RV

Obama 52 (+1)
McCain 42 (nc)

LV expanded

Obama 53 (+1)
McCain 43 (nc)

LV traditional

Obama 50 (nc)
McCain 45 (nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 27, 2008, 12:04:57 PM
Good. I was worried for a bit that the Rasmussen drop wasn't an outlier.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 27, 2008, 12:05:45 PM
nice


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on October 27, 2008, 12:11:59 PM
probably just the weekend bounce.  i'll let you know by thursday if this is real or not.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 27, 2008, 12:21:26 PM
probably just the weekend bounce.  i'll let you know by thursday if this is real or not.

No change it traditional, and Obama does tend to do a bit better on Gallup over weekends.  No great decline, however. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kalimantan on October 27, 2008, 01:33:28 PM
probably just the weekend bounce.  i'll let you know by thursday if this is real or not.

LOL. great snark!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on October 27, 2008, 08:45:45 PM
Interesting article posted on the Gallup website about how their likely voter models work:



Turnout in typical presidential elections is related to a voter's current interest in the election, self-reported intention to vote, and previous history of voting.

Based on these relationships, Gallup has in past elections successfully created a pool of likely voters (the "traditional likely voter" model) using data on an individual voter's values on these dimensions. The vote intentions of this pool of likely voters, measured in the final survey before an election, typically provide a more accurate representation of the final popular vote outcome than is accorded by the polled vote patterns of all registered voters. For example, in 2004, Gallup's final poll of registered voters before the election had John Kerry leading by 48% to 46%. Among likely voters, defined using Gallup's "traditional" likely voter model, George Bush was ahead by 49% to 47%, a margin quite close to the final popular vote outcome.

The voter turnout pattern in the 2008 presidential election may end up following exactly the same tendencies that have occurred in previous presidential elections. If so, the "traditional" likely voter model will provide the best estimate of the final popular vote.

By many accounts, however, turnout this year has the potential to follow somewhat different patterns. New voter registration is reported to be up significantly in a number of states, and news accounts discuss the evidence that the new registration is disproportionately Democratic. Gallup also has monitored significantly higher enthusiasm about this year's election among Democrats compared to Republicans. Given that Barack Obama is the first major-party black candidate in U.S. history, it would not be unexpected to see unusually high turnout among black voters, and there continues to be discussion of unusually high registration and turnout among young voters.

These considerations have led Gallup to develop a second likely voter model ("expanded model") that takes into account current vote intentions but does not incorporate past voting behavior. This model assumes there will be significant numbers of first time or infrequent voters in the final electorate pool, and that past voting history is less important as a predictor of voting.

Thus, at this point, Gallup is providing users of our data with several ways of modeling the electorate, taking into account different assumptions about turnout. The base registered voter model reports the current vote intentions of all registered voters -- the data Gallup has been tracking all year. The "traditional" model assumes that both past voting history and current voting intentions are important determinants of likelihood of voting. The "expanded" likely voter model assumes that current voting intentions are the important determinant of likelihood of voting, and that past voting history will not be the factor that it has in previous elections.

Gallup is monitoring a number of the elements that comprise the likely voter models in order to detect any historically unusual patterns that would suggest traditional assumptions about turnout may not apply this year. One key will be the effort to see if certain subgroups of the population, including young people and minorities, are disproportionately likely to report being registered to vote and disproportionately likely to report high levels of interest in the campaign, and self-reported intention to vote compared with previous years. This monitoring will provide the best empirical estimate of the turnout patterns that will occur on Election Day. The analyses of these indicators will be reported periodically at gallup.com.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on October 27, 2008, 08:52:23 PM
It is certianly odd that the "expanded" model has fewer voters than the "traditional" model. It obviously makes the term "expanded" a misnomer, but the only explanation I can gather is that if someone has voted very regularly in the past but says they are not enthusiastic about voting this year, they may be included in the traditional model but not in the expanded model. Gallup has ascertained there are more voters that fit this description than there are that have not voted in the past but say they are enthusiastic about voting this year--these folks would be included in the expanded model but perhaps not counted in the traditional model.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on October 28, 2008, 12:10:00 PM
Pretty substantial movement today (http://www.gallup.com/poll/111568/Gallup-Daily-Presidential-Race-Narrows-Slightly.aspx).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reds4 on October 28, 2008, 12:13:49 PM
Interesting


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 28, 2008, 12:15:09 PM
Pretty substantial movement today (http://www.gallup.com/poll/111568/Gallup-Daily-Presidential-Race-Narrows-Slightly.aspx).

Bradley Effect?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 28, 2008, 12:19:22 PM
Damn, must have been some insanely pro-McCain sample.

I wonder when the traditional model numbers become the Drudge headline...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on October 28, 2008, 12:21:52 PM
Damn, must have been some insanely pro-McCain sample.

Maybe that 2001 radio interview clip of Obama is hurting him some. I know it bothers me. I was close to finally going for Obama, but am for the moment now pulling back. Stay tuned. Hopefully Obama will say something about it reassuring, such as he's a lot more up to speed now, than then.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on October 28, 2008, 12:22:40 PM
Pretty substantial movement today (http://www.gallup.com/poll/111568/Gallup-Daily-Presidential-Race-Narrows-Slightly.aspx).

Bradley Effect?

The definition of that is something that is not picked up in polls no?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 28, 2008, 12:24:08 PM
Pretty substantial movement today (http://www.gallup.com/poll/111568/Gallup-Daily-Presidential-Race-Narrows-Slightly.aspx).

Bradley Effect?

The definition of that is something that is not picked up in polls no?

I'm guessing he was joking.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on October 28, 2008, 12:24:53 PM
Pretty substantial movement today (http://www.gallup.com/poll/111568/Gallup-Daily-Presidential-Race-Narrows-Slightly.aspx).

Bradley Effect?

The definition of that is something that is not picked up in polls no?

I'm guessing he was joking.

I fear I might get the reputation as the straight man on this forum.  :(


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 28, 2008, 12:26:40 PM
Tuesday - October 28:

RV:

Obama 50% (-2)
McCain 43% (+1)

LV (Expanded):

Obama 51% (-2)
McCain 44% (+1)

LV (Traditional):

Obama 49% (-1)
McCain 47% (+2)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 28, 2008, 12:33:44 PM
Pretty substantial movement today (http://www.gallup.com/poll/111568/Gallup-Daily-Presidential-Race-Narrows-Slightly.aspx).

Bradley Effect?

The definition of that is something that is not picked up in polls no?

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=86643.msg1788561#msg1788561


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 28, 2008, 12:40:07 PM
Must've picked up a 1-in-20 sample last night.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 28, 2008, 12:45:18 PM

Or Rasmussen was?  I want to see TIPP and the lesser polls.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: pepper11 on October 28, 2008, 12:48:03 PM
5-6 days ago Obama had just about his largest lead to date in the majority of the trackers.  Since then McCain has gained significant ground in 6 of the 8 trackers.  Data below.

Somehow, I would imagine that when I look at 538s regression tonight, it will magically show, yet again, that despite the polls showing otherwise, that the race is indeed flat.  

Ras: was O + 8, nowO + 5.                     McCain gains 3.
ABC/Post: was O + 11, now O + 7          McCain gains 4.
Zogby: was O + 12, now O + 4.              McCain gains 8
Kos: was O + 12, now O + 7.                  McCain gains 5.
IBD: was O + 6, now O + 3.                     McCain gains 3.
Gallup Trad: was O + 7, now O + 2        McCain gains 5

The sole exceptions are Battleground ang Hotline which show a stable race.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on October 28, 2008, 01:14:31 PM
this could be dramatically good news for McCain.  high weekend numbers remained for Obama.  I will let you know by Thursday if this is real.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 28, 2008, 01:19:33 PM
this could be dramatically good news for McCain.  high weekend numbers remained for Obama.  I will let you know by Thursday if this is real.

You are actually right, though you don't realize it. 

The was no movement in Rasmussen, so I'm somewhat skeptical.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on October 28, 2008, 01:26:24 PM
this could be dramatically good news for McCain.  high weekend numbers remained for Obama.  I will let you know by Thursday if this is real.

You are actually right, though you don't realize it. 

The was no movement in Rasmussen, so I'm somewhat skeptical.


To be fair, Ras went bonkers for McCain yesterday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on October 28, 2008, 01:46:36 PM
this could be dramatically good news for McCain.  high weekend numbers remained for Obama.  I will let you know by Thursday if this is real.

You are actually right, though you don't realize it. 

The was no movement in Rasmussen, so I'm somewhat skeptical.


And went back to an Obama +8 sample today.

To be fair, Ras went bonkers for McCain yesterday.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 28, 2008, 02:15:24 PM
Actually Iosif, Rasmussen didn't move in it's main numbers.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on October 28, 2008, 02:21:17 PM
Actually Iosif, Rasmussen didn't move in it's main numbers.

No, no it didn't. But an excellent Obama sample dropped off, therefore an equally excellent Obama sample had to come on to keep the numbers from changing.

I'm glad to be of help.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 28, 2008, 06:33:17 PM
And Drudge finally grabs the number.  Took them long enough!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 28, 2008, 06:33:39 PM
And Drudge finally grabs the number.  Took them long enough!

Well, what did you expect?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 28, 2008, 06:35:10 PM
And Drudge finally grabs the number.  Took them long enough!

Well, what did you expect?

Him to do it quicker!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on October 28, 2008, 07:00:12 PM
Well here is the McCain spin of the day, fed to Rich Lowry, who is glad Christopher Buckley resigned from NR:

"The McCain campaign says their internal polling still shows tightening, and their track shows them down three in the swing states. Fwiw..."


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 28, 2008, 08:03:13 PM
Well here is the McCain spin of the day, fed to Rich Lowry, who is glad Christopher Buckley resigned from NR:

"The McCain campaign says their internal polling still shows tightening, and their track shows them down three in the swing states. Fwiw..."

But what do they actually consider to be the "swing states" these days?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wall St. Wiz on October 28, 2008, 08:41:48 PM
Well here is the McCain spin of the day, fed to Rich Lowry, who is glad Christopher Buckley resigned from NR:

"The McCain campaign says their internal polling still shows tightening, and their track shows them down three in the swing states. Fwiw..."

I just heard Gingrich say the same thing, according to the internals McCain is gaining ground in the battleground states and is now within striking distance in all of them.

Not sure how to take that, as it implies that he is currently behind in all of them.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 28, 2008, 08:50:55 PM
And Drudge finally grabs the number.  Took them long enough!

Matt must be j**king off when numbers like these come along


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MR maverick on October 29, 2008, 12:24:18 AM
Which Model is the right one to go by for this election?  It appears like gallup is trying to have it 3 ways , so either way they was right about the election.

Expanded mode takes into account new voters and higher turnout right?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on October 29, 2008, 12:49:13 AM
Which Model is the right one to go by for this election?  It appears like gallup is trying to have it 3 ways , so either way they was right about the election.

Expanded mode takes into account new voters and higher turnout right?

Expanded takes into consideration only currently stated intentions about voting.

Traditional takes into consideration currently stated intentions and also past voting behavior.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MR maverick on October 29, 2008, 01:00:02 AM
Which one should be considered for this years election?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: memphis on October 29, 2008, 01:03:49 AM
Which one should be considered for this years election?

If we knew that, Gallup wouldn't bother posting the different models. Nobody knows who will turnout this year.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MR maverick on October 29, 2008, 01:17:22 AM
Which one should be considered for this years election?

If we knew that, Gallup wouldn't bother posting the different models. Nobody knows who will turnout this year.

Well we know that its not going to be lower then 2004.

Thats pretty much out of the question.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Gustaf on October 29, 2008, 09:33:46 AM
Personally, I suspect the traditional model will be closer to the truth than the expanded one. I tend to average the two in my head and then move it a point to towards the traditional one. Not really scientific, but whatever.

It does seem like McCain is doing a little bit better right now. It is what I used to expect but then gave up on when Obama surged earlier. Still doesn't really matter though - Obama's margin, once compared to the number of remaining days, is definitely big enough.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rococo4 on October 29, 2008, 09:41:23 AM
i know its been said, but i just want to reiterate how BS it is that gallup is doing 3 different numbers.  i cant believe they are being allowed to get away with it.  sure, turnout is hard to predict, but that is their job.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 29, 2008, 10:10:28 AM
i know its been said, but i just want to reiterate how BS it is that gallup is doing 3 different numbers.  i cant believe they are being allowed to get away with it.  sure, turnout is hard to predict, but that is their job.

Yeah I hate getting additional numbers that help me decide what movement in the race is looking like.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on October 29, 2008, 10:17:56 AM
i know its been said, but i just want to reiterate how BS it is that gallup is doing 3 different numbers.  i cant believe they are being allowed to get away with it.  sure, turnout is hard to predict, but that is their job.

I actually think its fair since this election, probably more that any other in a long time has such a capacity for an unpredictable turnout.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on October 29, 2008, 10:26:38 AM
i know its been said, but i just want to reiterate how BS it is that gallup is doing 3 different numbers.  i cant believe they are being allowed to get away with it.  sure, turnout is hard to predict, but that is their job.
I vehemently disagree.  People just assume polls are the gospel, or they assume the are junk.  We know neither is true.  They are actually doing a service for those paying attention by basically saying, all we can do is ask people who they are voting for and some other basic questions.  After that, we don't control what happens.  Some people will say they are voting and not vote.  Some people will vote for years and then not vote.  Some people will vote for the very first time this year.  Having 3 sets of numbers might help analyze what happens after the fact.

Ultimately it is OK that we don't know FOR SURE the state of the election every second (much as I'd like to know it); we'll all find out in 6 days.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 29, 2008, 10:30:07 AM
I'm resigned to the inevitability of Gallup being way too good for McCain later today. He will be President-elect this time next week, on that I'm absolutely 100% certain

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 29, 2008, 10:30:41 AM
Gallup better give me some good news today or I'm-a-gonna have to choke a bitch.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 29, 2008, 10:31:38 AM
I'm resigned to the inevitability of Gallup being way too good for McCain later today. He will be President-elect this time next week, on that I'm absolutely 100% certain

Dave

Knock it off.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MODU on October 29, 2008, 10:32:47 AM
I'm resigned to the inevitability of Gallup being way too good for McCain later today. He will be President-elect this time next week, on that I'm absolutely 100% certain

Dave

While I'm sure many would love to see that happen, I think it is premature to start crowning someone the winner.  Polling, especially in 2008, is as reliable as a used car from the classifieds.  


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on October 29, 2008, 10:39:36 AM
I'm resigned to the inevitability of Gallup being way too good for McCain later today. He will be President-elect this time next week, on that I'm absolutely 100% certain

Dave

While I'm sure many would love to see that happen, I think it is premature to start crowning someone the winner.  Polling, especially in 2008, is as reliable as a used car from the classifieds.  

Dave.... seriously, breathe.

I'm worried by the degree to which McCain is closing, and will be beyond horrfied if McCain/Palin actually manages to have won... but there is a lot of unpredictable elements, we simply don't know.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on October 29, 2008, 10:44:27 AM
i know its been said, but i just want to reiterate how BS it is that gallup is doing 3 different numbers.  i cant believe they are being allowed to get away with it.  sure, turnout is hard to predict, but that is their job.

It is intellectually honest.  I respect it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 29, 2008, 10:48:47 AM
I'm resigned to the inevitability of Gallup being way too good for McCain later today. He will be President-elect this time next week, on that I'm absolutely 100% certain

Dave

While I'm sure many would love to see that happen, I think it is premature to start crowning someone the winner.  Polling, especially in 2008, is as reliable as a used car from the classifieds.  

Dave.... seriously, breathe.

I'm worried by the degree to which McCain is closing, and will be beyond horrfied if McCain/Palin actually manages to have won... but there is a lot of unpredictable elements, we simply don't know.

Also to suggest McCain/Palin is more likely to win than not is still, at this point, pretty silly... let alone saying they have 100% chance of victory.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 29, 2008, 10:54:56 AM
I'm resigned to the inevitability of Gallup being way too good for McCain later today. He will be President-elect this time next week, on that I'm absolutely 100% certain

Dave

While I'm sure many would love to see that happen, I think it is premature to start crowning someone the winner.  Polling, especially in 2008, is as reliable as a used car from the classifieds.  

Dave.... seriously, breathe.

I'm worried by the degree to which McCain is closing, and will be beyond horrfied if McCain/Palin actually manages to have won... but there is a lot of unpredictable elements, we simply don't know.

Also to suggest McCain/Palin is more likely to win than not is still, at this point, pretty silly... let alone saying they have 100% chance of victory.

Lets just say a wave of fatalistic, pessimism has afflicted me. The pragmatic :), albeit liberal-leaning, Christian :) Democrat that is Sen. Obama is being smeared something atrociously >:(

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 29, 2008, 10:58:57 AM
Dave, don't get pessimistic yet.  When Obama slips under 50%, you should worry.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reaganfan on October 29, 2008, 11:00:34 AM
Dave, don't get pessimistic yet.  When Obama slips under 50%, you should worry.

That's beginning to happen...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 29, 2008, 11:11:08 AM
Dave, don't get pessimistic yet.  When Obama slips under 50%, you should worry.

I'd rather not be worrying at all. Competence is my litmus and I have way more confidence in the pragmatic :), albeit liberal-leaning, Christian Democratic Obama, on economic and quallity of life issues, who has little in common philosophically with George W Bush, than I do McCain, well who has much, unfortunately, in common with the presidential equivalent of a dogsh**t sandwich and a wretched record to boot!

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 29, 2008, 11:26:37 AM
Enough with "Christian Democrat" thing, Dave. You're like a broken record.

Personally, I'm still hoping he's a closet athiest/non-religious, but that's me.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 29, 2008, 11:29:06 AM
Enough with "Christian Democrat" thing, Dave. You're like a broken record.

That's exactly what Obama is on economic and quality of life issues

Quote
Personally, I'm still hoping he's a closet athiest/non-religious, but that's me.

On social issues, I'd say Obama is liberal-leaning

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 29, 2008, 11:42:20 AM
Enough with "Christian Democrat" thing, Dave. You're like a broken record.

That's exactly what Obama is on economic and quality of life issues

Quote
Personally, I'm still hoping he's a closet athiest/non-religious, but that's me.

On social issues, I'd say Obama is liberal-leaning

Dave

I think the point is you keep saying the same thing over and over and it's gotten almost as annoying as that "after you the deluge" stuff from J. J. Yes, we know why you support Obama and don't support McCain.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 29, 2008, 12:00:05 PM
Enough with "Christian Democrat" thing, Dave. You're like a broken record.

That's exactly what Obama is on economic and quality of life issues

Quote
Personally, I'm still hoping he's a closet athiest/non-religious, but that's me.

On social issues, I'd say Obama is liberal-leaning

Dave

I think the point is you keep saying the same thing over and over and it's gotten almost as annoying as that "after you the deluge" stuff from J. J. Yes, we know why you support Obama and don't support McCain.

I've just about had it with Obama being vilified and smeared by the Right and when I see McCain closing, it tells me that those tactics could be working :(

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Meeker on October 29, 2008, 12:03:36 PM
Wednesday, October 29th, 2008

RV
Obama: 51% (+1)
McCain: 42% (-1)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 51% (nc)
McCain: 44% (nc)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 49%
McCain: 46% (-1)


"Tightening", my ass...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on October 29, 2008, 12:05:00 PM

TMI.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 29, 2008, 12:06:22 PM
Wednesday, October 29th, 2008

RV
Obama: 51% (+1)
McCain: 42% (-1)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 51% (nc)
McCain: 44% (nc)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 49%
McCain: 46% (-1)


Tightening my ass...

Maybe Dave can take Bob Dylan's advice and take the rag away from his face now.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Meeker on October 29, 2008, 12:06:40 PM

I suppose a few punctuation marks might've been helpful.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 29, 2008, 12:19:56 PM
Wednesday, October 29th, 2008

RV
Obama: 51% (+1)
McCain: 42% (-1)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 51% (nc)
McCain: 44% (nc)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 49%
McCain: 46% (-1)


Tightening my ass...

Maybe Dave can take Bob Dylan's advice and take the rag away from his face now.

I'd be a lot more happier if those registered voters who give Obama a comfortable 9-point lead turned out and voted :)

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 29, 2008, 12:27:48 PM
Wednesday, October 29th, 2008

RV
Obama: 51% (+1)
McCain: 42% (-1)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 51% (nc)
McCain: 44% (nc)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 49%
McCain: 46% (-1)


for McCain to win, this is what the final Gallup poll would have to look like, IMO:

RV
Obama: 49%
McCain: 44%

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 49%
McCain: 46%

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 48%
McCain: 47%


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Meeker on October 29, 2008, 12:31:28 PM
Wednesday, October 29th, 2008

RV
Obama: 51% (+1)
McCain: 42% (-1)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 51% (nc)
McCain: 44% (nc)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 49%
McCain: 46% (-1)


for McCain to win, this is what the final Gallup poll would have to look like, IMO:

RV
Obama: 49%
McCain: 44%

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 49%
McCain: 46%

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 48%
McCain: 47%

At this point McCain would probably need to be ahead by at least 2 or 3 points in the traditional voter model to account for early voting.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 29, 2008, 12:33:50 PM
At this point McCain would probably need to be ahead by at least 2 or 3 points in the traditional voter model to account for early voting.

that brings up a question:  don't these polls query those who have already voted early?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 29, 2008, 12:35:42 PM
Phew! Good news.

I think all that's going on here is shaky Republicans finally going with McCain. As long as Obama can remain above 50 he should be fine.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 29, 2008, 01:10:25 PM
Guys, this exact same "tightening" happened in 2006. For the last week, the Republicans gained a little bit in the generic congressional ballot as well as in the competitive Senate races, and yet they still lost 30 house seats and 6 senate seats. As long as Obama stays above 50 and McCain stays stuck in the mid-40s, we're good.

Plus, the state polls still indicate a pretty solid Obama lead.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Meeker on October 29, 2008, 01:24:15 PM
At this point McCain would probably need to be ahead by at least 2 or 3 points in the traditional voter model to account for early voting.

that brings up a question:  don't these polls query those who have already voted early?

Good point. I had been subconsciously assuming they weren't when I made that statement, but they very well might be.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on October 29, 2008, 01:27:15 PM
At this point McCain would probably need to be ahead by at least 2 or 3 points in the traditional voter model to account for early voting.

that brings up a question:  don't these polls query those who have already voted early?

Good point. I had been subconsciously assuming they weren't when I made that statement, but they very well might be.

They are.  They're separated in Rasmussen, and are Obama +9.  The poll closeness comes from future likely voters, who are tied.  No reason for a poll to exclude early voters; they're automatically made LVs, I imagine.

I wonder if they skip the LV screen for those who claim to be AVs.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on October 29, 2008, 01:50:16 PM
Enough with "Christian Democrat" thing, Dave. You're like a broken record.

Personally, I'm still hoping he's a closet athiest/non-religious, but that's me.

If he came out and said he was an atheist, he might get my vote.

He would, of course, lose the election, however.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on October 29, 2008, 02:51:31 PM
At this point McCain would probably need to be ahead by at least 2 or 3 points in the traditional voter model to account for early voting.

that brings up a question:  don't these polls query those who have already voted early?

Good point. I had been subconsciously assuming they weren't when I made that statement, but they very well might be.

They are.  They're separated in Rasmussen, and are Obama +9.  The poll closeness comes from future likely voters, who are tied.  No reason for a poll to exclude early voters; they're automatically made LVs, I imagine.

I wonder if they skip the LV screen for those who claim to be AVs.

Of course, Rasmussen wasn't very good at screening early voters for the California primary, so who knows. I think McCain has to lead by a point or two on election day to win at this point. more in states like Virginia and Ohio which have early voting (although Ohio early voting has not seemed all that spectacular).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: exopolitician on October 29, 2008, 06:35:45 PM
Enough with "Christian Democrat" thing, Dave. You're like a broken record.

Personally, I'm still hoping he's a closet athiest/non-religious, but that's me.

If he came out and said he was an atheist, he might get my vote.

He would, of course, lose the election, however.

Shame.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on October 30, 2008, 12:08:55 PM
Thursday, October 30th, 2008

RV
Obama: 50% (-1)
McCain: 42% (nc)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 51% (nc)
McCain: 44% (nc)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 50% (+1)
McCain: 45% (-1)

()



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 30, 2008, 12:09:47 PM
Thursday, October 30th, 2008

RV
Obama: 50% (-1)
McCain: 42% (nc)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 51% (nc)
McCain: 44% (nc)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 50% (+1)
McCain: 45% (-1)

Awesome.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 30, 2008, 12:10:21 PM
Thursday, October 30th, 2008

RV
Obama: 50% (-1)
McCain: 42% (nc)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 51% (nc)
McCain: 44% (nc)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 50% (+1)
McCain: 45% (-1)

This should be troubling to McCain supporters.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on October 30, 2008, 12:13:14 PM
Thursday, October 30th, 2008

RV
Obama: 50% (-1)
McCain: 42% (nc)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 51% (nc)
McCain: 44% (nc)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 50% (+1)
McCain: 45% (-1)

This should be troubling to McCain supporters.

Uhh, it should?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on October 30, 2008, 12:14:13 PM
It is interesting that the traditional and expanded LV models are now merging. Is that by accident or design, as Gallup struggles to make a prediction on the actual turnout model as we get close to the wire?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on October 30, 2008, 12:14:50 PM
Thursday, October 30th, 2008

RV
Obama: 50% (-1)
McCain: 42% (nc)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 51% (nc)
McCain: 44% (nc)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 50% (+1)
McCain: 45% (-1)

()


because the weekend is not reflected in these numbers, McCain should be doing better.  Let's see what happens this weekend with the Obama bounce.  If Obama fails to extend his lead, then this would mean that something is wrong here and the race is still tight.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on October 30, 2008, 12:15:28 PM
It is interesting that the traditional and expanded LV models are now merging. Is that by accident or design, as Gallup struggles to make a prediction on the actual turnout model as we get close to the wire?

For some reason, the "traditional" turnout model was coming up with more likely voters than the "expanded" turnout model for a long time. That has now reversed and may help to explain the convergence.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sarnstrom on October 30, 2008, 12:16:48 PM
:) Looks great!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wiz in Wis on October 30, 2008, 12:17:16 PM
There appears to be a growing consensus among pollsters that Obama has about a 5-7 point solid lead. Gallup seems to be splitting the difference between the two...

So yes, this should trouble McCain supporters, because now Obama gets 50% virtually everywhere in the trackers


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on October 30, 2008, 12:17:35 PM
It is interesting that the traditional and expanded LV models are now merging. Is that by accident or design, as Gallup struggles to make a prediction on the actual turnout model as we get close to the wire?

For some reason, the "traditional" turnout model was coming up with more likely voters than the "expanded" turnout model for a long time. That has now reversed and may help to explain the convergence.

Or as more and more "unlikely" voters come out and vote early, perhaps Gallup adjusts its model or maybe it is the people who have already voted who are causing the convergence.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on October 30, 2008, 12:19:01 PM
It is interesting that the traditional and expanded LV models are now merging. Is that by accident or design, as Gallup struggles to make a prediction on the actual turnout model as we get close to the wire?

For some reason, the "traditional" turnout model was coming up with more likely voters than the "expanded" turnout model for a long time. That has now reversed and may help to explain the convergence.

How does an expanded model contract the number of voters?  That concept is just a bit too abstract for me.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reds4 on October 30, 2008, 12:19:41 PM
Interesting that Obama actually lost a point among registered but gained among traditional likely voters... agreed that this isn't good news for McCain... too late in the game to be pleased with being down 5 or 6.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 30, 2008, 12:20:10 PM
Thursday, October 30th, 2008

RV
Obama: 50% (-1)
McCain: 42% (nc)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 51% (nc)
McCain: 44% (nc)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 50% (+1)
McCain: 45% (-1)

This should be troubling to McCain supporters.

Uhh, it should?

Are you completely divorced from reality or this just an act?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 30, 2008, 12:22:13 PM
Why is the Gallup LV Traditional now only showing 65.2% of RV showing up.  That's below 1996 levels.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Brittain33 on October 30, 2008, 12:27:38 PM
It is interesting that the traditional and expanded LV models are now merging. Is that by accident or design, as Gallup struggles to make a prediction on the actual turnout model as we get close to the wire?

For some reason, the "traditional" turnout model was coming up with more likely voters than the "expanded" turnout model for a long time. That has now reversed and may help to explain the convergence.

How does an expanded model contract the number of voters?  That concept is just a bit too abstract for me.  :)

Perhaps the young make up a larger share of the electorate, but vote at lower rates than the older people whose share of the electorate gets squeezed.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on October 30, 2008, 12:29:39 PM
It is interesting that the traditional and expanded LV models are now merging. Is that by accident or design, as Gallup struggles to make a prediction on the actual turnout model as we get close to the wire?

For some reason, the "traditional" turnout model was coming up with more likely voters than the "expanded" turnout model for a long time. That has now reversed and may help to explain the convergence.

How does an expanded model contract the number of voters?  That concept is just a bit too abstract for me.  :)

The traditional model weights based on both past voting behavior and current voting intentions (as well as knowledge of such things as who your Representative is). The expanded model weights only based on current voting intentions.

So, someone who has voted a lot in the past and knows what's going on in politics but maybe isn't sure if they're going to vote this year might be included in the traditional model but discluded from the expanded model. I agree that the fact that the traditional model was turning up more voters was very strange, though, and it had been remarked upon a few times  here.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: elcorazon on October 30, 2008, 12:32:03 PM
as registration gets easier and more and more people register, it becomes more likely that the % of those registered would go down...  plus the traditional model is based on past voting behavior and a lot of those who are now registered have never voted before.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on October 30, 2008, 12:37:01 PM
Why is the Gallup LV Traditional now only showing 65.2% of RV showing up.  That's below 1996 levels.

Despite this early voting hubbub, traditional indicators seem laggy to me.  Oregon ballot returns (a limited indicator but the best I know of) are down nearly 20% vs. the same day 2004.  Unless something odd is happening, I would be surprised if RVT isn't down a tick from '04.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Torie on October 30, 2008, 12:40:27 PM
Why is the Gallup LV Traditional now only showing 65.2% of RV showing up.  That's below 1996 levels.

Despite this early voting hubbub, traditional indicators seem laggy to me.  Oregon ballot returns (a limited indicator but the best I know of) are down nearly 20% vs. the same day 2004.  Unless something odd is happening, I would be surprised if RVT isn't down a tick from '04.

That suggests demoralization. So is it downmarket blue collars who voted for Kerry who won't be voting, or cross conflicted Torie voters who voted Bush who won't be voting, or base GOP Bush voters who won't be voting, or Hispanics who voted more for Kerry than Bush who won't be voting?

We know the blacks and the punks will be voting in disproportionate numbers, as well as those liberal on both social and economic issues.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 30, 2008, 12:42:49 PM
Why is the Gallup LV Traditional now only showing 65.2% of RV showing up.  That's below 1996 levels.

Despite this early voting hubbub, traditional indicators seem laggy to me.  Oregon ballot returns (a limited indicator but the best I know of) are down nearly 20% vs. the same day 2004.  Unless something odd is happening, I would be surprised if RVT isn't down a tick from '04.

True, but as I noted before, this number was *higher* than the expanded number only one week ago.

The expanded model now has it at 87%.  In the 2004 elections, it was 73%.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sbane on October 30, 2008, 12:46:19 PM
Why is the Gallup LV Traditional now only showing 65.2% of RV showing up.  That's below 1996 levels.

Despite this early voting hubbub, traditional indicators seem laggy to me.  Oregon ballot returns (a limited indicator but the best I know of) are down nearly 20% vs. the same day 2004.  Unless something odd is happening, I would be surprised if RVT isn't down a tick from '04.

That suggests demoralization. So is it downmarket blue collars who voted for Kerry who won't be voting, or cross conflicted Torie voters who voted Bush who won't be voting, or base GOP Bush voters who won't be voting, or Hispanics who voted more for Kerry than Bush who won't be voting?

We know the blacks and the punks will be voting in disproportionate numbers, as well as those liberal on both social and economic issues.

Considering the kinds of places that are losing the most voters in Oregon as compared to 2004, I would guess it is the GOP base that is not showing up in high numbers. I really think Bush did an excellent job of turning out his votes, something Obama seems to be doing better this year. Now since Oregon isn't a swing state we can't read too much into it, but if this pattern is repeated in all the other states, you guys are in for a long night.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on October 30, 2008, 12:47:37 PM
Why is the Gallup LV Traditional now only showing 65.2% of RV showing up.  That's below 1996 levels.

Despite this early voting hubbub, traditional indicators seem laggy to me.  Oregon ballot returns (a limited indicator but the best I know of) are down nearly 20% vs. the same day 2004.  Unless something odd is happening, I would be surprised if RVT isn't down a tick from '04.

That suggests demoralization. So is it downmarket blue collars who voted for Kerry who won't be voting, or cross conflicted Torie voters who voted Bush who won't be voting, or base GOP Bush voters who won't be voting, or Hispanics who voted more for Kerry than Bush who won't be voting?

I'm not sure, honestly.  Outside factors can affect this as well, but I've looked at the Oregon ballot carefully, and I see no explanations.  Maybe stamp costs?  Who knows.

Getting into the more experimental zone:  FiveThirtyEight did an analysis of the Oregon ballot returns (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/in-oregon-turnout-is-down-but.html) and found that, extrapolating ballot returns in a 100% Kerry county and a 100% Bush county, the theoretical Kerry county would see turnout essentially unchanged from 2004.  The theoretical pure Bush-voter county would be off by about 40%.  That type of analysis is prone to noise and outside effects, but that's a significant difference, period.

When it comes to early voting numbers, I'm always skeptical.  Oftentimes they show enthusiasm while ignoring reliable, traditional voters.  But when you have an entire state that's vote-by-mail, and ballots come directly to houses, the amount of enthusiasm in the equation has got to be significantly lower.  Even if these are just voters who are dragging their feet, feet-dragging is going to lose some voters at the margins, and there's just no way that's good news for McCain--or a healthy participative democracy.

(Wish I had more to add about your sub-demographics, other than saying that the Oregon numbers likely show reduced participation among downscale conservatives, but not so much downscale traditional Democrats.  I'm basing that almost entirely on a small handful of counties, though.)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on October 30, 2008, 12:52:13 PM
as registration gets easier and more and more people register, it becomes more likely that the % of those registered would go down...  plus the traditional model is based on past voting behavior and a lot of those who are now registered have never voted before.

Registration as a percentage of the voting age population has not changed substantially since the early 1990s, when it reached about 80%.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 30, 2008, 12:58:00 PM
Why is the Gallup LV Traditional now only showing 65.2% of RV showing up.  That's below 1996 levels.

Despite this early voting hubbub, traditional indicators seem laggy to me.  Oregon ballot returns (a limited indicator but the best I know of) are down nearly 20% vs. the same day 2004.  Unless something odd is happening, I would be surprised if RVT isn't down a tick from '04.

That suggests demoralization. So is it downmarket blue collars who voted for Kerry who won't be voting, or cross conflicted Torie voters who voted Bush who won't be voting, or base GOP Bush voters who won't be voting, or Hispanics who voted more for Kerry than Bush who won't be voting?

I'm not sure, honestly.  Outside factors can affect this as well, but I've looked at the Oregon ballot carefully, and I see no explanations.  Maybe stamp costs?  Who knows.

Getting into the more experimental zone:  FiveThirtyEight did an analysis of the Oregon ballot returns (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/in-oregon-turnout-is-down-but.html) and found that, extrapolating ballot returns in a 100% Kerry county and a 100% Bush county, the theoretical Kerry county would see turnout essentially unchanged from 2004.  The theoretical pure Bush-voter county would be off by about 40%.  That type of analysis is prone to noise and outside effects, but that's a significant difference, period.

When it comes to early voting numbers, I'm always skeptical.  Oftentimes they show enthusiasm while ignoring reliable, traditional voters.  But when you have an entire state that's vote-by-mail, and ballots come directly to houses, the amount of enthusiasm in the equation has got to be significantly lower.  Even if these are just voters who are dragging their feet, feet-dragging is going to lose some voters at the margins, and there's just no way that's good news for McCain--or a healthy participative democracy.

(Wish I had more to add about your sub-demographics, other than saying that the Oregon numbers likely show reduced participation among downscale conservatives, but not so much downscale traditional Democrats.  I'm basing that almost entirely on a small handful of counties, though.)

I understand your point, Alcon (for Oregon), but it doesn't explain the massive shift within the poll itself over the last week.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on October 30, 2008, 01:03:29 PM
Let me see if I can help with this note:

October 30 Graph

()

October 29 Graph

()

October 28 Graph

()

See my point.

I might e-mail Gallup and see if the graph's just a misprint.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on October 30, 2008, 01:12:16 PM
Yeah, I wasn't trying to explain the polls, just give the ground-level stuff I can see concretely.

The poll confuses me just as much as it confuses you.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 30, 2008, 01:58:43 PM
Thursday, October 30th, 2008

RV
Obama: 50% (-1)
McCain: 42% (nc)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 51% (nc)
McCain: 44% (nc)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 50% (+1)
McCain: 45% (-1)

This should be troubling to McCain supporters.

Uhh, it should?

Are you completely divorced from reality or this just an act?

No, I told you long ago, McCain trends better over weekdays in Gallup, and I'm not overjoyed when he goes up a point on a Thursday.  I am worried when he drops late in the week.  That is much more troubling that Obama jumping a point on a Monday release.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on October 30, 2008, 02:42:32 PM
Thursday, October 30th, 2008

RV
Obama: 50% (-1)
McCain: 42% (nc)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 51% (nc)
McCain: 44% (nc)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 50% (+1)
McCain: 45% (-1)

This should be troubling to McCain supporters.

Uhh, it should?

Are you completely divorced from reality or this just an act?

No, I told you long ago, McCain trends better over weekdays in Gallup, and I'm not overjoyed when he goes up a point on a Thursday.  I am worried when he drops late in the week.  That is much more troubling that Obama jumping a point on a Monday release.

I think he was responding to RowanBrandon, not you.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on October 30, 2008, 04:00:31 PM
No, I told you long ago, McCain trends better over weekdays in Gallup, and I'm not overjoyed when he goes up a point on a Thursday.  I am worried when he drops late in the week.  That is much more troubling that Obama jumping a point on a Monday release.

Breathe.  I think you're starting to watch the pools a bit too closely.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MR maverick on October 30, 2008, 05:49:56 PM
The window is closing on McCain another day Obama has moved up after being at 49%.

So much for  "tightening".


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 30, 2008, 05:51:57 PM
No, I told you long ago, McCain trends better over weekdays in Gallup, and I'm not overjoyed when he goes up a point on a Thursday.  I am worried when he drops late in the week.  That is much more troubling that Obama jumping a point on a Monday release.

Breathe.  I think you're starting to watch the pools a bit too closely.  :)

I've been doing this since the summer.  This is not good news for McCain.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on October 30, 2008, 05:53:54 PM
The race is not tightening. Any upset by McCain will be because of illegitimate reasons.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 30, 2008, 06:04:38 PM
The race is not tightening. Any upset by McCain will be because of illegitimate reasons.

of course, anytime the Republican wins it is illegitimate


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MR maverick on October 30, 2008, 06:07:45 PM
The race is not tightening. Any upset by McCain will be because of illegitimate reasons.

Try telling that to the MSM they seem to think its tied.

Then again they wouldn't want a blowout because saying its close gets ratings.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MODU on October 31, 2008, 10:50:00 AM
The race is not tightening. Any upset by McCain will be because of illegitimate reasons.

Huh?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on October 31, 2008, 12:04:29 PM
Friday, October 31st, 2008

RV
Obama: 52% (+2)
McCain: 42% (-1)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 52% (+1)
McCain: 43% (-1)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 51% (+1)
McCain: 43% (-2)

()


Happy Halloween!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reds4 on October 31, 2008, 12:05:03 PM
Looks like Game set and match.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 31, 2008, 12:05:57 PM
Oh my. That just made my day. :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on October 31, 2008, 12:08:03 PM
There's a great thread called "The Coming McCain Victory" in the campaign subforum.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Moooooo on October 31, 2008, 12:09:07 PM
Friday, October 31st, 2008

RV
Obama: 52% (+2)
McCain: 42% (-1)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 52% (+1)
McCain: 43% (-1)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 51% (+1)
McCain: 43% (-2)

()


Happy Halloween!

Obamamercial bounce, Obamamercial bounce! :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 31, 2008, 12:09:24 PM
Quote
PRINCETON, NJ -- The political landscape could be improving for Barack Obama in the waning days of the campaign. Gallup Poll Daily tracking from Oct. 28-30 shows him with an eight percentage point lead over John McCain among traditional likely voters -- 51% to 43% -- his largest margin to date using this historical Gallup Poll voter model.

Since Tuesday, McCain's support among traditional likely voters has dropped by four points (from 47% to 43%), Obama's has risen by two points (from 49% to 51%), and the percentage of undecided voters has increased from 4% to 6%.

Thursday night's interviews are the first conducted entirely after Obama's widely viewed 30-minute prime-time campaign ad, which ran on several television networks Wednesday evening. Obama held a substantial lead over McCain in last night's polling, however no greater than what Gallup found on Wednesday.

Obama's lead among expanded likely voters is only slightly greater than that seen among traditional likely voters. He now leads McCain by nine-points, 52% to 43%, using this looser definition that does not factor in whether respondents have voted in past elections, but strictly relies on their reported level of interest and intention to vote in the 2008 election.

Obama's current 11-point lead over McCain among all registered voters -- 52% to 41% -- is up from an eight-point lead in yesterday's report, and ties his highest advantage on this basis, last recorded 10 days ago. (To view the complete trend since March 7, 2008, click here.)

Obama's favorable position among traditional likely voters in the latest polling is partially reflective of his strong position among all registered voters. However, at other times when Obama has led McCain by 11-points among registered voters, his likely voter advantage has been lower than it is now, in the five- to seven-point range. Thus, Obama's improved likely voter standing also reflects a higher turnout propensity for his supporters than what Gallup has seen at earlier times this month. This could stem from the superiority his well-funded campaign appears to have over the McCain campaign in contacting his supporters to get out and vote. -- Lydia Saad

This election is Safe Obama.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: GMantis on October 31, 2008, 12:10:57 PM
The McCain comeback seems to be in trouble.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on October 31, 2008, 12:36:25 PM
The McCain comeback seems to be in trouble.

Very much so, if this is a good sample.  I suspect it is.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 31, 2008, 12:49:41 PM
This should be showing some of the impact of the infomercial. I wish Rasmussen was showing the same thing but whatever... this is awesome.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reds4 on October 31, 2008, 12:52:06 PM
Actually, I suspect last night's sample was pretty good for Obama in rasmussen's numbers, since the night that rolled off was very pro Obama.


This should be showing some of the impact of the infomercial. I wish Rasmussen was showing the same thing but whatever... this is awesome.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on October 31, 2008, 12:58:50 PM
This should be showing some of the impact of the infomercial. I wish Rasmussen was showing the same thing but whatever... this is awesome.
Gallup sez Wednesday and Thursday night's interviews were pretty much the same, though both obviously very good for Obama.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kalimantan on October 31, 2008, 01:10:41 PM
Thems some nice numbers :)

5 days to go


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 31, 2008, 05:37:53 PM
It's over.  I kind of regret voting for McCain now.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on October 31, 2008, 05:48:46 PM
It's over.  I kind of regret voting for McCain now.

Why? Just because your candidate might not win doesn't mean you should just go along with the crowd and vote for Obama. Sheesh! That's the most pathetic thing you've said in a long time, Ronnie.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 31, 2008, 05:52:15 PM
It's over.  I kind of regret voting for McCain now.

Why? Just because your candidate might not win doesn't mean you should just go along with the crowd and vote for Obama. Sheesh! That's the most pathetic thing you've said in a long time, Ronnie.

Torie has convinced me just a teency bit that McCain wouldn't be too credible.  I don't like his campaign message currently, since it has moved fully to desperation, with the robocalls and all.

I despise Obama, but now I don't think I will be too upset when he is declared president-elect.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on October 31, 2008, 05:55:40 PM
It's over.  I kind of regret voting for McCain now.

Why? Just because your candidate might not win doesn't mean you should just go along with the crowd and vote for Obama. Sheesh! That's the most pathetic thing you've said in a long time, Ronnie.

Torie has convinced me just a teency bit that McCain wouldn't be too credible.  I don't like his campaign message currently, since it has moved fully to desperation, with the robocalls and all.

I despise Obama, but now I don't think I will be too upset when he is declared president-elect.

I have a lot of respect for Torie, but I disagree with him that Obama is less risky than McCain. Neither one really knows the economy, but Obama has the potential to really create a mess if he allows the Democrats to raise taxes. Hell, we don't know if it's going to be for those of us who make $250k, $200k, $150k, or $120k. Everyone keeps giving us different answers. The fact that he gets a free pass on this issue is really pissing me off.

Part of me will be happy when he gets elect so the Democrats will finally get blamed for the mess they helped create when the economy goes into the crapper in 2009, but another part of me sees what long term damage Obama might do to the country. Bernie Frank said it himself, "There are a lot of rich people that we can tax a lot."


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 31, 2008, 08:11:15 PM
Torie is a cool guy and a realist.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on October 31, 2008, 08:32:19 PM
It's over.  I kind of regret voting for McCain now.

Why? Just because your candidate might not win doesn't mean you should just go along with the crowd and vote for Obama. Sheesh! That's the most pathetic thing you've said in a long time, Ronnie.

Torie has convinced me just a teency bit that McCain wouldn't be too credible.  I don't like his campaign message currently, since it has moved fully to desperation, with the robocalls and all.

I despise Obama, but now I don't think I will be too upset when he is declared president-elect.

I have a lot of respect for Torie, but I disagree with him that Obama is less risky than McCain. Neither one really knows the economy, but Obama has the potential to really create a mess if he allows the Democrats to raise taxes. Hell, we don't know if it's going to be for those of us who make $250k, $200k, $150k, or $120k. Everyone keeps giving us different answers. The fact that he gets a free pass on this issue is really pissing me off.

Part of me will be happy when he gets elect so the Democrats will finally get blamed for the mess they helped create when the economy goes into the crapper in 2009, but another part of me sees what long term damage Obama might do to the country. Bernie Frank said it himself, "There are a lot of rich people that we can tax a lot."

Note: I still support McCain; my support is just a whole lot more mild than before.

I kind of have a dueling political ideology.  One part of me is a hard line capitalist, who favors very low income taxes across the board; and another part of me is a moderate populist, that favors increasing foreign aid to countries in poverty.  It is tough to enthusiastically support a candidate who pandered to the far right wing of the Republican party, instead of sticking with his "maverick" views of the past.

My instinct says that if Obama is elected, he won't side with the extremists of his party, i.e. raising taxes, if the economy is crap.  Remember that Obama would really want to be reelected, and he would do anything that he can to not send us in a depression.  He has economic advisers, and I doubt they would advise him to raise taxes on anyone if the GDP plummets 2% in a quarter (which is looking to be increasingly likely).  The pressure is on the Democratic congress -- if they can handle no taxes on the rich for a short while.

My fear is that if McCain will be elected, there will be very much gridlock.  The silver lining to this is that gridlock is a WHOLE lot better than any kind of agenda the Democrats will implement.  This is pretty much the sole reason I support McCain; I want to have divided government, and he is my last best hope (though, not for long, as it seems).  I would likely be strongly leaning toward Obama now if the GOP was in control.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 31, 2008, 10:16:23 PM
Friday, October 31st, 2008

RV
Obama: 52% (+2)
McCain: 42% (-1)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 52% (+1)
McCain: 43% (-1)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 51% (+1)
McCain: 43% (-2)

()


Not very often I :) nowadays but this warrants one! Then Planet Zogby struck ...........


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 31, 2008, 10:19:31 PM
Friday, October 31st, 2008

RV
Obama: 52% (+2)
McCain: 42% (-1)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 52% (+1)
McCain: 43% (-1)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 51% (+1)
McCain: 43% (-2)

()


Not very often I :) nowadays but this warrants one! Then Planet Zogby struck ...........

... and you take Zogby seriously?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 31, 2008, 10:34:16 PM

I may if the other pollsters point to Friday 31st showing a similar trend. That said The Drudge points out that the three-day average is holding steady

Nate's got it up now but points out that one day results can be highly volatile and the Zogster uses nonsensical party weighting

Dave


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on October 31, 2008, 11:09:12 PM

I may if the other pollsters point to Friday 31st showing a similar trend. That said The Drudge points out that the three-day average is holding steady

Nate's got it up now but points out that one day results can be highly volatile and the Zogster uses nonsensical party weighting

Dave

The man is a goddamned liar, dude.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MR maverick on October 31, 2008, 11:33:02 PM
It's over.  I kind of regret voting for McCain now.

Why? Just because your candidate might not win doesn't mean you should just go along with the crowd and vote for Obama. Sheesh! That's the most pathetic thing you've said in a long time, Ronnie.

Torie has convinced me just a teency bit that McCain wouldn't be too credible.  I don't like his campaign message currently, since it has moved fully to desperation, with the robocalls and all.

I despise Obama, but now I don't think I will be too upset when he is declared president-elect.

I have a lot of respect for Torie, but I disagree with him that Obama is less risky than McCain. Neither one really knows the economy, but Obama has the potential to really create a mess if he allows the Democrats to raise taxes. Hell, we don't know if it's going to be for those of us who make $250k, $200k, $150k, or $120k. Everyone keeps giving us different answers. The fact that he gets a free pass on this issue is really pissing me off.

Part of me will be happy when he gets elect so the Democrats will finally get blamed for the mess they helped create when the economy goes into the crapper in 2009, but another part of me sees what long term damage Obama might do to the country. Bernie Frank said it himself, "There are a lot of rich people that we can tax a lot."



Seriously you guys take the tax issue way too far.

I don't think either on will really do anything with taxes atleast nothing extreme. McCain will look out for the rich like a good republican would, Obama less so.

Obama is not risky .. look at how he's ran the campaign compared to McCain being all over the road.

And ... PALIN = more risky then un protected sex with a hooker.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Mr.Jones on November 01, 2008, 03:01:06 AM
Looking at the fact that McCain can pass away any time because of his old age, seriously can we afford Sarah Palin as our President after 8 years of Bush presidency ?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on November 01, 2008, 06:55:29 AM
Looking at the fact that McCain can pass away any time because of his old age, seriously can we afford Sarah Palin as our President after 8 years of Bush presidency ?
Seeing as you survived Bush, if just barely, I suppose Palin can't be too bad either.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 01, 2008, 10:29:30 AM
Looking at the fact that McCain can pass away any time because of his old age, seriously can we afford Sarah Palin as our President after 8 years of Bush presidency ?

That would be terrible.  We'd have someone with limited experience in national office, isular, with no executive experience ... oh, wait.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: afleitch on November 01, 2008, 10:32:41 AM
Looking at the fact that McCain can pass away any time because of his old age, seriously can we afford Sarah Palin as our President after 8 years of Bush presidency ?

That would be terrible.  We'd have someone with limited experience in national office, isular, with no executive experience ... oh, wait.

It's who a President surrounds himself while in office with that makes him bad, good or great. While it is likely that both Obama and McCain would reach across the gap and appoint from the other party, I have yet to be given any assurrance that Palin would.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on November 01, 2008, 10:56:08 AM
Looking at the fact that McCain can pass away any time because of his old age, seriously can we afford Sarah Palin as our President after 8 years of Bush presidency ?

That would be terrible.  We'd have someone with limited experience in national office, isular, with no executive experience ... oh, wait.

It's who a President surrounds himself while in office with that makes him bad, good or great. While it is likely that both Obama and McCain would reach across the gap and appoint from the other party, I have yet to be given any assurrance that Palin would.

Why? She has worked with Dems before. She alligns herself with Repubs and Dems who are willing to put corrupt politicans in jail.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 01, 2008, 11:20:45 AM
Looking at the fact that McCain can pass away any time because of his old age, seriously can we afford Sarah Palin as our President after 8 years of Bush presidency ?

That would be terrible.  We'd have someone with limited experience in national office, isular, with no executive experience ... oh, wait.

It's who a President surrounds himself while in office with that makes him bad, good or great. While it is likely that both Obama and McCain would reach across the gap and appoint from the other party, I have yet to be given any assurrance that Palin would.

Why? She has worked with Dems before. She alligns herself with Repubs and Dems who are willing to put corrupt politicans in jail.

I didn't know Palin associated with Rezko?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on November 01, 2008, 12:08:00 PM
Saturday - November 1, 2008

RV
Obama: 52% (nc)
McCain: 41% (nc)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 52% (nc)
McCain: 42% (-1)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 52% (+1)
McCain: 42% (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on November 01, 2008, 12:10:09 PM
GALLUP SHOCK: OBAMA UP 10 in Likely Voters

()

http://www.gallup.com/poll/111661/Gallup-Daily-Obama-52-McCain-42-Among-Likely-Voters.aspx

()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on November 01, 2008, 12:11:54 PM
owned


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on November 01, 2008, 12:12:09 PM
Now, who is right ?

Zogby ? McCain+1 ?
Rasmussen ? Obama+5 ? *
Gallup ? Obama+10/11 ?

* indicates my choice


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on November 01, 2008, 12:13:25 PM
I don't know who's right -- Rasmussen or Gallup.  I guess we have to wait until election day.

But yeah, this election is over.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: afleitch on November 01, 2008, 12:13:43 PM
Now, who is right ?

Zogby ? McCain+1 ?
Rasmussen ? Obama+5 ? *
Gallup ? Obama+10/11 ?

* indicates my choice

McCain was only +1 in Zogby in a one day sample. Overall it's still Obama +5


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Democratic Hawk on November 01, 2008, 12:16:11 PM
:)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Moooooo on November 01, 2008, 12:18:00 PM
I wonder if McCain will get the Mondale talk tomorrow? Keep your chin up for the down ballot races, but it ain't looking good.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on November 01, 2008, 12:18:18 PM
Wow, did not expect the TRADITIONAL model to be showing this sort of result.

wow.




Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on November 01, 2008, 12:21:58 PM
Wow, did not expect the TRADITIONAL model to be showing this sort of result.

wow.




Have we actually gotten a good explanation on how the Traditional Model differs from the other models?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on November 01, 2008, 12:23:22 PM
Wow, did not expect the TRADITIONAL model to be showing this sort of result.

wow.




Have we actually gotten a good explanation on how the Traditional Model differs from the other models?

No one knows.  All we know is that it doesn't apply as strict of a standard to past voting behavior.

This sample might include Halloween, but it also includes Obama's informercial.



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nutmeg on November 01, 2008, 12:29:53 PM
Looking at the fact that McCain can pass away any time because of his old age, seriously can we afford Sarah Palin as our President after 8 years of Bush presidency ?
That would be terrible.  We'd have someone with limited experience in national office, isular, with no executive experience ... oh, wait.

I thought Palin's whole appeal was her "executive experience"?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on November 01, 2008, 12:46:03 PM
That's why he had the "oh wait"


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Zarn on November 01, 2008, 01:14:05 PM
Gallup falls from grace (even if Obama wins by 8% or less).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on November 01, 2008, 01:26:28 PM
They're picking up more voters in Traditional than Expanded again...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on November 01, 2008, 01:26:49 PM
Wasn't Gallup horrendous in 2004 anyway?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on November 01, 2008, 01:28:56 PM

No, they nailed the national numbers in '04 in the traditional likely voter model.  The state numbers were very shaky, but they stopped doing those anyway.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Wall St. Wiz on November 01, 2008, 01:31:58 PM
Brutal numbers the last two days for McCain in the trackers, Zogby aside.  I think the informercial gave him a bump as I expected.  Oh well, I resigned myself to a McCain loss a long time ago.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 01, 2008, 03:22:48 PM
Looking at the fact that McCain can pass away any time because of his old age, seriously can we afford Sarah Palin as our President after 8 years of Bush presidency ?
That would be terrible.  We'd have someone with limited experience in national office, isular, with no executive experience ... oh, wait.

I thought Palin's whole appeal was her "executive experience"?

You missed the humor.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on November 01, 2008, 03:25:42 PM
There was humour?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 01, 2008, 04:16:42 PM

No, "h-u-m-or-r" since this an American election.  You just didn't get it, but what else is new?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on November 01, 2008, 04:33:06 PM

No, "h-u-m-or-r" since this an American election.  You just didn't get it, but what else is new?

Humorr?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on November 01, 2008, 05:01:15 PM
Baffling.

*shrug*


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on November 01, 2008, 05:02:51 PM

No, "h-u-m-or-r" since this an American election.  You just didn't get it, but what else is new?

Humorr?

I doubt J.J. won the Mensa spelling bee.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on November 01, 2008, 05:03:50 PM
Wow, did not expect the TRADITIONAL model to be showing this sort of result.

wow.




Have we actually gotten a good explanation on how the Traditional Model differs from the other models?

The traditional model takes into consideration both past voting history and currently stated voting intentions. The expanded model considers only currently stated intentions.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on November 01, 2008, 05:16:21 PM
What a comeback by McCain, to be down double digits.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on November 01, 2008, 05:24:54 PM

No, "h-u-m-or-r" since this an American election.  You just didn't get it, but what else is new?

Humorr?

I doubt J.J. won the Mensa spelling bee.

That made me laugh a lot more than it should.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 01, 2008, 08:03:06 PM

No, "h-u-m-or-r" since this an American election.  You just didn't get it, but what else is new?

Humorr?

I doubt J.J. won the Mensa spelling bee.

No, but I do make typos.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Nym90 on November 01, 2008, 09:10:01 PM
What a comeback by McCain, to be down double digits.

He's got us right where he wants us.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Reaganfan on November 01, 2008, 09:35:34 PM
What a comeback by McCain, to be down double digits.

If John McCain posted on the Atlas...atleast he wouldn't have frickin' hieroglyphics as his screenname. He's coming back...GET OVER IT!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sarnstrom on November 01, 2008, 09:37:27 PM
What a comeback by McCain, to be down double digits.

If John McCain posted on the Atlas...atleast he wouldn't have frickin' hieroglyphics as his screenname. He's coming back...GET OVER IT!
Well he better get on that "coming back" strategy of his because the polls open in like 70 hours.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on November 01, 2008, 09:54:47 PM
This is what happens when you don't weight your polls.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: seamjay on November 01, 2008, 10:02:27 PM
Obama and McCain: Mamba and Cocaine Get Anagrammed in Run Up to Election!
http://www.quazen.com/Games/Puzzles/Obama-and-Mccain-Mamba-and-Cocaine-Get-Anagrammed-in-Run-Up-to-Election.324789 (http://www.quazen.com/Games/Puzzles/Obama-and-Mccain-Mamba-and-Cocaine-Get-Anagrammed-in-Run-Up-to-Election.324789)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 01, 2008, 10:49:58 PM
What a comeback by McCain, to be down double digits.

If John McCain posted on the Atlas...atleast he wouldn't have frickin' hieroglyphics as his screenname. He's coming back...GET OVER IT!
Well he better get on that "coming back" strategy of his because the polls open in like 70 hours.

He actually is, which is why we've been discussing PA.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on November 02, 2008, 01:37:09 AM
What a comeback by McCain, to be down double digits.

If John McCain posted on the Atlas...atleast he wouldn't have frickin' hieroglyphics as his screenname. He's coming back...GET OVER IT!
Well he better get on that "coming back" strategy of his because the polls open in like 70 hours.

He actually is, which is why we've been discussing PA.  :)

Yep, candidates down double digits in the Gallup poll often win the election. Yup, yup.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 02, 2008, 08:21:15 AM
What a comeback by McCain, to be down double digits.

If John McCain posted on the Atlas...atleast he wouldn't have frickin' hieroglyphics as his screenname. He's coming back...GET OVER IT!
Well he better get on that "coming back" strategy of his because the polls open in like 70 hours.

He actually is, which is why we've been discussing PA.  :)

Yep, candidates down double digits in the Gallup poll often win the election. Yup, yup.

Why is a candidate doing so well sending out urgent requests for more volunteers. especially one with a good ground game?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kalimantan on November 02, 2008, 10:56:46 AM
Why is a candidate doing so well sending out urgent requests for more volunteers. especially one with a good ground game?

God you're such a liar


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Mr.Jones on November 02, 2008, 11:07:48 AM
Why is a candidate doing so well sending out urgent requests for more volunteers. especially one with a good ground game?

Cause he is a smart man, and like any smart man in a dual, doesnt want to give his opponent an iota of chance.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on November 02, 2008, 12:30:45 PM
JJ apparently believes that candidates who are ahead generally stop campaigning in the final week.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Tender Branson on November 02, 2008, 01:03:32 PM
Sunday - November 2, 2008

RV
Obama: 52% (nc)
McCain: 41% (nc)

LV (Expanded)
Obama: 52% (nc)
McCain: 43% (+1)

LV (Traditional)
Obama: 51% (-1)
McCain: 43% (+1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Ronnie on November 02, 2008, 01:04:25 PM
I don't think Obama will win by this much, but it's possible.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: BlueSwan on November 02, 2008, 01:08:38 PM
Ahhhh....I love reading the daily Gallup polll. So comforting.

However, it does appear a bit strange that Obamas numbers are way better with Gallup than with any of the other trackers. Only the non-trackers have numbers that are that good for Obama (or even better).


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Edu on November 02, 2008, 01:09:27 PM
Obama just needs all the Gore states + NH + Colorado to win. He seems to be up by a good amount in NH and Colorado  and he's doing all right in all the Gore states.

McCain strategy seems to be concentrating on Pennsylvania, so why would Obama let him gain points by stop campaigning in the state?. It seems logical to me that if McCain is specifically targeting the state to win then Obama should spend money and time there to try and neutralize any effect McCain might be having.

Obama has money and he doesn't really need Florida, Ohio, Missouri, Nevada, Indiana, North Carolina, Virginia or Arizona to win the election. So both candidates campaigning there heavily doesn't strike as too odd in my opinion.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on November 02, 2008, 01:57:43 PM
What a comeback by McCain, to be down double digits.

If John McCain posted on the Atlas...atleast he wouldn't have frickin' hieroglyphics as his screenname. He's coming back...GET OVER IT!
Well he better get on that "coming back" strategy of his because the polls open in like 70 hours.

He actually is, which is why we've been discussing PA.  :)

Yep, candidates down double digits in the Gallup poll often win the election. Yup, yup.

Why is a candidate doing so well sending out urgent requests for more volunteers. especially one with a good ground game?

Why wouldn't he? It doesn't hurt him in any way. Just because Obama's ahead doesn't mean he should just sit down and forget everything or instead focus on Idaho or something.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 02, 2008, 02:01:59 PM
Why is a candidate doing so well sending out urgent requests for more volunteers. especially one with a good ground game?

God you're such a liar

No, I'm telling what was reported on MSNBC this morning.

I also believe that campaigns with good ground games will have their volunteers in place more than 72 hours before the election. 


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on November 02, 2008, 02:04:21 PM
Because he's trying to motivate his troops across the country by pretending he's on the verge of losing.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 02, 2008, 02:13:54 PM
Because he's trying to motivate his troops across the country by pretending he's on the verge of losing.

It could be, but the call for volunteers 48 hours before the polls open is pretty stunning.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on November 02, 2008, 02:14:54 PM
Because he's trying to motivate his troops across the country by pretending he's on the verge of losing.

It could be, but the call for volunteers 48 hours before the polls open is pretty stunning.

Not really.

But you like to interpret every event as something that's bad for Obama.  I'd like your final prediction on PA's margin sometime, yo.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 02, 2008, 02:19:51 PM
Because he's trying to motivate his troops across the country by pretending he's on the verge of losing.

It could be, but the call for volunteers 48 hours before the polls open is pretty stunning.

Not really.

But you like to interpret every event as something that's bad for Obama.  I'd like your final prediction on PA's margin sometime, yo.

Lunar, I've been saying PA would be close for about 5 weeks.  I've also expressed doubt of Obama's ground game effectiveness here.

I don't change them, so it's still Obama by 1.5 points.  I'll bet I'm going to end up with a 3.5 MOE of that.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on November 02, 2008, 02:28:51 PM
Wait, predictions have statistical MoEs now?  :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on November 02, 2008, 02:31:54 PM
Alright J.J., we'll see who is closer. I can wait two days, thanks.

Wait, predictions have statistical MoEs now?  :P

Some posters need them more than others :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Meeker on November 02, 2008, 02:34:22 PM
We're still trying to get volunteers for Election Day in our offices here in Washington - why the hell would we stop trying to find more?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 02, 2008, 03:45:41 PM
Alright J.J., we'll see who is closer. I can wait two days, thanks.

Wait, predictions have statistical MoEs now?  :P

Some posters need them more than others :)

Give me a break, I made the prediction in September.  I'm still expecting Obama to take the state.

We're still trying to get volunteers for Election Day in our offices here in Washington - why the hell would we stop trying to find more?

Meeker, did you send out an urgent e-mail this morning to get them?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on November 02, 2008, 03:59:38 PM
He put up the bat signal.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Alcon on November 02, 2008, 04:10:32 PM
Alright J.J., we'll see who is closer. I can wait two days, thanks.

Wait, predictions have statistical MoEs now?  :P

Some posters need them more than others :)

Give me a break, I made the prediction in September.  I'm still expecting Obama to take the state.

We're still trying to get volunteers for Election Day in our offices here in Washington - why the hell would we stop trying to find more?

Meeker, did you send out an urgent e-mail this morning to get them?

If you're going to update your predictions to have big MoEs later on, why not just make new ones?  That defeats the purpose of predicting early.  You gave yourself a seven-point leeway on margin, that's kind of ridiculous.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Edu on November 02, 2008, 04:14:05 PM
Meeker, did you send out an urgent e-mail this morning to get them?

But McCain isn't heavily contesting Washington. That's a difference i think.

I think it would be foolish for the Obama campaign to ignore an important state where the other candidate is concentrating on, even if he's up ahead by 7 or whatever. And making things "urgent" might help motivate the Obama supporters, i don't see anything strange about it.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 02, 2008, 05:47:40 PM
Alright J.J., we'll see who is closer. I can wait two days, thanks.

Wait, predictions have statistical MoEs now?  :P

Some posters need them more than others :)

Give me a break, I made the prediction in September.  I'm still expecting Obama to take the state.

We're still trying to get volunteers for Election Day in our offices here in Washington - why the hell would we stop trying to find more?

Meeker, did you send out an urgent e-mail this morning to get them?

If you're going to update your predictions to have big MoEs later on, why not just make new ones?  That defeats the purpose of predicting early.  You gave yourself a seven-point leeway on margin, that's kind of ridiculous.

I think it's going to be close, so I'll actually stick with the 1.5 points.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 02, 2008, 05:48:31 PM
JJ apparently believes that candidates who are ahead generally stop campaigning in the final week.

Only if they're named Tom Dewey :P


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kalimantan on November 02, 2008, 05:58:34 PM
Why is a candidate doing so well sending out urgent requests for more volunteers. especially one with a good ground game?

God you're such a liar

No, I'm telling what was reported on MSNBC this morning.

I also believe that campaigns with good ground games will have their volunteers in place more than 72 hours before the election. 

I think you're mistaken JJ.

I meant, you're a liar that you are in MENSA.

Because, people have to be intelligent to get into MENSA.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Iosif on November 02, 2008, 06:34:05 PM
Not in the Pennsylvania branch.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 02, 2008, 07:22:24 PM
Why is a candidate doing so well sending out urgent requests for more volunteers. especially one with a good ground game?

God you're such a liar

No, I'm telling what was reported on MSNBC this morning.

I also believe that campaigns with good ground games will have their volunteers in place more than 72 hours before the election. 

I think you're mistaken JJ.

I meant, you're a liar that you are in MENSA.

Because, people have to be intelligent to get into MENSA.

Well, I am a life member of Mensa, note that it isn't capitalized.  I doubt if you are eligible.

Here is the link to the e-mail:

http://www.politickerpa.com/wallyedgepa/2466/obama-campaign-says-not-hitting-targets

Text: 

There's an urgent need for volunteers right now at our Last Call for Change phonebanks.

We aren't reaching our targets, and we're facing a last-minute challenge from the McCain campaign in the key battleground state of Pennsylvania.

You can make a big difference by calling Pennsylvania voters and telling them their polling location.

Find the Last Call for Change phonebank near you and sign up for a time that works for you.

Pennsylvania is McCain's last stand. His campaign is fighting hard in the Keystone state because it's their best path to victory.

They're spending a fortune, and McCain himself is spending a lot of time there.

We need you to fight back right now.

You'll be calling Obama supporters, telling them their polling location, and making sure they cast their vote for change in a crucial battleground state.

Find your nearest Last Call for Change phonebank and bring a couple of friends with you.

There are just two days left now. We're seeing a race that's getting tighter and tighter. We need you now more than ever.   


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kalimantan on November 02, 2008, 07:46:29 PM
Well, I am a life member of Mensa, note that it isn't capitalized.  I doubt if you are eligible.


I don't believe you.

You argue that a candidate for president should stop trying to get his vote out 3 days before the election because he is ahead. The worst thing is, you believe this to be true.

If you're in mensa, the only qualification is whether you can pay the membership fee.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Person Man on November 02, 2008, 07:48:30 PM
Yeah man, were paranoid. That's why we are still trying to get the vote out in Iowa and Colorado.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on November 02, 2008, 08:01:59 PM
The lady I was canvassing with today got a call from her daughter at the time, who was also canvassing for GOTV. And her daughter lives in Brooklyn.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 02, 2008, 08:06:13 PM
Well, I am a life member of Mensa, note that it isn't capitalized.  I doubt if you are eligible.


I don't believe you.

You argue that a candidate for president should stop trying to get his vote out 3 days before the election because he is ahead. The worst thing is, you believe this to be true.

No, I argue that you really should have your volunteers in place more than 60 hours prior to election day.  

Quote
If you're in mensa, the only qualification is whether you can pay the membership fee.

()

Weather or not you believe me is irrelevant.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: memphis on November 02, 2008, 08:09:51 PM
Could this thread get any more petty? OMG, you can't be teh smart!!11 Yes, I can too.......


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on November 02, 2008, 08:13:04 PM
http://www.mensaboutique.com/mensa_gear.htm

For a mere $9 more your license plate can be framed:
()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on November 02, 2008, 08:15:19 PM
Could this thread get any more petty? OMG, you can't be teh smart!!11 Yes, I can too.......

especially when a 46-year-old feels the need to actively take part in a dick-waving contest


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kalimantan on November 02, 2008, 08:18:02 PM
Of course I believe you're in mensa JJ (afterall, that bumper sticker is irrefutable proof)

and because you're in mensa you should be able to recognise that I'm pointing out the discrepancy between your being a member of mensa and the idiotic, illogical posts that you come up with.

Unfortunately it appears that being a republican hack usurps even intelligence.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Meeker on November 02, 2008, 08:21:36 PM
We're still trying to get volunteers for Election Day in our offices here in Washington - why the hell would we stop trying to find more?

Meeker, did you send out an urgent e-mail this morning to get them?

We did last night.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 02, 2008, 08:30:53 PM
Could this thread get any more petty? OMG, you can't be teh smart!!11 Yes, I can too.......

especially when a 46-year-old feels the need to actively take part in a dick-waving contest

No, merely stating facts.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 02, 2008, 08:32:56 PM
http://www.mensaboutique.com/mensa_gear.htm

For a mere $9 more your license plate can be framed:
()

The bumper stickers were about $2.50, IIRC.  This, however, is an example of applied intelligence.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 02, 2008, 08:34:45 PM
We're still trying to get volunteers for Election Day in our offices here in Washington - why the hell would we stop trying to find more?

Meeker, did you send out an urgent e-mail this morning to get them?

We did last night.

The only one I've seen, specifically asking for volunteers was for PA.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lunar on November 02, 2008, 08:40:12 PM
http://www.mensaboutique.com/mensa_gear.htm

For a mere $9 more your license plate can be framed:
()

The bumper stickers were about $2.50, IIRC.  This, however, is an example of applied intelligence.

I was trying to make a subtle jab saying that anyone can buy these stickers :)



Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on November 02, 2008, 08:41:13 PM
Which of the Js in J. J. stands for Joke I wonder? He should just be J. P., Joke Poster.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 02, 2008, 08:44:38 PM
http://www.mensaboutique.com/mensa_gear.htm

For a mere $9 more your license plate can be framed:
()

The bumper stickers were about $2.50, IIRC.  This, however, is an example of applied intelligence.

I was trying to make a subtle jab saying that anyone can buy these stickers :)



I think they require a membership number and the license plate frames fade.  They also don't serve as an example of implied intelligence.

Which of the Js in J. J. stands for Joke I wonder? He should just be J. P., Joke Poster.

So far, my close prediction of PA seems to be coming true.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on November 02, 2008, 09:53:53 PM
Weather or not you believe me is irrelevant.

*facepalm*


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 02, 2008, 10:26:59 PM

Sorry, I was trying to get the election day forecast at the time I typed it.  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sarnstrom on November 02, 2008, 11:15:58 PM
Monday November 3, 2008

Registered Voters
Obama 53% (+1)
McCain 40% (-1)

Likely Voters (Expanded)
Obama 53% (+1)
McCain 42% (-1)

Likely Voters (Traditional)
Obama 53% (+2)
McCain 42% (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: exopolitician on November 02, 2008, 11:16:47 PM
Monday November 3, 2008

Registered Voters
Obama 53% (+1)
McCain 40% (-1)

Likely Voters (Expanded)
Obama 53% (+1)
McCain 42% (-1)

Likely Voters (Traditional)
Obama 53% (+2)
McCain 42% (-1)

?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sarnstrom on November 02, 2008, 11:19:19 PM
Monday November 3, 2008

Registered Voters
Obama 53% (+1)
McCain 40% (-1)

Likely Voters (Expanded)
Obama 53% (+1)
McCain 42% (-1)

Likely Voters (Traditional)
Obama 53% (+2)
McCain 42% (-1)

?
Check out their homepage, they updated already. That's their final poll too.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: exopolitician on November 02, 2008, 11:20:10 PM
Monday November 3, 2008

Registered Voters
Obama 53% (+1)
McCain 40% (-1)

Likely Voters (Expanded)
Obama 53% (+1)
McCain 42% (-1)

Likely Voters (Traditional)
Obama 53% (+2)
McCain 42% (-1)

?
Check out their homepage, they updated already. That's their final poll too.

Oh. Well awesome.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on November 02, 2008, 11:30:22 PM
Guess we won't get a test of whether "Traditional" or "Expanded" is a superior model, then.

Still picking up more voters in "Traditional", too (barely).

()


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on November 02, 2008, 11:38:36 PM
Also worth noting: Gallup is forecasting turnout at 64% of VAP, the highest since 1908 (!).

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/turnout.php


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Lief 🗽 on November 02, 2008, 11:41:50 PM
Also worth noting: Gallup is forecasting turnout at 64% of VAP, the highest since 1956 (!).
Well, one can hope. What would that be, 145 million or so?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Verily on November 02, 2008, 11:46:04 PM
Also worth noting: Gallup is forecasting turnout at 64% of VAP, the highest since 1956 (!).
Well, one can hope. What would that be, 145 million or so?

I'm not sure (fixed the post, by the way, would be highest since 1908, not 1956). I'm also not sure if it's VAP or a colloquial usage of the term "voting-age population" to refer to VEP (voting-eligible population, i.e. only legal residents and non-felons plus citizens abroad), which is generally more precise in the modern era. But VEP and VAP converge once you get back to the 1980s or so, so it would still be the highest turnout in terms of VAP/VEP since 1908.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kalimantan on November 03, 2008, 05:10:10 AM
Guess we won't get a test of whether "Traditional" or "Expanded" is a superior model, then.


Hmmm, seems a bit fishy that..


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kalimantan on November 03, 2008, 05:11:56 AM
Hey JJ, didn't mean to be quite so abusive last night, had had a few too many drinks. Still think you post a lot of hackish rubbish, but there was no need to be so rude. sorry 'bout that.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Gustaf on November 03, 2008, 06:50:10 AM
I'm not getting into the fight but there is no way to tell a person's intelligence based on things like predictions or internet posts.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 03, 2008, 07:01:11 AM
Hey JJ, didn't mean to be quite so abusive last night, had had a few too many drinks. Still think you post a lot of hackish rubbish, but there was no need to be so rude. sorry 'bout that.

I'll treat you as being a "wet Democrat."  :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Kalimantan on November 03, 2008, 07:04:22 AM
Hey JJ, didn't mean to be quite so abusive last night, had had a few too many drinks. Still think you post a lot of hackish rubbish, but there was no need to be so rude. sorry 'bout that.

I'll treat you as being a "wet Democrat."  :)


HA! you bastard ! :)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: J. J. on November 03, 2008, 07:34:50 AM
Hey JJ, didn't mean to be quite so abusive last night, had had a few too many drinks. Still think you post a lot of hackish rubbish, but there was no need to be so rude. sorry 'bout that.

I'll treat you as being a "wet Democrat."  :)


HA! you bastard ! :)

Well, I probably would have voted for Al Smith.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Firefly on November 03, 2008, 11:10:11 AM
From Gallup:

"While only 4% of voters remain undecided in Gallup's unallocated likely voter model, the final poll estimates that a slightly larger 10% of likely voters still have the potential to either change their mind or make up their mind. Even if McCain converts the vast majority of swing voters, victory for him would be highly unlikely since 51% of likely voters say they are certain to vote for Obama compared with 39% who say they are sure they will vote for McCain."


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on November 03, 2008, 12:20:14 PM
From Gallup:

"While only 4% of voters remain undecided in Gallup's unallocated likely voter model, the final poll estimates that a slightly larger 10% of likely voters still have the potential to either change their mind or make up their mind. Even if McCain converts the vast majority of swing voters, victory for him would be highly unlikely since 51% of likely voters say they are certain to vote for Obama compared with 39% who say they are sure they will vote for McCain."

Ouch.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: © tweed on November 03, 2008, 01:01:58 PM
11/03/08

Registered

Obama 53 (+1)
McCain 40 (-1)

LV expanded

Obama 53 (+1)
McCain 42 (-1)

LV traditional

Obama 53 (+2)
McCain 42 (-1)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Eraserhead on November 03, 2008, 01:05:33 PM
wow. Just... wow.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: minionofmidas on November 03, 2008, 01:31:14 PM
Alright... is Gallup smoking crack, or is it everybody else?


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: afleitch on November 03, 2008, 01:38:58 PM
Alright... is Gallup smoking crack, or is it everybody else?

I'll have what Gallups having ;D


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: BlueSwan on November 03, 2008, 01:41:42 PM
Gallup must be certain of what they're doing here. They're basically putting their entire reputation on the line here. If the election is close, they are gonna look like fools.

Here's hoping that they're spot on!


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on November 03, 2008, 04:32:09 PM

Sorry, I was trying to get the election day forecast at the time I typed it.  :)

Don't worry, I'm not going to slag on your intellect.  We agree too often for that.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: TheGlobalizer on November 03, 2008, 04:36:00 PM
Gallup must be certain of what they're doing here. They're basically putting their entire reputation on the line here. If the election is close, they are gonna look like fools.

Here's hoping that they're spot on!

To be fair, I think Gallup is stronger with less dynamic issues.  (Same with Pew.)

I'd personally rather that they stick to their World Poll and other similar work, which is uniformly fantastic.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on November 07, 2008, 01:52:51 PM
Friday, November 7, 2008
Favorable 66%(+5)
Unfavorable 29%(-4)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: MR maverick on November 08, 2008, 03:19:40 AM
Friday, November 7, 2008
Favorable 66%(+5)
Unfavorable 29%(-4)


He hasn't even moved into the white yet.


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Sam Spade on November 08, 2008, 11:07:09 AM
Friday, November 7, 2008
Favorable 66%(+5)
Unfavorable 29%(-4)


He hasn't even moved into the white yet.

Remember what Gallup is particularly susceptible to...


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on November 08, 2008, 01:24:31 PM
Saturday, November 8, 2008
Favorable 70%(+4)
Unfavorable 25%(-4)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: Rowan on November 09, 2008, 02:14:16 PM
Sunday, November 9, 2008
Favorable 70%(nc)
Unfavorable 25%(nc)


Title: Re: Gallup Tracking Poll Thread [Obama vs McCain]
Post by: muon2 on November 09, 2008, 11:26:53 PM
As much as the tracking poll is interesting, at some point we will want to have this entire board semi-retired as we did with 2004. Tracking official job performance is probably more appropriate on the US General board.