Talk Elections

In Daniel 12:4 the angel told Daniel to "shut up the words of his book, and seal it even to the time of the end", meaning that the prophetic scriptures contained therein COULD NOT be understood until THE TIME OF THE END, after those scriptures had come to pass.
And yet, some 300-400 years ago our Protestant forefathers created a myth out of those scriptures which today is still accepted as truth.
 
The myth of which I refer is "the Antichrist" teaching......the teaching which says that, sometime in the future a false messiah called "the Antichrist" will arise, and will sign a peace treaty with Israel.  And that, he will take away the (yet to be reinstated animal sacrifices), and will sit down in a (yet to be built) temple in Jerusalem, and claim to be God.

Problem is, the prophetic scriptures say nothing at all about a coming false messiah, nor is the word "Antichrist" found anywhere in the prophetic scriptures.
Nor do the prophetic sacriptures say anything about a peace treaty with Israel, nor about animal sacrifices, nor about a rebuilt Jewish temple.

The early Protestants; john Darby and others,  simply ignored Dan.12:4, and by adding to the scriptures they created their own version of end-time events.  Sadly, it's the version which the whole Christian world has come to believe.

The bottom line of all the end-time scriptures is this:
"The Second Coming of Christ cannot occur until America falls away, and black Americans exalt themselves above the white Americans and above God." 
 

Somewhere in the world, a subway station is missing its hobo.

()

Ummmmmm... what?  Even if some of what you say is true, I fail to see how you justify the logical leap that you take to reach your conclusion.

Oh crap, retard's back.

Inebriate-Americans deserve better than your libel.

I don’t know if the antichrist is real. I was listening to Coast to Coast one night a few years ago and the women on said this Middle eastern fellow was the guy. It was creepy, since apparently his followers worship him as a God. But I’ve also heard that the antiChrist is supposed to be Romanian. And recently I’ve heard Tony Blair and Barack Obama could be the antiChrist, which I do not believe. So, I don’t know if there is one or will be one.

But I think the OP is way off in his point, of course. Seems to be putting his own spin on it.

Mat 24:24 "false Christs"

Mark 13:22 "false Christs"

1John 2:18 "you have heard that the antiChrist is coming"

1John 4:3 "every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antiChrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."

I was going to go hunting for those, but I figured it wasn't worth wasting my time.

there's a 99.9% chance that we are wasting time with prophetman

The Anti-Christ is no one individual. The Anti-Christ is any person who denies Christ and his teachings.

     Strongly agreed. I have a strong feeling that next he'll tell us that the New Testament (except for Revelations since he's so obsessed with it) is one long acid trip & should be ignored.

You're absolutely right.

The antichrists spoken of in 1st and 2nd John has no relavance whatsoever to the man of lawlessness  in 11Thes.2.

Our Protestant forefathers actually went outside the prophetic scriptures and borrowed the term from 1st and 2nd John, and applied it to the man of lawlessness.

Had they been mindful of the prophetic scriptures they would have recognized that the man of lawlessness is that "ten horns" that are upon Babylon in Revelation 17, and thus COULD NOT be one individual man.

But, because of their consuming hatred for the Catholic Church and for the Pope, they simply had to find terms in the prophetic scriptures which would fit those 2 entities.  Thus, they applied the term "harlot" to the Catholic Church, and the term "Antichrist" to the Pope.

Sadly, that hatred is still alive and well today in many of the Evangelical and Pentacostal churches of America. 

a) on day release?

b) what the hell does AMERICA have to do with this?

Adding even the word "the" can change the whole meaning of scriptures.

And that is precisely what the author(s) did with that corrupted "One World, New Age" Bible which you are reading from.

The King James says, "Little children, it is the last time, and as you have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists....."  (1John 2:18)

And yet, your corrupted translation says, "you have heard that "the" antichrist is coming."

Sad....really sad.

     Wait, did you just say that African-Americans=the man of lawlessness?

     Did you also use the number of horns as proof that they do not refer to an individual? By your logic then, the ten horns could not be African-Americans since last time I checked, there are more than ten African-Americans.

     Wait, so you mean that African-Americans deny Christ & his teachings? Guess all those historically black churches are not what they seem.

     Seriously though, could you try to be internally consistent with your arguments?

Let's face it - this guy only drew the conclusions he did because of his racism. I can't see any way you could draw them otherwise.

     Fortunately though, no one ever taught him how to hide his racism.

When you take into account everything that's said about the man of lawlessness, (in Daniel, Revelation 13, and 17, 11Thes.2, etc), you'll find that, without exception, America and African Americans fit the profile of every one of those scriptures.

America is that beast nation that has fallen away, and has exalted the African Americans above God.

It's the nation that cut off Christ by taking away the daily worship and prayer ("daily sacrifice and oblation") from its public schools in 1963.

And, it's the nation that put in place "the abomination of desolation" when it did away with the anti-Mescegenation law in 1967.

Dan.11:31
"And arms (the arm of the law) shall stand on his part (of the part of African Americans), and they (the European Americans) shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and shall place the abomination that maketh desolate."

     Please tell me that you don't actually believe that.


     Damn heathens & their bloody 1st Amendement. >:(


     What do you have against inter-racial marriage?

Scriptures do not say that the man of lawlessness "denies Christ and his teachings".  It says that, they "oppose" and "exalt themselves" above all that is called God, or that is worshipped."

In other words, they oppose and exalt themselves above the white Europeans, ie, "the God-man".

As per your comment about "the ten horns"....Don't be stupid!

Don't be hypocritical!

What do "I" have against inter-racial marriage?!!

You're asking the wrong person....Better to ask GOD; the One who's opinion matters.

Among first world countries, America is by far one of the most if not the most religious. You're letting your prejudice against African Americans cloud your judgment. And frankly, I don't see why someone as obviously racist as you isn't calling them ns - we all know that's what you really think of them.


You are aware that other largely Christian countries also don't have prayer in public schools, right? In fact, France hasn't had any school prayer since 1789. In fact they ban even having conspicuous religious symbols for public school students - I'd say that if this is your standard then France meets it far better than the US does.

And you might also wish to reconsider this considering a short prayer in school does not constitute "sacrifice and oblation" - nothing was sacrified, and it wasn't oblation since no offerings were made.


Where exactly in the Bible does it say that interacial marriage is an "abomination" of any sort? As far as I know there is no such passage.

     Is it me or did you just admit to not actually thinking for yourself?

In modern-day terms, which is what these scriptures are about, "sacrifice and oblation" means "daily worship and prayer".

And, you're right, France was never the Christian nation that America is.
In fact, for 350 years America's schools (at least those in the Bible belt) began the day with prayer.

But, due to the Supreme Court ruling in 1963 those prayers were taken away.  Three and a half years later the anti-Mescegenation law was taken away as well, bringing to pass the scripture in Dan.12:11 which says,
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand, two hundred, and ninety days."

Do the math, pal.

even the King James differentiates between the singular "antichrist" and the plural "antichrists"

"Little children, it is the last time, and as you have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists....."  (1John 2:18)

John is pointing to a future time when a singular antichrist shall come, even though there are many people (plural) who currently oppose Christ and therefore can be defined as antiChrists. 

as to the different bible versions:  you can choose whatever version you like as the basis for any discussion with me, for I have yet to find any belief of mine that changes depended on which version I read because I never base any thing on one verse. 

The Bible wasn't written in modern day terms, so why would it be translated to words that mean something else.


France was too a Christian nation, just as all European nations were back in the day.


What math? I'm not buying your arugument as meeting the standards set forth. Furthermore, you haven't answered my question - where in the bible does it state that interracial marriage is an abomination? If you can't show anywhere that it is actually considered an abomination, then your argument has no merit.

My sisters and their husbands are convinced the Antichrist is Barack Obama.  Of course, they were sure it was John Kerry four years ago.  And Al Gore before that.  Clinton was the most entertaining though.  They were sure he was the Antichrist and Hillary was the great whore of Babylon.

Soulty should appreciate that -- because it took the heat off the Catholic Church for eight years.  Of course, now they're back to thinking the Great Whore is Rome.

I don't know how they keep it straight.  Their "mentors" like Jack Van Impe and Hal Lindsey change their predictions with every new book they write.

I prefer my African American neighbor's approach to eschatology --  "Honey, just you keep the lamp lit and shut up about it."

Or, as the Book of Common Prayer puts it, "Christ has died.  Christ is risen.  Christ will come again."

Even so, come...

I'm the Anti-Christ then, I guess.

Jesus said in Matt.24:15,  "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation "spoken of by Daniel the prophet" stand in the holy place...."

That abomination of which Daniel spoke is found in chapter 11, verse 17, which says, "and he (America) shall give him (shall give the man of lawlessness) the daughter of women (America's white daughters) corrupting her:  but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him." 

"And they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men; but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay", Dan.2:43 says.

And then there's the scripture in Rev.17:16 which says,
"And the ten horns  (man of lawlessness) which thou sawest upon the beast (upon Babylon/America); these shall hate the whore (shall hate the white Americans), and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall "eat her flesh", and burn her with fire."

Bet you don't know what "eat her flesh" means.

dude, you're revealing too much.  please let me live out my life in ignorance of your great knowledge.

but, I can be kind to you, because your biblical beliefs are about as twisted as many on this forum.  It  may be a different set of beliefs, but just as twisted.

cheers

*sigh*

Again, that's you stating the abomination is interracial marriage, but that's your own conclusion and not an explicit statement. So let me make this as simple as possible - can you find ONE place in the bible that explicitly says that marrying someone with a different skin color is a sin or an abomination? ANYTHING that says it is an act forbidden by God.

If you can't find anywhere that makes it a forbidden act, then your basis for reaching this conclusion is only your own racism and not based on any sort of scripture. Rather, they are based on an irrational hatred you hold in your heart for your fellow human beings.

applying reason for once, are you?  glad to see it

For once? I apply it plenty. I've never disagreed with you on the notion that if you believe the Bible is fact that you should look up the context of previous items to help draw conclusions about things that come up later. Of course, that "if" doesn't apply to me, so if you think I'm unreasonable when I express my disagreements with the book I'd say that's rather silly of you.

I just meant I find it refreshing that you're even asking what the bible says, instead arguing against the premise of the whole book

Well, even if I think the premise is wrong I can at least know what the premise is - it would be quite silly to argue against a non-existent premise. Sure, while there's quite a few ways that certain things in the Bible might be interpreted that might result in a different premise, I don't see how anyone could logically come up with the interpretations prophetman has been making given the contents of the book.

So, the whore and the 10 kings are BOTH the white Americans? The plot thickens...

I know the Old Testament isn't important here because Christians don't follow the Law, but the Snow-White Miriam incident in Numbers chapter 12 might be an example of God allowing, or at least not caring, about interracial marriage.  However, it's only a few chapters away from God praising Phineas for murdering an Israelite man for socializing with a Midianite woman, so I suppose the message is mixed.  Maybe the message of the Snow-White Miriam incident is that Moses can get away with whatever he wants to because he's God's favorite.

     Alternatively, the message could be to not associate with Midianites. ;)

No, I don't think anyone in the Bible gets special treatment in regards to sinful behavior - even God's "favorites". Moses married a Midianite woman himself, so the interracial aspect of that other incident was probably not of any importance. I'm not really familiar with that part of the Bible though, so I'm just looking it up on wikipedia, so maybe jmfcst can enlighten me on the context of that particular part of the OT.

The story, roughly, is that Moses takes a second wife, of Cush**te (black African) background.  Miriam and Aaron complain to God that Moses is hogging all the glory and that they should be equal to Moses, especially with his wife.  God reprimands Aaron and Miriam for questioning Moses, and covers Miriam with snow-white scaly leprosy for a week as punishment.  (The possible implication being that, because Miriam complained about Moses' black wife, God turned Miriam the exact opposite as punishment)

Cuѕhite?

I can get it past the filter.

Wow, I didn't even notice that.  Yes, I did mean Cuƒhite.

there was no law forbidding the Israelites to marry foreign women as long as the women were converted to the religion of Israel.  (actually, the same law is in place in the New Testament for the Church)  In fact, there are many examples in the Old Testament where they married outside of their race to those who shared the same faith.

So, the Miriam incident involve a false charge against Moses, their spiritual leader.  The lesson is that you shouldn't mock your spiritual leaders without reason.

And as far as the Midianite woman mentioned later, she was not a believer in God:

Num 25:1-3 While Israel was staying in sh**ttim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women, who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods. The people ate and bowed down before these gods. So Israel joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor. And the LORD's anger burned against them.

[/quote]

Bull.  God's Word doesn't change.  Throughout the Old Testiment God strictly forbade the Israelites to mix and intermarry with the other races about them, and He still forbids it today.

God in fact likens to "iron and clay" the intermarriage that's going on today between  European caucasians and African blacks.   "Just as iron will not mix with clay, he says, they shall mix and mingle, but will not cleave one to another."

Up until 40 or so years ago, European Americans believed God.  In fact a 1967 Gallop poll revealed that 97% of white Americans believed that interracial marriage was wrong in the eyes of God.

That began to change however when the anti-misigenation law was struck down in 67, and the harlot Evangelical and Pentacostal churches began to teach that black/white relationships were ok.

Today most white Americans and their churches have completely fallen away from the teaching of God on this matter.

That "falling away", and that "race mixing" in America is what 11Thes.2 says MUST occur before the 2nd Coming of Christ.

Jesus said in Matt.24:15,  "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in America (the Christian place), then shall be great tribulation....."

Suffice to say that, that abomination or race mixing is in full swing today, which means that the tribulation could begin at any moment.  God help us all.

But the reason forbidding interracial marriage was explicit:

Ex 34:15-16 5 "Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. 16 And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same.”

But, when the foreign women worshipped the one true God of Israel, interracial marriage was allowed. 

Examples:

Moses/Zipporah, Salmon/Rahab (the father of Boaz), Boaz/Ruth (mother of Obed, grandfather of David), David/Bathsheba (mother of Solomon, in the blood line of Jesus Christ).

---


Doesn't the New Testament say that as long as two share the same faith, they were allowed to marry whomever they wish?

1Cor 7:39  “she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord.”

From the "give credit where it is due" department:

Jmcfst, you are a better man than I for being so patient with this person.  And you're doing a tremendous, awesome job.  I am glad we agree on a few things at least!