Talk Elections

Atlas Fantasy Elections => Regional Governments => Topic started by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 10, 2008, 02:58:51 PM



Title: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 10, 2008, 02:58:51 PM
This is the official Mideast Assembly Thread.  Once all 3 members have taken their oath of office, business can begin :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 10, 2008, 05:15:38 PM
Shouldn't this be in the government board, not the elections board?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 10, 2008, 05:21:58 PM
Shouldn't this be in the government board, not the elections board?

You're right; if a Mod could move this, that'd be great.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Robespierre's Jaw on September 11, 2008, 02:29:14 AM
Shouldn't this be in the government board, not the elections board?

The Voting Booth thread seems more appropriate to me. Afterall, the Pacific's legislature thread is in the Voting Booth thread and one would assume that would be the perfect place to place such a thread. Anyway, that's my opinion and you Mideasterners can do whatever the hell you want.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on September 11, 2008, 07:24:45 PM
For those wondering about our role. Here is the relevant constitutional parts.

Section 1: The Assembly

   1. The legislative power in the Mideast shall be vested in the Mideastern Assembly, henceforth to be referred to as "the Assembly".
   2. The Assembly shall be composed of five members, each of whom must be resident in the Mideast Region.
   3. The Assembly shall have the power to elect its own officers and judge the qualifications of its members.
   4. Elections to the Assembly shall begin between 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the third Thursday of each odd-numbered month and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
   5. The method of election shall be PR-STV, as specified in Sections 4 to 17 of the Atlasian Proportional Representation Act (F.L. 21-2).
   6. Any vacancies in the Assembly shall be filled through gubernatorial appointment.
   7. Legislation may be proposed by any citizen of the Mideast.
   8. For legislation to be passed by the Assembly, it must be voted for by a majority of those voting.
   9. Three days after the passage of a bill by the Assembly, it shall become law unless the Governor calls for a Proposition on the bill.
  10. Within three days of the failure of a bill in the Assembly, the Governor may call for a Proposition on the bill. This right may only be used once in the Governor's term.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 12, 2008, 12:15:04 AM
First elect a Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on September 12, 2008, 01:53:16 AM

Why? The Lt. Governor is the PO


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on September 13, 2008, 06:19:12 AM
Let's get this started, dear members.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 13, 2008, 06:57:24 AM
What do you fellows feel should be our first order of business?  Is there any truly pressing need in terms of Mideast governance, should we in fact elect a speaker, or should we focus in on needs of the citizens like tax laws and such?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on September 13, 2008, 06:59:41 AM
Great, looks like this farce can now get down to business.  Good thing we have an incompetent governor who appointed who a treasonist Frenchie who can't get elected to anything else instead of the Fmr. Gov. who rightfully should have this seat


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 13, 2008, 07:02:08 AM
Great, looks like this farce can now get down to business.  Good thing we have an incompetent governor who appointed who a treasonist Frenchie who can't get elected to anything else instead of the Fmr. Gov. who rightfully should have this seat

I'm here to!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on September 13, 2008, 07:05:31 AM
Great, looks like this farce can now get down to business.  Good thing we have an incompetent governor who appointed who a treasonist Frenchie who can't get elected to anything else instead of the Fmr. Gov. who rightfully should have this seat

I'm here to!
Well, adding qualified judge who supports regional rights and is not a treasonist Frenchie did not seem to fit with that last statement :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 13, 2008, 07:08:55 AM
Great, looks like this farce can now get down to business.  Good thing we have an incompetent governor who appointed who a treasonist Frenchie who can't get elected to anything else instead of the Fmr. Gov. who rightfully should have this seat

I'm here to!
Well, adding qualified judge who supports regional rights and is not a treasonist Frenchie did not seem to fit with that last statement :)

He isn't a treasonist no matter what everyone else says about him.  However he is a frenchie. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on September 13, 2008, 07:09:42 AM
He isn't a treasonist no matter what everyone else says about him.  However he is a frenchie. :)
He left Atlasia and formed his own country.  How would you define treason?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on September 13, 2008, 07:24:12 AM
We say treasonous. Treasonist isn't even a word.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on September 14, 2008, 12:24:59 AM
     In hindsight, it's probably a good thing that Inks lost since now he's free to run for Governor. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 14, 2008, 07:39:32 PM
Great, looks like this farce can now get down to business.  Good thing we have an incompetent governor who appointed who a treasonist Frenchie who can't get elected to anything else instead of the Fmr. Gov. who rightfully should have this seat

DWDL, if you care so much, move back to the Mideast.  Otherwise, shut the hell up.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on September 14, 2008, 08:36:24 PM
Great, looks like this farce can now get down to business.  Good thing we have an incompetent governor who appointed who a treasonist Frenchie who can't get elected to anything else instead of the Fmr. Gov. who rightfully should have this seat

DWDL, if you care so much, move back to the Mideast.  Otherwise, shut the hell up.
Well as a member of my party it reflects poorly on us that you did this


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 14, 2008, 08:46:20 PM
Great, looks like this farce can now get down to business.  Good thing we have an incompetent governor who appointed who a treasonist Frenchie who can't get elected to anything else instead of the Fmr. Gov. who rightfully should have this seat

DWDL, if you care so much, move back to the Mideast.  Otherwise, shut the hell up.
Well as a member of my party it reflects poorly on us that you did this

It will have no effect at all on anything; instead of being in the Assembly, Inks is elected Governor.  Stop bitching, and take the better result.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on September 14, 2008, 08:47:06 PM
Great, looks like this farce can now get down to business.  Good thing we have an incompetent governor who appointed who a treasonist Frenchie who can't get elected to anything else instead of the Fmr. Gov. who rightfully should have this seat

DWDL, if you care so much, move back to the Mideast.  Otherwise, shut the hell up.
Well as a member of my party it reflects poorly on us that you did this

It will have no effect at all on anything; instead of being in the Assembly, Inks is elected Governor.  Stop bitching, and take the better result.
No, your misconduct reflects poorly on the party, the fact that you appointed a moron is beside the point


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 14, 2008, 08:48:34 PM
Great, looks like this farce can now get down to business.  Good thing we have an incompetent governor who appointed who a treasonist Frenchie who can't get elected to anything else instead of the Fmr. Gov. who rightfully should have this seat

DWDL, if you care so much, move back to the Mideast.  Otherwise, shut the hell up.
Well as a member of my party it reflects poorly on us that you did this

It will have no effect at all on anything; instead of being in the Assembly, Inks is elected Governor.  Stop bitching, and take the better result.
No, your misconduct reflects poorly on the party, the fact that you appointed a moron is beside the point

My conduct will have no effect on the national results for the RPP, and you know it.  However, you've decided to bitch and whine, simply because you dislike me and Hashemite.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Brandon H on September 14, 2008, 10:01:14 PM
Arguing about this in public reflects poorly on the party.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 15, 2008, 07:22:00 AM
Rather than all this squabbling can we get back to the task at hand?

What do you fellows feel should be our first order of business?  Is there any truly pressing need in terms of Mideast governance, should we in fact elect a speaker, or should we focus in on needs of the citizens like tax laws and such?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on September 15, 2008, 11:49:04 AM
I again express my confusion as to why you all would need to elect a Speaker...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on September 15, 2008, 01:09:25 PM
I again express my confusion as to why you all would need to elect a Speaker...

and I express my confusion as to why we apparently need to be elected again.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 17, 2008, 08:16:53 AM
First I think we should deal with this so that it does'nt come up again and I very much like Mikado's proposal on the matter.  First I think we need to have some debate and if there are no objections vote on passage within 48 hours.

Mideast Fair Election Act

Section 1:

In situations where the Governor improperly words or incorrectly opens the voting booth for ballot referenda, constitutional amendments, and elections, the ballot will be shut down immediately by the  Judge of the Mideast Superior Court.  All results and votes cast in that voting booth are null and void.

Section 2:

If a voting booth is closed for improprieties, the Governor shall have one week from the opening of the original booth to open another booth on the measure/election/amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on September 17, 2008, 09:23:12 AM
I see no reason to oppose this legislation, seems like a common sense approach.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on September 17, 2008, 03:49:37 PM
Reworded it a bit, but didn't change the intent.

Mideast Fair Elections Act

Section 1:

In situations where the Governor improperly words or incorrectly opens the voting booth for  referendums, votes on constitutional amendments, and general elections; the ballot will be shut down immediately by the Superior Court Judge. All results and votes cast in that voting booth will thus be considered null and void.

Section 2:

Once a voting booth is closed down, the Governor shall have one week from the opening of the original booth to open another booth.



I most certainly agree with the premises of this personally. But wouldn't it be a good idea to add a clause about a potential scenario in which the Governor is right, and the Judge is wrong?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 17, 2008, 06:13:31 PM
I just have 1 question: Say a Governor is unable to open a booth at midnight; does that mean the booth has to be disqualified, and new election held?  I know that this month's ballot will go up between 10-10:30, but I'll include a clear message that no votes cast before midnight will count; how will that fit in?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 20, 2008, 01:47:35 AM
I just have 1 question: Say a Governor is unable to open a booth at midnight; does that mean the booth has to be disqualified, and new election held?  I know that this month's ballot will go up between 10-10:30, but I'll include a clear message that no votes cast before midnight will count; how will that fit in?

Precident dictates that as an acceptable middle ground.  I know I used it during my term and I believe Inks did as well if I recall correctly.  Just as long as it is clearly stated that the ballot does not officially begin until midnight, no one can be expected to hit 10 o'clock on the dot.

Reworded it a bit, but didn't change the intent.

Mideast Fair Elections Act

Section 1:

In situations where the Governor improperly words or incorrectly opens the voting booth for  referendums, votes on constitutional amendments, and general elections; the ballot will be shut down immediately by the Superior Court Judge. All results and votes cast in that voting booth will thus be considered null and void.

Section 2:

Once a voting booth is closed down, the Governor shall have one week from the opening of the original booth to open another booth.



I most certainly agree with the premises of this personally. But wouldn't it be a good idea to add a clause about a potential scenario in which the Governor is right, and the Judge is wrong?

What sort of clause do you propose?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Mikado on September 21, 2008, 09:08:06 AM
Well...I don't think we need a clause against the Judge making the wrong call.  We can always (if it's a national ballot) appeal to the Supreme Court.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 21, 2008, 10:41:02 PM
I just have 1 question: Say a Governor is unable to open a booth at midnight; does that mean the booth has to be disqualified, and new election held?  I know that this month's ballot will go up between 10-10:30, but I'll include a clear message that no votes cast before midnight will count; how will that fit in?

Precident dictates that as an acceptable middle ground.  I know I used it during my term and I believe Inks did as well if I recall correctly.  Just as long as it is clearly stated that the ballot does not officially begin until midnight, no one can be expected to hit 10 o'clock on the dot.

For the record, the ballot can be opened any time between 12:00 A.M. EST on Thursday and 12:01 A.M. EST on Friday.  So if you can't open it at midnight, you can wait until Thursday evening to open it, and it's still perfectly legal.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 22, 2008, 08:50:01 AM
Resolution on Mideast Assembly Leadership

I: Be it resolved that the Assembly of the Mideast Region will hereafter elect a Speaker of the Assembly. 

II: The Speaker shall be elected at least once during every Assembly session, though if there is a call by two thirds of the assembly or the Speaker resigns there may be a new one elected at an earlier date. 

III:  The Speaker shall be invested with the following powers:

1)  Initiate and direct discussion on any particular bill.

2)  Call for votes on all bills in the Mideast Assembly.

3)  Direct all needed discussion in the Mideast Assembly.

___________________________________________________________________________

Does anyone have any other ideas or suggestions?



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on September 22, 2008, 02:18:26 PM
I support it. I think electing a speaker would make things run more smoothly, and more importantly, increase activity in the Assembly. It's important to have someone regulate the debate and call for votes on important pieces of legislation in order to make sure that we as an assembly do the job for which we have been elected.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 22, 2008, 02:44:47 PM
I say we begin voting on this within twenty four hours and upon passage take nominations and elect our speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on September 22, 2008, 05:21:21 PM
I'm going to laugh if all three people want to be speaker and vote for themselves


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Mikado on September 22, 2008, 09:03:15 PM
Support, but in a three-person legislative body without strong partisan divisions, a leadership contest might be a bit...personal?

This may be interesting.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on September 23, 2008, 04:27:28 AM
Surely the Governer could act as Presiding officer [qm]


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on September 23, 2008, 05:38:59 AM
If he is willing to accept, I hereby nominate HappyWarrior. (assuming, of course, that the suggestion is passed)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 23, 2008, 07:57:04 AM
First I feel we need to have an official binding vote. 

Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on September 23, 2008, 10:33:24 AM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on September 23, 2008, 11:09:46 AM
I had been under the impression that the Lt. Governor was the presiding officer (that was my intention when I proposed the Assembly several months ago), but it appears that provision wasn't included in our Constitution. Blame Xahar.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 23, 2008, 01:04:53 PM
It would seem that with a minimum of a 2/3 majority the measure passes. 

Now we can vote on who we want as our new speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on September 23, 2008, 01:17:17 PM
My nomination stands.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Mikado on September 23, 2008, 03:08:48 PM
I urge the assembly to speedily approve HappyWarrior for Speaker.

(Of course, two out of the three assemblymen support him.)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 23, 2008, 03:19:47 PM
I had introduced an Amendment to make the Lt. Governor presiding officer, but I guess that never went through :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on September 23, 2008, 03:22:28 PM
If nobody objects, we could call a vote now.

I vote HappyWarrior.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on September 23, 2008, 03:25:51 PM
I had introduced an Amendment to make the Lt. Governor presiding officer, but I guess that never went through :P
Well then perhaps this body has a chance at competency


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on September 23, 2008, 03:49:37 PM
I vote for HappyWarrior. I think he'll make a great presiding officer.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on September 23, 2008, 04:44:22 PM
I vote for HappyWarrior. I think he'll make a great presiding officer.

we can save him the trouble of voting for himself then. That's settled. HappyWarrior, congratulations.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 23, 2008, 04:52:18 PM
I had been under the impression that the Lt. Governor was the presiding officer (that was my intention when I proposed the Assembly several months ago), but it appears that provision wasn't included in our Constitution. Blame Xahar.

I decided not to put it in.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 23, 2008, 05:37:02 PM
Thank you everyone.  I am proud to accept the honor as first Speaker of the Mideast Assembly. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Mikado on September 23, 2008, 09:34:43 PM
Congratulations, Mr. Speaker.  You may want to change your display name.

(Much as I like my current one, it's going away on Friday when I take office.)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 24, 2008, 09:26:55 AM
Mideast Fair Election Act

Section 1:

In situations where the Governor improperly words or incorrectly opens the voting booth for ballot referenda, constitutional amendments, and elections, the ballot will be shut down immediately by the  Judge of the Mideast Superior Court.  All results and votes cast in that voting booth are null and void.

Section 2:

If a voting booth is closed for improprieties, the Governor shall have one week from the opening of the original booth to open another booth on the measure/election/amendment.

I am calling for vote on this bill. 

_________________________________________________________________________________

Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on September 24, 2008, 10:39:52 AM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on September 24, 2008, 04:56:20 PM
aye, I guess.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 24, 2008, 07:15:00 PM
The Fair Election Act is hearby declared passed and will be sent to the Governor's desk for signature upon Mikado's taking office.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 24, 2008, 07:15:28 PM
The Fair Election Act is hearby declared passed and will be sent to the Governor's desk for signature upon Mikado's taking office.

Or I could sign it now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 24, 2008, 07:17:02 PM
The Fair Election Act is hearby declared passed and will be sent to the Governor's desk for signature upon Mikado's taking office.

Or I could sign it now.

True lol.  I believe we need to start having that again(at least on extremely important acts.) 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 24, 2008, 07:17:48 PM
Mideast Fair Election Act

Section 1:

In situations where the Governor improperly words or incorrectly opens the voting booth for ballot referenda, constitutional amendments, and elections, the ballot will be shut down immediately by the  Judge of the Mideast Superior Court.  All results and votes cast in that voting booth are null and void.

Section 2:

If a voting booth is closed for improprieties, the Governor shall have one week from the opening of the original booth to open another booth on the measure/election/amendment.

X Governor Benjamin A. Constine


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 24, 2008, 07:29:42 PM
Thank you ben, now does anyone have any new proposed laws?  I am working on a bill for keeping police from behaving as if they are above the law at the moment but am hoping we can get alot of debate going here.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 24, 2008, 07:36:13 PM
Cloning Act of 2008

1)The twenty first initiative, declaring cloning illegal in the Mideast, will hereby be repealed.
2)This will reestablish the legality of the practice and research of cloning in the Mideast Region by private companies and individuals.
3)No government funding will be given to the study or practice of cloning at this point in time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on September 24, 2008, 07:45:22 PM
Not again...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 24, 2008, 07:51:46 PM

At least it gives them something to do.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on September 24, 2008, 07:54:46 PM

You could always try having an original idea, you know. I don't think they've been banned yet.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 24, 2008, 07:57:05 PM


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 25, 2008, 12:17:10 AM
Anyway, is anyone familiar with the way legislation gets passed 'round these parts? Other than me, of course.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 27, 2008, 07:08:58 AM
Anyway, is anyone familiar with the way legislation gets passed 'round these parts? Other than me, of course.

Why are we doing something wrong in that regard?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 27, 2008, 01:47:16 PM
Anyway, is anyone familiar with the way legislation gets passed 'round these parts? Other than me, of course.

Why are we doing something wrong in that regard?

It's all in the Constitution. :)

In other words, yes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 27, 2008, 09:17:36 PM
Anyway, is anyone familiar with the way legislation gets passed 'round these parts? Other than me, of course.

Why are we doing something wrong in that regard?

It's all in the Constitution. :)

In other words, yes.

What are we doing wrong?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Mikado on September 28, 2008, 05:11:19 PM
I hereby submit the Honorable Fmr. Gov. Inks as my nominee for Judge.  I eagerly await his confirmation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 28, 2008, 09:19:50 PM
I hereby submit the Honorable Fmr. Gov. Inks as my nominee for Judge.  I eagerly await his confirmation.

I heartily accept your nomination.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 28, 2008, 09:30:41 PM
I hereby submit the Honorable Fmr. Gov. Inks as my nominee for Judge.  I eagerly await his confirmation.

I support the nomination of Inks as nominee and plan to vote aye.  I believe it would be appropriate as part of the nominating process if there were a 48 hour questioning period, after which I believe we can begin a voting period which will end once all three assemblymen vote.  Of course this will call for a 2/3 vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 28, 2008, 10:37:54 PM
Heh. Turns out Ben needs to second the nomination.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Mikado on September 29, 2008, 08:29:18 PM
Will someone introduce this:

The Business Administration Investment Legislation in Order to Undermine Turmoil (BAILOUT) Act of 2008:

Section 1:  The regional government of the Mideast shall set aside certain funds not to exceed 3% of the Mideastern budget, to be spent at the discretion of the Governor with oversight by the Speaker of the legislature, for the purchase of "toxic" mortgages from investment bankers.  The government reserves the right to alter the terms of mortgages in a reasonable manner in order to make a profit for taxpayers more likely.

Section 2:  Executive compensation, including salaries, bonuses, and stock options, shall not exceed 120 times the compensation package of the lowest-paid employee.  Any pay past that level will be subject to 75% taxation.

Section 3:  Banks registered in the Mideast cannot carry out both banking and investment functions.  This section shall be called the "Restore Glass-Steagall Provision"

Section 4:  The Mideast shall cooperate with any bailout plan passed by the federal government, but will pursue its own recovery plans regardless of the actions of the Atlasian government.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 29, 2008, 09:20:59 PM

I have seconded it, in multiple threads, I believe.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 29, 2008, 09:48:05 PM

Eh, do it officially.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 29, 2008, 09:48:51 PM
I second Inks's nomination, and urge that he be confirmed ASAP.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 29, 2008, 09:52:44 PM
The Business Administration Investment Legislation in Order to Undermine Turmoil (BAILOUT) Act of 2008:

Section 1:  The regional government of the Mideast shall set aside certain funds not to exceed 3% of the Mideastern budget, to be spent at the discretion of the Governor with oversight by the Speaker of the legislature, for the purchase of "toxic" mortgages from investment bankers.  The government reserves the right to alter the terms of mortgages in a reasonable manner in order to make a profit for taxpayers more likely.

Section 2:  Executive compensation, including salaries, bonuses, and stock options, shall not exceed 120 times the compensation package of the lowest-paid employee.  Any pay past that level will be subject to 75% taxation.

Section 3:  Banks registered in the Mideast cannot carry out both banking and investment functions.  This section shall be called the "Restore Glass-Steagall Provision"

Section 4:  The Mideast shall cooperate with any bailout plan passed by the federal government, but will pursue its own recovery plans regardless of the actions of the Atlasian government.
__________________________________________________________________________

Introduced as requested by Governor Mikado.  72 hours for discussion and revision will be allowed before a 24 hour voting period.  I am considering supporting the removal of section three unless barring the Governor giving a good reason for it's inclusion.   I feel allowing banks to invest can only strengthen the economy of the region.  Also only 36 more hours until I call for an up or down vote on Inks' nomination unless someone calls for an immediate one.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on September 30, 2008, 03:06:32 AM
I agree, I won't vote in favor unless Section 3 is eliminated.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on October 01, 2008, 12:00:38 PM
I will now call for a vote on the confirmation of Inks as Mideast Judge

___________________________________________________________________________

Aye

___________________________________________________________________________

On the matter of the Governor's bailout proposal I have come up with the final draft and would like everyones opinion on it.  By the way I also altered section two to 50%, I felt 75% was an outrageous amount:

The Business Administration Investment Legislation in Order to Undermine Turmoil (BAILOUT) Act of 2008:

Section 1:  The regional government of the Mideast shall set aside certain funds not to exceed 3% of the Mideastern budget, to be spent at the discretion of the Governor with oversight by the Speaker of the legislature, for the purchase of "toxic" mortgages from investment bankers.  The government reserves the right to alter the terms of mortgages in a reasonable manner in order to make a profit for taxpayers more likely.

Section 2:  Executive compensation, including salaries, bonuses, and stock options, shall not exceed 120 times the compensation package of the lowest-paid employee.  Any pay past that level will be subject to 50% taxation.


Section 3:  The Mideast shall cooperate with any bailout plan passed by the federal government, but will pursue its own recovery plans regardless of the actions of the Atlasian government.
 
 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on October 01, 2008, 01:10:44 PM
Does the regional government even have that power [qm]. Even if it did, would it really be a good idea to use it [qm].


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on October 01, 2008, 03:45:51 PM
aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on October 01, 2008, 04:13:31 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on October 01, 2008, 06:23:47 PM
Inks.LWC is hearby declared confirmed by the Mideast Assembly.

Now on to the matter at hand.  What does everyone to think of the BAILOUT Act revisions I have proposed?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on October 03, 2008, 12:31:05 AM
In the next 2 weeks, I won't be online too much. I might pop in from time to time to check on everything, but I'm not sure how often I'll manage.

For the bailout proposal of the Mideast....if possible...I'll vote AYE in advance. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on October 03, 2008, 08:05:41 AM
Alright I am now calling for a bailout proposal vote. 

___________________________________________________________________________

Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on October 04, 2008, 03:01:02 PM
If there are no more votes within the next few hours I plan to declare this bill passed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on October 04, 2008, 04:05:07 PM
Nay ftr.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on October 04, 2008, 06:04:19 PM
The measure is passed by a 2-1 margin (So long as no one objects to Franzl's early voting.  If anyone does object let me know and if your objection is sound I will send it to the Lt. Governor for the tie breaking vote.)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Mikado on October 05, 2008, 10:15:21 AM
Assuming there's objection to Franzl's vote:

X The Mikado


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on October 05, 2008, 09:03:21 PM
First I vote too early...and now I'm too late...:)

anyway, I still vote AYE, for what it's worth!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on October 10, 2008, 09:00:19 AM
The measure passes.  Does anyone have any other measures they would like to bring up?  I am still working on my crime bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on October 10, 2008, 02:49:01 PM
How about we lay down procedural rules for the Assembly?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on October 13, 2008, 07:41:06 AM
How about we lay down procedural rules for the Assembly?

Good idea, do you have any suggestions?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Mikado on October 14, 2008, 09:07:07 AM
I was thinking of a non-binding resolution expressing the Mideast's support for maintaining the current structure of the Atlasian government.  With challenges from one side with Lewis' proposal for essentially an Altasian Commune, and challenges from the other with the RPP's intense decentralization, do you guys feel it necessary for the Mideast to proclaim its support of the status quo?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on October 14, 2008, 10:36:49 AM
I was thinking of a non-binding resolution expressing the Mideast's support for maintaining the current structure of the Atlasian government.  With challenges from one side with Lewis' proposal for essentially an Altasian Commune, and challenges from the other with the RPP's intense decentralization, do you guys feel it necessary for the Mideast to proclaim its support of the status quo?

Sounds good to me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on October 15, 2008, 11:11:22 PM
Hashemite is no longer a member. Appoint Inks.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Mikado on October 15, 2008, 11:53:32 PM

But he's Judge!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on October 16, 2008, 08:30:43 AM

Exactly. Ask Peter and MasterJedi.  They would be strong appointments I think.  At least those are my recommendations.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on October 16, 2008, 04:06:29 PM
I was thinking of a non-binding resolution expressing the Mideast's support for maintaining the current structure of the Atlasian government.  With challenges from one side with Lewis' proposal for essentially an Altasian Commune, and challenges from the other with the RPP's intense decentralization, do you guys feel it necessary for the Mideast to proclaim its support of the status quo?
???

The RPP supports the status quo on the setup of regions


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 26, 2008, 04:05:58 PM
Welcome Inks and Peter to the Mideast Assembly...

Considering I'm the only member who has been RE-elected to this great office...I wish get things started as quickly as possible. I urge you both to swear yourselves in as quickly as possible so we can get to work for the people of the Mideast.

Then I wish to determine the Speaker of the Assembly... I hereby announce my candidacy, by the way.

Let the fun begin!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on November 26, 2008, 07:09:33 PM
Welcome Inks and Peter to the Mideast Assembly...

Considering I'm the only member who has been RE-elected to this great office...I wish get things started as quickly as possible. I urge you both to swear yourselves in as quickly as possible so we can get to work for the people of the Mideast.

Then I wish to determine the Speaker of the Assembly... I hereby announce my candidacy, by the way.

Let the fun begin!

I, as the previous speaker, former governor, and current senator of the region, support you in this matter.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 26, 2008, 07:55:55 PM
Welcome Inks and Peter to the Mideast Assembly...

Considering I'm the only member who has been RE-elected to this great office...I wish get things started as quickly as possible. I urge you both to swear yourselves in as quickly as possible so we can get to work for the people of the Mideast.

Then I wish to determine the Speaker of the Assembly... I hereby announce my candidacy, by the way.

Let the fun begin!

As do I, the incumbent Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 27, 2008, 12:37:13 AM
I'm sworn in.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on November 27, 2008, 11:31:08 AM
I am not a candidate for Speaker


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 27, 2008, 11:44:06 AM
Can we go ahead and hold a vote then?

Inks, do you have any wish to be speaker? If not...then we might not need a vote...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 27, 2008, 03:00:22 PM
Can we go ahead and hold a vote then?

Inks, do you have any wish to be speaker? If not...then we might not need a vote...

Who the heck holds session on Thanksgiving?  I support you for speaker.

I make a motion to elect Franzl as Speaker of the Mideast Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 27, 2008, 03:15:44 PM
I apologize....that was kind of rude :)

OK...I call the vote, as Inks has made the motion:

AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 27, 2008, 03:18:32 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 28, 2008, 02:31:57 PM
It's been almost 24 hours....and I guess I can take that as a nomination, with 2 votes, can't I?

Anyway, thank you to both of you.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on November 28, 2008, 02:34:51 PM
I heartily vote to confirm you as Speaker


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 28, 2008, 02:37:50 PM
I heartily vote to confirm you as Speaker

thank you, sir. 3/3 is more heartwarming than 2/3 :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 30, 2008, 01:26:47 PM
This is the first piece of legislation I would like the Assembly to consider:

The Mideast Education Opportunity Act of 2008:
Section I:
1.   Because the number of college graduates in the Mideast has declined in recent years,
2.   And because the economic difficulties have further impacted the ability to pay for college,
3.   The Mideast has resolved to pass legislation that will ameliorate the financial difficulties of paying for college.

Section II:
1.   Beginning with the graduating class of June, 2009, all students who meet a majority of the following requirements:
2.   A four year GPA of at least 3.6,
3.   A median family income of under $125,000 per year,
4.   An SAT score of at least 2,000,
5.   Or an ACT score of at least 30,
6.   Will be provided with a full or partial academic scholarship to any 4 year school in the Mideast.

Section III:
1.   In addition to the requirements set out in Section II, the recipient must sign a pledge to attend, for all 4 years, a school in the Mideast.
2.   If the student chooses, sometime after receiving their scholarship, to attend a school not in the Mideast,
3.   Then the scholarship can be revoked, although it will not necessarily be so.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on November 30, 2008, 01:52:05 PM
2.   A four year GPA of at least 3.6,
4.   An SAT score of at least 2,000,
5.   Or an ACT score of at least 30,

No!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 30, 2008, 01:52:54 PM
I agree with the principle...but a couple of things aren't entirely clear:

a.) where does the money come from? It should be stated in the act how we will fund the project.

b.) Section III/3: The scholarship MUST be revoked. It'd be foolish to pay for a citizen's education in another region.

c.) what criteria do we use to grant these scholarships. II/6 states that students will receive full or partial support....what does the question depend on?

d.) I think the required GPA shouldn't be set in stone like that. We should decide how much money we can spend on the entire project, than we can set a quota based on demand for the scholarships. The required GPA could even be potentially higher....but we need a mechanism to make sure we don't get in way over our heads financially. (the same goes for SAT and ACT scores...I don't think we should set concrete limits.)



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 30, 2008, 02:20:51 PM
a.) where does the money come from? It should be stated in the act how we will fund the project.

My plan is to raise sales and income taxes, as the primary source of funding, and to cut spending on certain domestic projects.

b.) Section III/3: The scholarship MUST be revoked. It'd be foolish to pay for a citizen's education in another region.

If a student is able to get into a school like Harvard, or Yale, or Princeton, I don't want to force them to attend school in the Mideast because they can't afford to go elsewhere.

c.) what criteria do we use to grant these scholarships. II/6 states that students will receive full or partial support....what does the question depend on?

I'd like to have a scale based on grades, family income, test scores, and the schools to which they are applying.

d.) I think the required GPA shouldn't be set in stone like that. We should decide how much money we can spend on the entire project, than we can set a quota based on demand for the scholarships. The required GPA could even be potentially higher....but we need a mechanism to make sure we don't get in way over our heads financially. (the same goes for SAT and ACT scores...I don't think we should set concrete limits.)

I'm perfectly fine with altering the requirements, although I set numbers that were fairly high, so going above that may make it too hard for people to qualify.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 30, 2008, 02:28:14 PM
Well it may very well be incredibly hard to get these scholarships...but we have to be honest that we only have limited financial means...I think it's fiscally irresponsible to guarantee scholarships solely based on concrete grade point averages.

Imagine if....I dunno....15% of students meet every requirement in this amendment, but we can only afford to pay for 8.5%.

We need variable limits....based on supply and demand....to ensure that the program works, in my opinion.


EDIT: Of course that doesn't mean we HAVE to fund exactly 8.5% of students....we do need some sort of absolute minimum grade point average....maybe 3.25 or so....that can be raised according to demand.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 30, 2008, 02:32:55 PM
We need variable limits....based on supply and demand....to ensure that the program works, in my opinion.

Agreed.  I just want to make sure that if somebody gets into a top level school like UVA, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, University of Michigan, etc., that they aren't prevented from going by lack of financial means.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 30, 2008, 02:46:17 PM
to get to the funding aspect....do we even have an official income/sales tax, or do we always just talk in general about "raising or lowering" it?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 30, 2008, 02:49:55 PM
to get to the funding aspect....do we even have an official income/sales tax, or do we always just talk in general about "raising or lowering" it?

From what I can tell, it's the latter.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 30, 2008, 03:22:40 PM
to get to the funding aspect....do we even have an official income/sales tax, or do we always just talk in general about "raising or lowering" it?

From what I can tell, it's the latter.

That makes debate about raising and lowering taxes kind of pointless....but alright :)

Anyway...I would like to add the source of funding to the bill in some way. Then add the part about variable eligibility requirements...and I think we can agree quite quickly on passing the act.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 30, 2008, 03:24:35 PM
Anyway...I would like to add the source of funding to the bill in some way. Then add the part about variable eligibility requirements...and I think we can agree quite quickly on passing the act.

Perfectly fine with me; I'll let you substitute it in as an amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on November 30, 2008, 03:35:44 PM
I would ask that you fellows also take into consideration the movement of the regional capital.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 30, 2008, 03:36:41 PM
Section I/4: The Mideast will fund the above mentioned program by an increase of the regional income tax.

and concerning section 2, I want to either eliminate the concrete limits....or set them quite low in order to allow us to raise them accordingly when appropriate. I'll opt for leaving them out right now:

Section 2: Potential student's eligibility will be determined by their GPA and SAT/ACT scores. The required level will be determined annually based on overall supply and demand of government support. No candidate whose family's yearly income is greater than $125,000 will be considered.




Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2008, 03:37:30 PM
Here's what I'd do with the bill (and most of this is just fixing up the bill - if you want to take out the stuff about GPA and SAT/ACT, that's fine, I just rearranged it so that it flows better as a bill):

This is the first piece of legislation I would like the Assembly to consider:

The Mideast Education Opportunity Act of 2008:
Section I:
1.   Because the number of college graduates in the Mideast has declined in recent years,
2.   And because the economic difficulties have further impacted the ability to pay for college,
3.   The Mideast has resolved to pass legislation that will ameliorate the financial difficulties of paying for college.

Section II:
1.   Beginning with the graduating class of June, 2009, all students who meet a majority of the following requirements will be provided with a full or partial academic scholarship to any 4 year school in the Mideast:
a.   A four year GPA of at least 3.6,
b.   A median family income of under $125,000 per year,
c.   An SAT score of at least 2,000 or an ACT score of at least 30,

Section III:
1.   In addition to the requirements set out in Section II, the recipient must sign a pledge to attend, for all 4 years, a school in the Mideast.
2.   If the student chooses, sometime after receiving their scholarship, to attend a school not in the Mideast, then the scholarship can shall be revoked, although it will not necessarily be so.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 30, 2008, 03:37:45 PM
I would ask that you fellows also take into consideration the movement of the regional capital.

As soon as this legislation is dealt with, I have a bill about the regional capital.

Section I/4: The Mideast will fund the above mentioned program by an increase of the regional income tax.

and concerning section 2, I want to either eliminate the concrete limits....or set them quite low in order to allow us to raise them accordingly when appropriate. I'll opt for leaving them out right now:

Section 2: Potential student's eligibility will be determined by their GPA and SAT/ACT scores. The required level will be determined annually based on overall supply and demand of government support. No candidate whose family's yearly income is greater than $125,000 will be considered.

Both of those are fine with me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2008, 03:38:14 PM
I would ask that you fellows also take into consideration the movement of the regional capital.

I think that should be in our Constitution, not a proposal or a bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 30, 2008, 03:40:42 PM
Here's what I'd do with the bill (and most of this is just fixing up the bill - if you want to take out the stuff about GPA and SAT/ACT, that's fine, I just rearranged it so that it flows better as a bill):

This is the first piece of legislation I would like the Assembly to consider:

The Mideast Education Opportunity Act of 2008:
Section I:
1.   Because the number of college graduates in the Mideast has declined in recent years,
2.   And because the economic difficulties have further impacted the ability to pay for college,
3.   The Mideast has resolved to pass legislation that will ameliorate the financial difficulties of paying for college.

Section II:
1.   Beginning with the graduating class of June, 2009, all students who meet a majority of the following requirements will be provided with a full or partial academic scholarship to any 4 year school in the Mideast:
a.   A four year GPA of at least 3.6,
b.   A median family income of under $125,000 per year,
c.   An SAT score of at least 2,000 or an ACT score of at least 30,

Section III:
1.   In addition to the requirements set out in Section II, the recipient must sign a pledge to attend, for all 4 years, a school in the Mideast.
2.   If the student chooses, sometime after receiving their scholarship, to attend a school not in the Mideast, then the scholarship can shall be revoked, although it will not necessarily be so.

I agree with you, Inks.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on November 30, 2008, 03:54:57 PM
Resolution regarding office holding
*The Mideast Assembly notes that it has 6 positions of government within the Regional Government.
*The Assembly also notes that Mideast citizens hold the Vice Presidency, one Cabinet Secretariate, two Senate seats and one seat on the Supreme Court at present.
*The Assembly thus resolves that because a mere 11 of its 17 total citizens hold governmental office, that it feels compelled to create offices for the remaining six citizens.
*The Assembly hereby directs the Governor to investigate the creation of new offices for these citizens, and to duly appoint them to these offices.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 30, 2008, 03:58:10 PM
Thanks Peter...but I think we should probably finish the education issue first. Do you have an opinion on it?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2008, 04:01:48 PM
Resolution regarding office holding
*The Mideast Assembly notes that it has 6 positions of government within the Regional Government.
*The Assembly also notes that Mideast citizens hold the Vice Presidency, one Cabinet Secretariate, two Senate seats and one seat on the Supreme Court at present.
*The Assembly thus resolves that because a mere 11 of its 17 total citizens hold governmental office, that it feels compelled to create offices for the remaining six citizens.
*The Assembly hereby directs the Governor to investigate the creation of new offices for these citizens, and to duly appoint them to these offices.


Motion to end discusssion and bring to a vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on November 30, 2008, 04:02:15 PM
Absolutely no opinion whatsoever. I have always firmly believed that the only thing that should be discussed in our various talking shops are ways to make the game more unfathomably complicated (i.e. forum affairs) and ways to make us hate each other more (i.e. wedge issues). This is neither.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 30, 2008, 04:05:02 PM
Resolution regarding office holding
*The Mideast Assembly notes that it has 6 positions of government within the Regional Government.
*The Assembly also notes that Mideast citizens hold the Vice Presidency, one Cabinet Secretariate, two Senate seats and one seat on the Supreme Court at present.
*The Assembly thus resolves that because a mere 11 of its 17 total citizens hold governmental office, that it feels compelled to create offices for the remaining six citizens.
*The Assembly hereby directs the Governor to investigate the creation of new offices for these citizens, and to duly appoint them to these offices.


Motion to end discusssion and bring to a vote.

On Peter's bill?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2008, 04:05:53 PM
Resolution regarding office holding
*The Mideast Assembly notes that it has 6 positions of government within the Regional Government.
*The Assembly also notes that Mideast citizens hold the Vice Presidency, one Cabinet Secretariate, two Senate seats and one seat on the Supreme Court at present.
*The Assembly thus resolves that because a mere 11 of its 17 total citizens hold governmental office, that it feels compelled to create offices for the remaining six citizens.
*The Assembly hereby directs the Governor to investigate the creation of new offices for these citizens, and to duly appoint them to these offices.


Motion to end discusssion and bring to a vote.

On Peter's bill?

Yeah.  It's an easy no vote for me that needs no debate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on November 30, 2008, 04:07:20 PM
I object - I deserve the chance to debate the bill on its merits to the citizens of the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 30, 2008, 04:09:28 PM
I also must announce my opposition to your resolution.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2008, 04:10:04 PM
Well, since my motion was objected to, I guess I might as well debate until we have support to take it to a vote.

Why on earth do we need more positions?  Some people just want to be citizens, and if we create positions for everybody, that takes away competition in elections.  If everybody has a position, we'll have less challengers for positions and democracy suffers.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 30, 2008, 04:11:20 PM
I fully agree with Inks for the same reasons.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on November 30, 2008, 04:15:10 PM
Well, since my motion was objected to, I guess I might as well debate until we have support to take it to a vote.

Why on earth do we need more positions?  Some people just want to be citizens, and if we create positions for everybody, that takes away competition in elections.  If everybody has a position, we'll have less challengers for positions and democracy suffers.
Thank you for making my point for me.

My point is that we no longer have competitions for the elections to many of the positions. True, at the federal level, there is still fun to be had, but the plethora of positions at the Regional level now means that I got elected to the Mideast Assembly after Al wrote me in, and then I got a PM asking me to accept my write-in votes. I duly did for a laugh, and then got elected. The limited amount of research I have done indicates we have never had a "contested" election for the Assembly (i.e. no more candidates than posts open)

The fact is that 11 out of 17 citizens holds a position. This is far too many. My resolution is about making a serious point in a comedic way.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2008, 04:17:05 PM
Well, since my motion was objected to, I guess I might as well debate until we have support to take it to a vote.

Why on earth do we need more positions?  Some people just want to be citizens, and if we create positions for everybody, that takes away competition in elections.  If everybody has a position, we'll have less challengers for positions and democracy suffers.
Thank you for making my point for me.

My point is that we no longer have competitions for the elections to many of the positions. True, at the federal level, there is still fun to be had, but the plethora of positions at the Regional level now means that I got elected to the Mideast Assembly after Al wrote me in, and then I got a PM asking me to accept my write-in votes. I duly did for a laugh, and then got elected. The limited amount of research I have done indicates we have never had a "contested" election for the Assembly (i.e. no more candidates than posts open)

The fact is that 11 out of 17 citizens holds a position. This is far too many. My resolution is about making a serious point in a comedic way.

I opposed the creation of the Assembly for that very reason.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on November 30, 2008, 04:18:18 PM
Excellent, I motion to dissolve the Assembly and begin preparations for a return to our previous method of governance.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2008, 04:34:59 PM
Excellent, I motion to dissolve the Assembly and begin preparations for a return to our previous method of governance.

That would have to be an amendment.  Just throwing that out there.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on November 30, 2008, 05:08:44 PM
If we're concerned with the ratio of office holders:citizens, wouldn't a better solution be to get more citizens instead of less office holders?

I realize that's easier said than done, but I don't really see the harm in having the Assembly. The goal was to get more people more involved in the game than just showing up every few months to vote, and I think we've seen some progress on that. This last cycle was sort of an odd fluke due to mistakes made by Fmr. Governor Mikado.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on November 30, 2008, 05:10:49 PM
I guess I agree...now that the assembly exists, I see some potential. It seems like a fun idea...we might as well try it out for a bit?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 30, 2008, 05:12:28 PM
I agree with Meeker; we shouldn't be abolishing offices, we should be trying to entice new residents.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2008, 06:43:15 PM
I agree with Meeker; we shouldn't be abolishing offices, we should be trying to entice new residents.

I agree with Meeker as well.  I was merely pointing out to Peter the fact that we can't just disband the Assembly but it would require an Amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 02, 2008, 06:26:56 PM
So, where are we with the 1st bill?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 02, 2008, 06:38:03 PM

As far as I can tell, we have a compromise ready; we just need an official text to vote on.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 02, 2008, 08:03:05 PM

As far as I can tell, we have a compromise ready; we just need an official text to vote on.

Alright.  I have to do stuff now, but I'll draft it later.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 03, 2008, 07:45:02 AM
The Mideast Education Opportunity Act of 2008:
Section I:
1.   Because the number of college graduates in the Mideast has declined in recent years,
2.   And because the economic difficulties have further impacted the ability to pay for college,
3.   The Mideast has resolved to pass legislation that will ameliorate the financial difficulties of paying for college.
4.             Section I/4: The Mideast will fund the above mentioned program by an increase of the regional income tax.

Section II:
Potential student's eligibility will be determined by their GPA and SAT/ACT scores. The required level will be determined annually based on overall supply and demand of government support. No candidate whose family's yearly income is greater than $125,000 will be considered.

Section III:
1.   In addition to the requirements set out in Section II, the recipient must sign a pledge to attend, for all 4 years, a school in the Mideast.
2.   If the student chooses, sometime after receiving their scholarship, to attend a school not in the Mideast, then the scholarship shall be revoked.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 03, 2008, 07:46:41 AM
That was my understanding of our compromise...and since there has been no debate in the last couple of days, I'd like to call the vote.

Please vote AYE or NAY within the next 24 hours.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 03, 2008, 03:55:40 PM
I'd like to make one amendment.  I'd like to amend Section I. Clause 4 to read:

4.             Section I/4: The Mideast will fund the above mentioned program by an increase of the regional income tax.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 03, 2008, 03:56:51 PM
I'd like to make one amendment.  I'd like to amend Section I. Clause 4 to read:

4.             Section I/4: The Mideast will fund the above mentioned program by an increase of the regional income tax.

I agree to that.

My vote is AYE on the revised proposition.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 03, 2008, 04:49:26 PM
On the revised proposition: AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 04, 2008, 12:08:14 PM
Aye: 2 (Franzl, Inks)
Nay: 0 (-)
not voting: 1 (Peter)


The resolution is approved.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on December 04, 2008, 01:47:28 PM
For the record I would have voted aye - the proposal is itself sound. I am however greatly disappointed that the first piece of legislation we have passed in this session will have had such little impact on the reality of Atlasian life - an internet based elections/political game.

I am happy for my resolution to be brought to a vote at the Speaker's discretion.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 04, 2008, 05:36:07 PM
Resolution regarding office holding
*The Mideast Assembly notes that it has 6 positions of government within the Regional Government.
*The Assembly also notes that Mideast citizens hold the Vice Presidency, one Cabinet Secretariate, two Senate seats and one seat on the Supreme Court at present.
*The Assembly thus resolves that because a mere 11 of its 17 total citizens hold governmental office, that it feels compelled to create offices for the remaining six citizens.
*The Assembly hereby directs the Governor to investigate the creation of new offices for these citizens, and to duly appoint them to these offices.

you mean this resolution?

At Peter's request, please vote AYE or NAY within the next 24 hours.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 04, 2008, 05:38:34 PM
NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 05, 2008, 11:51:15 AM
On the Resolution regarding office holding
NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on December 05, 2008, 04:12:09 PM
Aye. Even though the resolution has failed, I will be proposing legislation in the spirit of its passage.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 05, 2008, 04:59:54 PM
Aye: 1 (Peter)
Nay: 2 (Franzl, Inks)

The resolution has failed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 10, 2008, 03:56:44 PM
I, as speaker, move to protest against Governor Constine's proposal to fly Mideast flags at half-mast due to the alleged death of King of the Bench Press....regardless of whether that death really happened.

This motion is not about whether the above mentioned event actually happened, just whether to keep the Governor from lowering our flags. I urge my colleagues to support this motion.

If true...this would be a tragic event....but we shouldn't be willing to mourn if we are not even sure of the circumstances....and especially considering this person has NO ties to the Mideast.

Please vote! (AYE= order flags to be flown normally. NAY= obey Constine's order to fly them at half-mast for 3 days)

I vote AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 10, 2008, 03:58:52 PM
This man was a former Governor of the Southeast.  His death deserves the flag to be flown at half mast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on December 10, 2008, 04:03:11 PM
This man was a former Governor of the Southeast.  His death deserves the flag to be flown at half mast.

He was a stupid troll. You want to commemorate a troll?

I urge the Assembly to vote Aye to the speaker's resolution.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 10, 2008, 04:05:22 PM
I personally agree with Hashemite, but I would rather base this initiative on KoB's lack of any ties to the region...and of course...the fact that we have no evidence of his death...

Of course, I share your sentiments, Hash :)



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 10, 2008, 04:08:54 PM
It is my view that when a former Governor of any region dies, it should be honored.  I am willing to postpone, and wait for confirmation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on December 10, 2008, 04:18:29 PM
It is my view that when a former Governor of any region dies, it should be honored.  I am willing to postpone, and wait for confirmation.

Even if he was elected in a joke election with one voter, never did anything, and is basically a retarded troll who contributes nothing?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 10, 2008, 08:17:05 PM
On the matter of protesting the lowering of Mideast flags, I vote:

AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 10, 2008, 08:18:24 PM
Fine, the flags won't be lowered.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Mikado on December 10, 2008, 08:55:08 PM
Maybe a motion to raise them extra high would be in order.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on December 11, 2008, 01:04:14 AM
Maybe a motion to raise them extra high would be in order.

Or to raise two in the pinky and one in the stinky.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 11, 2008, 03:20:45 AM
A majority against lowering the flags has been reached. Thank you, Inks.

And thank you Governor for complying with this resolution.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on December 11, 2008, 07:57:38 AM
Maybe a celebration could be held in honour of Kotb's departure?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 11, 2008, 10:05:24 AM
Maybe a celebration could be held in honour of Kotb's departure?

I'll try!

Motion to declare tomorrow, December 12, "bye bye Bench Press" day...

As part of the official celebration, there wil be fireworks in front of the Mideast Capitol!

Please vote!

________________________

AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 12, 2008, 03:28:14 AM
On the declaration of December 12th as "bye bye Bench Press" day:
NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on December 12, 2008, 11:02:40 AM
Nay to this resolution and Aye to the previous resolution


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on December 12, 2008, 11:16:49 AM
Resolution censuring the Governor
Whereas,
1. The Mideast Constitution (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Second_Constitution), Article VI states that:

"2. The Governor shall impliment(sic) all amendments verbatim into the body of the constitution within one week of the passage of the Constitutional Amendment.
"3. Upon completion of the above process, the citizens of the Mideast may inspect the reorganized constitution to analyze the accuracy of the Governor's reorganization process and to make sure that the reorganized constitution carries each and every legal clause that was in the pre-reorganized constitution."


2. The 2nd Amendment to the Mideast Constitution (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=89086.0) was ratified on 2 December 2008
3. And whereas a week has now passed and no announcement of a reorganization/insertion has been forthcoming,

The Mideast Assembly resolves that the Governor, Benconstine, is hereby censured for dereliction of Constitutional Duty.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 12, 2008, 11:25:49 AM
The resolution declaring today to be "bye bye Bench Press Day" has failed 2-1, with Peter and Inks voting against the Speaker's resolution.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 12, 2008, 11:27:57 AM
I agree, Peter. The governor has clearly not done his job, constitutionally speaking.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 12, 2008, 12:06:02 PM
I agree with Peter (and had meant to bring something up earlier, but forgot, so thank you Peter).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 12, 2008, 12:28:38 PM
vote to censure Governor Constine:

AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 12, 2008, 03:49:17 PM
The change has been made, for the record.  I also feel a censure is not necessary.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on December 12, 2008, 05:27:39 PM
I vote Aye on censure.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 12, 2008, 06:11:25 PM
The change has been made, for the record.  I also feel a censure is not necessary.

Well of course you feel that way :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 13, 2008, 04:42:41 AM
The Assembly hereby censures Governor Constine for failing to fulfill his duties.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 13, 2008, 05:09:09 AM
For the record, AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on December 14, 2008, 04:56:17 PM
Petition for a Constitutional Convention anyone?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 14, 2008, 05:45:43 PM
Untill I find out what the purpose of a constitutional convention would be....I must remain opposed to the idea. Sounds like a great way to create lots of chaos.

If any supporters want my support....they should clearly define their motives and goals.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on December 14, 2008, 05:50:43 PM
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=77795.0


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on December 14, 2008, 10:15:55 PM
Besides, chaos is what this game is all about.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 15, 2008, 03:02:59 AM
Right now, I am adamently opposed to a Con Con.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 15, 2008, 03:43:35 AM
Besides, chaos is what this game is all about.

Actually, that's a legitimate position.

I need to think about it more, but I'm starting to like the idea.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 15, 2008, 06:53:35 PM

As am I.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on December 15, 2008, 06:56:50 PM
Typical.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on December 15, 2008, 06:57:20 PM

Why?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 15, 2008, 11:27:01 PM

We just passed a new constitution.  Why do we need a new one?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on December 15, 2008, 11:42:08 PM

You realize this is a federal convention, right?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 15, 2008, 11:47:07 PM

I realize that your CC is.  I thought Hashemite wanted a regional one.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 16, 2008, 12:42:18 AM
Alright, so I'd like to open debate on a federeal constitutional convention (since I'm now pretty sure that's what Hashemite was referring to).  Citizens, supporters, opponents, make your arguments to me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on December 16, 2008, 01:24:27 AM
It'll give us something to do.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 16, 2008, 11:45:24 AM
Alright, so I'd like to open debate on a federeal constitutional convention (since I'm now pretty sure that's what Hashemite was referring to).  Citizens, supporters, opponents, make your arguments to me.

I'm leaning towards supporting the convention. I think Xahar is right. The whole purpose of this game is to encourage active participation and make it fun. How do we do that? By going through a process that makes people interested in Atlasia. I certainly think reforming certain parts of the government would provide a healthy boost to the whole thing.

And it would provide us with a topic to actually discuss and debate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 17, 2008, 12:24:40 AM
I'd like to see at least 2 major things that people want changed in the Constitution before I would decide to vote AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on December 17, 2008, 02:49:48 AM
I want to reorganize regional governments so that there's only three, Lewis and Co. want to abolish regional Senate seats, ilikeverin wants to abolish the federal government, etc.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 17, 2008, 02:51:00 AM
None of those which I'd support.  lol


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on December 17, 2008, 03:19:30 PM

Why do you oppose the first measure?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 17, 2008, 03:47:03 PM

I see no reason to change to 3 regions.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on December 17, 2008, 03:53:52 PM

Hs the ineptitude of your region not told you anything?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 17, 2008, 04:19:58 PM

Our region runs smoothly, thank you.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on December 17, 2008, 04:22:56 PM

ROFL


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on December 17, 2008, 05:07:02 PM
()

New Ad. Put it in your sigs.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 17, 2008, 05:09:14 PM

And if it continues, I'll run for Governor in January.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on December 17, 2008, 05:09:49 PM

Excellent stuff.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 17, 2008, 05:10:33 PM
The Mideast does not run smoothly, lol.

But I'm not sure reducing the number of regions would make regional governments more efficient. And still...just because our state government doesn't work, doesn't mean we should force others to integrate.

Still, these things could be discussed properly in a constitutional convention...and if that's the will of the people, than so be it.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 17, 2008, 05:10:53 PM

The elections ran smoothly enough; my only mistake was forgetting to delete one sentence from the Constitution.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on December 17, 2008, 05:12:47 PM
The Mideast does not run smoothly, lol.

But I'm not sure reducing the number of regions would make regional governments more efficient.
But at least we might have competitive elections instead of a situation where 11 out of 17 registered voters hold office of some kind.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on December 17, 2008, 05:14:17 PM

The elections ran smoothly enough; my only mistake was forgetting to delete one sentence from the Constitution.

Really? I seem to recall they used the wrong voting system.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 17, 2008, 05:16:09 PM
The Mideast does not run smoothly, lol.

But I'm not sure reducing the number of regions would make regional governments more efficient.
But at least we might have competitive elections instead of a situation where 11 out of 17 registered voters hold office of some kind.

Sure, and all these matters could be debated. I think reducing the regions would make things more competititive, and that would lead to more competent leadership.

That's basically why I think the convention is a pretty good idea. Gives everyone a chance to talk about these issues.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 17, 2008, 05:47:49 PM
The Mideast does not run smoothly, lol.

But I'm not sure reducing the number of regions would make regional governments more efficient.
But at least we might have competitive elections instead of a situation where 11 out of 17 registered voters hold office of some kind.

Sure, and all these matters could be debated. I think reducing the regions would make things more competititive, and that would lead to more competent leadership.

That's basically why I think the convention is a pretty good idea. Gives everyone a chance to talk about these issues.

I'm still not convinced that a CC would be good for us.  If a vote was held today, I'd be voting against it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 17, 2008, 05:50:25 PM
The Mideast does not run smoothly, lol.

But I'm not sure reducing the number of regions would make regional governments more efficient.
But at least we might have competitive elections instead of a situation where 11 out of 17 registered voters hold office of some kind.

Sure, and all these matters could be debated. I think reducing the regions would make things more competititive, and that would lead to more competent leadership.

That's basically why I think the convention is a pretty good idea. Gives everyone a chance to talk about these issues.

I'm still not convinced that a CC would be good for us.  If a vote was held today, I'd be voting against it.

I would like some concrete ideas though....would be kind of helpful, exactly what people have in mind in a constitutional convention.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Robespierre's Jaw on December 17, 2008, 05:52:05 PM
Andrew, Franzl, Peter, Mikado, Inks, Al, anyone who can competently run the Mideast for Governor!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on December 17, 2008, 05:53:08 PM
Three regions...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Lief 🗽 on December 17, 2008, 05:54:22 PM
haha

That's divine.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 17, 2008, 05:54:44 PM
Andrew, Franzl, Peter, Mikado, Inks, Al, anyone who can competently run the Mideast for Governor!

The election have been run smoothly in my second term, Rocky; as will the January elections.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 17, 2008, 05:55:44 PM

well yeah, ok, I understand that. Anything else in mind?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 17, 2008, 06:04:15 PM
My big problem with the 3 regions idea is that it may break up a very active region.  If we remove a region, it should be one that isn't active.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 17, 2008, 06:06:51 PM
My big problem with the 3 regions idea is that it may break up a very active region.  If we remove a region, it should be one that isn't active.

and suggestion?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 17, 2008, 06:08:29 PM
My big problem with the 3 regions idea is that it may break up a very active region.  If we remove a region, it should be one that isn't active.

and suggestion?

If we remove a region, I would suggest it be either the Pacific or Midwest, as they seem to be the least active; perhaps cutting down on the number of At-Large Senators, and increasing the frequency of elections.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 17, 2008, 06:12:25 PM
My big problem with the 3 regions idea is that it may break up a very active region.  If we remove a region, it should be one that isn't active.

and suggestion?

If we remove a region, I would suggest it be either the Pacific or Midwest, as they seem to be the least active; perhaps cutting down on the number of At-Large Senators, and increasing the frequency of elections.

that's basically my problem....we need direct authorization from any region we want to integrate with another. I wonder which region would voluntarily agree to be broken up.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on December 17, 2008, 06:13:00 PM
I had a plan in my campaign for VP.

Basically, the dividing lines would be the Mississippi and the Potomac. It'd be merging far more than breaking up.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 17, 2008, 06:31:03 PM
My big problem with the 3 regions idea is that it may break up a very active region.  If we remove a region, it should be one that isn't active.

and suggestion?

If we remove a region, I would suggest it be either the Pacific or Midwest, as they seem to be the least active; perhaps cutting down on the number of At-Large Senators, and increasing the frequency of elections.

that's basically my problem....we need direct authorization from any region we want to integrate with another. I wonder which region would voluntarily agree to be broken up.

We wouldn't need any authorization in a CC.  The Const. would be redrafte and then voted upon.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 17, 2008, 06:32:40 PM
My big problem with the 3 regions idea is that it may break up a very active region.  If we remove a region, it should be one that isn't active.

and suggestion?

If we remove a region, I would suggest it be either the Pacific or Midwest, as they seem to be the least active; perhaps cutting down on the number of At-Large Senators, and increasing the frequency of elections.

that's basically my problem....we need direct authorization from any region we want to integrate with another. I wonder which region would voluntarily agree to be broken up.

We wouldn't need any authorization in a CC.  The Const. would be redrafte and then voted upon.

Right, but apparently 4 regions would have to ratify any decision made by the convention, if my understanding is correct. (which is a good thing, it'll prevent anything completely idiotic from happening.)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 17, 2008, 06:32:58 PM
I posted the following in the thread to recall Benconstine, but since I made the following speech on the floor of the Assembly, I'll also repost it here:

Quote
Assembly member and long time citizen of the Mideast Inks.LWC approaches the podium of the Assembly floor.

Gentlemen of the Assembly, citizens of the Mideast, members of the press and media, thank you for being here today.

Today marks a sad day for both Atlasia as well as this great region.  Benconstine has been my friend and ally for years, which is why news of his voter fraud comes as both a shock and extreme disappointment to me.

Procedurally, a moderator must confirm somewhere in the Atlasia board that Benconstine did in fact have another account, with the name The Populist.  This is necessary to continue the separation between Atlasia and the other forum boards as set down in our Constitution.

I now call on a moderator to do so.

It is with great regret and sadness that I know call for the resignation of Benconstine.  In order to see to it that Ben is removed as quickly as possible, I also hereby sign the proposal for his recall.

Signs proposal:

Inks.LWC

I will now be in the hallway available for any questions from the press.

Leaves the Assembly chambers.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 17, 2008, 06:33:34 PM
My big problem with the 3 regions idea is that it may break up a very active region.  If we remove a region, it should be one that isn't active.

and suggestion?

If we remove a region, I would suggest it be either the Pacific or Midwest, as they seem to be the least active; perhaps cutting down on the number of At-Large Senators, and increasing the frequency of elections.

that's basically my problem....we need direct authorization from any region we want to integrate with another. I wonder which region would voluntarily agree to be broken up.

We wouldn't need any authorization in a CC.  The Const. would be redrafte and then voted upon.

Right, but apparently 4 regions would have to ratify any decision made by the convention, if my understanding is correct. (which is a good thing, it'll prevent anything completely idiotic from happening.)

Right, but it's not specifically asking 2 regions, "Can we merge you?"  Hypothetically, one region could say no.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 17, 2008, 06:36:07 PM
My big problem with the 3 regions idea is that it may break up a very active region.  If we remove a region, it should be one that isn't active.

and suggestion?

If we remove a region, I would suggest it be either the Pacific or Midwest, as they seem to be the least active; perhaps cutting down on the number of At-Large Senators, and increasing the frequency of elections.

that's basically my problem....we need direct authorization from any region we want to integrate with another. I wonder which region would voluntarily agree to be broken up.

We wouldn't need any authorization in a CC.  The Const. would be redrafte and then voted upon.

Right, but apparently 4 regions would have to ratify any decision made by the convention, if my understanding is correct. (which is a good thing, it'll prevent anything completely idiotic from happening.)

Right, but it's not specifically asking 2 regions, "Can we merge you?"  Hypothetically, one region could say no.

yeah, that's true, I suppose.

Don't you think, though, that giving people the chance to vote on it in a constitutional convention would be a net gain in almost any case, though? The end result would be certain to, at the very least, be approved of by the vast majority of Atlasians.

As I've argued before, it would be an attention getter and would hopefully increase general interest.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 17, 2008, 06:40:45 PM
My big problem with the 3 regions idea is that it may break up a very active region.  If we remove a region, it should be one that isn't active.

and suggestion?

If we remove a region, I would suggest it be either the Pacific or Midwest, as they seem to be the least active; perhaps cutting down on the number of At-Large Senators, and increasing the frequency of elections.

that's basically my problem....we need direct authorization from any region we want to integrate with another. I wonder which region would voluntarily agree to be broken up.

We wouldn't need any authorization in a CC.  The Const. would be redrafte and then voted upon.

Right, but apparently 4 regions would have to ratify any decision made by the convention, if my understanding is correct. (which is a good thing, it'll prevent anything completely idiotic from happening.)

Right, but it's not specifically asking 2 regions, "Can we merge you?"  Hypothetically, one region could say no.

yeah, that's true, I suppose.

Don't you think, though, that giving people the chance to vote on it in a constitutional convention would be a net gain in almost any case, though? The end result would be certain to, at the very least, be approved of by the vast majority of Atlasians.

As I've argued before, it would be an attention getter and would hopefully increase general interest.

But is that fair to the merging regions?  What if we merge 2 regions and one of the to-be-merged regions votes against it, but the other 4 vote for it?  That's unfair to the to-be-merged region in my opinion, and considering my stance on regional rights, I cannot vote for something that would allow for such a travesty.  Now, if I could be guaranteed that a scenario like that could not happen, I would be more likely to vote for the CC.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 17, 2008, 06:42:56 PM
My big problem with the 3 regions idea is that it may break up a very active region.  If we remove a region, it should be one that isn't active.

and suggestion?

If we remove a region, I would suggest it be either the Pacific or Midwest, as they seem to be the least active; perhaps cutting down on the number of At-Large Senators, and increasing the frequency of elections.

that's basically my problem....we need direct authorization from any region we want to integrate with another. I wonder which region would voluntarily agree to be broken up.

We wouldn't need any authorization in a CC.  The Const. would be redrafte and then voted upon.

Right, but apparently 4 regions would have to ratify any decision made by the convention, if my understanding is correct. (which is a good thing, it'll prevent anything completely idiotic from happening.)

Right, but it's not specifically asking 2 regions, "Can we merge you?"  Hypothetically, one region could say no.

yeah, that's true, I suppose.

Don't you think, though, that giving people the chance to vote on it in a constitutional convention would be a net gain in almost any case, though? The end result would be certain to, at the very least, be approved of by the vast majority of Atlasians.

As I've argued before, it would be an attention getter and would hopefully increase general interest.

But is that fair to the merging regions?  What if we merge 2 regions and one of the to-be-merged regions votes against it, but the other 4 vote for it?  That's unfair to the to-be-merged region in my opinion, and considering my stance on regional rights, I cannot vote for something that would allow for such a travesty.  Now, if I could be guaranteed that a scenario like that could not happen, I would be more likely to vote for the CC.

Well, I respect that, and I'm still considering it myself. I'm not sure how we could guarantee that something like that wouldn't happen.

It's not even clear at this point how many people even favor the idea of fewer regions. It seems like everyone has different intents and goals going into the possible convention.

That's part of what would makt it fun, though :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on December 17, 2008, 10:51:03 PM
Look at how much debate and activity the Convention has already generated! *winkwinknudgenudge*


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on December 18, 2008, 12:13:32 AM
Can someone introduce an amendment?

Good Government Amendment

The office of Governor is hereby devolved upon Inks.LWC in perpetuity.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 18, 2008, 12:34:52 AM
Can someone introduce an amendment?

Good Government Amendment

The office of Governor is hereby devolved upon Inks.LWC in perpetuity.

Remind me again why you even bother to live somewhere other than the Mideast?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on December 18, 2008, 01:32:58 AM
Can someone introduce an amendment?

Good Government Amendment

The office of Governor is hereby devolved upon Inks.LWC in perpetuity.

Remind me again why you even bother to live somewhere other than the Mideast?

I'd do a competent job as Governor, and we can't have that. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 18, 2008, 02:07:15 AM
Can someone introduce an amendment?

Good Government Amendment

The office of Governor is hereby devolved upon Inks.LWC in perpetuity.

Remind me again why you even bother to live somewhere other than the Mideast?

I'd do a competent job as Governor, and we can't have that. ;)

Of course we can.  We had me, and hopefully in January, we'll have me again.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 20, 2008, 05:03:09 AM
I think debate has been sufficient...unless anybody has something important to say.

I'd like to call a vote on a constitutional convention.

Please vote AYE, NAY or abstain.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 20, 2008, 05:05:38 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: SPC on December 20, 2008, 10:50:30 AM
As a Mideast citizen, I would urge Inks.LWC and Peter to vote AYE on the Constitutional Convention Petition.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on December 20, 2008, 07:29:48 PM
Point of Order: There is no text of a resolution that we are voting on.

I motion the following text be introduced:

The Mideast Assembly refers the matter of whether to petition for a Constitutional Convention to a public vote.

Where it belongs in my opinion.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 20, 2008, 07:39:34 PM
umm...well, yes, you're right, that would be the most fair and democratic way of doing it.

I accept your motion.

Let's vote on the text provided by Peter.

_____________________________________

AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 20, 2008, 11:21:59 PM
On the following matter:

The Mideast Assembly refers the matter of whether to petition for a Constitutional Convention to a public vote.

I vote:

NAY

I would like to call on Governor Afleitch to propose this as a proposition.  In my opinion, this is something that ALL Mideasterners should have a say in.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on December 21, 2008, 12:44:26 AM
Um, I believe that's what this is proposing, Inks.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 21, 2008, 03:32:23 AM
On the following matter:

The Mideast Assembly refers the matter of whether to petition for a Constitutional Convention to a public vote.

I vote:

NAY

I would like to call on Governor Afleitch to propose this as a proposition.  In my opinion, this is something that ALL Mideasterners should have a say in.

Umm..a public vote is exactly what is being suggested in this legislation...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on December 21, 2008, 04:24:03 AM
Does our motto mean All your base are belong to us


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on December 21, 2008, 06:25:56 AM
Aye on my text.

Yes, it does mean that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 21, 2008, 03:22:44 PM
On the following matter:

The Mideast Assembly refers the matter of whether to petition for a Constitutional Convention to a public vote.

I vote:

NAY

I would like to call on Governor Afleitch to propose this as a proposition.  In my opinion, this is something that ALL Mideasterners should have a say in.

Umm..a public vote is exactly what is being suggested in this legislation...

Sorry, I misread that.  However, we cannot authorize a proposition.  Only the Governor can do that, and the people would be voting on whatever we voted on, so the people would be voting on voting on the convention.

We need to introduce legislature that directly petitions for a Constitutional Convention, and then the Governor will put it up as a proposition for the people to vote on.

I hereby introduce legislature that petitions for a Federal Constitutional Convention as follows:

The Mideast Assembly petitions for a federal Constitutional Convention.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 22, 2008, 02:01:54 AM
bump (to keep on 1st page)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on December 22, 2008, 08:12:26 AM
I will put forward a simple Proposition if it speeds things up. Please propose the relevant text of the Proposition and I will formally rubber stamp it in time for the next set of elections.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 22, 2008, 11:41:27 AM
Yes, Governor, that might work better.

And attention friends: I won't be online until the 26th. Just to let you know.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 23, 2008, 04:26:57 PM
We can't just do a proposition.  The Constitution doesn't allow it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on December 24, 2008, 11:05:09 AM
You guys need some kind of proposition where assembly members must serve at least half their term or something.  It seems like you lose another every week, and 2 out of 3 are likely to leave by January


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on December 24, 2008, 03:30:19 PM
You guys need some kind of proposition where assembly members must serve at least half their term or something.  It seems like you lose another every week, and 2 out of 3 are likely to leave by January

     Mideastern Assemblyman does have shockingly high turnover.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 24, 2008, 05:29:37 PM
Due to Franzl's absence, I'm officially the Speaker of the House (we just need somebody to get this done quickly).

I hereby bring the following resolution:

The Mideast Assembly petitions for a federal Constitutional Convention. (sponsored by Inks.LWC)

This will be a 48 hour vote.  Franzl is excused from voting.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 24, 2008, 05:31:17 PM
On the following resolution:

The Mideast Assembly petitions for a federal Constitutional Convention. (sponsored by Inks.LWC)

I vote:

NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on December 24, 2008, 05:43:30 PM
Due to Franzl's absence, I'm officially the Speaker of the House (we just need somebody to get this done quickly).
On what possible grounds?
For the record, I refuse to recognise the validity of this vote. For crying out loud, its Christmas, there's no rush, especially as the petition of the Mideast is not likely to be crucial.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 24, 2008, 05:44:59 PM
Due to Franzl's absence, I'm officially the Speaker of the House (we just need somebody to get this done quickly).
On what possible grounds?
For the record, I refuse to recognise the validity of this vote. For crying out loud, its Christmas, there's no rush, especially as the petition of the Mideast is not likely to be crucial.

Fine, you take the position.  The point is, we've been trying to get this done for over a week now, and it hasn't gotten anywhere close to a public vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on December 24, 2008, 05:53:35 PM
Pipe down or I'll usurp your authority :)

j/k


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 24, 2008, 06:08:54 PM
Peter, do you want to bring my resolution to a vote, this way Afleitch can send it on as a proposition to the people after Christmas?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on December 24, 2008, 06:28:17 PM
There is no procedural resolution allowing either of us to assume the Speaker's Chair. You were so beset on us having a resolution that followed a very exacting formula to avoid a possible breach of the Constitution (and I emphasise possible because I'm not convinced a Court wouldn't have allowed my text), and now we will adhere to a system that does not bypass our own Speaker because he's eating mince pies with his family at Christmas.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 25, 2008, 01:34:31 AM
There is no procedural resolution allowing either of us to assume the Speaker's Chair. You were so beset on us having a resolution that followed a very exacting formula to avoid a possible breach of the Constitution (and I emphasise possible because I'm not convinced a Court wouldn't have allowed my text), and now we will adhere to a system that does not bypass our own Speaker because he's eating mince pies with his family at Christmas.

Technically, there's not resolution that puts into place what the Speaker does.  We simply elected Franzl speaker but gave him no power.  Technically, we never voted on a procedural resolution to establish the position of speaker.  And the position of speaker is nowhere listed in the Constitution.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on December 25, 2008, 01:45:23 PM
There is no procedural resolution allowing either of us to assume the Speaker's Chair. You were so beset on us having a resolution that followed a very exacting formula to avoid a possible breach of the Constitution (and I emphasise possible because I'm not convinced a Court wouldn't have allowed my text), and now we will adhere to a system that does not bypass our own Speaker because he's eating mince pies with his family at Christmas.

Technically, there's not resolution that puts into place what the Speaker does.  We simply elected Franzl speaker but gave him no power.  Technically, we never voted on a procedural resolution to establish the position of speaker.  And the position of speaker is nowhere listed in the Constitution.

Actually we passed a resolution setting out the Powers of the Speaker during the first Assembly.  I believe it was our first act.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 25, 2008, 04:58:12 PM
There is no procedural resolution allowing either of us to assume the Speaker's Chair. You were so beset on us having a resolution that followed a very exacting formula to avoid a possible breach of the Constitution (and I emphasise possible because I'm not convinced a Court wouldn't have allowed my text), and now we will adhere to a system that does not bypass our own Speaker because he's eating mince pies with his family at Christmas.

Technically, there's not resolution that puts into place what the Speaker does.  We simply elected Franzl speaker but gave him no power.  Technically, we never voted on a procedural resolution to establish the position of speaker.  And the position of speaker is nowhere listed in the Constitution.

Actually we passed a resolution setting out the Powers of the Speaker during the first Assembly.  I believe it was our first act.

I missed that and stand corrected.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 26, 2008, 02:27:27 PM
The Mideast Assembly petitions for a federal Constitutional Convention. (sponsored by Inks.LWC)

Please vote AYE, NAY or abstain.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 26, 2008, 05:32:31 PM
On the following resolution:
The Mideast Assembly petitions for a federal Constitutional Convention. (sponsored by Inks.LWC)

I vote: NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 26, 2008, 05:37:51 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on December 26, 2008, 07:44:35 PM
For many, many reasons, Nay.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 26, 2008, 07:47:26 PM
The motion has been defeated.

NAY: 2 (Peter, Inks)
AYE: 1 (Franzl)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 27, 2008, 03:57:22 PM
And now the governor can take it to a vote by the people.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on December 30, 2008, 06:03:47 AM
It has been my great honor and privelege to serve in this legislature, but since I have now been confirmed as Atlasia's Attorney General, I must hereby resign my seat...and my role as Speaker of this great body.

I wish Inks and Peter the best of luck, and hereby request that Governor Afleitch quickly find an appropriate replacement.

Thank you all.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on December 30, 2008, 06:45:50 AM
I beg the Assembly consider this most humble and fitting proposal...

Blagojevich Statue Proposition

1. The Mideast Regional Government shall construct a statue of the Honourable Milorad R. Blagojevich.

2. The statue shall be made from bronze and coated in gold paint.

3. Upon his head, Blagojevich shall wear a crown.

4. In his right hand, a telephone.

5. And in his left, a wad of cash.

6. The statue shall be placed on display somewhere in the city of Chicago.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on December 30, 2008, 06:58:51 AM
I strongly support Al's proposal and urge the Assembly to act on it as quickly as possible.

I'd also like to recommend The Mikado be appointed to fill the vacancy.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on December 30, 2008, 10:25:58 AM
Blagojevich Statue Proposition

1. The Mideast Regional Government shall construct a statue of the Honourable Milorad R. Blagojevich.
2. The statue shall be made from bronze and coated in gold paint.
3. Upon his head, Blagojevich shall wear a crown.
4. In his right hand, a telephone.
5. And in his left, a wad of cash.
6. The statue shall be placed on display somewhere in the city of Chicago.
7. The bill shall be paid for using funds confiscated from Milorad R. Blagojevich previously used to buy a Senate seat.

I introduce the above bill to honour a great Mideasterner


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on December 30, 2008, 10:42:21 AM
Now something a little more serious:

The Mideast Government is far too large, and at the moment it appears that the Governor will not be able to fill the Lieutenant Governorship. If we must keep this wretched Assembly, then I propose the abolition of the Lt Governorship. There is no reason that the Speaker cannot serve all of the functions that the Governor fulfils.

Present Lt Gov jobs:
1. To become Governor if the Governor resigns/recalled
2. To jointly nominate the Judge with the Governor
3. To open voting booths, etc. if the Governor is absent.

I see no conflict if these roles are fulfilled by a legislative officer


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on December 30, 2008, 01:23:55 PM
I agree strongly with Peter's recommendation. The establishment of the Assembly has 'lessened the pool' of willing particiapnts in Mideast government - there is more for an Assembly member to do than a Lt Governor with regards to the day to day running of affairs.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on December 30, 2008, 03:43:26 PM
The original intent was for the Lt. Governor to preside over the Assembly, but it was strangely left out of the Constitution (more Xahar meddling).

Anyways, I support Peter's proposal.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 30, 2008, 07:31:29 PM
We'd need a very vast constitutional amdendment, including amendments to the stuff that I fiddled with under my administration.  While I generally support the idea of what Peter prosposed, I think it needs some tweaking.  I ask that the Assembly hold off on this until I return from vacation.  In the meantime, we'll need a new Speaker/Assemblyman.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on December 30, 2008, 07:47:42 PM
We'd need a very vast constitutional amdendment, including amendments to the stuff that I fiddled with under my administration.  While I generally support the idea of what Peter prosposed, I think it needs some tweaking.  I ask that the Assembly hold off on this until I return from vacation.  In the meantime, we'll need a new Speaker/Assemblyman.

I understand your position. I am inclined to believe that the present Constitution may not be fit for purpose and that has to be adressed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 30, 2008, 08:50:40 PM
We'd need a very vast constitutional amdendment, including amendments to the stuff that I fiddled with under my administration.  While I generally support the idea of what Peter prosposed, I think it needs some tweaking.  I ask that the Assembly hold off on this until I return from vacation.  In the meantime, we'll need a new Speaker/Assemblyman.

I understand your position. I am inclined to believe that the present Constitution may not be fit for purpose and that has to be adressed.

Oh, I totally agree - it really needs amending, but a quick amendment like this would totally undo the 7th amendment of the 1st Const. (which was included in the 2nd Const) - the provision which allowed for the Lt. Gov. to take over after 36 hours of the Govs' absence in an emergency.  We really need an overhaul, but we need to wait until the Assembly is all here (sorry if that sounded redundant, I couldn't tell if you were agreeing or disagreeing with me :P ).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 03, 2009, 09:04:09 PM
I have just registered as a proud resident of the Atlasian state of Virginia, sticking me in the Mideast region. I was wondering if anyone could help me with getting better acquainted with the region and its politics.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 03, 2009, 11:29:53 PM
I'll be running for Mideast Assembly and thought I would ask for any of your thoughts or questions. I would like to breath some life into this region and pass legislation that addresses the clear and present dangers of inactivity and corruption. I bring a fresh and progressive view to Atlasia and I hope to represent you all.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 03, 2009, 11:33:27 PM
It's like a ghost-town here.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 03, 2009, 11:34:16 PM
There's a vacant seat. You can have it.

Well, he'd need to be appointed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 03, 2009, 11:35:32 PM
I guess I will make a formal request of the Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 04, 2009, 03:37:04 AM
I am introducing the following legislature:

Quote
Gustaf and MasterJedi Appreciation Act
Whereas Gustaf and MasterJedi have shown excellent decisions in moderating the Fantasy Elections board,
Be it resolved that the following actions are taken:
1. A statue of Gustaf and a statue of MasterJedi will be erected in the Mideast's capital.
2. January 3rd shall be declared Gustaf and MasterJedi Day.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on January 04, 2009, 07:25:43 AM
I guess I will make a formal request of the Governor.

Which he has done. And he has got it, unless there are any formal objections?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on January 04, 2009, 07:51:44 AM
I strongly approve.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on January 04, 2009, 11:08:23 AM
I am introducing the following legislature:

Quote
Gustaf and MasterJedi Appreciation Act
Whereas Gustaf and MasterJedi have shown excellent decisions in moderating the Fantasy Elections board,
Be it resolved that the following actions are taken:
1. A statue of Gustaf and a statue of MasterJedi will be erected in the Mideast's capital.
2. January 3rd shall be declared Gustaf and MasterJedi Day.

Useless legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 04, 2009, 11:22:01 AM
In case people didn't see this, the Governor introduced this legislation (in his office' thread):

A further proposition my friends :)

Proposition 53: Initiative 31 (The Mideast Carbon Reduction Statute) is hereby repealed. The Mideast Region shall commit itself to achievable carbon reductions in 10 year periods.




Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 04, 2009, 11:35:11 AM
I am introducing the following legislature:

Quote
Gustaf and MasterJedi Appreciation Act
Whereas Gustaf and MasterJedi have shown excellent decisions in moderating the Fantasy Elections board,
Be it resolved that the following actions are taken:
1. A statue of Gustaf and a statue of MasterJedi will be erected in the Mideast's capital.
2. January 3rd shall be declared Gustaf and MasterJedi Day.

Possibly widen the scope to the Troll Resistance Act, including the statues of Gustaf and MasterJedi slashing at an army of trolls and January 3rd as Troll Resistance Day.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 04, 2009, 11:53:12 AM
I am introducing the following legislature:

Quote
Gustaf and MasterJedi Appreciation Act
Whereas Gustaf and MasterJedi have shown excellent decisions in moderating the Fantasy Elections board,
Be it resolved that the following actions are taken:
1. A statue of Gustaf and a statue of MasterJedi will be erected in the Mideast's capital.
2. January 3rd shall be declared Gustaf and MasterJedi Day.

Possibly widen the scope to the Troll Resistance Act, including the statues of Gustaf and MasterJedi slashing at an army of trolls and January 3rd as Troll Resistance Day.

I could go for that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 04, 2009, 09:13:10 PM
Ok so proposing two bills for the Assembly's consideration:

1. Troll Resistance Commemoration Act
Whereas Gustaf, MasterJedi and other brave souls have shown excellent decisions in moderating the Fantasy Elections board and suppressing the troll wave,
Be it resolved that the following actions are taken:
A. A statue of Gustaf and MasterJedi shall be erected in the Mideast's capital with the inscription Viva la resistance!.
B. January 3rd shall be declared Troll Resistance Day.



2. Emergency Proposition Amendment
The following shall be included as a sub-section of the Mideast Constitution Article III, Section 2, Clause 3:
(i) In the event that the Governor finds it necessary to call for an emergency Proposition to be immediately presented before the People, the Governor may do so with the consent of the Lieutenant Governor or a majority vote of the Assembly.
(ii) The voting on emergency Propositions must take place within 72 hours after approval and remain open for 72 hours after opening or until a majority vote of the People has been reached.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 04, 2009, 09:17:37 PM
Ok so proposing two bills for the Assembly's consideration:

1. Troll Resistance Commemoration Act
Whereas Gustaf, MasterJedi and other brave souls have shown excellent decisions in moderating the Fantasy Elections board and suppressing the troll wave,
Be it resolved that the following actions are taken:
A. A statue of Gustaf and MasterJedi shall be erected in the Mideast's capital with the inscription Viva la resistance!.
B. January 3rd shall be declared Troll Resistance Day.



2. Emergency Proposition Amendment
The following shall be included as a sub-section of the Mideast Constitution Article III, Section 2, Clause 3:
(i) In the event that the Governor finds it necessary to call for an emergency Proposition to be immediately presented before the People, the Governor may do so with the consent of the Lieutenant Governor or a majority vote of the Assembly.
(ii) The voting on emergency Propositions must take place within 72 hours after approval and remain open for 72 hours after opening or until a majority vote of the People has been reached.

The first one I support (since it's basically the principle of my earlier legislature).

The amendment is unfortunately out of our hands.  That's something the people have to vote on.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 04, 2009, 09:21:02 PM
So let's have a vote on the Troll Resistance Commemoration Act.

Aye



Don't Amendments have to be proposed by the Governor or Assembly? How do we put it before the people? Voting Booth?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 04, 2009, 09:31:56 PM
So let's have a vote on the Troll Resistance Commemoration Act.

Aye



Don't Amendments have to be proposed by the Governor or Assembly? How do we put it before the people? Voting Booth?

The Speaker has to bring that to a vote.  And Amendments can be proposed by either the Governor or the Assembly, but only the Governor can open the voting booth, so that's really up to the Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 04, 2009, 09:37:51 PM
Okay understood. So I guess we have a formal request of the Speaker to call a vote in the TRA and a request of the Governor to open a booth for the Amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on January 04, 2009, 09:59:51 PM
There isn't a Speaker at the moment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 04, 2009, 10:04:51 PM
*Smacks head on keyboard*

So lets get one. Is it done by the Governor or the Assembly?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on January 04, 2009, 10:42:26 PM
Well Franzl had been doing it since no else wants to. If you want to do it I suspect Inks and Peter would be OK with it.

There just needs to be some sort of vote or agreement.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 04, 2009, 10:59:36 PM
I'll take it if it will help get agendas through. I tried searching the laws and couldn't find anything on the Speaker. Are there any statutes addressing it or is it just making sure that things run smoothly.

So motion to make me Speaker...

Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on January 04, 2009, 11:02:07 PM
I don't there are any statues or guidelines. We just sort of make the rules as needed as we go along here in the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 04, 2009, 11:07:30 PM
I don't there are any statues or guidelines. We just sort of make the rules as needed as we go along here in the Mideast.

And I'm such a micro-manager and always need rules. Will make it work.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Meeker on January 04, 2009, 11:22:37 PM
If you'd like to write some down it'd probably be for the best. We're just all too lazy to.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 04, 2009, 11:23:52 PM
Yeah I'm on break and bored. I'd be happy to shove a whole bunch of laws and amendments through.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 04, 2009, 11:59:26 PM
No offense to Purple State, but I think somebody with a little more Mideastern experience would be better.  I'll take it, but if Peter wants it, Peter, you can have it.

As for how we get a speaker, one must just be nominated and then voted on (that was the first resolution that the Assembly passed - I believe it's on page 2 of this thread, but I'm too lazy to go and quote it).

So, if somebody would like to nominate me, then go ahead, otherwise, I nominate Peter.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 05, 2009, 12:05:41 AM
So nominated.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 05, 2009, 12:10:28 AM
Now we just have to wait for Peter's input.  Actually - we'll just put both to a vote.  I don't care either way, so I'll vote AYE on both.  Peter, if you want the position, just vote NAY on me and AYE on yourself.  I'll bring it to a vote since we don't have a speaker:

On the confirmation of Inks.LWC as Speaker of the Assembly: AYE

On the confirmation of Peter as Speaker of the Assembly: AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 05, 2009, 12:11:37 AM
So because he isn't here yet, Aye to Inks for Speaker.

Now let's get some stuff passed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 05, 2009, 12:14:12 AM
So because he isn't here yet, Aye to Inks for Speaker.

Now let's get some stuff passed.

I'm not going to close the vote until Peter gives input.  He's been a longtime citizen of the region and if he wants the position of Speaker, he can have it.  The legislation can wait until tomorrow.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on January 05, 2009, 02:30:58 PM
An address from the Governor.

Dear friends.

Let me be blunt, as I have said before the Second Constitution of the Mideast is not fit for purpose. I am aware of, support and appreciate the efforts by many in this legislature to make amendments to this constitution. I put to the Assembly that as Governor I do not have confidence in the constitution to hold elections outwith a designated window. Even Article IV is a joke, but I won't comment much more on that rather than it makes me nostalgic for the First Constitution.

What it has led to is fragmented and even unconstitutional governance. I believe that as sticking plasters can't heal a broken leg, neither can a series of amendments fix what needs to be fixed. Besides, a heavily mended constitution bears the hallmarks of it's essential failure as a government and civil document.

Perhaps the time has come for a Third Constitution.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 05, 2009, 02:42:37 PM
Governor, as I said in your office - Amendments have always (at least since I've been a citizen) been opened as necessary, not during the window.  Besides, this region could use a good court case!  But seriously, that precedent has never been challenged, and I see no reason that it would be now.

Furthermore, I STRONGLY oppose a Third Constitution.  Calls for a second constitution were the exact thing that got us in this mess.  I don't know if you remember what happened (I don't think you were quite as involved back then - lucky you), but we called for a constitutional convention only to find me as the only person who kept bumping the thread trying to get things done.  So then the PEOPLE of the Mideast pushed it onto Xahar to do.  And he gave us what we have now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 05, 2009, 06:45:45 PM
If we get enough interest in forming a Third Constitution it is definitely worth consideration. I give you my word I would help considerably to make things work, as I believe the Governor seems like one to be active in such a process. I would support this if it were to be carried out.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 05, 2009, 11:51:44 PM
If we get enough interest in forming a Third Constitution it is definitely worth consideration. I give you my word I would help considerably to make things work, as I believe the Governor seems like one to be active in such a process. I would support this if it were to be carried out.

If I see that actions will actually be carried through, I'll support it.  But we've had promises for action in the past that have often fallen through.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 05, 2009, 11:55:37 PM
If we get enough interest in forming a Third Constitution it is definitely worth consideration. I give you my word I would help considerably to make things work, as I believe the Governor seems like one to be active in such a process. I would support this if it were to be carried out.

If I see that actions will actually be carried through, I'll support it.  But we've had promises for action in the past that have often fallen through.

As I said, I'm bored and am very into the whole government scene. I know I'm new in Atlasia but I bring passion and time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on January 06, 2009, 01:57:08 PM
I apologise for not getting to this earlier - busy couple of days.

I vote in favour of Inks.LWC for the Speakership. I have no particular desire to serve in the Speakership and in addition to the sentiments Inks has already expressed, I would like to say that I am opposed to an Assemblyman who has attained office through appointment from being elevated to the Speakership unless there is no obvious elected choice.

I have been asked to give my input surrounding the current discussion over the Amendment. I tend to lean towards the Governor's position and would be happy to lend help to a Convention process as necessary. Some have called for an immediate set of Amendments to be proposed to the people as soon as possible to rectify certain faults that have been identified - I have to disagree: a more considered approach is needed if we are to avoid patching one problem but creating another. This is not the time for a backroom discussion between 2 or 3 key players, but time for the whole Region to come together.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on January 06, 2009, 01:59:17 PM
I would have supported Inks or Peter (no disrespect to Purple State, though).

Anyway, since Peter has declined....as former speaker, I wish to offer Inks my full support and congratulations.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on January 06, 2009, 02:01:24 PM
Anyway, since Peter has declined....as former speaker, I wish to offer Inks my full support and congratulations.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 06, 2009, 02:40:38 PM
I would have supported Inks or Peter (no disrespect to Purple State, though).

None taken.

I have been asked to give my input surrounding the current discussion over the Amendment. I tend to lean towards the Governor's position and would be happy to lend help to a Convention process as necessary. Some have called for an immediate set of Amendments to be proposed to the people as soon as possible to rectify certain faults that have been identified - I have to disagree: a more considered approach is needed if we are to avoid patching one problem but creating another. This is not the time for a backroom discussion between 2 or 3 key players, but time for the whole Region to come together.

So how do we get there? We should try to avoid having anything more than the January elections under the current Constitution if consensus does, in fact, decide to hold a Third Convention.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 06, 2009, 03:44:02 PM
Due to the fact that we now have at least 3 people committed to getting us a new Constitution, I will support the movement.  However, I do so cautiously - this is not something that we can just start and stop when we get bored.  It must be completed, and completed well, otherwise we'll find ourselves back in this position in another 6 months.

Now, the process for a Constitutional Convention (and this is the same as last time): The Constitution offers no provision for a CC.  This means that we need to simply pass the Third Constitution as an "Amendment" to the 2nd Constitution (for those of you who find this weird sounding, it's what we did when we voted on the 2nd Constitution).  This means that for the 3C to pass, we need a 2/3 majority support of the Constitution/Amendment.

The Assembly could pass legislation allowing for a convention, but we must remember that anything done in that convention is not legally binding.  The only thing that will be legally binding is the vote by the people.  I think we can get this done for the January election, which means it would go into effect AFTER the January election.

So, my question to the Assembly is, how do we want to do this?  Do we want to set up some kind of non-binding convention or do we want to do it some other way?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 06, 2009, 03:46:15 PM
Now, on to official business: I bring the following legislation to a vote:

Quote
1. Troll Resistance Commemoration Act
Whereas Gustaf, MasterJedi and other brave souls have shown excellent decisions in moderating the Fantasy Elections board and suppressing the troll wave,
Be it resolved that the following actions are taken:
A. A statue of Gustaf and MasterJedi shall be erected in the Mideast's capital with the inscription Viva la resistance!.
B. January 3rd shall be declared Troll Resistance Day.

(Sponsor: Purple State)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 06, 2009, 04:13:48 PM
Now, on to official business: I bring the following legislation to a vote:

Quote
1. Troll Resistance Commemoration Act
Whereas Gustaf, MasterJedi and other brave souls have shown excellent decisions in moderating the Fantasy Elections board and suppressing the troll wave,
Be it resolved that the following actions are taken:
A. A statue of Gustaf and MasterJedi shall be erected in the Mideast's capital with the inscription Viva la resistance!.
B. January 3rd shall be declared Troll Resistance Day.

(Sponsor: Purple State)

Aye

Due to the fact that we now have at least 3 people committed to getting us a new Constitution, I will support the movement.  However, I do so cautiously - this is not something that we can just start and stop when we get bored.  It must be completed, and completed well, otherwise we'll find ourselves back in this position in another 6 months.

Now, the process for a Constitutional Convention (and this is the same as last time): The Constitution offers no provision for a CC.  This means that we need to simply pass the Third Constitution as an "Amendment" to the 2nd Constitution (for those of you who find this weird sounding, it's what we did when we voted on the 2nd Constitution).  This means that for the 3C to pass, we need a 2/3 majority support of the Constitution/Amendment.

The Assembly could pass legislation allowing for a convention, but we must remember that anything done in that convention is not legally binding.  The only thing that will be legally binding is the vote by the people.  I think we can get this done for the January election, which means it would go into effect AFTER the January election.

So, my question to the Assembly is, how do we want to do this?  Do we want to set up some kind of non-binding convention or do we want to do it some other way?

It is definitely best, I believe, to start with the non-binding convention to ensure that, if things fall apart (not that they will), there is still a semi-workable Constitution left. It would also, if I understand correctly, allow us to move forward on forming a new Constitution without waiting for a delay on passing an Amendment, meaning we could start immediately.

Just want to state, to ensure that I do not forget later, that I recommend including provisions for calling an official convention in the 3C so that wasteful delays on Amendment voting is not necessary in the future.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 06, 2009, 05:30:53 PM
Now, on to official business: I bring the following legislation to a vote:

Quote
1. Troll Resistance Commemoration Act
Whereas Gustaf, MasterJedi and other brave souls have shown excellent decisions in moderating the Fantasy Elections board and suppressing the troll wave,
Be it resolved that the following actions are taken:
A. A statue of Gustaf and MasterJedi shall be erected in the Mideast's capital with the inscription Viva la resistance!.
B. January 3rd shall be declared Troll Resistance Day.

(Sponsor: Purple State)

Aye

Due to the fact that we now have at least 3 people committed to getting us a new Constitution, I will support the movement.  However, I do so cautiously - this is not something that we can just start and stop when we get bored.  It must be completed, and completed well, otherwise we'll find ourselves back in this position in another 6 months.

Now, the process for a Constitutional Convention (and this is the same as last time): The Constitution offers no provision for a CC.  This means that we need to simply pass the Third Constitution as an "Amendment" to the 2nd Constitution (for those of you who find this weird sounding, it's what we did when we voted on the 2nd Constitution).  This means that for the 3C to pass, we need a 2/3 majority support of the Constitution/Amendment.

The Assembly could pass legislation allowing for a convention, but we must remember that anything done in that convention is not legally binding.  The only thing that will be legally binding is the vote by the people.  I think we can get this done for the January election, which means it would go into effect AFTER the January election.

So, my question to the Assembly is, how do we want to do this?  Do we want to set up some kind of non-binding convention or do we want to do it some other way?

It is definitely best, I believe, to start with the non-binding convention to ensure that, if things fall apart (not that they will), there is still a semi-workable Constitution left. It would also, if I understand correctly, allow us to move forward on forming a new Constitution without waiting for a delay on passing an Amendment, meaning we could start immediately.

Just want to state, to ensure that I do not forget later, that I recommend including provisions for calling an official convention in the 3C so that wasteful delays on Amendment voting is not necessary in the future.

Right - I had meant to say that I wanted that provision in the 3C, but must have forgotten.

Does anybody have ideas on how to go about doing the convention?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on January 06, 2009, 06:00:23 PM
Now, on to official business: I bring the following legislation to a vote:

Quote
1. Troll Resistance Commemoration Act
Whereas Gustaf, MasterJedi and other brave souls have shown excellent decisions in moderating the Fantasy Elections board and suppressing the troll wave,
Be it resolved that the following actions are taken:
A. A statue of Gustaf and MasterJedi shall be erected in the Mideast's capital with the inscription Viva la resistance!.
B. January 3rd shall be declared Troll Resistance Day.

(Sponsor: Purple State)
Nay. Whilst by no means do I denounce their actions at all, I do not feel the complete circumstances surrounding this "War on Trolls" are fully in the light of day yet.

Regarding a 3CC for the Mideast - I am quite happy for it to be an informal non-binding convention. I am also happy for it to be called by resolution of this Assembly, or even by simple acclamation by the Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 06, 2009, 06:02:34 PM
Just laying out some ideas (I've never been here for a Convention so these are just thoughts):

  • Separate thread
  • Setup clear bylaws (some ideas below)
  • Rolling presiding officer to ensure all voices are heard
  • Secretary to take down all motions passed and organize the Constitution in a presentable fashion
  • Any member of the Mideast can be involved (propose ideas) and serve as presiding officer (with some requirement on activity in the Convention to ensure that only the most active can serve)

Most of it should be worked out through the bylaws and guidelines for the Convention. There will need to be provisions for voting on motions as well (must be voted on by at least one-third of all members of the Mideast?, simple majority or two-thirds approval?).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: © tweed on January 06, 2009, 06:09:17 PM
If we get enough interest in forming a Third Constitution it is definitely worth consideration. I give you my word I would help considerably to make things work, as I believe the Governor seems like one to be active in such a process. I would support this if it were to be carried out.

If I see that actions will actually be carried through, I'll support it.  But we've had promises for action in the past that have often fallen through.

As I said, I'm bored and am very into the whole government scene. I know I'm new in Atlasia but I bring passion and time.

'government scene' is quite funny terminology


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 06, 2009, 06:17:09 PM
On the following matter:

Troll Resistance Commemoration Act

I vote: AYE



The Act passes with 2 AYE votes and 1 NAY vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 06, 2009, 06:47:00 PM
Should we begin to construct legislation to call for a 3CC?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 06, 2009, 09:32:24 PM
Should we begin to construct legislation to call for a 3CC?

I'll let you draft it, since you seem pretty eager to do so, and I'll propose any amendments that I think might be helpful after I see your bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 06, 2009, 10:51:06 PM
Mideast Constitutional Convention Bill

Be it resolved that:

A) Upon passage of this bill, a Convention to review and rewrite the Constitution of the Mideast region shall be convened forthwith.
B) Results of said Convention shall hold no legal bearing on the governance of the Mideast without a two-thirds vote in favor of implementation. The vote must be held in an official voting booth for no less than seven days. Additional voting requirements shall be determined by the Convention.
C) The Convention shall be chaired by a presiding officer as determined by a majority vote of the People of the Mideast.
D) All elections required by this law shall require the participation of 50% of all current Mideast residents to be valid.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 07, 2009, 01:11:53 AM
Mideast Constitutional Convention Bill

Be it resolved that:

A) Upon passage of this bill, a Convention to review and rewrite the Constitution of the Mideast region shall be convened forthwith.
B) Results of said Convention shall hold no legal bearing on the governance of the Mideast without a two-thirds vote in favor of implementation. The vote must be held in an official voting booth for no less than seven days. Additional voting requirements shall be determined by the Convention.
C) The Convention shall be chaired by a presiding officer as determined by a majority vote of the People of the Mideast.
D) All elections required by this law shall require the participation of 50% of all current Mideast residents to be valid.

A couple things - section B has some problems.  First, the first sentence isn't really necessary, since it's already in the Constitution, but we can include it for clarification - I just want make sure that people understand that section B is in no way doing anything other than affirming what the Constitution says in Article VI, Section 1, clause 1.

Second, the voting booth would be held open for 3 days, since we don't have the power to dictate how long voting booths are held open for.  However, votes held during the convention (let's say a vote to include ________ in the constitution) could be held open longer, since those votes are non-legally binding and thus are not propositions.

Section C will have to be elaborated in order to give us a process of how to do that.  Can anybody run?  Must they be nominated?  Who opens the booth?

Remember - we have to establish all of this - the Governor can't just open these booths unless we say so in this legislation, because if we assume that he'll open stuff, we're assuming that these are propositions, and then we're doing this unconstitutionally.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 07, 2009, 01:27:01 AM
Here's my proposed changes, which I hope you'll take as friendly amendments.  If not, let me know and I'll open the floor to vote on any amendments which are regarded as not friendly.

Quote
Mideast Constitutional Convention Bill (as amended by Inks.LWC)

Be it resolved that:

A) Upon passage of this bill, a Convention to review and rewrite the Constitution of the Mideast region shall be convened forthwith. All voting citizens of the Mideast can participate in said convention.  Upon convening, members of the convention shall set down rules of order, which will be passed by simple majority of those present at the convention.Are we going to have delegates, or can anybody do anything?  How will we run this?
B) Results of said Convention shall hold no legal bearing on the governance of the Mideast without a two-thirds vote in favor of implementation. The vote must be held in an official voting booth for no less than seven days. Said vote shall be held according to the regulations of Article VI, Section 1, Clause 1 of the current Mideast Constitution.  Additional voting requirements shall be determined by the Convention.  I don't think we can constitutionally add voting requirements on the vote of final passage of the 3C, since it'll have to be passed as an amendment, and is thus regulated under VI, 1, 1.
C) The Convention shall be chaired by a presiding officer as determined by a majority vote of the People of the Mideast.  The Assembly shall elect a chairman from a list of declared candidates.  A candidates thread shall be started by the Speaker of the Assembly.  Upon completion of this vote, the Assembly shall ask the Governor to bring this vote to the consideration of the people of the Mideast by way of proposition. The only other way we can legally elect a chairman is to have the convention open a non-binding booth on it's own, but that would have no legal binding whatsoever.  The fact that we have no provision in the Constitution to do this really limits what we can do.  We can't just demand that the Governor hold an election, and the Governor can't call for an election unless the Assembly first votes on it (unless it's an Amendment).
D) All elections required by this law, with the exception of the election of Chairman of the Convention, shall require the participation of 50% of all current Mideast residents to be valid.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 07, 2009, 01:53:36 AM
Mideast Constitutional Convention Bill

Be it resolved that:

A) Upon passage of this bill, a Convention to review and rewrite the Constitution of the Mideast region shall be convened forthwith. All voting citizens of the Mideast may participate in said Convention.  Upon convening, members of the Convention shall set down rules of order, which will be passed by simple majority of those present at the convention.

B) Results of said Convention shall hold no legal bearing on the governance of the Mideast without a two-thirds vote in favor of implementation. Said vote shall be held according to the regulations of Article VI, Section 1, Clause 1 of the current Mideast Constitution.

C) The Convention shall be chaired by a presiding officer as determined by a majority vote of the People of the Mideast.
           1) Any citizen of the Mideast shall be eligible as a candidate for presiding officer as long as:
                      i) They are eligible to hold office under Atlasian law.
                      ii) Candidacy for the office of presiding officer is supported by no less than two other
                          citizens of the Mideast before the election is held.
           2) Elections for the presiding officer will be held every seven days throughout the duration
               of the Convention. There is no limit on consecutive or total elections to the seat of
               presiding officer.
                      i) Elections for the presiding officer shall always have the option of write-in for
                         voters.
                      ii) In order to write-in a candidate or option, the voter shall not need to explicitly
                          specify that their vote is for a write-in candidate or option.
                      iii) In order for write-in votes for a candidate for election to qualify as legal votes,
                           the person written-in must formally accept the write-in candidacy before the end
                          of voting in the given election.

D) All elections and votes required by this law shall require the participation of 50% of all current Mideast residents to be valid.



That is what I have so far. Because the entire Convention is not actually legally binding the format and procedure does not need to be done through formal means such as a voting booth. All of it can be done within the Convention thread except for the final vote before the people. This way we don't need to avoid any problems with who is allowed to do what in the legal realm of Atlasian or Mideastern governance. It is sort of a fact-finding committee to reform the Constitution. We just need guidelines to make sure the new Constitution is a) an improvement over the current one and b) crafted with the voice of the people to ensure that it passes and serves the constituency.

Regarding delegates vs. anyone, I think it is best to leave it to everyone. There aren't even 20 people in the region and I presume the bylaws that we pass at the start of the Convention will include a provision that would require only 50% of all citizens of the Mideast to be involved in the vote. If it becomes a problem we can always revise the bylaws to create elected delegates that would be voting instead.

Also, in Section B the additional voting requirements was more for in the Convention itself which will be more elaborately and explicitly laid out in the bylaws and procedural rules that will have to be implemented.

So let's keep revising this and see where we can get.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 07, 2009, 02:16:26 AM
That is what I have so far. Because the entire Convention is not actually legally binding the format and procedure does not need to be done through formal means such as a voting booth. All of it can be done within the Convention thread except for the final vote before the people. This way we don't need to avoid any problems with who is allowed to do what in the legal realm of Atlasian or Mideastern governance. It is sort of a fact-finding committee to reform the Constitution. We just need guidelines to make sure the new Constitution is a) an improvement over the current one and b) crafted with the voice of the people to ensure that it passes and serves the constituency.

Right - I had planned on the Governor doing the booth for presiding officer over the convention, but what you just rewrote alleviates the problem of having the Governor open it.  The only question I have for you now is, who will be in charge of the initial election for presiding officer (since the presiding officer can be in charge of further elections once he takes his position).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 07, 2009, 02:22:25 AM
How about the Speaker of the Assembly just to make it quick and easy. After that we can setup bylaws to possibly open other bureaucratic posts like a Secretary to make sure everything is taken down and organized.

So this is what we are looking at:

Mideast Constitutional Convention Bill

Be it resolved that:

A) Upon passage of this bill, a Convention to review and rewrite the Constitution of the Mideast region shall be convened forthwith. All voting citizens of the Mideast may participate in said Convention.  Upon convening, members of the Convention shall set down rules of order, which will be passed by simple majority of those present at the convention.

B) Results of said Convention shall hold no legal bearing on the governance of the Mideast without a two-thirds vote in favor of implementation. Said vote shall be held according to the regulations of Article VI, Section 1, Clause 1 of the current Mideast Constitution.

C) The Convention shall be chaired by a presiding officer as determined by a majority vote of the People of the Mideast. Until such a time as the presiding officer shall be elected, the Convention shall be conducted by the current Speaker of the Assembly as chosen my a majority vote by the Mideast Assembly.
           1) Any citizen of the Mideast shall be eligible as a candidate for presiding officer as long as:
                      i) They are eligible to hold office under Atlasian law.
                      ii) Candidacy for the office of presiding officer is supported by no less than two other
                          citizens of the Mideast before the election is held.
           2) Elections for the presiding officer will be held every seven days throughout the duration
               of the Convention. There is no limit on consecutive or total elections to the seat of
               presiding officer.
                      i) Elections for the presiding officer shall always have the option of write-in for
                         voters.
                      ii) In order to write-in a candidate or option, the voter shall not need to explicitly
                          specify that their vote is for a write-in candidate or option.
                      iii) In order for write-in votes for a candidate for election to qualify as legal votes,
                           the person written-in must formally accept the write-in candidacy before the end
                          of voting in the given election.

D) All elections and votes required by this law shall require the participation of 50% of all current Mideast residents to be valid.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 07, 2009, 02:59:29 AM
How about the Speaker of the Assembly just to make it quick and easy. After that we can setup bylaws to possibly open other bureaucratic posts like a Secretary to make sure everything is taken down and organized.

By "we" do you mean the convention participants?  I'd like to keep the Assembly out of this as much as possible.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Lunar on January 07, 2009, 03:04:56 AM
Now, on to official business: I bring the following legislation to a vote:

Quote
1. Troll Resistance Commemoration Act
Whereas Gustaf, MasterJedi and other brave souls have shown excellent decisions in moderating the Fantasy Elections board and suppressing the troll wave,
Be it resolved that the following actions are taken:
A. A statue of Gustaf and MasterJedi shall be erected in the Mideast's capital with the inscription Viva la resistance!.
B. January 3rd shall be declared Troll Resistance Day.

(Sponsor: Purple State)

Since this was eventually proven fruitless due to the onslaught, I feel this bill should be rethought.  Although I still applaud MasterJedi and Gustaf for their initial and valiant efforts.

hrrhmm


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 07, 2009, 03:14:23 AM
Now, on to official business: I bring the following legislation to a vote:

Quote
1. Troll Resistance Commemoration Act
Whereas Gustaf, MasterJedi and other brave souls have shown excellent decisions in moderating the Fantasy Elections board and suppressing the troll wave,
Be it resolved that the following actions are taken:
A. A statue of Gustaf and MasterJedi shall be erected in the Mideast's capital with the inscription Viva la resistance!.
B. January 3rd shall be declared Troll Resistance Day.

(Sponsor: Purple State)

Since this was eventually proven fruitless due to the onslaught, I feel this bill should be rethought.  Although I still applaud MasterJedi and Gustaf for their initial and valiant efforts.

hrrhmm

The onslaught was impossible to avoid since Dave didn't ban Ogis.  I stand by that legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Lunar on January 07, 2009, 03:22:23 AM
I suppose.

And I wholly admire Gustaf and MasterJedi's efforts.  But to declare a day as "Troll Resistance Day" mere days before one of the worst troll onslaughts seems misplaced.

I'd still advocate something honoring our two moderators (can the president simply give them a medal of honor each?).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 07, 2009, 12:50:28 PM
How about the Speaker of the Assembly just to make it quick and easy. After that we can setup bylaws to possibly open other bureaucratic posts like a Secretary to make sure everything is taken down and organized.

By "we" do you mean the convention participants?  I'd like to keep the Assembly out of this as much as possible.

Yes, sorry for not making that clearer. I meant the entire group participating in the Convention. For all intents and purposes current legal positions in the Mideast are not maintained as part of the Convention. The only carry-over is a brief tenure for the Speaker to hold an election for the presiding officer. After that the Assembly has no significance in the Convention. We are all just citizens there.

I suppose.

And I wholly admire Gustaf and MasterJedi's efforts.  But to declare a day as "Troll Resistance Day" mere days before one of the worst troll onslaughts seems misplaced.

I'd still advocate something honoring our two moderators (can the president simply give them a medal of honor each?).

But the resistance did start to fight back on that day. That upset the balance that had been in place and so the trolls went crazy.

I agree with a presidential medal to the two, but it should be commemorated each year and the resistance should be recognized by every region.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 07, 2009, 12:53:51 PM
I'm happy with the 3C bill as it stands now.  Are we prepared to bring it to a vote?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 07, 2009, 01:01:29 PM
Go for it Mr. Speaker. If it passes do we start right away or must we wait the three days after passage to begin implementation?

I do wish we received more input from the rest of the people of the Mideast. If it is hard to get a quorum present and voting the Convention may crash and burn relatively quickly. Can we assume that people will swing by and cast votes at some point?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 07, 2009, 01:10:47 PM
Go for it Mr. Speaker. If it passes do we start right away or must we wait the three days after passage to begin implementation?

I do wish we received more input from the rest of the people of the Mideast. If it is hard to get a quorum present and voting the Convention may crash and burn relatively quickly. Can we assume that people will swing by and cast votes at some point?

That's a pretty large assumption, but I think we've gotten a lot of participation in the current amendment vote.  However, now that you brought it up again, I think 50% may be a little too high.  Perhaps that should be the initial standard but we'll put in a provision to allow the convention to lower that number to no lower than say, 1/3 of the voters, if necessary?

Sorry - but I have to go do some stuff - I'll be back later to work over the bill some more.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 07, 2009, 01:15:32 PM
Revised and final (?) version:

Mideast Constitutional Convention Bill

Be it resolved that:

A) Upon passage of this bill, a Convention to review and rewrite the Constitution of the Mideast region shall be convened forthwith. All voting citizens of the Mideast may participate in said Convention.  Upon convening, members of the Convention shall set down rules of order, which will be passed by simple majority of those present at the convention.

B) Results of said Convention shall hold no legal bearing on the governance of the Mideast without a two-thirds vote in favor of implementation. Said vote shall be held according to the regulations of Article VI, Section 1, Clause 1 of the current Mideast Constitution.

C) The Convention shall be chaired by a presiding officer as determined by a majority vote of the People of the Mideast. Until such a time as the presiding officer shall be elected, the Convention shall be conducted by the current Speaker of the Assembly as chosen my a majority vote by the Mideast Assembly.
           1) Any citizen of the Mideast shall be eligible as a candidate for presiding officer as long as:
                      i) They are eligible to hold office under Atlasian law.
                      ii) Candidacy for the office of presiding officer is supported by no less than two other
                          citizens of the Mideast before the election is held.
           2) Elections for the presiding officer will be held every seven days throughout the duration
               of the Convention. There is no limit on consecutive or total elections to the seat of
               presiding officer.
                      i) Elections for the presiding officer shall always have the option of write-in for
                         voters.
                      ii) In order to write-in a candidate or option, the voter shall not need to explicitly
                          specify that their vote is for a write-in candidate or option.
                      iii) In order for write-in votes for a candidate for election to qualify as legal votes,
                           the person written-in must formally accept the write-in candidacy before the end
                          of voting in the given election.

D) All elections and votes required by this law shall require the participation of 50% of all Mideast residents at the start of the election or vote to be valid unless otherwise determined by the aforementioned rules of order. The required participation may not be determined to be any less than one-third of all Mideast residents at the start of the election or vote.



No worries. Take your time. It will give people the opportunity to see it and comment as well.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 07, 2009, 02:33:45 PM
OK, a couple more changes I'd like to see:

Quote
Mideast Constitutional Convention Bill

Be it resolved that:

A) Upon passage of this bill, a Convention to review and rewrite the Constitution of the Mideast region shall be convened forthwith. All voting citizens of the Mideast may participate in said Convention.  Upon convening, members of the Convention shall set down rules of order, which will be passed by simple majority of those present at the convention.

B) Results of said Convention shall hold no legal bearing on the governance of the Mideast without a two-thirds vote in favor of implementation. Said vote shall be held according to the regulations of Article VI, Section 1, Clause 1 of the current Mideast Constitution.

C) The Convention shall be chaired by a presiding officer as determined by a majority vote of the People of the Mideast. Until such a time as the presiding officer shall be elected, the Convention shall be conducted by the current Speaker of the Assembly as chosen mby a majority vote by the Mideast Assembly. Just fixing a typo.
           1) Any citizen of the Mideast shall be eligible as a candidate for presiding officer as long as:
                      i) T
they are eligible to hold office under Atlasian law.
                      ii) Candidacy for the office of presiding officer is supported by no less than two other
                          citizens of the Mideast before the election is held.
I see no need for this.  And would it apply to write-in candidates?  I think this just complicates things unnecessarily, and we've never had any qualification like this for other offices before.
           2) Elections for the presiding officer will be held every seven days throughout the duration
               of the Convention. There is no limit on consecutive or total elections to the seat of
               presiding officer.
                      i) Elections for the presiding officer shall always have the option of write-in for
                         voters.
                      ii) In order to write-in a candidate or option, the voter shall not need to explicitly
                          specify that their vote is for a write-in candidate or option.
                      iii) In order for write-in votes for a candidate for election to qualify as legal votes,
                           the person written-in must formally accept the write-in candidacy before the end
                          of voting in the given election.

D) All elections and votes required by this law shall require the participation of 50% of all Mideast residents at the start of the election or vote to be valid unless otherwise determined by the aforementioned rules of order. The required participation may not be determined to be any less than one-third of all Mideast residents at the start of the election or vote.

Other than those 2 things, I think it's good.  If you accept those as friendly amendments, I'll put it up for a vote, otherwise I'll have the Assembly vote on the 2nd amendment (I'm assuming you'll accept the 1st amendment fixing the typo).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 07, 2009, 02:39:02 PM
Accepted as such.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 07, 2009, 03:17:18 PM
I bring the following legislature, sponsored by Purple State, as amended by Inks.LWC, to a vote.  This will be a 48 hour vote:

Quote
Mideast Constitutional Convention Bill

Be it resolved that:

A) Upon passage of this bill, a Convention to review and rewrite the Constitution of the Mideast region shall be convened forthwith. All voting citizens of the Mideast may participate in said Convention.  Upon convening, members of the Convention shall set down rules of order, which will be passed by simple majority of those present at the convention.

B) Results of said Convention shall hold no legal bearing on the governance of the Mideast without a two-thirds vote in favor of implementation. Said vote shall be held according to the regulations of Article VI, Section 1, Clause 1 of the current Mideast Constitution.

C) The Convention shall be chaired by a presiding officer as determined by a majority vote of the People of the Mideast. Until such a time as the presiding officer shall be elected, the Convention shall be conducted by the current Speaker of the Assembly as chosen by a majority vote by the Mideast Assembly.
           1) Any citizen of the Mideast shall be eligible as a candidate for presiding officer as long as they are eligible to hold office under Atlasian law.
           2) Elections for the presiding officer will be held every seven days throughout the duration
               of the Convention. There is no limit on consecutive or total elections to the seat of
               presiding officer.
                      i) Elections for the presiding officer shall always have the option of write-in for
                         voters.
                      ii) In order to write-in a candidate or option, the voter shall not need to explicitly
                          specify that their vote is for a write-in candidate or option.
                      iii) In order for write-in votes for a candidate for election to qualify as legal votes,
                           the person written-in must formally accept the write-in candidacy before the end
                          of voting in the given election.

D) All elections and votes required by this law shall require the participation of 50% of all Mideast residents at the start of the election or vote to be valid unless otherwise determined by the aforementioned rules of order. The required participation may not be determined to be any less than one-third of all Mideast residents at the start of the election or vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 07, 2009, 03:18:14 PM
On the following matter:

Mideast Constitutional Convention Bill

I vote:

AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 07, 2009, 03:19:12 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on January 07, 2009, 04:18:05 PM
I'm not at all keen on the presiding officer electoral procedure, which I will predict now won't be followed in its entirity. Nonetheless, there is nothing highly egregious in it:

AYE on the bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 07, 2009, 04:19:24 PM
The bill passes 3-0.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 07, 2009, 05:48:40 PM
I'm not at all keen on the presiding officer electoral procedure, which I will predict now won't be followed in its entirity. Nonetheless, there is nothing highly egregious in it:

AYE on the bill.

There is definitely some room for latitude and any concerns can be fully addressed in the bylaws that the Convention crafts. And feel free to air any of those concerns now so we can incorporate them as soon as we start.

So now we wait three days until the law goes through?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 07, 2009, 08:18:35 PM
I'm not at all keen on the presiding officer electoral procedure, which I will predict now won't be followed in its entirity. Nonetheless, there is nothing highly egregious in it:

AYE on the bill.

There is definitely some room for latitude and any concerns can be fully addressed in the bylaws that the Convention crafts. And feel free to air any of those concerns now so we can incorporate them as soon as we start.

So now we wait three days until the law goes through?

That is correct.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 07, 2009, 08:24:33 PM
I'm not at all keen on the presiding officer electoral procedure, which I will predict now won't be followed in its entirity. Nonetheless, there is nothing highly egregious in it:

AYE on the bill.

There is definitely some room for latitude and any concerns can be fully addressed in the bylaws that the Convention crafts. And feel free to air any of those concerns now so we can incorporate them as soon as we start.

So now we wait three days until the law goes through?

That is correct.

This is why we need a new Constitution. At least to provide the Governor the opportunity to waive that and have a law go into effect immediately.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 13, 2009, 03:24:41 PM
I think it's clear that we aren't going to get the participation that we'd hoped for in the 3CC.

We can't even get the rules of order passed.  I propose the following bill and bring it to a vote immediately.  I'd make it 1/3 of our citizens, but right now, we're stuck at 5 votes to amend the Rules of Order.  There's no way we'll be able to consistently get 7 votes, in my opinion, and 5 is good enough.  We just need to get this started:

Quote
Mideast Constitutional Convention Participation Act

Be it resolved that:

Section D) of the Mideast Constitutional convention Bill be amended to read:

D) All elections and votes required by this law shall require the participation of 25% of all Mideast residents at the start of the election or vote to be valid unless otherwise determined by the aforementioned rules of order.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 13, 2009, 03:38:38 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 14, 2009, 10:14:53 PM
For the record, this is a 48 hour vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on January 15, 2009, 04:04:35 PM
Whilst technically out of time, I think, Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 15, 2009, 04:20:16 PM
And now we wait 3 days for this to go through. Bore.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 16, 2009, 03:00:32 PM
The motion passes.  We wait 3 days from 3:34 yesterday.  So, it'll go into effect on the 18th at 3:34 P.M. EST.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 17, 2009, 11:24:58 PM
Will the Convention motions go through as soon as this passes?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 18, 2009, 04:43:28 PM
I bring the following legislation to the floor for discussion:

Quote
An Act to Amend the "Mideast Gubernatorial Election Statute"
Section 1 of the Mideast Gubernatorial Election Statute (http://www.uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Gubernatorial_Election_Statute) is hereby removed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on January 18, 2009, 04:45:45 PM
I bring the following legislation to the floor for discussion:

Quote
An Act to Amend the "Mideast Gubernatorial Election Statute"
Section 1 of the Mideast Gubernatorial Election Statute (http://www.uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Gubernatorial_Election_Statute) is hereby removed.
Whilst I agree that an amendment to the Law is needed, I think rewriting our Laws to be more focused on the intent of the voter is more desirable to throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Would you like me to write something?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 18, 2009, 04:48:13 PM
I bring the following legislation to the floor for discussion:

Quote
An Act to Amend the "Mideast Gubernatorial Election Statute"
Section 1 of the Mideast Gubernatorial Election Statute (http://www.uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Gubernatorial_Election_Statute) is hereby removed.
Whilst I agree that an amendment to the Law is needed, I think rewriting our Laws to be more focused on the intent of the voter is more desirable to throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Would you like me to write something?

Go ahead.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on January 18, 2009, 04:53:22 PM
It is clear that aspects of the statute have not been followed for over a year now and that this has been relatively unintentional. However it is still an unhelpful position to be in and is not excusable. I would support an amendment over an EDIT: repeal


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on January 18, 2009, 05:03:09 PM
Voting Intent Statute
Section 1
1. In certifying the result the voting booth administrator shall list all those votes which he or she has discounted, and the reasons for these votes being discounted. The voting booth administrator shall discount all votes that are invalid under the law, and shall only count those remaining votes for which he or she is able to make a reasonable determination as to the intent of the voter subject to such conditions as imposed by the rest of this Act.
2. Where a voter lists all candidates running in an election and places some mark to the right or left of one and only one of the candidates or tickets, then the vote shall be construed to be for that candidate or ticket.
3. In elections allowing preferencing of candidates, if no numbering of the preferences is stated, and no other marks signalling intent are made, then the candidate at the top of the list shall be presumed to be the first preference, the candidate on the second line of the list shall be presumed to be the second preference, and so on.
4. The enumeration of certain reasonable determinations of intent in this section shall not be construed to be exclusive.

Section 2
The following statutes and sections of statutes shall expire 2 months from the date of passage of this statute:
*Mideast Election and Vote Regulations Statute
*Mideast Gubernatorial Election Statute
*Mideast Second Election and Vote Regulations Statute
*Section 1 of this Act

The intent of Section 2 is to force the reconsideration of all Mideast electoral law, and thus ensure that it is fully up to date with our present circumstances.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on January 18, 2009, 05:05:29 PM
Seems both fair and immediate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 18, 2009, 08:58:42 PM
What happens once everything has expired? We rewrite the law completely?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 18, 2009, 11:07:58 PM
What happens once everything has expired? We rewrite the law completely?

Well, the idea would be to rewrite it before it expires so  that we have something to implement when they do expire.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 18, 2009, 11:19:19 PM
Hopefully we will have a new Constitution by that time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 18, 2009, 11:48:22 PM
Hopefully we will have a new Constitution by that time.

This was stuff was intentionally left out of the Constittion, so that the people could change it with a simple majority.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on January 19, 2009, 02:46:57 PM
What happens once everything has expired? We rewrite the law completely?
Well, the idea would be to rewrite it before it expires so  that we have something to implement when they do expire.
In addition to what Inks has said - I feel that one of the problems with our electoral laws is that whilst we all recognise there are niggling issues with the Laws, it is often the case that we do not get around to actually doing anything about them because the issue lapses within a week or two of the crisis. This bill will keep the issue on the agenda, rather than being a plaster that will eventually fall off. I also feel strongly that distilling all electoral law into one statute would aid voting booth admins because it would give them one point of reference as opposed to 4 or 5.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 19, 2009, 03:13:35 PM
It seems as if debate on the legislature itself is over (or never began), so I am ready to bring it to a vote.  This will be a 48 hour vote:

Quote
Voting Intent Statute (Sponsor: Peter)
Section 1
1. In certifying the result the voting booth administrator shall list all those votes which he or she has discounted, and the reasons for these votes being discounted. The voting booth administrator shall discount all votes that are invalid under the law, and shall only count those remaining votes for which he or she is able to make a reasonable determination as to the intent of the voter subject to such conditions as imposed by the rest of this Act.
2. Where a voter lists all candidates running in an election and places some mark to the right or left of one and only one of the candidates or tickets, then the vote shall be construed to be for that candidate or ticket.
3. In elections allowing preferencing of candidates, if no numbering of the preferences is stated, and no other marks signalling intent are made, then the candidate at the top of the list shall be presumed to be the first preference, the candidate on the second line of the list shall be presumed to be the second preference, and so on.
4. The enumeration of certain reasonable determinations of intent in this section shall not be construed to be exclusive.

Section 2
The following statutes and sections of statutes shall expire 2 months from the date of passage of this statute:
*Mideast Election and Vote Regulations Statute
*Mideast Gubernatorial Election Statute
*Mideast Second Election and Vote Regulations Statute
*Section 1 of this Act


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on January 19, 2009, 03:52:38 PM
aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 19, 2009, 05:46:51 PM
Aye

I guess we should craft a new bill only after this whole mess is sorted out. Starting now and dealing with people leaving and joining the Assembly would only cause confusion and delays.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 20, 2009, 05:55:50 PM
Voting Intent Statute (Sponsor: Peter)

AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 20, 2009, 06:29:28 PM
This is not retroactive, correct?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 20, 2009, 06:48:13 PM

Of course it isn't.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on January 24, 2009, 08:45:14 AM
I hereby nominate Purple State to be Speaker of this Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 24, 2009, 06:29:24 PM
I thank you for the nomination Peter. I do think we should find a third Assembly member before we get to formal motions, etc. If we don't get one soon I will be happy to accept the Speakership and get to work.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 24, 2009, 06:35:01 PM
Any suggestions for a replacement?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on January 24, 2009, 06:41:08 PM

A public request for people to express andinterest may be helpful. While I can see the point in trying to offer the position to a voter as opposed to someone who did not cast a ballot IIRC, only two voters (Ben and officepark) who voted in the recent election do not currently hold office.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 24, 2009, 06:41:38 PM
I had been hoping that Afleitch wouldn't take Lt. Gov. Even if we need to stick someone, anyone in that spot to replace him, I'd rather someone that active be in a position to work for the Mideast. Otherwise, Hashemite would be a good AM.

After that, I really don't know. If we can't get anyone I guess Peter and I can do it, but I would like someone to come forward.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 25, 2009, 03:50:44 AM

A public request for people to express andinterest may be helpful. While I can see the point in trying to offer the position to a voter as opposed to someone who did not cast a ballot IIRC, only two voters (Ben and officepark) who voted in the recent election do not currently hold office.

I made a public request in my office - I'll create a different thread so I maxamize attention though.

Also, Ben can't hold office.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on January 25, 2009, 09:23:49 AM

A public request for people to express andinterest may be helpful. While I can see the point in trying to offer the position to a voter as opposed to someone who did not cast a ballot IIRC, only two voters (Ben and officepark) who voted in the recent election do not currently hold office.

I made a public request in my office - I'll create a different thread so I maxamize attention though.

Also, Ben can't hold office.

Yes I know Ban can't hold office :) I'm well aware he can't hold office ;D And the jury is still out on officepark. Hence the likelyhood of nominating a non-voter even though it may be preferrable not to.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on January 25, 2009, 10:08:38 AM
The thought of a kook like officepark holding an Assembly seat scares me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 25, 2009, 12:08:32 PM
The thought of a kook like officepark holding an Assembly seat scares me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 26, 2009, 02:47:35 PM
I would like to welcome Afleitch to the Assembly as our newest member.

Peter, does your motion still stand?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on January 26, 2009, 03:09:13 PM
My congratulations to the new Assembly, and especially its newly appointed member.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on January 27, 2009, 02:05:11 PM
I would like to welcome Afleitch to the Assembly as our newest member.

Peter, does your motion still stand?
Absolutely. I have no interest in the role and I dislike nominating appointed members to the post of Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 28, 2009, 12:14:59 AM
Alright, I will accept your nomination.

I think the first and most immediate action that should be taken is a revision of our electoral laws.

Here are the 3 current laws governing elections:

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Election_and_Vote_Regulations_Statute

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Gubernatorial_Election_Statute

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Second_Election_and_Vote_Regulations_Statute

So how do we want to combine these into a coherent piece. Do we want to continue the "preferential" method of the Mideast Gubernatorial Election Statute? There is also the superfluous Section 6 of the Mideast Election and Vote Regulations Statute and all the consolidation that must be done between that and the Second one.

First, however, I think it is important to decide how we want votes to be tallied and counted. Straight votes or preferential choices?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on January 28, 2009, 08:09:26 AM
While in small races like this, with one or two candidates, preferential voting doesn't have an impact. However it is preferrable to straight voting. Secondly, any changes to our election procedure should preferrably reflect federal voting procedures.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 28, 2009, 04:16:46 PM
Section 1: Votes

1. In their vote in the Elections for public officers in the Mideast, each voter shall list some, none, or all of the candidates in the voter's order of preference for them.
2. If no numbering of the preferences is stated, then the candidate at the top of the list shall be presumed to be the first preference, the candidate on the second line of the list shall be presumed to be the second preference, and so on.
3. A voter may cast a write-in vote in any election, except a runoff election or a vote for Propositions, Initiatives, Recalls and Constitutional Amendments.
4. In order to write-in a candidate, the voter shall not be required to explicitly specify that his or her vote is for a write-in candidate.
5. In order for write-in votes for a candidate to qualify as countable votes, the person written-in must formally accept the write-in candidacy before the end of voting in the given election.
6. A voter may vote for "None of the Above" in any election in which a write-in is allowed. Any voter who votes for "None of the Above" may do so only as a first preference; any and all lower preferences of the voter shall be ignored.
7. If a voter shall explicitly cast a vote in a race for which they are not qualified to vote, then the vote in that race shall be considered invalid.
8. The form of the vote for all Propositions, Initiatives, Recalls and Constitutional Amendments shall be aye/nay/abstain.


Section 2: Determination of the Winner

1. If any candidate shall gain the greatest number of highest preference votes, then that candidate shall be declared the winner of the election. In Assembly elections, the candidate that receives a plurality of highest preference votes shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes and second preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first seat shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes, second preference votes, and third preference and that has not already been elected to the first two seats votes shall be elected to the Assembly.
2. If two or more candidates are tied in the proper votes needed for election, the following procedure shall be used:
a. If the race shall be for the office of Governor, a run-off election shall be held.
b. If the race shall be for Assembly candidates with the greatest number of highest preference votes, both candidates shall win election to the Assembly. In such a case, the third seat shall be filled by the the candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes and second preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first two seats.
c. If the race shall be for Assembly candidates with the greatest number of highest preference and second preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first seat, both candidates shall win election to the Assembly. In such a case, the third seat will have been filled and the candidate with the greatest number of highest preference, second preference, and third preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first three seats shall not be elected.
d. If the race shall be for Assembly candidates with the greatest number of highest preference, second preference, and third preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first two seats or candidates with the great number of highest preference and second preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first two seats, as made possible by Section 2, Clause 2, Sub clause b. of this document, a run-off election shall be held.

Section 3: Run-off Elections

If all remaining candidates shall have the same number of votes for a given position, then the following procedure shall be used to break the tie:

1. Run-off elections shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the first Thursday after the initial election and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after the beginning.
2. Those candidates who have tied shall be automatically entered onto the ballot. No other candidacies shall be allowed.
3. Voters shall only be able to cast a vote for one candidate.
4. If any candidate shall gain a majority of the votes cast, then he shall be declared winner.
5. In the event that litigation is pending before the Mideast Superior Court at the time a run-off is due to be held, the Court may delay the run-off in a specified manner if it thinks the result of such litigation would have a substantive impact on the run-off.

Section 4: Tied Run-off Elections

If the Run-off Election procedure specified in section 4 results in a tie, then:

1. If the race shall be for Governor, the Assembly shall have the power to break the tie by a majority vote.
2. If the race shall be for the Assembly, another run-off shall be held until a candidate is elected.

Section 5: None of the Above

If, in an election, the None of the Above option shall have gained more votes than each candidate, then a new election shall be held under the following procedure

1. The new election shall be held between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the second Thursday after the initial election and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter at 1800 Eastern Standard Time on the second Thursday after the election, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after the beginning.
2. None of the candidates defeated by the None of the Above option in the original may be declared candidates in the new election. However, a voter may still write-in any such candidate.
3. The candidacy declaration deadline for the new election shall end at the moment the Voting Booth for that election has been opened.

Section 6: Absentee Voting

1. As mandated by Article IV of the Mideast Constitution, all voters shall have the right to cast absentee votes as mandated by Sections 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 of that Article.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 28, 2009, 04:17:53 PM
Section 7: Administration of Voting Booths

1. The administrator of a voting booth shall be free to design the ballot as he or she sees fit, as long as the content of the ballot is clear and unambiguous.
2. The administrator of a voting booth shall post links to all relevant statute regarding electoral law of the Mideast on the ballot.

Section 8: Administration of Initiative and Recall Petitions

1. There shall be no more than one initiative or recall petition contained in each thread.
2. Any thread in which an initiative or recall petition is initiated shall be clearly titled as such in the Subject line.
3. The text of the initiative or the intent of the recall shall be clear and unambiguous else it shall not be valid.
4. The Governor or Speaker of the Assembly must formally recognize an initiative or recall petition as soon as is reasonably possible unless they feel that any of the aforementioned provisions have not been satisfied. In the event that he chooses to decline recognition of the initiative or recall petition, he must formally state in the same thread as the initiative or recall petition his reasons for doing so.
5. The Governor or Speaker of the Assembly must formally state when an initiative or recall petition has gained the necessary support to be voted upon.
6. The author of an initiative or recall petition may withdraw their petition at any time before it has gained sufficient signatures to be voted upon.
7. A withdrawn petition may be adopted by another person with all its signatures still valid, though the original date of proposal shall remain unchanged.
8. A signatory to an initiative or recall petition may withdraw their signature at any time before the petition has gained sufficient signatures to be voted upon.
9. If an initiative is amended by the author after its petition has gained signatories, then the Governor or Lieutenant Governor may require these signatories to clarify whether their signature remains in effect for the amended version.

Section 9: Certification of Election Results

1. When the voting period has expired, the administrator of the voting booth or a moderator of the Forum shall lock the thread containing the voting booth. The thread shall not be unlocked except to enter the official certification of the election result onto the thread.
2. Certification of the election result shall be conducted as soon as reasonably possible after the voting booth shall have closed by the administrator of the voting booth. If the administrator of the voting booth shall not be available to conduct such certification, then he or she shall designate a member of the Assembly to carry out such certification in his stead.
3. In certifying the result the administrator shall list all those votes which he or she has discounted, and the reasons for these votes being discounted. The voting booth administrator shall discount all votes that are invalid under the law, and shall only count those remaining votes for which he or she is able to make a reasonable determination as to the intent of the voter subject to such conditions as imposed by Section 9 of this Act.
4. The certifying officer may post provisional certifications of the election results, but these shall be of no legal effect.
5. Once the certifying officer is content that he has a full and complete certification he shall post an official certification which shall be final in all respects, unless a Court order shall instruct otherwise.
6. Should the Governor wish to exercise his power of veto upon an initiative for statute, he must state this clearly in the voting booth after the vote has been officially certified, and must do so within 4 days of the closure of the period of voting. This Clause shall only go into effect if such power is expressly allowed by the Constitution of the Mideast.

Section 10: Reasonable Determination of Intent

1. Where a voter lists all candidates running and places some mark to the right or left of one and only one of the candidates, then the vote shall be construed to be for that candidate.
2. The enumeration of certain reasonable determinations of intent in this section shall not be construed to be exclusive.

Section 11: Concession of Victory

1. If a candidate shall concede his or her victory of an election after the certification of the election result, then the candidate with the next greatest number of specified votes in that election shall then be declared victor.
2. If a victor who has conceded shall wish to retract his or her concession, then he or she may only do so with the permission of the newly declared victor.
3. If an election shall produce a tie that requires a run-off election, any candidate may decline to go forward to the run-off. If such actions shall leave only one candidate in the run-off, then that candidate shall be declared the victor.
4. Concessions made before the certification of election results, or on or after the date on which the newly elected official is due to be sworn in, are of no legal effect whatsoever.

Section 12: Election and Vote Disputes

1. Should any Mideast voter or candidate possessing standing to sue decide to contest the result of an election or vote they shall be able to file a lawsuit in the Superior Court within seven days of certification of that election.

Section 13: Repealed Legislation

The following legislation is hereby repealed upon passage of this:

Mideast Election and Vote Regulations Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Election_and_Vote_Regulations_Statute)
Mideast Gubernatorial Election Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Gubernatorial_Election_Statute)
Mideast Second Election and Vote Regulations Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Second_Election_and_Vote_Regulations_Statute)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 28, 2009, 04:19:24 PM
Thoughts about that for a consolidated election policy for the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 28, 2009, 11:24:38 PM
Section 1: Votes
8. The form of the vote (e.g. via approval voting, via preferential voting, via aye/nay/abstain) for Propositions and Initiatives on Statute shall be determined by the author of the Proposition or Initiative and shall be unambiguously stated with the initial proposal of the Proposition or Initiative on Statute.

How can a prop/Iniative be preferential?  Also, we don't have  authors of propositions.  The Governor calls for propositions if he wants after they fail/pass the Assembly.  I say just make it aye/nay/abstain like clause 9.



That's all I have time for now - I'll look at the rest tomorrow.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 29, 2009, 03:51:22 PM
Fixed that by consolidating it with Clause 9. It would be great if you could all review it. It is probably the largest, but most important piece of legislation we can pass to just clarify everything about elections and the functioning of the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on January 29, 2009, 04:36:55 PM
I have an issue with Section 1:2 as it copies the language of the current preferential voting system which is legally shaky (but has not yet been tested). Was something not drafted to replace that?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 29, 2009, 08:25:09 PM
Section 4: Tied Run-off Elections
2. If the race shall be for the Assembly, the Governor shall have the power to break the tie.

I have a problem with this.  It gives the Governor 2 votes.  Simply run the election again, in my opinion.  Eventually somebody will be pursuaded to come and vote who didn't before or someone will fail to vote.

Quote
Section 5: None of the Above

If, in an election, the None of the Above option shall have gained more votes than each candidate, then a new election shall be held under the following procedure

1. The new election shall be held between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the Thursday after the initial election and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after the beginning.
This needs the part about and  00:01 on the Friday thereafter (or whatever it says).

Quote
3. The candidacy declaration deadline for the new election shall be any time before the opening of the Voting Booth.
Are you trying saying that people cand declare any time before it begins?  Because the way it stand now, it would be interpretted that the Governor (as administrator of elections) could set down the deadline "any time  before the opening of the Voting Booth"

Quote
Section 6: Absentee Voting

1. As mandated by Article IV of the Mideastl Constitution, all voters shall have the right to cast absentee votes as mandated by Sections 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 of that Article.
This is unnecessary, but I don't care if it's left in.  Just pointing out that it's unnecessary.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 29, 2009, 08:40:25 PM
Section 7: Administration of Voting Booths

1. Whenever possible, the Governor shall be the administrator of the voting booth. If he shall be absent or unable to administer the voting booth, then the Assembly shall designate a member of its own to do so instead.
As it stands now, this is unconstitutional.  And if the proposed Constitution passes, this would also be unconstitutional.  That duty falls on the Lt. Governor (or if the 3C passes, the SotA).


Quote
Section 8: Administration of Initiative and Recall Petitions

1. There shall be no more than one initiative or recall petition contained in each thread.
2. Any thread in which an initiative or recall petition is initiated shall be clearly titled as such in the Subject line.
3. The text of the initiative or the intent of the recall shall be clear and unambiguous else it shall not be valid.
4. The Governor or Speaker of the Assembly must formally recognize an initiative or recall petition as soon as is reasonably possible unless they feel that any of the aforementioned provisions have not been satisfied. In the event that he chooses to decline recognition of the initiative or recall petition, he must formally state in the same thread as the initiative or recall petition his reasons for doing so.
5. The Governor or Speaker of the Assembly must formally state when an initiative or recall petition has gained the necessary support to be voted upon.
6. The author of an initiative or recall petition may withdraw their petition at any time before it has gained sufficient signatures to be voted upon.
7. A withdrawn petition may be adopted by another person with all its signatures still valid, though the original date of proposal shall remain unchanged.
8. A signatory to an initiative or recall petition may withdraw their signature at any time before the petition has gained sufficient signatures to be voted upon.
9. If an initiative is amended by the author after its petition has gained signatories, then the Governor or Lieutenant Governor may require these signatories to clarify whether their signature remains in effect for the amended version.

We don't have a provision for Initiatives in the Constitutio or proposed 3C.  Which reminds me that Peter's 3C proposal doesn't either and I need to bring that up in the convention thread.

Quote
Section 9: Certification of Election Results
6. Should the Governor wish to exercise his power of veto upon an initiative for statute, he must state this clearly in the voting booth after the vote has been officially certified, and must do so within 4 days of the closure of the period of voting.
For the record, this would only matter if the 3C passes; however, I think this is something that should be in the Constitution, not a statute, as it deals directly with Gubernatorial powers.

Quote
Section 12: Election and Vote Disputes
2. Appeals to a Federal Court shall only be allowed where there is a matter of federal law involved.
Superior Court only has precedent over Gubernatorial elections (should be changed to regional) - so this doesn't make sense Constitutionally.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 29, 2009, 09:36:24 PM
Inks, your first edits have been noted and implemented. I will look over the others now.

I have an issue with Section 1:2 as it copies the language of the current preferential voting system which is legally shaky (but has not yet been tested). Was something not drafted to replace that?

Afleitch, what would you propose? What is the legal problem with the preferential voting system as such?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 29, 2009, 09:47:06 PM
I changed Section 7.

I will leave Section 8 in case we ever need to address initiatives at least it is in statute.

Section 9, Clause 6 I will leave because we should compile as much information as we can in one place. Why doesn't it matter unless we pass 3C?

Section 12 would make sense if a federal law is broken in the course of an election. Is that wrong?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 29, 2009, 10:26:18 PM
I changed Section 7.

I will leave Section 8 in case we ever need to address initiatives at least it is in statute.

Section 9, Clause 6 I will leave because we should compile as much information as we can in one place. Why doesn't it matter unless we pass 3C?

Section 12 would make sense if a federal law is broken in the course of an election. Is that wrong?

Section 9 only matters if 3C passes because as of now, the Governor doesn't have veto power.

As for Section 12, Federal Constitution states that the Supreme Court handles cases of federal law being broken.  Superior Court would never handle it, so we wouldn't have a say over appeals.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 30, 2009, 01:53:46 AM
I changed Section 7.

I will leave Section 8 in case we ever need to address initiatives at least it is in statute.

Section 9, Clause 6 I will leave because we should compile as much information as we can in one place. Why doesn't it matter unless we pass 3C?

Section 12 would make sense if a federal law is broken in the course of an election. Is that wrong?

Section 9 only matters if 3C passes because as of now, the Governor doesn't have veto power.

As for Section 12, Federal Constitution states that the Supreme Court handles cases of federal law being broken.  Superior Court would never handle it, so we wouldn't have a say over appeals.

Alright, I will change Section 12. I want to leave anything that addresses 3C in there, that way we don't have a flurry of changes after it passes. I actually am going to place a clause in that causes Section 9, Clause 6 only to go in effect when that power is provided to him by 3C.

Does anyone have any more recommendations?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 30, 2009, 01:56:42 AM
So, for the record, this is what we currently have:

Section 1: Votes

1. In their vote in the Elections for public officers in the Mideast, each voter shall list some, none, or all of the candidates in the voter's order of preference for them.
2. If no indication of preference or preferences are given, then the candidate at the top of the list shall be presumed to be the first preference, the candidate on the second line of the list shall be presumed to be the second preference, and so on.
3. A voter may cast a write-in vote in any election, except a runoff election or a vote for Propositions, Initiatives, Recalls and Constitutional Amendments.
4. In order to write-in a candidate, the voter shall not be required to explicitly specify that his or her vote is for a write-in candidate.
5. In order for write-in votes for a candidate to qualify as countable votes, the person written-in must formally accept the write-in candidacy before the end of voting in the given election.
6. A voter may vote for "None of the Above" in any election in which a write-in is allowed. Any voter who votes for "None of the Above" may do so only as a first preference; any and all lower preferences of the voter shall be ignored.
7. If a voter shall explicitly cast a vote in a race for which they are not qualified to vote, then the vote in that race shall be considered invalid.
8. The form of the vote for all Propositions, Initiatives, Recalls and Constitutional Amendments shall be aye/nay/abstain.


Section 2: Determination of the Winner

1. If any candidate shall gain the greatest number of highest preference votes, then that candidate shall be declared the winner of the election. In Assembly elections, the candidate that receives a plurality of highest preference votes shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes and second preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first seat shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes, second preference votes, and third preference and that has not already been elected to the first two seats votes shall be elected to the Assembly.
2. If two or more candidates are tied in the proper votes needed for election, the following procedure shall be used:
a. If the race shall be for the office of Governor, a run-off election shall be held.
b. If the race shall be for Assembly candidates with the greatest number of highest preference votes, both candidates shall win election to the Assembly. In such a case, the third seat shall be filled by the the candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes and second preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first two seats.
c. If the race shall be for Assembly candidates with the greatest number of highest preference and second preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first seat, both candidates shall win election to the Assembly. In such a case, the third seat will have been filled and the candidate with the greatest number of highest preference, second preference, and third preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first three seats shall not be elected.
d. If the race shall be for Assembly candidates with the greatest number of highest preference, second preference, and third preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first two seats or candidates with the great number of highest preference and second preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first two seats, as made possible by Section 2, Clause 2, Sub clause b. of this document, a run-off election shall be held.

Section 3: Run-off Elections

If all remaining candidates shall have the same number of votes for a given position, then the following procedure shall be used to break the tie:

1. Run-off elections shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the first Thursday after the initial election and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after the beginning.
2. Those candidates who have tied shall be automatically entered onto the ballot. No other candidacies shall be allowed.
3. Voters shall only be able to cast a vote for one candidate.
4. If any candidate shall gain a majority of the votes cast, then he shall be declared winner.
5. In the event that litigation is pending before the Mideast Superior Court at the time a run-off is due to be held, the Court may delay the run-off in a specified manner if it thinks the result of such litigation would have a substantive impact on the run-off.

Section 4: Tied Run-off Elections

If the Run-off Election procedure specified in section 4 results in a tie, then:

1. If the race shall be for Governor, the Assembly shall have the power to break the tie by a majority vote.
2. If the race shall be for the Assembly, another run-off shall be held until a candidate is elected.

Section 5: None of the Above

If, in an election, the None of the Above option shall have gained more votes than each candidate, then a new election shall be held under the following procedure

1. The new election shall be held between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the second Thursday after the initial election and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter at 1800 Eastern Standard Time on the second Thursday after the election, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after the beginning.
2. None of the candidates defeated by the None of the Above option in the original may be declared candidates in the new election. However, a voter may still write-in any such candidate.
3. The candidacy declaration deadline for the new election shall end at the moment the Voting Booth for that election has been opened.

Section 6: Absentee Voting

1. As mandated by Article IV of the Mideast Constitution, all voters shall have the right to cast absentee votes as mandated by Sections 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 of that Article.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 30, 2009, 01:57:35 AM
Section 7: Administration of Voting Booths

1. The administrator of a voting booth shall be free to design the ballot as he or she sees fit, as long as the content of the ballot is clear and unambiguous.
2. The administrator of a voting booth shall post links to all relevant statute regarding electoral law of the Mideast on the ballot.

Section 8: Administration of Initiative and Recall Petitions

1. There shall be no more than one initiative or recall petition contained in each thread.
2. Any thread in which an initiative or recall petition is initiated shall be clearly titled as such in the Subject line.
3. The text of the initiative or the intent of the recall shall be clear and unambiguous else it shall not be valid.
4. The Governor or Speaker of the Assembly must formally recognize an initiative or recall petition as soon as is reasonably possible unless they feel that any of the aforementioned provisions have not been satisfied. In the event that he chooses to decline recognition of the initiative or recall petition, he must formally state in the same thread as the initiative or recall petition his reasons for doing so.
5. The Governor or Speaker of the Assembly must formally state when an initiative or recall petition has gained the necessary support to be voted upon.
6. The author of an initiative or recall petition may withdraw their petition at any time before it has gained sufficient signatures to be voted upon.
7. A withdrawn petition may be adopted by another person with all its signatures still valid, though the original date of proposal shall remain unchanged.
8. A signatory to an initiative or recall petition may withdraw their signature at any time before the petition has gained sufficient signatures to be voted upon.
9. If an initiative is amended by the author after its petition has gained signatories, then the Governor or Lieutenant Governor may require these signatories to clarify whether their signature remains in effect for the amended version.

Section 9: Certification of Election Results

1. When the voting period has expired, the administrator of the voting booth or a moderator of the Forum shall lock the thread containing the voting booth. The thread shall not be unlocked except to enter the official certification of the election result onto the thread.
2. Certification of the election result shall be conducted as soon as reasonably possible after the voting booth shall have closed by the administrator of the voting booth. If the administrator of the voting booth shall not be available to conduct such certification, then he or she shall designate a member of the Assembly to carry out such certification in his stead.
3. In certifying the result the administrator shall list all those votes which he or she has discounted, and the reasons for these votes being discounted. The voting booth administrator shall discount all votes that are invalid under the law, and shall only count those remaining votes for which he or she is able to make a reasonable determination as to the intent of the voter subject to such conditions as imposed by Section 9 of this Act.
4. The certifying officer may post provisional certifications of the election results, but these shall be of no legal effect.
5. Once the certifying officer is content that he has a full and complete certification he shall post an official certification which shall be final in all respects, unless a Court order shall instruct otherwise.
6. Should the Governor wish to exercise his power of veto upon an initiative for statute, he must state this clearly in the voting booth after the vote has been officially certified, and must do so within 4 days of the closure of the period of voting. This Clause shall only go into effect if such power is expressly allowed by the Constitution of the Mideast.

Section 10: Reasonable Determination of Intent

1. Where a voter lists all candidates running and places some mark to the right or left of one and only one of the candidates, then the vote shall be construed to be for that candidate.
2. The enumeration of certain reasonable determinations of intent in this section shall not be construed to be exclusive.

Section 11: Concession of Victory

1. If a candidate shall concede his or her victory of an election after the certification of the election result, then the candidate with the next greatest number of specified votes in that election shall then be declared victor.
2. If a victor who has conceded shall wish to retract his or her concession, then he or she may only do so with the permission of the newly declared victor.
3. If an election shall produce a tie that requires a run-off election, any candidate may decline to go forward to the run-off. If such actions shall leave only one candidate in the run-off, then that candidate shall be declared the victor.
4. Concessions made before the certification of election results, or on or after the date on which the newly elected official is due to be sworn in, are of no legal effect whatsoever.

Section 12: Election and Vote Disputes

1. Should any Mideast voter or candidate possessing standing to sue decide to contest the result of an election or vote they shall be able to file a lawsuit in the Superior Court within seven days of certification of that election.

Section 13: Repealed Legislation

The following legislation is hereby repealed upon passage of this:

Mideast Election and Vote Regulations Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Election_and_Vote_Regulations_Statute)
Mideast Gubernatorial Election Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Gubernatorial_Election_Statute)
Mideast Second Election and Vote Regulations Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Second_Election_and_Vote_Regulations_Statute)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on January 30, 2009, 08:03:06 AM
Inks, your first edits have been noted and implemented. I will look over the others now.

I have an issue with Section 1:2 as it copies the language of the current preferential voting system which is legally shaky (but has not yet been tested). Was something not drafted to replace that?

Afleitch, what would you propose? What is the legal problem with the preferential voting system as such?

Nothing wrong with the system, only the wording. It meant that voting;

Brown [ ]
Green

Meant you were infact voting for Brown, as Brown was 'listed' 1st. This happened in the last Mideast elections but was not challenged because the intent was clear. However it could be challenged again, if two future opponents did not have goodwill.

I'm almost positive Peter drafted something to deal with this. I'll check back.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 30, 2009, 10:48:39 AM
I believe Section 10 addresses that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 30, 2009, 12:12:49 PM
Inks, your first edits have been noted and implemented. I will look over the others now.

I have an issue with Section 1:2 as it copies the language of the current preferential voting system which is legally shaky (but has not yet been tested). Was something not drafted to replace that?

Afleitch, what would you propose? What is the legal problem with the preferential voting system as such?

Nothing wrong with the system, only the wording. It meant that voting;

Brown [ ]
Green

Meant you were infact voting for Brown, as Brown was 'listed' 1st. This happened in the last Mideast elections but was not challenged because the intent was clear. However it could be challenged again, if two future opponents did not have goodwill.

I'm almost positive Peter drafted something to deal with this. I'll check back.

Simply change it to state, "If not indication of preference is given..."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 30, 2009, 02:38:54 PM
Fixed.

Anything else?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 31, 2009, 04:54:03 PM

I don't see anything else, and fully encourage the Assembly to vote AYE on this piece of legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on January 31, 2009, 06:14:53 PM
I will add anything further to the legislation on Sunday if I think it requires amendment.

I would like to inform the Assembly that I will be on other business from Monday through Thursday so I will be absent.

(meaning I'm in London for my work :P)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 31, 2009, 07:03:28 PM
Afleitch, when will you be leaving? I would like to have a chance to incorporate your thoughts and put this to vote soon. Granted we do have a bit of time until the next elections and we don't want flawed legislation, but I would like this kind of landmark legislation to get through here.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on January 31, 2009, 07:11:39 PM
Afleitch, when will you be leaving? I would like to have a chance to incorporate your thoughts and put this to vote soon. Granted we do have a bit of time until the next elections and we don't want flawed legislation, but I would like this kind of landmark legislation to get through here.

I'll be around Sunday. I'll be away Monday to Thursday.

On closer look I don't have anything further to add or clarify. Perhaps it could be put to the vote?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 31, 2009, 10:54:05 PM
The vote is on the following piece of legislation, included in this post and the next post:

The Mideast Elections Consolidation Statute

Section 1: Votes

1. In their vote in the Elections for public officers in the Mideast, each voter shall list some, none, or all of the candidates in the voter's order of preference for them.
2. If no indication of preference or preferences are given, then the candidate at the top of the list shall be presumed to be the first preference, the candidate on the second line of the list shall be presumed to be the second preference, and so on.
3. A voter may cast a write-in vote in any election, except a runoff election or a vote for Propositions, Initiatives, Recalls and Constitutional Amendments.
4. In order to write-in a candidate, the voter shall not be required to explicitly specify that his or her vote is for a write-in candidate.
5. In order for write-in votes for a candidate to qualify as countable votes, the person written-in must formally accept the write-in candidacy before the end of voting in the given election.
6. A voter may vote for "None of the Above" in any election in which a write-in is allowed. Any voter who votes for "None of the Above" may do so only as a first preference; any and all lower preferences of the voter shall be ignored.
7. If a voter shall explicitly cast a vote in a race for which they are not qualified to vote, then the vote in that race shall be considered invalid.
8. The form of the vote for all Propositions, Initiatives, Recalls and Constitutional Amendments shall be aye/nay/abstain.


Section 2: Determination of the Winner

1. If any candidate shall gain the greatest number of highest preference votes, then that candidate shall be declared the winner of the election. In Assembly elections, the candidate that receives a plurality of highest preference votes shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes and second preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first seat shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes, second preference votes, and third preference and that has not already been elected to the first two seats votes shall be elected to the Assembly.
2. If two or more candidates are tied in the proper votes needed for election, the following procedure shall be used:
a. If the race shall be for the office of Governor, a run-off election shall be held.
b. If the race shall be for Assembly candidates with the greatest number of highest preference votes, both candidates shall win election to the Assembly. In such a case, the third seat shall be filled by the the candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes and second preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first two seats.
c. If the race shall be for Assembly candidates with the greatest number of highest preference and second preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first seat, both candidates shall win election to the Assembly. In such a case, the third seat will have been filled and the candidate with the greatest number of highest preference, second preference, and third preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first three seats shall not be elected.
d. If the race shall be for Assembly candidates with the greatest number of highest preference, second preference, and third preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first two seats or candidates with the great number of highest preference and second preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first two seats, as made possible by Section 2, Clause 2, Sub clause b. of this document, a run-off election shall be held.

Section 3: Run-off Elections

If all remaining candidates shall have the same number of votes for a given position, then the following procedure shall be used to break the tie:

1. Run-off elections shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the first Thursday after the initial election and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after the beginning.
2. Those candidates who have tied shall be automatically entered onto the ballot. No other candidacies shall be allowed.
3. Voters shall only be able to cast a vote for one candidate.
4. If any candidate shall gain a majority of the votes cast, then he shall be declared winner.
5. In the event that litigation is pending before the Mideast Superior Court at the time a run-off is due to be held, the Court may delay the run-off in a specified manner if it thinks the result of such litigation would have a substantive impact on the run-off.

Section 4: Tied Run-off Elections

If the Run-off Election procedure specified in section 4 results in a tie, then:

1. If the race shall be for Governor, the Assembly shall have the power to break the tie by a majority vote.
2. If the race shall be for the Assembly, another run-off shall be held until a candidate is elected.

Section 5: None of the Above

If, in an election, the None of the Above option shall have gained more votes than each candidate, then a new election shall be held under the following procedure

1. The new election shall be held between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the second Thursday after the initial election and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter at 1800 Eastern Standard Time on the second Thursday after the election, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after the beginning.
2. None of the candidates defeated by the None of the Above option in the original may be declared candidates in the new election. However, a voter may still write-in any such candidate.
3. The candidacy declaration deadline for the new election shall end at the moment the Voting Booth for that election has been opened.

Section 6: Absentee Voting

1. As mandated by Article IV of the Mideast Constitution, all voters shall have the right to cast absentee votes as mandated by Sections 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 of that Article.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 31, 2009, 10:56:11 PM
The Mideast Elections Consolidation Statute Continued

Section 7: Administration of Voting Booths

1. The administrator of a voting booth shall be free to design the ballot as he or she sees fit, as long as the content of the ballot is clear and unambiguous.
2. The administrator of a voting booth shall post links to all relevant statute regarding electoral law of the Mideast on the ballot.

Section 8: Administration of Initiative and Recall Petitions

1. There shall be no more than one initiative or recall petition contained in each thread.
2. Any thread in which an initiative or recall petition is initiated shall be clearly titled as such in the Subject line.
3. The text of the initiative or the intent of the recall shall be clear and unambiguous else it shall not be valid.
4. The Governor or Speaker of the Assembly must formally recognize an initiative or recall petition as soon as is reasonably possible unless they feel that any of the aforementioned provisions have not been satisfied. In the event that he chooses to decline recognition of the initiative or recall petition, he must formally state in the same thread as the initiative or recall petition his reasons for doing so.
5. The Governor or Speaker of the Assembly must formally state when an initiative or recall petition has gained the necessary support to be voted upon.
6. The author of an initiative or recall petition may withdraw their petition at any time before it has gained sufficient signatures to be voted upon.
7. A withdrawn petition may be adopted by another person with all its signatures still valid, though the original date of proposal shall remain unchanged.
8. A signatory to an initiative or recall petition may withdraw their signature at any time before the petition has gained sufficient signatures to be voted upon.
9. If an initiative is amended by the author after its petition has gained signatories, then the Governor or Lieutenant Governor may require these signatories to clarify whether their signature remains in effect for the amended version.

Section 9: Certification of Election Results

1. When the voting period has expired, the administrator of the voting booth or a moderator of the Forum shall lock the thread containing the voting booth. The thread shall not be unlocked except to enter the official certification of the election result onto the thread.
2. Certification of the election result shall be conducted as soon as reasonably possible after the voting booth shall have closed by the administrator of the voting booth. If the administrator of the voting booth shall not be available to conduct such certification, then he or she shall designate a member of the Assembly to carry out such certification in his stead.
3. In certifying the result the administrator shall list all those votes which he or she has discounted, and the reasons for these votes being discounted. The voting booth administrator shall discount all votes that are invalid under the law, and shall only count those remaining votes for which he or she is able to make a reasonable determination as to the intent of the voter subject to such conditions as imposed by Section 9 of this Act.
4. The certifying officer may post provisional certifications of the election results, but these shall be of no legal effect.
5. Once the certifying officer is content that he has a full and complete certification he shall post an official certification which shall be final in all respects, unless a Court order shall instruct otherwise.
6. Should the Governor wish to exercise his power of veto upon an initiative for statute, he must state this clearly in the voting booth after the vote has been officially certified, and must do so within 4 days of the closure of the period of voting. This Clause shall only go into effect if such power is expressly allowed by the Constitution of the Mideast.

Section 10: Reasonable Determination of Intent

1. Where a voter lists all candidates running and places some mark to the right or left of one and only one of the candidates, then the vote shall be construed to be for that candidate.
2. The enumeration of certain reasonable determinations of intent in this section shall not be construed to be exclusive.

Section 11: Concession of Victory

1. If a candidate shall concede his or her victory of an election after the certification of the election result, then the candidate with the next greatest number of specified votes in that election shall then be declared victor.
2. If a victor who has conceded shall wish to retract his or her concession, then he or she may only do so with the permission of the newly declared victor.
3. If an election shall produce a tie that requires a run-off election, any candidate may decline to go forward to the run-off. If such actions shall leave only one candidate in the run-off, then that candidate shall be declared the victor.
4. Concessions made before the certification of election results, or on or after the date on which the newly elected official is due to be sworn in, are of no legal effect whatsoever.

Section 12: Election and Vote Disputes

1. Should any Mideast voter or candidate possessing standing to sue decide to contest the result of an election or vote they shall be able to file a lawsuit in the Superior Court within seven days of certification of that election.

Section 13: Repealed Legislation

The following legislation is hereby repealed upon passage of this:

Mideast Election and Vote Regulations Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Election_and_Vote_Regulations_Statute)
Mideast Gubernatorial Election Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Gubernatorial_Election_Statute)
Mideast Second Election and Vote Regulations Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Second_Election_and_Vote_Regulations_Statute)

The vote will be aye, nay, or abstain.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 31, 2009, 10:56:36 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on February 01, 2009, 10:02:51 AM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on February 02, 2009, 03:45:35 PM
Peter doesn't seem to be around much, so I will let this pass unanimously by a vote of 2-0. It will become law in 3 days time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on February 08, 2009, 06:24:49 PM
I would formally like to suggest the following legislation to be tabled.

Amendment to the Mideast Intelligent Design Statute

Section 2 shall be amended to read 'Therefore, the Mideast Region forbids all school districts under the governments authority to teach intelligent design in any science class.
Amendments in bold.

As abhorrent as intelligent design is, it is better to air or debate this nonsense in theology or philosophy class.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on February 08, 2009, 06:48:42 PM
I agree that there should not be a gag-rule on discussion of intelligent design in classes meant to discuss such things.

I bring the following bill to the floor for debate.


Amendment to the Mideast Intelligent Design Statute

Section 2 of the Mideast Intelligent Design Statute shall be amended to read: "Therefore, the Mideast Region forbids all school districts under the government's authority to teach the theory of intelligent design in any course pertaining to scientific theory. This shall not be read to exclude such discourse in a philosophical or otherwise social science manner."

Sponsor: Afleitch




Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on February 09, 2009, 12:59:12 AM
I also bring the following Amendment to the floor for discussion:



Mideast Wiki Responsibility Amendment

1. The Governor is hereby given the responsibility of updating the Mideast regional Wiki for all legislation and occurrences during his or her tenure.
2. If such action is not taken within 30 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Assembly shall choose a member of its body to assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled Section 1 of this Amendment.



Obviously we cannot make up for all that has not been accounted for since the last update, but anything recent should fall under this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on February 11, 2009, 01:40:10 PM
Seeing as no one cares to debate, I will bring the following bills to the floor for a vote:


Amendment to the Mideast Intelligent Design Statute

Section 2 of the Mideast Intelligent Design Statute shall be amended to read: "Therefore, the Mideast Region forbids all school districts under the government's authority to teach the theory of intelligent design in any course pertaining to scientific theory. This shall not be read to exclude such discourse in a philosophical or otherwise social science manner."

Sponsor: Afleitch


Mideast Wiki Responsibility Act

1. The Governor is hereby given the responsibility of updating the Mideast regional Wiki for all legislation and occurrences during his or her tenure.
2. If such action is not taken within 30 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Assembly shall choose a member of its body to assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled Section 1 of this bill.



Please vote for each bill separately with an aye, nay, or abstain.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on February 11, 2009, 01:40:34 PM
Aye for both.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on February 11, 2009, 01:42:59 PM
Aye on both.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on February 11, 2009, 01:49:37 PM
Both motions pass my a 2-0 vote. Each bill shall become law in 3 days time barring action by the Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on February 12, 2009, 09:45:12 PM
Due to a pending legal decision in the Mideast Superior Court, I bring the following Amendment to the Mideast Constitution proposal to the Assembly floor for discussion:



Mideast Wiki Responsibility Amendment

Article I, Section 1 of the Mideast Constitution shall hereby include the following additional clauses:
4. The Governor shall hold the responsibility of updating the Mideast regional Wiki for all legislation and occurrences during his or her tenure.
5. If such action is not taken within 30 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Assembly shall choose a member of its body to assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled Clause 4 of this Section.



The vote to send this Amendment to the people shall be aye, nay, or abstain. One may refrain from voting until after the decision of the SC has been handed down, but it is not obligatory to do so.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on February 15, 2009, 01:21:36 PM
The Wiki Responsibility Act has been ruled unconstitutional. I vote Aye on the Amendment to the Constitution.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on February 16, 2009, 10:40:46 AM
I know the coming elections are taking a bit of work, but getting this Amendment to the people around the time of the elections would raise participation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on February 16, 2009, 08:37:03 PM
Message from the Speaker

Members of the Mideast Assembly and fellow Mideast citizens:

The third Convention for the Mideast Constitution will soon be coming to a close. Many of our region's finest members have contributed a great deal of time and effort to make sure this document will be as successful as possible. I would like to give special thanks to Governor Inks and my colleagues in the Assembly, afleitch and Peter, for their extensive work on the Third Constitution. It could not have been completed without their help and the aid of all those that have participated in one way or another.

I would like to call on every citizen of the Mideast to help us finish this process. Review the new constitution here (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/User:Pete_bell/Mideast3CC),share your thoughts in the convention thread, and vote on the amendments. Let us finish this tremendous effort off even stronger than we started.

~Speaker Purple State


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on February 23, 2009, 11:20:08 PM
In light of the calling of a national Constitutional Convention, I bring the following resolution to the floor for a vote.



ConCon Delegate Selection Resolution

Whereas, it is stated in the federal resolution to call a fourth Constitutional Convention for the great state of Atlasia; and

Whereas, the Mideast region is to select four (4) delegates to said Convention by a form of popular vote;

The Mideast Assembly hereby calls on the Governor to hold a public vote in a Voting Booth thread on this next Thursday at noon to correspond with the vote on the Third Mideast Constitution;

The Mideast Assembly hereby resolves that the election shall last no longer than 72 hours and no less than 48 hours from the time the booth opens;

The Mideast Assembly hereby resolves that the election shall be open to all members residing in the Mideast for a period of the 10 days directly prior to the start of the vote. Candidates shall be eligible to declare their candidacy up to six (6) hours before the opening of the voting booth. Write-in candidates shall be eligible only in the event that they accept said votes and receive five (5) or more votes.



Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 24, 2009, 01:29:49 AM
I don't mean to be a hindrance to the process, but does the Assembly have the legal authority to call for such a vote?  I don't see how they do; but I don't see how I do either.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on February 24, 2009, 09:08:47 AM
I don't mean to be a hindrance to the process, but does the Assembly have the legal authority to call for such a vote?  I don't see how they do; but I don't see how I do either.

It's a non-binding resolution, an expression of the Assembly's preference for the format of the vote that the Governor will administer.

You have the sole legal authority to call it because the Senate bill provided that the Governors have that responsibility.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 24, 2009, 12:44:15 PM
I don't mean to be a hindrance to the process, but does the Assembly have the legal authority to call for such a vote?  I don't see how they do; but I don't see how I do either.

It's a non-binding resolution, an expression of the Assembly's preference for the format of the vote that the Governor will administer.

You have the sole legal authority to call it because the Senate bill provided that the Governors have that responsibility.

Alright.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on February 25, 2009, 10:41:59 AM
BUMP

There is a vote on-going here. Any other assembly members around?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on February 25, 2009, 02:19:45 PM
Aye on the motion.

I understand that we are having some difficulty here in the Mideast with regards to participation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on February 25, 2009, 02:22:53 PM
Just a tad. The slowdown is likely due to the coming of the vote for the 3C and the upcoming national CC.

It would appear that the Mideast is the only region thus far to have enough candidates looking to be a delegate to fill its delegate slots. That, at least, is a good sign.



The non-binding ConCon Delegate Selection Resolution passes unanimously by a vote of 2-0. I will convey this resolution to the Governor as stated.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on February 25, 2009, 02:24:08 PM
Just a tad. The slowdown is likely due to the coming of the vote for the 3C and the upcoming national CC.

It would appear that the Mideast is the only region thus far to have enough candidates looking to be a delegate to fill its delegate slots. That, at least, is a good sign.



The non-binding ConCon Delegate Selection Resolution passes unanimously by a vote of 2-0. I will convey this resolution to the Governor as stated.

Having nearly every active poster in a position of government pays off. Gives people something to do. Something to take to the Convention perhaps


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 09, 2009, 08:40:25 PM
Message from the Office of the Speaker

I want to take the time out to congratulate the members of the Mideast that have been selected to represent this region in the coming national Constitutional Convention. Your work will go a long way towards improving Atlasia and bringing a renewed spirit of participation and honesty to this game we all enjoy.

I wish you all the best of luck and look forward to seeing the results.

~ Speaker Purple State


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 09, 2009, 08:51:06 PM
First, I ask that the Governor update the Wiki with the new Mideast Constitution. (EDIT: And other recently passed statutes as well)

Second, I call the following motion to the floor for debate:

Libel and Slander Penalization Act

1. It shall hereby be illegal in the Mideast region to slander or libel the name of another member of the region.
2. Slander shall be defined as harmful statements in a transitory form, especially speech. Libel shall be defined as harmful statements in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast.
3. Clause 2 of this Act shall not be read to limit slander or libel to the listed mediums of defamation.
4. Conviction by the Superior Court for acts of slander or libel shall result in a sentence of no more than a one month ban from holding office in the Mideast or a two month ban from voting in official elections in the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on March 10, 2009, 11:24:41 AM
The problem I see here is proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the questionable statement is false.

It's possible in real life...but it'd be pretty hard on the forum.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on March 10, 2009, 12:53:10 PM
My principal issue with the bill as presently written is that it is entirely possible for somebody to post "harmful statements" that are completely true, and then be convicted of libel/slander. I feel that there needs to be a requirement that the statements are false and that the poster knew (or was reasonably likely to know) that the statements are false.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 10, 2009, 02:03:40 PM
I hear both of your points. Would this version be more acceptable?

Libel and Slander Penalization Act

1. It shall hereby be illegal in the Mideast region to falsely and publicly slander or libel the name of another member of the region.
2. Slander shall be defined as harmful statements in a transitory form, especially speech, used for no express purpose beyond insult or injury.
3. Libel shall be defined as harmful statements in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast, used for no express purpose beyond insult or injury.
4. Clause 2 and Clause 3 of this Act shall not be read to limit slander or libel to the listed mediums of defamation.
5. Conviction by the Superior Court for acts of slander or libel shall result in a sentence of no more than a one month ban from holding office in the Mideast or a two month ban from voting in official elections in the Mideast.



I think that most average citizens can tell the purpose of certain claims on the forum. While claiming that someone has hacked your account may not be provable beyond a reasonable doubt by an Atlasia justice, it is clear that certain insults are used to simply harm the image of a member and have no basis in truth or fact. That is what I want this to cover. Yes there are those cases that just cannot be determined, but this law would go a long way to adding a renewed atmosphere of civility around here.

I also just included the "publicly" provision to prevent people from pulling PMs for something like this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 10, 2009, 04:16:42 PM
I'll need to consider the bill. I drafted a Press Complaints Commission bill in the Senate along similar lines but it failed. Though I understand this bill more specifically adresses the 'everyone is Xahar!!!' nonsense of a week back.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on March 10, 2009, 04:20:50 PM
It's not a bad law...and I wouldn't oppose it in principle.

You just need to know that it would be hard to prosecute any such case...as it would have to be seriously proven in court that the statement is false.

And the "purpose" of somebody accused of such a crime is highly subjective....not to mention that it has to be proven the person making these statements has to know the statements are false.

I agree with you in principle though, Purple State....I'd urge the Assembly to consider how this would work in practice, though. I suppose you could try it out and see what would happen in a real case, but think about it. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on March 10, 2009, 04:39:55 PM
The other thing that immediately springs to my mind is how do we determine if a crime has been commited in the Mideast Region?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on March 10, 2009, 04:42:26 PM
The other thing that immediately springs to my mind is how do we determine if a crime has been commited in the Mideast Region?

That's a good question actually.

Perhaps the residence of the accused person would count? It'd have to say that in the law, though.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 10, 2009, 09:49:16 PM
I was thinking "in the Mideast region" would be considered between any two members of the region. The wording could perhaps be clarified and I will make sure to include that in the final bill.

I would propose this with the understanding that proving such a case may, at times, be quite difficult. However, the resolution of this question will be answered two-fold: first by our discussion here and second by judicial precedent that will eventually come to be.

It is oftentimes clear that there is no purpose other than insult behind much of the bickering that goes on here. If a mod states that someone is not Xahar after people accuse them of being Xahar (likely knowing full will it isn't him) that would be covered. So too would calling someone a rapist, etc. I use recent examples like those because they are on-hand and I can think of them right now, but surely there are numerous examples.

Here is a new version of the bill, trying to take into consideration much of what has been mentioned.


Libel and Slander Penalization Act

1. It shall hereby be illegal for a member of the Mideast region to falsely and publicly slander or libel the name of another member of the region within the Atlas Fantasy Boards.
2. Slander shall be defined as harmful statements in a transitory form, especially speech, used for no express purpose beyond insult or injury.
3. Libel shall be defined as harmful statements in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast, used for no express purpose beyond insult or injury.
4. Clause 2 and Clause 3 of this Act shall not be read to limit slander or libel to the listed mediums of defamation.
5. Conviction by the Superior Court for acts of slander or libel shall result in a sentence of no more than a one month ban from holding office in the Mideast or a two month ban from voting in official elections in the Mideast.



Again, while it may not be clear what "express purpose beyond insult or injury" really means or covers legally, I would recommend that the discretion of the justice be used. To lay some assembly floor precedent, arguing that a citizen's position on an issue or one's candidacy for office is absurd for numerous reasons would, generally, be acceptable in the course of productive discourse. However, if insults are used in which baseless or unwarranted claims are made, such as "Don't vote for ______ because he's a satanist who drinks baby blood," then this measure would go into effect. Of course, part of lawmaking is leaving it up to the discretion of the courts.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on March 11, 2009, 08:12:46 AM
I'm concerned about freedom of speech protection here, as well.

Where do we draw the line?

I don't think anyone has the right to not be offended. I would personally be more comfortable with the bill if it were restricted only to statements that are made falsely that damage one's reputation.

Not that it matters...as I've said, the Assembly needs to decide for itself which priorities it has.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on March 11, 2009, 12:53:32 PM
I'm concerned about freedom of speech protection here, as well.

Where do we draw the line?

I don't think anyone has the right to not be offended. I would personally be more comfortable with the bill if it were restricted only to statements that are made falsely that damage one's reputation.

Not that it matters...as I've said, the Assembly needs to decide for itself which priorities it has.

I agree with Franzl on this matter, we need to ensure that freedom of speech is maintained.  We can not simply stop people from saying things because they hurt others feelings.  However if they are utter falsehoods that damage a person's reputation then yes action must be taken.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 11, 2009, 07:31:03 PM
I have tried to incorporate that into this final version of the bill. I am calling a vote for the following legislation. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.



Libel and Slander Penalization Act

1. It shall hereby be illegal for a member of the Mideast region to falsely and publicly slander or libel the name of another member of the region within the Atlas Fantasy Boards.
2. Slander shall be defined as harmful statements in a transitory form, especially speech, with the intent of causing damage to a member's reputation.
3. Libel shall be defined as harmful statements in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast, with the intent of causing damage to a member's reputation.
4. Clause 2 and Clause 3 of this Act shall not be read to limit slander or libel to the listed mediums of defamation.
5. Conviction by the Superior Court for acts of slander or libel shall result in a sentence of no more than a one month ban from holding office in the Mideast or a two month ban from voting in official elections in the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 11, 2009, 11:46:01 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on March 12, 2009, 02:11:08 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 12, 2009, 02:18:44 PM
Abstain. I have concerns as to how it will be managed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 12, 2009, 02:27:54 PM
The Libel and Slander Penalization Act has passed with 2 ayes and 1 abstain. I will pass the legislation on to the Governor.

Next, I would like to discuss an Amendment to the new Constitution. As the legislation section is currently written a Governor is not required to sign or veto a law, essentially giving him the right not to let it through nor to send it back.

I propose the follow Amendment for discussion:

First Amendment

1. Article 3, Section 2, Clause 4 of the Third Mideast Constitution shall hereby be Clause 5.
2. Article 3, Section 2 of the Third Mideast Constitution shall be amended to include the following as Clause 4: "The Governor shall have seven days to sign or veto ordinary legislation passed by the Assembly. After seven days, legislation which the Governor has not signed or vetoed shall be considered as Law."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 12, 2009, 02:36:33 PM
The Libel and Slander Penalization Act has passed with 2 ayes and 1 abstain. I will pass the legislation on to the Governor.

Next, I would like to discuss an Amendment to the new Constitution. As the legislation section is currently written a Governor is not required to sign or veto a law, essentially giving him the right not to let it through nor to send it back.

I propose the follow Amendment for discussion:

First Amendment

1. Article 3, Section 2, Clause 4 of the Third Mideast Constitution shall hereby be Clause 5.
2. Article 3, Section 2 of the Third Mideast Constitution shall be amended to include the following as Clause 4: "The Governor shall have seven days to sign or veto ordinary legislation passed by the Assembly. After seven days, legislation which the Governor has not signed or vetoed shall be considered as Law."

I'm supportive of checks and balances and would support an amendment. However I would amend the second part to read 'Any legislation vetoed by the Governor shall be returned to the Assembly and shall become Law if the veto is overulled by a unaminous vote by the Assembly.'

As 2 is the quota to allow the bill to pass, the veto quota should be higher. Essentially all 3 in favour of overulling. However the wording has to be careful, hence the use of 'unanimous' - in case one member is absent etc. An unprincipled governor could use the absense of a member to go on a 'veto spree' otherwise.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 12, 2009, 02:57:59 PM
The Libel and Slander Penalization Act has passed with 2 ayes and 1 abstain. I will pass the legislation on to the Governor.

Next, I would like to discuss an Amendment to the new Constitution. As the legislation section is currently written a Governor is not required to sign or veto a law, essentially giving him the right not to let it through nor to send it back.

I propose the follow Amendment for discussion:

First Amendment

1. Article 3, Section 2, Clause 4 of the Third Mideast Constitution shall hereby be Clause 5.
2. Article 3, Section 2 of the Third Mideast Constitution shall be amended to include the following as Clause 4: "The Governor shall have seven days to sign or veto ordinary legislation passed by the Assembly. After seven days, legislation which the Governor has not signed or vetoed shall be considered as Law."

I'm supportive of checks and balances and would support an amendment. However I would amend the second part to read 'Any legislation vetoed by the Governor shall be returned to the Assembly and shall become Law if the veto is overulled by a unaminous vote by the Senate.'

As 2 is the quota to allow the bill to pass, the veto quota should be higher. Essentially all 3 in favour of overulling. However the wording has to be careful, hence the use of 'unanimous' - in case one member is absent etc. An unprincipled governor could use the absense of a member to go on a 'veto spree' otherwise.

That should be "unanimous vote by the Assembly" not "Senate," fyi.

EDIT: Actually, I forgot that in the new Constitution, we have a clause that allows the Assembly to override a veto.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 12, 2009, 03:06:05 PM
The Libel and Slander Penalization Act has passed with 2 ayes and 1 abstain. I will pass the legislation on to the Governor.

Next, I would like to discuss an Amendment to the new Constitution. As the legislation section is currently written a Governor is not required to sign or veto a law, essentially giving him the right not to let it through nor to send it back.

I propose the follow Amendment for discussion:

First Amendment

1. Article 3, Section 2, Clause 4 of the Third Mideast Constitution shall hereby be Clause 5.
2. Article 3, Section 2 of the Third Mideast Constitution shall be amended to include the following as Clause 4: "The Governor shall have seven days to sign or veto ordinary legislation passed by the Assembly. After seven days, legislation which the Governor has not signed or vetoed shall be considered as Law."

I'm supportive of checks and balances and would support an amendment. However I would amend the second part to read 'Any legislation vetoed by the Governor shall be returned to the Assembly and shall become Law if the veto is overulled by a unaminous vote by the Senate.'

As 2 is the quota to allow the bill to pass, the veto quota should be higher. Essentially all 3 in favour of overulling. However the wording has to be careful, hence the use of 'unanimous' - in case one member is absent etc. An unprincipled governor could use the absense of a member to go on a 'veto spree' otherwise.

That should be "unanimous vote by the Assembly" not "Senate," fyi.

Yes, sorry. Mindslip :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 12, 2009, 07:10:29 PM
The Governor has vetoed the Libel and Slander Penalization Act for failing to specify that the harmful statements must be false. Before I bring it up for a second vote before the Assembly I would like to point out that the first line states that the slander and libel must be public and false.

I now will bring the measure up for a second vote. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain on the following legislation. An unanimous vote by the Assembly is required for passage.

Libel and Slander Penalization Act

1. It shall hereby be illegal for a member of the Mideast region to falsely and publicly slander or libel the name of another member of the region within the Atlas Fantasy Boards.
2. Slander shall be defined as harmful statements in a transitory form, especially speech, with the intent of causing damage to a member's reputation.
3. Libel shall be defined as harmful statements in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast, with the intent of causing damage to a member's reputation.
4. Clause 2 and Clause 3 of this Act shall not be read to limit slander or libel to the listed mediums of defamation.
5. Conviction by the Superior Court for acts of slander or libel shall result in a sentence of no more than a one month ban from holding office in the Mideast or a two month ban from voting in official elections in the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 12, 2009, 07:13:25 PM
Regarding the first amendment proposal, I don't get what you two are referring to.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 13, 2009, 12:50:04 AM
The revote won't be necessary.  I feel really foolish for missing that, and I've revoked the veto.  My apologies for overlooking that.  Again, I feel utterly dumb right now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 14, 2009, 08:44:57 PM
Alright, so we should continue discussion of this amendment. Could someone provide some alternative wording? I haven't really understood what was being discussed earlier.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 15, 2009, 10:42:28 AM
Two other matters of simple business to be attended to.

1. Elections to the Assembly are coming up this Thursday. Would all candidates please declare their candidacy in the Candidate Declaration Thread.

2. On the matter of updating the Wiki, I think what would be best is starting with what we have and going backwards to make sure that current legislation gets up there.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on March 15, 2009, 02:44:57 PM
I am happy to vote for your Amendment as presently written given that there is already an override provision in the Constitution.

I would also like to propose the following bill:

Statute Repeal Bill
1. The Mideast Voter Information Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=74439.0) is repealed
2. The Mideast Civil Partnership Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Civil_Partnership_Statute) is repealed

The first has, to my knowledge, never been followed. The second is grossly unconstitutional. I do not believe either have been repealed before (the wiki doesn't think so)



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 15, 2009, 03:38:16 PM
Just letting you know, I'll be in London all next week and unable to get on the interweb.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 15, 2009, 05:58:30 PM
2. On the matter of updating the Wiki, I think what would be best is starting with what we have and going backwards to make sure that current legislation gets up there.

If you want, I can do that, but I was going to start at the beginning and try to do a numbering system (similar to the U.S. government, so instead of H.R. 1, it'd be A.R. 1 [A for assembly]).

But, I'm open to suggestions


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 15, 2009, 11:14:26 PM
2. On the matter of updating the Wiki, I think what would be best is starting with what we have and going backwards to make sure that current legislation gets up there.

If you want, I can do that, but I was going to start at the beginning and try to do a numbering system (similar to the U.S. government, so instead of H.R. 1, it'd be A.R. 1 [A for assembly]).

But, I'm open to suggestions

That is fine. I just want to make sure it all gets done. Your method sounds pretty efficient so stick with that if you have it all mapped out.

Just letting you know, I'll be in London all next week and unable to get on the interweb.

I would recommend, before you leave, to declare your candidacy for reelection if you plan on running again.



I bring Assemblymember Peter's bill, retitled the Cleaning the Books, I Bill, which reads as following:

1. The Mideast Voter Information Statute is repealed
2. The Mideast Civil Partnership Statute is repealed

Links for the above laws can be found in Peter's original post above. Any and all are welcome to discuss.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 17, 2009, 07:19:53 PM
Seeing as there is no debate (?), I bring the following to the floor for voting:



First Cleaning the Books Act

1. The Mideast Voter Information Statute is repealed
2. The Mideast Civil Partnership Statute is repealed

Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain on the legislation sponsored by Assemblymember Peter. The vote will be open for 48 hours or until all assemblymembers have voted.




First Amendment

1. Article 3, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Third Mideast Constitution which reads, "Should the Assembly pass ordinary legislation by a majority vote, then the Governor may sign such legislation into Law, or veto such legislation. A veto may be overturned upon the unanimous vote of the Assembly."
shall hereby read: "Voting on ordinary legislation shall be considered valid when a majority of assemblymembers have cast their vote. Upon passage by a majority of those assemblymembers voting, such legislation shall be sent to the Governor to receive his signature into Law or veto. A veto may be overturned by the unanimous vote of all sworn Assemblymembers at the time of the veto."
2. Article 3, Section 2, Clause 4 of the Third Mideast Constitution shall hereby be Clause 5.
3. Article 3, Section 2 of the Third Mideast Constitution shall be amended to include the following as Clause 4: "The Governor shall have seven days to sign or veto ordinary legislation passed by the Assembly. After seven days, legislation which the Governor has not signed or vetoed shall be considered as Law."

Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain on sending the Amendment to the people of Mideast region for a popular vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 17, 2009, 07:34:52 PM
Message from the Speaker

Members of the Mideast region:

I want to express my congratulations to our fellow Mideasterner and Senate representative HappyWarrior on his victory in the contest for PPT. I believe he will do a fantastic job in his new elevated position and I wish him the best of luck.

We should all work to move past the recent drama surrounding this race and ensure a productive and successful Senate in the coming round of legislation.

~Speaker Purple State


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on March 18, 2009, 11:50:15 AM
Aye to both bills 2 posts above this one.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 18, 2009, 02:53:32 PM
Aye to the legislation and amendment.



I will leave voting open for both until tomorrow at 8:20pm Eastern time, or until afleitch votes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on March 18, 2009, 02:55:15 PM
Afleitch will be gone all week, he said, just for your information.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 18, 2009, 03:07:45 PM
Afleitch will be gone all week, he said, just for your information.

Wasn't sure if he emant this week or next week.

In that case I will end the voting on both the legislation and the Amendment.

The First Cleaning the Books Act and First Amendment both pass with 2 votes Aye and no opposition. I will bring it to the Governor to start a voting booth for the Amendment tomorrow (together with the Assembly elections).

Anyone else plan on running for those?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 19, 2009, 09:50:34 PM
Afleitch will be gone all week, he said, just for your information.

Wasn't sure if he emant this week or next week.

In that case I will end the voting on both the legislation and the Amendment.

The First Cleaning the Books Act and First Amendment both pass with 2 votes Aye and no opposition. I will bring it to the Governor to start a voting booth for the Amendment tomorrow (together with the Assembly elections).

Anyone else plan on running for those?

The legislation has been signed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on March 21, 2009, 07:38:19 PM
I ask that one of my representatives in this chamber introduce this for me.

Mideast Vote Editing Act

1. In all regional votes in the Mideast region, citizens shall be allowed to edit their ballots within 20 minutes of posting their original ballot.
2. Ballot editing shall not be allowed beyond the official ending time set for the election or referendum.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 21, 2009, 07:41:23 PM
I'll be happy to introduce it as it aligns our election regulations with those of federal government


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 21, 2009, 07:43:36 PM
I ask that one of my representatives in this chamber introduce this for me.

Mideast Vote Editing Act

1. In all regional votes in the Mideast region, citizens shall be allowed to edit their ballots within 20 minutes of posting their original ballot.
2. Ballot editing shall not be allowed beyond the official ending time set for the election or referendum.

This will take a Constitutional Amendment, but I'd be happy to bring to the floor the legislation sponsored by alfeitch.

I'll be happy to introduce it as it aligns our election regulations with those of federal government

Just write it up and I'll bring it for a vote. It would go to the people hopefully by next Thursday.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 23, 2009, 03:15:30 PM
I congratulate the members of the Assembly on their reelection. Are there any objections to me staying on as Speaker?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 23, 2009, 03:24:14 PM
I congratulate the members of the Assembly on their reelection. Are there any objections to me staying on as Speaker?

Not from this corner :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on March 23, 2009, 04:51:50 PM
No objection


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 23, 2009, 06:18:45 PM
In that case let's get to discussing an Amendment to allow for public referendum in the Mideast. We don't want to eliminate any of the branches of government, so how do we make referendum mean something? Perhaps we allow Mideast residents to voice dissent on legislation that has been passed. If enough dissent is raised we have a referendum each month for those bills.

How about this:

Second Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

1. Article 3, Section 2 of the Third Mideast Constitution, titled Legislation, shall hereby include the following as Clause 5: "Should the Assembly pass and the Governor sign legislation and a group of 4 or more citizens publicly protest the measure in either the Mideast Assembly or a separate thread, a public referendum shall be held on that legislation. All public referendums shall come to a full vote of the citizens of the Mideast in a special Voting Booth to be administered in accordance with Article IV of this Constitution. Said votes shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the first day of each month and 0001 Eastern Standard Time of the second day of the month, and shall conclude exactly 48 hours after beginning."



Thoughts?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 23, 2009, 06:21:20 PM
Just so I can get this right - is the purpose of this to be like a mid-term election?  Because if it is, it looks good, otherwise, I'd move the date that we hold them to the 3rd Thursday of the month.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 23, 2009, 06:26:01 PM
Just so I can get this right - is the purpose of this to be like a mid-term election?  Because if it is, it looks good, otherwise, I'd move the date that we hold them to the 3rd Thursday of the month.

I figured it could serve as a barometer of sorts for the direction of the Assembly. I really have no preference and would be fine, to make things easier, moving it to coincide with the regular elections.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 25, 2009, 07:33:15 PM
I call the following Amendment to the Constitution to a vote of the Assembly. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain on sending this to the people of the Mideast for a full vote.

Second Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

1. Article 3, Section 2 of the Third Mideast Constitution, titled Legislation, shall hereby include the following as Clause 5: "Should the Assembly pass and the Governor sign legislation and a group of 4 or more citizens publicly protest the measure in either the Mideast Assembly or a separate thread, a public referendum shall be held on that legislation. All public referendums shall come to a full vote of the citizens of the Mideast in a special Voting Booth to be administered in accordance with Article IV of this Constitution. Voting shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the third Thursday of the month and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 48 hours after beginning."



Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on March 25, 2009, 08:36:13 PM
Why has no action on my proposed legislation been taken?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 25, 2009, 09:37:16 PM
Why has no action on my proposed legislation been taken?

I'll write it up in a second. I was waiting for afleitch to do it. If I am not mistaken this will take a Constitutional Amendment, so let me throw it up.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 25, 2009, 09:40:54 PM
I call the following Amendment to the Constitution to a vote of the Assembly. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain on sending this to the people of the Mideast for a full vote.

Third Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

Article IV, Section 1, Clause 3, which reads: "If a voter shall edit the post in which their vote(s) are contained, their vote(s) shall be counted as invalid."
shall hereby read, "Voters shall be allowed to edit their ballots within 20 minutes of posting their original ballot or until the official end time of voting, whichever comes first."



Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on March 26, 2009, 02:36:01 PM
Nay. I've never liked the 20 minute rule.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 26, 2009, 02:54:32 PM
Nay. I've never liked the 20 minute rule.

What about the Second Amendment for public referendum?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 26, 2009, 04:55:41 PM
Apologies folks. Aye - for uniformity alone.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 26, 2009, 07:19:57 PM
Apologies folks. Aye - for uniformity alone.

To both? or just the 3rd Amendment?

Look above for the 2nd Amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 26, 2009, 07:22:45 PM
Apologies folks. Aye - for uniformity alone.

To both? or just the 3rd Amendment?

Look above for the 2nd Amendment.

Aye on the 2nd Amendment. It's unusual to have more than one bill on the floor (Not to say that's a bad thing :) ) so I didn't scroll up.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 26, 2009, 07:39:56 PM
No worries.

The Second Amendment passes by a unanimous vote of 2 Ayes. The Third Amendment passes by a vote of 2 Aye, 1 Nay. I request that the Governor bring these to a vote of the people on the next available Thursday.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 27, 2009, 01:56:59 AM
No worries.

The Second Amendment passes by a unanimous vote of 2 Ayes. The Third Amendment passes by a vote of 2 Aye, 1 Nay. I request that the Governor bring these to a vote of the people on the next available Thursday.

So shall it be written, so shall it be done.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on March 27, 2009, 09:41:39 AM
Members of the Assembly:

While the "Help Atlasia Study Act of 2009" is not quite law, yet, I'd urge the assembly to consider how the Mideast will use that money and to come up with a good plan on how to distribute it.

Thanks!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 27, 2009, 10:35:55 AM
Members of the Assembly:

While the "Help Atlasia Study Act of 2009" is not quite law, yet, I'd urge the assembly to consider how the Mideast will use that money and to come up with a good plan on how to distribute it.

Thanks!

Loving the whole "pass the buck" thing. ;)

For the record here is the Help Atlasia Study Act of 2009 as is about to pass:

Quote
Section 1:
In an effort to make a college education more universally available than it is currently, and to attempt to provide equal chances to all Atlasian citizens, the Atlasian government will subsidize a portion of college tuition for every eligible young Atlasian.

Section 2:
The funds allotted to this program shall be dispensed amongst the regions proportional to their population. The regional governments may then dispense said funds as it sees fit to college or post-graduate school-enrolled residents of that region between the ages of 18 and 30.

Section 3:
Atlasia will fund this program with an increased tax of 0.5% on all income above $500,000.

I would like some for of merit/need system that also takes into account the area one is living in. Here is legislation I'll propose.



The Mideast Education Funds Allotment Act

Whereas the Mideast region has received funding by the federal government through The Help Atlasia Study Act of 2009; and,

Whereas that funding is to be used for the subsidization of higher education tuition to provide equal chances to all Atlasian citizens; the Mideast Assembly determines the following parameters for funding:

1. Mideast public schools shall administer a number of standardized tests, in a range of subjects including math, English, science and history.

2. Mideast public schools shall be ranked in accordance with the socioeconomic status of their neighborhood on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being underprivileged and 10 being privileged.

3. Students in each public school shall, for apportionment of funds, be classified by income brackets, with ranges of: $0 - $30,000; $30,001 - $75,000; $75,001 - $125,000; $125,001 - $250,000; $250,001 - $500,000; $500,001 and over.
a) No student from an income bracket of $500,001 and over shall receive any funding from this Act.

4. Each public school shall be provided funds based on rankings as follows:
a)1 = 25% of funds; 2 = 15%; 3 = 15%; 4 = 10%; 5 = 10%; 6 = 10%; 7 = 5%; 8 = 5%; 9 = 5%; 10 = 0%

5. Each public school shall administer its funding as follows:
a) Full college tuition for the highest scoring student from each income bracket on each of the four standardized tests.
b) Full college tuition to the highest scoring student from each income bracket on the two combined topics of math and science, English and history.
c) Full college tuition to the highest scoring student from each income bracket on all four tests combined.
d) Full college tuition to all students in the lower two income brackets scoring in or above the 90th percentile on two or more tests.
d) Half-tuition to all students scoring in or above the 90th percentile on two or more of the tests.
e) Half tuition to all students in the lower two income brackets scoring in or above the 75th percentile on two or more tests.

6. No student shall receive more than the cost of tuition in funds. Extra funding shall be dispensed as region-provided scholarships to students who volunteer to teach in an underprivileged school for two years after college.

7. In the event that federal funding falls short of what is necessary, the Mideast shall levy a $0.25 cigarette tax to provide additional funding.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on March 27, 2009, 10:39:16 AM

Well we figured that regions know their citizens better. ;)




Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 27, 2009, 11:34:56 AM
Excellent :) Thank you both for responding to my initial 'nudge' on issues outstanding like these. I'll read through them


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 28, 2009, 05:36:22 PM
I am in favour of PS's Bill. I don't have objections or amendments at this time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on March 28, 2009, 05:39:46 PM
I am in favour of PS's Bill. I don't have objections or amendments at this time.

I do have one question about that, and sorry for invading here:

How are the public schools going to be ranked? What system will be used to determine that 1 to 10 rating? Will it correspond with the percentage of the overall funding that each "group" is going to receive?


I think it's a good bill, BTW.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 28, 2009, 05:45:29 PM
I am in favour of PS's Bill. I don't have objections or amendments at this time.

I do have one question about that, and sorry for invading here:

How are the public schools going to be ranked? What system will be used to determine that 1 to 10 rating? Will it correspond with the percentage of the overall funding that each "group" is going to receive?


I think it's a good bill, BTW.

Fair point. If it was Scotland I'd use the Social Deprivation Index which measures stats like crime, access to employment, access to amenities, income, family size etc which gives a deprivation ranking. But as it isn't I'm not sure what precise system can be used. I'll need to see what system the 'US' government uses if any.

Rankings should probably not be as arbitary as 10 percentiles, but more weighted to ensure that as many schools qualify as possible. So perhaps the bottom 20% of the scale are ranked '1'...needs headscratching!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 28, 2009, 07:47:12 PM
Let's just say an independent organization will be established to determine those. I have actually realized that there is almost no need for ranking the schools. We can just provide funding as is necessary. I can pull Sections 2 and 4 out.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on March 29, 2009, 02:35:46 AM
Let's just say an independent organization will be established to determine those. I have actually realized that there is almost no need for ranking the schools. We can just provide funding as is necessary. I can pull Sections 2 and 4 out.

That'll work, yeah.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 29, 2009, 08:41:10 AM
Updated bill:

The Mideast Education Funds Allotment Act

Whereas the Mideast region has received funding by the federal government through The Help Atlasia Study Act of 2009; and,

Whereas that funding is to be used for the subsidization of higher education tuition to provide equal chances to all Atlasian citizens; the Mideast Assembly determines the following parameters for funding:

1. Mideast public schools shall administer a number of standardized tests, in a range of subjects including math, English, science and history.

2. Students in each public school shall, for apportionment of funds, be classified by income brackets, with ranges of: $0 - $30,000; $30,001 - $75,000; $75,001 - $125,000; $125,001 - $250,000; $250,001 - $500,000; $500,001 and over.
a) No student from an income bracket of $500,001 and over shall receive any funding from this Act.

3. Each public school shall administer its funding as follows:
a) Full college tuition for the highest scoring student from each income bracket on each of the four standardized tests.
b) Full college tuition to the highest scoring student from each income bracket on the two combined topics of math and science, English and history.
c) Full college tuition to the highest scoring student from each income bracket on all four tests combined.
d) Full college tuition to all students in the lower two income brackets scoring in or above the 90th percentile on two or more tests.
d) Half-tuition to all students scoring in or above the 90th percentile on two or more of the tests.
e) Half tuition to all students in the lower two income brackets scoring in or above the 75th percentile on two or more tests.

4. No student shall receive more than the cost of tuition in funds. Extra funding shall be dispensed as region-provided scholarships to students who volunteer to teach in an underprivileged school, to be determined by need and the local teacher's union, for two years after college.

5. In the event that federal funding falls short of what is necessary, the Mideast shall levy a $0.25 cigarette tax to provide additional funding.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on March 30, 2009, 10:17:07 AM
I don't want to overstep but can citzens of the Mideast have input on bills? If not who is allowed to post/have input?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on March 30, 2009, 10:19:39 AM
I don't want to overstep but can citzens of the Mideast have input on bills? If not who is allowed to post/have input?

Everyone can post their ideas.

The voting members are elected every 2 months. Currently, they are: Purple State, Afleitch and Peter.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on March 30, 2009, 10:23:34 AM
I don't want to overstep but can citzens of the Mideast have input on bills? If not who is allowed to post/have input?

Everyone can post their ideas.

The voting members are elected every 2 months. Currently, they are: Purple State, Afleitch and Peter.

Ok, thank you Senator.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on March 30, 2009, 10:24:42 AM
I don't want to overstep but can citzens of the Mideast have input on bills? If not who is allowed to post/have input?

Everyone can post their ideas.

The voting members are elected every 2 months. Currently, they are: Purple State, Afleitch and Peter.

Ok, thank you Senator.

Can't speak for the Assembly....but personally, I'm happy for any ideas and proposals. Feel free to give your input.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 30, 2009, 10:28:04 AM
I don't want to overstep but can citzens of the Mideast have input on bills? If not who is allowed to post/have input?

As Mideast Speaker of the Assembly, I want to welcome you to the Mideast. Feel free to post any ideas for legislation here. We would be happy to discuss and vote on anything you've got.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on March 30, 2009, 10:46:50 AM
Updated bill:

The Mideast Education Funds Allotment Act

Whereas the Mideast region has received funding by the federal government through The Help Atlasia Study Act of 2009; and,

Whereas that funding is to be used for the subsidization of higher education tuition to provide equal chances to all Atlasian citizens; the Mideast Assembly determines the following parameters for funding:

1. Mideast public schools shall administer a number of standardized tests, in a range of subjects including math, English, science and history.

2. Students in each public school shall, for apportionment of funds, be classified by income brackets, with ranges of: $0 - $30,000; $30,001 - $75,000; $75,001 - $125,000; $125,001 - $250,000; $250,001 - $500,000; $500,001 and over.
a) No student from an income bracket of $500,001 and over shall receive any funding from this Act.

3. Each public school shall administer its funding as follows:
a) Full college tuition for the highest scoring student from each income bracket on each of the four standardized tests.
b) Full college tuition to the highest scoring student from each income bracket on the two combined topics of math and science, English and history.
c) Full college tuition to the highest scoring student from each income bracket on all four tests combined.
d) Full college tuition to all students in the lower two income brackets scoring in or above the 90th percentile on two or more tests.
d) Half-tuition to all students scoring in or above the 90th percentile on two or more of the tests.
e) Half tuition to all students in the lower two income brackets scoring in or above the 75th percentile on two or more tests.

4. No student shall receive more than the cost of tuition in funds. Extra funding shall be dispensed as region-provided scholarships to students who volunteer to teach in an underprivileged school, to be determined by need and the local teacher's union, for two years after college.

5. In the event that federal funding falls short of what is necessary, the Mideast shall levy a $0.25 cigarette tax to provide additional funding.

I have a few questions, the bill doesn't make it clear or not if the tuition money can be used for any College/University, public or private.

Also I think it would be wise if you added another standardized test for Computer based knowledge. Testing students on Computer skills like Power point, Excel, how to build websites, basic computer skills etc. I believe that knowing how to use these skills will help every student in College/University and in the business world.

Also wouldn't it be wiser to add the tax on alcohol, something many more people use?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 30, 2009, 02:05:11 PM
Updated bill:

The Mideast Education Funds Allotment Act

Whereas the Mideast region has received funding by the federal government through The Help Atlasia Study Act of 2009; and,

Whereas that funding is to be used for the subsidization of higher education tuition to provide equal chances to all Atlasian citizens; the Mideast Assembly determines the following parameters for funding:

1. Mideast public schools shall administer a number of standardized tests, in a range of subjects including math, English, science and history.

2. Students in each public school shall, for apportionment of funds, be classified by income brackets, with ranges of: $0 - $30,000; $30,001 - $75,000; $75,001 - $125,000; $125,001 - $250,000; $250,001 - $500,000; $500,001 and over.
a) No student from an income bracket of $500,001 and over shall receive any funding from this Act.

3. Each public school shall administer its funding as follows:
a) Full college tuition for the highest scoring student from each income bracket on each of the four standardized tests.
b) Full college tuition to the highest scoring student from each income bracket on the two combined topics of math and science, English and history.
c) Full college tuition to the highest scoring student from each income bracket on all four tests combined.
d) Full college tuition to all students in the lower two income brackets scoring in or above the 90th percentile on two or more tests.
d) Half-tuition to all students scoring in or above the 90th percentile on two or more of the tests.
e) Half tuition to all students in the lower two income brackets scoring in or above the 75th percentile on two or more tests.

4. No student shall receive more than the cost of tuition in funds. Extra funding shall be dispensed as region-provided scholarships to students who volunteer to teach in an underprivileged school, to be determined by need and the local teacher's union, for two years after college.

5. In the event that federal funding falls short of what is necessary, the Mideast shall levy a $0.25 cigarette tax to provide additional funding.

I have a few questions, the bill doesn't make it clear or not if the tuition money can be used for any College/University, public or private.

Also I think it would be wise if you added another standardized test for Computer based knowledge. Testing students on Computer skills like Power point, Excel, how to build websites, basic computer skills etc. I believe that knowing how to use these skills will help every student in College/University and in the business world.

Also wouldn't it be wiser to add the tax on alcohol, something many more people use?

The bill doesn't specify public or private because it should be for either.

A computer based knowledge test is regressive, as it is advantageous to wealthier students with greater access to these programs.

And we shouldn't need all that much additional funds, considering the amount the federal government is providing. You also don't want to anger the larger constituency.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on March 30, 2009, 03:25:16 PM
Quote
The bill doesn't specify public or private because it should be for either.
Ok, some government funded program sometimes have limits on what type of school you can use it for. But I agree that it should be used for both.

Quote
A computer based knowledge test is regressive, as it is advantageous to wealthier students with greater access to these programs.

Not really, if every school in the Mideast has the programs then all student can use the programs. Also, this would call for schools to add computer skill classes for the students. It just an idea I had that would be helpful to the students in their up coming years in college and the "real" world.

Quote
And we shouldn't need all that much additional funds, considering the amount the federal government is providing. You also don't want to anger the larger constituency.

Your right you don't want to anger larger constituency, but I was looking at it we would get more money from adding a tax on alcohol then cigarette. Another possibility would be raising tax on all tobacco products by $0.25

Again just ideas I had, just trying to get involved.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 30, 2009, 03:30:14 PM
Quote
Your right you don't want to anger larger constituency, but I was looking at it we would get more money from adding a tax on alcohol then cigarette. Another possibility would be raising tax on all tobacco products by $0.25

Taxes on these products are levied federally through the National Sin Tax Act...however the Act also allows for regions to tax these products too. So we could certainly raise money that way.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on March 30, 2009, 03:52:38 PM
Quote
Your right you don't want to anger larger constituency, but I was looking at it we would get more money from adding a tax on alcohol then cigarette. Another possibility would be raising tax on all tobacco products by $0.25

Taxes on these products are levied federally through the National Sin Tax Act...however the Act also allows for regions to tax these products too. So we could certainly raise money that way.

Oh ok, like I said just trying to get involved. If you guys need anything just ask me and I will try to do my best at it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 30, 2009, 04:01:20 PM
Oh ok, like I said just trying to get involved. If you guys need anything just ask me and I will try to do my best at it.

Oh please get involved :) I was just saying that your idea to raise revenue through tobaccos taxation could be done using exisiting legislation - which makes it quite a tempting one.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on March 30, 2009, 04:18:48 PM
Oh ok, like I said just trying to get involved. If you guys need anything just ask me and I will try to do my best at it.

Oh please get involved :) I was just saying that your idea to raise revenue through tobaccos taxation could be done using exisiting legislation - which makes it quite a tempting one.

Well, I'm glad I can help. I want to get involved in the Mideast, but I really don't know how to, besides this thread.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on March 30, 2009, 05:49:10 PM
I have a proposal for a basic idea for an act the we might want to enact. I believe that we are overextending ourselves to criminals and not providing enough help for the victims of a crime. In the Constitution, the Bill of Rights is littered with protection for the accused. We must extend the same courtesy to those who are victimized. Normally, people do not receive government support when they are robbed and/or physically assaulted, even after the attacker is put in jail. We should extend a plan to help the victimized.
Normally, I do not encourage the enlargement of the government, but in this case, I feel for the people who have been victimized, and I want to put into effect a bill that provides states support for those families who have been victimized within the state's jurisdiction.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on March 30, 2009, 05:58:00 PM
I have a proposal for a basic idea for an act the we might want to enact. I believe that we are overextending ourselves to criminals and not providing enough help for the victims of a crime. In the Constitution, the Bill of Rights is littered with protection for the accused. We must extend the same courtesy to those who are victimized. Normally, people do not receive government support when they are robbed and/or physically assaulted, even after the attacker is put in jail. We should extend a plan to help the victimized.
Normally, I do not encourage the enlargement of the government, but in this case, I feel for the people who have been victimized, and I want to put into effect a bill that provides states support for those families who have been victimized within the state's jurisdiction.

What type of help are you talking about?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 30, 2009, 06:00:22 PM
I have a proposal for a basic idea for an act the we might want to enact. I believe that we are overextending ourselves to criminals and not providing enough help for the victims of a crime. In the Constitution, the Bill of Rights is littered with protection for the accused. We must extend the same courtesy to those who are victimized. Normally, people do not receive government support when they are robbed and/or physically assaulted, even after the attacker is put in jail. We should extend a plan to help the victimized.
Normally, I do not encourage the enlargement of the government, but in this case, I feel for the people who have been victimized, and I want to put into effect a bill that provides states support for those families who have been victimized within the state's jurisdiction.

What type of help are you talking about?

It sounds very similar to the role of the government organisation I actually work for here in Britain ;D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on March 30, 2009, 06:40:44 PM
I have a proposal for a basic idea for an act the we might want to enact. I believe that we are overextending ourselves to criminals and not providing enough help for the victims of a crime. In the Constitution, the Bill of Rights is littered with protection for the accused. We must extend the same courtesy to those who are victimized. Normally, people do not receive government support when they are robbed and/or physically assaulted, even after the attacker is put in jail. We should extend a plan to help the victimized.
Normally, I do not encourage the enlargement of the government, but in this case, I feel for the people who have been victimized, and I want to put into effect a bill that provides states support for those families who have been victimized within the state's jurisdiction.

What type of help are you talking about?

Monetary help to cover for damage to their lives and possessions.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 30, 2009, 06:44:10 PM
I have a proposal for a basic idea for an act the we might want to enact. I believe that we are overextending ourselves to criminals and not providing enough help for the victims of a crime. In the Constitution, the Bill of Rights is littered with protection for the accused. We must extend the same courtesy to those who are victimized. Normally, people do not receive government support when they are robbed and/or physically assaulted, even after the attacker is put in jail. We should extend a plan to help the victimized.
Normally, I do not encourage the enlargement of the government, but in this case, I feel for the people who have been victimized, and I want to put into effect a bill that provides states support for those families who have been victimized within the state's jurisdiction.

What type of help are you talking about?

Monetary help to cover for damage to their lives and possessions.

That's exactly the scheme that I work for. Unfortunately as a civil servant I genuinely have to be careful of my position on public forums, so I may not be able to contribute much in public to this idea other than give general guidance on what our scheme does and who it awards monies too which is public domain.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on March 30, 2009, 06:46:37 PM
I have a proposal for a basic idea for an act the we might want to enact. I believe that we are overextending ourselves to criminals and not providing enough help for the victims of a crime. In the Constitution, the Bill of Rights is littered with protection for the accused. We must extend the same courtesy to those who are victimized. Normally, people do not receive government support when they are robbed and/or physically assaulted, even after the attacker is put in jail. We should extend a plan to help the victimized.
Normally, I do not encourage the enlargement of the government, but in this case, I feel for the people who have been victimized, and I want to put into effect a bill that provides states support for those families who have been victimized within the state's jurisdiction.

What type of help are you talking about?

Monetary help to cover for damage to their lives and possessions.

That's exactly the scheme that I work for. Unfortunately as a civil servant I genuinely have to be careful of my position on public forums, so I may not be able to contribute much in public to this idea other than give general guidance on what our scheme does and who it awards monies too which is public domain.

Of course. Do I have enougfh support for this idea at this stage for it to be presented to the people of the Mideast as a formal bill?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 30, 2009, 07:04:18 PM
I have a proposal for a basic idea for an act the we might want to enact. I believe that we are overextending ourselves to criminals and not providing enough help for the victims of a crime. In the Constitution, the Bill of Rights is littered with protection for the accused. We must extend the same courtesy to those who are victimized. Normally, people do not receive government support when they are robbed and/or physically assaulted, even after the attacker is put in jail. We should extend a plan to help the victimized.
Normally, I do not encourage the enlargement of the government, but in this case, I feel for the people who have been victimized, and I want to put into effect a bill that provides states support for those families who have been victimized within the state's jurisdiction.

What type of help are you talking about?

Monetary help to cover for damage to their lives and possessions.

That's exactly the scheme that I work for. Unfortunately as a civil servant I genuinely have to be careful of my position on public forums, so I may not be able to contribute much in public to this idea other than give general guidance on what our scheme does and who it awards monies too which is public domain.

Of course. Do I have enougfh support for this idea at this stage for it to be presented to the people of the Mideast as a formal bill?

If you want to write something up I'd be happy to bring it forward and work on it with the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on March 30, 2009, 07:24:08 PM
I have a proposal for a basic idea for an act the we might want to enact. I believe that we are overextending ourselves to criminals and not providing enough help for the victims of a crime. In the Constitution, the Bill of Rights is littered with protection for the accused. We must extend the same courtesy to those who are victimized. Normally, people do not receive government support when they are robbed and/or physically assaulted, even after the attacker is put in jail. We should extend a plan to help the victimized.
Normally, I do not encourage the enlargement of the government, but in this case, I feel for the people who have been victimized, and I want to put into effect a bill that provides states support for those families who have been victimized within the state's jurisdiction.

What type of help are you talking about?

Monetary help to cover for damage to their lives and possessions.

That's exactly the scheme that I work for. Unfortunately as a civil servant I genuinely have to be careful of my position on public forums, so I may not be able to contribute much in public to this idea other than give general guidance on what our scheme does and who it awards monies too which is public domain.

Of course. Do I have enougfh support for this idea at this stage for it to be presented to the people of the Mideast as a formal bill?

If you want to write something up I'd be happy to bring it forward and work on it with the Assembly.

Section 1
Should a person be found guilty of a crime, victims of said crime shall be compensated by the proper tier of regional government.
Section 2
Victims will be compensated for:
     1. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     2. Medical treatment/rehabilitation.
     3. Loss of material possessions. Value of said possessions will be evaluated by either the victim's insurance provider, or, if inapplicable, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
Section 3
The aforementioned proper tier of the government is defined as the jurisdiction of the court in which the decision of the innocence of the suspect is decided. The body of government that pertains to the jurisdiction of said court will cover the expenses of these processes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 30, 2009, 08:34:57 PM
I will bring the bill proposed by Persepolis to the floor for debate.

Is Section 3 saying that the judiciary should pay for the reimbursements? We can just put it on the regional tab. We should also find some way to pay for it. Citizens should all contribute to the safety and protection of the entire region. Perhaps an increase of the sales tax (what is the current sales tax? I can't seem to find it) on guns from its current level to 15%.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on March 30, 2009, 09:13:40 PM
I will bring the bill proposed by Persepolis to the floor for debate.

Is Section 3 saying that the judiciary should pay for the reimbursements? We can just put it on the regional tab. We should also find some way to pay for it. Citizens should all contribute to the safety and protection of the entire region. Perhaps an increase of the sales tax (what is the current sales tax? I can't seem to find it) on guns from its current level to 15%.

You could increase the sales tax on guns by 10% and cut the money we give to prison by half.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 30, 2009, 10:31:54 PM
I will bring the bill proposed by Persepolis to the floor for debate.

Is Section 3 saying that the judiciary should pay for the reimbursements? We can just put it on the regional tab. We should also find some way to pay for it. Citizens should all contribute to the safety and protection of the entire region. Perhaps an increase of the sales tax (what is the current sales tax? I can't seem to find it) on guns from its current level to 15%.

You could increase the sales tax on guns by 10% and cut the money we give to prison by half.



Cutting prison funding would only hurt us in the long run. Prisons need proper funding to function, to properly imprison inmates, etc.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on March 31, 2009, 11:03:07 AM
Quote
Section 1
Should a person be found guilty of a crime, victims of said crime shall be compensated by the proper tier of regional government.
Section 2
Victims will be compensated for:
     1. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     2. Medical treatment/rehabilitation.
     3. Loss of material possessions. Value of said possessions will be evaluated by either the victim's insurance provider, or, if inapplicable, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
Section 3
The aforementioned proper tier of the government is defined as the jurisdiction of the court in which the decision of the innocence of the suspect is decided. The body of government that pertains to the jurisdiction of said court will cover the expenses of these processes.

In Section 2, it says " . Loss of material possessions. Value of said possessions will be evaluated by either the victim's insurance provider, or, if inapplicable, an independent insurance company employed by the region."

Doesn't most homeowners insurance already cover that?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 31, 2009, 11:15:16 AM
Quote
Section 1
Should a person be found guilty of a crime, victims of said crime shall be compensated by the proper tier of regional government.
Section 2
Victims will be compensated for:
     1. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     2. Medical treatment/rehabilitation.
     3. Loss of material possessions. Value of said possessions will be evaluated by either the victim's insurance provider, or, if inapplicable, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
Section 3
The aforementioned proper tier of the government is defined as the jurisdiction of the court in which the decision of the innocence of the suspect is decided. The body of government that pertains to the jurisdiction of said court will cover the expenses of these processes.

In Section 2, it says " . Loss of material possessions. Value of said possessions will be evaluated by either the victim's insurance provider, or, if inapplicable, an independent insurance company employed by the region."

Doesn't most homeowners insurance already cover that?

It can vary. I do think we should add something to ensure that we aren't double-paying people. Perhaps this:

3. Loss of material possessions. Value of said possessions will be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on March 31, 2009, 11:28:03 AM
Quote
Section 1
Should a person be found guilty of a crime, victims of said crime shall be compensated by the proper tier of regional government.
Section 2
Victims will be compensated for:
     1. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     2. Medical treatment/rehabilitation.
     3. Loss of material possessions. Value of said possessions will be evaluated by either the victim's insurance provider, or, if inapplicable, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
Section 3
The aforementioned proper tier of the government is defined as the jurisdiction of the court in which the decision of the innocence of the suspect is decided. The body of government that pertains to the jurisdiction of said court will cover the expenses of these processes.

In Section 2, it says " . Loss of material possessions. Value of said possessions will be evaluated by either the victim's insurance provider, or, if inapplicable, an independent insurance company employed by the region."

Doesn't most homeowners insurance already cover that?

It can vary. I do think we should add something to ensure that we aren't double-paying people. Perhaps this:

3. Loss of material possessions. Value of said possessions will be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.

That sounds much better. We don't want to double-pay people.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on March 31, 2009, 11:37:22 AM
Quote
Section 1
Should a person be found guilty of a crime, victims of said crime shall be compensated by the proper tier of regional government.
Section 2
Victims will be compensated for:
     1. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     2. Medical treatment/rehabilitation.
     3. Loss of material possessions. Value of said possessions will be evaluated by either the victim's insurance provider, or, if inapplicable, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
Section 3
The aforementioned proper tier of the government is defined as the jurisdiction of the court in which the decision of the innocence of the suspect is decided. The body of government that pertains to the jurisdiction of said court will cover the expenses of these processes.

Also in Section 2, I believe that number 2 should read: " Medical treatment/rehabilitation up to but not exceeding two years from when the said person was found guilty'

I believe I did the wording right.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 31, 2009, 02:06:08 PM
So how is this:

The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government
2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.
3. Compensation shall be determined by the Judge upon sentencing of the convicted person responsible for the damages.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on March 31, 2009, 02:16:43 PM
That sounds great!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on March 31, 2009, 04:09:34 PM
Clause 3 - what if nobody is ever found guilty of the crime? This is especially true if, for example, a bank robber kills an innocent bystander before being killed by a SWAT team himself. Nobody will ever be sentenced, but there is doubtless a case for compensation under the spirit of this act.

I would have to recommend that compensation is determined by some tribunal, part of whose remit it is to determine that the injury is the result of some crime.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on March 31, 2009, 04:21:01 PM
Clause 3 - what if nobody is ever found guilty of the crime? This is especially true if, for example, a bank robber kills an innocent bystander before being killed by a SWAT team himself. Nobody will ever be sentenced, but there is doubtless a case for compensation under the spirit of this act.

I would have to recommend that compensation is determined by some tribunal, part of whose remit it is to determine that the injury is the result of some crime.

True. That situation never struck me.

I will bring the bill proposed by Persepolis to the floor for debate.

Is Section 3 saying that the judiciary should pay for the reimbursements? We can just put it on the regional tab. We should also find some way to pay for it. Citizens should all contribute to the safety and protection of the entire region. Perhaps an increase of the sales tax (what is the current sales tax? I can't seem to find it) on guns from its current level to 15%.

You could increase the sales tax on guns by 10% and cut the money we give to prison by half.



Cutting prison funding would only hurt us in the long run. Prisons need proper funding to function, to properly imprison inmates, etc.

Actually, I would much rather cut prison funding than raise taxes. In fact, to raise money, I suggest we cut prison spending by 25%. Right now, in the US anyway, $60,000 is spent per inmate. Instead of providing such monetary support for criminals, it would be much wiser to spend that money toward helping the victims of a crime.

I agree with all the changes that have been made to the bill so far.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 31, 2009, 05:23:07 PM
I don't understand the purpose of this.  Why wouldn't we just settle compensation stuff like this in civil court, where the victim takes the guilty party to court for a civil case.

I just don't see the need to spend government money on this, unless we set up a government system as compensation of last resort.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 31, 2009, 05:28:01 PM
I don't understand the purpose of this.  Why wouldn't we just settle compensation stuff like this in civil court, where the victim takes the guilty party to court for a civil case.

I just don't see the need to spend government money on this, unless we set up a government system as compensation of last resort.

The UK has operated a compensation scheme for 45 years. It operates in such a way that court costs and any monies awarded through a civil claim are deducted from the final award. It is to be extended to include a 'victims fund' where the state forces the criminal to compensate the victim.

It's not an expensive system to run and it particularly compensates children who are victims of sexual abuse because the monies are held in trust and are not eaten up by legal fees or mis-spent by guardians. Claims can be made for children on their behalf by parents, guardians and social servies if they are moved into care because of the abuse.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 31, 2009, 07:57:13 PM
I don't understand the purpose of this.  Why wouldn't we just settle compensation stuff like this in civil court, where the victim takes the guilty party to court for a civil case.

I just don't see the need to spend government money on this, unless we set up a government system as compensation of last resort.

That's why we have a clause indicating that if claims can be obtained in another way that must happen first. I am actually wondering what case could not be taken to civil court that this would cover? Could anyone explain this?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on March 31, 2009, 08:12:31 PM
I don't understand the purpose of this.  Why wouldn't we just settle compensation stuff like this in civil court, where the victim takes the guilty party to court for a civil case.

I just don't see the need to spend government money on this, unless we set up a government system as compensation of last resort.

That's why we have a clause indicating that if claims can be obtained in another way that must happen first. I am actually wondering what case could not be taken to civil court that this would cover? Could anyone explain this?

Oftentimes, people who suffer the injuries of the crime are not necessarily covered under the strictest form of the law. Very often, a criminal is not taken to civil court because the charges are too trivial, or the courts want to avoid double jeopardy. The victims go uncompensated, and the felons go to jail. The government just sits there.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 31, 2009, 08:19:54 PM
Updated version:

The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.
2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.
4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on March 31, 2009, 08:24:41 PM
Updated version:

The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.
2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.
4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.

That's good. We probably need to agree on our economic plan to make it legitimate. I say, as I have said before, no new taxes. We cut prison spending to meet the shortfall. In fact, we should cut the prison spending of the criminal who caused this monetary damage in th first place.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 31, 2009, 08:31:46 PM
Updated version:

The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.
2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.
4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.

That's good. We probably need to agree on our economic plan to make it legitimate. I say, as I have said before, no new taxes. We cut prison spending to meet the shortfall. In fact, we should cut the prison spending of the criminal who caused this monetary damage in th first place.

The problem is prison spending isn't laid out per prisoner. It goes to the prison to function. Cutting prison funding really hurts the prison more, decreasing guards or guard pay, which increases the likelihood of escape.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on March 31, 2009, 08:42:23 PM
Updated version:

The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.
2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.
4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.

That's good. We probably need to agree on our economic plan to make it legitimate. I say, as I have said before, no new taxes. We cut prison spending to meet the shortfall. In fact, we should cut the prison spending of the criminal who caused this monetary damage in th first place.

The problem is prison spending isn't laid out per prisoner. It goes to the prison to function. Cutting prison funding really hurts the prison more, decreasing guards or guard pay, which increases the likelihood of escape.

Decrease prisoner services, not guard pay. Lower library visits. Some correctional facilities have a bookmobile come weekly. It will save the city money and the prison money to discontinue this service. Obviously, I don't know all the services prisoners get, but we should cut it to the bare minimum.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on March 31, 2009, 08:59:17 PM
Updated version:

The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.
2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.
4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.

That's good. We probably need to agree on our economic plan to make it legitimate. I say, as I have said before, no new taxes. We cut prison spending to meet the shortfall. In fact, we should cut the prison spending of the criminal who caused this monetary damage in th first place.

The problem is prison spending isn't laid out per prisoner. It goes to the prison to function. Cutting prison funding really hurts the prison more, decreasing guards or guard pay, which increases the likelihood of escape.

Decrease prisoner services, not guard pay. Lower library visits. Some correctional facilities have a bookmobile come weekly. It will save the city money and the prison money to discontinue this service. Obviously, I don't know all the services prisoners get, but we should cut it to the bare minimum.

I believe it would have to be both decrease in prison spending and raise taxes on gun sales. Prison do need money to keep everything running right and I am don't want any law suit against the government over how well the prison are ran.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on March 31, 2009, 09:55:53 PM
Updated version:

The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.
2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.
4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.

That's good. We probably need to agree on our economic plan to make it legitimate. I say, as I have said before, no new taxes. We cut prison spending to meet the shortfall. In fact, we should cut the prison spending of the criminal who caused this monetary damage in th first place.

The problem is prison spending isn't laid out per prisoner. It goes to the prison to function. Cutting prison funding really hurts the prison more, decreasing guards or guard pay, which increases the likelihood of escape.

Decrease prisoner services, not guard pay. Lower library visits. Some correctional facilities have a bookmobile come weekly. It will save the city money and the prison money to discontinue this service. Obviously, I don't know all the services prisoners get, but we should cut it to the bare minimum.

I believe it would have to be both decrease in prison spending and raise taxes on gun sales. Prison do need money to keep everything running right and I am don't want any law suit against the government over how well the prison are ran.

A lawsuit from who? A felon? I want more rights after I killed that lady!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 01, 2009, 07:24:54 AM
Updated version:

The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.
2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.
4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.

That's good. We probably need to agree on our economic plan to make it legitimate. I say, as I have said before, no new taxes. We cut prison spending to meet the shortfall. In fact, we should cut the prison spending of the criminal who caused this monetary damage in th first place.

The problem is prison spending isn't laid out per prisoner. It goes to the prison to function. Cutting prison funding really hurts the prison more, decreasing guards or guard pay, which increases the likelihood of escape.

Decrease prisoner services, not guard pay. Lower library visits. Some correctional facilities have a bookmobile come weekly. It will save the city money and the prison money to discontinue this service. Obviously, I don't know all the services prisoners get, but we should cut it to the bare minimum.

I believe it would have to be both decrease in prison spending and raise taxes on gun sales. Prison do need money to keep everything running right and I am don't want any law suit against the government over how well the prison are ran.

A lawsuit from who? A felon? I want more rights after I killed that lady!

A civil lawsuit against the government, if we don't keep the prison up to par. Also just because they are a felon doesn't mean they don't have rights.  I don't think prison should be like a Holiday Inn, but it shouldn't be like Gitmo. We have to put a good amount of money into them to keep them to par.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on April 01, 2009, 05:35:53 PM
Updated version:

The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.
2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.
4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.

That's good. We probably need to agree on our economic plan to make it legitimate. I say, as I have said before, no new taxes. We cut prison spending to meet the shortfall. In fact, we should cut the prison spending of the criminal who caused this monetary damage in th first place.

The problem is prison spending isn't laid out per prisoner. It goes to the prison to function. Cutting prison funding really hurts the prison more, decreasing guards or guard pay, which increases the likelihood of escape.

Decrease prisoner services, not guard pay. Lower library visits. Some correctional facilities have a bookmobile come weekly. It will save the city money and the prison money to discontinue this service. Obviously, I don't know all the services prisoners get, but we should cut it to the bare minimum.

I believe it would have to be both decrease in prison spending and raise taxes on gun sales. Prison do need money to keep everything running right and I am don't want any law suit against the government over how well the prison are ran.

A lawsuit from who? A felon? I want more rights after I killed that lady!

A civil lawsuit against the government, if we don't keep the prison up to par. Also just because they are a felon doesn't mean they don't have rights.  I don't think prison should be like a Holiday Inn, but it shouldn't be like Gitmo. We have to put a good amount of money into them to keep them to par.

Of course. However, we are still overpending on prisons. As I said, I am not an expert on prison, but I know that there are some extraneous programs that need to be cut out.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 01, 2009, 06:28:18 PM
Updated version:

The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.
2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.
4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.

That's good. We probably need to agree on our economic plan to make it legitimate. I say, as I have said before, no new taxes. We cut prison spending to meet the shortfall. In fact, we should cut the prison spending of the criminal who caused this monetary damage in th first place.

The problem is prison spending isn't laid out per prisoner. It goes to the prison to function. Cutting prison funding really hurts the prison more, decreasing guards or guard pay, which increases the likelihood of escape.

Decrease prisoner services, not guard pay. Lower library visits. Some correctional facilities have a bookmobile come weekly. It will save the city money and the prison money to discontinue this service. Obviously, I don't know all the services prisoners get, but we should cut it to the bare minimum.

I believe it would have to be both decrease in prison spending and raise taxes on gun sales. Prison do need money to keep everything running right and I am don't want any law suit against the government over how well the prison are ran.

A lawsuit from who? A felon? I want more rights after I killed that lady!

A civil lawsuit against the government, if we don't keep the prison up to par. Also just because they are a felon doesn't mean they don't have rights.  I don't think prison should be like a Holiday Inn, but it shouldn't be like Gitmo. We have to put a good amount of money into them to keep them to par.

Of course. However, we are still overpending on prisons. As I said, I am not an expert on prison, but I know that there are some extraneous programs that need to be cut out.

Of course, I agree with you, but we need to be careful of what we cut. Anyways, it isn't up to you or I it is in the hands of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on April 01, 2009, 07:33:34 PM

Of course, I agree with you, but we need to be careful of what we cut. Anyways, it isn't up to you or I it is in the hands of the Assembly.

Yeah. Mayb we should include a clause about funding....


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 01, 2009, 08:33:02 PM
I don't understand the purpose of this.  Why wouldn't we just settle compensation stuff like this in civil court, where the victim takes the guilty party to court for a civil case.

I just don't see the need to spend government money on this, unless we set up a government system as compensation of last resort.

That's why we have a clause indicating that if claims can be obtained in another way that must happen first. I am actually wondering what case could not be taken to civil court that this would cover? Could anyone explain this?

Oftentimes, people who suffer the injuries of the crime are not necessarily covered under the strictest form of the law. Very often, a criminal is not taken to civil court because the charges are too trivial, or the courts want to avoid double jeopardy. The victims go uncompensated, and the felons go to jail. The government just sits there.

Double jeopardy never applies to a criminal and then civil court (not important to the law, just thought I'd mention it).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on April 01, 2009, 09:21:08 PM
I don't understand the purpose of this.  Why wouldn't we just settle compensation stuff like this in civil court, where the victim takes the guilty party to court for a civil case.

I just don't see the need to spend government money on this, unless we set up a government system as compensation of last resort.

That's why we have a clause indicating that if claims can be obtained in another way that must happen first. I am actually wondering what case could not be taken to civil court that this would cover? Could anyone explain this?

Oftentimes, people who suffer the injuries of the crime are not necessarily covered under the strictest form of the law. Very often, a criminal is not taken to civil court because the charges are too trivial, or the courts want to avoid double jeopardy. The victims go uncompensated, and the felons go to jail. The government just sits there.

Double jeopardy never applies to a criminal and then civil court (not important to the law, just thought I'd mention it).

Oh, whoops.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 01, 2009, 09:35:16 PM
The President has signed the federal funding law for this, so I am bringing it to a vote of the Assembly. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain on the following legislation:

The Mideast Education Funds Allotment Act

Whereas the Mideast region has received funding by the federal government through The Help Atlasia Study Act of 2009; and,

Whereas that funding is to be used for the subsidization of higher education tuition to provide equal chances to all Atlasian citizens; the Mideast Assembly determines the following parameters for funding:

1. Mideast public schools shall administer a number of standardized tests, in a range of subjects including math, English, science and history.

2. Students in each public school shall, for apportionment of funds, be classified by income brackets, with ranges of: $0 - $30,000; $30,001 - $75,000; $75,001 - $125,000; $125,001 - $250,000; $250,001 - $500,000; $500,001 and over.
a) No student from an income bracket of $500,001 and over shall receive any funding from this Act.

3. Each public school shall administer its funding as follows:
a) Full college tuition for the highest scoring student from each income bracket on each of the four standardized tests.
b) Full college tuition to the highest scoring student from each income bracket on the two combined topics of math and science, English and history.
c) Full college tuition to the highest scoring student from each income bracket on all four tests combined.
d) Full college tuition to all students in the lower two income brackets scoring in or above the 90th percentile on two or more tests.
d) Half-tuition to all students scoring in or above the 90th percentile on two or more of the tests.
e) Half tuition to all students in the lower two income brackets scoring in or above the 75th percentile on two or more tests.

4. No student shall receive more than the cost of tuition in funds. Extra funding shall be dispensed as region-provided scholarships to students who volunteer to teach in an underprivileged school, to be determined by need and the local teacher's union, for two years after college.

5. In the event that federal funding falls short of what is necessary, the Mideast shall levy a $0.25 cigarette tax to provide additional funding.



Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on April 02, 2009, 01:57:44 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 03, 2009, 09:24:02 AM
Okay, let's finish this.

The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.
2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.
4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.
5. Compensation shall be paid for by a 1% sales tax increase on gun purchases.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 03, 2009, 01:37:05 PM
Looks good.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on April 04, 2009, 12:47:41 AM
Okay, let's finish this.

The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.
2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.
4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.
5. Compensation shall be paid for by a 1% sales tax increase on gun purchases.

Tax increase? Especially on guns? That basically violates the right to bear arms.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on April 04, 2009, 07:26:49 AM
Okay, let's finish this.

The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.
2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.
4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.
5. Compensation shall be paid for by a 1% sales tax increase on gun purchases.

Tax increase? Especially on guns? That basically violates the right to bear arms.

A tax increase on food does not violate the right to eat.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 04, 2009, 12:15:53 PM
Okay, let's finish this.

The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.
2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.
4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.
5. Compensation shall be paid for by a 1% sales tax increase on gun purchases.

Tax increase? Especially on guns? That basically violates the right to bear arms.

A tax increase on food does not violate the right to eat.

I agree with afleitch, this bill looks good to me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on April 04, 2009, 02:15:53 PM
Aye to both bills


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on April 04, 2009, 06:49:09 PM
I know it doesn't violate the right to bear arms. I said it basically does. But that doesn't matter. The point I was trying to make is that guns are a basic tool of protection for civilians. Taxing that is immoral.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 04, 2009, 07:19:42 PM
I know it doesn't violate the right to bear arms. I said it basically does. But that doesn't matter. The point I was trying to make is that guns are a basic tool of protection for civilians. Taxing that is immoral.

Not really, but this isn't the place to debate that, right now anyways.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on April 04, 2009, 07:22:35 PM
I know it doesn't violate the right to bear arms. I said it basically does. But that doesn't matter. The point I was trying to make is that guns are a basic tool of protection for civilians. Taxing that is immoral.

Not really, but this isn't the place to debate that, right now anyways.

I say we find another way to get sufficient funds for this project then. Taxes are not the way to go.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 04, 2009, 08:10:52 PM
I know it doesn't violate the right to bear arms. I said it basically does. But that doesn't matter. The point I was trying to make is that guns are a basic tool of protection for civilians. Taxing that is immoral.

Not really, but this isn't the place to debate that, right now anyways.

I mean, no reason not to have the debate...

I know it doesn't violate the right to bear arms. I said it basically does. But that doesn't matter. The point I was trying to make is that guns are a basic tool of protection for civilians. Taxing that is immoral.

Not really, but this isn't the place to debate that, right now anyways.

I say we find another way to get sufficient funds for this project then. Taxes are not the way to go.

We surely cannot cut prison funding. The point of prisons is two-fold: to house violent criminals and to ready criminals for their re-entrance into society. I actually plan on introducing a comprehensive prison bill after this.

Taxing guns will, hopefully, reduce the instances of gun-related mishaps. I don't want the state paying because some kid accidentally shot his friend with his father's gun.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 04, 2009, 08:24:55 PM
I know it doesn't violate the right to bear arms. I said it basically does. But that doesn't matter. The point I was trying to make is that guns are a basic tool of protection for civilians. Taxing that is immoral.

Not really, but this isn't the place to debate that, right now anyways.

I mean, no reason not to have the debate...

I know it doesn't violate the right to bear arms. I said it basically does. But that doesn't matter. The point I was trying to make is that guns are a basic tool of protection for civilians. Taxing that is immoral.

Not really, but this isn't the place to debate that, right now anyways.

I say we find another way to get sufficient funds for this project then. Taxes are not the way to go.

We surely cannot cut prison funding. The point of prisons is two-fold: to house violent criminals and to ready criminals for their re-entrance into society. I actually plan on introducing a comprehensive prison bill after this.

Taxing guns will, hopefully, reduce the instances of gun-related mishaps. I don't want the state paying because some kid accidentally shot his friend with his father's gun.

I believe cutting some funding toward prisons are ok, if needed. Like the funding for buying Computers/T.V.s etc. Things that they really don't need. But you are right prison is a dual system.

As far as taxes on guns, I didn't want the taxes on guns because I don't like raising taxes at all. But that said I don't think raising taxes on guns will not keep people from buying them at all. If I am ever part of the Assembly I would try to pass a bill making it very hard for the normal person to buy a gun.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 04, 2009, 08:33:02 PM
The Mideast Education Funds Allotment Act passes by a unanimous vote of three to naught. I submit the legislation to the Governor for approval.



I bring the following piece of legislation to a vote of the Assembly. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.
2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.
4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.
5. Compensation shall be paid for by a 1% sales tax increase on gun purchases.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 04, 2009, 09:12:52 PM
I believe Peter has already voted aye for this bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 04, 2009, 09:14:09 PM
I believe Peter has already voted aye for this bill.

Technically I don't think you can preemptively vote. Not sure.



I'll vote Aye on the compensation bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on April 05, 2009, 01:46:14 PM
Aye on the compensation bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 05, 2009, 03:48:37 PM
I will say the bill passes unanimously with three in favor and naught opposed. The Mideast Victim Compensation Act is presented to the Governor for his signature.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on April 05, 2009, 11:56:19 PM
Well, I am glad that bill passed anyway, even if I disapprove of where the funds are coming from. This bill is something I strongly wanted to get through, so that was first priority, not the funding for it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 06, 2009, 02:47:39 AM
Both bills have been signed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 06, 2009, 11:09:53 AM
Next on the agenda is a gun control law. Obviously it can't be way too restrictive, but people should only be allowed to have guns that would be needed for nothing more than defensive purposes. Does anyone know a fair deal about gun control laws and what kind of law this would need.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 06, 2009, 01:36:14 PM
Quote
Next on the agenda is a gun control law. Obviously it can't be way too restrictive, but people should only be allowed to have guns that would be needed for nothing more than defensive purposes. Does anyone know a fair deal about gun control laws and what kind of law this would need.

Something like this?

Gun Control Act of 2009

1. All automatic firearms shall be banned.
2. Any citizen falling under the list below shall not buy, sale or own a firearm:
     a. Any person who has been incarcerated for any reason
     b. Any person who has an assault on their record going by 8 years
     c. Any person who has is mentally unstable.
3. Any person wanting to buy, sale or own a gun must apply for a gun permit.
    a. The cost for a gun permit shall be $250.
    b. Any person applying for a gun permit must have a background check and undergo psychological testing to see if they are mentally stable to own, buy or sale a gun.
    c.  Any person under the age of 21 shall not own, buy or sale a gun.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 06, 2009, 02:16:41 PM
How does this look? Any thoughts?

The Mideast Gun Safety Act

1. All automatic firearms, rocket projectiles, and grenades shall be banned from sale or use in the Mideast.
2. The following restrictions shall be implemented for all firearms sold in the Mideast upon purchase:
   a. The firearm must be registered to a residency occupied by the owner
   b. The owner must be fingerprinted
   c. The owner must supply a current Driver's License or government issued identification
   d. The owner must supply a confirmed Social Security Number
   e. The owner mus submit to a government-run physical and mental examination for approval to own a firearm
   f. Any change of ownership through private or public sale must be reported
   g. Reasonable assurances and precautions must be provided to ensure that no person under the age of 21 shall have access to the firearm
3. Failure to comply with any of the above restrictions shall result in imprisonment for no more than one year per infraction.
4. This law shall not apply to any on-duty military or police personnel, or in the event that a citizen has received a written waiver approved by the Assembly and signed by the Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 06, 2009, 02:20:06 PM
How does this look? Any thoughts?

The Mideast Gun Safety Act

1. All automatic firearms, rocket projectiles, and grenades shall be banned from sale or use in the Mideast.
2. The following restrictions shall be implemented for all firearms sold in the Mideast upon purchase:
   a. The firearm must be registered to a residency occupied by the owner
   b. The owner must be fingerprinted
   c. The owner must supply a current Driver's License
   d. The owner must supply a confirmed Social Security Number
   e. The owner mus submit to a government-run physical and mental examination for approval to own a firearm
   f. Any change of ownership through private or public sale must be reported
   g. Reasonable assurances and precautions must be provided to ensure that no person under the age of 21 shall have access to the firearm
3. Failure to comply with any of the above restrictions shall result in imprisonment for no more than one year per infraction.
4. This law shall not apply to any on-duty military or police personnel, or in the event that a citizen has received a written waiver approved by the Assembly and signed by the Governor.

Sounds much better then my bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 06, 2009, 02:31:51 PM
How does this look? Any thoughts?

The Mideast Gun Safety Act

1. All automatic firearms, rocket projectiles, and grenades shall be banned from sale or use in the Mideast.
2. The following restrictions shall be implemented for all firearms sold in the Mideast upon purchase:
   a. The firearm must be registered to a residency occupied by the owner
   b. The owner must be fingerprinted
   c. The owner must supply a current Driver's License
   d. The owner must supply a confirmed Social Security Number
   e. The owner mus submit to a government-run physical and mental examination for approval to own a firearm
   f. Any change of ownership through private or public sale must be reported
   g. Reasonable assurances and precautions must be provided to ensure that no person under the age of 21 shall have access to the firearm
3. Failure to comply with any of the above restrictions shall result in imprisonment for no more than one year per infraction.
4. This law shall not apply to any on-duty military or police personnel, or in the event that a citizen has received a written waiver approved by the Assembly and signed by the Governor.

It sounds good to me. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on April 06, 2009, 02:41:48 PM
Well I certainly feel your bill is an horrible infringment on rights, I have to ask what form of ID you will ask for if one does not have a driver's license.  I know in New Jersey they usually use the wording "driver's license or other government issued ID".  I see no reason why a passport or similar item would not suffice


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 06, 2009, 03:01:59 PM
Well I certainly feel your bill is an horrible infringment on rights, I have to ask what form of ID you will ask for if one does not have a driver's license.  I know in New Jersey they usually use the wording "driver's license or other government issued ID".  I see no reason why a passport or similar item would not suffice

How is it an infringement on rights? Some people shouldn't have guns. Guns aren't toys and shouldn't be treated like toys.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 06, 2009, 03:08:34 PM
Well I certainly feel your bill is an horrible infringment on rights, I have to ask what form of ID you will ask for if one does not have a driver's license.  I know in New Jersey they usually use the wording "driver's license or other government issued ID".  I see no reason why a passport or similar item would not suffice

Made the edit for the licenses.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 07, 2009, 01:55:10 AM
How does this look? Any thoughts?

The Mideast Gun Safety Act

1. All automatic firearms, rocket projectiles, and grenades shall be banned from sale or use in the Mideast.
2. The following restrictions shall be implemented for all firearms sold in the Mideast upon purchase:
   a. The firearm must be registered to a residency occupied by the owner
   b. The owner must be fingerprinted
   c. The owner must supply a current Driver's License or government issued identification
   d. The owner must supply a confirmed Social Security Number
   e. The owner mus submit to a government-run physical and mental examination for approval to own a firearm
   f. Any change of ownership through private or public sale must be reported
   g. Reasonable assurances and precautions must be provided to ensure that no person under the age of 21 shall have access to the firearm
3. Failure to comply with any of the above restrictions shall result in imprisonment for no more than one year per infraction.
4. This law shall not apply to any on-duty military or police personnel, or in the event that a citizen has received a written waiver approved by the Assembly and signed by the Governor.

Lower the age to 18, or I'm not signing it.  And, what does the physical examination entail?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on April 07, 2009, 05:36:50 AM
I will say the bill passes unanimously with three in favor and naught opposed. The Mideast Victim Compensation Act is presented to the Governor for his signature.
Sorry, when you said "Let's finish this", I took that to mean that the vote was open.

Sadly the Mideast Gun Safety Bill would violate both the Regional and Federal Constitutions. I must therefore vote against it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on April 07, 2009, 06:49:15 AM
Nay on the gun bill if it can be deemed to be unconstitutional.

Also on an aside, I will be out of the country from tomorrow till Monday.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MasterJedi on April 07, 2009, 08:39:47 AM
https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/First_Amendment_to_the_Second_Constitution (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/First_Amendment_to_the_Second_Constitution)

The right to keep and bear arms and low potency explosives shall not be infringed. It's unconstitutional.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 07, 2009, 10:28:32 AM
https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/First_Amendment_to_the_Second_Constitution (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/First_Amendment_to_the_Second_Constitution)

The right to keep and bear arms and low potency explosives shall not be infringed. It's unconstitutional.

It doesn't infringe upon that right. It creates certain guidelines for increased safety under the Constitution. Just as we have libel and slander laws despite the right to free speech.

Inks, I would not object to lowering the age to 18, and a physical examination would ensure that the person can properly handle the firearm, including eyesight, determination of certain muscular diseases (e.g. Parkinson's, etc.).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 07, 2009, 11:58:23 AM
https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/First_Amendment_to_the_Second_Constitution (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/First_Amendment_to_the_Second_Constitution)

The right to keep and bear arms and low potency explosives shall not be infringed. It's unconstitutional.

It doesn't infringe upon that right. It creates certain guidelines for increased safety under the Constitution. Just as we have libel and slander laws despite the right to free speech.

But an automatic weapon is still a fire-arm.  I really don't see how it's Constitutional.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 07, 2009, 12:28:15 PM
How does this look? Any thoughts?

The Mideast Gun Safety Act

1. All automatic firearms, rocket projectiles, and grenades shall be banned from sale or use in the Mideast.
1. The following restrictions shall be implemented for all firearms sold in the Mideast upon purchase:
   a. The firearm must be registered to a residency occupied by the owner
   b. The owner must be fingerprinted
   c. The owner must supply a current Driver's License or government issued identification
   d. The owner must supply a confirmed Social Security Number
   e. The owner must submit to a government-run physicalfirearm course and mental examination for approval to own a firearm
   f. Any change of ownership through private or public sale must be reported
   g. Reasonable assurances and precautions must be provided to ensure that no person under the age of 2118 shall have access to the firearm
3. Failure to comply with any of the above restrictions shall result in imprisonment for no more than one year per infraction.
4. This law shall not apply to any on-duty military or police personnel, or in the event that a citizen has received a written waiver approved by the Assembly and signed by the Governor.

What about if we make it like this?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 07, 2009, 01:30:15 PM
I wouldn't remove rocket projectiles or grenades from that. They wouldn't fall under low potency explosives.

Nor do I think that the right to bear arms includes the right to bear all forms of arms. I have no problem with people owning guns, but I do have an issue with certain types of firearms.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 07, 2009, 01:36:50 PM
https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/First_Amendment_to_the_Second_Constitution (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/First_Amendment_to_the_Second_Constitution)

The right to keep and bear arms and low potency explosives shall not be infringed. It's unconstitutional.

And for the record, that isn't current. The Third Constitution of the Mideast states: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms of a nature reasonable for self defense shall not be infringed."

This law just goes forward in defining exactly what that means.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 07, 2009, 01:38:05 PM
How does this look? Any thoughts?

The Mideast Gun Safety Act

1. All automatic firearms, rocket projectiles, and grenades shall be banned from sale or use in the Mideast.
2. The following restrictions shall be implemented for all firearms sold in the Mideast upon purchase:
   a. The firearm must be registered to a residency occupied by the owner
   b. The owner must be fingerprinted
   c. The owner must supply a current Driver's License or government issued identification
   d. The owner must supply a confirmed Social Security Number
   e. The owner must submit to a government-run physicalfirearm course and mental examination for approval to own a firearm
   f. Any change of ownership through private or public sale must be reported
   g. Reasonable assurances and precautions must be provided to ensure that no person under the age of 2118 shall have access to the firearm
3. Failure to comply with any of the above restrictions shall result in imprisonment for no more than one year per infraction.
4. This law shall not apply to any on-duty military or police personnel, or in the event that a citizen has received a written waiver approved by the Assembly and signed by the Governor.

I think if we want this to pass we are going to have to give up on the banning of automatic firearms. Something you have to give a little to get a little.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 07, 2009, 01:42:14 PM
Current version:

The Mideast Gun Safety Act

1. All automatic firearms, rocket projectiles, and grenades shall be banned from sale or use in the Mideast.
2. The following restrictions shall be implemented for all firearms sold in the Mideast upon purchase:
   a. The firearm must be registered to a residency occupied by the owner
   b. The owner must be fingerprinted
   c. The owner must supply a current Driver's License or government issued identification
   d. The owner must supply a confirmed Social Security Number
   e. The owner mus submit to a government-run firearm "use and safety course" and mental examination for approval to own a firearm
   f. Any change of ownership through private or public sale must be reported
   g. Reasonable assurances and precautions must be provided to ensure that no person under the age of 18 shall have access to the firearm
3. Failure to comply with any of the above restrictions shall result in imprisonment for no more than one year per infraction.
4. This law shall not apply to any on-duty military or police personnel, or in the event that a citizen has received a written waiver approved by the Assembly and signed by the Governor.



To reiterate, this appears wholly constitutional according to the current Mideast Constitution, which protects reasonably needed for self-defense. I don't think many would argue that automatic weapons fall under that category.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 07, 2009, 01:44:36 PM
I see no problem with it, but I'm not voting on it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on April 07, 2009, 02:25:50 PM
Again, I would dearly love to vote in favour of the Amendment, however, my feeling is that the federal Constitution will not allow such a bill to pass. See the Debate (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=21580.75) on the Amendment as it was proposed in the Senate.

At the time I was against the Amendment, and I strongly voiced, as did others, that grenades and mortars were probably covered by the clause, but that intent was unclear.

I also feel that provisions of Section 2 constitute an unreasonable search of the person seeking to buy the weapon. A fingerprint registry of the nation is in my view highly undesirable on policy grounds, and probably unconstitutional on legal grounds - these people have done nothing illegal, and therefore should not have their fingerprints stored ad infinitum just because they bought a gun - this is treatment we only subject criminals too.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 07, 2009, 02:29:42 PM
If I remove the fingerprint clause would you be willing to vote Aye and let the Supreme Court decide on the constitutionality?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 07, 2009, 02:33:24 PM
Again, I would dearly love to vote in favour of the Amendment, however, my feeling is that the federal Constitution will not allow such a bill to pass. See the Debate (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=21580.75) on the Amendment as it was proposed in the Senate.

At the time I was against the Amendment, and I strongly voiced, as did others, that grenades and mortars were probably covered by the clause, but that intent was unclear.

I also feel that provisions of Section 2 constitute an unreasonable search of the person seeking to buy the weapon. A fingerprint registry of the nation is in my view highly undesirable on policy grounds, and probably unconstitutional on legal grounds - these people have done nothing illegal, and therefore should not have their fingerprints stored ad infinitum just because they bought a gun - this is treatment we only subject criminals too.

The TSA makes any driver who is getting Hazmat on their license get their fingerprint taken and have a back ground check. But of course the law are different here so I'm not to sure it it would go against their rights.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 07, 2009, 03:42:46 PM
https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/First_Amendment_to_the_Second_Constitution (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/First_Amendment_to_the_Second_Constitution)

The right to keep and bear arms and low potency explosives shall not be infringed. It's unconstitutional.

And for the record, that isn't current. The Third Constitution of the Mideast states: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms of a nature reasonable for self defense shall not be infringed."

This law just goes forward in defining exactly what that means.

That's the national Constitution he quoted, not the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 07, 2009, 06:29:21 PM
https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/First_Amendment_to_the_Second_Constitution (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/First_Amendment_to_the_Second_Constitution)

The right to keep and bear arms and low potency explosives shall not be infringed. It's unconstitutional.

And for the record, that isn't current. The Third Constitution of the Mideast states: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms of a nature reasonable for self defense shall not be infringed."

This law just goes forward in defining exactly what that means.

That's the national Constitution he quoted, not the Mideast.

Alright, I may want to look more into this then before we consider passage of any law. Being that afleitch is going away for a few days and I will be away from Wednesday night to Saturday night, it doesn't seem like now is the time to look for any controversial bills. We will table this for now. If anyone has some easy book cleaning legislation now is a good time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 07, 2009, 10:05:19 PM
I think that the time has come to change the region's capital.  College Park seems like a small and arbitry choice.  I would propose some place in the center of our region such as Columbus or Indianapolis.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on April 07, 2009, 10:09:11 PM
I think that the time has come to change the region's capital.  College Park seems like a small and arbitry choice.  I would propose some place in the center of our region such as Columbus or Indianapolis.
Someone's a copy cat :P

The reason we did it, and had been trying so long, is because we wanted to proclaim ourselves a new and reborn region.  Are you running for the history of the Mideast?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 07, 2009, 10:13:13 PM
I think that the time has come to change the region's capital.  College Park seems like a small and arbitry choice.  I would propose some place in the center of our region such as Columbus or Indianapolis.

I had actually just been thinking about this, especially how tucked away the capital is. How about we give each incoming Governor the right to move the capital wherever he so chooses. This can only be done once by each non-incumbent Governor. Or we could setup a roaming thing where it changes each month or each gubernatorial election cycle.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 07, 2009, 10:22:04 PM
I think that the time has come to change the region's capital.  College Park seems like a small and arbitry choice.  I would propose some place in the center of our region such as Columbus or Indianapolis.

I had actually just been thinking about this, especially how tucked away the capital is. How about we give each incoming Governor the right to move the capital wherever he so chooses. This can only be done once by each non-incumbent Governor. Or we could setup a roaming thing where it changes each month or each gubernatorial election cycle.

I don't think a moving captail is a good idea, to much work trying to keep up with where it is. Why not Louisville, KY??


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 07, 2009, 10:24:19 PM
I would say VA, as it is our most populous state. Of course, it also happens to be where I reside, but ya know... :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 07, 2009, 10:35:26 PM
I would say VA, as it is our most populous state. Of course, it also happens to be where I reside, but ya know... :P

I say come up with a list of cities and let the Mideast Citizens vote on it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 07, 2009, 10:46:47 PM
Resolution for the Relocation of the Mideast Capital

Whereas, the Mideast Assembly believes that the Capital of the Mideast shall be moved from its current location of College Park, MD;

Whereas, there are a number of large, centrally located cities in the Mideast appropriate for the locale of the Mideast Capital, Governor's Mansion and Assembly Chamber;

We resolve that the Governor shall open a public Voting Booth at his discrepancy, within twenty days, to allow the people of the Mideast to choose a new Capital from the following list of candidates:
1. Indianapolis, IN
2. Richmond, VA
3. Columbus, OH
4. Louisville, KY
5. Lansing, MI

How does that look?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 07, 2009, 10:48:48 PM
Looks good to me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on April 08, 2009, 06:58:35 AM
I will oppose any attempt to move the capital from Maryland!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 08, 2009, 09:05:55 AM
I will oppose any attempt to move the capital from Maryland!

Knew that one was coming... I was pretty shocked that HW came up with the idea in the first place. I guess some just don't like having the capital so close to home.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 08, 2009, 11:17:02 AM
I will oppose any attempt to move the capital from Maryland!

Knew that one was coming... I was pretty shocked that HW came up with the idea in the first place. I guess some just don't like having the capital so close to home.

No, I'd like it to remain in Maryland.  However College Park just seems like such an arbitrary locale.  Why not Annapolis if it has to be in Maryland?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 08, 2009, 12:37:36 PM
I will oppose any attempt to move the capital from Maryland!

Knew that one was coming... I was pretty shocked that HW came up with the idea in the first place. I guess some just don't like having the capital so close to home.

No, I'd like it to remain in Maryland.  However College Park just seems like such an arbitrary locale.  Why not Annapolis if it has to be in Maryland?

I wouldn't mind Annapolis or Baltimore (it could help clean up the city).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 08, 2009, 01:10:28 PM
We should move the capital to Richmond.  It's in the most populous state, but I'm also fine with having a general resolution.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 08, 2009, 03:08:42 PM
I will oppose any attempt to move the capital from Maryland!

Knew that one was coming... I was pretty shocked that HW came up with the idea in the first place. I guess some just don't like having the capital so close to home.

No, I'd like it to remain in Maryland.  However College Park just seems like such an arbitrary locale.  Why not Annapolis if it has to be in Maryland?

I wouldn't mind Annapolis or Baltimore (it could help clean up the city).

I don't care which but could you add one of them to the resolution?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 08, 2009, 03:56:45 PM
Updated version:

Resolution for the Relocation of the Mideast Capital

Whereas, the Mideast Assembly believes that the Capital of the Mideast shall be moved from its current location of College Park, MD;

Whereas, there are a number of large, centrally located cities in the Mideast appropriate for the locale of the Mideast Capital, Governor's Mansion and Assembly Chamber;

We resolve that the Governor shall open a public Voting Booth at his discrepancy, within twenty days, to allow the people of the Mideast to choose a new Capital from the following list of candidates:
1. Baltimore, IN
2. Richmond, VA
3. Columbus, OH
4. Louisville, KY

Does anyone have further comment? I'm not going to bring this to a vote until Saturday because I won't be able to access internet in about 2 hours. So feel free to continue discussion.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on April 08, 2009, 05:58:33 PM
I think that the time has come to change the region's capital.  College Park seems like a small and arbitry choice.  I would propose some place in the center of our region such as Columbus or Indianapolis.

I had actually just been thinking about this, especially how tucked away the capital is. How about we give each incoming Governor the right to move the capital wherever he so chooses. This can only be done once by each non-incumbent Governor. Or we could setup a roaming thing where it changes each month or each gubernatorial election cycle.
Wouldn't that incur massive amount of debt from constantly moving your capitol, the people stationed there, and all the buildings?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on April 08, 2009, 06:05:48 PM
I think that the time has come to change the region's capital.  College Park seems like a small and arbitry choice.  I would propose some place in the center of our region such as Columbus or Indianapolis.

I had actually just been thinking about this, especially how tucked away the capital is. How about we give each incoming Governor the right to move the capital wherever he so chooses. This can only be done once by each non-incumbent Governor. Or we could setup a roaming thing where it changes each month or each gubernatorial election cycle.
Wouldn't that incur massive amount of debt from constantly moving your capitol, the people stationed there, and all the buildings?

The cool thing is the fact that this is a sim and that doesn't matter.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on April 08, 2009, 06:09:08 PM
Updated version:

Resolution for the Relocation of the Mideast Capital

Whereas, the Mideast Assembly believes that the Capital of the Mideast shall be moved from its current location of College Park, MD;

Whereas, there are a number of large, centrally located cities in the Mideast appropriate for the locale of the Mideast Capital, Governor's Mansion and Assembly Chamber;

We resolve that the Governor shall open a public Voting Booth at his discrepancy, within twenty days, to allow the people of the Mideast to choose a new Capital from the following list of candidates:
1. Baltimore, IN
2. Richmond, VA
3. Columbus, OH
4. Louisville, KY

Does anyone have further comment? I'm not going to bring this to a vote until Saturday because I won't be able to access internet in about 2 hours. So feel free to continue discussion.

What if we don't want to change capitals? What if we don't like any of those cities? What will we vote for?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 08, 2009, 07:56:59 PM
What if we don't want to change capitals? What if we don't like any of those cities? What will we vote for?

True, let's put our current Capital as an option too.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 09, 2009, 01:10:29 AM
I think that the time has come to change the region's capital.  College Park seems like a small and arbitry choice.  I would propose some place in the center of our region such as Columbus or Indianapolis.

I had actually just been thinking about this, especially how tucked away the capital is. How about we give each incoming Governor the right to move the capital wherever he so chooses. This can only be done once by each non-incumbent Governor. Or we could setup a roaming thing where it changes each month or each gubernatorial election cycle.
Wouldn't that incur massive amount of debt from constantly moving your capitol, the people stationed there, and all the buildings?

The cool thing is the fact that this is a sim and that doesn't matter.

If we all had that mentality, nothing would get done here.

Besides, Atlasia is real, just like Santa!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 09, 2009, 06:37:34 AM
Updated version:

Resolution for the Relocation of the Mideast Capital

Whereas, the Mideast Assembly believes that the Capital of the Mideast shall be moved from its current location of College Park, MD;

Whereas, there are a number of large, centrally located cities in the Mideast appropriate for the locale of the Mideast Capital, Governor's Mansion and Assembly Chamber;

We resolve that the Governor shall open a public Voting Booth at his discrepancy, within twenty days, to allow the people of the Mideast to choose a new Capital from the following list of candidates:
1. Baltimore,INMD
2. Richmond, VA
3. Columbus, OH
4. Louisville, KY

Does anyone have further comment? I'm not going to bring this to a vote until Saturday because I won't be able to access internet in about 2 hours. So feel free to continue discussion.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 11, 2009, 08:51:45 PM
^^^ Wow I can't believe I did that.

I think that the time has come to change the region's capital.  College Park seems like a small and arbitry choice.  I would propose some place in the center of our region such as Columbus or Indianapolis.

I had actually just been thinking about this, especially how tucked away the capital is. How about we give each incoming Governor the right to move the capital wherever he so chooses. This can only be done once by each non-incumbent Governor. Or we could setup a roaming thing where it changes each month or each gubernatorial election cycle.
Wouldn't that incur massive amount of debt from constantly moving your capitol, the people stationed there, and all the buildings?

Yeah, I wasn't thinking that would fly.

What if we don't want to change capitals? What if we don't like any of those cities? What will we vote for?

True, let's put our current Capital as an option too.

I figure a NOTA option would work for that. But I am willing to place "no change" as an option.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 12, 2009, 11:22:09 AM
Okay, this is what we are looking at for the final legislation.

Resolution for the Relocation of the Mideast Capital

Whereas, the Mideast Assembly believes that the Capital of the Mideast shall be moved from its current location of College Park, MD;

Whereas, there are a number of large, centrally located cities in the Mideast appropriate for the locale of the Mideast Capital, Governor's Mansion and Assembly Chamber;

We resolve that the Governor shall open a public Voting Booth at his discrepancy, within twenty days, to allow the people of the Mideast to choose a new Capital from the following list of candidates:
1. Baltimore,MD
2. Richmond, VA
3. Columbus, OH
4. Louisville, KY
5. College Park, MD (no change)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 13, 2009, 06:36:44 PM
I bring the following resolution to a vote. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

Resolution for the Relocation of the Mideast Capital

Whereas, the Mideast Assembly believes that the Capital of the Mideast shall be moved from its current location of College Park, MD;

Whereas, there are a number of large, centrally located cities in the Mideast appropriate for the locale of the Mideast Capital, Governor's Mansion and Assembly Chamber;

We resolve that the Governor shall open a public Voting Booth at his discrepancy, within twenty days, to allow the people of the Mideast to choose a new Capital from the following list of candidates:
1. Baltimore,MD
2. Richmond, VA
3. Columbus, OH
4. Louisville, KY
5. College Park, MD (no change)



Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on April 13, 2009, 06:41:07 PM
Nay.

Moving the seat of government and all it's institutions would cost many millions and combined with the logistics of such an operation, at a time of economic crisis I feel that this sends this sends out the wrong message to the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 13, 2009, 06:45:38 PM
Nay.

Moving the seat of government and all it's institutions would cost many millions and combined with the logistics of such an operation, at a time of economic crisis I feel that this sends this sends out the wrong message to the Mideast.

I would say this lets the people decide whether it's worth the money. No change is an option.

On an unrelated note, I have edited the Constitution on the Wiki to reflect the Amendments passed thus far.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on April 19, 2009, 05:49:38 AM
Apologies for not seeing this sooner.

Nay on relocating hte capital


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 19, 2009, 08:09:42 AM
No worries. The Resolution for the Relocation of the Mideast Capital fails by a vote of one in favor, two opposed.

I will try to bring some legislation forward tomorrow. I have had quite the busy weekend.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 19, 2009, 02:20:21 PM
Seems like everyone has.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 20, 2009, 07:19:35 PM
Farewell Message from the Speaker

Fellow citizens of the Mideast,

I want to thank everyone for the opportunity you have given me over the past few months to serve as your Assembly Member and Speaker. I know that, without your incredible activity and passion to make this region successful, I would never have been able to accomplish all that we have done together. Specifically, I would like to thank Afleitch for first appointing me to the Assembly way back when, Peter for helping me become Speaker of the Assembly, and Inks for being a great partner in the Third Constitutional Convention and a great Governor.

As many of you know, last night fellow AM Afleitch and I were elected to the Atlasian Senate, a great accomplishment for the Mideast region. This will leave two Assembly seats vacant, as we will be stepping down from our positions here. I must say it has been an honor. However, this does not mean that I am through with the region. I want you all to stay active and involved in the Mideast. Invest in your region and allow it to continue to prosper. Although I will hold no formal position in the region, rest assured I will remain active in helping craft legislation and new ideas.

In addition, I will soon be opening my Senate office. Please be sure to stop by and voice any comments or questions. My door is always open to ideas you may have, proposed legislation, or just a quick hello.

I will also take this time to endorse Dan as my replacement in the Assembly. He has proven to be an invaluable voice in the crafting of legislation and I believe that the Assembly will be a great place for him to continue to learn and thrive in Atlasia. I urge Governor Inks to appoint him upon my resignation later this week.

I plan on refraining from presenting new comprehensive legislation during this transition week. I would rather allow for the next Assembly to enter with a clean slate to craft for themselves. However, if anyone has a proposal for any emergency legislation that will be considered. Instead, I do plan on giving us a few fun and less formal resolutions to pass as my present to you all.

~Your Proud Speaker Purple State


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 20, 2009, 08:42:32 PM
Farewell Message from the Speaker

Fellow citizens of the Mideast,

I want to thank everyone for the opportunity you have given me over the past few months to serve as your Assembly Member and Speaker. I know that, without your incredible activity and passion to make this region successful, I would never have been able to accomplish all that we have done together. Specifically, I would like to thank Afleitch for first appointing me to the Assembly way back when, Peter for helping me become Speaker of the Assembly, and Inks for being a great partner in the Third Constitutional Convention and a great Governor.

As many of you know, last night fellow AM Afleitch and I were elected to the Atlasian Senate, a great accomplishment for the Mideast region. This will leave two Assembly seats vacant, as we will be stepping down from our positions here. I must say it has been an honor. However, this does not mean that I am through with the region. I want you all to stay active and involved in the Mideast. Invest in your region and allow it to continue to prosper. Although I will hold no formal position in the region, rest assured I will remain active in helping craft legislation and new ideas.

In addition, I will soon be opening my Senate office. Please be sure to stop by and voice any comments or questions. My door is always open to ideas you may have, proposed legislation, or just a quick hello.

I will also take this time to endorse Dan as my replacement in the Assembly. He has proven to be an invaluable voice in the crafting of legislation and I believe that the Assembly will be a great place for him to continue to learn and thrive in Atlasia. I urge Governor Inks to appoint him upon my resignation later this week.

I plan on refraining from presenting new comprehensive legislation during this transition week. I would rather allow for the next Assembly to enter with a clean slate to craft for themselves. However, if anyone has a proposal for any emergency legislation that will be considered. Instead, I do plan on giving us a few fun and less formal resolutions to pass as my present to you all.

~Your Proud Speaker Purple State

You will surly be missed in the Assembly, Purple State. Thank you for endorsing me for your replacement. I would also like the Governor to think about putting Persepolis on the Assembly as well. But whatever the Governor does I know you will do it trying to make the Mideast a better place.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 20, 2009, 10:04:22 PM
As Senator of the Mideast region I would also like to encourage the Governor to appoint Persepolis and Dan as the new assemblymen of the region.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 20, 2009, 10:16:51 PM
I see no problem with it, but I have no vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 27, 2009, 08:21:02 PM
Once Persepolis swears in, we can get to work.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 27, 2009, 08:29:42 PM
I would recommend once he swears in you elect a Speaker. Also, don't forget you still have Peter to help out and I'm always good for advice.

Good luck you two rascals. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 27, 2009, 08:32:34 PM
I would recommend once he swears in you elect a Speaker. Also, don't forget you still have Peter to help out and I'm always good for advice.

Good luck you two rascals. ;)

Yea, that was the first thing I was going to do. Also you more then likely will be getting alot of PMs soon. :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 27, 2009, 09:42:41 PM
Also if either of you are in any need of assistance I am always available as a former assemblyman, Speaker, Governor, and Regional Judge ;D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on April 27, 2009, 11:25:11 PM
I am fairly sure I can speak for both Dan and I when I say we are honored to be so appreciated within the Mideast and we will certainly look to all of you, who so graciously offered us help, when we need some.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on April 28, 2009, 12:23:00 AM
Congratulations to both of you....and as a fellow former speaker....I'm also open to any questions or whatever! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 28, 2009, 09:43:01 AM
Well I think we need to go ahead and elect a speaker. I'm willing to do it, but I think to be fair we should let peter pick the speaker. Then take it to a vote just to say we elected someone.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 28, 2009, 11:41:02 AM
Also if either of you are in any need of assistance I am always available as a former assemblyman, Speaker, Governor, and Regional Judge ;D

Same here.  Just let me know if you guys need anything.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on April 28, 2009, 02:01:37 PM
As Dean of this Assembly, I hereby assume the Chair to preside over the election of a Speaker.

I will state that I have no particular desire to serve longer term, but will do so if asked.

I call for nominations!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on April 28, 2009, 02:04:38 PM
From my perspective as a citizen....I share your view that the speaker of the Assembly should be an elected member.....and I would humbly suggest that you serve as such for the remainder of this term.

I can't nominiate anyone....and I certainly wouldn't have a problem with Dan or Persepolis....that's my basic feeling.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 28, 2009, 02:08:12 PM
From my perspective as a citizen....I share your view that the speaker of the Assembly should be an elected member.....and I would humbly suggest that you serve as such for the remainder of this term.

I can't nominiate anyone....and I certainly wouldn't have a problem with Dan or Persepolis....that's my basic feeling.

I also think you should serve as Speaker until the next elections in order to orient our new Assemblymen and ensure a smooth transition.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 28, 2009, 02:35:18 PM
I would like fore Peter to be the Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on April 28, 2009, 03:51:20 PM
I would like fore Peter to be the Speaker.

I second that, as long as Peter wants to be speaker. He is the obvious choice, since he is the only assemblymember with any experience.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on April 30, 2009, 01:47:42 AM
In which case I accept, and will declare myself elected by acclamation.

I call on members to submit business for this Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 30, 2009, 09:58:23 AM
I think this would be good to have:

Mideast Assemblymembers Active Act of 2009
1. Any member of the Assembly that miss more then three votes in the Assembly shall be removed from the Assembly and replace with another member by the appointment of the Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 30, 2009, 10:47:33 AM
You should change it to consecutive votes and allow for certain leniency, like if you will be unable to you have to alert the speaker or by public post. You would also have to set the time that votes last. They have, in the past, been pretty arbitrary and last until enough votes are achieved.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 30, 2009, 11:59:07 AM
Quote

Mideast Assemblymembers Active Act of 2009
1. Any member of the Assembly that miss more then three consecutive votes in  the Assembly shall be removed from the Assembly and replace with another member by the appointment of the Governor.
2. If a member of the Assembly knows they will be unable to post for any length of time, they shall post a public post saying so or notify the Speaker of the Assembly.
3. All votes shall last for 72 hours from the time the Speaker started the voting.
4. The Speaker will be in charge of keeping track of how many votes a Assembly member has missed.

How does that sound?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on April 30, 2009, 12:04:49 PM
to Section 2: I think you need to add that missed votes that are announced prior to any absence are excused and don't count towards the 3 vote rule.

to Section 3: I'd add 72 hours maximum. There are many cases in which all members vote quickly...so it shouldn't be necessary for it to last 3 days regardless.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 30, 2009, 12:15:19 PM
Quote

Mideast Assemblymembers Active Act of 2009
1. Any member of the Assembly that miss more then three consecutive votes in  the Assembly shall be removed from the Assembly and replace with another member by the appointment of the Governor.
2. If a member of the Assembly knows they will be unable to post for any length of time, they shall post a public post saying so or notify the Speaker of the Assembly. If they do so any votes missed during that time period shall not count against them.
3. All votes shall last for a maximum of 72 hours from the time the Speaker started the voting.
4. The Speaker will be in charge of keeping track of how many votes an Assembly member has missed.

What about now?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on April 30, 2009, 12:34:35 PM
It's written to a point where it makes sense. That's good. I'm not sure personally where I stand on the content.....seems kind of harsh to me. After all, we are talking about people that were elected. Add to that the fact that we have trouble finding members for the Assembly even without this kind of rule.

Feel free to have it discussed in the Assembly, though. That's your job, and it's great to see you doing it.

Just an alternative suggestion, however, in the event that your proposal does not gain sufficient support in the Assembly: You could propose that in the event that a member misses 3 consecutive votes that a recall vote is held to allow the citizens of the Mideast to decide whether the assemblyman in question deserves being removed from office. Just a though.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 30, 2009, 01:14:17 PM
Just an alternative suggestion, however, in the event that your proposal does not gain sufficient support in the Assembly: You could propose that in the event that a member misses 3 consecutive votes that a recall vote is held to allow the citizens of the Mideast to decide whether the assemblyman in question deserves being removed from office. Just a though.



Just as a note, that may require a constitutional amendment. I am not stating where I come down on any of this for now, but I'll help serve as a record of fact type of thing.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on April 30, 2009, 01:27:24 PM
We could always edit it to say recall election, but I will wait to see what the other Assembly members think.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on April 30, 2009, 01:43:29 PM
I think any proposal which would cause the removal of an Assembly member will need to be a Constitutional Amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on April 30, 2009, 06:11:57 PM
I am absolutely opposed to removing a person from office for such an infraction, but I have no problem with the original bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 02, 2009, 03:10:23 AM
Just to weigh in on the Constitutionality of all of this.  It would require an amendment if you wanted an automatic recall; however, if you simply remove the person from office, you could argue that it falls under the "judge the qualifications" clause of the powers of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 03, 2009, 01:38:25 AM
Just to weigh in on the Constitutionality of all of this.  It would require an amendment if you wanted an automatic recall; however, if you simply remove the person from office, you could argue that it falls under the "judge the qualifications" clause of the powers of the Assembly.

I still think it goes against the spirit of the Constitution and the spirit of the position. We, as assemblymembers, will get around to voting, but setting a time limit constrains the process.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 03, 2009, 02:04:44 PM
We can table this and move on to something else you guys want to.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 03, 2009, 02:15:04 PM
I think the idea is worth looking at and could be developed, with some added nuance, to a workable piece; however, I would recommend that be done after more substantive legislation is passed.

I would recommend implementation of a regional workers' rights policy. That is something I am currently working on developing for the Senate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 03, 2009, 09:43:38 PM
I think the idea is worth looking at and could be developed, with some added nuance, to a workable piece; however, I would recommend that be done after more substantive legislation is passed.

I would recommend implementation of a regional workers' rights policy. That is something I am currently working on developing for the Senate.

Well, if it passes in the Senate, we would obviously not need to pass it here. Maybe we should wait for that bill to pass or fail in Senate, and then work on it here if it fails. There is no need to pass a bill regionally that the national government passes.
I suggest we begin work on a bill that bans abortion in the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 03, 2009, 09:58:30 PM
Persepolis write something up.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 04, 2009, 10:49:38 PM
Mideast Abortion Law

1. All forms of abortion are banned in the Mideast.
     i. Abortion is defined as the premature termination of a pregnancy not due to a risk that could cause serious damage to the mother or the fetus.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 04, 2009, 11:29:56 PM
Mideast Abortion Law

1. All forms of abortion are banned in the Mideast.
     i. Abortion is defined as the premature termination of a pregnancy not due to a risk that could cause serious damage to the mother or the fetus.

Just a note - you should probably change that to have some sort of medical terminology, otherwise an accidental termination (miscarriage) would be illegal.

Also, what would the punishment for abortion be?

EDIT: Also, Roe v. Wade would have to be overturned by the court for this to be valid (unless there's been a more recent case in Atlasia).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 04, 2009, 11:35:35 PM
Mideast Abortion Law

1. All forms of abortion are banned in the Mideast.
     i. Abortion is defined as the premature termination of a pregnancy not due to a risk that could cause serious damage to the mother or the fetus.

Just a note - you should probably change that to have some sort of medical terminology, otherwise an accidental termination (miscarriage) would be illegal.

Also, what would the punishment for abortion be?

Both things you just mentioned are tings that crossed my mind when writing it. I thought I could get some help on those parts because I have no idea what a sufficient punishment would be for abortion.

Rewritten:
 1. All forms of abortion are banned in the Mideast.
     i. Abortion is defined as the premature and intentional termination of a pregnancy not due to a risk that could cause serious damage to the mother or the fetus.
2. The punisment for committing said crime would be (???)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 04, 2009, 11:53:18 PM
As a citizen of the Mideast, I cannot support the measure banning abortion currently on the table. It is far too broad and sweeping, completely abolishing a woman's right to choose.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 05, 2009, 12:01:57 AM
As a citizen of the Mideast, I cannot support the measure banning abortion currently on the table. It is far too broad and sweeping, completely abolishing a woman's right to choose.

There are certain choices people cannot have. We do not have the right to choose whether or not we kill someone. Abortion is akin to that. Women should not have the right to take someone's life.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 05, 2009, 12:04:14 AM
As a citizen of the Mideast, I cannot support the measure banning abortion currently on the table. It is far too broad and sweeping, completely abolishing a woman's right to choose.

There are certain choices people cannot have. We do not have the right to choose whether or not we kill someone. Abortion is akin to that. Women should not have the right to take someone's life.

That is only if you believe life begins at conception. The potential for life is not life and is only as valuable as the one with the power over that potential ascribes to it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 05, 2009, 12:07:36 AM
As a citizen of the Mideast, I cannot support the measure banning abortion currently on the table. It is far too broad and sweeping, completely abolishing a woman's right to choose.

There are certain choices people cannot have. We do not have the right to choose whether or not we kill someone. Abortion is akin to that. Women should not have the right to take someone's life.

That is only if you believe life begins at conception. The potential for life is not life and is only as valuable as the one with the power over that potential ascribes to it.

Women give birth, but are not divine. They should not have the choice of killing a defenseless human being, whether they feel a sense that they own the individual or not. The fetus has the right to survive, and, once conceived, should not have that right taken away from itself.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 05, 2009, 12:12:38 AM
As a citizen of the Mideast, I cannot support the measure banning abortion currently on the table. It is far too broad and sweeping, completely abolishing a woman's right to choose.

There are certain choices people cannot have. We do not have the right to choose whether or not we kill someone. Abortion is akin to that. Women should not have the right to take someone's life.

That is only if you believe life begins at conception. The potential for life is not life and is only as valuable as the one with the power over that potential ascribes to it.

Women give birth, but are not divine. They should not have the choice of killing a defenseless human being, whether they feel a sense that they own the individual or not. The fetus has the right to survive, and, once conceived, should not have that right taken away from itself.

I would argue you are mischaracterizing the potential for life (the fetus) for actual life (a baby). It is not a woman's right to take life, but a woman may control her own power over the potential for life. A woman is, in fact, divine insofar as it pertains to her power of creation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on May 05, 2009, 06:46:49 AM
In the sad eventuality that this crap passes, I plan to push for a public referendum.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on May 05, 2009, 07:12:36 AM
In the sad eventuality that this crap passes, I plan to push for a public referendum.

Supported.

Persepolis, personal belief can be respected, but that is all it is. It cannot, in this form be the basis for public law. Any moves to ban abortion will be met with severe opposition. Your position will also be met with severe opposition and you're just in the door...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 05, 2009, 07:20:35 AM
I am personally a pro-lifer but this legislation is too big.  To do this would needlessly persecute women, alot of times for things that simply should not be a crime.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 05, 2009, 10:06:20 AM


Rewritten:
 1. All forms of abortion are banned in the Mideast.
     i. Abortion is defined as the premature and intentional termination of a pregnancy not due to a risk that could cause serious damage to the mother or the fetus.
2. The punishment for committing said crime would be (???)

I would like it to be changed to the following, otherwise I'm going to vote against it.

Mideast Abortion Staute II

1: No abortions shall be permitted after the First trimester of a pregnancy except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest.
2: No female under the age of 18 years old shall be permitted to have an abortion without a parent/guardian consent.
3: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall have any existing license from the Mideast Region or a subdivision thereof to practice a medical profession revoked for up to five years.
4: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall be sentenced to up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000. Any person knowingly facilitating the inducement of a prohibited abortion shall be subject to a criminal fine of up to $100,000 and/or six months in prison.
5: The Mideast Abortion Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Abortion_Statute) is hereby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 05, 2009, 12:38:58 PM
Why not leave the current statute?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 05, 2009, 01:10:15 PM
EDIT: Also, Roe v. Wade would have to be overturned by the court for this to be valid (unless there's been a more recent case in Atlasia).
The precedent has been largely ignored in Atlasia, and nobody has ever gone to court to attempt to enforce it.

I cannot support a total ban.

I am happy with the existing consensus of the Abortion Statute, however, I am willing to work to achieve the best possible outcome.

My view on Dan's bill is that we should not tie a parental consent requirement to a general tightening of the time limit. I also feel that the time limit should be explicitly stated in days, though I am open to persuasion on this point.

The amendment proposed by Dan will go to vote in 24 hours, unless Persepolis accepts it as friendly before hand.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 05, 2009, 06:06:13 PM
Accepted as friendly.

I agree that Dan's version would provide a more concise definition, and would also provide some compromise to those who disagree with my original bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on May 05, 2009, 06:09:44 PM
I favour keeping the Mideast Abortion Statute intact and I still plan to take whatever is passed to a public vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 05, 2009, 08:54:46 PM

Agreed, I do not see a huge amount of difference.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on May 06, 2009, 06:25:53 AM
I would not oppose Dan's piece of legislation....nor would I oppose keeping the existing legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 06, 2009, 07:57:10 AM

Because this new one moves the timing up and I wanted sec 2 to be added.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 06, 2009, 12:39:22 PM
The legislation stands as:

Mideast Abortion Staute II

1: No abortions shall be permitted after the First trimester of a pregnancy except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest.
2: No female under the age of 18 years old shall be permitted to have an abortion without a parent/guardian consent.
3: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall have any existing license from the Mideast Region or a subdivision thereof to practice a medical profession revoked for up to five years.
4: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall be sentenced to up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000. Any person knowingly facilitating the inducement of a prohibited abortion shall be subject to a criminal fine of up to $100,000 and/or six months in prison.
5: The Mideast Abortion Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Abortion_Statute) is hereby repealed.

I motion to strike Clause 2.

24 hours debate is open. Vote in 24 hours unless there is significant debate which is worthy of continuation

My reasons are simple - I feel that parental consent should be in a separate piece of legislation, and should contain a judicial waiver option for extreme situations.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on May 06, 2009, 01:38:14 PM
What's our civil union legislation? At what age can someone have a civil union? Obviously if it's 16 etc...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 06, 2009, 01:42:15 PM
I would like a clause involving the paternal contributor in the decision, with clauses excluding forceful impregnation or sperm donors.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 06, 2009, 02:13:34 PM
The legislation stands as:

Mideast Abortion Staute II

1: No abortions shall be permitted after the First trimester of a pregnancy except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest.
2: No female under the age of 18 years old shall be permitted to have an abortion without a parent/guardian consent.
3: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall have any existing license from the Mideast Region or a subdivision thereof to practice a medical profession revoked for up to five years.
4: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall be sentenced to up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000. Any person knowingly facilitating the inducement of a prohibited abortion shall be subject to a criminal fine of up to $100,000 and/or six months in prison.
5: The Mideast Abortion Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Abortion_Statute) is hereby repealed.

I motion to strike Clause 2.

24 hours debate is open. Vote in 24 hours unless there is significant debate which is worthy of continuation

My reasons are simple - I feel that parental consent should be in a separate piece of legislation, and should contain a judicial waiver option for extreme situations.

I'm willing to take it out, as long as we make sure we piece together another legislation with it in it. Also I am willing to work with the age.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 06, 2009, 05:49:22 PM
If the marriage age stands at 18, then it would obviously mean that the age of parental consent would have to drop to 16 also. That is the only change I believe needs to be made with clause 2.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 07, 2009, 03:39:30 PM
The legislation stands as:

Mideast Abortion Staute II

1: No abortions shall be permitted after the First trimester of a pregnancy except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest.
2: No female under the age of 18 years old shall be permitted to have an abortion without a parent/guardian consent.
3: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall have any existing license from the Mideast Region or a subdivision thereof to practice a medical profession revoked for up to five years.
4: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall be sentenced to up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000. Any person knowingly facilitating the inducement of a prohibited abortion shall be subject to a criminal fine of up to $100,000 and/or six months in prison.
5: The Mideast Abortion Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Abortion_Statute) is hereby repealed.

I motion to strike Clause 2.

24 hours debate is open. Vote in 24 hours unless there is significant debate which is worthy of continuation

My reasons are simple - I feel that parental consent should be in a separate piece of legislation, and should contain a judicial waiver option for extreme situations.

This needs to go to vote today.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 08, 2009, 12:52:17 PM
The vote is on the motion. Please vote; Vote open for 48 hours or until conclusive majority.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 08, 2009, 01:42:00 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 08, 2009, 03:58:07 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 08, 2009, 07:29:03 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 09, 2009, 02:35:43 AM
If all of you supported the motion, why didn't you just accept it as a friendly amendment?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 09, 2009, 07:59:34 AM
The motion carries. The bill now stands as:
Mideast Abortion Staute II

1: No abortions shall be permitted after the First trimester of a pregnancy except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest.
2: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall have any existing license from the Mideast Region or a subdivision thereof to practice a medical profession revoked for up to five years.
3: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall be sentenced to up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000. Any person knowingly facilitating the inducement of a prohibited abortion shall be subject to a criminal fine of up to $100,000 and/or six months in prison.
4: The Mideast Abortion Statute is hereby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 09, 2009, 08:03:18 AM
If all of you supported the motion, why didn't you just accept it as a friendly amendment?

I was think the same thing after the voting started, but oh well.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 09, 2009, 08:06:42 AM
The motion carries. The bill now stands as:
Mideast Abortion Staute II

1: No abortions shall be permitted after the First trimester of a pregnancy except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest.
2: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall have any existing license from the Mideast Region or a subdivision thereof to practice a medical profession revoked for up to five years.
3: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall be sentenced to up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000. Any person knowingly facilitating the inducement of a prohibited abortion shall be subject to a criminal fine of up to $100,000 and/or six months in prison.
4: The Mideast Abortion Statute is hereby repealed.


Should we go ahead and vote on it?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 09, 2009, 03:04:09 PM
There is a motion to proceed to vote. Does Persepolis object?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 09, 2009, 07:27:07 PM
No objection.

Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 10, 2009, 05:53:58 AM
The vote is on the bill above. Persepolis has voted Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 10, 2009, 09:44:35 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 11, 2009, 01:28:16 PM
Nay.

The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it.

Mideast Abortion Staute II

1: No abortions shall be permitted after the First trimester of a pregnancy except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest.
2: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall have any existing license from the Mideast Region or a subdivision thereof to practice a medical profession revoked for up to five years.
3: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall be sentenced to up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000. Any person knowingly facilitating the inducement of a prohibited abortion shall be subject to a criminal fine of up to $100,000 and/or six months in prison.
4: The Mideast Abortion Statute is hereby repealed.
The above bill passes and is transmitted to the Governor for his signature or veto.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 11, 2009, 01:30:55 PM
So this actually makes the current statute more lenient by reducing penalties. Fair enough.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 11, 2009, 01:49:48 PM
If any citizen of the Mideast wants to write a bill up, just PM it to me and I'll post it for you are post it here.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 11, 2009, 06:47:42 PM
Absolutely. Feel free to approach us anytime and we will submit the bill for you.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 11, 2009, 08:13:47 PM
I was going to wait until the Governor signed the bill that passed, but I'll go ahead and put this out. Deeds for Governor PMed me this and asked me to send this to the Assembly.

The Ben Constine Memorial Act

1.  Whereas Ben Constine held the position of Lt. Governor for the longest period in Mideast history, and;
2.  Whereas Ben Constine served two terms as Governor, during which time he wrote landmark legislation on improving higher education for Mideast citizens;
3.  The Mideast shall erect a statue to the former Governor in his home city of Arlington, Virginia, by the end of 2010.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on May 11, 2009, 08:26:51 PM
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

NO.

Fail.

NO.

Nann. Nyet. Ez. Ne. La. Nein.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 11, 2009, 08:28:46 PM
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

NO.

Fail.

NO.

Nann. Nyet. Ez. Ne. La. Nein.

I didn't come up with it, I was asked to bring it to the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 11, 2009, 08:34:59 PM
I feel I deserve recognition ;D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on May 11, 2009, 08:35:53 PM

Nann.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 11, 2009, 08:40:24 PM

Lol, nice. Only if the memorial gets to include you with handcuffs behind your back.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 11, 2009, 08:45:13 PM

Lol, nice. Only if the memorial gets to include you with handcuffs behind your back.

I'm cool with that.  As long as it does include the positive achivements, too ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 11, 2009, 09:36:14 PM

Then perhaps I should get one too.  No I am only kidding of course, however I do feel Inks does deserve one after he departs office.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 11, 2009, 10:34:53 PM

Then perhaps I should get one too.  No I am only kidding of course, however I do feel Inks does deserve one after he departs office.

I find it funny that you think I'm ever going to leave.  :P

But seriously - thank you for the kind words.

Also, the bill has been signed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 12, 2009, 12:12:11 AM
Fantastic on the signing of the first bill I have worked on as an officeholder.

By the way, I state my opposition to the Ben Constine Memorial Act.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 12, 2009, 07:08:41 AM

Then perhaps I should get one too.  No I am only kidding of course, however I do feel Inks does deserve one after he departs office.

I find it funny that you think I'm ever going to leave.  :P

But seriously - thank you for the kind words.

Also, the bill has been signed.

By the way Inks I am sorry I ran againest you all those years ago and expelled you from office.  However I did need something to start me off in Atlasia right? ;)  And I think I have done some admirable service for the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 12, 2009, 07:52:02 AM
Fantastic on the signing of the first bill I have worked on as an officeholder.

By the way, I state my opposition to the Ben Constine Memorial Act.

Ditto


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 12, 2009, 08:36:59 AM
I was going to wait until the Governor signed the bill that passed, but I'll go ahead and put this out. Deeds for Governor PMed me this and asked me to send this to the Assembly.

The Ben Constine Memorial Act

1.  Whereas Ben Constine held the position of Lt. Governor for the longest period in Mideast history, and;
2.  Whereas Ben Constine served two terms as Governor, during which time he wrote landmark legislation on improving higher education for Mideast citizens;
3.  The Mideast shall erect a statue to the former Governor in his home city of Arlington, Virginia, by the end of 2010.

Since there is no support for this, including myself, I will table this bill that Deeds for Governor asked me to bring before the Assembly, sorry Deeds.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 12, 2009, 08:45:20 AM
To keep things moving, I would like to bring this before the Assembly:

The following shall be added to the Mideast Constitution in Article III Secton 1:
"7. If the Governor of the Mideast can not find a citizen of the Mideast to fill the vacant seat then the Governor can serve as a member of the Assembly until he finds a citizen to fill the vacant seat."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 12, 2009, 12:47:44 PM
I object to that... Separation of powers. I would rather a vacant seat.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 12, 2009, 12:58:02 PM
I oppose this.  The Governor is separate from the Assembly, and it should always stay that way.

Plus, I'm mad that my Memorial isn't going to be passed :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 12, 2009, 02:06:59 PM
I oppose both bills.

I would like to propose the following bill:

Mideast Pornography Statute II
It shall be legal for all persons aged fourteen years or older to possess, view and buy pornography, depicting only persons aged eighteen years or older.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 12, 2009, 02:09:10 PM
I oppose both bills.

I would like to propose the following bill:

Mideast Pornography Statute II
It shall be legal for all persons aged fourteen years or older to possess, view and buy pornography, depicting only persons aged eighteen years or older.

First we are giving Ben a monument, now access to porn?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 12, 2009, 03:48:01 PM
I oppose both bills.

I would like to propose the following bill:

Mideast Pornography Statute II
It shall be legal for all persons aged fourteen years or older to possess, view and buy pornography, depicting only persons aged eighteen years or older.

Why? There isn't any reason to lower the age for viewing like that. I'll oppose this one....

To keep things moving, I would like to bring this before the Assembly:

The following shall be added to the Mideast Constitution in Article III Secton 1:
"7. If the Governor of the Mideast can not find a citizen of the Mideast to fill the vacant seat then the Governor can serve as a member of the Assembly until he finds a citizen to fill the vacant seat."

and this one, because of this:
I object to that... Separation of powers. I would rather a vacant seat.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 12, 2009, 03:50:17 PM
Persepolis do you have something that you would like to bring before the Assembly?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 12, 2009, 03:54:38 PM
Persepolis do you have something that you would like to bring before the Assembly?

At this point, nothing. I'm working on something though, and I'll get it out soon enough.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 12, 2009, 04:13:14 PM
The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Statute

1. Whereas, the consumption of marijuana is legal, in accordance with FL 6-19, the Marijuana Legalization and Taxation Act.

2. A sales tax of 30% will be collected on any marijuana sale.

3. The Mideast Marijuana Legalization Statute is hereby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 12, 2009, 04:22:55 PM
I oppose both bills.

I would like to propose the following bill:

Mideast Pornography Statute II
It shall be legal for all persons aged fourteen years or older to possess, view and buy pornography, depicting only persons aged eighteen years or older.

First we are giving Ben a monument, now access to porn?

I am 16, you know :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on May 12, 2009, 04:28:32 PM
16 = 14 or older ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 12, 2009, 06:03:02 PM
I oppose both bills.

I would like to propose the following bill:

Mideast Pornography Statute II
It shall be legal for all persons aged fourteen years or older to possess, view and buy pornography, depicting only persons aged eighteen years or older.

I will support this if you change the age to 16.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 12, 2009, 06:04:22 PM
The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Statute

1. Whereas, the consumption of marijuana is legal, in accordance with FL 6-19, the Marijuana Legalization and Taxation Act.

2. A sales tax of 30% will be collected on any marijuana sale.

3. The Mideast Marijuana Legalization Statute is hereby repealed.

That seems fair.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 12, 2009, 06:08:37 PM
The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Statute

1. Whereas, the consumption of marijuana is legal, in accordance with FL 6-19, the Marijuana Legalization and Taxation Act.

2. A sales tax of 30% will be collected on any marijuana sale.

3. The Mideast Marijuana Legalization Statute is hereby repealed.

I request a vote. Does Peter have any objections?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 12, 2009, 07:08:49 PM
I oppose both bills.

I would like to propose the following bill:

Mideast Pornography Statute II
It shall be legal for all persons aged fourteen years or older to possess, view and buy pornography, depicting only persons aged eighteen years or older.

I will support this if you change the age to 16.

That's what the age is currently. Maybe we should raise it to 18 so Ben can't have access. Hmmm...

;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 12, 2009, 11:27:59 PM

Then perhaps I should get one too.  No I am only kidding of course, however I do feel Inks does deserve one after he departs office.

I find it funny that you think I'm ever going to leave.  :P

But seriously - thank you for the kind words.

Also, the bill has been signed.

By the way Inks I am sorry I ran againest you all those years ago and expelled you from office.  However I did need something to start me off in Atlasia right? ;)  And I think I have done some admirable service for the Mideast.

It has been an honor to have you serving in the Senate on our behalf.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 13, 2009, 01:17:06 PM
I would prefer to deal with matters in order of submission.

1. Ben Constine Memorial Act (author: Dan) - publically opposed by Peter and Persepolis
2. Constitutional Amendment for unfillable vacant Assembly seats (author: Dan) - I think this may be workable in some form, but am unsure how it can be done without a separation of powers issue.
3. Pornography II (author: Peter) - publically opposed by Dan.
4. Marijuana Taxation (author: Persepolis)

I would state that I do consider the Constine Memorial somewhat frivolous, and so I would request its author to withdraw rather than waste time on a vote. I am open to suggestions on the Constitutional Amendment, but as above, am unsure how to make it workable.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 13, 2009, 01:25:11 PM
I was going to wait until the Governor signed the bill that passed, but I'll go ahead and put this out. Deeds for Governor PMed me this and asked me to send this to the Assembly.

The Ben Constine Memorial Act

1.  Whereas Ben Constine held the position of Lt. Governor for the longest period in Mideast history, and;
2.  Whereas Ben Constine served two terms as Governor, during which time he wrote landmark legislation on improving higher education for Mideast citizens;
3.  The Mideast shall erect a statue to the former Governor in his home city of Arlington, Virginia, by the end of 2010.

I withdraw this because I don't support it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 13, 2009, 01:27:47 PM
So noted.

Are there any amendments or debate for the Constitutional Amendment?
If there is no significant action within 24 hours I will move to vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 13, 2009, 01:40:52 PM
To keep things moving, I would like to bring this before the Assembly:

The following shall be added to the Mideast Constitution in Article III Secton 1:
"7. If the Governor of the Mideast can not find a citizen of the Mideast to fill the vacant seat then the Governor can serve as a member of the Assembly until he finds a citizen to fill the vacant seat."

I would like to change this to the following:

The following shall be added to the Mideast Constitution in Article III Secton 1:
"7. If the Governor of the Mideast can not find a citizen of the Mideast to fill the vacant seat of the Assembly, then the Governor is giving an active vote, only when the vote is split between the remaining two Assembly members."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 13, 2009, 06:45:29 PM
Well, that is the same thing, since his vote would only matter in a swing situation anyway. However, that clarifies the plan a bit better, and I state my partial approval. However, I feel that a governor could, not necessarily this one, but a power hungry one, keep the seat to himself, and not bother to look for a replacement. I think the assembly should vote whether the governor taking that position is justified, with only the two existing Senators getting a vote. If they feel that situation is not justified, then the can show that and curb the power of the government.

Rewritten:
7. If the Governor of the Mideast can not find a citizen of the Mideast to fill the vacant seat of the Assembly, then the Governor is giving an active vote, only when the vote is split between the remaining two Assembly members.
   7a) Upon declaring himself/herself eligible for the assembly, the governor must be subject to an assembly vote to ascertain whether the governor is acting within his/her power to control that seat.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 13, 2009, 06:53:46 PM
Well, that is the same thing, since his vote would only matter in a swing situation anyway. However, that clarifies the plan a bit better, and I state my partial approval. However, I feel that a governor could, not necessarily this one, but a power hungry one, keep the seat to himself, and not bother to look for a replacement. I think the assembly should vote whether the governor taking that position is justified, with only the two existing Senators getting a vote. If they feel that situation is not justified, then the can show that and curb the power of the government.

Rewritten:
7. If the Governor of the Mideast can not find a citizen of the Mideast to fill the vacant seat of the Assembly, then the Governor is giving an active vote, only when the vote is split between the remaining two Assembly members.
   7a) Upon declaring himself/herself eligible for the assembly, the governor must be subject to an assembly vote to ascertain whether the governor is acting within his/her power to control that seat.

The governor would only be able to vote in a tie, that is it. Just like the United States' Vice President does. Only vote in a tie, but the Governor can only vote when there is a vacant seat.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 13, 2009, 06:56:08 PM
Well, that is the same thing, since his vote would only matter in a swing situation anyway. However, that clarifies the plan a bit better, and I state my partial approval. However, I feel that a governor could, not necessarily this one, but a power hungry one, keep the seat to himself, and not bother to look for a replacement. I think the assembly should vote whether the governor taking that position is justified, with only the two existing Senators getting a vote. If they feel that situation is not justified, then the can show that and curb the power of the government.

Rewritten:
7. If the Governor of the Mideast can not find a citizen of the Mideast to fill the vacant seat of the Assembly, then the Governor is giving an active vote, only when the vote is split between the remaining two Assembly members.
   7a) Upon declaring himself/herself eligible for the assembly, the governor must be subject to an assembly vote to ascertain whether the governor is acting within his/her power to control that seat.

The governor would only be able to vote in a tie, that is it. Just like the United States' Vice President does. Only vote in a tie, but the Governor can only vote when there is a vacant seat.

That is equivalent to having an assembly seat, for all intents and purposes. He has a vote in ties, and when it is 2-0, it wouldn't matter what he voted. However, what I am saying is that a governor could abuse his power by not actually looking for a replacement and just taking up the assembly position himself.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 13, 2009, 07:04:41 PM
That's unconstitutional becaue it violates the federal constitution which states you can't hold more than 2 elected offices, even on the regional level.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 13, 2009, 07:07:57 PM
That's unconstitutional because it violates the federal constitution which states you can't hold more than 2 elected offices, even on the regional level.

Well, you will not be holding an offices, you will just have the power to vote in the Assembly if there is a tie when there is a vacant seat. The Governor will not be able to vote any other time when there is a vacant seat, only in a tie.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 13, 2009, 07:15:08 PM


The following shall be added to the Mideast Constitution in Article III Secton 1:
"7. When there is a vacant seat in the Assembly the Governor is given the power to vote in the Assembly when there is a tie, the Governor is not given the power to vote anyother time when there is a vacant seat. Once the vacant seat is filled the power is taken away from the Governor"

What about this?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 13, 2009, 07:19:26 PM
It still does not solve my problem, which is the situation where the governor chooses not to fill that vacant seat, and keeps the power to himself. AND, if this is unconstitutional, this makes everything a moot point anyway.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 13, 2009, 07:24:05 PM
It still does not solve my problem, which is the situation where the governor chooses not to fill that vacant seat, and keeps the power to himself. AND, if this is unconstitutional, this makes everything a moot point anyway.

I guess we need to want for Peter to see what he says.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 13, 2009, 07:25:30 PM
It still does not solve my problem, which is the situation where the governor chooses not to fill that vacant seat, and keeps the power to himself. AND, if this is unconstitutional, this makes everything a moot point anyway.

I guess we need to want for Peter to see what he says.

Assuming you mean "we need to wait" for him, then yes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 13, 2009, 07:27:12 PM
It still does not solve my problem, which is the situation where the governor chooses not to fill that vacant seat, and keeps the power to himself. AND, if this is unconstitutional, this makes everything a moot point anyway.

I guess we need to want for Peter to see what he says.

Assuming you mean "we need to wait" for him, then yes.

Wow, yes I mean wait. Trying to watch T.V. and type at the same time isn't very good.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 13, 2009, 07:29:28 PM
It still does not solve my problem, which is the situation where the governor chooses not to fill that vacant seat, and keeps the power to himself. AND, if this is unconstitutional, this makes everything a moot point anyway.

I guess we need to want for Peter to see what he says.

Assuming you mean "we need to wait" for him, then yes.

Wow, yes I mean wait. Trying to watch T.V. and type at the same time isn't very good.

Yeah, not a good idea. :p
Are there any other bills you want to introduce in the meantime?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 13, 2009, 07:29:52 PM
I fully oppose this.  It provides the Governor no incentive to find a replacement, and is a clear violation of the separation of powers.  It should be voted down, immediately.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 13, 2009, 07:31:17 PM
It still does not solve my problem, which is the situation where the governor chooses not to fill that vacant seat, and keeps the power to himself. AND, if this is unconstitutional, this makes everything a moot point anyway.

I guess we need to want for Peter to see what he says.

Assuming you mean "we need to wait" for him, then yes.

Wow, yes I mean wait. Trying to watch T.V. and type at the same time isn't very good.

Yeah, not a good idea. :p
Are there any other bills you want to introduce in the meantime?

Well, no. Most of the times a bill idea comes to me when I am in the shower taking a shower. :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 13, 2009, 07:35:22 PM
I fully oppose this.  It provides the Governor no incentive to find a replacement, and is a clear violation of the separation of powers.  It should be voted down, immediately.

I agree, and that's the point I have been trying to make.

It still does not solve my problem, which is the situation where the governor chooses not to fill that vacant seat, and keeps the power to himself. AND, if this is unconstitutional, this makes everything a moot point anyway.

I guess we need to want for Peter to see what he says.

Assuming you mean "we need to wait" for him, then yes.

Wow, yes I mean wait. Trying to watch T.V. and type at the same time isn't very good.

Yeah, not a good idea. :p
Are there any other bills you want to introduce in the meantime?

Well, no. Most of the times a bill idea comes to me when I am in the shower taking a shower. :D

Haha. OK. Do any citizens have anything they want to see being brought up to the assembly?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 13, 2009, 07:37:01 PM
I fully oppose this.  It provides the Governor no incentive to find a replacement, and is a clear violation of the separation of powers.  It should be voted down, immediately.

Well, the constitution current doesn't have any in it now that gives the governor incentive to find a replacement. It just say that the Governor appoint an Assembly member if there is a vacant seat. It doesn't say what happens if he doesn't do it. Also it isn't violation of the separation of powers because our current Atlasia constitution gives the right for the Vice President to vote in case of a tie in the senate. This would be the same thing but only when it is a tie when there is a vacant seat.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 13, 2009, 07:45:26 PM
I fully oppose this.  It provides the Governor no incentive to find a replacement, and is a clear violation of the separation of powers.  It should be voted down, immediately.

Well, the constitution current doesn't have any in it now that gives the governor incentive to find a replacement. It just say that the Governor appoint an Assembly member if there is a vacant seat. It doesn't say what happens if he doesn't do it. Also it isn't violation of the separation of powers because our current Atlasia constitution gives the right for the Vice President to vote in case of a tie in the senate. This would be the same thing but only when it is a tie when there is a vacant seat.

He could be recalled for failing to do his constitutional duties.

Personally, I'm opposed to this, but if you decide to go through with it, I'd ask the Attorney General for an opinion on the constitutionality of this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 13, 2009, 08:04:36 PM
I fully oppose this.  It provides the Governor no incentive to find a replacement, and is a clear violation of the separation of powers.  It should be voted down, immediately.

Well, the constitution current doesn't have any in it now that gives the governor incentive to find a replacement. It just say that the Governor appoint an Assembly member if there is a vacant seat. It doesn't say what happens if he doesn't do it. Also it isn't violation of the separation of powers because our current Atlasia constitution gives the right for the Vice President to vote in case of a tie in the senate. This would be the same thing but only when it is a tie when there is a vacant seat.

He could be recalled for failing to do his constitutional duties.

Personally, I'm opposed to this, but if you decide to go through with it, I'd ask the Attorney General for an opinion on the constitutionality of this.

He would be recalled, but there is no need to pass a bill which provides governors the incentive to do something that could get them recalled.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 13, 2009, 08:15:41 PM
I fully oppose this.  It provides the Governor no incentive to find a replacement, and is a clear violation of the separation of powers.  It should be voted down, immediately.

Well, the constitution current doesn't have any in it now that gives the governor incentive to find a replacement. It just say that the Governor appoint an Assembly member if there is a vacant seat. It doesn't say what happens if he doesn't do it. Also it isn't violation of the separation of powers because our current Atlasia constitution gives the right for the Vice President to vote in case of a tie in the senate. This would be the same thing but only when it is a tie when there is a vacant seat.

He could be recalled for failing to do his constitutional duties.

Personally, I'm opposed to this, but if you decide to go through with it, I'd ask the Attorney General for an opinion on the constitutionality of this.

He would be recalled, but there is no need to pass a bill which provides governors the incentive to do something that could get them recalled.

No - I was talking about the current constitution, not the amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 13, 2009, 08:17:24 PM
I fully oppose this.  It provides the Governor no incentive to find a replacement, and is a clear violation of the separation of powers.  It should be voted down, immediately.

Well, the constitution current doesn't have any in it now that gives the governor incentive to find a replacement. It just say that the Governor appoint an Assembly member if there is a vacant seat. It doesn't say what happens if he doesn't do it. Also it isn't violation of the separation of powers because our current Atlasia constitution gives the right for the Vice President to vote in case of a tie in the senate. This would be the same thing but only when it is a tie when there is a vacant seat.

He could be recalled for failing to do his constitutional duties.

Personally, I'm opposed to this, but if you decide to go through with it, I'd ask the Attorney General for an opinion on the constitutionality of this.

He would be recalled, but there is no need to pass a bill which provides governors the incentive to do something that could get them recalled.

No - I was talking about the current constitution, not the amendment.

I was just talking about the bill's major drawback apart from the constitutionality, actually.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on May 14, 2009, 11:44:37 AM
I've taken a look at this and I don't think it violates Section 1 ; Clause 1 of Article V in the Constitution, if it does you would also have to argue the Vice President violates that clause by holding the power of a tie-breaking vote in the Senate, it's basically the same principle here, you're not granting the Governor a seat in the assembly, merely giving them the power of the tie breaker.

I have some personal concerns about it, maybe a time limit of these abilities would be wise so the Governor doesn't simply wait for tie breakers all the time, but there is nothing in there that violates separation of powers or the dual office holding rule.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 14, 2009, 11:59:21 AM
I've taken a look at this and I don't think it violates Section 1 ; Clause 1 of Article V in the Constitution, if it does you would also have to argue the Vice President violates that clause by holding the power of a tie-breaking vote in the Senate, it's basically the same principle here, you're not granting the Governor a seat in the assembly, merely giving them the power of the tie breaker.

I have some personal concerns about it, maybe a time limit of these abilities would be wise so the Governor doesn't simply wait for tie breakers all the time, but there is nothing in there that violates separation of powers or the dual office holding rule.

Thank you AG for taking the time to look over this. I will try to work something out about a time limit, but I think it might be better if it is put into Section 1/6 of Article III.




Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 14, 2009, 12:05:29 PM
Mr. Speaker, I would like my change the current amendment to the following(if I can):

Quote
The following shall be added to the Mideast Constitution in Article III Section 1/6:
6. Vacancies in the Assembly shall be filled in a manner specified by Law, and until such determination is made, by Gubernatorial appointment within one week of the seat becoming vacant. If the Governor doesn't fill the seat within one week of the seat becoming vacant, then the Assembly will call to order a recall election due to the Governor failing to do his/her constitutional duties.

The following shall be added to the Mideast Constitution in Article III Secton 1:
"7. When there is a vacant seat in the Assembly the Governor is given the power to vote in the Assembly when there is a tie, the Governor is not given the power to vote anyother time when there is a vacant seat. Once the vacant seat is filled the power is taken away from the Governor"

I'm willing to work with the time frame in Sec 1/6.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 14, 2009, 02:16:05 PM
I am afraid I am yet to see a version that I could vote in favour of.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 14, 2009, 02:25:59 PM
I am afraid I am yet to see a version that I could vote in favour of.

What would you like to see in a version? Work with me here, Mr. Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 14, 2009, 05:26:24 PM
Actually, I see where he is coming from. I don't want to recall a governor over this, nor do I want to see a governor abusing his powers and choosing not to fill the seat. I think all of this change is just unnecessary.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 14, 2009, 06:46:08 PM
Actually, I see where he is coming from. I don't want to recall a governor over this, nor do I want to see a governor abusing his powers and choosing not to fill the seat. I think all of this change is just unnecessary.

Currently, if the Governor doesn't fill a vacant seat he can still get recalled. This is so that the Assembly will be able to keep moving during all times. We don't want the Assembly to stall because there is a vacant seat and the other two Assembly member are split on a bill. Also it is kinda stupid to think a governor will abuse his power, because under this he doesn't have much power in the Assembly when there is a vacant seat. He only has power when there is a vacant seat and the vote for a said thing is tied between the other two Assembly members.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 14, 2009, 07:33:31 PM
Actually, I see where he is coming from. I don't want to recall a governor over this, nor do I want to see a governor abusing his powers and choosing not to fill the seat. I think all of this change is just unnecessary.

Currently, if the Governor doesn't fill a vacant seat he can still get recalled. This is so that the Assembly will be able to keep moving during all times. We don't want the Assembly to stall because there is a vacant seat and the other two Assembly member are split on a bill. Also it is kinda stupid to think a governor will abuse his power, because under this he doesn't have much power in the Assembly when there is a vacant seat. He only has power when there is a vacant seat and the vote for a said thing is tied between the other two Assembly members.

I repeat, the power to break a tie is equivalent to the power we, as assemblymembers, have now, except he can't introduce legislature. If there isn't a tie between you and Peter, my vote won't count anyway.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 14, 2009, 09:06:38 PM
Actually, I see where he is coming from. I don't want to recall a governor over this, nor do I want to see a governor abusing his powers and choosing not to fill the seat. I think all of this change is just unnecessary.

Currently, if the Governor doesn't fill a vacant seat he can still get recalled. This is so that the Assembly will be able to keep moving during all times. We don't want the Assembly to stall because there is a vacant seat and the other two Assembly member are split on a bill. Also it is kinda stupid to think a governor will abuse his power, because under this he doesn't have much power in the Assembly when there is a vacant seat. He only has power when there is a vacant seat and the vote for a said thing is tied between the other two Assembly members.

I repeat, the power to break a tie is equivalent to the power we, as assemblymembers, have now, except he can't introduce legislature. If there isn't a tie between you and Peter, my vote won't count anyway.

The Governor can introduce legislature already. Also I repeat, the Governor is only given this power to break a tie when there is a vacancy in the Assembly. Most likely this will never happen, but like in our own senate, this is a good thing to have to keep the Assembly moving when there is a vacancy and the remaining two members split their vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 14, 2009, 11:01:45 PM
The governor shouldn't wield legislative power. The governor could choose not to fill the position. That would mean he could be the deciding factor in many votes. Really, it muddles the separation of powers.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on May 14, 2009, 11:06:25 PM
The governor shouldn't wield legislative power. The governor could choose not to fill the position. That would mean he could be the deciding factor in many votes. Really, it muddles the separation of powers.

Executive officers have limited legislative powers in very specific instances all the time. For instance, the Vice President can cast a tie breaking vote in legislation, and even function as emergency PPT upon resignations. Two legislative functions, one pretty big.

It may be irritating to have the executive poke it's head in legislative matters but it's hardly without precedent.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 14, 2009, 11:13:53 PM
The governor shouldn't wield legislative power. The governor could choose not to fill the position. That would mean he could be the deciding factor in many votes. Really, it muddles the separation of powers.

Did you not read what I have been posting?

Mr. Speaker, I would like my change the current amendment to the following(if I can):

Quote
The following shall be added to the Mideast Constitution in Article III Section 1/6:
6. Vacancies in the Assembly shall be filled in a manner specified by Law, and until such determination is made, by Gubernatorial appointment within one week of the seat becoming vacant. If the Governor doesn't fill the seat within one week of the seat becoming vacant, then the Assembly will call to order a recall election due to the Governor failing to do his/her constitutional duties.

The following shall be added to the Mideast Constitution in Article III Secton 1:
"7. When there is a vacant seat in the Assembly the Governor is given the power to vote in the Assembly when there is a tie, the Governor is not given the power to vote anyother time when there is a vacant seat. Once the vacant seat is filled the power is taken away from the Governor"

I'm willing to work with the time frame in Sec 1/6.

This gives the Governor one week to fill the vacant seat. Currently we don't have any time limits on when the Governor has to fill the seat. Also the AG already said this wouldn't over step the separation of powers.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 15, 2009, 09:23:20 AM
As an alternative, I might suggest that the Federal Mideast Senator be seconded on a temporary basis - there is no separation of powers issue and the Senator would already have a mandate from the Mideast people.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 15, 2009, 10:18:42 AM
As an alternative, I might suggest that the Federal Mideast Senator be seconded on a temporary basis - there is no separation of powers issue and the Senator would already have a mandate from the Mideast people.

I'm willing to do that, do you want to write it up or do you want me too?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 15, 2009, 10:52:57 AM
Quote
The following shall be added to the Mideast Constitution in Article III Secton 1:
"7. When there is a vacant seat in the Assembly the  Federal Mideast Senator(FMS) is given the power to vote in the Assembly when there is a tie, the FMS is not given the power to vote anyother time when there is a vacant seat. Once the vacant seat is filled by the Governor the power is taken away from the FMS"

How does that sound?



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 15, 2009, 02:01:41 PM
Mr. Speaker if you like that can we go ahead and take it to a vote. I want to have this done before elections coming up next week, so the citizen can vote on it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 15, 2009, 03:18:10 PM
Do you wish to replace your bill via friendly amendment?

If so, that is fine. A vote can be called if Persepolis does not object.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 15, 2009, 04:02:03 PM
Do you wish to replace your bill via friendly amendment?

If so, that is fine. A vote can be called if Persepolis does not object.

Yes replace my bill via friendly amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 16, 2009, 01:22:44 AM
No objection

(grumble) Nobody understood what I was trying to say....


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 16, 2009, 08:01:45 AM
The following shall be added to the Mideast Constitution in Article III Secton 1:
"7. When there is a vacant seat in the Assembly the  Federal Mideast Senator(FMS) is given the power to vote in the Assembly when there is a tie, the FMS is not given the power to vote anyother time when there is a vacant seat. Once the vacant seat is filled by the Governor the power is taken away from the FMS"
The bill stands as above. If submitted by this Assembly, it shall need the ratification of a 2/3ds supermajority of citizens voting in a public referendum.

The vote on the above bill is opened.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 16, 2009, 08:03:29 AM
Mideast Abortion Staute II

1: No abortions shall be permitted after the First trimester of a pregnancy except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest.
2: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall have any existing license from the Mideast Region or a subdivision thereof to practice a medical profession revoked for up to five years.
3: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall be sentenced to up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000. Any person knowingly facilitating the inducement of a prohibited abortion shall be subject to a criminal fine of up to $100,000 and/or six months in prison.
4: The Mideast Abortion Statute is hereby repealed.

I hereby publically protest the passage of the above act and petition for a public referendum to be held on it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on May 16, 2009, 08:25:29 AM
I petition for a public referendum on the Abortion Statute

x Hashemite


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 16, 2009, 08:33:41 AM
Aye on the bill


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on May 16, 2009, 09:34:33 AM
I also ask for a public vote on this statute

Afleitch x


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on May 16, 2009, 09:39:54 AM
X Franzl


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 16, 2009, 01:13:22 PM
Aye on the bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 16, 2009, 08:18:24 PM
Mideast Abortion Staute II

1: No abortions shall be permitted after the First trimester of a pregnancy except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest.
2: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall have any existing license from the Mideast Region or a subdivision thereof to practice a medical profession revoked for up to five years.
3: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall be sentenced to up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000. Any person knowingly facilitating the inducement of a prohibited abortion shall be subject to a criminal fine of up to $100,000 and/or six months in prison.
4: The Mideast Abortion Statute is hereby repealed.

I hereby publically protest the passage of the above act and petition for a public referendum to be held on it.

Isn't it more lenient than the previous law?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 17, 2009, 05:24:13 AM
Mideast Abortion Staute II

1: No abortions shall be permitted after the First trimester of a pregnancy except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest.
2: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall have any existing license from the Mideast Region or a subdivision thereof to practice a medical profession revoked for up to five years.
3: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall be sentenced to up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000. Any person knowingly facilitating the inducement of a prohibited abortion shall be subject to a criminal fine of up to $100,000 and/or six months in prison.
4: The Mideast Abortion Statute is hereby repealed.
I hereby publically protest the passage of the above act and petition for a public referendum to be held on it.
Isn't it more lenient than the previous law?
Perhaps in terms of actual penalties for crimes committed, yes. But the underlying denial of liberty is much harsher.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 17, 2009, 05:25:09 AM
The following shall be added to the Mideast Constitution in Article III Secton 1:
"7. When there is a vacant seat in the Assembly the  Federal Mideast Senator(FMS) is given the power to vote in the Assembly when there is a tie, the FMS is not given the power to vote anyother time when there is a vacant seat. Once the vacant seat is filled by the Governor the power is taken away from the FMS"
The bill stands as above. If submitted by this Assembly, it shall need the ratification of a 2/3ds supermajority of citizens voting in a public referendum.

The vote on the above bill is opened.
I vote Aye
The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it. The Governor is hereby directed to schedule a public referendum on this amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 17, 2009, 05:29:00 AM
Mideast Pornography Statute II
It shall be legal for all persons aged fourteen years or older to possess, view and buy pornography, depicting only persons aged eighteen years or older.
The above bill is now called to the floor for debate. The existing law is in this bill (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Pornography_and_Sex_Crime_Statute)

I herby friendly amend my own bill to:
Mideast Pornography Statute II
All those persons of 14 years of age or older not incarcerated for crimes shall have the right to buy, possess and view pornography depicting only persons of 18 years of age or older.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 17, 2009, 08:04:09 AM
Mideast Pornography Statute II
It shall be legal for all persons aged fourteen years or older to possess, view and buy pornography, depicting only persons aged eighteen years or older.
The above bill is now called to the floor for debate. The existing law is in this bill (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Pornography_and_Sex_Crime_Statute)

I herby friendly amend my own bill to:
Mideast Pornography Statute II
All those persons of 14 years of age or older not incarcerated for crimes shall have the right to buy, possess and view pornography depicting only persons of 18 years of age or older.

After thinking about this more, I support this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 17, 2009, 08:10:22 AM
I do I one question, Mr. Speaker, would it be ok if we added sec 2 of the current bill to this one, but change the ages to 14?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 17, 2009, 09:40:06 AM
Ok, I got a little bit lost in all of this - Mr. Speaker, could you submit to my office any bills which I have yet to sign or veto.

Thank you.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 17, 2009, 11:08:46 AM
I do I one question, Mr. Speaker, would it be ok if we added sec 2 of the current bill to this one, but change the ages to 14?
Some changes along these lines were brought in by the Sex Crime Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Sex_Crime_Statute). I am happy to bring in further Romeo-Juliet provisions, but would prefer not to open up the system to 14 year olds having sex with people of any age.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 17, 2009, 01:39:07 PM
I do I one question, Mr. Speaker, would it be ok if we added sec 2 of the current bill to this one, but change the ages to 14?
Some changes along these lines were brought in by the Sex Crime Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Sex_Crime_Statute). I am happy to bring in further Romeo-Juliet provisions, but would prefer not to open up the system to 14 year olds having sex with people of any age.

Ah, I see. I guess it is good just the way it is now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 18, 2009, 05:53:18 PM
Well, I am opposed to this bill. I think the age should remain at 16, or even move to 18.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 19, 2009, 12:58:29 PM
Mideast Pornography Statute II
All those persons of 14 years of age or older not incarcerated for crimes shall have the right to buy, possess and view pornography depicting only persons of 18 years of age or older.
There having been no substantive debate in 24 hours, the vote is on the bill above.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 19, 2009, 01:27:51 PM
aye on the bill


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 19, 2009, 01:46:52 PM
Aye on the bill


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 19, 2009, 05:19:23 PM
Nay


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 19, 2009, 06:59:02 PM
The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Statute

1. Whereas, the consumption of marijuana is legal, in accordance with FL 6-19, the Marijuana Legalization and Taxation Act.

2. A sales tax of 30% will be collected on any marijuana sale.

3. The Mideast Marijuana Legalization Statute is hereby repealed.

I would like to ask the Speaker if we can have a vote to table this. Currently, the senate is already raising the tax on marijuana, we don't need to.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 19, 2009, 07:15:45 PM
The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Statute

1. Whereas, the consumption of marijuana is legal, in accordance with FL 6-19, the Marijuana Legalization and Taxation Act.

2. A sales tax of 30% will be collected on any marijuana sale.

3. The Mideast Marijuana Legalization Statute is hereby repealed.

I would like to ask the Speaker if we can have a vote to table this. Currently, the senate is already raising the tax on marijuana, we don't need to.

We are allowed to regulate marijuana as we wish under both the current and proposed statutes. I see no reason why we shouldn't set our own tax plan. However, the bill should be amended once the government decides what tax rate is correct for marijuana. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 19, 2009, 09:33:37 PM
The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Statute

1. Whereas, the consumption of marijuana is legal, in accordance with FL 6-19, the Marijuana Legalization and Taxation Act.

2. A sales tax of 30% will be collected on any marijuana sale.

3. The Mideast Marijuana Legalization Statute is hereby repealed.

I would like to ask the Speaker if we can have a vote to table this. Currently, the senate is already raising the tax on marijuana, we don't need to.

We are allowed to regulate marijuana as we wish under both the current and proposed statutes. I see no reason why we shouldn't set our own tax plan. However, the bill should be amended once the government decides what tax rate is correct for marijuana. 

The Federal government is already putting a tax on it, somewhere in the 20%-30% range. I'm sorry, being the economy conservative I am, I will vote against making that tax even higher on something that does no harm to the smoker of the people around them.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 20, 2009, 10:25:47 AM
Mideast Pornography Statute II
All those persons of 14 years of age or older not incarcerated for crimes shall have the right to buy, possess and view pornography depicting only persons of 18 years of age or older.
There having been no substantive debate in 24 hours, the vote is on the bill above.
The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it.
The bill is submitted to the Governor for his signature or veto.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 20, 2009, 10:27:34 AM
The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Statute

1. Whereas, the consumption of marijuana is legal, in accordance with FL 6-19, the Marijuana Legalization and Taxation Act.

2. A sales tax of 30% will be collected on any marijuana sale.

3. The Mideast Marijuana Legalization Statute is hereby repealed.
I would like to ask the Speaker if we can have a vote to table this. Currently, the senate is already raising the tax on marijuana, we don't need to.
There has been a motion to table which I shall deny on the grounds that it will be defeated - Whilst I am undecided on the bill, I would not vote to table and Persepolis has also indicated he would vote against it. Debate on the bill should proceed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 20, 2009, 06:06:23 PM
As the bill stands now, I stand for it completely.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 24, 2009, 01:36:06 PM
Mideast Pornography Statute II
All those persons of 14 years of age or older not incarcerated for crimes shall have the right to buy, possess and view pornography depicting only persons of 18 years of age or older.
There having been no substantive debate in 24 hours, the vote is on the bill above.
The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it.
The bill is submitted to the Governor for his signature or veto.

The bill has been vetoed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 24, 2009, 09:37:17 PM
"Mideast Soldier Memorial Act"

Because the Mideast Assembly gives thanks for all the Soldiers who have fought for our nation the following will be built in their honor:

1: A Memorial shall be built in the Mideast Capital, College Park to honor our Soldiers who lived in the Mideast.
2: The cost of the Memorial shall be paid by the Mideast Government.
3: The building of the Memorial shall start as soon as the Act is passed and signed by the Mideast Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 24, 2009, 09:46:19 PM
Also since this is a new Assembly term we need to go ahead and elected a Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 25, 2009, 01:10:23 AM
Also since this is a new Assembly term we need to go ahead and elected a Speaker.

The new term doesn't start until noon on Friday.  And don't forget to reswear yourselves in.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 25, 2009, 03:23:21 PM
The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Statute

1. Whereas, the consumption of marijuana is legal, in accordance with FL 6-19, the Marijuana Legalization and Taxation Act.

2. A sales tax of 30% will be collected on any marijuana sale.

3. The Mideast Marijuana Legalization Statute is hereby repealed.
Sorry that I have allowed things to slip in the past couple of days.
The vote is on the above bill.

There will be a vote for a new Speaker at the beginning of the new term on Friday. As Dean of this Assembly, I will again assume the Chair for this purpose. My usual status of being a candidate if members wish me to be applies.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 25, 2009, 04:35:24 PM
Nay on bill


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 25, 2009, 04:51:50 PM
Hello! :)
I'm going to try and get active on here. What can I do?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 25, 2009, 04:56:05 PM
Hello! :)
I'm going to try and get active on here. What can I do?

Hello, Bayh

Welcome to the Mideast Assembly Thread. If you have any ideas on a bill that you would like the Assembly to work on with you are debate, just post it. I believe we have one bill in the queue(I think I spelled that right). But we will be glad to work with you on any bill or idea you have.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 25, 2009, 05:02:26 PM
Hello! :)
I'm going to try and get active on here. What can I do?

Hello, Bayh

Welcome to the Mideast Assembly Thread. If you have any ideas on a bill that you would like the Assembly to work on with you are debate, just post it. I believe we have one bill in the queue(I think I spelled that right). But we will be glad to work with you on any bill or idea you have.

Is there a list of bills that are currently in the queue?
And how serious are the bills? Can you introduce major things (such as a ban on abortion), or is it silly things (banning llama's from restraunts).
And can anyone vote, or only, assembleymen?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 25, 2009, 05:12:37 PM
Hello! :)
I'm going to try and get active on here. What can I do?

Hello, Bayh

Welcome to the Mideast Assembly Thread. If you have any ideas on a bill that you would like the Assembly to work on with you are debate, just post it. I believe we have one bill in the queue(I think I spelled that right). But we will be glad to work with you on any bill or idea you have.

Is there a list of bills that are currently in the queue?
And how serious are the bills? Can you introduce major things (such as a ban on abortion), or is it silly things (banning llama's from restraunts).
And can anyone vote, or only, assembleymen?

The Speaker of the House (Peter) is currently keeping a personal list of bill that are in queue, but the only one we have now in queue is this:

"Mideast Soldier Memorial Act"

Because the Mideast Assembly gives thanks for all the Soldiers who have fought for our nation the following will be built in their honor:

1: A Memorial shall be built in the Mideast Capital, College Park to honor our Soldiers who lived in the Mideast.
2: The cost of the Memorial shall be paid by the Mideast Government.
3: The building of the Memorial shall start as soon as the Act is passed and signed by the Mideast Governor.

To your question about what type of bill you can introduce, they can be anything. Most of them are bill dealing with real life things. Like this is one of the bills that just passed the Assembly:

Quote
Mideast Abortion Staute II

1: No abortions shall be permitted after the First trimester of a pregnancy except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest.
2: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall have any existing license from the Mideast Region or a subdivision thereof to practice a medical profession revoked for up to five years.
3: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall be sentenced to up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000. Any person knowingly facilitating the inducement of a prohibited abortion shall be subject to a criminal fine of up to $100,000 and/or six months in prison.
4: The Mideast Abortion Statute is hereby repealed.

You can go here (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Statute) and read all the bill the Mideast has passed.

Currently only Assembly member can vote in the Assembly, but any Mideast citizen(which would be you), can introduce bills and put in there input in on bills.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on May 25, 2009, 05:14:33 PM
Hello! :)
I'm going to try and get active on here. What can I do?

Hello, Bayh

Welcome to the Mideast Assembly Thread. If you have any ideas on a bill that you would like the Assembly to work on with you are debate, just post it. I believe we have one bill in the queue(I think I spelled that right). But we will be glad to work with you on any bill or idea you have.

Is there a list of bills that are currently in the queue?
And how serious are the bills? Can you introduce major things (such as a ban on abortion), or is it silly things (banning llama's from restraunts).
And can anyone vote, or only, assembleymen?

Only assemblymen, obviously.

Anyway, they actually passed an abortion ban recently (which is actually more lenient than I would prefer but still).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 25, 2009, 05:16:16 PM
Sweetness.
How do you run to become an assembleyperson?

I'm liking the "Mideast Soldier Memorial Act". I assume it doesn't have much opposition?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on May 25, 2009, 05:18:46 PM
Hello! :)
I'm going to try and get active on here. What can I do?

Well you could have run for election to this Assembly last week ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 25, 2009, 05:20:36 PM
Hello! :)
I'm going to try and get active on here. What can I do?

Well you could have run for election to this Assembly last week ;)

Umph.
;)
When is the next election for Assembly? And how many assemblypeople are there?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 25, 2009, 05:21:04 PM
The next election for the Assembly is July, but one of the Assembly member will be elected to the senate in June, so if you became active the Governor Inks may pick you to replace that member.

Also, we haven't discuss that bill yet, so I don't know how the other members feel about it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 25, 2009, 05:22:17 PM
The next election for the Assembly is July, but one of the Assembly member will be elected to the senate in June, so if you became active the Governor Inks may pick you to replace that member.

Also, we haven't discuss that bill yet, so I don't know how the other members feel about it.

Why are there so many elections?
And are you allowed to campaign for a position? I mean, I see that people have a HQ, but is that all you can do?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 25, 2009, 05:29:28 PM
The next election for the Assembly is July, but one of the Assembly member will be elected to the senate in June, so if you became active the Governor Inks may pick you to replace that member.

Also, we haven't discuss that bill yet, so I don't know how the other members feel about it.

Why are there so many elections?
And are you allowed to campaign for a position? I mean, I see that people have a HQ, but is that all you can do?

Well currently, we are heading into an election for President/VP and Regional Senate. You are allowed to run for any postion you want. Like you could run for President or Senator or Governor(but they next Mideast Governor's race is in July).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 25, 2009, 05:30:39 PM
The next election for the Assembly is July, but one of the Assembly member will be elected to the senate in June, so if you became active the Governor Inks may pick you to replace that member.

Also, we haven't discuss that bill yet, so I don't know how the other members feel about it.

Why are there so many elections?
And are you allowed to campaign for a position? I mean, I see that people have a HQ, but is that all you can do?

Well currently, we are heading into an election for President/VP and Regional Senate. You are allowed to run for any postion you want. Like you could run for President or Senator or Governor(but they next Mideast Governor's race is in July).

Well, I'm not going to run yet. I don't have enough experience. ;)
Does the RPP have a candidate for each office?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 25, 2009, 05:35:25 PM
The next election for the Assembly is July, but one of the Assembly member will be elected to the senate in June, so if you became active the Governor Inks may pick you to replace that member.

Also, we haven't discuss that bill yet, so I don't know how the other members feel about it.

Why are there so many elections?
And are you allowed to campaign for a position? I mean, I see that people have a HQ, but is that all you can do?

Well currently, we are heading into an election for President/VP and Regional Senate. You are allowed to run for any postion you want. Like you could run for President or Senator or Governor(but they next Mideast Governor's race is in July).

Well, I'm not going to run yet. I don't have enough experience. ;)
Does the RPP have a candidate for each office?

Currently the RPP holds one Assembly Seat and the Governors office. The DA holds one Assembly Seat the the Regional Senate seat. Currently the DA and RPP are running candidates to replace the open Regional Seat.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 25, 2009, 05:37:22 PM
How many assembly seats are there?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 25, 2009, 05:38:48 PM
How many assembly seats are there?

There are three seats, you can read about the Assembly here (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Assembly)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 25, 2009, 05:42:05 PM
How many assembly seats are there?

There are three seats, you can read about the Assembly here (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Assembly)

Sweetness.
I wish I would have gotten involved in this sooner. It seems really fun.
So, someone might have answered this, but do you have to be an assembleyperson to introduce a bill?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 25, 2009, 05:44:32 PM
How many assembly seats are there?

There are three seats, you can read about the Assembly here (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Assembly)

Sweetness.
I wish I would have gotten involved in this sooner. It seems really fun.
So, someone might have answered this, but do you have to be an assembleyperson to introduce a bill?

Legislation shall be considered by the Assembly upon petition of any Assembly member, the Governor, or two Mideast citizens, but if you want to introduce a bill you can post it and I will sponsor it for you.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 25, 2009, 05:45:52 PM
How many assembly seats are there?

There are three seats, you can read about the Assembly here (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Assembly)

Sweetness.
I wish I would have gotten involved in this sooner. It seems really fun.
So, someone might have answered this, but do you have to be an assembleyperson to introduce a bill?

Legislation shall be considered by the Assembly upon petition of any Assembly member, the Governor, or two Mideast citizens, but if you want to introduce a bill you can post it and I will sponsor it for you.
Okay.
I don't have a bill. I was just wondering.
How many bills get passed each week?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 25, 2009, 05:47:13 PM
How many assembly seats are there?

There are three seats, you can read about the Assembly here (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Assembly)

Sweetness.
I wish I would have gotten involved in this sooner. It seems really fun.
So, someone might have answered this, but do you have to be an assembleyperson to introduce a bill?

Legislation shall be considered by the Assembly upon petition of any Assembly member, the Governor, or two Mideast citizens, but if you want to introduce a bill you can post it and I will sponsor it for you.
Okay.
I don't have a bill. I was just wondering.
How many bills get passed each week?

It varys on how active the Assembly members are and if we have any bill to pass.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 25, 2009, 05:51:38 PM
How many assembly seats are there?

There are three seats, you can read about the Assembly here (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Assembly)

Sweetness.
I wish I would have gotten involved in this sooner. It seems really fun.
So, someone might have answered this, but do you have to be an assembleyperson to introduce a bill?

Legislation shall be considered by the Assembly upon petition of any Assembly member, the Governor, or two Mideast citizens, but if you want to introduce a bill you can post it and I will sponsor it for you.
Okay.
I don't have a bill. I was just wondering.
How many bills get passed each week?

It varys on how active the Assembly members are and if we have any bill to pass.
How many would you guess have been passed in May?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 25, 2009, 07:15:48 PM
About 3 or 4 bills were debated and voted on.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 25, 2009, 08:09:23 PM
How many assembly seats are there?

There are three seats, you can read about the Assembly here (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Assembly)

Sweetness.
I wish I would have gotten involved in this sooner. It seems really fun.
So, someone might have answered this, but do you have to be an assembleyperson to introduce a bill?

Legislation shall be considered by the Assembly upon petition of any Assembly member, the Governor, or two Mideast citizens, but if you want to introduce a bill you can post it and I will sponsor it for you.
Okay.
I don't have a bill. I was just wondering.
How many bills get passed each week?

It varys on how active the Assembly members are and if we have any bill to pass.
How many would you guess have been passed in May?

Also, sometimes the Senate will pass a bill that apportions money for the regions to dispense, which will add something for the Assembly to do.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 25, 2009, 11:50:00 PM
Aye on Marijuana Taxation Statute

I'm really sorry for being out for so long. I have been REALLY sick.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 26, 2009, 05:48:17 PM
Aye

The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it. The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his signature or veto.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 26, 2009, 05:49:31 PM
"Mideast Soldier Memorial Act"

Because the Mideast Assembly gives thanks for all the Soldiers who have fought for our nation the following will be built in their honor:

1: A Memorial shall be built in the Mideast Capital, College Park to honor our Soldiers who lived in the Mideast.
2: The cost of the Memorial shall be paid by the Mideast Government.
3: The building of the Memorial shall start as soon as the Act is passed and signed by the Mideast Governor.
Debate is on the above bill. Whilst I by no means disagree with its motives, it is a somewhat sentimental feel-good bill that actually serves no purpose whatsoever. I will abstain.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 26, 2009, 05:57:47 PM
I like feeling good. We should honor those who fought for our country.
Please vote Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 26, 2009, 06:02:39 PM
"Mideast Soldier Memorial Act"

Because the Mideast Assembly gives thanks for all the Soldiers who have fought for our nation the following will be built in their honor:

1: A Memorial shall be built in the Mideast Capital, College Park to honor our Soldiers who lived in the Mideast.
2: The cost of the Memorial shall be paid by the Mideast Government.
3: The building of the Memorial shall start as soon as the Act is passed and signed by the Mideast Governor.
Debate is on the above bill. Whilst I by no means disagree with its motives, it is a somewhat sentimental feel-good bill that actually serves no purpose whatsoever. I will abstain.

I have nothing to add.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 26, 2009, 06:56:28 PM
It's all good and I intend to support it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 26, 2009, 07:01:54 PM
How often would it normally be before there is a vote on it?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 26, 2009, 07:34:02 PM
"Mideast Soldier Memorial Act"

Because the Mideast Assembly gives thanks for all the Soldiers who have fought for our nation the following will be built in their honor:

1: A Memorial shall be built in the Mideast Capital, College Park to honor our Soldiers who lived in the Mideast.
2: The cost of the Memorial shall be paid by the Mideast Government.
3: The building of the Memorial shall start as soon as the Act is passed and signed by the Mideast Governor.
Debate is on the above bill. Whilst I by no means disagree with its motives, it is a somewhat sentimental feel-good bill that actually serves no purpose whatsoever. I will abstain.

I propose the Assembly spend the money on the veterans and military families, rather than simple gestures.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 26, 2009, 08:03:31 PM
How often would it normally be before there is a vote on it?

24 hours, or more if someone is unavailable due to sickness (like me) or otherwise. The Speaker can just say that there has not been debate in the last 24 hours, and call a vote if he so wishes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 26, 2009, 08:09:07 PM
How often would it normally be before there is a vote on it?

24 hours, or more if someone is unavailable due to sickness (like me) or otherwise. The Speaker can just say that there has not been debate in the last 24 hours, and call a vote if he so wishes.

Oh. Thank you :)

Another question. In the thread below, why is there so many votes? I thought only Assemblymen could vote? I thought there were only 3..
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=96250.0


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 26, 2009, 08:14:12 PM
How often would it normally be before there is a vote on it?

24 hours, or more if someone is unavailable due to sickness (like me) or otherwise. The Speaker can just say that there has not been debate in the last 24 hours, and call a vote if he so wishes.

Oh. Thank you :)

Another question. In the thread below, why is there so many votes? I thought only Assemblymen could vote? I thought there were only 3..
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=96250.0

That is a public referendum. Basically, four Mideasterners protested the passing of the Mideast Abortion Statute. Our state constitution states that a public vote will be taken on any statute that four citizens protest against. In this public election, any Mideasterner can vote. Any election in the Voting Booth is open to the general public of that region, or, if no region is specified, then the whole country.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 26, 2009, 08:16:23 PM
How often would it normally be before there is a vote on it?

24 hours, or more if someone is unavailable due to sickness (like me) or otherwise. The Speaker can just say that there has not been debate in the last 24 hours, and call a vote if he so wishes.

Oh. Thank you :)

Another question. In the thread below, why is there so many votes? I thought only Assemblymen could vote? I thought there were only 3..
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=96250.0

That is a public referendum. Basically, four Mideasterners protested the passing of the Mideast Abortion Statute. Our state constitution states that a public vote will be taken on any statute that four citizens protest against. In this public election, any Mideasterner can vote. Any election in the Voting Booth is open to the general public of that region, or, if no region is specified, then the whole country.

Got it ;)
Thank you very much.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 26, 2009, 09:53:08 PM
The Pornography and Marijuana bills have been vetoed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 26, 2009, 09:56:13 PM
I ask that the Assembly attempt a veto override on the marijuana taxation bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 26, 2009, 10:18:30 PM
I ask that the Assembly attempt a veto override on the marijuana taxation bill.

They can attempt it, but Dan voted no the 1st time.

I would have discussed more about the bill before it went to a vote, but I got caught up in other things.

I will sign the bill if the Assembly lowers the tax to 10% and uses that tax to pay for the Mideast Victim Compensation Act and repeals the 1% gun sales tax increase in the MVCA.

Again, my apologies for not working through this before it actually came to a vote.  If you guys find the terms above unreasonable, let me know, and I'd be willing to compromise with you to try to pass this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 26, 2009, 10:32:16 PM
I would like to bring the following before the Assembly:

The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act

1. Whereas, the consumption of marijuana is legal, in accordance with FL 6-19, the Marijuana Legalization and Taxation Act.
2. There shall be a 10% tax increase on all marijuana substances in the Mideast
3. All money collected by this tax shall fund The Mideast Victim Compensation Act (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/A.R._2:_The_Mideast_Victim_Compensation_Act).
4. The 1% sales tax increase on gun purchases set in The Mideast Victim Compensation Act, is hereby repeal.
5. The Mideast Marijuana Legalization Statute is hereby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 26, 2009, 10:42:04 PM
That is acceptable.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 26, 2009, 10:45:09 PM

Yes it is. I can vote for this because I know that the money would go to help someone in need.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 26, 2009, 10:46:55 PM

Yes it is. I can vote for this because I know that the money would go to help someone in need.

You still may want to keep clauses 1 and 3 from the vetoed bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 26, 2009, 11:24:59 PM
Yes, it is acceptable. I will support it, as the money ends up going to something I advocate very strongly. Good idea governor.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 26, 2009, 11:28:05 PM
Yes, it is acceptable. I will support it, as the money ends up going to something I advocate very strongly. Good idea governor.


Yes, we have a very smart Governor. :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 27, 2009, 07:47:10 AM
Yes, it is acceptable. I will support it, as the money ends up going to something I advocate very strongly. Good idea governor.



Ditto


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 27, 2009, 06:50:23 PM
OK, enough sucking up all of you. :D

I request a vote on the Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 27, 2009, 07:10:53 PM
A stickler for protocol I am, I'm afraid. The new bill will come to the floor in due order.

"Mideast Soldier Memorial Act"

Because the Mideast Assembly gives thanks for all the Soldiers who have fought for our nation the following will be built in their honor:

1: A Memorial shall be built in the Mideast Capital, College Park to honor our Soldiers who lived in the Mideast.
2: The cost of the Memorial shall be paid by the Mideast Government.
3: The building of the Memorial shall start as soon as the Act is passed and signed by the Mideast Governor.
The vote is on the above bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 27, 2009, 07:12:33 PM
Aye

on the Mideast Soldier Memorial Act


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 27, 2009, 07:15:47 PM
Aye on the bill


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 27, 2009, 07:21:02 PM
Abstain.

The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it. The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his signature or veto.

The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act

1. Whereas, the consumption of marijuana is legal, in accordance with FL 6-19, the Marijuana Legalization and Taxation Act.
2. There shall be a 10% tax increase on all marijuana substances in the Mideast
3. All money collected by this tax shall fund The Mideast Victim Compensation Act (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/A.R._2:_The_Mideast_Victim_Compensation_Act).
4. The 1% sales tax increase on gun purchases set in The Mideast Victim Compensation Act, is hereby repeal.
5. The Mideast Marijuana Legalization Statute is hereby repealed.
Debate on the above bill is open.

I had meant to raise this in the previous debate but had never got around to it within debate time - why exactly does the Mideast Marijuana Legalization Statute need to be repealed. To my mind repealing it may undo its effect on Regional Law, and thus criminalise marijuana as a matter of Regional Law.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 27, 2009, 07:26:53 PM
Ah, I see what you are saying, I will accept removing number five from the Act as friendly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 27, 2009, 07:41:25 PM
It is accepted as friendly that Clause 5 is struck. Debate may resume. I remind colleagues that 24 hours of no substantive debate will be required before a vote is brought (just before they try to lobby me otherwise!)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 27, 2009, 07:43:06 PM
I understand, we have to stand by the rules.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 29, 2009, 03:41:58 AM
The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act

1. Whereas, the consumption of marijuana is legal, in accordance with FL 6-19, the Marijuana Legalization and Taxation Act.
2. There shall be a 10% tax increase on all marijuana substances in the Mideast
3. All money collected by this tax shall fund The Mideast Victim Compensation Act (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/A.R._2:_The_Mideast_Victim_Compensation_Act).
4. The 1% sales tax increase on gun purchases set in The Mideast Victim Compensation Act, is hereby repeal.
The vote is on the above bill.

This Assembly shall adjourn at Noon Eastern Time today (5pm BST). It shall then be my responsibility to preside over an election of Speaker for the new Assembly as Dean. There have been no nominations made - please submit nominations.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 29, 2009, 06:01:25 AM
On the "The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act", I really like 3 and 4. Not too crazy on number 1, and I would like taxes to be increased even more on all marijuana. Overall, I encourage everyone to vote "Aye".


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 29, 2009, 08:59:08 AM
I vote aye on the bill.

Also, Peter for Speaker, if he wants it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 29, 2009, 12:47:00 PM
The 5th Assembly is hereby adjourned sine die. Its business is dismissed and its members mandates have now expired. The New Assembly is directed to swear-in.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 29, 2009, 12:55:05 PM
As Dean, I assume the Chair to preside over the election of a Speaker. I have been nominated to continue in this role and will accept the nomination. A vote will be held in 24 hours unless Persepolis indicates that we need not waste the time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 29, 2009, 01:54:05 PM
Does that mean I have to reintroduce The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act? Or is the vote for that still going on?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 29, 2009, 05:31:52 PM
Does that mean I have to reintroduce The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act? Or is the vote for that still going on?

It will have to be reintroduced.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 29, 2009, 07:44:11 PM
The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act

1. Whereas, the consumption of marijuana is legal, in accordance with FL 6-19, the Marijuana Legalization and Taxation Act.
2. There shall be a 10% tax increase on all marijuana substances in the Mideast
3. All money collected by this tax shall fund The Mideast Victim Compensation Act (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/A.R._2:_The_Mideast_Victim_Compensation_Act).
4. The 1% sales tax increase on gun purchases set in The Mideast Victim Compensation Act, is hereby repeal.


I reintroduce this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 29, 2009, 07:53:47 PM
The Mideast Soldier Memorial Act has been signed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 29, 2009, 07:56:43 PM
Thank you. That's a great bill.
:D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on May 30, 2009, 11:59:57 PM
I would like to bring the following before the Assembly:

The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act

1. Whereas, the consumption of marijuana is legal, in accordance with FL 6-19, the Marijuana Legalization and Taxation Act.
2. There shall be a 10% tax increase on all marijuana substances in the Mideast
3. All money collected by this tax shall fund The Mideast Victim Compensation Act (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/A.R._2:_The_Mideast_Victim_Compensation_Act).
4. The 1% sales tax increase on gun purchases set in The Mideast Victim Compensation Act, is hereby repeal.


Correct 4 to say repealed instead of repeal, and we have a deal.


I'm thrilled that the Mideast Soldier Memorial Act passed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on May 31, 2009, 05:32:59 AM
As Dean, I assume the Chair to preside over the election of a Speaker. I have been nominated to continue in this role and will accept the nomination. A vote will be held in 24 hours unless Persepolis indicates that we need not waste the time.
The vote for Speaker is opened:
[ ] Peter
[ ] Write-in: ..................................


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 31, 2009, 07:54:36 AM

As Dean, I assume the Chair to preside over the election of a Speaker. I have been nominated to continue in this role and will accept the nomination. A vote will be held in 24 hours unless Persepolis indicates that we need not waste the time.
The vote for Speaker is opened:
[ x] Peter
[ ] Write-in: ..................................


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 31, 2009, 11:01:39 PM
Bump, because Persepolis needs to vote for Speaker so we can move on to passing bills.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on June 01, 2009, 02:30:03 PM
[ x]Peter

With a majority, the vote carries.
The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act

1. Whereas, the consumption of marijuana is legal, in accordance with FL 6-19, the Marijuana Legalization and Taxation Act.
2. There shall be a 10% tax increase on all marijuana substances in the Mideast
3. All money collected by this tax shall fund The Mideast Victim Compensation Act (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/A.R._2:_The_Mideast_Victim_Compensation_Act).
4. The 1% sales tax increase on gun purchases set in The Mideast Victim Compensation Act, is hereby repeal.
The above bill is on the floor - an amendment has been proposed and I would encourage the sponsor to accept as friendly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on June 01, 2009, 02:32:34 PM
I accept the amendment as friendly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on June 01, 2009, 08:07:54 PM
I completely missed this thread when it went to the next page. Too many campaigns. I agree wholeheartedly with the bill on the floor and have no additions/changes to make.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on June 02, 2009, 10:10:28 AM
The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act

1. Whereas, the consumption of marijuana is legal, in accordance with FL 6-19, the Marijuana Legalization and Taxation Act.
2. There shall be a 10% tax increase on all marijuana substances in the Mideast
3. All money collected by this tax shall fund The Mideast Victim Compensation Act (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/A.R._2:_The_Mideast_Victim_Compensation_Act).
4. The 1% sales tax increase on gun purchases set in The Mideast Victim Compensation Act, is hereby repealed.
The above bill is called to a vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 02, 2009, 10:12:49 AM
Due to #3 & 4, I strongly encourage all assemblymen to vote "Aye" on the Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on June 02, 2009, 12:12:14 PM
Aye on the bill


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on June 02, 2009, 05:47:03 PM
Aye

Obviously, this directly funds my pet project, so YAY!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on June 03, 2009, 01:26:38 PM
Abstain.

The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it. The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his signature or veto.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on June 05, 2009, 08:33:10 PM
I would like to bring the following before the Assembly:

Repeal of Mideast Intelligent Design Statute

Init 02 (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Intelligent_Design_Statute) is repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on June 06, 2009, 10:41:44 PM
I would like to bring the following before the Assembly:

Repeal of Mideast Intelligent Design Statute

Init 02 (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Intelligent_Design_Statute) is repealed.

If this passes I will be bringing a referendum on it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on June 07, 2009, 11:37:45 AM
I would like to bring the following before the Assembly:

Repeal of Mideast Intelligent Design Statute

Init 02 (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Intelligent_Design_Statute) is repealed.
The bill is brought to the floor.

I would like to ask the author what parts of Intelligent Design constitute "Scientific Theory"? It is perfectly legitimate under the act as amended for ID to be discussed in a philosophical context.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 07, 2009, 11:51:12 AM
So, would repealing "Mideast Intelligent Design Statue" allow schools to teach evolution?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on June 07, 2009, 12:05:50 PM
So, would repealing "Mideast Intelligent Design Statue" allow schools to teach evolution?

No. It would allow schools to teach intelligent design. Deceptively named laws and repeals make this sort of things issues, but this bill on the floor would allow schools to teach intelligent design.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 07, 2009, 12:14:46 PM
So, would repealing "Mideast Intelligent Design Statue" allow schools to teach evolution?

No. It would allow schools to teach intelligent design. Deceptively named laws and repeals make this sort of things issues, but this bill on the floor would allow schools to teach intelligent design.
Hmmm...Okay, thank you ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on June 07, 2009, 12:37:37 PM
In Edwards v. Aguillard,  The Supreme Court said that teaching a variety of scientific theories about the origins of humankind to school children might be validly done with the clear secular intent of enhancing the effectiveness of science instruction. ID, is one of those variety of scientific theories, so therefore should teachers be able to teach it if the want to, or at least talk about it in science classes, so students can be see all sides of science.

In order for our students in the Mideast get the best education they can have, they need to learn about all sides of things,not just one. So when they get out into the real world they well be able to know what is out their and be able to debate all sides of things, in this case science.

That is why I want this overturn, I'm not trying to push God into school, because I believe that is wrong, but I do believe that our Mideast students should be able to learn about all sides of science, so they are able to debate on which one is the best for them.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on June 07, 2009, 01:35:57 PM
In Edwards v. Aguillard,  The Supreme Court said that teaching a variety of scientific theories about the origins of humankind to school children might be validly done with the clear secular intent of enhancing the effectiveness of science instruction.
Agreed
Quote
ID, is one of those variety of scientific theories, so therefore should teachers be able to teach it if the want to, or at least talk about it in science classes, so students can be see all sides of science.
Here's where I depart from you. There is a consensus amongst the scientific community (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientific_societies_rejecting_intelligent_design) that ID is not a scientific theory.

Quote
In order for our students in the Mideast get the best education they can have, they need to learn about all sides of things,not just one. So when they get out into the real world they well be able to know what is out their and be able to debate all sides of things, in this case science.

That why I want this overturn, I'm not trying to push God into school, because I believe that is wrong, but I dois  believe that our Mideast students should be able to learn about all sides of science, so they are able to debate on which one is the best for them.
Agreed, but ID isn't science. See above.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MaxQue on June 07, 2009, 02:16:52 PM
As a science student, I'm shocked than Dan said than ID is a scientific theory. ID is definitely not a scientific theory. A religious or philosophical one, yes, but not a scientific one.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on June 07, 2009, 08:00:25 PM
I guess I withdraw this. I'm sorry I brought this up, with my lack of knowledge on this subject. (I feel stupid now)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on June 07, 2009, 08:05:33 PM
I guess I withdraw this. I'm sorry I brought this up, with my lack of knowledge on this subject. (I feel stupid now)

To learn more about ID and its total lack of scientific basis, check out Pastafarianism (http://www.venganza.org/).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 07, 2009, 08:07:56 PM
I guess I withdraw this. I'm sorry I brought this up, with my lack of knowledge on this subject. (I feel stupid now)
Oh Dan, don't feel stupid. You learned something new today. That doesn't make you stupid.
:)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on June 08, 2009, 11:38:34 AM
I guess I withdraw this. I'm sorry I brought this up, with my lack of knowledge on this subject. (I feel stupid now)
Oh Dan, don't feel stupid. You learned something new today. That doesn't make you stupid.
:)

Ditto


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on June 10, 2009, 02:24:50 PM
I move for a Recall on Persepolis.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on June 11, 2009, 12:52:33 PM
Whilst a recall may well be in order, this Assembly has no power to expel its members, only the People may recall him.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on June 11, 2009, 01:18:48 PM
Whilst a recall may well be in order, this Assembly has no power to expel its members, only the People may recall him.

I saw that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on June 11, 2009, 06:19:41 PM
I hereby resign from my position as Mideast Assemblymember. I bid you adeiu.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on June 11, 2009, 06:22:46 PM
I hereby resign from my position as Mideast Assemblymember. I bid you adeiu.

I think you have to do it in this thread : https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=36934.0 (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=36934.0)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: JerryBrown2010 on June 11, 2009, 07:04:09 PM
Who will be replacing him, or will the next election decide that?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Fine...I Made This More Civil on June 11, 2009, 07:05:08 PM
Who will be replacing him, or will the next election decide that?

The governor will appoint a replacement. You should probably contact Inks.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on June 12, 2009, 11:50:17 AM
I hereby resign from my position as Mideast Assemblymember. I bid you adeiu.
Regardless of any technical formality, as Speaker, I accept your resignation and direct the Governor to fill the vacancy.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on June 12, 2009, 02:37:51 PM
tmthforu94 has been appointed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 12, 2009, 05:58:13 PM
I would like to present the following bill to the Assembly:

The Animal Protection Act
1. The Mideast recognizes animal torture as knowingly torturing, tormenting, needlessly mutilating or maiming, cruelly beating, poisoning, needlessly killing, or committing an act of cruelty against a companion animal.
2. To require a child under the age of 18 to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling.
3. To require the parent, guardian, or other person taking care of the child to pay the costs of the evaluation, counseling, or both.
4. If a person over the age of 18 commits animal cruelty more than twice, that person would be required to spend a minimum of 30 days in prison and a maximum of 5 years.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 12, 2009, 10:58:53 PM
I would like to present the following bill to the Assembly:

The Animal Protection Act
1. The Mideast recognizes animal torture as knowingly torturing, tormenting, needlessly mutilating or maiming, cruelly beating, poisoning, needlessly killing, or committing an act of cruelty against a companion animal.
2. To require a child under the age of 18 to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling.
3. To require the parent, guardian, or other person taking care of the child to pay the costs of the evaluation, counseling, or both.
4. If a person over the age of 18 commits animal cruelty more than twice, that person would be required to spend a minimum of 30 days in prison and a maximum of 5 years.

I love you....not in a gay way of course :-D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on June 13, 2009, 06:01:55 AM
I would like to present the following bill to the Assembly:

The Animal Protection Act
1. The Mideast recognizes animal torture as knowingly torturing, tormenting, needlessly mutilating or maiming, cruelly beating, poisoning, needlessly killing, or committing an act of cruelty against a companion animal.
2. To require a child under the age of 18 to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling.
3. To require the parent, guardian, or other person taking care of the child to pay the costs of the evaluation, counseling, or both.
4. If a person over the age of 18 commits animal cruelty more than twice, that person would be required to spend a minimum of 30 days in prison and a maximum of 5 years.
The bill is brought to the floor. My first reading of the bill would seem to mean that clause 2 requires that all children under the age of 18 (surely a tautology?) undergo a psych evaluation. I ='d like some clarification of who exactly is meant to be affected by this bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 13, 2009, 08:36:59 AM
I would like to present the following bill to the Assembly:

The Animal Protection Act
1. The Mideast recognizes animal torture as knowingly torturing, tormenting, needlessly mutilating or maiming, cruelly beating, poisoning, needlessly killing, or committing an act of cruelty against a companion animal.
2. To require a child under the age of 18 to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling.
3. To require the parent, guardian, or other person taking care of the child to pay the costs of the evaluation, counseling, or both.
4. If a person over the age of 18 commits animal cruelty more than twice, that person would be required to spend a minimum of 30 days in prison and a maximum of 5 years.
The bill is brought to the floor. My first reading of the bill would seem to mean that clause 2 requires that all children under the age of 18 (surely a tautology?) undergo a psych evaluation. I ='d like some clarification of who exactly is meant to be affected by this bill.
I'm sorry. Anyone under the age of 18 must undergo a psychological evaluation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 13, 2009, 08:44:19 AM
I would like to present the following bill to the Assembly:

The Animal Protection Act
1. The Mideast recognizes animal torture as knowingly torturing, tormenting, needlessly mutilating or maiming, cruelly beating, poisoning, needlessly killing, or committing an act of cruelty against a companion animal.
2. To require a child under the age of 18 to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling.
3. To require the parent, guardian, or other person taking care of the child to pay the costs of the evaluation, counseling, or both.
4. If a person over the age of 18 commits animal cruelty more than twice, that person would be required to spend a minimum of 30 days in prison and a maximum of 5 years.
The bill is brought to the floor. My first reading of the bill would seem to mean that clause 2 requires that all children under the age of 18 (surely a tautology?) undergo a psych evaluation. I ='d like some clarification of who exactly is meant to be affected by this bill.
I'm sorry. Anyone under the age of 18 must undergo a psychological evaluation.

I think he means what does that have to do with the protection of animals?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 13, 2009, 08:46:43 AM
I would like to present the following bill to the Assembly:

The Animal Protection Act
1. The Mideast recognizes animal torture as knowingly torturing, tormenting, needlessly mutilating or maiming, cruelly beating, poisoning, needlessly killing, or committing an act of cruelty against a companion animal.
2. To require a child under the age of 18 to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling.
3. To require the parent, guardian, or other person taking care of the child to pay the costs of the evaluation, counseling, or both.
4. If a person over the age of 18 commits animal cruelty more than twice, that person would be required to spend a minimum of 30 days in prison and a maximum of 5 years.
The bill is brought to the floor. My first reading of the bill would seem to mean that clause 2 requires that all children under the age of 18 (surely a tautology?) undergo a psych evaluation. I ='d like some clarification of who exactly is meant to be affected by this bill.
I'm sorry. Anyone under the age of 18 must undergo a psychological evaluation.

I think he means what does that have to do with the protection of animals?
Ahh...
The main purpose of this bill is to protect animals by creating punishments if you abuse animals. Minors who are beating animals obviously have anger problems, and need professional help. Hopefully, prison time would also keep adults from being cruel to animals.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on June 13, 2009, 11:26:08 AM
As far as I can tell, you are actually proposing that every single person under 18 undergo a psych evaluation at some point. The Mideast probably has somewhere on the order of 10 million children within its boundaries. You seem content to delegate the cost of this on to hard working families by requiring that all families pay for the evaluation of their children. Sorry, but thats unacceptable to me, especially as we will find that the vast majority of children are not animal torturers.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 13, 2009, 11:28:43 AM
As far as I can tell, you are actually proposing that every single person under 18 undergo a psych evaluation at some point. The Mideast probably has somewhere on the order of 10 million children within its boundaries. You seem content to delegate the cost of this on to hard working families by requiring that all families pay for the evaluation of their children. Sorry, but thats unacceptable to me, especially as we will find that the vast majority of children are not animal torturers.

Oh
I'm sorry, I made a mistake on the bill. :/
That was meant to say...
2. To require a child under the age of 18 who has committed animal cruelty to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on June 13, 2009, 11:35:57 AM
I'm going to work on this tonight or tomorrow, I want to reword some things so don't call for a vote until I am able to do so.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on June 13, 2009, 05:54:20 PM
There needs to be something that makes it clear that hunting is excluded from this.  Hunting for sport could be considered "needlessly killing," since most people don't HAVE to hunt for food.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on June 13, 2009, 11:53:05 PM
There needs to be something that makes it clear that hunting is excluded from this.  Hunting for sport could be considered "needlessly killing," since most people don't HAVE to hunt for food.

So could eating animals. And are certain mass animal slaughter farms abusive? This could potentially harm a lot of Mideast business as well without clarification.

As far as I can tell, you are actually proposing that every single person under 18 undergo a psych evaluation at some point. The Mideast probably has somewhere on the order of 10 million children within its boundaries. You seem content to delegate the cost of this on to hard working families by requiring that all families pay for the evaluation of their children. Sorry, but thats unacceptable to me, especially as we will find that the vast majority of children are not animal torturers.

Oh
I'm sorry, I made a mistake on the bill. :/
That was meant to say...
2. To require a child under the age of 18 who has committed animal cruelty to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling.


The problem is you didn't clarify in the bill that those things are punishments for animal abuse.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on June 14, 2009, 01:34:38 PM
I would like to bring this up as an Amendment to the current bill on the table.

The Animal Protection Act
The Mideast Region recognizes that it is our duty to protect Animals. Thefore the following shall be enforced:

1. The Mideast recognizes animal cruelty as the following:
a. Neglect
b. Malicious killing
c. Beatings
d. Animal Fighting ie Dog fight, cock fight.

2. The Mideast doesn't recognizes the following as animal cruelty:
a. Hunting for food or sport
b. Killing Animals for food.

3. Any person under the age of 18, who is found guilty of animal abuse is require to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling. If found sane said person shall serve at least 6 months in juvenile jail and/or 2,500 dollars fine.
a. Parents/Guardians of said person under 18, is liable for all cost for the evaluation/counseling/fine.

4. If a person over the age of 18 commits animal abuse, said person shall serve at least 6 months in jail and/or 5,000 dollars fine.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on June 14, 2009, 11:29:33 PM
Grammar needs fixing up.

And you can't have a law where the punishment is "at least __________" - you need a maximum, not a minimum.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on June 14, 2009, 11:33:32 PM
Does this mean I can't kill ants for fun anymore? And is the sentence per ant I kill or do I get 6 months no matter how many of the little buggers I squish?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on June 14, 2009, 11:44:39 PM
Does this mean I can't kill ants for fun anymore? And is the sentence per ant I kill or do I get 6 months no matter how many of the little buggers I squish?

Perhaps a definition of the word "animal" is in order.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on June 15, 2009, 07:38:16 AM
Does this mean I can't kill ants for fun anymore? And is the sentence per ant I kill or do I get 6 months no matter how many of the little buggers I squish?

Perhaps a definition of the word "animal" is in order.

Indeed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 15, 2009, 11:31:46 AM
I would like to bring this up as an Amendment to the current bill on the table.

The Animal Protection Act
The Mideast Region recognizes that it is our duty to protect Animals. Therefore, the following shall be enforced:

1. The Mideast recognizes animal cruelty as the following:
a. Neglect
b. Malicious killing
c. Beatings
d. Animal Fighting ie Dog fight, cock fight.

2. The Mideast doesn't recognizes the following as animal cruelty:
a. Hunting for food or sport
b. Killing Animals for food.
c. Killing any rodents or insects.

3. Any person under the age of 18, who is found guilty of animal abuse is required to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling. If found sane said person shall serve a maximum of 2 years in juvenile jail and/or 2,500 dollars fine.
a. Parents or Guardians of said person under 18, are liable for all cost for the evaluation/counseling/fine.

4. If a person over the age of 18 commits animal abuse, said person shall serve a minimum of 30 days in jail and a maximum of 5 years in jail and/or 5,000 dollars fine.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on June 15, 2009, 06:13:04 PM
Wait a minute - rodents includes hamsters and stuff like that.  So if somebody kills somebody's pet hamster, they'd be exempt.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on June 15, 2009, 11:14:14 PM
In addition, putting pets down during old age would be criminalized, while abandonment is not, so we would see a lot of sick dogs wandering the streets it seems.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on June 16, 2009, 06:21:01 AM
Quote
b. Killing Animals for food.

So I can still kill my cats and dogs, just as long as I eat them afterwords?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on June 16, 2009, 06:27:45 AM
In addition, putting pets down during old age would be criminalized, while abandonment is not, so we would see a lot of sick dogs wandering the streets it seems.
I disagree - that doesn't fit the definition of animal cruelty here as it is not a "malicious killing".

Parliamentary Procedure requires that I first call a vote on Dan's amendment then Bayh '10s amendment, but I think it best if Bayh submits his amendment as friendly and Dan withdraws his amendment. Please do this soon because otherwise pointless votes will be required.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on June 16, 2009, 06:57:21 AM
I withdraw my amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 16, 2009, 10:44:20 AM
I would like to bring this up as an Amendment to the current bill on the table.

The Animal Protection Act
The Mideast Region recognizes that it is our duty to protect Animals. Therefore, the following shall be enforced:

1. The Mideast recognizes animal cruelty as the following:
a. Neglect
b. Malicious killing
c. Beatings
d. Animal Fighting ie Dog fight, cock fight.

2. The Mideast doesn't recognizes the following as animal cruelty:
a. Hunting for food or sport
b. Killing Animals for food.
c. Killing any rodents or insects.

3. Any person under the age of 18, who is found guilty of animal abuse is required to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling. If found sane said person shall serve a maximum of 2 years in juvenile jail and/or 2,500 dollars fine.
a. Parents or Guardians of said person under 18, are liable for all cost for the evaluation/counseling/fine.

4. If a person over the age of 18 commits animal abuse, said person shall serve a minimum of 30 days in jail and a maximum of 5 years in jail and/or 5,000 dollars fine.

I accept this amendment as friendly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on June 17, 2009, 01:58:10 PM
The Animal Protection Act
The Mideast Region recognizes that it is our duty to protect Animals. Therefore, the following shall be enforced:

1. The Mideast recognizes animal cruelty as the following:
a. Neglect
b. Malicious killing
c. Beatings
d. Animal Fighting ie Dog fight, cock fight.

2. The Mideast doesn't recognizes the following as animal cruelty:
a. Hunting for food or sport
b. Killing Animals for food.
c. Killing any rodents or insects.

3. Any person under the age of 18, who is found guilty of animal abuse is required to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling. If found sane said person shall serve a maximum of 2 years in juvenile jail and/or 2,500 dollars fine.
a. Parents or Guardians of said person under 18, are liable for all cost for the evaluation/counseling/fine.

4. If a person over the age of 18 commits animal abuse, said person shall serve a minimum of 30 days in jail and a maximum of 5 years in jail and/or 5,000 dollars fine.
The above amendment was accepted as friendly and without objection is now the substance of the bill.

There have been 24 hours without debate, and so this bill is called to a vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 17, 2009, 02:13:07 PM
Aye on "The Animal Protection Act".


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on June 17, 2009, 02:21:42 PM

Aye on the bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on June 17, 2009, 03:44:21 PM
Aye.

The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it.
The bill is submitted to the Governor for his signature or veto.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on June 18, 2009, 09:10:05 PM
Aye.

The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it.
The bill is submitted to the Governor for his signature or veto.

The legislation has been signed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on June 28, 2009, 07:25:40 AM
C'mon, new members, get your act together! Get some legislation on the floor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 28, 2009, 11:21:51 AM
C'mon, new members, get your act together! Get some legislation on the floor.
I spent another 30 minutes this morning brainstorming. I have a few ideas, but I'm not sure which one to go with.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Vepres on June 28, 2009, 09:48:55 PM
C'mon, new members, get your act together! Get some legislation on the floor.
I spent another 30 minutes this morning brainstorming. I have a few ideas, but I'm not sure which one to go with.

Just propose one and see where it goes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on July 01, 2009, 11:08:06 AM
The Public Smoking Act
1. It shall be illegal for any citizen of the Mideast to smoke in a public area.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, that person shall face a fine up to five thousand dollars.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 01, 2009, 03:30:23 PM
I interpret this (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=98292.0) as Dan's resignation from the Assembly. The Governor is directed to fill the vacancy.

I am in favour of the new bill and will bring it to the floor once we have a 3rd member.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on July 01, 2009, 03:33:29 PM
I interpret this (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=98292.0) as Dan's resignation from the Assembly. The Governor is directed to fill the vacancy.

I am in favour of the new bill and will bring it to the floor once we have a 3rd member.
He probably meant for that, but he didn't specifically say. And, wouldn't have have to go this (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=36934.315) to resign, which he didn't do?
I'll ask him. Hopefully this will be resolved quickly. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on July 01, 2009, 03:42:39 PM
The Public Smoking Act
1. It shall be illegal for any citizen of the Mideast to smoke in a public area.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, that person shall face a fine up to five thousand dollars.

5000$ does sound very harsh. The maximum fine should probably be much lower, otherwise it's a great law.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on July 01, 2009, 03:56:09 PM
The Public Smoking Act
1. It shall be illegal for any citizen of the Mideast to smoke in a public area.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, that person shall face a fine up to five thousand dollars.

5000$ does sound very harsh. The maximum fine should probably be much lower, otherwise it's a great law.
That's the maximum. It doesn't necessarily mean anyone who is guilty will pay $5,000.00. If someone had done it several times before, then the judge would have the option of going up to five thousand, which would be very severe, and likely put a stop to it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on July 01, 2009, 05:40:17 PM
Quote
That's the maximum. It doesn't necessarily mean anyone who is guilty will pay $5,000.00. If someone had done it several times before, then the judge would have the option of going up to five thousand, which would be very severe, and likely put a stop to it.

Well that's true, people with $5000 fines are not likely to afford any my cigaretts. :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on July 02, 2009, 11:09:26 AM
As all Mideast citizens are not automatically members of the Assembly (apparently unlike other regions, but OK), I am writing this letter to my representatives regarding the proposed anti-public smoking bill.

I'm a lifelong nonsmoker who is painfully aware of both the health and nuisance effects of secondhand smoke. I've rarely been prouder of my parents when, after smoking a couple packs a week since their late teens, they together successfully gave up smoking cold turkey and have been clean for about 20 years. I have enjoyed the effect of public anti-smoking laws in cities I've visited. I believe the complained loss of business by some bar and restaurant owners is overstated and offset by nonsmoking patrons being more willing to patronize such establishments. In my own experience there is at least one bar/restaurant in Columbus I used to avoid despite the decent food and beer because the place was in a perpetual fog cloud of tobacco smoke. Since Columbus passed it's anti-public smoking ordinance, however, the place is actually enjoyable to go to and I spend money there I never would have otherwise (and it never appears any less crowded than before the smoking ban).

I believe an anti-public smoking ban would be a great thing for Mideastern citizens and communities. That said, I absolutely oppose this proposed bill and urge it's defeat.

The issue is simple: For even a strong anti-smoking advocate such as myself, and many others like me, a maximum $5000 fine is VASTLY excessive. Do not assume that "judicial discretion" will ensure that such penalties will only be imposed on the worst repeat offenders. It is a truism that if a law permits a maximum penalty, some judges will impose it regularly regardless of circumstances. Even a fine of $3000 or $2000 for someone with a 2 or three prior convictions is patently excessive. For comparison's sake, the proposed maximum fine is almost twice the maximum Ohio permits for a 3rd DUI conviction in 6 years!

Simply put, relying on 'judicial discretion' to avoid unjust imposition of a poorly crafted law is a fool's errand. I would respectfully recommend amending the bill to allow a maximum fine of at most a tenth that proposed ($500--still rather steep, but acceptable and allowing for serious deterrent to repeat offenders). If there is need to ensure the bill has 'teeth' perhaps a minimum mandatory fine of $100 should also be mandated, as this would also avoid some judges who place their own personal distaste for the law over the will of the legislature from habitually imposing nominal penalties (e.g. $1 fine) or even no fine at all.

Another thought just hit me: With such a high maximum potential fine of $5000, the right to a jury trial would probably attach, even without a potential jail sentence. Instead of resolving such cases with a relatively quick and simple bench trial (i.e. trial to a judge or magistrate), the additional clogging of judicial dockets with much longer jury trials is in no one's best interest.

With such reasonable amendments, I would wholeheartedly support such anti-public smoking legislation.

Thank you all for your consideration and anticipated support.

Signed on behalf of many Mideastern nonsmokers,
A Voter


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on July 02, 2009, 11:50:04 AM
Thank you, voter. I greatly appreciate your concern on this bill, and I'm glad you spoke up. :)
The reason I put such a maximum fine is in special circumstances. For example, if someone continued to broke the law and smoked in public, the option of fining up to five thousand dollars would be optional. I don't support a fine of five thousand dollars every time. That's just so the judge will have a high ceiling, for special circumstances.

However, I do appreciate your concern, and I think it's important that we give as much power to the people as we can. Other people have also spoken that the maximum is harsh. Therefore, I will make a compromise, and will amend my own bill.

The Public Smoking Act
1. It shall be illegal for any citizen of the Mideast to smoke in a public area.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, that person shall face a fine up to two thousand dollars.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on July 02, 2009, 01:39:43 PM
Why not something equivalent to a traffic ticket? $2,000 for smoking indoors? I would think speeding far above the speed limit would be a harsher penalty.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on July 03, 2009, 07:28:13 PM
Why not something equivalent to a traffic ticket? $2,000 for smoking indoors? I would think speeding far above the speed limit would be a harsher penalty.

I concur. At the risk of sounding inflexible I suggested $500 as a round number which absolutely at the highest end of remotely reasonable. And even that's pushing the envelope.

Using Ohio as a comparison, $2000 is still more than the maximum fine permitted for a 2nd DUI in 6 years. It's also close to the maximum permitted ($2500) for many felony offenses including:

Domestic Violence with a prior DV conviction

Possession of Cocaine or Heroin(!)

Assault on a Police Officer (not mere resisting arrest; actually slugging a cop).

Again, LOVE the idea, but the fine proposed here, even as modified, is just plain extreme.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on July 03, 2009, 11:00:01 PM
I don't support any such ban.  I think people should have the right to decide if they want to smoke.  It's up to the restaurants or other establishments to make their own decisions otherwise.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 05, 2009, 12:16:29 AM
I don't support any such ban.  I think people should have the right to decide if they want to smoke.  It's up to the restaurants or other establishments to make their own decisions otherwise.

What are we defining as public place?  Restaurants? city sidewalks? anywhere outside of your own home?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on July 05, 2009, 01:37:13 AM
I don't support any such ban.  I think people should have the right to decide if they want to smoke.  It's up to the restaurants or other establishments to make their own decisions otherwise.

I also agree with this. I was just focusing on the fine before, but why the hell are we banning smoking?

*Hat Tip: Brandon stuck us in the national spotlight, check it out!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 07, 2009, 06:06:16 AM
There are now 2 vacancies in the Mideast Assembly.

I urge the Governor to fill these vacancies. I would simply state that I can pass bills, have them vetoed, and then override vetoes on my own at the moment


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on July 07, 2009, 11:18:13 AM
There are now 2 vacancies in the Mideast Assembly.

I urge the Governor to fill these vacancies. I would simply state that I can pass bills, have them vetoed, and then override vetoes on my own at the moment

We have no definition of requirements of quorum for the Assembly? That should change.

Bear in mind we can always call a referendum on things you pass. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 08, 2009, 01:05:31 AM
There are now 2 vacancies in the Mideast Assembly.

I urge the Governor to fill these vacancies. I would simply state that I can pass bills, have them vetoed, and then override vetoes on my own at the moment

I know - I'm working on that now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on July 08, 2009, 05:33:08 PM
There are now 2 vacancies in the Mideast Assembly.

I urge the Governor to fill these vacancies. I would simply state that I can pass bills, have them vetoed, and then override vetoes on my own at the moment

I know - I'm working on that now.

We just like torturing you Inks. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 10, 2009, 04:56:50 PM
I introduce some amendments to the smoking bill.

The Public Smoking Act
1. It shall be illegal for any citizen of the Mideast to smoke in a public area.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, then that person shall be fined no less than a hundred dollars and no more than five hundred dollars.
3. Smoking in private areas shall not be affected by the passage of this Act.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on July 10, 2009, 05:31:07 PM
I introduce some amendments to the smoking bill.

The Public Smoking Act
1. It shall be illegal for any citizen of the Mideast to smoke in a public area.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, then that person shall be fined no less than a hundred dollars and no more than five hundred dollars.
3. Smoking in private areas shall not be affected by the passage of this Act.

I still don't like the bill. Could you add the follow?

4. $50 million dollars shall be apportioned for the construction and designation of "smoker-friendly" zones which shall be made suitable for people to smoke in free of charge.

Also, an amendment to clause 2, adding the following sentence: "All proceeds from said fines shall contribute to the construction and designation of "smoker-friendly" zones throughout the region, as outlined in Clause 4."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on July 10, 2009, 05:51:13 PM
I fully support the Bill with PS's additions.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on July 10, 2009, 06:25:04 PM
I don't support any such ban.  I think people should have the right to decide if they want to smoke.  It's up to the restaurants or other establishments to make their own decisions otherwise.

What are we defining as public place?  Restaurants? city sidewalks? anywhere outside of your own home?

Areas with a roof, not owned by private persons or privately owned but open to public regarding civil security and protection laws.
(in France, we've got a law that define ERP, "établissements recevant du public", which firemen and state civil servants have to check in order to see if they can stay open to public, with enough emergency way-outs, etc.)

A good idea, but, of course, not any dollar for facilities to smokers: they can smoke in "open" areas, that's all. If they want specific structures, they ahev to pay for them.
If I want to eat chocolate in public places, I don't demand that public money funds a free chocolate-delivery.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on July 10, 2009, 06:27:29 PM
I don't support any such ban.  I think people should have the right to decide if they want to smoke.  It's up to the restaurants or other establishments to make their own decisions otherwise.

What are we defining as public place?  Restaurants? city sidewalks? anywhere outside of your own home?

Areas with a roof, not owned by private persons or privately owned but open to public regarding civil security and protection laws.
(in France, we've got a law that define ERP, "établissements recevant du public", which firemen and state civil servants have to check in order to see if they can stay open to public, with enough emergency way-outs, etc.)

A good idea, but, of course, not any dollar for facilities to smokers: they can smoke in "open" areas, that's all. If they want specific structures, they ahev to pay for them.
If I want to eat chocolate in public places, I don't demand that public money funds a free chocolate-delivery.

The point is that you're allowed to eat chocolate in public. Why should they have to pay for structures in which to smoke when you took away their places?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on July 10, 2009, 06:29:35 PM
I don't support any such ban.  I think people should have the right to decide if they want to smoke.  It's up to the restaurants or other establishments to make their own decisions otherwise.

What are we defining as public place?  Restaurants? city sidewalks? anywhere outside of your own home?

Areas with a roof, not owned by private persons or privately owned but open to public regarding civil security and protection laws.
(in France, we've got a law that define ERP, "établissements recevant du public", which firemen and state civil servants have to check in order to see if they can stay open to public, with enough emergency way-outs, etc.)

A good idea, but, of course, not any dollar for facilities to smokers: they can smoke in "open" areas, that's all. If they want specific structures, they ahev to pay for them.
If I want to eat chocolate in public places, I don't demand that public money funds a free chocolate-delivery.

The point is that you're allowed to eat chocolate in public. Why should they have to pay for structures in which to smoke when you took away their places?
I meant "if I want to eat chocolate in OPEN public places". Without a roof.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on July 10, 2009, 06:34:46 PM
Ah, because I believe the bill includes smoking in open public spaces like parks, roads, etc. Not just closed public spaces.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on July 10, 2009, 06:36:18 PM
A definition of what a public place refers to here in the bill would probably be in order.

I don't think anyone wants to stop smokers from smoking outside, but rather in resturants, hair salons, busses and similar.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 11, 2009, 04:27:20 AM
Just to let you all know.  Swedish cheese has been appointed - make sure to swear yourself in.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 11, 2009, 08:16:54 AM
This Assembly is now properly constituted and gavelled to order.

I request that members submit business for our consideration.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on July 11, 2009, 08:25:02 AM
I'd like to propose the following change to the bill.

The Public Smoking Act
1. It shall be illegal for any citizen of the Mideast to smoke inside buildings and establishments open to the public, such as restaurants, bars, public transporting, cinemas, and libraries.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, then that person shall be fined no less than a hundred dollars and no more than five hundred dollars.
3. Smoking in private areas shall not be affected by the passage of this Act.

Does that clearify it?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 11, 2009, 08:37:17 AM
There is no bill on the floor of this Assembly.

(For those not adept with Parliamentary Procedure, because tmthforu94 left the Assembly, his bill died. You are of course welcome to introduce exactly the same bill with whatever amendments you like already made.)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on July 11, 2009, 08:41:34 AM
There is no bill on the floor of this Assembly.

(For those not adept with Parliamentary Procedure, because tmthforu94 left the Assembly, his bill died. You are of course welcome to introduce exactly the same bill with whatever amendments you like already made.)

Oh I see :)

I'd like to introduce the following bill to the Assembly:

1. It shall be illegal for any citizen of the Mideast to smoke inside buildings and establishments open to the public, such as restaurants, bars, public transporting, cinemas, and libraries.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, then that person shall be fined no less than a hundred dollars and no more than five hundred dollars.
3. Smoking in private areas shall not be affected by the passage of this Act.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on July 11, 2009, 09:39:09 PM
That seems far better than the previously introduced versions. It is a fire hazard after all.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 12, 2009, 12:04:41 AM
There is no bill on the floor of this Assembly.

(For those not adept with Parliamentary Procedure, because tmthforu94 left the Assembly, his bill died. You are of course welcome to introduce exactly the same bill with whatever amendments you like already made.)

Oh I see :)

I'd like to introduce the following bill to the Assembly:

1. It shall be illegal for any citizen of the Mideast to smoke inside buildings and establishments open to the public, such as restaurants, bars, public transporting, cinemas, and libraries.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, then that person shall be fined no less than a hundred dollars and no more than five hundred dollars.
3. Smoking in private areas shall not be affected by the passage of this Act.

First, a couple of things:

1. I have a problem with clause 1.  The wording makes it illegal for a Mideasterner to smoke in a public place, so technically, if I were to smoke in California, I could be prosecuted back home under this law.  Furthermore, somebody from the Pacific could smoke here in the Mideast.
2. What are we defining as "private areas"?  Are restaurants and businesses public or private?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 12, 2009, 06:32:57 AM
The following bill is placed in the queue.

Xth Constitutional Amendment

Article IV (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Third_Constitution#Article_IV_-_Election_Regulations), Section 1, Clause 7 is amended to read:

In order to be a candidate on the ballot, a candidate must declare their candidacy at least two days before the election.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on July 12, 2009, 07:31:56 AM
Quote
I have a problem with clause 1.  The wording makes it illegal for a Mideasterner to smoke in a public place, so technically, if I were to smoke in California, I could be prosecuted back home under this law.  Furthermore, somebody from the Pacific could smoke here in the Mideast.

You're right it does. *faceplam* I'll change it.

Quote
What are we defining as "private areas"?  Are restaurants and businesses public or private?

A resturant is open to the public as anyone can walk in to a resturant sit down and order a meal. Businesses, well shops and stores would be subject to this law, but an office were only the workers are allowed in would not since not anyone can just walk in there.

I know it's a bit poorly worded in the bill, I'll change it as well. 

I'd like to amend the bill to read:

1. It shall be illegal in the Mideast, for a person to smoke inside buildings and establishments open to the public, such as bars, restaurants, public transporting, cinemas, and libraries.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, then that person shall be fined no less than a hundred dollars and no more than five hundred dollars.
3. Smoking inside buildings that are not open to the public, shall not be affected by the passage of this Act.

Is it better?

The following bill is placed in the queue.

Xth Constitutional Amendment

Article IV (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Third_Constitution#Article_IV_-_Election_Regulations), Section 1, Clause 7 is amended to read:

In order to be a candidate on the ballot, a candidate must declare their candidacy at least two days before the election.


I support this amendment.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 12, 2009, 08:07:09 AM
Quote
I have a problem with clause 1.  The wording makes it illegal for a Mideasterner to smoke in a public place, so technically, if I were to smoke in California, I could be prosecuted back home under this law.  Furthermore, somebody from the Pacific could smoke here in the Mideast.

You're right it does. *facepalm* I'll change it.

Quote
What are we defining as "private areas"?  Are restaurants and businesses public or private?

A resturant is open to the public as anyone can walk in to a resturant sit down and order a meal. Businesses, well shops and stores would be subject to this law, but an office were only the workers are allowed in would not since not anyone can just walk in there.

I know it's a bit poorly worded in the bill, I'll change it as well. 

I'd like to amend the bill to read:

1. It shall be illegal in the Mideast, for a person to smoke inside buildings and establishments open to the public, such as bars, restaurants, public transporting, cinemas, and libraries.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, then that person shall be fined no less than a hundred dollars and no more than five hundred dollars.
3. Smoking inside buildings that are not open to the public, shall not be affected by the passage of this Act.

Is it better?

The following bill is placed in the queue.

Xth Constitutional Amendment

Article IV (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Third_Constitution#Article_IV_-_Election_Regulations), Section 1, Clause 7 is amended to read:

In order to be a candidate on the ballot, a candidate must declare their candidacy at least two days before the election.


I support this amendment.



I agree with everything said by JOHN91043353 here.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on July 12, 2009, 04:43:24 PM
In clause 1, can't you write "buildings, establishments and infrastructures (the latter not opened to fresh air)", or something like that, because public transports aren't precisely buildings or establishments ?

Sorry for my English words which are not precise enough, but everyone may have understood what is my suggestion.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on July 13, 2009, 10:10:24 AM
The following bill is placed in the queue.

Xth Constitutional Amendment

Article IV (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Third_Constitution#Article_IV_-_Election_Regulations), Section 1, Clause 7 is amended to read:

In order to be a candidate on the ballot, a candidate must declare their candidacy at least two days before the election.


An excellent idea which I fully support. May I suggest (as a constituent) that the assembly modify language to:

"In order to be a candidate on the ballot, a candidate must declare their candidacy for that office on the Candidate Declaration Thread at least forty-eight (48) hours prior to the beginning of voting, other than absentee balloting, for said election."

The modified language would avoid confusion and guaranteed resulting litigation in a couple ways.
With the "two days" language there would inevitably be an election with the voting booth scheduled to start at (e.g.) 12:01 AM on the 3rd of the month, for which a candidate will declare their candidacy at 11:58 PM on the 1st and argue they declared "2 days before the election". "48 hours" will nip such lawsuits in the bud and is consistant with the amendment's goal of discouraging last minute candidacies.

The modified language also mandates declaration for specific office(s) on a prominent atlas thread designed for such purpose, to avoid anyone (for whatever reason) running a stealth campaign by posting an intent to run for "anything/everything" buried in a little-followed thread then claiming that met the technical requirements for ballot access, even though it clearly goes against the spirit and intent of the law.

Again, as I am not an assembly member at this time, I can only suggest such modifications in the hope others who are will formally propose an amendment for this worthwhile law.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on July 13, 2009, 10:26:38 AM
The following bill is placed in the queue.

Xth Constitutional Amendment

Article IV (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Third_Constitution#Article_IV_-_Election_Regulations), Section 1, Clause 7 is amended to read:

In order to be a candidate on the ballot, a candidate must declare their candidacy at least two days before the election.


An excellent idea which I fully support. May I suggest (as a constituent) that the assembly modify language to:

"In order to be a candidate on the ballot, a candidate must declare their candidacy for that office on the Candidate Declaration Thread at least forty-eight (48) hours prior to the beginning of voting, other than absentee balloting, for said election."

The modified language would avoid confusion and guaranteed resulting litigation in a couple ways.
With the "two days" language there would inevitably be an election with the voting booth scheduled to start at (e.g.) 12:01 AM on the 3rd of the month, for which a candidate will declare their candidacy at 11:58 PM on the 1st and argue they declared "2 days before the election". "48 hours" will nip such lawsuits in the bud and is consistant with the amendment's goal of discouraging last minute candidacies.

The modified language also mandates declaration for specific office(s) on a prominent atlas thread designed for such purpose, to avoid anyone (for whatever reason) running a stealth campaign by posting an intent to run for "anything/everything" buried in a little-followed thread then claiming that met the technical requirements for ballot access, even though it clearly goes against the spirit and intent of the law.

Again, as I am not an assembly member at this time, I can only suggest such modifications in the hope others who are will formally propose an amendment for this worthwhile law.
Agreed. I mean, isn't it like, 7 days now? If I was running for the Mideast Assembly, I probably would have missed the deadline too. Maybe it would have been better if someone would have notified that you had to declare by a certain day.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 13, 2009, 11:09:22 AM
Whilst I appreciate the discussion of my proposed amendment, I ask that debate of the bill be held until it is on the floor - it can often be difficult to keep track of the present business.

On the Public Smorking Ban Bill:

There has been a proposed amendment to change the bill from the sponsor to the following:

1. It shall be illegal in the Mideast, for a person to smoke inside buildings and establishments open to the public, such as bars, restaurants, public transporting, cinemas, and libraries.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, then that person shall be fined no less than a hundred dollars and no more than five hundred dollars.
3. Smoking inside buildings that are not open to the public, shall not be affected by the passage of this Act.

And officepark has indicated his assent above and so I shall input the changes as a friendly amendment. I shall also use Speaker's discretion to amend "transporting" to "transportation.

Public Smoking Ban Bill
1. It shall be illegal in the Mideast, for a person to smoke inside buildings and establishments open to the public, such as bars, restaurants, public transportation, cinemas, and libraries.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, then that person shall be fined no less than a hundred dollars and no more than five hundred dollars.
3. Smoking inside buildings that are not open to the public, shall not be affected by the passage of this Act.

Assemblymen have 24 hours to object to any of the above changes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 13, 2009, 09:13:32 PM
There is a problem with the bill; as it stands now, it is possible that a person is not in a building or establishment open to the public, yet he is smoking in public.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on July 13, 2009, 09:56:40 PM
There is a problem with the bill; as it stands now, it is possible that a person is not in a building or establishment open to the public, yet he is smoking in public.

Well we can't really ban people from smoking outside, even if it's a public park for example. (We'd be lynched by the smokers of the region if we passed such a bill :P)That's why I changed it from the original bill to start with.

 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 13, 2009, 10:05:35 PM
Well if we were to do that then smokers could simply get out of the building and go smoke outside, thereby simply moving public smoking from one place to another instead of really eliminating it. I think that we should amend the bill as follows:

Section 1 is amended to read "It shall be illegal in the Mideast for a person to smoke inside any area, building or establishment open to the public, including but not limited to parks, bars, restaurants, public transportation, cinemas, and libraries."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 13, 2009, 11:39:13 PM
Just to comment on the amendment - yall need to address the fact that voting can open anywhere between 0000 hours Thursday and 0001 Friday.  So if somebody who the Governor didn't like declared his/her candidacy at 10:58 P.M. Tuesday, the Governor could just open the booth at noon on Thursday and keep the candidate off the ballot.  You need to set a definitive time as to when candidacy declaration ends (I would suggest 48 hours before the 0000 hours Thursday).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on July 13, 2009, 11:41:04 PM
Just to comment on the amendment - yall need to address the fact that voting can open anywhere between 0000 hours Thursday and 0001 Friday.  So if somebody who the Governor didn't like declared his/her candidacy at 10:58 P.M. Tuesday, the Governor could just open the booth at noon on Thursday and keep the candidate off the ballot.  You need to set a definitive time as to when candidacy declaration ends (I would suggest 48 hours before the 0000 hours Thursday).

Something like the wording "forty-eight (48) hours before the earliest time the voting booth may be opened."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on July 14, 2009, 11:10:41 AM
Just to comment on the amendment - yall need to address the fact that voting can open anywhere between 0000 hours Thursday and 0001 Friday.  So if somebody who the Governor didn't like declared his/her candidacy at 10:58 P.M. Tuesday, the Governor could just open the booth at noon on Thursday and keep the candidate off the ballot.  You need to set a definitive time as to when candidacy declaration ends (I would suggest 48 hours before the 0000 hours Thursday).

Something like the wording "forty-eight (48) hours before the earliest time the voting booth may be opened."
Agreed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on July 14, 2009, 12:20:38 PM
There is a problem with the bill; as it stands now, it is possible that a person is not in a building or establishment open to the public, yet he is smoking in public.

Well we can't really ban people from smoking outside, even if it's a public park for example. (We'd be lynched by the smokers of the region if we passed such a bill :P)That's why I changed it from the original bill to start with.

 

My two cents on the above objections, plus something new that hopefully won't muddy the waters.

Officepark is correct that, as written, the law will not ban all smoking in public, merely in all public enclosed/semi-enclosed places such as bars, ballparks, etc. While some cities (like NY, IIRC) have had success with outright public smoking bans, perhaps it'd be wiser to start off with mostly banning it as this bill does and see how it works. Banning having to sit next to someone in a tavern who's smoking is one thing; banning having to pass someone along the street who's smoking may be overreaching at this time.

Officepark's comment about simply moving public smoking--rather than eliminating it altogether--from inside buildings to outside is correct. When smokers all congregate outside the entrance to a building, just entering and exiting through a ubiquitous cigarette fog is often enough get the health and nuisance effects (smelly clothes, etc) of a couple hours 'casual' exposure to secondhand smoke. Modeled after some municipal ordinances such as Columbus, what if the ban were to include a prohibition on loitering while smoking within, say, 10 feet of the entrances of any public place (however the amendment ultimately defines them)? Since such a violation is less egregious than someone brazenly lighting up inside a restaurant, perhaps such outdoors offenders could be subject to a lesser penalty (e.g. fines from $25-$100). "Loitering" would not be hard to legally define so as to exclude people walking past a business while smoking as opposed to a mass of employees and customers turning the entrance to any establishment in to a de facto smokers lounge.

Finally, may I suggest the following amendment:
"Any facility or establishment that earns at least 50% of it's annual gross revenue from the sale of tobacco and paraphernalia for the smoking of tobacco may apply to the regional government for a license of variance, and this law shall not apply to any such duly licensed facility or establishment."

This is essentially a "Hookah Bar/Cigar Bar exemption" similar to what Columbus has. These establishments are small in number, but growing, and cater to people who come there for the purpose of buying and smoking quality "gourmet" and flavored tobaccos in water pipes or in cigar form. While the old argument that one should "expect" smoking when one goes to a bar or restaurant is simply unacceptable nowadays, going to a cigar bar and being offended by all the smoke is like going to a Hooters and complaining about the scantily-clad waitresses--"Why did you come here?!?" The "50%" figure is based on the complaints of Hookah and Cigar bar owners in Columbus who complained that the proposed 80% requirement would still force them out of business as they made a sizable chunk of their money from sales of juice, sandwiches, pop, etc., but 50% is still high enough that bars and restaurants can't easily circumvent the law merely by selling cigars and putting a few cigarette machines in the lobby. These businesses provide jobs and tax revenue for a legitimate purpose that doesn't broadly affect non-smokers, but this law as written will force them out of business.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 14, 2009, 03:40:41 PM
Just FYI, here's my thoughts - going into a restaurant is somebody's choice.  You can choose to eat somewhere where smoking isn't allowed.  Having to walk around in the city really isn't a choice - if you have to walk - you have to walk.

I'd rather see smoking banned on government owned property than in businesses.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on July 14, 2009, 04:03:05 PM
Just FYI, here's my thoughts - going into a restaurant is somebody's choice.  You can choose to eat somewhere where smoking isn't allowed.  Having to walk around in the city really isn't a choice - if you have to walk - you have to walk.

I'd rather see smoking banned on government owned property than in businesses.
But the reality is that unless all businesses are made smoking-free zones by legislative fiat, most will allow smoking so as to compete with other businesses that also allow it. The 'wisdom' of the invisible hand of the market thus turns most public facilities into smoking-permitted zones with the negative health and nu science effects of smoking customers inflicted on everybody. Government intrusion in this case can actually make the market more efficient. Consider my own example of a restaurant & bar I usually avoided before due to heavy smoke I frequent now that it's smoke free.

One could argue health department certifications should be optional for restaurants as the free market dictates customers will go to those places they know to be safe to eat, but in reality most establishments would dump the cost and oversight of such requirements making uninspected restaurants the norm, thus depriving consumers of any true options. This is essentially what the market has resulted in regarding public smoking.

The health effects of secondhand smoking are well-documented enough to warrant banning smoking in public facilities as discussed, particularly when the lassiz-faire market approach clearly results in most places allowing their customers and employees to be exposed to carcinogenic smoke.

Just curious, Gov: As the proposal clearly goes well beyond your postition of only banning smoking in government owned property, are you indicating you may veto this bill?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on July 14, 2009, 04:50:39 PM
Just FYI, here's my thoughts - going into a restaurant is somebody's choice.  You can choose to eat somewhere where smoking isn't allowed.  Having to walk around in the city really isn't a choice - if you have to walk - you have to walk.

I'd rather see smoking banned on government owned property than in businesses.
But the reality is that unless all businesses are made smoking-free zones by legislative fiat, most will allow smoking so as to compete with other businesses that also allow it. The 'wisdom' of the invisible hand of the market thus turns most public facilities into smoking-permitted zones with the negative health and nu science effects of smoking customers inflicted on everybody. Government intrusion in this case can actually make the market more efficient. Consider my own example of a restaurant & bar I usually avoided before due to heavy smoke I frequent now that it's smoke free.

One could argue health department certifications should be optional for restaurants as the free market dictates customers will go to those places they know to be safe to eat, but in reality most establishments would dump the cost and oversight of such requirements making uninspected restaurants the norm, thus depriving consumers of any true options. This is essentially what the market has resulted in regarding public smoking.

The health effects of secondhand smoking are well-documented enough to warrant banning smoking in public facilities as discussed, particularly when the lassiz-faire market approach clearly results in most places allowing their customers and employees to be exposed to carcinogenic smoke.

Just curious, Gov: As the proposal clearly goes well beyond your postition of only banning smoking in government owned property, are you indicating you may veto this bill?

Wow you're good! :)

As it is now we seem to be focusing only on visitors and customers to public buildings, which mean we are forgetting another important part of why this bill should be passed, namely the health of people that work in these public buildings and establishments. 

The Governor points out that if a customer is unhappy about people smoking inside, for example a restaurant, they can choose to leave, choose to eat somewhere else. A waiter who works at the restaurant does not have that choice. They have to work for about eight hours every day, five days a week in the very unhealthy environment that smoking creates in bars and restaurants. That’s how they support themselves, and make a living.   

When a similar bill, outlawing smoking in for example in bars and restaurants, were passed in Sweden (my old homeland before I moved to Atlasia) this was the main argument to why public smoking inside should be illegal. Due to working in smoke for such a long period of time, waiters, barmaids and people who holds similar occupations are the group that are worst effected by passive-smoking.

Sure someone can claims that those people could choose to quit their jobs if they don’t like working in a thick fog of poisonous smoke, but we have to be realistic, a single mother who has to feed two children, or a teenager working to save money for college can not just give up their jobs because it has a bad effect on their health. Passive smoking can be fatal, and if not fatal cause serious injuries and illnesses. Therefore I do not believe it should be up to restaurant owners to decide for themselves. I’m not a supporter of government intervening with businesses’ business, but this is about the health of several working Atlasians

I will not back down on this.

Quote
Officepark's comment about simply moving public smoking--rather than eliminating it altogether--from inside buildings to outside is correct. When smokers all congregate outside the entrance to a building, just entering and exiting through a ubiquitous cigarette fog is often enough get the health and nuisance effects (smelly clothes, etc) of a couple hours 'casual' exposure to secondhand smoke.

Although you make a very good point, exstending the bill to include the area around entrances would in my oppinion only make a simple thing complicated. It's my hope people will have enough common sense not to gather in crowds right in front of the door to smoke but actually placethemselves were they are not in the way.
 
Quote
Finally, may I suggest the following amendment:
"Any facility or establishment that earns at least 50% of it's annual gross revenue from the sale of tobacco and paraphernalia for the smoking of tobacco may apply to the regional government for a license of variance, and this law shall not apply to any such duly licensed facility or establishment."

This is essentially a "Hookah Bar/Cigar Bar exemption" similar to what Columbus has. These establishments are small in number, but growing, and cater to people who come there for the purpose of buying and smoking quality "gourmet" and flavored tobaccos in water pipes or in cigar form.

I will support such an amendment. Banning smoking in cigar bars is slightly silly, so this amendment is a good idea.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 15, 2009, 03:27:29 AM
Just FYI, here's my thoughts - going into a restaurant is somebody's choice.  You can choose to eat somewhere where smoking isn't allowed.  Having to walk around in the city really isn't a choice - if you have to walk - you have to walk.

I'd rather see smoking banned on government owned property than in businesses.
But the reality is that unless all businesses are made smoking-free zones by legislative fiat, most will allow smoking so as to compete with other businesses that also allow it. The 'wisdom' of the invisible hand of the market thus turns most public facilities into smoking-permitted zones with the negative health and nu science effects of smoking customers inflicted on everybody. Government intrusion in this case can actually make the market more efficient. Consider my own example of a restaurant & bar I usually avoided before due to heavy smoke I frequent now that it's smoke free.

One could argue health department certifications should be optional for restaurants as the free market dictates customers will go to those places they know to be safe to eat, but in reality most establishments would dump the cost and oversight of such requirements making uninspected restaurants the norm, thus depriving consumers of any true options. This is essentially what the market has resulted in regarding public smoking.

The health effects of secondhand smoking are well-documented enough to warrant banning smoking in public facilities as discussed, particularly when the lassiz-faire market approach clearly results in most places allowing their customers and employees to be exposed to carcinogenic smoke.

Just curious, Gov: As the proposal clearly goes well beyond your postition of only banning smoking in government owned property, are you indicating you may veto this bill?

I have not made my decision yet.  But I will say that if smoking were banned in both restaurants and on government property (open spaces), I would be more likely to sign it than if it just banned it in businesses and other closed spaces.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on July 15, 2009, 07:22:43 AM
Just FYI, here's my thoughts - going into a restaurant is somebody's choice.  You can choose to eat somewhere where smoking isn't allowed.  Having to walk around in the city really isn't a choice - if you have to walk - you have to walk.

I'd rather see smoking banned on government owned property than in businesses.
But the reality is that unless all businesses are made smoking-free zones by legislative fiat, most will allow smoking so as to compete with other businesses that also allow it. The 'wisdom' of the invisible hand of the market thus turns most public facilities into smoking-permitted zones with the negative health and nu science effects of smoking customers inflicted on everybody. Government intrusion in this case can actually make the market more efficient. Consider my own example of a restaurant & bar I usually avoided before due to heavy smoke I frequent now that it's smoke free.

One could argue health department certifications should be optional for restaurants as the free market dictates customers will go to those places they know to be safe to eat, but in reality most establishments would dump the cost and oversight of such requirements making uninspected restaurants the norm, thus depriving consumers of any true options. This is essentially what the market has resulted in regarding public smoking.

The health effects of secondhand smoking are well-documented enough to warrant banning smoking in public facilities as discussed, particularly when the lassiz-faire market approach clearly results in most places allowing their customers and employees to be exposed to carcinogenic smoke.

Just curious, Gov: As the proposal clearly goes well beyond your postition of only banning smoking in government owned property, are you indicating you may veto this bill?

Wow you're good! :)

Thanks! Does this count as an endorsement in the assembly race? ;-)

As it is now we seem to be focusing only on visitors and customers to public buildings, which mean we are forgetting another important part of why this bill should be passed, namely the health of people that work in these public buildings and establishments. 

The Governor points out that if a customer is unhappy about people smoking inside, for example a restaurant, they can choose to leave, choose to eat somewhere else. A waiter who works at the restaurant does not have that choice. They have to work for about eight hours every day, five days a week in the very unhealthy environment that smoking creates in bars and restaurants. That’s how they support themselves, and make a living.   

When a similar bill, outlawing smoking in for example in bars and restaurants, were passed in Sweden (my old homeland before I moved to Atlasia) this was the main argument to why public smoking inside should be illegal. Due to working in smoke for such a long period of time, waiters, barmaids and people who holds similar occupations are the group that are worst effected by passive-smoking.

Sure someone can claims that those people could choose to quit their jobs if they don’t like working in a thick fog of poisonous smoke, but we have to be realistic, a single mother who has to feed two children, or a teenager working to save money for college can not just give up their jobs because it has a bad effect on their health. Passive smoking can be fatal, and if not fatal cause serious injuries and illnesses. Therefore I do not believe it should be up to restaurant owners to decide for themselves. I’m not a supporter of government intervening with businesses’ business, but this is about the health of several working Atlasians

I will not back down on this.

Hear hear!

Quote
Officepark's comment about simply moving public smoking--rather than eliminating it altogether--from inside buildings to outside is correct. When smokers all congregate outside the entrance to a building, just entering and exiting through a ubiquitous cigarette fog is often enough get the health and nuisance effects (smelly clothes, etc) of a couple hours 'casual' exposure to secondhand smoke.

Although you make a very good point, exstending the bill to include the area around entrances would in my oppinion only make a simple thing complicated. It's my hope people will have enough common sense not to gather in crowds right in front of the door to smoke but actually placethemselves were they are not in the way.

Point taken. Although I support this idea, I realize that many may view it as overreaching. I suggested it primarily to address Officepark's valid concerns.
Your optomism of people's common sense is encouraging, my friend, but in practice they've let you down here. :-(  Until the 10 ft. "buffer zone" rules were enacted, every establishment's entrance became the smokers' cloudy smelly carcinogenic refuge.
 
Quote
Finally, may I suggest the following amendment:
"Any facility or establishment that earns at least 50% of it's annual gross revenue from the sale of tobacco and paraphernalia for the smoking of tobacco may apply to the regional government for a license of variance, and this law shall not apply to any such duly licensed facility or establishment."

This is essentially a "Hookah Bar/Cigar Bar exemption" similar to what Columbus has. These establishments are small in number, but growing, and cater to people who come there for the purpose of buying and smoking quality "gourmet" and flavored tobaccos in water pipes or in cigar form.

I will support such an amendment. Banning smoking in cigar bars is slightly silly, so this amendment is a good idea.

Thank you!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on July 15, 2009, 07:25:16 AM
Just FYI, here's my thoughts - going into a restaurant is somebody's choice.  You can choose to eat somewhere where smoking isn't allowed.  Having to walk around in the city really isn't a choice - if you have to walk - you have to walk.

I'd rather see smoking banned on government owned property than in businesses.
But the reality is that unless all businesses are made smoking-free zones by legislative fiat, most will allow smoking so as to compete with other businesses that also allow it. The 'wisdom' of the invisible hand of the market thus turns most public facilities into smoking-permitted zones with the negative health and nu science effects of smoking customers inflicted on everybody. Government intrusion in this case can actually make the market more efficient. Consider my own example of a restaurant & bar I usually avoided before due to heavy smoke I frequent now that it's smoke free.

One could argue health department certifications should be optional for restaurants as the free market dictates customers will go to those places they know to be safe to eat, but in reality most establishments would dump the cost and oversight of such requirements making uninspected restaurants the norm, thus depriving consumers of any true options. This is essentially what the market has resulted in regarding public smoking.

The health effects of secondhand smoking are well-documented enough to warrant banning smoking in public facilities as discussed, particularly when the lassiz-faire market approach clearly results in most places allowing their customers and employees to be exposed to carcinogenic smoke.

Just curious, Gov: As the proposal clearly goes well beyond your postition of only banning smoking in government owned property, are you indicating you may veto this bill?

I have not made my decision yet.  But I will say that if smoking were banned in both restaurants and on government property (open spaces), I would be more likely to sign it than if it just banned it in businesses and other closed spaces.

Wouldn't "public places" as the bill defines it include government property open to the public? I think I know what you're getting at--and actually agree with you too--but could you elaborate a little so we're all on the same page?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 15, 2009, 10:07:56 AM
Section 1 is amended to read "It shall be illegal in the Mideast for a person to smoke inside any area, building or establishment open to the public, including but not limited to parks, bars, restaurants, public transportation, cinemas, and libraries."
Voting on the above Amendment is open.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 15, 2009, 11:57:44 AM
Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 15, 2009, 01:47:45 PM
I must vote against the amendment.

My principal reason for supporting the bill is the sense that it is damaging to the health of others for a smoker to smoke in an enclosed environment in their presence.  I have seen little evidence in real life, and none presented to this Assembly, that would indicate that smoking in the open air, such as in a park, is damaging to other nearby users of the park, hence I oppose the amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on July 15, 2009, 02:03:51 PM
I must vote against the amendment.

My principal reason for supporting the bill is the sense that it is damaging to the health of others for a smoker to smoke in an enclosed environment in their presence.  I have seen little evidence in real life, and none presented to this Assembly, that would indicate that smoking in the open air, such as in a park, is damaging to other nearby users of the park, hence I oppose the amendment.

As I said before, we cannot stop people from smoking outside. I also have to vote against the amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 15, 2009, 02:12:38 PM
The Noes have it. The Noes have it.

There are no pending amendments to the bill on the floor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on July 15, 2009, 02:26:06 PM
I'd like to introduce the following amendment as suggested by citizen Badger.

Public Smoking Ban Bill
1. It shall be illegal in the Mideast, for a person to smoke inside buildings and establishments open to the public, such as bars, restaurants, public transportation, cinemas, and libraries.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, then that person shall be fined no less than a hundred dollars and no more than five hundred dollars.
3. Smoking inside buildings that are not open to the public, shall not be affected by the passage of this Act.
4. Any facility or establishment that earns at least 50% of it's annual gross revenue from the sale of tobacco and paraphernalia for the smoking of tobacco may apply to the regional government for a license of variance, and this law shall not apply to any such duly licensed facility or establishment.

Also I really hope we'll be able to have a final vote before the 6th Assembly ends. 



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 16, 2009, 03:12:52 PM
4. Any facility or establishment that earns at least 50% of it's annual gross revenue from the sale of tobacco and paraphernalia for the smoking of tobacco may apply to the regional government for a license of variance, and this law shall not apply to any such duly licensed facility or establishment.
We are voting on an amendment to add the above clause 4 to the bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on July 16, 2009, 03:39:56 PM
4. Any facility or establishment that earns at least 50% of it's annual gross revenue from the sale of tobacco and paraphernalia for the smoking of tobacco may apply to the regional government for a license of variance, and this law shall not apply to any such duly licensed facility or establishment.
We are voting on an amendment to add the above clause 4 to the bill.

Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on July 16, 2009, 06:55:09 PM
If I were a member of this assembly, I'd point out some past studies that actually measure the toxicity of the pollutants in cigarette smoke outside. Cigarette smoke, outside, has been measured as more harmful than car exhaust fumes. Shame I don't read this thread often.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 17, 2009, 09:26:10 AM
If I were a member of this assembly, I'd point out some past studies that actually measure the toxicity of the pollutants in cigarette smoke outside. Cigarette smoke, outside, has been measured as more harmful than car exhaust fumes. Shame I don't read this thread often.
At what sort of proximity?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 17, 2009, 03:57:53 PM
Abstain.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 17, 2009, 05:07:44 PM
Abstain

The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it.

The bill stands as stated in Swedish Cheese's post above.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 19, 2009, 06:25:46 AM
Public Smoking Ban Bill
1. It shall be illegal in the Mideast, for a person to smoke inside buildings and establishments open to the public, such as bars, restaurants, public transportation, cinemas, and libraries.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, then that person shall be fined no less than a hundred dollars and no more than five hundred dollars.
3. Smoking inside buildings that are not open to the public, shall not be affected by the passage of this Act.
4. Any facility or establishment that earns at least 50% of it's annual gross revenue from the sale of tobacco and paraphernalia for the smoking of tobacco may apply to the regional government for a license of variance, and this law shall not apply to any such duly licensed facility or establishment.
Debate has ended for more than 24 hours. A vote on this bill is called.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on July 19, 2009, 06:34:08 AM
Public Smoking Ban Bill
1. It shall be illegal in the Mideast, for a person to smoke inside buildings and establishments open to the public, such as bars, restaurants, public transportation, cinemas, and libraries.
2. If a person is found guilty of smoking in public areas, then that person shall be fined no less than a hundred dollars and no more than five hundred dollars.
3. Smoking inside buildings that are not open to the public, shall not be affected by the passage of this Act.
4. Any facility or establishment that earns at least 50% of it's annual gross revenue from the sale of tobacco and paraphernalia for the smoking of tobacco may apply to the regional government for a license of variance, and this law shall not apply to any such duly licensed facility or establishment.
Debate has ended for more than 24 hours. A vote on this bill is called.

Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 19, 2009, 12:46:40 PM
Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 19, 2009, 12:50:22 PM
Aye.

The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it. The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his signature or veto.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 19, 2009, 02:56:01 PM
I hereby introduce our next item in a pre-amended form:

Constitutional Amendment to change the candidacy declaration deadline

Article IV, Section 1, Clause 7 is amended to read:

In order to be a candidate on the ballot, a candidate must declare their candidacy for that office on the Candidate Declaration Thread at least forty-eight hours prior to the earliest possible commencement of the election for that office.

Debate is now open


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 19, 2009, 03:16:55 PM
I support this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 21, 2009, 02:09:28 AM
Constitutional Amendment to change the candidacy declaration deadline

Article IV, Section 1, Clause 7 is amended to read:

In order to be a candidate on the ballot, a candidate must declare their candidacy for that office on the Candidate Declaration Thread at least forty-eight hours prior to the earliest possible commencement of the election for that office.
24 hours have passed without debate.

Voting on the bill is open.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 21, 2009, 02:25:44 PM
Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on July 21, 2009, 03:21:44 PM
Aye to the amendment



When exactly does the 6th assembly end and the 7th begin?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 21, 2009, 03:59:08 PM
Aye

This Session ends on Friday at noon per Article IV, Section 1, Clause 8 of the Mideast Constitution (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Constitution#Article_IV_-_Election_Regulations).

The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it. The Governor is directed to arrange a public poll for ratification of this Amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 21, 2009, 06:02:39 PM
Aye

This Session ends on Friday at noon per Article IV, Section 1, Clause 8 of the Mideast Constitution (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Constitution#Article_IV_-_Election_Regulations).

The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it. The Governor is directed to arrange a public poll for ratification of this Amendment.

Said poll will open on Thursday at noon.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 24, 2009, 07:47:30 AM
As soon as possible please Mr Governor ....


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 24, 2009, 12:35:14 PM
The 6th Assembly is hereby adjourned sine die. Its business is dismissed and its members mandates have now expired. The New Assembly is directed to swear-in.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 24, 2009, 03:09:06 PM
Order, Order.

As Dean of the Assembly, I assume the Chair to preside over an election of Speaker. I ask for nominations.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on July 24, 2009, 04:02:58 PM
Order, Order.

As Dean of the Assembly, I assume the Chair to preside over an election of Speaker. I ask for nominations.
As he is the most experienced member of Atlasian government in the Assembly, I hereby nominate Peter for Speaker.

Second?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on July 24, 2009, 06:10:15 PM
Aye

This Session ends on Friday at noon per Article IV, Section 1, Clause 8 of the Mideast Constitution (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Constitution#Article_IV_-_Election_Regulations).

The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it. The Governor is directed to arrange a public poll for ratification of this Amendment.

Said poll will open on Thursday at noon.
The vote has obviously been delayed. Any idea when we can expect the polls to open, Governor?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on July 25, 2009, 03:36:23 AM
Order, Order.

As Dean of the Assembly, I assume the Chair to preside over an election of Speaker. I ask for nominations.
As he is the most experienced member of Atlasian government in the Assembly, I hereby nominate Peter for Speaker.

I second the nomination.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 25, 2009, 11:44:42 AM
Aye

This Session ends on Friday at noon per Article IV, Section 1, Clause 8 of the Mideast Constitution (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Constitution#Article_IV_-_Election_Regulations).

The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it. The Governor is directed to arrange a public poll for ratification of this Amendment.

Said poll will open on Thursday at noon.
The vote has obviously been delayed. Any idea when we can expect the polls to open, Governor?

My apologies - some personal stuff came up, and I completely forgot about this until last night, but I was unable to get on the computer because we had guests sleeping in the basement where the computer is.  It'll be up for a vote next Thursday at noon.  Again, my apologies.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on July 27, 2009, 06:26:47 AM
Many thanks to those of you have nominated me. I happily accept another term.

Just a FYI - my internet access will be sporadic this week - I have just moved house and there is no connection there yet which means I will be reliant on library services.

Any bill once posted shall become the business of this assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on July 28, 2009, 05:47:08 PM
I also will be absent for most, if not all of the next week and a half starting this Friday. My family and I are going camping and won't be back until 8/9. IF I find a little down time when visiting my folks in town I'll try to check in, but it's unlikely.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on July 28, 2009, 06:24:25 PM
I also will be absent for most, if not all of the next week and a half starting this Friday. My family and I are going camping and won't be back until 8/9. IF I find a little down time when visiting my folks in town I'll try to check in, but it's unlikely.

Actually that's pretty good timeing, cause I'll be away Friday to Monday.

Looks like there will not be much action in the Assembly this week :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on August 09, 2009, 12:47:15 PM
Since Badger said he'd most likely be back sometime today, and since Peter hopefully has settled in his new place by now, I have decided it's time to get the Assembly running again.

I'd like to introduce the following bill to the Assembly.

Mideast Freedom to Roam Bill

1 Anyone shall have the right to access, use, and pass through privately owned land in the Mideast Region. Such as beaches, forests, and fields, as long as they do not damage or disturb the area in any way.   
2 It shall be legal to camp on private land for a maximum of 48 hours, as long as campers do not in any form damage or disturb the area, and leave the place in the same condition as they found it.
3 Activities that require usage of the area's resources, such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking, may not be practiced without the landowner's clear consent.   
4 The direct circumferences of 60 m around residential buildings are considered gardens and yards, and are therefore excluded from this bill.
5 Nature reserves and other areas with delicate and sensitive ecosystems are excluded from this bill.
6 Fields were crops are being grown, are excluded from this bill.
7 During hunts, landowners have the right to dismiss visitors from the hunting ground.
8 If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, damages or disturbs the area by polluting, vandalising, and ruining the surroundings, they may be subject to a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.   
9 If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, chooses to illegally engage in activities such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking may be subject for a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.
10 If a landowner, without reason, tries to dismiss or chase away people from his or her land, he or she may be subject for a fine of up to $250.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on August 09, 2009, 12:49:02 PM
WTF you can camp on private land!!  That is easily the most disasterous thing I have heard in awhile


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on August 09, 2009, 12:55:57 PM
WTF you can camp on private land!!  That is easily the most disasterous thing I have heard in awhile

You can in Sweden, Finland, Norway and Scotland. No one is complaining here ;) It's really great for the tourism. People come from Germany and Denmark and the Netherlands to camp in the wildernes, buy things in our stores, and eat at our resturants. So it might help create a boost in tourism in the Mideast, which would of course be helpful to our economy. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on August 09, 2009, 03:05:32 PM
Perhaps it would be better to qualify this by setting a minimum size the land needs to be. If I'm on half an acre, the last thing I want is a trailer pulling up onto my lawn and pitching tents all over. But if I own a massive forest in my backyard, this could be beneficial.

I would rather some choice in this though, perhaps a registry that people sign up on if they wouldn't mind. Just seems like we would be impinging a bit on property rights otherwise.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on August 09, 2009, 03:20:31 PM
Perhaps it would be better to qualify this by setting a minimum size the land needs to be. If I'm on half an acre, the last thing I want is a trailer pulling up onto my lawn and pitching tents all over. But if I own a massive forest in my backyard, this could be beneficial.

Sure, this sounds reasonable. The idea is of course not for people to be able to camp in someone's backyard, but as you said in a forest where they don't disturb someone. I'm not too well aqauainted with American seize terms, so I'm not sure how big the minimun size should be. Any ideas?

 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on August 10, 2009, 06:44:32 AM
Your clause 4 is somewhat difficult to interpret - I would suggest that you probably meant radius and not circumference?

I would suggest that any area under 400 acres needs to be excepted from the legislation (this may sound big, but in reality the amount of actual walkable woodland it will remove from consideration is neglible.

There is also a typo in clause 6 (where not were), and I would suggest that areas where young animals are being reared be excepted also (if only for the safety of roamers).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on August 10, 2009, 09:26:37 AM
One thing I've been reading into that I would be interested in having a law passed for is something saying that you can't make a certain breed of dog illegal.  In many counties and states dogs like pitbulls and Staffordshire Bull Terriers are illegal.  I know some people think these breeds are dangerous it isn't the breed but the owners that create the danger.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 10, 2009, 10:24:19 AM
One thing I've been reading into that I would be interested in having a law passed for is something saying that you can't make a certain breed of dog illegal.  In many counties and states dogs like pitbulls and Staffordshire Bull Terriers are illegal.  I know some people think these breeds are dangerous it isn't the breed but the owners that create the danger.
That's a great idea, and the statement bolded is 100% correct. Dogs are not born mean.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on August 10, 2009, 11:02:00 AM
Your clause 4 is somewhat difficult to interpret - I would suggest that you probably meant radius and not circumference?

I would suggest that any area under 400 acres needs to be excepted from the legislation (this may sound big, but in reality the amount of actual walkable woodland it will remove from consideration is neglible.

There is also a typo in clause 6 (where not were), and I would suggest that areas where young animals are being reared be excepted also (if only for the safety of roamers).

I'd like to amend my bill to correct my mistakes and add Peter's proposals.

Mideast Freedom to Roam Bill

1 Anyone shall have the right to access, use, and pass through privately owned land in the Mideast Region. Such as beaches, forests, and fields, as long as they do not damage or disturb the area in any way.   
2 It shall be legal to camp on private land for a maximum of 48 hours, as long as campers do not in any form damage or disturb the area, and leave the place in the same condition as they found it.
3 Activities that require usage of the area's resources, such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking, may not be practiced without the landowner's clear consent.   
4 The direct radiuses of 100 m around residential buildings are considered gardens and yards, and are therefore excluded from this bill.
5 Privately owned land that does not exceed the seize of 400 acres is excluded from this bill.   
6 Nature reserves and other areas with delicate and sensitive ecosystems are excluded from this bill.
7 Fields where crops are being grown are excluded from this bill.
8 Areas where young animals are reared are excluded from this bill.
9 During hunts, landowners have the right to dismiss visitors from the hunting ground.
10 If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, damages or disturbs the area by polluting, vandalising, and ruining the surroundings, they may be subject to a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.   
11 If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, chooses to illegally engage in activities such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking may be subject for a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.
12 If a landowner, without reason, tries to dismiss or chase away people from his or her land, he or she may be subject for a fine of up to $250.
 
One thing I've been reading into that I would be interested in having a law passed for is something saying that you can't make a certain breed of dog illegal.  In many counties and states dogs like pitbulls and Staffordshire Bull Terriers are illegal.  I know some people think these breeds are dangerous it isn't the breed but the owners that create the danger.

I would support a bill like this. With the wrong owner most breeds can become dangerous, not just pitbulls, and other attack dogs. I see no reason to punish the good dog owners, because other owners are unable to raise their pets properly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 10, 2009, 11:50:06 AM
Your clause 4 is somewhat difficult to interpret - I would suggest that you probably meant radius and not circumference?

I would suggest that any area under 400 acres needs to be excepted from the legislation (this may sound big, but in reality the amount of actual walkable woodland it will remove from consideration is neglible.

There is also a typo in clause 6 (where not were), and I would suggest that areas where young animals are being reared be excepted also (if only for the safety of roamers).

I'd like to amend my bill to correct my mistakes and add Peter's proposals.

Mideast Freedom to Roam Bill

1 Anyone shall have the right to access, use, and pass through privately owned land in the Mideast Region. Such as beaches, forests, and fields, as long as they do not damage or disturb the area in any way.   
2 It shall be legal to camp on private land for a maximum of 48 hours, as long as campers do not in any form damage or disturb the area, and leave the place in the same condition as they found it.
3 Activities that require usage of the area's resources, such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking, may not be practiced without the landowner's clear consent.   
4 The direct radiuses of 100 m around residential buildings are considered gardens and yards, and are therefore excluded from this bill.
5 Privately owned land that does not exceed the seize of 400 acres is excluded from this bill.   
6 Nature reserves and other areas with delicate and sensitive ecosystems are excluded from this bill.
7 Fields where crops are being grown are excluded from this bill.
8 Areas where young animals are reared are excluded from this bill.
9 During hunts, landowners have the right to dismiss visitors from the hunting ground.
10 If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, damages or disturbs the area by polluting, vandalising, and ruining the surroundings, they may be subject to a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.   
11 If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, chooses to illegally engage in activities such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking may be subject for a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.
12 If a landowner, without reason, tries to dismiss or chase away people from his or her land, he or she may be subject for a fine of up to $250.
 


MUCH better. I just got back on line now, but my point reiterates Peter's. That said, my biggest discomfort with the bill is the intrusion into property owner's privacy immediately around their homes. I like the overall thrust of the bill (it apparently works in Scandinavia) but feel the 100 m barrier around ones residence is still too small. I wouldn't like the idea of having a tract of land 20 X 20 acres (i.e. 400 sq. acres) would allow strangers to squat for the weekend barely a football field from my home and family.

Since we're expanding the minimum property size to 400+ acres, what's the maximum size barrier around ones residence we could establish without fundamentally undermining the law's purpose?
200 m? 300?

Finally, I'm not 100% sure, but is the penalties section even necessary? Visitors would presumably be subject to regular local/state ordinances regulating hunting/distruction of property/vandalism, etc., and landowners trying to wrongfully eject visitors from their property would likewise subject to laws re: menacing, assault, disorderly conduct, etc. If landowners summoned the police for visitors lawfully on their property they would normally just be told "sorry, they're within their rights so call us only if they cause problems".


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on August 10, 2009, 12:07:42 PM
I wouldn't like the idea of having a tract of land 20 X 20 acres (i.e. 400 sq. acres) would allow strangers to squat for the weekend barely a football field from my home and family.

Kind of unrelated, but if it's considered "squatting", then it's not something that should be legalized.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 11, 2009, 11:36:42 AM
I wouldn't like the idea of having a tract of land 20 X 20 acres (i.e. 400 sq. acres) would allow strangers to squat for the weekend barely a football field from my home and family.

Kind of unrelated, but if it's considered "squatting", then it's not something that should be legalized.
I see your point, but I used the term generically in this case.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on August 11, 2009, 02:33:07 PM
I'd like to amend my bill to correct my mistakes and add Peter's proposals.

Mideast Freedom to Roam Bill

1 Anyone shall have the right to access, use, and pass through privately owned land in the Mideast Region. Such as beaches, forests, and fields, as long as they do not damage or disturb the area in any way.   
2 It shall be legal to camp on private land for a maximum of 48 hours, as long as campers do not in any form damage or disturb the area, and leave the place in the same condition as they found it.
3 Activities that require usage of the area's resources, such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking, may not be practiced without the landowner's clear consent.   
4 The direct radiuses of 100 m around residential buildings are considered gardens and yards, and are therefore excluded from this bill.
5 Privately owned land that does not exceed the seize of 400 acres is excluded from this bill.   
6 Nature reserves and other areas with delicate and sensitive ecosystems are excluded from this bill.
7 Fields where crops are being grown are excluded from this bill.
8 Areas where young animals are reared are excluded from this bill.
9 During hunts, landowners have the right to dismiss visitors from the hunting ground.
10 If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, damages or disturbs the area by polluting, vandalising, and ruining the surroundings, they may be subject to a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.   
11 If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, chooses to illegally engage in activities such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking may be subject for a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.
12 If a landowner, without reason, tries to dismiss or chase away people from his or her land, he or she may be subject for a fine of up to $250.
The above amendment is accepted as friendly unless Badger objects. If there are any further amendments, please submit them in the next 24 hours otherwise we shall proceed to vote on the legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 11, 2009, 06:47:10 PM
I'd like to amend my bill to correct my mistakes and add Peter's proposals.

Mideast Freedom to Roam Bill

1 Anyone shall have the right to access, use, and pass through privately owned land in the Mideast Region. Such as beaches, forests, and fields, as long as they do not damage or disturb the area in any way.   
2 It shall be legal to camp on private land for a maximum of 48 hours, as long as campers do not in any form damage or disturb the area, and leave the place in the same condition as they found it.
3 Activities that require usage of the area's resources, such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking, may not be practiced without the landowner's clear consent.   
4 The direct radiuses of 100 m around residential buildings are considered gardens and yards, and are therefore excluded from this bill.
5 Privately owned land that does not exceed the seize of 400 acres is excluded from this bill.   
6 Nature reserves and other areas with delicate and sensitive ecosystems are excluded from this bill.
7 Fields where crops are being grown are excluded from this bill.
8 Areas where young animals are reared are excluded from this bill.
9 During hunts, landowners have the right to dismiss visitors from the hunting ground.
10 If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, damages or disturbs the area by polluting, vandalising, and ruining the surroundings, they may be subject to a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.   
11 If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, chooses to illegally engage in activities such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking may be subject for a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.
12 If a landowner, without reason, tries to dismiss or chase away people from his or her land, he or she may be subject for a fine of up to $250.
The above amendment is accepted as friendly unless Badger objects. If there are any further amendments, please submit them in the next 24 hours otherwise we shall proceed to vote on the legislation.
No objection.

I offer the following amendment: "100 m" in line 4 changed to "250 m".


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 11, 2009, 06:55:14 PM
Just to give my input - I'm not comfortable forcing this on people - I don't plan on signing it.  If you want to make this something voluntary, go right ahead, but I think this is a violation of private property.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 11, 2009, 06:55:58 PM
Just to give my input - I'm not comfortable forcing this on people - I don't plan on signing it.  If you want to make this something voluntary, go right ahead, but I think this is a violation of private property.
I'm going to have to agree with Governor Inks. It's called "private property" for a reason.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 11, 2009, 07:09:06 PM
Just to give my input - I'm not comfortable forcing this on people - I don't plan on signing it.  If you want to make this something voluntary, go right ahead, but I think this is a violation of private property.
I'm going to have to agree with Governor Inks. It's called "private property" for a reason.
SC, can you elaborate more on how this works in Scandanavia? What problems, if any, where there when the law passed? Do landowners consider it a significant intrusion into their privacy?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on August 11, 2009, 10:20:14 PM
Just to give my input - I'm not comfortable forcing this on people - I don't plan on signing it.  If you want to make this something voluntary, go right ahead, but I think this is a violation of private property.
I'm going to have to agree with Governor Inks. It's called "private property" for a reason.
SC, can you elaborate more on how this works in Scandanavia? What problems, if any, where there when the law passed? Do landowners consider it a significant intrusion into their privacy?

It has been the common law since sometime before the 15th Century so it's a bit hard to tell what the original reaction to the law was. I can imagine some noblemen being upset by commoners being able to walk freely in their forests though.

Anyway here's what Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam) says about the Freedom to Roam.

Quote
Today, the right to roam has survived in perhaps its purest form in Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden. Here the right has been won through practice over hundreds of years and it is not known when it changed from mere 'common practice' to become a commonly recognised right.


Quote
Today these rights underpin opportunities for outdoor recreation in several of the Nordic countries, providing the opportunity to hike across or camp on another's land (e.g. in Sweden for one or two nights, or "temporarily"), boating on someone else's waters, and picking wildflowers, mushrooms and berries. However — with the rights come responsibilities; that is, an obligation neither to harm, disturb, litter, nor to damage wildlife or crops.

Quote
Everyone may walk, ski or cycle freely in the countryside where this does not harm the natural environment or the landowner, except in gardens or in the immediate vicinity of people’s homes (yards). Fields and plantations, which may easily be harmed, may usually not be crossed except in the winter.

Quote
In Sweden, the Allemansrätt (lit. All men's right) has existed for many centuries only as a customary law. But since 1994 it is part of the Swedish constitution. As in other Nordic countries, the Swedish right to roam comes with an equal emphasis being placed upon the responsibility to look after the countryside; the maxim is "Do not disturb, do not destroy".

Quote
The Allemansrätt gives a person the right to access, walk, cycle, ride, ski, and camp on any land - with the exception of private gardens, the immediate vicinity of a dwelling house and land under cultivation, and with restrictions for nature reserves and other protected areas. It also gives the right to pick wildflowers, mushrooms and berries provided one knows they are not legally protected, as well as the right to visit beaches, to swim in any lake and put an unpowered boat on any water. Exception if the beach belongs to a private garden. Permission to build a private house is usually not given so close to the beach that this right is obstructed.

______________________________________

The Allemanrätt (Freedom to Roam) is mostly considered to be a very positive thing here. For example, when asking Swedes about what they think makes our country the best in the world, the Freedom to Roam is often brought up as a reason. And as it says in one of the quotes, it's actually one of our constitutional rights.

The few here that opposes the law, most often critic polluting. There is a problem that many that walks into the woods do leave some trash behind themselves. A problem that I admit is troublesom, and the reason I introduced the 10th clause. Besides that there really is no major oppotition against it. Personally I can't recall ever hearing anyone bring up privacy as an issue.

We have come to realise that this law is very benfitial. Not only do we get a lot of tourists from Germany, Denmark, and the Netherlands, that want to experiance, but Swedes in general has great joy from it. People like being able to walk into random forests without having to track down the owner and ask for premission. They like being able take take their kids and sledges to nearest hill when it's been snowing without having to worry if the landowner approve or not. 

I can understand (and I kind of excpected) the opposition to this proposal from the right, because it is in many ways a socialist ideal. It's built on the foundation that, what's mine is yours. So maybe that's why it works well in my very socialist home country, but I think that

I hope that answers your questions Badger :)

   


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on August 12, 2009, 03:43:16 AM
Perhaps we want to consider something closer to the lines of the English "Right to Roam" (http://www.ramblers.org.uk/freedom/righttoroam/), which opened up large estates in English National Parks?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on August 12, 2009, 05:09:03 AM
The problem is that when you allow someone, even within strict limits, to stay on other's private property, there's always a risk of squatting beyond those limits (of time, of land, etc) and, AFTERWARDS, it's very hard to put the squatters off, because you need a decision from a judge and you need the police, etc.
So, don't take the risk... Only voluntary landowners should be allowed to greet roamers, campers or whoever they want.
The principle of private property must prevail.
And I thank our governor for his clear position.

In France, we've got many problems with Gypsies on (public or private) lands, who stay far longer than they are allowed to and whom you cannot push away as it would result in fightings with the police forces.

In France, the only exception to private property is the right to hunt on someone else's land, but only provided this land has no fence.

Wait, when you speak of Scandinavian countries, you of course speak of societies with far more individual respect for environment than in other countries (even our fine MidEast ;)).

Another problem with your proposal is that, when roamers or campers wound themselves on someone else's land (e.g. because there are wounding wastes or because this land isn't maintained and a dead tree falls on the campers), wouldn't some of them try to make the landowner responsible ?

And your 10th clause is completely unrealistic. It's not at all a protection.
Someone who wants to camp freely doesn't go the owner's house to declare his identity and give his card number in case he is fined at the end... !
And how do you legally prove who is responsible for "disturbances" ?

This proposal must be transformed to be about PUBLIC lands.
You may also create support for private landowners who VOLUNTARILY open their land.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on August 12, 2009, 06:51:41 AM
Quote
In France, we've got many problems with Gypsies on (public or private) lands, who stay far longer than they are allowed to and whom you cannot push away as it would result in fightings with the police forces.

I don't think we have a Gypsy problem in the Mideast. :P
But I understand your concern. However as you pointed out, you have this problem in France even though you don't have a law like this. They will pretty much stay where ever it pleases them, and this law will not change that. They still only have the right to stay there for two days, and it would be possible to add a clause to stop big groups of people from camping in the same area.   

Quote
In France, the only exception to private property is the right to hunt on someone else's land, but only provided this land has no fence.

Oh that's quite intresting actually. Hunting on someone else property without their consent is one of the things not allowed here.

Quote
Another problem with your proposal is that, when roamers or campers wound themselves on someone else's land (e.g. because there are wounding wastes or because this land isn't maintained and a dead tree falls on the campers), wouldn't some of them try to make the landowner responsible?

Some people will sue you for everything. Not so long a ago I saw a man on TV who sued a guy who his daughter had hit with a car. According to him it was the man who'd been hit's fault and not his own daughter's because the man had been standing in the way. So without doubt some people would try to use your example to get money, but thankfully, I'm sure our judges in the Mideast would do their job and dismiss all such cases very quickly. Trees fall down in the woods, accidents happen, even in the most well taken care of forests. Someone who wanders into a forest made a choice to go in there, and the landowners should therefore not be held responsible.

Quote
And your 10th clause is completely unrealistic. It's not at all a protection.
Someone who wants to camp freely doesn't go the owner's house to declare his identity and give his card number in case he is fined at the end... !
And how do you legally prove who is responsible for "disturbances" ?

I admit that you're probably rather correct about this part.

 
__________________________________________________

If the issue is mainly the 2nd clause of this bill, I would be willing to compromise by removing that part.

What I consider important is not the right to camp where it pleases you. I grew up being able to walk out into the forest not having to worry about who's property I'm on at the moment. I could play on the pasture next to my dad's house even though the land did belong to a neighbor. We could go swim in the lake nearby 7 am without first having to call and wake up the old lady that owned the lake to ask for her premission. That is what I consider important, and I really think the people of this region should have this right as well.

Especially the right to pass through private land is more vital them people seem to realise. When we learned about the Freedom to Roam in school, our teacher showed us an article about a farmer in some African country (can't remember which country though) who didn't want to sell his land to a corporation that were buying up the land in the area. When he refused to sell the corporation bought all land surrounding his and forbade him to pass through it. He was traped in his own land because if he moved outside of it he'd be breaking the law. So eventually he had to give up his land anyway. Therefore this right is not only to help non-landowners, but landowners as well.

I have to admit I don't see the point in passing a law that would make it voluntary. Landowners already has the right to make their land open to the public if they want to. If we do pass a Freedom to Roam bill (which I obviously hope we will) it should actually have an effect, and not just say: People have the freedom to roam where they want... as long as they've asked for the landowner premission."





Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on August 12, 2009, 08:21:35 AM
Your African example isn't a good one as, abuting the farmer's land, there were no public lands which could be ways on which he could get out of his home, travel, make trade, carry out his crop or his cattle, etc.
As you've insisted in your own answer, we're in MidEast ;)

My French examples were just FYI. I take Gypsies in France because it's well known and it's with many people (so more a problem when you have to dislodge them), but it can be with one man alone, but a very violent one, and your fines wouldn't do anything to prevent him from squatting your land.

I would add that some damages can't be compensated for,
as they may be massive (an entire forest burnt after just a small barbecue, for example)
or with consequences on the long term (a chemical pollution with products that "live" for decades or just one multi-centennial tree that is cut)
or just because money can't make it for nature, for natural diversity, for small ecological equilibrium.

You may think these examples are excessive when you've just aimed at camping, but when we introduce legislation, we must think about all the possible consequences.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on August 12, 2009, 08:41:53 AM
I urge the Governor to veto the bill if passed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on August 14, 2009, 03:50:58 AM
I offer the following amendment: "100 m" in line 4 changed to "250 m".
We are voting on the preceding amendment. Please vote now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on August 14, 2009, 12:30:38 PM
Why are meters used, anyway? They're not familiar to most residents.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on August 14, 2009, 01:59:46 PM
Why are meters used, anyway? They're not familiar to most residents.

^^^^

The customary system ought to be used instead.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on August 14, 2009, 03:49:18 PM
Why are meters used, anyway? They're not familiar to most residents.

My guess would be that the author of the bill is not familiar with the outdated American system. It's just a guess though. ;)

And there are quite a few citizens in the Mideast who orgin from other parts of the world than USA who're only familiar with the metric system as well, so ideal would be to have the mesurments in both the metric and customary system.   


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on August 14, 2009, 03:51:16 PM
Oh and I'm Abstain to the amendment. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 14, 2009, 03:54:51 PM
I offer the following amendment: "100 m" in line 4 changed to "250 m".
We are voting on the preceding amendment. Please vote now.

Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MaxQue on August 14, 2009, 04:43:19 PM
Why are meters used, anyway? They're not familiar to most residents.

^^^^

The customary system ought to be used instead.

Because of the Metric Conversion Act, voted in February 2008.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on August 14, 2009, 05:13:31 PM
Aye

The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it. 24 hours without substantive debate/further amendments by Assemblymen will cause a final vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 14, 2009, 11:23:39 PM
I don't think we have a Gypsy problem in the Mideast. :P

Clearly you've never met Al. :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on August 14, 2009, 11:28:43 PM

You mean "Al Widdershins", aka Realpolitik?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 14, 2009, 11:34:12 PM

Yeah that was the joke.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 15, 2009, 01:01:10 PM
I would ask the debate be extended for a period of time as I have a few issues I'm trying to resolve.

1st: Yes SC, thank you that did answer my questions quite well.

2nd: Peter and SC, what difference(s) do you see between the English right to roam law passed in 2005 that Peter linked and SC's proposal here? IF I read it correctly, the English law seems slightly more restrictive, but other than the right to close off ones property 28 days a year (a good idea IMHO, particularly for hunters) I can't put my finger on exactly why. I would like to explore the similarities and differences in crafting this bill.

Overall, I support the concept behind this bill: To allow freedom to hike and briefly camp on large private landholdings that do not impinge on use and enjoyment of the land. While I respect private property rights, I do not countenance the law blindly supporting a "dog in the manger" syndrome ("I'm not using it, but it's mine so no one else can enjoy it, so there").

I did have serious reservations about allowing such activities within ready view of a residence as being too intrusive. The amendment passed has lifted those concerns somewhat. That said, I am concerned that the burden of damage to any land will fall on the individual property owner. If there is litter or other damage to the public lands system that's a pain, but at least the cost and time of clean up is spread out among all society through the taxes paid to the state park service etc. If there is damage to an individual's property, it is born entirely by the landowner. Yes, the perpetrators my be caught and ultimately court-ordered to pay restitution, but the all too common scenario is that a property owner may only discover the damage after the perpetrators staying on his land--legally under this bill--have already left. By allowing private property owners to prohibit  strangers trespassing on their land is much easier to enforce and would avoid the potential for litter and property damage before it happens.

I'm not saying I oppose the bill, but I need some questions answered first.

My, don't I sound conservative. ;-)

I do offer the additional amendment:
"Owners of private property covered by this law may close their land from Freedom to Roam for 30 days each calendar year. Written notice of the beginning and end dates of any closure period must be received in writing by the local police authority at least 24 hours before any signage or other notice of closure is posted on the property.
Posting public notice. All public posting, notice or signage of property closure must include the beginning and end dates of said closure legibly written.
Violation of these provisions is punishable by up to a $250 fine on a first offense. For any repeat violation within five years of a prior conviction  is punishable by up to a $500 fine and/or 30 days incarceration. "


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on August 15, 2009, 05:34:03 PM
I understand your concerns Badger and I agree with you that owners should not have to pay for damages in those cases where no perpetrator is found. I’d suggest that the landowners should be able to seek compensation from the region when it happens. This would be financed by the proceeds from the fines in this bill.

There are a lot less damage caused due to the Freedom to Roam than people would think. Mostly it is just about litter, which is not a big cost to compensate.

I’ll have to leave the English Freedom to Roam part to Peter. If I’ve understood it right, the main difference with the English law is that, it only opens up certain private land. For example you can roam freely on private heaths but not in a private forest. I’m not sure I got it completely right though. Peter can probably clarify it. ;)

I do offer the additional amendment:
"Owners of private property covered by this law may close their land from Freedom to Roam for 30 days each calendar year. Written notice of the beginning and end dates of any closure period must be received in writing by the local police authority at least 24 hours before any signage or other notice of closure is posted on the property.
Posting public notice. All public posting, notice or signage of property closure must include the beginning and end dates of said closure legibly written.
Violation of these provisions is punishable by up to a $250 fine on a first offense. For any repeat violation within five years of a prior conviction  is punishable by up to a $500 fine and/or 30 days incarceration. "

I’m positive towards this amendment. It’s a very good idea.

Quote
My, don't I sound conservative. ;-)

Lol

Don't worry, in normal circumstances I'm the most conservative member of the Assembly, but on this issue I'm apperently far left, so it's probably only natrual you're pushed a bit towards the right ;) Everything will probably go back to normal as soon as we're finished with this bill.

 





Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on August 15, 2009, 06:08:35 PM
Why are meters used, anyway? They're not familiar to most residents.

^^^^

The customary system ought to be used instead.

Because of the Metric Conversion Act, voted in February 2008.

Ah, I thought that failed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on August 17, 2009, 09:46:55 AM
I do offer the additional amendment:
"Owners of private property covered by this law may close their land from Freedom to Roam for 30 days each calendar year. Written notice of the beginning and end dates of any closure period must be received in writing by the local police authority at least 24 hours before any signage or other notice of closure is posted on the property.
Posting public notice. All public posting, notice or signage of property closure must include the beginning and end dates of said closure legibly written.
Violation of these provisions is punishable by up to a $250 fine on a first offense. For any repeat violation within five years of a prior conviction  is punishable by up to a $500 fine and/or 30 days incarceration. "
I’m positive towards this amendment. It’s a very good idea.
This amendment will be accepted as friendly in 24 hours if there are no objections, and will be inserted as the last clause in the bill.

I cannot comment too expertly on the English Right to Roam - my understanding is that it applies to "open" land - i.e. any rural land that isn't used for growing crops or forest. Many prolific land owners, at least in the UK, own vast swaiths of open land often spanning hundreds of miles, and this is why the right to roam was brought in.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 18, 2009, 12:24:53 PM
I understand your concerns Badger and I agree with you that owners should not have to pay for damages in those cases where no perpetrator is found. I’d suggest that the landowners should be able to seek compensation from the region when it happens. This would be financed by the proceeds from the fines in this bill.

There are a lot less damage caused due to the Freedom to Roam than people would think. Mostly it is just about litter, which is not a big cost to compensate.

I’ll have to leave the English Freedom to Roam part to Peter. If I’ve understood it right, the main difference with the English law is that, it only opens up certain private land. For example you can roam freely on private heaths but not in a private forest. I’m not sure I got it completely right though. Peter can probably clarify it. ;)

I'm leery of a mechanism to publicly finance the litter cleanup of private land > 400 acres anytime the landowner reports (truthfully or not) said litter was caused by unknown persons enjoying (and abusing) Freedom to Roam on their property.

I wonder if the Freedom to Roam is as applicable in America as in England or Scandinavia. While there are huge non-farmed/logged/mined private land tracts in this country, I question whether there is nearly the same ratio as in England considering its history of landowning gentry.

That said, with the amendments to the bill, my reservations are sufficiently overcome that I do support this legislation.

Governor: You've indicated that you opposed this bill. Regardless of whether a veto can be overridden, your support would be welcome if at all possible. Can you offer any suggestions to the law, or is your view this simply too fundamental a violation of property rights?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on August 19, 2009, 07:10:52 AM
Bill stands as:

Mideast Freedom to Roam Bill
1. Anyone shall have the right to access, use, and pass through privately owned land in the Mideast Region. Such as beaches, forests, and fields, as long as they do not damage or disturb the area in any way.   
2. It shall be legal to camp on private land for a maximum of 48 hours, as long as campers do not in any form damage or disturb the area, and leave the place in the same condition as they found it.
3. Activities that require usage of the area's resources, such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking, may not be practiced without the landowner's clear consent.   
4. The direct radiuses of 250 m around residential buildings are considered gardens and yards, and are therefore excluded from this bill.
5. Privately owned land that does not exceed the seize of 400 acres is excluded from this bill. 
6. Nature reserves and other areas with delicate and sensitive ecosystems are excluded from this bill.
7. Fields where crops are being grown are excluded from this bill.
8. Areas where young animals are reared are excluded from this bill.
9. During hunts, landowners have the right to dismiss visitors from the hunting ground.
10. If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, damages or disturbs the area by polluting, vandalising, and ruining the surroundings, they may be subject to a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.   
11. If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, chooses to illegally engage in activities such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking may be subject for a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.
12. If a landowner, without reason, tries to dismiss or chase away people from his or her land, he or she may be subject for a fine of up to $250.
13. (a) Owners of private property covered by this law may close their land from Freedom to Roam for 30 days each calendar year. Written notice of the beginning and end dates of any closure period must be received in writing by the local police authority at least 24 hours before any signage or other notice of closure is posted on the property.
(b) Posting public notice. All public posting, notice or signage of property closure must include the beginning and end dates of said closure legibly written.
(c) Violation of these provisions is punishable by up to a $250 fine on a first offense. For any repeat violation within five years of a prior conviction  is punishable by up to a $500 fine and/or 30 days incarceration.

Above is the act as it stands - I've used Speaker's discretion to tidy up in a couple of places. I'll give Inks another 24 hours and then I'll move to a vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on August 20, 2009, 07:11:32 AM
The vote is on the bill in the post above. Please vote now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on August 20, 2009, 07:27:17 AM

   Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 20, 2009, 11:40:13 AM
Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on August 21, 2009, 03:28:42 AM
eeek, Aye.
The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it. The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his signature or veto.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 25, 2009, 01:15:00 PM
A point of order: Article III, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Mideast Region Constitution states:

"Should the Assembly pass ordinary legislation by a majority vote, then the Governor may sign such legislation into Law, or veto such legislation. A veto may be overturned upon the unanimous vote of the Assembly."

Does the unanimous Assembly vote passing the Freedom to Roam Bill by itself override the Governor's recent veto, or must a separate new Assembly vote to override the veto be held?

If the latter: Pursuant to the above-referenced section of the Mideast Constitution I move to override the 8/24/09 Gubernatorial Veto of the Mideast Freedom to Roam Bill.

While doing so, I also repeat my previous call for Governor Inks to offer proposals addressing his concerns over the bill. While I would oppose any measure that would fundamentally undercut the bill's basic goals, my hope is those goals might still be achieved with reasonable bipartisan compromise.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on August 25, 2009, 01:33:13 PM
A point of order: Article III, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Mideast Region Constitution states:

"Should the Assembly pass ordinary legislation by a majority vote, then the Governor may sign such legislation into Law, or veto such legislation. A veto may be overturned upon the unanimous vote of the Assembly."

Does the unanimous Assembly vote passing the Freedom to Roam Bill by itself override the Governor's recent veto, or must a separate new Assembly vote to override the veto be held?
I would be of the opinion that a separate override vote is needed, much as in the federal Senate.

Quote
If the latter: Pursuant to the above-referenced section of the Mideast Constitution I move to override the 8/24/09 Gubernatorial Veto of the Mideast Freedom to Roam Bill.

While doing so, I also repeat my previous call for Governor Inks to offer proposals addressing his concerns over the bill. While I would oppose any measure that would fundamentally undercut the bill's basic goals, my hope is those goals might still be achieved with reasonable bipartisan compromise.
Motion is recognised. I shall allow a minimum of 24 hours for debate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 25, 2009, 05:29:39 PM
I don't see a way that I'm going to ever support this bill unless it's made to be a voluntary program.

Although upon rereading the bill after it was passed by the Assembly, I noticed something I overlooked before:

The wording in Clause 10 seems to be slightly problematic:

Quote
10. If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, damages or disturbs the area by polluting, vandalising, and ruining the surroundings, they may be subject to a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.

According to a literal interpretation, a person would have to polute, vandalize, and ruin the surroundings in order to be fined.  The proper conjunction between "vandalising," and "ruining the surroundings" would be "or" not "and"; however, this is simply a minor point in a bill that I overall strongly oppose.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 25, 2009, 06:33:53 PM
I don't see a way that I'm going to ever support this bill unless it's made to be a voluntary program.

Although upon rereading the bill after it was passed by the Assembly, I noticed something I overlooked before:

The wording in Clause 10 seems to be slightly problematic:

Quote
10. If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, damages or disturbs the area by polluting, vandalising, and ruining the surroundings, they may be subject to a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.

According to a literal interpretation, a person would have to polute, vandalize, and ruin the surroundings in order to be fined.  The proper conjunction between "vandalising," and "ruining the surroundings" would be "or" not "and"; however, this is simply a minor point in a bill that I overall strongly oppose.
I move to amend the word "and" in Clause 10 to "or".


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 25, 2009, 07:55:14 PM
Obviously, Governor, any landowner can already open their lands to visitors "voluntarily". Such a bill would be a waste of bandwidth.

Are you saying that there is no tangible proposal you can make to moderate this bill to an acceptable compromise? Have you compared and considered the English version of the bill Peter linked? I admit to having some minor reservations about the bill, and am personally open to amendments to effect the practical application of the bill on landowners. However, given a choice between supporting the bill as is and opposing it I'm firmly in the former camp. I'm open to practical changes to limit the law somewhat. But if you are absolutely opposed on uncompromisable ideological grounds that private property is sacrosanct, then I fear a vote to override is unavoidable.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on August 26, 2009, 10:18:09 AM
I don't see a way that I'm going to ever support this bill unless it's made to be a voluntary program.

Although upon rereading the bill after it was passed by the Assembly, I noticed something I overlooked before:

The wording in Clause 10 seems to be slightly problematic:

Quote
10. If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, damages or disturbs the area by polluting, vandalising, and ruining the surroundings, they may be subject to a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.

According to a literal interpretation, a person would have to polute, vandalize, and ruin the surroundings in order to be fined.  The proper conjunction between "vandalising," and "ruining the surroundings" would be "or" not "and"; however, this is simply a minor point in a bill that I overall strongly oppose.
I move to amend the word "and" in Clause 10 to "or".
Any amendments would void an override attempt - it would no longer be the same bill.

I must admit that the reason I eeked, is that I do not really care one way or the other. I could vote to sustain the veto, I could vote to override. I am open to arguments either way.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 26, 2009, 12:48:48 PM
I don't see a way that I'm going to ever support this bill unless it's made to be a voluntary program.

Although upon rereading the bill after it was passed by the Assembly, I noticed something I overlooked before:

The wording in Clause 10 seems to be slightly problematic:

Quote
10. If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, damages or disturbs the area by polluting, vandalising, and ruining the surroundings, they may be subject to a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.

According to a literal interpretation, a person would have to polute, vandalize, and ruin the surroundings in order to be fined.  The proper conjunction between "vandalising," and "ruining the surroundings" would be "or" not "and"; however, this is simply a minor point in a bill that I overall strongly oppose.
I move to amend the word "and" in Clause 10 to "or".
Any amendments would void an override attempt - it would no longer be the same bill.

I must admit that the reason I eeked, is that I do not really care one way or the other. I could vote to sustain the veto, I could vote to override. I am open to arguments either way.

Thank you for noting that Peter, but upon consideration I still so move for two reasons: First, the Gov is right and this is a necessary change to a drafting error that escaped our initial review; secondly, I think additional time for debate and constructive input from the Governor is appropriate under the circumstances.

As I said before, I too have some reservations about the bill and am open to tangible suggestions to limit its impact on property owners. I'm simply not moved by the argument that property rights = sacred, and without a more coherent practical argument against the bill I don't plan to now oppose it simply because the Governor does.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 26, 2009, 04:42:08 PM
Make it a regional program.  Include incentives that would encourage people to enlist in such a program.  If a person does not want people on his/her land, he (as the owner of that land) has the right to deny them access.  It's the way I feel, and I don't see any way of changing this bill that will convince me otherwise.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 27, 2009, 11:31:58 PM
Alright, I know that nobody here really wants to let this come to a veto override, and I have been talking with Assemblyman Badger to figure out someway to come to an agreement.  I had said that I would support a voluntary program, but Badger pointed out that anybody can already open up their land so a voluntary program is pretty much pointless.

I was getting ready to draft my legislative solution when it hit me: Provide an opt-out option.  That way people don't have to go out of their way to sign up for the program, but they're also not forced into participating.

So here's what I've come up with. It may be a little rough in some places, but feel free to play around with it - and I think we can come to an agreement on this:

Mideast Freedom to Roam Bill
1. Anyone shall have the right to access, use, and pass through privately owned land in the Mideast Region except for land that falls under subsections 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9. Such as beaches, forests, and fields, as long as they do not damage or disturb the area in any way.   
2. It shall be legal to camp on private land for a maximum of 48 hours, as long as campers do not in any form damage or disturb the area, and leave the place in the same condition as they found it.
3. Activities that require usage of the area's resources, such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking, may not be practiced without the landowner's clear consent.   
4. The direct radiuses of 250 m around residential buildings are considered gardens and yards, and are therefore excluded from this bill.
5. Privately owned land that does not exceed the size of 400 acres is excluded from this bill. 
6. Nature reserves and other areas with delicate and sensitive ecosystems are excluded from this bill.
7. Fields where crops are being grown are excluded from this bill.
8. Areas where young animals are reared are excluded from this bill.
9. Any land owner can choose to exclude his land from being made accessible to the public by notifying the Mideast Department of Natural Resources. In order for a land owner to close his land to the public, some form of clear and legible signage must be posted on said property.
 10. During hunts, landowners have the right to dismiss visitors from the hunting ground.
11. If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, damages or disturbs the area by polluting, vandalising, or ruining the surroundings, they may be subject to a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.   
12. If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, chooses to illegally engage in activities such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking may be subject for a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.
13. If a landowner, without reason, tries to dismiss or chase away people from his or her land, he or she may be subject for a fine of up to $250.
14. (a) Owners of private property covered by this law may close their land from Freedom to Roam; however, written notice of the beginning and end dates of any closure period must be received in writing by the local police authority at least 24 hours before any signage or other notice of closure is posted on the property.
(b) Posting public notice. All public posting, notice or signage of property closure must include the beginning and end dates of said closure legibly written.
(c) Violation of these provisions is punishable by up to a $250 fine on a first offense. For any repeat violation within five years of a prior conviction  is punishable by up to a $500 fine and/or 30 days incarceration.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on August 27, 2009, 11:59:33 PM
I thought I mentioned that, as something similar to "Do Not Call." You could also provide incentives for those who choose to remain on the program, such as a tax exemption per group that resides on their land per year up to $X.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 28, 2009, 12:34:24 AM
I thought I mentioned that, as something similar to "Do Not Call." You could also provide incentives for those who choose to remain on the program, such as a tax exemption per group that resides on their land per year up to $X.

I was thinking that too.  But I'll leave that up to the Assembly.  I did my job of getting it to an acceptable piece that I could sign into law.  If they want to fiddle with it more, that's what they're elected for.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on August 28, 2009, 04:15:51 AM
The various amendment proposals that have been suggested, I do not find to be palatable.

*Inks' proposal to make this voluntary might as well be no bill at all. Why ever should we pass a bill to say that something that is already voluntary, is in fat ... voluntary. Its called redundant law.

*Purple State's proposal of incentivising opening of land is not acceptable in my view. Creating a bureaucracy to administer this, and then either tax breaks or hand-outs to large landowners is just ridiculous in my opinion. People with large amounts of land tend to have large amounts of money too. Given our economic times, if we are going to give handouts, lets give them to working families that actually need them.

I don't want this issue to drag on as there are other things we could consider. If there is no movement towards something I might be able to get on board with, I'm going to come down on one side of this issue in 24 hours.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on August 28, 2009, 06:01:28 AM
Our Governor's proposal isn't exactly to switch to a voluntary scheme.

You have to voluntarily REFUSE to open your land. We all know that many people won't bother to call the Department of Natural Resources to make clear that they refuse.

The problem is the same (sorry for the comparison) with the fate of your organs after your death. In some countries, you have to say explicitly that you authorize surgeons to pick your organs; in other countries, you have to refuse explicitly, because the law is the other way round.

You rightly points to the need not to spend more on this. That's why fiscal incentives are, indeed, not acceptable.

But, in the case of our Governor's proposal, the Department of Natural Resources already exists: just taking the explicit refusals into account in a register, linked with the land registry office, doesn't cost anything.

Our Governor shows his openness and has tried to do all he can in the limits of a big principle: private property, which is written in our law and in Atlasia's constitution.

But I'm just a citizen of the MidEast region giving you his opinion. I let you proceed.
Thanks for your attention.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 28, 2009, 03:51:06 PM
The various amendment proposals that have been suggested, I do not find to be palatable.

*Inks' proposal to make this voluntary might as well be no bill at all. Why ever should we pass a bill to say that something that is already voluntary, is in fat ... voluntary. Its called redundant law.

*Purple State's proposal of incentivising opening of land is not acceptable in my view. Creating a bureaucracy to administer this, and then either tax breaks or hand-outs to large landowners is just ridiculous in my opinion. People with large amounts of land tend to have large amounts of money too. Given our economic times, if we are going to give handouts, lets give them to working families that actually need them.

I don't want this issue to drag on as there are other things we could consider. If there is no movement towards something I might be able to get on board with, I'm going to come down on one side of this issue in 24 hours.
<sigh> As much as I genuinely appreciate the Governor's attempt to find middle ground, I have to agree with Peter. The only real difference between this and the previous toothless proposal to make it completely voluntary is the requirement the land owner file something with the Mideast DNR. I suspect real estate agents and attorneys would add the DNR opt out forms along with standard closing boilerplate any purchase of land exceeding 400 acres. The end result would be nearly the same: The "freedom to roam" becomes discretionary at the option of the landowner same as today, with the rare exception of a landowner that forgot to file a form with the DNR.

I likewise concur with Peter regarding the offer of financial incentives for large landowner being a misplaced priority, particularly with the regional budget facing an $80 billion deficit.

I renew my motion to amend the word "and" to "or" in Clause 10 of the original bill. I realize this creates a new bill and we'll have to go through the additional step of passing this as new legislation, only to presumably be vetoed again and then vote on a veto override, but Inks is right on this point. This was a drafting error we in the Assembly missed the first time around and it needs changed to avoid absurd results.

Second?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on August 30, 2009, 08:29:35 AM
Given full consideration, I will not vote to override a veto on this issue.

Does Badger/SC still wish to proceed to amend the bill, have it vetoed, and then have the override fail?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on August 30, 2009, 10:07:09 AM
Although I would have wished for the veto to be overridden, I think it's time to move on to other questions. I feel strongly for this bill, but we've been discussing it for almost half this term now, and I think it might be time to give way for other proposals.

I might bring this up again some other time, as I believe the citizens of the Mideast would benefit greatly from a Freedom to Roam law, but as it is now, there are other questions that need to be discussed and debated, and since my proposal fails to attract support from the Governor, the Speaker, and much of the population of this region, I see no reason to occupy the Assembly with this for any more weeks.

     


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 31, 2009, 07:26:49 AM
Although I would have wished for the veto to be overridden, I think it's time to move on to other questions. I feel strongly for this bill, but we've been discussing it for almost half this term now, and I think it might be time to give way for other proposals.

I might bring this up again some other time, as I believe the citizens of the Mideast would benefit greatly from a Freedom to Roam law, but as it is now, there are other questions that need to be discussed and debated, and since my proposal fails to attract support from the Governor, the Speaker, and much of the population of this region, I see no reason to occupy the Assembly with this for any more weeks.
     
In light of Assemblyman Sweedish Cheese's position, I withdraw the amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 31, 2009, 06:00:21 PM
The Mideast Equal Rights Under the Law for All Act.

"All Mideastern statutes and regulations which prohibit discrimination or disparate treatment under the law on the basis of, or guarantee legal rights or privileges regardless of, a subject's race, national origin, religion, or gender, shall henceforth be amended to include "sexual orientation" as a similarly illegal basis of discrimination or denial of legal rights."

The aim of this proposal is simple: That anywhere Mideastern law currently prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, religion, etc., that the law likewise prohibit such discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

Other than possible culture war arguments against granting gays and lesbians "special rights", I anticipate some might initially object to this law as redundant with other state and federal statutes. I respectfully disagree.

Article V, Paragraphs 21 and 22 of the Mideast Constitution prohibit denial of the right to vote, run for office, or other specific rights under the Mideast Bill of Rights on the basis of "sexuality". But these guaranteed rights are quite specific and restricted. For example, there is no guaranteed constitutional right to employment. Thus, the Mideast further banned employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation:
https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Gay_Discrimination_in_the_Workplace_Ban_Statute
These are excellent starts, but presently there are numerous areas of Mideastern law where discrimination is still not prohibited on the basis of sexual orientation--such as housing, and education--even though such discrimination is rightly prohibited on the basis of race, gender, etc.

Second, I realize that federal Atlasian law largely prohibits discrimination in most arenas based on sexual orientation. https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Equal_Rights_Act_of_2007
But--and this is key--because there is a federal cause of action for discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation does not mean for an instant that Mideastern law should not ban such discrimination as well.

Even though the 1965 Civil Rights Law banned discrimination in public facilities and employment on the basis of race, religion, and national origin, every single state in the country also has similar anti-discrimination statutes on its books, and in many states were only passed after 1965. These state statues are used in conjunction with federal laws every day by people who have been discriminated against. There are variations between state and federal laws on statute of limitations, causes of action, damages, etc. A state court action can be filed in any county where the defendant resides or where the discrimination tool place; federal courthouses are limited to only the 3 or 4 largest cities in a state. For all of these reasons, it is imperative that Mideastern citizens who have been discriminated against have access to our regional court system for redress under the law.

Very simply, if discrimination is prohibited anywhere by Mideastern law on the basis of race, national origin, religion, or gender, then the law should likewise prohibit such discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Vepres on August 31, 2009, 07:30:40 PM
Badger, I can't wait for the day you enter the national Senate, great work here. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Alexander Hamilton on August 31, 2009, 07:32:40 PM
Run, Badger!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on August 31, 2009, 10:27:03 PM
Ahhh, the beauty of a regional Assembly. Both Badger and Swedish Cheese (and Peter, of course) have been great additions to the Mideast Assembly. Their outside-the-box initiatives and clearly developed and thought out ideas really are a pleasure to see.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on August 31, 2009, 10:31:15 PM
Badger, this legislation is simply brilliant.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 01, 2009, 02:58:05 AM

:)



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on September 01, 2009, 03:03:55 AM
Very good work!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 01, 2009, 05:11:00 PM
Wow!  Thanks for all the love guys. I'm feelin' you. Now let's see if I can actually get this bill passed. ;-)

And hopefully soon, as the Assembly session is half over and I have a tenative list more bills I'd like to submit.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 01, 2009, 07:10:37 PM
Badger with this and your acceptance of my dog bill I think you have won my vote for reelection.  Saving yourself for the debacle of that smoking bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on September 01, 2009, 08:17:36 PM
I wonder whether the principle could be stretched further - to ban discrimination on grounds of class, for example. No objections t' actual bill though.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 02, 2009, 10:17:21 AM
Badger with this and your acceptance of my dog bill I think you have won my vote for reelection.  Saving yourself for the debacle of that smoking bill.
Very much obliged, Hap!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 02, 2009, 12:36:40 PM
Badger, I can't wait for the day you enter the national Senate, great work here. :)


Move to the Mideast and maybe I will. ;-)

(Just kidding of course--I greatly dislike strategic registration. But thanks for the encouragement!)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 02, 2009, 12:42:54 PM
The Mideast Equal Rights Under the Law for All Act.

"All Mideastern statutes and regulations which prohibit discrimination or disparate treatment under the law on the basis of, or guarantee legal rights or privileges regardless of, a subject's race, national origin, religion, or gender, shall henceforth be amended to include "sexual orientation" as a similarly illegal basis of discrimination or denial of legal rights."
The above bill is on the table.

I support the bil, but I would note the following things - the equal protection clause arguably provides a sturdy defense against all discrimination by government on grounds of sexual orientation. Obviously this does not impede private actors, and so I am willing to support this bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 02, 2009, 12:54:54 PM
The Mideast Equal Rights Under the Law for All Act.

"All Mideastern statutes and regulations which prohibit discrimination or disparate treatment under the law on the basis of, or guarantee legal rights or privileges regardless of, a subject's race, national origin, religion, or gender, shall henceforth be amended to include "sexual orientation" as a similarly illegal basis of discrimination or denial of legal rights."
The above bill is on the table.

I support the bil, but I would note the following things - the equal protection clause arguably provides a sturdy defense against all discrimination by government on grounds of sexual orientation. Obviously this does not impede private actors, and so I am willing to support this bill.
As Swedish Cheese  has also publically declared his support for the bill, Mr. Speaker, may the Chair please consider calling for a vote at this time?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 02, 2009, 12:59:51 PM
May I take this as no objeciton to proceeding to vote?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 02, 2009, 01:09:59 PM

Yes


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 02, 2009, 01:14:02 PM
The vote is on the bill that I quoted above. Please vote now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 02, 2009, 01:18:27 PM
The Mideast Equal Rights Under the Law for All Act.

"All Mideastern statutes and regulations which prohibit discrimination or disparate treatment under the law on the basis of, or guarantee legal rights or privileges regardless of, a subject's race, national origin, religion, or gender, shall henceforth be amended to include "sexual orientation" as a similarly illegal basis of discrimination or denial of legal rights."

  Aye



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 02, 2009, 01:22:52 PM
Aye

I introduce the following:
Mideast Sexual Health Bill
For the purposes of this statute:

   1. Public Medical Facility means any medical or family planning centre under the direct control of the Regional government or a private medical or family planning centre that draws more than one-tenth of its funding from Regional funds.
   2. Non-Public Medical Facility means any medical or family planning centre not included in Clause 1.

Therefore,

   1. All Public medical facilities are hereby required to provide a reasonable amount of barrier contraception free of charge to any person who requests it.
   2. Any private facility covered under clause one that fails to comply shall have its Regional funding reduced to a point where it comprises exactly 10% of the facility's funding.
   3. Any non-Public medical facilities, and private facilities covered under clause one, that provide barrier contraception free of charge to persons may reclaim their costs subject to such rules and regulations as the Mideast Department of the Treasury shall deem necessary.
   4.  Each person who receives barrier contraception under the terms of this statute will be provided with a leaflet produced by the Mideast Department of Health explaining how to use the contraception, the dangers of Sexually Transmitted Diseases, the potential problems associated with unwanted pregnancies and any other facts that the Department of Health finds relevant.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 02, 2009, 01:37:36 PM
I oppose the bill that Peter proposed, and urge the Governor to veto it in the event that it passes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 02, 2009, 01:50:37 PM
The vote is on the bill that I quoted above. Please vote now.
Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 02, 2009, 01:54:10 PM
The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it.
The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his signature or veto.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on September 02, 2009, 03:18:06 PM
As a side note (albeit slightly late), perhaps gender expression could be protected as well.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 02, 2009, 05:33:57 PM
As a private citizen, I'd like to recommend that the Mideast repeal its current electoral system in favor of STV.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on September 02, 2009, 06:03:15 PM
As a private citizen, I'd like to recommend that the Mideast repeal its current electoral system in favor of STV.

Why? This has worked well and fairly for the entirety of its existence thus far.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 02, 2009, 07:01:20 PM
As a private citizen, I'd like to recommend that the Mideast repeal its current electoral system in favor of STV.

Why? This has worked well and fairly for the entirety of its existence thus far.

This is only because there have been very few contested elections. What advantages does the current system have over STV?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 02, 2009, 08:26:12 PM
I oppose the bill that Peter proposed, and urge the Governor to veto it in the event that it passes.
Goodness me, why?

I support the bill. There are few better ways to reduce abortions than reducing unintended pregnancies. Not to mention STDs.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 03, 2009, 03:59:45 AM
I oppose the bill that Peter proposed, and urge the Governor to veto it in the event that it passes.

I'm very intrested to hear your argument as to why this is so horrible?

I will most likely support this bill. As I see it, the most effective way we can bring down unwanted pregnacies and sexual diseases are to make people use condoms and other barrier contraception. If we can bring down the number of unwanted pregnancies, we will also bring down the number of abortions, which I think is vital as I do not think highly of abortion. One of the biggest part to make people, especially teens and young adults, to use protection is to make it more available. Therefore I'm very positive to this legislations. I'd very much like to hear the opposition's point of view before I completely make up my mind though.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on September 03, 2009, 04:06:21 AM
I don't see any reason to oppose the sexual health bill, unless you think that it's encouraging "immoral behavior".

I fully support the proposal.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on September 03, 2009, 04:06:51 AM
As a citizen, I respectfully disagree with the proposal called "Mideast Sexual Health Bill".

- First of all, I don't think public money should be used to subsidize items that are for private and personal use.
What is more, at a time of economic crisis and budgetary constraints, even on other health spendings.
Of course, if this proposal is voted, there will be a windfall or bonanza effect for many people who can afford these devices, but who will go to public medical facilities to get free devices. And, based on the necessary privacy of the delivery, it would be of course irrealistic to check personal financiel resources...

And if you begin to subsidize one type of items, you may soon have demands for subsidizing anything else in the same category or other "health" devices.
Furthermore, a "reasonable" amount isn't precise enough to prevent this new spending to grow out of control.

- Following this argument, I may add that this proposal entails that the Regional Government favors some types of contraception over other ones.
This proposal would favor uses of costlier means of contraception, over means of contraception that don't cost anything.

- Secondly, there is a limit to the public intervention in private matters. You want to avoid unwanted pregnancies and abortions, which is a good idea.
But you must first rely on information, education and personal responsibility. A government should first view its citizens as adults and take measures only when the problem is obviously out of control and when personal responsibility isn't enough to tackle it. I don't think this is the case for the moment.

You may argue that this a public health problem, but eating badly is a far bigger public health problem and the government doesn't plan to subsidize massively "safe" food (and wouldn't have the financial resources to do it).

- Finally, I ask a question about the timeliness of this proposal, just before the election, whereas our Region is plagued with foreclosures, budgetary constraints with less tax revenues and, furthermore, high unemployment, , as Sweedish Cheese underlined it accurately in his candidacy speech.

One may wonder whether it is a real priority on the Assembly's agenda or if it is a way of intervening in the campaign ?

I'm sorry to take again the liberty of interrupting the Assembly's debates, but some questions have to be asked and some arguments have to be put forward.

Thanks for your attention.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on September 03, 2009, 04:08:52 AM
I don't see any reason to oppose the sexual health bill, unless you think that it's encouraging "immoral behavior".

I fully support the proposal.

OK, big bad fab just proved me wrong ;)

Still, I think it's a logical step towards reducing sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancy....and that should have priority over any ideological disputes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 03, 2009, 06:46:16 AM
Glad to see you taking part in the debate BBF.

Quote
Of course, if this proposal is voted, there will be a windfall or bonanza effect for many people who can afford these devices, but who will go to public medical facilities to get free devices. And, based on the necessary privacy of the delivery, it would be of course irrealistic to check personal financiel resources.

Here in Sweden you can get free condoms in so called youth clinics if you're under the age of 24 or 25 (Can't recall which one). As teens and young adults are the group where sexual transmitted diseases as well as unwanted pregnancies are the biggest problem, and since teens and college students usually doesn't have a lot of money, maybe setting an age limit for how old you are allowed to be to get acess to the free barrier contraception would be an acceptable compromise to ease your worries on this?

Quote
And if you begin to subsidize one type of items, you may soon have demands for subsidizing anything else in the same category or other "health" devices. 

Funny you'd say that, I was actually thinking about proposing a bill that would require Medical Facilities to give people free skin lotion. :P

Quote
Following this argument, I may add that this proposal entails that the Regional Government favors some types of contraception over other ones.
This proposal would favor uses of costlier means of contraception, over means of contraception that don't cost anything.

I can actually think of one form of contraception that's more affective than condoms to prevent both sexual diseases and pregnancy that is also free, but unfortunatley lesbian sex can only be used by half the population. And of that half only around 5-10 % are willing to use the method. Gay sex is very effective too against pregnancies, not so much against sexual diseases unfortuantley.

Quote
- Secondly, there is a limit to the public intervention in private matters. You want to avoid unwanted pregnancies and abortions, which is a good idea.
But you must first rely on information, education and personal responsibility. A government should first view its citizens as adults and take measures only when the problem is obviously out of control and when personal responsibility isn't enough to tackle it. I don't think this is the case for the moment.

Fair enough, but it's not like we're forcing people to use a special sort of contraception over another. They can still rely on abstinance if they want, and they can still choose to have sex without any protection and hope for the best. We will just make it easier for people to get hold of protection if they want to use it.

Quote
- Finally, I ask a question about the timeliness of this proposal, just before the election, whereas our Region is plagued with foreclosures, budgetary constraints with less tax revenues and, furthermore, high unemployment, , as Sweedish Cheese underlined it accurately in his candidacy speech.

This is why I said I am not 100 % behind the bill yet, and this was the main argument I was counting on people apposed to the bill would bring forward. It is true that we right now is in need of cutting unnecessary spending not adding more to avoid creating an even bigger deficit than we already have.

However the argument that I will make is that we will end up paying either way. As of the passing of the Atlasian National Healthcare Bill, when teens get sexual transmitted diseases because not using condoms,  our tax money will end up financing their treatment. Especially when it comes to certain heinous diseases like HIV, that means we will have to pay for expensive medicine for the rest of that persons life.

So if we can decrease the number of sexual diseases with this proposal, that might actually help us save money.

Quote
I'm sorry to take again the liberty of interrupting the Assembly's debates, but some questions have to be asked and some arguments have to be put forward.

Well I invited you to take active part here in my speech, and I am happy to hear your views on the subject. Only when we see both sides of a coin does we know which way to best attack it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 03, 2009, 08:08:40 AM
Stockholm Cheddar spoke my thoughts quite well. A few additional thoughts:

Peter's choice of subsidized barrier birth control is rationally related to reasonable societal goals and perfectly acceptable for regional government to promote as opposed to other methods. While other methods such as the pill combat unintended pregnancies, only barrier protection such as condoms prevents the spread of STDs. Also, other more sophisticated methods such as the pill require more oversight/monitoring (and thus time and money) from health care staff.

SC correctly pointed out the considerable potential health care savings by proactively reducing the spread of STDs. Think also about the potential savings of the welfare and health care system by reducing the number of unintended pregnancies. A disproportionate number of unintended pregnancies, especially among teenagers, result in increased costs to social services like AFDC, Head Start, SCHIP and Medicaid. A proactive reduction in such unintended teen pregnancies can save the taxpayers FAR more than the costs of free condoms and sponges. As the old saying goes: "An ounce of prevention......

I join Swede's crusade: "Skin lotion for all!" ;-)

All this said, Fab, I think its important for Mideast voters to add their two cents to the Assembly's debate and strongly encourage you continue speaking your mind.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 03, 2009, 11:07:09 AM
I oppose the bill that Peter proposed, and urge the Governor to veto it in the event that it passes.

I'm very intrested to hear your argument as to why this is so horrible?

I will most likely support this bill. As I see it, the most effective way we can bring down unwanted pregnacies and sexual diseases are to make people use condoms and other barrier contraception. If we can bring down the number of unwanted pregnancies, we will also bring down the number of abortions, which I think is vital as I do not think highly of abortion. One of the biggest part to make people, especially teens and young adults, to use protection is to make it more available. Therefore I'm very positive to this legislations. I'd very much like to hear the opposition's point of view before I completely make up my mind though.


I oppose this because I don't want to pay for somebody else's birth control--let's face it, nothing is really "free". If someone wants to get birth control, they ought to PAY for it, and not expect to get it for "free" at the taxpayer's expense. Not to mention that, as Franzl said, it does encourage immoral behavior.

By the way, what does Peter consider a "reasonable" amount of contraception?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on September 03, 2009, 11:15:39 AM
The problem is that most unwanted pregnancies happen among those who cannot often afford means of contraception. Education initiatives are nice, but if they don't have the money to practice safe-sex, no amount of knowledge will matter.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 03, 2009, 02:44:01 PM
The bill has been signed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 03, 2009, 03:31:45 PM
The bill longer term will, I suspect, pay for itself. If there is a wide availability of barrier contraception, this will decrease the number of unwanted pregnancies. If this is the case, there is a lower number of abortions, thus reducing any health complications from an abortion, thus reducing the exposure of the taxpayer to pay to treat these patients.

It also will hopefully decrease the number of STD infections, thus again reducing the exposure of the taxpayer to these patients. Most of all, I think that the very people this bill will protect are the future of the Mideast economy - it will stop the hard-working Atlasians of tomorrow from contracting an illness that inhibits their ability to work and thus grow the economy.

I originally considered an age cap when I wrote this bill (it was in fact written some years ago and lied dormant on my wiki page). On balance, I do not like to discriminate against individuals based on age, and I think the probability is that there will be few people over a certain age who would use the service, thus meaning the age cap would not save much money.

My intent in the "reasonable" amount of contraception was to stop a joker going into a clinic and asking for 100000 condoms. Not sensible, and a waste of resources. As far as I am concerned, it is the medical professionals judgement as to what is reasonable in the case before them. I trust doctors, nurses and all hard working public servants to make these decisions.

My bill would ultimately open free contraception to teenagers who at the moment would probably not have sufficient independent financial means to buy their own, and certainly would not ask their parents for it. This is a critical age group for the future of the economy and we must do everything in our power to protect it.

- Finally, I ask a question about the timeliness of this proposal, just before the election, whereas our Region is plagued with foreclosures, budgetary constraints with less tax revenues and, furthermore, high unemployment, , as Sweedish Cheese underlined it accurately in his candidacy speech.

One may wonder whether it is a real priority on the Assembly's agenda or if it is a way of intervening in the campaign ?
Whilst you are welcome to your opinions and may voice them as you please, I must take great exception to this comment. I have always proposed bills that I feel are in the best interests of whomever my constituents were at the time - I do not propose bills for the purposes of my own electability (not that I am a candidate for election at any rate).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 03, 2009, 03:39:24 PM
(not that I am a candidate for election at any rate).
You're not running for re-election to the Assembly? >:-(


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 03, 2009, 04:13:30 PM
(not that I am a candidate for election at any rate).
You're not running for re-election to the Assembly? >:-(

He hasn't announced he is yet. So technically no he isn't. That doesn't mean he won't decide to run before the election.

And Peter is one of this country's most experienced and talanted politicians. He's one of the authors of the current constitution. So it might be he has decided he wants to do something else for a while than the Assembly and don't seek re-election.

I think his point is mainly though that the soon forth-coming election is not effecting his actions in the Assembly, so you probably won't have to worry.

:)

Anyway, it seems most of the Assemblymen share the same oppinion on this legislation.   


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 03, 2009, 05:32:39 PM
Mr. Speaker, as there's clearly unanimity in the Assembly on this measure, may the matter be called for a vote please?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on September 04, 2009, 02:56:38 AM
Sorry, I was a bit busy for having answered immediately to your arguments.
As you want to call for a vote on the matter, I won't be long.

In a nutshell, I always think we should first (even if not only) rely on personal and individual responsibility and support it to "emerge" and prevail.
It's the only long term solution.

In France, when the HIV began to be less talked about because of flat statistics and of less media covering, the use of condoms declined and other campaigns on personal responsibility had to be revived by the health administration and by the gay associations.
Whereas condoms are available at very low prices (and even free in some medical cases), the use of them just declined, and not especially among poor people: they were just viewed as "boring", especially among upper classes...

So, many good theoretical aims and principles are inaccurate in real life.

Anyways, I let our Assemblymen deliberate and vote quietly.

BTW, Peter, there was no personal offence in my final question. We are in a game and, when one wants to play "seriously" in this game, as we are in an electoral period, one has to ask ;).
It's a bit difficult sometimes to see differences between Atlasians hwo post only for fun, Atlasians who are entirely serious, Atlasians who say they play but push very serious bills, Atlasians who are never in the same logic, etc.
That's why it's better to make things clear.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 04, 2009, 05:19:09 PM
There has been no substantive debate in 24 hours. A vote is hereby opened.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 04, 2009, 06:12:21 PM
As a private citizen, I'd like to recommend that the Mideast repeal its current electoral system in favor of STV.

Why? This has worked well and fairly for the entirety of its existence thus far.

This is only because there have been very few contested elections. What advantages does the current system have over STV?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on September 04, 2009, 06:22:29 PM
As a private citizen, I'd like to recommend that the Mideast repeal its current electoral system in favor of STV.

Why? This has worked well and fairly for the entirety of its existence thus far.

This is only because there have been very few contested elections. What advantages does the current system have over STV?

As you said a minute ago, why fix a template that isn't broken? Not to mention, the current system is easier than STV. So I am not inclined to implement a more time-consuming, confusing system when the current one works just fine.

What are the advantages of STV over this?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 04, 2009, 06:42:57 PM
Here you are:

The system the Mideast uses is horrible. I can't think of any arguments in favor of it.

Does the fact that you don't like it count in it's favour ;D

No. :P

But, for real. It is perfectly possible for three candidates to be elected when all are preferenced in the bottom three by a majority. For instance, let's take the example of the 1948 Irish election (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_general_election,_1948), under this system (with three candidates to be elected). For the purpose of this example, let's assume that all voters from all parties rank their three candidates in the same order, and that all the other parties rank Fianna Fáil last (not unreasonable, IMO).

The first count:

Fianna Fáil #1: 41.9
Fine Gael #1: 19.8
Clann na Poblachta #1: 13.3
Labour #1: 11.3
Clann na Talmhan #1: 5.5
National Labour #1: 2.6
Others: 0

Fianna Fáil #1 elected.

The second count:

Fianna Fáil #1: n/a
Fianna Fáil #2: 41.9
Fine Gael #1: 39.6
Clann na Poblachta #1: 26.6
Labour #1: 22.6
Fine Gael #2: 19.8
Clann na Poblachta #2: 13.3
Labour #2: 11.3
Clann na Talmhan #1: 11
Clann na Talmhan #2: 5.5
National Labour #1: 5.2
National Labour #2: 2.6
Others: 0

Fianna Fáil #2 elected.

The third count:

Fianna Fáil #1: n/a
Fianna Fáil #2: n/a
Fine Gael #1: 59.4
Fianna Fáil #3: 41.9
Clann na Poblachta #1: 39.9
Fine Gael #2: 39.6
Labour #1: 33.9
Clann na Poblachta #2: 26.6
Labour #2: 22.6
Fine Gael #3: 19.8
Clann na Talmhan #1: 16.5
Clann na Poblachta #3: 13.3
Labour #3: 11.3
Clann na Talmhan #2: 11
National Labour #1: 7.8
Clann na Talmhan #3: 5.5
National Labour #2: 5.2
National Labour #3: 2.6

Fine Gael #1 is elected.

Final Composition: Fianna Fáil 2, Fine Gael 1

Thus, the Opposition, with 58.1% of the vote, gets 33.3% of the seats, and Fianna Fáil, last-preferenced by the majority, gets 66.7% of the seats. Theoretically, a party could win all three seats with any number of votes, provided they had thrice as many as the second-place party.

I rest my case.

The example is somewhat winded, but STV would never do something that horrible.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 05, 2009, 09:25:12 AM
There has been no substantive debate in 24 hours. A vote is hereby opened.

Oh I totally missed this due to the STV debating.

  Aye



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on September 05, 2009, 11:06:44 PM
Here you are:


The example is somewhat winded, but STV would never do something that horrible.

How common would such an occurrence be? It seems as though it becomes incredibly unlikely with smaller numbers of votes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 06, 2009, 01:43:41 AM
Here you are:


The example is somewhat winded, but STV would never do something that horrible.

How common would such an occurrence be? It seems as though it becomes incredibly unlikely with smaller numbers of votes.

It could quite easily be done with a unified slate of three candidates. This has not happened so far, but it's better not to take the chance of system abuse.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on September 06, 2009, 08:41:42 AM
Here you are:


The example is somewhat winded, but STV would never do something that horrible.

How common would such an occurrence be? It seems as though it becomes incredibly unlikely with smaller numbers of votes.

It could quite easily be done with a unified slate of three candidates. This has not happened so far, but it's better not to take the chance of system abuse.

It doesn't seem all that likely a situation in a setting so small and candidate, rather than party oriented. It seems like a lot to do to avoid a one in a million scenario.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 06, 2009, 10:56:54 AM
Here you are:


The example is somewhat winded, but STV would never do something that horrible.

How common would such an occurrence be? It seems as though it becomes incredibly unlikely with smaller numbers of votes.

It could quite easily be done with a unified slate of three candidates. This has not happened so far, but it's better not to take the chance of system abuse.

It doesn't seem all that likely a situation in a setting so small and candidate, rather than party oriented. It seems like a lot to do to avoid a one in a million scenario.

I don't think it's a one in a million scenario that a party runs a coordinated slate to capture more seats than it is entitled to.

At any rate, it's not a lot to do; changing the law would not be difficult.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 06, 2009, 06:39:05 PM
Hey guys, decided to move here.

Pacific region is mostly none moving and the Mideast here seems pretty fast and up to date.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 06, 2009, 07:36:38 PM
Hey guys, decided to move here.

Pacific region is mostly none moving and the Mideast here seems pretty fast and up to date.

Welcome to the region!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 06, 2009, 07:40:33 PM
Hey guys, decided to move here.

Pacific region is mostly none moving and the Mideast here seems pretty fast and up to date.

Welcome to the region!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 06, 2009, 08:34:23 PM
Hey guys, decided to move here.

Pacific region is mostly none moving and the Mideast here seems pretty fast and up to date.

Welcome to the region!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on September 07, 2009, 07:23:08 AM

This is, indeed, a very lively region, with interesting Assembly debates, experienced executive and legislative leaders and suspenseful elections (:)).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 08, 2009, 07:28:51 AM
There has been no substantive debate in 24 hours. A vote is hereby opened.

Oh I totally missed this due to the STV debating.

  Aye


AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 08, 2009, 12:48:41 PM
(Submitted for que in the Assembly's docket after resolution of Peter's birth control bill currently being voted on.)

The Mideast Dog Breed Equity Under the Law Act

1) All Mideast regional statutes and regulations which currently place additional legal restrictions, duties, penalties, or legal presumptions upon the keeper, owner or harborer of dogs based solely upon the breed of said dog, including but not limited to the breed of dogs known as "American Pit Bull Terriers", "Staffordshire Terriers", or "Pit Bulls", are hereby repealed.

2) Nothing in this act shall be construed to remove legal restrictions, duties, penalties, or legal presumptions upon the keeper, owner or harborer of any dog based on prior misconduct of that particular dog or owner.

The rational behind this law is straightforward: Current legal restrictions or requirements for a dog owner's control of their dog(s) based on the conduct or misbehavior of a dog are legitimate, but imposing such legal duties and restrictions on the owner of a perfectly well-behaved dog solely based on that dog's breed is both irrational and unfair.

In Ohio, by way of brief example, all dog owners are legally required to keep their dog(s) under reasonable control rather than running loose unsupervised throughout the community, and face a fine for a first violation, larger fines and potential (non-mandatory) 30 days jail for repeat convictions. Any dog that has menaced another person while running loose (e.g. chased and snapped at a person on the street without provocation, but did not successfully bite the person) is a "Dangerous Dog" subject to increased legal requirements of restraint and control and the owner may face up to 30 days jail (again, not mandatory) on a first offense. A dog that has killed or injured another person, or killed another dog, is a "Vicious Dog" subject to even more stringent restraint requirements, and owners must carry a liability policy of at least $100,000 on any such dog. A violation of such requirements, even without the dog causing death or serious injury, carries up to 6 months jail on a first offense and subsequent offenses are felonies.

By law, Pit Bulls are legally presumed "Vicious Dogs". Let me repeat that: ANY Pit Bull regardless of however docile and nonthreatening its temperament is presumed "Vicious". One can decide not to carry the liability insurance or adhere to the ultra-stringent restraint requirements, get charged with violating the law, then hope one can produce enough evidence of your pit bull's passive peaceful nature to overcome the legal presumption of viciousness. If not, you're screwed; if you do, you get to enjoy the stress and legal bills of taking your case to trial. And no, proof of a dog being a purebred pit bull is not necessary for conviction; basically if a reasonably qualified witness can testify the dog looks like a pit bull, a judge's or jury's guilty finding will probably be affirmed on appeal.

This law does NOT stand for the proposition that dogs should be allowed to run wild to cause havoc in their neighborhood. Rather it simply requires that ALL breeds of dog and their owners be treated equally under the law based on that particular dog or owner's behavior rather than based upon a dog's breed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 08, 2009, 01:12:18 PM
Thank you Badger.  Exactly the sort of bill I was hoping for.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 08, 2009, 01:23:59 PM
Mideast Sexual Health Bill
For the purposes of this statute:

   1. Public Medical Facility means any medical or family planning centre under the direct control of the Regional government or a private medical or family planning centre that draws more than one-tenth of its funding from Regional funds.
   2. Non-Public Medical Facility means any medical or family planning centre not included in Clause 1.

Therefore,

   1. All Public medical facilities are hereby required to provide a reasonable amount of barrier contraception free of charge to any person who requests it.
   2. Any private facility covered under clause one that fails to comply shall have its Regional funding reduced to a point where it comprises exactly 10% of the facility's funding.
   3. Any non-Public medical facilities, and private facilities covered under clause one, that provide barrier contraception free of charge to persons may reclaim their costs subject to such rules and regulations as the Mideast Department of the Treasury shall deem necessary.
   4.  Each person who receives barrier contraception under the terms of this statute will be provided with a leaflet produced by the Mideast Department of Health explaining how to use the contraception, the dangers of Sexually Transmitted Diseases, the potential problems associated with unwanted pregnancies and any other facts that the Department of Health finds relevant.
Aye. The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his signature or veto.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 08, 2009, 02:01:26 PM
I urge Governor Inks to veto the bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 08, 2009, 02:55:30 PM
Thank you Badger, very well said. I am completely behind this bill.

As the son of a dog breeder, who has spent my entire life surrounded by big packs of dogs (My parents, and sister currently own seven together) I am very much aware that most breeds are bred just for the reason to create certain characteristics that the owner find useful. Some dogs are natural hunters, others have basic instics telling them to herde sheep, some will be prone to guarding, and quite a few are suppose be cute and cuddly. This is true.

However the fact that certain breeds have certain talants, does not mean all dogs of that breed will have the same temper or personality. Because just like with humans, it is not our genes who makes us who we are, but the way we were raised and under which circumstances.

Therefore, a dog's behaviour, and wether it turns out to be aggressive or not, has much more to do with its owner than its breed.

I have seen supposebly cute and lovely cocker spaniels turn into horrefying monsters due to bad owners, and I have seen Pitbulls calm and sweet as sheep with the right owner.

Now the reason that some breeds seem to be more agressive has to do with traits. Some breeds have indeed been bred as potential attack dogs in war and battle. Others are meant to be dominating. That is the reason many unexperienced owners who are not well schooled in how to raise a dog, might have more trouble with a pitbull than a dachshund for say. That is however no just cause to punish the owners who very well know what they're doing, and who raise wonderful dogs of the brand pitbull, staffordshire terrier, and American pit bull terrier.

I don't think the goverment should get to decide which kinds of dogs get to live and which get to die. As Big Bad Fab said only a few pages ago:

Quote
But you must first rely on information, education and personal responsibility. A government should first view its citizens as adults and take measures only when the problem is obviously out of control and when personal responsibility isn't enough to tackle it. I don't think this is the case for the moment.




Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 08, 2009, 03:24:34 PM
Thank you Badger.  Exactly the sort of bill I was hoping for.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 10, 2009, 12:09:59 PM
The Mideast Dog Breed Equity Under the Law Act

1) All Mideast regional statutes and regulations which currently place additional legal restrictions, duties, penalties, or legal presumptions upon the keeper, owner or harborer of dogs based solely upon the breed of said dog, including but not limited to the breed of dogs known as "American Pit Bull Terriers", "Staffordshire Terriers", or "Pit Bulls", are hereby repealed.

2) Nothing in this act shall be construed to remove legal restrictions, duties, penalties, or legal presumptions upon the keeper, owner or harborer of any dog based on prior misconduct of that particular dog or owner.
Given that the Governor has not yet taken action on the Sexual Health Bill, this bill is brought to the floor for consideration, and if necessary debate will be suspended to take further action on the Sexual Health Bill.

I am undecided on the bill having no strong feelings either way. I will consider the debate and vote accordingly.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 10, 2009, 03:23:39 PM
I have little to add beyond what I and Swedish Cheese have already stated.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 10, 2009, 06:50:39 PM
The Mideast Dog Breed Equity Under the Law Act

1) All Mideast regional statutes and regulations which currently place additional legal restrictions, duties, penalties, or legal presumptions upon the keeper, owner or harborer of dogs based solely upon the breed of said dog, including but not limited to the breed of dogs known as "American Pit Bull Terriers", "Staffordshire Terriers", or "Pit Bulls", are hereby repealed.

2) Nothing in this act shall be construed to remove legal restrictions, duties, penalties, or legal presumptions upon the keeper, owner or harborer of any dog based on prior misconduct of that particular dog or owner.
Given that the Governor has not yet taken action on the Sexual Health Bill, this bill is brought to the floor for consideration, and if necessary debate will be suspended to take further action on the Sexual Health Bill.

I am undecided on the bill having no strong feelings either way. I will consider the debate and vote accordingly.



Sorry - I'm still trying to decide what I want to do with the Sexual Health Bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 11, 2009, 05:49:28 PM
I'll end by reiterating, think of the owner who has to post a $100k liability insurance policy for ANY Pit Bull Terrier, right down to a well-behaved and gentle pup, even if that dog may have some pit bull in it somewhere, because the alternative is prosecution and potential jail. It's not a minor inconvenience "feel good" issue by any means.

Mr. Speaker, as the bill has been posted for over 72 hours without negative comment, and the members of the Assembly have given their opinions, may we move for a vote on the bill?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 11, 2009, 05:52:40 PM
Indeed, a vote on the bill in my last post is hereby opened.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 11, 2009, 05:59:11 PM
Indeed, a vote on the bill in my last post is hereby opened.
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 11, 2009, 06:08:03 PM
I object to the vote currently taking place.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 11, 2009, 06:58:51 PM
I object to the vote currently taking place.
May I ask why, and on what grounds? If you have an objection to the bill please feel free to state it, as is your right as a Mideastern citizen.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 11, 2009, 07:01:01 PM

  Aye

And I second Badger's question to True Conservative. I was just about to ask the same thing. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 11, 2009, 07:01:41 PM

Constitutional grounds. The governor is allowed a week to sign or veto, and the bill has already passed on September the eighth.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 11, 2009, 07:02:34 PM

Constitutional grounds. The governor is allowed a week to sign or veto.

That is not what we're voting on


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 11, 2009, 07:05:02 PM

Constitutional grounds. The governor is allowed a week to sign or veto, and the bill has already passed on September the eighth.

Well they are having a vote on the dog breed bill I believe and I don't see why the Governor can not have more than one bill to sign at a time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 11, 2009, 07:07:07 PM
If so, I stand corrected. I did not realize that that was the bill being discussed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 13, 2009, 08:32:30 PM
Bump!

Where did people go? This term ends soon, we gotta get things moving. ;)

As soon as Peter has voted on the Dog Bill, I would propose that we have a vote wether to override Inks recent veto or not.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 13, 2009, 09:47:29 PM
After a few days of consideration, I have decided to veto the bill.  I just don't think we should be spending government money on it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 14, 2009, 07:30:15 AM
After a few days of consideration, I have decided to veto the bill.  I just don't think we should be spending government money on it.
<sigh> Very disappointing.

I move to override the grubenatorial veto of the Atlasian Public Health Bill (or whatever the official name of Peter's bill is).

There should be NO doubt whatsoever this bill will save government money.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 14, 2009, 09:33:47 AM
I thank Inks.LWC for making the right decision.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on September 14, 2009, 10:02:21 AM
Thank you Badger, very well said. I am completely behind this bill.

As the son of a dog breeder, who has spent my entire life surrounded by big packs of dogs (My parents, and sister currently own seven together) I am very much aware that most breeds are bred just for the reason to create certain characteristics that the owner find useful. Some dogs are natural hunters, others have basic instics telling them to herde sheep, some will be prone to guarding, and quite a few are suppose be cute and cuddly. This is true.

However the fact that certain breeds have certain talants, does not mean all dogs of that breed will have the same temper or personality. Because just like with humans, it is not our genes who makes us who we are, but the way we were raised and under which circumstances.

Therefore, a dog's behaviour, and wether it turns out to be aggressive or not, has much more to do with its owner than its breed.

I have seen supposebly cute and lovely cocker spaniels turn into horrefying monsters due to bad owners, and I have seen Pitbulls calm and sweet as sheep with the right owner.

Now the reason that some breeds seem to be more agressive has to do with traits. Some breeds have indeed been bred as potential attack dogs in war and battle. Others are meant to be dominating. That is the reason many unexperienced owners who are not well schooled in how to raise a dog, might have more trouble with a pitbull than a dachshund for say. That is however no just cause to punish the owners who very well know what they're doing, and who raise wonderful dogs of the brand pitbull, staffordshire terrier, and American pit bull terrier.

I don't think the goverment should get to decide which kinds of dogs get to live and which get to die. As Big Bad Fab said only a few pages ago:

Quote
But you must first rely on information, education and personal responsibility. A government should first view its citizens as adults and take measures only when the problem is obviously out of control and when personal responsibility isn't enough to tackle it. I don't think this is the case for the moment.



I haven't seen this before...
But I can't let our fine Swedish Cheese use my words on one proposal to justify another one.
Clever but not very "clean" quote ! ;) Tactics, tactics...

Yes, I think we must rely on personal responsibility first.

Sexual matters are, first, private matters. If you aren't "responsible" in your sexual behaviour (in the case referred to by the proposal), you may be the first victim yourself.
(of course, there is the case of rape, but I don't think the government will be able to control if the rapist is using condoms freely distributed by the official administration...).

In the case of your dogs proposal, if the dog breeder or the dog owner aren't responsible, it's ANOTHER people that may be a victim.

So, you CAN'T compare the 2.
The government is legitimate (even if not bound) to intervene when personal irresponsibility may harm OTHERS.
This is a big difference...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 14, 2009, 11:45:20 AM
On the Dog Bill, Abstain.

The bill is transmitted to the President for his signature or veto.

The motion to override the veto is recognised and is given a minimum of 24 hour debate time.

I feel the bill should pass for the many reasons that I proposed it - the bill will reduce STDs and unwanted pregnancies. I cannot believe that there are pro-life conservatives who would oppose reducing unwanted pregnancies. I did my very best to make the bill appealing to those conservatives by only including barrier contraception and not a drug that would kill an embryo however early in development. Many of you speak about "personal responsibility" - by choosing to use contraception the couple are exercising this responsibility - sadly there will still be many who do not avail themselves of this service.

From an economic perspective, ultimately it will save money for the economy of the Mideast Region due to more people able to work because not off work sick, and thus increase tax revenues, albeit marginally.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 15, 2009, 01:08:16 PM
There has been no further debate.

The vote is to override the veto of the Sexual Health Bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 15, 2009, 01:14:20 PM
There has been no further debate.

The vote is to override the veto of the Sexual Health Bill.

  Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 15, 2009, 02:11:56 PM
Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 15, 2009, 03:28:30 PM
Aye.

The motion carries and the veto of the Governor is overriden.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 17, 2009, 01:08:00 AM
On the Dog Bill, Abstain.

The bill is transmitted to the President for his signature or veto.


The Governor has been signed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 17, 2009, 09:06:34 AM
So is Peter not runnng for reelection as a WI like he normally does? lol


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 17, 2009, 03:10:11 PM
I'm afraid that of late I have become very discontented with Atlasia. Recently I have only tended to the forum to see to my duties as Speaker. I have no desire to continue that on a prolonged basis.

The use of what us older posters would call tomato-souping, and the newer posters, zombie voting, has become politically acceptable, and I think that destroys a lot of what made Atlasia a great place.

I now seek a peaceful retirement from Atlasia and the forum at large. Whilst I confess I will likely post next Spring in the run-up to the general election in the UK, that will probably be the height of my participation.

To my successors as Speaker and Assemblymen, I wish you all the luck in the world. The curtain has fallen, its time to get off the stage, and its exactly what I intend to do.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Alexander Hamilton on September 17, 2009, 03:11:34 PM
I'm afraid that of late I have become very discontented with Atlasia. Recently I have only tended to the forum to see to my duties as Speaker. I have no desire to continue that on a prolonged basis.

The use of what us older posters would call tomato-souping, and the newer posters, zombie voting, has become politically acceptable, and I think that destroys a lot of what made Atlasia a great place.

I now seek a peaceful retirement from Atlasia and the forum at large. Whilst I confess I will likely post next Spring in the run-up to the general election in the UK, that will probably be the height of my participation.

To my successors as Speaker and Assemblymen, I wish you all the luck in the world. The curtain has fallen, its time to get off the stage, and its exactly what I intend to do.

Wow. This is quite shocking. I'm sad to see you leave, but hopefully you don't stay gone too long. We appreciate your long history of Atlasian service.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 17, 2009, 03:12:02 PM
That is too bad. Not that you intend to step down--but that you intend to leave Atlasia and the forum completely.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 17, 2009, 03:24:30 PM
I'm afraid that of late I have become very discontented with Atlasia. Recently I have only tended to the forum to see to my duties as Speaker. I have no desire to continue that on a prolonged basis.

The use of what us older posters would call tomato-souping, and the newer posters, zombie voting, has become politically acceptable, and I think that destroys a lot of what made Atlasia a great place.

I now seek a peaceful retirement from Atlasia and the forum at large. Whilst I confess I will likely post next Spring in the run-up to the general election in the UK, that will probably be the height of my participation.

To my successors as Speaker and Assemblymen, I wish you all the luck in the world. The curtain has fallen, its time to get off the stage, and its exactly what I intend to do.

Really sad to hear that you'll be leaving the forum as a whole - I'd like to see you stay in Atlasia, but you leaving the forum is just sad to hear.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Alexander Hamilton on September 17, 2009, 03:27:54 PM
Our first Atlasian gone..... :'(


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 17, 2009, 03:41:09 PM
This will be a great loss to Atlasia, and especially this region.

It has been great working with you in the Assembly, and I have learned a lot just by watching you. I wish you the best of luck, and hope that sometime in the future you'll make a come back, to the forum and to Atlasia.

 

 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 17, 2009, 03:59:36 PM
This will be a great loss to Atlasia, and especially this region.

It has been great working with you in the Assembly, and I have learned a lot just by watching you. I wish you the best of luck, and hope that sometime in the future you'll make a come back, to the forum and to Atlasia.

I couldn't put it better. It's been a real pleasure working with you and I hope you'll return before long.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on September 17, 2009, 04:42:21 PM
The election would have been far greater with you.
The Assmebly and the Mideast are losing a great member, a great memory and a great contributor.
So sad...
But don't leave entirely the forum, please...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 17, 2009, 05:54:55 PM
I wonder who will be elected as the new speaker.   To follow in the proud footsteps of myself, Franzl, PS, and Peter. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 17, 2009, 06:21:16 PM
I wonder who will be elected as the new speaker.   To follow in the proud footsteps of myself, Franzl, PS, and Peter. :)

and Inks ;) he was speaker for a whike as well.

Judging by those names, whoever is selected will most likely have a very successful political carer to look forward to.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 17, 2009, 07:05:33 PM
I wonder who will be elected as the new speaker.   To follow in the proud footsteps of myself, Franzl, PS, and Peter. :)

and Inks ;) he was speaker for a whike as well.

Judging by those names, whoever is selected will most likely have a very successful political carer to look forward to.



I don't think Inks ever was.  In fact I don't think he was ever an Assemblyman.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on September 17, 2009, 07:09:31 PM
The use of what us older posters would call tomato-souping,

Haha, yes. Those were the days.

Quote
and the newer posters, zombie voting, has become politically acceptable, and I think that destroys a lot of what made Atlasia a great place.

I suspect that Atlasia these days reminds you too much of work anyway :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Vepres on September 17, 2009, 08:02:07 PM
I'm afraid that of late I have become very discontented with Atlasia. Recently I have only tended to the forum to see to my duties as Speaker. I have no desire to continue that on a prolonged basis.

The use of what us older posters would call tomato-souping, and the newer posters, zombie voting, has become politically acceptable, and I think that destroys a lot of what made Atlasia a great place.

I now seek a peaceful retirement from Atlasia and the forum at large. Whilst I confess I will likely post next Spring in the run-up to the general election in the UK, that will probably be the height of my participation.

To my successors as Speaker and Assemblymen, I wish you all the luck in the world. The curtain has fallen, its time to get off the stage, and its exactly what I intend to do.

Tomato-souping?

Anyway, very disappointing, another one of the old Atlasians leaves :(


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 17, 2009, 08:23:23 PM
I wonder who will be elected as the new speaker.   To follow in the proud footsteps of myself, Franzl, PS, and Peter. :)

and Inks ;) he was speaker for a whike as well.

Judging by those names, whoever is selected will most likely have a very successful political carer to look forward to.



I don't think Inks ever was.  In fact I don't think he was ever an Assemblyman.

I wasn't here back then so I can't say for sure, but according to the wiki (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Assembly) he was a member during the 3rd Assembly, and for a short while after Franzl's promotion, Speaker as well.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 17, 2009, 09:33:44 PM
I wonder who will be elected as the new speaker.   To follow in the proud footsteps of myself, Franzl, PS, and Peter. :)

and Inks ;) he was speaker for a whike as well.

Judging by those names, whoever is selected will most likely have a very successful political carer to look forward to.



I don't think Inks ever was.  In fact I don't think he was ever an Assemblyman.

I wasn't here back then so I can't say for sure, but according to the wiki (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Assembly) he was a member during the 3rd Assembly, and for a short while after Franzl's promotion, Speaker as well.

Ahh I forgot about that, That was immediatly following my rise to the Senate and I was quite busy at that point.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 17, 2009, 10:16:46 PM
I wonder who will be elected as the new speaker.   To follow in the proud footsteps of myself, Franzl, PS, and Peter. :)

and Inks ;) he was speaker for a whike as well.

Judging by those names, whoever is selected will most likely have a very successful political carer to look forward to.



I don't think Inks ever was.  In fact I don't think he was ever an Assemblyman.

I wasn't here back then so I can't say for sure, but according to the wiki (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Assembly) he was a member during the 3rd Assembly, and for a short while after Franzl's promotion, Speaker as well.

That's correct.

I'd appreciate if the Assembly could come up with some bill honoring Peter.  I can draft it if yall would like, but we really need something to honor his service.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on September 18, 2009, 12:28:30 AM
I'm afraid that of late I have become very discontented with Atlasia. Recently I have only tended to the forum to see to my duties as Speaker. I have no desire to continue that on a prolonged basis.

The use of what us older posters would call tomato-souping, and the newer posters, zombie voting, has become politically acceptable, and I think that destroys a lot of what made Atlasia a great place.

I now seek a peaceful retirement from Atlasia and the forum at large. Whilst I confess I will likely post next Spring in the run-up to the general election in the UK, that will probably be the height of my participation.

To my successors as Speaker and Assemblymen, I wish you all the luck in the world. The curtain has fallen, its time to get off the stage, and its exactly what I intend to do.

Fare thee well. Your departure will leave a hole in the Mideast and in the heart of Atlasia. You have been a point of brilliance for this game and will be missed.

You were a mentor to me and made the Mideast the success it is today. Thank you for your contributions and service; you will be missed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Јas on September 18, 2009, 10:12:05 AM
I'm afraid that of late I have become very discontented with Atlasia. Recently I have only tended to the forum to see to my duties as Speaker. I have no desire to continue that on a prolonged basis.

The use of what us older posters would call tomato-souping, and the newer posters, zombie voting, has become politically acceptable, and I think that destroys a lot of what made Atlasia a great place.

I now seek a peaceful retirement from Atlasia and the forum at large. Whilst I confess I will likely post next Spring in the run-up to the general election in the UK, that will probably be the height of my participation.

To my successors as Speaker and Assemblymen, I wish you all the luck in the world. The curtain has fallen, its time to get off the stage, and its exactly what I intend to do.

A sad day :(


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 18, 2009, 12:40:13 PM
I wonder who will be elected as the new speaker.   To follow in the proud footsteps of myself, Franzl, PS, and Peter. :)

and Inks ;) he was speaker for a whike as well.

Judging by those names, whoever is selected will most likely have a very successful political carer to look forward to.



I don't think Inks ever was.  In fact I don't think he was ever an Assemblyman.

I wasn't here back then so I can't say for sure, but according to the wiki (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Assembly) he was a member during the 3rd Assembly, and for a short while after Franzl's promotion, Speaker as well.

That's correct.

I'd appreciate if the Assembly could come up with some bill honoring Peter.  I can draft it if yall would like, but we really need something to honor his service.

An excellent suggestion, Governor.

I submit the following for the Assembly's approval:

"WHEREAS:

Peter has been an active and distinguished member of the Atlasia community since its inception, making him one of the Forum's true founding fathers; and

In that time Peter has distinguished himself throughout Atlasia serving in countless roles in the Senate, Forum Affairs, the Supreme Court, as Attorney General, and Vice-President; and

Peter has further well-served the Mideast Region in particular serving with distinction as Governor and Speaker of the Assembly; and

In all of these many roles and offices Peter has deservedly earned a reputation for leadership, impartiality and good judgment thus earning him respect across all Atlasia and party lines:

Be it hereby RESOLVED that the Mideast Region does honor and deeply thank Peter for his many years of fine service to our region and nation on this, the occasion of his retirement from public life.

Be it further RESOLVED that the Mideast does award as retirement gifts to Peter this golden watch:

()
Appropriately inscribed: "To Peter from the Mideast <3 <3 <3";



and this pony:

()

SO RESOLVED."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 18, 2009, 01:24:51 PM
I'm 100% behind a bill honouring Peter. :)

Maybe we could be inspired by the Midwest and rename the region's capital to Peter's Park instead of College Park.

Also Badger, a pony? In the middle of a huge economic recession? May I suggest we consider the less expensive possibility of a mule ;P

 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 18, 2009, 03:19:32 PM
I'm 100% behind a bill honouring Peter. :)

Maybe we could be inspired by the Midwest and rename the region's capital to Peter's Park instead of College Park.

Also Badger, a pony? In the middle of a huge economic recession? May I suggest we consider the less expensive possibility of a mule ;P

 
A MULE?!? Zounds, Sir! Would you denigrate this fine man's accomplishments with non-breeding stock? And less adorable stock at that! (Besides, consider it a tiny stimulus to the region's horse ranching industry) ;-)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on September 18, 2009, 03:21:22 PM
Perhaps the Mideast senator can secure an earmark to fund the pony?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 18, 2009, 03:23:18 PM
Perhaps the Mideast senator can secure an earmark to fund the pony?

Cuddliest. Earmark. Ever.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 19, 2009, 08:00:38 PM
Mr. Speaker. In light of the apparent lack of debate on the resolution placed on the Assembly floor almost 36 hours ago, may we ignore your modesty on the matter and please call it to a vote?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 20, 2009, 04:39:53 PM
I'm 100% behind a bill honouring Peter. :)

Maybe we could be inspired by the Midwest and rename the region's capital to Peter's Park instead of College Park.

Also Badger, a pony? In the middle of a huge economic recession? May I suggest we consider the less expensive possibility of a mule ;P

 
A MULE?!? Zounds, Sir! Would you denigrate this fine man's accomplishments with non-breeding stock? And less adorable stock at that! (Besides, consider it a tiny stimulus to the region's horse ranching industry) ;-)

How about a zorse?  Very unique idea... :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 20, 2009, 04:55:15 PM
If it would be all right, I have enough money stashed away from lobbyists that I could easily afford to buy Peter a pony.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on September 20, 2009, 05:30:06 PM
I think we should also commission a statue or name the regional capital after our distinguished former Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 20, 2009, 06:18:29 PM
I'd like to add the following bill in addition to the one proposed by Badger.

State Capital Renaming Act

The City of College Park, Maryland, shall henceforth be known by the name Peter’s Park, Maryland, in honour of the Mideast citizen Peter, former Governor, Speaker of the Assembly, Attorney General, Secretary of Forum Affairs, Chief Justice, Vice President, and co-author of Atlasia’s second constitution.   



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 20, 2009, 07:02:02 PM
I'd like to add the following bill in addition to the one proposed by Badger.

State Capital Renaming Act

The City of College Park, Maryland, shall henceforth be known by the name Peter’s Park, Maryland, in honour of the Mideast citizen Peter, former Governor, Speaker of the Assembly, Attorney General, Secretary of Forum Affairs, Chief Justice, Vice President, and co-author of Atlasia’s second constitution.   


I accept this amendment as friendly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 21, 2009, 04:58:07 PM
Thank you for the well wishes. I really was quite surprised by it. To be honest, I had expected to simply fade away barely noticed. Maybe I was a bit wrong about the present state of Atlasia.

Anyway, I do need a break, and to those who ask me to stay on the forum - other than a few posts on the international boards, I barely post outside Atlasia, so whilst I'll undoubtedly browse from time to time, its best to consider this a retirement.

Thank you for the many bills - the watch I'm sure would go with my new real life suit. The pony might not do it so much good, though hopefully it'll keep the lawn down. I really do consider it a high honour that somebody has even considered it fitting to rename the capital for me. Once again, thank you.

I will give a final address when I adjourn the Assembly on Friday.

The Badger resolution is on the floor. If the SC bill is to be combined with it, may I suggest that it is rewritten in the same style? I'll leave that for one of you guys.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 21, 2009, 07:13:55 PM
OK, I think I've properly combined the two. The resolution and statutory enactment language work alright together, and I don't believe there's anything legal or parliamentary forbidding a resolution along with an act of law. Besides, this is so broadly supported I doubt anyone will be such a---what's the term again, Mechman? Oh, yeah---"douchewaffle" and sue to overturn the act on such grounds.

So without further ado I present:

The Capital Renaming and Further Celebration of Peter's Retirement Act.

"WHEREAS:

Peter has been an active and distinguished member of the Atlasia community since its inception, making him one of the Forum's true founding fathers; and

In that time Peter has distinguished himself throughout Atlasia serving in countless roles in the Senate, Forum Affairs, the Supreme Court, as Attorney General, and Vice-President; and

Peter has further well-served the Mideast Region in particular serving with distinction as Governor and Speaker of the Assembly; and

In all of these many roles and offices Peter has deservedly earned a reputation for leadership, impartiality and good judgment thus earning him respect across all Atlasia and party lines:

Be it hereby RESOLVED that the Mideast Region does honor and deeply thank Peter for his many years of fine service to our region and nation on this, the occasion of his retirement from public life.

Be it further RESOLVED that the Mideast does award as retirement gifts to Peter this golden watch:

()
Appropriately inscribed: "To Peter from the Mideast <3 <3 <3";



and this pony:

()

Be it further hereby enacted that:

The City of College Park, Maryland, shall henceforth be known by the name Peter’s Park, Maryland, in honour of the Mideast citizen Peter, former Governor, Speaker of the Assembly, Attorney General, Secretary of Forum Affairs, Chief Justice, Vice President, and co-author of Atlasia’s second constitution.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 22, 2009, 05:54:01 AM
The act will be treated wholely as a Law, as oppoesd to resolution. Whilst small, I think my watch and pony do constitute an expenditure, so need to be a Law, as does the capital thing.

Assuming no objection, I open the vote on the whole bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 22, 2009, 06:36:02 AM
  Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 22, 2009, 11:30:27 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 22, 2009, 01:10:40 PM
The Ayes have it. The Ayes have it.

The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his signature or veto.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 23, 2009, 12:22:47 AM
The bill has been signed.  What all is still on the docket?  Let's see if we can't get some stuff passed before this Assembly adjourns.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on September 25, 2009, 10:54:53 AM
I wish to thank the many people who have made my time on here as enjoyable as it has been. My particular warm regards to Al, who has been a good friend throughout my years on this forum. His counsel and his support have been exemplary, and I must say that he has contributed so much that I think Atlasia would be much the worse if we had not had him.

In my time here, I've seen a lot of history and whilst it is important we see new blood, I do think it is important that we do not lose sight of the past. The machine voting of the AFDNC/AFRNC has returned in another guise, and whilst in some way they may be sustaining Atlasia's "activity", that is but a false dawn. You must take this nation beyond machine voting, and seek a truly energised electorate, and a level of debate and non-partisanship that sees every vote genuinely in contention and voters going outside their parties. That, ladies and gentlemen, is exciting, not a race to see who can turn out their core, inactive vote out the best.

Another man who I wish to honour who is active, but no longer in office, is an Irishman, Jas. His commitment to this nation has been stalwart - he helped run the federal government with efficiency and humour at the same time. In so many ways he combined these two key attributes, and again, I think we would be much the worse without him.

I wish to thank the Assembly for the great honour it has done me. I suppose now the future generations won’t forget my existence as the capital of our Region bears my name. To the future Assembly, good luck. To you all, good luck.

That leaves one last thing.

*Order, Order*
This Assembly is adjourned Sine Die.
Omnis Tuus Castra Sunt Inesse Nos

*Peter climbs on to pony back and gallops into the sunset*


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 25, 2009, 02:16:48 PM
*Hugs Peter before he takes off on his pony*

You'll be missed a great deal. :)

So I gues there's no reason to wait before we get back to work.

* * * * * *

Order, please.

The 8th Mideast Assembly is now in session.

As Dean of the Assembly, it is my duty to arrange the election of a new Speaker. I urge my fellow assemblymen to swear in as soon as possible, and submit your nominations for Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on September 25, 2009, 02:33:25 PM
A new age for the Mideast Assembly. Well, I am confident that you all have learned from the example of Peter and the others that have preceded you. I believe I speak for the region when I say we are hopeful that you will use that knowledge to keep this body active, as well as to engage and teach newer members in the same way you have been taught.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 26, 2009, 05:44:20 PM
*cough*


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on September 27, 2009, 03:41:38 PM
As he may now be considered as an experienced assemblyman, as I am newly elected in this assembly and doesn't wish to become Speaker and as he coughs in a dignified way,

I hereby nominate Sweedish Cheese to Speaker of this Assembly.

Does my colleague Badger second this nomination ?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on September 27, 2009, 03:47:42 PM
As he may now be considered as an experienced assemblyman, as I am newly elected in this assembly and doesn't wish to become Speaker and as he coughs in a dignified way,

I hereby nominate Sweedish Cheese to Speaker of this Assembly.

Does my colleague Badger second this nomination ?

I know I'm not a Mideast Citizen, and I promise not to clog up your Assembly, but, I endorse my great friend, Swedish Cheese, as Speaker of this august body.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on September 27, 2009, 03:49:16 PM
While my colleagues are thinking about the best name for Speaker,

may I ask my honourable colleagues and our Governor if this is the most up-to-date text of our Constitution, so that I can work on the real current words ?

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Third_Constitution

And may I ask if this is the most up-to-date collection of our laws ?
If this is the case, the most recent statutes aren't readable easily, in the absence of any valid link.
And is this list really complete ?

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Statute


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 28, 2009, 01:46:14 AM
While my colleagues are thinking about the best name for Speaker,

may I ask my honourable colleagues and our Governor if this is the most up-to-date text of our Constitution, so that I can work on the real current words ?

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Third_Constitution

And may I ask if this is the most up-to-date collection of our laws ?
If this is the case, the most recent statutes aren't readable easily, in the absence of any valid link.
And is this list really complete ?

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Statute

The Statutes are out of date.  I was working on that, but got swamped with other stuff.  My goal is to start working on that again.  The Constitution is up to date though.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 28, 2009, 11:59:53 AM
As he may now be considered as an experienced assemblyman, as I am newly elected in this assembly and doesn't wish to become Speaker and as he coughs in a dignified way,

I hereby nominate Sweedish Cheese to Speaker of this Assembly.

Does my colleague Badger second this nomination ?
Sorry, for the delay. Went away for the weekend.

My only objection to Fab's nomination of SC as Speaker is that he beat me to it. :-)

I second.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on September 28, 2009, 12:32:13 PM
As he may now be considered as an experienced assemblyman, as I am newly elected in this assembly and doesn't wish to become Speaker and as he coughs in a dignified way,

I hereby nominate Sweedish Cheese to Speaker of this Assembly.

Does my colleague Badger second this nomination ?
Sorry, for the delay. Went away for the weekend.

My only objection to Fab's nomination of SC as Speaker is that he beat me to it. :-)

I second.

:)

Thank you both! It's a great honour to have your trust.

I of course accept the Speakership. I'll make sure this will be one of the most active and productive assemblies in our history, and with such great collegues, how could it not. :)

 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 01, 2009, 08:22:17 AM
OK Gov, we get the hint. I was waiting for the Senate's expected passage of a national DUI bill requiring changes to minimum fines to introduce a DUI reform bill I've been planning. It seems that the federal bill's passage has slowed though. So until it does pass, to get a nice bi-partisan bill to start off the new session I present something primarily authored by Gov. Inks.

I've thought about the Freedom to Roam act since it was vetoed (Lordy, do I need a life), and Governor Inks compromise proposal was actually not bad. A good balance between landowners rights and opening up spaces for hiking and camping on land where the owner consents. So with that in mind I proudly present:

The Mideast Freedom to Roam Where Inks Tells You Bill
1. Anyone shall have the right to access, use, and pass through privately owned land in the Mideast Region except for land that falls under subsections 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9. Such as beaches, forests, and fields, as long as they do not damage or disturb the area in any way.   
2. It shall be legal to camp on private land for a maximum of 48 hours, as long as campers do not in any form damage or disturb the area, and leave the place in the same condition as they found it.
3. Activities that require usage of the area's resources, such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking, may not be practiced without the landowner's clear consent.   
4. The direct radiuses of 250 m around residential buildings are considered gardens and yards, and are therefore excluded from this bill.
5. Privately owned land that does not exceed the size of 400 acres is excluded from this bill. 
6. Nature reserves and other areas with delicate and sensitive ecosystems are excluded from this bill.
7. Fields where crops are being grown are excluded from this bill.
8. Areas where young animals are reared are excluded from this bill.
9. Any land owner can choose to exclude his land from being made accessible to the public by notifying the Mideast Department of Natural Resources. In order for a land owner to close his land to the public, some form of clear and legible signage must be posted on said property.
 10. During hunts, landowners have the right to dismiss visitors from the hunting ground.
11. If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, damages or disturbs the area by polluting, vandalising, or ruining the surroundings, they may be subject to a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.   
12. If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, chooses to illegally engage in activities such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking may be subject for a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.
13. (a) If a landowner, without reason, tries to dismiss or chase away people from his or her land, he or she may be subject for a fine of up to $250.
(b) If a landowner who wrongfully posts signs or other warnings against trespass without having first filed an opt out notice pursuant to Section 9 above is subject to up to a $250 fine on a first offense. For any repeat violation within five years of a prior conviction  is punishable by up to a $500 fine and/or 30 days incarceration.
14. (a) Owners of private property covered by this law may close their land from Freedom to Roam; however, written notice of the beginning and end dates of any closure period must be received in writing by the local police authority at least 24 hours before any signage or other notice of closure is posted on the property.
(b) Posting public notice. All public posting, notice or signage of property closure must include the beginning and end dates of said closure legibly written.
(c) Violation of these provisions is punishable by up to a $250 fine on a first offense. For any repeat violation within five years of a prior conviction  is punishable by up to a $500 fine and/or 30 days incarceration.
15. (a) Any transfer of ownership or title of a qualifying property will cause any opt out notice previously filed with the Mideast Department of Natural Resources pursuant to Section 9 of this statute to be canceled 30 days after the day of transfer of title or ownership.
(b) Paragraph 15 (a) will not be construed to prohibit the new property owner from filing a new opt out notice for the property with the Department at any time during or after said 30 day period.

Identical to Inks proposal except I added 13 (b) to cover posting no trespassing signs without opting out. Essentially aimed at the militia kooks who would rather flout the law than simply opt out. Also added section 15 governing transfer of property giving purchasers/transferees of property 30 days "coverage" from the former owner's previously filed opt out so new owners aren't forced to do so immediately as part of a real estate closing.

I understand Swedish Cheese, this falls short of what you aimed for originally, but it certainly does open up more lands for hiking and camping by consent and at least encompasses the spirit of your proposal. Accordingly I hope you'll support it. I think it's really cool they have such a thing in Scandanavia, but American cultural and political norms are strongly entwined with property rights, so such a plan wouldn't be widely accepted here.

Since Governor Inks designed this plan so it is truly voluntary for landowners, I believe this bill should satisfy those of us who had concerns about unduly impinging on private property rights.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 02, 2009, 12:00:53 AM
Now that I'll sign.  :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on October 02, 2009, 12:23:38 AM
That is as good as you could hope to get. I'm not even that big of a fan of F2R, so that seems an acceptable compromise.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 02, 2009, 03:17:02 AM
My fellow Assemblymen, dear Governor,

I'm sorry to be contrarian as soon as we begin our session, but I can't approve the Freedom to Roam Bill and my reasons are mostly principled ones.

- First, the right to private property and to peacefully use it is sacred, of course in Atlasia, but even in old European Bills of Rights. This right should not be infringed in any way, even by Law.

Our Mideast citizens want to be quiet in their own properties and to use peacefully their private lands.

That's a principle but it's also a matter of being realistic, as I've said in August.
When you allow someone, even within strict limits, to stay on other's private property, there's always a risk of squatting beyond those limits (of time, of land, etc) and, AFTERWARDS, it's very hard to put the squatters off, because you need a decision from a judge and you need the police, etc.
So, don't take the risk... Only voluntary landowners should be allowed to greet roamers, campers or whoever they want.

- The radiuses around houses are entirely theoretical and wouldn't prevent roamers AT ALL from infringing the Clause 14 of our Bill of Rights: All persons shall have the right to privacy in resepct of their personal and family lives.
How would a roamer be aware he is inside or outside this radius ?

- Another problem with this proposal is that, when roamers or campers wound themselves on someone else's land (e.g. because there are wounding wastes or because this land isn't maintained and a dead tree falls on the campers), some of them may try to make the landowner responsible.
And I cannot agree on a Law which force a private owner to open his property and then, he is the one who is sued for other people's behaviour.

- The 11th clause is of course an unrealistic illusion. It's not at all a protection for a private owner who, again, hasn't asked for anything.
Someone who wants to camp freely doesn't go the owner's house to declare his identity and give his card number in case he should be fined at the end becaue of problems...
It wouldn't be possible to legally prove who is responsible for "disturbances".

Another point is that the relative amounts of fines (500-250) for a roamer who is responsible for "disturbances" that may be really serious and for a private owner who is just putting signs in his property (maybe because he wouldn't be aware that he has to declare that his property is closed) are quite... surprising. All the more that the private owner may finish in jail...
Here, I think that, here, an atomic bomb is used to kill a fly.

- What is more, some damages can't be compensated for,
as they may be massive (an entire forest burnt after just a small barbecue, for example)
or with consequences on the long term (a chemical pollution with products that "live" for decades or just one multi-centennial tree that is cut)
or just because money can't make it for nature, for natural diversity, for small ecological equilibrium.

- The problem with all these points is that the BURDEN OF PROOF is on the side of the private owner, not on the side of the roamer or the camper, whereas it's the owner's right who is infringed.
Again, on principle, I cannot agree with this.

BTW, the closing after written notice to the local police is a technocratic procedure that will clutter our police, whose mission isn't a purely administrative and archiving one.

- All those procedures, all those controls, all those clauses trying to put limits were introduced with a kind and fine spirit of compromise and we must thank the authors for that.
But, in some cases, compromise may lead to excessively complicated and technocratic clauses: Law must remain simple.

- The only way I can agree on such a proposal is when it's changed to be about PUBLIC lands only, which may be more open to camping if you want, for example,
and about PRIVATE lands that their owners VOLUNTARILY and EXPLICITLY declare open to free roaming.
You may even ease roaming where it's possible by gathering and spreading information in official websites, leaflets, etc. about private lands voluntarily open and public lands.

I thank you for your attention.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Alexander Hamilton on October 02, 2009, 03:18:34 AM
Go Big Bad FAb! Yeah!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 02, 2009, 05:34:07 AM
I'm still of the oppinion that it's not a Freedom to Roam law unless you actually give people the freedom to roam where they please. As I see it this bill is just a fancy way to keep the statues quo. Landowners already have the right to open their lands to the public if they want to, just as they can close them. This bill will technically change nothing.

I think we should either do a proper Freedom to Roam bill, or if that's not what people want, then no Freedom to Roam at all.

 

     


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on October 02, 2009, 03:27:07 PM
Message from the Office of the GM

Honorable Members of the Mideast Assembly,

The office of the GM has just reported that the Mideast region has the highest unemployment in Atlasia, as well as the fastest-growing regional unemployment. I would recommend economic legislation along the lines of previous GM analyses in order to save the region from economic collapse.

~PS


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 02, 2009, 06:55:44 PM
Message from the Office of the GM

Honorable Members of the Mideast Assembly,

The office of the GM has just reported that the Mideast region has the highest unemployment in Atlasia, as well as the fastest-growing regional unemployment. I would recommend economic legislation along the lines of previous GM analyses in order to save the region from economic collapse.

~PS
I haven't forgotten, Mr. GM. On my short to-do list I promise. ;-)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 04, 2009, 01:00:45 PM


The Mideast Freedom to Roam Where Inks Tells You Bill
1. Anyone shall have the right to access, use, and pass through privately owned land in the Mideast Region except for land that falls under subsections 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9. Such as beaches, forests, and fields, as long as they do not damage or disturb the area in any way.   
2. It shall be legal to camp on private land for a maximum of 48 hours, as long as campers do not in any form damage or disturb the area, and leave the place in the same condition as they found it.
3. Activities that require usage of the area's resources, such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking, may not be practiced without the landowner's clear consent.   
4. The direct radiuses of 250 m around residential buildings are considered gardens and yards, and are therefore excluded from this bill.
5. Privately owned land that does not exceed the size of 400 acres is excluded from this bill. 
6. Nature reserves and other areas with delicate and sensitive ecosystems are excluded from this bill.
7. Fields where crops are being grown are excluded from this bill.
8. Areas where young animals are reared are excluded from this bill.
9. Any land owner can choose to exclude his land from being made accessible to the public by notifying the Mideast Department of Natural Resources. In order for a land owner to close his land to the public, some form of clear and legible signage must be posted on said property.
 10. During hunts, landowners have the right to dismiss visitors from the hunting ground.
11. If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, damages or disturbs the area by polluting, vandalising, or ruining the surroundings, they may be subject to a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.   
12. If a person, who is practicing their Freedom to Roam, chooses to illegally engage in activities such as hunting, fishing, berry and mushroom picking may be subject for a fine of up to $500 as well as paying additional damages to the landowner.
13. (a) If a landowner, without reason, tries to dismiss or chase away people from his or her land, he or she may be subject for a fine of up to $250.
(b) If a landowner who wrongfully posts signs or other warnings against trespass without having first filed an opt out notice pursuant to Section 9 above is subject to up to a $250 fine on a first offense. For any repeat violation within five years of a prior conviction  is punishable by up to a $500 fine and/or 30 days incarceration.
14. (a) Owners of private property covered by this law may close their land from Freedom to Roam; however, written notice of the beginning and end dates of any closure period must be received in writing by the local police authority at least 24 hours before any signage or other notice of closure is posted on the property.
(b) Posting public notice. All public posting, notice or signage of property closure must include the beginning and end dates of said closure legibly written.
(c) Violation of these provisions is punishable by up to a $250 fine on a first offense. For any repeat violation within five years of a prior conviction  is punishable by up to a $500 fine and/or 30 days incarceration.
15. (a) Any transfer of ownership or title of a qualifying property will cause any opt out notice previously filed with the Mideast Department of Natural Resources pursuant to Section 9 of this statute to be canceled 30 days after the day of transfer of title or ownership.
(b) Paragraph 15 (a) will not be construed to prohibit the new property owner from filing a new opt out notice for the property with the Department at any time during or after said 30 day period.

Since there has been no further debate on this bill. I herby open the vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 04, 2009, 02:18:03 PM
The Mideast Freedom to Roam Where Inks Tells You Bill

NO.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 04, 2009, 09:53:14 PM
My fellow Assemblymen, dear Governor,

I'm sorry to be contrarian as soon as we begin our session, but I can't approve the Freedom to Roam Bill and my reasons are mostly principled ones.

- First, the right to private property and to peacefully use it is sacred, of course in Atlasia, but even in old European Bills of Rights. This right should not be infringed in any way, even by Law.

Our Mideast citizens want to be quiet in their own properties and to use peacefully their private lands.

That's a principle but it's also a matter of being realistic, as I've said in August.
When you allow someone, even within strict limits, to stay on other's private property, there's always a risk of squatting beyond those limits (of time, of land, etc) and, AFTERWARDS, it's very hard to put the squatters off, because you need a decision from a judge and you need the police, etc.
So, don't take the risk... Only voluntary landowners should be allowed to greet roamers, campers or whoever they want.

- The radiuses around houses are entirely theoretical and wouldn't prevent roamers AT ALL from infringing the Clause 14 of our Bill of Rights: All persons shall have the right to privacy in resepct of their personal and family lives.
How would a roamer be aware he is inside or outside this radius ?

- Another problem with this proposal is that, when roamers or campers wound themselves on someone else's land (e.g. because there are wounding wastes or because this land isn't maintained and a dead tree falls on the campers), some of them may try to make the landowner responsible.
And I cannot agree on a Law which force a private owner to open his property and then, he is the one who is sued for other people's behaviour.

- The 11th clause is of course an unrealistic illusion. It's not at all a protection for a private owner who, again, hasn't asked for anything.
Someone who wants to camp freely doesn't go the owner's house to declare his identity and give his card number in case he should be fined at the end becaue of problems...
It wouldn't be possible to legally prove who is responsible for "disturbances".

Another point is that the relative amounts of fines (500-250) for a roamer who is responsible for "disturbances" that may be really serious and for a private owner who is just putting signs in his property (maybe because he wouldn't be aware that he has to declare that his property is closed) are quite... surprising. All the more that the private owner may finish in jail...
Here, I think that, here, an atomic bomb is used to kill a fly.

- What is more, some damages can't be compensated for,
as they may be massive (an entire forest burnt after just a small barbecue, for example)
or with consequences on the long term (a chemical pollution with products that "live" for decades or just one multi-centennial tree that is cut)
or just because money can't make it for nature, for natural diversity, for small ecological equilibrium.

- The problem with all these points is that the BURDEN OF PROOF is on the side of the private owner, not on the side of the roamer or the camper, whereas it's the owner's right who is infringed.
Again, on principle, I cannot agree with this.

BTW, the closing after written notice to the local police is a technocratic procedure that will clutter our police, whose mission isn't a purely administrative and archiving one.

- All those procedures, all those controls, all those clauses trying to put limits were introduced with a kind and fine spirit of compromise and we must thank the authors for that.
But, in some cases, compromise may lead to excessively complicated and technocratic clauses: Law must remain simple.

- The only way I can agree on such a proposal is when it's changed to be about PUBLIC lands only, which may be more open to camping if you want, for example,
and about PRIVATE lands that their owners VOLUNTARILY and EXPLICITLY declare open to free roaming.
You may even ease roaming where it's possible by gathering and spreading information in official websites, leaflets, etc. about private lands voluntarily open and public lands.

I thank you for your attention.

With due respect Fab, I don't think you've read this bill very closely. Or at least not reviewed the profound differences between this bill Inks proposed and the original one. For all your pronouncements about the the importance of not "forcing" campers and hikers onto private property you've ignored the fact that this is voluntary with the landowner. Campers and hikers come on to their land with their consent or they're tresspassing, the same as the law has always been. It's as simple as that.

Secondly, I don't understand your opposition to this bill based on potential hazards to private property and the burden of proof for proving damages being upon landowners. That situation is already the law. If this bill were defeated tomorrow what you described would still be the status quo, and has nothing whatsoever to do with this bill.

Finally, regarding the proposed penalties, I wrote the possible--not mandatory--jail sentence as a penalty for persons previously convicted who cannot claim ignorance as an excuse, and as a way for a court to suspend jail as a way forcing militia types who refuse to follow the law, or even impose it for the most extreme defendants. Look, if you have a problem with the proposed penalties, offer an amendment proposing reasonable changes and I for one would be open to considering it. I suspect you might not though as your opposition to this bill is obviously far more fundamental then that.

Inks did a good job ensuring this bill would protect landowners rights and making the program voluntary, so I'm sorry but I'm having real trouble figuring out where you're coming from here.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Vepres on October 04, 2009, 09:55:45 PM
My fellow Assemblymen, dear Governor,

I'm sorry to be contrarian as soon as we begin our session, but I can't approve the Freedom to Roam Bill and my reasons are mostly principled ones.

- First, the right to private property and to peacefully use it is sacred, of course in Atlasia, but even in old European Bills of Rights. This right should not be infringed in any way, even by Law.

Our Mideast citizens want to be quiet in their own properties and to use peacefully their private lands.

That's a principle but it's also a matter of being realistic, as I've said in August.
When you allow someone, even within strict limits, to stay on other's private property, there's always a risk of squatting beyond those limits (of time, of land, etc) and, AFTERWARDS, it's very hard to put the squatters off, because you need a decision from a judge and you need the police, etc.
So, don't take the risk... Only voluntary landowners should be allowed to greet roamers, campers or whoever they want.

- The radiuses around houses are entirely theoretical and wouldn't prevent roamers AT ALL from infringing the Clause 14 of our Bill of Rights: All persons shall have the right to privacy in resepct of their personal and family lives.
How would a roamer be aware he is inside or outside this radius ?

- Another problem with this proposal is that, when roamers or campers wound themselves on someone else's land (e.g. because there are wounding wastes or because this land isn't maintained and a dead tree falls on the campers), some of them may try to make the landowner responsible.
And I cannot agree on a Law which force a private owner to open his property and then, he is the one who is sued for other people's behaviour.

- The 11th clause is of course an unrealistic illusion. It's not at all a protection for a private owner who, again, hasn't asked for anything.
Someone who wants to camp freely doesn't go the owner's house to declare his identity and give his card number in case he should be fined at the end becaue of problems...
It wouldn't be possible to legally prove who is responsible for "disturbances".

Another point is that the relative amounts of fines (500-250) for a roamer who is responsible for "disturbances" that may be really serious and for a private owner who is just putting signs in his property (maybe because he wouldn't be aware that he has to declare that his property is closed) are quite... surprising. All the more that the private owner may finish in jail...
Here, I think that, here, an atomic bomb is used to kill a fly.

- What is more, some damages can't be compensated for,
as they may be massive (an entire forest burnt after just a small barbecue, for example)
or with consequences on the long term (a chemical pollution with products that "live" for decades or just one multi-centennial tree that is cut)
or just because money can't make it for nature, for natural diversity, for small ecological equilibrium.

- The problem with all these points is that the BURDEN OF PROOF is on the side of the private owner, not on the side of the roamer or the camper, whereas it's the owner's right who is infringed.
Again, on principle, I cannot agree with this.

BTW, the closing after written notice to the local police is a technocratic procedure that will clutter our police, whose mission isn't a purely administrative and archiving one.

- All those procedures, all those controls, all those clauses trying to put limits were introduced with a kind and fine spirit of compromise and we must thank the authors for that.
But, in some cases, compromise may lead to excessively complicated and technocratic clauses: Law must remain simple.

- The only way I can agree on such a proposal is when it's changed to be about PUBLIC lands only, which may be more open to camping if you want, for example,
and about PRIVATE lands that their owners VOLUNTARILY and EXPLICITLY declare open to free roaming.
You may even ease roaming where it's possible by gathering and spreading information in official websites, leaflets, etc. about private lands voluntarily open and public lands.

I thank you for your attention.

With due respect Fab, I don't think you've read this bill very closely. Or at least not reviewed the profound differences between this bill Inks proposed and the original one. For all your pronouncements about the the importance of not "forcing" campers and hikers onto private property you've ignored the fact that this is voluntary with the landowner. Campers and hikers come on to their land with their consent or they're tresspassing, the same as the law has always been. It's as simple as that.

Secondly, I don't understand your opposition to this bill based on potential hazards to private property and the burden of proof for proving damages being upon landowners. That situation is already the law. If this bill were defeated tomorrow what you described would still be the status quo, and has nothing whatsoever to do with this bill.

Finally, regarding the proposed penalties, I wrote the possible--not mandatory--jail sentence as a penalty for persons previously convicted who cannot claim ignorance as an excuse, and as a way for a court to suspend jail as a way forcing militia types who refuse to follow the law, or even impose it for the most extreme defendants. Look, if you have a problem with the proposed penalties, offer an amendment proposing reasonable changes and I for one would be open to considering it. I suspect you might not though as your opposition to this bill is obviously far more fundamental then that.

Inks did a good job ensuring this bill would protect landowners rights and making the program voluntary, so I'm sorry but I'm having real trouble figuring out where you're coming from here.

*Takes a deep breath through nose* I smell a December at-large candidate ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 04, 2009, 11:11:39 PM
I'm still of the opinion that it's not a Freedom to Roam law unless you actually give people the freedom to roam where they please. As I see it this bill is just a fancy way to keep the statues quo. Landowners already have the right to open their lands to the public if they want to, just as they can close them. This bill will technically change nothing.

I think we should either do a proper Freedom to Roam bill, or if that's not what people want, then no Freedom to Roam at all.

I urge you to reconsider, my friend. I realize this bill is nowhere near as extensive as what you offered, but it will still open up hundreds, if not thousands of square miles to camping and hiking and keep peace with landowners. You're a reasonable person so I hope you won't oppose this measure simply because it only provides a half loaf instead of a full loaf, particularly as there is no real downside to the bill from the perspective of freedom to roam enthusiasts.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 04, 2009, 11:19:23 PM
Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 05, 2009, 02:20:26 AM
To Vepres: a respectful LOL at your smelling. I'm not candidate to anything. Don't misinterpret Hamilton's recent vocal break from the gallery ;).

To Badger: no, I think it's not voluntary.
The rule is the freedom to roam, the exception is the landowner who should notify to the government that he doesn't want to be included in "open areas".
And, BTW, it's not really fair to force landowners that don't want to open their properties to buy signs and to make them "clear" (it may be difficult and many roamers would, volutnarily or not, pretend that they don't have seen the signs... if you've passed through some forests, you will understand what I'm saying).
I won't rewrite the law the other way, because it would be far too different from Sweedish Chesse's initial proposal.

As for the burden of proof, of course, you have currently to prove when someone damages your property, but the landowner is presumed to be right.
When you let everybody pass through properties, judges will take into account that, without any more evidence, a person who passes through is presumed to be right.

As for penalties, you're right, I won't propose any amendment as my reasons are principled ones, as I've written.

My opposition may seem to be harsh, but the Freedom to Roam wouldn't be only allowing nice families quietly walking through some desert woods.
This is about private property, which is an important constitutional right and, I may say, even more than that. (It will be the subject of one of the proposals I'll put forward this week, BTW.)
And this is about being careful about the environment. With due respect, I may say that Sweedish Cheese's idea is a bit too much a city-dweller's one (and of course duely inspired by far more civic behaviour in some North European countries ;)).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 07, 2009, 01:37:50 AM
Quote
And this is about being careful about the environment. With due respect, I may say that Sweedish Cheese's idea is a bit too much a city-dweller's one (and of course duely inspired by far more civic behaviour in some North European countries

*Looks out through the window above my desk on the cows strolling the fields. Turns and looks out through the other window in my room, at the barn, the kennel, and the woods behind them.*

Strangely enough I don't feel like a city-dweller. ;)

Anyway, I have finally made up my mind, after some lobbying from Badger's part.



  Aye



The Ayes have it. The bill is transmitted to the Governor's desk for his signature or veto.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 07, 2009, 05:36:06 AM
I'd like to introduce the following bill to the Assembly:


Public procurement policy Bill:

1. The government and all public institutions of the Mideast, when they intend to purchase goods, works or services, shall make a call for tenders. In their call, they shall explain the consistence of goods, works or services required, the cost estimate, the ceiling set for public spending, the process for bidding, the information required from the bidders, the criterias set to be selected.

2. Among the criterias set to select among the bidders the one who will provide the goods, works or services, the public institution shall include the compliance with standards and labels of sustainable development, organic agrivulture and environmental quality.
This criteria shall be the first one in 15% of calls for tenders in 2010, in 30% in 2012, in 50% in 2014, in 65% in 2016, in 75% in 2018 and in 90% in 2020 and thereafter.

3. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for businesses whose registered office is located in the Mideast. When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, the business located in the Mideast shall be selected.

4. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for small and middle-sized businesses. When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias and when they are both located in the Mideast, the smaller business shall be selected. The size of a business shall be set in the call for tenders, by a mix between the number of people employed by the business and the amount of its sales.


The aim is to boost the local economy, while setting clear rules for public purchases (which should reinforce real competition) and promoting an eco-friendly policy.

This draft needs of course debates and amendments.
But I think that, on the principle, these 3 main points in the bill may be agreed on as priorities for the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 08, 2009, 08:45:48 PM
I'd like to introduce the following bill to the Assembly:


Public procurement policy Bill:

1. The government and all public institutions of the Mideast, when they intend to purchase goods, works or services, shall make a call for tenders. In their call, they shall explain the consistence of goods, works or services required, the cost estimate, the ceiling set for public spending, the process for bidding, the information required from the bidders, the criterias set to be selected.

2. Among the criterias set to select among the bidders the one who will provide the goods, works or services, the public institution shall include the compliance with standards and labels of sustainable development, organic agrivulture and environmental quality.
This criteria shall be the first one in 15% of calls for tenders in 2010, in 30% in 2012, in 50% in 2014, in 65% in 2016, in 75% in 2018 and in 90% in 2020 and thereafter.

3. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for businesses whose registered office is located in the Mideast. When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, the business located in the Mideast shall be selected.

4. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for small and middle-sized businesses. When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias and when they are both located in the Mideast, the smaller business shall be selected. The size of a business shall be set in the call for tenders, by a mix between the number of people employed by the business and the amount of its sales.


The aim is to boost the local economy, while setting clear rules for public purchases (which should reinforce real competition) and promoting an eco-friendly policy.

This draft needs of course debates and amendments.
But I think that, on the principle, these 3 main points in the bill may be agreed on as priorities for the Mideast.

Interesting bill, Fab. Let me ask whether section 3 might be better written to be based on the amount of the product or service is produced/manufactured in the Mideast as opposed to having a "registered office" . A company could produce the products or services outside the Mideast and have a "registered office" here that amounts to little more than a post office box or cubicle with an single secretary, which would bring no economic benefit to the region. Conversely, Honda might be denied a contract for government vehicles based on their corporate HQ being in Japan, even if the vehicles could be contracted for production at their Marysville, Ohio plant (or elsewhere in our region).

My only other concern is while the criteria you aim for in section 2 are laudable, the bill currently seems far too vague in establishing what levels of sustainable development, etc. will be demanded from businesses. The goal for 2010, for example, is 15% of what exactly?

Don't get me wrong: It's a good start. I just want to make sure I'm not fundamentally misreading this bill before I start offering amendments.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 09, 2009, 02:44:01 AM
You're welcome and right on both remarks.

The problem with the amount of products or services produced in the Mideast is that it may be hard to assess precisely. But rules can be set: location of factories, of HQ, of offices; location of sites on which the society intervenes (when she delivers outside services).
The text should be amended on this point, you're right.

As for the percentages, it must be better written, you're right too. The percentages apply to the amount of goods or services produced with the quoted standards (which are officially certified by specialized societies) and delivered to the public institution.

And my law English language may be weak. So, do not hesitate to make amendments on this too ;).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 11, 2009, 04:42:38 PM
Looks like good legislation to me. :) The changes suggested by Badger seems to be very sensible as well. All three of us seem to be rather united on this one.

Since there has been no further debate on this bill for well over 24 hours, I'd really like us to move forward quite soon. I presume Badger intends to prupose an amendment, and will therefor allow him some extra time to do so though.

 

 



 

 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 12, 2009, 02:56:32 AM
While our colleague Badger is working on amendments, I just want to ask my fellow assemblymen about the meaning they give to the word "Law" specified in our Constitution.

Does it refer to no specific level of legislation, or to constitutional level of legislation, or to legislative level of legislation ?

I don't want to misinterprete our supreme "rule" in my next proposals.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 13, 2009, 12:47:53 AM
Hi Guys:

Here's the problem: I'm going to be super busy with work and other real world matters for the next week. Tonight's bout with insomnia might be one of the few chances I have to work for more than a couple minutes on Atlasia stuff until at least next Monday or Tuesday. I would love to invest the time to properly offer amendments to make the bill sufficiently specific. It's stuff I'll need to sit and really think out for a spell!

So in the interim I propose 3 options:

1) Wait until next week. I'm sure my fellow Assemblymen, like me, abhor the idea of leaving the Assembly thread dormant that long.

2) Let you two take the lead in offering amendments, and I'll use what time I can spare to offer inevitable suggestions and nitpicking as only an American-trained lawyer can do. ;-)

3) We temporarily table this bill for a week and I'll offer the DUI bill I've been planning, as between it being close to my everyday job and having the language pretty much written in my head for a month now, I can spit it out in about 5-10 minutes. Plus, with the new national bill passed by the Senate, we need to pass changes to our regional DUI laws by NOV. 1 of this year or see federal highway funds cut off.

I figure a week should be enough time to pass that bill (hopefully) with relatively little time needed from me, then I can properly work on mutually acceptable amendments to the language of Fab's bill and we can move towards passing it. That should hopefully give Swede enough time to finish his economic development bill which, I suspect, is going to be the major legislation of this Assembly session.

I defer to you, my colleagues, on how we want to proceed here.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 13, 2009, 01:11:00 AM
FYI, I signed the last bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 13, 2009, 04:03:53 AM
If it's ok for BBF I wouldn't mind if we prosponed this bill to next week when you're back full time. This really isn't my area of expertise so I don't believe I'd personally be able to offer any good constructive amendments to it.

So I think it'd be better if we got your DUI out of the way this week (plus a small bill I'm planing to introduce) and then hit this current bill full power once your back. That way we'd be able to make sure this bill ends up being the best bill we could get, without the Assembly going into a coma for the whole week.

As this is BBF's bill though, I'll leave the decission to him. If he wants this done now, I promise to make sure we'll still end up with a great bill.


 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 13, 2009, 04:26:59 AM
If it's ok for BBF I wouldn't mind if we prosponed this bill to next week when you're back full time. This really isn't my area of expertise so I don't believe I'd personally be able to offer any good constructive amendments to it.

So I think it'd be better if we got your DUI out of the way this week (plus a small bill I'm planing to introduce) and then hit this current bill full power once your back. That way we'd be able to make sure this bill ends up being the best bill we could get, without the Assembly going into a coma for the whole week.

I agree.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 14, 2009, 03:25:54 PM
While our colleague Badger is working on amendments, I just want to ask my fellow assemblymen about the meaning they give to the word "Law" specified in our Constitution.

Does it refer to no specific level of legislation, or to constitutional level of legislation, or to legislative level of legislation ?

I don't want to misinterprete our supreme "rule" in my next proposals.

Don't forget my question !


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 14, 2009, 07:09:16 PM
If I forgot to mention it at the time, thanks Gov!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 14, 2009, 07:45:18 PM
MIDEAST DRUNK DRIVING REFORM BILL

1) The minimum fine for a first conviction under the existing Mideast DUI Statute is hereby raised to $500. The minimum fine for any second or more conviction under the Mideast DUI Statute is hereby raised to $1000.

2) After lawful arrest for DUI and proper request by a peace officer pursuant to Mideast law for chemical testing of the arrestee's breath, blood or urine, refusal by the arrestee to submit to chemical testing as requested is punishable by law.

3) The degree of offense and minimum and maximum penalties for violation of section 2 above shall be equivalent to penalties for violation of the Mideast DUI Statute.

4) To the extent that the degree of offense and minimum and maximum penalties are determined by the defendant's number of prior convictions, prior convictions of this statute and/or the Mideast DUI Statute are considered "prior convictions" for enhancing penalties for both this statute and the Mideast DUI Statute.

5) Prosecution or conviction under this statute does not preclude prosecution or conviction under the Mideast DUI Statute arising out of a single incident, but sentence may not be imposed for both offenses out of any one single incident.


This proposal accomplishes two things: First, it increases the minimum mandatory fines as required by federal statute signed by President Lief on 10/8/09 to continue receiving federal highway funding after 11/1/09.
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=102250.msg2166403#msg2166403

Secondly, the bill criminalizes refusing to submit to a breath test and the like after a lawful DUI arrest. I can attest that DUI offenders--especially repeat offenders--know the system and will frequently refuse the breathalyzer after arrest. Yes, they automatically lose their license under state implied consent laws, but if you know you've had too much to drink and are going to test over, then you're going to be convicted of DUI and lose your license anyway if you test. So defendants all too often refuse the test hoping their lawyer can get charges reduced without the clear cut evidence of a breath test result against them, or try their luck with a jury.

In sum, I submit that short of a rare circumstance like an asthmatic (more on that latter), OVI defendants give up their license by refusing breath tests for one reason: They're over the limit and know it. Allowing them to play games with the system perverts justice, is unfair to the Defendants who play by the rules and submit to a breath test (and are almost always convicted as a result) while defendants who refuse get off easy, and such refusals drastically burden the court system. The large majority of hearings and trials in Ohio, not to mention time spent on pretrial negotiations, are consumed by OVI refusal cases.

Y'know, before I go ahead and argue all the many many points as planned, I think I'll wait to see if there are other objections or questions regarding the bill first. :-)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 15, 2009, 12:17:22 AM
For section 3 - are the penalties the same as in the new bill or are you using the penalties from the original statute?  That seems like it needs clarification.

Other than that, it looks good.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 15, 2009, 01:44:59 AM
Quote
For section 3 - are the penalties the same as in the new bill or are you using the penalties from the original statute?  That seems like it needs clarification.

I think he's going for the new penalties. Personally I think it'd be slightly odd to have the old fines for section three, after raising them in section one, but I definatley see that it can be interpeted either way as it is now written.

It should probably be amended to read:
Quote
3) The degree of offense and minimum and maximum penalties for violation of section 2 above shall be equivalent to penalties for violation of the Mideast DUI Statute, as they're outlined by section 1 of this bill.


I couldn't find much to object about as far as this bill is concrned. To me there isn't any good arguments in favour of letting someone who's been arested get out of taking necessary tests to prove (or potentionally disprove) that person's crime. I was actually quite surprised the first time Badger told me that an arrested person in this region could refuse to coropurate in this manner, as I consider it a matter of course for our police to have the right to make these basic tests on persons who're on good grounds suspected for comiting a crime.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 15, 2009, 03:28:57 AM
Quote
For section 3 - are the penalties the same as in the new bill or are you using the penalties from the original statute?  That seems like it needs clarification.

I think he's going for the new penalties. Personally I think it'd be slightly odd to have the old fines for section three, after raising them in section one, but I definatley see that it can be interpeted either way as it is now written.

It should probably be amended to read:
Quote
3) The degree of offense and minimum and maximum penalties for violation of section 2 above shall be equivalent to penalties for violation of the Mideast DUI Statute, as they're outlined by section 1 of this bill.


I couldn't find much to object about as far as this bill is concrned. To me there isn't any good arguments in favour of letting someone who's been arested get out of taking necessary tests to prove (or potentionally disprove) that person's crime. I was actually quite surprised the first time Badger told me that an arrested person in this region could refuse to coropurate in this manner, as I consider it a matter of course for our police to have the right to make these basic tests on persons who're on good grounds suspected for comiting a crime.

I agree with my fellow assemblyman Sweedish Cheese.

It's a good, useful and necessary bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 15, 2009, 07:58:37 AM
Quote
For section 3 - are the penalties the same as in the new bill or are you using the penalties from the original statute?  That seems like it needs clarification.

I think he's going for the new penalties. Personally I think it'd be slightly odd to have the old fines for section three, after raising them in section one, but I definatley see that it can be interpeted either way as it is now written.

It should probably be amended to read:
Quote
3) The degree of offense and minimum and maximum penalties for violation of section 2 above shall be equivalent to penalties for violation of the Mideast DUI Statute, as they're outlined by section 1 of this bill.


I couldn't find much to object about as far as this bill is concrned. To me there isn't any good arguments in favour of letting someone who's been arested get out of taking necessary tests to prove (or potentionally disprove) that person's crime. I was actually quite surprised the first time Badger told me that an arrested person in this region could refuse to coropurate in this manner, as I consider it a matter of course for our police to have the right to make these basic tests on persons who're on good grounds suspected for comiting a crime.

I agree with my fellow assemblyman Sweedish Cheese.

It's a good, useful and necessary bill.

Thank all three of you for your support and observations. SC is correct in his interpretation of my intent for penalties to include the new federally mandated minimum mandatory fines. I accept his amendment as friendly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 15, 2009, 10:10:35 AM
In that case,  intend to sign the bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 15, 2009, 12:00:02 PM
Cool. In that case, as there appears to be unanimous support, unless there are any further questions, concerns, suggestions, amendments or debate, may I suggest Mr. Speaker we move this to a vote soon?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 15, 2009, 01:56:31 PM
Cool. In that case, as there appears to be unanimous support, unless there are any further questions, concerns, suggestions, amendments or debate, may I suggest Mr. Speaker we move this to a vote soon?

Unless there is no further debate I will be able to start a vote tomorrow around 3.00 pm. (9.00 am your time) When it has passed 24 hours since debating on the bill stopped.

But since we seem to be pretty much done on this subject I can probably introduce this:

Tie Vote Clerification Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

 The following clause shall be added to Section 2, Article III, of the Third Mideast Constitution.

7.   Should the Assembly split evenly on an issue, with one Assemblyman voting in favour of the presented legislation, one against, and one abstain, and thereby creating a tie, the Governor shall be given the power to vote to break that tie.



So the reason for this amendment is that before when I was reading up on our constitution, I couldn't find any clear rules of how exactly a tie in the Assembly is supposed to be broken. Since that could potentionally be a problem in the future, I'd really like there to be an amendment clearifying how such a situation should be dealt with.

Since we don't have a Lt Governor, I thought we might as well give the power to the Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 15, 2009, 02:01:34 PM
Then we should bring the Lt. Governor position back. That is a spot that usually goes to the Lt. Governor. I don't see why we don't have one. Barnes has shown that Lt. Governor's can be very active, and make a difference in their region.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on October 15, 2009, 02:03:41 PM
I personally think that either the third assemblyman must make a choice or the bill simply fail on that basis.  This solution I think would give too much power to the Governor.  We must preserve seperation of powers.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 15, 2009, 02:05:33 PM
I personally think that either the third assemblyman must make a choice or the bill simply fail on that basis.  This solution I think would give too much power to the Governor.  We must preserve seperation of powers.
But, what is we had an assemblyman on vacation? Then we'd have to hold the bill up. I don't really agree with "forcing" someone to vote "Aye" or "Nay". If we do that, why don't we just ban voting "Abstain" all together?
Bring back the Lt. Governor position. It's the easiest option.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 15, 2009, 03:03:27 PM
I personally think that either the third assemblyman must make a choice or the bill simply fail on that basis.  This solution I think would give too much power to the Governor.  We must preserve seperation of powers.

I agree.  Although separation of powers really isn't at stake here.  Either the governor votes in favor of it, and signs it and it passes, or he doesn't vote for it, and it doesn't pass, and obviously it wouldn't have passed a veto override anyway.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 15, 2009, 03:53:14 PM
I personally think that either the third assemblyman must make a choice or the bill simply fail on that basis.  This solution I think would give too much power to the Governor.  We must preserve seperation of powers.

I agree.  Although separation of powers really isn't at stake here.  Either the governor votes in favor of it, and signs it and it passes, or he doesn't vote for it, and it doesn't pass, and obviously it wouldn't have passed a veto override anyway.

Yep that was my thinking as well. It's really up to the Governor at that point anyway as he'll end up making a decission to weather he shall sign it or not, so he might as well be able to break the tie when he's at it anyway.

Although I see your concern HW. My plan B would be to have the people vote by referendum when the Assembly ends up in a tie. Although I think that would be to do a simple thing overly complicated.

Personally I don't think it's a good idea to force someone to make up their mind, and have them vote either Aye or Nay. And to make it so that a proposal fails automaticly if there's a tie, will make an Abstain vote a Nay in everything but the name. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on October 15, 2009, 05:03:21 PM
I personally think that either the third assemblyman must make a choice or the bill simply fail on that basis.  This solution I think would give too much power to the Governor.  We must preserve seperation of powers.

I agree.  Although separation of powers really isn't at stake here.  Either the governor votes in favor of it, and signs it and it passes, or he doesn't vote for it, and it doesn't pass, and obviously it wouldn't have passed a veto override anyway.

Yep that was my thinking as well. It's really up to the Governor at that point anyway as he'll end up making a decission to weather he shall sign it or not, so he might as well be able to break the tie when he's at it anyway.

Although I see your concern HW. My plan B would be to have the people vote by referendum when the Assembly ends up in a tie. Although I think that would be to do a simple thing overly complicated.

Personally I don't think it's a good idea to force someone to make up their mind, and have them vote either Aye or Nay. And to make it so that a proposal fails automaticly if there's a tie, will make an Abstain vote a Nay in everything but the name. 

I like the referendum idea.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 15, 2009, 08:34:13 PM
I personally think that either the third assemblyman must make a choice or the bill simply fail on that basis.  This solution I think would give too much power to the Governor.  We must preserve seperation of powers.

I agree.  Although separation of powers really isn't at stake here.  Either the governor votes in favor of it, and signs it and it passes, or he doesn't vote for it, and it doesn't pass, and obviously it wouldn't have passed a veto override anyway.

Yep that was my thinking as well. It's really up to the Governor at that point anyway as he'll end up making a decission to weather he shall sign it or not, so he might as well be able to break the tie when he's at it anyway.

Although I see your concern HW. My plan B would be to have the people vote by referendum when the Assembly ends up in a tie. Although I think that would be to do a simple thing overly complicated.

Personally I don't think it's a good idea to force someone to make up their mind, and have them vote either Aye or Nay. And to make it so that a proposal fails automatically if there's a tie, will make an Abstain vote a Nay in everything but the name. 

I like the referendum idea.

Hmmm...... A mandatory referendum when the vote is tied? Citizens already can propose a referendum on a matter with 25% of registered voters' support, so I'm not sure about this plan. Tell me, SC, what do you believe would be the advantage of a tie assembly vote going to referendum automatically as opposed to allowing a fourth of registered voters to petition it on the ballot?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Alexander Hamilton on October 15, 2009, 09:16:13 PM
I personally think that either the third assemblyman must make a choice or the bill simply fail on that basis.  This solution I think would give too much power to the Governor.  We must preserve seperation of powers.

I agree.  Although separation of powers really isn't at stake here.  Either the governor votes in favor of it, and signs it and it passes, or he doesn't vote for it, and it doesn't pass, and obviously it wouldn't have passed a veto override anyway.

Yep that was my thinking as well. It's really up to the Governor at that point anyway as he'll end up making a decission to weather he shall sign it or not, so he might as well be able to break the tie when he's at it anyway.

Although I see your concern HW. My plan B would be to have the people vote by referendum when the Assembly ends up in a tie. Although I think that would be to do a simple thing overly complicated.

Personally I don't think it's a good idea to force someone to make up their mind, and have them vote either Aye or Nay. And to make it so that a proposal fails automatically if there's a tie, will make an Abstain vote a Nay in everything but the name. 

I like the referendum idea.

Hmmm...... A mandatory referendum when the vote is tied? Citizens already can propose a referendum on a matter with 25% of registered voters' support, so I'm not sure about this plan. Tell me, SC, what do you believe would be the advantage of a tie assembly vote going to referendum automatically as opposed to allowing a fourth of registered voters to petition it on the ballot?

Maybe you guys just need a bigger Assembly. 5 is a good number.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 16, 2009, 01:49:56 AM
I personally think that either the third assemblyman must make a choice or the bill simply fail on that basis.  This solution I think would give too much power to the Governor.  We must preserve seperation of powers.

I agree.  Although separation of powers really isn't at stake here.  Either the governor votes in favor of it, and signs it and it passes, or he doesn't vote for it, and it doesn't pass, and obviously it wouldn't have passed a veto override anyway.

Yep that was my thinking as well. It's really up to the Governor at that point anyway as he'll end up making a decission to weather he shall sign it or not, so he might as well be able to break the tie when he's at it anyway.

Although I see your concern HW. My plan B would be to have the people vote by referendum when the Assembly ends up in a tie. Although I think that would be to do a simple thing overly complicated.

Personally I don't think it's a good idea to force someone to make up their mind, and have them vote either Aye or Nay. And to make it so that a proposal fails automaticly if there's a tie, will make an Abstain vote a Nay in everything but the name. 

That could easily be abused.  Take this example: Controversial Bill 1234 is supported by 2 assemblymen, and perhaps a majority of the people but opposed by the Governor.  One Assemblyman forces a tie so that the bill is sent to the people, bypassing the Governor because the Assembly wouldn't override his veto.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 16, 2009, 02:22:33 AM
The problem is, indeed, to have only 3 assemblymen.
5 is indeed a good number: it remains manageable, it remains easy to find 5 Atlasians ready to work in the Assembly and it makes ties far, far less likely.

I'd be ready to agree on 5 assemblymen but only with a change in our electoral system.
The problem is, I won't be able to make a proposal on this in the days to come.

If my fellow assemblymen think we should approve a constitutional amendment on this subject quickly, it would be better to reinstate a Lt. Governor, nominated by the Governor and with a confirmation vote by the Assembly. Indeed, we need a "consensus" man, precisely able to break a tie in a clever manner and after having tried to reach an agreement with everybody.

If we do not think we need to decide quickly on the subject (and I don't think we need, as few bills were recently blocked by a tied situation), I'll soon propose to create 2 more assemblymen and I'll propose a new electoral system.

Any idea of a referendum to break a tie must be rejected. The Assembly is already the people's will in legislative matters. And our Governor's remark is right.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 16, 2009, 05:56:14 AM
Quote
Hmmm...... A mandatory referendum when the vote is tied? Citizens already can propose a referendum on a matter with 25% of registered voters' support, so I'm not sure about this plan. Tell me, SC, what do you believe would be the advantage of a tie assembly vote going to referendum automatically as opposed to allowing a fourth of registered voters to petition it on the ballot?

25 % of all  the Regions registered members are not a small number. So it's not the most simple thing to get that many posters to sign a petention for it be put on a ballot. I know it was done whith the latest Abortion Statue, but besides that I haven't heard of someting ever getting enough support to be put up for a vote. 

My thinking on the referendum idea was that, well if the Assembly can't make up their mind, we should ask the people who they're representing what they think.

As I said though, I think that might be to make something as simple as a tie overly complicated, and would therefore prefer if we just allowed the Governor to break a tie.   

Quote
That could easily be abused.  Take this example: Controversial Bill 1234 is supported by 2 assemblymen, and perhaps a majority of the people but opposed by the Governor.  One Assemblyman forces a tie so that the bill is sent to the people, bypassing the Governor because the Assembly wouldn't override his veto.

Oh I didn't think of that, but you are indeed correct that it could be troublesome, if it's abused in the manner which you described. In light of this I'll really have to reconsider if it's a good idea after all.

Quote
The problem is, indeed, to have only 3 assemblymen.
5 is indeed a good number: it remains manageable, it remains easy to find 5 Atlasians ready to work in the Assembly and it makes ties far, far less likely.

Two Ayes, two Nays, and one Abstain is as likely as one Aye, one Nay, and one Abstain. The Senate, with their ten members, far more often tie on an issue than we do in the Assembly. So I don't think the seize of the Assembly will have much effect.

I wouldn't be entierly opposed to growing the Assembly with one or two more seats, although I have my reservation. I believe that is an entierly different question though, which deserves it's own proposal and its own time.

Quote
If my fellow assemblymen think we should approve a constitutional amendment on this subject quickly, it would be better to reinstate a Lt. Governor, nominated by the Governor and with a confirmation vote by the Assembly. Indeed, we need a "consensus" man, precisely able to break a tie in a clever manner and after having tried to reach an agreement with everybody

Personally I don't really see the need for a Lt. Governor. There was a reason we got rid of this office in the first place. The very few responsibilities that Lt. Governors usually have in other regions is here held by the Speaker. Thus the only function he'd have is to break ties, and although I think it's important we get clerification on how to handle ties, they still only happen as often as snow in Mississippi. So we'd have an entire political office, who'd just exist to break a tie once or twice a year.

Besides, if the Lt. is nominated by the Governor, he will most likely have the same oppinion on most issues as him. And even if they would disagree, the Governor would just veto the legislation if it passed, so the result would still be the same as if we simply gave the power to the Governor himself.

I'm open to hearing more arguments in favour of the Lt. Governorship though.

PS: Nice to see some lively debate taking place here again :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 16, 2009, 08:01:53 AM
Quote
MIDEAST DRUNK DRIVING REFORM BILL

1) The minimum fine for a first conviction under the existing Mideast DUI Statute is hereby raised to $500. The minimum fine for any second or more conviction under the Mideast DUI Statute is hereby raised to $1000.

2) After lawful arrest for DUI and proper request by a peace officer pursuant to Mideast law for chemical testing of the arrestee's breath, blood or urine, refusal by the arrestee to submit to chemical testing as requested is punishable by law.

3) The degree of offense and minimum and maximum penalties for violation of section 2 above shall be equivalent to penalties for violation of the Mideast DUI Statute, as they're outlined by section 1 of this bill.

4) To the extent that the degree of offense and minimum and maximum penalties are determined by the defendant's number of prior convictions, prior convictions of this statute and/or the Mideast DUI Statute are considered "prior convictions" for enhancing penalties for both this statute and the Mideast DUI Statute.

5) Prosecution or conviction under this statute does not preclude prosecution or conviction under the Mideast DUI Statute arising out of a single incident, but sentence may not be imposed for both offenses out of any one single incident.

Since there has been no  debate on this issue for 24 hours I call for a vote on this bill.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 16, 2009, 09:07:34 AM
MIDEAST DRUNK DRIVING REFORM BILL

1) The minimum fine for a first conviction under the existing Mideast DUI Statute is hereby raised to $500. The minimum fine for any second or more conviction under the Mideast DUI Statute is hereby raised to $1000.

2) After lawful arrest for DUI and proper request by a peace officer pursuant to Mideast law for chemical testing of the arrestee's breath, blood or urine, refusal by the arrestee to submit to chemical testing as requested is punishable by law.

3) The degree of offense and minimum and maximum penalties for violation of section 2 above shall be equivalent to penalties for violation of the Mideast DUI Statute, as they're outlined by section 1 of this bill.

4) To the extent that the degree of offense and minimum and maximum penalties are determined by the defendant's number of prior convictions, prior convictions of this statute and/or the Mideast DUI Statute are considered "prior convictions" for enhancing penalties for both this statute and the Mideast DUI Statute.

5) Prosecution or conviction under this statute does not preclude prosecution or conviction under the Mideast DUI Statute arising out of a single incident, but sentence may not be imposed for both offenses out of any one single incident.[/quote]



AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 16, 2009, 09:24:40 AM
Quote
Hmmm...... A mandatory referendum when the vote is tied? Citizens already can propose a referendum on a matter with 25% of registered voters' support, so I'm not sure about this plan. Tell me, SC, what do you believe would be the advantage of a tie assembly vote going to referendum automatically as opposed to allowing a fourth of registered voters to petition it on the ballot?

25 % of all  the Regions registered members are not a small number. So it's not the most simple thing to get that many posters to sign a petention for it be put on a ballot. I know it was done whith the latest Abortion Statue, but besides that I haven't heard of someting ever getting enough support to be put up for a vote. 

My thinking on the referendum idea was that, well if the Assembly can't make up their mind, we should ask the people who they're representing what they think.

As I said though, I think that might be to make something as simple as a tie overly complicated, and would therefore prefer if we just allowed the Governor to break a tie. 

My thinking is that, if the Assembly can't make up its mind, that's because the idea isn't "mature" and the bill should wait.
Referendum are for big subjects, for constitutional and Rights issues, even for emergency situations, not for "usual" legislation.


Quote
That could easily be abused.  Take this example: Controversial Bill 1234 is supported by 2 assemblymen, and perhaps a majority of the people but opposed by the Governor.  One Assemblyman forces a tie so that the bill is sent to the people, bypassing the Governor because the Assembly wouldn't override his veto.

Oh I didn't think of that, but you are indeed correct that it could be troublesome, if it's abused in the manner which you described. In light of this I'll really have to reconsider if it's a good idea after all.


This remark is indeed a big one and that's why I don't agree with your proposal.


Quote
The problem is, indeed, to have only 3 assemblymen.
5 is indeed a good number: it remains manageable, it remains easy to find 5 Atlasians ready to work in the Assembly and it makes ties far, far less likely.

Two Ayes, two Nays, and one Abstain is as likely as one Aye, one Nay, and one Abstain. The Senate, with their ten members, far more often tie on an issue than we do in the Assembly. So I don't think the seize of the Assembly will have much effect.

I wouldn't be entierly opposed to growing the Assembly with one or two more seats, although I have my reservation. I believe that is an entierly different question though, which deserves it's own proposal and its own time.


Statistically, with 5, you have lesser risks to have a tie... ;D But, you're right, contrarian examples are numerous. And, well, you may say that 7 is better than 5, etc.
I think 5 is a good compromise between a manageable assembly and a more representative assembly.

Nevertheless, I didn't intend to propose such a change very soon.


Quote
If my fellow assemblymen think we should approve a constitutional amendment on this subject quickly, it would be better to reinstate a Lt. Governor, nominated by the Governor and with a confirmation vote by the Assembly. Indeed, we need a "consensus" man, precisely able to break a tie in a clever manner and after having tried to reach an agreement with everybody

Personally I don't really see the need for a Lt. Governor. There was a reason we got rid of this office in the first place. The very few responsibilities that Lt. Governors usually have in other regions is here held by the Speaker. Thus the only function he'd have is to break ties, and although I think it's important we get clerification on how to handle ties, they still only happen as often as snow in Mississippi. So we'd have an entire political office, who'd just exist to break a tie once or twice a year.

Besides, if the Lt. is nominated by the Governor, he will most likely have the same oppinion on most issues as him. And even if they would disagree, the Governor would just veto the legislation if it passed, so the result would still be the same as if we simply gave the power to the Governor himself.

I'm open to hearing more arguments in favour of the Lt. Governorship though.

PS: Nice to see some lively debate taking place here again :)

The Lt. Gov. would be nominated by the Gov. but confirmed by the assembly. So, they wouldn't be just "bonnet blanc et blanc bonnet". But, of course, he could be chosen by the universal suffrage.

The Lt. Gov. would replace the Gov. in case of vacation or even small leaves of absence. I haven't been here for a long time, but I'm sure the problem has arisen even in the Mideast region and even with our current great Governor.

The Lt. Gov. could be in charge of gathering information for the Assembly when in debate and of periodically assessing legislation.

He could be in charge to follow national legislation, to see which must be transposed or adapted in the region.
He could be in charge to update the Wiki pages on the Mideast, or at least to help the Governor in doing it (especially the Statute pages).

I haven't intended to start a big debate or a big reform on this, but such an office could be made easily useful.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 16, 2009, 11:24:40 AM
RE: DUI Reform Bill Vote:

AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on October 16, 2009, 12:36:37 PM
We abolished the position of Lt. Governor for a reason. I would rather see it remain dead until there is a clear need and a much higher level of activity than we currently have. Creating more positions simply reduces competitive elections, which is really the point of the game.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 16, 2009, 01:37:49 PM
To go back on the tie breaker / referendum idea...I think it'd be acceptable if you give the Governor the option to veto the bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 16, 2009, 04:25:21 PM
I personally think that either the third assemblyman must make a choice or the bill simply fail on that basis.  This solution I think would give too much power to the Governor.  We must preserve seperation of powers.

I agree.  Although separation of powers really isn't at stake here.  Either the governor votes in favor of it, and signs it and it passes, or he doesn't vote for it, and it doesn't pass, and obviously it wouldn't have passed a veto override anyway.
But it does notably increase the power of the governor in that he could then get a bill he supports passed without 2 aye votes. I believe that is unnecessary and unstabilizes the balance between assembly and governor.

I think bringing back the Lt. Governor position is the epitome of adding a fifth wheel to a car. Let's get much more active before considering refounding a position who's only official duties would be to break ties.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 16, 2009, 04:31:30 PM
To go back on the tie breaker / referendum idea...I think it'd be acceptable if you give the Governor the option to veto the bill.

By "option to veto the bill" do you mean the power to prevent the bill from being submitted for referendum after a tied assembly vote?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on October 16, 2009, 04:51:26 PM
A tied vote should fail. A vote of 1 Aye, 1 Nay and 1 Abstain is the equivalent of 1 Aye and 2 Nay in that case, but if a bill cannot garner majority support it shouldn't pass. I believe that was the logic in place when we removed the position of Lt. Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on October 16, 2009, 05:29:26 PM

More people need to use this expression.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on October 16, 2009, 05:35:53 PM

A quick google tells me I have no idea what that means. Although from BBF's context I imagine it has something to do with "doing something for the sake of doing it."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 17, 2009, 10:36:09 AM
Quote
MIDEAST DRUNK DRIVING REFORM BILL

1) The minimum fine for a first conviction under the existing Mideast DUI Statute is hereby raised to $500. The minimum fine for any second or more conviction under the Mideast DUI Statute is hereby raised to $1000.

2) After lawful arrest for DUI and proper request by a peace officer pursuant to Mideast law for chemical testing of the arrestee's breath, blood or urine, refusal by the arrestee to submit to chemical testing as requested is punishable by law.

3) The degree of offense and minimum and maximum penalties for violation of section 2 above shall be equivalent to penalties for violation of the Mideast DUI Statute, as they're outlined by section 1 of this bill.

4) To the extent that the degree of offense and minimum and maximum penalties are determined by the defendant's number of prior convictions, prior convictions of this statute and/or the Mideast DUI Statute are considered "prior convictions" for enhancing penalties for both this statute and the Mideast DUI Statute.

5) Prosecution or conviction under this statute does not preclude prosecution or conviction under the Mideast DUI Statute arising out of a single incident, but sentence may not be imposed for both offenses out of any one single incident.

Since there has been no  debate on this issue for 24 hours I call for a vote on this bill.

  Aye

The Ayes have it. The bill is transmitted to the Governor's office for his signature or veto.

 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 17, 2009, 11:20:21 AM
I have been pondering the referendum idea, and I think Inks is right that it could be very easily abused, and since no one else seem to be that enthustiastic about it either, I think we should scratch that idea.

Since most peopel don't seem that happy about giving the Governor the power either, I believe that leaves us with the following opptions:

a) Give the power to break a tie to our Regional Senator, which was something I thought of yesterday that could work.

b) A tie means the proposal automaticly fails (this is how it is now)

c) We recreate the office of Lt. Governor.

As I've said, I'm not a huge fan of either b) or c)

We abolished the position of Lt. Governor for a reason. I would rather see it remain dead until there is a clear need and a much higher level of activity than we currently have. Creating more positions simply reduces competitive elections, which is really the point of the game.

 ^^^ This pretty well sums up my view on the Lt. Governor issue.

Quote
The Lt. Gov. would replace the Gov. in case of vacation or even small leaves of absence. I haven't been here for a long time, but I'm sure the problem has arisen even in the Mideast region and even with our current great Governor.

That problem does indeed happen in the Mideast too. Instead of a Lt Governor however, here most of the powers and duties of the Governorship are transferred to the Speaker. So incase Inks would leave for vaccation, I'd be in charge until his return.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 17, 2009, 12:00:26 PM

A quick google tells me I have no idea what that means. Although from BBF's context I imagine it has something to do with "doing something for the sake of doing it."

Sorry. It means that two things, two persons, are the same thing, the same person or would have the same consequences, the same policies, despite seeming to be different or even opposed.

The communist candidate said that about Pompidou and Poher in 1969 French presidential election. In the run-off there were only the centre-right and the gaullist candidates. So, for the PCF, this was equally evil and they abstain or vote blank.



Anyway, Sweedish, your a) idea must be discussed, but I don't think that's a good one, as our regional Senator is elected to deal with national matters, after a strictly political election, with national stakes.

b) pleases me, because it means that a bill should be widely supported to pass and that's a way to oblige us to seek consensus.
And, well, 5 assemblymen would be better: if it's 2 ayes, 1 no, 2 abstain for example ;).

Sorry for being a bit inactive, but family, gardening, wood (and woods...), wines and food make me busy this week-end again ;).
I'll be back on Monday with some proposals.


BTW, Badger, do you want me to post some amendments to my Public Procurement Policy Bill or do you still intend to put some forward ?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 17, 2009, 03:27:20 PM

A quick google tells me I have no idea what that means. Although from BBF's context I imagine it has something to do with "doing something for the sake of doing it."

Sorry. It means that two things, two persons, are the same thing, the same person or would have the same consequences, the same policies, despite seeming to be different or even opposed.

The communist candidate said that about Pompidou and Poher in 1969 French presidential election. In the run-off there were only the centre-right and the gaullist candidates. So, for the PCF, this was equally evil and they abstain or vote blank.



Anyway, Sweedish, your a) idea must be discussed, but I don't think that's a good one, as our regional Senator is elected to deal with national matters, after a strictly political election, with national stakes.

b) pleases me, because it means that a bill should be widely supported to pass and that's a way to oblige us to seek consensus.
And, well, 5 assemblymen would be better: if it's 2 ayes, 1 no, 2 abstain for example ;).

Sorry for being a bit inactive, but family, gardening, wood (and woods...), wines and food make me busy this week-end again ;).
I'll be back on Monday with some proposals.


BTW, Badger, do you want me to post some amendments to my Public Procurement Policy Bill or do you still intend to put some forward ?
Both! ;-)

Mine won't come until after the weekend; Wednesday at latest I hope.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 17, 2009, 06:34:12 PM
I have been pondering the referendum idea, and I think Inks is right that it could be very easily abused, and since no one else seem to be that enthustiastic about it either, I think we should scratch that idea.

Since most peopel don't seem that happy about giving the Governor the power either, I believe that leaves us with the following opptions:

a) Give the power to break a tie to our Regional Senator, which was something I thought of yesterday that could work.

b) A tie means the proposal automaticly fails (this is how it is now)

c) We recreate the office of Lt. Governor.

As I've said, I'm not a huge fan of either b) or c)
 

Nor I

A tied vote should fail. A vote of 1 Aye, 1 Nay and 1 Abstain is the equivalent of 1 Aye and 2 Nay in that case, but if a bill cannot garner majority support it shouldn't pass. I believe that was the logic in place when we removed the position of Lt. Governor.

While I believe defering to the elected federal senator is an interesting idea, and at least as good as the auto-referendum idea which was also ok, I have to say I'm leaning towards PS's statement above.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 19, 2009, 03:55:21 AM
I'd like to make some amendments (directly in the text) to my earlier proposal:


Public procurement policy Bill:

1. The government and all public institutions of the Mideast, when they intend to purchase goods, works or services, shall make a call for tenders. In their call, they shall explain the consistence of goods, works or services required, the cost estimate, the ceiling set for public spending, the process for bidding, the information required from the bidders, the criterias set to be selected.

2. Among the criterias set to select among the bidders the one who will provide the goods, works or services, the public institution shall include the compliance with existing standards and labels of sustainable development, organic agriculture and environmental quality.
This criteria shall be the first one in 15% of calls for tenders in 2010, in 30% in 2012, in 50% in 2014, in 65% in 2016, in 75% in 2018 and in 90% in 2020 and thereafter.

3. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for businesses whose production, employees or registered office are is located in the Mideast.
When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, the business whose production is the most located in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose employees are the most numerous to work in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose registered office is located in the Mideast.

4. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for small and middle-sized businesses. When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, including those set in clause 3, and when they are both located in the Mideast, the smaller business shall be selected. The size of a business shall be set in the call for tenders, by a mix between the number of people employed by the business and the amount of its sales.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 19, 2009, 04:29:15 AM
Even if I know there is already a debate on an Amendment proposed by our respected Speaker, and because our session isn't a very long one,

I wish to introduce the following constitutional amendment proposal to the Assembly:

Reinforcement of Rights Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

I. The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  No person shall be denied of Life without due process of Constitutional Law. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."

II. The words "private properties," are included after the word "houses," in the clause 11. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution.

III. The clause 13. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"13. Private property shall not be used for private use of other people without Constitutional Law allowing it. Private property shall not be taken for public use, without just compensation set by Law."

IV. The clause 18. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"18. All persons under eighteen shall have the right to a publicly funded, well-balanced education. All persons under fourteen are required to receive education along lines and minimal requirements set by Law, in public or private institutions or in families."



The hierarchy of legal rules (is that the right phrase for "hiérarchie des normes" ?) should be better written in our Bill of Rights, especially for Life and Private Property. Hence my proposals:

My first aim is here to constitutionalize the protection given to Life. The death penalty should be authorized only by a constitutional level of Law, not only a legislative level.

My second aim is to give a greater protection to private property, as I think it's a sacred principle, as stated, for example, in the French Bill of Rights and Declaration of Human Rights (Déclaration des Droits de l'Homme et du Citoyen de 1789).
So, reducing private property for public use would always be allowed by legislative ruling. However, reducing private property for another private use should be possible only by constitutional law.

My third aim is to state that education is compulsory until the age of 14. Of course this education can be given in public, private institutions or in families. But every child should be protected in this need to receive a proper education.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 19, 2009, 07:51:59 AM
I'd like to make some amendments (directly in the text) to my earlier proposal:


Public procurement policy Bill:

1. The government and all public institutions of the Mideast, when they intend to purchase goods, works or services, shall make a call for tenders. In their call, they shall explain the consistence of goods, works or services required, the cost estimate, the ceiling set for public spending, the process for bidding, the information required from the bidders, the criterias set to be selected.

2. Among the criterias set to select among the bidders the one who will provide the goods, works or services, the public institution shall include the compliance with existing standards and labels of sustainable development, organic agriculture and environmental quality.
This criteria shall be the first one in 15% of calls for tenders in 2010, in 30% in 2012, in 50% in 2014, in 65% in 2016, in 75% in 2018 and in 90% in 2020 and thereafter.

3. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for businesses whose production, employees or registered office are is located in the Mideast.
When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, the business whose production is the most located in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose employees are the most numerous to work in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose registered office is located in the Mideast.

4. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for small and middle-sized businesses. When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, including those set in clause 3, and when they are both located in the Mideast, the smaller business shall be selected. The size of a business shall be set in the call for tenders, by a mix between the number of people employed by the business and the amount of its sales.


A good start. You may want to amend the phrase "or registered office" to "and registered office" to avoid the problems and loopholes I mentioned earlier.

I promise, baring some sudden event at work or home, to propose some amendments by Wednesday, particularly to flesh out some of the standards criteria in Section 2.

Again, good improvement here Fab.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 19, 2009, 01:44:01 PM
To go back on the tie breaker / referendum idea...I think it'd be acceptable if you give the Governor the option to veto the bill.

By "option to veto the bill" do you mean the power to prevent the bill from being submitted for referendum after a tied assembly vote?

No - I mean some way so that if the bill goes from tie vote to referendum, it still has to then go to the Governor's desk where he can either sign it or veto it.  Otherwise, it leaves the Governor completely out of hte process.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on October 19, 2009, 02:12:43 PM
To go back on the tie breaker / referendum idea...I think it'd be acceptable if you give the Governor the option to veto the bill.

By "option to veto the bill" do you mean the power to prevent the bill from being submitted for referendum after a tied assembly vote?

No - I mean some way so that if the bill goes from tie vote to referendum, it still has to then go to the Governor's desk where he can either sign it or veto it.  Otherwise, it leaves the Governor completely out of hte process.

I am reluctant to give the Governor the power to reject the voice of the people.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on October 19, 2009, 02:24:19 PM
To go back on the tie breaker / referendum idea...I think it'd be acceptable if you give the Governor the option to veto the bill.

By "option to veto the bill" do you mean the power to prevent the bill from being submitted for referendum after a tied assembly vote?

No - I mean some way so that if the bill goes from tie vote to referendum, it still has to then go to the Governor's desk where he can either sign it or veto it.  Otherwise, it leaves the Governor completely out of hte process.

I am reluctant to give the Governor the power to reject the voice of the people.

I am in total agreement with Purple State on this issue.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 19, 2009, 03:10:21 PM
Garrghhh!!!

I just wrote a long post, but my computer effed up and froze when I was working on the last paragraph, and it was lost. *Sigh*

Too tired to retype it again right now, so I hope you all forgive me if I wait until tomorrow before I try to comment on the new debate and the newly introduced legislation.

Sorry :(

 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 20, 2009, 11:25:23 AM
To go back on the tie breaker / referendum idea...I think it'd be acceptable if you give the Governor the option to veto the bill.

By "option to veto the bill" do you mean the power to prevent the bill from being submitted for referendum after a tied assembly vote?

No - I mean some way so that if the bill goes from tie vote to referendum, it still has to then go to the Governor's desk where he can either sign it or veto it.  Otherwise, it leaves the Governor completely out of hte process.

I am reluctant to give the Governor the power to reject the voice of the people.

But you see the problem?  If the Assembly knows the Governor will veto something and they don't have the power to override it, one person can just not vote and hope that it passes as a referendum, and then the Governor never gets a say on the bill.  IT completely leaves the Governor out of the process.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 20, 2009, 01:48:42 PM
I do not think the Governor should have the power to veto a bill the voters clearly approved in a referendum. But neither do I want to create a system that would allow future, more mischiveus aseemblymen to abuse it for their own political agenda.

That's why I dropped the referendum idea, because at a closer examination, it doesn't appear to be as good of an idea as I first thought.

Although I'd prefer there to be some tie-breaker in one form or another, it is not my main goal with this legislation. What I truely want is for the rules of how to deal with a tie to be more clearly distiguished in the constitution. Maybe it has to do with me not being a native English speaker (or maybe I'm just a bit slow :P) but I had to re-read the constitution several times before I understod how the rules actually worked, and even then I didn't feel 100 % sure. So I'd be more than willing to compromise with the idea that a tie means the legislation fails, as long as we have an amendment  that more clearly states that this is in fact the rules for this kind of situation, in order to avoid future confusion.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 20, 2009, 02:30:58 PM
Moving on...

Reinforcement of Rights Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

I. The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  No person shall be denied of Life without due process of Constitutional Law. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."

II. The words "private properties," are included after the word "houses," in the clause 11. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution.

III. The clause 13. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"13. Private property shall not be used for private use of other people without Constitutional Law allowing it. Private property shall not be taken for public use, without just compensation set by Law."

IV. The clause 18. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"18. All persons under eighteen shall have the right to a publicly funded, well-balanced education. All persons under fourteen are required to receive education along lines and minimal requirements set by Law, in public or private institutions or in families."

Much of this amendment I like very much, while other parts I feel more uncertain about.

I'm against the death penalty and think it is a good idea to have it banned not only by common law, but also by the regional constitution.

I'm even more positive on strengthening our citizens' right to education. It is with knowlage and education we build a modern nation. (Hey that rhymes) That our people is well-educated is esential to the well being and prosperity for us as a country. Therefore I fully support this, and I wouldn't even mind to make fifteen or sixteen the youngest age of which you are legally allowed to drop out of school.   

Now to what I feel more doubtful about... You and me obviously have a slightly different view on certain elements of property right, as discovered during the whole Freedom to Roam debate. So I'm not certain if these paragraphs are something I can support.

I'd also like to say that I think it was probably a good idea to introduce this at the same time as the other amendment is being discussed, because if they pass around the same time, we will be able to have both laws up for referendum at the same time in stead on different occations :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 21, 2009, 04:44:24 AM
Basically, private property can be protected by the Constitution when there are conflicting private interests. The legislative level can still infringe private property for public interests.

Of course, the Freedom to Roam bill makes me re-read our Bill of Rights and I've compared it with the French Declaration of Human Rights, which is a really both protective and liberal -in the old sense- document.

Of course, this is more a philosophical than law problem. I think it's essential for a society to protect privacy, and private property is essential to it. It's, among other things, a way to provide quietness and security in families in the long term. And that's the better thing to allow people to concentrate on one of their most important task, to breed respectful and integrated children, so preparing a more peaceful future for the whole society.

As for education, we shouldn't set a too low age, because we need to let professional and specialized educations be possible. So, 14 seems to be a good compromise for "general" education.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 21, 2009, 08:51:47 PM
Grrr. Stupid real world responsibilities.

OK. Amendments proposed tomorrow I swear.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on October 22, 2009, 12:46:31 AM
To go back on the tie breaker / referendum idea...I think it'd be acceptable if you give the Governor the option to veto the bill.

By "option to veto the bill" do you mean the power to prevent the bill from being submitted for referendum after a tied assembly vote?

No - I mean some way so that if the bill goes from tie vote to referendum, it still has to then go to the Governor's desk where he can either sign it or veto it.  Otherwise, it leaves the Governor completely out of hte process.

I am reluctant to give the Governor the power to reject the voice of the people.

But you see the problem?  If the Assembly knows the Governor will veto something and they don't have the power to override it, one person can just not vote and hope that it passes as a referendum, and then the Governor never gets a say on the bill.  IT completely leaves the Governor out of the process.

I agree with your point as well, which is why I believe the status quo is perfectly acceptable. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 22, 2009, 10:57:04 AM
Public procurement policy Bill:

1. The government and all public institutions of the Mideast, when they intend to purchase goods, works or services, shall make a call for tenders. In their call, they shall explain the consistence of goods, works or services required, the cost estimate, the ceiling set for public spending, the process for bidding, the information required from the bidders, the criterias set to be selected.

2. Among the criterias set to select among the bidders the one who will provide the goods, works or services, the public institution shall include the compliance with existing standards and labels of sustainable development, organic agriculture and environmental quality.
This criteria shall be the first one in 15% of calls for tenders in 2010, in 30% in 2012, in 50% in 2014, in 65% in 2016, in 75% in 2018 and in 90% in 2020 and thereafter.

3. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for businesses whose production, employees or registered office are is located in the Mideast.
When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, the business whose production is the most located in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose employees are the most numerous to work in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose registered office is located in the Mideast.

4. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for small and middle-sized businesses. When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, including those set in clause 3, and when they are both located in the Mideast, the smaller business shall be selected. The size of a business shall be set in the call for tenders, by a mix between the number of people employed by the business and the amount of its sales."

Upon, review, I suppose the only necessary change was bolded above for previously stated reasons.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 22, 2009, 12:41:19 PM
Upon further reflection, SC, I have to say I oppose the proposal for breaking tie votes in the Assembly at this time. In addition to the other concerns previously mentioned, I realize that if 1/3 the Assembly abstains on a bill (even if that 1/3 is one person) and the rest of the members are split, than the bill shouldn't be passed baring legislative referendum (which I also agree should not be subject to gubernatorial veto).

Now if we had a larger assembly, the issue of breaking tie votes becomes much more germane. IMHO, 7 members: certainly; 5 members: maybe. While I'm extremely proud of the work this assembly has done in the last year, we're not quite ready for a 7 member assembly. But I believe we have grown and matured enough in regional identity and interest in regional government to warrant a 5 member assembly. And accordingly, having thought long and hard about this, would offer the folowing amendment (which Swede can either take as friendly or the matter be handled as a new bill):-)

1) The Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read as follows:

"Article III - Legislation and Recall
Section 1: The Assembly
The legislative power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Mideast Assembly.
The Assembly shall be composed of three five members, each of whom shall be registered voters residing in the Mideast Region.

Section 2: Legislation
All ordinary legislation shall first be considered in the Assembly.
Legislation shall be considered by the Assembly upon petition of any Assembly member, the Governor, or two Mideast citizens.
Should the Assembly pass ordinary legislation by a majority vote, then the Governor may sign such legislation into Law, or veto such legislation. A veto may be overturned upon the unanimous two-thirds vote of the Assembly. "

2. The effective date of this amendment shall be concurrent with the November 2009 Mideast Assembly Elections.



The first section is self-explanatory. Simply put, the Mideast is ready. The second part establishes that the rest of this session will be conducted in accordance with the last election of three members, and the new 5 person assembly will accordingly be elected by the voters to begin the next session. I suggest we see how it works with five members, and then see if a need for a tie breaking authority of some sort (governor, speaker, regional senator, etc) is needed.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on October 23, 2009, 12:04:26 AM
I am torn on expanding the Assembly. On one hand, I would like to see competitive elections, while on the other I would like to see a greater number of voices heard. I just think that until there are more than four people running for the seats, the region isn't ready.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 23, 2009, 03:01:28 AM
Public procurement policy Bill:

1. The government and all public institutions of the Mideast, when they intend to purchase goods, works or services, shall make a call for tenders. In their call, they shall explain the consistence of goods, works or services required, the cost estimate, the ceiling set for public spending, the process for bidding, the information required from the bidders, the criterias set to be selected.

2. Among the criterias set to select among the bidders the one who will provide the goods, works or services, the public institution shall include the compliance with existing standards and labels of sustainable development, organic agriculture and environmental quality.
This criteria shall be the first one in 15% of calls for tenders in 2010, in 30% in 2012, in 50% in 2014, in 65% in 2016, in 75% in 2018 and in 90% in 2020 and thereafter.

3. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for businesses whose production, employees or registered office are is located in the Mideast.
When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, the business whose production is the most located in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose employees are the most numerous to work in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose registered office is located in the Mideast.

4. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for small and middle-sized businesses. When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, including those set in clause 3, and when they are both located in the Mideast, the smaller business shall be selected. The size of a business shall be set in the call for tenders, by a mix between the number of people employed by the business and the amount of its sales."

Upon, review, I suppose the only necessary change was bolded above for previously stated reasons.

Dear Badger, I respectfully don't agree on your amendment, even if I think we in fact agree on the heart of this bill.
As you've seen, I kept the registered office as a criteria, but only third in the hierarchy of choice.
I think that you were right and production and employees should be more important criteria. But I think we need to keep the registered office as a third criteria because some of our taxes on businesses are based on the registered office.
So, it's a good thing to keep this as an alternate and final criteria.
Of course, "ties" between candidates after the environmental criteria, the production criteria, the employees criteria may not be very numerous, but, as we are in to put lines on the public procurement policy, I think we shouldn't prevent ourselves from setting another criteria which is good for our tax revenues.

So, if my fellow assemblyman and if our dear Speaker agreed on it, I would like the Assembly to consider the bill as I've amended it.



As for the membership of the Assembly, I was about to table a similar proposal :D.
I strongly agree on this one, as I think they may be enough willing and competent citizens in the Mideast region to have 5 good members in the Assembly.
Debates would be even more alive and we could have an even wider area of personal competences from which the Assembly can benefit highly.
Ties would be scarcer, at least a bit.

It may be theoretically more difficult to have competitive elections. But 5 aren't 6 or 8 and we aren't on a "Northeastern" path.
And the Mideast now seems to be appeased and, even with only 3 seats, the elections aren't very passionnate.
On the contrary, I think this first step (5 seats) would lead us to think and debate about the electoral system later, which may be a safer way to have more competitive elections.

What is more, with 5 members, the Assembly would be able to designate an assemblyman to assess existing laws and review them periodically (I have some ideas on the subject...) and propose, when it's needed, some changes.
I mean, to spread the laws between the members in order to make them review less laws.

The second part establishes that the rest of this session will be conducted in accordance with the last election of three members, and the new 5 person assembly will accordingly be elected by the voters to begin the next session. I suggest we see how it works with five members, and then see if a need for a tie breaking authority of some sort (governor, speaker, regional senator, etc) is needed.

Our fellow Badger is especially right here: let's try ! We are pragmatic and reasonable people and will be able to analyze quietly and cleverly the new functioning of our Assembly then.

May I add that with more members in the Assembly, I think we'll have more candidates (even surprising ones ;)), because the chances to be elected would be higher. So the elections may be more competitive.
That may sound paradoxical, but it's statistically logical...

So, I suggest we move forward rather quickly on Badger's proposal, without forgetting to debate on my own constitutional amendment ;).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 23, 2009, 05:31:25 AM
Quote
So, if my fellow assemblyman and if our dear Speaker agreed on it, I would like the Assembly to consider the bill as I've amended it.

Badger has 24 hours to either defend or withdraw his amendment if he wants to. I'll probably be able to open a vote on it before this week's over.



It seems I'm in the minority on the extended Assembly issue. I personally think it works well with three assemblymen, and I believe that increasing the number to almost the double of its current size would probably kill competive assembly elections.

If we take the next upcoming election for example, two candidates have declared, and asuming both me and Badger run for re-election, that makes us four. So in order for there to be any real competition we'd need at least two more, and at least one to be able to actually fill the assembly.

Now the assembly should work as a training ground for new members to stretch their wings and gather necessary knowlage in order for them to become mature and ready politicians. So I think it's fair that everybody should be given a chance to be a member, but one of the necessary things you need to learn is how to run a succesful campaign. If we remove the element of competition, the new members will not learn how to do that. If we have five seats, and only five candidates, you'd be able to just annouce your candidacy, show up and vote for yourself, and win a seat without having to do anything else.

I just fear that we would put ourselves in a situation were we'd have more seats than candidates. I'm therefore strongly leaning no on this issue.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 23, 2009, 05:45:02 AM
There are only 2 candidates so far but the election is still far away. So I don't think you can use it to argue against Badger's proposal.

As for the campaign thing, well, you may make the best of campaigns in Atlasia, it's always disrupted by unimportant facts or it's completely ignored. The real training comes inside the regional assembly.
To answer to your point here, I think having Assemblymen elected for 3 months and not only 2 would be better, to fulfil the training aim of all this.
That's another debate and I don't want to open it here, but you may see that we may have some other little changes that may answer your point.

When the Assembly is extended, there will be more candidates, as the chances are greater and as, inside political parties, if some are restraining from being candidates in order not to harm their mate's chances, they would be freer to be candidates with 5 seats.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 23, 2009, 05:46:08 AM
On the Public Procurement Policy Bill, what do you intend to do, Mr. Speaker ?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 23, 2009, 05:58:42 AM
Quote
To answer to your point here, I think having Assemblymen elected for 3 months and not only 2 would be better, to fulfil the training aim of all this.

This on the other hand is something I'm more than willing to support. I've often thought that two months is a too short time period to actually get much done, and that the time might be increased to three months instead.

I do disagree with you though that more seats will mean more candidates. There have been times when even getting three people to run has been quite hard in the assembly's history. So even if those seats were easy to obtain, there still weren't a lot of candidates.

Quote
On the Public Procurement Policy Bill, what do you intend to do, Mr. Speaker?

I want to hear Badger's reply before I make up my mind completely, but I think you make a good argument as to why the registered office should remain as a criteria, so I think I will either vote nay, or abstain to the amendment. As I said I want to hear Badger's reply first before I make any final decissions. 
 



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 23, 2009, 11:37:43 AM
I am torn on expanding the Assembly. On one hand, I would like to see competitive elections, while on the other I would like to see a greater number of voices heard. I just think that until there are more than four people running for the seats, the region isn't ready.

More seats will likely result in more candidates. We already have two non-incumbents officially declared for next month's elections, and I'm sure more will follow after this month's elections and focus shifts to the assembly races. I feel we're at greater risk in the region of 3 being too small for divergent views and voices than we are for 5 being too large to get enough interested quality candidates.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 23, 2009, 12:04:18 PM
Public procurement policy Bill:

1. The government and all public institutions of the Mideast, when they intend to purchase goods, works or services, shall make a call for tenders. In their call, they shall explain the consistence of goods, works or services required, the cost estimate, the ceiling set for public spending, the process for bidding, the information required from the bidders, the criterias set to be selected.

2. Among the criterias set to select among the bidders the one who will provide the goods, works or services, the public institution shall include the compliance with existing standards and labels of sustainable development, organic agriculture and environmental quality.
This criteria shall be the first one in 15% of calls for tenders in 2010, in 30% in 2012, in 50% in 2014, in 65% in 2016, in 75% in 2018 and in 90% in 2020 and thereafter.

3. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for businesses whose production, employees or registered office are is located in the Mideast.
When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, the business whose production is the most located in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose employees are the most numerous to work in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose registered office is located in the Mideast.

4. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for small and middle-sized businesses. When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, including those set in clause 3, and when they are both located in the Mideast, the smaller business shall be selected. The size of a business shall be set in the call for tenders, by a mix between the number of people employed by the business and the amount of its sales."

Upon, review, I suppose the only necessary change was bolded above for previously stated reasons.

Dear Badger, I respectfully don't agree on your amendment, even if I think we in fact agree on the heart of this bill.
As you've seen, I kept the registered office as a criteria, but only third in the hierarchy of choice.
I think that you were right and production and employees should be more important criteria. But I think we need to keep the registered office as a third criteria because some of our taxes on businesses are based on the registered office.
So, it's a good thing to keep this as an alternate and final criteria.
Of course, "ties" between candidates after the environmental criteria, the production criteria, the employees criteria may not be very numerous, but, as we are in to put lines on the public procurement policy, I think we shouldn't prevent ourselves from setting another criteria which is good for our tax revenues.

So, if my fellow assemblyman and if our dear Speaker agreed on it, I would like the Assembly to consider the bill as I've amended it.

Hmmmmm. I didn't realize that the "registered office" was listed third out of precedence given the amount of production and employees used within the region. Nor did I realize that "registered office" meant basically a "taxable" corporate or regional HQ as opposed to maybe a PO Box or single office cubicle. You have assumedly used the term as it is used in Mideast tax law, I'm sure. ;-)

With that futher explanation of the meaning of "registered office" and how it fits within the bill, I'm now satisfied and withdraw the amendment. :-)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 23, 2009, 12:08:34 PM
Quote
To answer to your point here, I think having Assemblymen elected for 3 months and not only 2 would be better, to fulfil the training aim of all this.

This on the other hand is something I'm more than willing to support. I've often thought that two months is a too short time period to actually get much done, and that the time might be increased to three months instead.

I do disagree with you though that more seats will mean more candidates. There have been times when even getting three people to run has been quite hard in the assembly's history. So even if those seats were easy to obtain, there still weren't a lot of candidates.

Let me also point out, my friend, that the Mideast has undergone a huge growth in registered voters since just before the last assembly election. I really don't think we'll have any problem finding sufficient quality candidates from that number (consider Giovanni who's now running as an example). I think we should take into account the large population growth the region's undergone in determining the size of our assembly. A growth from 3 to 5 merely reflects that growth, to say nothing in the growth in interest in the regional government.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 24, 2009, 06:18:31 PM
I call for a vote on this bill, as there has been no debate for 24 hours, and we all seem to agree on it.

Quote
Public procurement policy Bill:

1. The government and all public institutions of the Mideast, when they intend to purchase goods, works or services, shall make a call for tenders. In their call, they shall explain the consistence of goods, works or services required, the cost estimate, the ceiling set for public spending, the process for bidding, the information required from the bidders, the criterias set to be selected.

2. Among the criterias set to select among the bidders the one who will provide the goods, works or services, the public institution shall include the compliance with existing standards and labels of sustainable development, organic agriculture and environmental quality.
This criteria shall be the first one in 15% of calls for tenders in 2010, in 30% in 2012, in 50% in 2014, in 65% in 2016, in 75% in 2018 and in 90% in 2020 and thereafter.

3. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for businesses whose production, employees or registered office are is located in the Mideast.
When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, the business whose production is the most located in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose employees are the most numerous to work in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose registered office is located in the Mideast.

4. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for small and middle-sized businesses. When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, including those set in clause 3, and when they are both located in the Mideast, the smaller business shall be selected. The size of a business shall be set in the call for tenders, by a mix between the number of people employed by the business and the amount of its sales.

 ... as well as this bill.

Quote
1) The Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read as follows:

"Article III - Legislation and Recall
Section 1: The Assembly
The legislative power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Mideast Assembly.
The Assembly shall be composed of five members, each of whom shall be registered voters residing in the Mideast Region.

Section 2: Legislation
All ordinary legislation shall first be considered in the Assembly.
Legislation shall be considered by the Assembly upon petition of any Assembly member, the Governor, or two Mideast citizens.
Should the Assembly pass ordinary legislation by a majority vote, then the Governor may sign such legislation into Law, or veto such legislation. A veto may be overturned upon the two-thirds vote of the Assembly. "

2. The effective date of this amendment shall be concurrent with the November 2009 Mideast Assembly Elections.

Although I'm not too fond (not that I'm overly opposed either) of the bill, there seem to be a strong support for this among the Mideast citizens, so I think the best we could do is send this to the voters streight away for their judgment. It needs to be done before November elections after all. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on October 24, 2009, 06:21:34 PM
I would advise againest expanding the Assembly.  Having 3 members I think is perfectly appropriate.  I think having 5 would make it so that there would be virtually no competition for seats.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 24, 2009, 06:51:38 PM
Point of order, Mr. Speaker.  The Amendment contains both the old and new language (it says "three" and "five" as well as "unanimous" and "two-thirds").  Also, I would recommend that the pointless fraction of 2/3 not be used when we have 5 members.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 24, 2009, 07:23:28 PM
Point of order, Mr. Speaker.  The Amendment contains both the old and new language (it says "three" and "five" as well as "unanimous" and "two-thirds").  Also, I would recommend that the pointless fraction of 2/3 not be used when we have 5 members.

Sorry about that. It has now been fixed. :)

4/5 would probably be a better way of expressing it, but 2/3 means the same thing technically, so I personally see no great need to change it.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 25, 2009, 04:55:13 PM
I call for a vote on this bill, as there has been no debate for 24 hours, and we all seem to agree on it.

Quote
Public procurement policy Bill:

1. The government and all public institutions of the Mideast, when they intend to purchase goods, works or services, shall make a call for tenders. In their call, they shall explain the consistence of goods, works or services required, the cost estimate, the ceiling set for public spending, the process for bidding, the information required from the bidders, the criterias set to be selected.

2. Among the criterias set to select among the bidders the one who will provide the goods, works or services, the public institution shall include the compliance with existing standards and labels of sustainable development, organic agriculture and environmental quality.
This criteria shall be the first one in 15% of calls for tenders in 2010, in 30% in 2012, in 50% in 2014, in 65% in 2016, in 75% in 2018 and in 90% in 2020 and thereafter.

3. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for businesses whose production, employees or registered office are is located in the Mideast.
When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, the business whose production is the most located in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose employees are the most numerous to work in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose registered office is located in the Mideast.

4. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for small and middle-sized businesses. When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, including those set in clause 3, and when they are both located in the Mideast, the smaller business shall be selected. The size of a business shall be set in the call for tenders, by a mix between the number of people employed by the business and the amount of its sales.

 ... as well as this bill.

Quote
1) The Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read as follows:

"Article III - Legislation and Recall
Section 1: The Assembly
The legislative power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Mideast Assembly.
The Assembly shall be composed of five members, each of whom shall be registered voters residing in the Mideast Region.

Section 2: Legislation
All ordinary legislation shall first be considered in the Assembly.
Legislation shall be considered by the Assembly upon petition of any Assembly member, the Governor, or two Mideast citizens.
Should the Assembly pass ordinary legislation by a majority vote, then the Governor may sign such legislation into Law, or veto such legislation. A veto may be overturned upon the two-thirds vote of the Assembly. "

2. The effective date of this amendment shall be concurrent with the November 2009 Mideast Assembly Elections.


AYE

and

AYE

Thnak you, Mr. Speaker for such a fair management of our debates and a swift decision on each of these bills.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 25, 2009, 05:27:56 PM
Point of order, Mr. Speaker.  The Amendment contains both the old and new language (it says "three" and "five" as well as "unanimous" and "two-thirds").  Also, I would recommend that the pointless fraction of 2/3 not be used when we have 5 members.

Sorry about that. It has now been fixed. :)

4/5 would probably be a better way of expressing it, but 2/3 means the same thing technically, so I personally see no great need to change it.



Point taken, Governor, but I used the 2/3 margin as a precedent to set in case the assembly is ever further expanded in the far off future (which I am certainly not advocating). For point of reference, I readily stipulate that a vote of 4 of 5 Assembly members would be required to override a veto.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 25, 2009, 05:33:48 PM
I call for a vote on this bill, as there has been no debate for 24 hours, and we all seem to agree on it.

Quote
Public procurement policy Bill:

1. The government and all public institutions of the Mideast, when they intend to purchase goods, works or services, shall make a call for tenders. In their call, they shall explain the consistence of goods, works or services required, the cost estimate, the ceiling set for public spending, the process for bidding, the information required from the bidders, the criterias set to be selected.

2. Among the criterias set to select among the bidders the one who will provide the goods, works or services, the public institution shall include the compliance with existing standards and labels of sustainable development, organic agriculture and environmental quality.
This criteria shall be the first one in 15% of calls for tenders in 2010, in 30% in 2012, in 50% in 2014, in 65% in 2016, in 75% in 2018 and in 90% in 2020 and thereafter.

3. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for businesses whose production, employees or registered office are is located in the Mideast.
When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, the business whose production is the most located in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose employees are the most numerous to work in the Mideast shall be selected, then the business whose registered office is located in the Mideast.

4. A priority shall be set in public calls for tenders for small and middle-sized businesses. When two bidders are on a par with the other criterias, including those set in clause 3, and when they are both located in the Mideast, the smaller business shall be selected. The size of a business shall be set in the call for tenders, by a mix between the number of people employed by the business and the amount of its sales.

 ... as well as this bill.

Quote
1) The Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read as follows:

"Article III - Legislation and Recall
Section 1: The Assembly
The legislative power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Mideast Assembly.
The Assembly shall be composed of five members, each of whom shall be registered voters residing in the Mideast Region.

Section 2: Legislation
All ordinary legislation shall first be considered in the Assembly.
Legislation shall be considered by the Assembly upon petition of any Assembly member, the Governor, or two Mideast citizens.
Should the Assembly pass ordinary legislation by a majority vote, then the Governor may sign such legislation into Law, or veto such legislation. A veto may be overturned upon the two-thirds vote of the Assembly. "

2. The effective date of this amendment shall be concurrent with the November 2009 Mideast Assembly Elections.


AYE

and

AYE

Thnak you, Mr. Speaker for such a fair management of our debates and a swift decision on each of these bills.

Ditto (aye)

Ditto (Aye)

and Ditto re: SC's term as Speaker.

One last note to SC, Hap and other skeptics about expanding the Assembly. While we may disagree about whether the Mideast is ready to take on expanded activity in regional government--Fab, I and others obviously agree it is---there's certainly no harm in giving an expanded assembly a try. If it turns out not to work--not enough interested parties or whatever--we can reverse the change and go back to three members next session. I strongly suspect that that will not be necessary as the expanded assembly will work quite well. :-)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 25, 2009, 05:41:04 PM
 
Aye on the Public Procurment Policy Bill.

Abstain on the Amendment.



  The Ayes have it on both proposlas. Inks, you know what to do ;)

EDIT: I'd suggest we give the other two constitutional amendments priority so that they may be put on the same ballot as this amendment, if passed.





 





Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on October 25, 2009, 05:44:47 PM
I once again must object to any effort at expanding our assembly for the same reason as before.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 25, 2009, 05:50:35 PM
I once again must object to any effort at expanding our assembly for the same reason as before.
How would you feel about 4 instead?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 25, 2009, 06:05:32 PM
I once again must object to any effort at expanding our assembly for the same reason as before.
How would you feel about 4 instead?
I know the question wasn't posed to me, but FWIW I would oppose any even number of legislators as it makes the liklihood of a tie vote go up dramatically.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 25, 2009, 06:06:34 PM

I know the question wasn't posed to me, but FWIW I would oppose any even number of legislators as it makes the liklihood of a tie vote go up dramatically.
Well...
*clears throat*
Then it would be a great time to bring back the Lt. Governor position. The Lt. Governor can break ties. It's a win-win situation for everyone.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 25, 2009, 06:09:10 PM

I know the question wasn't posed to me, but FWIW I would oppose any even number of legislators as it makes the liklihood of a tie vote go up dramatically.
Well...
*clears throat*
Then it would be a great time to bring back the Lt. Governor position. The Lt. Governor can break ties. It's a win-win situation for everyone.
I would not like to put that much power over assembly results into the executive branch, even if elected separately from the governor. It's one thing to risk the occassional tie in a 100 person senate, but quite another in a legislative body of only 4 or 6. I think 5 will still work just as well as 4 without the increased risk of repeated tievotes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 25, 2009, 06:10:19 PM

I know the question wasn't posed to me, but FWIW I would oppose any even number of legislators as it makes the liklihood of a tie vote go up dramatically.
Well...
*clears throat*
Then it would be a great time to bring back the Lt. Governor position. The Lt. Governor can break ties. It's a win-win situation for everyone.

Not really. Those who oppose the Lt. Gov position, do so because it's just another office to fill, and 4 Assemblymen + 1 Lt. Governor is as many as 5 Assemblymen.  


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 25, 2009, 06:11:06 PM

I know the question wasn't posed to me, but FWIW I would oppose any even number of legislators as it makes the liklihood of a tie vote go up dramatically.
Well...
*clears throat*
Then it would be a great time to bring back the Lt. Governor position. The Lt. Governor can break ties. It's a win-win situation for everyone.
I would not like to put that much power over assembly results into the executive branch, even if elected separately from the governor. It's one thing to risk the occassional tie in a 100 person senate, but quite another in a legislative body of only 4 or 6. I think 5 will still work just as well as 4 without the increased risk of repeated tievotes.
How many close votes have there even been in recent sessions? It would rarely happen, and if it did, the person who breaks the tie would be someone elected by the people to serve that cause.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 25, 2009, 06:12:05 PM

I know the question wasn't posed to me, but FWIW I would oppose any even number of legislators as it makes the liklihood of a tie vote go up dramatically.
Well...
*clears throat*
Then it would be a great time to bring back the Lt. Governor position. The Lt. Governor can break ties. It's a win-win situation for everyone.

Not really. Those who oppose the Lt. Gov position, do so because it's just another office to fill, and 4 Assemblymen + 1 Lt. Governor is as many as 5 Assemblymen.  
But Assembly elections would be more competitive with only 4 in, since the Lt. Governor position would be tacked on with the Governor position.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on October 25, 2009, 06:16:46 PM
I know almost all of you guys were'nt around then but when it existed the Lt. Governor position was worthless and having four assemblyman is just useless in my opinion.  I totally support the current status quo, there does'nt really seem to be a problem and I think adding more positions will just increase the number of uncompetative races in the region.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 25, 2009, 06:41:18 PM
FWIW: I tend to agree with Fab and SC about expanded the Assembly terms to 3 months. What if we to combine these two and look at expanding the Assembly to 5 seats to serve for 3 months each? I'm not sure these should be subject to separate votes when they both directly relate to reforming the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 25, 2009, 07:29:42 PM
FWIW: I tend to agree with Fab and SC about expanded the Assembly terms to 3 months. What if we to combine these two and look at expanding the Assembly to 5 seats to serve for 3 months each? I'm not sure these should be subject to separate votes when they both directly relate to reforming the Assembly.
I'm not so sure about only one vote on the 2 proposals.
Each one taken separately is a really good one.
But I wouldn't take the risk to lose on both of them because of opposition to only one among our fellow citizens.
So, I agree on a simultaneous vote, but not on only one vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on October 25, 2009, 09:44:04 PM
FWIW: I tend to agree with Fab and SC about expanded the Assembly terms to 3 months. What if we to combine these two and look at expanding the Assembly to 5 seats to serve for 3 months each? I'm not sure these should be subject to separate votes when they both directly relate to reforming the Assembly.

I'm not a big fan of extending regional term limits for two reasons. First, the shorter terms allow for newer members to get involved quickly, which is, in my opinion, the primary purpose of the regional legislatures. There also happens to be very high turnover in the regional seats, especially to higher offices which leaves a vacancy to be filled by the Governor. I would like there to be relatively frequent elections to ensure that appointments get voted on sooner rather than later.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 26, 2009, 07:27:49 AM
FWIW: I tend to agree with Fab and SC about expanded the Assembly terms to 3 months. What if we to combine these two and look at expanding the Assembly to 5 seats to serve for 3 months each? I'm not sure these should be subject to separate votes when they both directly relate to reforming the Assembly.
I'm not so sure about only one vote on the 2 proposals.
Each one taken separately is a really good one.
But I wouldn't take the risk to lose on both of them because of opposition to only one among our fellow citizens.
So, I agree on a simultaneous vote, but not on only one vote.

That seems reasonable.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on October 26, 2009, 07:50:26 AM
You could always hold by-elections to fill any spare seats. Increasing the size of the Assembly makes a degree of sense, I suppose. Not so sure about extending the length of terms though.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on October 26, 2009, 09:56:53 PM
Message from the Office of the GM

Honorable Members of the Mideast Assembly,

The office of the GM has just reported that the Mideast region has the highest unemployment in Atlasia, as well as the fastest-growing regional unemployment. I would recommend economic legislation along the lines of previous GM analyses in order to save the region from economic collapse.

~PS
I haven't forgotten, Mr. GM. On my short to-do list I promise. ;-)

C'mon, c'mon...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 27, 2009, 07:25:08 AM
Message from the Office of the GM

Honorable Members of the Mideast Assembly,

The office of the GM has just reported that the Mideast region has the highest unemployment in Atlasia, as well as the fastest-growing regional unemployment. I would recommend economic legislation along the lines of previous GM analyses in order to save the region from economic collapse.

~PS
I haven't forgotten, Mr. GM. On my short to-do list I promise. ;-)

C'mon, c'mon...

<laugh> funny you should menton this. Without revealing PM contents within the last 24 hours, suffice to say it's coming very soon. ;-)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 31, 2009, 05:57:00 AM
Does our fellow assemblyman Badger have comments on my proposed Amendments to our Bill of Rights ?

Our dear Governor has let us some more days to discuss on these, if we want to include them on a big session of vote on, well, 3 series of Amendments:
-> 3 to 5 seats
-> 2 to 3 months
-> (hopefully) some amendments to our Bill of Rights.

I am myself on holidays for some days, but I check regularly our Assembly debates.
Remote legislative work ! ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on October 31, 2009, 08:06:13 AM
[...]
Reinforcement of Rights Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution
[...]
Mr Speaker, I must beg the chamber's pardon for my interruption, but I believe that these proposals must be given serious pause for consideration.

Quote
I. The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  No person shall be denied of Life without due process of Constitutional Law. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."
[...]
My first aim is here to constitutionalize the protection given to Life. The death penalty should be authorized only by a constitutional level of Law, not only a legislative level.
The author here misunderstands what the phrase due process of Law entails. Due Process of Law is not the sum of the protections afforded by statutory Law, but by the Law of the Land, i.e. the protections of Constitutional Law, Statutory Law and Precedental Law (the decisions of the Courts).

The phrase "due process of Constitutional Law" therefore doesn't make any sense, and certainly has no history of interpretation in the Common Law system.

If the author's desire is to ban the death penalty except in the case of another amendment, then he should do just that, not something that obfuscates the true purpose.

No person shall be deprived of life by any agency of government whatsoever.

Quote
III. The clause 13. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"13. Private property shall not be used for private use of other people without Constitutional Law allowing it. Private property shall not be taken for public use, without just compensation set by Law."
[...]
My second aim is to give a greater protection to private property, as I think it's a sacred principle, as stated, for example, in the French Bill of Rights and Declaration of Human Rights (Déclaration des Droits de l'Homme et du Citoyen de 1789).
So, reducing private property for public use would always be allowed by legislative ruling. However, reducing private property for another private use should be possible only by constitutional law.

This is a wonderful piece of circular logic, and again stems from a misunderstanding of the phrase "Constitutional Law". The amendment as read literally says "The State cannot take private property for private use unless the Constitution allows it". Thats a very large hole through which to drive a truck - all one needs to be able to do is argue that some other provision of the Constitution does allow it, and you're home.

There is already a reasonably robust piece of eminent domain restriction (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Eminent_Domain_Restriction_Statute) on the books, although conceivably it could be stronger.

Ultimately the biggest problem with eminent domain precedent is what "public use" actually means - a better approach to this problem may be to state that public use means only that the property may come into state ownership, not to be transferred to private owners at some later point (though that probably needs a time limit).

I thank the Assembly for its time


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on October 31, 2009, 12:20:47 PM
Quote
Mr Speaker, I must beg the chamber's pardon for my interruption, but I believe that these proposals must be given serious pause for consideration.

You are more than welcome to interupt Peter. :) And I had almost forgotten about this proposal, so it's just good you reminded me.

You make some very exellent points. It's easy to miss mistakes like these when a majority of the Assembly has a different native language than English.

I'd like to propose the following amendment to the pruposed amendment. 

Quote
I. The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

1. No person shall be denied of liberty or property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of the Law. No person is to be excecuted by the authority of the Mideast region.

I think that is a better way to formulate it at least.

BTW I knew you could not stay away completely ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 02, 2009, 12:13:01 PM
[...]
Reinforcement of Rights Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution
[...]
Mr Speaker, I must beg the chamber's pardon for my interruption, but I believe that these proposals must be given serious pause for consideration.

Quote
I. The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  No person shall be denied of Life without due process of Constitutional Law. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."
[...]
My first aim is here to constitutionalize the protection given to Life. The death penalty should be authorized only by a constitutional level of Law, not only a legislative level.
The author here misunderstands what the phrase due process of Law entails. Due Process of Law is not the sum of the protections afforded by statutory Law, but by the Law of the Land, i.e. the protections of Constitutional Law, Statutory Law and Precedental Law (the decisions of the Courts).

The phrase "due process of Constitutional Law" therefore doesn't make any sense, and certainly has no history of interpretation in the Common Law system.

If the author's desire is to ban the death penalty except in the case of another amendment, then he should do just that, not something that obfuscates the true purpose.

No person shall be deprived of life by any agency of government whatsoever.

Quote
III. The clause 13. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"13. Private property shall not be used for private use of other people without Constitutional Law allowing it. Private property shall not be taken for public use, without just compensation set by Law."
[...]
My second aim is to give a greater protection to private property, as I think it's a sacred principle, as stated, for example, in the French Bill of Rights and Declaration of Human Rights (Déclaration des Droits de l'Homme et du Citoyen de 1789).
So, reducing private property for public use would always be allowed by legislative ruling. However, reducing private property for another private use should be possible only by constitutional law.

This is a wonderful piece of circular logic, and again stems from a misunderstanding of the phrase "Constitutional Law". The amendment as read literally says "The State cannot take private property for private use unless the Constitution allows it". Thats a very large hole through which to drive a truck - all one needs to be able to do is argue that some other provision of the Constitution does allow it, and you're home.

There is already a reasonably robust piece of eminent domain restriction (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Eminent_Domain_Restriction_Statute) on the books, although conceivably it could be stronger.

Ultimately the biggest problem with eminent domain precedent is what "public use" actually means - a better approach to this problem may be to state that public use means only that the property may come into state ownership, not to be transferred to private owners at some later point (though that probably needs a time limit).

I thank the Assembly for its time

Peter:

First off: Good to see you posting. Secondly, thank you for eloquently stating the very concerns I've had with this proposal. The first part should be rewritten as a separate proposed amendment that straight forward constitutionally prohibits capital punishment rather than the language used here. Swede's proposed amendment may help that. FWIW, I would oppose it's passage as I do support capital punishment so long as there is adaquate resources for competent defense counsel and a robust appeals process.

The second portion also suffers from drafting confusion, and regardless I believe the Mideast Eminent Domain Restriction Statute and the current constitutional protections against taking of propoerty without due process of law and adaquate compensation together adaquately addresses the concerns Fab has over taking of private property, and the proposal here is thus unnecessary.

For the above reasons, I would oppose the proposal at this time, though perhaps Fab could explain if I've misunderstood anything here.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 02, 2009, 04:39:32 PM
I thank our former speaker to answer to the "old" question I've asked well before putting forward my proposal, but which remained without answer at the time, and which was about the simple meaning of the word "Law" in our Bill of Rights.

The problem is clearly that I wasn't born in a Common Law country... and that English isn't my native language, of course...
So I wasn't sure of the meaning of "Law". In French (and in other Latin Law systems), you've got a formal hierarchy between
le droit constitutionnel, more or less "harmed" by le droit international, especially from European origin,
la loi,
le règlement,
les circulaires.
And we always specify which level we refer to.

My concern is to give Life and Property the strongest protection.

The problem is that I think that, when you say that Law means everything in this case, we know that Liberty (also protected by "Law") is sometimes harmed just by bills adopted by our Assembly. Life must be protected with a higher degree than that.
So, I'm going to rewrite a proposal on this point.

And the problem is that, when you see the Freedom to Roam Bill recently turned into Law in the Mideast, it's not only the Property in itself, concretely, that is at stake, but its free use by the owner.
So, I'm going to rewrite a new proposal on this, too.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 03, 2009, 01:16:24 AM
I agree with Peter, especially on the death penalty amendment - the proposed amendment is just confusing and complicated, and while I oppose a ban on the death penalty, if we are going to ban it, at least say so clearly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 03, 2009, 06:34:11 PM
Swedish Cheese advises the economic development bill will take a little longer (he swears it's coming, Purple State!). So I've been given the green light to introduce this bill in the meantime so the Assembly does not go idle.

The Mideast Last Chance for Tax Cheats Bill:

1) The funding of the Mideast Regional Revenue Service for FY 2010 is increased 15%.

2) Effective 4/16/10 any person, business, corporation or other entity (hereafter: "deadbeat") which has previously failed to duly report taxes owed the Mideast region on income, sales, corporate taxes, capital gains, property, excise or other taxes levied by the Region due on or before 4/15/08 may apply to the MRRS for tax amnesty as described below.

3) Upon application for tax amnesty the deadbeat shall submit all missing or amended tax return forms for the tax years for which they seek amnesty by 12/31/10. The deadbeat must pay all such back taxes due, plus interest, no later than 12/31/15.

4) For all such taxes timely repaid under section 3 above, no additional MRRS administrative penalties nor other criminal liability shall attach for nonpayment or avoidance of said taxes.

5) Any deadbeat against whom a civil or criminal action, complaint or indictment regarding delinquent or unpaid taxes has been filed, or against whom MRRS audit proceedings have been initiated, is not eligible to apply for tax amnesty during the pendency of such actions.

6) Filing for tax amnesty does not prohibit the civil and/or criminal prosecution of any deadbeat for other unpaid or delinquent taxes outside the taxes for which amnesty has been applied for and granted.

7) Effective 1/1/11, MRRS administrative penalties for unpaid and delinquent taxes owed on or before 4/15/08 are increased 50%


The rationale behind this bill is straight forward. Section 1 allows for a significant increase in tax investigators and auditors. From all my reading state and federal tax offices are seriously understaffed compared to the number and complexity of tax dodging schemes set up by cheats, particularly the wealthiest and most shameless cheaters who can afford to hire a legion of lawyers and accountants to attempt hiding their assets. The amount of time required to investigate such complex mechanisms leave overburdened and understaffed revenue agents able only to pick low hanging fruit that falls into their lap rather than aggressively and persistently go after those who have the money to game the system to their advantage.

No matter how one feels about tax levels---too high, too low, not progressive enough, should be replaced by a flat tax, whatever---we can all agree that those who cheat on paying their fair share of taxes cheat every honest taxpayer and causes tax rates to rise on the scrupulous to make up the revenue lost to shameless cheats. Section 1 puts these scofflaws on notice.

Sections 2-6 give people who have cheated on their taxes previously the opportunity to come forward and admit to their unpaid taxes to be repaid with interest within 5 years, and thereby avoid large administrative penalties and possible criminal prosecution. Individuals who've already been caught and are facing audit and/or prosecution may not escape after the fact by applying for amnesty now.

The aim for the amnesty program has nothing to do with concern and mercy towards tax cheats, but everything to do with helping our beleaguered coffers and honest taxpayers during this economic crisis. Every dollar we can raise from tax cheats coming in out of the cold and paying their fair share (plus interest) is one less dollar we need to cut from education, health care, law enforcement, and infrastructure; or one less dollar we need to raise in taxes to provide needed services.

State tax amnesty programs have generally been rather successful:
http://www.taxadmin.org/FTA/rate/amnesty1.html

Section 7 drastically raises administrative penalties for those who still refuse to take advantage of the tax amnesty offered, much like California did earlier this decade (though the resulting economic chaos there obviously has nothing to do with that action). ;-) This is a stick of increased penalties to back up the carrot of amnesty. Last chance, deadbeats......


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 05, 2009, 04:53:23 AM
It's a fine proposal on which I largely agree.

I have 2 small remarks.

- Why not include taxes due on or before 4/15/09 ?
On 4/15/10, the MRRS will be able to know who hasn't reported or paid on 4/15/09.

- Five years to pay for deadbeats seem a bit too much for me. Why not set 12/31/13 as the deadline of principle ? We all know that the MRRS is able to give some additional delays if need be.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 05, 2009, 06:00:08 PM
I agree with Big Bad Fab on the point of starting in 2009, rather than 2010.  I would give them until 12/31/2011 to pay back 60%, and until 12/31/2012 to pay back the full amount.  I highly doubt these tax cheats are bereft of money.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 05, 2009, 09:22:14 PM
It's a fine proposal on which I largely agree.

I have 2 small remarks.

- Why not include taxes due on or before 4/15/09 ?
On 4/15/10, the MRRS will be able to know who hasn't reported or paid on 4/15/09.

- Five years to pay for deadbeats seem a bit too much for me. Why not set 12/31/13 as the deadline of principle ? We all know that the MRRS is able to give some additional delays if need be.

Two good points, Fab, which I'd considered in writing the bill. The first point I'd modeled the time off of some real world amnesty programs which seemed to have a lag of a couple years lag from the last eligible tax year and the amnesty period's beginning. (See link below for California's example). I'm not married to the date though, and if you assure me that your staff has determined the MRRS can adequately have deadbeats identified for the 2008 tax year as well, I'd be happy to amend the date. ;-)

The second part of including an extended 5 year repayment eligibility is to avoid the problems California had  with their tax amnesty where many deadbeats didn't come forward because they didn't have the money in hand at the time, and that is certainly an ongoing problem in the Mideast during this recession.

http://www.calchamber.com/Chamber_in_the_news/020305_Amnesty.htm


Don't forget that the interest on unpaid taxes will continue to accrue during that 5 year period until it's all paid, and they'll have to continue paying current taxes in the coming years as well, so I see more benefit and gain to regional taxpayers by giving every incentive for deadbeats to fess up and start paying back every penny they owe plus interest. For the reasons given in the article linked, I'd really like to keep the repayment schedule as extended as possible. Still, read the article and see if that changes your mind somewhat. I'm willing to listen to any continuing objections you have to a 5 year limit at that point.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 06, 2009, 04:10:27 AM
It's a fine proposal on which I largely agree.

I have 2 small remarks.

- Why not include taxes due on or before 4/15/09 ?
On 4/15/10, the MRRS will be able to know who hasn't reported or paid on 4/15/09.

- Five years to pay for deadbeats seem a bit too much for me. Why not set 12/31/13 as the deadline of principle ? We all know that the MRRS is able to give some additional delays if need be.

Two good points, Fab, which I'd considered in writing the bill. The first point I'd modeled the time off of some real world amnesty programs which seemed to have a lag of a couple years lag from the last eligible tax year and the amnesty period's beginning. (See link below for California's example). I'm not married to the date though, and if you assure me that your staff has determined the MRRS can adequately have deadbeats identified for the 2008 tax year as well, I'd be happy to amend the date. ;-)

The second part of including an extended 5 year repayment eligibility is to avoid the problems California had  with their tax amnesty where many deadbeats didn't come forward because they didn't have the money in hand at the time, and that is certainly an ongoing problem in the Mideast during this recession.

http://www.calchamber.com/Chamber_in_the_news/020305_Amnesty.htm


Don't forget that the interest on unpaid taxes will continue to accrue during that 5 year period until it's all paid, and they'll have to continue paying current taxes in the coming years as well, so I see more benefit and gain to regional taxpayers by giving every incentive for deadbeats to fess up and start paying back every penny they owe plus interest. For the reasons given in the article linked, I'd really like to keep the repayment schedule as extended as possible. Still, read the article and see if that changes your mind somewhat. I'm willing to listen to any continuing objections you have to a 5 year limit at that point.

Well, my dear Badger, to keep on objecting on the repayment period, I would need a precise study of who are the deadbeats, how much they must pay each, about which taxes the problem mainly is, etc.
And I must acknowledge we do not have any comprehensive study on these points.
So, I won't object on the 5-year period any more.

As for the first point, well, in the beginning of 2010, the MRRS will be able to know who hasn't paid taxes due (this is the key word in your proposal) on 4/15/09 or who hasn't asked officially for delays.
So, on this point, given the fact that the law would be in force on 4/15/10 and that the MRRS would have enough time to get prepared for these new rules, I maintain my remark.

Thanks for your time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 06, 2009, 04:40:43 AM
While our colleague Badger is working on amendments, I just want to ask my fellow assemblymen about the meaning they give to the word "Law" specified in our Constitution.

Does it refer to no specific level of legislation, or to constitutional level of legislation, or to legislative level of legislation ?

I don't want to misinterprete our supreme "rule" in my next proposals.

Don't forget my question !

See what my problem was...
So...


I wish to re-introduce the following constitutional amendment proposal to the Assembly, in a re-written version:


Reinforcement of Rights Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

I. The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  Human Life shall not be removed under any circumstance. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."

II. The words "private properties," are included after the word "houses," in the clause 11. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution.

III. The clause 13. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"13. Private property shall not be taken or used by another private legal entity. Private property shall not be taken by a public legal entity for public use, without just compensation."

IV. The clause 18. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"18. All persons under eighteen shall have the right to a publicly funded, well-balanced education. All persons under fourteen are required to receive education along lines and minimal requirements set by Law, in public or private institutions or in families."


As for clauses 1, 13 and 18, the text I wish to add to the Constitution is in bold.

- First of all, I think the Bill of Rights should include the fact that the Human Life should always be protected.
This is a principle that is debatable, of course, but which speaks for itself.

- Then, as I've already explained, I think we should protect a bit more the private property. It must be clearly written that another private person cannot take or use someone else's private property.
As for public use, I propose to add a reference to public legal entities, so that it's clearer (even if there will always be debate on the fact that everything a public entity does isn't automatically a public action; but it's really a tiny number of cases, that we can still let to the courts or to statutory law, as is already the case today).

- I've left unchanged my proposal on education.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 06, 2009, 08:30:30 AM
It's a fine proposal on which I largely agree.

I have 2 small remarks.

- Why not include taxes due on or before 4/15/09 ?
On 4/15/10, the MRRS will be able to know who hasn't reported or paid on 4/15/09.

- Five years to pay for deadbeats seem a bit too much for me. Why not set 12/31/13 as the deadline of principle ? We all know that the MRRS is able to give some additional delays if need be.

Two good points, Fab, which I'd considered in writing the bill. The first point I'd modeled the time off of some real world amnesty programs which seemed to have a lag of a couple years lag from the last eligible tax year and the amnesty period's beginning. (See link below for California's example). I'm not married to the date though, and if you assure me that your staff has determined the MRRS can adequately have deadbeats identified for the 2008 tax year as well, I'd be happy to amend the date. ;-)

The second part of including an extended 5 year repayment eligibility is to avoid the problems California had  with their tax amnesty where many deadbeats didn't come forward because they didn't have the money in hand at the time, and that is certainly an ongoing problem in the Mideast during this recession.

http://www.calchamber.com/Chamber_in_the_news/020305_Amnesty.htm


Don't forget that the interest on unpaid taxes will continue to accrue during that 5 year period until it's all paid, and they'll have to continue paying current taxes in the coming years as well, so I see more benefit and gain to regional taxpayers by giving every incentive for deadbeats to fess up and start paying back every penny they owe plus interest. For the reasons given in the article linked, I'd really like to keep the repayment schedule as extended as possible. Still, read the article and see if that changes your mind somewhat. I'm willing to listen to any continuing objections you have to a 5 year limit at that point.

Well, my dear Badger, to keep on objecting on the repayment period, I would need a precise study of who are the deadbeats, how much they must pay each, about which taxes the problem mainly is, etc.
And I must acknowledge we do not have any comprehensive study on these points.
So, I won't object on the 5-year period any more.

As for the first point, well, in the beginning of 2010, the MRRS will be able to know who hasn't paid taxes due (this is the key word in your proposal) on 4/15/09 or who hasn't asked officially for delays.
So, on this point, given the fact that the law would be in force on 4/15/10 and that the MRRS would have enough time to get prepared for these new rules, I maintain my remark.

Thanks for your time.

I'm good with changing the effective date. Offer an amendment to make it effective for taxes due this year and I'll accept it as friendly.

On second thought, that's lazy of me as I'm on line and it's only changing one number. I'll post a revised version of the bill momentarily with your suggested change.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 06, 2009, 08:35:53 AM
I agree with Big Bad Fab on the point of starting in 2009, rather than 2010.  I would give them until 12/31/2011 to pay back 60%, and until 12/31/2012 to pay back the full amount.  I highly doubt these tax cheats are bereft of money.

You would think, Ben, but check out the link regarding California's experience earlier this decade. Apparently not all tax cheats are wealthy folks stuffing their dollars away in the Caymans. Based on that experience I don't think a one or even two year extension is going to be as effective in reclaiming money for the treasury and taxpayers as a five year period.

Again, please don't confuse my extending the repayment period out as a sign of any sympathy for these deadbeats. I look upon the five year repayment period (with interest compounding every day) as simply the best way to strain every possible drop of milk from the tax cheaters cow.

Nevertheless, in light of the comments from you and Fab, I'll shave a year off the repayment period to reduce it to 4 years to make the bill more widely acceptable.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 06, 2009, 08:36:46 AM
The Mideast Last Chance for Tax Cheats Bill:

1) The funding of the Mideast Regional Revenue Service for FY 2010 is increased 15%.

2) Effective 4/16/10 any person, business, corporation or other entity (hereafter: "deadbeat") which has previously failed to duly report taxes owed the Mideast region on income, sales, corporate taxes, capital gains, property, excise or other taxes levied by the Region due on or before 4/15/09 may apply to the MRRS for tax amnesty as described below.

3) Upon application for tax amnesty the deadbeat shall submit all missing or amended tax return forms for the tax years for which they seek amnesty by 12/31/10. The deadbeat must pay all such back taxes due, plus interest, no later than 12/31/14.

4) For all such taxes timely repaid under section 3 above, no additional MRRS administrative penalties nor other criminal liability shall attach for nonpayment or avoidance of said taxes.

5) Any deadbeat against whom a civil or criminal action, complaint or indictment regarding delinquent or unpaid taxes has been filed, or against whom MRRS audit proceedings have been initiated, is not eligible to apply for tax amnesty during the pendency of such actions.

6) Filing for tax amnesty does not prohibit the civil and/or criminal prosecution of any deadbeat for other unpaid or delinquent taxes outside the taxes for which amnesty has been applied for and granted.

7) Effective 1/1/11, MRRS administrative penalties for unpaid and delinquent taxes owed on or before 4/15/08 are increased 50%


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 06, 2009, 08:53:29 AM
Thanks for avoiding me to introduce formally an amendment ;).

I agree on the revised text.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 06, 2009, 12:38:23 PM
Are you trying to get rid of the death penalty?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 06, 2009, 12:57:01 PM

Well techically he can't get rid of the death penalty because the Mideast don't have it. He's just trying to make sure it's in our constitution not just common law. ;)



I still feel the same about the clause II and III. I support the rest of the amendment.



I have nothing further to add on Badger's proposal. Unless BBF has anything more he'd like to add I'd suggest we move forward with this bill. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 07, 2009, 01:29:17 AM

Well techically he can't get rid of the death penalty because the Mideast don't have it. He's just trying to make sure it's in our constitution not just common law. ;)

Nevermind - I thought that the due process clause was part of the life clause - so I figured due process could void that out - my mistake.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 07, 2009, 08:19:52 PM
Quote
The Mideast Last Chance for Tax Cheats Bill:

1) The funding of the Mideast Regional Revenue Service for FY 2010 is increased 15%.

2) Effective 4/16/10 any person, business, corporation or other entity (hereafter: "deadbeat") which has previously failed to duly report taxes owed the Mideast region on income, sales, corporate taxes, capital gains, property, excise or other taxes levied by the Region due on or before 4/15/09 may apply to the MRRS for tax amnesty as described below.

3) Upon application for tax amnesty the deadbeat shall submit all missing or amended tax return forms for the tax years for which they seek amnesty by 12/31/10. The deadbeat must pay all such back taxes due, plus interest, no later than 12/31/14.

4) For all such taxes timely repaid under section 3 above, no additional MRRS administrative penalties nor other criminal liability shall attach for nonpayment or avoidance of said taxes.

5) Any deadbeat against whom a civil or criminal action, complaint or indictment regarding delinquent or unpaid taxes has been filed, or against whom MRRS audit proceedings have been initiated, is not eligible to apply for tax amnesty during the pendency of such actions.

6) Filing for tax amnesty does not prohibit the civil and/or criminal prosecution of any deadbeat for other unpaid or delinquent taxes outside the taxes for which amnesty has been applied for and granted.

7) Effective 1/1/11, MRRS administrative penalties for unpaid and delinquent taxes owed on or before 4/15/08 are increased 50%

Since there has been no more debate, we'll vote on the following bill. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 07, 2009, 10:56:01 PM
Quote
The Mideast Last Chance for Tax Cheats Bill:

1) The funding of the Mideast Regional Revenue Service for FY 2010 is increased 15%.

2) Effective 4/16/10 any person, business, corporation or other entity (hereafter: "deadbeat") which has previously failed to duly report taxes owed the Mideast region on income, sales, corporate taxes, capital gains, property, excise or other taxes levied by the Region due on or before 4/15/09 may apply to the MRRS for tax amnesty as described below.

3) Upon application for tax amnesty the deadbeat shall submit all missing or amended tax return forms for the tax years for which they seek amnesty by 12/31/10. The deadbeat must pay all such back taxes due, plus interest, no later than 12/31/14.

4) For all such taxes timely repaid under section 3 above, no additional MRRS administrative penalties nor other criminal liability shall attach for nonpayment or avoidance of said taxes.

5) Any deadbeat against whom a civil or criminal action, complaint or indictment regarding delinquent or unpaid taxes has been filed, or against whom MRRS audit proceedings have been initiated, is not eligible to apply for tax amnesty during the pendency of such actions.

6) Filing for tax amnesty does not prohibit the civil and/or criminal prosecution of any deadbeat for other unpaid or delinquent taxes outside the taxes for which amnesty has been applied for and granted.

7) Effective 1/1/11, MRRS administrative penalties for unpaid and delinquent taxes owed on or before 4/15/08 are increased 50%

Since there has been no more debate, we'll vote on the following bill. 

AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 08, 2009, 04:15:08 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 08, 2009, 04:16:06 PM
And I'll intervene tomorrow (CET) on my proposed Constitutional Amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 08, 2009, 07:20:14 PM

  Aye




The Ayes have it. The bill is transmitted to the Governor's desk for his signature or veto.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 10, 2009, 04:20:54 AM
As for my proposed amendment to the Bill of Rights,

- My proposal of protecting Life under any circumstances makes it more difficult to (re)instate the death penalty, as it would require a new amendment.
It may also, if courts judge it in that way, protect Human Life against voluntary and external euthanasia, as the word "removed" implies a voluntary action adn an action by someone else than the human being whose life is "removed".
So, to answer to our dear Governor Inks.LWC, if I am myself spontaneously in favour of death penalty when I see murders with rapes, sexual murders, murders of children or persons completely unable to defend themselves, etc, I think we must apply equally the same principle in every circumstance, because it's a sacred principle.
And, as the death penalty doesn't exist in the Mideast, it's not as if we would be slashing a penalty in force, which may have entailed some problems in terms of dissuading crimes.

- I understand the principled objections of our Speaker Sweedish Cheese, who is perfectly logical: as my point on Private Property was inspired by his Freedom to Roam Bill, it's normal that he is sceptical on my proposition.

What I can say is that, for the moment, I do not intend to split my proposal, because I want to reinforce a series of Rights, not just one, and I think it's better not to change the Bill of Rights too often.

- That's why I'd like to hear our fellow Assemblyman Badger on my re-writings, that may still be improved.

Thank you for your attention.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 10, 2009, 04:30:01 PM
I wish you would reconsider splitting the bill. As you know I support the first and forth clauses, and would like to vote in support of them. However I will vote Nay on the amendment as currently written.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 10, 2009, 06:46:10 PM
I wish you would reconsider splitting the bill. As you know I support the first and forth clauses, and would like to vote in support of them. However I will vote Nay on the amendment as currently written.

Thanks to have made your position clear, Mr. Speaker.
I may think again, but need to know Badger's own opinion on the proposal.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 10, 2009, 08:06:42 PM
As for my proposed amendment to the Bill of Rights,

- My proposal of protecting Life under any circumstances makes it more difficult to (re)instate the death penalty, as it would require a new amendment.
It may also, if courts judge it in that way, protect Human Life against voluntary and external euthanasia, as the word "removed" implies a voluntary action adn an action by someone else than the human being whose life is "removed".
So, to answer to our dear Governor Inks.LWC, if I am myself spontaneously in favour of death penalty when I see murders with rapes, sexual murders, murders of children or persons completely unable to defend themselves, etc, I think we must apply equally the same principle in every circumstance, because it's a sacred principle.
And, as the death penalty doesn't exist in the Mideast, it's not as if we would be slashing a penalty in force, which may have entailed some problems in terms of dissuading crimes.

- I understand the principled objections of our Speaker Sweedish Cheese, who is perfectly logical: as my point on Private Property was inspired by his Freedom to Roam Bill, it's normal that he is sceptical on my proposition.

What I can say is that, for the moment, I do not intend to split my proposal, because I want to reinforce a series of Rights, not just one, and I think it's better not to change the Bill of Rights too often.

- That's why I'd like to hear our fellow Assemblyman Badger on my re-writings, that may still be improved.

Thank you for your attention.

Thank you for your patience, Fab. I have to admit though, that I still have numerous concerns about your proposal---maybe even more than before.

First off, while you've given some overview as to the general ideas you're trying to include into your amendment you haven't put forth an actual revised version of your proposal including the necessary changes in language.

Second, I don't see anything in your revisions that addresses the problems Peter correctly pointed out (though presenting a revised version as mentioned in my first concern may address that somewhat).

Third, I agree with Swede's position that such completely different issues should be submitted and considered separately.

Fourth, personally I'm leery of the first proposal due to my personal views. I'm a "moderate" on capital punishment and, while I'm not seeking to re-institute it at this time, I don't seek to hinder it either. More importantly I'm very concerned about the amendment being used to undermine dieing with dignity/euthanasia laws which I support.

Fifth, I have concerns about the stated aim of your second proposal. I too believe strongly in the rights of private property and the need to limit abuse of eminent domain and the like. But I do not want to see even tepid regulation passed by the Assembly and signed by the Governor subject to constitutional challenge based on a "horse and buggy" interpretation of private property. If a decidedly limited and voluntary piece of legislation effecting private property like the Freedom to Roam Where Inks Tells You Act would be deemed unconstitutional under this provision, I have to say it would be quite bad for the region to pass it.

Sorry if I sound harsh. I'm honestly not trying to be. But for those stated reasons I have to say I oppose the proposals.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 11, 2009, 12:51:30 PM
EMERGENCY MEASURE TO AMEND THE MIDEAST ELECTION CONSOLIDATION STATUTE.

Effective immediately, the Mideast Election Consolidation Statute is hereby amended as follows:

Section 2: Determination of the Winner
1. If any candidate shall gain the greatest number of highest preference votes, then that candidate shall be declared the winner of the election. In Assembly elections, the candidate that receives a plurality of highest preference votes shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes and second preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first seat shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes, second preference votes, and third preference and that has not already been elected to the first two seats votes shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes, second preference votes, third preference votes and fourth preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first three seats votes shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes, second preference votes, third preference votes, fourth preference votes, and fifth preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first four seats votes shall be elected to the Assembly.


Thanks again to Senator Franzl for noting this oversight. We need to pass this amendment immediately for the forthcoming election.

Any comments or other things we've missed here?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 11, 2009, 01:06:44 PM
EMERGENCY MEASURE TO AMEND THE MIDEAST ELECTION CONSOLIDATION STATUTE.

Effective immediately, the Mideast Election Consolidation Statute is hereby amended as follows:

Section 2: Determination of the Winner
1. If any candidate shall gain the greatest number of highest preference votes, then that candidate shall be declared the winner of the election. In Assembly elections, the candidate that receives a plurality of highest preference votes shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes and second preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first seat shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes, second preference votes, and third preference and that has not already been elected to the first two seats votes shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes, second preference votes, third preference votes and fourth preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first three seats votes shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes, second preference votes, third preference votes, fourth preference votes, and fifth preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first four seats votes shall be elected to the Assembly.


Thanks again to Senator Franzl for noting this oversight. We need to pass this amendment immediately for the forthcoming election.

Any comments or other things we've missed here?

Although I'd personally like to see a switch to STV system, the most important thing right now is that we have an electoral system that works next week, and then we can allow the next Assembly to work out details on electoral reform instead.

I'd therefore urge a quick passage of this bill. And unless Big Bad Fab objects, I'd like to move to a vote ASAP. 



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 11, 2009, 01:08:48 PM
Necessary common-sense bill.  It'll be signed immediately upon passage.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 11, 2009, 03:21:13 PM
Big thanks to Franzl.
And I thank our Governor to be fair again and to stick to the will of the majority of our citizens.

I agree with our Speaker: the next Assembly will have to discuss another electoral system. And this may be a BIG discussion, as many systems are possible. For the moment, we need to be sure the 5 seats are created before next week.

I agree with Badger's amendment to the Mideast election consolidation Statute and I'm ready to vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 11, 2009, 05:39:37 PM
EMERGENCY MEASURE TO AMEND THE MIDEAST ELECTION CONSOLIDATION STATUTE.

Effective immediately, the Mideast Election Consolidation Statute is hereby amended as follows:

Section 2: Determination of the Winner
1. If any candidate shall gain the greatest number of highest preference votes, then that candidate shall be declared the winner of the election. In Assembly elections, the candidate that receives a plurality of highest preference votes shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes and second preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first seat shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes, second preference votes, and third preference and that has not already been elected to the first two seats votes shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes, second preference votes, third preference votes and fourth preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first three seats votes shall be elected to the Assembly. The candidate for the Assembly that receives the greatest number of combined highest preference votes, second preference votes, third preference votes, fourth preference votes, and fifth preference votes and that has not already been elected to the first four seats votes shall be elected to the Assembly.

Ok let's not make this take longer than it needs to.

Let us vote. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 11, 2009, 05:54:14 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on November 12, 2009, 12:11:30 AM
As I mentioned in the other thread, I believe STV would be accomplished by simply repealing that section. At least, that's how it was in my Constitution; I don't know if that's been carried over into the current one.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 12, 2009, 01:10:16 AM
Big thanks to Franzl.
And I thank our Governor to be fair again and to stick to the will of the majority of our citizens.

I agree with our Speaker: the next Assembly will have to discuss another electoral system. And this may be a BIG discussion, as many systems are possible. For the moment, we need to be sure the 5 seats are created before next week.

I agree with Badger's amendment to the Mideast election consolidation Statute and I'm ready to vote.

Why do people keep talking about me sticking to the will of the citizens?  Did I miss something here?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 12, 2009, 01:26:33 AM
I think there's some confusion here among some of the Assembly members.  This bill has nothing to do with the Fairer Status Quo Amendment.

So - I just want to make sure everybody's on the same page here with this.  The fairer Status Quo amendment makes it so that a Constitutional Amendment can't be passed unless it passes 3/5 regions and it receives at least 50%+1 vote overall.  In the past, it was just required to pass 4 regions (since 75% rounds up to 80%, not down to 60%).  As well, it could pass in 4 small regions, but fail in a large region, and the popular vote would be essentially ignored, such as in this case:

Mideast: Passes 2-1
Southeast: Passes 2-1
Midwest: Passes 2-1
Northeast: Passes 2-1
Pacific: Fails 1-10

Popular vote: Fails 9-14.

So the popular vote isn't reflected in the final outcome.  That was the Amendment that we're voting on in the election booth.

The amendment to the election statute (the bill currently being voted on in this thread) makes it so that there is a procedure to elect 5 Assemblymen instead of just 3.  Again, this bill has NOTHING to do with teh Fairer Status Quo Amendment.

With all of that being said, are we all on the same page, and are there any questions?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 12, 2009, 02:43:47 AM
My colleagues and I were talking about the results of the Mideast people voting on the amendment of Article III of our Constitution: 8 AYE, 3 NO.

Isn't it a clear "popular will" ?

Sticking to it is just paving the way for it to be applied AS SOON AS November election and not dragging our feet.
That's why you deserve some "thanks" ;).

So, we're all on the same page, "no problemo", as one of your fellow Governors would have said.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 12, 2009, 03:01:37 AM
My colleagues and I were talking about the results of the Mideast people voting on the amendment of Article III of our Constitution: 8 AYE, 3 NO.

Isn't it a clear "popular will" ?

Sticking to it is just paving the way for it to be applied AS SOON AS November election and not dragging our feet.
That's why you deserve some "thanks" ;).

So, we're all on the same page, "no problemo", as one of your fellow Governors would have said.

I received a PM from an Assemblymemeber (and I'm trying to be careful here and not accidentally violate the Privacy Protection Act), that led me to believe that at least one member was confused about what's going on here - I've PMed the Assemblymember, but I just wanted to make sure that the entire Assembly knows what's going on here.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 12, 2009, 12:23:41 PM
My colleagues and I were talking about the results of the Mideast people voting on the amendment of Article III of our Constitution: 8 AYE, 3 NO.

Isn't it a clear "popular will" ?

Sticking to it is just paving the way for it to be applied AS SOON AS November election and not dragging our feet.
That's why you deserve some "thanks" ;).

So, we're all on the same page, "no problemo", as one of your fellow Governors would have said.

I received a PM from an Assemblymemeber (and I'm trying to be careful here and not accidentally violate the Privacy Protection Act), that led me to believe that at least one member was confused about what's going on here - I've PMed the Assemblymember, but I just wanted to make sure that the entire Assembly knows what's going on here.

What Fab said. I meant to refer to the amendment passed last week expanding the Assembly to 5 seats effective this election, not the measure currently being voted on. Sorry if I misspoke (or mistyped) leading to any confusion.

Anyhoo,

AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 12, 2009, 12:32:41 PM
 
  Aye



The bill passes with an unanimous aye, and is transmitted to the Governor's desk for his signature or veto.



Nice to have that out of the way. Good work on getting this passed quickly, everybody.

Don't forget BBF's amendment. If there is no further debate I'll have to bring it to a final vote soon. Also I intend to introduce another bill later tonight, so stay tuned.   


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 12, 2009, 12:38:56 PM
The bill has been signed.  I'd like to thank the Assembly for their quick action here.

Also, if you guys can get the Amendment through the Assembly before Thursday, we can get it on the ballot along with the Assembly elections.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 12, 2009, 04:24:57 PM
So after a very long period of waiting, with some appreciated help from my good friend Badger and our Game Moderator's analysing and advice, I can finally introduce to you ... drumroll please...

The Mideast Save the Sinking Ship That Is Our Economy Act

Section I: The Assembly recognises the need for a lower regional corporate tax, in order to stimulate our economy and help boost employment. We therefore will offer tax cuts to businesses that are successful in creating new jobs in the region. 
Definitions: "Workforce compensation" is the value of benefits paid to employees, both full and part time, whether in form of salaries/wages or the dollar value of fringe benefits such as health insurance, etc.
   1)   Effective 1/1/10, every Mideast business, company, and corporation that is successful in increasing their overall workforce compensation, regardless of whether said increase is due to additional employees being hired or increased compensation to current employees or a combination thereof in this region with at least 5 will get a 25 % tax cut reduction equivalent to double the percentage increase for employee compensation in their corporate tax rate for 2010, up to a maximum reduction of 50%. (i.e. A 3.5% increase in employment/compensation will result in a 7% reduction in corporate taxes. 5% increase will result in a 10% tax cut, etc.)
   2) Any increase of total compensation for individual employees salary and/or benefits above $100,000 per year is excluded from calculating any reduction of corporate taxes pursuant to Section 1 above.

Section II: The Assembly proposes that a number of 10 billion dollars be used in programs designed to extend and repair the region's infrastructure, such as building new roads, bridges, tunnels and railroad, increasing and promoting train activity, and renovate decayed roads.

Section III: The funding for public schools and universities will be increased with 7 % the coming two years.

Section IV: The region's funding for science for new effective and green energy will be increased with 5 %.   

Section V: The funding for the initiatives in Section II, III, and IV will be drawn from the 32 billions handed to the Mideast Region through the Regional and Local Fiscal Relief Act.




The bill has been signed.  I'd like to thank the Assembly for their quick action here.

Also, if you guys can get the Amendment through the Assembly before Thursday, we can get it on the ballot along with the Assembly elections.

Thank you for your quick action as well Governor.

I'm positive that there will be a final vote on BBF's proposal before Thursday. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 13, 2009, 05:36:02 AM
I wish to re-introduce my constitutional amendments to the Assembly, splitted in 3 different proposals:



Protection of Human Life Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  Human Life shall not be removed under any circumstance. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."



Protection of Private Property Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

I. The words "private properties," are included after the word "houses," in the clause 11. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution.

II. The clause 13. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"13. Private property shall not be taken or used by another private legal entity. Private property shall not be taken by a public legal entity for public use, without just compensation."



Right to Education Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 18. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"18. All persons under eighteen shall have the right to a publicly funded, well-balanced education. All persons under fourteen are required to receive education along lines and minimal requirements set by Law, in public or private institutions or in families."



To my fellow Assemblyman Badger:
my amendment on Private Property is not only about "taking" private property, but also about "using" it, and it is about private entities among each other (the private property taken by a public entity is already dealt with by our Constitution and I haven't changed the "public use" phrase).
Therefore, this version answers to the objection of our dear Peter about the initial "circular logic".

To my fellow Assemblymen:
If your interpretation of the Freedom to Roam Bill is right (i.e. the private property is used only upon owner's agreement), my amendment will not harm this Bill.
My main aim is to prevent bigger "exceptions" to the right to quiet private ownership.

To my fellow Assemblyman Badger:
I think the human life is sacred (in the common meaning of the word) and that another human being cannot decide to remove it. This is a principle (whether one believes in a God or in Mother Nature or in a great Human Project ;)) and it should be written as such.
And don't forget that I only propose to rewrite the Bill of Rights just to make this protection more difficult to remove, but our current Bill of Rights already gives a general protection to "Life".

To my fellow Assemblymen:
I urge you to consider these 3 amendments as one "package", aimed at reinforcing our Bill of Rights, even if, of course, you will decide separately on each of these 3 proposals.
And please take a little time to read the current writing of our Bill of Rights and to read my amendments: you'll see that the changes are of reinforcement  and are not at all contrary to the spirit of the current writing.

I thank you for your time.

(I'm sorry not to have introduced these 3 amendments sooner.)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on November 13, 2009, 09:59:02 AM
If that one amendment is meant to remove the death penalty, thats already been done lol.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 13, 2009, 11:22:29 AM
If that one amendment is meant to remove the death penalty, thats already been done lol.
I know my English is bad, but I repeat that I just want MORE protection for human life. I know there is no death penalty in the Mideast.
But I want to give human life a clear constitutional protection. And I've said that, written so, it will also prevent voluntary euthanasia.
Please read what I've written one or two pages before, throughout our debates in the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on November 13, 2009, 11:29:38 AM
If that one amendment is meant to remove the death penalty, thats already been done lol.
I know my English is bad, but I repeat that I just want MORE protection for human life. I know there is no death penalty in the Mideast.
But I want to give human life a clear constitutional protection. And I've said that, written so, it will also prevent voluntary euthanasia.
Please read what I've written one or two pages before, throughout our debates in the Assembly.
I was just asking, I did'nt understand what you meant.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on November 13, 2009, 06:36:26 PM
"1.  Human Life shall not be removed under any circumstance. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."
This wording remains overly broad - not only does it bar the death penalty, but as you have already identified the euthanasia laws. It could also be picked up by the pro life crowd as a constitutional ban on abortion.

Perhaps most chilling is that it prevents law enforcement officers from using deadly force to protect innocent lives, because as government agents, they cannot kill.

If you wish to pursue this amendment I would have to advise a constitutional amendment restricted to only the death penalty, reading "Termination of human life shall not be permitted as a punishment for a crime committed under the jurisdiction of the Mideast Region" or words to that effect.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 13, 2009, 06:56:00 PM
"1.  Human Life shall not be removed under any circumstance. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."
This wording remains overly broad - not only does it bar the death penalty, but as you have already identified the euthanasia laws. It could also be picked up by the pro life crowd as a constitutional ban on abortion.

Perhaps most chilling is that it prevents law enforcement officers from using deadly force to protect innocent lives, because as government agents, they cannot kill.

If you wish to pursue this amendment I would have to advise a constitutional amendment restricted to only the death penalty, reading "Termination of human life shall not be permitted as a punishment for a crime committed under the jurisdiction of the Mideast Region" or words to that effect.

While I plan on voting against any amendment that bans the death penalty, I would agree with Peter here - what bbf has proposed would create a legal and logistical nightmare.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 13, 2009, 09:19:25 PM
Regarding BBF's three proposals:

First off, Fab, I have to complement the clean up job you did on the language of your proposals. It is decidedly more coherent. And don't worry about your English; it's fine, and better than almost any American on this forum's French. ;-) I also understand your goal that, although capital punishment is currently prohibited by statute, you wish to further prohibit it at the constitutional level as well. I don't think that is in any way redundant as some have suggested.

That said, I have severe difficulties with the first two amendments, and am unsure about the third.

For the first, even if Peter's absolutely necessary modification were made to the language, this proposal would not only entrench prohibition of capital punishment, on which I am a moderate who opposes complete abolition, but would further utterly outlaw a woman's right to choose, voluntary informed euthanasia for the terminally ill, and possibly even affect the legal status of some forms of contraceptives, all of which I firmly support.

For the second, I do not see the need to add additional provisions beyond the Mideast's current robust Eminent Domain Statute. I'm happy to hear that you believe Inks version of FTR would not be affected by this provision, but concerned that you consider that law "the line in the sand" beyond which any further public regulation of private property would be forbidden. If such a nominal level of voluntary public involvement like FTR is the maximum regulation of private property allowed under this provision, it would utterly hamstring the public's ability to enforce environmental protection laws, public health statutes, a host of agricultural laws, etc, etc.  I have no desire to require the taxpayers to recompense polluters for  "inconveniencing" them with the enforcement of environmental laws against their property, be it farm, forest or factory. I'm not sure if that's what you intended here, my friend, but it is unquestionably what this proposal provides for.

For the third proposal, my biggest concern is I'm simply not 100% sure what your aim here is. Is it to constitutionally require education--be it public, private, or at home--through age 14? If so, I think I might support this in principle, but have a few concerns that I think can be remedied.

First, Such a broad constitutional requirement would arguably require the attempted education of even the most severely mentally disabled persons---not mere severe retardation, but even those who are in nursing care due to barely being sentient (sadly). I'm sure that isn't your intent, but that is the danger of writing something as a broad constitutional mandate rather than as a statute. ;-)

Beyond that, I might even suggest whether 14 is actually too young an age to be permitted to cease education? 16 maybe? I know many Amish drop out after 8th grade to work on the family farm, but.... I'm open to arguments here.

With those points, I might be willing to support this provision if submitted as an independent proposal, which I join Swedish Cheese in suggesting, but as it's currently attached to the other two amendments I firmly oppose I simply can't support this bill as is.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 14, 2009, 06:29:51 AM
So since no one has attempted to debate or argue my economic proposal, should I asume that y'all support it?



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 14, 2009, 07:29:29 AM
So since no one has attempted to debate or argue my economic proposal, should I asume that y'all support it?



I have some objections but am very busy today. Could you wait until tomorrow ?

And I'll answer to Peter's and Badger's clever objections. I already thank them for this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 14, 2009, 07:44:01 AM
So since no one has attempted to debate or argue my economic proposal, should I asume that y'all support it?



I have some objections but am very busy today. Could you wait until tomorrow ?

And I'll answer to Peter's and Badger's clever objections. I already thank them for this.

Don't worry, you at least have until Monday. I won't be here for the rest of today, or tomorrow.   


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 14, 2009, 09:16:32 PM
So since no one has attempted to debate or argue my economic proposal, should I asume that y'all support it?

"y'all"?? Oh, that's right. I forgot you're from southern Sweden. :-P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 14, 2009, 11:51:07 PM
What is FTR?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 15, 2009, 02:05:11 PM

Freedom To Roam (Where Inks Says You Can) Act.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 16, 2009, 01:34:31 AM
If at all possible, I'd really like to get all of these voted on by the Assembly ASAP so we can get them on the November ballot.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 16, 2009, 04:34:27 AM
If at all possible, I'd really like to get all of these voted on by the Assembly ASAP so we can get them on the November ballot.

Well, I'm really busy in RL now and it will be the case for the weeks to come. Forgive me. I've intended, for a moment, to withdraw my amendments, but, as is perfectly logical, principled objections won't fade away with time, so it's better to go to vote ASAP.

So, to make things simpler and as there are many objections from every side, I re-write my first amendment and ask our dear Speaker to submit this new first amendment and the other two amendments (unchanged) to the Assembly's vote.

I make it clear that, though introduced simultaneously, these 3 amendments are independent and a 3 separated votes have to be organized in our Assembly (when I talked about a "package", that had no legal consequence: it was just a way to invite my fellow Assemblymen to think about them globally).


1) Peter's objection on the right for police agents to kill in order to save innocent lives should be addressed and I make some changes on this.
As for Badger's objection on euthanasia, we simply disagree and I won't convince him ;). So, no need to further debates.
As for his objection on abortion, my writing can be "anti-choice" only if the period before birth is viewed as "human life": I am personally in favour of such a view and would be in favour of forbidding abortion except in cases of rape or of threat to mother's life, but th current state of law is one that view the human life as legally beginning when the child is out of his/her mother.
So, I won't change my writing on this. But I perfectly understand the objection of my fellow Badger.

Here is my last writing. It won't change any more and you'll have to do with its weaknesses ;).


Protection of Human Life Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  Human Life shall not be removed under any circumstance, except by law enforcement officers when allowed to use deadly force to protect threatened innocent lives and by soldiers when allowed to use deadly force against enemies in time of war. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."



2) The Eminent Domain Statute only deals with PUBLIC entities using or taking private property, not with PRIVATE entities taking or trying to take or using without being allowed private property of another else.

So, I stick to my amendment proposal:


Protection of Private Property Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

I. The words "private properties," are included after the word "houses," in the clause 11. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution.

II. The clause 13. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"13. Private property shall not be taken or used by another private legal entity. Private property shall not be taken by a public legal entity for public use, without just compensation."



3) A right to education doesn't entail the same education for everyone. So, even mentally disabled persons receive a sort of education through treatment and psychological care.
My phrase "along lines and minimal requirements set by Law" is here to allow the possibility to have different lines and requirements for objectively/obviously different situations.

As for the age, there is no age set in our current Constitution, so 14 is already something. And 16 would be too old because you've got teens who follow an apprenticeship course, in which they work "normally" (with a contract) for more than 50% of their time and so are no longer in the education system, though they keep following courses and lessons at school.
I don't want to harm this system of apprenticeship, which is very useful for young people who aren't at ease in school, to give them real competences and to prevent "premature" unemployment.

So, I stick to my amendment proposal:


Right to Education Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 18. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"18. All persons under eighteen shall have the right to a publicly funded, well-balanced education. All persons under fourteen are required to receive education along lines and minimal requirements set by Law, in public or private institutions or in families."



I thank our Speaker to make us vote on these 3 proposals, whatever the anticipated result ;).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 16, 2009, 05:02:16 AM
The Mideast Save the Sinking Ship That Is Our Economy Act

Section I: The Assembly recognises the need for a lower regional corporate tax, in order to stimulate our economy and help boost employment. We therefore will offer tax cuts to businesses that are successful in creating new jobs in the region. 
Definitions: "Workforce compensation" is the value of benefits paid to employees, both full and part time, whether in form of salaries/wages or the dollar value of fringe benefits such as health insurance, etc.
   1)   Effective 1/1/10, every Mideast business, company, and corporation that is successful in increasing their overall workforce compensation, regardless of whether said increase is due to additional employees being hired or increased compensation to current employees or a combination thereof in this region with at least 5 will get a 25 % tax cut reduction equivalent to double the percentage increase for employee compensation in their corporate tax rate for 2010, up to a maximum reduction of 50%. (i.e. A 3.5% increase in employment/compensation will result in a 7% reduction in corporate taxes. 5% increase will result in a 10% tax cut, etc.)
   2) Any increase of total compensation for individual employees salary and/or benefits above $100,000 per year is excluded from calculating any reduction of corporate taxes pursuant to Section 1 above.

Section II: The Assembly proposes that a number of 10 billion dollars be used in programs designed to extend and repair the region's infrastructure, such as building new roads, bridges, tunnels and railroad, increasing and promoting train activity, and renovate decayed roads.

Section III: The funding for public schools and universities will be increased with 7 % the coming two years.

Section IV: The region's funding for science for new effective and green energy will be increased with 5 %.   

Section V: The funding for the initiatives in Section II, III, and IV will be drawn from the 32 billions handed to the Mideast Region through the Regional and Local Fiscal Relief Act.



 

- It seems as if your 25% reduction isn't coherent with your examples. If the reduction is 25%, that would mean 12.5% increase in employee compensation. 50% is a maximum, but 25% can't be a minimum. So, what is it ?
I'm sorry if I've misundertood this clause, but, really, it isn't very clear to me for the moment.

Of course, the example should be removed from the text..., and also the "etc." word, which is quite difficult to deal with, legally speaking ;).

- As for the use of national funds, though I would have been very reluctant to this pouring of money THAT DOES NOT EXIST (except in the Senate's writings and in the future work of our children...), the reality is that the Mideast region must now use this money.

Your proposal's sections III and IV should be amended, because a 7% increase in an area where the budget is already massive would be too much. I would advise a 4% increase each year) or a 7% increase but over 2 years.
As for "science for new effective and green energy", the basis is ridiculous and so, a 50% increase wouldn't be outrageous.

If you've got precise numbers, I would be pleased, but I think the rough assessments I have in mind aren't bad.

As for section II, I would advise to limit the list of infrastructures and to set priorities:
1. repairings and works aimed at improve the security of current infrastructures, first of bridges and tunnels, then of roads; (but note that I exclude extending roads, a source of pollution and pork...)
2. extending and improving environmental-friendly infrastructures: renewable energy production centers and distribution infrastructure; infrastructures easing the use of electrical transportation.
3. increasing and promoting railway transportation, whether of persons or of goods.

And you may usefully add that the sums allowed to this program should be spent or engaged before the end of 2011 and that the Public Procurement Policy Bill, which our Assembly has voted recently, shoudl be applied to these spendings but with an exceptional rate of 50%.

Thanks for your time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 16, 2009, 05:12:01 AM
So since no one has attempted to debate or argue my economic proposal, should I asume that y'all support it?

"y'all"?? Oh, that's right. I forgot you're from southern Sweden. :-P

People from South Sweden actually speaks Swedish with a very thick odddifferent dialect, and here in Stockholm people have trouble understanding what I'm actually saying and think I sound like a hillibilly ;)



I'll try to get the amendments to a vote as soon as possible, Mr Governor. I'm sure we'll be done with them before Thursday now that BBF has submitted his final proposals.

(BBF I'll reply to your critc of my bill in a seperate post)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 16, 2009, 06:14:16 AM

Ok, let's begin.

Quote
Quote
Your proposal's sections III and IV should be amended, because a 7% increase in an area where the budget is already massive would be too much. I would advise a 4% increase each year) or a 7% increase but over 2 years.

Section III: The funding for public schools and universities will be increased with 7 % the coming two years.

I believe we might have misunderstood eachother, but a 7 % increase over the period of two years are exactly what I have in mind, not a 7 % for each of the years. I think we are on the same page on this issue.

Quote
As for "science for new effective and green energy", the basis is ridiculous and so, a 50% increase wouldn't be outrageous.

A 50 % increase would indeed be outragous. Which is why I proposed a 5% increase not 50%

Quote
Section IV: The region's funding for science for new effective and green energy will be increased with 5 %.

Green Energy is an highly important area when it comes to new science and technology for our region. We have a huge Auto-Industry that depends on selling cars. In this modern day and age, when buying gas will ruin you, more and more people are looking for cheaper alternative energy. If we want our car industry to continue to be competive on an national and international market they need to have access to the newest and best energy science. As it is now Germany, Japan, Sweden, and even the Czech Republic is outrunning Atlasia in this area, something that will very likely hurt us badly in the future. It might actually be a vital part in tackeling our high unemployment. And I think it's important they get the funding they need.

Quote
If you've got precise numbers, I would be pleased, but I think the rough assessments I have in mind aren't bad.


Yes, and I think it's good you ask. Badger also wanted a calculation of the costs of the proposlas in Section 2-4, and therefore asked Game Moderator Purple State make a prediction.

I can't repost the PM exactly, as that would be against Atlasian law, but unless PS or Badger has any objections I am of course more than willing to forward the message to you.

In the numbers PS gave us however, he predicted it would cost us between $17-22 billion over two years. Even though it would most likely turn out to be more costly than originally predicted (as most often happens in RL) we are still within limits of money given to us by the Senate.

Quote
As for section II, I would advise to limit the list of infrastructures and to set priorities:
1. repairings and works aimed at improve the security of current infrastructures, first of bridges and tunnels, then of roads; (but note that I exclude extending roads, a source of pollution and pork...)
2. extending and improving environmental-friendly infrastructures: renewable energy production centers and distribution infrastructure; infrastructures easing the use of electrical transportation.
3. increasing and promoting railway transportation, whether of persons or of goods.

This is a very good point, and I'll try to find time writing an amendment dealing with it. I also agree with the order you think we should priority.

Quote
And you may usefully add that the sums allowed to this program should be spent or engaged before the end of 2011

I'll make sure it's in the final bill.

Quote
It seems as if your 25% reduction isn't coherent with your examples. If the reduction is 25%, that would mean 12.5% increase in employee compensation. 50% is a maximum, but 25% can't be a minimum. So, what is it ?
I'm sorry if I've misundertood this clause, but, really, it isn't very clear to me for the moment.

Ugghh, no that appears to be a mistake on my part that I overlooked. I'll do something about that as well.


Thanks for your oppinion and advice. It's always much appreciated. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 16, 2009, 06:51:49 AM
I thank you for your quick answer and for taking into consideration some of my ideas or objections on sections I and II.
We are OK on section III.

So, I'm going to intervene only on section IV.
What I stated is that 5% of increase on public spendings that are very low is little thing.

When you wrote about a 7% increase in ALL the public fundings for ALL public schools and universities, this makes a BIG, BIG amount.

But when you have 5% of something which is very small, it's still very, very small (see, Mideast's public funding of science for new effective and green energy is VERY small; the main amount of money spent for research in these areas is of private origin, even in universities).

That's why my 50% isn't outrageous, because the basis on which you apply this 50% may not exceed 500m$.... Imagine 5% of this !

Thanks again for your attention.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 16, 2009, 06:52:17 AM
I'd like to introduce to the Assembly the following:



The Periodical Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government Bill

I. Each year, the Assembly reviews the Statute Laws which came into force 5 years earlier, in order to check their lasting usefulness, to scrap Statute Laws that have become useless or to amend Statute Laws that have more downsides than upsides.

II. To that aim, an Assemblyman shall submit an "Assessement Report" to the Assembly regarding each law referred to in clause I.
After having consulted the Governor's office, every accurate administrative entity, the other members of the Assembly, the Atlasia Game Master and a number of citizens, and having checked the overall and additional costs, the financial implications and the results of the law, the Assemblyman writes an "Assessment Report".

III. The "Assessment Report" shall give a statement:
a. on the overall and the additional costs of the law,
b. on the current risks and the possible future risks (at least in the following areas: constitutional risks, safety and human risks, security risks, financial risks),
c. on the upsides and downsides and on the efficiency of the law in comparison with its original aims and with the means it uses or its implementation implies,
d. on its compatibility with the Constitution and with other Statute Laws.
The report shall conclude whether the law can be let unchanged or needs to be repealed or amended, due to incompatibility, to uselessness, to excessive risks or to excessive costs.
The Assemblyman who has written the report shall introduce at the same time a bill to repeal or amend the law if the report concludes so.

IV. Each year, before the end of January, the Assembly by a majority vote or its Speaker if no majority is reached shares out between the Assemblymen (including the Speaker) the reviewing work of all the Statute Laws which came into force in the preceding 5th year.



The title of my proposal seems to be clear: we must review periodically our legislation, in order to simplify it, to amend it, to improve it, as reality changes, evolves faster and faster, as our financial resources are under strain, as our Government needs to remain not too big and to act humbly and moderately.

The assessment of legislation is almost as important a work than the vote of new legislations. I think our fellow citizens will agree on that and my fellow Assemblymen and the candidates to the Assembly are already aware of this.

With our Assembly soon extended to five seats, it will be easier to perform this task of reviewing the laws.

I urge our Assembly to vote this bill before the next elections, so that our new Assembly will be able to begin this assessment work in January.

Of course, I'm open to all your objections, critics, improvements on this bill.

I thank you for your attention.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 16, 2009, 10:26:47 AM
A few comments on the economic bill:

First, good catch on the error, Fab. I'll offer a friendly amendment momentarily.

Secondly, I'll note that the GM also stated the tax cut would most definitely boost the economy of the region and increase consumption and demand. It will also decrease unemployment, thereby saving the region some money from reduced unemployment insurance.

Thirdly, I'll note the combined cost of both portions of the bill at even the worst case estimate the $32 billion federal stimulus grant would still just about pay for the entire plan for at least the first year, and at the best case scenario would pay for the entire plan for both years. Even a middle ground estimate would leave us only about $5 billion short for the second year. Please note that these estimates did not include adjustments for increased tax revenue and decreased expenditures of unemployment insurance, etc. caused by resulting economic growth.

Hopefully the increased growth might make up any of this small forcasted shortfall, and if it doesn't we can slightly scale back the spending and/or tax cut next year if necessary to make budget, or perhaps our Senator Tmth can wheedle out a tiny extra bit of stimulus from the federal government to put us over the goal line. For those of you worried about relying on extra federal money please note the amount needed to finalize the funding would be minuscule compared to this year's stimulus, and I'm only putting it out there as one of many options. If push came to shove we could readily self-fund this all this year and next year as well with only nominal rollbacks in the spending and tax cuts.

Because the numbers have been carefully worked out I'm a little leery about messing with them too much. I support your idea, Fab, of increasing funding for green energy support, but I have to agree with Swedish Cheese that replacing a 5% increase with a 50% increase is just too much too fast. Remember, there has to be sufficient infrastructure of green energy research labs, firms and trained personnel to use any funding we provide, otherwise we risk flooding a currently small sector of the energy sector with more money than they can effectively and efficiently use at this time.

Likewise, excellance in education is crucial to our long term economic security as well, so I'm likewise reluctant to reduce expanding the spending here. It's this increased educational spending that will help create the infrastructure necessary for the green energy sector of the economy to grow as I detailed above. The GM indicates the first and third portions of proposed spending increases would create the most jobs (in construction, R&D, etc.), and although the second portion would create fewer jobs, mostly focused in education, but would be successful in making the Mideast more competitive in the long-run.

Nevertheless, in the spirit of compromise and maintaining the fiscal responsibility of this proposal, I'll include in my forthcoming (hopefully still friendly) amendment an increased rate of spending for green energy technology as Fab suggested, to be offset cost-wise by a slightly less increased rate of spending on education.

One final note: I think we owe it to the citizens of the Mideast to pass this important and necessary legislation before election day this week, so let's all try to make resolving and finalizing any amendments or corrections here our top priority. OK? Great! <hands in the center, on three: 1....2....3> GO TEAM MIDEAST!!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 16, 2009, 10:29:07 AM
So after a very long period of waiting, with some appreciated help from my good friend Badger and our Game Moderator's analysing and advice, I can finally introduce to you ... drumroll please...

The Mideast Save the Sinking Ship That Is Our Economy Act

Section I: The Assembly recognises the need for a lower regional corporate tax, in order to stimulate our economy and help boost employment. We therefore will offer tax cuts to businesses that are successful in creating new jobs in the region. 
Definitions: "Workforce compensation" is the value of benefits paid to employees, both full and part time, whether in form of salaries/wages or the dollar value of fringe benefits such as health insurance, etc.
   1)   Effective 1/1/10, every Mideast business, company, and corporation that is successful in increasing their overall workforce compensation, regardless of whether said increase is due to additional employees being hired or increased compensation to current employees or a combination thereof in this region with at least 5 will get a 25 % tax cut reduction equivalent to double the percentage increase for employee compensation in their corporate tax rate for 2010, up to a maximum reduction of 50%. (i.e. A 3.5% increase in employment/compensation will result in a 7% reduction in corporate taxes. 5% increase will result in a 10% tax cut, etc.)
   2) Any increase of total compensation for individual employees salary and/or benefits above $100,000 per year is excluded from calculating any reduction of corporate taxes pursuant to Section 1 above.

Section II: The Assembly proposes that a number of 10 billion dollars be used in programs designed to extend and repair the region's infrastructure, such as building new roads, bridges, tunnels and railroad, increasing and promoting train activity, and renovate decayed roads.

Section III: The funding for public schools and universities will be increased with 7 % 6% the coming two years.

Section IV: The region's funding for science for new effective and green energy will be increased with 5 % 10%.   

Section V: The funding for the initiatives in Section II, III, and IV will be drawn from the 32 billions handed to the Mideast Region through the Regional and Local Fiscal Relief Act.




The bill has been signed.  I'd like to thank the Assembly for their quick action here.

Also, if you guys can get the Amendment through the Assembly before Thursday, we can get it on the ballot along with the Assembly elections.

Thank you for your quick action as well Governor.

I'm positive that there will be a final vote on BBF's proposal before Thursday. 

Offered as a (hopefully) friendly amendment, as promised.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 16, 2009, 10:53:30 AM
One final note: I think we owe it to the citizens of the Mideast to pass this important and necessary legislation before election day this week, so let's all try to make resolving and finalizing any amendments or corrections here our top priority. OK? Great! <hands in the center, on three: 1....2....3> GO TEAM MIDEAST!!

The session doesn't end until Friday next week, so as long as we're done with it before then I'm happy, no need to stress it in order for it to pass before Thursday.

So, I'm going to intervene only on section IV.
What I stated is that 5% of increase on public spendings that are very low is little thing.

But when you have 5% of something which is very small, it's still very, very small (see, Mideast's public funding of science for new effective and green energy is VERY small; the main amount of money spent for research in these areas is of private origin, even in universities).

That's why my 50% isn't outrageous, because the basis on which you apply this 50% may not exceed 500m$.... Imagine 5% of this!

Oh terribly sorry, I completely misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were saying I was introducing a too big increase.

5% increase might indeed be a too small number to actually have much effect. To amend it to be 50% would probably be too much, but maybe 10-15% instead.

I urge our Assembly to vote this bill before the next elections, so that our new Assembly will be able to begin this assessment work in January.
   

As I told Badger, session doesn't end until Friday next week, so you guys don't have to worry about getting this passed before Thursday. We have almost two full weeks. It's the amendments we need to hurry with, so that Inks is able to put them on the ballot.   
 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on November 16, 2009, 11:01:47 AM
I as a Mideast citizen hope that this bill will be passed in swift order.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 16, 2009, 12:10:17 PM
On the economic bill:

I'm sorry to ask this again, but how much does a 1% increase represent in section III and how much a 1% increase in section IV ?

Frankly, I think we are talking about millions in section IV and about billions in section III...

Rather than proposing myself another amendment, I just suggest that, if you've worked on precise numbers (which are not secret... whatever laws on PMs ! ;)), one of you, Speaker, fellow Assemblyman or GM, gives them in front of the Assembly.

If you haven't more rpecise numbers, I would recommend to reduce the amount of section II's spendings to 9 bn $, to stay at 7% in section III and to put a 25% increase in section IV.

I don't want to seem monomaniac on this, it's just a question of common sense:
when you have 1000 which is increased by 7%, you've got 1070
when you have 20 which is increased by 5%, you've got 20.4
when you have 20 which is increased by 50%, you've got 30
What I mean is very simple when we discuss on real numbers (and when I take 1000 and 20, I'm very highly undervaluing the real difference I think...).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 16, 2009, 02:10:20 PM
I still have a problem with the first Amendment.  It seems as if it would make it illegal to defend yourself against somebody who was trying to kill you.  So if I had somebody shooting at me, it'd be illegal to shoot back.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on November 16, 2009, 02:17:30 PM
For the record, I provide Badger with permission to post my private analyses of the economic package.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 17, 2009, 05:36:09 AM
Quote
Offered as a (hopefully) friendly amendment, as promised.

Amendment accpeted as friendly unless BBF objects.



There hasn't been any debate on Big Bad Fab's amendments for 24 hours, so I herby move to vote on them.



Protection of Human Life Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  Human Life shall not be removed under any circumstance, except by law enforcement officers when allowed to use deadly force to protect threatened innocent lives and by soldiers when allowed to use deadly force against enemies in time of war. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."



Protection of Private Property Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

I. The words "private properties," are included after the word "houses," in the clause 11. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution.

II. The clause 13. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"13. Private property shall not be taken or used by another private legal entity. Private property shall not be taken by a public legal entity for public use, without just compensation."



Right to Education Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 18. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"18. All persons under eighteen shall have the right to a publicly funded, well-balanced education. All persons under fourteen are required to receive education along lines and minimal requirements set by Law, in public or private institutions or in families."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 17, 2009, 07:52:19 AM
Oups, I haven't seen our Governor's objection on my first amendment.

Sorry to put more mess, but, even if I think the word "removed" implies a notion of intent and will that is not in self-defense, I think our Governor's remark should be taken into account.

I'm deeply sorry, Mr. Speaker, but could you submit again the first proposal with my own and -last...- amendment, written as follows ?



Protection of Human Life Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  Human Life shall not be removed under any circumstance, except in case of self-defense, by law enforcement officers when allowed to use deadly force to protect threatened innocent lives and by soldiers when allowed to use deadly force against enemies in time of war. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."




Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 17, 2009, 07:54:13 AM
For the record, I provide Badger with permission to post my private analyses of the economic package.

I wish to see these analyses and these numbers before giving you a final opinion on Badger's amendment.

Anyway, with my other suggestions, you'd have to re-write some other points.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 17, 2009, 04:48:57 PM
For the record, I provide Badger with permission to post my private analyses of the economic package.

Is this like a CBO score, or just your opinion?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 17, 2009, 05:52:16 PM
Quote
Offered as a (hopefully) friendly amendment, as promised.

Amendment accpeted as friendly unless BBF objects.



There hasn't been any debate on Big Bad Fab's amendments for 24 hours, so I herby move to vote on them.



Protection of Human Life Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  Human Life shall not be removed under any circumstance, except by law enforcement officers when allowed to use deadly force to protect threatened innocent lives and by soldiers when allowed to use deadly force against enemies in time of war. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."



Protection of Private Property Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

I. The words "private properties," are included after the word "houses," in the clause 11. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution.

II. The clause 13. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"13. Private property shall not be taken or used by another private legal entity. Private property shall not be taken by a public legal entity for public use, without just compensation."



Right to Education Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 18. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"18. All persons under eighteen shall have the right to a publicly funded, well-balanced education. All persons under fourteen are required to receive education along lines and minimal requirements set by Law, in public or private institutions or in families."


NAY.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 17, 2009, 05:53:06 PM

   Re: Analysis of Funding and Economic Impact Reques
« Sent to: Badger on: November 10, 2009, 10:19:20 pm »
« You have forwarded or responded to this message. »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: Badger on November 09, 2009, 01:49:39 pm
Hi Purple State:

I'm forwarding this partial portion of a draft for the Mideast economic redevelopment bill. Other portions will address a proposal for cutting the regional corporate tax. For now though we're looking for at least a rough CBO/GAO analysis of this portion regarding both whether there is adequate stimulus or other budget funding for these spending increases (it's tough to measure % increases in dollar terms without knowing the previous year's budget), and the estimated economic growth--both short and long term--from such increased spending.

Much thanks!

Section II: The Assembly proposes that a number of 10 billion dollars be used in programs designed to extend and repair the region's infrastructure, such as building new roads, bridges, tunnels and railroad, increasing and promoting train activity, and renovate decayed roads.

Section III: The funding for public schools and universities will be increased with 7 % the coming two years.

Section IV: The region's funding for science for new effective and green energy will be increased with 5 %.   

Section V: The funding for the initiatives in Section II, III, and IV will be drawn from the 32 billions handed to the Mideast Region through the Regional and Local Fiscal Relief Act.



Goodness, the lawyer in you really shows with these analyses.

This would probably cost about $17-22 billion over two years, with the bulk of that coming in the first year. The first and third portions would create the most jobs (in construction, R&D, etc.). The second portion would create fewer jobs, mostly focused in education, but would be successful in making the Mideast more competitive in the long-run.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 17, 2009, 06:02:15 PM
The Mideast Save the Sinking Ship That Is Our Economy Act

Section I: The Assembly recognises the need for a lower regional corporate tax, in order to stimulate our economy and help boost employment. We therefore will offer tax cuts to businesses that are successful in creating new jobs in the region.   
Definitions: "Workforce compensation" is the value of benefits paid to employees, both full and part time, whether in form of salaries/wages or the dollar value of fringe benefits such as health insurance, etc.

1)   Effective 1/1/10, every Mideast business, company, and corporation that is successful in increasing their overall workforce compensation, regardless of whether said increase is due to additional employees being hired or increased compensation to current employees or a combination thereof in this region with at least 5 will get a 25 % tax cut reduction equivalent to double the percentage increase for employee compensation in their corporate tax rate for 2010, up to a maximum reduction of 50%. (i.e. A 3.5% increase in employment/compensation will result in a 7% reduction in corporate taxes. 5% increase will result in a 10% tax cut, etc.)
2)   Every Mideast business, company, and corporation that is successful in increasing their overall workforce in this region with at least 10 % will get a 50 % tax cut.
2) Any increase of total compensation for individual employees salary and/or benefits above $100,000 per year is excluded from calculating any reduction of corporate taxes pursuant to Section 1 above.



Hi Purple State:

Same deal as before re: seeking your economic and budgetary prognosis here. The idea is that any reduction in the regional tax on corporation profits will be directly tied to increases in that company's employment and/or compensation paid to employees. The plan is designed to reward companies for rewarding their employees for productivity and profits, as any increase in the compensation of current employees encourages economic growth the same as increased compensation paid for new hires.

Let me give an example: A small incorporated business employs 10 people at $10k/yr (including the value of benefits such as medical insurance, etc) equalling a total of $100,000 paid in compensation every year, which the employees spend or invest throughout the year thus supporting other businesses. Business has been decent, but the operation really doesn't need an 11th employee. So the boss decides to increase employee's wages and benefits by 10% to $11k/yr each, or adds a health insurance benefit annually costing him $1k per employee, thus raising the total compensation paid by the business, and therefore the amount spent/invested in the regional economy by the employees, to $110,000/yr. This is an equally beneficial impact on the regional economy then if the business had instead foregone the raises and hired an 11th employee at $10k/yr---the total compensation paid and channeled back into the regional economy either way is $110,000, so the tax break should reward these businesses similarly to encourage economic growth in any form and allow businesses the flexability to achieve that growth.

Please note it equally rewards new hiring as well as increased compensation for current employees, and profitable companies are more likely to hire more people to expand production than to grant current employees vast raises, so the end goal of encouraging economic growth and fighting unemployment is served just as well.

As an additional example, assume the above business hired an 11th employee, but also cut wages and benefits by about 10% (I'm rounding here) so that the total compensation paid by the business remained $100k/yr. Yes, another guy now has a job, but 10 current employees now have to cut back on spending which in turn hurts local Mideast businesses who rely on those employees. Net economic growth in this scenario: zero. I'm sure you'll agree there should accordingly be no special tax benefits granted in this situation.

A final note (long-winded, aren't I?) ;-) : We set a maximum level of yearly compensation per employee eligible for this tax break of $100k/yr. Otherwise a company with 100 employees with a total combined compensation of $10 million could see the CEO grant himself a raise from $1mil a year to $2 mill while not granting the rest of the company raises and making no new hires, yet his raise would otherwise be subject for a tax break under this proposal! That is the exact opposite of what is needed to spur economic growth in the region, and we certainly don't want to subsidize that kind of corporate greed with taxpayer dollars.

Your insight, along with any analysis regarding economic and budgetary impact from the Mideast Assembly Budget Office and/or Mideast General Accounting Office, is strongly invited! ;-)


Okay, on this I cannot give you exact numbers. Assume this will cost $15-20 billion. It will most definitely boost the economy of the region and increase consumption and demand. It will also decrease unemployment, thereby saving the region some money from reduced unemployment insurance.

My one recommendation is to set an expiration date for this. Perhaps the end of the year is feasible.

Great work to you and SC on these bills.


A quick note that I sbsequently pointed out to Purple State the bill addresses only 2010 corporate taxes (unless the Assembly later decides to renew it after next year).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on November 17, 2009, 11:31:32 PM
For the record, I provide Badger with permission to post my private analyses of the economic package.

Is this like a CBO score, or just your opinion?

You can now see them, but essentially it is as close to a cost estimation and impact analysis as I, in my limited wisdom, could muster.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 18, 2009, 03:09:35 AM
Oups, I haven't seen our Governor's objection on my first amendment.

Sorry to put more mess, but, even if I think the word "removed" implies a notion of intent and will that is not in self-defense, I think our Governor's remark should be taken into account.

I'm deeply sorry, Mr. Speaker, but could you submit again the first proposal with my own and -last...- amendment, written as follows ?



Protection of Human Life Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  Human Life shall not be removed under any circumstance, except in case of self-defense, by law enforcement officers when allowed to use deadly force to protect threatened innocent lives and by soldiers when allowed to use deadly force against enemies in time of war. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."



What happened to "This is the last version of this I'm writting no matter what."? :P

Don't worry. I'm not sure I'm actually allowed to do this... but oh well.

Quote
Protection of Human Life Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  Human Life shall not be removed under any circumstance, except by law enforcement officers when allowed to use deadly force to protect threatened innocent lives and by soldiers when allowed to use deadly force against enemies in time of war. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."

 ^^^ Unless Badger has any objections, this proposal is temporarely withdrawn from voting on request of it's sponsor to be further amended. The voting however continues on the other two amendments.

Unless it is further debated, I will be able to open a vote on the new last version, around 14.00 today Central European Time.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 18, 2009, 05:55:50 AM


Protection of Private Property Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

I. The words "private properties," are included after the word "houses," in the clause 11. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution.

II. The clause 13. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"13. Private property shall not be taken or used by another private legal entity. Private property shall not be taken by a public legal entity for public use, without just compensation."



AYE



Right to Education Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 18. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"18. All persons under eighteen shall have the right to a publicly funded, well-balanced education. All persons under fourteen are required to receive education along lines and minimal requirements set by Law, in public or private institutions or in families."



AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 18, 2009, 06:07:12 AM
Protection of Private Property Amendment

   Nay

Right to Education Amendment

   Aye



With one vote in favour and two votes against, the Protection of Private Property Amendment fails.

With two votes in favour, and one against, the Right to Education Amendment pass. Inks you know what to do.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 18, 2009, 09:15:07 AM
Protection of Private Property Amendment

   Nay

Right to Education Amendment

   Aye



With one vote in favour and two votes against, the Protection of Private Property Amendment fails.

With two votes in favour, and one against, the Right to Education Amendment pass. Inks you know what to do.

I'm sorry, I did not realize that we were voting on these three proposals separately. Otherwise I would have voted for the Right to Education Amendment. No matter as it passed anyway, but I want to state my support of the measure for the record.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 18, 2009, 09:18:48 AM
Oups, I haven't seen our Governor's objection on my first amendment.

Sorry to put more mess, but, even if I think the word "removed" implies a notion of intent and will that is not in self-defense, I think our Governor's remark should be taken into account.

I'm deeply sorry, Mr. Speaker, but could you submit again the first proposal with my own and -last...- amendment, written as follows ?



Protection of Human Life Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  Human Life shall not be removed under any circumstance, except in case of self-defense, by law enforcement officers when allowed to use deadly force to protect threatened innocent lives and by soldiers when allowed to use deadly force against enemies in time of war. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."



What happened to "This is the last version of this I'm writting no matter what."? :P

Don't worry. I'm not sure I'm actually allowed to do this... but oh well.

Quote
Protection of Human Life Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  Human Life shall not be removed under any circumstance, except by law enforcement officers when allowed to use deadly force to protect threatened innocent lives and by soldiers when allowed to use deadly force against enemies in time of war. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."

 ^^^ Unless Badger has any objections, this proposal is temporarely withdrawn from voting on request of it's sponsor to be further amended. The voting however continues on the other two amendments.

Unless it is further debated, I will be able to open a vote on the new last version, around 14.00 today Central European Time.


No objection, though I would still oppose this amended version for previously stated reasons.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 18, 2009, 09:24:57 AM
Quote
Protection of Human Life Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  Human Life shall not be removed under any circumstance, except in case of self-defense, by law enforcement officers when allowed to use deadly force to protect threatened innocent lives and by soldiers when allowed to use deadly force against enemies in time of war. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."

Since Badger didn't have any objections, I move to a vote on this amended version of the Protection of Human Life Amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 18, 2009, 10:01:09 AM
Protection of Human Life Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  Human Life shall not be removed under any circumstance, except in case of self-defense, by law enforcement officers when allowed to use deadly force to protect threatened innocent lives and by soldiers when allowed to use deadly force against enemies in time of war. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."



AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 18, 2009, 11:31:30 AM
Protection of Human Life Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

The clause 1. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"1.  Human Life shall not be removed under any circumstance, except in case of self-defense, by law enforcement officers when allowed to use deadly force to protect threatened innocent lives and by soldiers when allowed to use deadly force against enemies in time of war. No person shall be denied of Liberty or Property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of Law."



AYE

NAY.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 18, 2009, 09:44:50 PM
I just realized something. This constitutional provision allows exceptions for SELF-defense, and use of deadly force to protect others by police officers, but does NOT permit the taking of life in defense of third parties! If some criminal attacked my wife and baby with a weapon and I killed him to protect my family members from harm, I would have no defense under this constitutional provision. I think we can all agree this is a fatal oversight.

And, yes, I'm sorry but I have to object to the matter being redrafted for even further debate at this point, at least until we get the economic development bill passed. After that I have no objection to it being resubmitted. But for now I would suggest the matter be tabled.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 19, 2009, 12:54:10 AM
Considering that we don't have a certified vote, and I have a lot of stuff to do tomorrow, I'm not going to put the amendments on the ballot.  I commend the Assembly for trying, but let's not rush this - let's get it right.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 19, 2009, 03:48:58 AM
And, yes, I'm sorry but I have to object to the matter being redrafted for even further debate at this point, at least until we get the economic development bill passed. After that I have no objection to it being resubmitted. But for now I would suggest the matter be tabled.

I understand your objection, as the debate on this has been chaotic and mostly because of me.
That's up to our Speaker now and I would understand if he votes "nay" or if he eventually decides to stop the voting due to your procedural objection.

So, my fellow Assemblymen, don't worry, I wouldn't protest against any final decision.


As for your first objection, well, in French, "légitime défense" legally includes defense of your own family, of those whom you are legally responsible for;
but, if "self-defense" hasn't the same meaning in English, I'm sorry again that my bad legal English weakens again my proposals here... ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 19, 2009, 04:16:31 AM
As for your first objection, well, in French, "légitime défense" legally includes defense of your own family, of those whom you are legally responsible for;
but, if "self-defense" hasn't the same meaning in English, I'm sorry again that my bad legal English weakens again my proposals here... ;)

English is a bloody comlicated language. I too assumed self-defense included defense of a third party as well, otherwise I'd have pointed it out earlier.

I think it might be wise to table this amendment and return to it once we've dealt with the Economy Act, as well as your other bill, so that we can work on this in debth. I would for example like to explorse how this proposal would affect current euthonesia legislation.

However since it is unlikely to happen before the next Assembly, I'll leave the final decission to you, as that Assembly might very well be more negative to such legislation.   

 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 19, 2009, 04:22:15 AM
As for your first objection, well, in French, "légitime défense" legally includes defense of your own family, of those whom you are legally responsible for;
but, if "self-defense" hasn't the same meaning in English, I'm sorry again that my bad legal English weakens again my proposals here... ;)

English is a bloody comlicated language. I too assumed self-defense included defense of a third party as well, otherwise I'd have pointed it out earlier.

I think it might be wise to table this amendment and return to it once we've dealt with the Economy Act, as well as your other bill, so that we can work on this in debth. I would for example like to explorse how this proposal would affect current euthonesia legislation.

However since it is unlikely to happen before the next Assembly, I'll leave the final decission to you, as that Assembly might very well be more negative to such legislation.   


I'm a reasonable guy: I've tried to push this amendment but with no success so far.
So I agree with your proposal. Let's table this amendment and we'll discuss it later, i.e. after your economy proposal and after my "constant assessment" proposal.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 19, 2009, 04:42:50 AM
The Protection of Human Life Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution is withdrawn from voting and temporarely tabled to be discussed further after we've dealt with the other matters currently debated by the assembly.


   

Unless Badger and Big Bad Fab, has any more concerns that have yet to be adressed about the Save the Sinking Ship That Is Our Economy, I'd like to proceed with that bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 19, 2009, 05:02:54 AM
I'm sorry, Mr. Speaker, but I'm still waiting for numbers from our dear Badger, after the GM has allowed him to give them to the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on November 19, 2009, 10:38:53 AM
I'm sorry, Mr. Speaker, but I'm still waiting for numbers from our dear Badger, after the GM has allowed him to give them to the Assembly.

Alrighty, I'll just post here, rather than use Badger or SC as middlemen on this.

It is terribly difficult to know exactly how much each region spends annually on specific items, mainly because the regions have no clear budgets. That said, the region does currently spend quite a bit on education, much more so than it spends on environmental matters.

The one reason I would caution against reductions in the education stimulus is that the fall in tax revenue has made it extremely difficult for the region to pay teachers, forcing layoffs and pay cuts. The 7% apportioned by this bill would help the government properly pay its teachers, as well as continue to improve the system. Also, bear in mind that infrastructure spending can be used to weatherize buildings, improve energy efficiency, etc.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 19, 2009, 12:17:54 PM
Well....

As nobody can give numbers (and I don't blame anyone, as I have no numbers myself), I can give you the French situation:

for public schools and universities, it's 85 bn Euros
but without the buildings of degrees before the Baccalaureat, at 18 years old and without the technical, cooking and cleaning staff, 2 areas where the local public entities are competent,
so the total is: 115 bn Euros.

Now, public support for science and research in green energy (and even in all green technical processes, including green car, for example):
at most (I include all "green" research...), 1.5 bn Euros....

And, what is more, in France, public support for R&D and science is huge (it is the private financing which is weak, contrary to the US).

See what I meant ?

5% of 1.5 bn Euros is ridiculous,
7% of 115 bn Euros is massive.

I'm not saying that we should cut the 7%. I'm saying 5% in for "green" science and research is far too small to be effective.

So, maybe we can set the increase at, at least, 30% and cut the sums for infrastructure a bit... (by 1 bn $ for example)

Maybe our Speaker can make a new proposal on these numbers. Or may he prefer that I introduce a friendly amendment ?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 19, 2009, 12:38:09 PM
Have we had certification on any of the votes yet?  What's passed and what hasn't?  It's my understanding that 2 votes have succeeded, we're just waiting on the Speaker to announce those results.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 20, 2009, 12:30:16 AM
Well....

As nobody can give numbers (and I don't blame anyone, as I have no numbers myself), I can give you the French situation:

for public schools and universities, it's 85 bn Euros
but without the buildings of degrees before the Baccalaureat, at 18 years old and without the technical, cooking and cleaning staff, 2 areas where the local public entities are competent,
so the total is: 115 bn Euros.

Now, public support for science and research in green energy (and even in all green technical processes, including green car, for example):
at most (I include all "green" research...), 1.5 bn Euros....

And, what is more, in France, public support for R&D and science is huge (it is the private financing which is weak, contrary to the US).

See what I meant ?

5% of 1.5 bn Euros is ridiculous,
7% of 115 bn Euros is massive.

I'm not saying that we should cut the 7%. I'm saying 5% in for "green" science and research is far too small to be effective.

So, maybe we can set the increase at, at least, 30% and cut the sums for infrastructure a bit... (by 1 bn $ for example)

Maybe our Speaker can make a new proposal on these numbers. Or may he prefer that I introduce a friendly amendment ?


I agree with your general analysis here, Fab: A minor difference in the rate of education spending will be much greater than a change in the rate of green energy research as the former has SOOO much larger a baseline figure. That said, I still worry whether we would flood the green enercy market with more money than its infrastructure can handle so soon. However, it seems that there is a consensus for the need to rapidly exand green energy tehcnology funding in the coming years for both environmental and economic reasons.

Think about it: Why can't the Mideast region be the center of developing solar, wind, geothermal, safe nuclear energy not only for Atlasia, but the entire world?

I'll meet you far more than halfway: How's this amendment guys?
So after a very long period of waiting, with some appreciated help from my good friend Badger and our Game Moderator's analysing and advice, I can finally introduce to you ... drumroll please...

The Mideast Save the Sinking Ship That Is Our Economy Act

Section I: The Assembly recognises the need for a lower regional corporate tax, in order to stimulate our economy and help boost employment. We therefore will offer tax cuts to businesses that are successful in creating new jobs in the region. 
Definitions: "Workforce compensation" is the value of benefits paid to employees, both full and part time, whether in form of salaries/wages or the dollar value of fringe benefits such as health insurance, etc.
   1)   Effective 1/1/10, every Mideast business, company, and corporation that is successful in increasing their overall workforce compensation, regardless of whether said increase is due to additional employees being hired or increased compensation to current employees or a combination thereof in this region with at least 5 will get a 25 % tax cut reduction equivalent to double the percentage increase for employee compensation in their corporate tax rate for 2010, up to a maximum reduction of 50%. (i.e. A 3.5% increase in employment/compensation will result in a 7% reduction in corporate taxes. 5% increase will result in a 10% tax cut, etc.)
   2) Any increase of total compensation for individual employees salary and/or benefits above $100,000 per year is excluded from calculating any reduction of corporate taxes pursuant to Section 1 above.

Section II: The Assembly proposes that a number of 10 9 billion dollars be used in programs designed to extend and repair the region's infrastructure, such as building new roads, bridges, tunnels and railroad, increasing and promoting train activity, and renovate decayed roads.

Section III: The funding for public schools and universities will be increased by 7% the coming two years.

Section IV: The region's funding for science for new effective and green energy will be increased with 5 % 25%.   

Section V: The funding for the initiatives in Section II, III, and IV will be drawn from the 32 billions handed to the Mideast Region through the Regional and Local Fiscal Relief Act.



Whaddya think guys? Time for a vote maybe?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 20, 2009, 02:41:20 AM
Dear Assemblyman Badger, your amendment is perfect for me.

Of course, I let the last word to our dear Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 20, 2009, 03:06:25 AM
Since Big Bad Fab didn't have any objections, the amendment is accepted as friendly.

Quote
Whaddya think guys? Time for a vote maybe?

I'm ready when you guys are ready.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 20, 2009, 06:18:49 AM
Since Big Bad Fab didn't have any objections, the amendment is accepted as friendly.

Quote
Whaddya think guys? Time for a vote maybe?

I'm ready when you guys are ready.
Ready. Steady. Go, Mr Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 20, 2009, 06:59:49 AM
The Mideast Save the Sinking Ship That Is Our Economy Act

Section I: The Assembly recognises the need for a lower regional corporate tax, in order to stimulate our economy and help boost employment. We therefore will offer tax cuts to businesses that are successful in creating new jobs in the region. 
Definitions: "Workforce compensation" is the value of benefits paid to employees, both full and part time, whether in form of salaries/wages or the dollar value of fringe benefits such as health insurance, etc.
   1)   Effective 1/1/10, every Mideast business, company, and corporation that is successful in increasing their overall workforce compensation, regardless of whether said increase is due to additional employees being hired or increased compensation to current employees or a combination thereof in this region with at least 5 will get a tax cut reduction equivalent to double the percentage increase for employee compensation in their corporate tax rate for 2010, up to a maximum reduction of 50%. (i.e. A 3.5% increase in employment/compensation will result in a 7% reduction in corporate taxes. 5% increase will result in a 10% tax cut, etc.)
   2) Any increase of total compensation for individual employees salary and/or benefits above $100,000 per year is excluded from calculating any reduction of corporate taxes pursuant to Section 1 above.

Section II: The Assembly proposes that a number of 9 billion dollars be used in programs designed to extend and repair the region's infrastructure, such as building new roads, bridges, tunnels and railroad, increasing and promoting train activity, and renovate decayed roads.

Section III: The funding for public schools and universities will be increased by 7% the coming two years.

Section IV: The region's funding for science for new effective and green energy will be increased with 25%.   

Section V: The funding for the initiatives in Section II, III, and IV will be drawn from the 32 billions handed to the Mideast Region through the Regional and Local Fiscal Relief Act.



I call for a vote on this proposal. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 20, 2009, 07:07:07 AM
The Mideast Save the Sinking Ship That Is Our Economy Act

Section I: The Assembly recognises the need for a lower regional corporate tax, in order to stimulate our economy and help boost employment. We therefore will offer tax cuts to businesses that are successful in creating new jobs in the region. 
Definitions: "Workforce compensation" is the value of benefits paid to employees, both full and part time, whether in form of salaries/wages or the dollar value of fringe benefits such as health insurance, etc.
   1)   Effective 1/1/10, every Mideast business, company, and corporation that is successful in increasing their overall workforce compensation, regardless of whether said increase is due to additional employees being hired or increased compensation to current employees or a combination thereof in this region with at least 5 will get a tax cut reduction equivalent to double the percentage increase for employee compensation in their corporate tax rate for 2010, up to a maximum reduction of 50%. (i.e. A 3.5% increase in employment/compensation will result in a 7% reduction in corporate taxes. 5% increase will result in a 10% tax cut, etc.)
   2) Any increase of total compensation for individual employees salary and/or benefits above $100,000 per year is excluded from calculating any reduction of corporate taxes pursuant to Section 1 above.

Section II: The Assembly proposes that a number of 9 billion dollars be used in programs designed to extend and repair the region's infrastructure, such as building new roads, bridges, tunnels and railroad, increasing and promoting train activity, and renovate decayed roads.

Section III: The funding for public schools and universities will be increased by 7% the coming two years.

Section IV: The region's funding for science for new effective and green energy will be increased with 25%.   

Section V: The funding for the initiatives in Section II, III, and IV will be drawn from the 32 billions handed to the Mideast Region through the Regional and Local Fiscal Relief Act.




AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 20, 2009, 08:45:22 AM
The Mideast Save the Sinking Ship That Is Our Economy Act

Section I: The Assembly recognises the need for a lower regional corporate tax, in order to stimulate our economy and help boost employment. We therefore will offer tax cuts to businesses that are successful in creating new jobs in the region. 
Definitions: "Workforce compensation" is the value of benefits paid to employees, both full and part time, whether in form of salaries/wages or the dollar value of fringe benefits such as health insurance, etc.
   1)   Effective 1/1/10, every Mideast business, company, and corporation that is successful in increasing their overall workforce compensation, regardless of whether said increase is due to additional employees being hired or increased compensation to current employees or a combination thereof in this region with at least 5 will get a tax cut reduction equivalent to double the percentage increase for employee compensation in their corporate tax rate for 2010, up to a maximum reduction of 50%. (i.e. A 3.5% increase in employment/compensation will result in a 7% reduction in corporate taxes. 5% increase will result in a 10% tax cut, etc.)
   2) Any increase of total compensation for individual employees salary and/or benefits above $100,000 per year is excluded from calculating any reduction of corporate taxes pursuant to Section 1 above.

Section II: The Assembly proposes that a number of 9 billion dollars be used in programs designed to extend and repair the region's infrastructure, such as building new roads, bridges, tunnels and railroad, increasing and promoting train activity, and renovate decayed roads.

Section III: The funding for public schools and universities will be increased by 7% the coming two years.

Section IV: The region's funding for science for new effective and green energy will be increased with 25%.   

Section V: The funding for the initiatives in Section II, III, and IV will be drawn from the 32 billions handed to the Mideast Region through the Regional and Local Fiscal Relief Act.



I call for a vote on this proposal. :)

AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 20, 2009, 09:53:33 AM
The Mideast Save the Sinking Ship That Is Our Economy Act

Section I: The Assembly recognises the need for a lower regional corporate tax, in order to stimulate our economy and help boost employment. We therefore will offer tax cuts to businesses that are successful in creating new jobs in the region. 
Definitions: "Workforce compensation" is the value of benefits paid to employees, both full and part time, whether in form of salaries/wages or the dollar value of fringe benefits such as health insurance, etc.
   1)   Effective 1/1/10, every Mideast business, company, and corporation that is successful in increasing their overall workforce compensation, regardless of whether said increase is due to additional employees being hired or increased compensation to current employees or a combination thereof in this region with at least 5 will get a tax cut reduction equivalent to double the percentage increase for employee compensation in their corporate tax rate for 2010, up to a maximum reduction of 50%. (i.e. A 3.5% increase in employment/compensation will result in a 7% reduction in corporate taxes. 5% increase will result in a 10% tax cut, etc.)
   2) Any increase of total compensation for individual employees salary and/or benefits above $100,000 per year is excluded from calculating any reduction of corporate taxes pursuant to Section 1 above.

Section II: The Assembly proposes that a number of 9 billion dollars be used in programs designed to extend and repair the region's infrastructure, such as building new roads, bridges, tunnels and railroad, increasing and promoting train activity, and renovate decayed roads.

Section III: The funding for public schools and universities will be increased by 7% the coming two years.

Section IV: The region's funding for science for new effective and green energy will be increased with 25%.   

Section V: The funding for the initiatives in Section II, III, and IV will be drawn from the 32 billions handed to the Mideast Region through the Regional and Local Fiscal Relief Act.



I call for a vote on this proposal. :)

  Aye



The bill pass and is transferred to the Governor's office for his signature or veto.

Yay :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 21, 2009, 04:52:41 AM
Ok less than a week left, let's move on to the next subject.

The Periodical Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government Bill

I. Each year, the Assembly reviews the Statute Laws which came into force 5 years earlier, in order to check their lasting usefulness, to scrap Statute Laws that have become useless or to amend Statute Laws that have more downsides than upsides.

II. To that aim, an Assemblyman shall submit an "Assessement Report" to the Assembly regarding each law referred to in clause I.
After having consulted the Governor's office, every accurate administrative entity, the other members of the Assembly, the Atlasia Game Master and a number of citizens, and having checked the overall and additional costs, the financial implications and the results of the law, the Assemblyman writes an "Assessment Report".

III. The "Assessment Report" shall give a statement:
a. on the overall and the additional costs of the law,
b. on the current risks and the possible future risks (at least in the following areas: constitutional risks, safety and human risks, security risks, financial risks),
c. on the upsides and downsides and on the efficiency of the law in comparison with its original aims and with the means it uses or its implementation implies,
d. on its compatibility with the Constitution and with other Statute Laws.
The report shall conclude whether the law can be let unchanged or needs to be repealed or amended, due to incompatibility, to uselessness, to excessive risks or to excessive costs.
The Assemblyman who has written the report shall introduce at the same time a bill to repeal or amend the law if the report concludes so.

IV. Each year, before the end of January, the Assembly by a majority vote or its Speaker if no majority is reached shares out between the Assemblymen (including the Speaker) the reviewing work of all the Statute Laws which came into force in the preceding 5th year.



The title of my proposal seems to be clear: we must review periodically our legislation, in order to simplify it, to amend it, to improve it, as reality changes, evolves faster and faster, as our financial resources are under strain, as our Government needs to remain not too big and to act humbly and moderately.

The assessment of legislation is almost as important a work than the vote of new legislations. I think our fellow citizens will agree on that and my fellow Assemblymen and the candidates to the Assembly are already aware of this.

With our Assembly soon extended to five seats, it will be easier to perform this task of reviewing the laws.

I urge our Assembly to vote this bill before the next elections, so that our new Assembly will be able to begin this assessment work in January.

Of course, I'm open to all your objections, critics, improvements on this bill.

I thank you for your attention.

Ok the first thing I'd like to address with this bill is the following

Quote
Each year, the Assembly reviews the Statute Laws which came into force 5 years earlier

I believe some clairification on this is needed. Do you mean five actual years or do you mean five months? Here in Atlasia we often use months as years, for example we have four month long presidential terms instead of four years, so I'm asuming this is what you mean. However the bill should still say five months earlier, not five years. But then since you say:

Quote
Each year, before the end of January

I guess that you very well mean actual years.

I want to clear this up before making my other points on this legislation.


     

     



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 21, 2009, 04:32:23 PM
It's 5 actual years.
In 2010, we will review all the Statute Laws adopted in 2005 (1st year of Atlasia).
In 2011, all the Laws adopted in 2006, etc.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on November 21, 2009, 04:40:19 PM
Five years is too long in my opinion.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 21, 2009, 04:48:35 PM

There are some reasons for my choice:
- we need to review EVERY law, so we need to start with 2005,
- reviewing SERIOUSLY is quite a work and, even if we're 5 now, it will take time,
- we must let some time for a law to be implemented completely and with some hindsight.

Therefore, I've opted for this delay of reviewing.

That must be a great step forward for our region and it may be extended in all Atlasia...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 23, 2009, 03:26:21 AM
I too think five years might be a bit too long.

As you pointed out, five years is how long Atlasia has existed at this point, a very long time in other words. Few RPGs live this long, and it is very likely that this game has long been ended at the point it's time to review the statue laws we pass today. Therefore to make the time from a laws passage to the time it will be reviewed five years, would be way too long if you ask me.   

I also believe most statue laws that was passed in the Mideast in 05 has already been changed or altered in some way or another. If we were to dig up the statue laws from then, two-thirds would most likely be afterwords amended or repealed. Not to mention that before we had an active assembly, there wasn't as much regional law made as there is now. So the number of laws from 05 that actually would need a review is probably pretty small.

I would instead suggest two years. It's not a too short period, nor a too long.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 23, 2009, 03:45:36 AM
I too think five years might be a bit too long.

As you pointed out, five years is how long Atlasia has existed at this point, a very long time in other words. Few RPGs live this long, and it is very likely that this game has long been ended at the point it's time to review the statue laws we pass today. Therefore to make the time from a laws passage to the time it will be reviewed five years, would be way too long if you ask me.   

I also believe most statue laws that was passed in the Mideast in 05 has already been changed or altered in some way or another. If we were to dig up the statue laws from then, two-thirds would most likely be afterwords amended or repealed. Not to mention that before we had an active assembly, there wasn't as much regional law made as there is now. So the number of laws from 05 that actually would need a review is probably pretty small.

I would instead suggest two years. It's not a too short period, nor a too long.


I'm open on this and 2 years may be well;
still, there is the "stock" of laws passed in 2005, 2006 and 2007. Should we review them throughout the first year of implementation of my proposed bill ?

Or do you intend to make the bill effective only for future statue laws ? That wouldn't be fair and would miss a big part of the aims of this reviewing.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 23, 2009, 05:56:06 AM
I too think five years might be a bit too long.

As you pointed out, five years is how long Atlasia has existed at this point, a very long time in other words. Few RPGs live this long, and it is very likely that this game has long been ended at the point it's time to review the statue laws we pass today. Therefore to make the time from a laws passage to the time it will be reviewed five years, would be way too long if you ask me.   

I also believe most statue laws that was passed in the Mideast in 05 has already been changed or altered in some way or another. If we were to dig up the statue laws from then, two-thirds would most likely be afterwords amended or repealed. Not to mention that before we had an active assembly, there wasn't as much regional law made as there is now. So the number of laws from 05 that actually would need a review is probably pretty small.

I would instead suggest two years. It's not a too short period, nor a too long.


I'm open on this and 2 years may be well;
still, there is the "stock" of laws passed in 2005, 2006 and 2007. Should we review them throughout the first year of implementation of my proposed bill ?

Or do you intend to make the bill effective only for future statue laws ? That wouldn't be fair and would miss a big part of the aims of this reviewing.

I will have to look it up to be entierly sure, but considering we didn't have an assembly in 05, 06, and 07 I think the amount of statue law to review from those years are about as big as the amount from 08 when the assembly was introduced, so I think we'd be able to review all the statue laws passed those years in one year. 

I'll have to look how many statue laws from those years exactly we have however.

And no, the point of the bill is obviously to get all our old statue reviwed, so I do of course support the bill including legislation passed in previous years and not just be implamented in the future.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 23, 2009, 08:21:00 AM
Pleased to hear it from you, Mr. Speaker.

The "stock" may indeed be manageable in the first year or the first 2 years.

May I add that my proposal will also be a way to (push everyone to) ensure that we've got an updated and complete list of our Laws and of their text ? ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 23, 2009, 10:36:44 AM
May I add that my proposal will also be a way to (push everyone to) ensure that we've got an updated and complete list of our Laws and of their text ? ;)

Something we truely need. Everytime I need to search for a Mideast regional law, I envy the tidy and orderly list with legislation past and present the Senate has for federal law.

 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 23, 2009, 01:16:14 PM
May I add that my proposal will also be a way to (push everyone to) ensure that we've got an updated and complete list of our Laws and of their text ? ;)

Something we truely need. Everytime I need to search for a Mideast regional law, I envy the tidy and orderly list with legislation past and present the Senate has for federal law.

 

I know, I know - I was working on it for a bit and got about another 7% done last week, but I'm still way too far behind.  I'll work on it some today hopefully.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 24, 2009, 06:55:46 PM
I have nominated Peter for the position of Superior Court Judge, whose tenure will last through the case Badger & Benconstine v. Inks.LWC


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 24, 2009, 07:04:52 PM
I have nominated Peter for the position of Superior Court Judge, whose tenure will last through the case Badger & Benconstine v. Inks.LWC

Although I believe the Governor's choice is a good one, for reasons stated by Fab and my own involvement with the case I believe I must vote:

ABSTAIN


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on November 24, 2009, 07:08:05 PM
Members of the Assembly,

Due to the nature of some of the discussion elsewhere, I feel I ought to elucidate my feelings on a few things.

Whilst I can never be totally sure that I have eliminated all subjective bias (we are great self-kidders after all), if appointed I will swear an additional judicial oath stating my desire to dispose of this case without regard to the identities of the parties or the political outcome of my judgement. I think in my time here I have shown that I will always put the rule of Law above my own personal feelings.

Before I received a PM from Inks asking my availability for this case, I knew little of it other than the original controversy; I had a few thoughts at the time, but fortunately I kept these to myself, and for no particular reason did I keep them to myself. Since his PM, I have read a little more into the case, naturally, but I remain open to persuasion from all parties if confirmed.

In terms of disposing of the case, if confirmed I will do my best to push arguments through quickly and to have a final opinion by the end of the weekend.

I hope this gives some feeling as to my initial thoughts, and suitability, to take the case.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 25, 2009, 04:01:07 AM
I have complete trust in Peter to be an impartial and fair judge. He has a long record as a legal expert in Atlasia, for example as a Surpreme Court Justice, and I have never heard that he  would ever have been biased in any of his decissions before, so I really doubt that he's gonna start now just for a single Assembly seat.

Like the Governor, I have confidence that Peter will not allow his own political views play any part in the decission between two candidates that are both far from his own views.

Therefore I'm glad to say that I approve of the Governor's nominee.

  Aye



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 25, 2009, 05:38:48 AM
Our Governor has chosen and I have no reason for not trusting his good choice:

AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 25, 2009, 07:41:20 AM
Peter is herby confirmed as Superior Court Judge of the Mideast Region with the vote 2-0.

Good luck with the case Peter :)

Now, Friday is coming closer, so let's get back on topic.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 25, 2009, 07:47:25 AM
Yes !

Our Governor wanted you to certify the vote on my proposed amendment to the Bill of Rights on the Right to Education.
Mayeb you should make it clear again.

And back to my bill on reviewing "old" laws: what do our fellow Assemblyman Badger think about it ?
But, Mr. Speaker you may have had other objections ?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 25, 2009, 08:41:10 AM
Yes !

Our Governor wanted you to certify the vote on my proposed amendment to the Bill of Rights on the Right to Education.
Mayeb you should make it clear again.

And back to my bill on reviewing "old" laws: what do our fellow Assemblyman Badger think about it ?
But, Mr. Speaker you may have had other objections ?


Yes, sorry I've been a tad busy. Now my trial (uh, real world that is; Atlasian one is just beginning of course) :-) is over I hope to take a therough review of it this afternoon and post then.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 25, 2009, 05:43:28 PM
May I add that my proposal will also be a way to (push everyone to) ensure that we've got an updated and complete list of our Laws and of their text ? ;)

Something we truely need. Everytime I need to search for a Mideast regional law, I envy the tidy and orderly list with legislation past and present the Senate has for federal law.

 

On this we all agree.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 25, 2009, 07:11:48 PM
I'd like to introduce to the Assembly the following:



The Periodical Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government Bill

I. Each year, the Assembly reviews the Statute Laws which came into force 5 years earlier, in order to check their lasting usefulness, to scrap Statute Laws that have become useless or to amend Statute Laws that have more downsides than upsides.

II. To that aim, an Assemblyman shall submit an "Assessement Report" to the Assembly regarding each law referred to in clause I.
After having consulted the Governor's office, every accurate administrative entity, the other members of the Assembly, the Atlasia Game Master and a number of citizens, and having checked the overall and additional costs, the financial implications and the results of the law, the Assemblyman writes an "Assessment Report".

III. The "Assessment Report" shall give a statement:
a. on the overall and the additional costs of the law,
b. on the current risks and the possible future risks (at least in the following areas: constitutional risks, safety and human risks, security risks, financial risks),
c. on the upsides and downsides and on the efficiency of the law in comparison with its original aims and with the means it uses or its implementation implies,
d. on its compatibility with the Constitution and with other Statute Laws.
The report shall conclude whether the law can be let unchanged or needs to be repealed or amended, due to incompatibility, to uselessness, to excessive risks or to excessive costs.
The Assemblyman who has written the report shall introduce at the same time a bill to repeal or amend the law if the report concludes so.

IV. Each year, before the end of January, the Assembly by a majority vote or its Speaker if no majority is reached shares out between the Assemblymen (including the Speaker) the reviewing work of all the Statute Laws which came into force in the preceding 5th year.



The title of my proposal seems to be clear: we must review periodically our legislation, in order to simplify it, to amend it, to improve it, as reality changes, evolves faster and faster, as our financial resources are under strain, as our Government needs to remain not too big and to act humbly and moderately.

The assessment of legislation is almost as important a work than the vote of new legislations. I think our fellow citizens will agree on that and my fellow Assemblymen and the candidates to the Assembly are already aware of this.

With our Assembly soon extended to five seats, it will be easier to perform this task of reviewing the laws.

I urge our Assembly to vote this bill before the next elections, so that our new Assembly will be able to begin this assessment work in January.

Of course, I'm open to all your objections, critics, improvements on this bill.

I thank you for your attention.

I have to say that I do not support this measure as it lacks either practicality or necessity.

If there are laws that are no longer effective, have outlived their puppose, or otherwise need changed it is already the full right of every Assembly member to propose the amendment or repeal of any such extraneous statutes. If there are such laws that are no longer workable, we will undoubtedly discover that either on our own or from complaints from our constituents. If a law on the books is not harming anyone and needs no change, no one complains; if the law is inhibiting Mideasterners in some unintended or unnecessary way, they report it to us quite soon I assure you.

I'm all for reviewing old laws on a case-by-case basis when there's actual concern over their continuing effectiveness, and if Fab or others additionally wish to go through old statutes individually to search for potential unreported redundancies than they are, again, wholly free to do so now. What I object to is creating a mandatory bureaucratic process that forces a needs analysis of every regional law created whether it needs it or not.

The paperwork required here seems highly burdensome: "Assessment Reports"? "Checking with every accurate administrative entity"? "Future risk analysis"? Come on, Fab--I thought conservatives wanted to reduce government paperwork and bureaucracy. ;-) this proposal, however, creates a monstrous amount of both for little more than a fishing expedition for anachronisms that bother no one.

Even in the perfect world if this could be done easily and simply I would have concerns, but in fact these "Assessment Reviews" are huge in their scope. I believe my colleagues will agree I'm not at all adverse to hard work, but the time we each would have to spend on our share of "assessment Reports" would be a dramatic drain on our time that could better spent attending to the Mideast's current problems. Even with the Assembly expanding to 5 we would likely spend at least as much time conducting assessment reviews of old legislation as we do preparing and debating new laws. To me, it's far more important the Assembly should spend its time legislating for the Mideast's future, not for it's past.

Fab, if you bring any law currently on the books before the Assembly and say "this needs to be repealed or amended because ___________", I will gladly hear you out with an open mind, and may very well agree with you too, but to create a mandatory bureaucratic scheme with mounds of reports, forms and assessments seems the height of inefficiency, quite unnecessary, and a poor use of the Assembly's time and energies which could be far better directed to addressing the region's ongoing problems.

I'll gladly continue participating in any debate here, but if you will all excuse me for the moment I have a legal brief to write.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 26, 2009, 04:09:02 AM
First of all, you may know that without a "mandatory" provision, this work of reviewing won't be done, because our Atlasia is functioning in the short time, with people trying to push a bill and then go away without EVER thinking about consequences.
That's a pretty irresponsible behaviour and this bill is also aimed at tackling this problem of RESPONSIBILITY.

I've understood your attempt to put the burden of my idea on myself... but, well, I'll also stop taking part in Atlasia one day or another and this work will have to go on.
And even before I leave, I'm not better than anyone else: without a "mandatory" provision, I probably won't be able to review every statute law.

As for the "bureaucratic" critic, well, keep cool !
A report won't be many pages long... And you know that the reference to "every accurate administrative entity" is only something the Assemblyman who will review CAN do (and something virtual here).
But in real life, it would be completely normal to check with administrative entities who work on the subject or implement the law. That's not bureaucratic, that's obvious.
What my bill wants also to point is that we vote laws without any SERIOUS and PRECISE assessment before. So, we need to checl all those laws voted throughout the years, TRYING to put figures on them or "after" them as they are already in force.

As for the names of reports, well, I have to be precise in a bill and we need to know what we are talking about. Every day, we realize that we aren't precise enough (some electoral rules, for example ;)).

There are between 12 and 25 laws to review each year: with 5 Assemblymen, it's really doable throughout one year. Of course, there is the issue of the "stock" but it can be dealt with throughout the 2 first years of implementation.

I'd add that every legislative body (even in "small governments"....) has its own workforce, able to make risk analysis and financial assessment.
What is more, a conservative wouldn't deny that a strong legislative body is, on the contrary, good for preventing the Government to expand too much.

You know that the Assembly is already reluctant (that's not a critic, just a fact) to change laws already implemented. So, my reviewing proposal won't

And, lastly, I would say that I'm not dealing with the past. I'm just dealing with the present, as these laws are our current laws, nothing else.
As for the future, well, every Assemblyman has many ideas and I have no worry about this. But we need to know our current legislation, a result of the "past" of course, but that's what partly makes us what we are. And we need first to update, review, modify, improve, check it, before always adding new laws: that's a conservative (and common-sense) stance.
Moreover, reviewing laws currently in force will OF COURSE make new ideas emerging. So it will contribute to our future also.

My bill will also be good for the future, by the way, as, when we will vote a proposal now, we'll know that it will be reviewed and we'll try to be "better" in writing it.

These are the answers I can make, hoping I've takne into account all your points.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 26, 2009, 04:14:49 PM
I'm sorry Fab, but I remain utterly unconvinced.

What if every business in the Mideast were required to undergo a similar "Assessment report" regardless of profitability, to determine whether it should stay in business? Whether government mandated or by some rogue coalition of stockholders, it would be a burdensome, needless activity that distracts from the goal of the enterprise--making money. Likewise, the proposal here distracts from our own necessary enterprise--making laws.

I think you underestimate, my friend, just how burdensome these Assessment Reports will be. The GM has more than enough on his plate beyond having to reconsider the financial/social/environmental/cultural/sociological impact of every law we've ever passed. Regardless of the amount of time spent here, the amount of time we spend chasing down every law for cost/benefit analysis distracts from the present.

Tell me Fab--specifically--exactly what laws would you seek to repeal or modify at this point due to being extraneous or past their prime?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 27, 2009, 02:40:42 AM
Ok so it's unfortunatley apperant that there'll be no resolve on this issue this session. I'm sorry as I know you wanted this to be dealt with before the new Assembly is seated BBF, but there's obviously much more to be debated before this bill is ready for a final vote.

Feel free to keep debating until later today when I adjourn the assembly, but it will have to be tabled after that until the new Assemblymen are seated and a Speaker elected.

BTW, I'm assuming that the last seat will just remain vacant until the court has decided who it really belongs to. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

   


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 27, 2009, 03:28:54 AM
I'm sorry Fab, but I remain utterly unconvinced.

What if every business in the Mideast were required to undergo a similar "Assessment report" regardless of profitability, to determine whether it should stay in business? Whether government mandated or by some rogue coalition of stockholders, it would be a burdensome, needless activity that distracts from the goal of the enterprise--making money. Likewise, the proposal here distracts from our own necessary enterprise--making laws.

I think you underestimate, my friend, just how burdensome these Assessment Reports will be. The GM has more than enough on his plate beyond having to reconsider the financial/social/environmental/cultural/sociological impact of every law we've ever passed. Regardless of the amount of time spent here, the amount of time we spend chasing down every law for cost/benefit analysis distracts from the present.

Tell me Fab--specifically--exactly what laws would you seek to repeal or modify at this point due to being extraneous or past their prime?

Your comparison is unfair.

Of course, businesses are CONSTANTLY making re-assessment of their products, services, processes, costs. Of course, this work is necessary because if you don't re-assess yourself at least periodically and never look at the real results, you are sure to make mistakes and to keep on making again and again.

Yes, this is quite a work, but it's work really needed, as we need to be RESPONSIBLE and ACCOUNTABLE in our legislative work.

Finally, I won't give you any specific example of a law that should be amended after this review, because the aim of the whole exercise is precisely to ascertain it. And I won't do it, because the debate would be too... specific indeed.

Mr. Speaker, I know that our deadline is almost reached, so this proposal will be switched to our new Assembly.
I just want to say that I think my debate with Badger won't go far away (I mean, it's an interesting one but one where we'll probably stick to our original opinions), as it's a principled one and as our fellow Assemblyman won't propose any amendment.
So, at one point, you and the new members of our Assembly should introduce amendments if you wish to, or the proposal will have to be submitted to vote.

Thanks for your attention.
Thanks for this session during which we have worked and debated wholeheartedly !


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 27, 2009, 04:27:20 PM
Really sorry for being a bit late. I was out enjoying my last full day in Stockholm. :)

Anyway, let's do this thing.

The 8th Assembly of the Mideast Region is herby adjourned Sine Die. This session is officially ended.

It's been great working with you guys :) and I will enjoy continuing it in the next Assembly with the additional help of Giovanni and whoever comes out on top from the court case.

Omnis Tuus Castra Sunt Inesse Nos (What ever that means)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 27, 2009, 04:30:06 PM
Order!

As Dean of the Assembly I declare the 9th Mideast Assembly in session. I urge my fellow assemblymen to swear in so that we can begin the process of electing a Speaker. Your nominations for the position are welcome.

 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 27, 2009, 04:36:57 PM
I nominate our current Speaker, Swedish Cheese, to continue the fine work he's been doing in the job already.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 27, 2009, 04:44:03 PM
I nominate our current Speaker, Swedish Cheese, to continue the fine work he's been doing in the job already.

This time, you've managed to be the one who did it, eh ? ;)

I second this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on November 27, 2009, 05:22:03 PM
Omnis Tuus Castra Sunt Inesse Nos (What ever that means)
All your base are belonging to us.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 27, 2009, 05:49:56 PM
Omnis Tuus Castra Sunt Inesse Nos (What ever that means)
All your base are belonging to us.

That. Is. AWESOME!! (And yes, I get the reference). ;-)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 29, 2009, 05:02:45 PM
Recent events have demonstrated the need for this amendment to the Mideast Constitution. When a lawsuit is filed, there should be no issue of politics--or accusation of politics--in having to select a justice to hear the case. Nor should there be a delay of several days to a week or more to make the determination of the judge to try the case. (no criticism of Governor Inks' handling of the current case--he handled it as expeditiously as could be expected, but why put a governor through that every time there's a lawsuit filed?).

Therefore:

THE MIDEAST CONSISTENCY IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE ACT

Article II, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Mideast Constitution is amended FROM:

"3.A nomination to the Superior Court shall only be held in the event of a need for the adjudication of a case pertaining to Mideast law within the Mideast region. The justice's tenure shall last only as long as needed to resolve the case at hand."

TO:

"3. A nomination to the Superior Court, unless terminated early by resignation or impeachment, shall be subject to reconfirmation by majority vote of the Mideastern Assembly every third session of the Assembly after initial confirmation. Should the Assembly fail to take a vote on renomination of the Superior Court Judge during the session in which the judge is normally subject to reconfirmation, it will act as if the Judge is reconfirmed accordingly. "

The second sentence is added just in case there is a busy session and no one thinks to bring the judge(s) of the Superior Court up for a reconfirmation vote (and if there hasn't been any activity in the Court, that's all too likely a scenario), the Judge will not be automatically out of a job due to the Assembly's oversight. If there is cause for concern about a Judge's performance it will surely be brought up at the session at which the judge is due for reconfirmation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2009, 01:05:02 AM
I predicted problems like these back when we changed the Judge position from a permanent one to a temporary one.  I think the amendment is good.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 30, 2009, 04:33:17 AM
Of course, we need to do something.

My problem is that only one judge isn't much and that it's better to have 3 of them to get more balanced judgements.
But I know there may be not enough active Mideasterners.

It may be hard to have non-Mideasterners as judges (not more than 2 out of 3 though). I'm not saying I'm in favour of this, but I'd like to debate on this because it's worth it and collective intelligence is better...
To begin with, it may be argued that it would be better to have 1 or 2 outsiders to get impartial judgements.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 30, 2009, 08:30:01 AM
Of course, we need to do something.

My problem is that only one judge isn't much and that it's better to have 3 of them to get more balanced judgements.
But I know there may be not enough active Mideasterners.

It may be hard to have non-Mideasterners as judges (not more than 2 out of 3 though). I'm not saying I'm in favour of this, but I'd like to debate on this because it's worth it and collective intelligence is better...
To begin with, it may be argued that it would be better to have 1 or 2 outsiders to get impartial judgements.

See bold above--I think you hit the nail on the head regarding that proposal.

I'd like to see us move to a semi-permanent justice to start and see how it works. Still, I can't say Fab's proposal might have some merit. Any other thoughts here? The idea of non-Mideasterners being more neutral has some appeal, but wouldn't they lack experience and history in our region's laws compared to a Mideastern judge?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 30, 2009, 10:25:09 AM
Of course, we need to do something.

My problem is that only one judge isn't much and that it's better to have 3 of them to get more balanced judgements.
But I know there may be not enough active Mideasterners.

It may be hard to have non-Mideasterners as judges (not more than 2 out of 3 though). I'm not saying I'm in favour of this, but I'd like to debate on this because it's worth it and collective intelligence is better...
To begin with, it may be argued that it would be better to have 1 or 2 outsiders to get impartial judgements.

See bold above--I think you hit the nail on the head regarding that proposal.

I'd like to see us move to a semi-permanent justice to start and see how it works. Still, I can't say Fab's proposal might have some merit. Any other thoughts here? The idea of non-Mideasterners being more neutral has some appeal, but wouldn't they lack experience and history in our region's laws compared to a Mideastern judge?

TBH, many of us, Mideasterners, precisely lack this experience and history... ;)
(When I say "us", it's to include myself and some others, not Badger.)
And I don't think we'd create this job just to appoint Peter permanently: even if he may be the first permanent judge, after him, there will be others...

What is more, having a outsider view may well bring other points of comparison, other legal and court practices, other precedents and examples, which may well be an asset when judging on Mideastern matters.

To continue my arguing,
- I'm always disturbed when there is only one judge, especially on constitutional matters (for electoral disputes, that's less a problem). We should aim at balanced and strongly-based judgements.
- But, to have 3 fair, clever and experienced judges, we would be forced to slash the Assembly... or, at least, the candidates to the Assembly... or the potential governors...
- Hence my proposal of non-Mideasterners.

Now that Peter is in function, I can say that I've personally suggested to our Governor (before having read our Constitution...) to nominate Peter, Gustaf and Smid: just an example of what would be a fine court in the Mideast, with 2 fair and clever outsiders (again, it's just an example; people have to agree...).

As Badger has said, any other thoughts ?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2009, 02:04:08 PM
I don't like the idea of having outsiders as Judges for the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 30, 2009, 05:32:30 PM
While there are some cons to your suggestion Fab, there's definitely some merit as well. That said, my suggestion would be to take things incrimentally. I say lets transition to a semi-permenant CJO and see how that works. We can implement further changes down the road, especially if there are still shortcomings in a single judge system.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on November 30, 2009, 05:48:43 PM
Of course, we need to do something.

My problem is that only one judge isn't much and that it's better to have 3 of them to get more balanced judgements.
But I know there may be not enough active Mideasterners.

It may be hard to have non-Mideasterners as judges (not more than 2 out of 3 though). I'm not saying I'm in favour of this, but I'd like to debate on this because it's worth it and collective intelligence is better...
To begin with, it may be argued that it would be better to have 1 or 2 outsiders to get impartial judgements.

That isn't the only problem. It also doesn't make sense, if you consider that the Supreme Court itself has only three members.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on November 30, 2009, 05:55:55 PM
Further I think that having people from other regions as Mideast judges, although well intentioned, wouldn't be a good idea. It's somewhat like the Supreme Court having someone who is not an Atlasian citizen.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on November 30, 2009, 06:21:45 PM
The problem here is how few Atlasians have legal training.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on November 30, 2009, 06:38:55 PM
OK, dear Governor, my fellow Assemblymen (effective and in-waiting),
you've convinced me.
In fact, as I myself have underlined, I wasn't so sure about my proposal: I wanted to see it debated a bit.

So, I can already say that the amendment proposed by Badger receives my agreement.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2009, 10:17:01 PM
I worry about Badger's proposal somewhat too though.  On the one hand, making it so that he needs to be reconfirmed could add political feelings of the Assembly into the mix.  On the other hand, if he's in for life, and he starts making bad decisions, it allows us to get rid of him.

But in the U.S., once you're in, you're in for life.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 30, 2009, 10:33:02 PM
I worry about Badger's proposal somewhat too though.  On the one hand, making it so that he needs to be reconfirmed could add political feelings of the Assembly into the mix.  On the other hand, if he's in for life, and he starts making bad decisions, it allows us to get rid of him.

But in the U.S., once you're in, you're in for life.

Exactly governor. I thought this would be a reasonable balance between the two.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on November 30, 2009, 11:24:38 PM
The current layout of the government in the Mideast was pretty well thought out when we made it such about a year ago. Call me an old, nostalgic fart, but I do caution against the sudden wave of expanding the Mideast government with more and more positions.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2009, 11:44:54 PM
The current layout of the government in the Mideast was pretty well thought out when we made it such about a year ago. Call me an old, nostalgic fart, but I do caution against the sudden wave of expanding the Mideast government with more and more positions.

Well, if we're arguing for nostalgia, we'd reinstate the position; however, I do agree with the GM.  We've seen in the past what happens when we inflate the government - we end up scrabling to find candidates to run, and we have people filling positions they really don't want.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on December 01, 2009, 01:29:22 AM
The current layout of the government in the Mideast was pretty well thought out when we made it such about a year ago. Call me an old, nostalgic fart, but I do caution against the sudden wave of expanding the Mideast government with more and more positions.

Well, if we're arguing for nostalgia, we'd reinstate the position; however, I do agree with the GM.  We've seen in the past what happens when we inflate the government - we end up scrabling to find candidates to run, and we have people filling positions they really don't want.

Well nostalgia for us relative new-comers. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on December 01, 2009, 03:31:44 AM
Can Giovanni go to the "swearing in" thread, so that the new Assembly is able to begin to work ?

With our Governor's answer to Badger's request after the Superior Court's decision, True Conservative is among us now, don't you think, Dean Swedish Cheese ?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on December 01, 2009, 02:10:02 PM
Quote
Can Giovanni go to the "swearing in" thread, so that the new Assembly is able to begin to work ?

Yeah this is basicly what I'm waiting for to happen, Gio seems to have gone missing. It's been almost a week now. I tried to send him a PM but it didn't work. It's all very strange.

Anyway I guess we cannot wait for him forever.



Since there has been no other nominations, I accept Badger's and Big Bad Fab's renomination of as Speaker.



- As for the bill currently under debate, I disagree that it is necessary. I think there are great advantages in having the office being non-permanent, and will not vote to have it changed.

- First, how many cases have there been this last year exactly before this? Very few! In fact since the Constitution was changed back in February, this recent case is the first one.

Now in Atlasia, although activity has gone up a lot the last months, we still have trouble filling a few offices, basicly because there too many and they have no actual funtion. Mideast Surperior Court Judge is such an office, 50 weeks out of 52. Very few would be willing to accpet that job.

- I know that people here are saying that this position won't be hard to fill, because we have Peter. Are you guys really sure about that? Have you asked him? Because I'm pretty sure that Peter decided he was going to retire from Atlasian politics (I know cause we gave him a pony ;P) and it is one thing to accept a temporary position, but are you really sure he'd be willing to make a long term comitment?

And if not Peter, who with the right legal experience would be willing to settle for this office permanently? I can think of no one.

- One issue Badger points out is that we'd have much quicker decissions if we had a permanent judge. I disagree. Sure sometimes it might go quicker, but what happens when Peterthe Superior Court Judge is out of town, has a lot of work, or is otherwise occupied in the real world? I'm sure most people here know that the Federal Surpreme Court can take quit a while to actually come to work, since they also have real world responsibilities. With the system we have now on the other hand, the Governor can appiont someone he knows for sure has time for the case.

- Another point Badger makes is that with a permanent judge we wouldn't have to worry about bickering and attacks as soon as a case is filed about wether a certain candidate is biased to one of the sides. (As unfortunatley hapened this time) But let's say we do get a case, where Peter the permanent judge clearly has a bias to one of the sides from the beginning. Then we can't stop and say, hay wait a minute, maybe this person is not the best judge for this case. But if the position is non-permanent the Governor and the Assembly together can both make sure that the case is judged by an un-biased third part.

- The arguments in favour keeping this system I believe outnumbers the arguments opposing it. As we saw in this recent case, our current system works perfectly fine, and even though we didn't have three judges nor a single permanent one, the judge temporarely appointed by the Governor and approved by the Assembly, was able to make fair, unbiased and very professional  decisson. So I fail to see why, there is such a great need to go back to the old way.       


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on December 01, 2009, 02:19:51 PM
Quote
With our Governor's answer to Badger's request after the Superior Court's decision, True Conservative is among us now, don't you think, Dean Swedish Cheese ?

Well considering that this is a question of regional law, not federal, it isn't really in the Surpreme Court's hands as the Governor said, so I think Officepark can make himself pretty comfertable here, as I doubt he's going anywhere soon.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on December 01, 2009, 02:32:05 PM
Giovanni's disappearance may be explained by this (http://newprogressive.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=proggeneral&action=display&thread=184).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on December 01, 2009, 02:37:07 PM
Giovanni's disappearance may be explained by this (http://newprogressive.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=proggeneral&action=display&thread=184).

Aha so that is what happened.

As always Peter, it's good to have you around to help us sort things out :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on December 01, 2009, 05:43:27 PM
Well I was worried about him. Anyway I agree with Swedish Cheese presiding as speaker for the next two months.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 01, 2009, 08:49:45 PM
Quote
Can Giovanni go to the "swearing in" thread, so that the new Assembly is able to begin to work ?

Yeah this is basicly what I'm waiting for to happen, Gio seems to have gone missing. It's been almost a week now. I tried to send him a PM but it didn't work. It's all very strange.

Anyway I guess we cannot wait for him forever.



Since there has been no other nominations, I accept Badger's and Big Bad Fab's renomination of as Speaker.



- As for the bill currently under debate, I disagree that it is necessary. I think there are great advantages in having the office being non-permanent, and will not vote to have it changed.

- First, how many cases have there been this last year exactly before this? Very few! In fact since the Constitution was changed back in February, this recent case is the first one.

Now in Atlasia, although activity has gone up a lot the last months, we still have trouble filling a few offices, basicly because there too many and they have no actual funtion. Mideast Surperior Court Judge is such an office, 50 weeks out of 52. Very few would be willing to accpet that job.

- I know that people here are saying that this position won't be hard to fill, because we have Peter. Are you guys really sure about that? Have you asked him? Because I'm pretty sure that Peter decided he was going to retire from Atlasian politics (I know cause we gave him a pony ;P) and it is one thing to accept a temporary position, but are you really sure he'd be willing to make a long term comitment?

And if not Peter, who with the right legal experience would be willing to settle for this office permanently? I can think of no one.

- One issue Badger points out is that we'd have much quicker decissions if we had a permanent judge. I disagree. Sure sometimes it might go quicker, but what happens when Peterthe Superior Court Judge is out of town, has a lot of work, or is otherwise occupied in the real world? I'm sure most people here know that the Federal Surpreme Court can take quit a while to actually come to work, since they also have real world responsibilities. With the system we have now on the other hand, the Governor can appiont someone he knows for sure has time for the case.

- Another point Badger makes is that with a permanent judge we wouldn't have to worry about bickering and attacks as soon as a case is filed about wether a certain candidate is biased to one of the sides. (As unfortunatley hapened this time) But let's say we do get a case, where Peter the permanent judge clearly has a bias to one of the sides from the beginning. Then we can't stop and say, hay wait a minute, maybe this person is not the best judge for this case. But if the position is non-permanent the Governor and the Assembly together can both make sure that the case is judged by an un-biased third part.

- The arguments in favour keeping this system I believe outnumbers the arguments opposing it. As we saw in this recent case, our current system works perfectly fine, and even though we didn't have three judges nor a single permanent one, the judge temporarely appointed by the Governor and approved by the Assembly, was able to make fair, unbiased and very professional  decisson. So I fail to see why, there is such a great need to go back to the old way.       


I respectfully disagree, my friend.

Nw that the case is over I can say I do in fact want Peter for the job. But the concerns you raise Swede are all theoretical, whereas the problems of accusations of politics and delay are very real as we see from the current case.

First off, we are blessed with having the most knowledgable, impartial and experienced hand in the Mideast being still active on the forum but retired from active politics. I suspect we can trust to Peter to serve as CJO for a long time. If he has a temporary absence or too close an interest in a case to hear it, THEN we pick a judge ad hoc for that case, but that should be the exception to the rule, not the other way around.

And when Peter is inevitably, someday, tired of the job and wants to step down? Do we really think that he'll be the only qualified Mideasterner not interested in being politically active? (Heck, it might very well be one of us retired from the Assembly at that point). Your concerns are highly theoretical, Mr. Speaker, and it seems far too great an assumption to believe there could be no one to replace Peter after his (likely distant) retirement.

Why not wait and see if there are indeed an utter dearth of qualified replacements for Peter? I suspect we'll find someone quallified. IF, and only if, we wind up truly lacking any qualified canidates because everyone in the Midwest either holds office or plans to run for one, then perhaps we can look to reverting to a ad hoc case by case appointment.

But you know what? I doubt we'll ever cross that bridge. ;-)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on December 02, 2009, 06:06:55 AM
Again taking the risk to be viewed as a big-government conservative (:D), I have to say that I agree with our Speaker on many very practical objections he has made, but it's only one position to fill.

And having a permanent one force the judge to remain regularly aware of all the Mideast executive and legislative work.

Besides, I think a permanent judge would be ready to review laws towards the Constitution, as a possible effect of my bill on reviewing periodically our laws.

Which leads me to urge all of you not to forget to finish the debate about my own proposal... ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on December 02, 2009, 11:07:31 AM
I believe that having a ME judge is completely necessary and we do have plenty of citizens who would be well qualified I think.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on December 02, 2009, 10:40:50 PM
I believe that having a ME judge is completely necessary and we do have plenty of citizens who would be well qualified I think.

Who besides Peter or ben would take the position?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Alexander Hamilton on December 02, 2009, 10:41:34 PM
I believe that having a ME judge is completely necessary and we do have plenty of citizens who would be well qualified I think.

Who besides Peter or ben would take the position?

I'll move to the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 02, 2009, 10:55:39 PM
I believe that having a ME judge is completely necessary and we do have plenty of citizens who would be well qualified I think.

Who besides Peter or ben would take the position?

If MasterJedi ever moves back.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Alexander Hamilton on December 02, 2009, 10:58:20 PM
ben is ineloquent and irresponsible.

Einzige and Al would be great choices, and Peter of course.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 02, 2009, 11:09:37 PM
I would support Al - he's lived in the region a long time, and has a good understanding of the laws.  I don't think he'd want the position though.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on December 02, 2009, 11:47:03 PM
The only consensus would likely be Peter or Al, but I'm not sure if either one would want the job. What is wrong with the current system?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 03, 2009, 10:44:52 PM
Again, accusations of politics every time a case is filed, plus delay of several days to find a suitable and willing candidate.

The former especially is a major problem.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on December 04, 2009, 03:40:08 AM
Still no news from Giovanni ?

I've tried to find something on elected Assemblymen who don't take the oath, but found nothing.

It should simply be viewed as an absence, shouldn't it ?
Aren't we able to keep on working ?
Provided the bills gather 3 votes in favour, I think, there is no problem in this.
If Giovanni had already taken the oath but had disappeared, it would have been the same problem, but we would have proceeded.

The point here is that, because it seems to be forced on him and it seems he is not at all responsible, we or the Governor of course can't expell him or certify he resigns, sort of (anyway, there is no rule on this... !).
So, I think we must stick to a 3-vote majority, to be legally sure and sound.

An interesting case, except that we are stalled...
And a session of ONLY 2 months...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on December 04, 2009, 09:23:16 AM
Still no news from Giovanni ?

I've tried to find something on elected Assemblymen who don't take the oath, but found nothing.

It should simply be viewed as an absence, shouldn't it ?
Aren't we able to keep on working ?
Provided the bills gather 3 votes in favour, I think, there is no problem in this.
If Giovanni had already taken the oath but had disappeared, it would have been the same problem, but we would have proceeded.

The point here is that, because it seems to be forced on him and it seems he is not at all responsible, we or the Governor of course can't expell him or certify he resigns, sort of (anyway, there is no rule on this... !).
So, I think we must stick to a 3-vote majority, to be legally sure and sound.

An interesting case, except that we are stalled...
And a session of ONLY 2 months...

As long as Gio doesn't swear in the seat is counted as vacant, and the Assembly's work can continue without him. I'm just waiting for the debate to end before I can open a vote. (Unless anyone makes a new reply on the subject that would be tomorrow morning Central European Time)

Back when I and Officepark was first appointed to the Assembly by Inks, Peter was the only actual member for a while, so as he pointed out to Inks, he could technically have introduced legislation, passed it, and overridden any veto by himself.

And I agree that since it isn't Gio's fault we need to give him more time to figure out a solution to his problem before we start considering expelling.   


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on December 05, 2009, 08:00:03 AM
Since there has been no further debate for 24 hours, I move to a vote on the following proposal:

Quote
THE MIDEAST CONSISTENCY IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE ACT

Article II, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Mideast Constitution is amended FROM:

"3.A nomination to the Superior Court shall only be held in the event of a need for the adjudication of a case pertaining to Mideast law within the Mideast region. The justice's tenure shall last only as long as needed to resolve the case at hand."

TO:

"3. A nomination to the Superior Court, unless terminated early by resignation or impeachment, shall be subject to reconfirmation by majority vote of the Mideastern Assembly every third session of the Assembly after initial confirmation. Should the Assembly fail to take a vote on renomination of the Superior Court Judge during the session in which the judge is normally subject to reconfirmation, it will act as if the Judge is reconfirmed accordingly. "

The second sentence is added just in case there is a busy session and no one thinks to bring the judge(s) of the Superior Court up for a reconfirmation vote (and if there hasn't been any activity in the Court, that's all too likely a scenario), the Judge will not be automatically out of a job due to the Assembly's oversight. If there is cause for concern about a Judge's performance it will surely be brought up at the session at which the judge is due for reconfirmation. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 05, 2009, 10:30:29 AM
Since there has been no further debate for 24 hours, I move to a vote on the following proposal:

Quote
THE MIDEAST CONSISTENCY IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE ACT

Article II, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Mideast Constitution is amended FROM:

"3.A nomination to the Superior Court shall only be held in the event of a need for the adjudication of a case pertaining to Mideast law within the Mideast region. The justice's tenure shall last only as long as needed to resolve the case at hand."

TO:

"3. A nomination to the Superior Court, unless terminated early by resignation or impeachment, shall be subject to reconfirmation by majority vote of the Mideastern Assembly every third session of the Assembly after initial confirmation. Should the Assembly fail to take a vote on renomination of the Superior Court Judge during the session in which the judge is normally subject to reconfirmation, it will act as if the Judge is reconfirmed accordingly. "

The second sentence is added just in case there is a busy session and no one thinks to bring the judge(s) of the Superior Court up for a reconfirmation vote (and if there hasn't been any activity in the Court, that's all too likely a scenario), the Judge will not be automatically out of a job due to the Assembly's oversight. If there is cause for concern about a Judge's performance it will surely be brought up at the session at which the judge is due for reconfirmation. 

AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on December 05, 2009, 12:59:31 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 05, 2009, 07:02:56 PM
Again, accusations of politics every time a case is filed, plus delay of several days to find a suitable and willing candidate.

The former especially is a major problem.

I'd argue the latter is more severe.  If we had a standing judge, we wouldn't have to often have cases where we go into the next Assembly period missing an Assemblyman - most electoral disputes would be resolved quicker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 05, 2009, 07:07:05 PM
Just a thought?  Shouldnt the amendment be worded with "recall" not "impeachment," since impeachment is never mentioned in the constitution, only recalls are?  Furthermore, impeachment implies legal wrongdoing.  Recall doesn't.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on December 05, 2009, 07:22:09 PM
Just a thought?  Shouldnt the amendment be worded with "recall" not "impeachment," since impeachment is never mentioned in the constitution, only recalls are?  Furthermore, impeachment implies legal wrongdoing.  Recall doesn't.

Inks I appreciate that you read through the bills and point out the mistakes you find in them, especially when it comes to mistake in wording and language since a respectable portion of the assembly has a native language that isn't English... but WHY do you always do it after the vote has already started? :P

 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 05, 2009, 08:01:46 PM
Just a thought?  Shouldnt the amendment be worded with "recall" not "impeachment," since impeachment is never mentioned in the constitution, only recalls are?  Furthermore, impeachment implies legal wrongdoing.  Recall doesn't.

Inks I appreciate that you read through the bills and point out the mistakes you find in them, especially when it comes to mistake in wording and language since a respectable portion of the assembly has a native language that isn't English... but WHY do you always do it after the vote has already started? :P

 

The better question is, why do you have to open voting on bills on days that I'm in Detroit watching Central Michigan win the MAC championship?  :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on December 05, 2009, 08:31:05 PM
Just a thought?  Shouldnt the amendment be worded with "recall" not "impeachment," since impeachment is never mentioned in the constitution, only recalls are?  Furthermore, impeachment implies legal wrongdoing.  Recall doesn't.

Inks I appreciate that you read through the bills and point out the mistakes you find in them, especially when it comes to mistake in wording and language since a respectable portion of the assembly has a native language that isn't English... but WHY do you always do it after the vote has already started? :P

 

The better question is, why do you have to open voting on bills on days that I'm in Detroit watching Central Michigan win the MAC championship?  :P

Hmm that is a fair question I guess ;)

Good for you  that your team won Mr Governor.

I'd like to hear what my fellow Assemblymen says before I make decission wether to stop the vote on this bill or not.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 05, 2009, 09:02:04 PM
May I offer this slightly modified version without further parlimentary ado? I added the word recall and left in impeachment just in case if there is determined a constitutional mechanism for such procedure. If there isn't, the language is mere surplusage and does no harm.

Recent events have demonstrated the need for this amendment to the Mideast Constitution. When a lawsuit is filed, there should be no issue of politics--or accusation of politics--in having to select a justice to hear the case. Nor should there be a delay of several days to a week or more to make the determination of the judge to try the case. (no criticism of Governor Inks' handling of the current case--he handled it as expeditiously as could be expected, but why put a governor through that every time there's a lawsuit filed?).

Therefore:

THE MIDEAST CONSISTENCY IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE ACT

Article II, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Mideast Constitution is amended FROM:

"3.A nomination to the Superior Court shall only be held in the event of a need for the adjudication of a case pertaining to Mideast law within the Mideast region. The justice's tenure shall last only as long as needed to resolve the case at hand."

TO:

"3. A nomination to the Superior Court, unless terminated early by resignation, recall, or impeachment, shall be subject to reconfirmation by majority vote of the Mideastern Assembly every third session of the Assembly after initial confirmation. Should the Assembly fail to take a vote on renomination of the Superior Court Judge during the session in which the judge is normally subject to reconfirmation, it will act as if the Judge is reconfirmed accordingly. "

The second sentence is added just in case there is a busy session and no one thinks to bring the judge(s) of the Superior Court up for a reconfirmation vote (and if there hasn't been any activity in the Court, that's all too likely a scenario), the Judge will not be automatically out of a job due to the Assembly's oversight. If there is cause for concern about a Judge's performance it will surely be brought up at the session at which the judge is due for reconfirmation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 06, 2009, 12:44:48 AM
But impeachment implies that he can be removed by a legislative body.  Why not just keep it at "resignation or recall" and add in impeachment if we ever establish impeachment in the Constitution?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on December 06, 2009, 05:33:16 PM
But impeachment implies that he can be removed by a legislative body.  Why not just keep it at "resignation or recall" and add in impeachment if we ever establish impeachment in the Constitution?

I agree with our Governor on this. Let's stick with the current "reality".


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 06, 2009, 06:58:47 PM
Fine.

May I offer this slightly modified version without further parlimentary ado? I added the word recall and left in impeachment just in case if there is determined a constitutional mechanism for such procedure. If there isn't, the language is mere surplusage and does no harm.

Recent events have demonstrated the need for this amendment to the Mideast Constitution. When a lawsuit is filed, there should be no issue of politics--or accusation of politics--in having to select a justice to hear the case. Nor should there be a delay of several days to a week or more to make the determination of the judge to try the case. (no criticism of Governor Inks' handling of the current case--he handled it as expeditiously as could be expected, but why put a governor through that every time there's a lawsuit filed?).

Therefore:

THE MIDEAST CONSISTENCY IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE ACT

Article II, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Mideast Constitution is amended FROM:

"3.A nomination to the Superior Court shall only be held in the event of a need for the adjudication of a case pertaining to Mideast law within the Mideast region. The justice's tenure shall last only as long as needed to resolve the case at hand."

TO:

"3. A nomination to the Superior Court, unless terminated early by resignation or recall, or impeachment shall be subject to reconfirmation by majority vote of the Mideastern Assembly every third session of the Assembly after initial confirmation. Should the Assembly fail to take a vote on renomination of the Superior Court Judge during the session in which the judge is normally subject to reconfirmation, it will act as if the Judge is reconfirmed accordingly. "

The second sentence is added just in case there is a busy session and no one thinks to bring the judge(s) of the Superior Court up for a reconfirmation vote (and if there hasn't been any activity in the Court, that's all too likely a scenario), the Judge will not be automatically out of a job due to the Assembly's oversight. If there is cause for concern about a Judge's performance it will surely be brought up at the session at which the judge is due for reconfirmation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on December 06, 2009, 09:21:57 PM
Quote
The second sentence is added just in case there is a busy session and no one thinks to bring the judge(s) of the Superior Court up for a reconfirmation vote (and if there hasn't been any activity in the Court, that's all too likely a scenario), the Judge will not be automatically out of a job due to the Assembly's oversight. If there is cause for concern about a Judge's performance it will surely be brought up at the session at which the judge is due for reconfirmation.

How come that last paragraph is there?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 07, 2009, 08:59:34 AM
Quote
The second sentence is added just in case there is a busy session and no one thinks to bring the judge(s) of the Superior Court up for a reconfirmation vote (and if there hasn't been any activity in the Court, that's all too likely a scenario), the Judge will not be automatically out of a job due to the Assembly's oversight. If there is cause for concern about a Judge's performance it will surely be brought up at the session at which the judge is due for reconfirmation.

How come that last paragraph is there?

That's not part of the bill, but rather an explanation for the second sentence of the bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on December 07, 2009, 10:41:51 AM
Quote
The second sentence is added just in case there is a busy session and no one thinks to bring the judge(s) of the Superior Court up for a reconfirmation vote (and if there hasn't been any activity in the Court, that's all too likely a scenario), the Judge will not be automatically out of a job due to the Assembly's oversight. If there is cause for concern about a Judge's performance it will surely be brought up at the session at which the judge is due for reconfirmation.

How come that last paragraph is there?

That's not part of the bill, but rather an explanation for the second sentence of the bill.

Yes but the way it's written makes me think it's part of the bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 07, 2009, 12:33:07 PM
Quote
The second sentence is added just in case there is a busy session and no one thinks to bring the judge(s) of the Superior Court up for a reconfirmation vote (and if there hasn't been any activity in the Court, that's all too likely a scenario), the Judge will not be automatically out of a job due to the Assembly's oversight. If there is cause for concern about a Judge's performance it will surely be brought up at the session at which the judge is due for reconfirmation.

How come that last paragraph is there?

That's not part of the bill, but rather an explanation for the second sentence of the bill.

Yes but the way it's written makes me think it's part of the bill.

It's not. I promise. :-)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on December 07, 2009, 01:34:21 PM
Quote
The second sentence is added just in case there is a busy session and no one thinks to bring the judge(s) of the Superior Court up for a reconfirmation vote (and if there hasn't been any activity in the Court, that's all too likely a scenario), the Judge will not be automatically out of a job due to the Assembly's oversight. If there is cause for concern about a Judge's performance it will surely be brought up at the session at which the judge is due for reconfirmation.

How come that last paragraph is there?

That's not part of the bill, but rather an explanation for the second sentence of the bill.

Yes but the way it's written makes me think it's part of the bill.

It's not. I promise. :-)

Oh, ok.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 07, 2009, 09:14:24 PM
Not to rush you guys, but if you can finish the vote on this by Wednesday night, I'd appreciate it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on December 08, 2009, 05:46:20 AM
Our Speaker may resubmit it with the new word and without the last paragraph.

I'll vote AYE almost immediately.

And has anybody news from Gio ?
Even though we can keep on working, it's a bit embarrassing, as his political positioning may well decide some votes one way or the other !
Therefore I don't push and push my Reviewing Bill again.
Therefore I don't make any new proposal.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 08, 2009, 08:23:53 AM
Aye.

Finals time is getting a lot of people, methinks.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on December 08, 2009, 09:38:41 AM
Me, I will save my vote until Swedish Cheese opens it up. I think the two of you will need to do likewise; are votes cast on a bill valid even if the vote is not yet opened?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on December 08, 2009, 09:48:29 AM
Our Speaker may resubmit it with the new word and without the last paragraph.

I'll vote AYE almost immediately.

And has anybody news from Gio ?
Even though we can keep on working, it's a bit embarrassing, as his political positioning may well decide some votes one way or the other !
Therefore I don't push and push my Reviewing Bill again.
Therefore I don't make any new proposal.

Please note the future !
I'm waiting for the vote to open on the right version.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on December 08, 2009, 09:52:09 AM
Oh, forgot that.

Though Badger still did vote. :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 08, 2009, 07:12:46 PM
Oh, forgot that.

Though Badger still did vote. :P

My bad. I read Fab's post too quickly, saw the AYE in there, and chaos ensued.

Mr. Speaker? We're all set here.....


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on December 09, 2009, 09:31:55 PM
*bump*

Still nothing from Swedish Cheese.

By the way I intend to introduce some legislation by the time we are done with this one.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 09, 2009, 11:41:39 PM
*bump*

Still nothing from Swedish Cheese.

By the way I intend to introduce some legislation by the time we are done with this one.

This is very unlike him. Hope it's just a case of finalsitis and not anything more serious.

Still no word from Gio either?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on December 10, 2009, 04:15:20 AM
Dear Speaker,
My fellow Assemblymen,

I hereby resign from my position of Mideast Assemblyman.

As I've said to our Governor, I'm sorry to say this so abruptly, even if there were some signs...

But a mix of personal and Atlasian reasons have led me to crush my intent of sticking to my word and finishing my term.

I hope you will forgive me. I'm not very proud of this but I'm so disappointed of Atlasia that I wasn't able to keep on.

I wish you the best in your fine legislative work.

Feel free to bring back my Reviewing Laws bill and updated versions of my amendments on private property and right to life.

It was a great thing to work with you to try to improve the legal environment of our great Mideast.

Yours friendly.

Big Bad Fab


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on December 10, 2009, 11:15:14 AM
Oh sorry guys. This just slipped from my attention. Voting for the amended version is herby opened.



BBF I'm really sorry to see you go. You've been a great Assemblyman, and in your time here you've done a lot for the Mideast as a legislator.



 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 10, 2009, 12:58:10 PM
Aye.

Good to see you back, Mr. Speaker. :-) Was your absence the last week a case of finals?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 10, 2009, 01:40:09 PM
Can somebody get ahold of Giovanni - what is the e-mail address he wants his activation code sent to?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 12, 2009, 12:45:55 AM
Could somebody with some free time please get me Giovanni's e-mail address?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on December 12, 2009, 01:04:37 AM
Oh sorry guys. This just slipped from my attention. Voting for the amended version is herby opened.



BBF I'm really sorry to see you go. You've been a great Assemblyman, and in your time here you've done a lot for the Mideast as a legislator.



 

Aye 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 12, 2009, 01:06:26 AM
Oh sorry guys. This just slipped from my attention. Voting for the amended version is herby opened.



BBF I'm really sorry to see you go. You've been a great Assemblyman, and in your time here you've done a lot for the Mideast as a legislator.



 

Aye 

Can he vote, since he wasn't here when the voting was opened?  Just curious about that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on December 12, 2009, 01:16:18 AM
Oh sorry guys. This just slipped from my attention. Voting for the amended version is herby opened.



BBF I'm really sorry to see you go. You've been a great Assemblyman, and in your time here you've done a lot for the Mideast as a legislator.



 

Aye 

Can he vote, since he wasn't here when the voting was opened?  Just curious about that.

I have no clue, if I can't vote then, I'm sorry I did :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on December 12, 2009, 08:03:00 AM
(Just to let you guys know, I will most likely not be able to post at all today, anymore.) Have a very busy day.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on December 12, 2009, 10:01:53 AM
Oh sorry guys. This just slipped from my attention. Voting for the amended version is herby opened.



BBF I'm really sorry to see you go. You've been a great Assemblyman, and in your time here you've done a lot for the Mideast as a legislator.



 

Aye 

Can he vote, since he wasn't here when the voting was opened?  Just curious about that.

I believe he can as the voting had not closed.

I'll see what I can do about Gio's e-mail.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Psychic Octopus on December 12, 2009, 12:13:48 PM
Where is Giovanni?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on December 13, 2009, 08:07:49 PM
Is it this bill (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=82716.msg2256308#msg2256308) that we are voting on?

If so, aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 13, 2009, 11:39:16 PM
Is it this bill (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=82716.msg2256308#msg2256308) that we are voting on?

If so, aye.

It is. And just to reiterate in case it was forgotten since this vote started, I voted "Aye".


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on December 14, 2009, 06:00:52 AM
Quote
THE MIDEAST CONSISTENCY IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE ACT

Article II, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Mideast Constitution is amended FROM
:

"3.A nomination to the Superior Court shall only be held in the event of a need for the adjudication of a case pertaining to Mideast law within the Mideast region. The justice's tenure shall last only as long as needed to resolve the case at hand."

TO:

"3. A nomination to the Superior Court, unless terminated early by resignation or recall, or impeachment shall be subject to reconfirmation by majority vote of the Mideastern Assembly every third session of the Assembly after initial confirmation. Should the Assembly fail to take a vote on renomination of the Superior Court Judge during the session in which the judge is normally subject to reconfirmation, it will act as if the Judge is reconfirmed accordingly. "

  Nay



The amendment pass. Inks you know what to do.
 

Guys I'm sorry that I've been slightly unactive here the last week, due to doing other things. It'll get better once Christmas break starts next week. Hopefully by then we will have a complete Assembly, with Gio being back and Inks having appointed someone to replace the newly elected Senator, so that we all can pull together and start working properly once more.   

The begining of this session has been rather messy, but I'm sure we can turn it back on track again. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on December 14, 2009, 06:29:05 AM
I propose the following bill to the Assembly:

Stricter Dog Fighting Policy Bill

Section I: It shall be illegal for any person to attend dog fighting events anywhere the Mideast Region. Anyone who’s caught attending a dog fight will be sentenced to a maximum fine of 600 dollars.
Section II: All fines collected from people breaking this law will be used to sponsor the construction and operation of special dog centres, designed to house and rehabilitate confiscated fight dogs, in co-operation with several animal right’s organisations.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 14, 2009, 08:21:40 AM
Quote
THE MIDEAST CONSISTENCY IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE ACT

Article II, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Mideast Constitution is amended FROM
:

"3.A nomination to the Superior Court shall only be held in the event of a need for the adjudication of a case pertaining to Mideast law within the Mideast region. The justice's tenure shall last only as long as needed to resolve the case at hand."

TO:

"3. A nomination to the Superior Court, unless terminated early by resignation or recall, or impeachment shall be subject to reconfirmation by majority vote of the Mideastern Assembly every third session of the Assembly after initial confirmation. Should the Assembly fail to take a vote on renomination of the Superior Court Judge during the session in which the judge is normally subject to reconfirmation, it will act as if the Judge is reconfirmed accordingly. "

  Nay



The amendment pass. Inks you know what to do.
 

Guys I'm sorry that I've been slightly unactive here the last week, due to doing other things. It'll get better once Christmas break starts next week. Hopefully by then we will have a complete Assembly, with Gio being back and Inks having appointed someone to replace the newly elected Senator, so that we all can pull together and start working properly once more.    

The begining of this session has been rather messy, but I'm sure we can turn it back on track again.  

Gio's back? I thought we still hadn't had any word from him.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 14, 2009, 04:28:34 PM
I propose the following bill to the Assembly:

Stricter Dog Fighting Policy Bill

Section I: It shall be illegal for any person to attend dog fighting events anywhere the Mideast Region. Anyone who’s caught attending a dog fight will be sentenced to a maximum fine of 600 dollars.
Section II: All fines collected from people breaking this law will be used to sponsor the construction and operation of special dog centres, designed to house and rehabilitate confiscated fight dogs, in co-operation with several animal right’s organisations.


I support this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on December 14, 2009, 04:31:18 PM
I propose the following bill to the Assembly:

Stricter Dog Fighting Policy Bill

Section I: It shall be illegal for any person to attend dog fighting events anywhere the Mideast Region. Anyone who’s caught attending a dog fight will be sentenced to a maximum fine of 600 dollars.
Section II: All fines collected from people breaking this law will be used to sponsor the construction and operation of special dog centres, designed to house and rehabilitate confiscated fight dogs, in co-operation with several animal right’s organisations.


I support this.

As someone who assisted SC on the development of this bill, I feel that I should sort of explain it.  The thing is that the reason that dog fighting rings often are not broken up is because there is no place to put the dogs while they are being resocialized.  In order to fight this problem we need to, along with private organizations like the ASPCA, construct places in order to allow for this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on December 14, 2009, 04:59:19 PM
I see no reason why not to support it...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Psychic Octopus on December 15, 2009, 03:24:15 PM
I think that we should give Giovanni a week to login and post, and if not, declare the position inactive. As much as I like Gio, we need a full assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on December 15, 2009, 03:50:22 PM
I think that we should give Giovanni a week to login and post, and if not, declare the position inactive. As much as I like Gio, we need a full assembly.

He's had plenty of time, IMO.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on December 15, 2009, 04:56:24 PM
I am introducing a bill I think is long needed by now:

Quote
Mideast Assembly Noticeboard Act

1. Effective January 1, 2010, there shall be a thread, titled “Mideast Assembly Noticeboard”, in the board Atlas Fantasy Elections.
2. It shall be the responsibility of the Speaker of the Assembly to maintain this thread and keep it up to date.
3. This thread shall be modeled after the Senate Noticeboards in the board Atlas Fantasy Government. It shall include a list of bills currently under debate, including the status of all such bills, a list of bills in the queue, as well as lists showing passed and rejected legislation.
4. All proposed legislation shall be submitted in the Mideast Assembly Noticeboard.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on December 15, 2009, 05:02:20 PM
BTW I see nothing from Inks regarding the Consistency in the Administration of Justice Act....


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 15, 2009, 07:28:58 PM
BTW I see nothing from Inks regarding the Consistency in the Administration of Justice Act....

Voting booths don't go up until Thursdays at noon.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 15, 2009, 07:34:48 PM
I am introducing a bill I think is long needed by now:

Quote
Mideast Assembly Noticeboard Act

1. Effective January 1, 2010, there shall be a thread, titled “Mideast Assembly Noticeboard”, in the board Atlas Fantasy Elections.
2. It shall be the responsibility of the Speaker of the Assembly to maintain this thread and keep it up to date.
3. This thread shall be modeled after the Senate Noticeboards in the board Atlas Fantasy Government. It shall include a list of bills currently under debate, including the status of all such bills, a list of bills in the queue, as well as lists showing passed and rejected legislation.
4. All proposed legislation shall be submitted in the Mideast Assembly Noticeboard.

Judging from the NE Assembly's use of such a board, this is a good idea.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on December 15, 2009, 07:41:45 PM
BTW I see nothing from Inks regarding the Consistency in the Administration of Justice Act....

Voting booths don't go up until Thursdays at noon.

Oh yes, I forgot that this was a constitutional amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on December 16, 2009, 04:28:24 AM
Stricter Dog Fighting Policy Bill

Section I: It shall be illegal for any person to attend dog fighting events anywhere the Mideast Region. Anyone who’s caught attending a dog fight will be sentenced to a maximum fine of 600 dollars.
Section II: All fines collected from people breaking this law will be used to sponsor the construction and operation of special dog centres, designed to house and rehabilitate confiscated fight dogs, in co-operation with several animal right’s organisations.

Since there has been no further debate on this bill for over 24 hours, I call for a vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on December 16, 2009, 08:18:07 AM
I am introducing a bill I think is long needed by now:

Quote
Mideast Assembly Noticeboard Act

1. Effective January 1, 2010, there shall be a thread, titled “Mideast Assembly Noticeboard”, in the board Atlas Fantasy Elections.
2. It shall be the responsibility of the Speaker of the Assembly to maintain this thread and keep it up to date.
3. This thread shall be modeled after the Senate Noticeboards in the board Atlas Fantasy Government. It shall include a list of bills currently under debate, including the status of all such bills, a list of bills in the queue, as well as lists showing passed and rejected legislation.
4. All proposed legislation shall be submitted in the Mideast Assembly Noticeboard.

Judging from the NE Assembly's use of such a board, this is a good idea.

I ask the Assembly to avoid creating additional threads that clog the Elections Board. It has never been an issue to figure out what the next piece of legislation is here, nor is there ever a particularly lengthy queue.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 16, 2009, 08:19:44 AM
Stricter Dog Fighting Policy Bill

Section I: It shall be illegal for any person to attend dog fighting events anywhere the Mideast Region. Anyone who’s caught attending a dog fight will be sentenced to a maximum fine of 600 dollars.
Section II: All fines collected from people breaking this law will be used to sponsor the construction and operation of special dog centres, designed to house and rehabilitate confiscated fight dogs, in co-operation with several animal right’s organisations.

Since there has been no further debate on this bill for over 24 hours, I call for a vote.

AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on December 16, 2009, 03:33:15 PM

Stricter Dog Fighting Policy Bill

Section I: It shall be illegal for any person to attend dog fighting events anywhere the Mideast Region. Anyone who’s caught attending a dog fight will be sentenced to a maximum fine of 600 dollars.
Section II: All fines collected from people breaking this law will be used to sponsor the construction and operation of special dog centres, designed to house and rehabilitate confiscated fight dogs, in co-operation with several animal right’s organisations.

Since there has been no further debate on this bill for over 24 hours, I call for a vote.

AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on December 16, 2009, 06:52:36 PM
I am introducing a bill I think is long needed by now:

Quote
Mideast Assembly Noticeboard Act

1. Effective January 1, 2010, there shall be a thread, titled “Mideast Assembly Noticeboard”, in the board Atlas Fantasy Elections.
2. It shall be the responsibility of the Speaker of the Assembly to maintain this thread and keep it up to date.
3. This thread shall be modeled after the Senate Noticeboards in the board Atlas Fantasy Government. It shall include a list of bills currently under debate, including the status of all such bills, a list of bills in the queue, as well as lists showing passed and rejected legislation.
4. All proposed legislation shall be submitted in the Mideast Assembly Noticeboard.

Judging from the NE Assembly's use of such a board, this is a good idea.

I ask the Assembly to avoid creating additional threads that clog the Elections Board. It has never been an issue to figure out what the next piece of legislation is here, nor is there ever a particularly lengthy queue.

As the President of the Northeast Assembly, I could be of some help here,

I suggest to not create a board. The Mideast's Assembly is very organized, and moves on one Bill at a time, also it is smaller than the Northeast's, so, it's more manageable.

Those are just my two cents. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 16, 2009, 07:02:13 PM

Stricter Dog Fighting Policy Bill

Section I: It shall be illegal for any person to attend dog fighting events anywhere the Mideast Region. Anyone who’s caught attending a dog fight will be sentenced to a maximum fine of 600 dollars.
Section II: All fines collected from people breaking this law will be used to sponsor the construction and operation of special dog centres, designed to house and rehabilitate confiscated fight dogs, in co-operation with several animal right’s organisations.

Since there has been no further debate on this bill for over 24 hours, I call for a vote.

AYE.

AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on December 16, 2009, 07:06:07 PM

Stricter Dog Fighting Policy Bill

Section I: It shall be illegal for any person to attend dog fighting events anywhere the Mideast Region. Anyone who’s caught attending a dog fight will be sentenced to a maximum fine of 600 dollars.
Section II: All fines collected from people breaking this law will be used to sponsor the construction and operation of special dog centres, designed to house and rehabilitate confiscated fight dogs, in co-operation with several animal right’s organisations.

Since there has been no further debate on this bill for over 24 hours, I call for a vote.

AYE.

AYE.

The victims and myself thank the Mideast Assembly for passing this excellent piece of legislation

()


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 17, 2009, 03:34:28 PM
While, in theory, the noticeboard is a good idea, I don't think it is necessary.  As has been noted, the Assembly thread is well organized, and easy to navigate.  I think we don't need to add anther thread which will clutter up the board unnecessarily.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on December 17, 2009, 04:00:14 PM
Maybe, a board for non-Assemblymans, so they can talk about the bills.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 17, 2009, 04:11:30 PM
Maybe, a board for non-Assemblymans, so they can talk about the bills.

That is, again, unnecessary.  Non-Assemblyman are not prevented from posting in this thread, and from discussing the legislation, and from suggesting changes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on December 17, 2009, 05:04:09 PM
No extra threads. I like the way this Assembly is set up much better than I do the Northeast's.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on December 18, 2009, 07:27:04 PM
Stricter Dog Fighting Policy Bill

Section I: It shall be illegal for any person to attend dog fighting events anywhere the Mideast Region. Anyone who’s caught attending a dog fight will be sentenced to a maximum fine of 600 dollars.
Section II: All fines collected from people breaking this law will be used to sponsor the construction and operation of special dog centres, designed to house and rehabilitate confiscated fight dogs, in co-operation with several animal right’s organisations.

Since there has been no further debate on this bill for over 24 hours, I call for a vote.

Aye ftr


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on December 18, 2009, 07:30:03 PM
  Aye on the Stricter Dog Fighting Policy Bill



The bill pass, and is given to the Governor for his signature or veto.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on December 21, 2009, 02:50:32 PM
Mideast Assembly Noticeboard Act

1. Effective January 1, 2010, there shall be a thread, titled “Mideast Assembly Noticeboard”, in the board Atlas Fantasy Elections.
2. It shall be the responsibility of the Speaker of the Assembly to maintain this thread and keep it up to date.
3. This thread shall be modeled after the Senate Noticeboards in the board Atlas Fantasy Government. It shall include a list of bills currently under debate, including the status of all such bills, a list of bills in the queue, as well as lists showing passed and rejected legislation.
4. All proposed legislation shall be submitted in the Mideast Assembly Noticeboard.

Since there has been no debate on this bill for the last 24 hours, I move to a vote.



Guys, when this bill is dealt with, may I suggest a recess until after Christmas. I think most of us will be busy and have little time for the forum in coming days.




Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on December 21, 2009, 02:53:30 PM
Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on December 21, 2009, 03:51:09 PM
Nay on the bill,

Also, I will not be here from the December 28th to January 2nd or 3rd. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 21, 2009, 04:52:36 PM
Nay.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 21, 2009, 05:34:50 PM
What's the problem with this? It will definately ease congestion, as many people have no clue what's going on here.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 21, 2009, 06:41:03 PM
What's the problem with this? It will definately ease congestion, as many people have no clue what's going on here.

While, in theory, the noticeboard is a good idea, I don't think it is necessary.  As has been noted, the Assembly thread is well organized, and easy to navigate.  I think we don't need to add anther thread which will clutter up the board unnecessarily.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 21, 2009, 06:44:29 PM
The Assembly is only "well organized, and easy to navigate" to those who check on every 5 minutes to see if there is a new post. For an outside observer, like myself, it is very hard to see what is going on. It's kind of like organized chaos...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread - Mideast Assembly Noticeboard Act, Voting
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 21, 2009, 06:51:50 PM
The Assembly is only "well organized, and easy to navigate" to those who check on every 5 minutes to see if there is a new post. For an outside observer, like myself, it is very hard to see what is going on. It's kind of like organized chaos...

Even then, it is not difficult.  One thing, perhaps, would be to do what the Senate threads do, and have the name of the bill and it's current status in the header.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on December 21, 2009, 07:49:05 PM
  Abstain



The bill fails.

So shall we recess from 23rd December to 2 January? I won't be here 23-26 and Josh not 28-2, so we probably won't have a full Assembly during that period anyway.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 21, 2009, 08:40:13 PM
Yes, we might as well recess. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on December 21, 2009, 09:14:50 PM
Yes, lets recess for the Holidays :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on December 21, 2009, 10:42:31 PM
Well then I shall take a Christmas break also. I will be here a little less from December 24 to January 6.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 22, 2009, 08:39:10 AM
  Abstain



The bill fails.

So shall we recess from 23rd December to 2 January? I won't be here 23-26 and Josh not 28-2, so we probably won't have a full Assembly during that period anyway.

Aye, ftr.

That was a quick vote! I spend one evening off the Forum...... >:(


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 22, 2009, 08:41:14 AM

Agreed. Do you wish to set a date for reconvening, Mr. Speaker? Better to do so than leaving it open-ended.

FWIW, perhaps reconvening between Xmas and Ney Years? We'll all have some down time after Christmas and plenty of web surfing time in the intervening week I suspect.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 22, 2009, 10:36:14 AM

Agreed. Do you wish to set a date for reconvening, Mr. Speaker? Better to do so than leaving it open-ended.

FWIW, perhaps reconvening between Xmas and Ney Years? We'll all have some down time after Christmas and plenty of web surfing time in the intervening week I suspect.

It appears the date has been set as January 3, with us in recess from 12/23-1/2.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 03, 2010, 06:30:57 PM
Cricket chirp.  Cricket chirp.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on January 04, 2010, 12:26:33 AM
The Assembly is not in session.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on January 04, 2010, 12:28:40 AM

Missed the logic on the January 6 return date. I guess someone is away?

Hopefully it won't take too long for everyone to get back into the swing of things after the holidays.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 04, 2010, 01:03:19 AM

Missed the logic on the January 6 return date. I guess someone is away?

Hopefully it won't take too long for everyone to get back into the swing of things after the holidays.

I thought it was the 3rd - that's what ben's post said.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on January 04, 2010, 03:38:02 PM
The vote was to recess until January 2; I thought we would be returning on the 3rd.

So shall we recess from 23rd December to 2 January? I won't be here 23-26 and Josh not 28-2, so we probably won't have a full Assembly during that period anyway.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on January 05, 2010, 07:39:50 AM
Yeah, sorry we should get back to buisness.


Point taken.

So anyone has any bills ready to present?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on January 05, 2010, 05:58:58 PM
So anyone has any bills ready to present?

I'm working on a bill, and should have it ready soon.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on January 06, 2010, 03:19:48 PM
Forgot to mention as been so busy last few days: Good luck guys and it's been an honor serving in this Chamber. Under Swedish Cheese's leadership I know things you guys can accomplish good things together.

<back to waiting on jury verdict>


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on January 06, 2010, 04:01:22 PM
Mideast Anti-Troll Act
1.   All people on the “Troll List” shall be barred from holding office in the Mideast Region and voting in the Mideast Region.
2.   The “Troll List” shall be defined as the list kept by the Moderators on the main Atlas Fantasy Board until the title, “Troll List.”
3.   This law shall not apply to people posted on the “Troll List” at the time of the signing of this legislation.
4.   This legislation shall take effect immediately upon signing.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on January 06, 2010, 06:49:34 PM
Oh, dear God, no.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: President Mitt on January 06, 2010, 06:55:57 PM
As I stated in your Office Thread, I oppose this legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on January 06, 2010, 07:01:25 PM
Mideast Anti-Troll Act
1.   All people on the “Troll List” shall be barred from holding office in the Mideast Region and voting in the Mideast Region.
2.   The “Troll List” shall be defined as the list kept by the Moderators on the main Atlas Fantasy Board until the title, “Troll List.”
3.   This law shall not apply to people posted on the “Troll List” at the time of the signing of this legislation.
4.   This legislation shall take effect immediately upon signing.
This is getting like Guantanamo - once you were an enemy combatant there was no right of appeal to get you off.

Basically there is no right of appeal to being on the troll list, so once you are on, there is no independent arbiter to get you off it. Any bill like this is going to have a serious due process of Law issue.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on January 06, 2010, 07:10:28 PM
I propose an amendment to the bill:

5: Any person removed from the Troll List shall have their voting privileges reinstated.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on January 06, 2010, 09:45:07 PM
I propose an amendment to the bill:

5: Any person removed from the Troll List shall have their voting privileges reinstated.

I totally support that; I thought it was clear in the legislation, but apparently not.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: President Mitt on January 06, 2010, 10:06:50 PM
May I ask what is the point of this legislation? I really don't see the merit of depriving people of their rights to vote/hold office merely because a handful of moderators (NO offense to the Mods) have deemed them trolls.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Rowan on January 06, 2010, 10:17:42 PM
I'm not a member of this region, but I wholeheartedly support this type of legislation and hope something can be done like this on the national level.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 07, 2010, 02:10:12 AM
I oppose this bill.  I do not think that the legislature should be regulating office-holding qualifications based on forum conduct.  In real life, we don't ban people from office for conduct unless they break a law, so I don't think we should be banning people from the Mideast unless they break the law.

Furthermore, this legislation is gravely unconstitutional.  If the Assembly wants to to go into effect, it'll have to be reintroduced as an amendment, because I won't sign it and I certainly won't enforce it (even if it passes as an Amendment, I probably wouldn't enforce it and I'd let it go to the Supreme Court, where I think it'd be overturned as being a violation of the Atlasian Constitution).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on January 07, 2010, 04:44:15 AM
Although I dislike trolls as much as any other serious poster in Atlasia, I'm very sceptical to this law, or any law that regulates the voters' free choice. I trust the citizens of this region to be wise enough not to vote trolls into offices, unless they have very good reasons to do so.

Besides, since the individuals on the troll list are not allowed to even campaign, I don't see the need for this law either.

As for removing their voting rights, I believe that should be left up to the HAEV.
     


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on January 07, 2010, 12:56:07 PM
I see no reason to do what this bill says..


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on January 08, 2010, 08:26:19 AM
I propose an amendment to the bill:

5: Any person removed from the Troll List shall have their voting privileges reinstated.

I move to a vote on the following amendment.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on January 08, 2010, 03:34:41 PM
I propose an amendment to the bill:

5: Any person removed from the Troll List shall have their voting privileges reinstated.

I move to a vote on the following amendment.

AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on January 08, 2010, 05:20:34 PM
I vote aye to the amendment, but will vote nay when the final bill comes up.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on January 08, 2010, 05:32:59 PM
Aye on the amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on January 08, 2010, 07:45:00 PM
  Aye



The amendment passes and is added to the bill.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 09, 2010, 03:26:20 AM
Can I get clarification on something - is this being proposed as normal legislation or a Constitutional Amendment?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on January 09, 2010, 11:03:22 AM
Can I get clarification on something - is this being proposed as normal legislation or a Constitutional Amendment?

I initially proposed it as legislation, but I would happily move it over to a Constitutional Amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on January 09, 2010, 04:38:07 PM
If I may...
I disagree with this legislation. If someone on the Troll List can be a great Assemblyman, who are we to stop them? If the person is a loon, than I trust that the people of this region won't elect them to the position. And what if a moderator had a vendetta against a member, and put them on for no good reason? That wouldn't be fair to that member to keep him from holding office or voting.
Though this has a good intent, there isn't one part of it that I can agree with. I urge all members of the Assembly to vote "Nay" on the final vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on January 10, 2010, 11:13:55 AM
I've decided to re-submit this as an Amendment:
Mideast Anti-Troll Amendment
1.   All people on the “Troll List” shall be barred from holding office in the Mideast Region and voting in the Mideast Region.
2.   The “Troll List” shall be defined as the list kept by the Moderators on the main Atlas Fantasy Board until the title, “Troll List.”
3.   This law shall not apply to people posted on the “Troll List” at the time of the signing of this legislation.
4.   Any person removed from the Troll List shall have their voting privileges reinstated.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: President Mitt on January 10, 2010, 12:39:26 PM
I oppose this as well. Just because somebody is "listed" as a troll does not mean they cannot become a great Assemblymen/Governor/ etc. Nor should it mean they have their voting rights taken away.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on January 12, 2010, 04:39:44 AM
I've decided to re-submit this as an Amendment:
Mideast Anti-Troll Amendment
1.   All people on the “Troll List” shall be barred from holding office in the Mideast Region and voting in the Mideast Region.
2.   The “Troll List” shall be defined as the list kept by the Moderators on the main Atlas Fantasy Board until the title, “Troll List.”
3.   This law shall not apply to people posted on the “Troll List” at the time of the signing of this legislation.
4.   Any person removed from the Troll List shall have their voting privileges reinstated.

Since there has been no debate on this amendment for the last 24 hours, I now move to a vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on January 12, 2010, 03:01:18 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Psychic Octopus on January 13, 2010, 12:00:56 AM
Nay


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on January 13, 2010, 12:01:19 AM
I've decided to re-submit this as an Amendment:
Mideast Anti-Troll Amendment
1.   All people on the “Troll List” shall be barred from holding office in the Mideast Region and voting in the Mideast Region.
2.   The “Troll List” shall be defined as the list kept by the Moderators on the main Atlas Fantasy Board until the title, “Troll List.”
3.   This law shall not apply to people posted on the “Troll List” at the time of the signing of this legislation.
4.   Any person removed from the Troll List shall have their voting privileges reinstated.

Since there has been no debate on this amendment for the last 24 hours, I now move to a vote.

Abstain.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on January 13, 2010, 01:15:11 AM
Abstain


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on January 13, 2010, 06:17:39 AM
  Nay



The amendment fails.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 29, 2010, 12:05:30 PM
Alright, let's get to work!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on January 29, 2010, 12:14:33 PM

Actually I have to adjourn the old Assembly first, and the the Dean (True Conservative) has to open it and arrange for the election of a Speaker. But I like your anthusiasm :)



Anyway, I herby declare the 9th Assembly adjourned Sine Die.

Best of luck guys. I'm looking forward to seeing what legislation you'll come up with.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on January 29, 2010, 12:34:40 PM
As Dean of the Assembly I declare the 10th Mideast Assembly in session. I urge my fellow assemblymen to swear in so that we can begin the process of electing a Speaker. Your nominations for the position are welcome.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 29, 2010, 02:27:38 PM

Actually I have to adjourn the old Assembly first, and the the Dean (True Conservative) has to open it and arrange for the election of a Speaker. But I like your anthusiasm :)

Yeah, I know - that was my prompting to get everybody sworn in and all.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on January 29, 2010, 04:06:49 PM
I nominate Inks for the position of Speaker of our new Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on January 30, 2010, 12:45:43 PM
I nominate Inks for the position of Speaker of our new Assembly.

Seconded by me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on January 30, 2010, 04:13:11 PM
24 hours have passed and only the only person to have been nominated was Inks.LWC. Therefore, he shall be our Speaker for the 10th Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 30, 2010, 04:33:17 PM
I thank the Assembly, and I happily accept the position.  I now open the floor for submission of bills, resolutions, or any other Assembly business.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on January 31, 2010, 09:41:26 AM
First, I'd like to congratulate our Governor for his election. As an experienced Assemblyman and a clever, fair and moderate Speaker, I'm sure he will do a great job as Governor.
I'm sure he will stick to his bipartisan behaviour and he will try to seek the general interest of the whole Mideast region.

Second, I'd like to congratulate Inks for his swift election to the speakership of our Assembly. I trust him to be a fair and efficient speaker, able to organize and manage our debates and votes.

To begin with, I'd like the new Assembly to discuss and vote on this constitutional amendment that I've already put forward in another session.

The Eminent Domain Statute only deals with PUBLIC entities using or taking private property, not with PRIVATE entities taking or trying to take or using without being allowed private property of another else.

So, I think we need a higher protection for private properties against PRIVATE attempts to dminish it:


Protection of Private Property Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

I. The words "private properties," are included after the word "houses," in the clause 11. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution.

II. The clause 13. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"13. Private property shall not be taken or used by another private legal entity. Private property shall not be taken by a public legal entity for public use, without just compensation."


Thank you for your attention, my fellow Assemblymen.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on January 31, 2010, 11:06:13 AM
BBF, how would you define "private property" and "private entity?"


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Peter on January 31, 2010, 01:23:28 PM
Quote
Private property shall not be taken or used by another private legal entity.
Taken literally, this could have a different meaning to the one intended - i.e. it removes the right of private parties to exchange goods, form contracts, make gifts, etc.

Furthermore, even just focused on the intent that is intended, I fail to see why the Constitution should be used to regulate the actions of private parties interacting, unless its something grotesque like slavery, which I don't believe this is. Ultimately, any party has the right to go to Court through the many statutes that exist to protect private property from effective theft, not to mention a right at common law.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 31, 2010, 02:13:20 PM
I don't really see why we would need this.  Eminent domain really only deals with public entities (at least that was my understanding).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 01, 2010, 03:38:24 AM
BBF, how would you define "private property" and "private entity?"

Do I have to define "private property" more than it is defined in the Constitution ?
Everything (real-estate, movables, software, etc) that is owned by a legal entity that is not public.

As for private entity, I mean legal entity that is not a public one: individuals, associations (clubs, leagues, political parties, etc), businesses.

I'm sorry if I'm not very clear in English. I have indeed a big problem with legal language... although I precisely see what I mean in French, of course ;)
I'm open to any suggestion of course.

Quote
Private property shall not be taken or used by another private legal entity.
Taken literally, this could have a different meaning to the one intended - i.e. it removes the right of private parties to exchange goods, form contracts, make gifts, etc.

Furthermore, even just focused on the intent that is intended, I fail to see why the Constitution should be used to regulate the actions of private parties interacting, unless its something grotesque like slavery, which I don't believe this is. Ultimately, any party has the right to go to Court through the many statutes that exist to protect private property from effective theft, not to mention a right at common law.

You're right, it's not at all well written.
Depending on how the debate keeps on, I can amend my own proposal:
"13. Private property shall not be taken or used by another private legal entity without owner's agreement. Private property shall not be taken by a public legal entity for public use, without just compensation."
Any other suggestion is welcome.

On the other point, of course, it's the Constitution, but it's the Bill of Rights. If the Bill of Rights deals with the protection of private property against public interferences, I think it can, it should, deal with interferences from other private entities.

Maybe it's a very continental European viewpoint, but that's the way the French Declaration of Human Rights works.

I know there isn't any big problem in the US with Gipsies' taking private properties, but it's a real problem in Europe, even though political correctness implies you must see them as a poor minority everywhere, even if you're not in Romania, Hungary or Slovakia.

The Internet piracy or the abusive use of private data for private use are other examples of widespread infringements on private property, that require the biggest possible protection.
Judgements of Courts may change and may not be enough to guarantee the right to private property.
And, of course, Statute Laws can be amended far more easily than constitutional rules. So, I think they are not enough.

I don't really see why we would need this.  Eminent domain really only deals with public entities (at least that was my understanding).
That's precisely the problem I have with this: it only deals with public entities using or taking private property, not with private entities taking or trying to take or use, without being allowed, private property of another people.
My problem isn't only with government potential infringements but also with private breaches of private property.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 03, 2010, 08:07:13 AM

Protection of Private Property Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

I. The words "private properties," are included after the word "houses," in the clause 11. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution.

II. The clause 13. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"13. Private property shall not be taken or used by another private legal entity without owner's agreement. Private property shall not be taken by a public legal entity for public use, without just compensation."


Without any other suggestion, this is the amended version I submit to the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 03, 2010, 11:43:14 AM
That works for me.  Discussion is now open on the amended version of the Amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on February 07, 2010, 11:02:32 AM
*Cough* *cough*



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 07, 2010, 12:15:33 PM

Our Speaker will probably open the vote soon... ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 07, 2010, 04:27:29 PM
My apologies - something came up in my personal life, and I was out of town most of yesterday.  Voting is opened on the following Constitutional amendment.  Voting will last 48 hours:

Quote
Protection of Private Property Amendment to the Third Mideast Constitution

I. The words "private properties," are included after the word "houses," in the clause 11. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution.

II. The clause 13. of Article V of the Third Mideast Constitution is amended to read:

"13. Private property shall not be taken or used by another private legal entity without owner's agreement. Private property shall not be taken by a public legal entity for public use, without just compensation."



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on February 07, 2010, 04:31:30 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 08, 2010, 03:51:33 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on February 08, 2010, 10:53:53 AM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 08, 2010, 11:46:25 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 08, 2010, 07:43:14 PM
I've PMed NiK reminding him to swear in and vote.  He has until tomorrow around 4 to vote.  What are people's thoughts on voting times?  With 5 members, I feel it should be longer than 24 hours - does everybody like 48 hours?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on February 08, 2010, 07:44:20 PM
48 hours works for me, but I think we should also allow for extended time if a member notifies us beforehand that he will need more time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 08, 2010, 09:49:52 PM
48 hours works for me, but I think we should also allow for extended time if a member notifies us beforehand that he will need more time.

Of course - I just meant is 48 hours good as a default time?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Psychic Octopus on February 08, 2010, 09:55:34 PM
I believe I swore in when I was appointed, should I do it again?

In any case, AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 08, 2010, 10:33:04 PM
I believe I swore in when I was appointed, should I do it again?

Yes - new Assembly session means new oath of office.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 09, 2010, 01:44:14 AM
The AYEs are 5, and the NAYs are 0.

The AYEs have it.  The Amendment has been passed by the Assembly and is now moved to be ratified by the people of the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on February 09, 2010, 03:39:47 AM
The AYEs are 5, and the NAYs are 0.

The AYEs have it.  The Amendment has been passed by the Assembly and is now moved to be ratified by the people of the Mideast.

I'll get a vote up on Thursday.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 09, 2010, 10:59:46 AM
Some of you may remember that, in a former session of our Assembly, I put forward the foillowing proposal.
There were criticisms on this for being somewhat complicated, even "bureaucratic"...

The Periodical Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government Bill

I. Each year, the Assembly reviews the Statute Laws which came into force 5 years earlier, in order to check their lasting usefulness, to scrap Statute Laws that have become useless or to amend Statute Laws that have more downsides than upsides.

II. To that aim, an Assemblyman shall submit an "Assessement Report" to the Assembly regarding each law referred to in clause I.
After having consulted the Governor's office, every accurate administrative entity, the other members of the Assembly, the Atlasia Game Master and a number of citizens, and having checked the overall and additional costs, the financial implications and the results of the law, the Assemblyman writes an "Assessment Report".

III. The "Assessment Report" shall give a statement:
a. on the overall and the additional costs of the law,
b. on the current risks and the possible future risks (at least in the following areas: constitutional risks, safety and human risks, security risks, financial risks),
c. on the upsides and downsides and on the efficiency of the law in comparison with its original aims and with the means it uses or its implementation implies,
d. on its compatibility with the Constitution and with other Statute Laws.
The report shall conclude whether the law can be let unchanged or needs to be repealed or amended, due to incompatibility, to uselessness, to excessive risks or to excessive costs.
The Assemblyman who has written the report shall introduce at the same time a bill to repeal or amend the law if the report concludes so.

IV. Each year, before the end of January, the Assembly by a majority vote or its Speaker if no majority is reached shares out between the Assemblymen (including the Speaker) the reviewing work of all the Statute Laws which came into force in the preceding 5th year.

But the need for periodical reviewing of our legislation is still here, in order to simplify it, to amend it, to improve it, as reality changes, evolves faster and faster, as our financial resources are under strain, as our Government needs to remain not too big and to act humbly and moderately.

The assessment of legislation is almost as important a work than the vote of new legislations. With an Assembly of five members, it should be easier to perform this task of reviewing the laws.

But we don't need a very exhaustive process. So, I wish to propose the "lighter" following:


The Periodical Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government Bill

I. Each year, the Assembly reviews the Statute Laws which came into force 3 full years earlier, in order to check their lasting usefulness, to scrap Statute Laws that have become useless or to amend Statute Laws that have more downsides than upsides.

II. To that aim, the Speaker will organize a debate on each law, in the month following the 3rd anniversary of the coming into force of a Statute Law. The debate shall not be open for more than 3 days.

III. Statute Laws which came into force in 2005 will be debated in 2010, along with the laws which came into force in 2006.


So, the Assembly is just obliged to debate, not to vote, not to change, not to amend.
We will just check that the law is still accurate.

First, without an obligation, even just an obligation of thinking and debating, the Assemblymen does not bother to do it...

Second, it will be simpler to review old laws as we are sure that, at least 3 full years after, they will be reviewed.

Thank you for your attention


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on February 09, 2010, 11:04:44 AM
I still don't think this law is necessary.  We are usually busy debating other legislation; we don't need to take up time debating legislation that is 3 years old.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on February 09, 2010, 11:11:11 AM
I still don't think this law is necessary.  We are usually busy debating other legislation; we don't need to take up time debating legislation that is 3 years old.
Meh, the activity of this Assembly has decreased a lot. Actually, I think the decrease has started ever since we switched to a 5-member Assembly. This bill would help us eliminate useless bills, and would increase activity.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 09, 2010, 11:22:35 AM
I still don't think this law is necessary.  We are usually busy debating other legislation; we don't need to take up time debating legislation that is 3 years old.

- We aren't so busy.
The previous Assembly voted a very tiny number of laws... and repealed none of the old ones.
For the moment, the current Assembly has voted one amendment and is debating one proposal, both of them put forward by the same Assemblyman.
That may become a problem.

- If old laws don't need to be debated again, well, it's a bit worrying to vote new ones, as they would be in force forever, sort of.
And, on the contrary, if you think 3 years is too short a delay, let's consider Atlasian "time": 3 years is a very long time, in a way !

- Please note that I've put a limit on these debates, so that they don't delay other legislative work. On the contrary, they'd force our Assembly to be useful all the time, even when there isn't any other "work in progress".


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 09, 2010, 11:52:42 AM
I support this bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on February 09, 2010, 12:45:52 PM
As was the case last time, I don't see the necissarity of this law. I believe it will be too complicated and hard to uphold and I fear that the assembly will end up spending more time on reviewing old laws than working on their own new ideas for legislation. I obviously don't think that we should just leave every old law as it is for ever and ever, but there's no need to mandate a review of every statue law every third year. Any assemblyman can him/herself propose changes to old laws.

So I don't support this bill, however I will not veto it, shall it pass.

 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 09, 2010, 05:02:13 PM
As was the case last time, I don't see the necissarity of this law. I believe it will be too complicated and hard to uphold and I fear that the assembly will end up spending more time on reviewing old laws than working on their own new ideas for legislation. I obviously don't think that we should just leave every old law as it is for ever and ever, but there's no need to mandate a review of every statue law every third year. Any assemblyman can him/herself propose changes to old laws.
The problem is precisely that (s)he scarcely do, in fact.

So I don't support this bill, however I will not veto it, shall it pass.
I thank you for that, Mr. Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 11, 2010, 03:59:11 AM
The coming vote on the amendment recently voted by our Assembly and the national buzz about coming elections in Atlasia shouldn't prevent us from keeping on our legislative work, my fellow Mideast Assemblymen ! :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on February 11, 2010, 10:43:34 AM
Labor Protection Act
Article I:  Any corporation found in violation of National or Regional Labor laws shall pay the most expensive of the following fines:
   (1A): A corporate tax increase of 20% for the following tax year;
   (2A): A forfeiture of tax benefits and subsidies for the following two tax years;
   (3A): One Hundred Thousand Dollars to each employee who is able to successfully prove a legitimate labor rights violation to either the Mideast Superior Judge, or another appropriate Magistrate.

Article II:  This legislation will take effect immediately, and will be effective for all labor complaints filed on or after January 1, 2010.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 11, 2010, 12:52:08 PM
Can we first vote on my proposal, in order not to mix everything up ?

Thanks, Mr. Speaker !


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on February 11, 2010, 01:18:31 PM
Right now I'm neutral on big bad fab's bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 11, 2010, 06:43:24 PM
Substantial debate on the following bill having ended at least 24 hours ago, voting on the following bill shall begin.  This will be a 48 hour vote:

Quote
The Periodical Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government Bill

I. Each year, the Assembly reviews the Statute Laws which came into force 3 full years earlier, in order to check their lasting usefulness, to scrap Statute Laws that have become useless or to amend Statute Laws that have more downsides than upsides.

II. To that aim, the Speaker will organize a debate on each law, in the month following the 3rd anniversary of the coming into force of a Statute Law. The debate shall not be open for more than 3 days.

III. Statute Laws which came into force in 2005 will be debated in 2010, along with the laws which came into force in 2006.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 11, 2010, 06:43:46 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on February 11, 2010, 10:46:06 PM
NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on February 11, 2010, 11:32:18 PM
Abstain


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 12, 2010, 05:06:31 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Psychic Octopus on February 13, 2010, 02:03:46 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 13, 2010, 05:24:31 PM
Labor Protection Act
Article I:  Any corporation found in violation of National or Regional Labor laws shall pay the most expensive of the following fines:
   (1A): A corporate tax increase of 20% for the following tax year;
   (2A): A forfeiture of tax benefits and subsidies for the following two tax years;
   (3A): One Hundred Thousand Dollars to each employee who is able to successfully prove a legitimate labor rights violation to either the Mideast Superior Judge, or another appropriate Magistrate.

Article II:  This legislation will take effect immediately, and will be effective for all labor complaints filed on or after January 1, 2010.

I have several objections on this proposal, which, for the moment, would result in a Nay vote from me:

- taxes can't be used as fines, as sanctions, whatever the good justification of the rule you want to see applied;
taxes are financial contributions that the people, via their assembly, agree on paying to pay for some public needs;
so clause 1A should be removed.

- in clause 2A, the forfeiture of tax benefits seems really complicated: our tax code is really "heavy" and complex; please don't make it more;
as for forfeiture of subsidies, I agree on the principle, but if EVERY violation of Labour Laws, whatever its importance, results in a forfeiture of 2 years, it's not proportionate;

- in clause 3A, it's not the Law which should fix the amount, but the Courts.

Your aim, my fellow Assemblyman, is good. But I can't agree on these means. And I'm sorry not to propose amendments, as they would be too numerous and would probably too far away from what you want. I prefer to let you think if you can put forward some changes yourself.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on February 14, 2010, 12:50:01 AM
My intent was not to have this version passed.  My intent is to begin substantive debate on some form of legislation that will help curb labor abuses, which has been specially noted by the GM as a problem in our Region.

In fact, I invite the GM himself to address us on what he deems necessary to eliminate these abuses.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 14, 2010, 01:58:14 AM
What BBF said, plus, while technically legal in the Mideast, I would discourage passing an ex post facto law.  (That's probably something we should amend).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 14, 2010, 11:40:00 PM
The vote is on the motion to remove Article II from the Labor Protection Act.  This will be a 24 hour vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Katherine Harris is legit on February 14, 2010, 11:42:02 PM
I Nominate Hashemite to HAVE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on February 14, 2010, 11:58:32 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 15, 2010, 04:00:50 AM
AYE

Mr. Speaker, could you send the previous bill we've voted to our Governor ? Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 15, 2010, 02:16:33 PM
On the final vote for The Periodical Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government Bill:

The AYEs are 3, and the NAYs are 1, with 1 abstention.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 15, 2010, 03:08:33 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Psychic Octopus on February 15, 2010, 04:29:59 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 17, 2010, 02:54:39 AM
On the motion to remove Article II from the Labor Protection Act, the AYEs are 4, and the NAYs are 0.

The AYEs have it, and the motion is agreed to.

Apparently I accidentally edited over the original post that I had - I dont know.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on February 17, 2010, 05:12:39 PM
Quote
The Periodical Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government Bill

I. Each year, the Assembly reviews the Statute Laws which came into force 3 full years earlier, in order to check their lasting usefulness, to scrap Statute Laws that have become useless or to amend Statute Laws that have more downsides than upsides.

II. To that aim, the Speaker will organize a debate on each law, in the month following the 3rd anniversary of the coming into force of a Statute Law. The debate shall not be open for more than 3 days.

III. Statute Laws which came into force in 2005 will be debated in 2010, along with the laws which came into force in 2006.

- Swedish Cheese

Bill has been signed. Enjoy.

:)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 21, 2010, 08:08:47 PM
Per the PASLBAG Bill, debate is now open on the usefulness of the Mideast Education Reform Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Education_Reform_Statute).  Debate will last no more than 72 hours.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 22, 2010, 05:54:26 AM
Per the PASLBAG Bill, debate is now open on the usefulness of the Mideast Education Reform Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Education_Reform_Statute).  Debate will last no more than 72 hours.

First, how can we read the entire text, without the ad banner by MediaWiki ?

Second, I've got some remarks on this text that may require a bill amending it:

- (section 2) the option for LSB to use only 1% of their budget (i.e. 1% of the 70%, i.e. 0.7% of the total money for education) is too small to have a real meaning: this limit should be put at about 7%, in order to stand at almost 5% of the total.
Of course, this remains only a possibility, not an obligation.

- (section 1) we can discuss for a long time on the numbers, but, with a bigger number for buildings (which might be required), we've got less for the LSB. So, I'm really not sure.
Maybe better appropriations would be 65-20-10-5. The buildings of our schools are ageing quickly and, for some years, the need to repair seems high (as a side note, that would be useful investments with a positive effect on the local economy).
If we decide for these numbers, my previous remark would be even softer (4.5% of the total).

I have no other remarks (section 3 is especially good and useful).

If a majority seems to appear among my fellow Assemblymen, I'm ready to put forward a bill amending this law.



Dear Mr. Speaker, are we going to vote on our colleague Benconstine's bill ? He doesn't seem to amend it and I'd like to introduce a new bill myself, but I don't want to do it before our work is finished on the previous bill.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 22, 2010, 11:14:22 AM
Sorry, I thought I had already put this up.  Voting will now begin on the following legislation.  This will be a 48 hour vote:

Quote
Labor Protection Act
Article I:  Any corporation found in violation of National or Regional Labor laws shall pay the most expensive of the following fines:
   (1A): A corporate tax increase of 20% for the following tax year;
   (2A): A forfeiture of tax benefits and subsidies for the following two tax years;
   (3A): One Hundred Thousand Dollars to each employee who is able to successfully prove a legitimate labor rights violation to either the Mideast Superior Judge, or another appropriate Magistrate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 22, 2010, 03:11:16 PM
You know, as I'm looking at the bill, there are some things I'd like to amend.  Would anybody object to suspending the vote?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 23, 2010, 04:40:51 AM
You know, as I'm looking at the bill, there are some things I'd like to amend.  Would anybody object to suspending the vote?

I wouldn't. Written like that, I would cast a big "no".
But it's too far from what I think for me to propose useful amendments. So, anybody else who has ideas is welcome !


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 23, 2010, 09:38:06 AM
Without objection, the motion is passed.

I move to amend the bill:

Quote
Amendment 2 to the Labor Protection Act
Section (1A) is removed.

Quote
Amendment 3 to the Labor Protection Act
Section (3A) is amended to read as follows:
Any employee who is able to successfully prove a legitimate labor rights violation in a court of law may be awarded up to one hundred thousand dollars as compensation for a violation of a national or regional labor law.

Also, I ask unanimous consent that the words "National", "Regional", and "Labor" be decapitalized.

Debate is now open on my 2 amendments.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 23, 2010, 09:55:52 AM
Amendment 2 is OK !
As I've said earlier, it's a question of principle and of historical basis of democracy.

Amendment 3 : can we say how the amount is set ?
I mean, are we OK it should be the court which sets it, proportionally to the importance of the violation and of the prejudice ?
If it's the case, why not writing it ?

Decapitalization of words is always a good thing... (except in titles of bills)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 24, 2010, 02:46:23 PM
Voting is now open on the following amendment.  This will be a 24 hour vote:

Quote
Amendment 2 to the Labor Protection Act
Section (1A) is removed.



Voting is now open on the following amendment.  This will be a 24 hour vote:

Quote
Amendment 3 to the Labor Protection Act
Section (3A) is amended to read as follows:
Any employee who is able to successfully prove a legitimate labor rights violation in a court of law may be awarded up to one hundred thousand dollars as compensation for a violation of a national or regional labor law.



On the unanimous consent request, seeing no objection, the request is ordered.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 24, 2010, 02:46:53 PM
AYE



AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 24, 2010, 02:48:02 PM
Amendment 3 : can we say how the amount is set ?
I mean, are we OK it should be the court which sets it, proportionally to the importance of the violation and of the prejudice ?
If it's the case, why not writing it ?

The way my amendment is worded, the court would set it.  My amendment simply sets a cap on the amount.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on February 24, 2010, 06:46:52 PM
Nay to both.  I don't like setting limits on what the courts can award.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Psychic Octopus on February 24, 2010, 08:02:56 PM
Sounds good, I like your changes, Mr. Inks.

Aye/Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on February 24, 2010, 10:05:24 PM
Aye to amendment 2, and abstain on 3


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 25, 2010, 05:00:10 AM
AYE

AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 25, 2010, 10:00:22 AM
On Amendment 2, the AYEs are 4 and the NAYs are 1.  The AYEs have it, and the amendment is agreed to.

On Amendment 3, the AYEs are 3 and the NAYs are 1, with 1 abstention.  The AYEs have it, and the amendment is agreed to.

The bill now reads as follows:

Quote
Labor Protection Act
Article I:  Any corporation found in violation of national or regional labor laws shall pay the most expensive of the following fines:
   (1A): A forfeiture of tax benefits and subsidies for the following two tax years;
   (2A): Any employee who is able to successfully prove a legitimate labor rights violation in a court of law may be awarded up to one hundred thousand dollars as compensation for a violation of a national or regional labor law.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on February 25, 2010, 05:20:05 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 25, 2010, 06:18:59 PM

Hang on - we haven't started voting on the bill yet.  Give it until tomorrow morning for anymore debate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on February 25, 2010, 06:40:40 PM
Hang on - we haven't started voting on the bill yet.  Give it until tomorrow morning for anymore debate.

Sorry, I misread your post :P

While I don't like the award caps, I still think this bill will achieve something, and until I can use the GM's suggestions to craft a more comprehensive bill, this will have to do.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 25, 2010, 06:49:51 PM
Hang on - we haven't started voting on the bill yet.  Give it until tomorrow morning for anymore debate.

Sorry, I misread your post :P

While I don't like the award caps, I still think this bill will achieve something, and until I can use the GM's suggestions to craft a more comprehensive bill, this will have to do.

Feel free to offer any amendments.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 25, 2010, 06:56:53 PM
I have voted for the amendments but didn't realized that the first sentence doesn't seem to fit:
how can you pay the biggest of 2 things, when the second may be decided very lately and when the first is about "the next 2 years" ?

And how can we know how much the tax benefits and subsidies would amount in the next 2 years, when subsidies may change each year ?
Shoulod we take as a reference an average of the last 2 years, to say that tax benefits and subsidies are lessened by this average ?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 25, 2010, 07:15:35 PM
I actually noticed that too.  Perhaps make it so that the offending company has both penalties placed on them?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 25, 2010, 07:22:16 PM
And if the bill is written like this ?

Labor Protection Act
Article I:  Any corporation found in violation of national or regional labor laws shall undergo a forfeiture of tax benefits and subsidies for a period lasting between one quarter to two tax years.

Article II: Any employee who is able to successfully prove a legitimate labor rights violation in a court of law may be awarded up to one hundred thousand dollars as compensation for a violation of a national or regional labor law.[/size]

Could we agree on something like that ?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on February 25, 2010, 07:35:31 PM
I second BBF.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 25, 2010, 07:54:45 PM
I put forward the amendment 4:

The Labor Protection Act is amended to read as follows:

Labor Protection Act
Article I:  Any corporation found in violation of national or regional labor laws shall undergo a forfeiture of tax benefits and subsidies for a period lasting between one quarter to two tax years.

Article II: Any employee who is able to successfully prove a legitimate labor rights violation in a court of law may be awarded up to one hundred thousand dollars as compensation for a violation of a national or regional labor law.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 26, 2010, 01:23:45 AM
Who desides how long the tax benefits are forfeited for?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 26, 2010, 03:52:23 AM
The one who gives them, the fiscal power: the Mideast Government.
Feel free to amend my amendment, Mr. Speaker ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 26, 2010, 09:38:27 AM
The one who gives them, the fiscal power: the Mideast Government.
Feel free to amend my amendment, Mr. Speaker ;)

Did you have in mind the executive (Mideast tax collection service) or judicial branch?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 26, 2010, 05:21:21 PM
The one who gives them, the fiscal power: the Mideast Government.
Feel free to amend my amendment, Mr. Speaker ;)

Did you have in mind the executive (Mideast tax collection service) or judicial branch?
Sorry, I'm unclear because of my native language and the French meaning of Government.
It's the Mideast tax collection service I had in mind.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on February 26, 2010, 05:22:13 PM
The judicial branch should be the ones that get to decide. I can't think of a single other law were the courts allow other Goverment agencies decided the time for a fine. Just my two cents.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 26, 2010, 05:48:45 PM
The judicial branch should be the ones that get to decide. I can't think of a single other law were the courts allow other Goverment agencies decided the time for a fine. Just my two cents.

Thank you, Mr. Governor.
The problem with this bill is that it has evolved in a way that what we are talking about aren't fines any longer.
They are just the financial consequence of a judgement in one case, an administrative sanction in the other.

Or maybe, we can say: first, their is trial and a compensation, for the person who is the victim.
Second, given the judgement, the executive branch is able to decide a forfeiture of tax benefits and subsidies, up to 2 years.
Is it a good idea ?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Psychic Octopus on February 26, 2010, 11:11:42 PM
I favor the judicial branch as well, I think that the tax collection services shouldn't make that kind of decision.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on February 26, 2010, 11:31:16 PM
I favor the judicial branch as well, I think that the tax collection services shouldn't make that kind of decision.

^^^^


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 27, 2010, 08:24:23 AM
It would be the Governor, not the service itself.
But, anyway, I repeal my amendment 4 and the bill can be submitted to the vote, as far as I'm concerned.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 27, 2010, 11:50:08 PM
Or how would we feel about just making it so that they lose their tax benefits for 2 years and have to pay any civil penalties as well - basically they'd have to pay numbers 1 and 2 not 1 or 2.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on February 28, 2010, 07:18:06 AM
Or how would we feel about just making it so that they lose their tax benefits for 2 years and have to pay any civil penalties as well - basically they'd have to pay numbers 1 and 2 not 1 or 2.

Yes, but in this case, 2 years is big when it's a fault of small importance. That's my problem.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 28, 2010, 02:46:40 PM
Or how would we feel about just making it so that they lose their tax benefits for 2 years and have to pay any civil penalties as well - basically they'd have to pay numbers 1 and 2 not 1 or 2.

Yes, but in this case, 2 years is big when it's a fault of small importance. That's my problem.

How would we feel about 1 year then?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on February 28, 2010, 03:12:58 PM
And if the bill is written like this ?

Labor Protection Act
Article I:  Any corporation found in violation of national or regional labor laws shall undergo a forfeiture of tax benefits and subsidies for a period lasting between one quarter to two tax years.

Article II: Any employee who is able to successfully prove a legitimate labor rights violation in a court of law may be awarded up to one hundred thousand dollars as compensation for a violation of a national or regional labor law.[/size]

Could we agree on something like that ?

Article I I'm fine with, but II isn't good. All you'd have is a bunch of employees trying to find tiny kinks in their companies to get a load of cash. Business won't trust the workers anymore and productivity will go way down. my two cents


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 01, 2010, 04:14:56 AM
Or how would we feel about just making it so that they lose their tax benefits for 2 years and have to pay any civil penalties as well - basically they'd have to pay numbers 1 and 2 not 1 or 2.

Yes, but in this case, 2 years is big when it's a fault of small importance. That's my problem.

How would we feel about 1 year then?

I would prefer a range, from one quarter to one year.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 01, 2010, 04:37:56 AM
As the debate on Ben's proposal isn't yet finished (even if I hope it will end soon),
I don't want to wait any longer and I introduce the 2 following proposals, the first of them within the framework of PALSBAG law :



Mideast Education Reform Statute Update Bill

Considering the need to maximize the effort to repair school buildings and installations,
Considering the need to give Local School Boards a bigger ability to fund School Vouchers Programs,
the Mideast Assembly hereby updates the Mideast Education Reform Statute.

Article I: In Section 1, the numbers "65", "20", "10", "5" are substituted to the numbers "70", "20", "5", "5".

Article II: In Section 2, Clause 1, the words "7%" are substituted to the words "1%".



Sobriety in the Mideast Public Finances Bill

Article I: From the beginning of the next fiscal year, a maximum of half of Mideast Government officers and employees retiring after the age of 60 shall be replaced.

Article II: The rule of Article I above does not apply to Mideast Government agencies working in the following fields:
- internal security,
- health and medical care,
- teaching and training,
- courts,
where employement rules shall continue to depend on the amouint of tasks to be dealt with.

Article III: The rule of Article I above shall remain in force until the Mideast Government budget is balanced.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 01, 2010, 04:44:29 AM
May I suggest that, for the next debates on 2005 and 2006 laws under the PASLBAG framework, each Assemblyman explicitly say that he doesn't want to change the law, so that the debate can be closed quickly when there is no change proposed ?

As for me, even if I have this proposal on the Education Statute Law, I already know that for many other laws, I won't put forward any change or update.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on March 01, 2010, 05:14:35 AM
Sobriety in the Mideast Public Finances Bill

Article I: From the beginning of the next fiscal year, a maximum of half of Mideast Government officers and employees retiring after the age of 60 shall be replaced.

Article II: The rule of Article I above does not apply to Mideast Government agencies working in the following fields:
- internal security,
- health and medical care,
- teaching and training,
- courts,
where employement rules shall continue to depend on the amouint of tasks to be dealt with.

Article III: The rule of Article I above shall remain in force until the Mideast Government budget is balanced.

Well, while this all sound very good in theory if you wish to cut down costs, it'd be impossible to implement in practice with so little detail and flexibility in the law. There'd need to be a more detailed plan as to which jobs we will remove, and which we would keep, so that the Mideast goverment don't crash because we have too much work but too little personnel. We'd need to know which jobs are going to disappear, and how we devide their work and responisibilities on a much smaller group of people.

The plan also need to have an end date to it, as it'd obviously be impossible to keep only replacing half of the retiering staff forever.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 01, 2010, 06:36:24 AM
Sobriety in the Mideast Public Finances Bill

Article I: From the beginning of the next fiscal year, a maximum of half of Mideast Government officers and employees retiring after the age of 60 shall be replaced.

Article II: The rule of Article I above does not apply to Mideast Government agencies working in the following fields:
- internal security,
- health and medical care,
- teaching and training,
- courts,
where employement rules shall continue to depend on the amouint of tasks to be dealt with.

Article III: The rule of Article I above shall remain in force until the Mideast Government budget is balanced.

Well, while this all sound very good in theory if you wish to cut down costs, it'd be impossible to implement in practice with so little detail and flexibility in the law. There'd need to be a more detailed plan as to which jobs we will remove, and which we would keep, so that the Mideast goverment don't crash because we have too much work but too little personnel. We'd need to know which jobs are going to disappear, and how we devide their work and responisibilities on a much smaller group of people.

The plan also need to have an end date to it, as it'd obviously be impossible to keep only replacing half of the retiering staff forever.

On the contrary, I think the executive branch, the Administration, has to remain free to decide where not to replace retiring employees.
For example, it may be decided that 3 out of 4 employees in Agricultural offices aren't replaced, while only 1 in 10 isn't replaced in Tax services. Overall, it should be 50%, but the executive branch should keep the flexibility to choose.

And I insist on the fact that it's only 50% of those retiring after 60: anyone retiring earlier or just quitting will still be replaced.

As for the end of the law, Article III may give a clue. If my fellow Assemblymen are OK, we can rewrite this Article so that the law ends after 3 years of surplus.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 01, 2010, 02:32:34 PM
Or how would we feel about just making it so that they lose their tax benefits for 2 years and have to pay any civil penalties as well - basically they'd have to pay numbers 1 and 2 not 1 or 2.

Yes, but in this case, 2 years is big when it's a fault of small importance. That's my problem.

How would we feel about 1 year then?

I would prefer a range, from one quarter to one year.

With who determining the length of time?  If you have an idea, put forward an amendment and I'll weigh in.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on March 01, 2010, 04:01:27 PM
Sorry my mistake Fab, I missed the 3rd article for some reason. So there's no problem with the eventual end then, just me who have trouble reading apperently.

Although I consider it an aimiable goal to reduce the Mideast Regional personnel, we cannot just set a number of employees that we must get rid of without taking other factors into account first. How will the workload be devided? What percentages of Regional Goverment employes will retire within the next five years? ... and so on. This plan is not flexible enough. I admit that the fact that the Goverment can decide which ares to cut jobs makes it better, but this is still not flexible enough.

I think it's important that we cut spending, and personnel is an area which of course also needs to be reduced to get a balanced budget. But I believe that with this plan you begin at the wrong end. We can reduce our emplyees, but unless we also reduce their workload, we will just create problems by being very under staffed.

Therefor what we need to do is to begin by getting rid of all unecessary programs that currently is taking up staff. There after we investigate in which areas it would be possible to cut personnel without the new workload getting to heavy, and then we make an estimate of how many emplyees we realisticly can spare. That's the number we should aim for.

But you know Fab, if you're very eagar to cut unecessary employees there's a place where I think you can begin ;) Assemblymen doesn't work for free. They too cost valuble tax money, and we currently have two more than we actually need. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 01, 2010, 06:16:56 PM
Or how would we feel about just making it so that they lose their tax benefits for 2 years and have to pay any civil penalties as well - basically they'd have to pay numbers 1 and 2 not 1 or 2.

Yes, but in this case, 2 years is big when it's a fault of small importance. That's my problem.

How would we feel about 1 year then?

I would prefer a range, from one quarter to one year.

With who determining the length of time?  If you have an idea, put forward an amendment and I'll weigh in.

The courts will determine it (like in the other article of the bill), we just set a range, inside which the courts are free to decide.
Am I correct ?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 01, 2010, 08:02:50 PM
How does this sound:

Quote
Labor Protection Act
Article I: Any corporation found in violation of national or regional labor laws shall :
   (1A): Forfeit tax benefits and subsidies for up to two tax years, the length of which shall be determined by a court of law.
   (2A): Pay up to one hundred thousand dollars as compensation for a violation of a national or regional labor law to any employee who is able to successfully prove a legitimate labor rights violation in a court of law.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 02, 2010, 03:16:23 AM
For me, it's perfect. Thanks, Mr. Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 02, 2010, 03:28:30 AM
Sorry my mistake Fab, I missed the 3rd article for some reason. So there's no problem with the eventual end then, just me who have trouble reading apperently.

Although I consider it an aimiable goal to reduce the Mideast Regional personnel, we cannot just set a number of employees that we must get rid of without taking other factors into account first. How will the workload be devided? What percentages of Regional Goverment employes will retire within the next five years? ... and so on. This plan is not flexible enough. I admit that the fact that the Goverment can decide which ares to cut jobs makes it better, but this is still not flexible enough.

I think it's important that we cut spending, and personnel is an area which of course also needs to be reduced to get a balanced budget. But I believe that with this plan you begin at the wrong end. We can reduce our emplyees, but unless we also reduce their workload, we will just create problems by being very under staffed.

Therefor what we need to do is to begin by getting rid of all unecessary programs that currently is taking up staff. There after we investigate in which areas it would be possible to cut personnel without the new workload getting to heavy, and then we make an estimate of how many emplyees we realisticly can spare. That's the number we should aim for.

But you know Fab, if you're very eagar to cut unecessary employees there's a place where I think you can begin ;) Assemblymen doesn't work for free. They too cost valuble tax money, and we currently have two more than we actually need. 

I think the law is here to set global aims. The executive branch will have to make choices at an infra-level.

The other issue is that, even with the same public policies, the rate of public employment is now excessive. Reorganizations and different methods and ways of working would be enough, in many cases, to deal with a diminishing level of public employees.

What is more, many administrative offices have "created" tasks and methods to justify their own existence, even when a program is dropped.

Again, it sounds big, but it's rather moderate. And it applies only to the regional government, not to local councils.
In France, currently, you've got 2,5 millions government employees and the same measure represents 40 000 to 50 000 suppressed jobs each year, i.e. about 2%.
It's really manageable.

As for the Assembly, a number of 3 or 5 for all the Mideast doesn't really make a difference.
But you're right, our 5-member Assembly hasn't confirmed hopes we could have on a more efficient work. My aim is also to try to deal with this ;).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 02, 2010, 09:40:52 AM
I move that the following be adopted as Amendment 5 to the Labor Protection Act:

Quote
Amendment 5 to the Labor Protection Act:

The Labor Protection Act shall be changed to read as follows:

Quote
Labor Protection Act
Article I: Any corporation found in violation of national or regional labor laws shall :
   (1A): Forfeit tax benefits and subsidies for up to two tax years, the length of which shall be determined by a court of law.
   (2A): Pay up to one hundred thousand dollars as compensation for a violation of a national or regional labor law to any employee who is able to successfully prove a legitimate labor rights violation in a court of law.



Voting is now open on Amendment 5 to the Labor Protection Act.  This will be a 24 hour vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 02, 2010, 10:04:57 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 02, 2010, 10:18:01 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on March 02, 2010, 08:27:24 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on March 02, 2010, 08:33:06 PM
aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 03, 2010, 12:21:34 AM
May I advise defining what the region's labor laws are?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Psychic Octopus on March 03, 2010, 05:22:48 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 04, 2010, 12:11:39 AM
On Amendment 5, the AYEs are 5 and the NAYs are 0.  The AYEs have it, and the amendment is agreed to.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 04, 2010, 12:13:16 AM
Voting is now open on the following bill, brought up under the rules of PASLBAG.  This will be a 48 hour vote:

Quote
Mideast Education Reform Statute Update Bill

Considering the need to maximize the effort to repair school buildings and installations,
Considering the need to give Local School Boards a bigger ability to fund School Vouchers Programs,
the Mideast Assembly hereby updates the Mideast Education Reform Statute.

Article I: In Section 1, the numbers "65", "20", "10", "5" are substituted to the numbers "70", "20", "5", "5".

Article II: In Section 2, Clause 1, the words "7%" are substituted to the words "1%".


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 04, 2010, 07:06:17 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 04, 2010, 09:45:13 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on March 04, 2010, 06:46:02 PM
NAY.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Psychic Octopus on March 05, 2010, 06:29:53 PM
AYE.

By the way, I would like to submit a bill following this one.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 05, 2010, 07:07:17 PM
Next in line to be brought to a vote will be this:

Quote
Sobriety in the Mideast Public Finances Bill

Article I: From the beginning of the next fiscal year, a maximum of half of Mideast Government officers and employees retiring after the age of 60 shall be replaced.

Article II: The rule of Article I above does not apply to Mideast Government agencies working in the following fields:
- internal security,
- health and medical care,
- teaching and training,
- courts,
where employement rules shall continue to depend on the amouint of tasks to be dealt with.

Article III: The rule of Article I above shall remain in force until the Mideast Government budget is balanced.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on March 05, 2010, 09:57:17 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 05, 2010, 10:00:47 PM

Hang on - not quite to the voting stage yet for the next bill.  I want to make sure that big bad fab is happy with the original version of the bill - I couldn't quite figure out if he wanted an amendment to it after Swedish Cheese posted his thoughts.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 07, 2010, 12:32:09 AM
I introduce the following resolution, and give it top priority.  Unfortunately, I don't think we have the power to do much more than this, but if my fellow Assemblymen feel that we can act more forcefully, please say so:

Quote
Resolution to Ensure the Security and Complete Unity of the Estranged Republic, Safely

Whereas, the Southeast region has taken recent actions that harm the unity of the Republic of Atlasia.
Whereas, the Southeast region has created a militia to force it's unconscionable law to ship prisoners to the Pacific region, a move that the Mideast views as a move of hostility of military proportions.

Be it resolved, we encourage the Governor to offer the resources of the Mideast to aid the Pacific region and the federal government of the Republic of Atlasia in stopping this act of civil war.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on March 07, 2010, 03:15:44 PM
Looks fine to me; if things get worse, I'll introduce a new resolution, so this will do for now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 08, 2010, 04:13:29 AM
Good resolution, Mr.Speaker.

And I won't amend my own proposal, even after our dear Governor made his remarks.
Of course, I'm open if any of my fellow Assemblyman wants to change something.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on March 08, 2010, 09:13:00 AM
I don't think we have more power, either. It's as far as we can get.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 08, 2010, 03:00:13 PM
On the final vote for the Mideast Education Reform Statute Update Bill:

The AYEs are 3, and the NAYs are 1, with 1 member not voting.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.



Considering that the Southeast's Executive Orders have been rescinded, I'm going to table my resolution for now, but not withdraw it just yet - I want to see how all of this ends before I put my guard down.



So with that, I bring the following bill to a vote.  This will be a 48 hour vote:
Quote
Sobriety in the Mideast Public Finances Bill

Article I: From the beginning of the next fiscal year, a maximum of half of Mideast Government officers and employees retiring after the age of 60 shall be replaced.

Article II: The rule of Article I above does not apply to Mideast Government agencies working in the following fields:
- internal security,
- health and medical care,
- teaching and training,
- courts,
where employement rules shall continue to depend on the amouint of tasks to be dealt with.

Article III: The rule of Article I above shall remain in force until the Mideast Government budget is balanced.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Psychic Octopus on March 08, 2010, 03:08:43 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 08, 2010, 04:59:36 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on March 08, 2010, 05:25:34 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on March 08, 2010, 05:59:18 PM
I'd just like to say that the Pacific is glad to know we have a friend in the Mideast Region. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 09, 2010, 01:30:17 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on March 09, 2010, 09:04:50 AM
I'd just like to say that the Pacific is glad to know we have a friend in the Mideast Region. :)

Lots of them, actually. :)

Liberalism, conservatism, libertarianism and other ideologies aside: All Atlasians unite when one group attempts secession and civil war.

Actually, I think the SE is just still pissed they lost the last Civil War. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on March 09, 2010, 09:17:04 AM
Aye

I'd just like to say that the Pacific is glad to know we have a friend in the Mideast Region. :)

Lots of them, actually. :)

Liberalism, conservatism, libertarianism and other ideologies aside: All Atlasians unite when one group attempts secession and civil war.

Actually, I think the SE is just still pissed they lost the last Civil War. ;)

Virginia?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on March 09, 2010, 09:36:52 AM
Aye

I'd just like to say that the Pacific is glad to know we have a friend in the Mideast Region. :)

Lots of them, actually. :)

Liberalism, conservatism, libertarianism and other ideologies aside: All Atlasians unite when one group attempts secession and civil war.

Actually, I think the SE is just still pissed they lost the last Civil War. ;)

Virginia?

Atlasia has had like 3 more quasi civil wars with the SE being a large point in them ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on March 09, 2010, 04:55:57 PM
Aye

I'd just like to say that the Pacific is glad to know we have a friend in the Mideast Region. :)

Lots of them, actually. :)

Liberalism, conservatism, libertarianism and other ideologies aside: All Atlasians unite when one group attempts secession and civil war.

Actually, I think the SE is just still pissed they lost the last Civil War. ;)

Virginia?

Well, I see your point. I understand the entire Confederacy isn't in the SE, but all of the SE is in the old Confederacy (except Puerto Rico).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on March 09, 2010, 07:52:28 PM
Aye

I'd just like to say that the Pacific is glad to know we have a friend in the Mideast Region. :)

Lots of them, actually. :)

Liberalism, conservatism, libertarianism and other ideologies aside: All Atlasians unite when one group attempts secession and civil war.

Actually, I think the SE is just still pissed they lost the last Civil War. ;)

Virginia?

Well, I see your point. I understand the entire Confederacy isn't in the SE, but all of the SE is in the old Confederacy (except NM and Puerto Rico, IIRC).

No.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 09, 2010, 11:23:33 PM
Aye

I'd just like to say that the Pacific is glad to know we have a friend in the Mideast Region. :)

Lots of them, actually. :)

Liberalism, conservatism, libertarianism and other ideologies aside: All Atlasians unite when one group attempts secession and civil war.

Actually, I think the SE is just still pissed they lost the last Civil War. ;)

Virginia?

Well, I see your point. I understand the entire Confederacy isn't in the SE, but all of the SE is in the old Confederacy (except NM and Puerto Rico, IIRC).

No.

Yeah, NM is in the Pacific.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on March 10, 2010, 12:17:11 PM
Aye

I'd just like to say that the Pacific is glad to know we have a friend in the Mideast Region. :)

Lots of them, actually. :)

Liberalism, conservatism, libertarianism and other ideologies aside: All Atlasians unite when one group attempts secession and civil war.

Actually, I think the SE is just still pissed they lost the last Civil War. ;)

Virginia?

Well, I see your point. I understand the entire Confederacy isn't in the SE, but all of the SE is in the old Confederacy (except NM and Puerto Rico, IIRC).

No.

Yeah, NM is in the Pacific.

Wasn't sure about that. Corrected.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 10, 2010, 08:44:29 PM
On the final vote for the Sobriety in the Mideast Public Finances Bill:

The AYEs are 5, and the NAYs are 0.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 10, 2010, 11:38:14 PM
With debate having ended at least 24 hours ago, voting is now open on the following bill.  This will be a 48 hour vote:

Quote
Labor Protection Act
Article I: Any corporation found in violation of national or regional labor laws shall :
   (1A): Forfeit tax benefits and subsidies for up to two tax years, the length of which shall be determined by a court of law.
   (2A): Pay up to one hundred thousand dollars as compensation for a violation of a national or regional labor law to any employee who is able to successfully prove a legitimate labor rights violation in a court of law.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: segwaystyle2012 on March 10, 2010, 11:46:57 PM
Aye

I'd just like to say that the Pacific is glad to know we have a friend in the Mideast Region. :)

Lots of them, actually. :)

Liberalism, conservatism, libertarianism and other ideologies aside: All Atlasians unite when one group attempts secession and civil war.

Actually, I think the SE is just still pissed they lost the last Civil War. ;)

Virginia?

Well, I see your point. I understand the entire Confederacy isn't in the SE, but all of the SE is in the old Confederacy (except NM and Puerto Rico, IIRC).

No.

Yeah, NM is in the Pacific.

NM was also in the Confederacy, just not as a state.

By the way, my real reason for popping is was for Mideasterners to let me know what they think of my proposed used car sales tax.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 11, 2010, 03:13:12 AM
With debate having ended at least 24 hours ago, voting is now open on the following bill.  This will be a 48 hour vote:

Quote
Labor Protection Act
Article I: Any corporation found in violation of national or regional labor laws shall :
   (1A): Forfeit tax benefits and subsidies for up to two tax years, the length of which shall be determined by a court of law.
   (2A): Pay up to one hundred thousand dollars as compensation for a violation of a national or regional labor law to any employee who is able to successfully prove a legitimate labor rights violation in a court of law.

AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 11, 2010, 03:16:49 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on March 11, 2010, 05:53:23 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on March 12, 2010, 04:25:19 AM
Guys I'm going to fullfill one of my campaign promisis. I'd like to introduce the following:

Amendment to Amend the Amendment That Amended an Amended Assembly

The Amendment to Amend Article III of the Mideast Constitution, is herby repealed.





For you who don't know what I'm talking about.

Quote
1) The Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read as follows:

"Article III - Legislation and Recall
Section 1: The Assembly
The legislative power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Mideast Assembly.
The Assembly shall be composed of five members, each of whom shall be registered voters residing in the Mideast Region.

Section 2: Legislation
All ordinary legislation shall first be considered in the Assembly.
Legislation shall be considered by the Assembly upon petition of any Assembly member, the Governor, or two Mideast citizens.
Should the Assembly pass ordinary legislation by a majority vote, then the Governor may sign such legislation into Law, or veto such legislation. A veto may be overturned upon the two-thirds vote of the Assembly. "

2. The effective date of this amendment shall be concurrent with the November 2009 Mideast Assembly Elections.




I personally feel that the expansion of this body has worked rather ill. Elections are less competive, as there are too many seats, too few candidates. The work of the Assembly has become much less effective. Debating and voting takes much longer time, and bills that in the three seat assembly would have been handled in a single day or two, now is pending for a rather long time without reason. Many of this assembly's members have also been very inactive, I suspect in large part because there are to little work for 5 assemblymen to be busy.

We tried this model, and it is my oppinion that it has worked worse than our previous Assembly. A lot of Mideasterners share my oppinion, and during my run for Governor I promised them I'd push for a potential repeal. Therefore I'd like for this assembly to reconsider this amendment.     


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 12, 2010, 04:38:44 AM
In that case, you can stick it on a ballot whenever you want (within the guidelines of electoral calendaring, of course).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 12, 2010, 05:41:57 AM
The precedent Assembly was indeed rather inactive.
This one is pretty much active, I think we all can acknowledge it.

With our dear Speaker soon keeping on implementing the PASLBAG law, we'll have soon more debates on old laws and that may imply new legislative work.
I think we should wait for another term, in order to see if the PASLBAG law indeed makes every Assemblyman take part actively in the legislative work of our Assembly.

I'm myself a bit sceptical about this enlargement to five members.
But I don't think the changes in the work of our Assembly depend on the number of our Assemblymen.
In the beginning of 2009, a 3-member Assembly wasn't very active.
Then, on the contrary, in the mid-2009, a 3-member Assembly was a pretty lively one.
It has been the same for the 5-member Assemblies.

Mideasterners who want even more activity int he Assembly should be candidates.

It seems as if there will be more candidates this time...
So, let's give this enlargement one more term to prove to be efficient or not.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on March 12, 2010, 06:09:34 AM
In that case, you can stick it on a ballot whenever you want (within the guidelines of electoral calendaring, of course).

I can? Sweet :)

Of course if you guys don't mind me taking up some of your time I'd want to hear the Assemblymen's oppinion on this. I think it's important to have your oppinion before I move forward.

Quote
So, let's give this enlargement one more term to prove to be efficient or not.

Considering how close we are to the next Assembly elections, I doubt that there is any way I could possibly push this through before the next Assembly is seated, so you will have another chance to prove yourself before reform like this could be passed.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on March 12, 2010, 06:19:17 AM
On another note though

Quote
Mideast Education Reform Statute Update Bill

Considering the need to maximize the effort to repair school buildings and installations,
Considering the need to give Local School Boards a bigger ability to fund School Vouchers Programs,
the Mideast Assembly hereby updates the Mideast Education Reform Statute.

Article I: In Section 1, the numbers "65", "20", "10", "5" are substituted to the numbers "70", "20", "5", "5".

Article II: In Section 2, Clause 1, the words "7%" are substituted to the words "1%".


- Swedish Cheese

Quote
Sobriety in the Mideast Public Finances Bill

Article I: From the beginning of the next fiscal year, a maximum of half of Mideast Government officers and employees retiring after the age of 60 shall be replaced.

Article II: The rule of Article I above does not apply to Mideast Government agencies working in the following fields:
- internal security,
- health and medical care,
- teaching and training,
- courts,
where employement rules shall continue to depend on the amouint of tasks to be dealt with.

Article III: The rule of Article I above shall remain in force until the Mideast Government budget is balanced.

I'd like to veto this, but considering the vote was five in favour I see no point as it would be overriden, and would only cause a lot of procedural work and a minor delay. So...

- Swedish Cheese
 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 12, 2010, 11:02:02 AM
Personally, I'd like to see how the next Assembly goes before we change anything, but again, the timing of the Amendment is really up to you.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 13, 2010, 07:20:26 PM
On the final vote for the Labor Protection Act:

The AYEs are 3, and the NAYs are 0, with 2 not voting.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on March 13, 2010, 07:23:30 PM
I'm glad to see my labor bill passed.  It's not as strong as I had hoped it would be, but unfortunately I did not have the time to really work on getting a stronger bill passed.  Hopefully I'll have time in the next session to get more legislation passed, better defining exactly what labor laws exist, and getting more stringent and defined penalties onto the books.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 13, 2010, 07:33:44 PM
I'm glad to see my labor bill passed.  It's not as strong as I had hoped it would be, but unfortunately I did not have the time to really work on getting a stronger bill passed.  Hopefully I'll have time in the next session to get more legislation passed, better defining exactly what labor laws exist, and getting more stringent and defined penalties onto the books.

But instead of just paying 1 penalty, they pay 2 now, so while it may have weakened the bill in areas, it strengthened it in others.  I think it's a pretty good bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on March 13, 2010, 08:09:49 PM
But instead of just paying 1 penalty, they pay 2 now, so while it may have weakened the bill in areas, it strengthened it in others.  I think it's a pretty good bill.

It's a good bill, which is why I voted for it.  I didn't have any objections strong enough to provoke a negative vote; if I'm reelected, though, I intend to go back to work on an overall tougher bill, and hopefully one which clearly defines our labor laws, to clear up any questions Mideastern businesses may have.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Psychic Octopus on March 14, 2010, 04:21:33 PM
Can I introduce a bill, my good friends? It would be rather important, so I was just curious.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 14, 2010, 07:21:52 PM
Can I introduce a bill, my good friends? It would be rather important, so I was just curious.

Absolutely.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Psychic Octopus on March 14, 2010, 07:40:03 PM
Second Hand Act of 2010

1. The Office of Lieutenant Governor is re-established in the Mideast Region.

2. The Mideast Lieutenant Governor would be elected in a separate election from the Governor of the Mideast, although elections would occur at the same time (January, May, September).

3. If passed, the Lieutenant Governor would step in and become Acting Governor of the Mideast if the current Governor declared his or her absence for a period of time. If the Governor is declared inactive, the Lieutenant Governor would be promoted to Governor of the Mideast.

4. If the Lieutenant Governor is declared inactive or the position is vacant, the Governor of the Mideast has the authority to appoint a new Lieutenant Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on March 14, 2010, 08:39:18 PM
I could support this, but I think the lieutenant governor ought to be elected on the same ticket.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 14, 2010, 10:10:28 PM
Point of order: this would have to be a Constitutional Amendment.  I formally write it up for you if you want, but I'd probably be opposed to adding another office to the regional government at this point in time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Psychic Octopus on March 14, 2010, 11:42:25 PM
Point of order: this would have to be a Constitutional Amendment.  I formally write it up for you if you want, but I'd probably be opposed to adding another office to the regional government at this point in time.

Oh, yeah, forgot that it would have to be a constitutional amendment. D'oh!

Sure, if you wish to write it up, please do so.

I could support this, but I think the lieutenant governor ought to be elected on the same ticket.

Well, perhaps. I was thinking more along the lines of parties putting up tickets, but the elections being separate. Either way would be fine.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 15, 2010, 05:50:28 AM
Like our Speaker, I'm reluctant to create another government position.

We need to contain or even reduce our public spendings.
Our 5-member Assembly is already disputed (but I think there is work for 5 members: don't forget the PASLBAG law ! ;) - hey, Mr.Speaker... ,)).

And we don't need a Lt. Governor who would be here just ro replace a vacancy in the Governorship.

Our Assembly would be glad to hear our Governor's opinion on this proposal, I think.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on March 15, 2010, 09:06:52 AM
I question the need for an office that exists for no other purpose than to step up when and if a vacancy, either permanent or short term, occurs.

If someone could refresh my memory, though, what is the current regional law regarding the line of succession for governor? I assume there is one, and if so it involves the Speaker of the Assembly somehow.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on March 15, 2010, 10:10:08 AM
I question the need for an office that exists for no other purpose than to step up when and if a vacancy, either permanent or short term, occurs.

If someone could refresh my memory, though, what is the current regional law regarding the line of succession for governor? I assume there is one, and if so it involves the Speaker of the Assembly somehow.

Governor---->Speaker------>Justice---->Rest of Assembly by seniority


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on March 15, 2010, 05:05:49 PM
I question the need for an office that exists for no other purpose than to step up when and if a vacancy, either permanent or short term, occurs.

If someone could refresh my memory, though, what is the current regional law regarding the line of succession for governor? I assume there is one, and if so it involves the Speaker of the Assembly somehow.

Governor---->Speaker------>Justice---->Rest of Assembly by seniority

Thanks Hap!

Yeah, no need to create an office who's sole duty is to be added to an already full line of succession.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on March 16, 2010, 04:22:37 PM
Quote
Our Assembly would be glad to hear our Governor's opinion on this proposal, I think.
   
I could support a Lt. Governorship, but only if it was done simultaneously to reducing the number of assemblymen. I think that just continuing adding more and more offices is rather irresponisble but if it's simply replacing another office(s), I wouldn't mind serving with a Lt.




Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on March 16, 2010, 06:25:22 PM
I think a possible compromise would be reducing the number of Assemblymen to 4 and creating a Lt. Governor. If there ever happened to be a tie in the Assembly, the Lt. Governor would break the tie. This would make Assembly elections more competitive, and would mean another contested election, which could potentially boost regional activity.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on March 16, 2010, 09:18:18 PM
Don't make a Lieutenant Governor. Most of you don't remember when there was one, but I can assure you that it was abolished for a very good reason.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 16, 2010, 11:36:37 PM
How's this, Nik?

Quote
Second Hand Amendment of 2010

The words "or Lieutenant Governor" shall be added after the word "Governor" in Article I, Section 1, Clause 2.

Article I, Section 2, Clause 1, Sentence 1 shall be amended to read, "Elections to the posts of Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall be held in the months of January, May, and September."

Article I, Section 3, Clause 1 shall be amended to read: "If the Governorship shall fall vacant, the Lieutenant Governor shall become Governor.  If both the Governorship and Lieutenant Governorship shall fall vacant, the Speaker of the Assembly shall become Governor."

Article I, Section 3, Clause 2 shall be amended to read: "If the Governorship, Lieutenant Governorship, and Speakership shall fall vacant then the vacancy shall be filled in a manner specified by Law."

In Article I, Section 3, Clause 3, the word "Speaker" shall be replaced with the words "Lieutenant Governor".

The words "or Lieutenant Governorship" shall be added to the end of the title of Article I, Section 3.

The following shall be added to Article I, Section 3, as Clause 4: "3.If the Lieutenant Governorship shall fall vacant, the Governor shall nominate a new Lieutenant Governor. "


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on March 16, 2010, 11:39:09 PM
I'll agree with most of the other posts here--I'll need some convincing as to why the position is necessary.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 16, 2010, 11:49:05 PM
Like I said before - I probably won't support this.  I just made the words look all pretty and technical.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on March 17, 2010, 12:28:27 AM
Don't make a Lieutenant Governor. Most of you don't remember when there was one, but I can assure you that it was abolished for a very good reason.

Xahar is correct here.

In the context of the other regions, you can describe the Mideast as the developed nation amid the developing world. We have had a steady and well-structured government for quite a bit longer than the other regions, meaning many of the issues that are still unsettled elsewhere were solved ages ago for us.

Though the lack of a Lt. Governor may seem odd or counter-productive to newer members, the original decision to abolish the position was founded in solid points that continue to prevail. I encourage you to read through that discussion before voting on this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on March 17, 2010, 04:14:59 AM
Btw, I think I should remind you guys that you haven't finished voting on the Labour Protection Act, and still needs to vote on the resolution about the SE.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on March 17, 2010, 07:36:06 AM
I'll agree with most of the other posts here--I'll need some convincing as to why the position is necessary.

^^^^^ this. Big time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 17, 2010, 09:09:28 AM
On the final vote for the Labor Protection Act:

The AYEs are 3, and the NAYs are 0, with 2 not voting.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.

Mr. Governor, maybe there has been a problem during the transmitting process :).

And the resolution on the SE has been withdrawn, I think.



But, Mr. Speaker, I think we can keep on reviewing old laws, along the PASLBAG law.

As for me, the 3 next ones of 2005:
Mideast Election & Vote Regulations Statute
Mideast Campaigning in Voting Booths Statute
Mideast Jury Selection Statute

wouldn't appeal any remark.

Maybe you can open the debate on the 3 at once.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on March 17, 2010, 01:16:08 PM
Quote
Mr. Governor, maybe there has been a problem during the transmitting process

*Facepalm*

Why do I keep missing these things? Oh well to the signing table.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 17, 2010, 11:09:45 PM
The following three laws are brought up for debate under the rules of PASLBAG.  Due to some wording in PASLBAG (which I hope to amend - see below), we have to debate a bill even if it has since been repealed (like the first bill here has):

Mideast Election & Vote Regulations Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Election_and_Vote_Regulations_Statute)
Mideast Campaigning in Voting Booths Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Campaining_in_Voting_Booths_Statute)
Mideast Jury Selection Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Jury_Selection_Statute)

Since 1 of these has since been repealed, and the other 2 I see no problems with, I ask unanimous consent that the Assembly end debate on the above three statutes.



Now, as to the part of PASLBAG that requires us to discuss bills that we have already repealed, I introduce the following bill:

Quote
The PASLBAG Relevancy Bill

The following shall be added to The Periodic Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government (PASLBAG) law:

Quote
IV. Only statutes which remain in effect shall be brought up for debate.  Repealed or expired laws will not automatically be brought up for debate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 18, 2010, 04:14:49 AM
AYE

AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 18, 2010, 08:59:13 AM

Slow down there.  There's not vote on the first motion, and I want to give a little bit of discussion time to my bill, in case anybody has any comments.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on March 18, 2010, 11:59:27 AM

Slow down there.  There's not vote on the first motion, and I want to give a little bit of discussion time to my bill, in case anybody has any comments.

In fairness to Fab, "ask(ing) for unanimous consent" does sound like calling for an immediate vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 18, 2010, 01:22:52 PM

Slow down there.  There's not vote on the first motion, and I want to give a little bit of discussion time to my bill, in case anybody has any comments.

In fairness to Fab, "ask(ing) for unanimous consent" does sound like calling for an immediate vote.
Yep, I think I should have written "Aye" and not "AYE" ;).

Well, anyway, I think I've expressed a clearopinion in each case ! ;)

Until the end, this Assembly will have been busy and I'm very glad and proud of it !


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 20, 2010, 04:40:42 AM
On the motion to end debate: without objection, so ordered.



I am now bringing this to a vote.  This will be a 24 hour vote:

Quote
The PASLBAG Relevancy Bill

The following shall be added to The Periodic Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government (PASLBAG) law:

Quote
IV. Only statutes which remain in effect shall be brought up for debate.  Repealed or expired laws will not automatically be brought up for debate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 20, 2010, 04:41:41 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 20, 2010, 12:22:36 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on March 20, 2010, 10:33:13 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on March 21, 2010, 12:12:15 AM
Aye!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 21, 2010, 02:52:43 PM
On the final vote for The PASLBAG Relevancy Bill:

The AYEs are 4, and the NAYs are 0, with 1 not voting.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on March 21, 2010, 02:58:42 PM
Quote
The PASLBAG Relevancy Bill

The following shall be added to The Periodic Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government (PASLBAG) law:

Quote
IV. Only statutes which remain in effect shall be brought up for debate.  Repealed or expired laws will not automatically be brought up for debate.

- Swedish Cheese



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 23, 2010, 10:16:20 PM
I'll be introducing a bill after Friday, when the new session starts, to fix an error in the election statute (there's an issue with how we break ties in Assembly elections that I noticed - back when we fixed the voting laws after we expanded the Assembly, we overlooked regulations on how we break ties, and stopped tie-breakers at 3 Assemblymen, and it needs to be extended to 5).  I don't feel like rushing it through this Assembly, and I've got a few exams this week, so I'll probably just let us sit here as a lame duck Assembly and essentially take the rest of the week off.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 26, 2010, 01:33:49 PM
I hereby adjourn the 10th session of the Assembly.  All business of the 10th session is hereby dismissed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on March 26, 2010, 04:32:49 PM
When do we swear in?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on March 26, 2010, 04:48:10 PM
I just sent you instructions via pm. Let me know if you have any more questions, and I'll be glad to help. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 27, 2010, 09:19:10 PM
OK - I guess I'll just head up the Assembly until we elect a Speaker... the 11th Session of the Assembly is now in session.  Please swear yourselves in.  Nominations for Speaker will now be excepted, and nominations will last for 48 hours.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on March 27, 2010, 10:30:23 PM
Technically, Inks, as Dean, I'm supposed to do this, but it all works out in the end.

On that point, I nominate Inks to be the next Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on March 27, 2010, 10:32:37 PM
Technically, Inks, as Dean, I'm supposed to do this, but it all works out in the end.

On that point, I nominate Inks to be the next Speaker.

second that


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 27, 2010, 11:54:36 PM
Technically, Inks, as Dean, I'm supposed to do this, but it all works out in the end.

On that point, I nominate Inks to be the next Speaker.

Yeah - I was gonna let the Dean do it, but I couldn't remember who that was, but was too lazy to look it up, so figured I'd do it (that, and we really don't have very strict rules of procedure)... anyway, I'll accept the nomination.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 28, 2010, 01:46:42 AM
I'll be working on an infrastructure bill this week, and I'd like to introduce toll roads and bridges to help pay for the construction projects as well as reduce the deficit in the future.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on March 28, 2010, 10:03:58 AM
I'm looking forward to it Inks.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on March 28, 2010, 12:28:12 PM
I'll be working on an infrastructure bill this week, and I'd like to introduce toll roads and bridges to help pay for the construction projects as well as reduce the deficit in the future.

how about HOV lanes that must be paid for single person usage


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on March 29, 2010, 03:07:07 AM
Sorry for being a bit late, my fellow Assemblymen. The previous session was exhausting ;)

I'm glad to see that our Speaker will keep on presiding our debates.
I welcome our new members, A-Bob and HappyWarrior, who will be fine Assemblymen, Im' sure of it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 29, 2010, 04:22:15 PM
Considering the fact that I am one of those who was hit severely hard by the recent forum problems, I am putting the recess in Assembly until Mr. Leip fixes the problem.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 01, 2010, 12:40:19 AM
I'm a bit tied up with other things right now - if somebody has something they'd like to introduce, now would be an ideal time to do it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 01, 2010, 09:59:36 AM
The Return of Rhetoric Bill
Article I: All students grades 9-12 in public schools in the Mideast shall be required to take at least three years of debate and speech classes.
Article II: All schools in the Mideast that currently offer debate and speech classes will receive a 5% tax exemption from the Mideastern Government for the upcoming tax year.
Article III: All schools that cannot afford to have debate and speech classes will receive a subsidy from the Mideastern Government to hire teachers and buy supplies.
Article IV: Those funds will be paid for by reducing the amount the Mideast spends on education vouchers.
Article V: This bill will go into effect with the 2010-2011 school year.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on April 01, 2010, 06:25:40 PM
The Return of Rhetoric Bill
Article I: All students grades 9-12 in public schools in the Mideast shall be required to take at least three years of debate and speech classes.
Article II: All schools in the Mideast that currently offer debate and speech classes will receive a 5% tax exemption from the Mideastern Government for the upcoming tax year.
Article III: All schools that cannot afford to have debate and speech classes will receive a subsidy from the Mideastern Government to hire teachers and buy supplies.
Article IV: Those funds will be paid for by reducing the amount the Mideast spends on education vouchers.
Article V: This bill will go into effect with the 2010-2011 school year.
Really, Ben? ::)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 01, 2010, 06:28:40 PM

The skills learned in debate and speech (research, logic, public speaking, etc) are invaluable in the adult world.  Students should learn these skills early, so they can use them in adulthood.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 01, 2010, 06:33:32 PM

The skills learned in debate and speech (research, logic, public speaking, etc) are invaluable in the adult world.  Students should learn these skills early, so they can use them in adulthood.

but three years in return for denying kids the opportunity to escape failing schools? Maybe a semester or one year I would consider voting for it, but three years. It's not like students don't debate in other classes as well


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 01, 2010, 07:02:24 PM
I'd support making it a possible elective I think.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on April 01, 2010, 07:38:16 PM

The skills learned in debate and speech (research, logic, public speaking, etc) are invaluable in the adult world.  Students should learn these skills early, so they can use them in adulthood.

A lot of different things could fall under that category. For some kids, though, actually, for many kids, it will be of no use. Students in the Mideast already have quite a few required classes, and heaping another one on top of that, a class that isn't needed nearly as much as Science or Math, would give students less choice on which classes they would like to take.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 01, 2010, 07:45:22 PM
Following Ben's bill I would like to introduce this bill :)

  A RESOLUTION CONCERNING
    INVASIVE SPECIES-NEED FOR A STUDY IN THE Mideast Region
  WHEREAS:  For the purpose of conducting research into the dangers of invasive species in the Mideast Region.
  WHEREAS: Invasive or “alien” species have been proven to have an adverse effect in ecosystems in many cases including deaths of native species and damage to the regional economy
 WHEREAS: Species which are at present problems or may become problems include Snakehead Fish, Grass Carp, Nutria, Imported Fire Ants, Japanese Beetles, and various snakes.
BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast Assembly shall hereby commission a study into the dangers 100 posed by various species which are invasive and alien to the Mideast region.  This study will be to look into which species pose the most danger and what the Mideast Region may do about it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 01, 2010, 08:49:36 PM
Following Ben's bill I would like to introduce this bill :)

  A RESOLUTION CONCERNING
    INVASIVE SPECIES-NEED FOR A STUDY IN THE Mideast Region
  WHEREAS:  For the purpose of conducting research into the dangers of invasive species in the Mideast Region.
  WHEREAS: Invasive or “alien” species have been proven to have an adverse effect in ecosystems in many cases including deaths of native species and damage to the regional economy
 WHEREAS: Species which are at present problems or may become problems include Snakehead Fish, Grass Carp, Nutria, Imported Fire Ants, Japanese Beetles, and various snakes.
BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast Assembly shall hereby commission a study into the dangers 100 posed by various species which are invasive and alien to the Mideast region.  This study will be to look into which species pose the most danger and what the Mideast Region may do about it.

cost for this?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 02, 2010, 12:50:56 AM
Following Ben's bill I would like to introduce this bill :)

  A RESOLUTION CONCERNING
    INVASIVE SPECIES-NEED FOR A STUDY IN THE Mideast Region
  WHEREAS:  For the purpose of conducting research into the dangers of invasive species in the Mideast Region.
  WHEREAS: Invasive or “alien” species have been proven to have an adverse effect in ecosystems in many cases including deaths of native species and damage to the regional economy
 WHEREAS: Species which are at present problems or may become problems include Snakehead Fish, Grass Carp, Nutria, Imported Fire Ants, Japanese Beetles, and various snakes.
BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast Assembly shall hereby commission a study into the dangers 100 posed by various species which are invasive and alien to the Mideast region.  This study will be to look into which species pose the most danger and what the Mideast Region may do about it.

cost for this?

Likely very low, it is not a huge expenditiure.  Meanwhile some invasive species cost a huge amount of money in terms of lost production.  For instance the Kudzu plant costs $500 million dollars in lost agriculture in the nation anually, this being a rough estimate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on April 02, 2010, 02:47:57 AM
The Return of Rhetoric Bill
Article I: All students grades 9-12 in public schools in the Mideast shall be required to take at least three years of debate and speech classes.
Article II: All schools in the Mideast that currently offer debate and speech classes will receive a 5% tax exemption from the Mideastern Government for the upcoming tax year.
Article III: All schools that cannot afford to have debate and speech classes will receive a subsidy from the Mideastern Government to hire teachers and buy supplies.
Article IV: Those funds will be paid for by reducing the amount the Mideast spends on education vouchers.
Article V: This bill will go into effect with the 2010-2011 school year.

A 5% tax exemption is completely insane, to be honest.
Additional subsidies just for this while knowledge in languages and mathematics are in a very bad shape cannot be accepted.
Diminishing vouchers, which have a wide and principled basis, just for paying for one specific skill cannot be accepted either.

Well, it seems as if I completely disagree on this bill, sorry my fellow Assemblyman ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on April 02, 2010, 07:34:50 AM
The Return of Rhetoric Bill
Article I: All students grades 9-12 in public schools in the Mideast shall be required to take at least three years of debate and speech classes.
Article II: All schools in the Mideast that currently offer debate and speech classes will receive a 5% tax exemption from the Mideastern Government for the upcoming tax year.
Article III: All schools that cannot afford to have debate and speech classes will receive a subsidy from the Mideastern Government to hire teachers and buy supplies.
Article IV: Those funds will be paid for by reducing the amount the Mideast spends on education vouchers.
Article V: This bill will go into effect with the 2010-2011 school year.

Wouldn't a reasonable compromise be to require debate and speech be included as an element in already mandatory English classes, as we have it in Sweden, where debate and speech is a part of Swedish class?

I completely agree with you Ben on the virtues of debate and speech, and the knowledge you gain from it, but to make it a recuried subject for three years seems a bit excessive to me.

Also I have to agree with this:   

Quote
A 5% tax exemption is completely insane, to be honest

Quote
Diminishing vouchers, which have a wide and principled basis, just for paying for one specific skill cannot be accepted either


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 02, 2010, 11:04:42 AM
Following Ben's bill I would like to introduce this bill :)

  A RESOLUTION CONCERNING
    INVASIVE SPECIES-NEED FOR A STUDY IN THE Mideast Region
  WHEREAS:  For the purpose of conducting research into the dangers of invasive species in the Mideast Region.
  WHEREAS: Invasive or “alien” species have been proven to have an adverse effect in ecosystems in many cases including deaths of native species and damage to the regional economy
 WHEREAS: Species which are at present problems or may become problems include Snakehead Fish, Grass Carp, Nutria, Imported Fire Ants, Japanese Beetles, and various snakes.
BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast Assembly shall hereby commission a study into the dangers 100 posed by various species which are invasive and alien to the Mideast region.  This study will be to look into which species pose the most danger and what the Mideast Region may do about it.

cost for this?

Likely very low, it is not a huge expenditiure.  Meanwhile some invasive species cost a huge amount of money in terms of lost production.  For instance the Kudzu plant costs $500 million dollars in lost agriculture in the nation anually, this being a rough estimate.
fighting off species is not easy to do at all and will likely cost a lot for the actual process to kick out these invasive species


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 02, 2010, 11:21:24 AM
Wouldn't a reasonable compromise be to require debate and speech be included as an element in already mandatory English classes, as we have it in Sweden, where debate and speech is a part of Swedish class?

I could completely agree to that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 02, 2010, 11:28:05 AM
Following Ben's bill I would like to introduce this bill :)

  A RESOLUTION CONCERNING
    INVASIVE SPECIES-NEED FOR A STUDY IN THE Mideast Region
  WHEREAS:  For the purpose of conducting research into the dangers of invasive species in the Mideast Region.
  WHEREAS: Invasive or “alien” species have been proven to have an adverse effect in ecosystems in many cases including deaths of native species and damage to the regional economy
 WHEREAS: Species which are at present problems or may become problems include Snakehead Fish, Grass Carp, Nutria, Imported Fire Ants, Japanese Beetles, and various snakes.
BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast Assembly shall hereby commission a study into the dangers 100 posed by various species which are invasive and alien to the Mideast region.  This study will be to look into which species pose the most danger and what the Mideast Region may do about it.

cost for this?

Likely very low, it is not a huge expenditiure.  Meanwhile some invasive species cost a huge amount of money in terms of lost production.  For instance the Kudzu plant costs $500 million dollars in lost agriculture in the nation anually, this being a rough estimate.
fighting off species is not easy to do at all and will likely cost a lot for the actual process to kick out these invasive species

Far less than $500 Million dollars annually I'm sure.  Anyways this will simply be a study and is not yet calling for any concrete action.  The main point of this is to get the GM to put out a report.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on April 02, 2010, 01:36:57 PM
Wouldn't a reasonable compromise be to require debate and speech be included as an element in already mandatory English classes, as we have it in Sweden, where debate and speech is a part of Swedish class?

I could completely agree to that.

Good idea. 3 years is massively excessive.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 02, 2010, 05:21:52 PM
Wouldn't a reasonable compromise be to require debate and speech be included as an element in already mandatory English classes, as we have it in Sweden, where debate and speech is a part of Swedish class?

I could completely agree to that.

Good idea. 3 years is massively excessive.

i would go for that too


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 02, 2010, 06:25:06 PM
I'll look at this and try to get something out before the holiday. Otherwise, I may have to do this on Wednesday.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 06, 2010, 04:54:24 PM
Alright - sorry I've been inactive a bit - life got hectic.  Ben, do you have a revised version of you bill you want us to vote on (it seemed like everybody agreed that they weren't too happy with the original).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 06, 2010, 06:56:39 PM
The Return of Rhetoric Bill
Article I: Debate and speech shall be a mandatory part of the English curriculum for Mideastern students grades 9-12.
Article II: All schools that cannot afford to pay for materials in debate and speech shall receive a subsidy from the Mideastern Government.
Article III: These subsidies shall be paid for by an gasoline tax increase of 2%.
Article IV: This bill shall go into effect for the 2010-2011 school year.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 06, 2010, 07:47:36 PM
what materials for debate in poor schools will cause a 2% gas tax increase?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 06, 2010, 07:49:08 PM
what materials for debate in poor schools will cause a 2% gas tax increase?

Text books, resources, things like that.  If we can do it with less than 2%, let's amend it; I just needed to put a number in there.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 07, 2010, 01:32:04 AM
Here is an estimate of the gasoline tax: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=101096.msg2437063#msg2437063

It is very difficult for me to estimate the impact of invasive species. The gasoline thing was slightly more reasonable to calculate and adjust.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on April 07, 2010, 03:58:39 AM
Schools have already means to pay for their materials. There arent' scholls so poor that they can't buy some additional materials, come on.

Debate and speech are first and foremost a personal skill, tought by... human beings and practised by other human beings.

Articles II and III should be dropped.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 07, 2010, 09:29:56 AM
Schools have already means to pay for their materials. There arent' scholls so poor that they can't buy some additional materials, come on.

Debate and speech are first and foremost a personal skill, tought by... human beings and practised by other human beings.

Articles II and III should be dropped.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on April 07, 2010, 01:06:19 PM
Schools have already means to pay for their materials. There arent' scholls so poor that they can't buy some additional materials, come on.

Don't you believe it. In RL there are schools in the Chicago area so financially strapped they've cut the school week to 4 days (with no increase in the school day's length). To their tremendous credit, groups of students still come to school for the closed weekday to participate in volunteer study groups and tutoring sessions. But such laudable individual initiative doesn't make it any less a crime to deprive children in the wealthiest country on earth such basic educational needs.

That said, my biggest problem with this proposal is, as written, it apparently mandates speech class as part of the curriculum for every single year between grades 9-12. IMHO, assuming there is no opposing consensus among educators that such a requirement would unacceptably reduce necessary time teaching fundamentals like math, English, history, etc., requiring a single grading quarter/report period of speech/forensics class between 9th grade and graduation may be a decent idea. It also may be a good idea to allow dispensation for anyone with a medically certified barrier such as severe speech impediments, etc.

Finally, while such education obviously isn't free, the GM's numbers indicate a 2% gas tax is far in excess of what is necessary to properly fund this proposal.

With a bit of tinkering on these points, this could be a worthwhile proposal deserving of this body's support. Just my two cents as a Mideast citizen....


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 07, 2010, 02:22:35 PM
I'm not sure where I stand on the tax increase.  On the one hand, I'd say schools are strapped for cash.  On the other hand, when we did our segment on debate in my English class, we didn't use a textbook for it.  I really don't see the need for a textbook for the debate part of the curriculum, unless Ben you have evidence that would show otherwise?

Badger, it would be part of the English curriculum, not a course of its  own.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 07, 2010, 02:35:14 PM
I'm not sure where I stand on the tax increase.  On the one hand, I'd say schools are strapped for cash.  On the other hand, when we did our segment on debate in my English class, we didn't use a textbook for it.  I really don't see the need for a textbook for the debate part of the curriculum, unless Ben you have evidence that would show otherwise?

There are books available; my school used one written by two former coaches; there's also the need for research, most of which costs money.  This would help the schools that choose to actually field teams, rather than just teach it as a unit in a class.  I'm willing to remove Sections 2 and 3, if they are preventing passage of the bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 07, 2010, 02:38:20 PM
There are books available; my school used one written by two former coaches; there's also the need for research, most of which costs money.  This would help the schools that choose to actually field teams, rather than just teach it as a unit in a class.  I'm willing to remove Sections 2 and 3, if they are preventing passage of the bill.

Books being available, and books being a necessity are two different things.  There are a lot of things available for public educators that I would deem excessive to what is necessary.  I think Sections 2 and 3 need to go.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 07, 2010, 02:39:06 PM
Okay then.  I'll motion to strike sections 2 and 3.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 07, 2010, 03:17:43 PM
Okay then.  I'll motion to strike sections 2 and 3.

Unless there is an objection, sections 2 and 3 will be stricken.  Are there any objections?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on April 07, 2010, 06:30:30 PM
Just so you'll keep it in mind for possible legislation, later:

Please don't think that all schools are adequately funded. Many are struggling to afford new textbooks, or to simply offer extracurricular activities. One certain department that has taken large hits is fine arts. For example, band, chorus, and art classes are either being eliminated from schools, or having their funding severely cut.

Anyways, keep it in mind. ;) 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 07, 2010, 07:11:34 PM
Just so you'll keep it in mind for possible legislation, later:

Please don't think that all schools are adequately funded. Many are struggling to afford new textbooks, or to simply offer extracurricular activities. One certain department that has taken large hits is fine arts. For example, band, chorus, and art classes are either being eliminated from schools, or having their funding severely cut.

Anyways, keep it in mind. ;) 

Luckily, being in public education myself, I have this in the forefront of my mind.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on April 07, 2010, 08:32:08 PM
Just so you'll keep it in mind for possible legislation, later:

Please don't think that all schools are adequately funded. Many are struggling to afford new textbooks, or to simply offer extracurricular activities. One certain department that has taken large hits is fine arts. For example, band, chorus, and art classes are either being eliminated from schools, or having their funding severely cut.

Anyways, keep it in mind. ;) 

Luckily, being in public education myself, I have this in the forefront of my mind.

Good to hear. :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 08, 2010, 12:40:09 AM
Hearing no objection, the bill now reads as follows:

Quote
The Return of Rhetoric Bill
Article I: Debate and speech shall be a mandatory part of the English curriculum for Mideastern students grades 9-12.
Article II: This bill shall go into effect for the 2010-2011 school year.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 08, 2010, 12:43:38 AM
Aww, all that nifty math for nothing? :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on April 08, 2010, 04:20:48 AM
Aww, all that nifty math for nothing? :P

Don't lose your time on small bills.
Some big bills were "discussed" and voted in the previous session... but...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 08, 2010, 03:30:11 PM
Aww, all that nifty math for nothing? :P

I'd have liked to keep it, but passing the bill is more important.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on April 08, 2010, 03:32:52 PM

Perhaps you should introduce a separate bill with the gas tax, and have the money go into a simple education fund? :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 08, 2010, 04:43:55 PM
Perhaps you should introduce a separate bill with the gas tax, and have the money go into a simple education fund? :)

I will, once we deal with HappyWarrior's bill, and my bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 08, 2010, 06:15:03 PM
Voting is now open on the following bill.  This will be a 48 hour vote:

Quote
The Return of Rhetoric Bill
Article I: Debate and speech shall be a mandatory part of the English curriculum for Mideastern students grades 9-12.
Article II: This bill shall go into effect for the 2010-2011 school year.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 08, 2010, 06:30:04 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 08, 2010, 06:39:47 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 08, 2010, 08:40:16 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 08, 2010, 08:54:09 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on April 09, 2010, 01:41:54 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 09, 2010, 01:40:36 PM
On the final vote for The Return of Rhetoric Bill:

The AYEs are 5, and the NAYs are 0.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 11, 2010, 10:33:06 PM
Aww, all that nifty math for nothing? :P

Don't lose your time on small bills.
Some big bills were "discussed" and voted in the previous session... but...

The problem is finding bills I can "score." A good amount of time in this game is spent on social or game reforms that I usually can't assess very effectively. Occasionally we get something that I can extrapolate into an impact assessment, like the Northeast labor relations stuff. But usually this is not the case.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 12, 2010, 11:19:03 AM
HappyWarrior,

Are you ready for this to come to a vote?

Quote
  A RESOLUTION CONCERNING
    INVASIVE SPECIES-NEED FOR A STUDY IN THE Mideast Region
  WHEREAS:  For the purpose of conducting research into the dangers of invasive species in the Mideast Region.
  WHEREAS: Invasive or “alien” species have been proven to have an adverse effect in ecosystems in many cases including deaths of native species and damage to the regional economy
 WHEREAS: Species which are at present problems or may become problems include Snakehead Fish, Grass Carp, Nutria, Imported Fire Ants, Japanese Beetles, and various snakes.
BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast Assembly shall hereby commission a study into the dangers 100 posed by various species which are invasive and alien to the Mideast region.  This study will be to look into which species pose the most danger and what the Mideast Region may do about it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 12, 2010, 02:28:28 PM
Yes Mr. Speaker


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on April 13, 2010, 02:22:14 PM
The Return of Rhetoric Bill
Article I: Debate and speech shall be a mandatory part of the English curriculum for Mideastern students grades 9-12.
Article II: This bill shall go into effect for the 2010-2011 school year.

- Swedish Cheese


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 14, 2010, 12:59:16 AM
The following is now brought to a vote.  This will be a 48 hour vote:

Quote
  A RESOLUTION CONCERNING
    INVASIVE SPECIES-NEED FOR A STUDY IN THE Mideast Region
  WHEREAS:  For the purpose of conducting research into the dangers of invasive species in the Mideast Region.
  WHEREAS: Invasive or “alien” species have been proven to have an adverse effect in ecosystems in many cases including deaths of native species and damage to the regional economy
 WHEREAS: Species which are at present problems or may become problems include Snakehead Fish, Grass Carp, Nutria, Imported Fire Ants, Japanese Beetles, and various snakes.
BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast Assembly shall hereby commission a study into the dangers 100 posed by various species which are invasive and alien to the Mideast region.  This study will be to look into which species pose the most danger and what the Mideast Region may do about it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on April 14, 2010, 05:01:29 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 14, 2010, 08:42:28 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 14, 2010, 02:58:41 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 15, 2010, 05:38:23 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 15, 2010, 06:23:46 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 15, 2010, 06:35:18 PM
I have a bill to introduce, though if anyone would like to make suggestions that would be kind

A RESOLUTION CONCERNING
    ALGAE PROMOTION AS ALTERNATIVE ENERGY Mideast Region
  WHEREAS:  Algae has the capability to replace all use of our dependence on foreign oil using only up to 1% of all farm land in atlasia
 WHEREAS: Algae can be used effectively as ethanol and can be harvested in one day
 WHEREAS: One acre of algae can produce the equivelant of up to 10,000 gallons of oil a year
 WHEREAS: Algae farming is expensive and some estimates show $32,000 needed to build one acre farm and $12,000 a year maintance
BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast Assembly shall hereby grant a $5,000 tax credit for any farmer building two acres of algae farm for the next fiscal year. The $5,000 tax credit will be offset by a decrease in foreign energy imports. A 1% tax will be placed on the sale of one gallon of algae oil (ethanol).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 15, 2010, 07:27:40 PM
I don't know if the government would be able to afford any sort of tax credit at present time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 15, 2010, 09:03:38 PM
Purple State, could we get a score from the GM's office on this?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 15, 2010, 09:26:15 PM
I don't know if the government would be able to afford any sort of tax credit at present time.

but consider the mideast moving toward 100% energy independent region. we'd eventually be exporting energy instead of importing it from the Persian Gulf and Canada


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 15, 2010, 09:46:03 PM

A score...on algae farms? I'll see what I can do. ;)

EDIT: Is that $5,000 for every 2 acres? Or just for the first 2 acres?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on April 16, 2010, 03:41:35 AM
I didn't know algae could be used so effectivly as a means to create fuel. This is something I'll definatley have to find out more about.

If Algea could indeed be used to create ethanol that could replace traditional oil, that would be an replacement that would pay off eventually, not just from an economic perspective, but from an enviormental perspective as well.

It is of course a problem that our budget is very tight right now, so I would suggest a potential cut in some other area to go with this. Personally I might suggest taking funding from farm subsides.

Purple State, could you possibly calculate how much the Region gives in farm subsides, and how much of it could possibly be cut, when you're on it?   



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on April 16, 2010, 04:33:35 AM
Due to works in my house (and myself in holiday at home, so not able to connect from my workplace), I won't be able to connect to Atlasia for one week.
I'm deeply sorry.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 16, 2010, 03:02:12 PM
I didn't know algae could be used so effectivly as a means to create fuel. This is something I'll definatley have to find out more about.

If Algea could indeed be used to create ethanol that could replace traditional oil, that would be an replacement that would pay off eventually, not just from an economic perspective, but from an enviormental perspective as well.

It is of course a problem that our budget is very tight right now, so I would suggest a potential cut in some other area to go with this. Personally I might suggest taking funding from farm subsides.

Purple State, could you possibly calculate how much the Region gives in farm subsides, and how much of it could possibly be cut, when you're on it?

I'll work on that in my analysis.

Just to give you a general idea of what the biggest industries are in the region, you can take a look at the most recent employment numbers:

Regional News

Employment & Population Information by Region
The following lists the top three industries in each region in order:
Northeast = Service; Trade and Transportation; Government
Mideast =Manufacturing; Trade and Transportation; Government
Southeast = Manufacturing; Trade and Transportation; Agriculture
Midwest = Manufacturing; Agriculture; Health
Pacific = Government; Trade and Transportation; Education

Agriculture isn't huge, so the impact of the bill, as well as the amount of farm subsidies will not likely be very large in the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 16, 2010, 05:00:07 PM

A score...on algae farms? I'll see what I can do. ;)

EDIT: Is that $5,000 for every 2 acres? Or just for the first 2 acres?
5,000 for the first 2 acres NOT every 2 acres


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 16, 2010, 05:02:09 PM
I didn't know algae could be used so effectivly as a means to create fuel. This is something I'll definatley have to find out more about.

If Algea could indeed be used to create ethanol that could replace traditional oil, that would be an replacement that would pay off eventually, not just from an economic perspective, but from an enviormental perspective as well.

It is of course a problem that our budget is very tight right now, so I would suggest a potential cut in some other area to go with this. Personally I might suggest taking funding from farm subsides.

Purple State, could you possibly calculate how much the Region gives in farm subsides, and how much of it could possibly be cut, when you're on it?   



How about cuts in ethanol subsidies to pay for algae? Corn Ethanol at its full potential, using all farmland in the US, wouldn't even replace 20% of our dependence on oil. Algae is a great breakthrough in the future, yet expensive which is why we should be focused in investing our money there instead of in corn or soy ethanol which can't even come close to the production of algae   


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on April 16, 2010, 05:03:55 PM
I didn't know algae could be used so effectivly as a means to create fuel. This is something I'll definatley have to find out more about.

If Algea could indeed be used to create ethanol that could replace traditional oil, that would be an replacement that would pay off eventually, not just from an economic perspective, but from an enviormental perspective as well.

It is of course a problem that our budget is very tight right now, so I would suggest a potential cut in some other area to go with this. Personally I might suggest taking funding from farm subsides.

Purple State, could you possibly calculate how much the Region gives in farm subsides, and how much of it could possibly be cut, when you're on it?   



How about cuts in ethanol subsidies to pay for algae? Corn Ethanol at its full potential, using all farmland in the US, wouldn't even replace 20% of our dependence on oil. Algae is a great breakthrough in the future, yet expensive which is why we should be focused in investing our money there instead of in corn or soy ethanol which can't even come close to the production of algae   

Sounds like a pretty good idea to me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 16, 2010, 06:11:46 PM

A score...on algae farms? I'll see what I can do. ;)

EDIT: Is that $5,000 for every 2 acres? Or just for the first 2 acres?
5,000 for the first 2 acres NOT every 2 acres

Alright, I'll aim for Sunday for a report on this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 16, 2010, 08:59:37 PM

A score...on algae farms? I'll see what I can do. ;)

EDIT: Is that $5,000 for every 2 acres? Or just for the first 2 acres?
5,000 for the first 2 acres NOT every 2 acres

Alright, I'll aim for Sunday for a report on this.

Thanks. I believe that while our agricultural industry may not be the largest, we have the opportunity to lead Atlasia on a path to not just energy independence, but alternative energy indepdnence that is realistic and not just promises


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 17, 2010, 07:24:29 PM
On the final vote for A RESOLUTION CONCERNING INVASIVE SPECIES-NEED FOR A STUDY IN THE Mideast Region:

The AYEs are 5, and the NAYs are 0.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 18, 2010, 03:50:46 PM
The Infrastructure Renovation Act
1.  The Mideast government shall undertake an extensive survey of all existing Mideast infrastructure, determining the condition of all existing infrastructure.  The report shall determine if any infrastructure is in need of renovation, and shall specify exactly what renovation is necessary.
2.  Following the completion of this report, the Mideast shall appropriate whatever funds are necessary to complete all the required renovations specified in the report.  The renovations shall begin as soon as possible following the completion of the report.
3.  The funding for the renovations shall come from increases on the gas, sales, and property taxes in the Mideast ranging from 1-3% each depending on the required funding for renovations.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on April 19, 2010, 05:08:41 AM
The Infrastructure Renovation Act
1.  The Mideast government shall undertake an extensive survey of all existing Mideast infrastructure, determining the condition of all existing infrastructure.  The report shall determine if any infrastructure is in need of renovation, and shall specify exactly what renovation is necessary.
2.  Following the completion of this report, the Mideast shall appropriate whatever funds are necessary to complete all the required renovations specified in the report.  The renovations shall begin as soon as possible following the completion of the report.
3.  The funding for the renovations shall come from increases on the gas, sales, and property taxes in the Mideast ranging from 1-3% each depending on the required funding for renovations.

Considering we recently had the Mideast Infrastructure evaluated and renovated for 9 billion dollars through The Mideast Save the Sinking Ship That Is Our Economy Act, I question the actual need of this. 

I don't think we're in need of another upgrading for quite a while.

The Mideast Save the Sinking Ship That Is Our Economy Act

<snip>

Section II: The Assembly proposes that a number of 9 billion dollars be used in programs designed to extend and repair the region's infrastructure, such as building new roads, bridges, tunnels and railroad, increasing and promoting train activity, and renovate decayed roads.

<snip>



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 19, 2010, 02:33:26 PM
Based on the recent infrastructure collapse in West Virginia, and the repeated warnings from the GM, I'd say it's more than necessary.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 19, 2010, 04:40:12 PM
The Infrastructure Renovation Act
1.  The Mideast government shall undertake an extensive survey of all existing Mideast infrastructure, determining the condition of all existing infrastructure.  The report shall determine if any infrastructure is in need of renovation, and shall specify exactly what renovation is necessary.
2.  Following the completion of this report, the Mideast shall appropriate whatever funds are necessary to complete all the required renovations specified in the report.  The renovations shall begin as soon as possible following the completion of the report.
3.  The funding for the renovations shall come from increases on the gas, sales, and property taxes in the Mideast ranging from 1-3% each depending on the required funding for renovations.

Considering we recently had the Mideast Infrastructure evaluated and renovated for 9 billion dollars through The Mideast Save the Sinking Ship That Is Our Economy Act, I question the actual need of this. 

I don't think we're in need of another upgrading for quite a while.

The Mideast Save the Sinking Ship That Is Our Economy Act

<snip>

Section II: The Assembly proposes that a number of 9 billion dollars be used in programs designed to extend and repair the region's infrastructure, such as building new roads, bridges, tunnels and railroad, increasing and promoting train activity, and renovate decayed roads.

<snip>


That was useful for spurring job growth, but it did not adequately handle the infrastructural needs of the region. It ended up used for mostly shovel-ready projects, such as potholes and highway repairs, while the larger scale projects were not really included.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 19, 2010, 09:49:56 PM
Due to the cost estimates and low impact of the algae bill...would you all be interested and creating more subsides or tax credits to get these farms started as we move to the first energy independent region in Atlasia?

I'm thinking we can cut ethanol subsides to help pay for the costs? Any other ideas to help pay for creater tax credits for a larger impact on the industry to get this energy industry moving?

If nothing else I think we should invest in technology to be able to harness all the power algae can create which would lower costs if the every day Atlasian can actually fill up a algae ethanol or diseal gas tank in their car


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 19, 2010, 10:47:07 PM
Due to the cost estimates and low impact of the algae bill...would you all be interested and creating more subsides or tax credits to get these farms started as we move to the first energy independent region in Atlasia?

I'm thinking we can cut ethanol subsides to help pay for the costs? Any other ideas to help pay for creater tax credits for a larger impact on the industry to get this energy industry moving?

If nothing else I think we should invest in technology to be able to harness all the power algae can create which would lower costs if the every day Atlasian can actually fill up a algae ethanol or diseal gas tank in their car

It's not just greater subsidies, but also gradually increasing subsidies. Someone that makes a 500 acre farm shouldn't necessarily get the same subsidy as someone who makes a 1,000 acre farm. Unless you prefer somewhat smaller farms, but that is the Assembly's choice.

The bill can be effective as long as it gets the subsidy right. That's the trickiest part.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 19, 2010, 11:22:14 PM
Due to the cost estimates and low impact of the algae bill...would you all be interested and creating more subsides or tax credits to get these farms started as we move to the first energy independent region in Atlasia?

I'm thinking we can cut ethanol subsides to help pay for the costs? Any other ideas to help pay for creater tax credits for a larger impact on the industry to get this energy industry moving?

If nothing else I think we should invest in technology to be able to harness all the power algae can create which would lower costs if the every day Atlasian can actually fill up a algae ethanol or diseal gas tank in their car

It's not just greater subsidies, but also gradually increasing subsidies. Someone that makes a 500 acre farm shouldn't necessarily get the same subsidy as someone who makes a 1,000 acre farm. Unless you prefer somewhat smaller farms, but that is the Assembly's choice.

The bill can be effective as long as it gets the subsidy right. That's the trickiest part.

yeah. I was thinking for of 1,000 per acre credit up to 500 acres? plus research to be able to effectivly use algae which would bring down costs and we would eventaully not to to invest so much in teh industry


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on April 20, 2010, 07:27:24 PM
$5k tax credit for 2 acres of algae??

Some citation on the science involved here might help.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 20, 2010, 08:41:51 PM
$5k tax credit for 2 acres of algae??

Some citation on the science involved here might help.

Yea I tink at that rate we'd be paying them taxes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on April 20, 2010, 08:55:38 PM
$5k tax credit for 2 acres of algae??

Some citation on the science involved here might help.

Yea I tink at that rate we'd be paying them taxes.

It actually costs about $32,000 for one acre of the stuff just for installation.

Data on this is relatively sparse, but there are some citations for cost around. Check my report for some info and the internet for the rest (ya'll can do your own research :P).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 20, 2010, 09:32:08 PM
$5k tax credit for 2 acres of algae??

Some citation on the science involved here might help.

Yea I tink at that rate we'd be paying them taxes.

I'm getting algae into our energy talks. Gas prices for the region are on the rise and fossil fuels are going to run out, algae can produce a lot of diseal and ethanol so let's start the research and innovation to use algae to power our region


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 20, 2010, 09:45:28 PM
$5k tax credit for 2 acres of algae??

Some citation on the science involved here might help.

Yea I tink at that rate we'd be paying them taxes.

I'm getting algae into our energy talks. Gas prices for the region are on the rise and fossil fuels are going to run out, algae can produce a lot of diseal and ethanol so let's start the research and innovation to use algae to power our region

I just don't think thatthis is the best or most cost effective method.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on April 21, 2010, 11:41:29 AM
$5k tax credit for 2 acres of algae??

Some citation on the science involved here might help.

Yea I tink at that rate we'd be paying them taxes.

It actually costs about $32,000 for one acre of the stuff just for installation.

Data on this is relatively sparse, but there are some citations for cost around. Check my report for some info and the internet for the rest (ya'll can do your own research :P).

Oh I appriciate your report, Mr. GM. I was instead hinting Assemblyman A-Bob may want to provide some documentation re: the energy production potential of algae farms.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 21, 2010, 04:17:26 PM
$5k tax credit for 2 acres of algae??

Some citation on the science involved here might help.

Yea I tink at that rate we'd be paying them taxes.

It actually costs about $32,000 for one acre of the stuff just for installation.

Data on this is relatively sparse, but there are some citations for cost around. Check my report for some info and the internet for the rest (ya'll can do your own research :P).

Oh I appriciate your report, Mr. GM. I was instead hinting Assemblyman A-Bob may want to provide some documentation re: the energy production potential of algae farms.
Sure
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/biofuel/4213775
http://www.oilgae.com/
and of course, where I also got cost facts
http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/algaefarms.aspx


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on April 22, 2010, 01:46:32 PM
$5k tax credit for 2 acres of algae??

Some citation on the science involved here might help.

Yea I tink at that rate we'd be paying them taxes.

It actually costs about $32,000 for one acre of the stuff just for installation.

Data on this is relatively sparse, but there are some citations for cost around. Check my report for some info and the internet for the rest (ya'll can do your own research :P).

Oh I appreciate your report, Mr. GM. I was instead hinting Assemblyman A-Bob may want to provide some documentation re: the energy production potential of algae farms.
Sure
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/biofuel/4213775
http://www.oilgae.com/
and of course, where I also got cost facts
http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/algaefarms.aspx

Interesting. I'd heard about the still underutilized potential of switchgrass for producing ethanol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switchgrass#Bioenergy but possible use of algae is new to me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 24, 2010, 02:57:36 PM
Alright - debate has ended for at least 24 hours on this, so the following is now being brought to a vote.  This will be a 48 hour vote:

Quote
A RESOLUTION CONCERNING
    ALGAE PROMOTION AS ALTERNATIVE ENERGY Mideast Region
  WHEREAS:  Algae has the capability to replace all use of our dependence on foreign oil using only up to 1% of all farm land in atlasia
 WHEREAS: Algae can be used effectively as ethanol and can be harvested in one day
 WHEREAS: One acre of algae can produce the equivelant of up to 10,000 gallons of oil a year
 WHEREAS: Algae farming is expensive and some estimates show $32,000 needed to build one acre farm and $12,000 a year maintance
BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast Assembly shall hereby grant a $5,000 tax credit for any farmer building two acres of algae farm for the next fiscal year. The $5,000 tax credit will be offset by a decrease in foreign energy imports. A 1% tax will be placed on the sale of one gallon of algae oil (ethanol).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 24, 2010, 03:04:24 PM
NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 24, 2010, 04:23:46 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 25, 2010, 12:17:45 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on April 26, 2010, 02:57:34 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 26, 2010, 10:25:04 AM
NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 26, 2010, 12:19:44 PM
I implore the Governor to veto this bill.  I feel that it is increadibly fiscally unsound and there is no guarantee that it would in fact work.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on April 26, 2010, 02:10:36 PM
A-Bob this version of the bill is as have been pointed out not very fiscally responsible, in that it lacks proper details on how this thing will be funded. Although I'm convinced this would eventually lead to economic gains for our region, for example by exporting algae fuel and a decrease (or even better elimination) of importation of foregin oil.

We do still however need to keep in mind our current budget, which is as it is now a bit unbalanced. To add another unfunded tax credit would not be wise. I'd like to see a modified version of this bill that clearly states how this would be funded. That's a bill I'd be happy to sign. This bill has a good base, but lacks a little in excicution. Would you be willing to agree to this compromise?

HW, although I obviously agree with you on this bill currently lacks fiscal soundness, I still think this is a good idea with a few small modifications. It's true that scientific reaserch IRL might not be quite there yet, but this is Atlasia, and the extra funding we gave to enviorment-friendly science a while ago might have resulted in a scientific report that supports the that the use of algae to create ethanol does indeed work perfectly well. (Besides, when you know the GM, everything is possible ;)) I think it's important that we don't loose this oppertunity for a bi-partisan act that will help our economic and enviormental future.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 26, 2010, 03:05:52 PM
On the final vote for A RESOLUTION CONCERNING ALGAE PROMOTION AS ALTERNATIVE ENERGY:

The AYEs are 3, and the NAYs are 2.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 26, 2010, 03:36:29 PM
Next on the plate, we have this bill from Ben, and I also had drafted a bill (but hadn't posted it yet).  We'll debte both at the same time, and we may want to merge the two or combine parts of them:

The Infrastructure Renovation Act
1.  The Mideast government shall undertake an extensive survey of all existing Mideast infrastructure, determining the condition of all existing infrastructure.  The report shall determine if any infrastructure is in need of renovation, and shall specify exactly what renovation is necessary.
2.  Following the completion of this report, the Mideast shall appropriate whatever funds are necessary to complete all the required renovations specified in the report.  The renovations shall begin as soon as possible following the completion of the report.
3.  The funding for the renovations shall come from increases on the gas, sales, and property taxes in the Mideast ranging from 1-3% each depending on the required funding for renovations.

Quote
Budgeting for Road and Infrastructure Development and General Enhancement (BRIDGE) Act

1.  5 billion dollars shall be allocated for the building of toll booths in Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri, Wisconsin, and Virginia along Interstate Highways.  The specific design and locations for the toll booths shall be left up to the individual states, each of which will be given 1 billion dollars for construction of the toll booths.  Any new toll systems created should be compatible with the EZ Pass system already in place in other states.
2.  An additional 20 billion dollars shall be allocated for the repair of roads, bridges, overpasses, and any other automobile transit systems across the region.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 26, 2010, 04:23:32 PM
A-Bob this version of the bill is as have been pointed out not very fiscally responsible, in that it lacks proper details on how this thing will be funded. Although I'm convinced this would eventually lead to economic gains for our region, for example by exporting algae fuel and a decrease (or even better elimination) of importation of foregin oil.

We do still however need to keep in mind our current budget, which is as it is now a bit unbalanced. To add another unfunded tax credit would not be wise. I'd like to see a modified version of this bill that clearly states how this would be funded. That's a bill I'd be happy to sign. This bill has a good base, but lacks a little in excicution. Would you be willing to agree to this compromise?

HW, although I obviously agree with you on this bill currently lacks fiscal soundness, I still think this is a good idea with a few small modifications. It's true that scientific reaserch IRL might not be quite there yet, but this is Atlasia, and the extra funding we gave to enviorment-friendly science a while ago might have resulted in a scientific report that supports the that the use of algae to create ethanol does indeed work perfectly well. (Besides, when you know the GM, everything is possible ;)) I think it's important that we don't loose this oppertunity for a bi-partisan act that will help our economic and enviormental future.

Does the Governor have specific recommendations as The Governor pretty much does have final say on the bill via veto


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 27, 2010, 05:35:35 PM
bump - Governor, you either need to sign/veto or it'll go into law anyway.

Assemblymen - input on the 2 infrastructure bills?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on April 27, 2010, 05:53:45 PM
Inks I'm intending to make my decission as how to handle this once I know if there will be a bill amending this to clearify how we will fund the project. I still have a few days before it goes into law without my signature.

A-Bob, I believe a cut in other farm subsides would be the most sensible cut to make. A small raise in taxes on tobaccoo products wouldn't be something I'd object to either.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 27, 2010, 08:20:14 PM
Inks, would I be able add amendments the already passed bill or should I just compelty start over with this?

Governor, I wouldn't mind an increased tax on tobaccoo products as well as cuts in other ethanol (with products that cannot come close to matching algae's production) subsides we are currently funding


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 27, 2010, 11:55:20 PM
You have 2 options:

1. The Governor vetoes the bill, and we pass an amended bill that he signs.
2. The Governor signs the bill, and we pass a new law that amends the original law.

But we cannot change the law until some form of action from the Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on April 28, 2010, 03:24:46 AM
If you draft a bill amending this one, I'll sign the other one into law, so that you'll be able to pass that one.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on April 28, 2010, 07:45:14 AM
If you draft a bill amending this one, I'll sign the other one into law, so that you'll be able to pass that one.



Wouldn't option #1 proposed by Inks be more efficient?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 28, 2010, 11:47:16 AM
This is the amendment I would currently attach

Amendment on ALGAE PROMOTION AS ALTERNATIVE ENERGY
WHEREAS: The original bill lacks specific funding, the following taxes are proposed to pay for the tax credit
BE IT RESOLVED: A 11% Marijuana tax (since it is legal) and a raise tax on all tobacco products by 2%
WHEREAS: The original bill lacks specific funding, the following cuts will be made in the budget of the next fiscal year.
BE IT RESOLVED: Eliminate all corn, soy and other food ethanol subsidies.
WHEREAS: The price of a gallon of algae is at $33, $12,000 a year is needed to maintain and algae farm and the cost of one acre of algae farm is $32,000 and those costs will go down with breakthroughs in innovation and technology to better use algae energy
BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast will give 2% business tax credit to any company or organization researching algae efficiency and a 10% business tax credit to any company or organization that finds a break through algae energy, determined by a task force headed by the Governor.
WHEREAS: Hundreds of acres are needed to build one algae farm
BE IT RESOLVED: A $1,000 tax credit per acre will be given to any farmer, business or organization creating between fifty and one hundred acres of algae.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 28, 2010, 11:49:57 AM
I like The Infrastructure Renovation Act more

Would it be possible to create a very large and well built high way from Virginia to the Midwest that could be tolled. If it was large enough and built well enough, many Mideast citizens would use it and the highway could pay for itself.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on April 28, 2010, 01:13:53 PM
This is the amendment I would currently attach

Amendment on ALGAE PROMOTION AS ALTERNATIVE ENERGY
WHEREAS: The original bill lacks specific funding, the following taxes are proposed to pay for the tax credit
BE IT RESOLVED: A 11% Marijuana tax (since it is legal) and a raise tax on all tobacco products by 2%
WHEREAS: The original bill lacks specific funding, the following cuts will be made in the budget of the next fiscal year.
BE IT RESOLVED: Eliminate all corn, soy and other food ethanol subsidies.
WHEREAS: The price of a gallon of algae is at $33, $12,000 a year is needed to maintain and algae farm and the cost of one acre of algae farm is $32,000 and those costs will go down with breakthroughs in innovation and technology to better use algae energy
BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast will give 2% business tax credit to any company or organization researching algae efficiency and a 10% business tax credit to any company or organization that finds a break through algae energy, determined by a task force headed by the Governor.
WHEREAS: Hundreds of acres are needed to build one algae farm
BE IT RESOLVED: A $1,000 tax credit per acre will be given to any farmer, business or organization creating between fifty and one hundred acres of algae.


While there may be an argument against corn and soy ethanol subsidies as sources such as switchgrass (and apparently maybe algae) are far more efficient, may I nitpick suggest that such subsidies be phased out over several years rather than done away with at once? The infrastructure for the refining process needs time to convert, alternate crop sources for ethanol need time to be produced in sufficient amount to replace corn and soy, and farmers and the regional agricultural economy will need time to adjust as well.

Otherwise I fear the result may be a shortage of both new and traditional ethanol sources, insufficient refining capacity to exacerbate the fuel shortage, plus many farm failures resulting from the immediate termination of ethanol subsidies (many are currently stretched for sufficient operating capital, let alone to immediately invest in retooling their fields and equipment in a single season).

On a similar note, check some of the attached links:

http://www.bcic.ca/images/stories/publications/lifesciences/microalgae_report.pdf

http://www.carbontrust.co.uk/pages/searchresults.aspx?q=Algae+biofuels+challenge&pn=0&ps=10
(particularly the 3rd and 4th articles "Green Oil...." and "Biofuels Case Study...")

The gist of these articles indicate that, while algae has the potential of eventually being a cleaner, cheaper and more efficient fuel than traditional ethanol, currently it's current high production costs keep it at the R&D stage for now rather than an immediately viable alternative energy source.

Accordingly, maybe a better alternative for now would be to fund R&D for algae bioenergy studies and experiments rather than subsidize mass production. Switchgrass actually seems to be closer to a viable alternative, but that also may still need additional R&D before reaching economic viability (even with short-medium term govenment subsidies).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 28, 2010, 01:41:24 PM
I agree with Badger - simply cutting off subsidies like that would be detrimental to some farmers.

And if we want people to begin using algae as alternative energy, why not increase taxes on some other energy form (I don't care what - A-bob, it's your bill, you can do what you want) instead of raising taxes on marijuana and tobacco which are completely unrelated to this issue?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 28, 2010, 02:24:43 PM
Would everyone then at the assembly be okay with R&D on algae until we get a breakthrough from the game moderator?

If so then I'll go to draft a different amendment


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 28, 2010, 02:29:42 PM
Amendment on ALGAE PROMOTION AS ALTERNATIVE ENERGY
BE IT RESOLVED: That the contents of ALGAE PROMOTION AS ALTERNATIVE ENERGY will be repealed from the bill and replaced with the following
WHEREAS: The price of a gallon of algae is at $33, $5,000 (edit from original bill) a year is needed to maintain and algae farm and the cost of one acre of algae farm is $32,000 and those costs will go down with breakthroughs in innovation and technology to better use algae energy
BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast will give 5% business tax credit to any company or organization researching algae efficiency and a 15%-20% business tax credit to any company or organization that finds a break through algae energy, determined by a task force headed by the Governor.  This tax credit will be paid for with a 2% increase in all tobacco products and 1cent increase in the gas tax.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on April 28, 2010, 02:34:42 PM
You can't amend it until the Governor signs or vetoes it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 28, 2010, 04:33:24 PM
Would everyone then at the assembly be okay with R&D on algae until we get a breakthrough from the game moderator?

If so then I'll go to draft a different amendment

What's R&D?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on April 28, 2010, 04:39:36 PM

Research and development, I assume.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 28, 2010, 05:46:59 PM


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on April 29, 2010, 06:24:47 AM
Quote
instead of raising taxes on marijuana and tobacco which are completely unrelated to this issue?

It's not completely unrealated, as a decrease of tobaccoo and maruijuana sells would encourage farmers to turn their cannabis and tobaccoo fields into algae fields instead. And that was my reasoning behind it when proposing it.



 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 29, 2010, 12:34:12 PM
Quote
instead of raising taxes on marijuana and tobacco which are completely unrelated to this issue?

It's not completely unrealated, as a decrease of tobaccoo and maruijuana sells would encourage farmers to turn their cannabis and tobaccoo fields into algae fields instead. And that was my reasoning behind it when proposing it.
 

OK, that's fair.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 29, 2010, 04:14:38 PM
Quote
instead of raising taxes on marijuana and tobacco which are completely unrelated to this issue?

It's not completely unrealated, as a decrease of tobaccoo and maruijuana sells would encourage farmers to turn their cannabis and tobaccoo fields into algae fields instead. And that was my reasoning behind it when proposing it.
 

OK, that's fair.

How about 2% increase in tobacco and  6% tax on marijuana instead of a one cent gas tax. Then we'll even have additional resources for testing on algae


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 29, 2010, 05:35:18 PM
Quote
instead of raising taxes on marijuana and tobacco which are completely unrelated to this issue?

It's not completely unrealated, as a decrease of tobaccoo and maruijuana sells would encourage farmers to turn their cannabis and tobaccoo fields into algae fields instead. And that was my reasoning behind it when proposing it.
 

OK, that's fair.

How about 2% increase in tobacco and  6% tax on marijuana instead of a one cent gas tax. Then we'll even have additional resources for testing on algae

I'm fine with that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 29, 2010, 06:56:28 PM
Here's the final amendment I'm putting on the bill

Amendment on ALGAE PROMOTION AS ALTERNATIVE ENERGY
BE IT RESOLVED: That the contents of ALGAE PROMOTION AS ALTERNATIVE ENERGY will be repealed from the bill and replaced with the following
WHEREAS: The price of a gallon of algae is at $33, $5,000 (edit from original bill) a year is needed to maintain and algae farm and the cost of one acre of algae farm is $32,000 and those costs will go down with breakthroughs in innovation and technology to better use algae energy
BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast will give 5% business tax credit to any company or organization researching algae efficiency and a 15%-20% business tax credit to any company or organization that finds a break through algae energy, determined by a task force headed by the Governor.  This tax credit will be paid for with a 2% increase in all tobacco products, and a 6% tax on marijuana.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 01, 2010, 11:47:29 AM
Voting is now open on the following bill.  This will be a 48 hour vote:

Quote
Amendment on ALGAE PROMOTION AS ALTERNATIVE ENERGY
BE IT RESOLVED: That the contents of ALGAE PROMOTION AS ALTERNATIVE ENERGY will be repealed from the bill and replaced with the following
WHEREAS: The price of a gallon of algae is at $33, $5,000 (edit from original bill) a year is needed to maintain and algae farm and the cost of one acre of algae farm is $32,000 and those costs will go down with breakthroughs in innovation and technology to better use algae energy
BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast will give 5% business tax credit to any company or organization researching algae efficiency and a 15%-20% business tax credit to any company or organization that finds a break through algae energy, determined by a task force headed by the Governor.  This tax credit will be paid for with a 2% increase in all tobacco products, and a 6% tax on marijuana.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 01, 2010, 12:26:46 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 01, 2010, 12:27:05 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 01, 2010, 01:43:39 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 01, 2010, 05:30:05 PM
Can I present another bill even though we are not done voting on this current amendment?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 01, 2010, 06:27:28 PM
Can I present another bill even though we are not done voting on this current amendment?

I believe my infrastructure bill is next on the docket.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 01, 2010, 06:30:20 PM
Can I present another bill even though we are not done voting on this current amendment?

I believe my infrastructure bill is next on the docket.

yeah, I was just wondering if I can introduce it now. Infrastructure should be addressed first anyways.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 01, 2010, 08:55:11 PM
Of course, go ahead :)  I just wanted to make sure my bill didn't get lost.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 01, 2010, 09:13:59 PM
Ideas welcome for editing the bill

GI JANE
Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy.
WHEREAS: Unemployment is at 12.1% in the Mideast with over 7 million citizen unemployed and
WHEREAS: Most citizens are employed in small businesses and consumer confidence is down
BE IT RESOLVED:
SECTION 1:
1.   Any business that creates 1 new job in the current fiscal year will be given a $5,000 corporate tax credit.
2.   There shall be no waiting period for a business or company to start after government forms are approved.
3.   Drop the corporate tax rate to 10%, the lowest internationally. The loss of corporate tax revenue gained by the Mideast will be made up with the creation of new jobs and decrease of unemployment benefits.
4.   Cut capital gains tax by 20% for incomes over $500,000 and 40% for incomes under $500,000.
5.   Welfare program requires 40 hours a week of, or a combination of education to receive a GED, job training, work or community service for those that are deemed “fit to work” by the Mideast Government. Every welfare recipient deemed “able to work” must find work within two years of being enrolled in a Mideast welfare program or four years if the recipient is attending education at any level.
6.   Cut income tax to 6% for those making less than $12,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 11% for those making between $12,000-$35,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 17% for those making between $35,000-$80,000. Cut the income tax to 22% for those making between $80,000-$150,000.
SECTION 2:
7.   Departments and committees of government in the Mideast will eliminate overlapping responsibilities, tasks and programs to save tax-payer funding and to guarantee no business has to file or complete the same form or paperwork more than once. Each department and committee will send one representative to a weekly meeting in which they will decide who will have what specific responsibility that they alone will posses. The “Government Employment Committee” headed by an appointee by the Governor, confirmed by the Assembly will lead these meetings.
8.   A one year hiring freeze will take effect. The Mideast cannot total more workers in the government then that of the passage of this bill. If an employee is fired, a different position is allowed to be created instead of replacing that former employee.
9.   Eliminate all subsides to farms that do not grow crops.
10.   The Mideast government must buy products and materials to complete projects that are the cheapest on the market when the material is non-essential to safety and not needed for efficiency (examples: toilet, paper clips, hammers)
11.   Projects of the Mideast government carried out by private companies must be chosen based on the cheapest, most efficient budget requested.
12.   Halt Mideast government purchase of land for one year.
13.   Eliminate corporate subsidies for corporations that cannot provide a business plan or execute a plan that will bring in a profit within 2 years or a profit enough to pay off the subsidies in 5 years giving the corporation the option time for research, development, innovation and improvement or let a different, profitable, efficient company replace the failing corporation.
14.   All Mideast funds to sanctuary cities, that knowingly hold and protect illegal peoples, shall be kept by the Mideast government or returned to the people of the Mideast.
15.   Eliminate any Mideast government job deemed unnecessary by “Government Employment Committee”.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 01, 2010, 11:53:41 PM
Can I present another bill even though we are not done voting on this current amendment?

I believe my infrastructure bill is next on the docket.

Is there any crossover between the 2 bills that people like?  Do people want to go with mine or Ben's, or a hybrid?  I'll open debate on both bills at the same time - basically anything covered under infrastructure, feel free to discuss it now...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 02, 2010, 09:51:13 AM
Is there any crossover between the 2 bills that people like?  Do people want to go with mine or Ben's, or a hybrid?  I'll open debate on both bills at the same time - basically anything covered under infrastructure, feel free to discuss it now...

I would be perfectly fine with combining the two bills, especially since yours puts funding into place immediately, while mine would delay things for a report to come out.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 02, 2010, 12:28:56 PM
Is there any crossover between the 2 bills that people like?  Do people want to go with mine or Ben's, or a hybrid?  I'll open debate on both bills at the same time - basically anything covered under infrastructure, feel free to discuss it now...

I would be perfectly fine with combining the two bills, especially since yours puts funding into place immediately, while mine would delay things for a report to come out.
^ although I wouldn't want overlapping funds from immedate and delayed funding


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 02, 2010, 12:52:22 PM
In addition, given the latest unemployment numbers posted by the GM, I think it is imperative that we get people to work on these reconstruction projects as soon as possible.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 03, 2010, 02:13:07 AM
Voting is now open on the following bill.  This will be a 48 hour vote:

Quote
Amendment on ALGAE PROMOTION AS ALTERNATIVE ENERGY
BE IT RESOLVED: That the contents of ALGAE PROMOTION AS ALTERNATIVE ENERGY will be repealed from the bill and replaced with the following
WHEREAS: The price of a gallon of algae is at $33, $5,000 (edit from original bill) a year is needed to maintain and algae farm and the cost of one acre of algae farm is $32,000 and those costs will go down with breakthroughs in innovation and technology to better use algae energy
BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast will give 5% business tax credit to any company or organization researching algae efficiency and a 15%-20% business tax credit to any company or organization that finds a break through algae energy, determined by a task force headed by the Governor.  This tax credit will be paid for with a 2% increase in all tobacco products, and a 6% tax on marijuana.

AYE, if it's not too late


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 03, 2010, 12:12:19 PM
Personally all of these tax cuts are bothering me quite a lot considering now we are in a deficit unless I'm wrong.  Our region will be bankrupt within a few months if such tax cuts and incentives continue to pass.  If I am wrong please correct me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 03, 2010, 04:25:56 PM
Personally all of these tax cuts are bothering me quite a lot considering now we are in a deficit unless I'm wrong.  Our region will be bankrupt within a few months if such tax cuts and incentives continue to pass.  If I am wrong please correct me.

very few companies will look into algae R&D and if they find some way to make if much less expensive to grow, the region will gain huge profits in reliable replacement for oil.

Also there was proposed tax increase and creation to pay for the incentives that will be given to an extremely small number of farms and businesses


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 03, 2010, 05:50:51 PM
A RESOLUTION CONCERNING INVASIVE SPECIES-NEED FOR A ERADICATION OF KUDZU

WHEREAS: For the purpose of ridding the Mideast Regin of the invasive species Pueraria
Montana
, common name Kudzu, which is growing more common in the Southeast United States; and,

WHEREAS: Kudzu has been proven to damage crops, with average estimates reaching $500 million dollars annually as well as effects local plants and infrastructure in a given area where it grows out of control.

BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast Region shall encourage the removal and control of Kudzu within the Mideast Region through various methods including but not limited to crown removal, grazing, controlled firing, and fungal herbicide.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 03, 2010, 10:43:32 PM
On the final vote for ALGAE PROMOTION AS ALTERNATIVE ENERGY:

The AYEs are 4, and the NAYs are 0.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.



Now onto the infrastructure bill... How do we like this as a hybrid of the bill:

Quote
The Infrastructure Renovation Act
1.  The Mideast government shall undertake an extensive survey of all existing Mideast infrastructure, determining the condition of all existing infrastructure.  The report shall determine if any infrastructure is in need of renovation, and shall specify exactly what renovation is necessary.
2.  Following the completion of this report, the Mideast shall appropriate whatever funds are necessary to complete all the required renovations specified in the report.  The renovations shall begin as soon as possible following the completion of the report.
3.  The funding for the renovations shall come from increases on the gas, sales, and property taxes in the Mideast ranging from 1-3% each depending on the required funding for renovations.
4.  5 billion dollars shall be allocated for the building of toll booths in Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri, Wisconsin, and Virginia along Interstate Highways.  The specific design and locations for the toll booths shall be left up to the individual states, each of which will be given 1 billion dollars for construction of the toll booths.  Any new toll systems created should be compatible with the EZ Pass system already in place in other states.
5.  An additional 20 billion dollars shall be allocated for the repair of roads, bridges, overpasses, and any other automobile transit systems across the region.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 03, 2010, 10:52:28 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 03, 2010, 10:57:42 PM
Hang on - still in discussion phase (sorry - should've made that clearer), unless we all like it as is, then I'll go ahead and start voting.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 03, 2010, 11:24:26 PM
Is there anything in the budget we can cut, even unrelated yet wasteful, so we don't have to move to toll roads.

Tolling roads decreases transportation use and indirectly, trade and a stronger economy.

If we are to toll roads, I think we should have an extremely efficent and constantly updated highway going east to west that will be attractive and only those that use it pay for it (so it pays for itself) and we can reduce traffic and wear on other roads and highways.

Just a thought


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 04, 2010, 05:22:03 PM
I wanted to put forward a bill scratching and "greening" agricultural subsidies, but I'm too busy in RL.

The bill is good for me like this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 04, 2010, 07:51:14 PM
I'm perfectly happy with the new bill, and hopefully we can pass it soon, not only to get people to work but also to start fixing our infrastructure system.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 04, 2010, 08:08:36 PM
Alright, voting is now open on this bill.  This will be a 48 hour vote.  HappyWarrior, I will accept your vote of AYE as valid:

Quote
The Infrastructure Renovation Act
1.  The Mideast government shall undertake an extensive survey of all existing Mideast infrastructure, determining the condition of all existing infrastructure.  The report shall determine if any infrastructure is in need of renovation, and shall specify exactly what renovation is necessary.
2.  Following the completion of this report, the Mideast shall appropriate whatever funds are necessary to complete all the required renovations specified in the report.  The renovations shall begin as soon as possible following the completion of the report.
3.  The funding for the renovations shall come from increases on the gas, sales, and property taxes in the Mideast ranging from 1-3% each depending on the required funding for renovations.
4.  5 billion dollars shall be allocated for the building of toll booths in Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri, Wisconsin, and Virginia along Interstate Highways.  The specific design and locations for the toll booths shall be left up to the individual states, each of which will be given 1 billion dollars for construction of the toll booths.  Any new toll systems created should be compatible with the EZ Pass system already in place in other states.
5.  An additional 20 billion dollars shall be allocated for the repair of roads, bridges, overpasses, and any other automobile transit systems across the region.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 04, 2010, 08:11:51 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 04, 2010, 08:13:04 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 04, 2010, 09:24:29 PM
AYE

But I do not wish for any more tax increases in any area then necessary as they will hold back our economy, however transportation is one top priority of the government I believe should be fully funded


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 04, 2010, 10:47:38 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 05, 2010, 03:08:55 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 05, 2010, 09:04:27 AM
On the final vote for The Infrastructure Renovation Act:

The AYEs are 5, and the NAYs are 0.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.

Next up for debate is:
Quote
GI JANE
Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy.
WHEREAS: Unemployment is at 12.1% in the Mideast with over 7 million citizen unemployed and
WHEREAS: Most citizens are employed in small businesses and consumer confidence is down
BE IT RESOLVED:
SECTION 1:
1.   Any business that creates 1 new job in the current fiscal year will be given a $5,000 corporate tax credit.
2.   There shall be no waiting period for a business or company to start after government forms are approved.
3.   Drop the corporate tax rate to 10%, the lowest internationally. The loss of corporate tax revenue gained by the Mideast will be made up with the creation of new jobs and decrease of unemployment benefits.
4.   Cut capital gains tax by 20% for incomes over $500,000 and 40% for incomes under $500,000.
5.   Welfare program requires 40 hours a week of, or a combination of education to receive a GED, job training, work or community service for those that are deemed “fit to work” by the Mideast Government. Every welfare recipient deemed “able to work” must find work within two years of being enrolled in a Mideast welfare program or four years if the recipient is attending education at any level.
6.   Cut income tax to 6% for those making less than $12,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 11% for those making between $12,000-$35,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 17% for those making between $35,000-$80,000. Cut the income tax to 22% for those making between $80,000-$150,000.
SECTION 2:
7.   Departments and committees of government in the Mideast will eliminate overlapping responsibilities, tasks and programs to save tax-payer funding and to guarantee no business has to file or complete the same form or paperwork more than once. Each department and committee will send one representative to a weekly meeting in which they will decide who will have what specific responsibility that they alone will posses. The “Government Employment Committee” headed by an appointee by the Governor, confirmed by the Assembly will lead these meetings.
8.   A one year hiring freeze will take effect. The Mideast cannot total more workers in the government then that of the passage of this bill. If an employee is fired, a different position is allowed to be created instead of replacing that former employee.
9.   Eliminate all subsides to farms that do not grow crops.
10.   The Mideast government must buy products and materials to complete projects that are the cheapest on the market when the material is non-essential to safety and not needed for efficiency (examples: toilet, paper clips, hammers)
11.   Projects of the Mideast government carried out by private companies must be chosen based on the cheapest, most efficient budget requested.
12.   Halt Mideast government purchase of land for one year.
13.   Eliminate corporate subsidies for corporations that cannot provide a business plan or execute a plan that will bring in a profit within 2 years or a profit enough to pay off the subsidies in 5 years giving the corporation the option time for research, development, innovation and improvement or let a different, profitable, efficient company replace the failing corporation.
14.   All Mideast funds to sanctuary cities, that knowingly hold and protect illegal peoples, shall be kept by the Mideast government or returned to the people of the Mideast.
15.   Eliminate any Mideast government job deemed unnecessary by “Government Employment Committee”.

After that we have this on the docket:

A RESOLUTION CONCERNING INVASIVE SPECIES-NEED FOR A ERADICATION OF KUDZU


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 05, 2010, 09:13:31 AM
NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 05, 2010, 09:22:08 AM
There's also some Medicaid waste cuts we can put in too....


1. Prescription drugs purchased by the Mideast government must be the cheapest drug on the government Prescription Drugs website that provides for specific needs.
2. The Mideast will not cover the cost of any procedure, operation or prescriptions for an abortion, smoking or drug related illness or cosmetic surgery.


Part of a Health Care Bill I've been working on to cut waste and improve quality


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 05, 2010, 09:25:45 AM
May I ask what you disagree with in the bill?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 05, 2010, 09:37:44 AM

Large tax breaks at this time are simply untenable.  I'd love to lower taxes but its just not something which can be done in such a crisis.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 05, 2010, 11:20:04 AM
Sorry, my fellow Assemblyman A-Bob, it's always easier to comment and criticize than to act.
I'm pretty unactive during this Assembly, contrary to the previous one. But, on your "big" bill, I wanted to be a bit more precise.
Generally speaking, I'm rather on the side on NAY.
But with some changes, I may be gained to the AYE.

GI JANE
Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy.
WHEREAS: Unemployment is at 12.1% in the Mideast with over 7 million citizen unemployed and
WHEREAS: Most citizens are employed in small businesses and consumer confidence is down
BE IT RESOLVED:
SECTION 1:
1.   Any business that creates 1 new job in the current fiscal year will be given a $5,000 corporate tax credit.
This is far too expensive and, of course, many businesses will take this opportunity and won't create more jobs.
I can vote for this only if it would apply to small businesses (less than 10 employees or even less, e.g.), because there, you are sure, they really create a new job.

2.   There shall be no waiting period for a business or company to start after government forms are approved.
It's OK for me.

3.   Drop the corporate tax rate to 10%, the lowest internationally. The loss of corporate tax revenue gained by the Mideast will be made up with the creation of new jobs and decrease of unemployment benefits.
Far too expensive and with no big effect, as taxes aren't at all the main criteria to decide to create a business somewhere and as the drop won't equate many more jobs.
4.   Cut capital gains tax by 20% for incomes over $500,000 and 40% for incomes under $500,000.
We can't afford this either.

5.   Welfare program requires 40 hours a week of, or a combination of education to receive a GED, job training, work or community service for those that are deemed “fit to work” by the Mideast Government. Every welfare recipient deemed “able to work” must find work within two years of being enrolled in a Mideast welfare program or four years if the recipient is attending education at any level.
I'm not sure to have grasped the first part of the first sentence. I may agree.
I'm very favourable to the second sentence.

6.   Cut income tax to 6% for those making less than $12,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 11% for those making between $12,000-$35,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 17% for those making between $35,000-$80,000. Cut the income tax to 22% for those making between $80,000-$150,000.
We can't afford this. And this is always a one-shot weapon and so hard to go back...

SECTION 2:
7.   Departments and committees of government in the Mideast will eliminate overlapping responsibilities, tasks and programs to save tax-payer funding and to guarantee no business has to file or complete the same form or paperwork more than once. Each department and committee will send one representative to a weekly meeting in which they will decide who will have what specific responsibility that they alone will posses. The “Government Employment Committee” headed by an appointee by the Governor, confirmed by the Assembly will lead these meetings.
OK, fine.

8.   A one year hiring freeze will take effect. The Mideast cannot total more workers in the government then that of the passage of this bill. If an employee is fired, a different position is allowed to be created instead of replacing that former employee.
I disagree because of my previous bill which has forbidden government to replace more than 50% of its employees retiring: that's enough for the moment.

9.   Eliminate all subsides to farms that do not grow crops.
I'm not sure to understand: farms which breed cattle or fish, which grow fruits and vegetable can't be helped any longer ? I'd disagree.

10.   The Mideast government must buy products and materials to complete projects that are the cheapest on the market when the material is non-essential to safety and not needed for efficiency (examples: toilet, paper clips, hammers)
OK

11.   Projects of the Mideast government carried out by private companies must be chosen based on the cheapest, most efficient budget requested.
That should be an amendment to my Public Procurement Policy Law, which seems to be enough on the matter to me.

12.   Halt Mideast government purchase of land for one year.
We may be forced to do it for emergency, security, protection of people, of health or of environment reasons. We must be careful on this.

13.   Eliminate corporate subsidies for corporations that cannot provide a business plan or execute a plan that will bring in a profit within 2 years or a profit enough to pay off the subsidies in 5 years giving the corporation the option time for research, development, innovation and improvement or let a different, profitable, efficient company replace the failing corporation.
Some R&D projects requires far longer periods. The idea is good, but we should amend it to make it more realistic.

14.   All Mideast funds to sanctuary cities, that knowingly hold and protect illegal peoples, shall be kept by the Mideast government or returned to the people of the Mideast.
What are those cities ?

15.   Eliminate any Mideast government job deemed unnecessary by “Government Employment Committee”.
OK if it's written "as soon as possible".





Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 05, 2010, 11:24:00 AM
I put forward the
Mideast Abortion III Bill

Unique clause - Clause 1 of Mideast Abortion Statute II is hereby modified to read: "No abortion shall be permitted except in the case of threat of the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest".



As you can see, the words "after the first trimester of pregnancy" are erased in my proposal.
When the bill comes to debate, I'll explain this.

This is probably my last political act in this Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on May 05, 2010, 01:57:12 PM
Sorry, my fellow Assemblyman A-Bob, it's always easier to comment and criticize than to act.
I'm pretty unactive during this Assembly, contrary to the previous one. But, on your "big" bill, I wanted to be a bit more precise.
Generally speaking, I'm rather on the side on NAY.
But with some changes, I may be gained to the AYE.

GI JANE
Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy.
WHEREAS: Unemployment is at 12.1% in the Mideast with over 7 million citizen unemployed and
WHEREAS: Most citizens are employed in small businesses and consumer confidence is down
BE IT RESOLVED:
SECTION 1:
1.   Any business that creates 1 new job in the current fiscal year will be given a $5,000 corporate tax credit.
This is far too expensive and, of course, many businesses will take this opportunity and won't create more jobs.
I can vote for this only if it would apply to small businesses (less than 10 employees or even less, e.g.), because there, you are sure, they really create a new job.

2.   There shall be no waiting period for a business or company to start after government forms are approved.
It's OK for me.

3.   Drop the corporate tax rate to 10%, the lowest internationally. The loss of corporate tax revenue gained by the Mideast will be made up with the creation of new jobs and decrease of unemployment benefits.
Far too expensive and with no big effect, as taxes aren't at all the main criteria to decide to create a business somewhere and as the drop won't equate many more jobs.
4.   Cut capital gains tax by 20% for incomes over $500,000 and 40% for incomes under $500,000.
We can't afford this either.

5.   Welfare program requires 40 hours a week of, or a combination of education to receive a GED, job training, work or community service for those that are deemed “fit to work” by the Mideast Government. Every welfare recipient deemed “able to work” must find work within two years of being enrolled in a Mideast welfare program or four years if the recipient is attending education at any level.
I'm not sure to have grasped the first part of the first sentence. I may agree.
I'm very favourable to the second sentence.

6.   Cut income tax to 6% for those making less than $12,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 11% for those making between $12,000-$35,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 17% for those making between $35,000-$80,000. Cut the income tax to 22% for those making between $80,000-$150,000.
We can't afford this. And this is always a one-shot weapon and so hard to go back...

SECTION 2:
7.   Departments and committees of government in the Mideast will eliminate overlapping responsibilities, tasks and programs to save tax-payer funding and to guarantee no business has to file or complete the same form or paperwork more than once. Each department and committee will send one representative to a weekly meeting in which they will decide who will have what specific responsibility that they alone will posses. The “Government Employment Committee” headed by an appointee by the Governor, confirmed by the Assembly will lead these meetings.
OK, fine.

8.   A one year hiring freeze will take effect. The Mideast cannot total more workers in the government then that of the passage of this bill. If an employee is fired, a different position is allowed to be created instead of replacing that former employee.
I disagree because of my previous bill which has forbidden government to replace more than 50% of its employees retiring: that's enough for the moment.

9.   Eliminate all subsides to farms that do not grow crops.
I'm not sure to understand: farms which breed cattle or fish, which grow fruits and vegetable can't be helped any longer ? I'd disagree.

10.   The Mideast government must buy products and materials to complete projects that are the cheapest on the market when the material is non-essential to safety and not needed for efficiency (examples: toilet, paper clips, hammers)
OK

11.   Projects of the Mideast government carried out by private companies must be chosen based on the cheapest, most efficient budget requested.
That should be an amendment to my Public Procurement Policy Law, which seems to be enough on the matter to me.

12.   Halt Mideast government purchase of land for one year.
We may be forced to do it for emergency, security, protection of people, of health or of environment reasons. We must be careful on this.

13.   Eliminate corporate subsidies for corporations that cannot provide a business plan or execute a plan that will bring in a profit within 2 years or a profit enough to pay off the subsidies in 5 years giving the corporation the option time for research, development, innovation and improvement or let a different, profitable, efficient company replace the failing corporation.
Some R&D projects requires far longer periods. The idea is good, but we should amend it to make it more realistic.

14.   All Mideast funds to sanctuary cities, that knowingly hold and protect illegal peoples, shall be kept by the Mideast government or returned to the people of the Mideast.
What are those cities ?

15.   Eliminate any Mideast government job deemed unnecessary by “Government Employment Committee”.
OK if it's written "as soon as possible".


You invited suggestions, A-Bob (presumably from mere constituents as well)? OK, you asked for it....;)

> All the provisions here involving numbers with tax cuts/credits and the like needs an analysis by the GM before the region acts on this. FWIW, baring contrary figures from the GM's office I tend to agree with Happy & Fab that this is likely much too expensive.

> An all-encompassing bill sometimes is good, but this seems too far reaching and disjointed to be held together in one act. This should be split into at minimum two separate bills: One dealing with the tax cuts/credits, the other dealing with the proposed reforms of the government acquisition/regulatory process. Section 1, Para 5 could also easily be a separate bill, as could the Section 2 provisions regarding farm subsidies and government land purchases. Paragraph 14 is an entirely seperate can of worms too. By trying to cram everything in to a single measure, though, it makes the issues too unwieldy to properly debate, and overwhelms the time and attention of the Assembly and GM by putting this all on the table at one time.

> Fab's comments on parags 9 & 12 are spot on.

> Parag 2 is something of a mystery. When doesn't a business or company start right after "government forms are completed"? What types of situations or laws do you believe are currently in place to prevent this? I smell unintended consequences here.....

> The reasoning behind Para 12 is similarly unclear. Even assuming there is sound reason for this, there needs to be flexability for situations where a government facility (prison, garage, whatever) needs to be replaced but can't be rebuilt at its current location for whatever reason.

> You realize Parag 7, mandating weekly meetings and the like actually creates more government bureaucracy and time wasting, right?

> The idea of creating a Government Employment Committee to identify and report on possible overlapping of duties and redundancies in government agencies isn't a bad one. Much like Al Gore did with the National Performance Review
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/npr/whoweare/historyofnpr.html

quite successfully I might add.
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/npr/whoweare/historyofnpr.html

The problem here is creating a commission with actual power of firing/hiring in agencies mostly under the executive branch. One can create a commission to prepare a report and recommendations (a good idea which would likely find wide support, IMHO) which can be voted up or down in the Assembly budgetary process and/or implemented by the Governor, but to legislatively create such a body with actual widespread control over executive branch agencies creates serious separation of power legal issues. Not to mention being rather undemocratic to hand over most government agency staffing decisions to an unelected board of appointees.

> Finally, this may just be differences in economic ideology, but as attacking unemployment and a stagnant economy is the imputus of this measure, isn't instituting a government hiring freeze and ending all "non-crop" farm subsidies contrary to these goals, and could well counteract positive economic effects of the proposed tax cuts?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 05, 2010, 02:11:02 PM
Wouldn't the measure eliminating all non-crop farm subsidies possibly get rid of the algae farming bill by superseding it?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 05, 2010, 05:28:57 PM
Wouldn't the measure eliminating all non-crop farm subsidies possibly get rid of the algae farming bill by superseding it?

sorry for the unclarity of that. What I intended was to end subsidies for inactive farms, those that are paid NOT to grow crops or raise livestock, etc.

Thank you for your recommendations, will work on revising the bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 05, 2010, 05:41:43 PM
Sorry, my fellow Assemblyman A-Bob, it's always easier to comment and criticize than to act.
I'm pretty unactive during this Assembly, contrary to the previous one. But, on your "big" bill, I wanted to be a bit more precise.
Generally speaking, I'm rather on the side on NAY.
But with some changes, I may be gained to the AYE.

GI JANE
Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy.
WHEREAS: Unemployment is at 12.1% in the Mideast with over 7 million citizen unemployed and
WHEREAS: Most citizens are employed in small businesses and consumer confidence is down
BE IT RESOLVED:
SECTION 1:
1.   Any business that creates 1 new job in the current fiscal year will be given a $5,000 corporate tax credit.
This is far too expensive and, of course, many businesses will take this opportunity and won't create more jobs.
I can vote for this only if it would apply to small businesses (less than 10 employees or even less, e.g.), because there, you are sure, they really create a new job.

2.   There shall be no waiting period for a business or company to start after government forms are approved.
It's OK for me.

3.   Drop the corporate tax rate to 10%, the lowest internationally. The loss of corporate tax revenue gained by the Mideast will be made up with the creation of new jobs and decrease of unemployment benefits.
Far too expensive and with no big effect, as taxes aren't at all the main criteria to decide to create a business somewhere and as the drop won't equate many more jobs.
4.   Cut capital gains tax by 20% for incomes over $500,000 and 40% for incomes under $500,000.
We can't afford this either.

5.   Welfare program requires 40 hours a week of, or a combination of education to receive a GED, job training, work or community service for those that are deemed “fit to work” by the Mideast Government. Every welfare recipient deemed “able to work” must find work within two years of being enrolled in a Mideast welfare program or four years if the recipient is attending education at any level.
I'm not sure to have grasped the first part of the first sentence. I may agree.
I'm very favourable to the second sentence.

6.   Cut income tax to 6% for those making less than $12,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 11% for those making between $12,000-$35,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 17% for those making between $35,000-$80,000. Cut the income tax to 22% for those making between $80,000-$150,000.
We can't afford this. And this is always a one-shot weapon and so hard to go back...

SECTION 2:
7.   Departments and committees of government in the Mideast will eliminate overlapping responsibilities, tasks and programs to save tax-payer funding and to guarantee no business has to file or complete the same form or paperwork more than once. Each department and committee will send one representative to a weekly meeting in which they will decide who will have what specific responsibility that they alone will posses. The “Government Employment Committee” headed by an appointee by the Governor, confirmed by the Assembly will lead these meetings.
OK, fine.

8.   A one year hiring freeze will take effect. The Mideast cannot total more workers in the government then that of the passage of this bill. If an employee is fired, a different position is allowed to be created instead of replacing that former employee.
I disagree because of my previous bill which has forbidden government to replace more than 50% of its employees retiring: that's enough for the moment.

9.   Eliminate all subsides to farms that do not grow crops.
I'm not sure to understand: farms which breed cattle or fish, which grow fruits and vegetable can't be helped any longer ? I'd disagree.

10.   The Mideast government must buy products and materials to complete projects that are the cheapest on the market when the material is non-essential to safety and not needed for efficiency (examples: toilet, paper clips, hammers)
OK

11.   Projects of the Mideast government carried out by private companies must be chosen based on the cheapest, most efficient budget requested.
That should be an amendment to my Public Procurement Policy Law, which seems to be enough on the matter to me.

12.   Halt Mideast government purchase of land for one year.
We may be forced to do it for emergency, security, protection of people, of health or of environment reasons. We must be careful on this.

13.   Eliminate corporate subsidies for corporations that cannot provide a business plan or execute a plan that will bring in a profit within 2 years or a profit enough to pay off the subsidies in 5 years giving the corporation the option time for research, development, innovation and improvement or let a different, profitable, efficient company replace the failing corporation.
Some R&D projects requires far longer periods. The idea is good, but we should amend it to make it more realistic.

14.   All Mideast funds to sanctuary cities, that knowingly hold and protect illegal peoples, shall be kept by the Mideast government or returned to the people of the Mideast.
What are those cities ?

15.   Eliminate any Mideast government job deemed unnecessary by “Government Employment Committee”.
OK if it's written "as soon as possible".


You invited suggestions, A-Bob (presumably from mere constituents as well)? OK, you asked for it....;)

> All the provisions here involving numbers with tax cuts/credits and the like needs an analysis by the GM before the region acts on this. FWIW, baring contrary figures from the GM's office I tend to agree with Happy & Fab that this is likely much too expensive.

> An all-encompassing bill sometimes is good, but this seems too far reaching and disjointed to be held together in one act. This should be split into at minimum two separate bills: One dealing with the tax cuts/credits, the other dealing with the proposed reforms of the government acquisition/regulatory process. Section 1, Para 5 could also easily be a separate bill, as could the Section 2 provisions regarding farm subsidies and government land purchases. Paragraph 14 is an entirely seperate can of worms too. By trying to cram everything in to a single measure, though, it makes the issues too unwieldy to properly debate, and overwhelms the time and attention of the Assembly and GM by putting this all on the table at one time.

> Fab's comments on parags 9 & 12 are spot on.

> Parag 2 is something of a mystery. When doesn't a business or company start right after "government forms are completed"? What types of situations or laws do you believe are currently in place to prevent this? I smell unintended consequences here.....

> The reasoning behind Para 12 is similarly unclear. Even assuming there is sound reason for this, there needs to be flexability for situations where a government facility (prison, garage, whatever) needs to be replaced but can't be rebuilt at its current location for whatever reason.

> You realize Parag 7, mandating weekly meetings and the like actually creates more government bureaucracy and time wasting, right?

> The idea of creating a Government Employment Committee to identify and report on possible overlapping of duties and redundancies in government agencies isn't a bad one. Much like Al Gore did with the National Performance Review
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/npr/whoweare/historyofnpr.html

quite successfully I might add.
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/npr/whoweare/historyofnpr.html

The problem here is creating a commission with actual power of firing/hiring in agencies mostly under the executive branch. One can create a commission to prepare a report and recommendations (a good idea which would likely find wide support, IMHO) which can be voted up or down in the Assembly budgetary process and/or implemented by the Governor, but to legislatively create such a body with actual widespread control over executive branch agencies creates serious separation of power legal issues. Not to mention being rather undemocratic to hand over most government agency staffing decisions to an unelected board of appointees.

> Finally, this may just be differences in economic ideology, but as attacking unemployment and a stagnant economy is the imputus of this measure, isn't instituting a government hiring freeze and ending all "non-crop" farm subsidies contrary to these goals, and could well counteract positive economic effects of the proposed tax cuts?
Thanks for the input. I posted the bill at the GM, but I would assume an in depth budget anaylsis was not done know the bill would dramatically change and that would cost a lot of work. I will update the bill after this post and we can go from there with some sections eliminated, most modified


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 05, 2010, 05:42:58 PM
GI JANE AMENDMENT
GI JANE will be replaced with the following
Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy.
WHEREAS: Unemployment is at 12.1% in the Mideast with over 7 million citizen unemployed and
WHEREAS: Most citizens are employed in small businesses and consumer confidence is down
BE IT RESOLVED:
SECTION 1:
1.   Any business that creates 1 new job and currently has under 15 employees in the current fiscal year will be given a $2,000 corporate tax credit.
2.   There shall be no waiting period for a business or company to start after government forms are approved.
3.   Drop the corporate tax rate to 22%.
4.   Cut capital gains tax by 3% for incomes over $500,000 and 8% for incomes under $500,000.
5.   Welfare program requires 40 hours a week of, or a combination of, education (to receive a GED), job training, work, or community service, for those that are deemed “fit to work” by the Mideast Government. Every welfare recipient deemed “able to work” must find work within two years of being enrolled in a Mideast welfare program or four years if the recipient is attending education at any level.
6.   Cut income tax to 7% for those making less than $12,000 a year.
SECTION 2:
7.   Departments and committees of government in the Mideast will eliminate overlapping responsibilities, tasks and programs to save tax-payer funding and to guarantee no business has to file or complete the same form or paperwork more than once. Each department and committee will send one representative to a weekly meeting in which they will decide who will have what specific responsibility that they alone will posses. The “Government Employment Committee” headed by an appointee by the Governor, confirmed by the Assembly will lead these meetings.
8.   Eliminate all subsides to farms that are deemed inactive and are paid to not produce or grow crops, livestock, etc.
9.   The Mideast government must buy products and materials to complete projects that are the cheapest on the market when the material is non-essential to safety and not needed for efficiency (examples: toilet, paper clips, hammers)
10.   Projects of the Mideast government carried out by private companies must be chosen based on the cheapest, most efficient budget requested.
11.   Halt Mideast government purchase of land for one year unless in case of emergency related to public health and safety.
12.   Eliminate corporate subsidies for corporations that cannot provide a business plan or execute a plan that will bring in a profit within 3 years or a profit enough to pay off the subsidies in 910years giving the corporation the option time for research, development, innovation and improvement or let a different, profitable, efficient company replace the failing corporation.
13.   The Mideast “Government Employment Committee” will recommend and advise to cut jobs they deem “unneeded” or not beneficial to the Assembly, Governor or any Department or Committee to eliminate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 05, 2010, 05:50:52 PM
well is it not already up for a vote?  Therefore at present time it can not be amended?  Only defeated and resubmitted?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 05, 2010, 06:49:42 PM
well is it not already up for a vote?  Therefore at present time it can not be amended?  Only defeated and resubmitted?

I can change it to an amendment


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 05, 2010, 06:52:25 PM
well is it not already up for a vote?  Therefore at present time it can not be amended?  Only defeated and resubmitted?

I can change it to an amendment

I don't think so.  If I remember the Constitution correctly, once a bill is brought to a vote the vote must be done, I guess you could submit an amend it after it passes if it should pass.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 05, 2010, 10:43:57 PM
I can take out most of the tax credits. But if we want economic growth we need a strong business environment which means corporate and capital gains tax cuts, once this happens and business comes to the Mideast, unemployment and welfare costs go down, more people have jobs and more revenue is created we can move to lowering taxes on those who cannot afford them to help their lives as government should, not provide for them.

I also think cutting back on useless things like expensive items when we don't need them, land we don't need and using the cheapiest, most effective business to do our government projects like infrastructure, we can save.

If I took out tax decrease for income tax would you all be more receptive to this? Hurting business is not going to be the answer to a better Mideast. With tax increases on property, sales and income taxes to pay for infrastructure that will hurt the consumer, even though I believe infrastructure is very important to fund. We just cannot have the worst business environment in Atlasia and expect unemployment to decrease with more spending, more taxes and less business


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 05, 2010, 10:57:01 PM
Economic growth does not mean we have to give corporate and capital gains tax cuts, we simply don't need to increase them either.  Maybe lowering spending would be acceptable but with the current deficit all lowering taxes will do is put us further in debt.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 06, 2010, 02:28:44 AM
I've been quite busy with finals and end of the year stuff, but let me look over everything and I'll see what I can do. Until then, try to gauge things based on the most recent budget update for the region (here (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=101096.msg2423783#msg2423783)).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 06, 2010, 09:02:28 AM
Economic growth does not mean we have to give corporate and capital gains tax cuts, we simply don't need to increase them either.  Maybe lowering spending would be acceptable but with the current deficit all lowering taxes will do is put us further in debt.

would you all be much more open to the bill if it had no tax cuts and just the cuts in funding/reform spending?

then from there we can go on to cut taxes (even a small amount) on business and capital gains


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 06, 2010, 09:08:55 AM
To my knowledge numbers 7 and 9 are already done.  The only ones that I would be open to possibly looking into are numbers 12 and 13.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 06, 2010, 12:35:05 PM
It's not up for debate, fyi.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 06, 2010, 01:14:51 PM

Touche. Edited above for accuracy.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 06, 2010, 04:12:42 PM
GI JANE AMENDMENT
GI JANE will be replaced with the following
Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy.
WHEREAS: Unemployment is at 12.1% in the Mideast with over 7 million citizen unemployed and
WHEREAS: Most citizens are employed in small businesses and consumer confidence is down
BE IT RESOLVED:
SECTION 1:
1.   Any business that creates 1 new job and currently has under 15 employees in the current fiscal year will be given a $2,000 corporate tax credit.
2.   There shall be no waiting period for a business or company to start after government forms are approved.
3.   Drop the corporate tax rate to 22%.
4.   Cut capital gains tax by 4% for incomes over $500,000 and 7% for incomes under $500,000.
5.   Welfare program requires 40 hours a week of, or a combination of, education (to receive a GED), job training, work, or community service, for those that are deemed “fit to work” by the Mideast Government. Every welfare recipient deemed “able to work” must find work within two years of being enrolled in a Mideast welfare program or four years if the recipient is attending education at any level.
SECTION 2:
6.   Departments and committees of government in the Mideast will eliminate overlapping responsibilities, tasks and programs to save tax-payer funding and to guarantee no business has to file or complete the same form or paperwork more than once. Each department and committee will send one representative to a weekly meeting in which they will decide who will have what specific responsibility that they alone will posses. The “Government Employment Committee” headed by an appointee by the Governor, confirmed by the Assembly will lead these meetings.
7.   Eliminate all subsides to farms that are deemed inactive and are paid to not produce or grow crops, livestock, etc.
8.   The Mideast government must buy products and materials to complete projects that are the cheapest on the market when the material is non-essential to safety and not needed for efficiency (examples: toilet, paper clips, hammers)
9.   Projects of the Mideast government carried out by private companies must be chosen based on the cheapest, most efficient budget requested.
10.   Halt Mideast government purchase of land for one year unless in case of emergency related to public health and safety.
11.   Eliminate corporate subsidies for corporations that cannot provide a business plan or execute a plan that will bring in a profit within 3 years or a profit enough to pay off the subsidies in 9 years giving the corporation the option time for research, development, innovation and improvement or let a different, profitable, efficient company replace the failing corporation.
12.   The Mideast “Government Employment Committee” will recommend and advise to cut jobs they deem “unneeded” or not beneficial to the Assembly, Governor or any Department or Committee to eliminate.

There's the updated version (After doing whatever rules we must follow). We'll haveto wait for the GM report to know specific money numbers


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 07, 2010, 03:44:47 AM
I agree except on numbers 3 & 4, but may be convinced when we've got some numbers from our GM.



Dear Speaker, do you think you can open another debate while we're waiting for some numbers ? Just a question.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 07, 2010, 09:31:16 AM
I agree except on numbers 3 & 4, but may be convinced when we've got some numbers from our GM.



Dear Speaker, do you think you can open another debate while we're waiting for some numbers ? Just a question.

The payoff is controlling unemployment and being able to stop writing off welfare checks and unemployment benefits to over a tenth of our region. We can cut significant funds there when business moves to the region.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 08, 2010, 01:32:46 AM
Sorry guys - I meant it was up for debate.  Nothing dealing with GI JANE has been voted on yet.  I'm not sure why I typed that (because I knew what I meant to say - I just now realized I said the wrong thing).

I'll look at the bill tomorrow and give my take on it - I gotta get to bed now - work in the morning.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 08, 2010, 10:45:37 PM
Looks good to me.  While we're waiting on the GM numbers, I'm going to bypass this for a bit and start debating the next bill, because I now that we have a few bills people want to get through.



Debate is now open on this.  Folks, this is a good bill - this is nasty stuff, and it'd be best to try to get it somewhat under control now, rather than later.

Quote
A RESOLUTION CONCERNING INVASIVE SPECIES-NEED FOR A ERADICATION OF KUDZU

WHEREAS: For the purpose of ridding the Mideast Regin of the invasive species Pueraria
Montana
, common name Kudzu, which is growing more common in the Southeast United States; and,

WHEREAS: Kudzu has been proven to damage crops, with average estimates reaching $500 million dollars annually as well as effects local plants and infrastructure in a given area where it grows out of control.

BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast Region shall encourage the removal and control of Kudzu within the Mideast Region through various methods including but not limited to crown removal, grazing, controlled firing, and fungal herbicide.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 08, 2010, 10:52:28 PM
I agree with Inks. Let's get this bill passed fast


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 08, 2010, 11:01:53 PM
Kudzu is a terrible plant and as I mentioned in this bill over 500 million dollars in crops and maintenance costs are lost yearly thanks to it in the Southeast United States.

()


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 09, 2010, 02:11:15 AM
At long last: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=101096.msg2482734#msg2482734

A couple of clarifications could affect the numbers I have there.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 09, 2010, 02:39:57 AM
I don't expect much debate on the Kudzu bill, so here's the plan:

Assuming no debate on the Kudzu bill, we'll have a vote on that tonight.  Debate will continue on GI JANE.  Then we'll either vote on GI JANE, or if that debate goes on for a while, we'll vote on the abortion bill while still working out the details of GI JANE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 09, 2010, 10:11:11 AM
I don't expect much debate on the Kudzu bill, so here's the plan:

Assuming no debate on the Kudzu bill, we'll have a vote on that tonight.  Debate will continue on GI JANE.  Then we'll either vote on GI JANE, or if that debate goes on for a while, we'll vote on the abortion bill while still working out the details of GI JANE.

with the suggestions of the GM, would I be able to give it a final update?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 09, 2010, 02:00:12 PM
I don't expect much debate on the Kudzu bill, so here's the plan:

Assuming no debate on the Kudzu bill, we'll have a vote on that tonight.  Debate will continue on GI JANE.  Then we'll either vote on GI JANE, or if that debate goes on for a while, we'll vote on the abortion bill while still working out the details of GI JANE.

with the suggestions of the GM, would I be able to give it a final update?
Absolutely - take as long as you need (at least up until May 25th - then it needs to head to a vote).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 09, 2010, 04:17:42 PM
GI JANE
Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy.
WHEREAS: Unemployment is at 12.1% in the Mideast with over 7 million citizen unemployed and
WHEREAS: Most citizens are employed in small businesses and consumer confidence is down
BE IT RESOLVED:
SECTION 1:
1.   Any business that creates 1 new job and currently has under 15 employees will be given a $2,000 corporate tax credit effective immediately after the passage of the bill into law for one year after. A $500 corporate tax credit will be given to each corporation that creates a 2nd job. A corporation may only receive $2,000 tax credit for creating one job, or a combined $2,500 for creating two jobs.
2.   There shall be no waiting period for a business or company to start after government forms are approved.
3.   Drop the corporate tax rate to 22%.
4.   Cut capital gains tax by 4% for incomes over $500,000 and 7% for incomes under $500,000.
5.   Welfare program requires 40 hours a week of, or a combination of, education (to receive a GED), job training, work, or community service, for those that are deemed “fit to work” by the Mideast Government. Every welfare recipient deemed “able to work” must find work within two years of being enrolled in a Mideast welfare program or four years if the recipient is attending education at any level. Clause 5 will be headed by a task force appointed by the Governor, approved by the assembly which will be part of the Mideast Welfare Program.
SECTION 2:
6.   Departments and committees of government in the Mideast will eliminate overlapping responsibilities, tasks and programs to save tax-payer funding and to guarantee no business has to file or complete the same form or paperwork more than once. Each department and committee will send one representative to a weekly meeting in which they will decide who will have what specific responsibility that they alone will posses. The “Government Employment Committee” headed by an appointee by the Governor, confirmed by the Assembly will lead these meetings. These positions will be non-playable.
7.   Eliminate all subsides to farms that are deemed inactive and are paid to not produce or grow crops, livestock, etc.
8.   The Mideast government must buy products and materials to complete projects that are the cheapest on the market when the material is non-essential to safety and not needed for efficiency (examples: toilet, paper clips, hammers)
9.   Projects of the Mideast government carried out by private companies must be chosen based on the cheapest, most efficient budget requested.
10.   Halt Mideast government purchase of land for one year unless in case of emergency related to public health and safety.
11.   Eliminate corporate subsidies for corporations that cannot provide a business plan or execute a plan that will bring in a profit within 3 years or a profit enough to pay off the subsidies in 9 years giving the corporation the option time for research, development, innovation and improvement or let a different, profitable, efficient company replace the failing corporation. A corporation may be exempt from clause 11 if the corporation is deemed a necessity to the Mideast’s public safety or otherwise noted and regulated by the Mideast Assembly and Governor.
12.   The Mideast “Government Employment Committee” will recommend and advise to cut jobs they deem “unneeded” or not beneficial to the Assembly, Governor or any Department or Committee to eliminate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 09, 2010, 06:56:10 PM
I'll look at the whole thing later tonight, but the "GI JANE will be replaced with the following" clause needs to be taken out, since GI JANE was never passed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on May 10, 2010, 08:36:52 AM
At long last: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=101096.msg2482734#msg2482734

A couple of clarifications could affect the numbers I have there.

I notice, Mr. GM, your analysis left out any effect (i.e. deficits) from these tax cuts and credits. While I understand that properly applied tax cuts can sometime create more revenue in the long run through increased economic production than lost through reduced taxes collected, but frequently there's still an overall revenue loss as the laws of diminishing returns kick in.

Like Happy Warrior, I'm sceptical these tax breaks won't result in an overall loss of revenue--possibly drastically. That isn't to say this plan is necessarily unwarranted even if it increases the deficit, as temporarily running a deficit may be warranted in an effort to "prim the pump" for the region's lagging economy.

The economic effects of Clauses 7, 10, & 11 aren't measured either. This is important as, even IF such measures are necessary in the long term, they would undoubtedly negatively effect hob growth.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 10, 2010, 08:39:18 AM
At long last: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=101096.msg2482734#msg2482734

A couple of clarifications could affect the numbers I have there.

I notice, Mr. GM, your analysis left out any effect (i.e. deficits) from these tax cuts and credits. While I understand that properly applied tax cuts can sometime create more revenue in the long run through increased economic production than lost through reduced taxes collected, but frequently there's still an overall revenue loss as the laws of diminishing returns kick in.

Like Happy Warrior, I'm sceptical these tax breaks won't result in an overall loss of revenue--possibly drastically. That isn't to say this plan is necessarily unwarranted even if it increases the deficit, as temporarily running a deficit may be warranted in an effort to "prim the pump" for the region's lagging economy.

The economic effects of Clauses 7, 10, & 11 aren't measured either. This is important as, even IF such measures are necessary in the long term, they would undoubtedly negatively effect hob growth.
All budget cuts were not measured though, so keep that in mind that we only got the revenue lost, not saved


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 10, 2010, 02:13:41 PM
At long last: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=101096.msg2482734#msg2482734

A couple of clarifications could affect the numbers I have there.

I notice, Mr. GM, your analysis left out any effect (i.e. deficits) from these tax cuts and credits. While I understand that properly applied tax cuts can sometime create more revenue in the long run through increased economic production than lost through reduced taxes collected, but frequently there's still an overall revenue loss as the laws of diminishing returns kick in.

Like Happy Warrior, I'm sceptical these tax breaks won't result in an overall loss of revenue--possibly drastically. That isn't to say this plan is necessarily unwarranted even if it increases the deficit, as temporarily running a deficit may be warranted in an effort to "prim the pump" for the region's lagging economy.

The economic effects of Clauses 7, 10, & 11 aren't measured either. This is important as, even IF such measures are necessary in the long term, they would undoubtedly negatively effect hob growth.

My projections take all of that into account. The "cost" accounts for reduced expenditures (e.g. cutting farm subsidies) and lost revenue (e.g. tax credits). Those projections have the stated impact on the deficit, thus it will increase the deficit by $3 billion for each of the next two years and $10 billion over 10 years.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 10, 2010, 05:01:22 PM
At long last: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=101096.msg2482734#msg2482734

A couple of clarifications could affect the numbers I have there.

I notice, Mr. GM, your analysis left out any effect (i.e. deficits) from these tax cuts and credits. While I understand that properly applied tax cuts can sometime create more revenue in the long run through increased economic production than lost through reduced taxes collected, but frequently there's still an overall revenue loss as the laws of diminishing returns kick in.

Like Happy Warrior, I'm sceptical these tax breaks won't result in an overall loss of revenue--possibly drastically. That isn't to say this plan is necessarily unwarranted even if it increases the deficit, as temporarily running a deficit may be warranted in an effort to "prim the pump" for the region's lagging economy.

The economic effects of Clauses 7, 10, & 11 aren't measured either. This is important as, even IF such measures are necessary in the long term, they would undoubtedly negatively effect hob growth.

My projections take all of that into account. The "cost" accounts for reduced expenditures (e.g. cutting farm subsidies) and lost revenue (e.g. tax credits). Those projections have the stated impact on the deficit, thus it will increase the deficit by $3 billion for each of the next two years and $10 billion over 10 years.
Does it include the cost saved with the drop in unemployment and welfare recipents?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: hawkeye59 on May 10, 2010, 09:01:29 PM
I'm not an assemblyman yet, but I'm thinking about proposing a bill when I get elected, cutting the burning of fossil fuels in the Mideast by 20%.
What do you think?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 10, 2010, 09:50:26 PM
I'm not an assemblyman yet, but I'm thinking about proposing a bill when I get elected, cutting the burning of fossil fuels in the Mideast by 20%.
What do you think?

It would need to be a bit more specific than that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 10, 2010, 09:53:05 PM
I'm not an assemblyman yet, but I'm thinking about proposing a bill when I get elected, cutting the burning of fossil fuels in the Mideast by 20%.
What do you think?

what would be the timeframe? Not possible in less then 20 years, and even 30 years is very much pushing it. We can't just expect to wake up and power tens and tens of millions in the Mideast without fossil fuels.

Before this is considered there needs to be break throughs in R&D on multiple levels and areas of alternative energy. Which is what the Assembly has been recently pushing (see my Algae bill).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 11, 2010, 01:37:29 AM
At long last: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=101096.msg2482734#msg2482734

A couple of clarifications could affect the numbers I have there.

I notice, Mr. GM, your analysis left out any effect (i.e. deficits) from these tax cuts and credits. While I understand that properly applied tax cuts can sometime create more revenue in the long run through increased economic production than lost through reduced taxes collected, but frequently there's still an overall revenue loss as the laws of diminishing returns kick in.

Like Happy Warrior, I'm sceptical these tax breaks won't result in an overall loss of revenue--possibly drastically. That isn't to say this plan is necessarily unwarranted even if it increases the deficit, as temporarily running a deficit may be warranted in an effort to "prim the pump" for the region's lagging economy.

The economic effects of Clauses 7, 10, & 11 aren't measured either. This is important as, even IF such measures are necessary in the long term, they would undoubtedly negatively effect hob growth.

My projections take all of that into account. The "cost" accounts for reduced expenditures (e.g. cutting farm subsidies) and lost revenue (e.g. tax credits). Those projections have the stated impact on the deficit, thus it will increase the deficit by $3 billion for each of the next two years and $10 billion over 10 years.
Does it include the cost saved with the drop in unemployment and welfare recipents?

It includes everything except for what it specifically states is not included. Obviously the number of more clauses that are more difficult to calculate made the process slightly less accurate, but you can take those numbers as the answer to all your questions.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: hawkeye59 on May 11, 2010, 07:14:57 AM
I'm not an assemblyman yet, but I'm thinking about proposing a bill when I get elected, cutting the burning of fossil fuels in the Mideast by 20%.
What do you think?

what would be the timeframe? Not possible in less then 20 years, and even 30 years is very much pushing it. We can't just expect to wake up and power tens and tens of millions in the Mideast without fossil fuels.

Before this is considered there needs to be break throughs in R&D on multiple levels and areas of alternative energy. Which is what the Assembly has been recently pushing (see my Algae bill).
Maybe 40 years.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: hawkeye59 on May 11, 2010, 07:20:16 AM
How about 20% reduction in the emission of fossil fuels?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 11, 2010, 09:01:39 AM
How about 20% reduction in the emission of fossil fuels?

why are you asking again?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 11, 2010, 12:24:45 PM
I personally would like to get rid of the lowering of the corporate tax as well as the cuts to the capital gains taxes.  These cuts are not workable in the current economy from what I've seen.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 11, 2010, 04:10:29 PM
I personally would like to get rid of the lowering of the corporate tax as well as the cuts to the capital gains taxes.  These cuts are not workable in the current economy from what I've seen.

the GM said that the job creation coming of this bill was from the tax cuts. We aren't going to ever control unemployment and bring it down to reasonable numbers without welcoming business.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on May 11, 2010, 07:11:08 PM
I'm not an assemblyman yet, but I'm thinking about proposing a bill when I get elected, cutting the burning of fossil fuels in the Mideast by 20%.
What do you think?

How are we to do it?

First, as A-Bob said, we don't know what timeframe you have in mind, and I have to second him in everything else he said also. Of course, I can't ask a lot of other questions without actually reading through the bill that you intend to propose.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 11, 2010, 11:13:04 PM
Voting is now open on the following bill.  This will be a 48 hour vote:

Quote
A RESOLUTION CONCERNING INVASIVE SPECIES-NEED FOR A ERADICATION OF KUDZU

WHEREAS: For the purpose of ridding the Mideast Regin of the invasive species Pueraria
Montana
, common name Kudzu, which is growing more common in the Southeast United States; and,

WHEREAS: Kudzu has been proven to damage crops, with average estimates reaching $500 million dollars annually as well as effects local plants and infrastructure in a given area where it grows out of control.

BE IT RESOLVED: The Mideast Region shall encourage the removal and control of Kudzu within the Mideast Region through various methods including but not limited to crown removal, grazing, controlled firing, and fungal herbicide.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 11, 2010, 11:13:29 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 12, 2010, 01:59:59 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 12, 2010, 08:12:35 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 12, 2010, 09:03:35 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: hawkeye59 on May 12, 2010, 09:27:37 AM
A 20% percent reduction in the emission of fossil fuels in the next 30 years.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 12, 2010, 10:58:06 AM
A 20% percent reduction in the emission of fossil fuels in the next 30 years.

Is it your way of campaigning ?

I'm not sure shouting things repeatedly from the lobbies of this Assembly is the most efficient way to get elected... :P

Order, please ;D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 12, 2010, 04:12:25 PM
A 20% percent reduction in the emission of fossil fuels in the next 30 years.

Is it your way of campaigning ?

I'm not sure shouting things repeatedly from the lobbies of this Assembly is the most efficient way to get elected... :P

Order, please ;D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 12, 2010, 04:37:59 PM
For GI JANE, I'm happy with everything but clause 7:

7.   Eliminate all subsides to farms that are deemed inactive and are paid to not produce or grow crops, livestock, etc.

We can't just eliminate subsidies immediately.  I think we have to phase them out, otherwise we're going to see our farmers take a huge hit, and I don't know if the economy could handle that right now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: President Mitt on May 12, 2010, 04:42:59 PM
A 20% percent reduction in the emission of fossil fuels in the next 30 years.

You are not an Assemblyman. Do leave. No interrupting allowed here.

Oh Damn! Now I'm interrupting Assembly business! (Notices assembly looking at him pissed, walks away in hypocritical shame)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 12, 2010, 04:46:36 PM
**Pulls out shotgun from the Speaker's podium, lifts in the air and fires at the ceiling.**

Quiet in the galleries!

**Smiles and returns shotgun to podium.**


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 12, 2010, 05:13:27 PM
Thankyou Mr. Speaker,

BBF, would pulling subsidies for inactive farms over 3-4 years be good? Any longer then that and we are very much still funding some farms to not be farmers. Also subsidies will not be cut when those farmers are in R&D stages.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 12, 2010, 05:25:48 PM
Thankyou Mr. Speaker,

BBF, would pulling subsidies for inactive farms over 3-4 years be good? Any longer then that and we are very much still funding some farms to not be farmers. Also subsidies will not be cut when those farmers are in R&D stages.

What R&D?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 12, 2010, 05:30:39 PM
Thankyou Mr. Speaker,

BBF, would pulling subsidies for inactive farms over 3-4 years be good? Any longer then that and we are very much still funding some farms to not be farmers. Also subsidies will not be cut when those farmers are in R&D stages.

What R&D?

Any testing of products or use of the farm for R&D, like algae


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 12, 2010, 06:12:16 PM
Thankyou Mr. Speaker,

BBF, would pulling subsidies for inactive farms over 3-4 years be good? Any longer then that and we are very much still funding some farms to not be farmers. Also subsidies will not be cut when those farmers are in R&D stages.

What R&D?

Any testing of products or use of the farm for R&D, like algae

I mean how are farmers involved in R&D?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 12, 2010, 06:21:31 PM
Thankyou Mr. Speaker,

BBF, would pulling subsidies for inactive farms over 3-4 years be good? Any longer then that and we are very much still funding some farms to not be farmers. Also subsidies will not be cut when those farmers are in R&D stages.

What R&D?

Any testing of products or use of the farm for R&D, like algae

I mean how are farmers involved in R&D?

by using their farms for the research, however that means they are active. I was just clearing that up for any possible confusing that if a farm was involved in R&D over a regular year if that counted. Though I'm not sure many farmers at all would be affected at all. But in the algae bill we gave incentives to R&D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 12, 2010, 06:25:10 PM
Thankyou Mr. Speaker,

BBF, would pulling subsidies for inactive farms over 3-4 years be good? Any longer then that and we are very much still funding some farms to not be farmers. Also subsidies will not be cut when those farmers are in R&D stages.

What R&D?

Any testing of products or use of the farm for R&D, like algae

I mean how are farmers involved in R&D?

by using their farms for the research, however that means they are active. I was just clearing that up for any possible confusing that if a farm was involved in R&D over a regular year if that counted. Though I'm not sure many farmers at all would be affected at all. But in the algae bill we gave incentives to R&D

This bill in its entirety seems to be harmful to farmers as well as beneficial mainly to large corporations.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 12, 2010, 07:10:18 PM
Thankyou Mr. Speaker,

BBF, would pulling subsidies for inactive farms over 3-4 years be good? Any longer then that and we are very much still funding some farms to not be farmers. Also subsidies will not be cut when those farmers are in R&D stages.

What R&D?

Any testing of products or use of the farm for R&D, like algae

I mean how are farmers involved in R&D?

by using their farms for the research, however that means they are active. I was just clearing that up for any possible confusing that if a farm was involved in R&D over a regular year if that counted. Though I'm not sure many farmers at all would be affected at all. But in the algae bill we gave incentives to R&D

This bill in its entirety seems to be harmful to farmers as well as beneficial mainly to large corporations.
it restricts bailouts to large corporations and ends waste. Why should we pay farmers to NOT work? I'm for helping them out TO work, but it makes no sense to me to send them money in return for letting their fields sit without crops or animals


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 12, 2010, 07:16:33 PM
Thankyou Mr. Speaker,

BBF, would pulling subsidies for inactive farms over 3-4 years be good? Any longer then that and we are very much still funding some farms to not be farmers. Also subsidies will not be cut when those farmers are in R&D stages.

What R&D?

Any testing of products or use of the farm for R&D, like algae

I mean how are farmers involved in R&D?

by using their farms for the research, however that means they are active. I was just clearing that up for any possible confusing that if a farm was involved in R&D over a regular year if that counted. Though I'm not sure many farmers at all would be affected at all. But in the algae bill we gave incentives to R&D

This bill in its entirety seems to be harmful to farmers as well as beneficial mainly to large corporations.
it restricts bailouts to large corporations and ends waste. Why should we pay farmers to NOT work? I'm for helping them out TO work, but it makes no sense to me to send them money in return for letting their fields sit without crops or animals

By the way, this is the only thing that has been done recently to my knowledge about subsidies.  https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Atlasian_Agriculture_Reinvestment_Act

Also to qualify for subsidies they must plant, they can't just get the money and do nothing with it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 12, 2010, 07:18:31 PM
Thankyou Mr. Speaker,

BBF, would pulling subsidies for inactive farms over 3-4 years be good? Any longer then that and we are very much still funding some farms to not be farmers. Also subsidies will not be cut when those farmers are in R&D stages.

What R&D?

Any testing of products or use of the farm for R&D, like algae

I mean how are farmers involved in R&D?

by using their farms for the research, however that means they are active. I was just clearing that up for any possible confusing that if a farm was involved in R&D over a regular year if that counted. Though I'm not sure many farmers at all would be affected at all. But in the algae bill we gave incentives to R&D

This bill in its entirety seems to be harmful to farmers as well as beneficial mainly to large corporations.
it restricts bailouts to large corporations and ends waste. Why should we pay farmers to NOT work? I'm for helping them out TO work, but it makes no sense to me to send them money in return for letting their fields sit without crops or animals

By the way, this is the only thing that has been done recently to my knowledge about subsidies.  https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Atlasian_Agriculture_Reinvestment_Act

Also to qualify for subsidies they must plant, they can't just get the money and do nothing with it.

but since we don't have an actual budget, I'm including this to reassure ourselves of something we should be doing in the first place. No use wasting money when we can be cutting the defecit and creating jobs instead.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 12, 2010, 07:20:34 PM
Thankyou Mr. Speaker,

BBF, would pulling subsidies for inactive farms over 3-4 years be good? Any longer then that and we are very much still funding some farms to not be farmers. Also subsidies will not be cut when those farmers are in R&D stages.

What R&D?

Any testing of products or use of the farm for R&D, like algae

I mean how are farmers involved in R&D?

by using their farms for the research, however that means they are active. I was just clearing that up for any possible confusing that if a farm was involved in R&D over a regular year if that counted. Though I'm not sure many farmers at all would be affected at all. But in the algae bill we gave incentives to R&D

This bill in its entirety seems to be harmful to farmers as well as beneficial mainly to large corporations.
it restricts bailouts to large corporations and ends waste. Why should we pay farmers to NOT work? I'm for helping them out TO work, but it makes no sense to me to send them money in return for letting their fields sit without crops or animals

By the way, this is the only thing that has been done recently to my knowledge about subsidies.  https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Atlasian_Agriculture_Reinvestment_Act

Also to qualify for subsidies they must plant, they can't just get the money and do nothing with it.

but since we don't have an actual budget, I'm including this to reassure ourselves of something we should be doing in the first place. No use wasting money when we can be cutting the defecit and creating jobs instead.

This would get rid of the jobs of farmers, rather than adding new jobs.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 12, 2010, 07:23:17 PM
Thankyou Mr. Speaker,

BBF, would pulling subsidies for inactive farms over 3-4 years be good? Any longer then that and we are very much still funding some farms to not be farmers. Also subsidies will not be cut when those farmers are in R&D stages.

What R&D?

Any testing of products or use of the farm for R&D, like algae

I mean how are farmers involved in R&D?

by using their farms for the research, however that means they are active. I was just clearing that up for any possible confusing that if a farm was involved in R&D over a regular year if that counted. Though I'm not sure many farmers at all would be affected at all. But in the algae bill we gave incentives to R&D

This bill in its entirety seems to be harmful to farmers as well as beneficial mainly to large corporations.
it restricts bailouts to large corporations and ends waste. Why should we pay farmers to NOT work? I'm for helping them out TO work, but it makes no sense to me to send them money in return for letting their fields sit without crops or animals

By the way, this is the only thing that has been done recently to my knowledge about subsidies.  https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Atlasian_Agriculture_Reinvestment_Act

Also to qualify for subsidies they must plant, they can't just get the money and do nothing with it.

but since we don't have an actual budget, I'm including this to reassure ourselves of something we should be doing in the first place. No use wasting money when we can be cutting the defecit and creating jobs instead.

This would get rid of the jobs of farmers, rather than adding new jobs.

yes, cutting the jobs and pay to those that do not work anyways.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 12, 2010, 07:25:42 PM
Thankyou Mr. Speaker,

BBF, would pulling subsidies for inactive farms over 3-4 years be good? Any longer then that and we are very much still funding some farms to not be farmers. Also subsidies will not be cut when those farmers are in R&D stages.

What R&D?

Any testing of products or use of the farm for R&D, like algae

I mean how are farmers involved in R&D?

by using their farms for the research, however that means they are active. I was just clearing that up for any possible confusing that if a farm was involved in R&D over a regular year if that counted. Though I'm not sure many farmers at all would be affected at all. But in the algae bill we gave incentives to R&D

This bill in its entirety seems to be harmful to farmers as well as beneficial mainly to large corporations.
it restricts bailouts to large corporations and ends waste. Why should we pay farmers to NOT work? I'm for helping them out TO work, but it makes no sense to me to send them money in return for letting their fields sit without crops or animals

By the way, this is the only thing that has been done recently to my knowledge about subsidies.  https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Atlasian_Agriculture_Reinvestment_Act

Also to qualify for subsidies they must plant, they can't just get the money and do nothing with it.

but since we don't have an actual budget, I'm including this to reassure ourselves of something we should be doing in the first place. No use wasting money when we can be cutting the defecit and creating jobs instead.

This would get rid of the jobs of farmers, rather than adding new jobs.

yes, cutting the jobs and pay to those that do not work anyways.

The only subsidies paid to farmers to not grow crops are paid to individuals to not grow tobacco, which my federal bill eliminated, in essense this would do nothing.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 12, 2010, 07:27:00 PM
Thankyou Mr. Speaker,

BBF, would pulling subsidies for inactive farms over 3-4 years be good? Any longer then that and we are very much still funding some farms to not be farmers. Also subsidies will not be cut when those farmers are in R&D stages.

What R&D?

Any testing of products or use of the farm for R&D, like algae

I mean how are farmers involved in R&D?

by using their farms for the research, however that means they are active. I was just clearing that up for any possible confusing that if a farm was involved in R&D over a regular year if that counted. Though I'm not sure many farmers at all would be affected at all. But in the algae bill we gave incentives to R&D

This bill in its entirety seems to be harmful to farmers as well as beneficial mainly to large corporations.
it restricts bailouts to large corporations and ends waste. Why should we pay farmers to NOT work? I'm for helping them out TO work, but it makes no sense to me to send them money in return for letting their fields sit without crops or animals

By the way, this is the only thing that has been done recently to my knowledge about subsidies.  https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Atlasian_Agriculture_Reinvestment_Act

Also to qualify for subsidies they must plant, they can't just get the money and do nothing with it.

but since we don't have an actual budget, I'm including this to reassure ourselves of something we should be doing in the first place. No use wasting money when we can be cutting the defecit and creating jobs instead.

This would get rid of the jobs of farmers, rather than adding new jobs.

yes, cutting the jobs and pay to those that do not work anyways.

The only subsidies paid to farmers to not grow crops are paid to individuals to not grow tobacco, which my federal bill eliminated, in essense this would do nothing.

then why are you afraid of it? It just reassures us for sure that farmers are paid to be active farmers and not inactive since we cannot be 100% sure without a real budget.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 12, 2010, 07:27:56 PM
My big concerns lie with taxes and spending.  I don't think that tax cuts will be able to make up much of the lost revenue, especially now.  I'm also concerned that the spending cuts will have negative impacts on the most important areas like education and health care.  Unless GI Jane is seriously amended, it won't have my vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 12, 2010, 07:28:59 PM
Thankyou Mr. Speaker,

BBF, would pulling subsidies for inactive farms over 3-4 years be good? Any longer then that and we are very much still funding some farms to not be farmers. Also subsidies will not be cut when those farmers are in R&D stages.

What R&D?

Any testing of products or use of the farm for R&D, like algae

I mean how are farmers involved in R&D?

by using their farms for the research, however that means they are active. I was just clearing that up for any possible confusing that if a farm was involved in R&D over a regular year if that counted. Though I'm not sure many farmers at all would be affected at all. But in the algae bill we gave incentives to R&D

This bill in its entirety seems to be harmful to farmers as well as beneficial mainly to large corporations.
it restricts bailouts to large corporations and ends waste. Why should we pay farmers to NOT work? I'm for helping them out TO work, but it makes no sense to me to send them money in return for letting their fields sit without crops or animals

By the way, this is the only thing that has been done recently to my knowledge about subsidies.  https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Atlasian_Agriculture_Reinvestment_Act

Also to qualify for subsidies they must plant, they can't just get the money and do nothing with it.

but since we don't have an actual budget, I'm including this to reassure ourselves of something we should be doing in the first place. No use wasting money when we can be cutting the defecit and creating jobs instead.

This would get rid of the jobs of farmers, rather than adding new jobs.

yes, cutting the jobs and pay to those that do not work anyways.

The only subsidies paid to farmers to not grow crops are paid to individuals to not grow tobacco, which my federal bill eliminated, in essense this would do nothing.

then why are you afraid of it? It just reassures us for sure that farmers are paid to be active farmers and not inactive since we cannot be 100% sure without a real budget.

Because I have a problem when a portion of legislation does essentially nothing.  By the way I will be writing a bill establishing a regional budget soon.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on May 12, 2010, 07:47:11 PM
By the way I will be writing a bill establishing a regional budget soon.

WOOT!! ;D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 12, 2010, 07:48:33 PM
By the way I will be writing a bill establishing a regional budget soon.

WOOT!! ;D

I hope to have it passed by the end of my next term.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on May 12, 2010, 08:03:43 PM
By the way I will be writing a bill establishing a regional budget soon.

WOOT!! ;D

I hope to have it passed by the end of my next term.

I think you may've just earned first preference. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 12, 2010, 08:10:45 PM
By the way I will be writing a bill establishing a regional budget soon.

WOOT!! ;D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 12, 2010, 08:13:13 PM
My big concerns lie with taxes and spending.  I don't think that tax cuts will be able to make up much of the lost revenue, especially now.  I'm also concerned that the spending cuts will have negative impacts on the most important areas like education and health care.  Unless GI Jane is seriously amended, it won't have my vote.

can you point out the clauses that cut education and health care? Cutting overlapping projects that are doing the exact same thing is only fiscally responsible. Having one committee in charge of a project over three that are all doing the same thing with different titles is what I've intended in the bill


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on May 12, 2010, 09:15:55 PM
My big concerns lie with taxes and spending.  I don't think that tax cuts will be able to make up much of the lost revenue, especially now.  I'm also concerned that the spending cuts will have negative impacts on the most important areas like education and health care.  Unless GI Jane is seriously amended, it won't have my vote.

can you point out the clauses that cut education and health care? Cutting overlapping projects that are doing the exact same thing is only fiscally responsible. Having one committee in charge of a project over three that are all doing the same thing with different titles is what I've intended in the bill

I think Ben means--quite correctly--that the tremendous scale of tax cuts proposed here will drastically reduce government revenues necessary to fund crucial regional services such as education and health care (and law enforcement, and job training, and environmental protection, etc.). Your bill doesn't call for such cuts explicitly, but the $3 billion shortfall ($10 bil over 10--and I still think the GM was being generous considering the scope of these cuts) will require cuts in such necessary services as sure as night follows day.

Sadly, the old bromides about curing the deficit by "eliminating fraud and waste" or making it up with increased economic production doesn't pan out, as Bush clearly demonstrated.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 12, 2010, 09:18:16 PM
My big concerns lie with taxes and spending.  I don't think that tax cuts will be able to make up much of the lost revenue, especially now.  I'm also concerned that the spending cuts will have negative impacts on the most important areas like education and health care.  Unless GI Jane is seriously amended, it won't have my vote.

can you point out the clauses that cut education and health care? Cutting overlapping projects that are doing the exact same thing is only fiscally responsible. Having one committee in charge of a project over three that are all doing the same thing with different titles is what I've intended in the bill

I think Ben means--quite correctly--that the tremendous scale of tax cuts proposed here will drastically reduce government revenues necessary to fund crucial regional services such as education and health care (and law enforcement, and job training, and environmental protection, etc.). Your bill doesn't call for such cuts explicitly, but the $3 billion shortfall ($10 bil over 10--and I still think the GM was being generous considering the scope of these cuts) will require cuts in such necessary services as sure as night follows day.

Sadly, the old bromides about curing the deficit by "eliminating fraud and waste" or making it up with increased economic production doesn't pan out, as Bush clearly demonstrated.

If however we got a real budget law passed first...then we could actually control government cost and make this resonable which would create millions of jobs. Win-win there so we don't have to cut education or health care necessities


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on May 12, 2010, 09:20:30 PM
My big concerns lie with taxes and spending.  I don't think that tax cuts will be able to make up much of the lost revenue, especially now.  I'm also concerned that the spending cuts will have negative impacts on the most important areas like education and health care.  Unless GI Jane is seriously amended, it won't have my vote.

can you point out the clauses that cut education and health care? Cutting overlapping projects that are doing the exact same thing is only fiscally responsible. Having one committee in charge of a project over three that are all doing the same thing with different titles is what I've intended in the bill

I think Ben means--quite correctly--that the tremendous scale of tax cuts proposed here will drastically reduce government revenues necessary to fund crucial regional services such as education and health care (and law enforcement, and job training, and environmental protection, etc.). Your bill doesn't call for such cuts explicitly, but the $3 billion shortfall ($10 bil over 10--and I still think the GM was being generous considering the scope of these cuts) will require cuts in such necessary services as sure as night follows day.

Sadly, the old bromides about curing the deficit by "eliminating fraud and waste" or making it up with increased economic production doesn't pan out, as Bush clearly demonstrated.

If however we got a real budget law passed first...then we could actually control government cost and make this resonable which would create millions of jobs. Win-win there so we don't have to cut education or health care necessities

Well, I'm not sure I agree that this plan is affordable as is. But as debates like this are so hard to have without firm numbers and programs this is why I agree we need a budget.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 14, 2010, 12:09:24 AM
On the final vote for A RESOLUTION CONCERNING INVASIVE SPECIES-NEED FOR A ERADICATION OF KUDZU:

The AYEs are 4, and the NAYs are 0.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.



Now, are we still debating GI JANE, or are you guys ready to bring it to a vote?  I'm still concerned about the abrupt dropping of the subsidies in Clause 7, and I know there were other concerns, but if we're deadlocked in movement on the bill, we can just bring it up for a vote now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on May 14, 2010, 12:49:55 AM
My big concerns lie with taxes and spending.  I don't think that tax cuts will be able to make up much of the lost revenue, especially now.  I'm also concerned that the spending cuts will have negative impacts on the most important areas like education and health care.  Unless GI Jane is seriously amended, it won't have my vote.

can you point out the clauses that cut education and health care? Cutting overlapping projects that are doing the exact same thing is only fiscally responsible. Having one committee in charge of a project over three that are all doing the same thing with different titles is what I've intended in the bill

I think Ben means--quite correctly--that the tremendous scale of tax cuts proposed here will drastically reduce government revenues necessary to fund crucial regional services such as education and health care (and law enforcement, and job training, and environmental protection, etc.). Your bill doesn't call for such cuts explicitly, but the $3 billion shortfall ($10 bil over 10--and I still think the GM was being generous considering the scope of these cuts) will require cuts in such necessary services as sure as night follows day.

Sadly, the old bromides about curing the deficit by "eliminating fraud and waste" or making it up with increased economic production doesn't pan out, as Bush clearly demonstrated.

Just to clarify, this was a very difficult bill to score. Perhaps a range would have been better than a definitive evaluation. Gotta cut me some slack during finals.

On a side note, please feel free to PM me or post in the ADH comments thread (News Unit) if you ever think my numbers are off. I have been receptive to changing things in the past if I was convinced of my own stupidity (ask NCY).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 14, 2010, 04:41:27 AM
On the final vote for A RESOLUTION CONCERNING INVASIVE SPECIES-NEED FOR A ERADICATION OF KUDZU:

The AYEs are 4, and the NAYs are 0.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.



Now, are we still debating GI JANE, or are you guys ready to bring it to a vote?  I'm still concerned about the abrupt dropping of the subsidies in Clause 7, and I know there were other concerns, but if we're deadlocked in movement on the bill, we can just bring it up for a vote now.

I have the same concern, but we need to vote now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 14, 2010, 09:30:17 AM
GI JANE
Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy.
WHEREAS: Unemployment is at 12.1% in the Mideast with over 7 million citizen unemployed and
WHEREAS: Most citizens are employed in small businesses and consumer confidence is down
BE IT RESOLVED:
SECTION 1:
1.   Any business that creates 1 new job and currently has under 15 employees will be given a $2,000 corporate tax credit effective immediately after the passage of the bill into law for one year after. A $500 corporate tax credit will be given to each corporation that creates a 2nd job. A corporation may only receive $2,000 tax credit for creating one job, or a combined $2,500 for creating two jobs.
2.   There shall be no waiting period for a business or company to start after government forms are approved.
3.   Drop the corporate tax rate to 22%.
4.   Cut capital gains tax by 4% for incomes over $500,000 and 7% for incomes under $500,000.
5.   Welfare program requires 40 hours a week of, or a combination of, education (to receive a GED), job training, work, or community service, for those that are deemed “fit to work” by the Mideast Government. Every welfare recipient deemed “able to work” must find work within two years of being enrolled in a Mideast welfare program or four years if the recipient is attending education at any level. Clause 5 will be headed by a task force appointed by the Governor, approved by the assembly which will be part of the Mideast Welfare Program.
SECTION 2:
6.   Departments and committees of government in the Mideast will eliminate overlapping responsibilities, tasks and programs to save tax-payer funding and to guarantee no business has to file or complete the same form or paperwork more than once. Each department and committee will send one representative to a weekly meeting in which they will decide who will have what specific responsibility that they alone will posses. The “Government Employment Committee” headed by an appointee by the Governor, confirmed by the Assembly will lead these meetings. These positions will be non-playable.
7.   Eliminate all subsides to farms that are deemed inactive and are paid to not produce or grow crops, livestock, etc over a 3 year period.
8.   The Mideast government must buy products and materials to complete projects that are the cheapest on the market when the material is non-essential to safety and not needed for efficiency (examples: toilet, paper clips, hammers)
9.   Projects of the Mideast government carried out by private companies must be chosen based on the cheapest, most efficient budget requested.
10.   Halt Mideast government purchase of land for one year unless in case of emergency related to public health and safety.
11.   Eliminate corporate subsidies for corporations that cannot provide a business plan or execute a plan that will bring in a profit within 3 years or a profit enough to pay off the subsidies in 9 years giving the corporation the option time for research, development, innovation and improvement or let a different, profitable, efficient company replace the failing corporation. A corporation may be exempt from clause 11 if the corporation is deemed a necessity to the Mideast’s public safety or otherwise noted and regulated by the Mideast Assembly and Governor.
12.   The Mideast “Government Employment Committee” will recommend and advise to cut jobs they deem “unneeded” or not beneficial to the Assembly, Governor or any Department or Committee to eliminate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 15, 2010, 03:02:30 AM
Voting is now open on the following piece of legislation.  This will be a 48 hour vote:

Quote
GI JANE
Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy.
WHEREAS: Unemployment is at 12.1% in the Mideast with over 7 million citizen unemployed and
WHEREAS: Most citizens are employed in small businesses and consumer confidence is down
BE IT RESOLVED:
SECTION 1:
1.   Any business that creates 1 new job and currently has under 15 employees will be given a $2,000 corporate tax credit effective immediately after the passage of the bill into law for one year after. A $500 corporate tax credit will be given to each corporation that creates a 2nd job. A corporation may only receive $2,000 tax credit for creating one job, or a combined $2,500 for creating two jobs.
2.   There shall be no waiting period for a business or company to start after government forms are approved.
3.   Drop the corporate tax rate to 22%.
4.   Cut capital gains tax by 4% for incomes over $500,000 and 7% for incomes under $500,000.
5.   Welfare program requires 40 hours a week of, or a combination of, education (to receive a GED), job training, work, or community service, for those that are deemed “fit to work” by the Mideast Government. Every welfare recipient deemed “able to work” must find work within two years of being enrolled in a Mideast welfare program or four years if the recipient is attending education at any level. Clause 5 will be headed by a task force appointed by the Governor, approved by the assembly which will be part of the Mideast Welfare Program.
SECTION 2:
6.   Departments and committees of government in the Mideast will eliminate overlapping responsibilities, tasks and programs to save tax-payer funding and to guarantee no business has to file or complete the same form or paperwork more than once. Each department and committee will send one representative to a weekly meeting in which they will decide who will have what specific responsibility that they alone will posses. The “Government Employment Committee” headed by an appointee by the Governor, confirmed by the Assembly will lead these meetings. These positions will be non-playable.
7.   Eliminate all subsides to farms that are deemed inactive and are paid to not produce or grow crops, livestock, etc over a 3 year period.
8.   The Mideast government must buy products and materials to complete projects that are the cheapest on the market when the material is non-essential to safety and not needed for efficiency (examples: toilet, paper clips, hammers)
9.   Projects of the Mideast government carried out by private companies must be chosen based on the cheapest, most efficient budget requested.
10.   Halt Mideast government purchase of land for one year unless in case of emergency related to public health and safety.
11.   Eliminate corporate subsidies for corporations that cannot provide a business plan or execute a plan that will bring in a profit within 3 years or a profit enough to pay off the subsidies in 9 years giving the corporation the option time for research, development, innovation and improvement or let a different, profitable, efficient company replace the failing corporation. A corporation may be exempt from clause 11 if the corporation is deemed a necessity to the Mideast’s public safety or otherwise noted and regulated by the Mideast Assembly and Governor.
12.   The Mideast “Government Employment Committee” will recommend and advise to cut jobs they deem “unneeded” or not beneficial to the Assembly, Governor or any Department or Committee to eliminate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 15, 2010, 11:10:19 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 15, 2010, 01:38:30 PM
NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 15, 2010, 04:13:41 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 16, 2010, 01:52:09 PM
NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 16, 2010, 05:49:17 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 16, 2010, 10:45:53 PM
On the final vote for Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy. (GI JANE):

The AYEs are 3, and the NAYs are 2.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.



The following is now brought up for debate (so don't vote on this one just yet, Happy Warrior :P ):

Quote
Mideast Abortion III Bill

Unique clause - Clause 1 of Mideast Abortion Statute II is hereby modified to read: "No abortion shall be permitted except in the case of threat of the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest".


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 16, 2010, 11:15:19 PM
I'm for this bill


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 17, 2010, 12:49:54 AM
My current budget creation bill, which will be a constitutional amendment:

Article VIII-Regional Budget

Section 1: Budgetary Procedure

1.  During each Gubernatorial term a budget shall be passed by the Assembly in regards to Regional spending
2.  This budget shall include all regional spending which is not specifically addressed and set by the present or a previous Assembly
3.  All budgets should also address tax rates in the Mideast region.

This is the present incarnation, I am planning to add to this.  At least a second section.  This is just what I have at the moment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on May 17, 2010, 07:41:21 AM
On the final vote for Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy. (GI JANE):

The AYEs are 3, and the NAYs are 2.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.

Unaffordable and goes way overboard in limiting necessary government services during the midst of a recession. I sincerely hope the Governor will veto this and return it to the Assembly for amendment into a more affordable measure.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 17, 2010, 09:15:23 AM
On the final vote for Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy. (GI JANE):

The AYEs are 3, and the NAYs are 2.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.

Unaffordable and goes way overboard in limiting necessary government services during the midst of a recession. I sincerely hope the Governor will veto this and return it to the Assembly for amendment into a more affordable measure.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 17, 2010, 05:47:48 PM
Quote
Mideast Abortion III Bill

Unique clause - Clause 1 of Mideast Abortion Statute II is hereby modified to read: "No abortion shall be permitted except in the case of threat of the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest".

Mr. Speaker, my fellow Assemblymen,

I won't be very long, since my aim is clear: I intend to erase the words "after the first trimester of the pregnancy".

If the life starts with the conception, abortion should be illegal from the beginning, with some due exceptions.

If it doesn't, we can only have two criterias: life begins with birth and, in this case, it should be possible to abort until some hours before birth; life begins when the child is "livable", but this can only be determined after the birth (when it's too late to abort), since, medically, you cannot define an "age" valid for every child.

Thanks for your attention.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on May 17, 2010, 07:12:36 PM
Quote
Mideast Abortion III Bill

Unique clause - Clause 1 of Mideast Abortion Statute II is hereby modified to read: "No abortion shall be permitted except in the case of threat of the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest".

Mr. Speaker, my fellow Assemblymen,

I won't be very long, since my aim is clear: I intend to erase the words "after the first trimester of the pregnancy".

If the life starts with the conception, abortion should be illegal from the beginning, with some due exceptions.

If it doesn't, we can only have two criterias: life begins with birth and, in this case, it should be possible to abort until some hours before birth; life begins when the child is "livable", but this can only be determined after the birth (when it's too late to abort), since, medically, you cannot define an "age" valid for every child.

Thanks for your attention.


I take it you're fine with likewise outlwaing RU-486 and other non-surgical methoids of terminating pregnancy?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 18, 2010, 01:48:52 AM
Quote
Mideast Abortion III Bill

Unique clause - Clause 1 of Mideast Abortion Statute II is hereby modified to read: "No abortion shall be permitted except in the case of threat of the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest".

Mr. Speaker, my fellow Assemblymen,

I won't be very long, since my aim is clear: I intend to erase the words "after the first trimester of the pregnancy".

If the life starts with the conception, abortion should be illegal from the beginning, with some due exceptions.

If it doesn't, we can only have two criterias: life begins with birth and, in this case, it should be possible to abort until some hours before birth; life begins when the child is "livable", but this can only be determined after the birth (when it's too late to abort), since, medically, you cannot define an "age" valid for every child.

Thanks for your attention.


I take it you're fine with likewise outlwaing RU-486 and other non-surgical methoids of terminating pregnancy?

Contrary to the way they are "sold", they are indeed abortive tools, not contraceptive ones.
I know all the arguments about "it's better to abort than to have unwanted pregnancies" and "it's better to abort in safe hospitals rather than to hide". But we already have many tools and policies that are here to help women in these difficult situations and, after births, if things don't settle, to help other parents to adopt.
And our legislation (in Atlasia and in the Mideast) is already full of measures on preventing pregnancies and easing the use of contraceptives. More can always be done, but that's a very good basis.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 19, 2010, 03:46:59 PM
Whereas no debate has taken place in the last 24 hours, the following legislation is now up for a vote.  This will be a 48 hour vote:

Quote
Mideast Abortion III Bill

Unique clause - Clause 1 of Mideast Abortion Statute II is hereby modified to read: "No abortion shall be permitted except in the case of threat of the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest".


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 19, 2010, 03:49:42 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 19, 2010, 04:30:03 PM
NAY.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 19, 2010, 04:34:12 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 19, 2010, 05:02:40 PM
ABSTAIN


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 20, 2010, 02:08:13 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on May 20, 2010, 07:41:48 AM


???


1 year to 6 months jail for any woman choosing to terminate a pregnancy for any reason other than rape or threat of her life? Plus a potential 6 digit fine?

BOOOO!!!!!!!!

EDIT: That's meant for all aye votes here, (though I'm not happy about Hap's abstaining either).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 20, 2010, 08:18:10 AM
Thank you! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 21, 2010, 05:22:26 PM
On the final vote for the Mideast Abortion III Bill:

The AYEs are 3, and the NAYs are 1, with 1 abstention.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 22, 2010, 05:24:47 PM
I urge the Governor to veto this legislation; it shows a complete disregard for a woman's fundamental right to control her reproductive organs.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on May 23, 2010, 11:59:01 AM
I urge the Governor to veto this legislation; it shows a complete disregard for a woman's fundamental right to control her reproductive organs.

^^^^ this.

Prison for inducing an early term abortion? Even with RU-486 days later when it's a zygote? C'mon!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on May 23, 2010, 02:06:28 PM
Quote
Mideast Abortion III Bill

Unique clause - Clause 1 of Mideast Abortion Statute II is hereby modified to read: "No abortion shall be permitted except in the case of threat of the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest".

This is crap. I'd rather live in the Northeast than a moralfag region.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 25, 2010, 04:17:59 PM
As one of my last pushes as a Assemblyman.... I urge the Governor to sign this piece of legislation. We do have rights, and so do those that are not yet out of the womb. We cannot simply throw their rights and lives out simply because they cannot speak against us as we all can to one another. These children can be the next doctors, lawyers, statesmen, inventors...they may be the one to cure cancer, or get the region to run on algae, or help get millions back on their feet. It is more important to care for them and protect them then others because they do not have the ability yet to do so themselves.

I believe those who have a child when it doesn't involve rape or incest should face up to their actions unless something like the life or health of the mother is at stake. There is adoption, there are families who cannot have kids and families who would want to bring in a new joy in their life. It is not fair to them that we decide to terminate their life without their consent or say.

Those who lift themselves up are the most powerful and influential figures of our time. We should not allow abortion to be used freely just because we can. We have the ability destroy lives, but we choose not to. Why should this be thought any differently? Compassion, love and the hard road create the greatest people.
I urge the Governor to let this become law.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on May 26, 2010, 09:07:26 AM
There's no compassion in sending a woman to prison for controlling her own reproduction, especially in the first trimester of pregnancy. Much more could be done to stop abortion by encouraging proper use of birth control. Just such a measure was passed last year by this Assembly. That measure was opposed by then Gov. Inks, and citizens Fab and True Con, the former two who supported passing this abortion ban. That is frankly a topsy-turvey sense of priorities.

This measure is highly inconsistent with the mantra of fighting the encroachment of "overreaching big government". Apparently that only applies to important "rights" like paying less taxes, cutting social programs, and reducing health, safety and consumer protection regulations on business, not minor little things like control of ones own uterus.

It's worth noting that Section 5 of the recently passed GI Jane bill (why that name, BTW?)
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=82716.msg2490501#msg2490501
would only increase the financial pressures on pregnant women considering abortion, thus increasing the likelihood of such a tragic outcome.

Holy Moly! I just reread that section and realized we all missed something BIG. Section 5's requirement of able-bodied "welfare" recipients (would that include regional-funded student aid? The language here doesn't exclude it, so.....) performing 40 hours a week of work, etc. only credits hours spent in education for that "to receive a GED". Not training for an associate, bachelors or advanced degree---just GED courses. Yes, the bill allows 4 years for anyone attending "any" level of education, but what about students who are still working on their bachelor's or an advanced degree after 4 years and collecting food stamps to feed their family in the process? It's not unlikely a person in that situation will need more then 4 years to obtain a bachelors, even assuming they start classes the day they begin collecting food stamps or Medicaid (that's "welfare" too), and almost guaranteed to take more than 4 years for an advanced degree.

So as it stands someone who after 4 years of collecting food stamps and/or medicaid while successfully going to college will be required to start also working full time flipping burgers or picking up trash on the highway. Unless they're willing to deprive their family of food and medical insurance, this would almost certainly require them to drop out of college--even a Master's Degree program--to join the Wal-Mart wage ghetto, or at least dramatically reduce the time left for education and greatly extend the time needed to finish that degree--if they ever finish at all.

Surely this isn't what even the proponents of this bill intended? How is it in any way to the region's benefit to so strongly push active college students towards dropping out of school to get a low wage job or do mandatory community service?  It doesn't take an economist to understand that a college degree greatly increases a person's earning ability, thus greatly increasing the taxes that person will pay throughout their life and dwarfing any minor immediate savings from kicking them off food stamps immediately.

Yet another problem here arises with the apparently unalterable requirement of "40 hours per week" of "education". Even IF this bill allowed all levels of education to count towards this requirement, the plain language seems to mandate 40 class hours per week. Every college student here knows that for every hour spent in the college classroom 2-3 hours are spent outside class studying, researching, writing, etc. Unfortunately the statute's language is rather inflexible in mandating "40 hours a week of...education" without allowance for necessary time for out-of-class work, and even class valedictorians can't handle a course schedule with 40 hours a week in class. Again, I have to believe this is simply an oversight even the bill's supporters missed.

Unfortunately the bill is passed and can't be amended until when and if vetoed by the governor and returned to the Assembly. While this was intended as comment on the recent abortion ban, it appears I've stumbled on some severe--and presumably unintended--consequences of GI Jane in the process. The Governor, I hope, will step in to return these measures to the Assembly for further work.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on May 26, 2010, 03:56:07 PM
Why won't you guys just let me leave my offiece without having to make any hard and controversial last-minute decissions? :P

I realise that since I'll be away tomorrow night, and the time for me acting on the GI Jane bill will be up tomorrow anyway, I have to come to a decission now and both the GI Jane bill, and this abortion statue if I wish to act upon them.

I'm sorry to say that I will veto the GI Jane bill. I say sorry, because I believe that some portions of the bill are very good, and would probably do a lot to help the Mideast economy. However there are a mjor problem with this bill being extreamly unfunded. I'm all for lowering taxes, especially for growing companies that could use a lot of the money they pay to the region for new jobs, but if we cut taxes, we need to have an equally big or bigger cut in the region's spending. The cuts outlined by the bill do not in any way provide a cut even nearly equal to the money the region would lose in income from this tax, and would thus if this was RL create a huge defecit in the region's already shaky budget. Since it looks likely that my successor will have to actually create a budget for this region, I think we at least need to give him a chance to being able to make that budget balanced and therefor I cannot let this bill go forward.

As to what the change to Abortion statue is concerned, it is no secret where my belifes on this issue lies. I have campaigned as a pro-lifer, I have been elected as a pro-lifer, and I thus have a responsibility to pro-lifers who voted for me, and to myself and my own beliefs, and I will not betray that by vetoing this bill.

I however stand by what I've told some of you in private, that I believe this bill might be a bit too harsh, and that it will in all likelyhood just drive women who wish to have an abortion to neighbouring regions with more liberal laws to have the procedure done, rather than actually attacking the abortion problem itself.

That being said, again I will not act to stop this law. I will leave it to the incoming Governor to make a final decission on this. No doubt, being a good friend of Tmth, I know he'll be more than happy to get the oppertunity to sign this bill himself.
   


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 26, 2010, 04:13:30 PM
That being said, again I will not act to stop this law. I will leave it to the incoming Governor to make a final decission on this. No doubt, being a good friend of Tmth, I know he'll be more than happy to get the oppertunity to sign this bill himself.

Are you sure I can do that? Wouldn't a new session have started?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on May 26, 2010, 04:21:39 PM
That being said, again I will not act to stop this law. I will leave it to the incoming Governor to make a final decission on this. No doubt, being a good friend of Tmth, I know he'll be more than happy to get the oppertunity to sign this bill himself.

Are you sure I can do that? Wouldn't a new session have started?

Yes you can do that. After a bill is passed the Governor has ten days to sign or veto it. When you take office on Friday the bill still has a few days before it automaticly goes into law, so as the Governor the bill will be on your desk when you take office. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 26, 2010, 04:54:56 PM
Yes you can do that. After a bill is passed the Governor has ten days to sign or veto it. When you take office on Friday the bill still has a few days before it automaticly goes into law, so as the Governor the bill will be on your desk when you take office. 
Okay. I had a lot more ideas for my first item of business that didn't involve signing or vetoeing a controversial piece of legislation. ;)

Also, I believe legislation becomes law after 7 days, not 10. That's what the Wiki says. If that's the case, then the GI Jane bill would go into law.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on May 26, 2010, 04:57:09 PM
Yes you can do that. After a bill is passed the Governor has ten days to sign or veto it. When you take office on Friday the bill still has a few days before it automaticly goes into law, so as the Governor the bill will be on your desk when you take office. 
Okay. I had a lot more ideas for my first item of business that didn't involve signing or vetoeing a controversial piece of legislation. ;)

Also, I believe legislation becomes law after 7 days, not 10. That's what the Wiki says. If that's the case, then the GI Jane bill would go into law.

Yes, by the look from the wiki it seems you are correct. (I was sure it was suppose to be ten days the Governor had ???)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 26, 2010, 06:20:04 PM
Yes you can do that. After a bill is passed the Governor has ten days to sign or veto it. When you take office on Friday the bill still has a few days before it automaticly goes into law, so as the Governor the bill will be on your desk when you take office. 
Okay. I had a lot more ideas for my first item of business that didn't involve signing or vetoeing a controversial piece of legislation. ;)

Also, I believe legislation becomes law after 7 days, not 10. That's what the Wiki says. If that's the case, then the GI Jane bill would go into law.

Yes, by the look from the wiki it seems you are correct. (I was sure it was suppose to be ten days the Governor had ???)

Well it was passed on the 16th. So does this mean it cannot be amended? I'd be fore Badger's  proposed changes to make the welfare portion more specific and more open to all education as it did not seem in the bill though I was intending that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: President Mitt on May 26, 2010, 06:25:41 PM
I don't really know the available legal options. But the Governor, and the Mideast Region can expect some sort of legal action from me if this legislation becomes law.

Disgusting.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 26, 2010, 06:54:51 PM
I don't really know the available legal options. But the Governor, and the Mideast Region can expect some sort of legal action from me if this legislation becomes law.

Disgusting.

Which legislation?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: President Mitt on May 26, 2010, 06:58:33 PM
I don't really know the available legal options. But the Governor, and the Mideast Region can expect some sort of legal action from me if this legislation becomes law.

Disgusting.

Which legislation?
Quote
Mideast Abortion III Bill

Unique clause - Clause 1 of Mideast Abortion Statute II is hereby modified to read: "No abortion shall be permitted except in the case of threat of the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest".

^^^^^^^^^^
This monstrosity.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 26, 2010, 07:22:21 PM
Quote
Mideast Abortion III Bill

Unique clause - Clause 1 of Mideast Abortion Statute II is hereby modified to read: "No abortion shall be permitted except in the case of threat of the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest".

^^^^^^^^^^
This monstrosity.

Indeed.  It is an awful restriction of individual liberty, and it's a terrible shame that our wonderful region has endorsed such awful legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on May 26, 2010, 08:12:22 PM
Quote
Mideast Abortion III Bill

Unique clause - Clause 1 of Mideast Abortion Statute II is hereby modified to read: "No abortion shall be permitted except in the case of threat of the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest".

^^^^^^^^^^
This monstrosity.

Indeed.  It is an awful restriction of individual liberty, and it's a terrible shame that our wonderful region has endorsed such awful legislation.

I agree.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 26, 2010, 09:03:36 PM
Article VIII-Regional Budget

Section 1: Budgetary Procedure

1.  During each Gubernatorial term a budget shall be passed by the Assembly in regards to Regional spending.
2.  This budget shall include all regional spending which is not specifically addressed and set by previous legislation.
3.  All budgets should also address tax rates in the Mideast region.
4.  Following a gubernatorial veto of any budgetary legislation, the Assembly must establish a 2/3s marjority to override this veto, just as with any legislation.
5.  No further spending may be addressed by the Assebly until the passing of the regional budget.

Section 2: Budgetary Precedence

1.  Upon passage of the first budget, all previous laws in relation to spending shall be overridden unless specifically mandated by the budget.

This is what I have at present time.  Any ideas for what I can add?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 26, 2010, 09:33:47 PM
Do we actually think it possible to get a budget through every few months? Half the assembly's time would be on it...though it is VERY much needed


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 26, 2010, 09:35:09 PM
Do we actually think it possible to get a budget through every few months? Half the assembly's time would be on it...though it is VERY much needed
I'm inclined to agree with A-Bob on this. Half of the session would be over with by the time we had it completed. I'd rather have it once a year, but twice a year would also work for me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 26, 2010, 09:39:11 PM
Do we actually think it possible to get a budget through every few months? Half the assembly's time would be on it...though it is VERY much needed
I'm inclined to agree with A-Bob on this. Half of the session would be over with by the time we had it completed. I'd rather have it once a year, but twice a year would also work for me.

I think that would be very reasonable. Now would bills past take effect in the next budget or immediately? That must be addressed


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 26, 2010, 09:55:28 PM
Do we actually think it possible to get a budget through every few months? Half the assembly's time would be on it...though it is VERY much needed
I'm inclined to agree with A-Bob on this. Half of the session would be over with by the time we had it completed. I'd rather have it once a year, but twice a year would also work for me.

I think that would be very reasonable. Now would bills past take effect in the next budget or immediately? That must be addressed

That is addressed, anything that you want included must be included in the first budget and subsequent budgets would simply be adding or taking away from the original is the intent, if you understand what I am saying.  However when addressing the idea of doing a new budget every few months, it may take up quite a bit of time but I think in the end that time is certainly worth it for such an important item as a regional budget.  Also I doubt it will take that long so long as regional officials are actively involved.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on May 26, 2010, 10:32:42 PM
Quote
Mideast Abortion III Bill

Unique clause - Clause 1 of Mideast Abortion Statute II is hereby modified to read: "No abortion shall be permitted except in the case of threat of the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest".

^^^^^^^^^^
This monstrosity.

Indeed.  It is an awful restriction of individual liberty, and it's a terrible shame that our wonderful region has endorsed such awful legislation.

*FACEPALM*

Article VIII-Regional Budget

Section 1: Budgetary Procedure

1.  During each Gubernatorial term a budget shall be passed by the Assembly in regards to Regional spending.
2.  This budget shall include all regional spending which is not specifically addressed and set by previous legislation.
3.  All budgets should also address tax rates in the Mideast region.
4.  Following a gubernatorial veto of any budgetary legislation, the Assembly must establish a 2/3s marjority to override this veto, just as with any legislation.
5.  No further spending may be addressed by the Assebly until the passing of the regional budget.

Section 2: Budgetary Precedence

1.  Upon passage of the first budget, all previous laws in relation to spending shall be overridden unless specifically mandated by the budget.

This is what I have at present time.  Any ideas for what I can add?

So far, so good.

Do we actually think it possible to get a budget through every few months? Half the assembly's time would be on it...though it is VERY much needed

"During each gubernatorial term"...every 4 months, not 2.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 26, 2010, 10:45:17 PM
Officepark: I do consider 4 a few...I just don't think we have the time to do that 3 times a year. Perhaps once every 6 months


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 26, 2010, 11:01:43 PM
Well it was passed on the 16th. So does this mean it cannot be amended? I'd be fore Badger's  proposed changes to make the welfare portion more specific and more open to all education as it did not seem in the bill though I was intending that.

Any amendments would now have to be passed as a piece of legislation of their own, which would amend the original law.  The governor would have to sign (or allow it to pass after 7 days for it to take effect).

Also, the session ends in 2 days, so we probably won't get much done.  We can have discussions, but anything introduced will have to be reintroduced after noon on Friday.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on May 27, 2010, 12:26:27 AM
Do not mandate a budget. At the very least, make a budget first.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on May 27, 2010, 07:53:46 AM
Well it was passed on the 16th. So does this mean it cannot be amended? I'd be fore Badger's  proposed changes to make the welfare portion more specific and more open to all education as it did not seem in the bill though I was intending that.

Any amendments would now have to be passed as a piece of legislation of their own, which would amend the original law.  The governor would have to sign (or allow it to pass after 7 days for it to take effect).

Also, the session ends in 2 days, so we probably won't get much done.  We can have discussions, but anything introduced will have to be reintroduced after noon on Friday.

Inks is right. I would strongly encourage the Assembly to significantly modify the overall structure of the bill which currently is, as the Governor noted, is unaffordable at this time and simultaneously places undue pressure on budget for education, health care, job training, etc in exchange for corporate tax cuts. Swed is no socialist by any means, and if he had caught the correct pocket veto time (Bad Governor! No lutefisk for you! >:() it would be in front of Assembly now to correct that error.

BTW, there's an additional manner of fighting the Abortion Ban in conjunction with (rather then instead of) litigation. And that will be coming soon in a nearby thread.....

EDIT: Done! Please go to the following links and sign both petitions to place repeal of this measure on the ballot for region-wide vote. Thank you!

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=117437.msg2509517#msg2509517

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=117438.0


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on May 28, 2010, 01:26:20 PM
On the final vote for the Mideast Abortion III Bill:

The AYEs are 3, and the NAYs are 1, with 1 abstention.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.

Last day for action here, Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on May 28, 2010, 05:17:56 PM
I'd like to bring to the Assembly's attention a rather glaring loophole in need of closing in the Regional Constitution's provision for holding referendums on newly passed laws (see paragraph 6):

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Third_Constitution#Section_2:_Legislation

Note the first sentence allows a petition for referendum only if: "Should the Assembly pass and the Governor sign legislation..." (emphasis added). It makes no allowance for when a bill on the governor's desk is automatically enacted into law if the governor simply declines to sign or veto legislation for seven days, pursuant to Paragraph 4 of this section.

This loophole means a governor can avoid a referendum on any legislation simply by waiting a week instead of formally signing the bill. For example, Tmth could've thwarted a referendum simply by not signing the abortion bill today. There's still an option under Article III, Section 4, to petition for an Initiative vote that could repeal legislation, but that requires a far higher burden of signatures from 25% of all registered Mideast voters. More importantly, its clear the Referendum provision was designed to make it reasonably simple to put controversial legislation up for popular vote, and this loophole is contrary such aims.

If not corrected eventually some governor will abuse this loophole to avoid a regional vote on controversial legislation. I urge the Assembly to introduce and pass a constitutional amendment allowing the right to petition for referendum on all legislation enacted into law. Thank you.

That said, here's another point I don't have a firm opinion on, but believe still bears mentioning. This provision was drafted when the Mideast was much smaller in population. Do will still want to require merely 4 persons' objections to hold a referendum, or do we maybe want to slightly increase that number?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 28, 2010, 05:49:13 PM
I'd like to bring to the Assembly's attention a rather glaring loophole in need of closing in the Regional Constitution's provision for holding referendums on newly passed laws (see paragraph 6):

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Third_Constitution#Section_2:_Legislation

Note the first sentence allows a petition for referendum only if: "Should the Assembly pass and the Governor sign legislation..." (emphasis added). It makes no allowance for when a bill on the governor's desk is automatically enacted into law if the governor simply declines to sign or veto legislation for seven days, pursuant to Paragraph 4 of this section.

This loophole means a governor can avoid a referendum on any legislation simply by waiting a week instead of formally signing the bill. For example, Tmth could've thwarted a referendum simply by not signing the abortion bill today. There's still an option under Article III, Section 4, to petition for an Initiative vote that could repeal legislation, but that requires a far higher burden of signatures from 25% of all registered Mideast voters. More importantly, its clear the Referendum provision was designed to make it reasonably simple to put controversial legislation up for popular vote, and this loophole is contrary such aims.

If not corrected eventually some governor will abuse this loophole to avoid a regional vote on controversial legislation. I urge the Assembly to introduce and pass a constitutional amendment allowing the right to petition for referendum on all legislation enacted into law. Thank you.

That said, here's another point I don't have a firm opinion on, but believe still bears mentioning. This provision was drafted when the Mideast was much smaller in population. Do will still want to require merely 4 persons' objections to hold a referendum, or do we maybe want to slightly increase that number?
I just noticed that earlier today when I was contemplating what to do. Something certainly needs to be done fairly soon on it. Also, I thought it said 10%, not 4 members? I could be thinking of something different... Scratch that, I was wrong...;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: hawkeye59 on May 28, 2010, 06:26:55 PM

Animal Protection Act
1. The Mideast recognizes animal cruelty as the following: a. Wilfull neglect b. Malicious killing c. Beatings d. Animal Fighting ie Dog fight, cock fight for sport.

2. The Mideast doesn't recognize the following as animal cruelty: a. Hunting for food or sport as regulated by local environmental protection laws b. Killing Animals for food.

3 No person shall:

   (a) Torture an animal, deprive one of necessary sustenance, unnecessarily or cruelly beat, needlessly mutilate or kill, or impound or confine an animal without supplying it during such confinement with a sufficient quantity of good wholesome food and water;

   (b) Impound or confine an animal without affording it, during such confinement, access to shelter from wind, rain, snow, or excessive direct sunlight if it can reasonably be expected that the animals would otherwise become sick or in some other way suffer. Division (3)(b) of this section does not apply to animals impounded or confined immediately prior to slaughter.

   (c) Carry or convey an animal in a cruel or inhuman[e] manner;

4. Any person under the age of 18, who is found guilty of animal abuse is required to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling. If found sane said person shall serve a maximum of 1 year in juvenile jail. Parents or Guardians of said person under 18, are liable for all cost for the evaluation/counseling/fine.

5. If a person over the age of 18 commits animal abuse, said person shall serve a maximum of 1 year in jail and/or 5,000 dollars fine.

6. Except as otherwise permitted by Paragraph 7 below, the use of animals for testing of non-medicinal products related to ordinary grooming and care including, but not limited to cosmetics, non medicinal soaps, perfumes, colognes, non medicinal shampoos, conditioners, toothpastes, mouthwashes, and other toiletries not specifically prescibed by a licensed medical practitioner, is banned.

7. A producer of the items described in Section 6 above may apply to the Atlasian Regional Department of Commerce for a licensed exemption from this rule if the following can be demonstrated:

a) The product or substance in question cannot be feasibly tested or made safe in accordance with existing food and drug testing regulations for human use or consumption by using methods excluding the use of non-animal testing; or

b) Such animal testing procedures are certified by the Department of Commerce to not cause undue, prolonged pain or suffering of the tested animals, and that any animals ultimately exterminated as a result of such testing are specifically bred and raised for purpose of such testing rather than wild caught.

c) For determination of "feasible" pursuant to section 7) (a) above, a non-animal testing procedure that does not raise the estimated wholesale cost of producing said item by over 50% is presumed feasible.

8. Nothing in this Act shall be construed to limit or prohibit the use of animal testing as otherwise permitted by law in legitimate scientific or medical research not directly related to the commercial development of such products described in Section 6 above.

9. An organization, business or individual proprietor who violates Section 6 above may be fined up to $500k $500,000 per violation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 29, 2010, 01:09:41 AM
The whatever session of the Assembly is adjourned (I think 10th, but I'm too lazy to look it up).

The new session of the Assembly is now called to order.  Please swear yourselves in.  :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 29, 2010, 06:17:47 AM

Animal Protection Act
1. The Mideast recognizes animal cruelty as the following: a. Wilfull neglect b. Malicious killing c. Beatings d. Animal Fighting ie Dog fight, cock fight for sport.

2. The Mideast doesn't recognize the following as animal cruelty: a. Hunting for food or sport as regulated by local environmental protection laws b. Killing Animals for food.

3 No person shall:

   (a) Torture an animal, deprive one of necessary sustenance, unnecessarily or cruelly beat, needlessly mutilate or kill, or impound or confine an animal without supplying it during such confinement with a sufficient quantity of good wholesome food and water;

   (b) Impound or confine an animal without affording it, during such confinement, access to shelter from wind, rain, snow, or excessive direct sunlight if it can reasonably be expected that the animals would otherwise become sick or in some other way suffer. Division (3)(b) of this section does not apply to animals impounded or confined immediately prior to slaughter.

   (c) Carry or convey an animal in a cruel or inhuman[e] manner;

4. Any person under the age of 18, who is found guilty of animal abuse is required to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling. If found sane said person shall serve a maximum of 1 year in juvenile jail. Parents or Guardians of said person under 18, are liable for all cost for the evaluation/counseling/fine.

5. If a person over the age of 18 commits animal abuse, said person shall serve a maximum of 1 year in jail and/or 5,000 dollars fine.

6. Except as otherwise permitted by Paragraph 7 below, the use of animals for testing of non-medicinal products related to ordinary grooming and care including, but not limited to cosmetics, non medicinal soaps, perfumes, colognes, non medicinal shampoos, conditioners, toothpastes, mouthwashes, and other toiletries not specifically prescibed by a licensed medical practitioner, is banned.

7. A producer of the items described in Section 6 above may apply to the Atlasian Regional Department of Commerce for a licensed exemption from this rule if the following can be demonstrated:

a) The product or substance in question cannot be feasibly tested or made safe in accordance with existing food and drug testing regulations for human use or consumption by using methods excluding the use of non-animal testing; or

b) Such animal testing procedures are certified by the Department of Commerce to not cause undue, prolonged pain or suffering of the tested animals, and that any animals ultimately exterminated as a result of such testing are specifically bred and raised for purpose of such testing rather than wild caught.

c) For determination of "feasible" pursuant to section 7) (a) above, a non-animal testing procedure that does not raise the estimated wholesale cost of producing said item by over 50% is presumed feasible.

8. Nothing in this Act shall be construed to limit or prohibit the use of animal testing as otherwise permitted by law in legitimate scientific or medical research not directly related to the commercial development of such products described in Section 6 above.

9. An organization, business or individual proprietor who violates Section 6 above may be fined up to $500k $500,000 per violation.


What an irony to see this proposal (I've nothing against it, I'm in favour of it) and especially clause 5, in the midst of the "big debate" on so-called "monstrous" new Mideast Abortion Statute...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 29, 2010, 08:35:17 AM
What an irony to see this proposal (I've nothing against it, I'm in favour of it) and especially clause 5, in the midst of the "big debate" on so-called "monstrous" new Mideast Abortion Statute...
My friend, I requested that Assemblyman Hawkeye introduce this bill. There was a bill passed in the Atlasian Senate that requires each region to pass this bill. Otherwise, they lose funding.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 29, 2010, 12:09:08 PM
Oh, no problem...
I'm a bit fed up with this game and so, it was a good way to leave. At least, the Mideast is the most "active" region, now ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 30, 2010, 08:38:45 AM
I'd like to announce that I will be running for Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 30, 2010, 10:05:14 AM
I'd like to announce that I will be running for Speaker of the Assembly.

I hope you get it. You will be a great speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 30, 2010, 12:28:35 PM
Inks.LWC steps up to the the podium to address an almost empty chamber.

My fellow Assemblymen, Mideasterners, it is in a bittersweet moment that I now announce my resignation from this great Assembly.  I have been appointed to represent our great region in the nation's capital.

I wish this Assembly the best as they accomplish great things here.  While I won't be voting on it, I encourage the Assembly to pass a regional budget, and I will always be willing to give suggestions if my advice is wanted.

My time here has been great, and I wish all of you the best.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Devilman88 on May 30, 2010, 12:51:10 PM
Inks.LWC steps up to the the podium to address an almost empty chamber.

My fellow Assemblymen, Mideasterners, it is in a bittersweet moment that I now announce my resignation from this great Assembly.  I have been appointed to represent our great region in the nation's capital.

I wish this Assembly the best as they accomplish great things here.  While I won't be voting on it, I encourage the Assembly to pass a regional budget, and I will always be willing to give suggestions if my advice is wanted.

My time here has been great, and I wish all of you the best.

I wish you best of luck in the Senate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 30, 2010, 07:28:01 PM
HW has my support for Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 31, 2010, 05:14:13 PM
Shall we vote for Speaker now that the old one is no longer in the Assembly?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on May 31, 2010, 05:38:01 PM
Shall we vote for Speaker now that the old one is no longer in the Assembly?

I'd argue that we just elect HappyWarrior by acclamation, as he's the only one to show any interest.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 31, 2010, 10:08:12 PM
I will be leaving tomorrow morning for a week.

My vote goes to officepark unless HW is the only candidate in which I vote for him by acclamation


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on June 01, 2010, 12:53:54 AM
I thank A-bob for encouraging me to run for speaker (it is the first time that I have ever expressed interest in the position), but:

1. it's obvious that I'd lose 3-2 to HappyWarrior, and
2. I don't actually have any objections to having HappyWarrior as speaker.

So, I must say that I won't run, and that I will let HappyWarrior be in charge for this session.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on June 01, 2010, 08:40:24 AM
Excellent; as Dean, if I am allowed, I'll declare HappyWarrior the new Speaker by unanimous decision, and turn things over to him.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 01, 2010, 10:55:01 PM
Thank you everyone for making me the new Mideast Speaker of the Assembly.  Now I believe the first order of business is that any bills people want considered must be submitted or resubmitted if they were submitted in the previous session.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 04, 2010, 08:21:15 AM
Is anyone going to post their bills?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: hawkeye59 on June 04, 2010, 05:39:24 PM

Animal Protection Act
1. The Mideast recognizes animal cruelty as the following: a. Wilfull neglect b. Malicious killing c. Beatings d. Animal Fighting ie Dog fight, cock fight for sport.

2. The Mideast doesn't recognize the following as animal cruelty: a. Hunting for food or sport as regulated by local environmental protection laws b. Killing Animals for food.

3 No person shall:

   (a) Torture an animal, deprive one of necessary sustenance, unnecessarily or cruelly beat, needlessly mutilate or kill, or impound or confine an animal without supplying it during such confinement with a sufficient quantity of good wholesome food and water;

   (b) Impound or confine an animal without affording it, during such confinement, access to shelter from wind, rain, snow, or excessive direct sunlight if it can reasonably be expected that the animals would otherwise become sick or in some other way suffer. Division (3)(b) of this section does not apply to animals impounded or confined immediately prior to slaughter.

   (c) Carry or convey an animal in a cruel or inhuman[e] manner;

4. Any person under the age of 18, who is found guilty of animal abuse is required to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling. If found sane said person shall serve a maximum of 1 year in juvenile jail. Parents or Guardians of said person under 18, are liable for all cost for the evaluation/counseling/fine.

5. If a person over the age of 18 commits animal abuse, said person shall serve a maximum of 1 year in jail and/or 5,000 dollars fine.

6. Except as otherwise permitted by Paragraph 7 below, the use of animals for testing of non-medicinal products related to ordinary grooming and care including, but not limited to cosmetics, non medicinal soaps, perfumes, colognes, non medicinal shampoos, conditioners, toothpastes, mouthwashes, and other toiletries not specifically prescibed by a licensed medical practitioner, is banned.

7. A producer of the items described in Section 6 above may apply to the Atlasian Regional Department of Commerce for a licensed exemption from this rule if the following can be demonstrated:

a) The product or substance in question cannot be feasibly tested or made safe in accordance with existing food and drug testing regulations for human use or consumption by using methods excluding the use of non-animal testing; or

b) Such animal testing procedures are certified by the Department of Commerce to not cause undue, prolonged pain or suffering of the tested animals, and that any animals ultimately exterminated as a result of such testing are specifically bred and raised for purpose of such testing rather than wild caught.

c) For determination of "feasible" pursuant to section 7) (a) above, a non-animal testing procedure that does not raise the estimated wholesale cost of producing said item by over 50% is presumed feasible.

8. Nothing in this Act shall be construed to limit or prohibit the use of animal testing as otherwise permitted by law in legitimate scientific or medical research not directly related to the commercial development of such products described in Section 6 above.

9. An organization, business or individual proprietor who violates Section 6 above may be fined up to $500k $500,000 per violation.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on June 04, 2010, 05:56:31 PM
Hey guys,

Tmth sent me this message to you guys via AIM:

Quote
Dear Assembly,    

I am extremely sorry that I cannot be with you right now. Someone apparently has hacked onto the Atlas site and has blocked certain IP addresses from entering the site, mine being one of them. Dave is working on the problem. Hopefully I can be back with you all shortly, and we can continue to have a successful legislative session. Once again, I am extremely sorry for this series of unfortunate events, and hopefully it can be resolved as soon as possible.     

Thanks,     
Governor Tmthforu94 :) 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 04, 2010, 06:06:50 PM
Well I guess we can now start debate on the Animal Protection Act and probably after 48 hours I will bring it up to a vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on June 04, 2010, 07:48:52 PM
I'll start the debate then.

Don't we already have an animal protection act on the books? And if so, what is new in this bill?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on June 04, 2010, 09:51:00 PM
My big concern, which has already been discussed, are the apparently draconian punishments the bill proscribes.  I'd need to see them significantly reduced before I would consider voting for this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 04, 2010, 09:56:01 PM
Hello, my friends! I am dearly sorry for my absence; it wasn't intended.

I've found a way to be able to get on here now, thank heavens, though it is running extremely slow. For the time being, I should be able to assume my responsibility as Governor. If something comes up again, however, I will be sure to make Speaker Happy Warrior know via Facebook. :)

Thank you all for your patience. Hopefully this all can be resolved soon! :)

Isaac


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 05, 2010, 01:25:43 PM
My two cents on the animal protection bill...
It's something we certainly must get passed. We lose funding if we don't. I strongly support the bill itself. Obviously, since I co-authored it with Badger in the Senate. ;) I strong encourage the Assembly to pass this piece of legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on June 05, 2010, 06:51:58 PM
Also, I hope that we're not recognizing killing insects or pests as animal cruelty?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on June 07, 2010, 07:57:02 AM
Bump.

Maybe we can clear up this problem in time to put the constitutional change on the ballot the same day as the abortion ban referendum (in just under two weeks)?


I'd like to bring to the Assembly's attention a rather glaring loophole in need of closing in the Regional Constitution's provision for holding referendums on newly passed laws (see paragraph 6):

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Third_Constitution#Section_2:_Legislation

Note the first sentence allows a petition for referendum only if: "Should the Assembly pass and the Governor sign legislation..." (emphasis added). It makes no allowance for when a bill on the governor's desk is automatically enacted into law if the governor simply declines to sign or veto legislation for seven days, pursuant to Paragraph 4 of this section.

This loophole means a governor can avoid a referendum on any legislation simply by waiting a week instead of formally signing the bill. For example, Tmth could've thwarted a referendum simply by not signing the abortion bill today. There's still an option under Article III, Section 4, to petition for an Initiative vote that could repeal legislation, but that requires a far higher burden of signatures from 25% of all registered Mideast voters. More importantly, its clear the Referendum provision was designed to make it reasonably simple to put controversial legislation up for popular vote, and this loophole is contrary such aims.

If not corrected eventually some governor will abuse this loophole to avoid a regional vote on controversial legislation. I urge the Assembly to introduce and pass a constitutional amendment allowing the right to petition for referendum on all legislation enacted into law. Thank you.

That said, here's another point I don't have a firm opinion on, but believe still bears mentioning. This provision was drafted when the Mideast was much smaller in population. Do will still want to require merely 4 persons' objections to hold a referendum, or do we maybe want to slightly increase that number?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 07, 2010, 08:10:18 AM
Would everyone be open to beginning the vote now on the animal protection act?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 07, 2010, 08:24:46 AM
Bump.
Maybe we can clear up this problem in time to put the constitutional change on the ballot the same day as the abortion ban referendum (in just under two weeks)?
Smart thinking, Badger.
Here's a sketch of what I'd imagine it looking like. Something else that has been brought up, which I agree with, is that we should consider upping the amount of citizens it takes to force a public referendum. We could either do a certain number of people or a percentage. Having a percentage would be able to adjust to our changing population, and we wouldn't have to worry about amending it probably ever again. Having a set number would make things slightly less complicated and more "stable", but there's a chance we'd have to come back and amend it again. For the amendment below, I went ahead and put 20% of Mideast citizens, but it's whatever the Assembly feels most comfortable with.

For example, 20% of our current population is 8.4 voters. I assume we'd always round up, so a referendum would require 9 signatures. I think this would be the best way, personally.

Quote
Clause 6 under Section 2 in Article III of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:
6.   Should legislation go into law and 20% of citizens or more publicly protest the measure in either the Mideast Assembly or a separate thread, a public referendum shall be held on that legislation. All public referendums shall come to a full vote of the citizens of the Mideast in a special Voting Booth to be administered in accordance with Article IV of this Constitution. Voting shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the third Thursday of the month and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 48 hours after beginning.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on June 07, 2010, 12:47:39 PM
Also, something I noticed that needs fixing is the Election law - we only specifically outline what to do for a tie up to the 3rd Assembly seat, and not for the 4th or 5th (since, when the law was created, we didn't have a 4th or 5th).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on June 07, 2010, 03:15:24 PM
Would everyone be open to beginning the vote now on the animal protection act?

No, at least not until after my questions are taken care of. Also, I think we need to consider what ben is saying, too.

Also, we ought to address what Inks said. I will draft legislation on this soon.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on June 07, 2010, 03:20:07 PM
One more thing - I know there's been unhappiness about the method we use to elect Assemblymen.  If yall were planning on changing that completely, don't waste time correcting the error that I pointed out earlier, but rather use this time as a time to change the election process as a whole.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 07, 2010, 04:48:21 PM
My big concern, which has already been discussed, are the apparently draconian punishments the bill proscribes.  I'd need to see them significantly reduced before I would consider voting for this.
If we reduced it, we wouldn't be following the bill passed in the Senate. And if we don't follow that bill, we'll lose funding.
I personally find the punishments to be quite fair. They aren't ridiculous, but they are stern enough to encourage people not to abuse animals.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on June 08, 2010, 12:12:18 PM
Also, something I noticed that needs fixing is the Election law - we only specifically outline what to do for a tie up to the 3rd Assembly seat, and not for the 4th or 5th (since, when the law was created, we didn't have a 4th or 5th).

Are you sure, Inks? I'm too busy to look this up right now, but I thought we'd made a change to the statutory and constitutional language after the Assembly was expanded to 5 seats. IIRC it was pointed out just days before our first 5 seat election.

If correct, this obviously needs changed. Again, maybe this can be addressed in time to be placed on the ballot with the other pending measures.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on June 08, 2010, 12:26:26 PM
Also, something I noticed that needs fixing is the Election law - we only specifically outline what to do for a tie up to the 3rd Assembly seat, and not for the 4th or 5th (since, when the law was created, we didn't have a 4th or 5th).

Are you sure, Inks? I'm too busy to look this up right now, but I thought we'd made a change to the statutory and constitutional language after the Assembly was expanded to 5 seats. IIRC it was pointed out just days before our first 5 seat election.

If correct, this obviously needs changed. Again, maybe this can be addressed in time to be placed on the ballot with the other pending measures.

Yes.  That legislation was for procedures for counting the votes of the 4th and 5th spot.  This is for tie-breaking the 4th/5th spot.  The only reason I noticed it is because we had a potential tie-breaking event in this past election.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on June 08, 2010, 12:53:44 PM
Also, something I noticed that needs fixing is the Election law - we only specifically outline what to do for a tie up to the 3rd Assembly seat, and not for the 4th or 5th (since, when the law was created, we didn't have a 4th or 5th).

Are you sure, Inks? I'm too busy to look this up right now, but I thought we'd made a change to the statutory and constitutional language after the Assembly was expanded to 5 seats. IIRC it was pointed out just days before our first 5 seat election.

If correct, this obviously needs changed. Again, maybe this can be addressed in time to be placed on the ballot with the other pending measures.

Yes.  That legislation was for procedures for counting the votes of the 4th and 5th spot.  This is for tie-breaking the 4th/5th spot.  The only reason I noticed it is because we had a potential tie-breaking event in this past election.

Good catch, Senator.

Again, as this would seem to be an easy and non-partisan fix, hopefully the Assembly can get a correction passed in time for the Mideast Amendment-pallooza 2010 vote coming shortly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: hawkeye59 on June 08, 2010, 07:08:18 PM
Would I have still been elected?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on June 08, 2010, 07:24:01 PM

No - this error didn't affect the outcome.  And even if it had, in a court of law, it could've easily been argued that the intent would be to carry over the tie-breaking procedures used for the 1st-3rd place spots.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 10, 2010, 06:39:29 PM
The Animal Protection Bill, having not been debated for more than 48 hours is hereby brought to a vote:

AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on June 10, 2010, 06:42:44 PM
Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 10, 2010, 07:54:38 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on June 10, 2010, 08:20:42 PM
Abstain


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: hawkeye59 on June 10, 2010, 08:36:09 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 11, 2010, 07:21:47 AM
By a vote of four in the affirmative, 0 in the negative, and one abstention this bill is passed and hereby sent to the Governor for his signature or veto.

Animal Protection Act

1. The Mideast recognizes animal cruelty as the following: a. Wilfull neglect b. Malicious killing c. Beatings d. Animal Fighting ie Dog fight, cock fight for sport.

2. The Mideast doesn't recognize the following as animal cruelty: a. Hunting for food or sport as regulated by local environmental protection laws b. Killing Animals for food.

3 No person shall:

   (a) Torture an animal, deprive one of necessary sustenance, unnecessarily or cruelly beat, needlessly mutilate or kill, or impound or confine an animal without supplying it during such confinement with a sufficient quantity of good wholesome food and water;

   (b) Impound or confine an animal without affording it, during such confinement, access to shelter from wind, rain, snow, or excessive direct sunlight if it can reasonably be expected that the animals would otherwise become sick or in some other way suffer. Division (3)(b) of this section does not apply to animals impounded or confined immediately prior to slaughter.

   (c) Carry or convey an animal in a cruel or inhuman[e] manner;

4. Any person under the age of 18, who is found guilty of animal abuse is required to undergo psychological evaluation to determine if the child needs individual or family counseling. If found sane said person shall serve a maximum of 1 year in juvenile jail. Parents or Guardians of said person under 18, are liable for all cost for the evaluation/counseling/fine.

5. If a person over the age of 18 commits animal abuse, said person shall serve a maximum of 1 year in jail and/or 5,000 dollars fine.

6. Except as otherwise permitted by Paragraph 7 below, the use of animals for testing of non-medicinal products related to ordinary grooming and care including, but not limited to cosmetics, non medicinal soaps, perfumes, colognes, non medicinal shampoos, conditioners, toothpastes, mouthwashes, and other toiletries not specifically prescibed by a licensed medical practitioner, is banned.

7. A producer of the items described in Section 6 above may apply to the Atlasian Regional Department of Commerce for a licensed exemption from this rule if the following can be demonstrated:

a) The product or substance in question cannot be feasibly tested or made safe in accordance with existing food and drug testing regulations for human use or consumption by using methods excluding the use of non-animal testing; or

b) Such animal testing procedures are certified by the Department of Commerce to not cause undue, prolonged pain or suffering of the tested animals, and that any animals ultimately exterminated as a result of such testing are specifically bred and raised for purpose of such testing rather than wild caught.

c) For determination of "feasible" pursuant to section 7) (a) above, a non-animal testing procedure that does not raise the estimated wholesale cost of producing said item by over 50% is presumed feasible.

8. Nothing in this Act shall be construed to limit or prohibit the use of animal testing as otherwise permitted by law in legitimate scientific or medical research not directly related to the commercial development of such products described in Section 6 above.

9. An organization, business or individual proprietor who violates Section 6 above may be fined up to $500k $500,000 per violation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 11, 2010, 04:16:20 PM
HW, are you still working on our regional budget creation bill? I'm not being pushy, just still wanted to make sure we are going to be pushing for a real budget.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 12, 2010, 09:06:03 AM
HW, are you still working on our regional budget creation bill? I'm not being pushy, just still wanted to make sure we are going to be pushing for a real budget.

Mostly my planned bill is the one a few pages back.  Just waiting for the right moment to introduce it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 17, 2010, 04:48:15 PM
Quick Note:
I managed to get on the computer to submit the voting booth. ;) I might not be on to close the voting booth, but that shouldn't matter. It'll be taken care of Sunday night for sure.

Take Care,
Governor Isaac :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 19, 2010, 05:16:33 AM
Since it seems that for now nobody else has any bills to submit I will submit this for the Governor.  There will now be 48 hours for debate.


Weighted Grades Amendment
Whereas: The Mideast government feels we need to take extra steps to encourage high school students to take challenging courses so that they may reach their full potnetial.
Be It Resolved:
Section One:
1. All public and charter schools in the Mideast region shall conform to a 4.0 grading scale system.
Section Two:
1. For every advanced placement course (AP) or honor course taken by a Mideast student in grades 9-12, student shall have an additional .25 to their overall GPA for the semester, assuming they receive a grade above C in the course.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on June 19, 2010, 10:50:40 AM
Actually, I'd amend it so that in each AP course, the GPA for that class is increased by 1.0 points as long as they get a C, so that someone getting an A in AP Bio would have a 5.0, a B would have a 4.0, and a C would have a 3.0


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 19, 2010, 02:13:46 PM
If you could just write up that sort of amendment Ben I would happily accept it as friendly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 19, 2010, 02:46:06 PM
Actually, I'd amend it so that in each AP course, the GPA for that class is increased by 1.0 points as long as they get a C, so that someone getting an A in AP Bio would have a 5.0, a B would have a 4.0, and a C would have a 3.0

Sounds good


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on June 19, 2010, 02:57:00 PM
I think this is written correctly:

"Section 2.1 shall be amended to read:
For every Mideast student in grades 9-12, student shall have an extra 1.0 points added to each end of year grade in every Advanced Placement (AP) class in which they have received an end of year grade of at least a C."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 19, 2010, 04:35:19 PM
Shouldn't it also only be necessary that if we are boosting GPAs for AP classes, we make sure every student as the ability to take an AP class? Either at their school, or a near by school that they can go to for just a class in the day.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on June 19, 2010, 04:41:50 PM
Shouldn't it also only be necessary that if we are boosting GPAs for AP classes, we make sure every student as the ability to take an AP class? Either at their school, or a near by school that they can go to for just a class in the day.

I would welcome an amendment requiring every school to offer AP classes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 19, 2010, 05:25:45 PM
Shouldn't it also only be necessary that if we are boosting GPAs for AP classes, we make sure every student as the ability to take an AP class? Either at their school, or a near by school that they can go to for just a class in the day.

I would welcome an amendment requiring every school to offer AP classes.

but how can we fund this though? Getting enough teachers for all these classes? Perhaps if we just made sure somehow that between a a group of two or three schools they cover everything?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on June 19, 2010, 07:25:04 PM
but how can we fund this though? Getting enough teachers for all these classes? Perhaps if we just made sure somehow that between a a group of two or three schools they cover everything?

It's simple: cut down the number of intensified classes, and turn them into AP's, or turn all IB classes into AP's, etc.  The teachers are there, we just need to alter the classes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 20, 2010, 08:28:12 PM
but how can we fund this though? Getting enough teachers for all these classes? Perhaps if we just made sure somehow that between a a group of two or three schools they cover everything?

It's simple: cut down the number of intensified classes, and turn them into AP's, or turn all IB classes into AP's, etc.  The teachers are there, we just need to alter the classes.
I would like to point out that there are at least 10, maybe more AP courses high schools can offer. It would be extremely costly if we required every school to offer all of them. My suggestion would be to require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, but not all of them.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 20, 2010, 08:49:25 PM
but how can we fund this though? Getting enough teachers for all these classes? Perhaps if we just made sure somehow that between a a group of two or three schools they cover everything?

It's simple: cut down the number of intensified classes, and turn them into AP's, or turn all IB classes into AP's, etc.  The teachers are there, we just need to alter the classes.
I would like to point out that there are at least 10, maybe more AP courses high schools can offer. It would be extremely costly if we required every school to offer all of them. My suggestion would be to require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, but not all of them.


that's what we're working on, making sure between at least 3 nearby schools, students can reach every AP class. The 3 schools also wouldn't have to be in a set trio. Like School A could share classes with B and C, and B could share classes with A and D etc.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 20, 2010, 08:54:37 PM
but how can we fund this though? Getting enough teachers for all these classes? Perhaps if we just made sure somehow that between a a group of two or three schools they cover everything?

It's simple: cut down the number of intensified classes, and turn them into AP's, or turn all IB classes into AP's, etc.  The teachers are there, we just need to alter the classes.
I would like to point out that there are at least 10, maybe more AP courses high schools can offer. It would be extremely costly if we required every school to offer all of them. My suggestion would be to require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, but not all of them.


that's what we're working on, making sure between at least 3 nearby schools, students can reach every AP class. The 3 schools also wouldn't have to be in a set trio. Like School A could share classes with B and C, and B could share classes with A and D etc.
That would be a possibility, though it would cost money unless we required that the students find their own transportation to another school, which I'm not sure is the best way. What if a school was about 30 minutes, or even an hour away from another school? I'm sure that somewhere in this region, that is the case. How will we be able to afford that?
Personally, I think the best option right now, given our economic struggles, is to just require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, my suggestion being between 2-4. Maybe in the future we could expand.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 21, 2010, 02:16:45 PM
but how can we fund this though? Getting enough teachers for all these classes? Perhaps if we just made sure somehow that between a a group of two or three schools they cover everything?

It's simple: cut down the number of intensified classes, and turn them into AP's, or turn all IB classes into AP's, etc.  The teachers are there, we just need to alter the classes.
I would like to point out that there are at least 10, maybe more AP courses high schools can offer. It would be extremely costly if we required every school to offer all of them. My suggestion would be to require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, but not all of them.


that's what we're working on, making sure between at least 3 nearby schools, students can reach every AP class. The 3 schools also wouldn't have to be in a set trio. Like School A could share classes with B and C, and B could share classes with A and D etc.
That would be a possibility, though it would cost money unless we required that the students find their own transportation to another school, which I'm not sure is the best way. What if a school was about 30 minutes, or even an hour away from another school? I'm sure that somewhere in this region, that is the case. How will we be able to afford that?
Personally, I think the best option right now, given our economic struggles, is to just require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, my suggestion being between 2-4. Maybe in the future we could expand.
2-4 AP classes i nothing, that's why the bill I think was brought up in the first place...to make sure students can get more AP classes then that, especially say if all 4 are in science (many times this is true) and they are just really good at social studies and english


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 21, 2010, 03:05:14 PM
but how can we fund this though? Getting enough teachers for all these classes? Perhaps if we just made sure somehow that between a a group of two or three schools they cover everything?

It's simple: cut down the number of intensified classes, and turn them into AP's, or turn all IB classes into AP's, etc.  The teachers are there, we just need to alter the classes.
I would like to point out that there are at least 10, maybe more AP courses high schools can offer. It would be extremely costly if we required every school to offer all of them. My suggestion would be to require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, but not all of them.


that's what we're working on, making sure between at least 3 nearby schools, students can reach every AP class. The 3 schools also wouldn't have to be in a set trio. Like School A could share classes with B and C, and B could share classes with A and D etc.
That would be a possibility, though it would cost money unless we required that the students find their own transportation to another school, which I'm not sure is the best way. What if a school was about 30 minutes, or even an hour away from another school? I'm sure that somewhere in this region, that is the case. How will we be able to afford that?
Personally, I think the best option right now, given our economic struggles, is to just require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, my suggestion being between 2-4. Maybe in the future we could expand.
2-4 AP classes i nothing, that's why the bill I think was brought up in the first place...to make sure students can get more AP classes then that, especially say if all 4 are in science (many times this is true) and they are just really good at social studies and english
Incorrect. The purpose of this bill was to encourage high school students to take more challenging courses and reward them for it. I think I would know, given that I wrote the bill. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 21, 2010, 04:48:56 PM
but how can we fund this though? Getting enough teachers for all these classes? Perhaps if we just made sure somehow that between a a group of two or three schools they cover everything?

It's simple: cut down the number of intensified classes, and turn them into AP's, or turn all IB classes into AP's, etc.  The teachers are there, we just need to alter the classes.
I would like to point out that there are at least 10, maybe more AP courses high schools can offer. It would be extremely costly if we required every school to offer all of them. My suggestion would be to require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, but not all of them.


that's what we're working on, making sure between at least 3 nearby schools, students can reach every AP class. The 3 schools also wouldn't have to be in a set trio. Like School A could share classes with B and C, and B could share classes with A and D etc.
That would be a possibility, though it would cost money unless we required that the students find their own transportation to another school, which I'm not sure is the best way. What if a school was about 30 minutes, or even an hour away from another school? I'm sure that somewhere in this region, that is the case. How will we be able to afford that?
Personally, I think the best option right now, given our economic struggles, is to just require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, my suggestion being between 2-4. Maybe in the future we could expand.
2-4 AP classes i nothing, that's why the bill I think was brought up in the first place...to make sure students can get more AP classes then that, especially say if all 4 are in science (many times this is true) and they are just really good at social studies and english
Incorrect. The purpose of this bill was to encourage high school students to take more challenging courses and reward them for it. I think I would know, given that I wrote the bill. ;)

sorry, I was talking about the amendment and then combined that with the bill so let me start over. I think that it is only resonable if we are going to weigh GPAs, that every student have the ability to take all those AP classes. It isn't fair one school has access to all calsses and another has just AP Biology.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 21, 2010, 05:01:55 PM
but how can we fund this though? Getting enough teachers for all these classes? Perhaps if we just made sure somehow that between a a group of two or three schools they cover everything?

It's simple: cut down the number of intensified classes, and turn them into AP's, or turn all IB classes into AP's, etc.  The teachers are there, we just need to alter the classes.
I would like to point out that there are at least 10, maybe more AP courses high schools can offer. It would be extremely costly if we required every school to offer all of them. My suggestion would be to require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, but not all of them.


that's what we're working on, making sure between at least 3 nearby schools, students can reach every AP class. The 3 schools also wouldn't have to be in a set trio. Like School A could share classes with B and C, and B could share classes with A and D etc.
That would be a possibility, though it would cost money unless we required that the students find their own transportation to another school, which I'm not sure is the best way. What if a school was about 30 minutes, or even an hour away from another school? I'm sure that somewhere in this region, that is the case. How will we be able to afford that?
Personally, I think the best option right now, given our economic struggles, is to just require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, my suggestion being between 2-4. Maybe in the future we could expand.
2-4 AP classes i nothing, that's why the bill I think was brought up in the first place...to make sure students can get more AP classes then that, especially say if all 4 are in science (many times this is true) and they are just really good at social studies and english
Incorrect. The purpose of this bill was to encourage high school students to take more challenging courses and reward them for it. I think I would know, given that I wrote the bill. ;)

sorry, I was talking about the amendment and then combined that with the bill so let me start over. I think that it is only resonable if we are going to weigh GPAs, that every student have the ability to take all those AP classes. It isn't fair one school has access to all calsses and another has just AP Biology.
No class would have just AP Biology if we required a minimum amount of AP courses that exceeded one. ;) Maybe we should entertain the idea of allowing students to choose any school in their area without paying out-of-district tuition?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 21, 2010, 07:37:20 PM
but how can we fund this though? Getting enough teachers for all these classes? Perhaps if we just made sure somehow that between a a group of two or three schools they cover everything?

It's simple: cut down the number of intensified classes, and turn them into AP's, or turn all IB classes into AP's, etc.  The teachers are there, we just need to alter the classes.
I would like to point out that there are at least 10, maybe more AP courses high schools can offer. It would be extremely costly if we required every school to offer all of them. My suggestion would be to require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, but not all of them.


that's what we're working on, making sure between at least 3 nearby schools, students can reach every AP class. The 3 schools also wouldn't have to be in a set trio. Like School A could share classes with B and C, and B could share classes with A and D etc.
That would be a possibility, though it would cost money unless we required that the students find their own transportation to another school, which I'm not sure is the best way. What if a school was about 30 minutes, or even an hour away from another school? I'm sure that somewhere in this region, that is the case. How will we be able to afford that?
Personally, I think the best option right now, given our economic struggles, is to just require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, my suggestion being between 2-4. Maybe in the future we could expand.
2-4 AP classes i nothing, that's why the bill I think was brought up in the first place...to make sure students can get more AP classes then that, especially say if all 4 are in science (many times this is true) and they are just really good at social studies and english
Incorrect. The purpose of this bill was to encourage high school students to take more challenging courses and reward them for it. I think I would know, given that I wrote the bill. ;)

sorry, I was talking about the amendment and then combined that with the bill so let me start over. I think that it is only resonable if we are going to weigh GPAs, that every student have the ability to take all those AP classes. It isn't fair one school has access to all calsses and another has just AP Biology.
No class would have just AP Biology if we required a minimum amount of AP courses that exceeded one. ;) Maybe we should entertain the idea of allowing students to choose any school in their area without paying out-of-district tuition?
I like that too...though to please the liberals how about adding the word "public" in front of school ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Ameriplan on June 21, 2010, 09:14:36 PM
but how can we fund this though? Getting enough teachers for all these classes? Perhaps if we just made sure somehow that between a a group of two or three schools they cover everything?

It's simple: cut down the number of intensified classes, and turn them into AP's, or turn all IB classes into AP's, etc.  The teachers are there, we just need to alter the classes.
I would like to point out that there are at least 10, maybe more AP courses high schools can offer. It would be extremely costly if we required every school to offer all of them. My suggestion would be to require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, but not all of them.


that's what we're working on, making sure between at least 3 nearby schools, students can reach every AP class. The 3 schools also wouldn't have to be in a set trio. Like School A could share classes with B and C, and B could share classes with A and D etc.
That would be a possibility, though it would cost money unless we required that the students find their own transportation to another school, which I'm not sure is the best way. What if a school was about 30 minutes, or even an hour away from another school? I'm sure that somewhere in this region, that is the case. How will we be able to afford that?
Personally, I think the best option right now, given our economic struggles, is to just require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, my suggestion being between 2-4. Maybe in the future we could expand.
2-4 AP classes i nothing, that's why the bill I think was brought up in the first place...to make sure students can get more AP classes then that, especially say if all 4 are in science (many times this is true) and they are just really good at social studies and english
Incorrect. The purpose of this bill was to encourage high school students to take more challenging courses and reward them for it. I think I would know, given that I wrote the bill. ;)

sorry, I was talking about the amendment and then combined that with the bill so let me start over. I think that it is only resonable if we are going to weigh GPAs, that every student have the ability to take all those AP classes. It isn't fair one school has access to all calsses and another has just AP Biology.
No class would have just AP Biology if we required a minimum amount of AP courses that exceeded one. ;) Maybe we should entertain the idea of allowing students to choose any school in their area without paying out-of-district tuition?
I like that too...though to please the liberals how about adding the word "public" in front of school ;)

Yeah, because going to a school that's not a holding pen for bad teachers, whose very existence relies on unreliable standardised testing scores, would obviously scar children for life.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 22, 2010, 12:40:53 PM
but how can we fund this though? Getting enough teachers for all these classes? Perhaps if we just made sure somehow that between a a group of two or three schools they cover everything?

It's simple: cut down the number of intensified classes, and turn them into AP's, or turn all IB classes into AP's, etc.  The teachers are there, we just need to alter the classes.
I would like to point out that there are at least 10, maybe more AP courses high schools can offer. It would be extremely costly if we required every school to offer all of them. My suggestion would be to require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, but not all of them.


that's what we're working on, making sure between at least 3 nearby schools, students can reach every AP class. The 3 schools also wouldn't have to be in a set trio. Like School A could share classes with B and C, and B could share classes with A and D etc.
That would be a possibility, though it would cost money unless we required that the students find their own transportation to another school, which I'm not sure is the best way. What if a school was about 30 minutes, or even an hour away from another school? I'm sure that somewhere in this region, that is the case. How will we be able to afford that?
Personally, I think the best option right now, given our economic struggles, is to just require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, my suggestion being between 2-4. Maybe in the future we could expand.
2-4 AP classes i nothing, that's why the bill I think was brought up in the first place...to make sure students can get more AP classes then that, especially say if all 4 are in science (many times this is true) and they are just really good at social studies and english
Incorrect. The purpose of this bill was to encourage high school students to take more challenging courses and reward them for it. I think I would know, given that I wrote the bill. ;)

sorry, I was talking about the amendment and then combined that with the bill so let me start over. I think that it is only resonable if we are going to weigh GPAs, that every student have the ability to take all those AP classes. It isn't fair one school has access to all calsses and another has just AP Biology.
No class would have just AP Biology if we required a minimum amount of AP courses that exceeded one. ;) Maybe we should entertain the idea of allowing students to choose any school in their area without paying out-of-district tuition?
I like that too...though to please the liberals how about adding the word "public" in front of school ;)

Yeah, because going to a school that's not a holding pen for bad teachers, whose very existence relies on unreliable standardised testing scores, would obviously scar children for life.
not all public schools are trash you know. And hence the point of letting kids take AP classes at other schools or even open enrolling in other public schools without penalty. It gives them choice. Isn't that what "I went to private school" conservatives are all about? Competition?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on June 22, 2010, 06:48:44 PM
Pardon the interuption, but:

Announcement: Constitutional Convention

Calling all regional governors, lt. governors, speakers, legislatures and citizens,

The main plank in the Purple State/Marokai Blue platform was a constitutional convention to consolidate the constitution and refresh the game. The size and nature of this reform is such that I would like to begin almost immediately upon taking office and so I ask each region to consider and pass the following resolution as quickly as possible:

Third Constitutional Convention Petition

The (insert region name) Region formally petitions the President of Atlasia to call a Constitutional Convention for the purposes of consolidation of the constitution and/or legislative reboot of the game.

Your help with this is greatly appreciated.

~PS


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Ameriplan on June 22, 2010, 07:40:48 PM
but how can we fund this though? Getting enough teachers for all these classes? Perhaps if we just made sure somehow that between a a group of two or three schools they cover everything?

It's simple: cut down the number of intensified classes, and turn them into AP's, or turn all IB classes into AP's, etc.  The teachers are there, we just need to alter the classes.
I would like to point out that there are at least 10, maybe more AP courses high schools can offer. It would be extremely costly if we required every school to offer all of them. My suggestion would be to require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, but not all of them.


that's what we're working on, making sure between at least 3 nearby schools, students can reach every AP class. The 3 schools also wouldn't have to be in a set trio. Like School A could share classes with B and C, and B could share classes with A and D etc.
That would be a possibility, though it would cost money unless we required that the students find their own transportation to another school, which I'm not sure is the best way. What if a school was about 30 minutes, or even an hour away from another school? I'm sure that somewhere in this region, that is the case. How will we be able to afford that?
Personally, I think the best option right now, given our economic struggles, is to just require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, my suggestion being between 2-4. Maybe in the future we could expand.
2-4 AP classes i nothing, that's why the bill I think was brought up in the first place...to make sure students can get more AP classes then that, especially say if all 4 are in science (many times this is true) and they are just really good at social studies and english
Incorrect. The purpose of this bill was to encourage high school students to take more challenging courses and reward them for it. I think I would know, given that I wrote the bill. ;)

sorry, I was talking about the amendment and then combined that with the bill so let me start over. I think that it is only resonable if we are going to weigh GPAs, that every student have the ability to take all those AP classes. It isn't fair one school has access to all calsses and another has just AP Biology.
No class would have just AP Biology if we required a minimum amount of AP courses that exceeded one. ;) Maybe we should entertain the idea of allowing students to choose any school in their area without paying out-of-district tuition?
I like that too...though to please the liberals how about adding the word "public" in front of school ;)

Yeah, because going to a school that's not a holding pen for bad teachers, whose very existence relies on unreliable standardised testing scores, would obviously scar children for life.
not all public schools are trash you know. And hence the point of letting kids take AP classes at other schools or even open enrolling in other public schools without penalty. It gives them choice. Isn't that what "I went to private school" conservatives are all about? Competition?

I went to a public school. I certainly think that the options of minorities would be better if they didn't go to a piece of crap public school that exists solely to provide jobs for overpaid, spoiled teachers that don't deserve half of what I earn.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 22, 2010, 07:55:21 PM
but how can we fund this though? Getting enough teachers for all these classes? Perhaps if we just made sure somehow that between a a group of two or three schools they cover everything?

It's simple: cut down the number of intensified classes, and turn them into AP's, or turn all IB classes into AP's, etc.  The teachers are there, we just need to alter the classes.
I would like to point out that there are at least 10, maybe more AP courses high schools can offer. It would be extremely costly if we required every school to offer all of them. My suggestion would be to require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, but not all of them.


that's what we're working on, making sure between at least 3 nearby schools, students can reach every AP class. The 3 schools also wouldn't have to be in a set trio. Like School A could share classes with B and C, and B could share classes with A and D etc.
That would be a possibility, though it would cost money unless we required that the students find their own transportation to another school, which I'm not sure is the best way. What if a school was about 30 minutes, or even an hour away from another school? I'm sure that somewhere in this region, that is the case. How will we be able to afford that?
Personally, I think the best option right now, given our economic struggles, is to just require each school to offer a certain amount of AP courses, my suggestion being between 2-4. Maybe in the future we could expand.
2-4 AP classes i nothing, that's why the bill I think was brought up in the first place...to make sure students can get more AP classes then that, especially say if all 4 are in science (many times this is true) and they are just really good at social studies and english
Incorrect. The purpose of this bill was to encourage high school students to take more challenging courses and reward them for it. I think I would know, given that I wrote the bill. ;)

sorry, I was talking about the amendment and then combined that with the bill so let me start over. I think that it is only resonable if we are going to weigh GPAs, that every student have the ability to take all those AP classes. It isn't fair one school has access to all calsses and another has just AP Biology.
No class would have just AP Biology if we required a minimum amount of AP courses that exceeded one. ;) Maybe we should entertain the idea of allowing students to choose any school in their area without paying out-of-district tuition?
I like that too...though to please the liberals how about adding the word "public" in front of school ;)

Yeah, because going to a school that's not a holding pen for bad teachers, whose very existence relies on unreliable standardised testing scores, would obviously scar children for life.
not all public schools are trash you know. And hence the point of letting kids take AP classes at other schools or even open enrolling in other public schools without penalty. It gives them choice. Isn't that what "I went to private school" conservatives are all about? Competition?

I went to a public school. I certainly think that the options of minorities would be better if they didn't go to a piece of crap public school that exists solely to provide jobs for overpaid, spoiled teachers that don't deserve half of what I earn.
I would agree without you minus the fact that public school teachers really don't get paid a lot, especially in urban poor areas.

And I don't think it's the teacher's fault when they are given a group of kids where half are the breadwinners and work night jobs, some don’t speak English and many are on drugs and then expect the teacher to make them all brilliant while their hands are tied behind a failed and useless curriculum


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 22, 2010, 08:55:13 PM
Assembly,
Something that was addressed several weeks ago was an error in our Constitution in Article III, Section 2, Clause 6. According to it, a Governor must sign legislation in order for it to be eligible for a public referendum. Therefore, a bill that became law after seven days couldn't face refendum since it was never signed. That error could have come in handy if there was ever a Governor who wanted a bill to pass but didn't want it to face public vote. They could just let the bill flow into law and that would be that.

I have had a good discussion with Badger about how to correctly fix this problem. He did most of the work, and I just threw in a few thoughts and ideas. ;) Anyways, I'd like to propose the following amendment to the Assembly for consideration:

Quote
Article III, Section 2, Clause 6 in the Mideast Constitution is amended to read:
6.  Should the Assembly pass and the Governor sign legislation, or legislation otherwise be enacted into law pursuant to Paragraph 4 of this Section by virtue of not being vetoed within 7 days after passage in the Assembly, and a group of 6 or more citizens publicly protest the measure in either the Mideast Assembly or a separate thread within 30 days of the measure being signed or otherwise enacted into law as described herein, a public referendum shall be held on that legislation. All public referendums shall come to a full vote of the citizens of the Mideast in a special Voting Booth to be administered in accordance with Article IV of this Constitution. Voting shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on a Third Thursday of the month and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 48 hours after beginning. The starting date of the election shall be the next Third Thursday occurring at least 7 days after the 6th citizen publically posts their protest of the measure.

Thank you for your time,
Governor Tmthforu94


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Ameriplan on June 22, 2010, 09:15:29 PM
Assembly,
Something that was addressed several weeks ago was an error in our Constitution in Article III, Section 2, Clause 6. According to it, a Governor must sign legislation in order for it to be eligible for a public referendum. Therefore, a bill that became law after seven days couldn't face refendum since it was never signed. That error could have come in handy if there was ever a Governor who wanted a bill to pass but didn't want it to face public vote. They could just let the bill flow into law and that would be that.

I have had a good discussion with Badger about how to correctly fix this problem. He did most of the work, and I just threw in a few thoughts and ideas. ;) Anyways, I'd like to propose the following amendment to the Assembly for consideration:

Quote
Article III, Section 2, Clause 6 in the Mideast Constitution is amended to read:
6.  Should the Assembly pass and the Governor sign legislation, or legislation otherwise be enacted into law pursuant to Paragraph 4 of this Section by virtue of not being vetoed within 7 days after passage in the Assembly, and a group of 6 or more citizens publicly protest the measure in either the Mideast Assembly or a separate thread within 30 days of the measure being signed or otherwise enacted into law as described herein, a public referendum shall be held on that legislation. All public referendums shall come to a full vote of the citizens of the Mideast in a special Voting Booth to be administered in accordance with Article IV of this Constitution. Voting shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on a Third Thursday of the month and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 48 hours after beginning. The starting date of the election shall be the next Third Thursday occurring at least 7 days after the 6th citizen publically posts their protest of the measure.

Thank you for your time,
Governor Tmthforu94

I accept, even though I live in Pennsylvania and I'm just vacationing in French Lick :).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 22, 2010, 09:23:53 PM
I accept, even though I live in Pennsylvania and I'm just vacationing in French Lick :).
Oh? And how is that treating you? I've personally never made it down to French Lick, but I hear it's a fancy attraction. If I remember correctly, President Lincoln made a stop or two there. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Ameriplan on June 22, 2010, 09:26:21 PM
I accept, even though I live in Pennsylvania and I'm just vacationing in French Lick :).
Oh? And how is that treating you? I've personally never made it down to French Lick, but I hear it's a fancy attraction. If I remember correctly, President Lincoln made a stop or two there. ;)

It's pretty nice, but vacations are never long enough.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 22, 2010, 09:31:17 PM
I accept, even though I live in Pennsylvania and I'm just vacationing in French Lick :).
Oh? And how is that treating you? I've personally never made it down to French Lick, but I hear it's a fancy attraction. If I remember correctly, President Lincoln made a stop or two there. ;)

It's pretty nice, but vacations are never long enough.
Sadly, they aren't. :( Make the most of your remaining time! Indiana is a great state with a great Governor! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Ameriplan on June 22, 2010, 09:40:48 PM
I accept, even though I live in Pennsylvania and I'm just vacationing in French Lick :).
Oh? And how is that treating you? I've personally never made it down to French Lick, but I hear it's a fancy attraction. If I remember correctly, President Lincoln made a stop or two there. ;)

It's pretty nice, but vacations are never long enough.
Sadly, they aren't. :( Make the most of your remaining time! Indiana is a great state with a great Governor! :)

Thank you, and very true :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on June 22, 2010, 10:21:05 PM
At the request of the President-elect, I'm introducing this:

Third Constitutional Convention Petition

The Mideast Region formally petitions the President of Atlasia to call a Constitutional Convention for the purposes of consolidation of the constitution and/or legislative reboot of the game.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 22, 2010, 10:22:37 PM
I'm just waiting for HW's budget bill...I thought that would have been the entire focus in this assembly/the most heated topic that we'd spend the whole time debating not to mention actually getting our first budget together.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: useful idiot on June 22, 2010, 10:29:09 PM
Fellow Mideasterners,

I'd like to announce my support of the current education legislation being debated here. I personally have a strong commitment to education. I think that Ben's idea of adding 1.0 to the GPA for AP classes is fantastic, however I would disagree with him on the issue of requiring schools to add all AP classes. I'd agree with the fact that we need greater mobility in school choice, allowing students to pursue their education in a manner that allows them to choose their school based on that school's particular curriculum offerings.

I strongly disagree with WilliamSargent's characterization of teachers. They have chosen to pursue a valuable and noble calling, and that is something we should encourage. I think that issue here is not to punish teachers, whom obviously can be dealt a rough hand due to the neighborhood or students they are given, but to encourage students to have a greater say in their education, creating an atmosphere where both teachers and students can flourish. I would in fact support legislation creating further incentives for teachers who do their jobs well, but I don't think we should be in the job of evaluating teachers at this level of government.

I'd also like to announce my support for the re-introduction of the office of Lt. Governor in our region, as I have discussed with Governor Tmthforu94. I think that this would relieve undue burden on him and allow for greater flexibility in the government.

I am creating this post to introduce myself to you all. I have been in talks with the Governor, and I'm sure he won't mind me saying this, to fill a vacant job on the assembly. I'd like to affirm my commitment to the region, and to working with all of you to solve the issues vital to the Mideast. I hope that we can see past any personal differences we might have and come to common ground in order to get the most out of this legislative body, and to do the best by the region. I thank you for your time and wish you all well,

Useful Idiot


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on June 23, 2010, 08:00:57 AM
Assembly,
Something that was addressed several weeks ago was an error in our Constitution in Article III, Section 2, Clause 6. According to it, a Governor must sign legislation in order for it to be eligible for a public referendum. Therefore, a bill that became law after seven days couldn't face refendum since it was never signed. That error could have come in handy if there was ever a Governor who wanted a bill to pass but didn't want it to face public vote. They could just let the bill flow into law and that would be that.

I have had a good discussion with Badger about how to correctly fix this problem. He did most of the work, and I just threw in a few thoughts and ideas. ;) Anyways, I'd like to propose the following amendment to the Assembly for consideration:

Quote
Article III, Section 2, Clause 6 in the Mideast Constitution is amended to read:
6.  Should the Assembly pass and the Governor sign legislation, or legislation otherwise be enacted into law pursuant to Paragraph 4 of this Section by virtue of not being vetoed within 7 days after passage in the Assembly, and a group of 6 or more citizens publicly protest the measure in either the Mideast Assembly or a separate thread within 30 days of the measure being signed or otherwise enacted into law as described herein, a public referendum shall be held on that legislation. All public referendums shall come to a full vote of the citizens of the Mideast in a special Voting Booth to be administered in accordance with Article IV of this Constitution. Voting shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on a Third Thursday of the month and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 48 hours after beginning. The starting date of the election shall be the next Third Thursday occurring at least 7 days after the 6th citizen publically posts their protest of the measure.

Thank you for your time,
Governor Tmthforu94

You're being modest, Governor, but thank you. ;)

Wow, between this, the budget bill, education reform, and now the request for a Constitutional Convention, this place has a serious 'to do' list this term. :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on June 23, 2010, 06:52:26 PM
Also, here's something I want to do after the Convention Call:

THE MIDEAST CONSISTENCY IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE ACT

Article II, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Mideast Constitution is amended FROM:

"3.A nomination to the Superior Court shall only be held in the event of a need for the adjudication of a case pertaining to Mideast law within the Mideast region. The justice's tenure shall last only as long as needed to resolve the case at hand."

TO:

"3. A nomination to the Superior Court, unless terminated early by resignation or recall, or impeachment shall be subject to reconfirmation by majority vote of the Mideastern Assembly every third session of the Assembly after initial confirmation. Should the Assembly fail to take a vote on renomination of the Superior Court Judge during the session in which the judge is normally subject to reconfirmation, it will act as if the Judge is reconfirmed accordingly. "


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 23, 2010, 06:58:30 PM
Also, here's something I want to do after the Convention Call:

THE MIDEAST CONSISTENCY IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE ACT

Article II, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Mideast Constitution is amended FROM:

"3.A nomination to the Superior Court shall only be held in the event of a need for the adjudication of a case pertaining to Mideast law within the Mideast region. The justice's tenure shall last only as long as needed to resolve the case at hand."

TO:

"3. A nomination to the Superior Court, unless terminated early by resignation or recall, or impeachment shall be subject to reconfirmation by majority vote of the Mideastern Assembly every third session of the Assembly after initial confirmation. Should the Assembly fail to take a vote on renomination of the Superior Court Judge during the session in which the judge is normally subject to reconfirmation, it will act as if the Judge is reconfirmed accordingly. "

Note: In case any of y'all were wondering, this was passed before, and went to a public vote, where it failed. It has my personal support now, and I voted "Abstain" in the vote. I was having difficult RL issues at the time and just abstained so I could say I voted. I like the idea of this, and think it could save us time in the future.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on June 23, 2010, 07:40:45 PM
I like this.  I didn't like the whole temporary judge thing in the first place.  Great amendment, Ben.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 23, 2010, 07:47:58 PM
I like this.  I didn't like the whole temporary judge thing in the first place.  Great amendment, Ben.
^ Inks has said it all


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on June 23, 2010, 08:13:30 PM
Hey guys, I wrote this Amendment for the ME Constitution concerning the Lt. Governor.  Feel free to try it. ;)

Quote
Section 1: The Lieutenant Governor
1.   Elections to the post of Lt. Governor shall be conducted on a joint “ticket” with a candidate for Governor.  Regular elections shall take place in the months of January, May, and September.  Elections shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the third Thursday of the month and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
2.   The Lt. Governor shall be the presiding officer of the Assembly, but shall have no vote, unless they are equally divided.
3.   In the case of the vacancy of the Governorship, the Lt. Governor shall become the Governor.  If the Governor declares that he is temporarily unable to discharge his duties, the Lt. Governor shall be the Acting Governor until the Governor declares the resumption of the office.
4.   The qualifications for holding the office of Lt. Governor shall be the same for those of the Governor.

Section 2: Gubernatorial Succession
1.   In the case of the vacancy of the Lt. Governorship, the Governor shall appoint a new Lt. Governor, subject to confirmation by the Assembly.  The Governor shall have up to 7 days to make an appointment, and if he fails to do so within that period, the Speaker of the Assembly shall assume the said responsibility.
2.   If the positions of Governor and Lt. Governor and vacant concurrently, the Speaker of the Assembly shall exercise the powers of Acting Governor, until a Lt. Governor is appointed.  However, if a regularly scheduled election for Governor and Lt. Governor are within three weeks or less, the Speaker shall remain Acting Governor until the start of the next term.  

Section 3: Miscellaneous repeals
1.   Article I, Section 3, is hereby repealed.
2.   Any other laws of the Mideast or sections of the Constitution that directly conflict with this amendment are hereby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 23, 2010, 08:15:30 PM
I think everyone knows my position on Lieutenant Governor. Barnes, you did a splendid job writing this bill. I have been going back and forth on whether I'd like for there to be "tickets" or for the two offices to be elected separately, but I'm starting to lean towards the tickets. It would certainly make elections much more exciting and would make us the only region with tickets, which is pretty cool.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 23, 2010, 10:34:28 PM
I support the changes Barnes has made :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on June 23, 2010, 10:52:48 PM
Why the hell are you adding a Lieutenant Governor? That post was abolished for a reason.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on June 23, 2010, 10:53:25 PM
Why the hell are you adding a Lieutenant Governor? That post was abolished for a reason.

Hey, I wrote it to be helpful. They can do what they want with it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on June 24, 2010, 12:23:20 AM
Why the hell are you adding a Lieutenant Governor? That post was abolished for a reason.

Seriously, I think this is worth repeating as many times as it takes. It is difficult enough to fill an Assembly. What possible uses are there for a Lieutenant Governor? The system in place in the Mideast is efficient and is not broken. So why are you trying to "fix" it?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on June 24, 2010, 10:43:51 AM
I don't get why the Lt. Governor post was removed. I also don't get why we need to restore it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on June 24, 2010, 11:51:23 AM
Why the hell are you adding a Lieutenant Governor? That post was abolished for a reason.

Seriously, I think this is worth repeating as many times as it takes. It is difficult enough to fill an Assembly. What possible uses are there for a Lieutenant Governor? The system in place in the Mideast is efficient and is not broken. So why are you trying to "fix" it?

Sums it up aptly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 24, 2010, 01:03:40 PM
First of all, we have very active Assembly races. And also the Governor won't be here for some time he said in the summer, occasionally we can have a tied vote, tickets make elections more fun, and then we can have more help updating the wiki page


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on June 24, 2010, 01:21:51 PM
First of all, we have very active Assembly races. And also the Governor won't be here for some time he said in the summer, occasionally we can have a tied vote, tickets make elections more fun, and then we can have more help updating the wiki page

And activity is top notch because competition exists. Expanding the number of offices reduces competition and makes elections meaningless. The ability to break tie votes is simply not a compelling reason to ruin our elections.

In addition, there is an effective procedure for the absence of the Governor and I don't think we need more than 6-7 people to update the regional Wiki.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 24, 2010, 02:13:38 PM
First of all, we have very active Assembly races. And also the Governor won't be here for some time he said in the summer, occasionally we can have a tied vote, tickets make elections more fun, and then we can have more help updating the wiki page

And activity is top notch because competition exists. Expanding the number of offices reduces competition and makes elections meaningless. The ability to break tie votes is simply not a compelling reason to ruin our elections.

In addition, there is an effective procedure for the absence of the Governor and I don't think we need more than 6-7 people to update the regional Wiki.

because one new position is going to screw over the entire Assembly's elections. You heard the Governor himself, it makes  newbies more active, it worked for me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 24, 2010, 02:19:08 PM
First of all, we have very active Assembly races. And also the Governor won't be here for some time he said in the summer, occasionally we can have a tied vote, tickets make elections more fun, and then we can have more help updating the wiki page

And activity is top notch because competition exists. Expanding the number of offices reduces competition and makes elections meaningless. The ability to break tie votes is simply not a compelling reason to ruin our elections.

In addition, there is an effective procedure for the absence of the Governor and I don't think we need more than 6-7 people to update the regional Wiki.

because one new position is going to screw over the entire Assembly's elections. You heard the Governor himself, it makes  newbies more active, it worked for me.

and if so many people are updating it...why is the latest legislation on the wiki page from two Assemblys ago? https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Statute#Legislation_Considered_in_the_10th_Assembly:


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on June 24, 2010, 05:35:51 PM
First of all, we have very active Assembly races. And also the Governor won't be here for some time he said in the summer, occasionally we can have a tied vote, tickets make elections more fun, and then we can have more help updating the wiki page

And activity is top notch because competition exists. Expanding the number of offices reduces competition and makes elections meaningless. The ability to break tie votes is simply not a compelling reason to ruin our elections.

In addition, there is an effective procedure for the absence of the Governor and I don't think we need more than 6-7 people to update the regional Wiki.

because one new position is going to screw over the entire Assembly's elections. You heard the Governor himself, it makes  newbies more active, it worked for me.

and if so many people are updating it...why is the latest legislation on the wiki page from two Assemblys ago? https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Statute#Legislation_Considered_in_the_10th_Assembly:

Activity is not inspired when elections are meaningless. Look at the Pacific, the land where newbies go to die (no offense to my VP-elect).

And your last post is just silly. If we have 6 elected officials and none update the Wiki, why should I believe that adding a seventh will suddenly change all that? Oh, and I should mention it is the constitutional duty of the Governor to update the Wiki. In fact, I believe this body will soon be duty-bound by the Constitution to appoint an acting Governor from its ranks until such time as the Governor has fulfilled his duty to update the Wiki for all actions performed under his term.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 24, 2010, 06:08:55 PM
I will accept Ben's amendment to the schools bills as friendly.  Would anybody like to see furthur debate on this of can I call it to a vote?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 24, 2010, 11:08:55 PM
First of all, we have very active Assembly races. And also the Governor won't be here for some time he said in the summer, occasionally we can have a tied vote, tickets make elections more fun, and then we can have more help updating the wiki page

And activity is top notch because competition exists. Expanding the number of offices reduces competition and makes elections meaningless. The ability to break tie votes is simply not a compelling reason to ruin our elections.

In addition, there is an effective procedure for the absence of the Governor and I don't think we need more than 6-7 people to update the regional Wiki.

because one new position is going to screw over the entire Assembly's elections. You heard the Governor himself, it makes  newbies more active, it worked for me.

and if so many people are updating it...why is the latest legislation on the wiki page from two Assemblys ago? https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Statute#Legislation_Considered_in_the_10th_Assembly:

Activity is not inspired when elections are meaningless. Look at the Pacific, the land where newbies go to die (no offense to my VP-elect).

And your last post is just silly. If we have 6 elected officials and none update the Wiki, why should I believe that adding a seventh will suddenly change all that? Oh, and I should mention it is the constitutional duty of the Governor to update the Wiki. In fact, I believe this body will soon be duty-bound by the Constitution to appoint an acting Governor from its ranks until such time as the Governor has fulfilled his duty to update the Wiki for all actions performed under his term.
That is simply ridiculous. The reason the Wiki is so far behind is because I have been stuck working on the two sessions before me, as the previous Governor didn't bother to update it. (Sorry SC :( ) It really bugs me that you let it slide when Swedish Cheese goes an entire term without updating the statue and then you say I, who has at least started on it and isn't even 1/4 through h is term, should be replaced by an acting Governor because I'm behind on Wiki. Maybe I wouldn't be behind if I only had to do the Wiki for my term, and not the term before me!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 24, 2010, 11:12:28 PM
I'd also like to add, Mr. "President-elect" that in case you haven't read our Constitution in a while...

Quote
If appropriate action is not taken within 30 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Assembly shall choose a member of its body to serve as acting Governor and to assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled the first clause of this section.

It hasn't been thirty days yet, so it would be unconstitutional for the Assembly to appoint an acting Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on June 24, 2010, 11:46:48 PM
Whoa, whoa.

First Tmth, I am bringing this up simply because some members of the Assembly feel that the way to solve the Wiki problem is to simply create more positions, rather than helping you out themselves. I am stressing why a Lieutenant Governor would harm the region's activity without any plausible benefit.

I'd also like to add, Mr. "President-elect" that in case you haven't read our Constitution in a while...

Quote
If appropriate action is not taken within 30 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Assembly shall choose a member of its body to serve as acting Governor and to assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled the first clause of this section.

It hasn't been thirty days yet, so it would be unconstitutional for the Assembly to appoint an acting Governor.


Reread what I wrote please.

Quote
Activity is not inspired when elections are meaningless. Look at the Pacific, the land where newbies go to die (no offense to my VP-elect).

And your last post is just silly. If we have 6 elected officials and none update the Wiki, why should I believe that adding a seventh will suddenly change all that? Oh, and I should mention it is the constitutional duty of the Governor to update the Wiki. In fact, I believe this body will soon be duty-bound by the Constitution to appoint an acting Governor from its ranks until such time as the Governor has fulfilled his duty to update the Wiki for all actions performed under his term.

Nowhere did I say you should be removed right now. Also, I should note that you are primarily responsible for the legislation passed under your watch, not under the administrations before you, per the Mideast Constitution. I encourage you to start in your administration and go backwards.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 25, 2010, 09:44:38 AM
Whoa, whoa.

First Tmth, I am bringing this up simply because some members of the Assembly feel that the way to solve the Wiki problem is to simply create more positions, rather than helping you out themselves. I am stressing why a Lieutenant Governor would harm the region's activity without any plausible benefit.

I'd also like to add, Mr. "President-elect" that in case you haven't read our Constitution in a while...

Quote
If appropriate action is not taken within 30 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Assembly shall choose a member of its body to serve as acting Governor and to assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled the first clause of this section.

It hasn't been thirty days yet, so it would be unconstitutional for the Assembly to appoint an acting Governor.


Reread what I wrote please.

Quote
Activity is not inspired when elections are meaningless. Look at the Pacific, the land where newbies go to die (no offense to my VP-elect).

And your last post is just silly. If we have 6 elected officials and none update the Wiki, why should I believe that adding a seventh will suddenly change all that? Oh, and I should mention it is the constitutional duty of the Governor to update the Wiki. In fact, I believe this body will soon be duty-bound by the Constitution to appoint an acting Governor from its ranks until such time as the Governor has fulfilled his duty to update the Wiki for all actions performed under his term.

Nowhere did I say you should be removed right now. Also, I should note that you are primarily responsible for the legislation passed under your watch, not under the administrations before you, per the Mideast Constitution. I encourage you to start in your administration and go backwards.
My apologies for snapping at you last night. It was midnight, I was tired, and it simply bugged me that people were criticizing me for not updating the wiki but didn't say a word when previous administrations have gone months without updating the Wiki.
P.S. The wiki that I am responsible for is almost completely updated.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 25, 2010, 01:46:01 PM
Whoa, whoa.

First Tmth, I am bringing this up simply because some members of the Assembly feel that the way to solve the Wiki problem is to simply create more positions, rather than helping you out themselves. I am stressing why a Lieutenant Governor would harm the region's activity without any plausible benefit.

I'd also like to add, Mr. "President-elect" that in case you haven't read our Constitution in a while...

Quote
If appropriate action is not taken within 30 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Assembly shall choose a member of its body to serve as acting Governor and to assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled the first clause of this section.

It hasn't been thirty days yet, so it would be unconstitutional for the Assembly to appoint an acting Governor.


Reread what I wrote please.

Quote
Activity is not inspired when elections are meaningless. Look at the Pacific, the land where newbies go to die (no offense to my VP-elect).

And your last post is just silly. If we have 6 elected officials and none update the Wiki, why should I believe that adding a seventh will suddenly change all that? Oh, and I should mention it is the constitutional duty of the Governor to update the Wiki. In fact, I believe this body will soon be duty-bound by the Constitution to appoint an acting Governor from its ranks until such time as the Governor has fulfilled his duty to update the Wiki for all actions performed under his term.

Nowhere did I say you should be removed right now. Also, I should note that you are primarily responsible for the legislation passed under your watch, not under the administrations before you, per the Mideast Constitution. I encourage you to start in your administration and go backwards.
My apologies for snapping at you last night. It was midnight, I was tired, and it simply bugged me that people were criticizing me for not updating the wiki but didn't say a word when previous administrations have gone months without updating the Wiki.
P.S. The wiki that I am responsible for is almost completely updated.

And I am simply saying just one more reason we should have a Lt. Gov. I'm not saying my sole reason is that they'd held the Governor updating a wiki page.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 25, 2010, 04:48:39 PM
Mr. Speaker,

After the education bill passes (I would very much assume), will you be bringing up the regional budget bill you've been working hard on these past few months I assume? :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 25, 2010, 06:18:36 PM
Mr. Speaker,

After the education bill passes (I would very much assume), will you be bringing up the regional budget bill you've been working hard on these past few months I assume? :)

As long as there are no bills in regards to election systems in the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on June 25, 2010, 06:19:54 PM
Would the Assembly be able to consider multiple bills at once? I am hoping to have action taken fairly quickly on the ConCon resolution to ensure that my administration can hit the ground running with the effort.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 25, 2010, 06:34:27 PM
Would the Assembly be able to consider multiple bills at once? I am hoping to have action taken fairly quickly on the ConCon resolution to ensure that my administration can hit the ground running with the effort.
That sounds nice, but it would create a lot of confusion in the Assembly if we had multiple bills. If the Assembly thinks otherwise, I'd be open to trying it. I still think our best option would be a sub-board, but oh well.

I would encourage the Speaker and Assembly to quickly pass the ConCon resolution next, so the administration in waiting won't have to wait on our region to get it started.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 25, 2010, 06:37:42 PM
Would the Assembly be able to consider multiple bills at once? I am hoping to have action taken fairly quickly on the ConCon resolution to ensure that my administration can hit the ground running with the effort.
That sounds nice, but it would create a lot of confusion in the Assembly if we had multiple bills. If the Assembly thinks otherwise, I'd be open to trying it. I still think our best option would be a sub-board, but oh well.

I would encourage the Speaker and Assembly to quickly pass the ConCon resolution next, so the administration in waiting won't have to wait on our region to get it started.

If nothing else, I think we're ready for a vote on the education bill


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on June 25, 2010, 06:48:27 PM
Would the Assembly be able to consider multiple bills at once? I am hoping to have action taken fairly quickly on the ConCon resolution to ensure that my administration can hit the ground running with the effort.
That sounds nice, but it would create a lot of confusion in the Assembly if we had multiple bills. If the Assembly thinks otherwise, I'd be open to trying it. I still think our best option would be a sub-board, but oh well.

I would encourage the Speaker and Assembly to quickly pass the ConCon resolution next, so the administration in waiting won't have to wait on our region to get it started.

Thank you. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 25, 2010, 09:07:07 PM
Weighted Grades Amendment
Whereas: The Mideast government feels we need to take extra steps to encourage high school students to take challenging courses so that they may reach their full potnetial.
Be It Resolved:
Section One:
1. All public and charter schools in the Mideast region shall conform to a 4.0 grading scale system.
Section Two:
1. For every advanced placement course (AP) or honor course taken by a Mideast student in grades 9-12, student shall have an additional .25 to their overall GPA for the semester, assuming they receive a grade above C in the course.

This bill is now up for a vote with the following amendment accepted as friendly:

"Section 2.1 shall be amended to read:
For every Mideast student in grades 9-12, student shall have an extra 1.0 points added to each end of year grade in every Advanced Placement (AP) class in which they have received an end of year grade of at least a C."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on June 25, 2010, 09:10:58 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 25, 2010, 09:11:33 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 25, 2010, 09:51:37 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on June 25, 2010, 11:16:49 PM
aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: useful idiot on June 27, 2010, 08:21:28 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 28, 2010, 02:34:59 PM
With that the Weighted Grades Amendment is passed and presented to the Governor for his signature.

Now does anyone have any other bills to put forward before I put up my budget bill?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 28, 2010, 03:47:44 PM
Nope, I want your budget bill in before we do anything else in the Assembly mainly so we know what we'll actually have the money for and what we can cut, reform, etc.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 28, 2010, 03:52:29 PM
With that the Weighted Grades Amendment is passed and presented to the Governor for his signature.

Now does anyone have any other bills to put forward before I put up my budget bill?
Can we do the ConCon first just to get that out of the way? I believe Ben proposed it. There was also the regional judge bill which was introduced. I'm just suggesting bills that wouldn't take a long time to debate so we can get them out of the weigh.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 28, 2010, 04:07:19 PM
With that the Weighted Grades Amendment is passed and presented to the Governor for his signature.

Now does anyone have any other bills to put forward before I put up my budget bill?
Can we do the ConCon first just to get that out of the way? I believe Ben proposed it. There was also the regional judge bill which was introduced. I'm just suggesting bills that wouldn't take a long time to debate so we can get them out of the weigh.

the budget is going to take longer than anything...since we'll have to come up with our first ever budget


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on June 28, 2010, 04:10:49 PM
With that the Weighted Grades Amendment is passed and presented to the Governor for his signature.

Now does anyone have any other bills to put forward before I put up my budget bill?
Can we do the ConCon first just to get that out of the way? I believe Ben proposed it. There was also the regional judge bill which was introduced. I'm just suggesting bills that wouldn't take a long time to debate so we can get them out of the weigh.

the budget is going to take longer than anything...since we'll have to come up with our first ever budget

If y'all just introduce the ConCon resolution, and don't debate it, you could have that done with in like two days.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 28, 2010, 04:14:44 PM
With that the Weighted Grades Amendment is passed and presented to the Governor for his signature.

Now does anyone have any other bills to put forward before I put up my budget bill?
Can we do the ConCon first just to get that out of the way? I believe Ben proposed it. There was also the regional judge bill which was introduced. I'm just suggesting bills that wouldn't take a long time to debate so we can get them out of the weigh.

the budget is going to take longer than anything...since we'll have to come up with our first ever budget
And both of those bill would potentially take 2-3 days. After those, we'll be able to focus the rest of the session on the Budget instead of trying to cram them in at the end of the session. The ConCon resolution more than anything needs passed now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 28, 2010, 04:46:37 PM
With that the Weighted Grades Amendment is passed and presented to the Governor for his signature.

Now does anyone have any other bills to put forward before I put up my budget bill?
Can we do the ConCon first just to get that out of the way? I believe Ben proposed it. There was also the regional judge bill which was introduced. I'm just suggesting bills that wouldn't take a long time to debate so we can get them out of the weigh.

the budget is going to take longer than anything...since we'll have to come up with our first ever budget
And both of those bill would potentially take 2-3 days. After those, we'll be able to focus the rest of the session on the Budget instead of trying to cram them in at the end of the session. The ConCon resolution more than anything needs passed now.

sounds good


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on June 28, 2010, 05:32:11 PM
I'd like to just get the ConCon bill passed now; likewise with the judging.  The budget will take a while, and I think we shouldn't have to worry about other pending bills while debating it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 28, 2010, 05:42:15 PM
Could you guys repost those bills just for the sake of expediency?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on June 28, 2010, 05:46:47 PM
Third Constitutional Convention Petition

The Mideast Region formally petitions the President of Atlasia to call a Constitutional Convention for the purposes of consolidation of the constitution and/or legislative reboot of the game.

THE MIDEAST CONSISTENCY IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE ACT

Article II, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Mideast Constitution is amended FROM:

"3.A nomination to the Superior Court shall only be held in the event of a need for the adjudication of a case pertaining to Mideast law within the Mideast region. The justice's tenure shall last only as long as needed to resolve the case at hand."

TO:

"3. A nomination to the Superior Court, unless terminated early by resignation or recall, or impeachment shall be subject to reconfirmation by majority vote of the Mideastern Assembly every third session of the Assembly after initial confirmation. Should the Assembly fail to take a vote on renomination of the Superior Court Judge during the session in which the judge is normally subject to reconfirmation, it will act as if the Judge is reconfirmed accordingly. "


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 28, 2010, 06:02:37 PM
We will now begin 48 hours of debate on the ConCon bill.  GO!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on June 28, 2010, 10:46:32 PM
Do it.











;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on July 01, 2010, 02:09:13 PM
I'd now like to call for a vote on the ConCon bill.  If there are no objections:

AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on July 01, 2010, 02:19:12 PM
Our efforts at game reform are simple, targeted, and the epitome of non-radical.

We seek to consolidate our Constitution and simplify our statute. These are two efforts that will help to fix the game's foundations, make it easier for newbies to enter and participate in the game, and give us the ability to fight for bigger changes down the line. There are years of clutter that we must fix, and this rests on you.

I know that Officepark is skeptical of calling a new ConCon, and I can only offer words I said before:


You don't support constitutional consolidation and statute cleanup? We're talking simple stuff here, dude.

We already toyed around with a consitutional convention a few presidencies ago. It was a disaster.

I'm not convinced that this one will be any more successful, nor that it is in any way desirable to begin with (just like the other one).

Do you listen to anything we say? I'm genuinely curious, because judging from what you're saying it's like you're hearing "ConCon" for the first time.

There are several key differences:

The last ConCon had no specific focus. Pretty much all the proposals were wild redesigns of the game, many of which I hated anyway, but all the proposals were seeking to find a completely different structure to the game, this one will not. The purpose of this ConCon, if we get it, is specifically for constitutional consolidation and only minor modification.

The last ConCon had little to no actual progress in writing new things. A few articles were written for proposals here and there, but this time, we actually have a draft.

The last ConCon involved way too many people. Almost all votes required a quorum, which we could never meet, because we loaded up the ConCon with a ridiculous number of delegates making running the thing and getting anything through it a logistical nightmare. With a pinch of luck, a new ConCon will have less people involved while still maintaining maximum outside imput from citizens.

We are not abolishing regions. We are not changing the game in any radical way. We have not drafted and will not draft an unrecognizable constitution. We will not have ~30 people involved in an official capacity. This is an effort to work within the system, cleaning up the foundation of the game so it is simpler and easier to acclimate to, and setting the stage for future battles that can make the game more interesting without working on the patchwork system we have now.

I think the mere phrase Constitutional Convention has become toxic.

Ugh, it's so true. People hear "Constitutional Convention" and automatically think "vast logistical nightmare composed of ~30 people trying to redesign the entire game that gets nothing done." What people fail to realize is how simple a ConCon really is, and how the structure of a ConCon is decided by the Senate each individual time.

This can work, and it can better the game for us all. So let's all work together to get it done. I ask the Mideast Assembly: Please, pass this petition.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on July 01, 2010, 04:38:11 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 01, 2010, 05:09:31 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 02, 2010, 02:50:44 PM
What are we voting on after ConCon? Since it has in theory, passed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 02, 2010, 02:56:49 PM
Our efforts at game reform are simple, targeted, and the epitome of non-radical.

We seek to consolidate our Constitution and simplify our statute. These are two efforts that will help to fix the game's foundations, make it easier for newbies to enter and participate in the game, and give us the ability to fight for bigger changes down the line. There are years of clutter that we must fix, and this rests on you.

I know that Officepark is skeptical of calling a new ConCon, and I can only offer words I said before:


You don't support constitutional consolidation and statute cleanup? We're talking simple stuff here, dude.

We already toyed around with a consitutional convention a few presidencies ago. It was a disaster.

I'm not convinced that this one will be any more successful, nor that it is in any way desirable to begin with (just like the other one).

Do you listen to anything we say? I'm genuinely curious, because judging from what you're saying it's like you're hearing "ConCon" for the first time.

There are several key differences:

The last ConCon had no specific focus. Pretty much all the proposals were wild redesigns of the game, many of which I hated anyway, but all the proposals were seeking to find a completely different structure to the game, this one will not. The purpose of this ConCon, if we get it, is specifically for constitutional consolidation and only minor modification.

The last ConCon had little to no actual progress in writing new things. A few articles were written for proposals here and there, but this time, we actually have a draft.

The last ConCon involved way too many people. Almost all votes required a quorum, which we could never meet, because we loaded up the ConCon with a ridiculous number of delegates making running the thing and getting anything through it a logistical nightmare. With a pinch of luck, a new ConCon will have less people involved while still maintaining maximum outside imput from citizens.

We are not abolishing regions. We are not changing the game in any radical way. We have not drafted and will not draft an unrecognizable constitution. We will not have ~30 people involved in an official capacity. This is an effort to work within the system, cleaning up the foundation of the game so it is simpler and easier to acclimate to, and setting the stage for future battles that can make the game more interesting without working on the patchwork system we have now.

I think the mere phrase Constitutional Convention has become toxic.

Ugh, it's so true. People hear "Constitutional Convention" and automatically think "vast logistical nightmare composed of ~30 people trying to redesign the entire game that gets nothing done." What people fail to realize is how simple a ConCon really is, and how the structure of a ConCon is decided by the Senate each individual time.

This can work, and it can better the game for us all. So let's all work together to get it done. I ask the Mideast Assembly: Please, pass this petition.

There are also other reasons why I'm skeptical of a constitutional convention.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on July 02, 2010, 03:08:33 PM
Well, make sure that you don't tell anyone what they are.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: useful idiot on July 02, 2010, 03:13:03 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 02, 2010, 03:16:09 PM
In any case, I abstain (but I would have voted Nay previously)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 04, 2010, 01:12:04 PM
Are we waiting for the final talley and the next bill for any particular reason?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on July 04, 2010, 03:54:51 PM
I thank this Assembly for supporting the Convention idea. I know these things are fairly controversial after the last one ended in failure, but I do look forward to a streamlined and organized convention this time around with a clear goal.

Are we waiting for the final talley and the next bill for any particular reason?

My guess is the holiday weekend is keeping people away from Atlasia. I know I haven't exactly been around too much this weekend and have only gotten so much done because I had a lot waiting in the wings.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on July 04, 2010, 06:50:08 PM
The ConCon bill passes and is hereby presented to the Governor for his approval.

Now we will begin 48 hours of debate on the Consistency of administration of justice bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on July 04, 2010, 06:53:07 PM
The basic purpose of this Amendment is just to make things easier - cases occur so infrequently that having someone on staff makes everything easier.  This person still will be reconfirmed semi-regularly, so they could be replaced if it is so desired.  This way, when a case does arise, we don't need to appoint someone; they'll already be there.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 05, 2010, 12:41:33 PM
The basic purpose of this Amendment is just to make things easier - cases occur so infrequently that having someone on staff makes everything easier.  This person still will be reconfirmed semi-regularly, so they could be replaced if it is so desired.  This way, when a case does arise, we don't need to appoint someone; they'll already be there.

sounds good


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on July 06, 2010, 07:38:55 PM
HW, can we get a vote going?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on July 06, 2010, 08:23:13 PM

Yes, on the Judiciary bill voting is now open:

AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on July 06, 2010, 08:25:15 PM
AYE.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 06, 2010, 08:43:28 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 07, 2010, 11:02:41 AM
Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: useful idiot on July 08, 2010, 02:46:39 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 09, 2010, 03:37:33 PM
Hurray that we can get to the budget!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on July 09, 2010, 03:40:46 PM

Which I won't get to work on :(


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on July 10, 2010, 06:42:53 PM
This bill is now presented to the Governor for his signature or veto


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 10, 2010, 08:09:14 PM
Are we ready for the budget? :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on July 10, 2010, 09:19:22 PM
My fellow Assemblymen, in a few short moments I shall resign my current office and move on to become the next Secretary of External Affairs.  Before I leave, though, I would like to make a short farewell address, which I’m sure you all will not read ;)

First off, I would like to thank Governor Inks for taking a chance and appointing me to the Assembly.  By giving me this job, he has allowed me to rehabilitate myself, going from ignominious felon to semi-respected statesman, and now a Cabinet officer.  I owe him a great debt; he is truly a Statesman.

Second, I want to congratulate you, my present and former colleagues.  You have made my tenure here very enjoyable, and have made this Assembly a truly great deliberative body.  I look forward to monitoring your debate on the budget, which I am sure will be very illuminating :)

And so, my friends, all that is left is for me to bid you adieu.  I wish you the best of luck – may Dave continue to watch over this blessed Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 11, 2010, 01:42:48 PM
My fellow Assemblymen, in a few short moments I shall resign my current office and move on to become the next Secretary of External Affairs.  Before I leave, though, I would like to make a short farewell address, which I’m sure you all will not read ;)

First off, I would like to thank Governor Inks for taking a chance and appointing me to the Assembly.  By giving me this job, he has allowed me to rehabilitate myself, going from ignominious felon to semi-respected statesman, and now a Cabinet officer.  I owe him a great debt; he is truly a Statesman.

Second, I want to congratulate you, my present and former colleagues.  You have made my tenure here very enjoyable, and have made this Assembly a truly great deliberative body.  I look forward to monitoring your debate on the budget, which I am sure will be very illuminating :)

And so, my friends, all that is left is for me to bid you adieu.  I wish you the best of luck – may Dave continue to watch over this blessed Assembly.

Adieu, Benjamin, and may you do well in your new position.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on July 11, 2010, 01:46:14 PM
Ben, you have been an asset to the Mideast region. I wish you the best of luck in your new role. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 11, 2010, 03:47:14 PM
Good luck to Ben and his future.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on July 11, 2010, 06:43:43 PM
Without Further ado here is my Budget bill

Mideast Constitutional Budget Amendment

Article VIII-Regional Budget

Section 1: Budgetary Procedure

1.  During each Gubernatorial term a budget shall be passed by the Assembly in regards to Regional spending.
2.  This budget shall include all regional spending which is not specifically addressed and set by previous legislation.
3.  All budgets should also address tax rates in the Mideast region.
4.  Following a gubernatorial veto of any budgetary legislation, the Assembly must establish a 2/3s marjority to override this veto, just as with any legislation.
5.  No further spending may be addressed by the Assebly until the passing of the regional budget.

Section 2: Budgetary Precedence

1.  Upon passage of the first budget, all previous laws in relation to spending shall be overridden unless specifically mandated by the budget.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 11, 2010, 06:49:40 PM
I feel clause 4 is unnecessary (although if it stays in, let's fix it so majority is spelled correctly ;) ).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 11, 2010, 07:09:10 PM
I feel clause 4 is unnecessary (although if it stays in, let's fix it so majority is spelled correctly ;) ).

^^^^


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 11, 2010, 09:41:30 PM
I feel clause 4 is unnecessary (although if it stays in, let's fix it so majority is spelled correctly ;) ).

^^^^

and Assembly in clause 5.

So to get this straight, any bill we pass that has to do with spending or taxes will just not take EFFECT until the next budget correct? Otherwise what else will we be doing besides the budget correct?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on July 11, 2010, 09:42:37 PM
Two things: §1.5 can make the process overly cumbersome, though it is potentially useful for making sure it gets done; I would recommend considerable debate on this. Second, I will be watching this process closely as the federal attempts to create a budget commence shortly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 14, 2010, 04:24:20 PM
What are your thoughts on Section 2?

I mean that means it's a reboot for the region, do we really want that?

I don't think we've passed too many bills that they shouldn't be included, though with no real budget before, they really were all estimates of what the current tax and spending rates were, etc.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on July 14, 2010, 05:01:31 PM
Anyone who would like to propose an amendment should feel free to do so.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 14, 2010, 07:06:59 PM
Anyone who would like to propose an amendment should feel free to do so.

Here:

Quote
Mideast Constitutional Budget Amendment

The following shall be added to the end of the Mideast Constitution:

Article VII-Regional Budget

Section 1: Budgetary Procedure

1.  During each Gubernatorial term a budget shall be passed by the Assembly in regards to Regional spending.
2.  This budget shall include all regional spending which is not specifically addressed and set by previous legislation.
3.  All budgets should also address tax rates in the Mideast region.
4.  No further spending may be addressed by the Assebly until the passing of the regional budget.

Section 2: Budgetary Precedence

1.  Upon passage of the first budget, all previous laws in relation to spending shall be overridden unless specifically mandated by the budget.


note: the last article in the current constitution is VI, so I changed VIII to VII. I'm iffy on sections 1.5 (1.4 in this version) and 2, but we'll have to debate some more on that first.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on July 14, 2010, 07:41:44 PM
Anyone who would like to propose an amendment should feel free to do so.

Here:

Quote
Mideast Constitutional Budget Amendment

The following shall be added to the end of the Mideast Constitution:

Article VII-Regional Budget

Section 1: Budgetary Procedure

1.  During each Gubernatorial term a budget shall be passed by the Assembly in regards to Regional spending.
2.  This budget shall include all regional spending which is not specifically addressed and set by previous legislation.
3.  All budgets should also address tax rates in the Mideast region.
4.  No further spending may be addressed by the Assebly until the passing of the regional budget.

Section 2: Budgetary Precedence

1.  Upon passage of the first budget, all previous laws in relation to spending shall be overridden unless specifically mandated by the budget.


note: the last article in the current constitution is VI, so I changed VIII to VII. I'm iffy on sections 1.5 (1.4 in this version) and 2, but we'll have to debate some more on that first.

If you'd like to I'll accept that as friendly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 14, 2010, 11:06:40 PM
I understand that it's accepted as friendly, then?

The main change was to strike down the 2/3 majority clause, which I don't think is necessary (see previous comments).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 14, 2010, 11:16:16 PM
I understand that it's accepted as friendly, then?

The main change was to strike down the 2/3 majority clause, which I don't think is necessary (see previous comments).

yes

Now onto Section 2. What are all your thoughts on this? I'm opposed to it (slightly) I don't think we should just start over, you can't do that in RL and we really haven't passed THAT many bills


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on July 15, 2010, 04:55:42 AM
I understand that it's accepted as friendly, then?

The main change was to strike down the 2/3 majority clause, which I don't think is necessary (see previous comments).

yes

Now onto Section 2. What are all your thoughts on this? I'm opposed to it (slightly) I don't think we should just start over, you can't do that in RL and we really haven't passed THAT many bills

The bill would only strike down past spending bills, which were after all only guesses anyway and pretty much useless.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 15, 2010, 01:32:00 PM
I understand that it's accepted as friendly, then?

The main change was to strike down the 2/3 majority clause, which I don't think is necessary (see previous comments).

yes

Now onto Section 2. What are all your thoughts on this? I'm opposed to it (slightly) I don't think we should just start over, you can't do that in RL and we really haven't passed THAT many bills

The bill would only strike down past spending bills, which were after all only guesses anyway and pretty much useless.

true. I guess I'm good with this bill then if we can start voting soon.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on July 16, 2010, 11:30:39 AM
Two reminders:

-Hold a confirmation hearing for afleitch to be Superior Court Judge
-Send a Delegate to the Constitutional Convention.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on July 16, 2010, 12:15:54 PM
Both of Barnes points should be done as soon as possible. ;)

As for a Delegate, I'm fine with whoever the Assembly chooses . I trust y'all to pick someone good. I'd encourage anyone who is interested to publicly say that they are so that the Assembly will have something to work with. I think we have at least one person who has expressed interest so far. If anything, poll Mideasterners on who they want.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 18, 2010, 02:13:05 PM
How would we precede on choosing a delegate?

Hold some hearings?

And are we ready to vote on the budget bill? There seems to be minimal debate


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on July 18, 2010, 03:30:17 PM
How would we precede on choosing a delegate?

Hold some hearings?

And are we ready to vote on the budget bill? There seems to be minimal debate

For the delegate, a reasonable way to do that is to have an open nomination period of 48-72 hours and then go from there.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on July 18, 2010, 06:24:12 PM
We will now be holding a vote on the following bill unless there are any objections:

Mideast Constitutional Budget Amendment

Article VII-Regional Budget

Section 1: Budgetary Procedure

1.  During each Gubernatorial term a budget shall be passed by the Assembly in regards to Regional spending.
2.  This budget shall include all regional spending which is not specifically addressed and set by previous legislation.
3.  All budgets should also address tax rates in the Mideast region.
4.  No further spending may be addressed by the Assebly until the passing of the regional budget.

Section 2: Budgetary Precedence

1.  Upon passage of the first budget, all previous laws in relation to spending shall be overridden unless specifically mandated by the budget.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 18, 2010, 06:49:45 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on July 18, 2010, 10:00:22 PM
If I can do it without resigning as SoEA, I'd like to volunteer for the role of Delegate :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: useful idiot on July 18, 2010, 11:01:11 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 18, 2010, 11:03:52 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 18, 2010, 11:29:38 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on July 19, 2010, 12:21:10 AM
If I can do it without resigning as SoEA, I'd like to volunteer for the role of Delegate :)

Indeed you can hold an office and serve as a ConCon delegate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on July 19, 2010, 01:03:55 PM
I'd like to be delegate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on July 19, 2010, 01:27:05 PM

Hash would be an excellent choice.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on July 19, 2010, 03:27:28 PM


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 19, 2010, 04:38:39 PM
In accordance with Purple State, I say we keep accepting nominations for another two days before holding a vote on our regional delegate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 19, 2010, 04:54:13 PM
In accordance with Purple State, I say we keep accepting nominations for another two days before holding a vote on our regional delegate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on July 19, 2010, 04:58:01 PM
We will now be holding a vote on the following bill unless there are any objections:

Mideast Constitutional Budget Amendment

Article VII-Regional Budget

Section 1: Budgetary Procedure

1.  During each Gubernatorial term a budget shall be passed by the Assembly in regards to Regional spending.
2.  This budget shall include all regional spending which is not specifically addressed and set by previous legislation.
3.  All budgets should also address tax rates in the Mideast region.
4.  No further spending may be addressed by the Assebly until the passing of the regional budget.

Section 2: Budgetary Precedence

1.  Upon passage of the first budget, all previous laws in relation to spending shall be overridden unless specifically mandated by the budget.


No no no!

Make a budget first.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on July 19, 2010, 05:31:14 PM
I wish to put myself forward as a ConCon delegate :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 20, 2010, 03:00:16 AM
I also would like to express interest in being a delegate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 20, 2010, 12:11:23 PM
I also would like to express interest in being a delegate.

:D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 20, 2010, 10:57:42 PM
Should we vote on the delegates?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on July 21, 2010, 03:03:25 PM
If I may, here's my short speech on why I should be delegate:

I've been active in this game since 2007. I've served as Attorney General once, SoEA twice (and despite being fired, I think I did a good job) and a Senator for two full terms. I've been an old proponent of game reform before it was even trendy, and I was a delegate at the last ConCon where I was extremely disappointed with the narrow-minded obstructionist mindset of some. I was the one who put forward the motion to close the last ConCon down and end the stupidity and misery going on in there.

I still support game reform, but not for the sake of game reform. I won't close my eyes to the (reasonable and intelligent) arguments of those who may oppose the view of the reformists. I will put forward some of my ideas if I'm a delegate, but I'll work harder to forge compromise on one plan and force people to get things done unlike the last time around. I'm a person of compromise as long as others are as well. And, hell, you all know me.

plus, I don't hold any other office right now, so it's not like I'm busy with other stuff. I sincerely hope you consider voting me in to be delegate. Trugarez.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on July 21, 2010, 03:35:15 PM
Ben, Inks, Hash and Afleitch. All great potential choices! :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on July 21, 2010, 03:55:52 PM
We will now be holding a vote on the following bill unless there are any objections:

Mideast Constitutional Budget Amendment

Article VII-Regional Budget

Section 1: Budgetary Procedure

1.  During each Gubernatorial term a budget shall be passed by the Assembly in regards to Regional spending.
2.  This budget shall include all regional spending which is not specifically addressed and set by previous legislation.
3.  All budgets should also address tax rates in the Mideast region.
4.  No further spending may be addressed by the Assebly until the passing of the regional budget.

Section 2: Budgetary Precedence

1.  Upon passage of the first budget, all previous laws in relation to spending shall be overridden unless specifically mandated by the budget.


I apologize for offering my two cents so late in the debate, but....

Are we sure we want to have the restriction in line 4 on debating spending/taxes only in accordance with passing the quarterly (once per governor's term) budget? If I understand that provision correctly, once a budget is passed no further measures relating to spending may be introduced in the Assembly until the next term. While in real life there may be some strong reasons for this (though I imagine real world legislatures make additional appropriation bills outside the budget), I'm not sure we need to so limit free debate and creativity in this body.

Leaving aside the obvious potential need for emergency appropriations in case of disaster, etc, I say if someone wants to present a spending measure modifying the budget already passed that term, then let them. The  rest of the Assembly may very well vote it down on grounds the proposal doesn't warrant reopening the settled budget, or it may decide the proposal is worthwhile and whetever spending changes it calls for in the budget are worth it. The key here is: shouldn't the Assembly have the choice to decide?

Alternatively, maybe that section should at least only limit new spending proposals to those affecting the next term's budget. That way after a budget is passed, if an Assemblyman has a good idea involving spending they could at least propose it to take effect starting in the next term's budget. Otherwise we risk every single spending proposal being made during the budgetary process rather than spread throughout the Assembly term.

P.S. Typo in line 4: "Assebly"


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on July 22, 2010, 05:27:46 PM
Elect someone to the Convention. Your candidates are benconstine, Hashemite, afleitch and Inks.LWC.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 23, 2010, 06:53:44 PM
I motion to close nominations.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on July 23, 2010, 09:21:57 PM
On the motion to close nominations: AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 23, 2010, 10:39:16 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 24, 2010, 01:34:25 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on July 24, 2010, 08:10:41 PM
aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on July 25, 2010, 12:08:26 AM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 25, 2010, 01:02:29 AM
Point of order, the Assembly session ended on Friday at noon.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on July 25, 2010, 01:04:51 AM
Point of order, the Assembly session ended on Friday at noon.

I agree with the point. We need to elect a Speaker, and then move back to the ConCon.

I nominate HappyWarrior for Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 25, 2010, 12:27:44 PM
Point of order, the Assembly session ended on Friday at noon.

I agree with the point. We need to elect a Speaker, and then move back to the ConCon.

I nominate HappyWarrior for Speaker of the Assembly.

Can we just elect a Speaker then move straight to the vote? We've already got candidates up and running. Those who want it have shown an interest.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 25, 2010, 03:18:13 PM
I nominate Inks for Speaker


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on July 25, 2010, 09:14:11 PM
I will not run for another term as speaker, my time in real life is simply too hectic at this moment and I will happily endorse Inks for the job.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on July 26, 2010, 01:15:57 PM
I will not run for another term as speaker, my time in real life is simply too hectic at this moment and I will happily endorse Inks for the job.

I then retract my nomination. ;)

I'll also happily endorse Inks for Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on July 26, 2010, 05:33:13 PM
Fingers crossed on a ConCon delegate soon.

:P

I know things got screwy with the end of the session and all that. Looking forward to your selection forthwith.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 26, 2010, 10:55:20 PM
Shall we start our speaker vote?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 27, 2010, 01:45:35 AM
FYI, I'll be out of town until Wednesday night.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 29, 2010, 01:14:35 PM
Shall we start our vote for Speaker to get a ConCon delegate elected finally?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on July 29, 2010, 06:26:23 PM
Yes please! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 29, 2010, 08:57:57 PM
Ok I think the Dean or former Speaker is suppose to run the Speaker election so can we please hurray this up as the entire nation is waiting on us :)

Or I'll just start the vote and we can decide if it's legal and what not later ;)

I vote Inks for Speaker


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on July 31, 2010, 02:58:50 PM
Dean is supposed to open the vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 31, 2010, 04:56:06 PM

and when Ben left the Dean is now?...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on August 01, 2010, 06:43:45 AM
*cough* :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on August 01, 2010, 11:37:11 AM
The dean I think is either HW or A-Bob.

Of course Barnes suggested in his assembly thread that since there's only one candidate (Inks), we might as well just declare him speaker. What do the other Assemblymen think?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 01, 2010, 01:36:11 PM

I'm not completely sure. Though you swore in before HappyWarrior back in March, you didn't win reelection in May, but were appointed. You didn't swear in until the 30th of May. If I had to guess, I'd say HappyWarrior is the Dean, but I'm not 100% on that assumption.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 01, 2010, 04:06:39 PM
The dean I think is either HW or A-Bob.

Of course Barnes suggested in his assembly thread that since there's only one candidate (Inks), we might as well just declare him speaker. What do the other Assemblymen think?

^
I agree. We can figure out the official dean stuff later when we really need to.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on August 01, 2010, 06:11:23 PM
On the Speaker vote vote Inks or for a WI:

Inks


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 01, 2010, 06:47:49 PM
Keep in mind, Assembly, that Afleitch also needs to be confirmed as Judge fairly soon. I'd say that, as well as choosing a ConCon delegate, needs to be taken care of as soon as possible. Then we can move on to other legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 01, 2010, 11:41:07 PM
I vote for myself.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 02, 2010, 10:01:11 PM
Inks


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on August 03, 2010, 11:26:13 AM
Keep in mind, Assembly, that Afleitch also needs to be confirmed as Judge fairly soon. I'd say that, as well as choosing a ConCon delegate, needs to be taken care of as soon as possible. Then we can move on to other legislation.

No kidding. :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 03, 2010, 02:16:40 PM
Can we please start the vote on ConCon?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 03, 2010, 10:22:45 PM
Having been elected Speaker of the Assembly, I now open voting on the Con-Con delegate.

The candidates are as follows:

benconstine
Hashemite
afleitch

I withdraw my candidacy.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 03, 2010, 10:58:47 PM
afleitch


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 04, 2010, 02:01:21 PM
afleitch


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 04, 2010, 04:28:15 PM
Hashemite


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on August 04, 2010, 08:28:48 PM
Hashemite.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on August 05, 2010, 11:13:13 AM
Hm...very hard choice, because both are great candidates.

afleitch, although I have nothing against Hashemite...again, both would be acceptable as Constitutional Convention delegates.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on August 05, 2010, 02:18:25 PM
sigh. I can't even win a stupid ConCon spot anymore. I might as well give up this game now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 05, 2010, 03:36:13 PM
Shall we move on to vote to confirm afleitch for Superior Court?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 05, 2010, 04:27:09 PM
Shall we move on to vote to confirm afleitch for Superior Court?
That'd be my suggestion. After that, we can begin on the budget. Fun! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 05, 2010, 09:19:16 PM
The votes being as follows:

For Hashemite, 2 votes being cast
For afleitch, 3 votes being cast

The majority voting for afleitch, afleitch is duly elected delegate to the constitutional convention.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 05, 2010, 09:20:19 PM
We are now moving on to the approval of afleitch for Mideast Superior Court judge.  We will have a 48 hour period for questioning (unless we're ready to just vote now), after which a vote will be taken.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 05, 2010, 09:23:20 PM
I ask the Assembly to consider bypassing a period of questioning and heading straight to the vote. Afleitch has a history of being open-minded and bi-partisan, and I'm very confident he'd make an excellent Superior Court Judge.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 05, 2010, 09:46:32 PM
Alright then, barring objection, I ask that we move to hold a vote on this nomination.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 06, 2010, 02:39:49 PM
Alright then, barring objection, I ask that we move to hold a vote on this nomination.

seconded


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 06, 2010, 11:22:34 PM
Voting is now open on the approval of Afleitch as Superior Court Judge.  This will be a 36 hour vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 06, 2010, 11:23:51 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 07, 2010, 12:04:00 AM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on August 07, 2010, 12:27:25 AM
aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 07, 2010, 01:03:27 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on August 07, 2010, 07:17:05 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 08, 2010, 12:42:20 AM
Voting has now ended.  With 5 AYES and 0 NAYS, the AYES have it, and Afleitch is confirmed by this body as Judge of the Mideast Superior Court.

The Assembly will now accept the introduction of legislative bills.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on August 08, 2010, 08:58:13 AM
cumulard


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on August 08, 2010, 09:09:45 AM
I thank the Assembly for it's confidence :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 08, 2010, 11:10:30 AM
I thank the Assembly for it's confidence :)
Congratulations on getting confirmed! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 08, 2010, 02:27:03 PM

I believe it was ruled that a delegate to the convention did not constitute an office.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 08, 2010, 09:17:59 PM
Huzzah! I finally get to propose this thing. ;)

The Affordable Energy
and Environmental Protection Act

Preamble
To eliminate dependence on foreign oil, make our homes and businesses energy efficient, and ensure the protection of our natural environment for ourselves and our children.

Be it enacted by the Assembly of the Mideast Region:

Article 1 – Establishing a “Cap and Trade System” for the Mideast
A.   A Cap and Trade System for Greenhouse Gasses is herby established in the Mideast.  This system shall designate the total amount of Greenhouse Gasses allowed in the Mideast Region.
B.   The cap shall be set between 2011 and 2050   
C.   The cap shall be initially placed at 2007 emission levels.
D.   The cap shall be systematically reduced over time by the Governor, so that Greenhouse Gasses may be eliminated totally in the Mideast Region.

Article 2 – Tax credits and penalties
A.   Any company that reduces their greenhouse emissions, ahead of the regional standard, shall receive an annual tax credit of 15% of their annual revenue.
B.   Any company that reduces their greenhouse emissions, at the amount prescribed by the regional standard, shall receive an annual tax credit of 10% of their annual revenue.
C.   Any company that fails to reduce their greenhouse emissions, as set by the regional standard, shall be fined an amount equal to 10% of their annual revenue.
D.   As the cap is reduced by the Governor, the credits and fines may be raised, but as not to exceed 45%.
E.   The fines collected through this Act shall be invested in the following way:
a.   The creation of environmentally-friendly and energy-efficient projects.  Such as, solar panels, wind farms, hydro power plants, nuclear power plants, and other forms of clean energy.
b.   Grants distributed to Mideast small businesses (employing 50 or less workers) to create clean energy projects.
c.   Grants given to the Automobile industry for converting carbon emitting vehicles into clean-energy vehicles.

Article 3 – Equipping homes for an energy-independent future
A.   All homes equipped to be at least 10% energy efficient by January 1, 2011, shall receive a rebate of $800.  The percentile shall increase by 5% every two years with the rebate also increasing by $400 every two years.
B.   Any home that purchases a clean energy device for their home, including, but not limited to, solar panels, a wind turbine, or tapping geothermal energy, shall receive a deduction of 10% on their regional income taxes for 2011 and 2012.

Article 4 – Establishing a tax on harmful environmental emissions
A.   A tax of 15% is hereby established on any business importing or exporting harmful environmental emissions to or from the Mideast.
B.   The revenue collected through this tax shall go directly into funding clean-energy projects.

Article 5 – Establishing a fund to research alternatives to harmful coal emissions
A.   A fund of $5,000,000 shall be set aside over the course of four years to research alternatives to harmful coal mining, and to make coal mining environmentally friendly.

Article 6 – Effective Date
A.   Article Two of this Act shall take effect July 1, 2011.
B.   Article Three, Section B, of this Act shall tax effect twenty days after its passage into law.
C.   Article Five of the Act shall take effect January 1, 2011.

Article 7 – Miscellaneous items
A.   This Act is not to be implemented in such a way as to tamper with the implementation of the Atlasia Clean Energy Act of 2010 (F.L. 37-4).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 09, 2010, 12:40:05 PM
Greenhouse gases will NEVER be eliminated and shouldn't since we need them anyways for our planet to allow for life. We have 15% unemployment, now is not the time to destroy every small business in the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 09, 2010, 01:14:30 PM
I must admit, I am also skeptical on Article 4 of this bill. I'll have to do some more research on this issue, to see who this could primarily affect.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 09, 2010, 03:22:15 PM
I must admit, I am also skeptical on Article 4 of this bill. I'll have to do some more research on this issue, to see who this could primarily affect.

The first thing I thought of who it could harm is the food service industry.  Any restaurant who imports their CO2 tanks from outside would get slapped with a 15% tax.  Plus, any companies, such as PepsiCo, who ship their CO2 tanks out of the region would get slapped with a tax.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 09, 2010, 05:27:37 PM
Greenhouse gases will NEVER be eliminated and shouldn't since we need them anyways for our planet to allow for life. We have 15% unemployment, now is not the time to destroy every small business in the Mideast.

How does this destroy small businesses? That's a simple talking point. Article 2, Section E, deals solely with job creation. The grants given to businesses can only be given to small businesses.

I must admit, I am also skeptical on Article 4 of this bill. I'll have to do some more research on this issue, to see who this could primarily affect.

The first thing I thought of who it could harm is the food service industry.  Any restaurant who imports their CO2 tanks from outside would get slapped with a 15% tax.  Plus, any companies, such as PepsiCo, who ship their CO2 tanks out of the region would get slapped with a tax.

That's true. Perhaps amending the amount to a smaller margin, and then increasing it over a period of time?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 09, 2010, 05:50:04 PM
I just think that a blanket attack on "greenhouse gases" is something that will have unexpected consequences.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 09, 2010, 05:52:18 PM
I just think that a blanket attack on "greenhouse gases" is something that will have unexpected consequences.

Well that's true. What do you should be the top targets?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 09, 2010, 06:24:25 PM
Smaller business can't pay for these emission reductions like big business can. If you are anti-corporate you are doing the reverse effect because small business gets taxed to death because they don't have the money in the first place to keep up with this regulation and then we have monopolies.

So really, the large companies can pay for these changes, the small companies have to pay the fees which goes through section E back to them to have energy efficient projects only this goes all through bureaucracy and less money comes out.

I’m not against cleaning our world up. I think the best way to do this is tax credits period. This way when smaller businesses can afford these changes, they will instead of starting up and then getting penalized to death with taxes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 09, 2010, 06:28:15 PM
Smaller business can't pay for these emission reductions like big business can. If you are anti-corporate you are doing the reverse effect because small business gets taxed to death because they don't have the money in the first place to keep up with this regulation and then we have monopolies.

So really, the large companies can pay for these changes, the small companies have to pay the fees which goes through section E back to them to have energy efficient projects only this goes all through bureaucracy and less money comes out.

I’m not against cleaning our world up. I think the best way to do this is tax credits period. This way when smaller businesses can afford these changes, they will instead of starting up and then getting penalized to death with taxes.


Well then propose an amendment that sets up a different tax on each "level" of business.

How about we actually try to make a good bill? Of course, I know it's much easier to just say you oppose it and stop anything from happening. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 09, 2010, 06:33:45 PM
Smaller business can't pay for these emission reductions like big business can. If you are anti-corporate you are doing the reverse effect because small business gets taxed to death because they don't have the money in the first place to keep up with this regulation and then we have monopolies.

So really, the large companies can pay for these changes, the small companies have to pay the fees which goes through section E back to them to have energy efficient projects only this goes all through bureaucracy and less money comes out.

I’m not against cleaning our world up. I think the best way to do this is tax credits period. This way when smaller businesses can afford these changes, they will instead of starting up and then getting penalized to death with taxes.


Well then propose an amendment that sets up a different tax on each "level" of business.

How about we actually try to make a good bill? Of course, I know it's much easier to just say you oppose it and stop anything from happening. ;)

To add on, how about no tax penitentials on small businesses for a few years? And, in a few years, they can hopefully be caught up enough to fully participate in the bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 09, 2010, 07:04:48 PM
I just think that a blanket attack on "greenhouse gases" is something that will have unexpected consequences.

Well that's true. What do you should be the top targets?

It's not even that certain gases need/should be targeted.  My point is that there are legitimate purposes behind many greenhouse gases.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 09, 2010, 07:09:52 PM
I just think that a blanket attack on "greenhouse gases" is something that will have unexpected consequences.

Well that's true. What do you should be the top targets?

It's not even that certain gases need/should be targeted.  My point is that there are legitimate purposes behind many greenhouse gases.

Some gases, and in a certain amount. There are certainly many types of emissions that are harmful to our environment that we can agree need to be targeted.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 09, 2010, 07:11:20 PM
Smaller business can't pay for these emission reductions like big business can. If you are anti-corporate you are doing the reverse effect because small business gets taxed to death because they don't have the money in the first place to keep up with this regulation and then we have monopolies.

So really, the large companies can pay for these changes, the small companies have to pay the fees which goes through section E back to them to have energy efficient projects only this goes all through bureaucracy and less money comes out.

I’m not against cleaning our world up. I think the best way to do this is tax credits period. This way when smaller businesses can afford these changes, they will instead of starting up and then getting penalized to death with taxes.


Well then propose an amendment that sets up a different tax on each "level" of business.

How about we actually try to make a good bill? Of course, I know it's much easier to just say you oppose it and stop anything from happening. ;)

Yes, but I don't want a cap and tax system in the first place :) Not to be rude, but can we focus on the budget first? IF this passes it will be worthless because we are having a reboot once the budget is passed. I'd like to work on this with you, but after what should be our top priority and the most lenghty, the budget.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 09, 2010, 07:18:18 PM
Smaller business can't pay for these emission reductions like big business can. If you are anti-corporate you are doing the reverse effect because small business gets taxed to death because they don't have the money in the first place to keep up with this regulation and then we have monopolies.

So really, the large companies can pay for these changes, the small companies have to pay the fees which goes through section E back to them to have energy efficient projects only this goes all through bureaucracy and less money comes out.

I’m not against cleaning our world up. I think the best way to do this is tax credits period. This way when smaller businesses can afford these changes, they will instead of starting up and then getting penalized to death with taxes.


Well then propose an amendment that sets up a different tax on each "level" of business.

How about we actually try to make a good bill? Of course, I know it's much easier to just say you oppose it and stop anything from happening. ;)

Yes, but I don't want a cap and tax system in the first place :) Not to be rude, but can we focus on the budget first? IF this passes it will be worthless because we are having a reboot once the budget is passed. I'd like to work on this with you, but after what should be our top priority and the most lenghty, the budget.

Grr...What's the status of the budget? Behind the scenes, anyway?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on August 09, 2010, 07:20:53 PM
Huzzah! I finally get to propose this thing. ;)

The Affordable Energy
and Environmental Protection Act

[snip]

You have some good ideas in sections 3 and 5. I don't know whether I can support the other sections of the bill, however.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 09, 2010, 07:23:17 PM
Smaller business can't pay for these emission reductions like big business can. If you are anti-corporate you are doing the reverse effect because small business gets taxed to death because they don't have the money in the first place to keep up with this regulation and then we have monopolies.

So really, the large companies can pay for these changes, the small companies have to pay the fees which goes through section E back to them to have energy efficient projects only this goes all through bureaucracy and less money comes out.

I’m not against cleaning our world up. I think the best way to do this is tax credits period. This way when smaller businesses can afford these changes, they will instead of starting up and then getting penalized to death with taxes.


Well then propose an amendment that sets up a different tax on each "level" of business.

How about we actually try to make a good bill? Of course, I know it's much easier to just say you oppose it and stop anything from happening. ;)

Yes, but I don't want a cap and tax system in the first place :) Not to be rude, but can we focus on the budget first? IF this passes it will be worthless because we are having a reboot once the budget is passed. I'd like to work on this with you, but after what should be our top priority and the most lenghty, the budget.

Grr...What's the status of the budget? Behind the scenes, anyway?

I completed infrastructure. That's  a start


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 09, 2010, 07:24:12 PM
Huzzah! I finally get to propose this thing. ;)

The Affordable Energy
and Environmental Protection Act

[snip]

You have some good ideas in sections 3 and 5. I don't know whether I can support the other sections of the bill, however.

Well, I understand why you might be opposed to Cap and Trade, however, I'm open to an alternative that still does the job! ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 09, 2010, 07:26:31 PM
Smaller business can't pay for these emission reductions like big business can. If you are anti-corporate you are doing the reverse effect because small business gets taxed to death because they don't have the money in the first place to keep up with this regulation and then we have monopolies.

So really, the large companies can pay for these changes, the small companies have to pay the fees which goes through section E back to them to have energy efficient projects only this goes all through bureaucracy and less money comes out.

I’m not against cleaning our world up. I think the best way to do this is tax credits period. This way when smaller businesses can afford these changes, they will instead of starting up and then getting penalized to death with taxes.


Well then propose an amendment that sets up a different tax on each "level" of business.

How about we actually try to make a good bill? Of course, I know it's much easier to just say you oppose it and stop anything from happening. ;)

Yes, but I don't want a cap and tax system in the first place :) Not to be rude, but can we focus on the budget first? IF this passes it will be worthless because we are having a reboot once the budget is passed. I'd like to work on this with you, but after what should be our top priority and the most lenghty, the budget.

Grr...What's the status of the budget? Behind the scenes, anyway?

I completed infrastructure. That's  a start

Yeah, but what's the point of sitting around while we wait for things to be finished just to be introduced?

Maybe we can think of some ideas to make this deficit-neutral, so it doesn't really affect the budget process at all?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 09, 2010, 07:27:24 PM
Huzzah! I finally get to propose this thing. ;)

The Affordable Energy
and Environmental Protection Act

[snip]

You have some good ideas in sections 3 and 5. I don't know whether I can support the other sections of the bill, however.

Well, I understand why you might be opposed to Cap and Trade, however, I'm open to an alternative that still does the job! ;)

Good. This will be good to discuss, properly, after the budget :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 09, 2010, 07:28:07 PM
Okay since everything so far is behind the scenes, shall we just throw sections of the budget out here and then work on things and once we call it good slap everything together into a real, full budget?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 09, 2010, 07:32:23 PM
I hereby withdraw my bill.

It will be back, I promise. ;)

Okay since everything so far is behind the scenes, shall we just throw sections of the budget out here and then work on things and once we call it good slap everything together into a real, full budget?

Maybe we should develop exact rules of procedure when working on the budget?



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 09, 2010, 07:34:59 PM
I hereby withdraw my bill.

It will be back, I promise. ;)

Okay since everything so far is behind the scenes, shall we just throw sections of the budget out here and then work on things and once we call it good slap everything together into a real, full budget?

Maybe we should develop exact rules of procedure when working on the budget?


Thank you for putting this on a hold, Barnes.
Assembly, let's work together and try and get this budget through by the end of the month, at the latest. It can be done! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 09, 2010, 07:44:27 PM
I hereby withdraw my bill.

It will be back, I promise. ;)

Okay since everything so far is behind the scenes, shall we just throw sections of the budget out here and then work on things and once we call it good slap everything together into a real, full budget?

Maybe we should develop exact rules of procedure when working on the budget?


Thank you for putting this on a hold, Barnes.
Assembly, let's work together and try and get this budget through by the end of the month, at the latest. It can be done! :)
Easy to say. Hard to do :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 09, 2010, 07:45:10 PM
I hereby withdraw my bill.

It will be back, I promise. ;)

Okay since everything so far is behind the scenes, shall we just throw sections of the budget out here and then work on things and once we call it good slap everything together into a real, full budget?

Maybe we should develop exact rules of procedure when working on the budget?



What do you have in mind?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 09, 2010, 07:46:46 PM
I hereby withdraw my bill.

It will be back, I promise. ;)

Okay since everything so far is behind the scenes, shall we just throw sections of the budget out here and then work on things and once we call it good slap everything together into a real, full budget?

Maybe we should develop exact rules of procedure when working on the budget?



What do you have in mind?

Well, perhaps allowing multiple "sections" to be considered at on time. Or maybe even setting a maximum amount of debate time, and once the time runs out, the approved sections are automatically merged into the budget, which is then voted on.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 09, 2010, 07:50:01 PM
I hereby withdraw my bill.

It will be back, I promise. ;)

Okay since everything so far is behind the scenes, shall we just throw sections of the budget out here and then work on things and once we call it good slap everything together into a real, full budget?

Maybe we should develop exact rules of procedure when working on the budget?



What do you have in mind?

Well, perhaps allowing multiple "sections" to be considered at on time. Or maybe even setting a maximum amount of debate time, and once the time runs out, the approved sections are automatically merged into the budget, which is then voted on.

I'm for the multiple sections are once. However, I don't think we should limit debate on the most important thing this Assembly will have done since the creation of Atlasia


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 09, 2010, 07:53:27 PM
I hereby withdraw my bill.

It will be back, I promise. ;)

Okay since everything so far is behind the scenes, shall we just throw sections of the budget out here and then work on things and once we call it good slap everything together into a real, full budget?

Maybe we should develop exact rules of procedure when working on the budget?



What do you have in mind?

Well, perhaps allowing multiple "sections" to be considered at on time. Or maybe even setting a maximum amount of debate time, and once the time runs out, the approved sections are automatically merged into the budget, which is then voted on.

I'm for the multiple sections are once. However, I don't think we should limit debate on the most important thing this Assembly will have done since the creation of Atlasia
I'm siding with A-Bob here. Though I'd like to get more done this session, if all we get accomplished is a good budget, I am very fine with that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 09, 2010, 07:57:08 PM
I hereby withdraw my bill.

It will be back, I promise. ;)

Okay since everything so far is behind the scenes, shall we just throw sections of the budget out here and then work on things and once we call it good slap everything together into a real, full budget?

Maybe we should develop exact rules of procedure when working on the budget?



What do you have in mind?

Well, perhaps allowing multiple "sections" to be considered at on time. Or maybe even setting a maximum amount of debate time, and once the time runs out, the approved sections are automatically merged into the budget, which is then voted on.

I'm for the multiple sections are once. However, I don't think we should limit debate on the most important thing this Assembly will have done since the creation of Atlasia

I disagree on calling it "the most important thing", however, theoretically, the budget could take a whole session to pass. :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 09, 2010, 08:02:00 PM
I hereby withdraw my bill.

It will be back, I promise. ;)

Okay since everything so far is behind the scenes, shall we just throw sections of the budget out here and then work on things and once we call it good slap everything together into a real, full budget?

Maybe we should develop exact rules of procedure when working on the budget?



What do you have in mind?

Well, perhaps allowing multiple "sections" to be considered at on time. Or maybe even setting a maximum amount of debate time, and once the time runs out, the approved sections are automatically merged into the budget, which is then voted on.

I'm for the multiple sections are once. However, I don't think we should limit debate on the most important thing this Assembly will have done since the creation of Atlasia

I disagree on calling it "the most important thing", however, theoretically, the budget could take a whole session to pass. :P

It's the first time we're actually addressing all the issues and actually having control over the taxes and spending of government. When else has something this big happened?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 11, 2010, 06:17:24 PM
Ok I'm just going to throw this out there since nothing is happening and we can build from here.

Infrastructure
$29.2 billion for improvement and maintenance to roads, highways, and airports.
$2.9 billion for construction to roads, highways, and airports.
$13 billion for improvement, maintenance and construction of mass transit including buses, subways, trains.
$7.5 billion for improvement and maintenance of water and sewer infrastructure.
$1 billion for construction of water and sewer infrastructure.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 12, 2010, 01:57:25 PM
Since the Mideast is also creating a budget process, I invite citizens of this fine region to explore some of the cool US federal budget sims I posted in a thread on the Economics board.
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=122358.0

Try your hand at creating an ideal budget and share your results. I believe these sims can give us an idea of what works and what doesn't in making Atlasian (federal and regional) budgets workable and a fun source of debate over taxes, spending and deficits.

Give it a shot--its actually fun for political addicts like us! :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 12, 2010, 02:07:41 PM
Since the Mideast is also creating a budget process, I invite citizens of this fine region to explore some of the cool US federal budget sims I posted in a thread on the Economics board.
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=122358.0

Try your hand at creating an ideal budget and share your results. I believe these sims can give us an idea of what works and what doesn't in making Atlasian (federal and regional) budgets workable and a fun source of debate over taxes, spending and deficits.

Give it a shot--its actually fun for political addicts like us! :D

I tried them out. Thank you for putting everything together into one piece :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 12, 2010, 02:12:55 PM
Since the Mideast is also creating a budget process, I invite citizens of this fine region to explore some of the cool US federal budget sims I posted in a thread on the Economics board.
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=122358.0

Try your hand at creating an ideal budget and share your results. I believe these sims can give us an idea of what works and what doesn't in making Atlasian (federal and regional) budgets workable and a fun source of debate over taxes, spending and deficits.

Give it a shot--its actually fun for political addicts like us! :D
Thanks for posting this, Badger. I have a feeling I'll be spending a lot of time today playing with this now. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 12, 2010, 03:05:21 PM
Does this silence mean you all are okay with the Infrastructure part? If so, moving on.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 13, 2010, 12:18:09 PM
I'm pretty good with the Infrastructure portion. A-Bob, if I may ask, how did you come up with these numbers?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 13, 2010, 02:14:06 PM
I'm pretty good with the Infrastructure portion. A-Bob, if I may ask, how did you come up with these numbers?

Virginia. And then considered how many more states we had. It's pretty hard since we are neither a state nor federal government to look off of either budget


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 13, 2010, 02:19:30 PM
I'm pretty good with the Infrastructure portion. A-Bob, if I may ask, how did you come up with these numbers?

Virginia. And then considered how many more states we had. It's pretty hard since we are neither a state nor federal government to look off of either budget
If possible, do you think you could provide me with a link to where you got Virginia's budget? Or possibly just the numbers there? Thank you.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 13, 2010, 02:23:25 PM
I'm pretty good with the Infrastructure portion. A-Bob, if I may ask, how did you come up with these numbers?

Virginia. And then considered how many more states we had. It's pretty hard since we are neither a state nor federal government to look off of either budget
If possible, do you think you could provide me with a link to where you got Virginia's budget? Or possibly just the numbers there? Thank you.
http://dpb.virginia.gov/budget/budget.cfm


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 13, 2010, 03:51:34 PM
The infrastructure section seems fine to me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 13, 2010, 05:55:51 PM
The infrastructure section seems fine to me.

Since education has always been a big priority with this Assembly, shall we do this next?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 13, 2010, 06:02:35 PM
The infrastructure section seems fine to me.

Since education has always been a big priority with this Assembly, shall we do this next?

Certainly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 13, 2010, 06:07:47 PM
Well I don't have anything planned, but let's start throwing out ideas.

Starting teacher salary $40,000? Are we going to base salaries merit-based, by experience or or both?
"Small" classes (K-12) let's aim for 20-25
How much would up to date books and technology cost?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 13, 2010, 06:12:52 PM
Well I don't have anything planned, but let's start throwing out ideas.

Starting teacher salary $40,000?
Fine with me.

Quote
Are we going to base salaries merit-based, by experience or or both?
I'm interested in a combined system.

Quote
"Small" classes (K-12) let's aim for 20-25
Also fine with me. However, we should aim for something like 15-19 for K-2, perhaps.

Quote
How much would up to date books and technology cost?
I'm not sure. I guess it depends on how much you want to buy? Everything new? ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 13, 2010, 06:17:47 PM
$40,000 seems like a good start. And if someone, perhaps you Barnes can make up some system where we reward merit, experience and college education while making sure those in urban settings with tough conditions don't lose tenure just because they have bad kids. I think that's fair if we can draw it up. $40,000-$60,000.

K-12 15-20 sounds good.

Maybe we can completly replace everything over two budgets so we'll buy half things new this time around, half next time and then have a dramatic decrease in education for a while.

Anything else we should cover?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 14, 2010, 07:48:24 PM
How about, 25% of pay is based on experience, 35% is based on degree of education, and 40% is based on merit?

I'm not great with numbers, so you can draw up the specifics, A-Bob. ;)

I'd also suggest replacing all school equipment in districts that are close to, or below, the poverty line first.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 14, 2010, 07:57:15 PM
My suggestion: 40% based on experience, 35% based on degree of education, and 25% based on merit. Basically, the opposite of yours, Barnes. :P If we make salaries based more on how their students perform and less on experience or degree, teachers are going to flee currently failing schools because if they stay there, their salary would drop.

I'm going to try and look up some information on how much money states within the Mideast spend each year on education.

Something I just thought of: We're passing a budget basically every four months. Are we considering every four months to be a year or four years? I'm a bit lost on that, so some clarification would be greatly appreciated. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 14, 2010, 07:58:34 PM
My suggestion: 40% based on experience, 35% based on degree of education, and 25% based on merit. Basically, the opposite of yours, Barnes. :P If we make salaries based more on how their students perform and less on experience or degree, teachers are going to flee currently failing schools because if they stay there, their salary would drop.

Just because a teacher has been teaching a long time doesn't mean they're a good teacher...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 14, 2010, 08:01:24 PM
My suggestion: 40% based on experience, 35% based on degree of education, and 25% based on merit. Basically, the opposite of yours, Barnes. :P If we make salaries based more on how their students perform and less on experience or degree, teachers are going to flee currently failing schools because if they stay there, their salary would drop.

Just because a teacher has been teaching a long time doesn't mean they're a good teacher...
I know that. But I also don't think we should be punishing a teacher just because s/he is in a failing school.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 14, 2010, 08:05:53 PM
My suggestion: 40% based on experience, 35% based on degree of education, and 25% based on merit. Basically, the opposite of yours, Barnes. :P If we make salaries based more on how their students perform and less on experience or degree, teachers are going to flee currently failing schools because if they stay there, their salary would drop.

Just because a teacher has been teaching a long time doesn't mean they're a good teacher...
I know that. But I also don't think we should be punishing a teacher just because s/he is in a failing school.
Well, first off, I believe they're pay should be calculated based on the success of their students, not the school at large. Further more, 40%, while a large portion, is somewhat outweighed by experience and education combined.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 14, 2010, 08:19:19 PM
My suggestion: 40% based on experience, 35% based on degree of education, and 25% based on merit. Basically, the opposite of yours, Barnes. :P If we make salaries based more on how their students perform and less on experience or degree, teachers are going to flee currently failing schools because if they stay there, their salary would drop.

Just because a teacher has been teaching a long time doesn't mean they're a good teacher...
I know that. But I also don't think we should be punishing a teacher just because s/he is in a failing school.
Well, first off, I believe they're pay should be calculated based on the success of their students, not the school at large. Further more, 40%, while a large portion, is somewhat outweighed by experience and education combined.
Rewarding teachers based on the grades their students get will cause many teachers giving their students higher grades than they deserve just so they can get a better salary. They won't try and challenge their students, because if they do, their grades may drops which would result in a salary drop. Teachers would be handing out A's left and right.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 14, 2010, 08:21:51 PM
My suggestion: 40% based on experience, 35% based on degree of education, and 25% based on merit. Basically, the opposite of yours, Barnes. :P If we make salaries based more on how their students perform and less on experience or degree, teachers are going to flee currently failing schools because if they stay there, their salary would drop.

Just because a teacher has been teaching a long time doesn't mean they're a good teacher...
I know that. But I also don't think we should be punishing a teacher just because s/he is in a failing school.
Well, first off, I believe they're pay should be calculated based on the success of their students, not the school at large. Further more, 40%, while a large portion, is somewhat outweighed by experience and education combined.
Rewarding teachers based on the grades their students get will cause many teachers giving their students higher grades than they deserve just so they can get a better salary. They won't try and challenge their students, because if they do, their grades may drops which would result in a salary drop. Teachers would be handing out A's left and right.
Please, while that possibility does exist, I doubt it would ever lead to the extreme you think it would. Also, the teacher or teachers doing that would swiftly be fired. And, if you don't think that the punishment would be implemented, we could easily put it in as a provision in the budget.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 14, 2010, 08:27:46 PM
Please, while that possibility does exist, I doubt it would ever lead to the extreme you think it would. Also, the teacher or teachers doing that would swiftly be fired. And, if you don't think that the punishment would be implemented, we could easily put it in as a provision in the budget.
I actually just had a conversation with my mother over this. Why not get advice from a teacher?

"Mom, if a law was implemented where your salary was based on student performance don't you think many teachers would boost their students grades and not challenge them because they won't want to risk having a salary cut?"
"Of course teachers would. Teachers would stop challenging their students to succeed and wouldn't grade as hard as they normally would."

I know this isn't a perfect example, but I'm just trying to show you that it would exist. I'd have a very hard time agreeing with this portion of the budget with the percentages you suggested, to be honest.

Another issue: Sometimes teachers get stuck with a bad class. Last year, 6 of the 12 students in my Mom's class had IEP's. Why should she be slapped with a salary cut for that?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 14, 2010, 09:01:54 PM
Please, while that possibility does exist, I doubt it would ever lead to the extreme you think it would. Also, the teacher or teachers doing that would swiftly be fired. And, if you don't think that the punishment would be implemented, we could easily put it in as a provision in the budget.
I actually just had a conversation with my mother over this. Why not get advice from a teacher?

"Mom, if a law was implemented where your salary was based on student performance don't you think many teachers would boost their students grades and not challenge them because they won't want to risk having a salary cut?"
"Of course teachers would. Teachers would stop challenging their students to succeed and wouldn't grade as hard as they normally would."

I know this isn't a perfect example, but I'm just trying to show you that it would exist. I'd have a very hard time agreeing with this portion of the budget with the percentages you suggested, to be honest.

Another issue: Sometimes teachers get stuck with a bad class. Last year, 6 of the 12 students in my Mom's class had IEP's. Why should she be slapped with a salary cut for that?

exactly my thinking. I think there shoul be SOME portion of a salary based on merit, but I like the Governor's numbers better.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 14, 2010, 09:06:24 PM
Well, then perhaps we should make merit pay the middle percentage?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 14, 2010, 09:07:47 PM
How about 38% based on experience, 32% based on degree of education, and 30% based on merit for compromise?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 14, 2010, 09:08:45 PM
How about 38% based on experience, 32% based on degree of education, and 30% based on merit for compromise?
I'm willing to accept these numbers.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 14, 2010, 09:09:57 PM
How about 38% based on experience, 32% based on degree of education, and 30% based on merit for compromise?

I suppose these will work.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 14, 2010, 09:12:29 PM
Alright, so are we going to split funding up by class? I'm thinking higher education should be a seperate discussion from k-12.

Do we want funds to be decided like
$____science technology
$____science teachers
$____AP science classes
$____science materials
$____other


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 14, 2010, 09:16:10 PM
Alright, so are we going to split funding up by class? I'm thinking higher education should be a seperate discussion from k-12.

Do we want funds to be decided like
$____science technology
$____science teachers
$____AP science classes
$____science materials
$____other

That seems alright to me. However, we might need to clarify "other."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 14, 2010, 09:52:43 PM
Alright, so are we going to split funding up by class? I'm thinking higher education should be a seperate discussion from k-12.

Do we want funds to be decided like
$____science technology
$____science teachers
$____AP science classes
$____science materials
$____other

That seems alright to me. However, we might need to clarify "other."

Well other can change per specific class if there's anything that one would have over the over


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on August 16, 2010, 08:25:03 PM
FWIW, I think A-Bob has the right idea in terms of setting an initial budget based on a real life state (such as VA) to avoid having to reinvent the wheel. Maybe multiply the revenue amounts by the amount of "Virginias" it would take to made up the population of the entire Mideast. Take that as your "base line" present budget, then debate the potential changes for the next budget (I assume the region will do one budget for grubenatorial term, with the budget being made one "term" in advance, just as Congress in 2010 passed the FY 2011 budget.

It's a lot more complicated to do this at the regional level as there're a multitude of state tax and spending structures to try factoring in.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 16, 2010, 08:27:45 PM
Also consider this: How many years is the Virginia budget for? If we're doing each budget every four years, we'll need to multiply again by two or four.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 16, 2010, 08:28:58 PM
Also consider this: How many years is the Virginia budget for? If we're doing each budget every four years, we'll need to multiply again by two or four.

since that specific piece is so important. I think we need to discuss a national vote to decide does one month equal one month or one year as this will effect all spending and if we aren't unified in this decision everything is thrown off


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 16, 2010, 08:50:18 PM
Also consider this: How many years is the Virginia budget for? If we're doing each budget every four years, we'll need to multiply again by two or four.

since that specific piece is so important. I think we need to discuss a national vote to decide does one month equal one month or one year as this will effect all spending and if we aren't unified in this decision everything is thrown off
I think we need to consider each term as four years. That'll produce some big numbers in our budget which will scare people at first, but people will just have to be reminded that it is for four years, not one.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 16, 2010, 09:10:59 PM
Also consider this: How many years is the Virginia budget for? If we're doing each budget every four years, we'll need to multiply again by two or four.

since that specific piece is so important. I think we need to discuss a national vote to decide does one month equal one month or one year as this will effect all spending and if we aren't unified in this decision everything is thrown off
I think we need to consider each term as four years. That'll produce some big numbers in our budget which will scare people at first, but people will just have to be reminded that it is for four years, not one.

Alright. Let's hope the Senate as well as other regions as they start to creat budgets, do the same


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on August 16, 2010, 11:11:36 PM
I think that for budget purposes, it ought to be considered as four months.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on August 16, 2010, 11:46:34 PM
You can't actually define merit.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 18, 2010, 08:43:58 PM
Hey guys, we need to make some decisions. Like whether we're going by months or years, etc.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 18, 2010, 08:49:55 PM
Hey guys, we need to make some decisions. Like whether we're going by months or years, etc.

I apologize for my recent inactivity.

I'm not really sure about the length issue. I'd like to hear some ideas. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 18, 2010, 08:51:43 PM
Hey guys, we need to make some decisions. Like whether we're going by months or years, etc.

I apologize for my recent inactivity.

I'm not really sure about the length issue. I'd like to hear some ideas. ;)

I really don't care as long as we go as the same as the federal senate. Infrastructure funding is set up as something for 1 year


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 20, 2010, 07:43:19 PM
Assembly, I hate to be pushy and annoying, but we really need to get a budget finished soon. Our first decision needs to be whether we are considering four months on here 4 years or 4 months. I guess we'll just have to hope other regions and the federal government follow suit, and if they don't, I suppose we'll reform ours. After making that decision, I'd suggest appointing a certain section of the budget to all 5 Assembly members and give them a couple days to write up their parts. Then we bring them all together and discuss them. If we still have more parts to do, I guess we could assign some more out until we have a completed budget. Then we'll put it all together and vote on it.

 Does that plan sound good?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on August 20, 2010, 09:19:06 PM
Assembly, I hate to be pushy and annoying, but we really need to get a budget finished soon. Our first decision needs to be whether we are considering four months on here 4 years or 4 months. I guess we'll just have to hope other regions and the federal government follow suit, and if they don't, I suppose we'll reform ours. After making that decision, I'd suggest appointing a certain section of the budget to all 5 Assembly members and give them a couple days to write up their parts. Then we bring them all together and discuss them. If we still have more parts to do, I guess we could assign some more out until we have a completed budget. Then we'll put it all together and vote on it.

 Does that plan sound good?

I suppose so. I recommend that we consider 4 months as 4 months because it's less confusing. We deal with the budget once every 4 months, and if we consider 4 months as 4 years, that would mean that we could be dealing with 2013/4 as we speak, and the 2020 budget will be written in 2011, an idea that I don't support. Moreover, I think that the federal government itself has the same system, but I'm not speaking with certainty there.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 20, 2010, 09:31:24 PM
Alright. Four months is fourth months then. To start, let's cut infrastructure down to 1/4 of all funding


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 22, 2010, 01:57:44 AM
Sorry I didn't get on earlier - 4 months as 4 months is good with me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 22, 2010, 01:21:54 PM
Four months is also fine with me. years would get far too confusing. Also, I again apologize for my recent absence. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 25, 2010, 12:24:11 AM
So now, would we like to divy up the budget to the 5 members?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on August 26, 2010, 10:34:35 AM
So now, would we like to divy up the budget to the 5 members?

We need to resolve who's dealing with which parts of the bill, then.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 26, 2010, 12:33:07 PM
So now, would we like to divy up the budget to the 5 members?

We need to resolve who's dealing with which parts of the bill, then.

How about we all just call out what we want to work on? That way nobody has to do anything they really don't want


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 26, 2010, 11:34:13 PM
Yall pick whatever - I don't care what I get.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 27, 2010, 10:33:24 PM
Updated (Cut by 1/4)
Infrastructure
$7.3 billion for improvement and maintenance to roads, highways, and airports.
$725 million for construction to roads, highways, and airports.
$3.25 billion for improvement, maintenance and construction of mass transit including buses, subways, trains.
$1.875 billion for improvement and maintenance of water and sewer infrastructure.
$250 million for construction of water and sewer infrastructure.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on August 27, 2010, 11:11:50 PM
Seems good. I'm assuming all of the numbers are cut by 1/4?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 28, 2010, 11:23:21 PM
yup


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 29, 2010, 11:20:11 AM
Assemblymembers, how are you coming along with your chosen section of the budget? Can any rough drafts be introduced today?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 29, 2010, 03:49:05 PM
Energy
Total: $2.85 Billion
$1 Billion: Fund for alternative energy1
$1 Billion: Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure2
$500 Million: Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$250 Million: Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy
 
1This is where all projects like my "Affordable Energy and Environmental Protection Act" must draw their government funds from.

2This means making power stations that run off fossil fuels more efficient and more environmentally friendly. It also updates our electrical energy grid by making the system more efficient and less cumbersome.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 29, 2010, 03:50:24 PM
Energy
Total: $2.85 Billion
$1 Billion: Fund for alternative energy1
$1 Billion: Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure2
$500 Million: Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$250 Million: Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy
 
1This is where all projects like my "Affordable Energy and Environmental Protection Act" must draw their government funds from.

2This means making power stations that run off fossil fuels more efficient and more environmentally friendly. It also updates our electrical energy grid by making the system more efficient and less cumbersome.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 29, 2010, 04:06:18 PM
Energy
Total: $2.85 Billion
$1 Billion: Fund for alternative energy1
$1 Billion: Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure2
$500 Million: Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$250 Million: Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy
 
1This is where all projects like my "Affordable Energy and Environmental Protection Act" must draw their government funds from.

2This means making power stations that run off fossil fuels more efficient and more environmentally friendly. It also updates our electrical energy grid by making the system more efficient and less cumbersome.


What about a section for energy development loans? Besides alternative energy?

Can we set aside $5-10 billion for that? Mainly my concern is a nuclear power plant costs so much and we aren't going to get to an alernative energy society in one year or even one decade.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 29, 2010, 07:47:15 PM
Energy
Total: $2.85 Billion
$1 Billion: Fund for alternative energy1
$1 Billion: Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure2
$500 Million: Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$250 Million: Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy
 
1This is where all projects like my "Affordable Energy and Environmental Protection Act" must draw their government funds from.

2This means making power stations that run off fossil fuels more efficient and more environmentally friendly. It also updates our electrical energy grid by making the system more efficient and less cumbersome.


What about a section for energy development loans? Besides alternative energy?

Can we set aside $5-10 billion for that? Mainly my concern is a nuclear power plant costs so much and we aren't going to get to an alernative energy society in one year or even one decade.

I'm in favor of loans, however, I believe we can still make them work for alternative energy. For example, wing turbines on the Great Lakes, or solar panels in our prairies. These types of energy are already developed and are proven to work. Also, they have the positive effect of creating new, green jobs.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 29, 2010, 08:19:21 PM
Energy
Total: $2.85 Billion
$1 Billion: Fund for alternative energy1
$1 Billion: Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure2
$500 Million: Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$250 Million: Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy
 
1This is where all projects like my "Affordable Energy and Environmental Protection Act" must draw their government funds from.

2This means making power stations that run off fossil fuels more efficient and more environmentally friendly. It also updates our electrical energy grid by making the system more efficient and less cumbersome.


What about a section for energy development loans? Besides alternative energy?

Can we set aside $5-10 billion for that? Mainly my concern is a nuclear power plant costs so much and we aren't going to get to an alernative energy society in one year or even one decade.

I'm in favor of loans, however, I believe we can still make them work for alternative energy. For example, wing turbines on the Great Lakes, or solar panels in our prairies. These types of energy are already developed and are proven to work. Also, they have the positive effect of creating new, green jobs.

I'm with you, I'm just saying can you add a  section for other loans as well?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 29, 2010, 08:24:04 PM
Energy
Total: $2.85 Billion
$1 Billion: Fund for alternative energy1
$1 Billion: Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure2
$500 Million: Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$250 Million: Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy
 
1This is where all projects like my "Affordable Energy and Environmental Protection Act" must draw their government funds from.

2This means making power stations that run off fossil fuels more efficient and more environmentally friendly. It also updates our electrical energy grid by making the system more efficient and less cumbersome.


What about a section for energy development loans? Besides alternative energy?

Can we set aside $5-10 billion for that? Mainly my concern is a nuclear power plant costs so much and we aren't going to get to an alernative energy society in one year or even one decade.

I'm in favor of loans, however, I believe we can still make them work for alternative energy. For example, wing turbines on the Great Lakes, or solar panels in our prairies. These types of energy are already developed and are proven to work. Also, they have the positive effect of creating new, green jobs.

I'm with you, I'm just saying can you add a  section for other loans as well?

I know. I'll reduce the amount, however, to something like $2 Billion. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 29, 2010, 08:33:27 PM
Energy
Total: $2.85 Billion
$2 Billion: Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record and are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives.
$1 Billion: Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion: Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$500 Million: Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$250 Million: Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy

So, basically, the new section gives loans to fossil fuel emitters who have a good environmental record and are in the process of developing clean energy fuels. Thankfully, this would be many businesses in the ME.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on August 29, 2010, 11:41:18 PM
Energy
Total: $2.85 Billion
$2 Billion: Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record and are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives.
$1 Billion: Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion: Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$500 Million: Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$250 Million: Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy

So, basically, the new section gives loans to fossil fuel emitters who have a good environmental record and are in the process of developing clean energy fuels. Thankfully, this would be many businesses in the ME.

Don't you mean 4.75 billion?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 30, 2010, 06:22:33 PM
Energy
Total: $2.85 Billion
$2 Billion: Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record and are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives.
$1 Billion: Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion: Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$500 Million: Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$250 Million: Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy

So, basically, the new section gives loans to fossil fuel emitters who have a good environmental record and are in the process of developing clean energy fuels. Thankfully, this would be many businesses in the ME.

Can we change the language to - Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so. And can we move it to 3 billion? :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 30, 2010, 08:10:28 PM
Energy
Total: $2.85 Billion
$2 Billion: Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record and are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives.
$1 Billion: Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion: Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$500 Million: Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$250 Million: Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy

So, basically, the new section gives loans to fossil fuel emitters who have a good environmental record and are in the process of developing clean energy fuels. Thankfully, this would be many businesses in the ME.

Don't you mean 4.75 billion?

I do. I just forgot to change the "total" amount. :P

Energy
Total: $2.85 Billion
$2 Billion: Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record and are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives.
$1 Billion: Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion: Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$500 Million: Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$250 Million: Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy

So, basically, the new section gives loans to fossil fuel emitters who have a good environmental record and are in the process of developing clean energy fuels. Thankfully, this would be many businesses in the ME.

Can we change the language to - Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so. And can we move it to 3 billion? :)

That's great! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on August 30, 2010, 08:14:41 PM
Updated language (again):

Energy
Total: $5.85 Billion
$3 Billion: Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so.
$1 Billion: Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion: Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$500 Million: Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$250 Million: Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 01, 2010, 07:57:19 AM
Commendable work on the budget, guys! :)

I'm just curious, though. Has there been any discussion or (more importantly) communication with the GM to determine what the Region's actual revenue is? Planning on spending structure is all fine and good, but the hard decisions come from when---inevitably---there is more spending sought than revenue allows.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 01, 2010, 11:38:17 AM
Commendable work on the budget, guys! :)

I'm just curious, though. Has there been any discussion or (more importantly) communication with the GM to determine what the Region's actual revenue is? Planning on spending structure is all fine and good, but the hard decisions come from when---inevitably---there is more spending sought than revenue allows.

Good thought. That means I was right not to post my part of the budget yet--I think we do need to determine our revenue first.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 01, 2010, 12:10:48 PM
Commendable work on the budget, guys! :)

I'm just curious, though. Has there been any discussion or (more importantly) communication with the GM to determine what the Region's actual revenue is? Planning on spending structure is all fine and good, but the hard decisions come from when---inevitably---there is more spending sought than revenue allows.

Good thought. That means I was right not to post my part of the budget yet--I think we do need to determine our revenue first.

Happy to butt in 'help'. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 01, 2010, 10:17:15 PM
We figured if we decided our spending levels, then we could go onto setting taxes to have enough revenue.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 01, 2010, 10:21:30 PM
We figured if we decided our spending levels, then we could go onto setting taxes to have enough revenue.

I'm skeptical of that idea. If possible, we should know our revenue as it stands now, and base our budget on that.

It certainly wouldn't hurt if we did figure out our current revenue, anyway.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on September 02, 2010, 06:43:39 AM
We figured if we decided our spending levels, then we could go onto setting taxes to have enough revenue.

You too are a socialist, A-Bob ?!? ;) ;) ;)

BTW, congratulations to our Assemblymen for this big job.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 02, 2010, 10:37:20 AM
This is something for the Assembyl to consider looking at when writing up our own budget. Granted, we won't be doing a lot of this, like military spending, but it gives us ideas for what we need to do.

Spending ($2673.05 billion)

International affairs ($31.59 billion)
$13 billion ........ International development and humanitarian assistance (No Change)
$9.47 billion ...... International military aid (No Change)
$7.97 billion ...... Conduct of foreign affairs (No Change)
$1.15 billion ...... Foreign information and exchange activities (No Change)

General science, space, and technology ($23.97 billion)
$5.62 billion ...... National Science Foundation programs (No Change)
$3.44 billion ...... Department of Energy general science programs (No Change)
$14.91 billion ..... Space flight, research, and supporting activities (No Change)

Non-Defense Energy Spending ($2.12 billion)
$0.73 billion ...... Energy supply (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... Energy conservation and preparedness (No Change)
$0.36 billion ...... Energy information, preparedness, & regulation (No Change)

Natural resources and environment ($31.16 billion)
$5.45 billion ...... Water resources (No Change)
$9.07 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change)
$3.12 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change)
$8.42 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change)
$5.1 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change)

Agriculture ($26.02 billion)
$21.73 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$4.29 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change)

Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($6.82 billion)
$-4.28 billion ..... Federal Housing Loan Programs (No Change)
$2.17 billion ...... Postal service (No Change)
$-0.96 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$7.96 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change)
$1.93 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change)

Transportation ($70.68 billion)
$36.51 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$8.51 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.61 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$17.26 billion ..... Air Transportion (No Change)
$7.37 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)

Community and regional development ($19.1 billion)
$6.25 billion ...... Community development (No Change)
$2.86 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change)
$9.99 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education ($64.07 billion)
$38.57 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$22.27 billion ..... Higher education (No Change)
$3.23 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change)

Training, labor and unemployment ($47.81 billion)
$6.88 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change)
$1.6 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change)
$39.33 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Non-Medicare Health Spending ($253.32 billion)
$192.72 billion .... Medicaid grants (No Change)
$6.23 billion ...... State Children's Health Insurance (No Change)
$3.17 billion ...... Indian health (No Change)
$3.24 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change)
$4.7 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change)
$29.36 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change)
$3.01 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change)
$10.89 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change)

Medicare ($345.76 billion)
$182.76 billion .... Hospital insurance (HI) (No Change)
$115.14 billion .... Supplementary medical insurance (SMI) (No Change)
$46.7 billion ...... Prescription drug benefit (No Change)
$1.16 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change)

Civilian Retirement (Social Security excluded) ($72.02 billion)
$4.89 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change)
$58.22 billion ..... Federal employee retirement and disability (No Change)
$8.91 billion ...... Federal employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)

Aid to Low-Income Families ($206.78 billion)
$38.45 billion ..... Housing assistance (No Change)
$37.58 billion ..... Food stamps (No Change)
$19.3 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches) (No Change)
$38.66 billion ..... Supplemental security income (SSI) (No Change)
$18.21 billion ..... Family support payments (TANF) (No Change)
$34.05 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$13.15 billion ..... Child tax credit (No Change)
$4.8 billion ....... Child care funds (No Change)
$2.58 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families (No Change)

General Family Support ($25.62 billion)
$6.56 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance (No Change)
$2.92 billion ...... Child support and family support programs (No Change)
$16.14 billion ..... Social and family services (No Change)

Social security ($544.82 billion)
$454.4 billion ..... Old-age and survivors insurance(OASI) (No Change)
$90.42 billion ..... Disability insurance (DI) (No Change)

Administration of justice ($43.1 billion)
$11.35 billion ..... Federal law enforcement (No Change)
$10.46 billion ..... Border security and immigration (No Change)
$10.91 billion ..... Federal litigation and judicial activities (No Change)
$6.16 billion ...... Federal prison system (No Change)
$4.22 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change)

General government administration ($17.76 billion)
$3.67 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change)
$1.14 billion ...... Executive office programs (No Change)
$9.8 billion ....... IRS & other fiscal operations (No Change)
$3.15 billion ...... Other general government (No Change)

Net_interest_long ($211.08 billion)
$211.08 billion .... Net Interest (No Change)

Undistributed offsetting receipts and allowance ($-43.99 billion)
$-43.99 billion .... Undistributed offsetting receipts and allowance (No Change)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax Expenditures and Tax Cuts ($1075.13 billion)


2001 and 2003 Tax Cuts ($294.9 billion)
$116.96 billion .... Benefits for Richest 1% of Taxpayers (No Change)
$28.87 billion ..... Benefits for Next Richest 4% (No Change)
$58.92 billion ..... Benefits for Next Richest 15% (No Change)
$43.6 billion ...... Benefits for Next 20% of Taxpayers (No Change)
$46.55 billion ..... Benefits for Bottom 60% of Taxpayers (No Change)

Corporate Tax Breaks ($60.36 billion)
$15.74 billion ..... Untaxed Foreign Profits (No Change)
$9.87 billion ...... R&D Tax Breaks (No Change)
$4.05 billion ...... Energy, Mining and Timber Tax Breaks (No Change)
$9.93 billion ...... Tax Free Bonds (No Change)
$20.77 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change)
Personal Business & Investment Benefits ($86.71 billion)
$30.38 billion ..... Lower tax rates on capital gains (excluding housing) (No Change)
$28.76 billion ..... Step-up basis of capital gains at death (No Change)
$23.01 billion ..... Tax-Free Bonds (No Change)
$1.36 billion ...... Enterprise & Empowerment Zones and New Markets credit (No Change)
$3.2 billion ....... Other personal investment tax breaks (No Change)

Pension & Retirement Deductions ($168.47 billion)
$51.05 billion ..... Employer-paid Pensions (No Change)
$58.12 billion ..... 401Ks & Keogh plans (No Change)
$7.31 billion ...... IRAs (No Change)
$29.48 billion ..... Group and personal life insurance benefits (No Change)
$19.77 billion ..... Untaxed Social Security benefits (No Change)
$2.74 billion ...... Other retirement benefits (No Change)

Health Insurance Tax Benefits ($140.99 billion)
$125.69 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance (No Change)
$4.33 billion ...... Self-employed medical insurance premiums (No Change)
$1.83 billion ...... Medical Savings/Health Savings Accounts (No Change)
$9.14 billion ...... Deductibility of medical expenses (No Change)

Housing tax benefits ($163.71 billion)
$76.03 billion ..... Mortgage Interest (No Change)
$14.83 billion ..... Deductibility of property taxes on homes (No Change)
$36.27 billion ..... Capital gains exclusion on home sales (No Change)
$29.72 billion ..... Exclusion of net imputed rental income on owner-occupied homes (No Change)
$2.11 billion ...... Housing bonds & low-income housing investments (No Change)
$4.75 billion ...... Exception from passive loss rules for $25,000 of rental loss (No Change)

Other individual deductions and exemptions ($159.99 billion)
$37.89 billion ..... Charitable contributions (No Change)
$34.62 billion ..... State and local taxes (w/o home property) (No Change)
$6.55 billion ...... Soldiers and veterans tax benefits (No Change)
$5.94 billion ...... Workmen's compensation (No Change)
$14.01 billion ..... Education deductions and credits (No Change)
$32.81 billion ..... Child credit (No Change)
$2.81 billion ...... Child care credits and deductions (No Change)
$2 billion ......... Deduction for the blind and elderly (No Change)
$7.86 billion ...... Social Security benefits for disabled and survivors (No Change)
$3.76 billion ...... Untaxed foreign personal income (No Change)
$3.28 billion ...... Employee parking and transit expenses (No Change)
$1.25 billion ...... Adoption and foster care tax credits (No Change)
$5.42 billion ...... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)- revenue loss component (No Change)
$1.79 billion ...... Other fringe benefits (No Change)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

New budget is $3748.18 billion
($2673.05 billion in spending, $1075.13 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).

Deficit is $401.04 billion.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 02, 2010, 10:44:37 AM
Thank you, Governor. Unfortunately, it doesn't have anything about Mideastern revenue, only federal.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 02, 2010, 12:07:45 PM
Thank you, now we have a sorta set-up of how we should divide our funds. Over the weekend I'll be able to work on an overall picture


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 02, 2010, 12:09:12 PM
We figured if we decided our spending levels, then we could go onto setting taxes to have enough revenue.

You too are a socialist, A-Bob ?!? ;) ;) ;)

BTW, congratulations to our Assemblymen for this big job.

I was under the thinking that we'd be spending less than 500-600 billion a year :) as was our last report I believe


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 06, 2010, 10:39:15 PM
I'm halfway there, basing off of the federal budget. Is the federal budget set up for 1 year? As in 4 months in Atlasia=1 year, 4 years????


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 11, 2010, 01:56:54 PM
bumping my question


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 18, 2010, 03:15:33 PM
Here's a rough idea of what I have so far, I only took half the budget from the federal, but it gives us something to look at for now.
Spending ($0000.00 billion)

Energy ($5.85  billion)
$3 Billion ...... Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so.
$1 Billion  ...... Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion  ...... Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$0.5 Billion  ...... Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$0.25 Billion  ...... Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy)

Natural resources and environment ($00.00 billion)
$2.61 billion ...... Water resources (No Change)
$0.57 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change)
$0.5 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change)

Agriculture ($00.00 billion)
$2.95 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$1.09 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change)

Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($0.0 billion)
$0.34 billion ..... Housing Loan Programs (No Change)
$0.02 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$1.36 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change)
$0.23 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change)

Transportation ($00.00 billion)
$7.51 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$3.25 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.11 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.06 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$0.87 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)

Community and regional development ($0.0 billion)
$2.50 billion ...... Community development (No Change)
$0.96 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change)
$0.93 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education ($00.00 billion)
$19.12 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$12.97 billion ..... Higher education (No Change)
$3.03 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change)

Training, labor and unemployment ($0.00 billion)
$4.34 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change)
$0.3 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change)
$4.83 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Health Spending ($00.00 billion)
$35.87 billion .... Medicaid grants (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... State Children's Health Insurance (No Change)
$0.99 billion ...... Indian health (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change)
$0.97 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change)
$8.45 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change)
$0.89 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change)
$7.01 billion ...... Prescription drug benefit (No Change)
$0.98 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change)

Civilian Retirement (Social Security excluded) ($00.00 billion)
$0.3 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change)
$9.00 billion ..... Mideast employee retirement and disability (No Change)
$1.20 billion ...... Mideast employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 18, 2010, 03:20:49 PM
:o You've done a great job A-Bob. I'll read it closely later, but from a quick look at it, I can tell you've put a lot of work into it. Great job!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 20, 2010, 10:20:19 PM
Input? hopefully I can get the rest of the spending done by the end of this weekend, crunch the numbers, get our total then proceed to the first draft of taxes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 21, 2010, 07:47:53 PM
This is off-subject, but it's something that we probably should address fairly quickly. It looks like the Senate will be passing a law abolishing a federal drinking age, so we'll need to set one here. My personal recommendation is 18, but I'd be willing to listen to other arguments.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 21, 2010, 07:49:46 PM
This is off-subject, but it's something that we probably should address fairly quickly. It looks like the Senate will be passing a law abolishing a federal drinking age, so we'll need to set one here. My personal recommendation is 18, but I'd be willing to listen to other arguments.

Isn't the federal drinking age currently 18?

In that case, I say we keep it at 18, no more and no less.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 21, 2010, 07:58:15 PM
This is off-subject, but it's something that we probably should address fairly quickly. It looks like the Senate will be passing a law abolishing a federal drinking age, so we'll need to set one here. My personal recommendation is 18, but I'd be willing to listen to other arguments.

Isn't the federal drinking age currently 18?

In that case, I say we keep it at 18, no more and no less.
It's going to be abolished though, it appears. The vote is passing.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 21, 2010, 08:25:48 PM
This is off-subject, but it's something that we probably should address fairly quickly. It looks like the Senate will be passing a law abolishing a federal drinking age, so we'll need to set one here. My personal recommendation is 18, but I'd be willing to listen to other arguments.

Isn't the federal drinking age currently 18?

In that case, I say we keep it at 18, no more and no less.
It's going to be abolished though, it appears. The vote is passing.

I'll wait until the bill passes into law, and if it does, I'll write the bill promptly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on September 21, 2010, 08:27:30 PM
When do new members get sworn in?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 21, 2010, 08:33:20 PM

Quote from: Mideast Constitution, Article IV, Section 1
Those elected shall take office at noon Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday after their election.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 21, 2010, 09:48:55 PM
Great work, A-Bob! (I'll parse the numbers and inevitably butt in with unsolicited suggestions--as usual--later this week ;)).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 24, 2010, 11:02:59 PM

Quote from: Mideast Constitution, Article IV, Section 1
Those elected shall take office at noon Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday after their election.

So today we have swearing in correct?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 24, 2010, 11:09:26 PM
Hey everyone, make sure to swear in eventually. As the new Dean, I'll open up the vote for Speaker probably tomorrow night. I have a wedding I'll be at most of the day. Of course if we still have people not sworn in or any nominations I'll hold the vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 26, 2010, 06:07:38 PM
Assemblymen,

I will not be seeking renomination of Speaker of the Assembly, and I fully support A-bob for Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 26, 2010, 06:53:46 PM
I would also like to voice my support for A-Bob as Speaker. He's done simply a phenomenal job on the budget and deserves it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 26, 2010, 07:41:05 PM
Now that we're all sworn in we'll move on to the nomination/vote for Speaker


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 26, 2010, 09:02:50 PM
Sorry about the budget everyone. I thought I'd have time this weekend but the wedding took up all my time on Friday and Saturday and then I was working today :/


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 26, 2010, 10:54:33 PM
Will there be anymore nominations for speaker or shall we move to the vote?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on September 27, 2010, 06:58:16 AM
I support a-bob for speaker, and, yeah, we should get moving. I have a few remarks to make on the budget afterwards


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on September 27, 2010, 04:12:06 PM
I agree, let's take a vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 27, 2010, 08:04:29 PM
Ok, voting is now open for the position of Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 27, 2010, 08:05:21 PM
A-Bob


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on September 27, 2010, 08:08:38 PM
A-Bob


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 28, 2010, 01:13:55 AM
A-bob


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on September 28, 2010, 09:31:31 AM
a-bob


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 28, 2010, 08:15:25 PM
A-Bob


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 28, 2010, 08:19:45 PM
As all five members have voted I'll close the voting both.

A-Bob is elected Speaker


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 28, 2010, 08:20:22 PM
I know we have the budget to fight over, but first we still need to confirm BBF to the Superior Court. If there aren't any objections I will move it to a vote


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 28, 2010, 08:21:41 PM
I hope that we can vote on it as soon as possible.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on September 28, 2010, 08:27:43 PM
Aye on the nomination.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 28, 2010, 08:44:43 PM

I think the vote hasn't started yet.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on September 28, 2010, 08:45:24 PM
I know we have the budget to fight over, but first we still need to confirm BBF to the Superior Court. If there aren't any objections I will move it to a vote


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 28, 2010, 08:50:00 PM
I know we have the budget to fight over, but first we still need to confirm BBF to the Superior Court. If there aren't any objections I will move it to a vote

Well, that's open to interpretation. There aren't any objections yet, but I think he's just waiting if any will appear; he also said he "will" move it to a vote; had the vote been open already, I think he would have voted by now.

Anyway, I'll also vote yes once the matter is cleared.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on September 28, 2010, 08:50:58 PM
I know we have the budget to fight over, but first we still need to confirm BBF to the Superior Court. If there aren't any objections I will move it to a vote

Well, that's open to interpretation. There aren't any objections yet, but I think he's just waiting if any will appear; he also said he "will" move it to a vote; had the vote been open already, I think he would have voted by now.

Anyway, I'll also vote yes once the matter is cleared.

True. Well, if it's necessary, I certainly have no objections.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 28, 2010, 09:08:50 PM
After Big Bad Fab is voting on for Superior Court Judge, we need to develop a regional drinking age limit, since it was recently abolished at the federal level.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 28, 2010, 09:14:49 PM
After Big Bad Fab is voting on for Superior Court Judge, we need to develop a regional drinking age limit, since it was recently abolished at the federal level.

Well, it's not quite the law yet (it's still awaiting the president's signature). That said, it's a veto-proof majority, so it's bound to become law.

Anyway...I'll write the bill once we have fab confirmed. However, I won't introduce it until the time comes, if you get what I mean.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 28, 2010, 09:17:55 PM
Ok since I don't really expect opposition we will NOW move to the vote. I don't expect any problems or objections to move so swiftly.

Voting is now open on the approval of Big Bad Fab as Superior Court Judge.  This will be a 36 hour vote. Voting may also close before the 36 hour time frame once all members have cast their ballots. (I am legally allowed to do that I believe, correct?)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 28, 2010, 09:19:12 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on September 28, 2010, 09:19:52 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 28, 2010, 09:26:22 PM
Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 29, 2010, 12:17:33 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 29, 2010, 07:31:00 AM
After Big Bad Fab is voting on for Superior Court Judge, we need to develop a regional drinking age limit, since it was recently abolished at the federal level.

Don't we already have a regional drinking age I assume?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on September 29, 2010, 08:01:42 AM
aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on September 29, 2010, 12:18:14 PM
After Big Bad Fab is voting on for Superior Court Judge, we need to develop a regional drinking age limit, since it was recently abolished at the federal level.

Don't we already have a regional drinking age I assume?

Oh, correct. https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Alcohol_Age_Restrictions_Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Alcohol_Age_Restrictions_Statute)

That said, there may be some voices in the Assembly who want to reconsider this law, but we do have regional drinking laws.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 29, 2010, 01:49:11 PM
After Big Bad Fab is voting on for Superior Court Judge, we need to develop a regional drinking age limit, since it was recently abolished at the federal level.

Don't we already have a regional drinking age I assume?

Oh, correct. https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Alcohol_Age_Restrictions_Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Alcohol_Age_Restrictions_Statute)

That said, there may be some voices in the Assembly who want to reconsider this law, but we do have regional drinking laws.
My apologies. I'm quite fine with the status quo then. Does anyone else have something they'd like to add?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 29, 2010, 05:12:23 PM
After Big Bad Fab is voting on for Superior Court Judge, we need to develop a regional drinking age limit, since it was recently abolished at the federal level.

Don't we already have a regional drinking age I assume?

Oh, correct. https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Alcohol_Age_Restrictions_Statute (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Alcohol_Age_Restrictions_Statute)

That said, there may be some voices in the Assembly who want to reconsider this law, but we do have regional drinking laws.
My apologies. I'm quite fine with the status quo then. Does anyone else have something they'd like to add?

I also am fine with the status quo for the regional legal drinking age, FWIW, but those DUI provisions definitely need changed. First, there are several important drafting errors (e.g. someone operating a vehicle with a BAC between .08 and .17 BAC violates the law, but driving with a BAC above .17 does not!) Secondly, for numerous well established scientific and biological reasons (which I will elaborate in painful detail to anyone opposing such change in the law ;D), the legal BAC limit really should be reduced to .08 as a much more accurate measurement of impairment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 29, 2010, 06:23:53 PM
Can somebody put that into English for me - I've been reading over that law, and writing out all the numbers and hundredths and tenths and crap has confused my brain.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 29, 2010, 09:28:20 PM
The vote is now closed.

Roll Call
Aye 5
Nay 0

BBF has been confirmed as the Mideast Superior Court Judge.

Hurray


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on September 29, 2010, 09:30:43 PM
Hey guys, I actually have a small (hopefully non-controversial) bill I want to propose before we start the budget debate. I hope that's fine with everyone.

I'll have the actual text in a few minutes. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on September 29, 2010, 09:49:06 PM
Let the People Choose! Act

1. Whenever there is a vacancy for the Mideast Assembly, a special election shall take place no fewer than five, and no longer than fifteen days after the beginning of the vacancy.
2. The election shall last for a period of three days and shall be conducted in the same manner as a regularly scheduled regional election.
3. If there is more than one vacancy at the same time, the quota for the election shall be set to fill the needed seats.
4. If a vacancy occurs within two weeks of a regularly scheduled Assembly election, the seat shall remain vacant until the end of the term.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 29, 2010, 10:03:14 PM
One edit, can 4 actually be appointed by a governor to serve the rest of the term? If there's gridlock and an election coming up, that 5th seat will need to be held


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on September 29, 2010, 10:05:23 PM
One edit, can 4 actually be appointed by a governor to serve the rest of the term? If there's gridlock and an election coming up, that 5th seat will need to be held

I see what you mean. I suppose I can mange it. ;D

Let the People Choose! Act

1. Whenever there is a vacancy for the Mideast Assembly, a special election shall take place no fewer than five, and no longer than fifteen days after the beginning of the vacancy.
2. The election shall last for a period of three days and shall be conducted in the same manner as a regularly scheduled regional election.
3. If there is more than one vacancy at the same time, the quota for the election shall be set to fill the needed seats.
4. If a vacancy occurs within two weeks of a regularly scheduled Assembly election, no special election shall take place, and the Governor shall make a temporary appointment which shall serve until the end of the term.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 29, 2010, 10:07:23 PM
Not to bring rain on your parade, but I'm felling this bill will be very heated :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on September 29, 2010, 10:09:31 PM
Not to bring rain on your parade, but I'm felling this bill will be very heated :)

Well, I know how important the budget is to you, dear Führer Speaker, so I was just hoping to make it quick. I'm fine with a fight. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 29, 2010, 10:13:44 PM
Not to bring rain on your parade, but I'm felling this bill will be very heated :)

Well, I know how important the budget is to you, dear Führer Speaker, so I was just hoping to make it quick. I'm fine with a fight. :)

Oh not me. I helped you write the bill even though I'm still debating on how to vote on it. But you're about to strip the Governor of one of their most important powers ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on September 29, 2010, 10:16:46 PM
Not to bring rain on your parade, but I'm felling this bill will be very heated :)

Well, I know how important the budget is to you, dear Führer Speaker, so I was just hoping to make it quick. I'm fine with a fight. :)

Oh not me. I helped you write the bill even though I'm still debating on how to vote on it. But you're about to strip the Governor of one of their most important powers ;)

I know you did, A-Bob! :)

Anyway, while it may be an important responsibility, appointing whomever he chooses to an elected body isn't a power any Governor should really have.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 29, 2010, 10:18:12 PM
Not to bring rain on your parade, but I'm felling this bill will be very heated :)

Well, I know how important the budget is to you, dear Führer Speaker, so I was just hoping to make it quick. I'm fine with a fight. :)

Oh not me. I helped you write the bill even though I'm still debating on how to vote on it. But you're about to strip the Governor of one of their most important powers ;)

I know you did, A-Bob! :)

Anyway, while it may be an important responsibility, appointing whomever he chooses to an elected body isn't a power any Governor should really have.

We have it in RL, though I must say I am VERY displeased because of it via my state


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on September 29, 2010, 10:21:25 PM
Not to bring rain on your parade, but I'm felling this bill will be very heated :)

Well, I know how important the budget is to you, dear Führer Speaker, so I was just hoping to make it quick. I'm fine with a fight. :)

Oh not me. I helped you write the bill even though I'm still debating on how to vote on it. But you're about to strip the Governor of one of their most important powers ;)

I know you did, A-Bob! :)

Anyway, while it may be an important responsibility, appointing whomever he chooses to an elected body isn't a power any Governor should really have.

We have it in RL, though I must say I am VERY displeased because of it via my state

I know. We have it in mine as well.

However, if the rest of the Assembly can't agree on special elections, I'd support an alternative in the shape of Wyoming's law.

Basically, the Gov. has to choose a person from a list (of I think, three candidates?) nominated by the party the seat previously belonged to. And if the member is an independent, then the Gov. would have to pick an independent to replace him.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 29, 2010, 10:42:41 PM
Not to bring rain on your parade, but I'm felling this bill will be very heated :)

Well, I know how important the budget is to you, dear Führer Speaker, so I was just hoping to make it quick. I'm fine with a fight. :)

Oh not me. I helped you write the bill even though I'm still debating on how to vote on it. But you're about to strip the Governor of one of their most important powers ;)

I know you did, A-Bob! :)

Anyway, while it may be an important responsibility, appointing whomever he chooses to an elected body isn't a power any Governor should really have.

We have it in RL, though I must say I am VERY displeased because of it via my state

I know. We have it in mine as well.

However, if the rest of the Assembly can't agree on special elections, I'd support an alternative in the shape of Wyoming's law.

Basically, the Gov. has to choose a person from a list (of I think, three candidates?) nominated by the party the seat previously belonged to. And if the member is an independent, then the Gov. would have to pick an independent to replace him.

I actually like this best, because if the party won the seat, it's slightly unfair that the dominate party would win every single election because it's just a 1 seat match-up


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on September 29, 2010, 10:44:42 PM
Well, the problem with this is that we would have to ensure the process is at least somewhat transparent, and we would have to make sure that the parties actually remember to do it! ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on September 29, 2010, 10:47:38 PM
Well, the problem with this is that we would have to ensure the process is at least somewhat transparent, and we would have to make sure that the parties actually remember to do it! ;)

well maybe there can be a section that if you don't provide a list of names within a week a special election will be held (or the Governor picks whomever). you snooze you lose ;)

I also don't see a problem with transparency, there will be talk through PMs, but everyone will still be lobbying on the threads for specific people


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 29, 2010, 11:54:08 PM
We've already stripped enough power from the Governor... I think this is one privilege that he should hold.  If he was elected to lead this region, enough people in the region must trust his judgment.  Plus, at most it's a 2 month appointment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on September 30, 2010, 04:35:54 AM
The vote is now closed.

Roll Call
Aye 5
Nay 0

BBF has been confirmed as the Mideast Superior Court Judge.

Hurray

Without infringing the separation of powers, I allow myself to send a message of sincere thankings to this Assembly for a vote, which is a mark of trust.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 30, 2010, 10:30:31 AM
First, I want to congratulate Big Bad Fab on getting confirmed! :) I'm sure he'll do great.

Now, I have to stand with Inks on the "Let the People Choose! Act". This position has very few responsibilities, and making appointments is one of it's most exciting roles. I think that the citizens should consider when voting the appointments the Governor will make, and if you feel they will make bad appointments, don't vote for them.

On top of that, we have a short session, so the public will be able to have a say on the appointee in less than 2 months anyways. If we had more Assemblymen (not that I support that), this may be more acceptable, but when we only have 5, we really need to have all 5. It may be a little more simpler if we had a Lt. Governor who would be able to step in and break ties, but the people have spoken strongly against it.

With all that in mind, I will seriously consider vetoeing this bill if it makes it to my desk.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on September 30, 2010, 12:27:06 PM
Can somebody put that into English for me - I've been reading over that law, and writing out all the numbers and hundredths and tenths and crap has confused my brain.

The simplest way to do it is ignore the "X hundredths gram...per 210 liters of breath" (or blood), and simple think of it in terms of what laypersons know as "BAC level" ("BAC" = "Blood Alcohol Content"; the level is the same regardless of whether it comes from a breath test or blood test), with ".08 BAC" being the (adult) standard nationwide in RL for DUI. Kudos to the drafters for using the correct real life scientific and legal measurements, but I understand it can be confusing to read initially. ;)

As it reads currently, the statute basically creates a DUI offense for having a BAC between .100 to .169 BAC for adults, and between .020 and .099 BAC for those under 18. The problem again is that as written someone testing above these ranges doesn't violate the law; e.g. an adult who blows a .169 on a breath test is guilty, but another who tests .170 or more isn't). I'm sure this wasn't the drafter's intent.

Upon further review, it appears Section 3 only penalizes juveniles for prohibited alcohol concentrations in their breath, but adults only for prohibited alcohol concentrations in their blood. Although the impairment levels are the same for blood and breath, strictly read it seems to say that juveniles who fail a breath test are guilty but those who fail a blood test are not, and vice-versa for adults. Some minor corrections can fix this I think.

The statute also leaves out alcohol levels for urine tests which are frequently used by law enforcement as an alternative for breath tests for various reasons. It also doesn't include the offense of simply operating a vehicle under the influence of alcohol/drugs, which occurs quite frequently due to there being no chemical test after arrest (usually due to the arrestee refusing tests).

Again, some drafting changes can reasonably correct these loopholes. Beyond that my major concern is this law's having a .10 BAC level for DUI instead of .08 BAC.

Anyone interested in working with me to amend this law feel free to PM me. I'll be a little busy with the new GM job, but I'll gladly try to help.  ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on September 30, 2010, 09:27:02 PM
Look, I understand the Governor isn't exactly "all-powerful" in the Mideast, but, really, something needs to be done about this.

Perhaps a special election is too drastic for a two-month long term, but how about the supplemental idea of having a list prepared by the party that previously occupied the seat?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 30, 2010, 09:38:29 PM
Look, I understand the Governor isn't exactly "all-powerful" in the Mideast, but, really, something needs to be done about this.

Perhaps a special election is too drastic for a two-month long term, but how about the supplemental idea of having a list prepared by the party that previously occupied the seat?
I think any party would be lucky to find 3 people willing. I normally only get 1-2 applicants, and sometimes had to go out recruiting people for the Assembly. If someone really wants in, they'll get in. For example, if you're elected to the Assembly, I'll try and get someone similar to you politically in there. But that's going to be hard, and I'll basically pick whoever wants it and who I think would do good, which is usually one person, maybe two if I'm lucky.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on October 01, 2010, 08:16:53 AM
I support Barnes' bill, given that, well, I campaigned on it. Perhaps an interim appointment like is done in the US would be a good compromise, as was proposed during my campaign by Badger (iirc)?

However, the idea of letting the party that occupied the seat last choose the next person is atrocious. Aside from the fact that some people are independents, let's not create a party state. Fun question: if I resigned and my party, the Basque Nationalist Party, were to choose my successor, who would "they" choose?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on October 01, 2010, 09:04:14 AM
I support Barnes' bill, given that, well, I campaigned on it. Perhaps an interim appointment like is done in the US would be a good compromise, as was proposed during my campaign by Badger (iirc)?

However, the idea of letting the party that occupied the seat last choose the next person is atrocious. Aside from the fact that some people are independents, let's not create a party state. Fun question: if I resigned and my party, the Basque Nationalist Party, were to choose my successor, who would "they" choose?

Me, without any doubt ! :D
Because I'm the closest thing to a Basque here ;D

Sorry for this interruption: I couldn't refrain myself from posting this silly answer ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 01, 2010, 08:58:53 PM
I see no reason to take this power away from the Governor, and I fully intend to vote down any bill that changes the status quo on this matter.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 04, 2010, 04:59:45 AM
bumpity bumpity bump


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 04, 2010, 05:43:14 PM
If there are no objections or changes by Barnes, I'll move this to a vote


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 04, 2010, 09:15:49 PM
I honestly can't see myself signing any bill that would strip the Governor one of his most important positions.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on October 04, 2010, 09:32:55 PM
I honestly can't see myself signing any bill that would strip the Governor one of his most important positions.

Well, it's obvious that you wouldn't move to reduce your own powers :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 04, 2010, 09:46:15 PM
Without any objections, the vote is now open for the following bill:

Let the People Choose! Act

1. Whenever there is a vacancy for the Mideast Assembly, a special election shall take place no fewer than five, and no longer than fifteen days after the beginning of the vacancy.
2. The election shall last for a period of three days and shall be conducted in the same manner as a regularly scheduled regional election.
3. If there is more than one vacancy at the same time, the quota for the election shall be set to fill the needed seats.
4. If a vacancy occurs within two weeks of a regularly scheduled Assembly election, no special election shall take place, and the Governor shall make a temporary appointment which shall serve until the end of the term.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 05, 2010, 12:19:04 AM
NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 05, 2010, 09:10:54 PM
Just in case some of you didn't notice, there is a vote going. ;)

Something I'll throw out there....
What would y'alls thoughts be on keeping a government appointment, but requiring the appointee to be confirmed by the Assembly with at least 2 votes? (Keep in mind there will only be 4 Assemblymen)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on October 05, 2010, 10:39:52 PM
Just in case some of you didn't notice, there is a vote going. ;)

Something I'll throw out there....
What would y'alls thoughts be on keeping a government appointment, but requiring the appointee to be confirmed by the Assembly with at least 2 votes? (Keep in mind there will only be 4 Assemblymen)

Well, it's a moot point because the final vote is already underway. I can't say I'd support this measure, either.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on October 05, 2010, 10:43:40 PM
I apologize for my absence, but Atlasia has been taking up a little too much of my time as of late (I didn't go to bed until 1:00 AM, last night!), anyway:

AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on October 06, 2010, 06:46:10 PM
Nay.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 06, 2010, 07:09:57 PM
Abstain


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on October 07, 2010, 09:23:06 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 07, 2010, 12:17:42 PM
The final vote on Let the People Choose! Act
is...
Aye 2
Nay 2
Abstain 1

The bill has been killed due to a failure to win a majority of Aye votes.

May I bring up the idea for discussion of a Lt. Governor again? Just a thought, in cases that there will be ties (even though I abstained)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on October 07, 2010, 12:34:46 PM
jeez, not the stupid Lt. Governor sh**t again. I thought that had died.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on October 07, 2010, 12:36:44 PM
What Hashemite said...I wouldn't support reintroducing the Lt. Governor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 07, 2010, 12:50:46 PM
What Hashemite said...I wouldn't support reintroducing the Lt. Governor.

^^^ this, FWIW.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 07, 2010, 01:46:31 PM
I really don't care about the Lt. Gov. position one way or another.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 07, 2010, 02:32:19 PM
It certainly brings interesting debate. I'd probably sign it if it reached my desk, knowing that the people would get to make the final decision. It's y'alls choice whether or not to kill it in the Assembly or let the people make the final decision.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on October 07, 2010, 02:38:47 PM
I'm opposed to creating (re)creating a Lt. Governor, fwiw. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 07, 2010, 07:02:15 PM
Ok well that settles that.

Shall we move on to closing the DUI loophole/Drinking Age matter?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on October 07, 2010, 07:04:36 PM
Ok well that settles that.

Shall we move on to closing the DUI loophole/Drinking Age matter?

That's fine with me. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 07, 2010, 07:12:52 PM
Ok well that settles that.

Shall we move on to closing the DUI loophole/Drinking Age matter?

That's fine with me. :)

Do you have the specific text ready? I know we all read your statement on the loop and such of what we need.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on October 07, 2010, 07:15:53 PM
Ok well that settles that.

Shall we move on to closing the DUI loophole/Drinking Age matter?

That's fine with me. :)

Do you have the specific text ready? I know we all read your statement on the loop and such of what we need.

???

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I never remember posting about the DUI issue.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 07, 2010, 07:22:45 PM
Ok well that settles that.

Shall we move on to closing the DUI loophole/Drinking Age matter?

That's fine with me. :)

Do you have the specific text ready? I know we all read your statement on the loop and such of what we need.

???

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I never remember posting about the DUI issue.

whoops, that was Badger. Sorry about that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 09, 2010, 10:53:18 AM
Ok well that settles that.

Shall we move on to closing the DUI loophole/Drinking Age matter?

That's fine with me. :)

Do you have the specific text ready? I know we all read your statement on the loop and such of what we need.

???

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I never remember posting about the DUI issue.

whoops, that was Badger. Sorry about that.

S'ok. All us red icons look alike, I know. ;D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 12, 2010, 12:49:06 AM
Bump... did somebody already draft something for the DUI bill fix?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Barnes on October 12, 2010, 12:51:40 AM
I would just like to tell you guys how much I really enjoyed my time in the Assembly.  It really was a great experience, and I hope the best for all of you! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 12, 2010, 08:57:18 AM
I would just like to tell you guys how much I really enjoyed my time in the Assembly.  It really was a great experience, and I hope the best for all of you! :)
It's been nice working with you. I know you'll be a great and bi-partisan Senator, and will do a great job representing the Mideast. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on October 12, 2010, 06:17:32 PM
Just checking in.  If nobody would object I will take a stab at the DUI bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 12, 2010, 07:47:52 PM
Just checking in.  If nobody would object I will take a stab at the DUI bill.
It's great that you're taking initiative. :) Go for it!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 12, 2010, 09:09:10 PM
I would just like to tell you guys how much I really enjoyed my time in the Assembly.  It really was a great experience, and I hope the best for all of you! :)

:D Thanks for serving


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 12, 2010, 09:10:42 PM
Just checking in.  If nobody would object I will take a stab at the DUI bill.
It's great that you're taking initiative. :) Go for it!
Please feel free to :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on October 12, 2010, 09:23:54 PM
I would just like to tell you guys how much I really enjoyed my time in the Assembly.  It really was a great experience, and I hope the best for all of you! :)

Thank you, and good luck in the Senate.

Just checking in.  If nobody would object I will take a stab at the DUI bill.

You replaced Barnes, no? Welcome to the Assembly. Sure, feel free to try it out. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Purple State on October 13, 2010, 02:01:47 AM
As the proposed new Constitution must be ratified by the regions, I am posting this public service announcement in the threads of the regional legislatures:

Very Important Announcement

The Constitutional Convention is reaching its end, with the final two documents being voted on as we speak.

At this time, delegates and all Atlasians are welcome to offer their thoughts on an amendment to ANY part of the new Constitution, which will be considered all at once in one final amendment vote coming up in the next 48-72 hours. This means that any changes you would like to see to the current document should be offered right now.

Here is the relevant announcement in the Convention thread:

During the next 48 hours, please offer any amendments, as well as debate, that you would like to see considered for any part of the document. This is your last chance to make finishing touches to any of the more controversial changes, including dual-office holding, regional legislatures, the legislative restart, etc.

Feel free to offer opposing variations to amendments as well, which will then be brought up as a package vote.

Here is the relevant links to help you out:

Constitutional Convention thread (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=120987.0)

Constitutional Convention completed documents page (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Constitutional_Convention_Completed_Documents)

Please review the completed documents and post here or in the Convention thread with your comments, ideas or amendments. I would be happy to offer well thought out amendments on behalf of non-delegates.

This is a crucial moment in this process, as the next step is a final vote and then presentation to the regions for approval.

Thanks,
~President Purple State

Articles VII and VIII have been passed and the entire proposed Third Constitution is now nearly set. There is now just under 24 hours remaining for the proposal of amendments to any part of this document, before a final vote and presentation to the regions for the ratification process.

Please, I implore all the citizens of Atlasia, read through the completed documents page (linked in the quoted announcement above) and propose any amendments in this thread or in the Constitutional Convention thread (also linked above). Even if you don't know how to word the amendment properly, provide your thoughts and I will help you out.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on October 17, 2010, 09:35:45 PM
Here is my draft of a new DUI bill:


MIDEAST DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF AN INTOXICANT OR OTHER DRUG ACT

1.)   Definitions:

a.   In this act:

i.    "Drive" means the exercise of physical control over the speed and direction of a motor vehicle while it is in motion.

ii.    "Operate" means the physical manipulation or activation of any of the controls of a motor vehicle necessary to put it in motion.

iii.   “Motor Vehicle” means any self-propelled means of transportation, including but not limited to automobiles, motorcycles, snowmobiles, airplanes, motorboats, scooters, trucks, or any other self-propelled vehicle capable of operating on regional highways

2.)   No person may drive or operate a motor vehicle while:

a.   Under the influence of an intoxicant, a controlled substance, a controlled substance analog or any combination of an intoxicant, a controlled substance and a controlled substance analog, under the influence of any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving, or under the combined influence of an intoxicant and any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving; or

b.   The person has a prohibited alcohol concentration.

c.    A person may be charged with and a prosecutor may proceed upon a complaint based upon a violation of any combination of  Section (2) paragraph (a),  or (b) for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence. If the person is charged with violating any combination of Section (2) paragraph (a), or (b),  the offenses shall be joined. If the person is found guilty of any combination of Section (2) paragraph (a), or (b)  for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence, there shall be a single conviction for purposes of sentencing and for purposes of counting convictions under this statute. Section (2) paragraph (a), or (b)  each require proof of a fact for conviction which the others do not require.

d.    Penalties for violation of Section (2)

i.   For a first offense, shall forfeit not less than $150 nor more than $300 and a suspension of a driver’s license for not more than six months.

ii.   Shall be fined not less than $350 nor more than $1,100 and imprisoned for not more than 6 months if the number of convictions previous to the date of the current offense within a 10-year period, equals 2, and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than nine months.

iii.   Shall be fined not less than $600 nor more than $2,000 and imprisoned for not more than 12 months if the number of convictions previous to the date of the current offense within a 10-year period, equals 3 or 4 , and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 12 months.

iv.   Shall be fined not less than $1000 nor more than $3,000 and imprisoned for not more than 3 years if the number of convictions previous to the date of the current offense within a 10-year period, equals 5 or more, and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 18 months.

3.)    It is unlawful for any person to cause injury to another person by the operation of a vehicle while:

a.    Under the influence of an intoxicant, a controlled substance, a controlled substance analog or any combination of an intoxicant, a controlled substance and a controlled substance analog, under the influence of any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving, or under the combined influence of an intoxicant and any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving; or

b.    The person has a prohibited alcohol concentration.

c.   A person may be charged with and a prosecutor may proceed upon a complaint based upon a violation of any combination of  Section (2) paragraph (a), or (b), for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence. If the person is charged with violating any combination of Section (2) paragraph (a), or (b),  the offenses shall be joined. If the person is found guilty of any combination of Section (2) paragraph (a), or (b)  for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence, there shall be a single conviction for purposes of sentencing and for purposes of counting convictions under this statute. Section (2) paragraph (a), or (b),  each require proof of a fact for conviction which the others do not require.

d.   In an action under this subsection, the defendant has a defense if he or she proves by a preponderance of the evidence that the injury would have occurred even if he or she had been exercising due care and he or she had not been under the influence of an intoxicant, a controlled substance, a controlled substance analog or a combination thereof, under the influence of any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving, or under the combined influence of an intoxicant and any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving, or did not have a prohibited alcohol concentration described under Section (3) Paragraph (b).

e.    Penalties for violation of Section (3)

i.   Shall be fined not less than $600 nor more than $2,000 and imprisoned for not more than 12 months if the number of convictions, previous to the date of the current offense within a 10-year period, equals 3 or  less , and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 12 months.

ii.   Shall be fined not less than $1000 nor more than $3,000 and imprisoned for not more than 3 years if the number of convictions previous to the date of the current offense within a 10-year period, equals 4 or more, and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 18 months.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on October 17, 2010, 09:37:14 PM
4.)    If a person has not attained the legal drinking age of 18, the person may not drive or operate a motor vehicle while he or she has an alcohol concentration of more than 0.0 but not more than 0.08. One penalty for violation of this subsection is suspension of a person's operating privilege for a period of six months. If a person arrested for a violation of this subsection refuses to take a breathalyzer test, the refusal is a separate violation and the person is subject to revocation of the person's operating privilege for a period of six months.

5.)    No person may drive or operate or be on duty time with respect to a commercial motor vehicle under any of the following circumstances:

a.   Under the influence of an intoxicant, a controlled substance, a controlled substance analog or any combination of an intoxicant, a controlled substance and a controlled substance analog, under the influence of any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving, or under the combined influence of an intoxicant and any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving; or

b.   While having an alcohol concentration above 0.0. or

c.    Within 4 hours of having consumed or having been under the influence of an intoxicating beverage, regardless of its alcohol content, or

d.    While possessing an intoxicating beverage, regardless of its alcohol content. This
subdivision does not apply to possession of an intoxicating beverage if the beverage is unopened and is manifested and transported as part of a shipment.

e.    A person may be charged with and a prosecutor may proceed upon a complaint based upon a violation of any combination of  Section (5) paragraph (a), or (b), for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence. If the person is charged with violating any combination of Section (5) paragraph (a), or (b),  the offenses shall be joined. If the person is found guilty of any combination of Section (5) paragraph (a), or (b)  for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence, there shall be a single conviction for purposes of sentencing and for purposes of counting convictions under this statute. Section (5) paragraph (a), or (b),  each require proof of a fact for conviction which the others do not require.

f.   Penalties for violation of Section (5)

i.   Shall be fined not less than $600 nor more than $2,000 and imprisoned for not more than 12 months if the number of convictions, previous to the date of the current offense within a 10-year period, equals 3 or  less , and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 12 months.

ii.   Shall be fined not less than $1000 nor more than $3,000 and imprisoned for not more than 3 years if the number of convictions previous to the date of the current offense within a 10-year period, equals 4 or more, and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 18 months.

6.)    No person may cause injury to another person by the operation of a commercial motor vehicle under any of the following circumstances:

a.   Under the influence of an intoxicant, a controlled substance, a controlled substance analog or any combination of an intoxicant, a controlled substance and a controlled substance analog, under the influence of any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving, or under the combined influence of an intoxicant and any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving; or

b.   While having an alcohol concentration above 0.0. or

c.    Within 4 hours of having consumed or having been under the influence of an intoxicating beverage, regardless of its alcohol content, or

d.    While possessing an intoxicating beverage, regardless of its alcohol content. This subdivision does not apply to possession of an intoxicating beverage if the beverage is unopened and is manifested and transported as part of a shipment.

e.   Penalties for violation of Section (6)

i.   Shall be fined not less than $600 nor more than $2,000 and imprisoned for not more than 12 months if the number of convictions, previous to the date of the current offense within a 10-year period, equals 3 or  less , and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 12 months.

ii.   Shall be fined not less than $1000 nor more than $3,000 and imprisoned for not more than 3 years if the number of convictions previous to the date of the current offense within a 10-year period, equals 4 or more, and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 18 months.

f.    A person may be charged with and a prosecutor may proceed upon a complaint based upon a violation of any combination of  Section (6) paragraph (a), or (b), for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence. If the person is charged with violating any combination of Section (6) paragraph (a), or (b),  the offenses shall be joined. If the person is found guilty of any combination of Section (6) paragraph (a), or (b)  for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence, there shall be a single conviction for purposes of sentencing and for purposes of counting convictions under this statute. Section (6) paragraph (a), or (b),  each require proof of a fact for conviction which the others do not require.

7.)    If there was a minor passenger under 16 years of age in the motor vehicle at the time of the violation that gave rise to the conviction under Sections (2), Paragraph (d) subparagraph
(i)  the person shall be fined not less than $350 nor more than $1,100 and imprisoned for not less than 5 days nor more than 6 months.

8.)    If there was a minor passenger under 16 years of age in the motor vehicle at the time of the violation that gave rise to the conviction under all other sections besides Section (2), Paragraph (d), subparagraph (i)  the applicable minimum and maximum fines and imprisonment  for the conviction are doubled.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 18, 2010, 07:31:36 PM
I greatly appreciate the theroughness and legalese of this proposal. Did you base this of WI's statute, Junkie?

Still, I do have some concerns about it. First the penalties just seem too weak across the board. A maximum potential license suspension of only 18 months on a sixth or more conviction within 10 years?!? No minimum license suspension period at all? Not even the option of jail on a first offense that doesn't involve serious injury? (Keep in mind at least a suspended jail sentence is necessary to place someone on probation and thereby enforce court orders such as alcohol counseling, no alcohol consumption, community service, etc.) For that matter the law doesn't include more serious penalties for persons testing a .17 BAC or more as many states do.

Just for example, in Ohio a first offense within 6 years has maximum penalties of 6 months jail, a 3 year license suspension, and $1,000 fine. The minimum mandatory penalties for a first offense include a $375 fine, 6 months license suspension, and 3 days incarceration (which can be spent at a 72 hour driver intervention program instead of the county jail; for obvious reasons 99% of first offenders choose this option). On a second and third offense within 6 years, the mandatory jail is increased to 10 days and 30 days respectively, license suspensions raised to 1-5 years and 3-8 years respectively, and markedly increased fines. If someone tests above a .17 BAC, the mandatory jail time in all cases is doubled (including 3 days actual jail time on a first offense).

I'm not saying Ohio has all the answers, but the point here is more strict penalties than proposed here are hardly unrealistic or inappropriate.

Finally, I'd note that this law doesn't penalize a refusal of chemical testing after lawful arrest and legal notice, which would result in a cutoff of federal highway funds pursuant to a brilliant federal statute crafted after our region's current law. ;)

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/You_Can%27t_Beat_a_DUI_..._Act



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on October 18, 2010, 08:26:06 PM
Thanks Badger.  I based it somewhat on Wisconsin and also on the second DUI Mideastern statute that I believe you helped write.

As far as sixth offenses, I have no problem with more than 18 months.  I actually believe in more than that, but since the current Mideastern law only had a fine, I thought I should keep it lower to see how people react.

In Wisconsin, we do not have jail for first offenses.  I agree with this.  Most first offenses are fairly minor and I do believe in giving most first time offenders a break.

As far as minimum jail or driver's license suspension.  I did not include that because I do not believe in mandatory minimums.  I believe it takes the discretion away from prosecutors and judges who are employed to exercise discretion.  They are few and far between, but I believe there are cases when jail is not appropriate.

The aggravating situations for a first offense that might require jail (accident, commercial driver, minor in the vehicle) I believe are appropriately addressed in those areas of the statute.

Also, refusals would count against in terms of future offenses, but you are right, they do not include jail time.

If people believe that the statute could be better, I am more than open to suggestions in how to write it better.  It is my first attempt.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 18, 2010, 08:41:37 PM
Thanks Junkie.

I'm with Badger on tougher punishments expect jail for a first offense, but I'm perfectly fine with going tough on this. There's no reason to cut slack just because it happens so often right?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on October 19, 2010, 05:08:32 PM
Reasonable points. I too generally oppose mandatory sentencing laws for the same lack of discretion involved. Still, I think there's a difference between statutes which mandate years or decades in prison without option versus mandating a few months license suspension (with restricted privileges for work, school, medical needs, etc. of course), and a weekend intervention program. Both the same principle I admit, but on a far lesser scales.

Two concerns I have about not even allowing the option of jail time on a first offense: First, as I said if a judge wants to place a defendant on probation for a couple years with conditions they attend alcohol counseling, abstain from booze, have no repeat offenses, etc., that would require at least the option of imposing a suspended jail sentence to enforce those conditions.

Secondly, with the former point in mind this only covers a first offense within 10 years. A judge sentencing a defendant with several lifetime DUI's all 11 + years old can't impose more than a 6 month license suspension and $300 fine. No probation. No alcohol counseling. No mandated sobriety. Nada.

Again, I see your point about not wanting to limit the flexability of courts and prosecutors with too much mandatory sentencing, Junkie, but doesn't prohibiting even the option of jail and/or probation on a first offense in 10 years create the same lack of judicial discretion?

While I'm glad to see you're willing to consider > 18 months for 6th in a decade offenders, I gotta say I believe limiting the maximum potential suspension for other multiple offenders to a year or less just doesn't seriously address the problem.

I just noticed a possible drafting error in the language used to define prior offenses. The phrase: "...if the number of convictions previous to the date of the current offense within a 10-year period, equals 2..." in Section 2(d)(ii) means the penalties would only apply on a third offense (i.e. they had two prior convictions before picking up their latest offense). I assume you meant that section to apply to second offenders, right? ;) For that matter, was that the intent using the same language in lines iii and iv (e.g. penalties in paragraph iii should apply to 3rd and 4th time offenders rather than 4th and 5th time offenders as the proposal currently reads)?

Here's another fly in the ointment: By federal law (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Atlasian_National_DUI_Act) the minimum fine for a first offense must be at least $500, and $1000 for all subsequent offenses. Otherwise the region will lose 10% of federal highway funding. We don't want to deal with that, especially with a budget coming. ;)

One last suggestion: It may behove to add a single line stating that this bill does not supercede and is consolidated with The Mideast Drunk Driving Reform Bill (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=82716.msg2192477#msg2192477). This would not change whatever the penalties the Assembly decides on, but would continue to criminalize the refusal of breath testing after lawful arrest and notice of the consequences with the same penalties as a DUI offense. Oh, and it will also keep the region from again losing 10% of our federal highway funds under the federal "You Can't Beat a DUI...." law.

In summary, IMHO this proposal needs amended to at least:
a) Allow at least the option of jail (suspended for probation or otherwise) on a first offense;
b) Strongly increase potential license suspensions, especially for repeat offenders; and
c) Comply with federal mandates.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 22, 2010, 09:49:52 PM
That's a lot to read.... lol.  I'll read that later.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on October 23, 2010, 08:17:27 AM
That's a lot to read.... lol.  I'll read that later.

I agree.  It grew as I tried to deal with all the issues.  I apparently haven't gotten them all...just look at Badger's comments.  One of the reasons I love him is that he is often right.

I agree with the refusal comment.  We should comply with Federal law.  Either of the two approaches will work.

The points as to increasing penalties is also sound.  Maybe we should change "10 years" to "lifetime" after the second offense.

In terms of the first offense, in Wisconsin it is a municipal violation, not a crime, and their are benefits to that.  We use resumption of the driver's license to enforce compliance with treatment, et. al., instead of probation.  If people don't like it, how about stealing something from Illinois where first offenses are expunged from the record upon successful completion (but still count for future offenses).  In that way, first time offenders don't get saddled with a criminal conviction if they take the treatment they clearly need, but we do not let anyone take advantage of the system and become perpetual drunk drivers.

Let me know what you think.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 23, 2010, 12:18:53 PM
That's a lot to read.... lol.  I'll read that later.

I agree.  It grew as I tried to deal with all the issues.  I apparently haven't gotten them all...just look at Badger's comments.  One of the reasons I love him is that he is often right.

I agree with the refusal comment.  We should comply with Federal law.  Either of the two approaches will work.

The points as to increasing penalties is also sound.  Maybe we should change "10 years" to "lifetime" after the second offense.

In terms of the first offense, in Wisconsin it is a municipal violation, not a crime, and their are benefits to that.  We use resumption of the driver's license to enforce compliance with treatment, et. al., instead of probation.  If people don't like it, how about stealing something from Illinois where first offenses are expunged from the record upon successful completion (but still count for future offenses).  In that way, first time offenders don't get saddled with a criminal conviction if they take the treatment they clearly need, but we do not let anyone take advantage of the system and become perpetual drunk drivers.

Let me know what you think.

I think the IL law you suggested is a good idea. Especially for the people that this truly will only happen once and they are generally good people, and it isn't letting them off since they'll still have to go through classes or serve time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 24, 2010, 12:26:49 PM
I'm going to give more time on this debate 1) It's a long read 2) With the suggestions that come in, Junkie, are you going to be modifying the bill?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on October 24, 2010, 05:20:34 PM
I will be making some of the changes we have talked about.  Please give me time, as writing this thing is a little like writing computer code.  I have to go line by line to make sure it still makes sense.  As Badger pointed out, I already missed one area, so I am trying to fix that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 24, 2010, 05:22:54 PM
While this is likely to take a long time, as Junkie pointed out. I would like to suggest quickly debating and voting on the election law Teddy has proposed for all regions to prevent any crisis' like the Northeast.

With no objections I'll bring forward the bill


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 25, 2010, 03:20:41 PM
I know we have another bill being discussed, but I'd also like to bring this bill to the Assembly's attention that is currently passing in the Pacific:

Quote
Educational Incentives Act

1.The Mideast will provide funding for the college tuition of students that take math or science-related degrees, up to a sum of $10,000 per annum, for up to four years of college.

1.1 What constitutes a math or science-related degree shall be decided by the Mideast Department of Education in case of a dispute.

1.2 If the college tuition costs less than the maximum $10,000 figure per annum, the students will not be granted the maximum figure.

1.3 In the event that college tuition exceeds the $10,000 per annum figure, the student may apply for additional assisstance, to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

2. This program will run for six years, and may be renewed or altered at expiration.

3. This legislation shall be funded by a $0.25 levy on cigarettes.

I made a modification on what would be taxed. The Pacific is doing gasoline, but I find cigarettes more suitable. This way, we're killing two birds with one stones. We're encouraging Mideast residents to stop smoking by making it more expensive while also providing incentives for students to take math or science classes.

I am perfectly open to any modifications. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on October 25, 2010, 04:28:57 PM
a. I'm a bit uneasy with creating a sort of special distinction for math/science students, potentially at the expense of art, liberal art or social science students. Does the region want to give the message that math and science students are better, smarter and worth supporting over others?

b. Do we want to provide funding for the education of really rich kids whose mom and dads have more than enough cash on their own?

c. I'm not sure, but does the region have an equivalent of OSAP (see: https://osap.gov.on.ca/OSAPPortal/en/Home/index.htm)? If not, that would be preferable to this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 25, 2010, 04:28:58 PM
I'd be open to it...however that is a lot of money we are talking about and I'm not sure cigarettes taxes can pay for huge sums like that. Plus, with the budget we have a legislative reboot on spending really. So this can just be instead, placed in the budget since we don't have taxes or spending completly set up yet anyways


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 26, 2010, 08:56:02 PM
a. I'm a bit uneasy with creating a sort of special distinction for math/science students, potentially at the expense of art, liberal art or social science students. Does the region want to give the message that math and science students are better, smarter and worth supporting over others?

b. Do we want to provide funding for the education of really rich kids whose mom and dads have more than enough cash on their own?

a. While I certainly believe other subjects are important (even I won't be taking math or science), it is becoming increasingly difficult to get students to major in these subjects. Two graduating students from my school last year is planning on majoring in math/science. Imagine how much higher that number would be with an incentive like this.

b. You make an excellent point, Hashemite. Perhaps including it only for families with an income of less than $250,000?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 27, 2010, 08:24:04 PM
a. I'm a bit uneasy with creating a sort of special distinction for math/science students, potentially at the expense of art, liberal art or social science students. Does the region want to give the message that math and science students are better, smarter and worth supporting over others?

I'm opposed for this reason.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 27, 2010, 08:24:31 PM
While this is likely to take a long time, as Junkie pointed out. I would like to suggest quickly debating and voting on the election law Teddy has proposed for all regions to prevent any crisis' like the Northeast.

With no objections I'll bring forward the bill

What bill is this?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 29, 2010, 06:37:07 PM
While this is likely to take a long time, as Junkie pointed out. I would like to suggest quickly debating and voting on the election law Teddy has proposed for all regions to prevent any crisis' like the Northeast.

With no objections I'll bring forward the bill

What bill is this?

Am I dreaming this up? I swear I saw a bill Teddy laid out for the Northeast about allowing the SoFE to open the voting booth, though I can't track it down...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 29, 2010, 06:48:18 PM
Agenda:

MIDEAST DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF AN INTOXICANT OR OTHER DRUG ACT
a.   Junkie will introduce the rewritten version after the previous debate over the bill, suggestions, and other comments given.
b.   Debate the final version (or revise again)
c.   Vote

Educational Incentives Act
a.   Bring forward the bill to debate with no objections since debate has ceased for over 48 hours in about two hours (due to Inks’ last comment)
b.   Allow for the modification or amending of the bill
c.   Consider not voting in order to place this in the budget (or specify in the bill that this will not be re-booted in the final version of the budget)

The Budget
a.   Complete spending draft
b.   Complete revenue draft
c.   Debate/Revise/Amend
d.   Vote

Sound good everyone?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on October 29, 2010, 06:52:22 PM
Agenda:

MIDEAST DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF AN INTOXICANT OR OTHER DRUG ACT
a.   Junkie will introduce the rewritten version after the previous debate over the bill, suggestions, and other comments given.
b.   Debate the final version (or revise again)
c.   Vote

Educational Incentives Act
a.   Bring forward the bill to debate with no objections since debate has ceased for over 48 hours in about two hours (due to Inks’ last comment)
b.   Allow for the modification or amending of the bill
c.   Consider not voting in order to place this in the budget (or specify in the bill that this will not be re-booted in the final version of the budget)

The Budget
a.   Complete spending draft
b.   Complete revenue draft
c.   Debate/Revise/Amend
d.   Vote

Sound good everyone?


Yes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 30, 2010, 02:09:14 PM
The following has been brought to a vote. The vote will last 48 hours.

Educational Incentives Act

1.The Mideast will provide funding for the college tuition of students that take math or science-related degrees, up to a sum of $10,000 per annum, for up to four years of college.

1.1 What constitutes a math or science-related degree shall be decided by the Mideast Department of Education in case of a dispute.

1.2 If the college tuition costs less than the maximum $10,000 figure per annum, the students will not be granted the maximum figure.

1.3 In the event that college tuition exceeds the $10,000 per annum figure, the student may apply for additional assisstance, to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

2. This program will run for six years, and may be renewed or altered at expiration.

3. This legislation shall be funded by a $0.25 levy on cigarettes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on October 30, 2010, 06:47:19 PM
Agenda:

MIDEAST DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF AN INTOXICANT OR OTHER DRUG ACT
a.   Junkie will introduce the rewritten version after the previous debate over the bill, suggestions, and other comments given.
b.   Debate the final version (or revise again)
c.   Vote

Educational Incentives Act
a.   Bring forward the bill to debate with no objections since debate has ceased for over 48 hours in about two hours (due to Inks’ last comment)
b.   Allow for the modification or amending of the bill
c.   Consider not voting in order to place this in the budget (or specify in the bill that this will not be re-booted in the final version of the budget)

The Budget
a.   Complete spending draft
b.   Complete revenue draft
c.   Debate/Revise/Amend
d.   Vote

Sound good everyone?


Yes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on October 30, 2010, 06:48:39 PM
As far as the Educational Incentives Act --

Aye



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 30, 2010, 08:45:05 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 30, 2010, 11:01:00 PM
While we wait for the votes to come in, I'll bring forward the latest spending draft (not including tax cuts)

Spending ($196.40 billion)

Energy ($5.85  billion)
$3 Billion ...... Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so.
$1 Billion  ...... Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion  ...... Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$0.5 Billion  ...... Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$0.25 Billion  ...... Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy)

Natural resources and environment ($5.21 billion)
$2.61 billion ...... Water resources (No Change)
$0.57 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change)
$0.5 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change)

Agriculture ($4.04 billion)
$2.95 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$1.09 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change)

Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($1.95 billion)
$0.34 billion ..... Housing Loan Programs (No Change)
$0.02 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$1.36 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change)
$0.23 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change)

Transportation ($14.72 billion)
$8.01 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$3.25 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.11 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.06 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$0.87 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)

Community and regional development ($4.39 billion)
$2.50 billion ...... Community development (No Change)
$0.96 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change)
$0.93 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education ($35.12 billion)
$19.12 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$12.97 billion ..... Higher education (No Change)
$3.03 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change)

Training, labor and unemployment ($9.37 billion)
$4.34 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change)
$0.2 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change)
$4.83 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Health Spending ($58.85 billion)
$35.87 billion .... Medicaid grants (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... State Children's Health Insurance (No Change)
$0.59 billion ...... Indian health (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change)
$0.97 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change)
$8.45 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change)
$0.89 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change)
$7.01 billion ...... Prescription drug benefit (No Change)
$0.98 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change)

Civilian Retirement ($10.05 billion)
$0.3 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change)
$8.50 billion ..... Mideast employee retirement and disability (No Change)
$1.70 billion ...... Mideast employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)

Aid to Low-Income Families ($26.00 billion)
$6.01 billion ..... Housing assistance (No Change)
$4.33 billion ..... Food stamps (No Change)
$2.3 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches) (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Family support payments (TANF) (No Change)
$7.01 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$1.85 billion ..... Child tax credit (No Change)
$0.99 billion ....... Child care funds (No Change)
$0.18 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families (No Change)

General Family Support ($5.39 billion)
$1.32 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance (No Change)
$0.33 billion ...... Child support and family support programs (No Change)
$3.74 billion ..... Social and family services (No Change)

Administration of justice ($12.45 billion)
$7.35 billion ..... Regional law enforcement and security (No Change)
$2.21 billion ..... Regional litigation and judicial activities (No Change)
$1.89 billion ...... Regional prison system (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change)

General government administration ($3.01 billion)
$0.31 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change)
$0.10 billion ...... Executive office programs (No Change)
$2.05 billion ....... Fiscal operations (No Change)
$0.55 billion ...... Other general government (No Change)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 30, 2010, 11:07:28 PM
This is looking really good, soon to be Governor A-Bob. :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on October 31, 2010, 08:28:02 AM
The following has been brought to a vote. The vote will last 48 hours.

Educational Incentives Act

1.The Mideast will provide funding for the college tuition of students that take math or science-related degrees, up to a sum of $10,000 per annum, for up to four years of college.

1.1 What constitutes a math or science-related degree shall be decided by the Mideast Department of Education in case of a dispute.

1.2 If the college tuition costs less than the maximum $10,000 figure per annum, the students will not be granted the maximum figure.

1.3 In the event that college tuition exceeds the $10,000 per annum figure, the student may apply for additional assisstance, to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

2. This program will run for six years, and may be renewed or altered at expiration.

3. This legislation shall be funded by a $0.25 levy on cigarettes.

NAY

Work still has to be done on this, and I don't know why it came up to a vote so quickly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 31, 2010, 10:13:35 AM
The following has been brought to a vote. The vote will last 48 hours.

Educational Incentives Act

1.The Mideast will provide funding for the college tuition of students that take math or science-related degrees, up to a sum of $10,000 per annum, for up to four years of college.

1.1 What constitutes a math or science-related degree shall be decided by the Mideast Department of Education in case of a dispute.

1.2 If the college tuition costs less than the maximum $10,000 figure per annum, the students will not be granted the maximum figure.

1.3 In the event that college tuition exceeds the $10,000 per annum figure, the student may apply for additional assisstance, to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

2. This program will run for six years, and may be renewed or altered at expiration.

3. This legislation shall be funded by a $0.25 levy on cigarettes.

NAY

Work still has to be done on this, and I don't know why it came up to a vote so quickly.

debate was done for 48 hours and nobody brought forth or said they would bring forth an amendment or modification like we have going with Junkie's bil


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 31, 2010, 05:20:48 PM
Guys, I really don't see myself voting for this.  I'm not a solid "NAY", so if you guys want to sway me, give it your best shot.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 31, 2010, 05:24:03 PM
Guys, I really don't see myself voting for this.  I'm not a solid "NAY", so if you guys want to sway me, give it your best shot.
With less and less students pursuing the math and science fields, our nation is quickly falling behind in these fields, something that must be stopped. We are not discouraging students from pursuing a career in the arts, heck, that's what I'll be doing. We're simply trying to bring up the sagging number of students in a field that is vital to the growth of our economy as well as technological advancements.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on October 31, 2010, 06:08:37 PM
Guys, I really don't see myself voting for this.  I'm not a solid "NAY", so if you guys want to sway me, give it your best shot.

I'm not a solid Aye, but as tmth said, there should at least be some incentive to go into this field so we don't fall behind as a region or nation in technological developments in math, science, etc.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on October 31, 2010, 08:27:09 PM
Guys, I really don't see myself voting for this.  I'm not a solid "NAY", so if you guys want to sway me, give it your best shot.

Me neither, but this legislation in this shape will bankrupt us by funding the educations of wealthy people's kids who don't need regional funding and scholarships. Nobody realizes that, no?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 31, 2010, 08:28:33 PM
Off subject, but friends, we now have a regional board!!! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 01, 2010, 07:33:40 AM
Guys, I really don't see myself voting for this.  I'm not a solid "NAY", so if you guys want to sway me, give it your best shot.

Me neither, but this legislation in this shape will bankrupt us by funding the educations of wealthy people's kids who don't need regional funding and scholarships. Nobody realizes that, no?

I had the same concerns. However, as the funding comes from a tax on smokes (which as a smoker would cost me more money) it will be a self-contained, self-funded project.  This is of course the intelligent way to increase government spending.  And as one of favorite politicians stated, taxing something you would just as soon have less of is not inviolation of my conservative leanings.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hash on November 01, 2010, 11:23:15 AM
Maybe, but regardless, we should not be funding the education of kids who don't need any help because their parents are very wealthy as it is.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 01, 2010, 11:33:41 AM
While we wait for the votes to come in, I'll bring forward the latest spending draft (not including tax cuts)

Spending ($196.40 billion)

Energy ($5.85  billion)
$3 Billion ...... Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so.
$1 Billion  ...... Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion  ...... Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$0.5 Billion  ...... Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$0.25 Billion  ...... Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy)

Natural resources and environment ($5.21 billion)
$2.61 billion ...... Water resources (No Change)
$0.57 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change)
$0.5 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change)

Agriculture ($4.04 billion)
$2.95 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$1.09 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change)

Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($1.95 billion)
$0.34 billion ..... Housing Loan Programs (No Change)
$0.02 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$1.36 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change)
$0.23 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change)

Transportation ($14.72 billion)
$8.01 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$3.25 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.11 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.06 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$0.87 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)

Community and regional development ($4.39 billion)
$2.50 billion ...... Community development (No Change)
$0.96 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change)
$0.93 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education ($35.12 billion)
$19.12 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$12.97 billion ..... Higher education (No Change)
$3.03 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change)

Training, labor and unemployment ($9.37 billion)
$4.34 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change)
$0.2 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change)
$4.83 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Health Spending ($58.85 billion)
$35.87 billion .... Medicaid grants (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... State Children's Health Insurance (No Change)
$0.59 billion ...... Indian health (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change)
$0.97 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change)
$8.45 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change)
$0.89 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change)
$7.01 billion ...... Prescription drug benefit (No Change)
$0.98 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change)

Civilian Retirement ($10.05 billion)
$0.3 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change)
$8.50 billion ..... Mideast employee retirement and disability (No Change)
$1.70 billion ...... Mideast employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)

Aid to Low-Income Families ($26.00 billion)
$6.01 billion ..... Housing assistance (No Change)
$4.33 billion ..... Food stamps (No Change)
$2.3 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches) (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Family support payments (TANF) (No Change)
$7.01 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$1.85 billion ..... Child tax credit (No Change)
$0.99 billion ....... Child care funds (No Change)
$0.18 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families (No Change)

General Family Support ($5.39 billion)
$1.32 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance (No Change)
$0.33 billion ...... Child support and family support programs (No Change)
$3.74 billion ..... Social and family services (No Change)

Administration of justice ($12.45 billion)
$7.35 billion ..... Regional law enforcement and security (No Change)
$2.21 billion ..... Regional litigation and judicial activities (No Change)
$1.89 billion ...... Regional prison system (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change)

General government administration ($3.01 billion)
$0.31 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change)
$0.10 billion ...... Executive office programs (No Change)
$2.05 billion ....... Fiscal operations (No Change)
$0.55 billion ...... Other general government (No Change)


Impressive work, you guys. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 01, 2010, 02:35:49 PM
Maybe, but regardless, we should not be funding the education of kids who don't need any help because their parents are very wealthy as it is.
The lack of students in these fields isn't just a problem among the poor, but also the rich.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 01, 2010, 04:57:52 PM
Maybe, but regardless, we should not be funding the education of kids who don't need any help because their parents are very wealthy as it is.
The lack of students in these fields isn't just a problem among the poor, but also the rich.

And for the rich. My dad makes around $165,000 (a lot less right now because he's starting his own business) but both my sister goes to colleges that cost of 50k a year. You have to keep in my student debts and how many kids these "rich" people have and this goes for 4 years.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on November 01, 2010, 06:45:52 PM
I'm undecided. I like the idea of the bill, but as Hashemite said:

(1) we don't need to fund the education of people who don't need extra funding;
(2) I'm not enthusiastic about the math/science "focus" of this bill. As Hashemite said, are we considering such students to be "better"/more worthy of being funded than other students?

On second thought, I'll vote no. We do need to work more on this bill before I can support it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 01, 2010, 07:01:41 PM
Okay.  I know everyone has been holding their breath.  Here goes:


MIDEAST DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF AN INTOXICANT OR OTHER DRUG ACT

1.)   Definitions:

a.   In this act:

i.    "Drive" means the exercise of physical control over the speed and direction of a motor vehicle while it is in motion.

ii.    "Operate" means the physical manipulation or activation of any of the controls of a motor vehicle necessary to put it in motion.

iii.   “Motor Vehicle” means any self-propelled means of transportation, including but not limited to automobiles, motorcycles, snowmobiles, airplanes, motorboats, scooters, trucks, or any other self-propelled vehicle capable of operating on regional highways

2.)   No person may drive or operate a motor vehicle while:

a.   Under the influence of an intoxicant, a controlled substance, a controlled substance analog or any combination of an intoxicant, a controlled substance and a controlled substance analog, under the influence of any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving, or under the combined influence of an intoxicant and any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving; or

b.   The person has a prohibited alcohol concentration.

c.    A person may be charged with and a prosecutor may proceed upon a complaint based upon a violation of any combination of  Section (2) paragraph (a),  or (b) for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence. If the person is charged with violating any combination of Section (2) paragraph (a), or (b),  the offenses shall be joined. If the person is found guilty of any combination of Section (2) paragraph (a), or (b)  for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence, there shall be a single conviction for purposes of sentencing and for purposes of counting convictions under this statute. Section (2) paragraph (a), or (b)  each require proof of a fact for conviction which the others do not require.

d.    Penalties for violation of Section (2)

i.   For a first offense, shall forfeit not less than $500 nor more than $600, a suspension of a driver’s license for not more than six months, and successfully complete a court appointed alcohol treatment program.  Failure to complete the program within the time period determined by the court will result in imprisonment for not more than 30 days.  Successful completion of the program will result in expungement of the conviction, except that it will remain on the individual’s driving record for purposes of counting under Section (2) paragraph (d).

ii.   Shall be fined not less than $1000 nor more than $1,500 and imprisoned for not more than 6 months if the number of convictions up to and including to the date of the current offense within a 10-year period, equals 2, and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than nine months.

iii.   Shall be fined not less than $1000 nor more than $2,000 and imprisoned for not more than 12 months if the number of convictions up to and including to the date of the current offense, equals 3 , and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 12 months.

iv.   Shall be fined not less than $1000 nor more than $2,000 and imprisoned for not more than 2 years if the number of convictions up to and including to the date of the current offense, equals 4 , and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 24 months.

v.   Shall be fined not less than $1000 nor more than $2,000 and imprisoned for not more than 5 years if the number of convictions up to and including to the date of the current offense, equals 5 , and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 36 months.

vi.   Shall be fined not less than $1000 nor more than $2,000 and imprisoned for not more than 10 years if the number of convictions up to and including to the date of the current offense, equals 6 or more , and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 48 months.

3.)    It is unlawful for any person to cause injury to another person by the operation of a vehicle while:

a.    Under the influence of an intoxicant, a controlled substance, a controlled substance analog or any combination of an intoxicant, a controlled substance and a controlled substance analog, under the influence of any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving, or under the combined influence of an intoxicant and any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving; or

b.    The person has a prohibited alcohol concentration.

c.   A person may be charged with and a prosecutor may proceed upon a complaint based upon a violation of any combination of  Section (2) paragraph (a), or (b), for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence. If the person is charged with violating any combination of Section (2) paragraph (a), or (b),  the offenses shall be joined. If the person is found guilty of any combination of Section (2) paragraph (a), or (b)  for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence, there shall be a single conviction for purposes of sentencing and for purposes of counting convictions under this statute. Section (2) paragraph (a), or (b),  each require proof of a fact for conviction which the others do not require.

d.   In an action under this subsection, the defendant has a defense if he or she proves by a preponderance of the evidence that the injury would have occurred even if he or she had been exercising due care and he or she had not been under the influence of an intoxicant, a controlled substance, a controlled substance analog or a combination thereof, under the influence of any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving, or under the combined influence of an intoxicant and any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving, or did not have a prohibited alcohol concentration described under Section (3) Paragraph (b).

e.    Penalties for violation of Section (3)

i.   Shall be fined not less than $1000 nor more than $2,000 and imprisoned for not more than 3 years if the number of convictions, previous to the date of the current offense, equals 3 or  less , and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 3 years.

ii.   Shall be fined not less than $1000 nor more than $3,000 and imprisoned for not more than 10 years if the number of convictions previous to the date of the current offense, equals 4 or more, and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 5 years.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 01, 2010, 07:03:23 PM
4.)    If a person has not attained the legal drinking age of 18, the person may not drive or operate a motor vehicle while he or she has an alcohol concentration of more than 0.01 but not more than 0.08. One penalty for violation of this subsection is suspension of a person's operating privilege for a period of six months. If a person arrested for a violation of this subsection refuses to take a breathalyzer test, the refusal is a separate violation and the person is subject to revocation of the person's operating privilege for a period of six months.

5.)    No person may drive or operate or be on duty time with respect to a commercial motor vehicle under any of the following circumstances:

a.   Under the influence of an intoxicant, a controlled substance, a controlled substance analog or any combination of an intoxicant, a controlled substance and a controlled substance analog, under the influence of any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving, or under the combined influence of an intoxicant and any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving; or

b.   While having an alcohol concentration above 0.0. or

c.    Within 4 hours of having consumed or having been under the influence of an intoxicating beverage, regardless of its alcohol content, or

d.    While possessing an intoxicating beverage, regardless of its alcohol content. This subdivision does not apply to possession of an intoxicating beverage if the beverage is unopened and is manifested and transported as part of a shipment.

e.    A person may be charged with and a prosecutor may proceed upon a complaint based upon a violation of any combination of  Section (5) paragraph (a), or (b), for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence. If the person is charged with violating any combination of Section (5) paragraph (a), or (b),  the offenses shall be joined. If the person is found guilty of any combination of Section (5) paragraph (a), or (b)  for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence, there shall be a single conviction for purposes of sentencing and for purposes of counting convictions under this statute. Section (5) paragraph (a), or (b),  each require proof of a fact for conviction which the others do not require.

f.   Penalties for violation of Section (5)

i.   Shall be fined not less than $1000 nor more than $2,000 and imprisoned for not more than 12 months if the number of convictions, previous to the date of the current offense, equals 3 or  less , and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 18 months.

ii.   Shall be fined not less than $1000 nor more than $3,000 and imprisoned for not more than 3 years if the number of convictions previous to the date of the current offense, equals 4 or more, and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 10 years.

6.)    No person may cause injury to another person by the operation of a commercial motor vehicle under any of the following circumstances:

a.   Under the influence of an intoxicant, a controlled substance, a controlled substance analog or any combination of an intoxicant, a controlled substance and a controlled substance analog, under the influence of any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving, or under the combined influence of an intoxicant and any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving; or

b.   While having an alcohol concentration above 0.0. or

c.    Within 4 hours of having consumed or having been under the influence of an intoxicating beverage, regardless of its alcohol content, or

d.    While possessing an intoxicating beverage, regardless of its alcohol content. This subdivision does not apply to possession of an intoxicating beverage if the beverage is unopened and is manifested and transported as part of a shipment.

e.   Penalties for violation of Section (6)

i.   Shall be fined not less than $1000 nor more than $2,000 and imprisoned for not more than 3 years if the number of convictions, previous to the date of the current offense, equals 3 or  less , and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 3 years.

ii.   Shall be fined not less than $1000 nor more than $3,000 and imprisoned for not more than 10 years if the number of convictions previous to the date of the current offense, equals 4 or more, and a suspension of driver’s license for not more than 5 years.

f.    A person may be charged with and a prosecutor may proceed upon a complaint based upon a violation of any combination of  Section (6) paragraph (a), or (b), for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence. If the person is charged with violating any combination of Section (6) paragraph (a), or (b),  the offenses shall be joined. If the person is found guilty of any combination of Section (6) paragraph (a), or (b)  for acts arising out of the same incident or occurrence, there shall be a single conviction for purposes of sentencing and for purposes of counting convictions under this statute. Section (6) paragraph (a), or (b),  each require proof of a fact for conviction which the others do not require.

7.)    If there was a minor passenger under 16 years of age in the motor vehicle at the time of the violation that gave rise to the conviction under Sections (2), Paragraph (d) subparagraph
(i)  the person shall be fined not less than $350 nor more than $1,100 and imprisoned for not less than 5 days nor more than 6 months.

8.)    If there was a minor passenger under 16 years of age in the motor vehicle at the time of the violation that gave rise to the conviction under all other sections besides Section (2), Paragraph (d), subparagraph (i)  the applicable minimum and maximum fines and imprisonment  for the conviction are doubled.

9.)    After lawful arrest for DUI and proper request by a peace officer pursuant to Mideast law for chemical testing of the arrestee's breath, blood or urine, refusal by the arrestee to submit to chemical testing as requested is punishable by law.

a.   The degree of offense and minimum and maximum penalties for violation of section 9 above shall be equivalent to penalties as they're outlined by section 2 of this bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 01, 2010, 07:31:14 PM
Here is another bill I would like considered.  Let me know what you think.


MIDEAST FIREARMS SAFETY ACT

1.)   Definitions:

a.   In this act:

i.    “Firearm” mean any weapon that discharges a projectile by means of gunpowder.  The firearm must not be loaded or operable to be considered a firearm under this statute.

2.)   No person may conceal and carry a firearm on their person in public places unless they have completed a government firearms safety course and have been issued a proper license.  These licenses must be renewed every 10 years.

3.)   Violation of Section 2 is punishable by a fine of not more $10,000 or imprisonment of not more than 3 years or both.

4.)   No person may possess a firearm if they have:

a.   Been convicted of a felony or adjudicated delinquent of a felony in the Mideast Region, or

b.   Been convicted of a felony or adjudicated delinquent of a felony in another Region, or

c.   Been convicted of a felony or adjudicated delinquent of a felony under Federal Law.

5.)   Violation of Section 4 is punishable by a fine of not more than $25,000 or imprisonment of not more than 5 years or both.

6.)   No person may possess a shotgun or rifle with a barrel length of under 16 inches.

7.)   Violation of Section 6 is punishable by a fine of not more than $25,000 or imprisonment of not more than 5 years or both.

8.)   The Second Concealed Carry Statute is hereby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 03, 2010, 05:43:53 PM
NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 03, 2010, 05:58:32 PM
The DUI bill has some problems.  First:

Quote
ii.    "Operate" means the physical manipulation or activation of any of the controls of a motor vehicle necessary to put it in motion.

Turning the vehicle on is something that is necessary to put the car in motion, but somebody who simply turns a car to on should not be penalized.

Second, you never defined what under the influence means.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 03, 2010, 06:37:18 PM
The Educational Incentives Act has failed
Aye 2
Nay 3


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 03, 2010, 08:38:15 PM
The DUI bill has some problems.  First:

Quote
ii.    "Operate" means the physical manipulation or activation of any of the controls of a motor vehicle necessary to put it in motion.

Turning the vehicle on is something that is necessary to put the car in motion, but somebody who simply turns a car to on should not be penalized.

Second, you never defined what under the influence means.

Actually, both of those were intended.  The reason "operating" is defined that way is provide for meaningful use of the statute.  If the statute were to read as to only driving, a drunk driver found simply in a running vehicle would never be able to prosecuted.  I can tell you from personal experience that is a far more common situation than catching drivers actually driving.

Second, under the influence then becomes a question for the finder of fact, i.e. the jury or the judge to be proven by the BAC, field sobriety tests, testimony of witnesses, accidents, and such.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 03, 2010, 09:14:32 PM
So then does every person caught drinking and driving (say with a BAC of 0.02) go to trial?  Or what does a cop do when somebody blows an 0.07... does he let him go and drive or what?

I see so many problems with this law.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 03, 2010, 09:27:34 PM
And what is a "prohibited alcohol concentration"?

I also object to using 0.0 as the low limit for minors.  At least a 0.01 or 0.02, as to allow for consumption under religious ceremonies as well as to allow for the use of mouthwash.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 04, 2010, 12:37:22 PM
So then does every person caught drinking and driving (say with a BAC of 0.02) go to trial?  Or what does a cop do when somebody blows an 0.07... does he let him go and drive or what?

I see so many problems with this law.

I think Junkie has the right idea here, Inks. Let me try to explain why:

There are two different types of DUI offenses. The first is having a prohibited Blood Alcohol Content (BAC). It's currently a breath test of .08 or above. If one has a BAC level at or above this limit one is automatically deemed legally under the influence, even if one appears sober enough to drive. At first glance that might seem unfair, but that's why I emphasize "appears".

I've heard extensive expert testimony from toxicologists and can summarize the science as follows (though my previous threat to discuss this in mind-numbing detail if anyone doubts this still stands >:D):

Resistance or lackthereof to the impairing effects of alcohol vary from individual to individual, and can be generally measured along a bell curve with a few exceptional individuals at either extreme and most people somewhere in the middle. BUT:

> Impairment to operate a motor vehicle for most people starts at about a .04 BAC.

> By the time one hits a .06 BAC the overwhelming majority of people are appreciably impaired in their driving abilities.

>  Once .08 BAC is reached even the most exceptional individual at the far end of the bell curve--one who has a naturally strong constitution in their metabolism to "handle their drink", and has increased their already relatively high resistance to alcohol through chronic (ab)use of alcohol--is still "to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty" appreciably impaired in their ability to safely operate a vehicle.

> Such a person might visibly appear reasonably "sober", or at least not "drunk", but first being what most laypersons consider "drunk" is not the level of impairment needed to become an unsafely impaired driver. Likewise, individuals with a high tolerance my sometimes appear "OK" above a .08 BAC as they are functioning alcoholics (able to talk, walk, etc. without gross signs of intoxication); but such trained coping mechanisms do not make such an individual in that condition any safer a driver due to the impairment of divided attention skills and judgment needed to safely operate a vehicle.

I'll explain more later as I gotta get to court. :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 04, 2010, 01:17:59 PM
But we never define "under the influence."  My question for this law is, when does a cop arrest somebody and when does he let him go?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 04, 2010, 04:20:19 PM
So then does every person caught drinking and driving (say with a BAC of 0.02) go to trial?  Or what does a cop do when somebody blows an 0.07... does he let him go and drive or what?

I see so many problems with this law.

let's get BBF in here since he is after all, our Superior Court Justice


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 04, 2010, 04:21:28 PM
But we never define "under the influence."  My question for this law is, when does a cop arrest somebody and when does he let him go?

Part two coming now, my friend. :)

The other type of OVI offense is simple driving under the influence. This is unrelated to having any particular BAC level, but instead is simply based on whether based on under all the circumstances the defendant had consumed sufficient alcohol that their ability to operate a vehicle was appreciably impaired

Here is Ohio's legal definition of "under the influence".  
http://blog.charlesrowland.com/blog/_archives/2006/7/10/2091644.html
Note this definition is not part of Ohio's DUI statute which has language similar to this proposal simply prohibiting operation under the influence. Court cases like the one cited by this blog have defined the details of what constitutes "under the influence". While I guess you could include such a definition in this statute if it makes you feel more certain about the bill, Inks, I think you'd be safe to assume prior Mideast court decisions at some point in history issued a decision similarly defining under the influence for judges and juries.

As far as how it works with breath tests, this charge usually comes into play after a cop stops someone for a traffic violation and after observation and investigation (e.g. weaving while driving, odor of alcohol, slurred speech, field sobriety tests, etc.) arrests the driver for DUI, after which the driver refuses breath (and/or blood and/or urine) tests. This is the basic scenario for 99% of DUI cases that go to trial.

For the reasons previously mentioned about how impairment starts for most people at .04 BAC, someone can be convicted of DUI even after they test below a .08 BAC. After an officer arrests someone for suspicion of OVI and takes them into for a breath test, testing under a .08 doesn't mean they don't get cited for OVI or allowed to drive themselves home. Simply put, someone might not be able to handle their alcohol so that, even if they test a .06 BAC, they might still be staggering drunk and accordingly a danger to themselves and everyone on the road when they get behind the wheel. If someone is pulled over and found to be falling down drunk, they aren't "automatically innocent" of DUI just because their BAC is below a .08.

Does that help, Inks?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 04, 2010, 04:24:48 PM
BTW: Just a reminder that pursuant to federal mandate, if the minimum fines aren't set to at least $500 on a first offense and $1000 on subsequent offenses, the Mideast will lose 10% of its federal highway funding. This will be monitored by the GM for determing revenue for the regional budget. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 04, 2010, 05:34:37 PM
I understand that just because you're under 0.08, it doesn't mean you're off the hook.  Here in Michigan, a DUI is defined as above 0.08, but you can get an OWI for less than that.

My question, still is, are we going to have any guidelines for law enforcement personel?

And I still object to using 0.0 as the bottom limit for minors.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 04, 2010, 05:44:05 PM
I understand that just because you're under 0.08, it doesn't mean you're off the hook.  Here in Michigan, a DUI is defined as above 0.08, but you can get an OWI for less than that.

My question, still is, are we going to have any guidelines for law enforcement personel?

And I still object to using 0.0 as the bottom limit for minors.

I'm with Inks on that for minors. I think 0.1 should be okay


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 04, 2010, 05:53:49 PM
I understand that just because you're under 0.08, it doesn't mean you're off the hook.  Here in Michigan, a DUI is defined as above 0.08, but you can get an OWI for less than that.

My question, still is, are we going to have any guidelines for law enforcement personel?

And I still object to using 0.0 as the bottom limit for minors.

I'm with Inks on that for minors. I think 0.1 should be okay

0.01.  0.1 would be drunk.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 04, 2010, 07:33:24 PM
A few things, the drinking age in the Mideast is 18.  Thus it is illegal for anyone under 18 to drink, why would we make it okay for them to drink only so long as they drive.  As far as the mouth wash thing, that would not come up in a blood test so would not be a factor.

As far as when the officers can arrest.  They arrest, as they do in all situations, when they believe they have probable cause to arrest, in this case, if they believe they have probable cause that the individual is operating while intoxicated. 

While I understand why people would want more specific articulations, in my opinion it is better to allow discretion.  Mandatory arrest guidelines are just as bad as minimum sentences.  It prevents people from exercising the discretion we pay to have.  Of course that is my opinion.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 04, 2010, 07:34:05 PM
Also, any thought on the gun bill?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 04, 2010, 07:39:08 PM
I have been thinking about my answer about mouth wash.  Maybe we should include in the statute an absolute right for the defendant to demand a test other than the one picked by the police.  So if the cops pick breath, he can demand blood and vice versa.  It would preserve evidence and protect people's rights.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 04, 2010, 07:43:52 PM
I understand that just because you're under 0.08, it doesn't mean you're off the hook.  Here in Michigan, a DUI is defined as above 0.08, but you can get an OWI for less than that.

My question, still is, are we going to have any guidelines for law enforcement personel?

And I still object to using 0.0 as the bottom limit for minors.

I'm with Inks on that for minors. I think 0.1 should be okay

0.01.  0.1 would be drunk.

whops. yes, .01

and driving age is still 16 here correct? 16 and 17 would be minors. And my concern is simply for religious ceremonies and that specific, limited drinking, is already allowed


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 04, 2010, 11:28:55 PM
A few things, the drinking age in the Mideast is 18.  Thus it is illegal for anyone under 18 to drink, why would we make it okay for them to drink only so long as they drive.  As far as the mouth wash thing, that would not come up in a blood test so would not be a factor.

I'm now with you on the rest; however, I insist on allowing for at least a 0.01 for minors.

If a minor is truly drinking, his/her BAC will be over 0.01.  Allowing for minimal amounts allows some wiggle room for circumstances such as religious ceremonies as well as mouthwash use.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 05, 2010, 01:19:06 PM
My two cents (yet again): :P

I actually disagree with Inks's suggestion to over legislate guidelines for the police on how to handle tests under .08, and Junkie's suggestion to make it a right to demand a state administered second test. I oppose both for the same reason: Allowing police appropriate and necessary discretion to handle things on the field based on the circumstances of each case.

Inks, if an officer arrests someone for DUI who then tests (e.g.) .065 BAC, we both agree that the arrested person may still be guilty of DUI. Very simply, if the person was DUI when the cop pulled them over, they're almost surely (or at least within probable cause) to be DUI when the want to drive home from the police station and hour or two later.

So while not failing the breath test might result in the arrestee keeping their license while charges are pending in court (in Ohio a failed breath test results in an immediate 90 day administrative license suspension, longer for repeat offenders, though one has the right to a court hearing to appeal the suspension within 5 days of arrest), that doesn't mean the officer has to let the person drive home while still likely impaired. I say let individual police agencies implement standard operating procedures like requiring the arrestee find a ride (our cops will frequently drive them home after paperwork is done) or wait (e.g.) at least X hours after testing to drive home.

Junkie, requiring the police to conduct additional testing at an arrestee's demand would create far more burden on police than would work to protect defendant's rights.

I assume you mean the police can pick breath, blood or urine; and after the defendant provides (e.g.) a breath test as requested he can the police let him submit to a urine test or be taken to the hospital for a blood test. Letting the defendant choose a single form of test would allow those impaired on drugs rather than alcohol demand a breath test which doesn't detect drugs in ones system like a blood or urine test.

Even if that's the case, there are two reasons such a requirement is far more burdensome than protective of rights:

First, the defense has right to access records of calibration and upkeep of breathalyzers, and lab records for blood or urine tests. If proper guidelines and procedures aren't followed to ensure the testing process was accurate, the chemical test gets thrown out.

Secondly, a defendant still has every right to obtain a blood or urine test from a hospital or doctor immediately after released that same night. Ohio law actually includes that in the legal advisement given arrestees before they are asked to test). Very few defendants take advantage of this (or at least very few defense attorneys share those hospital test results with me :P), but I've had cases where a defendant refused all testing by police (including blood), but obtained a private blood test within a few hours of arrest that showed they were likely under the limit when driving. That doesn't automatically kill the charges of course, but obviously has a big impact in plea negotiations.

Instead of having police drag people who fail breath tests to the hospital and wait for a nurse to find time to draw blood, I'd say Inks's suggestion of simply including a .01 limit for minors is much more workable on several levels. Besides, a minor who tests under a .01 BAC can still be charged with underage possession/consumption of alcohol. ("It was just a sip" is not a defense ;)).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 05, 2010, 01:58:56 PM
The DUI bill has some problems.  First:

Quote
ii.    "Operate" means the physical manipulation or activation of any of the controls of a motor vehicle necessary to put it in motion.

Turning the vehicle on is something that is necessary to put the car in motion, but somebody who simply turns a car to on should not be penalized.

The reason "operating" is defined that way is provide for meaningful use of the statute.  If the statute were to read as to only driving, a drunk driver found simply in a running vehicle would never be able to prosecuted.  I can tell you from personal experience that is a far more common situation than catching drivers actually driving.

(Help me! I can't stop butting in!! :P)

FWIW: There is a difference in some states between "operating" and  "physical control" of a vehicle under the influence. For decades Ohio courts had held the state's definition of "operate", similar to Junkie's proposed language, included being in the driver's seat of the vehicle while possessing the ignition keys. That was held to constitute "operation" of a vehicle. Several years ago the legislature changed the definition of "operation" to mean essentially getting the vehicle to move (even inches), and created a new, less serious, offense of "physical control under the influence" governing the above scenario.

The theory is being under the influence sitting behind the wheel with the keys, potentially in the ignition, is a short jump (bumped gear shift, etc.) to potential disaster, or at least too much potential temptation to committing DUI. My experience is much different than yours, Junkie; individuals found to be DUI after being pulled over for speeding or the like are far, far more common in my career than when drunk drivers are found passed out behind the wheel along the side of the road. The latter occurs, but as long as the officer remembers to ask 1) about how long have you been pulled over; and 2) have you had anything to drink since stopping, that usually results in a successful DUI prosecution (their car didn't get to the side of the road by magic, and if the driver is drunk when the cop finds them they were otherwise surely at least as drunk when they pulled over).

I'm sharing this info simply out of full disclosure for the Assembly's consideration. I really don't have a strong opinion between Junkie's version vs. creating an additional lesser offense of "physical control". That's not a legal distinction, but rather a policy decision for you folks to decide.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 06, 2010, 02:36:07 PM
Inks, if an officer arrests someone for DUI who then tests (e.g.) .065 BAC, we both agree that the arrested person may still be guilty of DUI. Very simply, if the person was DUI when the cop pulled them over, they're almost surely (or at least within probable cause) to be DUI when the want to drive home from the police station and hour or two later.
Yeah, I abandoned that point when I better understood what Junkie was talking about.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 06, 2010, 09:58:00 PM
So just to sums things up, the only change being asked for after this discussion is 0.0 to become 0.01.

Then we'll have it ready for a vote.

Unless there are further objections


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 06, 2010, 10:22:58 PM
So just to sums things up, the only change being asked for after this discussion is 0.0 to become 0.01.

Then we'll have it ready for a vote.

Unless there are further objections

That's my only objection / suggested amendment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 07, 2010, 11:21:10 AM
While I understand your arguments in regards to the 0.01 for minors, I still feel that it should remain 0.00.  The drinking age is 18, to have a DUI statute that allows for drinking under that age is ripe for problems.  This law still allows for prosecutor and law enforcement discretion.  If a minor did register after having alcohol for religious purposes (which still would be hard to get to 0.01), proof that it was for a religious ceremony would clearly be taken into account by judges, prosecutors, and even cops.

Now as far as mouth wash, I have seen it successfully proven that it results in positive tests.  The minor would have to stopped right after gurgling for it to register.  At least in my understanding.  However, if people are still questioning that -- a right for a defendant to demand a second test would remedy that. 

With a due respect to Badger, we have the right to demand the second test in Wisconsin and it is not a problem.  If the cop decides on breath, the defendant can then request blood and vice versa.  It is not a burden on law enforcement.  Most of the time, it just reaffirms the prohibited BAC, sometimes even higher.  The few times it cam in lower, it actually showed that the defendant was in a lower category or not even in the prohibited level.  It helps law enforcement and protects a defendants rights.

Those are my feelings.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 07, 2010, 01:37:19 PM
While I understand your arguments in regards to the 0.01 for minors, I still feel that it should remain 0.00.  The drinking age is 18, to have a DUI statute that allows for drinking under that age is ripe for problems.  This law still allows for prosecutor and law enforcement discretion.  If a minor did register after having alcohol for religious purposes (which still would be hard to get to 0.01), proof that it was for a religious ceremony would clearly be taken into account by judges, prosecutors, and even cops.

Now as far as mouth wash, I have seen it successfully proven that it results in positive tests.  The minor would have to stopped right after gurgling for it to register.  At least in my understanding.  However, if people are still questioning that -- a right for a defendant to demand a second test would remedy that. 

With a due respect to Badger, we have the right to demand the second test in Wisconsin and it is not a problem.  If the cop decides on breath, the defendant can then request blood and vice versa.  It is not a burden on law enforcement.  Most of the time, it just reaffirms the prohibited BAC, sometimes even higher.  The few times it cam in lower, it actually showed that the defendant was in a lower category or not even in the prohibited level.  It helps law enforcement and protects a defendants rights.

Those are my feelings.

But then we'll be wasting money on the courts to prove they were at a religious ceremony or wedding or something. It's not like they're  actually impared at .01, so they wouldn't even be pulled over for drunk driving, it would just be crappy driving. If a kid actually drinks, they don't take a couple of sips. This protects that and stops us from wasting money and time in the courts for a kid that clearly wasn't drinking in the first place.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 07, 2010, 02:04:59 PM
How we will be wasting money on courts?  If a minor has a alcohol at a religious ceremony (and all the ones that I have gone to have not involved enough alcohol to really matter in this debate) he would practically have to be pulled over right after leaving the ceremony.  Time does effect things here.  Then you have the police and the prosecutor who can exercise their discretion.  A prosecutor can decide not to bring charges in such a situation based upon a reason of equity.  Only if they are brought does the court come into play.

Here is where I see the issue, our current drinking age is 18.  If we adopt a 0.01 for minors, then we are in essence saying that minors can't drink unless they plan on driving.  Additionally, the amount of times where someone have limited alcohol content from a religious ceremony would pale in comparison to minors who are simply drinking.  Thus I still feel it should be absolute sobriety for anyone under the age of 18.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 07, 2010, 02:30:23 PM
How we will be wasting money on courts?  If a minor has a alcohol at a religious ceremony (and all the ones that I have gone to have not involved enough alcohol to really matter in this debate) he would practically have to be pulled over right after leaving the ceremony.  Time does effect things here.  Then you have the police and the prosecutor who can exercise their discretion.  A prosecutor can decide not to bring charges in such a situation based upon a reason of equity.  Only if they are brought does the court come into play.

Here is where I see the issue, our current drinking age is 18.  If we adopt a 0.01 for minors, then we are in essence saying that minors can't drink unless they plan on driving.  Additionally, the amount of times where someone have limited alcohol content from a religious ceremony would pale in comparison to minors who are simply drinking.  Thus I still feel it should be absolute sobriety for anyone under the age of 18.

No, because you you have  stated, it is allowed for minors to drink at religious ceremonies, therefore I can't see it all how this law says you only can drink if you drive. And without .01, there would still have to be proof that they were at a religious ceremony. .01 is simply nothing, I don't see what the matter is here. If you would like, specifiying that minors can drink for religious purposes would cancel out your concern that the bill would say you only may drink if you drive. I think .01 just saves us from wasting time at any rate for any purpose.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 07, 2010, 04:48:30 PM
I guess we will have to agree to disagree.  On the other hand, you do have a point as to the limited aspect of this point.  I do not think we need to, but I can see your issue.  So lets raise it to .01.  Rather than post that immense bill again, I will just edit if it if nobody has an objection.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 07, 2010, 06:05:15 PM
While we're on the same subject, and to avoid a hypocrisy in the bill, shouldn't we do the same for commercial drivers as well and raise it to 0.01?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 07, 2010, 06:50:56 PM
I really hope not.  I think it is in everyone's best interest to have truck drivers etc. absolutely sober when on the road.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 07, 2010, 07:09:25 PM
I really hope not.  I think it is in everyone's best interest to have truck drivers etc. absolutely sober when on the road.

0.01 is basically absolutely sober.  A BAC of 0.01 isn't going to affect ANYBODY.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 07, 2010, 07:34:12 PM
I really hope not.  I think it is in everyone's best interest to have truck drivers etc. absolutely sober when on the road.

0.01 is basically absolutely sober.  A BAC of 0.01 isn't going to affect ANYBODY.
Someone driving such a large vehicle should really have no alcohol in their body, in my opinion.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 07, 2010, 07:48:31 PM
I really hope not.  I think it is in everyone's best interest to have truck drivers etc. absolutely sober when on the road.

0.01 is basically absolutely sober.  A BAC of 0.01 isn't going to affect ANYBODY.
Someone driving such a large vehicle should really have no alcohol in their body, in my opinion.

You people are acting like a BAC of 0.01 is going to have an effect on people.  If you assume the average trucker weighs 180 pounds (which is probably a good underestimate), we're talking about under half a beer here.  This is not some guy going out and even having a beer.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 07, 2010, 08:13:12 PM
I really hope not.  I think it is in everyone's best interest to have truck drivers etc. absolutely sober when on the road.

0.01 is basically absolutely sober.  A BAC of 0.01 isn't going to affect ANYBODY.
Someone driving such a large vehicle should really have no alcohol in their body, in my opinion.

You people are acting like a BAC of 0.01 is going to have an effect on people.  If you assume the average trucker weighs 180 pounds (which is probably a good underestimate), we're talking about under half a beer here.  This is not some guy going out and even having a beer.

I agree with Inks. If it's .01, they aren't really drinking to drink and not even close to drunk. If they actually go to the bar for a drink, it will be above .01 and obviously there's a whole nother story.

*sigh* I thought I could have opened the vote tonight for this :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 07, 2010, 10:17:36 PM
I really hope not.  I think it is in everyone's best interest to have truck drivers etc. absolutely sober when on the road.

0.01 is basically absolutely sober.  A BAC of 0.01 isn't going to affect ANYBODY.
Someone driving such a large vehicle should really have no alcohol in their body, in my opinion.

You people are acting like a BAC of 0.01 is going to have an effect on people.  If you assume the average trucker weighs 180 pounds (which is probably a good underestimate), we're talking about under half a beer here.  This is not some guy going out and even having a beer.

I agree with Inks. If it's .01, they aren't really drinking to drink and not even close to drunk. If they actually go to the bar for a drink, it will be above .01 and obviously there's a whole nother story.

*sigh* I thought I could have opened the vote tonight for this :P

My main reasoning is that when you are talking about bus drivers, truck drivers, etc., an absolute sobriety would prevent the attempted calculation of "well i can one beer with dinner as long as I have a full dinner."  Considering the risks, I really hope we can agree to keep this type of driving conduct on an absolute sober basis.  I know I don't want kids being driven by a driver who had even half a beer.

Interesting side note, 15 years ago, cops where I live were allowed to have two beers with lunch.  Many of these guys weigh much more than 180.  Considering the fact they drive, sometimes at high speeds, and of course have guns, thankfully someone realized that was a bad idea.

I think this is in the same realm.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 07, 2010, 10:33:56 PM
I would formally like to submit that we amend the commercial drivers section to read 0.01.  If that amendment fails, I will still, however, vote for the bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 07, 2010, 10:44:02 PM
I would formally like to submit that we amend the commercial drivers section to read 0.01.  If that amendment fails, I will still, however, vote for the bill.

after Junkie's explanation I agree with you on this as well.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 07, 2010, 10:45:58 PM
I would formally like to submit that we amend the commercial drivers section to read 0.01.  If that amendment fails, I will still, however, vote for the bill.

I'd like to reeiterate my opposition to this. I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Junkie. It's difficult enough to operate such large vehicles, and letting them legally drive with some alcohol inside of them, even if it's only a little, puts everyone else out there in more danger.

It only takes 4 votes to override a veto, so if you have those, then by all means, go for it. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 07, 2010, 10:46:37 PM
Voting is now open for the following and will last for 48 hours or until every Assemblyman has voted:

There shall be an amendment to the MIDEAST DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF AN INTOXICANT OR OTHER DRUG ACT amending the commercial drivers section to read 0.01 instead of 0.0.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 07, 2010, 10:50:02 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 07, 2010, 10:55:13 PM
I stand by the Governor on this, and urge a nay vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 08, 2010, 12:50:08 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 08, 2010, 12:50:50 AM
I would formally like to submit that we amend the commercial drivers section to read 0.01.  If that amendment fails, I will still, however, vote for the bill.

I'd like to reeiterate my opposition to this. I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Junkie. It's difficult enough to operate such large vehicles, and letting them legally drive with some alcohol inside of them, even if it's only a little, puts everyone else out there in more danger.

It only takes 4 votes to override a veto, so if you have those, then by all means, go for it. :)

You would honestly kill the bill on this little bit alone?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 08, 2010, 07:52:18 AM
I would formally like to submit that we amend the commercial drivers section to read 0.01.  If that amendment fails, I will still, however, vote for the bill.

I'd like to reeiterate my opposition to this. I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Junkie. It's difficult enough to operate such large vehicles, and letting them legally drive with some alcohol inside of them, even if it's only a little, puts everyone else out there in more danger.

It only takes 4 votes to override a veto, so if you have those, then by all means, go for it. :)

You would honestly kill the bill on this little bit alone?

No, I wouldn't kill it. But I'd strongly consider sending it back to y'all with my suggestion.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 08, 2010, 08:12:54 AM
NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 08, 2010, 07:38:50 PM
FWIW: Ohio has two different offense re: commercial drivers. One charging OVI with a BAC limit of .04, and a separate less serious offense (but still with potential, though not mandatory, jail time) for having "any detectable or measurable amount of alcohol" in the driver's system.

I may be a little late with this suggestion, but what about adopting an offense for .01 BAC or higher, and another lesser offense for having any detectable amount?

BTW: Not to nag, but there still is that issue of losing federal highway funding unless first time offenders face a minimum $500 fine and repeat offenders at least a $1000 fine. Just reminding.... ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 08, 2010, 08:32:18 PM
I think my amendment is fine... honestly, I have no problem charging a driver with a 0.02 with a harsh penalty... there's no reason they would ever legitimately have that much alcohol in their system.

As for the funding, I'll introduce an amendment to fix that as soon as we're done with this vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 08, 2010, 08:53:06 PM

BTW: Not to nag, but there still is that issue of losing federal highway funding unless first time offenders face a minimum $500 fine and repeat offenders at least a $1000 fine. Just reminding.... ;)

I have changed it, although I do not agree with mandatory mins for any reason, I do not want to lose federal funding.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 10, 2010, 05:32:56 PM
It's disappointed that two of our Assemblyman have yet to vote, even though messages have been sent to vote to them. Hopefully they can vote soon so we can get this bill passed quickly.



I'd like to introduce the following legislation. I have no clue on a name for it, so I'll just use something random for now.

Quote
The Taxing Abortion Act
Section 1. Tax on Certain Medical Procedures
a) Any medical professional performing a legal abortion in the Mideast region shall pay a tax of $5,000 per procedure to the state's general fund.
b) Abortions performed in cases of pregnancy caused by incest, rape, or necessitated to preserve the life of the mother are exempt from Section 1(a).

Section 2. Timing
This bill shall take effect upon the Governor's signature


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 10, 2010, 07:27:58 PM
The MIDEAST DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF AN INTOXICANT OR OTHER DRUG ACT amendment proposed by Inks has passed.

Aye 2
Nay 1

Sorry I couldn't close this earlier, I was playing at concerts the last few nights with Mark Wood :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 10, 2010, 07:28:57 PM
With no objections I will move the DUI bill forward to a final vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 10, 2010, 07:34:13 PM
Agenda

MIDEAST DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF AN INTOXICANT OR OTHER DRUG ACT
a. Vote on the final version

MIDEAST FIREARMS SAFETY ACT
a. Bring to the floor
b. Debate
c. Amend/Modify
d. Vote on final version

The Taxing Abortion Act
a. Bring to the floor
b. Debate
c. Amend/Modify
d. Vote on final version

As it seems we have increased activity (even with decreased Assemblymember activity) I think we should look into making seperate threads for each bill, fully debating and amending them there and then bring them to official votes in teh Mideast Assembly Thread, in order to allow us to be more efficient and move through more legislation in a more timely manner.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 10, 2010, 10:22:51 PM
Note: On the abortion bill, I'd be open to working with pro-choice members on possible amendments, such as lower the tax amount. I'm actually toying with an amount, and actually just edited it again. ;)

BTW: This is my 7500th post!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 11, 2010, 05:32:07 PM
Voting is now open for the final version of MIDEAST DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF AN INTOXICANT OR OTHER DRUG ACT which includes the 0.01 amendment proposed by Inks.

Voting will last for 48 hours or until every Assemblymember has voted.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 11, 2010, 05:33:22 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 11, 2010, 06:24:56 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 11, 2010, 10:13:45 PM
NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 12, 2010, 03:18:38 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on November 12, 2010, 09:48:52 PM
aye ftr

As it seems we have increased activity (even with decreased Assemblymember activity) I think we should look into making seperate threads for each bill, fully debating and amending them there and then bring them to official votes in teh Mideast Assembly Thread, in order to allow us to be more efficient and move through more legislation in a more timely manner.

I introduced a similar measure in the past which didn't get anywhere. However, the votes (under my proposal) would take place in the thread for the bill in question. I think it's a better arrangement, but we'll have to debate it. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 12, 2010, 10:07:30 PM
MIDEAST DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF AN INTOXICANT OR OTHER DRUG ACT has passed and will go to the Governor's Desk for signing.

Aye- 4
Nay- 1


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 12, 2010, 11:54:33 PM
Now, the abortion bill: I will absolutely not vote for a bill having a tax over $500.  Even then, I will be introducing an Amendment putting all the money made from taxes into public schools in the Mideast, just so y'all know.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 12, 2010, 11:59:44 PM
Now, the abortion bill: I will absolutely not vote for a bill having a tax over $500.  Even then, I will be introducing an Amendment putting all the money made from taxes into public schools in the Mideast, just so y'all know.
That'll be taken into consideration when we get to the abortion bill. However, we first need to discuss the firearms safety bill which was introduced by Assemblyman Junkie.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 13, 2010, 01:35:50 PM
Now, the abortion bill: I will absolutely not vote for a bill having a tax over $500.  Even then, I will be introducing an Amendment putting all the money made from taxes into public schools in the Mideast, just so y'all know.
That'll be taken into consideration when we get to the abortion bill. However, we first need to discuss the firearms safety bill which was introduced by Assemblyman Junkie.

or we can push forward a motion (that would not have to be signed by the Governor?) to create separate threads for each bill, and then decide where all official votes will take place.

I think keeping all vote records in this main thread make it the easiest to locate and to not lose.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 13, 2010, 03:12:34 PM
I'd say keep it either all in the same thread or all separate, and have this just as a general update thread of the agenda, etc.

But debates in one thread and votes in here just seem somewhat confusing.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 13, 2010, 03:23:11 PM
It's disappointed that two of our Assemblyman have yet to vote, even though messages have been sent to vote to them. Hopefully they can vote soon so we can get this bill passed quickly.



I'd like to introduce the following legislation. I have no clue on a name for it, so I'll just use something random for now.

Quote
The Taxing Abortion Act
Section 1. Tax on Certain Medical Procedures
a) Any medical professional performing a legal abortion in the Mideast region shall pay a tax of $5,000 per procedure to the state's general fund.
b) Abortions performed in cases of pregnancy caused by incest, rape, or necessitated to preserve the life of the mother are exempt from Section 1(a).

Section 2. Timing
This bill shall take effect upon the Governor's signature
Whether the ultimate "Abortion tax" is $5K, $500, or $50, its still a terrible idea.

Chris Rock has a joke about not favoring gun control to control violence, but instead he'd put a $5,000 tax on every bullet. Well, imagine if gun control advocates tired proposing something like that in the Mideast--especially soon after a gun control initiative was shellacked at the polls--and you can see the flaws in this case.

Why not a tax on voting? On appointment of legal counsel to the indigent? on political advertisements? If we're going to ban one legal right to the indigent, why not all of them?
Sorry. We're not "banning" anything---we're just "taxing" it. Don't hide behind hitting everyone but the rich at exercising this legal right. Either just seek an outright ban or cope with the consensus of the region's voters.

If you really want to discourage abortions--like many of us do--try adopting some actually constructive steps like eliminate pregnancy as a preexisting condition with respect to health care, require the SCHIP to cover pregnant women and unborn children, provide free home visits by registered nurses for new mothers, provide grants for ultrasound equipment, and provide pregnancy counseling and childcare on university campuses.

FWIW, if this passes I assure you steps will be taken to bring this to a regionwide vote. Considering how the last abortion ban "tax" was greeted by the voters, I urge you, Governor, to just let sleeping dogs lie and address more pressing concerns of the region.

On the bright side, I guess its good to see in this time of fiscal crisis there's at least one tax conservatives are willing to raise. ::)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 13, 2010, 05:05:47 PM
It's disappointed that two of our Assemblyman have yet to vote, even though messages have been sent to vote to them. Hopefully they can vote soon so we can get this bill passed quickly.



I'd like to introduce the following legislation. I have no clue on a name for it, so I'll just use something random for now.

Quote
The Taxing Abortion Act
Section 1. Tax on Certain Medical Procedures
a) Any medical professional performing a legal abortion in the Mideast region shall pay a tax of $5,000 per procedure to the state's general fund.
b) Abortions performed in cases of pregnancy caused by incest, rape, or necessitated to preserve the life of the mother are exempt from Section 1(a).

Section 2. Timing
This bill shall take effect upon the Governor's signature
Whether the ultimate "Abortion tax" is $5K, $500, or $50, its still a terrible idea.

Chris Rock has a joke about not favoring gun control to control violence, but instead he'd put a $5,000 tax on every bullet. Well, imagine if gun control advocates tired proposing something like that in the Mideast--especially soon after a gun control initiative was shellacked at the polls--and you can see the flaws in this case.

Why not a tax on voting? On appointment of legal counsel to the indigent? on political advertisements? If we're going to ban one legal right to the indigent, why not all of them?
Sorry. We're not "banning" anything---we're just "taxing" it. Don't hide behind hitting everyone but the rich at exercising this legal right. Either just seek an outright ban or cope with the consensus of the region's voters.

If you really want to discourage abortions--like many of us do--try adopting some actually constructive steps like eliminate pregnancy as a preexisting condition with respect to health care, require the SCHIP to cover pregnant women and unborn children, provide free home visits by registered nurses for new mothers, provide grants for ultrasound equipment, and provide pregnancy counseling and childcare on university campuses.

FWIW, if this passes I assure you steps will be taken to bring this to a regionwide vote. Considering how the last abortion ban "tax" was greeted by the voters, I urge you, Governor, to just let sleeping dogs lie and address more pressing concerns of the region.

On the bright side, I guess its good to see in this time of fiscal crisis there's at least one tax conservatives are willing to raise. ::)

Then I hope the fedearl government eliminates their taxes on business, health care, and education :)

But I do support your proposals for limiting abortions via premature pregnancies and providing young and new mothers with those abilities for the child (which will also discourage abortion of course).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 13, 2010, 11:13:50 PM
I would like to remind everyone that this bill would only tax abortions in the 2nd and 3rd trimester, minus rape, incest, and mother's life in danger. And this tax would be on the doctor performing the abortion, not the patient.

For those who currently oppose the bill, what provisions/amendments would you like to be see made that could possibly make you support the bill? As always, I'm very interested in seeking bi-partisan solutions, because I feel that both sides need to work together to solve the problem. Complaining isn't going to get anything accomplishments, but working together on this will.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 13, 2010, 11:48:13 PM
I would like to remind everyone that this bill would only tax abortions in the 2nd and 3rd trimester, minus rape, incest, and mother's life in danger. And this tax would be on the doctor performing the abortion, not the patient.

For those who currently oppose the bill, what provisions/amendments would you like to be see made that could possibly make you support the bill? As always, I'm very interested in seeking bi-partisan solutions, because I feel that both sides need to work together to solve the problem. Complaining isn't going to get anything accomplishments, but working together on this will.

I'd say split the cost between the doctor and the one seeking the abortion. If it's on the doctor, yes, there will be less abortion doctors, but then the abortion will be done by others and unsafely. I know nothing is perfect, but I'd like to voice that concern.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on November 14, 2010, 12:08:39 PM
Hm, I'm torn on this bill, actually.

On the one hand, I'm obviously for anything that makes it harder to get an abortion, and I'd much rather tax abortions than tax, say, small businesses. On the other hand, I'm somewhat uneasy over the thought of our regional government depending on the abortion industry for funding.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 14, 2010, 03:57:34 PM
I would like to remind everyone that this bill would only tax abortions in the 2nd and 3rd trimester, minus rape, incest, and mother's life in danger. And this tax would be on the doctor performing the abortion, not the patient.

For those who currently oppose the bill, what provisions/amendments would you like to be see made that could possibly make you support the bill? As always, I'm very interested in seeking bi-partisan solutions, because I feel that both sides need to work together to solve the problem. Complaining isn't going to get anything accomplishments, but working together on this will.

I'd say split the cost between the doctor and the one seeking the abortion. If it's on the doctor, yes, there will be less abortion doctors, but then the abortion will be done by others and unsafely. I know nothing is perfect, but I'd like to voice that concern.
I could understand that.
Badger, if you have a better idea to prevent abortions from occurring, you're more than welcome to write an amendment. :) I just had to start somewhere.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 14, 2010, 04:50:26 PM
FWIW, if this passes I assure you steps will be taken to bring this to a regionwide vote. Considering how the last abortion ban "tax" was greeted by the voters, I urge you, Governor, to just let sleeping dogs lie and address more pressing concerns of the region.

Don;t worry, Badger.  If this passes in any form, I will press for a Regional vote, as I did on the last last abortion bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 14, 2010, 05:32:19 PM
OK.  Well people aren't really discussing how we're going to handle bills now that we have this new board, so I'm going to introduce a resolution, which takes 2 proposals.  And people can pick from the two.

Quote
Mideast Assembly Procedure for LEgislative DEbate and Voting (MAPLEDEV)

The "Mideast Assembly Thread" (MAT) thread shall be used for the following purposes:
  • The introduction of bills, resolutions, and amendments.
  • The posting of any updates to the schedule, calendar, recesses, or other procedural details of the Assembly.
  • Any motions involving the procedure or hierarchy of the Assembly, including a motion for Speaker of the Assembly as well as votes on such a motion.

A new thread shall be created for each piece of legislation introduced ; however, such a thread shall only be created when the Assembly is debating said piece of legislation.  Unless otherwise stated, the Assembly should only debate one piece of legislation at a time.
"Piece of legislation" means any bill, resolution, or amendment introduced in the MAT, with the exception of resolutions on the precedure or hierarchy of the Assembly.

The following shall be performed in the legislation thread:
  • All debate on the piece of legislation.
  • The introduction of any amendments to the piece legislation.
  • Any votes on the piece of legislation, including amendments to it.

Included in the thread title should be the current state of the piece of legislation followed by the title in parenthesis:
  • "Debating" - the piece of legislation is actively being debated by the Assembly.
  • "Voting on Amendment" - the Assembly is in the process of voting on an amendment to the proposed legislation.
  • "Final vote" - the Assembly is in the process of taking a final vote.
  • "Passed" - the Assembly voted in favor of the piece of legislation; however, the Governor has not yet signed it.
  • "Failed" - the Assembly voted against the the piece of legislation.
  • "Statute" - the Assembly voted in favor of the piece of legislation, and the Governor signed it into law.
  • "Vetoed" - the Assembly voted in favor of the piece of legislation; however, the Governor vetoed the legislation.
  • "Vote to Override" - the Assembly voted in favor of the piece of legislation; however, the Governor vetoed the legislation, and the Assembly is in a vote to override the veto.
  • "Tabled" - the Assembly voted to table the piece of legislation until a further time.

So, what do you guys think?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 14, 2010, 06:07:14 PM
I only have two problems.

1) We should probably state in the bill that the speaker will open each legislation thread since the bill will be introduced in this main thread anyway, in order to keep order and such.
2)
Quote
Unless otherwise stated, the Assembly should only debate one piece of legislation at a time.

I think this should be removed. The point of separate threads is so we can debate multiple bills at once and move much quicker. If an assemblymember is on say once every day to talk about a specific bill, this gives them the ability to comment, debate, and vote on multiple bills instead of drawing out the process.

Other than that it sounds good and I will move this to the top of the agenda. Let's hold up any further debate on the Firearms or Abortion bills in order to get this passed.

One more thing that comes to mine. For odd bills like the budget, can we include language allowing for that to be set up as a separate thread even though it hasn't been proposed persay since it takes a while to do and debate even before it can be proposed since there are so many parts to it?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 14, 2010, 06:56:58 PM
1) I meant to include that.  The fact that that's not in there was an error.
2) We can change that.

3) as for the budget, this bill is a guideline for stuff, not necessarily a 10 Commandments of the legislative process, so some leeway with budgets is fine.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 14, 2010, 07:00:52 PM
Here's a revised version...

Quote
Mideast Assembly Procedure for LEgislative DEbate and Voting (MAPLEDEV)

The "Mideast Assembly Thread" (MAT) thread shall be used for the following purposes:
  • The introduction of bills, resolutions, and amendments.
  • The posting of any updates to the schedule, calendar, recesses, or other procedural details of the Assembly.
  • Any motions involving the procedure or hierarchy of the Assembly, including a motion for Speaker of the Assembly as well as votes on such a motion.

The Speaker of the Assembly shall create a new thread for each piece of legislation introduced; however, such a thread shall only be created when the Assembly is debating said piece of legislation.
"Piece of legislation" means any bill, resolution, or amendment introduced in the MAT, with the exception of resolutions on the precedure or hierarchy of the Assembly.

The following shall be performed in the legislation thread:
  • All debate on the piece of legislation.
  • The introduction of any amendments to the piece legislation.
  • Any votes on the piece of legislation, including amendments to it.

Included in the thread title should be the current state of the piece of legislation followed by the title in parenthesis:
  • "Debating" - the piece of legislation is actively being debated by the Assembly.
  • "Voting on Amendment" - the Assembly is in the process of voting on an amendment to the proposed legislation.
  • "Final vote" - the Assembly is in the process of taking a final vote.
  • "Passed" - the Assembly voted in favor of the piece of legislation; however, the Governor has not yet signed it.
  • "Failed" - the Assembly voted against the the piece of legislation.
  • "Statute" - the Assembly voted in favor of the piece of legislation, and the Governor signed it into law.
  • "Vetoed" - the Assembly voted in favor of the piece of legislation; however, the Governor vetoed the legislation.
  • "Vote to Override" - the Assembly voted in favor of the piece of legislation; however, the Governor vetoed the legislation, and the Assembly is in a vote to override the veto.
  • "Tabled" - the Assembly voted to table the piece of legislation until a further time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 14, 2010, 07:40:21 PM
I think your proposal for separate threads is a very good idea.  I tried to keep track of our assembly before joining and found it hard to figure out sometimes what was going on.  I am one of those members that has certain windows of time for activity, so this idea would make it easier to get up to speed and conduct business.

As far as the abortion tax bill, I can not support it.  I had indicated earlier that a tax on items you would rather have less of is in line with my philosophy.  Cigarettes are an example. 

However, I do not believe that a tax on the abortion procedure is appropriate.  While tax hikes on smokes may induce someone to give up smoking, taxing a doctor for performing a certain medical procedure will only lead to less safe abortions, not less abortions.  Taxing the doctor will not change the mindset of those seeking an abortion. 

Even if the cost is split, as suggested, I do not feel it will lead to less abortions.  Unlike smokers, who feel the tax every time they buy a pack (an action before the smoking -- which is what you want to discourage), people looking for an abortion will not be confronted with the tax until they are looking for the abortion.  Kind of too late in the process.  Those who cannot afford the tax will just find a way, often times illegal and unsafe, to get what they seek.  Dealing with blackmarket cigs is one thing, dealing with blackmarket abortions is another.

I am more than willing to consider avenues to make abortions rarer, but trying to limit availability is not something I can support.

Oh, and sorry for not posting earlier.  Went away for the weekend.  Thought I would be able to get computer access.  Got enough time to change my fantasy football line up but got caught by the fiance just as I turned over to this and had the labtop shut on my fingers.  Kind of hurt. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 14, 2010, 08:04:05 PM
Fiance... how old are you?  Just curious.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 14, 2010, 08:05:11 PM
Also, should we have an identifier so we know what threads are ours, without having to look to detailed at it?  Perhaps "MA:" at the beginning for Mideast Assembly?  I can add that into the bill if we like that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 14, 2010, 09:22:00 PM
Also, should we have an identifier so we know what threads are ours, without having to look to detailed at it?  Perhaps "MA:" at the beginning for Mideast Assembly?  I can add that into the bill if we like that.

So the format would be...

MA: Abortion Bill "Debating" ?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now debating the abortion bill
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 14, 2010, 09:31:51 PM

The title for this post is how I'd imagine it to be done.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: California8429 on November 14, 2010, 09:44:09 PM
Once you add that Inks, I'll bring it to a vote, with no objections


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now debating the abortion bill
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 14, 2010, 09:59:04 PM
Should we consider creating a new thread for each Gubernatorial term, or possibly each session, if we are going to edit the title? Nothing against you Ben, but if you ever go back to a higher office or take a break from the game, we'd be shot. :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now debating the abortion bill
Post by: California8429 on November 14, 2010, 10:56:10 PM
Should we consider creating a new thread for each Gubernatorial term, or possibly each session, if we are going to edit the title? Nothing against you Ben, but if you ever go back to a higher office or take a break from the game, we'd be shot. :P

Either you two misunderstand, or I. This man MAT thread, is NOT going to be used for debating legislation, the Debating Abortion Bill etc will be in separate threads. This will just be a thread to elect the speaker, just the agenda, etc.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 14, 2010, 10:59:25 PM
Also, should we have an identifier so we know what threads are ours, without having to look to detailed at it?  Perhaps "MA:" at the beginning for Mideast Assembly?  I can add that into the bill if we like that.

So the format would be...

MA: Abortion Bill "Debating" ?

No... it'd be

MA: Abortion Bill (Debating)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now debating the abortion bill
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 14, 2010, 11:01:26 PM
Should we consider creating a new thread for each Gubernatorial term, or possibly each session, if we are going to edit the title? Nothing against you Ben, but if you ever go back to a higher office or take a break from the game, we'd be shot. :P

Either you two misunderstand, or I. This man MAT thread, is NOT going to be used for debating legislation, the Debating Abortion Bill etc will be in separate threads. This will just be a thread to elect the speaker, just the agenda, etc.

That's correct.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 15, 2010, 02:28:26 AM
Also... correct me if I'm wrong (my memory is not so great these days ;) )... but PASLBAG is still in effect, and we haven't been debating any of the past legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 15, 2010, 02:35:48 AM
And if PASLBAG is still in effect, perhaps we should have a third thread dedicated to it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: California8429 on November 15, 2010, 08:20:49 PM
Is there anything else you'd like to add Inks before bring it to a vote?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 15, 2010, 11:54:32 PM
My last few posts were kinda meant to be a question... is PASLBAG still in effect?  If so, I'd like to add this:

The Speaker shall also create the "MA: PASLBAG Thread" for the purpose of fulfilling the The Periodical Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government Bill and the subsequent The PASLBAG Relevancy Bill as is directed in said statutes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: California8429 on November 16, 2010, 01:03:58 PM
My last few posts were kinda meant to be a question... is PASLBAG still in effect?  If so, I'd like to add this:

The Speaker shall also create the "MA: PASLBAG Thread" for the purpose of fulfilling the The Periodical Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government Bill and the subsequent The PASLBAG Relevancy Bill as is directed in said statutes.

I'm not sure. That was passed the term before mine. I'll get BBF here because if I am not mistaken, a legislative re-boot was included with the budget bill. Hence why GI JANE sorta ended


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 16, 2010, 01:30:11 PM
What we need is an intern to go through and read over the past 60-or-so pages of this thread. :P

Remind me again what GI JANE was...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: California8429 on November 16, 2010, 02:18:15 PM
What we need is an intern to go through and read over the past 60-or-so pages of this thread. :P

Remind me again what GI JANE was...

economic recovery bill from my first term I believe. Included huge tax cuts. Anyways, my point is that I'm wondering if all bills before the creation of the budget was or will be rebooted?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 16, 2010, 02:39:51 PM
Non-budget bills shouldn't be affected by the budget.  Policy bills shouldn't have been subject to that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 16, 2010, 02:42:37 PM
Did we ever even vote on the budget?  I think we ended up adjourning before we got to it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: California8429 on November 16, 2010, 05:12:06 PM
Did we ever even vote on the budget?  I think we ended up adjourning before we got to it.

I only finished spending. I still need to find some program or budget to base taxes off of, if anyone can provide me with that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: California8429 on November 16, 2010, 05:13:57 PM
How about we vote on the bill now, and if we do pursue PASLBAG, we can create a separate MA: PASLBAG thread. As you said, this bill would pretty much be the guidelines, it doesn't stop us from acting appropriately. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 16, 2010, 06:39:14 PM
Well, let's just throw it in there in case we do (and if we don't, we just won't use it).  So, that puts us at this:

Quote
Mideast Assembly Procedure for LEgislative DEbate and Voting (MAPLEDEV)

The "Mideast Assembly Thread" (MAT) thread shall be used for the following purposes:
  • The introduction of bills, resolutions, and amendments.
  • The posting of any updates to the schedule, calendar, recesses, or other procedural details of the Assembly.
  • Any motions involving the procedure or hierarchy of the Assembly, including a motion for Speaker of the Assembly as well as votes on such a motion.

The Speaker of the Assembly shall create a new thread for each piece of legislation introduced; however, such a thread shall only be created when the Assembly is debating said piece of legislation.
"Piece of legislation" means any bill, resolution, or amendment introduced in the MAT, with the exception of resolutions on the precedure or hierarchy of the Assembly.

The following shall be performed in the legislation thread:
  • All debate on the piece of legislation.
  • The introduction of any amendments to the piece legislation.
  • Any votes on the piece of legislation, including amendments to it.

Included in the thread title should be the current state of the piece of legislation followed by the title in parenthesis:
  • "Debating" - the piece of legislation is actively being debated by the Assembly.
  • "Voting on Amendment" - the Assembly is in the process of voting on an amendment to the proposed legislation.
  • "Final vote" - the Assembly is in the process of taking a final vote.
  • "Passed" - the Assembly voted in favor of the piece of legislation; however, the Governor has not yet signed it.
  • "Failed" - the Assembly voted against the the piece of legislation.
  • "Statute" - the Assembly voted in favor of the piece of legislation, and the Governor signed it into law.
  • "Vetoed" - the Assembly voted in favor of the piece of legislation; however, the Governor vetoed the legislation.
  • "Vote to Override" - the Assembly voted in favor of the piece of legislation; however, the Governor vetoed the legislation, and the Assembly is in a vote to override the veto.
  • "Tabled" - the Assembly voted to table the piece of legislation until a further time.

The Speaker shall also create the "MA: PASLBAG Thread" for the purpose of fulfilling the The Periodical Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government Bill and the subsequent The PASLBAG Relevancy Bill as is directed in said statutes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: Junkie on November 16, 2010, 07:46:32 PM
looks good to me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: California8429 on November 16, 2010, 08:46:10 PM
Voting for Mideast Assembly Procedure for LEgislative DEbate and Voting (MAPLEDEV) is now open. Voting will last for 48 hours or until every Assemblymember has voted. Please voted Aye, Nay, or Abstain.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: California8429 on November 16, 2010, 08:48:12 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: Junkie on November 16, 2010, 09:52:03 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 16, 2010, 10:01:21 PM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on November 16, 2010, 10:20:23 PM

^^^^

I vote yes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 17, 2010, 01:15:44 AM
AYE


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: California8429 on November 17, 2010, 08:09:07 PM
Mideast Assembly Procedure for LEgislative DEbate and Voting (MAPLEDEV) has passed.

Aye-5
Nay-0

The only question I have is does this go to the Governor's desk? It is a matter of internal Assembly affairs so I'm not sure if he needs to sign it Consitutionally. Does anyone know legally how this needs to be worked out?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 17, 2010, 09:01:36 PM
Introduced on behalf of the Governor:

The Bake Sale Act

No municipality or jurisdiction, within Atlasia, shall deny recognized organizations or school-sponsored entities from selling wares which shall be legally offered within Atlasia on the grounds of any public educational facility in areas outside of any classroom, but within and upon school grounds provided that such transactions are for purposes of fundraising for the specific organization in question. Any municipality or jurisdiction prohibiting such action by regulation is hereby enjoined from enforcing such ordinance or regulation if enforcement shall contradict any of the provisions specified in this act.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 17, 2010, 10:05:20 PM
Introduced on behalf of the Governor:

The Bake Sale Act

No municipality or jurisdiction, within Atlasia, shall deny recognized organizations or school-sponsored entities from selling wares which shall be legally offered within Atlasia on the grounds of any public educational facility in areas outside of any classroom, but within and upon school grounds provided that such transactions are for purposes of fundraising for the specific organization in question. Any municipality or jurisdiction prohibiting such action by regulation is hereby enjoined from enforcing such ordinance or regulation if enforcement shall contradict any of the provisions specified in this act.
Inspired by this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40194328/ns/us_news-life

I actually created it as a federal law, but then reckoned it'd be better at the regional level, so all of the "Atlasias" would need to be changed to "Mideast region".


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on November 17, 2010, 10:19:12 PM
Introduced on behalf of the Governor:

The Bake Sale Act

No municipality or jurisdiction, within Atlasia, shall deny recognized organizations or school-sponsored entities from selling wares which shall be legally offered within Atlasia on the grounds of any public educational facility in areas outside of any classroom, but within and upon school grounds provided that such transactions are for purposes of fundraising for the specific organization in question. Any municipality or jurisdiction prohibiting such action by regulation is hereby enjoined from enforcing such ordinance or regulation if enforcement shall contradict any of the provisions specified in this act.
Inspired by this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40194328/ns/us_news-life

I actually created it as a federal law, but then reckoned it'd be better at the regional level, so all of the "Atlasias" would need to be changed to "Mideast region".

Yes, of course. We can't talk about "Atlasia" when we're only one region (that is, we can't apply our own, regional laws to the entire nation, of course!)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 18, 2010, 12:23:45 AM
Do we need the Governor's signature on MAPLEDEV?  I think it could probably be passed as a resolution, but would that make it carry over when our sessions end?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: Junkie on November 18, 2010, 12:58:01 AM
In my opinion, the MAPLEDEV does not need to be signed by the Governor.  It is a set of rules for the Assembly imposed by the Assembly.  As such, it would have to be passed again at the beginning of every session as the rules that session will be run by.  Making it a statute signed by the Governor makes it law -- which would require a statute to overturn as opposed to a simple changing of the Assembly rules.

And in regards to that Town Board member who called the cops on 13 year olds selling cupcakes -- I want to punch him in the balls.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 18, 2010, 01:42:44 AM
Well, since I didn't specify it as a resolution, my opinion would be to have the Governor sign it... once that happens, we can get going with implimenting it, so that we can start knocking off all these bills that are piling up! :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread: Now Debating the Abortion Bill
Post by: California8429 on November 18, 2010, 01:17:00 PM
The Governor has signed it into law and I have created the first threads.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 23, 2010, 05:57:48 PM
Announcement

Voting is open on the Bakesale final version of the bill, and on a very important firearms bill amendement. Please vote ASAP on these so we can get the bills finalized by the end of the session.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 27, 2010, 06:02:44 PM
Everybody, sign in!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 27, 2010, 06:18:44 PM
Does TC open the vote for speaker since he was Dean last session after I became Speaker?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 27, 2010, 06:20:08 PM
That works... we don't really have specific rules for doing that, so whatever you guys want to do is fine...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 27, 2010, 08:03:13 PM
The "Mideast Labor Code Statute" is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 1
The Mideast Minimum Wage Statute is hereby repealed.

Section 2

All paid jobs in the service and manufacturing sector will have a minimum wage defined as follows:

A. $6.50 per hour indexed to annual inflation.

B. Organizations that are not listed as a Non-Profit Organization with a revenue of less than $40,000 in the previous fiscal year indexed to annual inflation shall be exempted from parts A and B.

Section 3
A work week shall be defined as 40 hours of paid work within a seven-day period. Additionally, employees may receive, but are not obliged to receive, extra salary for paid work exceeding the work week:

A. Up to 50% more than their regular wage for the 40th to 50th working hour of the week.
B. Up to 100% more than their regular wage exceeding the 50th working hour of the week.
C. Parts A and B shall not apply for all administrative positions.

Section 4
All occupational work must be conducted in safety conditions that are acceptably safe. A Workplace Safety Commission (WSC) shall be established to oversee safety commissions and set reasonable standards. Additionally, the WSC shall be granted the following powers:

1. To randomly inspect, with unfettered access, the safety conditions of all workplaces.
2. To order steps to be taken to improve safety standards for employers that do not adequately meet standards.
3. To punish employers who consistently fail to abide by safety standards, including but not limited to fines, confiscations and closure.

Section 5
Any employee who is injured while performing occupational work shall have any medical expenses covered by the employer.

Section 6
The immediate relatives of any employee who is killed while performing occupational work shall be compensated no less than $15,000, indexed to annual inflation, by the employer. Businesses with a revenue of less than $500,000 in the previous fiscal year, indexed to annual inflation, and not-for-profit groups, may produce compensation through annual installments.

Section 7
No employer may dismiss any employee who refuses to work in conditions perceived to be unsafe and who immediately notifies supervising personnel.

I have an opening comment ready for when a thread is created.

Original Bill: https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Labor_Code_Statute


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 27, 2010, 08:18:20 PM
While waiting for Junkie to swear in, and after consulting tmth, since officially we have no Speaker with this new session, this puts me back into the position of Dean of the Assembly. Therefore, I will open up nominations for Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on November 27, 2010, 08:33:38 PM
I nominate A-Bob.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 27, 2010, 09:18:18 PM
Singing in.  Sorry, had to work and then the lady made me go Christmas shopping. Ready to work.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 27, 2010, 09:28:44 PM
Great. Now that we're all here are there any further nominations before this is brought to a vote?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 27, 2010, 09:53:02 PM
Since everyone has been online very recently and had the chance and have viewed this thread, I will move forward to a vote in order to get on to our regular business.

Voting for Speaker will last for 48 hours or until every Assemblymember has voted. Please vote for an Assemblymember or Abstain from voting.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 27, 2010, 09:54:05 PM
A-Bob


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 27, 2010, 09:55:55 PM
A-Bob


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on November 27, 2010, 09:59:55 PM
A-Bob


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on November 27, 2010, 10:31:56 PM
A-Bob


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 28, 2010, 02:31:29 AM
A-Bob


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 28, 2010, 01:15:22 PM
Voting is now closed.

A-Bob has been elected Speaker 5-0

True Conservative has now become the Dean of the Assembly


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 28, 2010, 03:11:21 PM
Abortion Reduction

Section 1
a.   There shall be a $1,000 health care deduction for children under the age of 3.
b.   Upon birth, a child in the Mideast may receive a non-taxable health savings account starting with the funds from clause a. Money may be deposited and withdrawn at any time for health related purposes of the child.
c.   A married couple may receive another $500 deposit from the Mideast for the new born child.

Section 2
a.   Parents who do not pay their child support payments will be subject up to a $25,000 fine and or up to 3 years in prison.
b.   Parents who do not pay their child support payments will be exempt from any hunting or fishing license.
c.   Parents who do not pay their child support payments will not be allowed to use casinos. Casinos will be required to do a computerized background check on all customers before allowing them to enter the building.
d.   The computerized background check system will be created and given access to casinos and any other company or organizations that asks for the system by the Mideast government.

Section 3
a.   Section 1 will be funded by “Family support payments” in the regional budget and “State Children's Health Insurance” as well as the funds collected in Section 2 clause a.
b.   Section 2 will be funded by “Regional law enforcement and security” in the regional budget as well as the funds collected in Section 2 clause a.

Section 4
a.   The law will take effect after the passing of the regional budget.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 28, 2010, 04:26:47 PM
I would like to introduce this now that we're in the new session:

Quote
MIDEAST FIREARMS SAFETY ACT

1.)   Definitions:

a.   In this act:

i.    "Firearm" means any weapon designed to discharge a projectile by means of gunpowder.

ii.    "Specified felony" means any felonious crime that (i) has as an element of the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the person of another (Such crimes include, but are not limited to, theft, robbery, homicide, attempted homicide, forcible sexual assault, sexual assault of a child, kidnapping, false imprisonment, substantial and aggravated battery, auto theft, and car jackings.); or (ii) is burglary, arson, or extortion, involves use of explosives, or otherwise involves conduct that presents a serious potential risk of physical injury to another.

2.)   No person may conceal and carry a firearm on their person in public places unless they have completed a government firearms safety course and have been issued a proper license.  These licenses must be renewed every 10 years.

3.)   Violation of Section 2 is punishable by a fine of not more $10,000 or imprisonment of not more than 3 years or both.

4.)   No person may possess a firearm if they have:

a.   Been convicted of a specified felony or adjudicated delinquent of a felony in the Mideast Region, or

b.   Been convicted of a specified felony or adjudicated delinquent of a felony in another Region, or

c.   Been convicted of a specified felony or adjudicated delinquent of a felony under Federal Law.

5.)   Violation of Section 4 is punishable by a fine of not more than $25,000 or imprisonment of not more than 5 years or both.

6.)   No person may possess a shotgun or rifle with a barrel length of under 16 inches.

7.)   Violation of Section 6 is punishable by a fine of not more than $25,000 or imprisonment of not more than 5 years or both.

8.)   The Second Concealed Carry Statute is hereby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on November 29, 2010, 07:08:44 PM
I would like to introduce this now that we're in the new session:

Quote
MIDEAST FIREARMS SAFETY ACT

1.)   Definitions:

a.   In this act:

i.    "Firearm" means any weapon designed to discharge a projectile by means of gunpowder.

ii.    "Specified felony" means any felonious crime that (i) has as an element of the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the person of another (Such crimes include, but are not limited to, theft, robbery, homicide, attempted homicide, forcible sexual assault, sexual assault of a child, kidnapping, false imprisonment, substantial and aggravated battery, auto theft, and car jackings.); or (ii) is burglary, arson, or extortion, involves use of explosives, or otherwise involves conduct that presents a serious potential risk of physical injury to another.

2.)   No person may conceal and carry a firearm on their person in public places unless they have completed a government firearms safety course and have been issued a proper license.  These licenses must be renewed every 10 years.

3.)   Violation of Section 2 is punishable by a fine of not more $10,000 or imprisonment of not more than 3 years or both.

4.)   No person may possess a firearm if they have:

a.   Been convicted of a specified felony or adjudicated delinquent of a felony in the Mideast Region, or

b.   Been convicted of a specified felony or adjudicated delinquent of a felony in another Region, or

c.   Been convicted of a specified felony or adjudicated delinquent of a felony under Federal Law.

5.)   Violation of Section 4 is punishable by a fine of not more than $25,000 or imprisonment of not more than 5 years or both.

6.)   No person may possess a shotgun or rifle with a barrel length of under 16 inches.

7.)   Violation of Section 6 is punishable by a fine of not more than $25,000 or imprisonment of not more than 5 years or both.

8.)   The Second Concealed Carry Statute is hereby repealed.

FWIW, I actually have to agree with A-Bob and Inks on the definition of "firearm". The key word appears to be "designed", which would talk an awfully convoluted ruling from a trial judge (not that those ever happen, right Junkie ;)) to interpret to mean an unloaded or temporarily inoperable firearm.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Junkie on November 29, 2010, 07:34:59 PM
FWIW, I actually have to agree with A-Bob and Inks on the definition of "firearm". The key word appears to be "designed", which would talk an awfully convoluted ruling from a trial judge (not that those ever happen, right Junkie ;)) to interpret to mean an unloaded or temporarily inoperable firearm.

The only reason we get it in the jury instructions is because it is in the statute.  That being said, the statute is fine.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Dr. Cynic on December 03, 2010, 10:06:56 AM
Because the Governor has no office, I post this here:

All heads of regional govt's, please check my office (The Internal Affairs office) for important business...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 03, 2010, 11:13:08 AM
He does... it's still in the old board.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 03, 2010, 03:00:08 PM
A new stimulus bill has been introduced:

Quote
2010 Federal Stimulus Act

Section 1:  “Social Obligations”
   Clause 1: $75 billion to extend unemployment for 25 weeks
   Clause 2: $25 billion to increase Food Stamps benefits by 5% for 15 weeks
   

Section 2: Critical Investments
Definitions:
      A. Supporting Infrastructure is defined as any road, rail, pipe line, electrical power line, or any other implement necessary to support a development project.
   Clause 1: $25 billion for the Secretary of Internal Affairs to distribute to the regions proportionally according to need for critical highway projects and highway maintenance.
   Clause 2: $15 billion for education expenditures to be distributed to the Regions as follows and appropriated for the most pressing need in each region’s education system as determined by the Regional Gov’t.
         Distributed as follows:
            2. Mideast $5 billion
            3. Southeast $3 billion
            1. Northeast: $3 billion
            4. Pacific: $2 billion
            5. Midwest $ 2 billion

      
   Clause 3: $8 billion for the Secretary of Internal Affairs to distribute to the regions proportionally for sewer and water treatment filtration upgrades and maintenance
   Clause 4: $5 billion for development and construction of coal to liquid plants, and supporting infrastructure.
         Distributed as follows:
            1. Southeast: $2  billion
            2. Mideast: $1.5 billion
            3. Northeast $1.2 billion
            4. Midwest: $ 800 million
            5. Pacific: $500 million
   Clause 5: $5 billion for Power grid upgrades and maintenance, distributed to the regions based on the Secretary of Internal Affair’s best judgment.
   Clause 6: $3 billion for the construction of Wind Power plants and supporting infrastructure.
         Distributed as Follow
            1. Midwest: $2 billion
            2. Pacific: $400 million
            3. Southeast: $400 million
            4. Northeast: $200 million

   Clause 7: $2 billion for the construction of Solar Power plants and supporting infrastructure.
         Distributed as Follows:
            1. Pacific: $1 billion
            2. Midwest $500 million
            3. Southeast $500 million

   Clause 8: $1 billion for federal building upgrades to be allocated by the Secretary of Internal Affairs, within each region according to economic conditions within.
   Clause 9:  $600 million for the Regional Crime prevention initiatives to be distributed to the Regions by the Secretary of the Interior.
   Clause 10: The choices of suppliers of materials and equipment for the projects allocated money in Section 2, shall be determined by the lowest cost provider within a range of distances with the lowest possible transportation costs. 


SoIA Cynic has requested that each Governor state where they believe their region needs the most funds, and where it needs the least. I have already been in contact with Senator Yankee on this matter, as has A-Bob. I'm opening this up to the entire Assembly now, and even private residents of the Mideast.

Where do you feel our region could use more money, and where could we use less?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on December 04, 2010, 08:45:24 AM
Do you support this new stimulus package? I don't.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 05, 2010, 09:06:25 PM
Quote
Charter School Act

Section 1

The Mideast Region hereby eliminates the cap on the creation and maintenance of Charter Schools. The elimination of this cap shall not relieve the Mideast Region from its responsibility to audit any Charter School or hold such institutions to statewide standards.

Section 2

This act shall take effect immediately.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 11, 2010, 07:44:24 PM
The flow of bills going through is starting to slow down a bit, so I suggest we spend some time focusing on the budget. If someone has a bill they'd like to introduce, you can still introduce it, and we'll discuss it. But during this busy time, the budget has taken a back-burner, and I think it's time to bring it to the front.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on December 11, 2010, 10:16:00 PM
I'd like to introduce a second abortion reduction bill, this one addressing things such as adoption, which wasn't covered in the original. I was too lazy to try to amend the original while the debate was going on, and if I actually got the work ethic to introduce this, I wouldn't know the wording to use, so I'd need help from a more senior member.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on December 11, 2010, 10:38:37 PM
We can't debate the budget really until we get a report from the GM.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 12, 2010, 12:42:02 PM
I'd like to introduce a second abortion reduction bill, this one addressing things such as adoption, which wasn't covered in the original. I was too lazy to try to amend the original while the debate was going on, and if I actually got the work ethic to introduce this, I wouldn't know the wording to use, so I'd need help from a more senior member.
Inks would be great for that. Actually, any of your colleagues would be, and I could pitch in too. :P It's okay if the first draft isn't perfect.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 13, 2010, 04:33:20 AM
I'd like to introduce a second abortion reduction bill, this one addressing things such as adoption, which wasn't covered in the original. I was too lazy to try to amend the original while the debate was going on, and if I actually got the work ethic to introduce this, I wouldn't know the wording to use, so I'd need help from a more senior member.
Inks would be great for that. Actually, any of your colleagues would be, and I could pitch in too. :P It's okay if the first draft isn't perfect.

Yeah... draft up a rough sketch and I'll work with it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on December 13, 2010, 08:21:52 AM
I'd like to introduce a second abortion reduction bill, this one addressing things such as adoption, which wasn't covered in the original. I was too lazy to try to amend the original while the debate was going on, and if I actually got the work ethic to introduce this, I wouldn't know the wording to use, so I'd need help from a more senior member.
Inks would be great for that. Actually, any of your colleagues would be, and I could pitch in too. :P It's okay if the first draft isn't perfect.

Yeah... draft up a rough sketch and I'll work with it.

Thing is, I don't really know how to spell out in reality "increase availability of orphanages". That takes a lot more than just those four words. I'll probably work on it on Microsoft Word for a couple of days, though I'm going to be really busy tomorrow.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 15, 2010, 09:56:17 PM
I'd like to introduce a second abortion reduction bill, this one addressing things such as adoption, which wasn't covered in the original. I was too lazy to try to amend the original while the debate was going on, and if I actually got the work ethic to introduce this, I wouldn't know the wording to use, so I'd need help from a more senior member.
Inks would be great for that. Actually, any of your colleagues would be, and I could pitch in too. :P It's okay if the first draft isn't perfect.

Yeah... draft up a rough sketch and I'll work with it.

Thing is, I don't really know how to spell out in reality "increase availability of orphanages". That takes a lot more than just those four words. I'll probably work on it on Microsoft Word for a couple of days, though I'm going to be really busy tomorrow.

OK... I mean... even just an outline.  Something I can work with.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 20, 2010, 03:49:35 PM
Assembly:

As Governor of the Mideast, I'd like to first thank you for doing this. Hopefully questions will be answered in this meeting that will lead to economical improvements in our nation. That being said, my question for you is this: What would recommend the Mideast Assembly do to create a stronger economy for our region and lower our high unemployment numbers?

I would think instead of focusing on abortion reductions or doing very little at all recently, you might want to press on to create green jobs. Or really any jobs. You're not writing much legislation right now, so maybe redouble your efforts to spur them to focus on regional employment measures until the stimulus can pass.

While I personally disagree with the SoIA's comments that we've done very little recently, as I think we've made several improvements already in education and a couple other areas, as well as a nearly completed budget, he is right on the fact that we should be doing more to create jobs. So any of you, feel free to write something up, and we can work with it. Or maybe I just will have to. :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 20, 2010, 04:09:28 PM
Quote
Labor Relations Act

Section 1

A. It is hereby unlawful in the Mideast Region for any company or organization to require an employee to join a union (or labor organization) or pay union dues in order to be employed or to maintain their employment.

B. It is hereby unlawful in the Mideast Region for any employer to refuse to hire or maintain the employment of an employee because the employee desires to join a union. Any attempt to destroy a union organization by an employer is also deemed unlawful.

C. Any attempt by a company or organization to infringe on this right may result in a civil lawsuit brought by the state on behalf of the aggrieved employee.

Section 2

A. The Mideast Anti Union Busting Statue is hereby repealed.

Link to "Mideast Anti Union Busting Statue": https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Anti_Union_Busting_Statute


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on December 20, 2010, 04:44:57 PM
Assembly:

As Governor of the Mideast, I'd like to first thank you for doing this. Hopefully questions will be answered in this meeting that will lead to economical improvements in our nation. That being said, my question for you is this: What would recommend the Mideast Assembly do to create a stronger economy for our region and lower our high unemployment numbers?

I would think instead of focusing on abortion reductions or doing very little at all recently, you might want to press on to create green jobs. Or really any jobs. You're not writing much legislation right now, so maybe redouble your efforts to spur them to focus on regional employment measures until the stimulus can pass.

While I personally disagree with the SoIA's comments that we've done very little recently, as I think we've made several improvements already in education and a couple other areas, as well as a nearly completed budget, he is right on the fact that we should be doing more to create jobs. So any of you, feel free to write something up, and we can work with it. Or maybe I just will have to. :P

It is a complete waste of time to do any economic growth bills really before the budget is passed. 1) everything is reset 2) what are you going to do, cut imaginary corporate tax numbers or something and then have that replaced once the budget passes? 3) have the spending repealed?

If anyone wants to draft something, go ahead, but I'm not going to waste any time until the budget is passed and we actually have substance to work with and can specficially control the funds.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on December 21, 2010, 09:27:28 AM
Quote
Labor Relations Act

Section 1

A. It is hereby unlawful in the Mideast Region for any company or organization to require an employee to join a union (or labor organization) or pay union dues in order to be employed or to maintain their employment.

B. It is hereby unlawful in the Mideast Region for any employer to refuse to hire or maintain the employment of an employee because the employee desires to join a union. Any attempt to destroy a union organization by an employer is also deemed unlawful.

C. Any attempt by a company or organization to infringe on this right may result in a civil lawsuit brought by the state on behalf of the aggrieved employee.

Section 2

A. The Mideast Anti Union Busting Statue is hereby repealed.

Link to "Mideast Anti Union Busting Statue": https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Anti_Union_Busting_Statute

Ugh! So we switch prosecution of illegal union busting from The Mideast Department of Labor to the individual him/herself? Jane Doe vs. Wal-Mart: See which side runs out of money first and we can all guess the outcome of this legislation.

What possible reason is there to repeal the Union-Busting Statute? It's worked fine. This seems just a iron hand in a velvet gloved way of weakening employees rights to organize in favor of large corporations.

"Right to Work" simply means that any advances made by union employees in a company for better working conditions, health insurance, and other fringe benefits are granted to non-union workers who leach of the organizaton's hard won negotiations without ever having to pay union dues or potentially go on strike. If that's the case, why would anyone ever join a union?

But then that's the real point here, isn't it?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on January 01, 2011, 11:45:31 PM
To the Assembly,
As many of you know, I have officially announced my candidacy for President of Atlasia. :) I want to assure y'all that in no way will this distract me. My number one focus in Atlasia is not running that campaign, but it's doing my job and finishing out this term strong. Hopefully we can finish that dern budget this session! :P

Isaac


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 13, 2011, 09:42:43 PM
As pointed out by Afleitch, we do need to fix the Bake Sales Act to restrict it to baked goods.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on January 13, 2011, 09:50:46 PM
As pointed out by Afleitch, we do need to fix the Bake Sales Act to restrict it to baked goods.

Do you have an amendment outlined to get it going? (Hopefully we can pass it by elections)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 15, 2011, 11:53:22 PM
I'd like to introduce the following as an amendment to The Bake Sale Act:

Quote
The following shall be added in place of the word "wares":

"otherwise legal edible goods"


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on January 16, 2011, 12:06:32 AM
As the author of our new system of government Inks, is it correct for me to set up a new bill thread or just add your amendment and reopen debate on the current law's thread?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 16, 2011, 12:13:28 AM
It's technically a "new" law, so it'd get a new thread.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on January 16, 2011, 09:26:19 PM
Going along with PiT in the IDS, I'd like to ask the Assembly to consider the following bill, written by Senator and Former President Lief.
Quote
Freedom to Consume Alcohol in Public Bill

1) Possession of open containers of alcohol, the consumption of alcohol, and public intoxication by persons eighteen years of age or older in public open space and when riding on public transportation shall no longer be prohibited. All laws prohibiting the above are hereby repealed.

2) This act shall not be construed to allow possession of open containers of alcohol, the consumption of alcohol, or public intoxication in public buildings or in private vehicles.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 29, 2011, 12:39:16 AM
As Dean of the Assembly, I will now accept nominations for Speaker.  I'll be away until Monday with limited access, so the vote will not be until Monday most likely.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on January 29, 2011, 06:10:10 AM
I nominate Inks.LWC for Speaker


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on January 29, 2011, 09:41:54 AM

Seconded


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis on January 30, 2011, 04:25:15 PM
Inks as Speaker is fine by me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on January 31, 2011, 04:23:11 PM
more than fine by me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on January 31, 2011, 05:52:08 PM
When Inks is elected, who becomes Dean. All other 4 have not had consecutive terms. Do we go by overall seniority/presence in the Assembly since the foundation of the Assembly?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on January 31, 2011, 06:31:43 PM
When Inks is elected, who becomes Dean. All other 4 have not had consecutive terms. Do we go by overall seniority/presence in the Assembly since the foundation of the Assembly?
I knew I couldn't stay away from here for long! :P

Since all four other Assemblymembers are newly elected, it'll go by who swore in first, not overall seniority. Therefore, Swedish Cheese will be the Dean of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 31, 2011, 09:27:02 PM
Having received the support of my four other colleagues, I don't think a vote is necessary.

Also, A-Bob, I believe I would still be Dean of the Assembly.

Now, anybody wishing to introduce legislation may do so.  As a reminder, any business being considered by the Assembly last session will have to be reintroduced if the Assembly wishes to move forward with it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on January 31, 2011, 09:44:27 PM
It's impossible you can hold both positions at once. I think tmth is right then that Swedish is next in line since he took the oath of office first. (correct me if I'm wrong) Not that it matters greatly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 31, 2011, 10:28:36 PM
It's impossible you can hold both positions at once. I think tmth is right then that Swedish is next in line since he took the oath of office first. (correct me if I'm wrong) Not that it matters greatly.

What's your basis for saying you can't hold both?  It's been done in the U.S. House...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on January 31, 2011, 10:37:44 PM
It's impossible you can hold both positions at once. I think tmth is right then that Swedish is next in line since he took the oath of office first. (correct me if I'm wrong) Not that it matters greatly.

What's your basis for saying you can't hold both?  It's been done in the U.S. House...

What's his U.S. House you speak of ;)

Every Dean that has moved to Speaker (at least during my time here) has been replaced by the next in line. When I moved up, TC became Dean. And When you left for the Senate, there was question over if I or HW were next in line since he had the most consecutive terms while I had been in the Assembly longer, though I was out for one week. Since you are Speaker, Swedish would be next in line for Dean because technically, he has been here second longest.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis on January 31, 2011, 11:18:57 PM
OK, for the sake of expediency, I'll reintroduce legislation that was being discussed in the previous assembly. I'm not necessarily advocating the legislation.

Quote
Freedom to Consume Alcohol in Public Bill

1) Possession of open containers of alcohol, the consumption of alcohol, and public intoxication by persons eighteen years of age or older in public open space and when riding on public transportation shall no longer be prohibited. All laws prohibiting the above are hereby repealed.

2) This act shall not be construed to allow possession of open containers of alcohol, the consumption of alcohol, or public intoxication in public buildings or in private vehicles.


Sponsor- Governor tmth

Quote
Labor Relations Act

Section 1

A. It is hereby unlawful in the Mideast Region for any company or organization to require an employee to join a union (or labor organization) or pay union dues in order to be employed or to maintain their employment.

B. It is hereby unlawful in the Mideast Region for any employer to refuse to hire or maintain the employment of an employee because the employee desires to join a union. Any attempt to destroy a union organization by an employer is also deemed unlawful.

C. Any attempt by a company or organization to infringe on this right may result in a civil lawsuit brought by the state on behalf of the aggrieved employee.

Section 2

A. The Mideast Anti Union Busting Statue is hereby repealed.

Sponsor- Governor tmth

There. Time saved! ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on February 01, 2011, 01:16:24 PM
i'm not sure what this means. did Ogis just change the bills from last session back to their original, unamended form?  and is he officially the sponsor of the legislation now?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on February 01, 2011, 01:47:20 PM
i'm not sure what this means. did Ogis just change the bills from last session back to their original, unamended form?  and is he officially the sponsor of the legislation now?

Yes that's correct. He's reintroducing the originial forms, and he would become the sponsor. Governor tmth would not be able to be the sponor without multiple other non assembly members joining him.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 01, 2011, 07:41:45 PM
Before I make the threads, Ogis, did you really want to start those bills at square one, or start where we left off with amended versions?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on February 01, 2011, 07:59:04 PM
Before I make the threads, Ogis, did you really want to start those bills at square one, or start where we left off with amended versions?

or even better, amended to the point where people approved.

Aka the amended version of the Alcohol bill and a halfish amended version of the Labor bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis on February 03, 2011, 01:26:12 AM
Yes, let's start with the amended versions, and move from there.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on February 05, 2011, 06:43:25 PM
Please note the following bill is tabled.

Third Mideast Abortion Statute


1: No abortions shall be permitted after the First Trimester without the positive consent of two qualified and registered physicians. No abortions shall be permitted after the 180th day of a pregnancy except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest.
2: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall have any existing license from the Mideast Region or a subdivision thereof to practice a medical profession revoked for up to five years.
3: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall be sentenced to up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to $50,000. Any person knowingly facilitating the inducement of a prohibited abortion shall be subject to a criminal fine of up to $10,000 and/or six months in prison.
4: The Second Mideast Abortion statute is hereby repealed.

-----

Assemblymen please note that this bill is a 'compromise' between the existing statute and the first ststaue.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on February 07, 2011, 10:13:15 PM
is there an index of all standing Mideast statutes?
if not, I think it would be good to create one.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 07, 2011, 11:10:12 PM
Go to the wiki --> Mideast Region --> Statutes at the bottom.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 09, 2011, 12:50:13 AM
I will be out of town until Sunday.  I expect Internet access, although I won't be on much, so the Assembly may run a little slower until Monday.  Although, this isn't too bad, since Agooji is out sick.  Other than what we have on the table now, I'll probably hold off on anything too important until he returns.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis on February 09, 2011, 07:58:19 PM
I will be out of town until Sunday.  I expect Internet access, although I won't be on much, so the Assembly may run a little slower until Monday.  Although, this isn't too bad, since Agooji is out sick.  Other than what we have on the table now, I'll probably hold off on anything too important until he returns.

I'm back, but we can wait on the important stuff until next week, until you get back. Thanks for being so understanding :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on February 10, 2011, 12:08:27 PM
Child Support Act

Section 1. The Abortion Reduction Act is hereby repealed

Section 2a. Parents who do not pay their child support payments if in paid employment will be subject up to a maximum $5,000 fine or 30 day's imprisonment. A repeat offence will be subject to a maximum $7,500 fine or 60 days imprisonment.

Section 2b. Parents who do not pay their child support payments if not in paid employment will be subject up to a maximum $1,000 fine or a suspension to the payment of social security if in receipt, or 30 day's imprisonment. A repeat offence will be subject to a maximum $7,500 fine, continued suspension to the payment of social security or 60 days imprisonment.

Section 2c. Courts shall be granted through this Act the authority to suspend the offenders drivers license for a maximum of 60 days.

Section 2d. Courts shall be granted through this Act the authority to make payment of the fine to the child/children equally in Trust or to the primary parent/guardian or carer of the the child/children.

---------

I note that the 'Abortion Reduction' Act is not yet law as a regional budget has not been passed. As I explained (and I am willing to regurgitate) the bill is not only unworkable but makes assumptions about the reasons why child support is not made. While it presumes that such people like to gamble it all away in casinos (I'd have thought it more likely they waste it down the pub myself if we're resorting to sterotypes...), it also seems to infer that people won't be able to pay a $25,000 fine so will be probably end up in prison either instead of the fine or due to non-payment. Where of course they will not have access to their child and will not have the opportunity to work to support the child. Indeed the child gets nothing of any material or financial value out of this part of the Act.

The $1000 health care reduction and associated funds have been removed. This is uneccesary; the Atlasian Health Care Act provides universal healthcare. Instead I have included a provision that the court may, through it's discretion allow the payment of any fine go directly to the child or the main parent/guardian for their benefit.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis on February 16, 2011, 03:01:06 AM
Speaker No Confidence Amendment

Article III, Section 6 is created to read:

Section 6: No Confidence

1. One-fourth of the registered voters in the Mideast may propose a vote of No Confidence in the Speaker of the Assembly.
2. A popular No Confidence vote shall begin within ten days of their accumulating the necessary support and shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on a Thursday and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
3. A special Assembly meeting shall take place to accumulate the necessary support, and shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on a Thursday and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
      i. The Governor of the Mideast shall open and close the official Assembly voting in place of the Speaker.
4. If a majority or the general populace votes No Confidence, and three of the four unaffected members of Assembly concur in a special election, then the Speaker shall be relieved of his or her duties immediately, but is permitted to retain the office of Assemblyperson.
5. The office of Speaker of the Assembly is awarded to the next in line as dictated by law.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on February 17, 2011, 12:52:43 PM
Amendment to The Public Procurement Policy Bill
Section 1 is amended to read;

The government and all public institutions of the Mideast, when they intend to purchase goods, works or services over a cost estimate of $1000, shall make a call for tenders. In their call, they shall explain the consistence of goods, works or services required, the cost estimate, the ceiling set for public spending, the process for bidding, the information required from the bidders, the criterias set to be selected.

---

Amended section in italics. The amendment is proposed to ensure that a government office doesn't have to put out to tender the purchase of small/petty goods (for example; a water cooler) and services where a tendering process would inflate that cost and lead to unnecessary administrative red-tape.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on February 21, 2011, 08:01:30 AM
Since nobody follows it, cares about it, or even seem to acknowledge its existance. I think it'd be pretty uncontroversial to repeal this legislation.

Quote
Repeal of Bill Nobody Cares About Act

The Periodical Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government Bill is herby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 21, 2011, 05:40:45 PM
Since nobody follows it, cares about it, or even seem to acknowledge its existance. I think it'd be pretty uncontroversial to repeal this legislation.

Quote
Repeal of Bill Nobody Cares About Act

The Periodical Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government Bill is herby repealed.


I'd actually planned on starting PASLBAG up this week, but if we want to get rid of it, I guess it's up to you guys.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on February 22, 2011, 08:20:27 AM
Since nobody follows it, cares about it, or even seem to acknowledge its existance. I think it'd be pretty uncontroversial to repeal this legislation.

Quote
Repeal of Bill Nobody Cares About Act

The Periodical Assessment of Statute Laws for a Better Accountability of our Government Bill is herby repealed.


I'd actually planned on starting PASLBAG up this week, but if we want to get rid of it, I guess it's up to you guys.

I still think it's a terrible idea, so yes I still wish to see it replealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 06, 2011, 03:39:46 PM
Well does anybody else have any bills?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on March 06, 2011, 08:23:17 PM
I may have something soon about reforming our teaching pay system soon. No surprises, it's the same thing I spoke about many sessions ago about balancing multiple areas.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on March 07, 2011, 12:13:28 AM
I've been thinking about the request from the region in the the stimulus bill.  My understanding (please correct me if i am wrong) is that the assembly was not directly involved in the process, and i'm thinking of putting together a bill to change that the next time this arises, as i believe the deliberation of the assembly could have improve it.
thoughts?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 07, 2011, 02:45:21 AM
Well, anything we pass wouldn't have any real effect... that be change that'd have to happen at the federal level.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on March 07, 2011, 05:36:06 PM
I've been thinking about the request from the region in the the stimulus bill.  My understanding (please correct me if i am wrong) is that the assembly was not directly involved in the process, and i'm thinking of putting together a bill to change that the next time this arises, as i believe the deliberation of the assembly could have improve it.
thoughts?

The Senator and Governor tmth worked together on it and I worked with tmth and eventually HW as well. So there was consent per se. However, we were given a few billion at our own dispense to use up as the Assembly deems it (which looks like it will go to make up the budget deficit).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on March 07, 2011, 05:54:38 PM
I guess I'll introduce this, just to get it rolling. As you can see it's no where near complete, but I would like all of your input, debate, amendments, etc.

The Teaching Salary Act

Section 1
Public education teaching payment shall be based on the following:
30% Education acquired by degree, in any area. The greater amount of degrees and the more advanced degree will result in a higher salary.
35% Years spent teaching in public, private, charter schools, or universities. The longer a teacher has spent teaching, the greater their salary.
30% Regional test score results for their students. The higher the regional test scores the students they teach score, the greater their salary.
5% Former occupation related to teaching. For teachers who have had occupations related to their current teaching (like an engineering now teaching math), they will have a greater salary.

Section 2
The starting teacher salary will be $35,000 annually and will between this amount and $65,000 for any other given year based on Section 1’s formula. The teaching salary will be based on a sliding scale

Section 3
Each year there will be an annual test developed by the education department of the Mideast Government for grades 3-10 in the areas of math, writing, reading, science, and social studies. This regional test will be used to determine the 30% of the salary based on regional testing scores for teachers. Teachers who teach Advanced Placement (AP) or International Baccalaureate (IB) will be scored on student’s results if they teach 11th or 12th grade students whom will not take the regional test due to local district requirements. Scores of the regional test will only affect the teacher teaching in their specific area (an English teacher is only scored on Writing and Reading).

Section 4
Teachers who do not teach a subject related to Math, Writing, Reading, Science, and Social Studies, and/or do not teach an AP or IB class, will not be subject to the 30% teaching salary category based on the regional test scores. Teachers who fall into the Section 4 category will only have the ability to achieve a maximum of $60,000 annually for salary.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on March 09, 2011, 12:21:46 PM
What about those who teach classes that emphasize the arts (band, choir, orchestra, industrial)? They should have the same incentives that the teachers that teach the standardized
test subjects. My concern is that those who teach the arts, will in the long run, be largely considered as second class by other teachers and will be the target of elimination by many school boards. Remember that the vast majority of arts students perform above their non arts classmates.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis on March 10, 2011, 12:12:27 AM
What about those who teach classes that emphasize the arts (band, choir, orchestra, industrial)? They should have the same incentives that the teachers that teach the standardized
test subjects. My concern is that those who teach the arts, will in the long run, be largely considered as second class by other teachers and will be the target of elimination by many school boards.

We are certainly trying to work on something to rectify this and provide more incentives for teachers of subjects outside the core.

Quote
Remember that the vast majority of arts students perform above their non arts classmates. 


I'm not sure what you mean by this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on March 14, 2011, 03:53:22 PM
I have really had a great experience in our Assembly, and I would like to thank Inks, Swedish Cheese, Afleicht, Ogis, Gov. A-Bob and GM Badger for their fine work here during my time.
It seems that just as things were starting to get very much interesting around here again, I have been elected to the Senate.  I hope to continue to be able to do everything I can to help our region in a nonofficial capacity.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis on March 14, 2011, 11:05:55 PM
I have really had a great experience in our Assembly, and I would like to thank Inks, Swedish Cheese, Afleicht, Ogis, Gov. A-Bob and GM Badger for their fine work here during my time.
It seems that just as things were starting to get very much interesting around here again, I have been elected to the Senate.  I hope to continue to be able to do everything I can to help our region in a nonofficial capacity.

It was fantastic to work with you, and I wish you the best of luck in federal politics. :D Feel free to drop in and provide your input when you find time in your busy schedule. :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 16, 2011, 11:43:22 PM
The following is introduced:

Quote
Second Amendment to The Mideast Consolidated Elections Statute

Section 2.2 of The Mideast Elections Consolidation Statute shall be amended to read:

2. If two or more candidates are tied in the proper votes needed for election, the following procedure shall be used:
 a. If the race shall be for the office of Governor, a run-off election shall be held.
 b. If the race shall be for Assembly candidates with the greatest number of highest first, second, third, and/or fourth preference votes, the two candidates who received the same number of votes, and that has not already been elected, shall both be elected.  To fill any seats that may remain open, the votes shall be counted based on the preference value from the last round of counting plus one.
c. If the race shall be for Assembly candidates with the greatest number of highest first, second, third, fourth, and fifth preference votes, and that has not already been elected, a run-off election shall be held.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis on March 18, 2011, 03:10:05 AM
Vote Deletion Act


1. Deleting one's vote from a regional voting booth after the twenty minute grace period is hereby illegal.
    a. Violators may be punished with no more than a six (6)-month ban on regional voting, a one-year ban on holding an office in the Mideast Assembly or Governorship, and two years probation.
        i. The Mideast Assembly shall open a thread and debate the innocence and/or specific punishment for the accused.
        ii. If the accused is a Mideast Assemblyman, he or she is not permitted to vote in the thread. 
    b. If a Mideastern citizen is found guilty of the said crime again during the probationary period decided by the Mideast Assembly, he or she is to receive a lifetime ban from citizenship in the Mideast.
    c. If a Mideastern election official is found guilty of said crime by the Assembly, he or she is expelled from office, in addition to the aforementioned penalties, and the vacancy is filled in accordance to law.
    d. The application of this statute is limited to ninety (90) days after the election in question.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 25, 2011, 02:30:50 AM
This session is now adjourned.  The next session will begin at noon today.  Remember to swear in some time after noon (EST).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on March 25, 2011, 12:08:39 PM
Hey All:

I think its about time you all decide what you want to do with the regional budget. See linked post below.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2853123#msg2853123

As noted, I'm flexable on the 4/18/11 date, just please advise ASAP if there is a consensus for another deadline date. Otherwise I'll assume you're all cool with the 4/18 date and you can rely on stopgap funding measures if there's no agreement by then.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on March 26, 2011, 04:04:25 PM
New Assembly, please swear in so we can elect a Speaker for the new assembly and get the ball rolling again.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 26, 2011, 04:27:56 PM
The new session of the Assembly has begun.  As Dean of the Assembly, I will accept nominations for Speaker of the Assembly.

Ogis, Afleitch, and Swedish Cheese still have to sign in.  Nominations will close 24 hours after the last member has sworn in.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis on March 26, 2011, 10:20:42 PM
Present, and I nominate Inks.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on March 27, 2011, 08:10:45 AM
Present. If need be (I'm not completely sure how this works) I'll second Inks.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 28, 2011, 08:48:12 PM
Having received no other nominations, if there are no objections, I ask for unanimous consent that I am elected Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on March 29, 2011, 11:29:26 AM
Aye.

As long as I get chicken in the canteen every Friday.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on March 29, 2011, 09:01:23 PM
Aye.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 30, 2011, 12:19:34 AM
Hearing no objection, Inks.LWC is duly elected Speaker of the Assembly.



Now, anybody who wants to propose legislation, please do so.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis on March 30, 2011, 12:48:22 AM
Vote Deletion Act

1. Deleting one's vote from a regional voting booth after the twenty minute grace period is hereby illegal.
    a. Violators may be punished with no more than a six (6)-month ban on regional voting and a one-year ban on holding an office in the Mideast Assembly or Governorship.
    b. If a Mideastern election official is found guilty of said crime by the Assembly, he or she is expelled from office, in addition to the aforementioned penalties, and the vacancy is filled in accordance to law.
    c. Charges or a lawsuit under this statute must be filed within one week of the certification of the election in question.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on March 30, 2011, 12:51:37 PM
May I urge the Assembly to focus on the budget since a deadline is coming up? I would appreciate our focus to be on this for the beginning of the Assembly opposed to regulation bills considering we've already passed a few.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 10, 2011, 03:39:33 PM
Here's my proposed official budget. Though we don't have law requiring this, I do hope that the final product on my desk is a balanced budget.

Total Budget: $310.61 billion
Spending ($229.41 billion)

Energy ($5.85  billion)
$3 Billion ...... Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so.
$1 Billion  ...... Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion  ...... Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$0.5 Billion  ...... Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$0.25 Billion  ...... Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy)

Natural resources and environment ($5.21 billion)
$2.61 billion ...... Water resources (No Change)
$0.57 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change)
$0.5 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change)

Agriculture ($4.04 billion)
$2.95 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$1.09 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change)

Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($1.95 billion)
$0.34 billion ..... Housing Loan Programs (No Change)
$0.02 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$1.36 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change)
$0.23 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change)

Transportation ($23.25 billion)
$9.00 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$4.00 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.25 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$1.05 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.45 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)
$6.45 billion ..... Non-Highway Roads (No Change)
Community and regional development ($4.39 billion)
$2.50 billion ...... Community development (No Change)
$0.96 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change)
$0.93 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education ($68.00 billion)
$40.00 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$20.00 billion ..... Higher education (No Change)
$8.00 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change)

Training, labor and unemployment ($9.37 billion)
$4.34 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change)
$0.2 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change)
$4.83 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Health Spending ($12.00 billion)
$1.15 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change)
$0.70 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change)
$8.45 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change)
$0.20 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change)

Civilian Retirement ($41.50 billion)
$1.0 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change)
$29.50 billion ..... Mideast employee retirement and disability (No Change)
$11.00 billion ...... Mideast employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)

Aid to Low-Income Families ($25.00 billion)
$6.01 billion ..... Housing assistance (No Change)
$4.33 billion ..... Food stamps (No Change)
$2.3 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches) (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Family support payments (TANF) (No Change)
$7.01 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$0.85 billion ..... Child tax credit (No Change)
$0.99 billion ....... Child care funds (No Change)
$0.18 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families (No Change)

General Family Support ($5.39 billion)
$1.32 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance (No Change)
$0.33 billion ...... Child support and family support programs (No Change)
$3.74 billion ..... Social and family services (No Change)

Administration of justice ($20.45 billion)
$11.35 billion ..... Regional law enforcement and security (No Change)
$5.21 billion ..... Regional litigation and judicial activities (No Change)
$2.89 billion ...... Regional prison system (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change)

General government administration ($3.01 billion)
$0.31 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change)
$0.10 billion ...... Executive office programs (No Change)
$2.05 billion ....... Fiscal operations (No Change)
$0.55 billion ...... Other general government (No Change)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax Expenditures and Tax Cuts ($81.20 billion)

Corporate Tax Breaks ($11.03 billion)
$7.00 billion ...... R&D Tax Breaks (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Energy, Mining and Timber Tax Breaks (No Change)
$2.03 billion ...... Tax Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.99 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change)

Personal Business & Investment Benefits ($5.09 billion)
$3.80 billion ..... Tax-Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Enterprise & Empowerment Zones and New Markets credit (No Change)
$0.33 billion ....... Other personal investment tax breaks (No Change)

Pension & Retirement Deductions ($26.08 billion)
$10.05 billion ..... Employer-paid Pensions (No Change)
$7.05 billion ..... 401Ks & Keogh plans (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... IRAs (No Change)
$6.62 billion ..... Group and personal life insurance benefits (No Change)
$0.86 billion ...... Other retirement benefits (No Change)

Health Insurance Tax Benefits ($12.64 billion)
$9.80 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... Self-employed medical insurance premiums (No Change)
$1.70 billion ...... Medical Savings/Health Savings Accounts (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Deductibility of medical expenses (No Change)

Housing tax benefits ($12.67 billion)
$5.50 billion ..... Mortgage Interest (No Change)
$3.01 billion ..... Deductibility of property taxes on homes (No Change)
$3.51 billion ..... Exclusion of net imputed rental income on owner-occupied homes (No Change)
$0.91 billion ...... Housing bonds & low-income housing investments (No Change)

Other individual deductions and exemptions ($14.43 billion)
$3.62 billion ..... Charitable contributions (No Change)
$1.91 billion ..... Local taxes (w/o home property) (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Workmen's compensation (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Education deductions and credits (No Change)
$1.31 billion ..... Child credit (No Change)
$1.38 billion ...... Child care credits and deductions (No Change)
$0.46 billion ......... Deduction for the blind and elderly (No Change)
$0.41 billion ...... Employee parking and transit expenses (No Change)
$0.35 billion ...... Adoption and foster care tax credits (No Change)
$0.80 billion ...... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)- revenue loss component (No Change)
$0.30 billion ...... Other fringe benefits (No Change)
----------

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000
1%    $13,001 - $40,000
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000
2%    $100,001 - $180,000
2.5%    $180,001 - $300,000
3.20%    $300,001 - $750,000
4%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
5%    $2,750,001- $9,999,999
6.5%   $10,000,000+

Corporate Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $50,000
0.5%    $50,001 - $75,000
1%    $75,001 - $125,000
1.5%    $125,001 - $350,000
2%    $350,001 - $1,000,000
2.5%    $1,000,001 - $10,000,000
3.25%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

Sales Tax Rate: 5.7% (Groceries, prescription drugs exempt)

Excise Taxes:

Gas: 1.5 cents/gallon (2 cents/gallon for diesel).

Cigarettes: $1.60 per pack.
Other Tobacco Products: 55% Manufactures Price
Distilled Spirits: $2.70 per gallon
Wine: $0.30 per gallon
Beer: $0.20 per gallon


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on April 11, 2011, 07:22:23 AM
Charities Regulation Commission
1. The government of the Mideast, in order to protect the concessions and entitlements offered in law to charitable organsations and seeking to ensure the integrity of these entitlement does establish The Mideast Charities Regulation Commission.

2a. No organisation can be registered as a charity if it has only one member.
b. No organisation can be registered as a charity if it supports any ideals or espouses any view that conflicts with the Constitution of the Mideast Region or the Constitution of Atlasia.
c. No church or religious congregation can be registered as charity.

3a. i. Any charity under investigation by regional or federal investigation will have it's charitable status suspended pending the outcome of the investigation.
ii. If found to be in violation of the law any such charity will have it's status revoked.

b. All charities will be required to be re-assesed by the Commission every four years.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on April 11, 2011, 07:27:16 PM
Does total budget mean how much we have, or how much money is in the budget? Because if it's the second one, then there doesn't seem to be a difference between "Budget" and "Spending".


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 11, 2011, 10:34:22 PM
Does total budget mean how much we have, or how much money is in the budget? Because if it's the second one, then there doesn't seem to be a difference between "Budget" and "Spending".

total budget includes the tax cuts and credits I have included with the spending


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on April 17, 2011, 03:54:06 PM
Monkey on a Type-Writer Bill

Section 1: The Mideast Region buys a monkey
Section 2: The monkey is given a typewriter
Section 3: Whatever the monkey types is put to the Mideast Assembly to vote on


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on April 17, 2011, 04:07:36 PM
Amendment to The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.

2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.

4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.

5a. Compensation shall be paid for by a 1% sales tax increase on gun purchases.
b. The Mideast will appropriate a further $50 million to the running of the scheme.

6. Compensation shall only be payable if the alleged assailant is found guilty of the crime in a court of law.

----

What was deleted has been struck out. What has been added has been included in bold. Medical care is deleted due to universal healthcare coverage. 5b has been added to fund the Act as the revenue from the sales tax increase is very low.

For the record, the scheme that operates in the UK (who I work for ;D - now you know what I do :P) costs £200 million a year to run. The Mideast scheme is less extensive so should cost less to manage.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on April 19, 2011, 03:15:36 PM
Amendment to The Mideast Victim Compensation Act

1. Any person victim of a crime committed in the Mideast shall be compensated by the regional Government under the conditions set forth by this Act.

2. Victims will be compensated for:
     a. Loss of life of a member of the immediate family.
     b. Approved medical treatment/rehabilitation for a period not exceeding two years from the beginning of treatment.
     c. Loss of material possessions, the value of which shall be evaluated by the victim's insurance provider or, if none is provided, an independent insurance company employed by the region.
3. No person shall be reimbursed by the region if there exists a plausible alternative method to receive compensation for the crime.

4. Compensation shall be determined by an independent council of three justices, who shall judge the nature of the crime, whether all other plausible alternatives have been attempted and what amount shall be paid to the victim. This amount shall be calculated as the amount determined less amounts already received through alternative means.

5a. Compensation shall be paid for by a 1% sales tax increase on gun purchases.
b. The Mideast will appropriate a further $50 million to the running of the scheme.

6. Compensation shall only be payable if the alleged assailant is found guilty of the crime in a court of law.

----

What was deleted has been struck out. What has been added has been included in bold. Medical care is deleted due to universal healthcare coverage. 5b has been added to fund the Act as the revenue from the sales tax increase is very low.

For the record, the scheme that operates in the UK (who I work for ;D - now you know what I do :P) costs £200 million a year to run. The Mideast scheme is less extensive so should cost less to manage.

So a crime victim hasn't been victimized if a jury finds mere reasonable doubt as to exactly who did it? Even with the full cooperation of the victim? A person crippled for life by an armed mugger isn't covered under this act because the mugger wasn't caught??

BOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! >:(


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on April 19, 2011, 06:43:07 PM
Currently, I find myself siding with Badger on the last part brought up.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on April 20, 2011, 06:45:43 AM
So a crime victim hasn't been victimized if a jury finds mere reasonable doubt as to exactly who did it? Even with the full cooperation of the victim? A person crippled for life by an armed mugger isn't covered under this act because the mugger wasn't caught??

BOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! >:(

I had actually put that in there for our more conservative friends :D Turns out I didn't need to. I'm happy for it to be amended close to what I'm familiar with in my work; i.e the crime has to be reported to the police and full co-operation has to be given to the police in their enquiries.

Therefore 6 can read;

Compensation shall only be payable if the crime has been reported to the police and the applicant has fully co-operated with the police and other civil authorities.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on April 20, 2011, 09:31:40 AM
So a crime victim hasn't been victimized if a jury finds mere reasonable doubt as to exactly who did it? Even with the full cooperation of the victim? A person crippled for life by an armed mugger isn't covered under this act because the mugger wasn't caught??

BOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! >:(

I had actually put that in there for our more conservative friends :D Turns out I didn't need to. I'm happy for it to be amended close to what I'm familiar with in my work; i.e the crime has to be reported to the police and full co-operation has to be given to the police in their enquiries.

Therefore 6 can read;

Compensation shall only be payable if the crime has been reported to the police and the applicant has fully co-operated with the police and other civil authorities.


YAAAAAAY!! :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 10, 2011, 10:32:08 PM
Establishment of a Regional Guard
Whereas there is a need for a unit of militia in times of natural disaster, civil unrest, and war to protect the Mideast Region, a Regional Guard is hereby established.  Entrance into the Regional Guard shall be voluntary.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 31, 2011, 04:14:23 AM
This session of the Assembly is now in session.  We will now be taking nominations for Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on May 31, 2011, 04:56:58 AM
I proudly nominate Inks.LWC for Speaker of our Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on May 31, 2011, 05:01:09 AM
Seconded.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on May 31, 2011, 07:39:12 PM
If thirding is needed, then thirded.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on June 01, 2011, 11:29:22 AM
Water Infrastructure Works Bill.

Preamble. The Mideast Assembly recognises the need for the provision of water and waste transportation and storage, the need to upgrade these facilities particular in older industrial cities due to the age of many sewerage systems and the need to make all systems more environmentally friendly.

Section 1. Therefore the Assembly agrees to fund a programme including, but not limited to:
a. The replacement or upgrade of water processing, treatment and purification plants.
b. The replacement or upgrade of underground sewerage and water transportation pipes/ducts.
c. The replacement or upgrade of monitoring stations.

Section 2. These works shall be funded, in full or in part by funds appropriated to the Mideast by Section 2a of the 2010 Federal Stimulus Act.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Yelnoc on June 01, 2011, 11:39:15 AM
I'm glad to see you guys working on this.  For statistics on how much money needs to be invested into what categories, see this website (http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/).



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on June 01, 2011, 10:29:10 PM

Fourthed. I guess we can just name Inks speaker since he already has majority support.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on June 06, 2011, 02:40:59 AM
Inks.LWC is unanimously elected speaker by acclamation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on June 09, 2011, 11:05:56 AM
Grown Produce Public Health Bill

1. No grown produce including but not limited to; fruits, vegetables, cereals, grains, legumes and tubers can be commercially sold unless they have been subject to effective and legal natural or artificial pesticide, including but not limited to; biological agents, antimicrobial agents, disinfectants or other pest control methods.

2. Grown produce may only be labelled ‘organic’ provided they subject to the use of natural pesticides.

3. This bill does not extend to produce where there is scientific concensus that no pesticide treatment is required.

4. This bill does not extend to produce grown for private consumption.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on June 13, 2011, 10:20:39 AM
The Dangerous Dogs Bill

The Mideast Dog Breed Equity Under the Law Act  is hereby repealed

1. The following breeds of dog are banned in the Mideast

a. any dog of the type known as the pit bull terrier;

b. any dog of the type known as the Japanese tosa; and

c. any dog of any type designated for the purposes of this section by an order of the Assembly being a type appearing to them to be bred for fighting or to have the characteristics of a type bred for that purpose.

2. No person shall

a. breed, or breed from, a dog to which this section applies;

b. sell or exchange such a dog or offer, advertise or expose such a dog for sale or exchange;

c. make or offer to make a gift of such a dog or advertise or expose such a dog as a gift;

d. allow such a dog of which he is the owner or of which he is for the time being in charge to be in a public place without being muzzled and kept on a lead; or

e. abandon such a dog of which he is the owner or, being the owner or for the time being in charge of such a dog, allow it to stray.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 25, 2011, 10:10:09 PM
Hey Guys,

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=135375.0


This is a great idea the Northeast implemented, and I think it'd be cool to do the same in the Mideast. I'd be more than willing to run it, unless someone else feels called to.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Mopsus on June 25, 2011, 10:16:41 PM
Hey Guys,

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=135375.0


This is a great idea the Northeast implemented, and I think it'd be cool to do the same in the Mideast. I'd be more than willing to run it, unless someone else feels called to.
That was actually the first act I intended on introducing, in the event that I would be so fortunate as to serve in the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on June 30, 2011, 06:32:21 PM
Sigh...

I'll propose more legislation then shall I?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on June 30, 2011, 09:28:20 PM
Sigh...

I'll propose more legislation then shall I?

We're looking forward to whatever you have to propose.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 30, 2011, 09:30:08 PM
Sigh...

I'll propose more legislation then shall I?

If you'd like I can re introduce my teacher salary bill which I'm sure will have lots of debate and amendents.

I'm also beginning work on public employee pension reform considering we have to pay $50 billion a year while the IDS to paying under $4 billion


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on July 01, 2011, 05:27:24 AM
Sorry not to contribute much here.
You all know in which circumstances some of us were candidates...

I think it's time to slash the size of the Assembly :P.
If one important veteran politician of our great region ;D provides me with all the texts needed to be amended, I'll put forward a bill :).

(yeah, lazy even about that...)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on July 01, 2011, 10:54:09 AM
Mideast Assembly Public Holiday Bill

The Mideast Assembly shall be in recess during the following periods;

The Easter Friday and Easter Monday (moveable)
The 4th July
The 24th, 25th, 26th and 31st December
The 1st January


Transgender Rights Bill

All Mideastern statutes and regulations which prohibit discrimination or disparate treatment under the law on the basis of, or guarantee legal rights or privileges regardless of, a subject's race, national origin, religion, gender, and sexual orientation shall henceforth be amended to include "transgender" as a similarly illegal basis under the definition of ''gender'', of discrimination or denial of legal rights.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 01, 2011, 04:08:14 PM
Section 1
Public education teaching payment shall be based on the following:
30% Education acquired by degree, in any area. The greater amount of degrees and the more advanced degree will result in a higher salary.
35% Years spent teaching in public, private, charter schools, or universities. The longer a teacher has spent teaching, the greater their salary.
30% Regional test score results for their students. The higher the regional test scores the students they teach score, the greater their salary.
5% Former occupation related to teaching. For teachers who have had occupations related to their current teaching (like an engineering now teaching math), they will have a greater salary.

Section 2
The starting teacher salary will be $35,000 annually and will between this amount and $65,000 for any other given year based on Section 1’s formula. The teaching salary will be based on a sliding scale

Section 3
Each year there will be an annual test developed by the education department of the Mideast Government for grades 3-10 in the areas of math, writing, reading, science, and social studies. This regional test will be used to determine the 30% of the salary based on regional testing scores for teachers. Teachers who teach Advanced Placement (AP) or International Baccalaureate (IB) will be scored on student’s results if they teach 11th or 12th grade students whom will not take the regional test due to local district requirements. Scores of the regional test will only affect the teacher teaching in their specific area (an English teacher is only scored on Writing and Reading).

Section 4
Teachers who do not teach a subject related to Math, Writing, Reading, Science, and Social Studies, and/or do not teach an AP or IB class, will not be subject to the 30% teaching salary category based on the regional test scores. Teachers who fall into the Section 4 category will only have the ability to achieve a maximum of $60,000 annually for salary.


---
GO wild ripping this apart! But truly in the end I would like to see an education reform bill on my desk :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 02, 2011, 04:18:07 AM
I'll draft one of those "Welcome to the Mideast, here's who's in what position and when the next election is" thingy bills after Sunday - busy weekend at work.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 04, 2011, 02:15:24 AM
Section 1
Public education teaching payment shall be based on the following:
30% Education acquired by degree, in any area. The greater amount of degrees and the more advanced degree will result in a higher salary.
35% Years spent teaching in public, private, charter schools, or universities. The longer a teacher has spent teaching, the greater their salary.
30% Regional test score results for their students. The higher the regional test scores the students they teach score, the greater their salary.
5% Former occupation related to teaching. For teachers who have had occupations related to their current teaching (like an engineering now teaching math), they will have a greater salary.

Section 2
The starting teacher salary will be $35,000 annually and will between this amount and $65,000 for any other given year based on Section 1’s formula. The teaching salary will be based on a sliding scale

Section 3
Each year there will be an annual test developed by the education department of the Mideast Government for grades 3-10 in the areas of math, writing, reading, science, and social studies. This regional test will be used to determine the 30% of the salary based on regional testing scores for teachers. Teachers who teach Advanced Placement (AP) or International Baccalaureate (IB) will be scored on student’s results if they teach 11th or 12th grade students whom will not take the regional test due to local district requirements. Scores of the regional test will only affect the teacher teaching in their specific area (an English teacher is only scored on Writing and Reading).

Section 4
Teachers who do not teach a subject related to Math, Writing, Reading, Science, and Social Studies, and/or do not teach an AP or IB class, will not be subject to the 30% teaching salary category based on the regional test scores. Teachers who fall into the Section 4 category will only have the ability to achieve a maximum of $60,000 annually for salary.


---
GO wild ripping this apart! But truly in the end I would like to see an education reform bill on my desk :D

Is this the final submission?  Or is this a rough draft?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 04, 2011, 02:15:52 AM
Sorry not to contribute much here.
You all know in which circumstances some of us were candidates...

I think it's time to slash the size of the Assembly :P.
If one important veteran politician of our great region ;D provides me with all the texts needed to be amended, I'll put forward a bill :).

(yeah, lazy even about that...)

You want 3 people?  I can draft that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on July 04, 2011, 02:55:56 AM
Except if new active Mideast citizens emerge: it's already the case with MOPolitico.
And I've noticed other promising names.
So, maybe we shouldn't rush on this subject: I know, I sound contradictory, but I was proposing this just because I'm a bit ashamed by my own very, very low activity ;).

Anyway, the last elections were really a failure for our system.
I think, we can have 5 active members now. But we cannot be sure of competitive elections with 5 members. It depends on the aim of all this: trying to have all the active Mideastern Atlasians in the Assembly or trying to have competitive elections.

At least, a draft and a debate would be fine.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 04, 2011, 01:17:41 PM
That's my final submission TO be torn apart and amended in the debate thread :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 05, 2011, 05:13:47 PM
Nomination to the Superior Court

I hereby nominate Big Bad Fab to the Superior Court.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 06, 2011, 02:12:35 AM
An Amendment to Correct an Oversight in Article II, Section 2 of the Mideast Constitution

Quote
The following text shall be removed from Article II, Section 2, Clause 1. of the Constitution: "In the event that 60 hours elapse from the time of a case being filed in the Mideast Superior Court without such action taken by the Governor, said responsibility shall fall exclusively to the Speaker of the Assembly."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on July 06, 2011, 03:24:32 PM
You don't have to forgive me, but when did MOpolitico get in the Assembly? I have a weird feeling that elections took place without my knowing about them. If so, it's probably for the better, but I'd like to know. Incidentally, the Atlas Fantasy Elections Voting Booth doesn't seem to have a thread on any sort of Assembly elections, so that just deepens the mystery. Is it because big bad fab is moving up to the Superior Court?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Cincinnatus on July 06, 2011, 03:30:53 PM
I'm not a citizen here but..

 A-Bob appoints MO (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=131284.msg2945977#msg2945977)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 06, 2011, 03:32:52 PM
You don't have to forgive me, but when did MOpolitico get in the Assembly? I have a weird feeling that elections took place without my knowing about them. If so, it's probably for the better, but I'd like to know. Incidentally, the Atlas Fantasy Elections Voting Booth doesn't seem to have a thread on any sort of Assembly elections, so that just deepens the mystery. Is it because big bad fab is moving up to the Superior Court?

Tmth didn't take his Senate seat, Officepark took his seat, MO took Officepark's seat, BBF is up for a nomination to the Superior Court in which there will be another vacancy.

There isn't any mystery here for what's been going on the last two weeks. How is it for the better that as an Assemblyman you don't know elections are being held?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on July 06, 2011, 03:37:01 PM
I'm not a citizen here but..

 A-Bob appoints MO (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=131284.msg2945977#msg2945977)

It's fine, around here, we appreciate it when others offer help, not shun them for it. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on July 06, 2011, 03:56:58 PM
I knew about the Presidential and Senate elections, but I didn't hear about Tmth not taking his seat & what followed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on July 08, 2011, 07:35:08 AM
Establishment of the Mideast Index of Multiple Deprivation.

1a. In order to assist Mideast government agencies measure relative poverty in the region and appropriate resources efficiently, the Mideast Index of Multiple Deprivation is hereby established. This shall be colloquially known as the MIMD.

b. The Mideast Index of Multiple Deprivation (MIMD) identifies small area concentrations of multiple deprivation across the Mideast. It allows effective targeting of policies and funding where the aim is to wholly or partly tackle or take account of area concentrations of multiple deprivation.
2a.The MIMD will measure deprivation based on the following factors; income, employment, health, education, skills and training, housing, geographic access and crime.. These are combined to create an overall index.

2b.The MIMD is based on the methodology developed by the Social Disadvantage Research Centre at the University of Oxford

----

Based on this: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/SIMD/


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Mopsus on July 08, 2011, 02:03:58 PM
Notification of Leave of Absence: I will not have access to the internet until Sunday. Try to make some progress while I'm gone, okay ;)?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on July 14, 2011, 02:38:54 PM
An Amendment to reduce the size of the Mideast Assembly

Section 1 of the third Article of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read as follows:

1. The legislative power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Mideast Assembly.
2. The Assembly shall be composed of three members, each of whom shall be registered voters residing in the Mideast Region.
3. The Assembly shall have the power to choose its own officers, including a Speaker, and judge the qualifications of its members.
4. Elections to the Assembly shall begin between 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the third Thursday of January, March, May, July, September and November and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
5. The method of election shall be PR-STV, as specified in Sections 4 to 17 of the Atlasian Proportional Representation Act (F.L. 21-2), unless the Assembly shall provide otherwise by Law.
6. Vacancies in the Assembly shall be filled in a manner specified by Law, and until such determination is made, by Gubernatorial appointment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Mopsus on July 19, 2011, 11:56:30 AM
Quote from: Amendment to the Mideast Abortion Statute II
The Mideast Abortion Statue II shall be amended to read:
1: No abortions shall be permitted after the twenty-fourth week of a pregnancy except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest.
2: No female under the age of 18 years old shall be permitted to have an abortion without a parent/guardian consent.
3: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall have any existing license from the Mideast Region or a subdivision thereof to practice a medical profession revoked for up to five years.
4: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall be sentenced to up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000. Any person knowingly facilitating the inducement of a prohibited abortion shall be subject to a criminal fine of up to $100,000 and/or six months in prison.
5: The Mideast Abortion Statute is hereby repealed.

I introduce this bill in response to the case of a woman dying from in illegal abortion in Richmond, Virginia, posted by GM Marokai in the Atlasia Guardian-Informer (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=137995.15).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on July 19, 2011, 06:43:55 PM
Seeing my stuff responded to is awesome! Thanks MOPolitico! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Mopsus on July 19, 2011, 07:44:27 PM
Seeing my stuff responded to is awesome! Thanks MOPolitico! :)
Thanks for giving me something to respond to :)!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 20, 2011, 04:10:12 PM
Heads up if you want something signed into law get it passed ASAP because Friday I'm gone and won't be back in time for the next session.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 20, 2011, 05:45:11 PM
Heads up if you want something signed into law get it passed ASAP because Friday I'm gone and won't be back in time for the next session.

Anything unsigned automatically becomes law.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Mopsus on July 20, 2011, 05:48:24 PM
Quote from: The Mideast Vital Civic Information Act
1. The Government of the Mideast shall maintain a record at all times of the names of current members of the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial Branches of the Government, and the dates of any forthcoming general or special elections and any other information which the government sees fit to make its citizens aware of.

2. The information to be made public by this Act shall be published within three days of the passage of this Act.

3. Any future changes to the above information must be made within three days of an event necessitating a change.

4. Any member of the Executive, Legislative, or Judicial Branches may make any necessary changes to the above information.

5. The above information shall be made public through at least one of the following media:
a. A new thread in the Regional Governments subforum of the Atlas Fantasy Government Forum; or
b. The appropriate pages in the Atlasia Wiki.

6. If any inappropriate information, such as any egregious self-promotional, offensive or irrelevant text is made public through the media specified in 5 a or b, the Superior Court is hereby authorized to remove it, at its discretion, upon the recommendation of any Mideast Citizen.
Shamelessly stolen from homelycooking :P.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 20, 2011, 05:49:16 PM
Heads up if you want something signed into law get it passed ASAP because Friday I'm gone and won't be back in time for the next session.

Anything unsigned automatically becomes law.

We don't have the pocket veto option at the end of a session though?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 21, 2011, 03:01:50 PM
Heads up if you want something signed into law get it passed ASAP because Friday I'm gone and won't be back in time for the next session.

Anything unsigned automatically becomes law.

We don't have the pocket veto option at the end of a session though?

No.  After 7 days, it simply becomes law.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on July 23, 2011, 07:36:01 AM
Mideast Anti Marijuana Bill

The Mideast Marijuana Legalization Statute and the Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act are hereby repealed.

1. The possession, sale, and consumption of marijuana shall generally be unlawful for all individuals in the Mideast.

2. a) Medical marijuana use is legal for individuals of at least 18 years of age under clearly defined conditions, i.e. only in cases of HIV/AIDS, cancer, glaucoma, multiple sclerosis and epileptic seizures.

b) Individuals who suffer from any of these health problems are entitled to receive a specific amount of marijuana which a certified physician in the Mideast region deems necessary for the medical treatment directly from the physician in question.

c) Any physician who intends to treat a patient with marijuana must request written permission from the Mideast Department of Health in every single medical case and is, upon receiving such permission, entitled to possess a small amount of marijuana to treat his/her patient.

d) The Mideast Department of Health is required to respond to a request for a written permission by a physician within 2 weeks.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Mopsus on July 23, 2011, 09:44:20 AM
Notification of Leave of Absence: I won't have access to the internet again until Monday.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on July 29, 2011, 08:58:58 AM
Gentlemen; it's been a pleasure :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on July 29, 2011, 10:41:50 AM
Gentlemen; it's been a pleasure :)

Thanks for the hard work you put in the Assembly! :)
... and don't veto too many bills as Governor, please. :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 30, 2011, 12:01:54 AM
Gentlemen; it's been a pleasure :)

bye bye for a very short time


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on July 31, 2011, 03:14:18 PM
Can we get the Speaker elections underway?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: TJ in Oregon on July 31, 2011, 10:13:46 PM
I will assume the governor's post means we are now in session.

Despite being the new guy around here, I'd like to get the ball rolling and nominate Assembleyman Inks.LWC for re-election as our speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on July 31, 2011, 11:34:29 PM
If seconding is needed, then seconded.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on July 31, 2011, 11:35:56 PM
Not quite sure how to do this, but this seems the thread for proposing legislation. If it is so, then here is my first piece of legislation:
Quote
All Dave’s Children Act

Section 1: The Mid East Foster Family and Adoption Agency shall be created.  Its tasks include but are not limited to: the recruiting, training, and certifying of foster and adoptive families; family and individual counseling; training potential foster/adopted children to see signs of abuse by foster/adoptive parents and to know to report to local authorities; and working with Regional orphanages and other adoption agencies to place children in responsible foster and/or adoptive care.

Section 2: All state-run orphanages shall, upon yearly review by an official representative of the Mid East government, each receive $4,000 per child in each individual orphanage’s care.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 01, 2011, 04:06:12 AM
Any other nominations for speaker?  If not, I ask unanimous consent to close nominations and elect Inks.LWC as Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on August 01, 2011, 06:34:56 AM

Nope, let's elect Inks for Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: TJ in Oregon on August 01, 2011, 11:46:51 AM
Here’s my first attempt at a bill. I read in this thread that there was some discussion of defining a “charity” so I figured I’d give it a try. This is largely based on the US federal government, but allows religious charities to receive funding without losing their ability to control standards and hiring practices.  I included an exception to the Mideast Adoption Statute and would recommend completely retooling that since the only issue it even mentions is same-sex adoption.

Quote
Mideast Not-For-Profit Group Designation

Section 1. Terminology
a.   The designation of “Not-For-Profit Organization” (NFP) shall be defined as any non-governmental organization which does not seek to make a profit. Direct ownership or public and/or private investorship of an NFP is hereby forbidden.
b.   The designation of ‘Not-For-Profit Charitable Organization” (NFP-CO) shall be defined as any NFP whose primary mission is the betterment of society. This includes but is not limited to service to the poor or those with special needs, providing food, education, healthcare, or the betterment of well-being of those marginalized from society.
c.   The designation of “Not-For-Profit Religious Organization” (NFP-RO) shall be defined as any NFP with a mission of religious practice or religious affiliation. An organization or part of an organization may be simultaneously defined as an NFP-RO and an NFP-CO.

Section 2. Rights and Regulations of NFP Organizations
a.   An NFP is exempt from all Mideast income and corporate taxes. However, employees of an NFP must still pay payroll taxes and the NFP must pay sales taxes when those taxes apply.
b.   An NFP may not serve primarily as a political action committee (PAC) and may neither endorse nor campaign on behalf of a particular candidate or political party. An NFP may engage in issue advocacy.

Section 3. Rights and Regulations of NFP-COs
a.   Donations to an NFP-CO are tax-deductible.
b.   Any NFP-CO which performs abortions outside of a grave health risk to the mother may not receive government funding and status as an NFP-CO is suspended as specified in Section 5. However, the organization in question may retain its general NFP status.
c.   An NFP-CO is subject to all rights and restrictions specified in Section 2.

Section 4. Rights and Regulations of NFP-ROs
a.   Donations to an NFP-RO are tax-deductible.
b.   An NFP-RO may receive government funding only to provide services consistent with a charitable mission described in Section 1b and funds provided by the government may only be used by an organization or part of an organization designated as both an NFP-RO and an NFP-CO. Funds may not be used for religious practice, religious education, or evangelization. Clause VI of the Mideast Officialization of the Separation of Religion and State Statute is hereby repealed.
c.   An NFP-RO acting as an NFP-CO may follow its own religious standards in carrying out its charitable mission, including in hiring practices. The Mideast Adoption Statute is modified by appending: “3. Any adoption agency designated as both an NFP-RO and NFP-CO is exempt from Clauses 1 and 2 in accordance with Mideast Not-For-Profit Group Statue Section 4c.”
d.   An NFP-RO is subject to all rights and restrictions specified in Section 2.

Section 5. Violations to Statute
a.   Any NFP found guilty of violations of Section 1a or 2 shall immediately have its NFP status revoked for a minimum of 60 days and may only be reestablished upon agreement to future compliance of statute.
b.   Any NFP-CO found guilty of violations of Section 1b or 3 shall immediately have its NFP-CO status, but not its general NFP status if Section 1a and 2 are not violated, revoked for a minimum of 60 days and may only be reestablished upon agreement to future compliance of statute.
c.   Any NFP-RO found guilty of violations of Section 1c or 4 shall immediately have its NFP-RO status, but not its general NFP status if Section 1a and 2 are not violated, revoked for a minimum of 60 days and may only be reestablished upon agreement to future compliance of statute.
d.   Fines and/or imprisonment may imposed upon individuals in violation of this statute.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on August 01, 2011, 04:01:39 PM
Vote Sanctity Act

A voter who edits his ballot any length of time after it has been posted in the voting booth thread for any Mideast Election nullifies it. Election authorities shall not count a ballot altered in the above manner.



This bill comes from the Northeast, I've just adapted it to fit our region. It is an idea that I think we should really discuss.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 01, 2011, 07:25:17 PM
I finished updating the wiki for this session and noticed 3 bills introduced in the 18th Assembly were never open to debate.

A.R. 11: Amendment to the Mideast Abortion Statute II (Not Debated) -MOPolitico
A.R. 12: The Mideast Vital Civic Information Act (Not Debated) -MOPolitico
A.R. 13: Mideast Anti Marijuana Bill (Not Debated) -ZuWo

I highly recommend the Assemblymember reintroduce their legislation.

To view all legislation for the 16th, 17th, and 18th sessions click here https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Statute#Legislation_Considered_in_the_18th_Assembly:

I have included failed bills, bills not voted on, and tabled bills which most Governors before me have not. So there's all your information.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on August 02, 2011, 04:06:37 AM
I thought we would start debating the bills which we haven't had time to debate during the last session in this session, but if it's necessary to introduce these bills once again I will do so. (Maybe we can discuss the two bills by Assemblyman MOPolitico first because he introduced them earlier.)

Mideast Anti Marijuana Bill

The Mideast Marijuana Legalization Statute and the Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act are hereby repealed.

1. The possession, sale, and consumption of marijuana shall generally be unlawful for all individuals in the Mideast.

2. a) Medical marijuana use is legal for individuals of at least 18 years of age under clearly defined conditions, i.e. only in cases of HIV/AIDS, cancer, glaucoma, multiple sclerosis and epileptic seizures.

b) Individuals who suffer from any of these health problems are entitled to receive a specific amount of marijuana which a certified physician in the Mideast region deems necessary for the medical treatment directly from the physician in question.

c) Any physician who intends to treat a patient with marijuana must request written permission from the Mideast Department of Health in every single medical case and is, upon receiving such permission, entitled to possess a small amount of marijuana to treat his/her patient.

d) The Mideast Department of Health is required to respond to a request for a written permission by a physician within 2 weeks.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 02, 2011, 11:22:49 AM
The benefit of our regional government system is that we can debate all these bills at the same time, so even though we'll have 5 right now, we can take them all on at once.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 02, 2011, 06:53:57 PM
Without objection, so ordered.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Mopsus on August 03, 2011, 12:38:56 PM
What about my bills, Speaker?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on August 03, 2011, 04:06:00 PM
Here’s my first attempt at a bill. I read in this thread that there was some discussion of defining a “charity” so I figured I’d give it a try. This is largely based on the US federal government, but allows religious charities to receive funding without losing their ability to control standards and hiring practices.  I included an exception to the Mideast Adoption Statute and would recommend completely retooling that since the only issue it even mentions is same-sex adoption.

So in order to confer on religious organisations charitable status, you are happy to amend previous bills to roll back the rights of LGBT citizens when it comes to adoption and employment legislation?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: TJ in Oregon on August 03, 2011, 06:22:05 PM
This bill does not outlaw adoption by LGBT citizens in the Mideast, it simply allows religiously affiliated agencies the ability to act in accordance with their own beliefs. In RL only 50% of US adoption agencies are privately run and presumably less than that in Altasia since the Mideast Adoption Statute forces religious organizations to choose between following their beliefs and serving children and families. Presumably not all private agencies are religiously affiliated not all that are would forbid adoption by LGBT citizens. In practice, adoption agencies discriminate by a wide array of characteristics, including race, marital status, wealth, and religion. For some reason, none of this is regulated at all, agencies are not even certified by anyone, but for some reason universal adherance to same-sex adoption is mandated. This bill would not change that; it simply grants a religious exception. Government agencies (and many private ones) would still practice same-sex adoption.

As for employment, this would simply allow religious organizations greater control over who they hire. It does not seem unreasonable to me for religious organizations to set their own standards in hiring practices, even requiring their employees to be members of that religion if they so choose. LGBT issues should be no exception to this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 04, 2011, 02:33:26 AM
Let's keep debate and discussion on the bills in their respective threads.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Mopsus on August 06, 2011, 06:40:35 PM
Quote from: Amendment to the Mideast Abortion Statute II
The Mideast Abortion Statue II shall be amended to read:
1: No abortions shall be permitted after the twenty-fourth week of a pregnancy except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest.
2: No female under the age of 18 years old shall be permitted to have an abortion without a parent/guardian consent.
3: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall have any existing license from the Mideast Region or a subdivision thereof to practice a medical profession revoked for up to five years.
4: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall be sentenced to up to one year in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000. Any person knowingly facilitating the inducement of a prohibited abortion shall be subject to a criminal fine of up to $100,000 and/or six months in prison.
5: The Mideast Abortion Statute is hereby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Mopsus on August 06, 2011, 06:42:32 PM
Quote from: The Mideast Vital Civic Information Act
1. The Government of the Mideast shall maintain a record at all times of the names of current members of the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial Branches of the Government, and the dates of any forthcoming general or special elections and any other information which the government sees fit to make its citizens aware of.

2. The information to be made public by this Act shall be published within three days of the passage of this Act.

3. Any future changes to the above information must be made within three days of an event necessitating a change.

4. Any member of the Executive, Legislative, or Judicial Branches may make any necessary changes to the above information.

5. The above information shall be made public through at least one of the following media:
a. A new thread in the Regional Governments subforum of the Atlas Fantasy Government Forum; or
b. The appropriate pages in the Atlasia Wiki.

6. If any inappropriate information, such as any egregious self-promotional, offensive or irrelevant text is made public through the media specified in 5 a or b, the Superior Court is hereby authorized to remove it, at its discretion, upon the recommendation of any Mideast Citizen.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Mopsus on August 06, 2011, 06:43:07 PM
Reintroduced from the previous session.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on August 10, 2011, 02:16:48 PM
Amendment to the Mideast Abortion Statute II

Section 1 of the Mideast Abortion Statute shall be amended to read:

"1: No abortions shall be permitted except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 11, 2011, 01:46:38 AM
Since I can't find the Governor's office, I'll post this here:

The following bill has passed:

Quote
Vote Sanctity Act

A voter who edits his ballot any length of time after it has been posted in the voting booth thread for any Mideast Election nullifies it. Election authorities shall not count a ballot altered in the above manner.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on August 11, 2011, 09:16:44 AM
Leave of absence

From August 14th to August 21st I will be absent and won't have any internet access. Thus, I will obviously not be able to cast any vote during the next week.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on August 13, 2011, 01:26:20 PM
Constitutional Amendment to Article 4 of the Mideast Constitution

The passage “Voters shall be allowed to edit their ballots within 20 minutes of posting their original ballot or until the official end time of voting, whichever comes first.”

in Section 1 of Article 4 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read

“A voter who edits his ballot any length of time after it has been posted in the voting booth thread for any Mideast Election nullifies it. Election authorities shall not count a ballot altered in the above manner.”


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: TJ in Oregon on August 18, 2011, 10:50:16 PM
This is a mix of Deleware laws, Sarbanes-Oxley, and a bit of my own personal thoughts. I am not an accountant and this is beginning to enter that realm if done in any more detail… so bear that in mind. If anyone sees a mistake somewhere feel free to correct me.

Quote
Mideast Corporate Governance Reform

Section 1: Mideast Court of Chancery
The Mideast Court of Chancery is hereby established. All corporate suits in the Mideast Region will be heard by the Court of Chancery. All rulings in the Court of Chancery will be determined by a qualified judge familiar with corporate laws rather than a jury of the general public. No criminal charges may be brought forth in the Court of Chancery.

Section 2: Imposition of Incorporation Fees
Local and state authorities are forbidden to charge incorporation fees within the Mideast Region.

Section 3: Executive Base Salary Limits
The Mideast Region and any state and local authorities within shall have no base salary limits on corporate executives and shall impose no limit to the size of a base salary that may be deducted from corporate income.

Section 3: Restrictions on Publically Traded Corporations
a.   All publically traded corporations incorporated within the Mideast Region are hereby required to hold an independent audit annually. An independent auditor may not be compensated by the corporation in any way except for the cost of the audit.
b.   All publically traded corporations incorporated within the Mideast Region are hereby required to release a detailed record of company finances to all shareholders on a quarterly basis. This disclosure must include a balance sheet and all other financial transactions off the balance sheet, including but not limited to stock transactions of corporate officers.
c.   The percentage of stock in a publically traded corporation incorporated within the Mideast Region that is held through compensation to corporate officials, including options, may not exceed 7% of the total company stock.
d.   Stock options issued by a publically traded corporation must be expensed using the Fair Value Method. Use of the Intrinsic Value Method or any other method is hereby forbidden.
e.   The Mideast Accounting Board (MAB) is hereby established. Violations of this section will be investigated by the MAB and charges may be brought in criminal court for individuals and corporations that fail to comply.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 19, 2011, 07:35:02 PM
Sorry everyone, I've been without power for the past 2 days (if your electric company has a problem turning on your power, it'd make sense for them to contact you, not just not turn it on and have you move into a powerless apartment).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on August 21, 2011, 05:58:44 PM
Mr. Speaker, Honourable Assemblymen,

I wish to let you know that I've just signed my resignation from the Mideast Superior Court.

I thank you for your confirmations throughout the time.
I'm sure our Governor will propose to the Assembly a fine pick and that you'll examine it with your usual fairness and seriousness.

I hereby resign from my position as Judge in the Mideast Superior Court.

I thank you for your ever-renewed confidence, Mr. Governor, but my private life is now too busy for me to be able to assume any public charge in Atlasia.

I'll remain a citizen, full of pride of our great region and full of political awareness.
I'm sure your choice for the next Judge will be a good one.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on August 21, 2011, 06:25:07 PM
I hereby appoint Happy Warrior to be the Superior Court Justice.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on August 22, 2011, 02:33:38 PM
I'll give it a last try because I want to see whether we can find common ground on a mere reduction of the ballot editing time.

Constitutional Amendment – reduction of ballot editing time

The first Section of Article IV of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

Article IV - Election Regulations

Section 1: Election Procedure


1. All those considered to be qualified to vote from a State within the Mideast Region for federal elections, shall be qualified to vote in all elections, propositions, initiatives, recalls and Constitutional Amendments of the Mideast Region, except as where Regional Law may provide.

2. All candidates for electoral office in the Mideast Region shall be qualified to vote in the Mideast Region.

3. Voters shall be allowed to edit their ballots within 4 minutes of posting their original ballot or until the official end time of voting, whichever comes first.

4. No person shall campaign in the thread in which voting shall occur. If a person does so they shall have their vote(s) counted as invalid and shall be subject to further trial and punishment as the law may provide. A person's username and signature are exempt from this clause.

5. The Governor shall administer all elections, propositions, Constitutional Amendments and recalls, unless it be his recall or he shall be unavailable, in which case the Speaker shall administer the elections. If he or she is also unavailable, then the Judge shall administer the elections.

6. The exact time at which a given election or vote shall begin may be determined by the voting booth administrator subject to such restrictions as may be imposed by Law.

7. In order to be a candidate on the ballot, a candidate must declare their candidacy for that office on the Candidate Declaration Thread at least forty-eight hours prior to the earliest possible commencement of the election for that office.

8. Those elected shall take office at noon Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday after their election.

9. In order to exercise their powers, all officers of the Regional government must first be sworn into office.

10. The oath of office shall be as follows: "I, [state name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of [state office name] and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Mideast Region, so help me Dave."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on August 28, 2011, 02:42:53 PM
Guidelines for Private Language Schools Act

1. A private language school in the Mideast is only allowed to offer language classes if it is licensed by the Mideast Department of Education.

2. In order to receive a license by the Mideast Department of Education, a private language school must meet all of the below-mentioned criteria. It is the task of the Mideast Department of Education to review and assess a language school which applies for a license and to grant, refuse or withdraw a particular language school a license based on its interpretation of the below-mentioned criteria:

a) All teachers of the language school in question must have the necessary professional qualifications to teach in a particular language.

b) All teachers of the language school in question must regularly take part in training courses related with their profession.

c) The main educational goal of the language school in question must be the long-term satisfaction and success of every student.

d) The language school in question must ensure that it constantly strives for the preservation of and the improvement in educational quality.

e) The language school in question must strive for a customer-oriented, economically efficient and effective management.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on August 28, 2011, 03:21:36 PM

3. Voters shall be allowed to edit their ballots within 4 minutes of posting their original ballot or until the official end time of voting, whichever comes first.


That violates the Atlasian Constitution.

Article IV Section 1:4 "Regions are autonomous of the federal government and may govern themselves and their elections as they wish, except where otherwise provided for in this Constitution."

Article V Section 2:8 "Persons who edit the post in which their vote(s) are contained at the place of voting after twenty minutes shall have their vote counted as void."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on August 28, 2011, 03:29:06 PM

3. Voters shall be allowed to edit their ballots within 4 minutes of posting their original ballot or until the official end time of voting, whichever comes first.


That violates the Atlasian Constitution.

Article IV Section 1:4 "Regions are autonomous of the federal government and may govern themselves and their elections as they wish, except where otherwise provided for in this Constitution."

Article V Section 2:8 "Persons who edit the post in which their vote(s) are contained at the place of voting after twenty minutes shall have their vote counted as void."

I see. It is not made explicit in the Constitution, but I ask myself whether this doesn't count for federal elections only. The previous parts of this section of the constitution seem to deal with federal elections, so I'm not sure about this part.

But if it is indeed unconstitutional what I proposed in my amendment, I guess the same can be said about the Northeast "Vote Sanctity Act" ...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on August 28, 2011, 03:37:21 PM

3. Voters shall be allowed to edit their ballots within 4 minutes of posting their original ballot or until the official end time of voting, whichever comes first.


That violates the Atlasian Constitution.

Article IV Section 1:4 "Regions are autonomous of the federal government and may govern themselves and their elections as they wish, except where otherwise provided for in this Constitution."

Article V Section 2:8 "Persons who edit the post in which their vote(s) are contained at the place of voting after twenty minutes shall have their vote counted as void."

I see. It is not made explicit in the Constitution, but I ask myself whether this doesn't count for federal elections only. The previous parts of this section of the constitution seem to deal with federal elections, so I'm not sure about this part.

But if it is indeed unconstitutional what I proposed in my amendment, I guess the same can be said about the Northeast "Vote Sanctity Act" ...

I had some issues over the wording myself as 2:7 is, as you say concerned with federal elections, however the whole of Article V seems concerned with voter registration in general which lead me to read it as referring to all elections.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on August 29, 2011, 09:39:02 AM
I'd just like to thank the Assembly members for their vote of confidence in confirming me as the new Mideast Judge.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Mopsus on September 05, 2011, 01:41:38 PM
Quote from: Amendment to Article III of the Mideast Constitution
The following shall be added to Article III of the Mideast Constitution:
Section 6: Senate Vacancy
 1. If a vacancy shall occur in the Mideast Regional Senate Seat more than 21 days before the next regularly scheduled election for that Seat, the Mideast Assembly shall, within one week of that vacancy occuring, hold a vote to determine the person who shall serve the remainder of that term.
 2. For the purpose of determining who the Mideast Assembly shall appoint to the Senate, a thread, which shall henceforth be referred to in this Amendment as the Mideast Senate Appointment Thread, shall immediately be opened in the Regional Government subforum, by either the Speaker of the Mideast Assembly, the Governor of the Mideast, or the Superior Court of the Mideast Region.
 3. All regulations, except where otherwise stated in this Amendment, which apply to a typical Bill under consideration by the Assembly shall also apply to the Mideast Senate Appointment Thread.
 4. All candidates who wish to be considered by the Assembly for appointment to the Senate shall make their intentions clear in the Mideast Assembly Thread or the Mideast Senate Appointment Thread.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 12, 2011, 08:20:54 PM
My Internet is down.  Until further notice, the Assembly is on recess.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on September 27, 2011, 09:06:36 AM
Once all new Assemblymembers will have sworn in, we should elect a Speaker. We have to get back to work! ;)

Speaker Inks, your internet is apparently still down, isn't it?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on September 27, 2011, 09:19:43 AM
Any nominations for Speaker at this stage?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on September 27, 2011, 09:24:17 AM
Any nominations for Speaker at this stage?

Inks, if he still wants to do the job and has a working internet connection.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 27, 2011, 11:18:56 PM
Yes.  I'll do it.  Sorry, I've been a bit absent as of late (LSAT studying, but that'll be over Saturday).  Once we get this out of the way, I'll reintroduce all the legislation from last session.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on September 30, 2011, 08:06:16 AM
I'm not sure if I even have the authority to ask this, but are there any nominations for Speaker besides Inks?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on September 30, 2011, 08:37:23 AM
I'm not sure if I even have the authority to ask this, but are there any nominations for Speaker besides Inks?

No one else seems to have dropped by. You could second the nomination :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on September 30, 2011, 08:59:08 AM
I'm not sure if I even have the authority to ask this, but are there any nominations for Speaker besides Inks?

No one else seems to have dropped by. You could second the nomination :)

I think I sort of did that a few posts above, but I can do it in a more formal way: I second Inks' nomination for Speaker of the Mideast Assembly. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: TJ in Oregon on September 30, 2011, 09:08:25 AM
I'll third the nomination ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: TJ in Oregon on October 02, 2011, 07:27:18 PM
This is modeled after the state of Kentucky replacing all their traffic lights’ incandescent bulbs with LEDs (http://pressroom.geconsumerproducts.com/pr/ge/kentuckytrafficsignals.aspx). It’s expected to save them $3.2 million per year in maintenance costs.

Quote
Lighting Technology Act
1. All traffic lights maintained by the Mideast Region shall hereby have all bulbs replaced with LED signals at the soonest scheduled bulb replacement.
2. Mideast offices and agencies will henceforth purchase compact fluorescent bulb technology rather than incandescent when a replacement is necessary.
3. If the circumstances in a particular instance cause this act to be against the common sense of the project’s manager, the manager may issue a written request to disregard this act for the instance in question.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on October 03, 2011, 06:48:28 AM
This is modeled after the state of Kentucky replacing all their traffic lights’ incandescent bulbs with LEDs (http://pressroom.geconsumerproducts.com/pr/ge/kentuckytrafficsignals.aspx). It’s expected to save them $3.2 million per year in maintenance costs.

Quote
Lighting Technology Act
1. All traffic lights maintained by the Mideast Region shall hereby have all bulbs replaced with LED signals at the soonest scheduled bulb replacement.
2. Mideast offices and agencies will henceforth purchase compact fluorescent bulb technology rather than incandescent when a replacement is necessary.
3. If the circumstances in a particular instance cause this act to be against the common sense of the project’s manager, the manager may issue a written request to disregard this act for the instance in question.


Strongly supported.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on October 03, 2011, 09:23:21 AM
Guidelines for Private Language Schools Act

1. A private language school in the Mideast is only allowed to offer language classes if it is licensed by the Mideast Department of Education.

2. In order to receive a license by the Mideast Department of Education, a private language school must meet all of the below-mentioned criteria. It is the task of the Mideast Department of Education to review and assess a language school which applies for a license and to grant, refuse or withdraw a particular language school a license based on its interpretation of the below-mentioned criteria:

a) All teachers of the language school in question must have the necessary professional qualifications to teach in a particular language.

b) All teachers of the language school in question must regularly take part in training courses related with their profession.

c) The main educational goal of the language school in question must be the long-term satisfaction and success of every student.

d) The language school in question must ensure that it constantly strives for the preservation of and the improvement in educational quality.

e) The language school in question must strive for a customer-oriented, economically efficient and effective management.



Reintroduced from last session


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: TJ in Oregon on October 04, 2011, 10:22:19 PM
This is modeled off a similar project in Logan, Utah (http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_13211659) to use algae to clean up a body of water polluted with phosphate-laden runoff. As the Mideast Region is home to  one of the most polluted bodies of water in the entire country (http://www.epa.ohio.gov/pic/glsm_algae.aspx), and one polluted with cyanobacteria (http://cleantechnica.com/2008/08/26/cyanobacteria-the-next-big-biofuel/) from phosphate-laden runoff, I propose we study implementing the lagoon harvesting process implemented in Utah. In total, this is more or less an niche energy source only valuable in a very specific set of circumstances like what we may have here and an inexpensive waste treatment option for phosphate-rich streams.

I'm not entirely sure how our appropriations work given the state of our budget...but here it is anyway.

Quote
Clean up the Grand Lake St. Mary’s Act
Section 1. This act authorizes the commencement of a study into the potential usage of cyanobacteria to treat runoff into the Grand Lake St. Mary’s as a phosphate removal technique in the hope that the cyanobacteria harvested will become a viable biofuel option.
a.   The study will be funded by  $150,000 over two years.
b.   It’s implementation will be decided by the Mideast Waste Management & Pollution Agency and may be appropriated up to $1 Million for construction.
Section 2. Local governments experiencing similar situations may apply for funding for algal studies as a phosphate removal and biofuel option. No more than $3 Million annually may be approved for funding by the Mideast Waste Management & Pollution Agency.
Section 3. Cyanobacteria harvested as biofuel is property of the Mideast Regional and may be sold to private interests on contractual basis.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on October 09, 2011, 02:56:03 PM
With Inks out of action, the legislature is stalled. However in reading the Constitution I can't see where it requires the Speaker to formally table a bill; the power of the Speaker isn't defined. Which is actually no bad thing.

Simply 'The legislative power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Mideast Assembly.'

I see no reason why someone other than the Speaker cannot open the debate. If however it is the Assembly's understanding that no one other than the Speaker can do so, then I would recommend a constitutional amendment be tabled to confer a 'deputy' status on another Assemblyman when the Speaker does return.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on October 09, 2011, 03:01:20 PM
With Inks out of action, the legislature is stalled. However in reading the Constitution I can't see where it requires the Speaker to formally table a bill; the power of the Speaker isn't defined. Which is actually no bad thing.

Simply 'The legislative power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Mideast Assembly.'

I see no reason why someone other than the Speaker cannot open the debate. If however it is the Assembly's understanding that no one other than the Speaker can do so, then I would recommend a constitutional amendment be tabled to confer a 'deputy' status on another Assemblyman when the Speaker does return.

You're probably right. Yes, the constitution doesn't say it has to be the Speaker. That's just how it was done in the past so I assumed we have to wait for Inks to return. But there's apparently no real base for this "belief". ;)

I'll introduce the first bill, the Lighting Technology Act by TJ. Just to get things started.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on October 09, 2011, 03:07:18 PM
With Inks out of action, the legislature is stalled. However in reading the Constitution I can't see where it requires the Speaker to formally table a bill; the power of the Speaker isn't defined. Which is actually no bad thing.

Simply 'The legislative power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Mideast Assembly.'

I see no reason why someone other than the Speaker cannot open the debate. If however it is the Assembly's understanding that no one other than the Speaker can do so, then I would recommend a constitutional amendment be tabled to confer a 'deputy' status on another Assemblyman when the Speaker does return.

You're probably right. Yes, the constitution doesn't say it has to be the Speaker. That's just how it was done in the past so I assumed we have to wait for Inks to return. But there's apparently no real base for this "belief". ;)

I'll introduce the first bill, the Lighting Technology Act by TJ. Just to get things started.

I'm looking forward to Inks return :) However thank you for introducing legislation in order to get things moving again.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on October 21, 2011, 07:14:33 AM
Language Awareness Act

1. The Mideast Assembly hereby recognizes that while English serves as the primary language of the majority of people who live in the Mideast region there is no official language in the Mideast. Furthermore, the Assembly recognizes that the great language and dialect diversity in the Mideast is of great value to the region.

2. Public elementary schools and high schools in the Mideast are encouraged, but not required, to include the topic of local language and dialect diversity in their curricula. Elementary schools and high schools which opt to offer classes on this topic may request financial and/or logistic support by the Mideast Department of Education. Upon receiving a written request, the Mideast Department of Education is required to grant support to the school in question. Schools which receive support by the Mideast Department of Education are required to use all funding and/or logistic help for the purposes designed in Section 2 of this Act.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Mopsus on October 21, 2011, 10:02:49 AM
Quote from: Amendment to the Amendment to Article III of the Mideast Constitution
The Amendment to Article III of the Mideast Constitution is amended to read:
The following shall be added to Article III of the Mideast Constitution:
Section 6: Senate Vacancy
 1. If a vacancy shall occur in the Mideast Regional Senate Seat more than 21 days before the next regularly scheduled election for that Seat, the Governor of the Mideast shall nominate a candidate to serve the remainder of the Term.
 2. Upon the Governor making his appointment, the Speaker of the Mideast Assembly shall open a thread within 72 hours of the time of the appointment, henceforth referred to in this Bill as the Mideast Assembly Appointment Thread, in the Regional Governments subforum, in which the Governor's Nominee shall be debated, and ultimately voted upon, by the Assembly.
 3. All other regulations which apply to a regular Bill under consideration by the Mideast Assembly shall apply to the Mideast Senate Appointment Thread.
 4. A final vote must be called in the Mideast Senate Appointment Thread within 96 hours of the thread being opened.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on October 27, 2011, 09:55:22 AM
Mideast Green Technology Bill

Pre-amble: The Mideast Government is committed to expanding the use of green technology to both sustain and utilise the natural environment of the Mideast for the benefit of our economy.

Section 1:

a. F.L. 44-8: Atlasian Green Jobs Act states: "$8 billion worth of the Go Green Fund will be available to regional governments for the purposes of expanding their green technology."
b. The Mideast Government shall appropriate our share of this fund to invest in and support green technology including but not limited to: Recycling, Water Purification, Air Purification, Sewage treatment, Environmental remediation, Solid waste management, Renewable energy, eGain forecasting and Energy Conservation
c. Green Technology companies or those committed to 'going green' will be invited to apply for funds with priority given to low-income businesses, community organizations and university sponsored programs for the purposes of research.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on October 27, 2011, 10:03:57 AM
Mideast Emergency Housing Act

The Assembly notes that F.L. 45-9: Homeless Shelter and Emergency Housing Act of 2011 has passed. The Act stipulates that: "Regional Housing Authorities will have priority access to the funds."

Section 1

a. The Assembly agrees to the conditions set within the aforementioned Federal bill.
b. The Mideast Regional Housing Authority will be responsible for overseeing the application for the Federal funds and administering the programme.
c. The Mideast Regional Housing Authority may use the data collected in the Mideast Index of Multiple Deprivation to assist with delivering the programme.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on October 28, 2011, 06:56:34 AM
Muzzle for Dangerous Dogs Bill

The Mideast Dog Breed Equity Under the Law Act is hereby repealed.

1. Dogs of the following breeds or crosses or hybrids of the following breeds are required to wear a muzzle in all public places:

a) Pit bull terrier
b) Japanese tosa

2. A dog owner who violates these regulations once shall be fined. If a dog owner violates these regulations repeatedly, regional authorities shall take the dog away from the owner and the owner shall lose his/her right to own a dog for at least two years.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: TJ in Oregon on October 28, 2011, 12:21:41 PM
Does one of the Assemblymen need to sponsor the governor's legislation? Or can we simply begin debating his proposals?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 29, 2011, 01:05:23 AM
With Inks out of action, the legislature is stalled. However in reading the Constitution I can't see where it requires the Speaker to formally table a bill; the power of the Speaker isn't defined. Which is actually no bad thing.

Simply 'The legislative power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Mideast Assembly.'

I see no reason why someone other than the Speaker cannot open the debate. If however it is the Assembly's understanding that no one other than the Speaker can do so, then I would recommend a constitutional amendment be tabled to confer a 'deputy' status on another Assemblyman when the Speaker does return.

You're probably right. Yes, the constitution doesn't say it has to be the Speaker. That's just how it was done in the past so I assumed we have to wait for Inks to return. But there's apparently no real base for this "belief". ;)

I'll introduce the first bill, the Lighting Technology Act by TJ. Just to get things started.

The MAPLDV specifies that the Speaker creates the new threads, but it never expressly says someone else can't do it, only that the Speaker is to do so.  So in the absence of the Speaker, I don't think the opening of a thread by anyone else would be illegal under the law.  That's just my interpretation, but there certainly is nothing that says ONLY the Speaker can do it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 29, 2011, 01:07:28 AM
Does one of the Assemblymen need to sponsor the governor's legislation? Or can we simply begin debating his proposals?

No, the Governor can propose legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: TJ in Oregon on November 05, 2011, 01:45:17 PM
Quote
Shoreline Property Rights Act
Section 1. Private property adjacent to publically owned bodies of water shall extend to the standard annual low-water mark unless otherwise agreed upon by the two owner and public entity.

Section 2. Permits for the permanent use of public water for docks, piers, etc. constructed beginning on private property may be obtained throught the Mideast Department of Natural Resources.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on November 14, 2011, 10:53:52 AM
Comprehensive Education Act

Background.

The School Standards Reform Act was passed by the Senate in August 2009, however a caveat in the law meant that it didn't take effect until August 10, 2011. Now that it is in force, this legislation is to bring Mideast education up to this level. The Senate legislation stated;

"This legislation shall not be interpreted as to override any stricter standards upheld by law within any Regions or lower-level authorities, nor to discourage school districts or students from exceeding the minimum requirements."

As a result the legislation proposed below brings together some of our existing legislation

Section 1: Terminology

For the purposes of this legislation:

“Elementary school” shall refer to any school offering only grades below 5th, inclusive.
“Middle school” shall refer to any school offering only grades below 8th, inclusive, with at least one grade above 6th, inclusive.
“High school” shall refer to any school offering at least one grade above 9th, inclusive.

Section 2: Elementary School Reforms

All public elementary schools shall be required to offer pre-K and Kindergarten programs to all students within the district whose guardians wish them to be enrolled. The federal government shall provide matching funds to the regions of up to 40% the total cost of such programs.
 
All children must be enrolled in school, public or otherwise, within one and a half years of their fourth birthdays.

Section 3: Middle School Reforms

All public middle schools must offer at least one foreign language program. Enrollment in said program may be optional, as dictated by regional and district law.

All students in grades 6 through 8 shall be required to study science, English, history, and mathematics for all of their three years in said grades. All public middle schools must offer said subjects for all three grades.

Section 4: High School Reforms

 All public high school students must complete, between 9th and 12th grade, at least four courses in mathematics, four courses in English, three courses in a single foreign language, three courses in the social sciences, one course in Atlasian history, three courses of science with at least three of said courses lab intensive, in addition to four elective courses.

All public high schools must offer classes on mathematics, chemistry, biology, physics, English, Atlasian history, world history, and at least (but not limited to) two different foreign languages sufficient in number to allow students to complete the above requirements.

All public high schools with a student body greater than 400 that offer at least 3 advanced courses (Advanced Placement, Running Start and International Baccalaureate are acceptable) shall receive up to 30% the total cost of such programs split evenly between the governing region and federal government.

High school students as an elective course may undertake craft, skill, and artistry apprenticeships alongside traditional academic education Non-academic subjects shall be examined as per academic subjects according to current examination guidelines. Non-academic subjects may be studied in approved and inspected facilities outside of designated educational establishments.

Section 5. Repealed Legislation

The Mideast Second Educational Reform Statute is hereby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 22, 2011, 01:44:26 AM
Just a reminder that Thanksgiving is not a holiday that the Assembly gets off, so I expect everybody to be here on Thursday!  ;)

I'll bring the pumpkin pie!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 26, 2011, 10:36:19 AM
Sorry I've been absent - I had some medical stuff to take care of.  The session is now closed, and the new session shall now begin.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 26, 2011, 04:02:45 PM
I nominate ZuWo for Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on November 27, 2011, 05:11:20 AM
I thank A-Bob for his confidence in me! If a majority of Assemblymembers wants me to become Speaker, I'll accept that most gratefully.

However, In order to give the Assembly a choice and to express my approval of the current speaker, I nominate Speaker Inks.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 27, 2011, 02:07:07 PM
I am fine with either, so no loss to me :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 27, 2011, 09:19:24 PM
I second the nominations of both Inks and ZuWo - both would do a great job! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 27, 2011, 11:37:53 PM
I accept the nomination.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 27, 2011, 11:39:02 PM
Considering nominations have been open for over a day, I'll close nominations and begin the vote.  Members will vote for ZuWo or Inks.LWC.  This will be a 24-hour procedural vote that takes place in this thread.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on November 28, 2011, 04:52:27 AM
Inks

(I still accept votes, though :P)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 28, 2011, 02:16:35 PM
I like both of y'all so much so don't take this personally...

Inks


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: TJ in Oregon on November 28, 2011, 02:25:14 PM
ZuWo

as part of a plot to make Inks vote on it :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on November 28, 2011, 05:39:19 PM
ZuWo

:O The vote is up to Inks


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2011, 01:42:49 AM
Well, I had planned on abstaining, but I guess that's not a good option anymore.

Inks.LWC


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2011, 01:43:35 AM
Voting is now closed.  Inks.LWC has received 3 votes, and ZuWo has received 2 votes.  Inks.LWC is elected Speaker of the Assembly.

Legislation may now be introduced.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on November 29, 2011, 04:45:56 AM
I accept my defeat! :P

Now let's go back to work.

Keep our Region Clean from Litter and Safe from Vandalism Act

1. It is a punishable offence

a) to dispose of litter in an inappropriate manner in public places (a practice commonly referred to as “littering”)

b) to commit acts of vandalism in public places

2. a) Any person who violates at least one of the two clauses of the first section of this Act shall be fined at least 50$. Severe violations of this Act may be punished with a prison sentence.

b) Any person who violates at least one of the two clauses of the first section of this Act and is subsequently fined up to 500$ may opt to work in a litter clean-up program for at least 20 hours instead of paying the fine.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on December 09, 2011, 10:59:56 AM
New Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act

1. The Mideast Marijuana Taxation Act is hereby repealed.

2. There shall be a 20% tax increase on all marijuana substances in the Mideast.

3. a) 50% of the money collected by this tax shall fund the Mideast Victim Compensation Act.

b) 45% of the money collected by this tax shall be used for the establishment of the Mideast Cannabis Prevention Center, which shall be supervised by the Mideast Department of Health. The main task of the Mideast Cannabis Prevention Center is to inform the public on the harmful effects of marijuana and organize regular marijuana prevention activities in public schools.

c) 5% of the money collected by this tax shall fund the creation of community murals as specified in Section 3 in the Keep our Region Clean and Free from Vandalism Act.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: TJ in Oregon on December 12, 2011, 11:53:38 AM
 
Quote
Constitutional Amendment – definition of election

Clause 3 of the first Section of Article IV of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

3. Voters shall be allowed to edit their ballots within 20 minutes of posting their original ballot or until the official end time of voting, whichever comes first. This restriction applies to all elections, votes, referendums, initiatives, propositions, recalls, and constitutional amendments administered by the Mideast region.

After watching the drama unfold in the Northeast over whether or not a constitutional amendment vote is an “election”, I think we ought to make it clear that in the Mideast, it is an election.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 19, 2011, 07:32:21 PM
How would my fellow Assemblymembers and Governor feel about a law abolishing laws requiring citizens to wear a seatbelt? I was thinking, no longer making it a requirement for people 18 and older, as well as an rodents. Basically leaving it to the insurance companies.

Thoughts?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on December 19, 2011, 08:39:19 PM
How would my fellow Assemblymembers and Governor feel about a law abolishing laws requiring citizens to wear a seatbelt? I was thinking, no longer making it a requirement for people 18 and older, as well as an rodents. Basically leaving it to the insurance companies.

Thoughts?

As long as this won't increase injuries and thus the taxpayers having to pay for people's medical bills, particularly those who don't buy insurance and those on the government plan.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: TJ in Oregon on December 19, 2011, 09:47:37 PM
How would my fellow Assemblymembers and Governor feel about a law abolishing laws requiring citizens to wear a seatbelt? I was thinking, no longer making it a requirement for people 18 and older, as well as an rodents. Basically leaving it to the insurance companies.

Thoughts?

I would generally be against such a measure because seat belt laws both reduce injury and act as a source for revenue for local governments and aren't too terribly invasive. I could see allowing those 18 and older to ride in the backseat with out them, but that's the limit of how far you could reduce the seat belt laws while still getting my vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on December 20, 2011, 02:54:57 AM
I believe a requirement to wear seatbelts is an absolute necessity. The mere fact that they might be punished if they don't wear seatbelts makes most car drivers use them. If we compare the number of traffic casualties during times when no or only a few people wore a seatbelt with the number of today, I think we can conclude that the seatbelt requirement has had a very positive impact.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on December 21, 2011, 05:36:32 AM
Smaller Assembly Amendment

Clause 2 in Section 1 of Article 3 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

2. The Assembly shall be composed of three members, each of whom shall be registered voters residing in the Mideast Region.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 28, 2011, 06:06:48 PM
How would my fellow Assemblymembers and Governor feel about a law abolishing laws requiring citizens to wear a seatbelt? I was thinking, no longer making it a requirement for people 18 and older, as well as an rodents. Basically leaving it to the insurance companies.

Thoughts?

Opposed


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on December 28, 2011, 06:55:12 PM
How would my fellow Assemblymembers and Governor feel about a law abolishing laws requiring citizens to wear a seatbelt? I was thinking, no longer making it a requirement for people 18 and older, as well as an rodents. Basically leaving it to the insurance companies.

Thoughts?

Opposed

I would veto it if it passed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: TJ in Oregon on January 03, 2012, 08:26:22 AM
I unfortunately will probably not be in the assembly long enough to vote on this, but here is the welfare bill discussed some time ago.

Quote
Mideast Welfare Drug Screening
Section 1: All adults with prior drug convictions applying for governmental income assistance in the Mideast Region must pass a drug screening free of illegal substances to receive benefits.

Section 2: The cost of the testing is paid for by the individual filing for benefits, but will be reimbursed upon producing a clean test.

Section 3: If the use of an illegal substance is detected on a test, that person is barred from receiving benefits for six months. In the event of a second failed drug test, the person in question is barred from receiving benefits for three years.

Section 4: If an adult filing on behalf of children fails a drug screening, that adult may not receive the children’s benefits, but the benefits may instead be transferred to the children through another adult.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 29, 2012, 06:41:57 PM
The last session of the Assembly is over, and the new session is officially now in session.  Members please swear in in the appropriate thread.

I will now open nominations for the position of Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: big bad fab on January 30, 2012, 10:33:21 AM
I hereby nominate Inks.LWC as Speaker of the Mideast Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 31, 2012, 01:23:03 AM
Any other nominations?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on February 01, 2012, 07:18:18 AM
I hereby nominate Inks.LWC as Speaker of the Mideast Assembly.

I second the nomination of Inks.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 02, 2012, 03:13:16 AM
Seeing no other nominations, I ask unanimous consent that Inks.LWC is elected Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 02, 2012, 03:14:28 AM
Seeing no objections, Inks.LWC is duly elected Speaker of the Assembly.

Alright - legislation may now be introduced.  So, if we want to try the Welfare Drug Screening legislation over again, now would be the time to do that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on February 02, 2012, 04:16:10 AM
Re-introduced from the last session (TJ's bill):

Mideast Welfare Drug Screening

Section 1: All adults with prior drug convictions applying for governmental income assistance in the Mideast Region must pass a drug screening free of illegal substances to receive benefits.

Section 2: The cost of the testing is paid for by the individual filing for benefits, but will be reimbursed upon producing a clean test.

Section 3: If the use of an illegal substance is detected on a test, that person is barred from receiving benefits for six months. In the event of a second failed drug test, the person in question is barred from receiving benefits for three years.

Section 4: If an adult filing on behalf of children fails a drug screening, that adult may not receive the children’s benefits, but the benefits may instead be transferred to the children through another adult.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on February 02, 2012, 05:17:41 AM
Re-introduced from the last session (TJ's bill):

Mideast Welfare Drug Screening

Section 1: All adults with prior drug convictions applying for governmental income assistance in the Mideast Region must pass a drug screening free of illegal substances to receive benefits.

Section 2: The cost of the testing is paid for by the individual filing for benefits, but will be reimbursed upon producing a clean test.

Section 3: If the use of an illegal substance is detected on a test, that person is barred from receiving benefits for six months. In the event of a second failed drug test, the person in question is barred from receiving benefits for three years.

Section 4: If an adult filing on behalf of children fails a drug screening, that adult may not receive the children’s benefits, but the benefits may instead be transferred to the children through another adult.


It will be vetoed again unless Section 4 is removed or amended.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on February 20, 2012, 04:56:55 AM
Taken and adapted from the IDS.

Questioning the Power Act

1. Once every month, the Governor of the Mideast shall be required to dedicate a part of his time to provide answers to questions which citizens may ask in a special thread. This thread shall be created by the Governor.
2. The special thread shall be opened, or a previous thread bumped, on a Monday.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on February 21, 2012, 10:06:58 PM
To promote transparency, I support this legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on February 26, 2012, 03:46:19 PM
I have a question about recalls.

Article 3, Section 5, Clause 1 of the ME constitution says the following:

Quote
Section 5: Recall

1. One-fifth of the People may propose a Recall of any elected or appointed official of the Region.


Now do you think this applies to a Superior Court Judge as well? After all, a Superior Court Judge is an "appointed" (by the Governor) and "elected" (by the Assembly) official. As you may know, our current Superior Court Judge has disappeared in the midst of an ongoing court case. If the constitution allows a recall of the Superior Court Judge, I suggest we either recall Judge HappyWarrior asap or just don't reconfirm him next time the Assembly has the right to do that. If you think the above-mentioned clause does not apply to Superior Court Judges, we should amend the constitution. Thanks for your help. The answer might be obvious to you or I might have overlooked something, but I just want to make sure we're on clear legal ground here.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on February 27, 2012, 04:36:37 AM
Car Safety Act

1. Car drivers and passengers are required to wear seatbelts in a moving vehicle. Car drivers and passengers who violate this regulation shall be fined.

2. Car drivers are not permitted to use a mobile phone in a moving vehicle. Car drivers who violate this regulation shall be fined.

3. Children up to the age of 6 years must be fastened in a government-approved child safety seat in a moving vehicle. Guidelines for child safety seats shall be made by the Mideast Department of Transport. In case this clause is violated, the car driver in question shall be fined.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 03, 2012, 03:55:48 AM
I have a question about recalls.

Article 3, Section 5, Clause 1 of the ME constitution says the following:

Quote
Section 5: Recall

1. One-fifth of the People may propose a Recall of any elected or appointed official of the Region.


Now do you think this applies to a Superior Court Judge as well? After all, a Superior Court Judge is an "appointed" (by the Governor) and "elected" (by the Assembly) official. As you may know, our current Superior Court Judge has disappeared in the midst of an ongoing court case. If the constitution allows a recall of the Superior Court Judge, I suggest we either recall Judge HappyWarrior asap or just don't reconfirm him next time the Assembly has the right to do that. If you think the above-mentioned clause does not apply to Superior Court Judges, we should amend the constitution. Thanks for your help. The answer might be obvious to you or I might have overlooked something, but I just want to make sure we're on clear legal ground here.

What court case?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on March 03, 2012, 11:41:41 AM
I have a question about recalls.

Article 3, Section 5, Clause 1 of the ME constitution says the following:

Quote
Section 5: Recall

1. One-fifth of the People may propose a Recall of any elected or appointed official of the Region.


Now do you think this applies to a Superior Court Judge as well? After all, a Superior Court Judge is an "appointed" (by the Governor) and "elected" (by the Assembly) official. As you may know, our current Superior Court Judge has disappeared in the midst of an ongoing court case. If the constitution allows a recall of the Superior Court Judge, I suggest we either recall Judge HappyWarrior asap or just don't reconfirm him next time the Assembly has the right to do that. If you think the above-mentioned clause does not apply to Superior Court Judges, we should amend the constitution. Thanks for your help. The answer might be obvious to you or I might have overlooked something, but I just want to make sure we're on clear legal ground here.

What court case?

The abortion bill. The Assembly passed an abortion ban a few sessions ago, there was an ensuing court case about it and Judge Happy Warrior left without making a decision.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 03, 2012, 05:50:21 PM
Somehow I missed that, but yes, a recall would be the proper way to remove a Superior Court Judge.  He is appointed, and therefore, Section 5 applies to him.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 06, 2012, 05:45:53 AM
I'll be on vacation until Thursday with no Internet access.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 09, 2012, 01:04:06 AM
I have returned.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 25, 2012, 03:37:13 AM
The last session is now ended, and the new session has begun.  Please swear in.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 25, 2012, 03:37:40 AM
I will also now be taking nominations for the position of Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on March 25, 2012, 06:56:23 AM
I nominate Inks for Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on March 27, 2012, 09:42:13 AM
I will second the nod.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 28, 2012, 05:34:20 PM
Seeing no other nominations, I ask unanimous consent that nominations be closed and a Inks.LWC be elected Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 28, 2012, 05:35:15 PM
Seeing no objection, the motion passes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 28, 2012, 11:46:48 PM
If anybody has legislation, feel free to introduce it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on March 30, 2012, 03:02:31 AM
Re-introduced from last session (though slightly adapted) to spark activity.

Quote
Questioning the Power Act

1. Once every month, the Governor of the Mideast shall be required to dedicate a part of his time to provide answers to questions which citizens may ask in a special thread. This thread shall be made specifically for the purpose of a "question session". This thread shall be created by the Governor.
2. The special thread shall be opened, or a previous thread bumped, on a Monday. The Governor can end such a question session at his own discretion.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on April 05, 2012, 01:46:51 PM
Fellow members of the Assembly, Governor,

our constitution says the following concerning the wiki:

Quote
Article 1, Section 4: The Wiki

1. The Governor shall hold the responsibility of updating the Mideast regional Wiki for all legislation and occurrences during his or her tenure.

2. If appropriate action is not taken within 30 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Assembly shall choose a member of its body to serve as acting Governor and to assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled the first clause of this section.


I haven't actually realized that until recently, so what are we supposed to do?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on April 05, 2012, 02:14:05 PM
I propose the following constitutional amendment because I consider the current wording a bit harsh and the selection of an acting Governor overly complicated:

Quote
Article 1, Section 4: The Wiki

1. The Governor shall hold the responsibility of updating the Mideast regional Wiki for all legislation and occurrences during his or her tenure.

2. If appropriate action is not taken within 60 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Speaker of the Assembly shall become acting Governor and assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled the first clause of this section.




Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on April 05, 2012, 06:07:45 PM
How long has the governor been away from his duties at this point?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on April 07, 2012, 01:20:13 PM
Mr. Speaker, the last update of the Mideast wiki dates back to October (see, for example, the sections "Statute" or "Assembly"). Even if this comes very late (and I'm sorry I haven't realized that myself earlier), the constitution apparently does not leave us any other choice than to install an acting Governor until the wiki has been updated.

Mr. Speaker, would you like to do that job for a while?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on April 08, 2012, 12:56:24 PM
Well the law is the law. For the record our previous Governor also fell foul of the law and it's an oft forgotten part of the statute. I do have a difficulty in editing the Wiki as it's not something I'm versed in. If anyone can do it you are more than welcome to take over.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on April 08, 2012, 02:46:35 PM
I don't have a wiki account at the moment so I couldn't create or edit any page even if I wanted. I can ask for an account but I don't know how long it takes for me to get permission to work on the wiki. So the first thing we have to do is to make sure we find someone to update the wiki. I think the pages "statute" and "assembly" are especially important - they should be updated first.

Any volunteer who can handle the wiki well?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 10, 2012, 02:31:11 PM
I don't have time at the moment, but I probably could in a couple weeks.  Do you still want to propose this:

I propose the following constitutional amendment because I consider the current wording a bit harsh and the selection of an acting Governor overly complicated:

Quote
Article 1, Section 4: The Wiki

1. The Governor shall hold the responsibility of updating the Mideast regional Wiki for all legislation and occurrences during his or her tenure.

2. If appropriate action is not taken within 60 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Speaker of the Assembly shall become acting Governor and assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled the first clause of this section.





Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on April 10, 2012, 02:52:35 PM
Yes, I'd still like to propose this amendment because it could be helpful in the future.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on April 12, 2012, 04:34:25 AM
Establishment of the Mideast Food Safety and Inspection Service

1. a) The Mideast Food Safety and Inspection Service is hereby established.

1. b) The Mideast Food Safety and Inspection Service is a division of the Mideast Department of Agriculture.

2. a) The Mideast Food Safety and Inspection Service is responsible for assuring the public of a safe and wholesome food supply.

2. b) In order to enforce the purpose of subsection 2. a), the division has the following competences:
 
- the inspection of food establishments
- the inspection of food products
- the performance of specialized laboratory analyses of food products sold or produced in the Mideast.


(Based on the "Florida Division of Food Safety" - http://www.freshfromflorida.com/fs/index.html)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on April 19, 2012, 02:29:47 PM
If anybody has legislation, feel free to introduce it.

Mr. Speaker, two pieces of legislation are waiting in the queue (a constitutional amendment and a bill).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on April 28, 2012, 02:44:16 PM
Well the law is the law. For the record our previous Governor also fell foul of the law and it's an oft forgotten part of the statute. I do have a difficulty in editing the Wiki as it's not something I'm versed in. If anyone can do it you are more than welcome to take over.

No actually, I didn't. The bills I did not include direct links to this forum where bills that did not pass. Almost all previous governors never even mentioned bills that were debated or introduced but never turned into law. So actually, I performed this duty further than most previous Governors have.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on May 29, 2012, 02:32:08 AM
Members of the Assembly,

please take note of Franzl's appointment as Judge of the Mideast Superior Court.

Franzl's appointment still has to be confirmed by the new Assembly. So once all Assemblymembers have been sworn in and a Speaker has been chosen, the confirmation process can begin and Franzl will hopefully be able to take office.

Quote
Section 2: Appointment to the Superior Court

1. In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated by the Governor of the Mideast. In the event that 60 hours elapse from the time of a case being filed in the Mideast Superior Court without such action taken by the Governor, said responsibility shall fall exclusively to the Speaker of the Assembly.
2. The nomination shall then be confirmed by a majority vote of the Assembly.
3. A nomination to the Superior Court, unless terminated early by resignation or recall, or impeachment shall be subject to reconfirmation by majority vote of the Mideastern Assembly every third session of the Assembly after initial confirmation. Should the Assembly fail to take a vote on renomination of the Superior Court Judge during the session in which the judge is normally subject to reconfirmation, it will act as if the Judge is reconfirmed accordingly.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on May 29, 2012, 03:44:30 AM
Happy to answer any questions members of the Assembly might have.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on May 29, 2012, 02:07:39 PM
I nominate Inks for Speaker. Let's get on a vote and get this session moving :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 29, 2012, 06:45:10 PM
I nominate Inks for Speaker. Let's get on a vote and get this session moving :D

Sounds good to me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on May 31, 2012, 05:48:41 PM
And I thought I was inactive.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on May 31, 2012, 10:55:01 PM

I'm just waiting for the vote to get started.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on June 01, 2012, 02:13:01 AM
If Inks doesn't appear someone else should run for Speaker. We need to get the session started.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 01, 2012, 08:33:50 PM
If Inks doesn't appear someone else should run for Speaker. We need to get the session started.

Agreed. Let's give him until the end of the day.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 02, 2012, 12:40:09 AM
So A-Bob would you rather be Speaker or have me do it?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on June 02, 2012, 06:29:44 AM
I think that with your experience both of you are able to do the job of Speaker, although I understand this decision is entirely up the Assembly. My only wish is that the legislative process can get started soon.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 02, 2012, 08:42:29 AM
I nominate A-Bob for speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 02, 2012, 02:39:12 PM
My only concern is I will be gone from Sunday through Friday to kick off the session :/

If you're okay with that then we'll get a move on, but if that's going to hinder a great amount of early progress than let's just have HW be speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on June 02, 2012, 02:59:52 PM
My only concern is I will be gone from Sunday through Friday to kick off the session :/

If you're okay with that then we'll get a move on, but if that's going to hinder a great amount of early progress than let's just have HW be speaker.

I have no clue how many bills you guys have in the pipeline, but the first thing we should do is confirm Franzl as Judge (after a serious questioning time, of course :P). You could, as the new Speaker, just open a confirmation thread for Franzl, and the actual confirmation vote could then take place once you will be back. But it's up to you. I don't want to violate the separation of powers. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 02, 2012, 10:49:48 PM
My only concern is I will be gone from Sunday through Friday to kick off the session :/

If you're okay with that then we'll get a move on, but if that's going to hinder a great amount of early progress than let's just have HW be speaker.

Well either way it will be the same, we can't have a session with me by myself can we?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 03, 2012, 08:32:05 AM
I nominate HW for Speaker. And I take my leave


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on June 03, 2012, 08:47:22 AM
So HW only needs to accept the nomination and will then be the new Speaker as he is supported by the majority of the Assembly. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 03, 2012, 09:34:49 AM
I will accept the Speakership of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on June 04, 2012, 06:36:17 AM
Since the Constitution grants the Governor (along with two citizens and members of the Assembly) the right to introduce pieces of legislation, I'll put forward the following bill:

Quote
Repeal of outdated and unenforceable Acts

The following Acts shall be repealed:

- Mideast Activity Requirements Statute
- Libel and Slander Penalization Act


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on June 08, 2012, 07:52:06 AM
Amendment to the Mideast Sex Crime Statute

The Mideast Sex Crime Statute shall be amended to read:

Section 1

1. All those persons between the ages of 14 years old and 16 years old not incarcerated for crimes shall have the right to consent to engage in oral sex or mutual masturbation with persons between the ages of 14 years old and 18 years old.

2. All those Laws criminalising solitary masturbation are repealed.

Section 2

1. Any sexual conduct with a person under the age of 1416 years by a person over the age of 21 years is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.

2. Any sexual conduct with a person under the age of 12 years by a person over the age of 16 years is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.

3. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 12 and 14 years by a person between the ages of 18 and 21 is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.

4. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 14 and 16 years by a person between the ages of 18 and 21 is defined as statutory rape of the second degree.

5. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 12 and 14 years by a person between the ages of 16 and 18 is defined as statutory rape of the second degree.

6. Any sexual conduct, except oral sex and mutual masturbation, with a person between the ages of 14 and 16 by a person between the ages of 16 and 18 is defined as carnal sexual conduct.

7. The clauses in this Section shall only apply to circumstances where all parties involved in the sexual conduct were willing, even though they are unable under the Law to give informed, legal consent.

Section 3

1. Those guilty of Carnal Sexual Conduct may be punished by up to a year in prison and a fine of up to $2000. If released, a person guilty of this crime shall not be placed on the Sex Offenders Register.

2. Those guilty of Statutory Rape of the Second Degree may be punished by up to fifteen years in prison and a fine of up to $11250. If released, a person guilty of this crime shall be placed on the Sex Offenders Register for up to thirty years.

3. Those guilty of Statutory Rape of the First Degree may be punished by up to life in prison and an unlimited fine. If released, a person guilty of this crime shall be placed on the Sex Offenders Register for life.

Section 4

1. Nothing in Sections 2 and 3 shall be construed to amend in anyway the definitions of, or punishments for, rape where consent by one of the parties involved is not given.

2. Section 3 of the Mideast Pornography and Sex Crime Statute is hereby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: California8429 on June 13, 2012, 02:20:10 PM
Mr. Speaker, can we start threads for these bills?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 13, 2012, 08:12:50 PM
Mr. Speaker, can we start threads for these bills?

I already did for the first one.  I'm just waiting for conversation in it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on June 22, 2012, 04:18:59 AM
Miscellaneous Act

-   The following Act shall be repealed:

Mideast Cell Phone Ban Statute

-   The following Act shall be amended to read:

Mideast Soldier Memorial Act

Because the Mideast Assembly gives thanks for all the Soldiers who have fought for our nation the following will be built in their honor:

1: A Memorial shall be built in the Mideast Capital, College Park to honor our Soldiers who lived in the Mideast.
2: The cost of the Memorial shall be paid by the Mideast Government.
3: The building of the Memorial shall start as soon as the Act is passed and signed by the Mideast Governor.
4: The Memorial shall be named "Clarence Memorial" in honor of the Atlasian citizen and war veteran Clarence.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 25, 2012, 02:48:58 PM
Mr. Speaker, fellow Members: I rise to propose a bill tentatively titled the Bath Salt Drugs Ban Act. Hopefully we can have some worthwhile debate before sending it to appropriate committees for review. Constructive amendments are more than welcome.


Quote
Bath Salt Drugs Ban Act

1. It shall be illegal to

- produce
- sell
- purchase
- consume

bath salt drugs.

2. Violations of this Act shall be punished as follows:

a) The production, sale and purchase for commercial use:
 
- a maximum fine of $50000 or a maximum prison sentence of 5 years.

b) The production, sale, purchase and consumption for private use: 

- a maximum fine of $10000 or a maximum prison sentence of 1 year.

c) In case of a repeated offence, the maximum fines and maximum prison sentences can be doubled.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 26, 2012, 10:46:17 AM
I have a couple of reforms I would like to propose. As I think some could certainly pass and others could be a stretch, I'll begin intrdoucing them individually.

If an Assemblyman could please sponsor this so it can be brought to the floor, I'd greatly appreciate it! :)

Quote
Article III, Section I, Clause 2 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

The Assembly shall be composed of five members, each of whom shall be registered voters residing in the Mideast Region.

I will make my case for this amendment, as well as the others I plan to introduce, in their respective threads. I will also link this in the MCPR thread for discussion. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 26, 2012, 11:08:48 AM
Here's another amendment. We've done a lot of talking about establishing a Lt. Governor. The Governor's poll showed that just over half of Mideast citizens would be willing to support the position, so I think it's certainly worth discussing. Like my other amendment, I will outline what the changes are and why I think we should do this in it's debate thread. This will certainly be a working amendment, as I expect many changes to be made. ;)


Quote
Article I - The Executive
 
Section 1: The Governor
1.The Executive power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Governor.
2.No person shall be Governor who is not a registered voter residing in the Mideast Region.
3.In order to qualify for elective office, a candidate must be registered to vote in the Mideast.
 
Section 2: Gubernatorial Elections
1.Elections to the post of Governor shall be held in the months of January, May, and September. Elections shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the third Thursday of the month and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
 2.Recall votes shall begin within ten days of their accumulating the necessary support and shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on a Thursday and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
 3.The voting system used for Gubernatorial elections shall be determined by Law, however, until such a determination is made, Preferential Voting shall be used.
 
Section 3: Vacancy of the Governorship
1.If the Governorship shall fall vacant, the Lieutenant Governor shall become Governor.
2.If both the Governorship and Lieutenant Governor shall fall vacant then the vacancy shall be filled in a manner specified by Law.
3.In the event that the Governor does not log-in to the Atlas Forum for 36 hours, then the Lieutenant Governor may become acting Speaker.
 
[edit] Section 4: The Wiki
 1.The Governor shall hold the responsibility of updating the Mideast regional Wiki for all legislation and occurrences during his or her tenure.
 2.2. If appropriate action is not taken within 60 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Lieutenant Governor shall become acting Governor and assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled the first clause of this section.

Article III - Legislation and Recall
 
Section 1: The Assembly
1.The legislative power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Mideast Assembly.
2.Elections to the Assembly shall begin between 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the third Thursday of January, March, May, July, September and November and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
3.The method of election shall be PR-STV, as specified in Sections 4 to 17 of the Atlasian Proportional Representation Act (F.L. 21-2), unless the Assembly shall provide otherwise by Law.
4.Vacancies in the Assembly shall be filled in a manner specified by Law, and until such determination is made, by Gubernatorial appointment.
5. The candidate for Assembly who finishes in the most recent election first shall become Lieutenant Governor. Said person may accept or decline the position. Should they decline, the position shall be passed on to the next highest candidate.
6. The Lieutenant Governor shall become Speaker of the Assembly. Said person may accept or decline the position. Should they decline, the Assembly shall vote on a Speaker.

Article IV - Election Regulations
 
[edit] Section 1: Election Procedure
5.The Governor shall administer all elections, propositions, Constitutional Amendments and recalls, unless it be his recall or he shall be unavailable, in which case the Lieutenant Governor shall administer the elections. If he or she is also unavailable, then the Judge shall administer the elections.

 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 26, 2012, 12:28:54 PM
I'll co-sponsor both these amendments.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 26, 2012, 12:32:29 PM
Thank you! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 26, 2012, 07:48:30 PM
Mr. Speaker, fellow Members: I rise to propose a bill tentatively titled the Bath Salt Drugs Ban Act. Hopefully we can have some worthwhile debate before sending it to appropriate committees for review. Constructive amendments are more than welcome.


Quote
Bath Salt Drugs Ban Act

1. It shall be illegal to

- produce
- sell
- purchase
- consume

bath salt drugs.

2. Violations of this Act shall be punished as follows:

a) The production, sale and purchase for commercial use:
 
- a maximum fine of $50000 or a maximum prison sentence of 5 years.

b) The production, sale, purchase and consumption for private use: 

- a maximum fine of $10000 or a maximum prison sentence of 1 year.

c) In case of a repeated offence, the maximum fines and maximum prison sentences can be doubled.

Before this goes to the floor I think it may need to be heavily amended both for grammar and forth sentences as well as some of the finer points in terms of what constitutes commercial and private use, I don't know if its just me but it seems fairly vague.

However the two amendments proposed by Tmth and cosponsored by RogueBeaver I think are ready to go to the floor now and I'll have them up tonight ready to start debate.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on June 27, 2012, 07:52:49 AM
Mr. Speaker, fellow Members: I rise to propose a bill tentatively titled the Bath Salt Drugs Ban Act. Hopefully we can have some worthwhile debate before sending it to appropriate committees for review. Constructive amendments are more than welcome.


Quote
Bath Salt Drugs Ban Act

1. It shall be illegal to

- produce
- sell
- purchase
- consume

bath salt drugs.

2. Violations of this Act shall be punished as follows:

a) The production, sale and purchase for commercial use:
 
- a maximum fine of $50000 or a maximum prison sentence of 5 years.

b) The production, sale, purchase and consumption for private use: 

- a maximum fine of $10000 or a maximum prison sentence of 1 year.

c) In case of a repeated offence, the maximum fines and maximum prison sentences can be doubled.

Before this goes to the floor I think it may need to be heavily amended both for grammar and forth sentences as well as some of the finer points in terms of what constitutes commercial and private use, I don't know if its just me but it seems fairly vague.

However the two amendments proposed by Tmth and cosponsored by RogueBeaver I think are ready to go to the floor now and I'll have them up tonight ready to start debate.

We're working on an improved version of this bill. Above all, the title should be amended. :P


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 27, 2012, 08:02:09 AM
Mr. Speaker, fellow Members: I rise to propose a bill tentatively titled the Bath Salt Drugs Ban Act. Hopefully we can have some worthwhile debate before sending it to appropriate committees for review. Constructive amendments are more than welcome.


Quote
Bath Salt Drugs Ban Act

1. It shall be illegal to

- produce
- sell
- purchase
- consume

bath salt drugs.

2. Violations of this Act shall be punished as follows:

a) The production, sale and purchase for commercial use:
 
- a maximum fine of $50000 or a maximum prison sentence of 5 years.

b) The production, sale, purchase and consumption for private use: 

- a maximum fine of $10000 or a maximum prison sentence of 1 year.

c) In case of a repeated offence, the maximum fines and maximum prison sentences can be doubled.

Before this goes to the floor I think it may need to be heavily amended both for grammar and forth sentences as well as some of the finer points in terms of what constitutes commercial and private use, I don't know if its just me but it seems fairly vague.

However the two amendments proposed by Tmth and cosponsored by RogueBeaver I think are ready to go to the floor now and I'll have them up tonight ready to start debate.

We're working on an improved version of this bill. Above all, the title should be amended. :P

Sounds good.  If you'd like any input from me simply PM me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on June 27, 2012, 06:48:06 PM
Can we get "MA:" added to the beginning of our threads (per the statute) so it's easier to differentiate what threads are ours?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on June 27, 2012, 07:11:44 PM
Can we get "MA:" added to the beginning of our threads (per the statute) so it's easier to differentiate what threads are ours?

Oh of course.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on June 27, 2012, 07:13:52 PM
Can we get "MA:" added to the beginning of our threads (per the statute) so it's easier to differentiate what threads are ours?

Oh of course.

Thanks.  It's not bad with the bills that have "Mideast" in the name, but I almost missed the Miscellanious Act (or whatever it's called).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tpfkaw on June 28, 2012, 08:41:02 AM
Before you get too far along with your latest moral panic, may I point out: http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/06/27/medical-examiner-causeway-cannibal-not-high-on-bath-salts/


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on July 02, 2012, 04:11:17 AM
I announced in the thread which deals with the Mideast Sex Crime Statute that I would like to withdraw my bill and introduce a better amendment. I took the feedback from the honorable Assemblymembers into account, so I hope this is a good basis for discussion.

Quote
Revised Amendment of the Mideast Sex Crime Statute

Section 1

1. All those persons between the ages of 14 years old and 16 years old not incarcerated for crimes shall have the right to consent to engage in oral sex or mutual masturbation with persons between the ages of 14 years old and 18 years old.

2. All those Laws criminalising solitary masturbation are repealed.

Section 2

1. Any sexual conduct with a person under the age of 14 years by a person over the age of 21 years is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.
2. Any sexual conduct with a person under the age of 12 years by a person over the age of 18 years 16 years is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.
3. Any sexual conduct with a person under the age of 10 years by a person over the age of 16 years is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.
4.3. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 14 and 16 years by a person over the age of 21 years is defined as statutory rape of the second degree.
5. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 10 and 12 years by a person between the ages of 16 and 18 years is defined as statutory rape of the second degree.
6.4. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 12 and 14 years by a person between the ages of 18 and 21 is defined as statutory rape of the second degree.
7.5. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 14 and 1615 years by a person between the ages of 18 and 21 is defined as carnal sexual conduct.
8.6. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 12 and 14 years by a person between the ages of 1617 and 18 is defined as carnal sexual conduct.
9.7. Any sexual conduct, except oral sex and mutual masturbation, with a person between the ages of 14 and 1615 by a person between the ages of 1617 and 18 is defined as carnal sexual conduct.
10.8. The clauses in this Section shall only apply to circumstances where all parties involved in the sexual conduct were willing, even though they are unable under the Law to give informed, legal consent.

Section 3

1. Those guilty of Carnal Sexual Conduct may be punished by up to six months in prison and a fine of up to $1000. If released, a person guilty of this crime shall not be placed on the Sex Offenders Register.
2. Those guilty of Statutory Rape of the Second Degree may be punished by up to ten years in prison and a fine of up to $7500. If released a person guilty of this crime shall be placed on the Sex Offenders Register for up to twenty years.
3. Those guilty of Statutory Rape of the First Degree may be punished by up to life in prison and an unlimited fine. If released, a person guilty of this crime shall be placed on the Sex Offenders Register for life

Section 4

1. Nothing in Sections 2 and 3 shall be construed to amend in anyway the definitions of, or punishments for, rape where consent by one of the parties involved is not given.
2. Section 3 of the Mideast Pornography and Sex Crime Statute is hereby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 02, 2012, 02:48:01 PM
Thank you.  That is MUCH easier to follow.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on July 05, 2012, 08:33:19 AM
Amendment of the Mideast Time of Alcohol Sales Statute

The Mideast Time of Alcohol Sales Statute shall be amended to read:

1. Alcoholic beverages may be sold by licensed retailers, where licenses shall be issued to retailers according to rules and regulations promulgated by local jurisdictions.

2. All licenses shall allow the sale of alcohol on any day of the year.

3. All licenses for sale of alcohol to be consumed off the retailer's premises shall allow the sale of alcohol between 0600 local time and midnight local time. Individual local jurisdictions may extend hours for sale to part or whole of midnight local time to 0600 local time. All licenses for the sale of alcohol shall allow the sale of alcohol 24 hours a day.

4. All licenses for sale of alcohol to be consumed on the retailer's premises shall allow for the sale of alcohol at any time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: afleitch on July 06, 2012, 10:47:01 AM
Amendment of the Mideast Time of Alcohol Sales Statute

The Mideast Time of Alcohol Sales Statute shall be amended to read:

1. Alcoholic beverages may be sold by licensed retailers, where licenses shall be issued to retailers according to rules and regulations promulgated by local jurisdictions.

2. All licenses shall allow the sale of alcohol on any day of the year.

3. All licenses for sale of alcohol to be consumed off the retailer's premises shall allow the sale of alcohol between 0600 local time and midnight local time. Individual local jurisdictions may extend hours for sale to part or whole of midnight local time to 0600 local time. All licenses for the sale of alcohol shall allow the sale of alcohol 24 hours a day.

4. All licenses for sale of alcohol to be consumed on the retailer's premises shall allow for the sale of alcohol at any time.


Doesn't that centralise licensing laws taking power away from local jurisdictions over sale hours? Never had you down for someone who supports 24hr drinking :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on July 06, 2012, 10:59:35 AM
Amendment of the Mideast Time of Alcohol Sales Statute

The Mideast Time of Alcohol Sales Statute shall be amended to read:

1. Alcoholic beverages may be sold by licensed retailers, where licenses shall be issued to retailers according to rules and regulations promulgated by local jurisdictions.

2. All licenses shall allow the sale of alcohol on any day of the year.

3. All licenses for sale of alcohol to be consumed off the retailer's premises shall allow the sale of alcohol between 0600 local time and midnight local time. Individual local jurisdictions may extend hours for sale to part or whole of midnight local time to 0600 local time. All licenses for the sale of alcohol shall allow the sale of alcohol 24 hours a day.

4. All licenses for sale of alcohol to be consumed on the retailer's premises shall allow for the sale of alcohol at any time.


Doesn't that centralise licensing laws taking power away from local jurisdictions over sale hours? Never had you down for someone who supports 24hr drinking :)

Yes, it does take away these powers from local jurisdictions over sale hours. But the local jurisdictions still retain their rights to grant licenses to whomever they think should be allowed to get a license.
As for the second point you mentioned, I just don't think a ban on alcohol sales between midnight and 6 o'clock in the morning really achieves much. But I'll say more on this issue once the bill is debated in the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on July 11, 2012, 05:51:47 AM
And why isn't there a ban on Sunday sales within this bill?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on July 11, 2012, 07:33:02 AM
Why should there be laws on drinking at all?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 11, 2012, 11:54:47 PM
Lets keep debate/discussion out of this thread.  Also, any of the signed bills need to have their status updated to "(Statute)".


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on July 19, 2012, 09:46:58 PM
Governmental Nepotism Prohibition Act

Definitions
1. "Relative means any of the following:
a. A spouse
b. A parent or stepparent
c. A child or stepchild
d. A brother, sister, stepbrother, or stepsister
e. A niece or nephew
f. An aunt or uncle
g. A daughter-in-law or son-in-law
h. A first or second cousin

Section 1
1. An individual who is employed by a regional agency is prohibited from being:
 a. Employed in the same agency in which the individual's relative is the appointing or hiring authority.
 b. Placed in the direct line of supervision of a relative.
2. Any job assignment that existed before the passage of this law may be continued.
3. Any person within an agency who violates this act may be subject to job dismissal.



I realize this is a very rough draft and may need some amendments - that's part of the intent. The Assembly is almost dead, despite our high regional activity over on the Elections board, and this is one of several attempts I will be making to introduce bills to try and revitalize the Assembly a bit.

I'd appreciate if another citizen or Assemblymen would sign on so this can be debated. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on July 20, 2012, 04:08:31 PM
Lets keep debate/discussion out of this thread.  Also, any of the signed bills need to have their status updated to "(Statute)".

Many states (Indiana for one) have a ban on Sunday sales. My question was will the state limits be respected in the bill in question?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 25, 2012, 02:26:58 AM
As we only have 2 days left in this session, I suggest that we hold off any new business and have these reintroduced in the new session.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on July 27, 2012, 10:24:40 AM
Let the bloodbath new session begin! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on July 27, 2012, 01:41:01 PM
Article I - The Executive
 
Section 1: The Governor
1.The Executive power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Governor.
2.No person shall be Governor who is not a registered voter residing in the Mideast Region.
3.In order to qualify for elective office, a candidate must be registered to vote in the Mideast.
 
Section 2: Gubernatorial Elections
1.Elections to the post of Governor shall be held in the months of January, May, and September. Elections shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the third Thursday of the month and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
 2.Recall votes shall begin within ten days of their accumulating the necessary support and shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on a Thursday and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
 3.The voting system used for Gubernatorial elections shall be determined by Law, however, until such a determination is made, Preferential Voting shall be used.
 
Section 3: Vacancy of the Governorship
1.If the Governorship shall fall vacant, the Lieutenant Governor shall become Governor.
2.If both the Governorship and Lieutenant Governor shall fall vacant then the vacancy shall be filled in a manner specified by Law.
3.In the event that the Governor does not log-in to the Atlas Forum for 36 hours, then the Lieutenant Governor may become acting Speaker.
 
[edit] Section 4: The Wiki
 1.The Governor shall hold the responsibility of updating the Mideast regional Wiki for all legislation and occurrences during his or her tenure.
 2.2. If appropriate action is not taken within 60 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Lieutenant Governor shall become acting Governor and assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled the first clause of this section.

Article III - Legislation and Recall
 
Section 1: The Assembly
1.The legislative power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Mideast Assembly.
2.Elections to the Assembly shall begin between 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the third Thursday of January, March, May, July, September and November and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
3.The method of election shall be PR-STV, as specified in Sections 4 to 17 of the Atlasian Proportional Representation Act (F.L. 21-2), unless the Assembly shall provide otherwise by Law.
4.Vacancies in the Assembly shall be filled in a manner specified by Law, and until such determination is made, by Gubernatorial appointment.
5. The candidate for Assembly who finishes in the most recent election first shall become Lieutenant Governor. Said person may accept or decline the position. Should they decline, the position shall be passed on to the next highest candidate.
6. The Lieutenant Governor shall become Speaker of the Assembly. Said person may accept or decline the position. Should they decline, the Assembly shall vote on a Speaker.

Article IV - Election Regulations
 
[edit] Section 1: Election Procedure
5.The Governor shall administer all elections, propositions, Constitutional Amendments and recalls, unless it be his recall or he shall be unavailable, in which case the Lieutenant Governor shall administer the elections. If he or she is also unavailable, then the Judge shall administer the elections.

On behalf of citizen tmthforu94 this is hereby reintroduced
Sponsored by JCL


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on July 27, 2012, 01:49:09 PM
Amendment to Article III of the Mideast Constitution

Article III, Section I, Clause 2 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

The Assembly shall be composed of five members, each of whom shall be registered voters residing in the Mideast Region.

Sponsored by JCL on behalf of citizen tmthforu94


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on July 27, 2012, 02:10:56 PM
Honouring Veterans of Foreign Conflict Act

Section 1

1) WHEREAS the Mideast is home to many veterans of foreign conflict.
2) NOTING these veterans deserve endless praise for risking their lives to defend Atlasia.
3) SALUTING all Atlasian veterans of foreign conflict, regardless of regional residence.
4) HEREBY denotes August as Veteran's Month.
5) PROCLAIMING that because veterans have risked their lives, which is more valuable than anything material, are entitled to 50% discounts at all restaurants, movie theaters and similar places of business throughout the month of August if they arrive in their military attire.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on July 27, 2012, 02:52:11 PM

Quote
Revised Amendment of the Mideast Sex Crime Statute

Section 1

1. All those persons between the ages of 14 years old and 16 years old not incarcerated for crimes shall have the right to consent to engage in oral sex or mutual masturbation with persons between the ages of 14 years old and 18 years old.

2. All those Laws criminalising solitary masturbation are repealed.

Section 2

1. Any sexual conduct with a person under the age of 14 years by a person over the age of 21 years is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.
2. Any sexual conduct with a person under the age of 12 years by a person over the age of 18 years 16 years is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.
3. Any sexual conduct with a person under the age of 10 years by a person over the age of 16 years is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.
4.3. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 14 and 16 years by a person over the age of 21 years is defined as statutory rape of the second degree.
5. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 10 and 12 years by a person between the ages of 16 and 18 years is defined as statutory rape of the second degree.
6.4. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 12 and 14 years by a person between the ages of 18 and 21 is defined as statutory rape of the second degree.
7.5. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 14 and 1615 years by a person between the ages of 18 and 21 is defined as carnal sexual conduct.
8.6. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 12 and 14 years by a person between the ages of 1617 and 18 is defined as carnal sexual conduct.
9.7. Any sexual conduct, except oral sex and mutual masturbation, with a person between the ages of 14 and 1615 by a person between the ages of 1617 and 18 is defined as carnal sexual conduct.
10.8. The clauses in this Section shall only apply to circumstances where all parties involved in the sexual conduct were willing, even though they are unable under the Law to give informed, legal consent.

Section 3

1. Those guilty of Carnal Sexual Conduct may be punished by up to six months in prison and a fine of up to $1000. If released, a person guilty of this crime shall not be placed on the Sex Offenders Register.
2. Those guilty of Statutory Rape of the Second Degree may be punished by up to ten years in prison and a fine of up to $7500. If released a person guilty of this crime shall be placed on the Sex Offenders Register for up to twenty years.
3. Those guilty of Statutory Rape of the First Degree may be punished by up to life in prison and an unlimited fine. If released, a person guilty of this crime shall be placed on the Sex Offenders Register for life

Section 4

1. Nothing in Sections 2 and 3 shall be construed to amend in anyway the definitions of, or punishments for, rape where consent by one of the parties involved is not given.
2. Section 3 of the Mideast Pornography and Sex Crime Statute is hereby repealed.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on July 27, 2012, 02:53:05 PM
Quote
Amendment of the Mideast Time of Alcohol Sales Statute

The Mideast Time of Alcohol Sales Statute shall be amended to read:

1. Alcoholic beverages may be sold by licensed retailers, where licenses shall be issued to retailers according to rules and regulations promulgated by local jurisdictions.

2. All licenses shall allow the sale of alcohol on any day of the year.

3. All licenses for sale of alcohol to be consumed off the retailer's premises shall allow the sale of alcohol between 0600 local time and midnight local time. Individual local jurisdictions may extend hours for sale to part or whole of midnight local time to 0600 local time. All licenses for the sale of alcohol shall allow the sale of alcohol 24 hours a day.

4. All licenses for sale of alcohol to be consumed on the retailer's premises shall allow for the sale of alcohol at any time.

____________________________________________________________________________________

All these bills should keep us busy for a while. ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on July 27, 2012, 02:57:35 PM
Quote
Mideast Budget 2012

Revenue:

Revenue: Amount
Income Taxes: $35.3 B
Social Insurance Taxes: $24.4 B
"Ad Valorum" Taxes: $108.5 B
Fees: $43.3 B
Business and Other: $70.5 B
TOTAL: $282 B


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Budget: $314.01 billion
Spending ($232.71 billion)

*(No change) does NOT denote changing in spending levels from RL to this budget. It's really there for the next budget so we can copy this first budget, change the numbers, and then off to the side put the positive/negative change since the preceeding budget.

Energy ($5.75  billion)
$3 Billion ...... Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so.
$1 Billion  ...... Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion  ...... Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$0.5 Billion  ...... Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$0.25 Billion  ...... Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy)

Natural resources and environment ($5.21 billion)
$2.61 billion ...... Water resources (No Change)
$0.57 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change)
$0.5 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change)

Agriculture ($4.04 billion)
$2.95 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$1.09 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change)

Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($1.95 billion)
$0.34 billion ..... Housing Loan Programs (No Change)
$0.02 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$1.36 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change)
$0.23 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change)

Transportation ($23.25 billion)
$9.00 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$4.00 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.25 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$1.05 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.45 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)
$6.45 billion ..... Non-Highway Roads (No Change)

Community and regional development ($4.39 billion)
$2.50 billion ...... Community development (No Change)
$0.96 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change)
$0.93 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education ($69.32 billion)
$41.32 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$20.00 billion ..... Higher education (No Change)
$8.00 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change)

Training, labor and unemployment ($9.37 billion)
$4.34 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change)
$0.2 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change)
$4.83 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Health Spending ($14.08 billion)
$2.23 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change)
$0.70 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change)
$8.45 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change)
$0.20 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change)

Civilian Retirement ($41.50 billion)
$1.0 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change)
$29.50 billion ..... Mideast employee retirement and disability (No Change)
$11.00 billion ...... Mideast employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)

Aid to Low-Income Families ($25.00 billion)
$6.01 billion ..... Housing assistance (No Change)
$4.33 billion ..... Food stamps (No Change)
$2.3 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches) (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Family support payments (TANF) (No Change)
$7.01 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$0.85 billion ..... Child tax credit (No Change)
$0.99 billion ....... Child care funds (No Change)
$0.18 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families (No Change)

General Family Support ($5.39 billion)
$1.32 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance (No Change)
$0.33 billion ...... Child support and family support programs (No Change)
$3.74 billion ..... Social and family services (No Change)

Administration of justice ($20.45 billion)
$11.35 billion ..... Regional law enforcement and security (No Change)
$5.21 billion ..... Regional litigation and judicial activities (No Change)
$2.89 billion ...... Regional prison system (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change)

General government administration ($3.01 billion)
$0.31 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change)
$0.10 billion ...... Executive office programs (No Change)
$2.05 billion ....... Fiscal operations (No Change)
$0.55 billion ...... Other general government (No Change)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax Expenditures and Tax Cuts ($81.3 billion)

Corporate Tax Breaks ($11.03 billion)
$7.00 billion ...... R&D Tax Breaks (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Energy, Mining and Timber Tax Breaks (No Change)
$2.03 billion ...... Tax Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.99 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change)

Personal Business & Investment Benefits ($4.69 billion)
$3.80 billion ..... Tax-Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Enterprise & Empowerment Zones and New Markets credit (No Change)
$0.33 billion ....... Other personal investment tax breaks (No Change)

Pension & Retirement Deductions ($26.08 billion)
$10.05 billion ..... Employer-paid Pensions (No Change)
$7.05 billion ..... 401Ks & Keogh plans (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... IRAs (No Change)
$6.62 billion ..... Group and personal life insurance benefits (No Change)
$0.86 billion ...... Other retirement benefits (No Change)

Health Insurance Tax Benefits ($12.14 billion)
$5.30 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... Self-employed medical insurance premiums (No Change)
$4.70 billion ...... Medical Savings/Health Savings Accounts (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Deductibility of medical expenses (No Change)

Housing tax benefits ($12.93 billion)
$5.50 billion ..... Mortgage Interest (No Change)
$3.01 billion ..... Deductibility of property taxes on homes (No Change)
$3.51 billion ..... Exclusion of net imputed rental income on owner-occupied homes (No Change)
$0.91 billion ...... Housing bonds & low-income housing investments (No Change)

Other individual deductions and exemptions ($14.43 billion)
$3.62 billion ..... Charitable contributions (No Change)
$1.91 billion ..... Local taxes (w/o home property) (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Workmen's compensation (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Education deductions and credits (No Change)
$1.31 billion ..... Child credit (No Change)
$1.38 billion ...... Child care credits and deductions (No Change)
$0.46 billion ......... Deduction for the blind and elderly (No Change)
$0.41 billion ...... Employee parking and transit expenses (No Change)
$0.35 billion ...... Adoption and foster care tax credits (No Change)
$0.80 billion ...... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)- revenue loss component (No Change)
$0.30 billion ...... Other fringe benefits (No Change)
----------

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000
1%    $13,001 - $40,000
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000
2.2%    $100,001 - $180,000
2.7%    $180,001 - $300,000
3.25%    $300,001 - $750,000
4%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
5%    $2,750,001- $9,999,999
6.5%   $10,000,000+

Corporate Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $50,000
0.5%    $50,001 - $75,000
1%    $75,001 - $125,000
1.5%    $125,001 - $350,000
2%    $350,001 - $1,000,000
2.5%    $1,000,001 - $10,000,000
3.25%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

Sales Tax Rate: 5.7% (Groceries, prescription drugs exempt)

Excise Taxes:

Gas: 7 cents/gallon (10 cents/gallon for diesel).

Cigarettes: $1.60 per pack.
Other Tobacco Products: 55% Manufactures Price
Distilled Spirits: $2.70 per gallon
Wine: $0.30 per gallon
Beer: $0.20 per gallon
Marijuana: 25% sales tax

Projected Deficit: $32.01 B


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 27, 2012, 06:54:37 PM
I like the enthusiasm, but let's slow down here.  As Dean of the Assembly, I call this new session of the Assembly to order.  Please swear in in the appropriate thread.

Nominations are now open for Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on July 27, 2012, 08:17:41 PM
I nominate Inks for speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on July 27, 2012, 10:06:24 PM

Seconded.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 28, 2012, 12:46:23 AM
I will accept the nomination.  Nominations will be open for 24-hours (I meant to post that when I posted the first post).  (Although tomorrow is a special event at work, so I'll be home late - as long as any nominations are in by 9:00 or so, they'll be accepted).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 28, 2012, 08:00:38 PM
Seeing no other nominations, I ask unanimous consent that Inks.LWC be elected Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on July 28, 2012, 08:55:47 PM
Seeing no other nominations, I ask unanimous consent that Inks.LWC be elected Speaker of the Assembly.

Seconded.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 29, 2012, 07:00:30 PM
Seeing no objections, Inks.LWC is elected Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on July 30, 2012, 08:46:24 PM
I support the amendment of the Mideast Time of Sale Alcohol Statute.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on July 31, 2012, 08:41:35 AM
Welfare Responsibility Act

Section 1

1. In order to receive welfare or food stamps in the Mideast Region, an applicant must submit to a drug test.

2. If it is determined that the applicant has no history of narcotic or alcohol addiction, the applicant shall be cleared to receive welfare and/or food stamps within the Mideast Region.

3. If it is determined that the applicant has any narcotic and/or alcohol in their system at the time of their application, they shall be barred from receiving welfare or food stamps in the Mideast Region, and instead shall be offered counselling in order to kick their habit and begin to receive welfare.

4. "Narcotic" shall be defined as any inhalant, hallucinogens and any non-prescription depressants, anti-depressants, stimulants and opiates.

Section 2

1) One may receive welfare for a maximum of one calendar year before they are put on review by the state in which they reside.

2) If it is determined that the welfare recipient is actively searching for work and, however, is unable to find work, they shall be cleared to continue receiving welfare for another calendar year.

3) If it is determined that the welfare recipient is not actively searching for work, they shall be denied welfare for the next calendar year and instead will be placed in a state Government-sponsored workforce training class.

4) Upon completion of the class, the individual shall be required to submit job applications to a minimum of five (5) companies. If all five companies deny the application, the individual shall be granted continuation of welfare.

Section 3

1) Any individual caught abusing or cheating the welfare system shall be sentenced to six (6) months in prison in the state where they reside. They shall also have to pay a fine of $1000.

2) "Abuse" shall be defined as submitting false DNA samples for a drug test, lying about job applications or skipping workforce training classes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Napoleon on August 01, 2012, 11:43:29 AM
I invite the members of this body to attend my open press conference.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on August 02, 2012, 01:41:27 PM
Welfare Responsibility Act

Section 1

1. In order to receive welfare or food stamps in the Mideast Region, an applicant must submit to a drug test.

2. If it is determined that the applicant has no history of narcotic or alcohol addiction, the applicant shall be cleared to receive welfare and/or food stamps within the Mideast Region.

3. If it is determined that the applicant has any narcotic and/or alcohol in their system at the time of their application, they shall be barred from receiving welfare or food stamps in the Mideast Region, and instead shall be offered counselling in order to kick their habit and begin to receive welfare.

4. "Narcotic" shall be defined as any inhalant, hallucinogens and any non-prescription depressants, anti-depressants, stimulants and opiates.

Section 2

1) One may receive welfare for a maximum of one calendar year before they are put on review by the state in which they reside.

2) If it is determined that the welfare recipient is actively searching for work and, however, is unable to find work, they shall be cleared to continue receiving welfare for another calendar year.

3) If it is determined that the welfare recipient is not actively searching for work, they shall be denied welfare for the next calendar year and instead will be placed in a state Government-sponsored workforce training class.

4) Upon completion of the class, the individual shall be required to submit job applications to a minimum of five (5) companies. If all five companies deny the application, the individual shall be granted continuation of welfare.

Section 3

1) Any individual caught abusing or cheating the welfare system shall be sentenced to six (6) months in prison in the state where they reside. They shall also have to pay a fine of $1000.

2) "Abuse" shall be defined as submitting false DNA samples for a drug test, lying about job applications or skipping workforce training classes.
Seconded.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on August 02, 2012, 05:52:20 PM
Welfare Responsibility Act

Section 1

1. In order to receive welfare or food stamps in the Mideast Region, an applicant must submit to a drug test.

2. If it is determined that the applicant has no history of narcotic or alcohol addiction, the applicant shall be cleared to receive welfare and/or food stamps within the Mideast Region.

3. If it is determined that the applicant has any narcotic and/or alcohol in their system at the time of their application, they shall be barred from receiving welfare or food stamps in the Mideast Region, and instead shall be offered counselling in order to kick their habit and begin to receive welfare.

4. "Narcotic" shall be defined as any inhalant, hallucinogens and any non-prescription depressants, anti-depressants, stimulants and opiates.

Section 2

1) One may receive welfare for a maximum of one calendar year before they are put on review by the state in which they reside.

2) If it is determined that the welfare recipient is actively searching for work and, however, is unable to find work, they shall be cleared to continue receiving welfare for another calendar year.

3) If it is determined that the welfare recipient is not actively searching for work, they shall be denied welfare for the next calendar year and instead will be placed in a state Government-sponsored workforce training class.

4) Upon completion of the class, the individual shall be required to submit job applications to a minimum of five (5) companies. If all five companies deny the application, the individual shall be granted continuation of welfare.

Section 3

1) Any individual caught abusing or cheating the welfare system shall be sentenced to six (6) months in prison in the state where they reside. They shall also have to pay a fine of $1000.

2) "Abuse" shall be defined as submitting false DNA samples for a drug test, lying about job applications or skipping workforce training classes.
Seconded.
Thirded


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on August 05, 2012, 05:29:11 PM
Mideast Internet Freedom Act

Section 1

1. Neither the Government of the Mideast Region nor any individual state Government shall have any right to infringe an individual citizen's right to freely use the internet.

2. Usage of the internet shall be defined as browsing the internet using a local connection, wi-fi or any other form of internet connection.

3. The regional or state Government shall not censor the internet for any means without putting the resolution to a vote before the public.

4. If a censorship vote is passed, the regional or state Government may only censor what had been made explicitly clear in the referendum.

5. The Government, be it state or regional, may reserve the right to moderate some websites reserved specifically for adults.

6. Moderation refers to placing warnings on pornographic websites, deleting gruesome content on pornographic websites and actively protecting citizens from computer viruses.

Section 2

1. The Government, be it state or regional, may not infringe upon individual websites' terms of service and may not overtake websites and moderate content without prior notification.

2. The Government, be it state or regional, may not access any social networking or email account of any private citizen without a warrant previously signed by a judge.

3. Unapproved access to social networking or email accounts by the Government are hereby unlawful and the victimized citizen may reserve the right to sue the Government for information theft and larceny.

4. Any lawsuit brought before the Government, be it state or regional, will be heard by the regional court.

5. The regional Government is forbidden to levy taxes on individual purchases through the internet.

6. Taxes may be levied by the individual states in which the purchase is made, however these taxes shall not exceed 5% of the total purchase.

Section 3

1. If it is found that the Government, be it state or regional, has infringed upon the internet rights of a private citizen, the Government shall pay a cash sum to the victimized citizen.

2. No Government commission may be created for the sole intent to moderate the internet.

3. Any Government commission created that intends to take any power over the internet must first be approved by a vote put before the citizens of the Mideast.

4. Any commission created without a vote shall be rendered null and void and any operations undergone by the commission shall be reversed and those involved shall be arrested in violation of this law.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on August 06, 2012, 01:48:11 PM
Mideast Internet Freedom Act

Section 1

1. Neither the Government of the Mideast Region nor any individual state Government shall have any right to infringe an individual citizen's right to freely use the internet.

2. Usage of the internet shall be defined as browsing the internet using a local connection, wi-fi or any other form of internet connection.

3. The regional or state Government shall not censor the internet for any means without putting the resolution to a vote before the public.

4. If a censorship vote is passed, the regional or state Government may only censor what had been made explicitly clear in the referendum.

5. The Government, be it state or regional, may reserve the right to moderate some websites reserved specifically for adults.

6. Moderation refers to placing warnings on pornographic websites, deleting gruesome content on pornographic websites and actively protecting citizens from computer viruses.

Section 2

1. The Government, be it state or regional, may not infringe upon individual websites' terms of service and may not overtake websites and moderate content without prior notification.

2. The Government, be it state or regional, may not access any social networking or email account of any private citizen without a warrant previously signed by a judge.

3. Unapproved access to social networking or email accounts by the Government are hereby unlawful and the victimized citizen may reserve the right to sue the Government for information theft and larceny.

4. Any lawsuit brought before the Government, be it state or regional, will be heard by the regional court.

5. The regional Government is forbidden to levy taxes on individual purchases through the internet.

6. Taxes may be levied by the individual states in which the purchase is made, however these taxes shall not exceed 5% of the total purchase.

Section 3

1. If it is found that the Government, be it state or regional, has infringed upon the internet rights of a private citizen, the Government shall pay a cash sum to the victimized citizen.

2. No Government commission may be created for the sole intent to moderate the internet.

3. Any Government commission created that intends to take any power over the internet must first be approved by a vote put before the citizens of the Mideast.

4. Any commission created without a vote shall be rendered null and void and any operations undergone by the commission shall be reversed and those involved shall be arrested in violation of this law.
Seconded.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 07, 2012, 05:22:41 PM
During a period of open discussion, a visibly frustrated Speaker Inks.LWC walks up to his chair at the front of the Assembly.

Fellow Assemblymen and citizens of the Mideast, today this Assembly passed two very short-sighted amendments.  As a life-long resident of the Mideast, and someone who has seen this region go through many cycles of activity and inactivity, I am deeply disappointed that my advice was ignored.  This assembly has now passed two amendments to our Constitution that will be on the ballot: one that will place back the Lt. Governorship and strip this Assembly of its ability to choose its leader, and another that will raise the size of the Assembly to 5 members (at least until 2014).

These amendments are the result of short-sightedness from some of my colleagues (for whom I still have much respect and generally agree with) and a select few influential citizens of this region.

I urge the citizens of this region to reject these amendments, at least for the time being.  Before we begin growing the size of our government, we should ensure that we have active members in our government.  I should also point out that these two votes were the first time that all five of our Assembly members actually engaged in voting in the Assembly.

I am deeply disappointed that these amendments made it out of this Assembly, but I have faith and confidence in the citizens of this region to reject these shortsighted amendments.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on August 07, 2012, 07:20:59 PM
Let's let the people decide.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on August 09, 2012, 11:18:26 AM
Quote
Repeal of the Mideast Welfare Drug Screening Act

The Mideast Welfare Drug Screening Act shall be repealed.

Comment: Since the new Welfare Responsibility Act has become law, the old statute is obsolete.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on August 09, 2012, 07:01:33 PM
Quote
Repeal of the Mideast Welfare Drug Screening Act

The Mideast Welfare Drug Screening Act shall be repealed.

Comment: Since the new Welfare Responsibility Act has become law, the old statute is obsolete.
Is this an actual bill?  If so, I second it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on August 09, 2012, 07:02:40 PM
During a period of open discussion, a visibly frustrated Speaker Inks.LWC walks up to his chair at the front of the Assembly.

Fellow Assemblymen and citizens of the Mideast, today this Assembly passed two very short-sighted amendments.  As a life-long resident of the Mideast, and someone who has seen this region go through many cycles of activity and inactivity, I am deeply disappointed that my advice was ignored.  This assembly has now passed two amendments to our Constitution that will be on the ballot: one that will place back the Lt. Governorship and strip this Assembly of its ability to choose its leader, and another that will raise the size of the Assembly to 5 members (at least until 2014).

These amendments are the result of short-sightedness from some of my colleagues (for whom I still have much respect and generally agree with) and a select few influential citizens of this region.

I urge the citizens of this region to reject these amendments, at least for the time being.  Before we begin growing the size of our government, we should ensure that we have active members in our government.  I should also point out that these two votes were the first time that all five of our Assembly members actually engaged in voting in the Assembly.

I am deeply disappointed that these amendments made it out of this Assembly, but I have faith and confidence in the citizens of this region to reject these shortsighted amendments.
I can see both sides here.  But I agree, let the people decide.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 09, 2012, 07:09:06 PM
Didn't the people already decide in January?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: HappyWarrior on August 09, 2012, 10:54:05 PM
Mideast College Athletic Act

1.  All athletic programs in the Mideast region will in the future devote a minimum of 50% of their profits from merchandise to their educational programs.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on August 10, 2012, 09:35:22 AM
Mideast College Athletic Act

1.  All athletic programs in the Mideast region will in the future devote a minimum of 50% of their profits from merchandise to their educational programs.
Seconded.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on August 14, 2012, 09:09:31 AM
Quote
Amendment to the Mideast Internet Freedom Act
Section 1, Clause 6 shall be amended to read:

6. Moderation refers to placing warnings on pornographic websites, deleting gruesome content on pornographic websites, closing down websites with criminal content and actively protecting citizens from computer viruses.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on August 15, 2012, 12:15:00 AM
Common Courtesy While Driving Act

1. It is hereby prohibited to create excessive noise or havoc whilst driving in the Mideast Region.

2. "Excessive noise or havoc" shall be defined as excessively honking one's car horn, intimidating drivers, using profane language that is audible to other motorists and/or turning on high beams when it is not necessary to do so.

3. The punishment for committing any of these acts shall be a fine of $500 (five hundred dollars) and one week of anger management classes.

4. While each case will be handled individually, multiple violations of this law may result in suspension of driving privileges and/or revocation of one's license. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on August 15, 2012, 01:30:58 PM
Common Courtesy While Driving Act

1. It is hereby prohibited to create excessive noise or havoc whilst driving in the Mideast Region.

2. "Excessive noise or havoc" shall be defined as excessively honking one's car horn, intimidating drivers, using profane language that is audible to other motorists and/or turning on high beams when it is not necessary to do so.

3. The punishment for committing any of these acts shall be a fine of $500 (five hundred dollars) and one week of anger management classes.

4. While each case will be handled individually, multiple violations of this law may result in suspension of driving privileges and/or revocation of one's license. 
Seconded, although I'm not sure whether I'll actually support it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on August 16, 2012, 04:33:44 PM
You don't actually have to second bills.  I thought you guys were just doing that to voice support for them...


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on August 20, 2012, 09:00:45 PM
Underage Labour Guidelines Act of 2012

Section 1

1. If a company, business or corporation based in Mideast Region hires an employee under the age of 18 (eighteen) they must adhere to the following guidelines:

  • The employee may not work more than 25 hours a week and no more than 5 hours a day.
  • The employee may not work after 9 PM local time.
  • The employee must be paid no less than the statewide minimum wage.
  • The employee is entitled to the same benefits, be it health or otherwise, that any normal tenured employee is entitled to.
  • The employee must work in appropriate working conditions, meaning they may not operate heavy machinery or any other type of dangerous machinery.
  • Only those ages 17 and up may handle food products in the workplace.

2. If a company, business or corporation is found to be not adhering to these guidelines, they may be subject to a $1,500 (one thousand, five hundred) fine.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on August 20, 2012, 09:33:47 PM
Underage Labour Guidelines Act of 2012

Section 1

1. If a company, business or corporation based in Mideast Region hires an employee under the age of 18 (eighteen) they must adhere to the following guidelines:

  • The employee may not work more than 25 hours a week and no more than 5 hours a day.
  • The employee may not work after 9 PM local time.
  • The employee must be paid no less than the statewide minimum wage.
  • The employee is entitled to the same benefits, be it health or otherwise, that any normal tenured employee is entitled to.
  • The employee must work in appropriate working conditions, meaning they may not operate heavy machinery or any other type of dangerous machinery.
  • Only those ages 17 and up may handle food products in the workplace.

2. If a company, business or corporation is found to be not adhering to these guidelines, they may be subject to a $1,500 (one thousand, five hundred) fine.
As someone who was just in this position, I have some amendments I'll be proposing once this is brought up to debate. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on August 21, 2012, 09:43:17 AM
Underage Labour Guidelines Act of 2012

Section 1

1. If a company, business or corporation based in Mideast Region hires an employee under the age of 18 (eighteen) they must adhere to the following guidelines:

  • The employee may not work more than 25 hours a week and no more than 5 hours a day.
  • The employee may not work after 9 PM local time.
  • The employee must be paid no less than the statewide minimum wage.
  • The employee is entitled to the same benefits, be it health or otherwise, that any normal tenured employee is entitled to.
  • The employee must work in appropriate working conditions, meaning they may not operate heavy machinery or any other type of dangerous machinery.
  • Only those ages 17 and up may handle food products in the workplace.

2. If a company, business or corporation is found to be not adhering to these guidelines, they may be subject to a $1,500 (one thousand, five hundred) fine.

As someone who was just in this position, I have some amendments I'll be proposing once this is brought up to debate. :)

Sweet! :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on August 25, 2012, 08:14:51 PM
Mideast Contest Winnings Taxation Act

Section 1

1. Any citizen of the Mideast Region who wins a lottery, radio contest or any similar contest within the region is hereby subjected to taxation on their winnings.

2. The taxation shall be:

  • On any prize that totals less than $100,000 in value: 15%
  • On any prize that totals more than $100,001 in value: 25%

3. Any prize that totals less than $500 shall be exempt from taxation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on August 28, 2012, 03:48:56 PM
The Nefarious Act aka The Mideast Anti-Human Trafficking Act

MAC 35-42-3.5
     Chapter 3.5. Human and Sexual Trafficking

MAC 35-42-3.5-1 Version a
Promotion of human trafficking; sexual trafficking of a minor; human trafficking
     Note: This version of section effective until 7-1-2012. See also following version of this section, effective 7-1-2012.
    Sec. 1. (a) A person who, by force, threat of force, or fraud, knowingly or intentionally recruits, harbors, or transports another person:
        (1) to engage the other person in:
            (A) forced labor; or
            (B) involuntary servitude; or
        (2) to force the other person into:
            (A) marriage;
            (B) prostitution; or
            (C) participating in sexual conduct (as defined by IC 35-42-4-4);
commits promotion of human trafficking, a Class B felony.
    (b) A person who knowingly or intentionally recruits, harbors, or transports a child less than sixteen (16) years of age with the intent of:
        (1) engaging the child in:
            (A) forced labor; or
            (B) involuntary servitude; or
        (2) inducing or causing the child to:
            (A) engage in prostitution; or
            (B) participate in sexual conduct (as defined by IC 35-42-4-4);
commits promotion of human trafficking of a minor, a Class B felony. It is not a defense to a prosecution under this subsection that the child consented to engage in prostitution or to participate in sexual conduct.
    (c) A person who is at least eighteen (18) years of age who knowingly or intentionally sells or transfers custody of a child less than sixteen (16) years of age for the purpose of prostitution or participating in sexual conduct (as defined by MAC 35-42-4-4) commits sexual trafficking of a minor, a Class A felony.
    (d) A person who knowingly or intentionally pays, offers to pay, or agrees to pay money or other property to another person for an individual who the person knows has been forced into:
        (1) forced labor;
        (2) involuntary servitude; or
        (3) prostitution;
commits human trafficking, a Class C felony.
As added by P.L.173-2006, SEC.52. Amended by P.L.1-2012, SEC.4.
MAC 35-42-3.5-1 Version b
Promotion of human trafficking; sexual trafficking of a minor;


     
    Sec. 1. (a) A person who, by force, threat of force, or fraud, knowingly or intentionally recruits, harbors, or transports another person:
        (1) to engage the other person in:
            (A) forced labor; or
            (B) involuntary servitude; or
        (2) to force the other person into:
            (A) marriage;
            (B) prostitution; or
            (C) participating in sexual conduct (as defined by IC 35-42-4-4);
commits promotion of human trafficking, a Class B felony.
    (b) A person who knowingly or intentionally recruits, harbors, or transports a child less than sixteen (16) years of age with the intent of:
        (1) engaging the child in:
            (A) forced labor; or
            (B) involuntary servitude; or
        (2) inducing or causing the child to:
            (A) engage in prostitution; or
            (B) participate in sexual conduct (as defined by MAC 35-42-4-4);
commits promotion of human trafficking of a minor, a Class B felony. Except as provided in subsection (e), it is not a defense to a prosecution under this subsection that the child consented to engage in prostitution or to participate in sexual conduct.
    (c) A person who is at least eighteen (18) years of age who knowingly or intentionally sells or transfers custody of a child less than sixteen (16) years of age for the purpose of prostitution or participating in sexual conduct (as defined by MAC 35-42-4-4) commits sexual trafficking of a minor, a Class A felony.
    (d) A person who knowingly or intentionally pays, offers to pay, or agrees to pay money or other property to another person for an individual who the person knows has been forced into:
        (1) forced labor;
        (2) involuntary servitude; or
        (3) prostitution;
commits human trafficking, a Class C felony.
    (e) It is a defense to a prosecution under subsection (b)(2)(B) if:
        (1) the child is at least fourteen (14) years of age but less than sixteen (16) years of age and the person is less than eighteen (18) years of age; or
        (2) all the following apply:
            (A) The person is not more than four (4) years older than the victim.
            (B) The relationship between the person and the victim was a dating relationship or an ongoing personal relationship.

The term "ongoing personal relationship" does not include a family relationship.
            (C) The crime:
                (i) was not committed by a person who is at least twenty-one (21) years of age;
                (ii) was not committed by using or threatening the use of deadly force;
                (iii) was not committed while armed with a deadly weapon;
                (iv) did not result in serious bodily injury;
                (v) was not facilitated by furnishing the victim, without the victim's knowledge, with a drug (as defined in MAC 16-42-19-2(1)) or a controlled substance (as defined in IC 35-48-1-9) or knowing that the victim was furnished with the drug or controlled substance without the victim's knowledge; and
                (vi) was not committed by a person having a position of authority or substantial influence over the victim.
            (D) The person has not committed another sex offense (as defined in IC 11-8-8-5.2), including a delinquent act that would be a sex offense if committed by an adult, against any other person.
As added by P.L.173-2006, SEC.52. Amended by P.L.1-2012, SEC.4; P.L.72-2012, SEC.3.
MAC35-42-3.5-2
Restitution orders
     Sec. 2. In addition to any sentence or fine imposed for a conviction of an offense under section 1 of this chapter, the court shall order the person convicted to make restitution to the victim of the crime under IC 35-50-5-3.
As added by P.L.173-2006, SEC.52.
MAC 35-42-3.5-3
Civil cause of action
     Sec. 3. (a) If a person is convicted of an offense under section 1 of this chapter, the victim of the offense:
        (1) has a civil cause of action against the person convicted of the offense; and
        (2) may recover the following from the person in the civil action:
            (A) Actual damages.
            (B) Court costs (including fees).
            (C) Punitive damages, when determined to be appropriate by the court.
            (D) Reasonable attorney's fees.
    (b) An action under this section must be brought not more than two (2) years after the date the person is convicted of the offense under section 1 of this chapter.
As added by P.L.173-2006, SEC.52. Amended by P.L.106-2010,

SEC.15.
MAC 35-42-3.5-4
Rights of alleged victims
     Sec. 4. (a) An alleged victim of an offense under section 1 of this chapter:
        (1) may not be detained in a facility that is inappropriate to the victim's status as a crime victim;
        (2) may not be jailed, fined, or otherwise penalized due to having been the victim of the offense; and
        (3) shall be provided protection if the victim's safety is at risk or if there is danger of additional harm by recapture of the victim by the person who allegedly committed the offense, including:
            (A) taking measures to protect the alleged victim and the victim's family members from intimidation and threats of reprisals and reprisals from the person who allegedly committed the offense or the person's agent; and
            (B) ensuring that the names and identifying information of the alleged victim and the victim's family members are not disclosed to the public.
This subsection shall be administered by law enforcement agencies and the Indiana criminal justice institute as appropriate.
(C) The Mideast shall grant asylum to any victim that is not an Atlasian national provided approval from the national government
    (b) Not more than fifteen (15) days after the date a law enforcement agency first encounters an alleged victim of an offense under section 1 of this chapter, the law enforcement agency shall provide the alleged victim with a completed Declaration of Law Enforcement Officer for Victim of Trafficking in Persons (LEA Declaration, Form I-914 Supplement B) in accordance with 8 CFR 214.11(f)(1). However, if the law enforcement agency finds that the grant of an LEA Declaration is not appropriate for the alleged victim, the law enforcement agency shall, not more than fifteen (15) days after the date the agency makes the finding, provide the alleged victim with a letter explaining the grounds for the denial of the LEA Declaration. After receiving a denial letter, the alleged victim may submit additional evidence to the law enforcement agency. If the alleged victim submits additional evidence, the law enforcement agency shall reconsider the denial of the LEA Declaration not more than seven (7) days after the date the agency receives the additional evidence.
As added by P.L.173-2006, SEC.52. Amended by P.L.130-2009, SEC.27.


Sponsor JCL


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on August 29, 2012, 07:27:58 PM
The Mideast Educational Reading Reform Act
Quote
1. All future high school students in the Mideast region will be required to take a speed-reading course at any time before their graduation.
2. The course that students take may be part of their regular high school cirriculum or may be a course offered privately and outside regular school hours.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 06, 2012, 12:59:36 PM
If someone could sign on to this, that'd be great. :)


Quote
Preventing an Oligarchy Amendment

Article III, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

Should the Assembly pass ordinary legislation by a majority vote, then the Governor may sign such legislation into Law, or veto such legislation. A veto may be overturned upon the two-thirds vote if the Assembly consists of five members or by a unanimous vote if the Assembly consists of three members.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on September 06, 2012, 01:14:48 PM
If someone could sign on to this, that'd be great. :)


Quote
Preventing an Oligarchy Amendment

Article III, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

Should the Assembly pass ordinary legislation by a majority vote, then the Governor may sign such legislation into Law, or veto such legislation. A veto may be overturned upon the two-thirds vote if the Assembly consists of five members or by a unanimous vote if the Assembly consists of three members.

I'll sign on to this. It's a common sense fix.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 07, 2012, 01:45:32 PM
I'd really hoped to stop considering anything else this session since we have so many bills going on already, but since it's been supported, I guess it's going up as well.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 09, 2012, 07:03:40 PM
Quote
Mideast Pension Tax

A citizen's taxable income shall be calculated as his/her income before any contributions to a pension or other retirement fund.

Any contributions to a pension or retirement fund by an employer shall be taxed at a rate of 1.5%.  This tax shall be paid as part of the yearly tax filing for the year the contribution is made.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 15, 2012, 05:24:34 PM
FYI, I'm out of town until Sunday so I only have mobile access which
Makes it hard to paste votes to the governor, so we won't have any more  ores until I return on Sunday.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on September 15, 2012, 10:04:42 PM
FYI, I'm out of town until Sunday so I only have mobile access which
Makes it hard to paste votes to the governor, so we won't have any more  ores until I return on Sunday.

Or I could be named temporary speaker :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on September 19, 2012, 05:46:00 PM
Quote
Mideast Election Day Act

1. During elections in the Mideast, all government offices will be closed until the first weekday after voting has ended or until the end of the next government holiday.

2. The above requirements will become effective beginning with the November 2012 Mideast elections.

3. All public safety and medical facilities will be exempt from the above requirements.

Quote
Mideast Health Care Reform Act of 2012

1. All Mideast citizens will be able to purchase private health insurance from outside the Mideast region or their state of residence.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on September 23, 2012, 01:18:47 PM
Thank you - it has been a pleasure to work with you during the last session! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on September 23, 2012, 02:58:45 PM
Thank you - it has been a pleasure to work with you during the last session! :)

And it was a pleasure to work with you, Governor. I hope your service to this region doesn't end now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on September 26, 2012, 07:36:34 PM
Thank you - it has been a pleasure to work with you during the last session! :)

And it was a pleasure to work with you, Governor. I hope your service to this region doesn't end now.
I hope so, too.  I would like to thank all the great members of the Assembly that I worked with this session, and I hope to return soon.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on September 26, 2012, 08:07:50 PM
Resolution Commending Governor ZuWo

1. WHEREAS Governor ZuWo was an active, likable and all around great Governor.
2. RECOGNIZING ZuWo as a fantastic leader of the Mideast Region.
3. COMMENDING Governor ZuWo for his work as Governor.
4. HEREBY commends Governor ZuWo for his service to the Mideast Region.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 27, 2012, 02:34:53 PM
I would ask that no more bills or resolutions be introduced at this point, as I will refuse to bring them up for a vote.  Time is just too short now.  Thank you, and as soon as our present vote is done, this session will be gavelled to a close.

Pleas remember to swear in tomorrow AFTER 1:00 P.M. EDT.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on September 28, 2012, 03:22:49 PM
Bill for the new session, want to get this out there know because I'll be gone all day tomorrow:

2012 Union Liberation Bill
Section 1  
 • Union busting will be legally defined as a practice that is undertaken by an employer or their agents to prevent employees from joining a labor union, or subvert, stop workers right to join, or destroy unions that already exist.
 • The above practice will be made illegal in the Mideast Region in order to protect the rights of citizen workers in the region.
 • Punishments for companies may include large fines totaling no more than twenty five percent of their annual income for that year that the union was affected by the aforementioned practice.
Section 2
• An additional ballot to require an employer recognize a union is herby eliminated, if a majority of workers have already signed cards expressing their wish to have a union
 • Requiring an additional ballot will be made illegal in the Mideast Region in order to protect the rights of citizen workers in the region.
 • Punishments for companies that force an additional ballot may include large fines totaling no more than twenty five percent of their annual income for that year that the union was affected by the aforementioned practice.
Section 3
• Workers in all professions are allowed to unionize; this includes the fallow professions that were once prohibited:
      o Agricultural workers including family farms
      o Domestic workers
      o First-level managers
      o Independent contractors
      o Regional and state government workers  
Section 4
• Labor Relations Act is hereby repealed


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 28, 2012, 07:21:25 PM
Welcome to the new session of the Assembly.

Mr. X and 20RP12, please swear in.

As dean of the Assembly, I will now open the floor for nominations for Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 28, 2012, 08:11:30 PM
Considering all of his experience and dedication to this body, I would strongly encourage the Assembly to elect Inks as Speaker for another session. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 28, 2012, 09:32:55 PM
Hey guys,

"The National University..." bill is about ready to be signed by President Napoleon.

We need to select a location of economic distress in our region for our regional university to be located also. We need to come up with a location - personally, I'd like to recommend Detroit, but I'd be open to other locations.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on September 28, 2012, 09:38:52 PM
Detroit or Eastern Kentucky would be a good choice.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 28, 2012, 09:38:57 PM
I'd also suggest Peoria, IL; a city which has been hard hit as well, but which lacks some of the larger problems of Detroit.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Napoleon on September 28, 2012, 09:44:19 PM
Detroit or Eastern Kentucky would be a good choice.

I don't know if many parents will send their kids to Detroit. :P

And that's President Napoleon to you, Mr. Governor! ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 28, 2012, 09:53:55 PM
Whatever, Little Corporal. :P

I hear y'all on the concerns with Detroit - With that, I'm going to throw Elkhart into the mix.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 28, 2012, 10:32:20 PM
Quote
Teaching Reform Act of 2012

Section 1 - Repeal of the "Teaching Reform Act"

1. The "Teaching Reform Act" is hereby repealed

Section 2 - Beginning Teacher Pay

1. The entry-level pay for teachers in the Mideast Region shall be set $34,000 per school year.

Section 3 - Teacher Evaluation

The Mideast Region believes in having top quality teacher's in our region, and supports awarding those who excel in their field.

1. Each teacher will be evaluated by the administration of their school once a year, and shall receive either a positive or negative performance score.
2. The teacher performance score shall be determined on a case-by-case basis with technique, attendance, peer reviews, and student test scores being considered.
3. Should a teacher receive a negative performance score, they will be placed on probation, and are unable to receive a pay raise.
4. Should a teacher receive a negative performance score for two consecutive years and have worked at the specific institution for less than ten years, the teacher may be subject to termination.
5. Should a teacher receive a negative performance score for three consecutive years and have worked at the specific institution for more than ten years, the teacher may be subject to termination.
4. Should a teacher receive a positive performance score, they will be eligible for up to a 5% raise, determined by the school's administration.

Section 4 - Education Level

The Mideast Region believes that teacher's should be rewarded for their hard work in receiving their education, and their pay should reflect their hard work.

1. For a teacher who's highest level of education is a bachelor degree, their ability to receive a promotion shall be capped after five successful positive performance reviews.
2. For a teacher who's highest level of education is a master degree, their ability to receive a promotion shall be capped after fifteen successful positive performance reviews.
3. For a teacher who's highest level of education is a doctorate degree, their ability to receive a promotion shall be capped after twenty successful positive performance reviews.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on September 29, 2012, 12:02:51 AM
Considering all of his experience and dedication to this body, I would strongly encourage the Assembly to elect Inks as Speaker for another session. :)

Even though Inks and I are probably the farthest ideological extremes in the assembly, I do appreciate and respect his experience and dedication to the Mideast and our legislature. I wholeheartedly support him to be our Speaker for the next session!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on September 29, 2012, 09:31:51 AM
I'd suggest Detroit or Chicago.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on September 29, 2012, 04:59:55 PM
I'd suggest Cleveland, Detroit, or Baltimore.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on September 29, 2012, 05:00:58 PM
Considering all of his experience and dedication to this body, I would strongly encourage the Assembly to elect Inks as Speaker for another session. :)

Even though Inks and I are probably the farthest ideological extremes in the assembly, I do appreciate and respect his experience and dedication to the Mideast and our legislature. I wholeheartedly support him to be our Speaker for the next session!

Seconded :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on September 29, 2012, 05:21:55 PM
Immigration Reform Act of 2012

Section 1
•   The Mideast Assembly recognizes that although English is the primary language of the region, there is no official language in the Mideast. 
•   The Mideast government will build English language education and career-services centers in the cities of Baltimore, Chicago (2x), Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit, Grand Rapids, Green Bay, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Louisville, Madison, Milwaukee, Nyman DC (2x), Richmond, and St. Louis. These centers will focus on helping first generation immigrants learn English and find jobs so that they can be productive members of Atlasian society.
•   Any first-generation immigrant who passes a region-issued English language exam at one of these centers will receive a $1,000 earned income tax-credit for the first two years after they pass the exam.

Section 2
•   The Mideast will establish a ten-year guest-worker program through which immigrant workers will be issued special visas that will allow them (along with their nuclear family) to reside in the U.S. as guest workers for a period not to exceed ten years. 
•   During this time, all guest workers and their family are encouraged to work to gain citizenship during this ten-year window


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: All Along The Watchtower on September 29, 2012, 07:58:29 PM
Mr. Assemblyman, what would "encouraged to work to gain citizenship" specifically entail in the context of this bill? Periodic government reminders to the families in question?

Some clarification here would be helpful.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on September 29, 2012, 08:13:41 PM
Mr. Assemblyman, what would "encouraged to work to gain citizenship" specifically entail in the context of this bill? Periodic government reminders to the families in question?

Some clarification here would be helpful.

In the context of this bill, it is more symbolic.  The intent of that part of section two was essentially to reflect a welcoming attitude towards immigrants by the regional government (as opposed to one of hostility).  It is not unlike the first part of section one, in this way.  Although the Assembly could simply not pass any "official language declarations," explicitly stating that the region does not have an official language has symbolic significance.  From a policy perspective, the real meat of the bill is in the parts of section one dealing with the tax credit and the language education and career services centers, and in the part of section two dealing with the establishment of a regional guest-worker program.  That being said, I still believe that the symbolic parts of the bill are important.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 29, 2012, 11:09:44 PM
Here is a list. All Mideasterners can vote - there's no real procedure on this. Vote will last for 24 hours.

Ballot:
[] Cleveland, OH
[] Detroit, MI
[] Baltimore, MD
[] Peoria, IL
[] Chicago, IL
[] Elkhart, IN



I'm going to make a little speech on behalf of Elkhart:

- As someone stated earlier, I'm not sure we should choose a large city - a medium-sized city would be more ideal, IMO.
- It'd be good to have a regional university that is centrally located, and I think Elkhart is just about as centrally located as you can get.
- Elkhart is known for a state Obama frequently visited, as it was severely hit by the economy. Unemployment there was over 15% at one point, and I know it is still very depressing.

I think the two most logical choices here would be Peoria and Elkhart. Both are medium-sized cities that are economically depressed. However, Elkhart is more centrally located, and Peoria already has multiple universities, most notably Bradley. Elkhart doesn't really have anything, other than Bethel College, which only has a couple thousand students.

I also know space would be no issue at Elkhart. Would that be a problem in places like Detroit and Chicago? (I don't know, as I've never been to either city) The population of Elkhart is 60,000.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 29, 2012, 11:10:32 PM
Ballot:
[3] Cleveland, OH
[4] Detroit, MI
[5] Baltimore, MD
[2] Peoria, IL
[6] Chicago, IN
[1] Elkhart, IN


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on September 29, 2012, 11:15:40 PM
[6] Cleveland, OH
[3] Detroit, MI
[4] Baltimore, MD
[2] Peoria, IL
[5] Chicago, IN
[1] Elkhart, IN


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Napoleon on September 29, 2012, 11:20:46 PM
1. Peoria, IL
2. Elkhart, IN
3. Baltimore, MD
4. Chicago, IL


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 30, 2012, 12:51:57 AM
Ballot:
[3] Cleveland, OH
[1] Detroit, MI
[4] Baltimore, MD
[6] Peoria, IL
[5] Chicago, IN (I assume this is supposed to be Illinois?)
[2] Elkhart, IN


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 30, 2012, 12:53:48 AM
Seeing as I am the only nominee, I ask unanimous consent that Inks.LWC be elected Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on September 30, 2012, 08:57:41 AM
[1] Cleveland, OH
[5] Detroit, MI
[6] Baltimore, MD
[4] Peoria, IL
[3] Chicago, IL
[2] Elkhart, IN


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on September 30, 2012, 09:26:53 AM
1. Elkhart, IN
2. Chicago, IL
3. Cleveland, OH


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on September 30, 2012, 02:00:00 PM
[1] Detroit, MI
[2] Romney, WV


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on September 30, 2012, 03:28:02 PM
1 Keshena, WI 
2 Detroit, MI
3 Peoria, IL
4 Elkhart, IN
5 Cleveland, OH
6 Baltimore, MD
7 Chicago, IL






Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 30, 2012, 09:34:20 PM
Without objection, Inks.LWC is elected Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 30, 2012, 11:15:45 PM
By a vote of 5-3, Elkhart defeats Detroit in the final round.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 01, 2012, 09:04:13 PM
Governor Update 3
Well, I'm making this appointment much quicker than I expected to, but I've had a feeling I'd be making an appointment on this for over a week now. ;) I was lucky to find a highly qualified, active Mideasterner who I'm certain will do a great job as Superior Court Judge.

I hereby appoint TJ in Cleve to the position of Superior Court Judge! :)


Governor Tmthforu94



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 01, 2012, 09:15:15 PM
For procedure purposes, I'm going to submit the budget again for debate. Hopefully this is the last session this has to be done! :)


Quote
Mideast Budget 2012

Revenue:

Revenue: Amount
Income Taxes: $35.3 B
Social Insurance Taxes: $24.4 B
"Ad Valorum" Taxes: $108.5 B
Fees: $43.3 B
Business and Other: $70.5 B
TOTAL: $282 B


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Budget: $314.01 billion
Spending ($232.71 billion)

*(No change) does NOT denote changing in spending levels from RL to this budget. It's really there for the next budget so we can copy this first budget, change the numbers, and then off to the side put the positive/negative change since the preceeding budget.

Energy ($5.75  billion)
$3 Billion ...... Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so.
$1 Billion  ...... Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion  ...... Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$0.5 Billion  ...... Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$0.25 Billion  ...... Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy)

Natural resources and environment ($5.21 billion)
$2.61 billion ...... Water resources (No Change)
$0.57 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change)
$0.5 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change)

Agriculture ($4.04 billion)
$2.95 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$1.09 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change)

Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($1.95 billion)
$0.34 billion ..... Housing Loan Programs (No Change)
$0.02 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$1.36 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change)
$0.23 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change)

Transportation ($23.25 billion)
$9.00 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$4.00 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.25 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$1.05 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.45 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)
$6.45 billion ..... Non-Highway Roads (No Change)

Community and regional development ($4.39 billion)
$2.50 billion ...... Community development (No Change)
$0.96 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change)
$0.93 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education ($69.32 billion)
$41.32 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$20.00 billion ..... Higher education (No Change)
$8.00 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change)

Training, labor and unemployment ($9.37 billion)
$4.34 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change)
$0.2 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change)
$4.83 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Health Spending ($14.08 billion)
$2.23 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change)
$0.70 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change)
$8.45 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change)
$0.20 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change)

Civilian Retirement ($41.50 billion)
$1.0 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change)
$29.50 billion ..... Mideast employee retirement and disability (No Change)
$11.00 billion ...... Mideast employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)

Aid to Low-Income Families ($25.00 billion)
$6.01 billion ..... Housing assistance (No Change)
$4.33 billion ..... Food stamps (No Change)
$2.3 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches) (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Family support payments (TANF) (No Change)
$7.01 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$0.85 billion ..... Child tax credit (No Change)
$0.99 billion ....... Child care funds (No Change)
$0.18 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families (No Change)

General Family Support ($5.39 billion)
$1.32 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance (No Change)
$0.33 billion ...... Child support and family support programs (No Change)
$3.74 billion ..... Social and family services (No Change)

Administration of justice ($20.45 billion)
$11.35 billion ..... Regional law enforcement and security (No Change)
$5.21 billion ..... Regional litigation and judicial activities (No Change)
$2.89 billion ...... Regional prison system (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change)

General government administration ($3.01 billion)
$0.31 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change)
$0.10 billion ...... Executive office programs (No Change)
$2.05 billion ....... Fiscal operations (No Change)
$0.55 billion ...... Other general government (No Change)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax Expenditures and Tax Cuts ($81.3 billion)

Corporate Tax Breaks ($11.03 billion)
$7.00 billion ...... R&D Tax Breaks (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Energy, Mining and Timber Tax Breaks (No Change)
$2.03 billion ...... Tax Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.99 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change)

Personal Business & Investment Benefits ($4.69 billion)
$3.80 billion ..... Tax-Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Enterprise & Empowerment Zones and New Markets credit (No Change)
$0.33 billion ....... Other personal investment tax breaks (No Change)

Pension & Retirement Deductions ($26.08 billion)
$10.05 billion ..... Employer-paid Pensions (No Change)
$7.05 billion ..... 401Ks & Keogh plans (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... IRAs (No Change)
$6.62 billion ..... Group and personal life insurance benefits (No Change)
$0.86 billion ...... Other retirement benefits (No Change)

Health Insurance Tax Benefits ($12.14 billion)
$5.30 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... Self-employed medical insurance premiums (No Change)
$4.70 billion ...... Medical Savings/Health Savings Accounts (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Deductibility of medical expenses (No Change)

Housing tax benefits ($8.67 billion)
$2.75 billion ..... Mortgage Interest (No Change)
$1.50 billion ..... Deductibility of property taxes on homes (No Change)
$3.51 billion ..... Exclusion of net imputed rental income on owner-occupied homes (No Change)
$0.91 billion ...... Housing bonds & low-income housing investments (No Change)

Other individual deductions and exemptions ($14.43 billion)
$3.62 billion ..... Charitable contributions (No Change)
$1.91 billion ..... Local taxes (w/o home property) (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Workmen's compensation (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Education deductions and credits (No Change)
$1.31 billion ..... Child credit (No Change)
$1.38 billion ...... Child care credits and deductions (No Change)
$0.46 billion ......... Deduction for the blind and elderly (No Change)
$0.41 billion ...... Employee parking and transit expenses (No Change)
$0.35 billion ...... Adoption and foster care tax credits (No Change)
$0.80 billion ...... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)- revenue loss component (No Change)
$0.30 billion ...... Other fringe benefits (No Change)
----------

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000
1%    $13,001 - $40,000
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000
2.2%    $100,001 - $180,000
2.7%    $180,001 - $300,000
3.25%    $300,001 - $750,000
4%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
5%    $2,750,001- $9,999,999
6.5%   $10,000,000+

Corporate Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $50,000
0.5%    $50,001 - $75,000
1%    $75,001 - $125,000
1.5%    $125,001 - $350,000
2%    $350,001 - $1,000,000
2.5%    $1,000,001 - $10,000,000
3.25%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

Sales Tax Rate: 5.7% (Groceries, prescription drugs exempt)

Pension Tax: 1.5%

Excise Taxes:

Gas: 7 cents/gallon (10 cents/gallon for diesel).

Lottery:
Prizes less than $1,000.00 - 15%
Prizes more than $1,001.00 - 25%
             

Cigarettes: $1.60 per pack.
Other Tobacco Products: 55% Manufactures Price
Distilled Spirits: $2.70 per gallon
Wine: $0.30 per gallon
Beer: $0.20 per gallon
Marijuana: 25% sales tax

Projected Deficit: $27.75 B
Sponsor: Tmthforu94


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 02, 2012, 11:35:19 AM
You're not going to submit the budget as amended by the last session?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 02, 2012, 11:48:19 AM
For reference, her is that budget, with the changes that were made.  Mr. Governor, I hope you'll withdraw your initial budget and introduce this one.  Once that happens, if we can get the GM to recalculate everything and give us the figures for the pension tax, we should be good:

Quote
Mideast Budget 2012

Revenue:

Revenue: Amount
Income Taxes: $35.3 B
Social Insurance Taxes: $24.4 B
"Ad Valorum" Taxes: $108.5 B
Fees: $43.3 B
Business and Other: $70.5 B
TOTAL: $282 B


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Budget: $314.01 billion
Spending ($232.71 billion)

*(No change) does NOT denote changing in spending levels from RL to this budget. It's really there for the next budget so we can copy this first budget, change the numbers, and then off to the side put the positive/negative change since the preceeding budget.

Energy ($5.75  billion)
$3 Billion ...... Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so.
$1 Billion  ...... Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion  ...... Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$0.5 Billion  ...... Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$0.25 Billion  ...... Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy)

Natural resources and environment ($5.21 billion)
$2.61 billion ...... Water resources (No Change)
$0.57 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change)
$0.5 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change)

Agriculture ($4.04 billion)
$2.95 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$1.09 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change)

Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($1.95 billion)
$0.34 billion ..... Housing Loan Programs (No Change)
$0.02 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$1.36 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change)
$0.23 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change)

Transportation ($23.25 billion)
$9.00 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$4.00 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.25 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$1.05 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.45 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)
$6.45 billion ..... Non-Highway Roads (No Change)

Community and regional development ($4.39 billion)
$2.50 billion ...... Community development (No Change)
$0.96 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change)
$0.93 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education ($69.32 billion)
$41.32 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$20.00 billion ..... Higher education (No Change)
$8.00 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change)

Training, labor and unemployment ($9.37 billion)
$4.34 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change)
$0.2 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change)
$4.83 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Health Spending ($14.08 billion)
$2.23 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change)
$0.70 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change)
$8.45 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change)
$0.20 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change)

Civilian Retirement ($41.50 billion)
$1.0 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change)
$29.50 billion ..... Mideast employee retirement and disability (No Change)
$11.00 billion ...... Mideast employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)

Aid to Low-Income Families ($25.00 billion)
$6.01 billion ..... Housing assistance (No Change)
$4.33 billion ..... Food stamps (No Change)
$2.3 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches) (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Family support payments (TANF) (No Change)
$7.01 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$0.85 billion ..... Child tax credit (No Change)
$0.99 billion ....... Child care funds (No Change)
$0.18 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families (No Change)

General Family Support ($5.39 billion)
$1.32 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance (No Change)
$0.33 billion ...... Child support and family support programs (No Change)
$3.74 billion ..... Social and family services (No Change)

Administration of justice ($20.45 billion)
$11.35 billion ..... Regional law enforcement and security (No Change)
$5.21 billion ..... Regional litigation and judicial activities (No Change)
$2.89 billion ...... Regional prison system (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change)

General government administration ($3.01 billion)
$0.31 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change)
$0.10 billion ...... Executive office programs (No Change)
$2.05 billion ....... Fiscal operations (No Change)
$0.55 billion ...... Other general government (No Change)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax Expenditures and Tax Cuts ($81.371.73 billion)

Corporate Tax Breaks ($11.037.53 billion)
$7.003.5 billion ...... R&D Tax Breaks (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Energy, Mining and Timber Tax Breaks (No Change)
$2.03 billion ...... Tax Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.99 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change)

Personal Business & Investment Benefits ($4.69 billion)
$3.80 billion ..... Tax-Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Enterprise & Empowerment Zones and New Markets credit (No Change)
$0.33 billion ....... Other personal investment tax breaks (No Change)

Pension & Retirement Deductions ($26.08 billion)
$10.05 billion ..... Employer-paid Pensions (No Change)
$7.05 billion ..... 401Ks & Keogh plans (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... IRAs (No Change)
$6.62 billion ..... Group and personal life insurance benefits (No Change)
$0.86 billion ...... Other retirement benefits (No Change)

Health Insurance Tax Benefits ($12.14 billion)
$5.30 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... Self-employed medical insurance premiums (No Change)
$4.70 billion ...... Medical Savings/Health Savings Accounts (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Deductibility of medical expenses (No Change)

Housing tax benefits ($12.938.67 billion)
$5.502.75 billion ..... Mortgage Interest (No Change)
$3.011.50 billion ..... Deductibility of property taxes on homes (No Change)
$3.51 billion ..... Exclusion of net imputed rental income on owner-occupied homes (No Change)
$0.91 billion ...... Housing bonds & low-income housing investments (No Change)

Other individual deductions and exemptions ($14.4312.62 billion)
$3.621.81 billion ..... Charitable contributions (No Change)
$1.91 billion ..... Local taxes (w/o home property) (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Workmen's compensation (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Education deductions and credits (No Change)
$1.31 billion ..... Child credit (No Change)
$1.38 billion ...... Child care credits and deductions (No Change)
$0.46 billion ......... Deduction for the blind and elderly (No Change)
$0.41 billion ...... Employee parking and transit expenses (No Change)
$0.35 billion ...... Adoption and foster care tax credits (No Change)
$0.80 billion ...... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)- revenue loss component (No Change)
$0.30 billion ...... Other fringe benefits (No Change)
----------

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000
1%    $13,001 - $40,000
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000
2.2%    $100,001 - $180,000
2.7%    $180,001 - $300,000
3.25%    $300,001 - $750,000
4%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
5%    $2,750,001- $9,999,999
6.5%   $10,000,000+

Corporate Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $50,000
0.5%    $50,001 - $75,000
1%    $75,001 - $125,000
1.5%    $125,001 - $350,000
2%    $350,001 - $1,000,000
2.5%    $1,000,001 - $10,000,000
3.25%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

Sales Tax Rate: 5.7% (Groceries, prescription drugs exempt)

Excise Taxes:

Gas: 7 cents/gallon (10 cents/gallon for diesel).

Cigarettes: $1.60 per pack.
Other Tobacco Products: 55% Manufactures Price
Distilled Spirits: $2.70 per gallon
Wine: $0.30 per gallon
Beer: $0.200.30 per gallon
Marijuana: 25% sales tax

Projected Deficit: $32.01 B


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 02, 2012, 11:59:03 AM
You're not going to submit the budget as amended by the last session?
I took the budget that was on the first page, but sure, I withdraw that and introduce this:

Quote
Mideast Budget 2012

Revenue:

Revenue: Amount
Income Taxes: $35.3 B
Social Insurance Taxes: $24.4 B
"Ad Valorum" Taxes: $108.5 B
Fees: $43.3 B
Business and Other: $70.5 B
TOTAL: $282 B


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Budget: $314.01 billion
Spending ($232.71 billion)

*(No change) does NOT denote changing in spending levels from RL to this budget. It's really there for the next budget so we can copy this first budget, change the numbers, and then off to the side put the positive/negative change since the preceeding budget.

Energy ($5.75  billion)
$3 Billion ...... Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so.
$1 Billion  ...... Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion  ...... Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$0.5 Billion  ...... Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$0.25 Billion  ...... Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy)

Natural resources and environment ($5.21 billion)
$2.61 billion ...... Water resources (No Change)
$0.57 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change)
$0.5 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change)

Agriculture ($4.04 billion)
$2.95 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$1.09 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change)

Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($1.95 billion)
$0.34 billion ..... Housing Loan Programs (No Change)
$0.02 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$1.36 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change)
$0.23 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change)

Transportation ($23.25 billion)
$9.00 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$4.00 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.25 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$1.05 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.45 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)
$6.45 billion ..... Non-Highway Roads (No Change)

Community and regional development ($4.39 billion)
$2.50 billion ...... Community development (No Change)
$0.96 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change)
$0.93 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education ($69.32 billion)
$41.32 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$20.00 billion ..... Higher education (No Change)
$8.00 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change)

Training, labor and unemployment ($9.37 billion)
$4.34 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change)
$0.2 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change)
$4.83 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Health Spending ($14.08 billion)
$2.23 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change)
$0.70 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change)
$8.45 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change)
$0.20 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change)

Civilian Retirement ($41.50 billion)
$1.0 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change)
$29.50 billion ..... Mideast employee retirement and disability (No Change)
$11.00 billion ...... Mideast employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)

Aid to Low-Income Families ($25.00 billion)
$6.01 billion ..... Housing assistance (No Change)
$4.33 billion ..... Food stamps (No Change)
$2.3 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches) (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Family support payments (TANF) (No Change)
$7.01 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$0.85 billion ..... Child tax credit (No Change)
$0.99 billion ....... Child care funds (No Change)
$0.18 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families (No Change)

General Family Support ($5.39 billion)
$1.32 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance (No Change)
$0.33 billion ...... Child support and family support programs (No Change)
$3.74 billion ..... Social and family services (No Change)

Administration of justice ($20.45 billion)
$11.35 billion ..... Regional law enforcement and security (No Change)
$5.21 billion ..... Regional litigation and judicial activities (No Change)
$2.89 billion ...... Regional prison system (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change)

General government administration ($3.01 billion)
$0.31 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change)
$0.10 billion ...... Executive office programs (No Change)
$2.05 billion ....... Fiscal operations (No Change)
$0.55 billion ...... Other general government (No Change)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax Expenditures and Tax Cuts ($81.371.73 billion)

Corporate Tax Breaks ($11.037.53 billion)
$7.003.5 billion ...... R&D Tax Breaks (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Energy, Mining and Timber Tax Breaks (No Change)
$2.03 billion ...... Tax Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.99 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change)

Personal Business & Investment Benefits ($4.69 billion)
$3.80 billion ..... Tax-Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Enterprise & Empowerment Zones and New Markets credit (No Change)
$0.33 billion ....... Other personal investment tax breaks (No Change)

Pension & Retirement Deductions ($26.08 billion)
$10.05 billion ..... Employer-paid Pensions (No Change)
$7.05 billion ..... 401Ks & Keogh plans (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... IRAs (No Change)
$6.62 billion ..... Group and personal life insurance benefits (No Change)
$0.86 billion ...... Other retirement benefits (No Change)

Health Insurance Tax Benefits ($12.14 billion)
$5.30 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... Self-employed medical insurance premiums (No Change)
$4.70 billion ...... Medical Savings/Health Savings Accounts (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Deductibility of medical expenses (No Change)

Housing tax benefits ($12.938.67 billion)
$5.502.75 billion ..... Mortgage Interest (No Change)
$3.011.50 billion ..... Deductibility of property taxes on homes (No Change)
$3.51 billion ..... Exclusion of net imputed rental income on owner-occupied homes (No Change)
$0.91 billion ...... Housing bonds & low-income housing investments (No Change)

Other individual deductions and exemptions ($14.4312.62 billion)
$3.621.81 billion ..... Charitable contributions (No Change)
$1.91 billion ..... Local taxes (w/o home property) (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Workmen's compensation (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Education deductions and credits (No Change)
$1.31 billion ..... Child credit (No Change)
$1.38 billion ...... Child care credits and deductions (No Change)
$0.46 billion ......... Deduction for the blind and elderly (No Change)
$0.41 billion ...... Employee parking and transit expenses (No Change)
$0.35 billion ...... Adoption and foster care tax credits (No Change)
$0.80 billion ...... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)- revenue loss component (No Change)
$0.30 billion ...... Other fringe benefits (No Change)
----------

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000
1%    $13,001 - $40,000
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000
2.2%    $100,001 - $180,000
2.7%    $180,001 - $300,000
3.25%    $300,001 - $750,000
4%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
5%    $2,750,001- $9,999,999
6.5%   $10,000,000+

Corporate Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $50,000
0.5%    $50,001 - $75,000
1%    $75,001 - $125,000
1.5%    $125,001 - $350,000
2%    $350,001 - $1,000,000
2.5%    $1,000,001 - $10,000,000
3.25%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

Sales Tax Rate: 5.7% (Groceries, prescription drugs exempt)

Excise Taxes:

Gas: 7 cents/gallon (10 cents/gallon for diesel).

Cigarettes: $1.60 per pack.
Other Tobacco Products: 55% Manufactures Price
Distilled Spirits: $2.70 per gallon
Wine: $0.30 per gallon
Beer: $0.200.30 per gallon
Marijuana: 25% sales tax

Projected Deficit: $32.01 B


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 02, 2012, 01:49:06 PM
Environmental Responsibility Tax
1. The tax for gasoline shall be changed from 7 cents per gallon to 25 cents per gallon.
2. The tax for diesel fuel shall be changed from 10 cents per gallon to 20 cents per gallon.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on October 02, 2012, 03:56:34 PM
Drop The Death Toll Act of 2012

Section 1

1. It shall hereby be legal for recognized officers of the law to carry loaded firearms inside of a school within the Mideast Region.

2. An officer may only use violent force if absolutely necessary.

3. Officers may also use tasers in school, but only if absolutely necessary.

4. "Absolutely necessary" shall be defined in terms of subsection 4 as to break up a violent altercation that cannot be stopped by interjection of authority.

5. Misuse and abuse of the powers granted in subsections 3 and 4 shall result in the termination of the officer accused of doing so and may also result in jail time if a court sees fit.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on October 07, 2012, 01:05:46 PM
Quote
1. In order to commemorate some of the Mideast's greatest leaders, the states of the best region in Atlasia shall be renamed as follows: Illinois shall henceforth be known as Lincoln. Indiana shall henceforth be known as Debs. Kentucky shall henceforth be known as Clay. Maryland shall henceforth be known as Marshall. Michigan shall henceforth be known as Ford. Missouri shall henceforth be known as Truman. Ohio shall henceforth be known as Taft. Virginia shall henceforth be known as Jefferson. West Virginia shall henceforth be known as Byrd. Wisconsin shall henceforth be known as La Follette.
Sponsor: Gass3268


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on October 07, 2012, 01:15:11 PM
Noooooooooo only the Midwest gets to do states with different names.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 12, 2012, 06:31:04 PM
Trying to come up with some form of compromise on the issue of unions, which I understand to be very difficult, as neither side is too willing to budge. Hopefully we can work on this more collectively once it is brought to debate - this will not be the final version. ;)

Quote
Amendment to the Labor Relations Act

The Labor Relations Act shall hereby be amended to read:

Section 1
1. It is hereby unlawful in the Mideast Region for any company or organization to prevent an employee from joining a union or labor organization.
2. It is hereby unlawful in the Mideast Region for any company or organization to require that an employee join a union or labor organization.
3. It is hereby unlawful in the Mideast Region for any company to prevent a union or labor organization from being established or to force a union or labor organization to disband.
4. Workers in all professions are allowed to unionize; this includes the fallow professions that were once prohibited:
      o Agricultural workers including family farms
      o Domestic workers
      o First-level managers
      o Independent contractors
      o Regional and state government workers
5. Companies in violation of Clauses 1, 2, 3, and 4 will be subject with punishment, with fines totaling no more than twenty-five percent of their annual gross income.

Section 2
1. An additional ballot to require an employer recognize a union is not required unless seventy-five percent of workers have signed cards expressing their desire to establish a union.
2. Companies in violation of Clauses 1 will be subject with punishment, with fines totaling no more than fifteen percent of their annual gross income.

Section 3
1. "Emergency public service employee" is defined as employees of local or regional government employees employed within the Mideast Region whose employment directly effects the security and safety of the citizens of the Mideast Region. This definition applies to local and regional law enforcement officers and command staff, correctional officers and command staff, prison guards and command staff, emergency medical personnel, local and regional prosecutors, regional public defenders, local and regional firefighters, and local and regional employees of departments dealing with road repair, snow removal, trash collection, and disaster relief.
2. As Emergency public service employees are essential to protecting the public and providing security for all citizens of the Mideast region, unions/labor organizations representing emergency public service employees are prohibited from striking to resolve disputes in contract negotiations. If no contract has been agreed to within 60 days of the start of negotiations, either the union/labor organization or the local or regional government can declare that negotiations are at an impasse. Negotiations are then sent to binding arbitration before the Mideast Superior Court Judge. After such arbitration, either side has two weeks to seek review before the Supreme Court of Atlasia for final binding arbitration.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on October 13, 2012, 08:36:39 AM
No Mo Playin Hookey Act

Section 1

1. In order to reduce truancy within the Mideast Region, each school shall be required to call the parents of each student that is absent from homeroom on a regular school day.

2. If a parent cannot be reached, the child in question shall be suspected of truancy unless an adult can provide proof that the student's absence was excused.

3. All students found to be partaking in truancy shall be punished in accordance with each individual school's truancy punishment policy.

4. If a student's absence is excused, they shall be required to present a note to a school executive from their guardian explaining and excusing their absence.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 20, 2012, 12:47:31 PM
Quote
Amendment to The Common Courtesy While Driving Act

The "Common Courtesy While Driving Act" is hereby amended to read:

1. It is hereby prohibited to create excessive noise or havoc whilst driving in the Mideast Region.

2. "Excessive noise or havoc" shall be defined as excessively honking one's car horn, intimidating drivers, and/or using profane language that is audible to other motorists.

3. After two warnings, the fine for committing any of these acts shall be $250. After paying the fine, it will be reset, and they will again have two warnings until facing a fine.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 20, 2012, 06:13:10 PM
Due to recent changes in the composition of the Mideast Assembly, I am reintroducing this legislation.

Section 1
•   The Mideast Assembly recognizes that although English is the primary language of the region, there is no official language in the Mideast.  
•   The Mideast government will build English language education and career-services centers in the cities of Baltimore, Chicago (2x), Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit, Grand Rapids, Green Bay, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Louisville, Madison, Milwaukee, Nyman DC (2x), Richmond, and St. Louis. These centers will focus on helping first generation immigrants learn English and find jobs so that they can be productive members of Atlasian society.
•   Any first-generation immigrant who passes a region-issued English language exam at one of these centers will, along with their family, be permitted to reside in the region for an additional five years under the guest worker program described in Section 2, Clause 1 of this bill.

Section 2
•   The Mideast will establish a ten-year guest-worker program through which immigrant workers will be issued special visas that will allow them (along with their nuclear family) to reside in the region as guest workers for a period not to exceed ten years.  
•   During this time, all guest workers and their family are encouraged to work to gain citizenship during this ten-year window


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 22, 2012, 05:05:38 PM
I believe we are all caught up on introduced legislation.  If I am incorrect in this, please let me know.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 23, 2012, 05:49:12 AM
I am going to put a 48-hour hold on any legislative action (other than any votes currently in progress) to allow the Governor to catch up on updating the wiki.  If the wiki is caught up before that 48-hour hold, I'll lift the hold.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on October 23, 2012, 08:50:57 AM
I am going to put a 48-hour hold on any legislative action (other than any votes currently in progress) to allow the Governor to catch up on updating the wiki.  If the wiki is caught up before that 48-hour hold, I'll lift the hold.

Fair enough.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 23, 2012, 10:20:48 AM
Now, let's look at the facts: The Constitution. The Governor is responsible for updating the Wiki for "all legislation and occurrences during his or her tenure." During my tenure, only one piece of legislation has been signed. Granted, I do need to get around to adding that in (and will also add the failed immigration legislation). However, according to our own Constitution, which I assumed you would be well-versed on, I have 60 days to get that updated before any consequences occur. It hasn't even been close to that.

Most of the Wiki work that needs done is because my predecessor couldn't seem to be able to update the wiki while campaigning for reelection. In due time, I will have that updated, but we can't be punished for that.

There is absolutely no Constitutional backing for your decision to do this - if you really wanted me to get that one bill added right away, you could have just PMed me.

EDIT: Inks informed me via PM that his main reason was so that the original version of a bill we're currently amending could be displayed on the Wiki. That has now been done, so this "hold" can be taken down.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 23, 2012, 11:38:28 AM
My interpretation of clause 2 ("If appropriate action is not taken within 60 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Speaker of the Assembly shall become acting Governor and assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled the first clause of this section.") is that the Governor still has to update the wiki (otherwise, a previous governor could purposely not update the wiki so as to allow the Speaker to become the governor over the current Governor).  We should probably amend this to make it clearer.  So, for now, we'll move forward at a slow pace, and finish of the legislation we have, but let's not have any more bills introduced for the time being.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 23, 2012, 12:14:33 PM
Quote
Wiki Clarification Amendment

Article 1, Section 4 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

1. The Governor shall hold the responsibility of updating the Mideast regional Wiki for all legislation and occurrences during his or her tenure, as well as any legislation and occurrences not updated by their predecessor.
2. If appropriate action is not taken within 60 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrences during their tenure, or within 60 days from when they swore in as Governor for legislation or occurrences during their predecessor's tenure, the Speaker of the Assembly shall become acting Governor and assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled the first clause of this section.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 23, 2012, 12:31:21 PM
I had hoped to wait on this, but since another bill has been introduced, I had my own I'd drafted, which covers more than just the previous governor:

Quote
Amendment to Article I, Section IV

Article I, Section 4, of the Mideast Third Constitution is amended to read:

1. The Governor shall hold the responsibility of updating the Mideast regional Wiki for all legislation and occurrences during and prior to his or her tenure.
2. If appropriate action is not taken within 60 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Speaker of the Assembly shall become acting Governor and assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled the first clause of this section.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on October 23, 2012, 12:38:23 PM
I would recommend combining my Clause 1 and your Clause 2 - under your amendment, they could be on their first day as Governor and be overtaken by the Speaker. They should have a decent amount of time to get everything updated.

I have a couple more comments to make, but I'll save it for the debate thread, in an effort to not clutter this up.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 04, 2012, 11:47:50 PM
Quote
Preventing an Oligarchy Amendment

Article III, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

Should the Assembly pass ordinary legislation by a majority vote, then the Governor may sign such legislation into Law, or veto such legislation. A veto may be overturned upon the two-thirds vote if the Assembly consists of five members or by a unanimous vote if the Assembly consists of three members.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on November 11, 2012, 11:55:29 PM
     Greetings, Governor tmthforu94 and the Mideast Assembly. I had difficulty finding an appropriate place to address this issue to you all, so I have chosen to do so here.

     The South has recently passed a bill to lobby Dave Leip to create a board for our own region, where we may engage in our own business without confusion and lost threads. I encourage you to consider joining us in our quest for a doctrine of one region, one board. Thank you in advance for your consideration.

     Sincerely, Emperor PiT.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 12, 2012, 02:50:35 AM
I'll post the same thing I posted on The Atlas forum:

Keep in mind that the more boards we have (even if the threads stay the same), the more strain on the server, worsening the slowness of the forum.  Considering that the Regional Board currently has posts going back to October 28, I see this as unnecessary.  If we were in an ideal situation without current strain on the servers, I'd support it, but not right now.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 18, 2012, 01:09:20 PM
Quote
Fair Minimum Wage Act

1. The minimum wage in the Mideast region shall be set at $10.50


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Speed of Sound on November 18, 2012, 08:04:40 PM
Pardon my interruption everyone, but I just wanted to inform all that, given the change in power and the amount of time passed, I am giving an additional 48 hours to all regions to formally request a portion of the $8 billion from the Transportation Infrastructure Investment Act (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Transportation_Infrastructure_Investment_Act) for the "repair, expansion, or construction of rapid bus lines in metropolitan areas", or to modify the request which was made of the former SoIA. Should you all wish to make any request or modification, please let me know in my Official Department Office (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=164960.0). Thank you!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on November 18, 2012, 11:01:36 PM
Quote
Fair Minimum Wage Act

1. The minimum wage in the Mideast region shall be set at $10.50

There is no way I will support this or any lowering of our minimum wage. 


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on November 18, 2012, 11:15:32 PM
Quote
Fair Minimum Wage Act

1. The minimum wage in the Mideast region shall be set at $10.50

There is no way I will support this or any lowering of our minimum wage.  

Yeah, I don't think that I can support this either.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 18, 2012, 11:51:32 PM
I will be putting in a GM request to try and calculate just how many jobs would be created by lowering the minimum wage to a more practical level. $12.00 stifles job growth - high schoolers can forget about trying to get a part-time job.

I look forward to debating this more in the debate thread - I hope people will have an open mind on this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 21, 2012, 12:34:37 AM
Debate time has been abbreviated.  We will now move to a final vote.  This vote will last 24 hours, or until all Representatives have voted.

Quote
Governor's School Act

1. The Northeast Department of Education shall set up a summer institution, known as the Governor's School, for the education of the most gifted and skilled students, rising 10th, 11th and 12th graders; a student of the Governor's School shall be allowed to participate only once. The mission of the Governor's School shall be to identify the most outstanding students of the region and expose them to a learning environment that is both educationally enriching and fundamentally different form a regular school setting.

2. Each school shall be allowed to nominate no more than 2% of its class to the Governor's School.

3. Admission shall be based upon GPA, essays, teacher recommendations, and interviews.  Instructors shall be identified as the best in their selected field within the state and shall have to pass a rigorous application process to be allowed to teach at the program.

4. Tuition, room and board shall be paid for by the region.

5. The courses offered shall include, but not be limited to: Literature, Latin, French, Spanish, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Applied Engineering, Computer Science, Architecture, Applied and Visual Arts, Performing Arts, Music, Urban planning, and Sustainability and Environmental studies.  All classes taken at the Governor's School by each student will result in that student receiving high school credit for that class, and the ability to exempt from taking it in their regular high school.

6. Enrollment in each grade's class shall not exceed 1500 400 students.  All students shall be treated as equals with regards to grade level and not be divided in any respect based on age.

7. The Governor's School shall be hosted on the campus of the University at Buffalo.

8. The program shall last six (6) weeks and take place entirely within the summer break.

9. Upon passage of this act, the Department of Education is instructed to begin planning the first session of the Governor's School for the summer of 2014.

I would be interested in doing something similar to this in our region. GM Shua estimated the costs at $2 million. Thoughts?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 21, 2012, 05:30:00 AM
That's interesting... I could go for something like that.  I'd have to hear the pros and cons.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 21, 2012, 05:33:59 AM
Seeing as there is no legislation being debated, and there is no time to debate legislation, this Assembly is in recess until 12:00 P.M. EST on Friday, when the new session will begin.

Happy Thanksgiving, and enjoy 2 days off.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 22, 2012, 01:38:59 AM
Following other regions, we should also consider creating a regional seal. I have already spoken to Former Iowa John Engle via a paper and pencil letter, and he has agreed in principle to design it for us.

Looking at other items on the agenda, we will be discussing a jobs bill, as well as issuing funds from the federal government on transportation and on Hurricane Sandy relief. We also have money from the 2010 stimulus that still needs to be used - $3.9 billion, if I recall correctly. As of now, I'd recommend placing part of that on reconstructing area's damaged by the Hurricane, but we'll discuss that in it's own thread.

As I come up with more idea's, I'll add it to this point, in an effort to avoid cluttering. We accomplished a lot of things that needed to be accomplished last session - I hope every Assemblyman can bring at least one or two bills to the table when the new session begins tomorrow. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 22, 2012, 04:17:56 AM
And don't forget to swear in.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 23, 2012, 05:05:59 AM
We also need to make a plan for the money given to us for "for the repair, expansion, or construction of rapid bus lines in metropolitan areas.

Quote
Mideast Budget 2012

Transportation ($23.25 billion)
$9.00 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$4.00 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.25 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$1.05 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.45 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)
$6.45 billion ..... Non-Highway Roads (No Change)

That is our current transportation budget, just to have it out there. We'll have to put something together quickly, as the Department of Internal Affairs wants a response within two weeks on our plan.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 23, 2012, 02:51:25 PM
This session of the Assembly will now come to order.  As Dean of the Assembly, I will open the floor to nominations for Speaker.  Nominations will last for 24 hours.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 23, 2012, 03:12:38 PM
I strongly encourage the Assembly to elect Inks to Speaker again. He has done a wonderful job over the years, and has very extensive knowledge over Mideast law and procedures.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on November 23, 2012, 04:45:01 PM
I officially nominate Inks for Speaker.  We may not always agree, but his knowledge of Mideastern Assembly procedure is second to none.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kitteh on November 23, 2012, 05:26:35 PM
I officially nominate Inks for Speaker.  We may not always agree, but his knowledge of Mideastern Assembly procedure is second to none.

Seconded.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on November 23, 2012, 06:09:10 PM
I officially nominate Inks for Speaker.  We may not always agree, but his knowledge of Mideastern Assembly procedure is second to none.


Thirded


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 23, 2012, 06:16:06 PM
Quote
Effective Use of Government Money for Transportation Act

The Transportation Section of the Mideast Budget is hereby amended to read:

Transportation ($23.25 billion)
$9.00 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$4.00 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$2.25 billion ...... Rapid Bus Lines (+2.25 billion)
$0.25 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$1.05 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.45 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)
$6.45 billion ..... Non-Highway Roads (No Change)

Introducing this - I know it's terrible, but I want to get a thread going to discuss this. I'm going to have to rely on Assemblymen and others on this bill - metropolitan transportation is something I know very little of, as I've lived in rural areas my entire life.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kitteh on November 23, 2012, 07:09:20 PM
As I stated in the Mideast forum, transportation policy is an interest of mine, so I'd be happy to fill the Governor in. :)

"Rapid Bus Lines" could be interpreted a number of ways, but the most common meaning is for bus systems that have a dedicated lane in the road separate from cars and enclosed stations more like a rail line rather than just a bus stop. Often times it also refers to routes with bus priority signaling, a cool technology which involves GPS systems in each bus that relay data on bus locations to a central grid controlling streetlights, which then adjust traffic lights to prioritize the buses. So for example if a bus is approaching a light that would otherwise turn red the system keeps it green for an extra 10 seconds. The net result is that buses wait at stoplights very little, which can massively improve travel time, especially in urban areas.

A good picture of what this looks like (from Bogota, Colombia):
()

Most often the buses will be larger, articulated buses with a higher passenger capacity than "regular" buses:
()

Also BRT generally has fewer lines with fewer stops and the lines are more publicized and easier to understand than normal bus routes, so that for example you could produce a map that looks more like this:
()

Rather than this:
()

The general idea being that the bus system is functionally equivalent to a tram/light rail system  without having to pay the cost of laying down rails. It's supposed to be the best of both worlds; the cheapness of a bus system combined with the ability of a rail system to actually be faster than travel by car in some cases. It is very successful in a lot of developing countries. In North America, though, it's been slower to catch on, partly because a lot of North Americans have an image that buses are slower/less "quality" than rail systems, even when that isn't actually true in that particular case. So it's a tradeoff in some ways; significantly cheaper than a light rail/tram system but potentially attracting fewer riders. It also has somewhat less capacity than a rail system.

Overall, I'd support a bill expanding it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 23, 2012, 10:28:14 PM
A spin-off of a bill Governor Scott introduced over in the Northeast:

Quote
Smarter Spending Act
1. 50 percent of a regional agency's unspent funds the end of a fiscal session shall remain available to that agency for subsequent fiscal sessions.
2. 50 percent of these unspent funds shall be remitted to the Treasury.
3. Unspent funds carried to a subsequent fiscal session may not be taken into account in determining the amount by which an agency will be funded for each fiscal session.
4. The Governor, working with the Secretary of Internal Affairs, shall be responsible for oversight and reporting how much money which is saved by this legislation is allocated toward the deficit per session.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on November 23, 2012, 11:54:17 PM
I officially nominate Inks for Speaker.  We may not always agree, but his knowledge of Mideastern Assembly procedure is second to none.


Thirded

Fourthed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 24, 2012, 12:24:17 AM
Seeing as there is unanimous support for Inks.LWC for Speaker, I ask for unanimous consent that nominations be closed, and a unanimous ballot be cast for Inks.LWC.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 24, 2012, 12:25:12 AM
Seeing no objection, the motion has passed.  Inks.LWC is elected Speaker of the 27th Assembly.  We will now open the floor for legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 24, 2012, 08:14:13 PM
Wiki Senate Hearing Resolution
WHEREAS the wiki is severly lacking in updates, especially in the cagegories of statutes and court cases;
WHEREAS the regions depend on an updated wiki to pass and enforce their own laws;
THERFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Mideast Assembly urges the the Senate to hold a hearing to determine what should be done to rectify the problem.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on November 25, 2012, 04:55:41 PM
Repeal of the Mideast Abortion Statue II
1: The Mideast Abortion Statute II is hereby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on November 25, 2012, 04:59:43 PM
Mideast Bag Tax
1: A tax of 5 cents shall be charged for every non-reusable bag provided to a shopper by a store


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 30, 2012, 01:49:45 AM
Quote
Transgender Rights Bill

All Mideastern statutes and regulations which prohibit discrimination or disparate treatment under the law on the basis of, or guarantee legal rights or privileges regardless of, a subject's race, national origin, religion, gender, and sexual orientation shall henceforth be amended to include "transgender" as a similarly illegal basis under the definition of ''gender'', of discrimination or denial of legal rights.

To some who have been around for a while, this should look familiar. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 30, 2012, 04:28:08 PM
Quote
Transition to PR-STV Act

Section 2 of The Mideast Elections Consolidated Statue shall hereby be amended to read:

1. If a candidate for Governor shall gain a majority of highest preference votes, then that candidate shall be declared the winner of the election.
2. If no candidate has a majority of highest preference votes, the candidate with the fewest highest preferences shall be eliminated, and his or her votes redistributed according to the next-highest preferences of the voters. This process shall continue until a winner is declared
3. Elections for the Mideast Assembly shall be determined by using the proportional representation system by means of the single transferable vote (PR-STV).
4. For rules on the counting of votes for the PR-STV system, please refer to Section 2 of this act (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Proportional_Representation_Act).
5. If two or more candidates are tied in the proper votes needed for election, then a run-off shall occur.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on November 30, 2012, 06:50:16 PM
Quote
Transition to PR-STV Act

Section 2 of The Mideast Elections Consolidated Statue shall hereby be amended to read:

1. If a candidate for Governor shall gain a majority of highest preference votes, then that candidate shall be declared the winner of the election.
2. If no candidate has a majority of highest preference votes, the candidate with the fewest highest preferences shall be eliminated, and his or her votes redistributed according to the next-highest preferences of the voters. This process shall continue until a winner is declared
3. Elections for the Mideast Assembly shall be determined by using the proportional representation system by means of the single transferable vote (PR-STV).
4. For rules on the counting of votes for the PR-STV system, please refer to Section 2 of this act (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Proportional_Representation_Act).
5. If two or more candidates are tied in the proper votes needed for election, then a run-off shall occur.


I would strongly, strongly urge my fellow Assemblymen to vote against this bill.  With all due respect to the Governor, it would give his office too much power by almost guaranteeing that neither the left or the right would ever get a super-majority.  It would also make it much harder for moderates to get elected to the Senate.  Again, I would urge my friends in the Assembly to vote against this bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 30, 2012, 07:06:36 PM
Really? History disagrees with you. This is the same system that is used by other regional legislatures. Our Senate also uses it, and I can think of many, many moderates who have been elected because of it. This also isn't by any means a power grab - merely putting our region in line with the rest of Atlasia.

A super-majority is still very possible with this - I'll try and run through the November elections in my spare time, but I think you guys still would have the super majority with this system, so if you're concern here is losing it in January, don't fear, as your chances are about the same either way. But even still, I don't think a super-majority should be easy to attain regardless, and under the current system, if one side had five candidates running and were very crafty and strategic with voting, they could take all seats with just a bare majority. With PR-STV, such an un-democratic measure couldn't take place.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 01, 2012, 11:47:40 PM
This is a spin-off of a bill recently passed by the Northeast Assembly. The cost of the program will be two million dollars a year - this number was based off a projection by GM Shua.

Quote
The Mideast Governor's School Act

The purpose of this act is to identify the most outstanding students in our region and expose them to an educational opportunity that is both academically enriching and brings new challenges to the student.

Section 1: Establishment of Governor's School
1. The Mideast government shall appropriate two million dollars to establish a summer institution, known as the Governor's School, for the education of the most gifted and skilled students.
2. The mission of the Governor's School shall be to identify the most outstanding students of the region and expose them to a learning environment that is both educationally enriching and fundamentally different form a regular school setting.
3. The Governor's School shall be hosted on the campus of Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana.
4. The program shall last six weeks in the months of June and July.

Section 2: Admission
1: In order to be eligible for the Governor's School, you must be a rising student in the tenth, eleventh, or twelfth grade at any secondary school in the Mideast Region. Students who are home-schooled shall also be eligible.
2. Admission shall be based upon grade-point average, essays, teacher recommendations, and a telephone and/or video interview.
3. Instructors for the school shall be chosen by a government board after completing an application process.
4. Tuition and room and board shall be paid for by the region. The only cost to the students shall be transportation.

Section 3: Details of School
1. The courses offered shall include, but not be limited to: Literature, Latin, French, Spanish, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Applied Engineering, Computer Science, Architecture, Applied and Visual Arts, Performing Arts, Music, Urban planning, and Sustainability and Environmental studies.
2. All classes taken at the Governor's School by each student will result in that student receiving high school credit for that class, and the ability to exempt from taking it in their regular high school. Students may also be eligible for college credit through Advanced Placement testing, which will be offered for various courses in the program.
3. Enrollment in each grade's class shall not exceed four hundred students.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on December 05, 2012, 08:22:21 PM
Quote
Gubernatorial Vacancy Amendment

Article 1, Section 3 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

1. If the Governorship shall fall vacant less than 15 days before the next regularly scheduled election, the Speaker of the Assembly shall become Governor.
2. If both the Governorship and Speakership shall fall vacant then the Assembly shall elect a new Speaker who shall subsequently become Acting Governor or Governor, pursuant to the time of the gubernatorial vacancy.
3. In the event that the Governor does not log-in to the Atlas Forum for 36 hours, then the Assembly may vote to install the Speaker as Acting Governor.
4. If the Governorship shall fall vacant 15 days or more before the next regularly scheduled election, then a special election shall be administered to fill the vacancy.
5. Should the Governor shall remain in office until the election of a successor, he shall administer the special election, but henceforth resign upon the immediate certification of the result. If not, the Speaker of the Assembly shall become Acting Governor and administer the election.
6. This election shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the Thursday subsequent to the one following the immediately vacancy and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the Friday subsequent to the one immediately following the vacancy, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
7. If a special election is held, the victor shall take the position of Governor immediately upon certification of its results.

This will put our region's choice for Governor in the people's hands if a vacancy occurs.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 05, 2012, 09:53:02 PM
As it will likely fail at the federal level (This might be best at the regional level anyway), I introduce the following bill:

Quote
The Legalization of Poker Act

1.  This Act may also be cited as the "BenConstine Finally Getting His One of His Lifetime Goals Accomplished" Act.
2.  All forms of poker shall hereby be defined as games of both skill and chance.
3.  These games, both in person and online, are fully legal in the Mideast Region.
4.  All for Mideastern-based profit poker websites shall hereby have all their websites returned and their bank accounts unfrozen.
5.  All charges pending by the Mideast government against individuals for crimes directly related to operating poker games and/or websites shall be dropped immediately.

I guess you could say this is on behalf of a constituent.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on December 05, 2012, 09:57:34 PM
As it will likely fail at the federal level (This might be best at the regional level anyway), I introduce the following bill:

Quote
The Legalization of Poker Act

1.  This Act may also be cited as the "BenConstine Finally Getting His One of His Lifetime Goals Accomplished" Act.
2.  All forms of poker shall hereby be defined as games of both skill and chance.
3.  These games, both in person and online, are fully legal in the Mideast Region.
4.  All for Mideastern-based profit poker websites shall hereby have all their websites returned and their bank accounts unfrozen.
5.  All charges pending by the Mideast government against individuals for crimes directly related to operating poker games and/or websites shall be dropped immediately.

I guess you could say this is on behalf of a constituent.

I wholeheartedly support this bill :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kitteh on December 05, 2012, 10:31:19 PM
As it will likely fail at the federal level (This might be best at the regional level anyway), I introduce the following bill:

Quote
The Legalization of Poker Act

1.  This Act may also be cited as the "BenConstine Finally Getting His One of His Lifetime Goals Accomplished" Act.
2.  All forms of poker shall hereby be defined as games of both skill and chance.
3.  These games, both in person and online, are fully legal in the Mideast Region.
4.  All for Mideastern-based profit poker websites shall hereby have all their websites returned and their bank accounts unfrozen.
5.  All charges pending by the Mideast government against individuals for crimes directly related to operating poker games and/or websites shall be dropped immediately.

I guess you could say this is on behalf of a constituent.

I wholeheartedly support this bill :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 05, 2012, 10:33:34 PM
Please keep debate and support for bills to their respective threads.  Thank you.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 06, 2012, 12:24:19 AM
Directive to Regional Offices on the Status of Texas
WHEREAS Article IV, Section 2.2 of the Third Atlasian Constitution states, "The consent of the Senate is required for any change in Region boundaries."
WHEREAS Article IV, Section 2.3 of the Third Atlasian Constitution states, "The consent of the Regions being changed is required."
WHEREAS Texas has seceded from the Midwest to form a separate region without the consent of the Imperial Dominion of the South nor the Senate

BE IT RESOLVED that all offices of the Mideast and all government officials acting in their official capacity do not recognize the secession of Texas as legal, and are hereby directed to recognize Texas as a member of the Imperial Dominion of the South.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on December 13, 2012, 08:42:21 PM
Quote

Assembly Vacancy Amendment

Article III, Section 1, Part 6 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

- If a vacancy shall occur in the Mideast Assembly more than 14 days before the next regularly scheduled election for the Assembly, the Governor of the Mideast shall nominate a candidate to serve the remainder of the Term.
- Upon the Governor making his appointment, the Speaker of the Mideast Assembly shall open a thread within 72 hours of the time of the appointment, henceforth referred to in this Bill as the Mideast Assembly Appointment Thread, in the Regional Governments subforum, in which the Governor's Nominee shall be debated, and ultimately voted upon, by the Assembly.
- All other regulations which apply to a regular Bill under consideration by the Mideast Assembly shall apply to the Mideast Senate Appointment Thread.
- A final vote must be called in the Mideast Assembly Appointment Thread within 96 hours of the thread being opened.
- A tie in the Mideast Assembly will result in a confirmation of the appointee


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 17, 2012, 12:32:54 AM
Quote
Mideast Non-Reusable Bag Act
1. Beginning in 2014, no non-reusable bag shall be provided to a shopper in any store in the Mideast region.
2. A non-reusable bag is hereby defined as a disposable plastic bag.
3. All paper bags distributed in the Mideast Region must be made of at least fifty percent recycled material.
4. A tax of 7 cents shall be charged for every paper bag distributed in the Mideast Region


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 17, 2012, 12:39:19 AM
I'm going to craft legislation that deals with how a veto is handled - I like the idea of doing it how the federal government does where folks vote on the President's amendment first, then vote on the override.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on December 20, 2012, 01:41:44 AM
Quote
Assembly Expansion Amendment

Article III, Section 1, Clause 2 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:
Quote
The Assembly shall be composed of seven members in an election where eight or more candidates have made an official candidate declaration by the ballot deadline established in Article IV, Section 1., Clause 7. The Assembly shall be composed of five members in an election where six or more candidates have made an official candidate declaration by the ballot deadline established in Article IV, Section 1., Clause 7. The Assembly shall be composed of three members in an election where five or less candidates have made an official declaration by the ballot deadline established in Article IV, Section 1., Clause 7. Members of the Assembly must be registered voters residing in the Mideast Region.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 20, 2012, 01:42:49 AM
Quote
Assembly Expansion Amendment

Article III, Section 1, Clause 2 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:
Quote
The Assembly shall be composed of seven members in an election where eight or more candidates have made an official candidate declaration by the ballot deadline established in Article IV, Section 1., Clause 7. The Assembly shall be composed of five members in an election where six or more candidates have made an official candidate declaration by the ballot deadline established in Article IV, Section 1., Clause 7. The Assembly shall be composed of three members in an election where five or less candidates have made an official declaration by the ballot deadline established in Article IV, Section 1., Clause 7. Members of the Assembly must be registered voters residing in the Mideast Region.

This is something I brought up with Gass earlier through PM. I'm currently not 100% convinced about it, but would like to see some healthy discussion on it, as would Assemblyman Gass. :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 20, 2012, 09:36:52 PM
Quote
Better Gubernatorial Vacancy Amendment

Article 1, Section 3 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

1. If the Governorship shall fall vacant less than 30 days before the next regularly scheduled Gubernatorial election, the Speaker of the Assembly shall become Governor. If the Governorship shall fall vacant 30 days or longer before the next regularly scheduled Gubernatorial election, then a special election shall be administered by the Speaker to fill the vacancy.
2. This election shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the Thursday subsequent to the one immediately following the vacancy and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the Friday subsequent to the one immediately following the vacancy, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
3. If both the Governorship and Speakership shall fall vacant then the Assembly shall elect a new Speaker from within their body who shall subsequently become Acting Governor or Governor, pursuant to the time of the gubernatorial vacancy.
4. In the event that the Governor does not log-in to the Atlas Forum for 36 hours, then the Assembly may vote to install the Speaker as Acting Governor.
5. If a special election is held, the victor shall take the position of Governor immediately upon certification of its results.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on December 22, 2012, 08:23:14 AM
Quote
Assembly Expansion Amendment

Article III, Section 1, Clause 2 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:
Quote
The Assembly shall be composed of seven members in an election where eight or more candidates have made an official candidate declaration by the ballot deadline established in Article IV, Section 1., Clause 7. The Assembly shall be composed of five members in an election where six or more candidates have made an official candidate declaration by the ballot deadline established in Article IV, Section 1., Clause 7. The Assembly shall be composed of three members in an election where five or less candidates have made an official declaration by the ballot deadline established in Article IV, Section 1., Clause 7. Members of the Assembly must be registered voters residing in the Mideast Region.


Since there is still not a thread for this bill, I'll just say here that this bill has my enthusiastic support.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on December 22, 2012, 10:28:54 AM
Quote
Re-Establishment of a Lieutenant Governor Amendment

Article I, Section 3 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 3: Vacancy of the Governorship
1. If the Governorship shall fall vacant, the Lieutenant Governor shall become Governor.
2. If both the Governorship and Lieutenant Governorship shall fall vacant then the Speaker of the Assembly shall become Governor.
3. In the event that the Governor does not log-in to the Atlas Forum for 36 hours, then the Assembly may vote to install the Lieutenant Governor as Acting Governor.

Article I, Section 4 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 4: The Wiki
2. If appropriate action is not taken within 60 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Lieutenant Governor shall become acting Governor and assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor has fulfilled the first clause of this section.

Article I of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to include the subsequent Section 5, Section 6, and Section 7:

Quote
Section 5: The Lieutenant Governor
1. All Executive power of the Mideast not vested in the Governor shall be vested in the Lieutenant Governor.
2. No person shall be Lieutenant Governor who is not a registered voter residing in the Mideast Region.
3. In order to qualify for elective office, a candidate must be registered to vote in the Mideast.

Section 6: Lieutenant Gubernatorial Elections
1. Elections to the post of Lieutenant Governor shall be held in the months of March, July, and November. Elections shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the third Thursday of the month and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
2. Recall votes shall begin within ten days of their accumulating the necessary support and shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on a Thursday and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
3. The voting system used for Lieutenant Gubernatorial elections shall be the same as that used for Gubernatorial Elections

Section 7: Vacancy of the Lieutenant Governorship
1. If the Lieutenant Governorship shall fall vacant, the Speaker of the Assembly shall perform the functions of the Lieutenant Governor, with the exceptions of breaking tied votes and making appointments to the Superior Court, until a successor is confirmed.
2. If a vacancy shall occur in the Lieutenant Governorship more than 10 days before the next regularly scheduled election for that Seat, the Governor of the Mideast shall nominate a candidate to serve the remainder of the Term.
3. Upon the Governor making his appointment, the Speaker of the Mideast Assembly shall open a thread within 72 hours of the time of the appointment, henceforth referred to in this Bill as the Mideast Assembly Appointment Thread, in the Regional Governments subforum, in which the Governor's Nominee shall be debated, and ultimately voted upon, by the Assembly.
4. All other regulations which apply to a regular Bill under consideration by the Mideast Assembly shall apply to the Mideast Lieutenant Governor Appointment Thread.
5. A final vote must be called in the Mideast Lieutenant Governor Appointment Thread within 96 hours of the thread being opened.

Article II, Section 2 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 2: Appointment to the Superior Court
1. In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated jointly by the Governor and Lieutenant Governor of the Mideast. In the event that 60 hours elapse from the time of a case being filed in the Mideast Superior Court without such action taken by the Governor, said responsibility shall fall exclusively to the Lieutenant Governor. In the event that 60 hours elapse from the time of a case being filed in the Mideast Superior Court without such action taken by the Lieutenant Governor, said responsibility shall fall exclusively to the Governor. In the event that 60 hours elapse from the time of a case being filed in the Mideast Superior Court without such action taken by the Governor or Lieutenant Governor, said responsibility shall fall exclusively to the Speaker of the Assembly.

Article III, Section 1 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
6. Vacancies in the Assembly shall be filled in a manner specified by Law, and until such determination is made, by Lieutenant Gubernatorial appointment.

Article III, Section 2 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
2. Legislation shall be considered by the Assembly upon petition of any Assembly member, the Governor, the Lieutenant Governor or three Mideast citizens.

7. In the event of a tied vote, the Lieutenant Governor shall be responsible for casting a vote to break the tie.

Article IV, Section 1 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
5. The Governor shall administer all elections, propositions, Constitutional Amendments and recalls, unless it be his recall or he shall be unavailable, in which case the Lieutenant Governor shall administer the elections. If he or she is also unavailable, then the Speaker shall administer the elections. If he or she is not available, then the Judge shall administer the elections.

Article VI, Section 1 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 1: Amendment
1. The Governor, the Lieutenant Governor, the Assembly, or a group of at least 25% of the registered voters in the Mideast shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of this Constitution when ratified by a two-thirds majority of the People voting.

All subsections of the Mideast Constitution (i.e. Part 1 of Article III, Section 5) not modified by this Act shall remain intact.

My cosponsor is Mr. X.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on December 22, 2012, 12:41:18 PM
Quote
Amendment to the Labor Relations Act

The Labor Relations Act shall hereby be amended to read:

Section 1
1. It is hereby unlawful in the Mideast Region for any company or organization to prevent an employee from joining a union or labor organization.
2. It is hereby unlawful in the Mideast Region for any company to prevent a union or labor organization from being established or to force a union or labor organization to disband.
3. Workers in all professions are allowed to unionize; this includes the fallow professions that were once prohibited:
      o Agricultural workers
      o Domestic workers
      o First-level managers
      o Independent contractors
      o Regional and state government workers
4. Companies in violation of Sections 1, 2, and 3 will be subject with punishment, with fines totaling no more than twenty percent of their annual gross income .

Section 2
1. An additional ballot to require an employer recognize a union is required unless seventy-five percent of workers have signed cards expressing their desire to establish a union.
2. Companies in violation of Clauses 1 will be subject with punishment, with fines totaling no more than fifteen percent of their annual gross income.

Section 3
1. "Emergency public service employee" is defined as employees of local or regional government employees employed within the Mideast Region whose employment directly effects the security and safety of the citizens of the Mideast Region. This definition applies to local and regional law enforcement officers and command staff, correctional officers and command staff, prison guards and command staff, emergency medical personnel, local and regional prosecutors, regional public defenders, local and regional firefighters, and local and regional employees of departments dealing with road repair, snow removal, trash collection, and disaster relief.
2. As Emergency public service employees are essential to protecting the public and providing security for all citizens of the Mideast region, unions/labor organizations representing emergency public service employees are prohibited from striking to resolve disputes in contract negotiations. If no contract has been agreed to within 60 days of the start of negotiations, either the union/labor organization or the local or regional government can declare that negotiations are at an impasse. Negotiations are then sent to binding arbitration before the Mideast Superior Court Judge. After such arbitration, either side has two weeks to seek review before the Supreme Court of Atlasia for final binding arbitration.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 22, 2012, 12:44:45 PM
FYI, it's a very busy time for me through the holidays, so things may not move quite as quickly as normal, but I do hope business as usual will resume by December 28th.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on December 23, 2012, 08:15:10 AM
The Affordable Education Act of 2012

Section 1:
Clause 1: The Mideast will pay for 50% of the cost of any student's 4-year college education in the region who meets the conditions described in Clauses 2 and 3.
Clause 2: Clause 1 only applies to students who have both graduated from a Mideastern public high school with an A- or A G.P.A, received a 30 or higher overall on the ACT, or received a 2200 or higher on the SAT.
Clause 3: Clause 1 one applies to students who are attending a public university in the Mideast.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 23, 2012, 08:38:03 AM
Just a quick note - The bill Mr. X just introduced will have to be amended, as I won't support it in its current form. Why? Well, for most public universities, having those type of grades and scores would likely give them almost a free-ride scholarship anyways. If we do something, I want there to be income requirements and they would need to be lower - I'd recommend looking at what the requirements are for the Georgia Hope scholarship. (Barnes probably knows this, if someone could inquire)



I am now leaving for Christmas break! I could be on here only a limited amount, or none at all! Bear with me.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on December 23, 2012, 09:42:39 AM
Just a quick note - The bill Mr. X just introduced will have to be amended, as I won't support it in its current form. Why? Well, for most public universities, having those type of grades and scores would likely give them almost a free-ride scholarship anyways. If we do something, I want there to be income requirements and they would need to be lower - I'd recommend looking at what the requirements are for the Georgia Hope scholarship. (Barnes probably knows this, if someone could inquire)



I am now leaving for Christmas break! I could be on here only a limited amount, or none at all! Bear with me.

@ Governor Tmthforu94: I agree and I assumed (and personally believe) that it would need to be amended, but there were certain aspects I was unsure about or unfamiliar with (I wanted input from both you and my fellow Assemblymen).  However, I think the overall idea is a really good one and wanted to at least get it out there so we can start deciding what form the bill should take.  Essentially, this proposal is like a legislative rough-draft and I was hoping for help turning it into a final draft (if that makes sense).


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 23, 2012, 12:23:05 PM
Governor, how long will you be without Internet?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 23, 2012, 02:45:20 PM
Right now I'm on my phone without Wifi - if I can't access it, it will be until the 30th. I should be able to, though. Still wont be on much, potato.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 23, 2012, 10:54:55 PM
Right now I'm on my phone without Wifi - if I can't access it, it will be until the 30th. I should be able to, though. Still wont be on much, potato.

Potato?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on December 23, 2012, 10:56:22 PM
Right now I'm on my phone without Wifi - if I can't access it, it will be until the 30th. I should be able to, though. Still wont be on much, potato.

Potato?

He was probably eating one or thinking of one when he typed the message. I wouldn't be surprised- they have an excellent taste though they're not that good for you in excess.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 24, 2012, 01:32:38 AM
The Assembly is now in recess until December 27.  Merry Christmas, everyone.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 25, 2012, 12:04:27 AM
I'd like to wish you all a very Merry Christmas! :) Enjoy your time with family and friends during this special season. Remember the reason for the season! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on December 25, 2012, 12:07:41 AM
Thank you, Governor and Mr. Speaker.

Merry Christmas to all my fellow Assemblymen, the Governor, Citizenry of Atlasia and the World! Make the most of your time with loved ones and be sure to treat animals with kindness! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on December 25, 2012, 09:08:13 AM
Happy Holidays to all :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 25, 2012, 09:27:33 AM
Merry Christmas, and Happy Holidays!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 27, 2012, 01:51:28 AM
Introducing a constitutional amendment requiring a budget. I expect there to be amendments to it, as this is a rough sketch.

Quote
Mideastern Budget Amendment

Article VII of the Mideast Constitution shall be established and shall read:
Quote
Article VII: Miscellaneous

Section 1: Budget
1. The Mideast Government shall be responsible for passing an annual budget. This budget must be on the Governor's desk by July 1st of each year.
2. The Mideast Budget may not exceed 125% of total revenue brought in per fiscal year.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 01, 2013, 05:20:22 PM
Just as a reminder, we are in recess today, as it is a public holiday.  Once we resume the session, I'll hopefully be bringing things to vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 03, 2013, 03:26:59 PM
Just a note: On any votes still open when Mr. X's replacement is made, if Mr. X has voted, his replacement will NOT be allowed to vote.  On any votes where he has not voted, his replacement will be allowed to vote.  I don't anticipate there being any votes where his replacement will be allowed to vote, but I would encourage Mr. X to vote anywhere he wants to.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on January 03, 2013, 03:29:43 PM
Just a note: On any votes still open when Mr. X's replacement is made, if Mr. X has voted, his replacement will NOT be allowed to vote.  On any votes where he has not voted, his replacement will be allowed to vote.  I don't anticipate there being any votes where his replacement will be allowed to vote, but I would encourage Mr. X to vote anywhere he wants to.

Believe me, I intend to vote on everything I can down to the moment I leave office ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 06, 2013, 09:34:46 PM
An Amendment Fixing an oversight in Article II

Article II, Section 2 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 2: Appointment to the Superior Court
1. In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated by the Governor of the Mideast. In the event that 60 hours elapse from the time of a vacancy occurring case being filed in the Mideast Superior Court without such action taken by the Governor, said responsibility shall fall exclusively to the Speaker of the Assembly.
2. The nomination shall then be confirmed by a majority vote of the Assembly.
3. A nomination to the Superior Court, unless terminated early by resignation or recall, or impeachment shall be subject to reconfirmation by majority vote of the Mideastern Assembly every third session of the Assembly after initial confirmation. Should the Assembly fail to take a vote on renomination of the Superior Court Judge during the session in which the judge is normally subject to reconfirmation, it will act as if the Judge is reconfirmed accordingly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 16, 2013, 12:15:11 AM
Amendment to Add Codified Informal Procedures to the Mideast Assembly Procedure for Legislative Debate and Voting
The following provisions, having been the informal procedures of the Mideast Assembly, shall be codified by being amended into the Mideast Assembly Procedure for Legislative Debate and Voting:

•The Dean of the Assembly shall be the Assemblyman with the longest consecutive service in the Assembly.
•At the beginning of a new session, the Dean of the Assembly shall hold nominations for Speaker of the Assembly.
•Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN.
•For legislation to pass, the number of AYE votes cast must be higher than the number of NAY votes.
•An ABSTAIN vote shall count as a vote, but neither as an AYE or a NAY.
•When a vote requires a two-thirds majority, 2/3 shall be calculated as the number of Assemblyman serving, rather than the number voting.
•The following are guidelines that are subject to the discretion of the Speaker of the Assembly:
     ‣Votes on amendments will last 24 hours.
     ‣Final votes will last 48 hours.
     ‣Votes to override a veto will last 48 hours.
     ‣Voting on an amendment or bill will not begin until at least 24 hours after being introduced.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 16, 2013, 07:38:08 AM
The cutoff for new legislation to be introduced is going to be Monday.  I'd rather not deal with any new bills after that, as it gets cramped up to the end of the session (especially if there are amendments).  So if you have any new bills, try to get them in this weekend, but at least no later than Monday.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on January 20, 2013, 07:39:15 PM
Will bills still in debate cross over to the new Assembly or will they have to be reintroduced?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 20, 2013, 07:42:30 PM
Will bills still in debate cross over to the new Assembly or will they have to be reintroduced?

They will have to be reintroduced.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 24, 2013, 04:07:25 PM
The Assembly is now in recess until 12:00 P.M. EST tomorrow, Friday, January 25, 2013, when the new session shall begin.  New members, remember to swear in after noon tomorrow.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 25, 2013, 12:07:01 PM
The new session of the Assembly will now come to order.  Please swear in.  I will now open nominations for Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on January 25, 2013, 01:00:07 PM
I re-nominate our region's great public servant, Inks.LWC, for another term as Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on January 25, 2013, 01:03:26 PM
I re-nominate our region's great public servant, Inks.LWC, for another term as Speaker.

This and I don't think anyone else knows the rules as well :p


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on January 26, 2013, 09:38:54 PM
Since no one else is doing it, I ask unanimous consent that Inks.LWC be elected Speaker of the Assembly (I don't think this is allowed; I'm just trying to bring attention back to this procedure so we can complete it and get to legislative work). :P





Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 27, 2013, 02:03:05 AM
Seeing no objection, the motion carries, and Inks.LWC is elected Speaker.

Legislation may now be introduced.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on January 27, 2013, 09:11:58 AM
Quote
Re-Establishment of a Lieutenant Governor Amendment
Article I, Section 1 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
1. The Executive power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Governor. He shall be elected with a Lieutenant Governor for a term of four months.
2. No person shall be Governor or Lieutenant Governor who is not a registered voter residing in the Mideast Region.
3. In order to qualify for elective office, a candidate must be registered to vote in the Mideast.

Article I, Section 3 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 3: Vacancy of the Governor and Lieutenant Governor
1. If the Governorship shall fall vacant, the Lieutenant Governor shall become Governor.
2. If the Lieutenant Governor position shall fall vacant, the Governor shall appoint a replacement, who must be confirmed by a majority of the Assembly.
2. If both the Governorship and Lieutenant Governorship shall fall vacant then the Speaker of the Assembly shall become Governor.
3. In the event that the Governor does not log-in to the Atlas Forum for 36 hours, then the Assembly may vote to install the Lieutenant Governor as Acting Governor.

Article I, Section 4 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 4: The Wiki
1. The Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall hold the responsibility of updating the Mideast regional Wiki for all legislation and occurrences during and prior to his or her tenure.
2. If appropriate action is not taken within 60 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Speaker of the Assembly shall become acting Governor and assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the administration has fulfilled the first clause of this section.
3. Should the administration have legislation and occurrences to update from a prior administration, they shall have 2 days from his first swearing in to begin making necessary updates and 28 additional days to complete the necessary updates.

Article II, Section 2 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 2: Appointment to the Superior Court
1. In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated jointly by the Governor and Lieutenant Governor of the Mideast. In the event that 60 hours elapse from the time of a case being filed in the Mideast Superior Court without such action taken by one of the aforementioned officials, said responsibility shall fall exclusively on the other aforementioned official. If action is not taken by either of these officials, said responsibility shall fall exclusively to the Speaker of the Assembly.
2. The nomination shall then be confirmed by a majority vote of the Assembly.

Article III, Section 1 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
6. Vacancies in the Assembly shall be appointed by the Governor.

Article III, Section 2 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
2. Legislation shall be considered by the Assembly upon petition of any Assembly member, the Governor, the Lieutenant Governor or three Mideast citizens.

Article III, Section 6 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 6: Senate Vacancy
1. If the Mideast Regional Senate Seat shall become vacant, the Governor and Lieutenant Governor of the Mideast shall jointly nominate a candidate to serve the remainder of the Term. In the event that 48 hours elapse without such action taken, said responsibility shall fall to the Speaker of the Assembly
2. Upon the making of the appointment, the Speaker of the Mideast Assembly shall open a thread within 48 hours of the time of the appointment, henceforth referred to in this Bill as the Mideast Assembly Appointment Thread, in the Regional Governments subforum, in which the Nominee shall be debated, and ultimately voted upon, by the Assembly.

Article IV, Section 1 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
5. The Governor shall administer all elections, propositions, Constitutional Amendments and recalls, unless it be his recall or he shall be unavailable, in which case the Lieutenant Governor shall administer the elections. If he or she is also unavailable, then the Speaker shall administer the elections. If he or she is not available, then the Judge shall administer the elections.

Article VI, Section 1 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 1: Amendment
1. The Governor, the Lieutenant Governor, the Assembly, or a group of at least 25% of the registered voters in the Mideast shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of this Constitution when ratified by a two-thirds majority of the People voting.

All subsections of the Mideast Constitution (i.e. Part 1 of Article III, Section 5) not modified by this Act shall remain intact.

Sponsor- Talleyrand (TexasDem)
Cosponser- Mr. X

I just copied Tmth's updated bill and inserted the Senate Vacancy change, so I'm reasonably confident it's up to date.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 27, 2013, 07:13:34 PM
Can you bold any additions to the current language and strike-out any deletions from the current language?  I did that right before the last vote we held, and I really don't feel like doing it again.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on January 27, 2013, 10:12:03 PM
Quote
Re-Establishment of a Lieutenant Governor Amendment
Article I, Section 1 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
1. The Executive power of the Mideast shall be vested in the Governor. He shall be elected with a Lieutenant Governor for a term of four months.
2. No person shall be Governor or Lieutenant Governor who is not a registered voter residing in the Mideast Region.
3. In order to qualify for elective office, a candidate must be registered to vote in the Mideast.

Article I, Section 3 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 3: Vacancy of the Governor and Lieutenant Governor
1. If the Governorship shall fall vacant, the Speaker of the Assembly shall become Governor the Lieutenant Governor shall become Governor.
2.If both the Governorship and Speakership shall fall vacant then the vacancy shall be filled in a manner specified by Law.
2. If the Lieutenant Governor position shall fall vacant, the Governor shall appoint a replacement, who must be confirmed by a majority of the Assembly.
3. If both the Governorship and Lieutenant Governorship shall fall vacant then the Speaker of the Assembly shall become Governor.

3.4. In the event that the Governor does not log-in to the Atlas Forum for 36 hours, then the Assembly may vote to install the Speaker Lieutenant Governor as Acting Governor.

Article I, Section 4 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 4: The Wiki
1. The Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall hold the responsibility of updating the Mideast regional Wiki for all legislation and occurrences during and prior to his or her tenure.
2. If appropriate action is not taken within 60 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Speaker of the Assembly shall become acting Governor and assume all responsibilities of the Governor until such time as the Governor administration has fulfilled the first clause of this section.
3. Should a Governor the administration have legislation and occurrences to update from a prior administration, they shall have 2 days from his first swearing in to begin making necessary updates and 28 additional days to complete the necessary updates.

Article II, Section 2 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 2: Appointment to the Superior Court
1. In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated jointly by the Governor and Lieutenant Governor of the Mideast. In the event that 60 hours elapse from the time of a case being filed in the Mideast Superior Court without such action taken by one of the aforementioned officials, said responsibility shall fall exclusively on the other aforementioned official. If action is not taken by either of these officials, said responsibility shall fall exclusively to the Speaker of the Assembly.
2. The nomination shall then be confirmed by a majority vote of the Assembly.

Article III, Section 1 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
6. Vacancies in the Assembly shall be filled in a manner specified by Law, and until such determination is made, by Gubernatorial appointment by an appointment from the Governor.

Article III, Section 2 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
2. Legislation shall be considered by the Assembly upon petition of any Assembly member, the Governor, the Lieutenant Governor or two three Mideast citizens.

Article III, Section 6 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 6: Senate Vacancy
1. If the Mideast Regional Senate Seat shall become vacant, the Governor and Lieutenant Governor of the Mideast shall jointly nominate a candidate to serve the remainder of the Term. In the event that 48 hours elapse without such action taken, said responsibility shall fall to the Speaker of the Assembly
2. Upon the Governor making of the appointment, the Speaker of the Mideast Assembly shall open a thread within 72 48 hours of the time of the appointment, henceforth referred to in this Bill as the Mideast Assembly Appointment Thread, in the Regional Governments subforum, in which the Governor's Nominee shall be debated, and ultimately voted upon, by the Assembly.

Article IV, Section 1 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
5. The Governor shall administer all elections, propositions, Constitutional Amendments and recalls, unless it be his recall or he shall be unavailable, in which case the Speaker Lieutenant Governor shall administer the elections. If he or she is also unavailable, then the Speaker shall administer the elections. If he or she is not available also unavailable, then the Judge shall administer the elections.

Article VI, Section 1 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby amended to read:

Quote
Section 1: Amendment
1. The Governor, the Lieutenant Governor, the Assembly, or a group of at least 25% of the registered voters in the Mideast shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of this Constitution when ratified by a two-thirds majority of the People voting.

All clauses of the Mideast Constitution (i.e. Part 1 of Article III, Section 5) not modified by this Act shall remain intact.

I used the version you made, but added in the senate vacancy amendment.

Sponsor- Talleyrand
Cosponsor- Mr. X


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on January 28, 2013, 12:45:03 AM
Quote
Mideast Budget Amendment

Quote
Article VII of the Mideast Constitution shall be established and shall read:

Article VII: Miscellaneous

Section 1: Budget
1. The Mideast Government shall be responsible for passing an annual budget. This budget must be on the Governor's desk by July 1st of each year.
2. The Mideast Budget may not exceed 115% of total revenue brought in per fiscal year.
3. In case of emergency in which the Mideast Government needs to pass a budget greater then 115% of total revenue, the Assembly may approve such a budget with a 2/3rds majority.
4. The total debt of the Mideast Government shall not exceed $50 billion.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on January 28, 2013, 12:49:02 AM
Governor, could we get closer to either 150% or a $100 billion deficit?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on January 28, 2013, 12:58:05 AM
Governor, could we get closer to either 150% or a $100 billion deficit?
150% is completely ridiculous. If we're going to let it go that high, we might as well not have a limit at all.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on January 28, 2013, 01:00:25 AM
Governor, could we get closer to either 150% or a $100 billion deficit?
150% is completely ridiculous. If we're going to let it go that high, we might as well not have a limit at all.

What about $100 billion?  I just feel like the current one is too restrictive.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 28, 2013, 01:55:03 AM
Governor, could we get closer to either 150% or a $100 billion deficit?
150% is completely ridiculous. If we're going to let it go that high, we might as well not have a limit at all.

What about $100 billion?  I just feel like the current one is too restrictive.

That's the point... if it's not restrictive, what's the incentive to pass a balanced budget?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 28, 2013, 01:58:11 AM
Quote
Mideast Budget Amendment

Quote
Article VII of the Mideast Constitution shall be established and shall read:

Article VII: Miscellaneous

Section 1: Budget
1. The Mideast Government shall be responsible for passing an annual budget. This budget must be on the Governor's desk by July 1st of each year.
2. The Mideast Budget may not exceed 115% of total revenue brought in per fiscal year.
3. In case of emergency in which the Mideast Government needs to pass a budget greater then 115% of total revenue, the Assembly may approve such a budget with a 2/3rds majority.
4. The total debt of the Mideast Government shall not exceed $50 billion.

Are you proposing this to the Assembly? Or are you placing this on the ballot?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on January 28, 2013, 02:06:45 AM
Assembly - I have another idea for an amendment to it, but haven't written it out yet.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Franzl on January 28, 2013, 03:24:42 AM
My general opposition will likely remain irrespective of the exact number you agree on.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on January 30, 2013, 09:22:35 AM
Quote
Amendment to the Mideast Abortion Statute II

The Mideast Abortion Statute II is hereby amended to read as follows:

1: No abortions shall be permitted after the start of the second trimester, except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape/incest.

2: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall have any existing license from the Mideast Region or a subdivision thereof to practice a medical profession revoked for up to three years.

3: Any individual who induces a prohibited abortion shall be sentenced to a fine no larger than $50,000. Any person knowingly facilitating the inducement of a prohibited abortion shall be subject to a criminal fine no larger than $10,000.

4: Any individual under the age of eighteen must notify a parent or guardian in order to have an abortion, except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape/incest.

There were two typos in section 3; the changes I made in this section are merely corrections.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on February 01, 2013, 11:56:01 AM
With permission from Governor Scott...

Quote
Helping Our Farmers Act

Section 1 - Definitions
1. The word "farm" in this act shall be defined as any land used to produce crops, livestock, specialty livestock, or grazing and includes woodland and wasteland not under cultivation or used for pasture or grazing. 

Section 2 - Farming Investment
1. The Mideast Region shall be authorized to provide money to farmers for the purpose of capital investment to farms.
2. Grants shall be awarded by the Region on the basis of the quality of farmers' business plans that is a part of their applications.
3. Farmer applicants must match or exceed the amount of the grant being requested.  These funds must be used for projects that are defined as capital fixed assets and have a life expectancy of 10 years or more.
4. Should all funds not be used by the farmer within the time allotted, the farmer must return all remaining funds.
5. Funds must be used for the expansion of existing agricultural facilities, or diversification-expansion into new production areas and site improvements related to such expansion or diversification.

Section 3 - Eligibility
1. Agricultural producers, singularly or jointly, whether such producers are owners or tenants of existing agricultural production facilities must be located within the Mideast Region.
2. Applications must include an individual business plan. In the case of a joint venture, two business plans must be filed, one for the individual applicant and the other for the joint venture, demonstrating how the agricultural production facility will remain ongoing for at least ten years and show what impact the improvements will have on his or her business via projected increased sales, additional jobs, local taxes, etc.
3. Applicant must provide conceptual construction designs with a projected budget, should funds be planned to be used on such projects.
4. Applicant must be responsible for securing and complying with all necessary zoning, inland wetland, building and other permits, as well as environmental regulations, as required prior to receiving grant
5. Upon completion of project, applicant must provide an audit from a Certified Public Accountant, a lending institution or an agricultural advisory institution that includes an itemized statement of expenses of the project.
6. Applicants must agree to a site inspection conducted by an agent from within the region prior to final approval or rejection of their application. If application approved and project monies awarded, applicant must agree to site inspections during the construction phase of the project.
7. Applicant's farm must receive less than $1,000,000 in revenue per year.

Section 5 - Funding and Longevity
1. $600 million will be allocated from the Agriculture portion of the 2012 Mideast Budget to fund this program.
2. This program shall last for five years, at which time, the Mideast Assembly may extend the program.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on February 01, 2013, 08:23:23 PM
Quote
The Booze, Drug, and Tobacco Responsibility Act

The regional taxation rates shall be amended as follows:

Cigarettes: $1.60 per pack 60% Manufacturer's Price
Other Tobacco Products: 55% Manufactures 60% Manufacturer's Price
Distilled Spirits: $2.70 $2.75 per gallon
Wine: $0.30 $0.35 per gallon
Beer: $0.30 $0.35 per gallon
Marijuana: 25% 30% sales tax

Sponsor: Talleyrand


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 05, 2013, 11:19:48 AM
Quote
Amendment to Add Codified Informal Procedures to the Mideast Assembly Procedure for Legislative Debate and Voting
The following provisions, having been the informal procedures of the Mideast Assembly, shall be codified by being amended into the Mideast Assembly Procedure for Legislative Debate and Voting:

•The Dean of the Assembly shall be the Assemblyman with the longest consecutive service in the Assembly.
•At the beginning of a new session or upon the vacancy of said position, the Dean of the Assembly shall hold nominations for Speaker of the Assembly.
•Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN.
•For legislation to pass, the number of AYE votes cast must be higher than the number of NAY votes.
•An ABSTAIN vote shall count as a vote, but neither as an AYE or a NAY.
•When a vote requires a two-thirds majority, 2/3 shall be calculated as the number of Assemblyman serving, rather than the number voting.
•The following are guidelines that are subject to the discretion of the Speaker of the Assembly:
     ‣Votes on amendments will last 24 hours.
     ‣Final votes will last 48 hours.
     ‣Votes to override a veto will last 48 hours.
     ‣Voting on an amendment or bill will not begin until at least 24 hours after being introduced.
     ‣The Speaker can pass a motion for unanimous consent on an amendment immediately when he sees it. Typically this should be done only for trivial changes to bills.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on February 11, 2013, 11:03:44 AM
Quote
Mideast Dog Welfare Act

Section 1- Language

1. The word "dog" in this act shall be defined as a domestic dog of any age or breed from the species canis familiaris.
2. The word "kennel" shall be defined in this act as any establishment in or through which 25 dogs or more are are kept or transferred in a calendar year.
3. A "primary enclosure" shall be defined as the primary structure that restricts a dog's ability to move in a limited amount of space, such as a room, cage, or compartment.

Section 2- Requirements for Kennels
1. All primary enclosures in an operating kennel must be designed and constructed so that they are structurally sound and must be kept in good repair.
2. All primary enclosures must meet the following requirements:
  • Have no sharp points or edges that could hurt the dogs.
  • Be maintained in a manner to protect the dogs from injury.
  • If not fully enclosed on the top, maintain a height that is sufficient to prevent the dog from climbing over the walls.
  • Prevent animals other than dogs from entering the enclosure.
  • Enable the dogs to remain dry and clean.
  • Provide shelter and protection from temperatures and weather conditions that may be uncomfortable or hazardous to any dog.
  • Provide sufficient space to shelter all the dogs housed in the primary enclosure at one time.
  • Provide clean, potable water at all times, unless otherwise directed by a veterinarian in writing that shall be kept in the kennel records.
  • Enable all surfaces in contact with the dogs be readily cleaned and sanitized or be replaceable when worn or soiled.
  • Have floors that are constructed in a manner that protects the dogs' feet and legs from injury.  The floor shall not permit the feet of a dog housed in the primary enclosure to pass through any opening.
  • Provide space to allow each dog to turn about freely and to stand, sit, and lie in a normal position.  The dog must be able to lie down while fully extended without the dog's head, tail, legs, face, or feet touching any side of the enclosure.
  • Maintain a height that is at least six inches higher than the head of the tallest dog in the enclosure when when it is in a normal standing position.
3. All dogs in a kennel must be provided with adequate food that is clean and free from contaminants.
4. All bitches with nursing puppies must be provided with an additional amount of floor space depending on the breed and behavioral characteristics, and also in accordance with generally accepted husbandry practices as determined by the attending veterinarian.  If the additional amount of floor space for each nursing puppy is less than five percent of the minimum requirement for the bitch, the amount of floor space must be approved in writing by the attended veterinarian and shall be kept in the kennel records.
5. All dogs in the same primary enclosure must be compatible, as determined by observation.  Not more than six adult dogs may be housed in the same primary enclosure.  Bitches in heat may not be housed in the same primary enclosure with sexually mature male dogs, except for breeding purposes.  Bitches with litters may not be housed in the same primary enclosure with other adult dogs, and puppies under twelve (12) weeks of age may not be housed in the same primary enclosure with adult dogs, other than the dam or foster dam.  Dogs displaying vicious or aggressive behavior toward other dogs must be housed separately.
6. Housing facilities for dogs must be sufficiently heated and cooled to protect the dogs from temperature or humidity extremes and to provide for their health and well-being.  If dogs are present, the ambient temperature in the facility must not fall below fifty (50) degrees Fahrenheit and must not rise above eighty-five (85) degrees Fahrenheit when dogs are present.
7. Housing facilities for dogs must be ventilated at all times when dogs are present to provide for their health and well-being, to minimize odors, drafts, and ammonia levels, and to prevent moisture condensation.  The relative humidity must be maintained at a level that ensures the health and well-being of the dogs therein.
8. The kennel in which a primary enclosure is located must establish a veterinarian-client-patient relationship.
9. The kennel in which a primary enclosure is locate shall establish a written program of veterinary care, which shall include a physical examination and vaccination schedule, a protocol for disease control and prevention, pest and parasite control, nutrition and euthanasia.  A copy of the program must be kept in the kennel records.
10. The floors and walls of primary enclosures must be impervious to moisture.  The ceilings of indoor housing facilities must be impervious to moisture or be replacable.
11. All dogs must be removed from the primary enclosure when the primary enclosure is cleaned in accordance with subsection 12.
12. The following shall apply to the cleaning of primary enclosures:
  • Excreta, feces, hair, dirt, debris and food waste must be removed from primary enclosures at least daily or more often if necessary to prevent an accumulation of excreta, feces, hair, dirt, debris and food waste to prevent soiling of dogs contained in the primary enclosures and to reduce disease hazards, insects, pests and odors.
  • Used primary enclosures and food and water receptacles must be cleaned and sanitized in accordance with this section before they can be used to house, feed or water another dog or grouping of dogs.
  • Used primary enclosures and food and water receptacles for dogs must be sanitized at least once every two weeks using one of the methods under subparagraph (iv) and more often if necessary to prevent an accumulation of excreta, feces, hair, dirt, debris, food waste and other disease hazards.
  • Hard surfaces of primary enclosures and food and water receptacles must be sanitized using one of the following methods:
    • Live steam under pressure.
    • Washing with water with a temperature of at least 180 degrees Fahrenheit and soap or detergent, as with a mechanical cage washer.
    • Washing all soiled surfaces with appropriate detergent solutions and disinfectant or by using a combination detergent or disinfection product that accomplishes the same purpose with a thorough cleaning of the surfaces to remove excreta, feces, hair, dirt, debris and food waste so as to remove all organic material and mineral buildup and to provide sanitization followed by a clean water rinse.
  • Primary enclosures, exercise areas and housing facilities using material that cannot be sanitized using the methods under subparagraph (iv) must be made sanitary by removing the contaminated material as necessary to prevent odors, diseases, pests, insects and vermin infestation.
  • Premises where primary enclosures are located, including buildings and surrounding grounds, must be kept clean and in good repair to protect the animals from injury, to facilitate the husbandry practices required in this act and to reduce or eliminate breeding and living areas for rodents and other pests and vermin. Premises must be kept free of accumulations of trash, junk, waste products and discarded matter. Weeds, grasses and bushes must be controlled so as to facilitate cleaning of the premises and pest control and to protect the health and well-being of the animals.
13. For each dog in a kennel, a permanent record shall be kept and made readily available for inspection. The record shall contain all of the following information:
  • The date of birth of the dog.
  • The date of the last rabies vaccination.
  • The date of the dog's last veterinarian check.
14. Primary enclosures may not be stacked more than two rows high, and the bottom of the uppermost primary enclosure may not be more than four and one-half feet off the housing facility floor. Where the primary enclosures are stacked, a tray or other department-approved device which will prevent urine, feces and other debris from passing into or being discharged into the underlying primary enclosure shall be placed under the upper primary enclosures. The tray or approved device must be impermeable to water and capable of being easily sanitized.
15. All kennels must be equipped with a smoke alarm and shall have a means of fire suppression, such as fire extinguishers or a sprinkler system on the premises.
16. All veterinarian records shall be kept for two years after the dog has left the care of the facility.
17. Notwithstanding any law, a dog may not be euthanized except by a veterinarian.
18. Any kennel found not following any of the above laws and regulations may punished with a fine of up to $100,000.
Now this is just my preliminary bill.  We can make amendments to this and/or pass new bills as needed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on February 18, 2013, 02:20:57 PM
Quote
The Mideast Firearms Safety Act shall be amended to read

MIDEAST FIREARMS SAFETY ACT

1.) Definitions:

a. In this act:

i. "Firearm" means any weapon designed to discharge a projectile by means of gunpowder.

ii. "Specified felony" means any felonious crime that (i) has as an element of the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the person of another (Such crimes include, but are not limited to, theft, robbery, homicide, attempted homicide, forcible sexual assault, sexual assault of a child, kidnapping, false imprisonment, substantial and aggravated battery, auto theft, and car jackings.); or (ii) is burglary, arson, or extortion, involves use of explosives, or otherwise involves conduct that presents a serious potential risk of physical injury to another.

2.) No person may conceal and carry a firearm on their person in public places unless they have completed a government firearms safety course and have been issued a proper license. These licenses must be renewed every 10 years.

3.) Violation of Section 2 is punishable by a fine of not more $10,000 or imprisonment of not more than 3 years or both.

4.) No person may possess a firearm if they have:

a. Been convicted of a specified felony or adjudicated delinquent of a felony in the Mideast Region, or

b. Been convicted of a specified felony or adjudicated delinquent of a felony in another Region, or

c. Been convicted of a specified felony or adjudicated delinquent of a felony under Federal Law.

5.) Violation of Section 4 is punishable by a fine of not more than $25,000 or imprisonment of not more than 5 years or both.

6.) No person may possess a shotgun or rifle with a barrel length of under 16 inches.

7.) Violation of Section 6 is punishable by a fine of not more than $25,000 or imprisonment of not more than 5 years or both.

8.) The Second Concealed Carry Statute is hereby repealed.

9.) All municipalities in the Mideast are required to organize gun drop-off events at least once every two years.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on March 02, 2013, 11:22:06 AM
Quote
Mideast Emergency Budget Amendment

Article VII of the Mideast Constitution shall be established and shall read:

Quote
Article VII: Miscellaneous

Section 1: Budget
1. The Mideast Government shall be responsible for passing an annual budget. This budget must be on the Governor's desk by July 1st of each year.
2. The total debt of the Mideast Government shall not exceed $50 billion.
3. The total debt ceiling may be raised an additional $10 billion upon a the two-thirds vote if the Assembly consists of five members or by a unanimous vote if the Assembly consists of three members. This action may be conducted on multiple occasions.
4. If the Mideast Assembly fails to pass an annual budget or the debt limit is crossed, the Assembly shall be required to suspend all other legislation in debate until appropriate measures are taken.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 02, 2013, 07:24:32 PM
Do we want to see if the people ratify the budget just proposed first?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on March 02, 2013, 07:39:13 PM
Do we want to see if the people The People ratify the budget just proposed first?

Sure.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on March 07, 2013, 03:38:45 PM
Quote
Helping Our Farmers Act

Section 1 - Definitions
1. The word "farm" in this act shall be defined as any land used to produce crops, livestock, specialty livestock, or grazing and includes woodland and wasteland not under cultivation or used for pasture or grazing. 

Section 2 - Farming Investment
1. The Mideast Region shall be authorized to provide money to farmers for the purpose of capital investment to farms.
2. Grants shall be awarded by the Region on the basis of the quality of farmers' business plans that is a part of their applications.
3. Farmer applicants must match or exceed the amount of the grant being requested.  These funds must be used for projects that are defined as capital fixed assets and have a life expectancy of 10 years or more.
4. Should all funds not be used by the farmer within the time allotted, the farmer must return all remaining funds.
5. Funds must be used for the expansion of existing agricultural facilities, or diversification-expansion into new production areas and site improvements related to such expansion or diversification.

Section 3 - Eligibility
1. Agricultural producers, singularly or jointly, whether such producers are owners or tenants of existing agricultural production facilities must be located within the Mideast Region.
2. Applications must include an individual business plan. In the case of a joint venture, two business plans must be filed, one for the individual applicant and the other for the joint venture, demonstrating how the agricultural production facility will remain ongoing for at least ten years and show what impact the improvements will have on his or her business via projected increased sales, additional jobs, local taxes, etc.
3. Applicant must provide conceptual construction designs with a projected budget, should funds be planned to be used on such projects.
4. Applicant must be responsible for securing and complying with all necessary zoning, inland wetland, building and other permits, as well as environmental regulations, as required prior to receiving grant
5. Upon completion of project, applicant must provide an audit from a Certified Public Accountant, a lending institution or an agricultural advisory institution that includes an itemized statement of expenses of the project.
6. Applicants must agree to a site inspection conducted by an agent from within the region prior to final approval or rejection of their application. If application approved and project monies awarded, applicant must agree to site inspections during the construction phase of the project.
7. Applicant's farm must receive less than $500,000 in revenue per year.

Section 5 - Funding and Longevity
1. $600 million will be allocated from the Agriculture portion of the 2012 Mideast Budget to fund this program.
2. This program shall last for five years, at which time, the Mideast Assembly may extend the program.

Let's try another compromise! ;)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on March 17, 2013, 10:16:41 PM
Quote
Mideast Carbon Emission Control Act

Section 1 - Determination of Taxable Carbon Dioxide
1. The annual Presidential determination mandated by the  Carbon Tax Act  (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Carbon_Tax_Act) shall be used to clarify the amount of carbon dioxide emitted by the production and consumption of fossil fuels for the purpose of applying the tax called for in this act.

Section 2 - Determination of Base Tax Rate
1. For calendar year 2013, there shall be a base tax of $10 per tonne of emitted carbon dioxide.
2. For calendar year 2014, there shall be a base tax of $12 per tonne of emitted carbon dioxide.
3. For calendar year 2015, there shall be a base tax of $14 per tonne of emitted carbon dioxide.
4. For calendar year 2016, there shall be a base tax of $16 per tonne of emitted carbon dioxide.
5. For calendar year 2017, there shall be a base tax of $18 per tonne of emitted carbon dioxide.
5. For calendar year 2018 and beyond, there shall be a base tax of $20 per tonne of emitted carbon dioxide.

Section 3 - Adjustment for Inflation
1. The base tax rate called for in section 2 shall be multiplied by the Core Producer Price Index as of the September prior to the calendar year for which the tax shall be assessed divided by the Core Producer Price Index as of September 2007.

Section 4 - Electricity Consumption Residential Credit
1. Beginning in the year 2013, and continuing indefinitely (or until repeal of the this act), electricity providers operating within the Mideast shall send each customer currently purchasing electricity under a residential rate tier at their primary residence an end-of-year statement showing the total amount of regional carbon tax paid by said consumer for the year prior, alongside the end-of year statement mandated for the federal carbon tax.
2. For the tax year 2013, all single-filing Mideastern taxpayers whose taxable income is $60,000 or less and all joint-filing tax payers whose taxable income is $120,000 or less shall be eligible for a "Carbon Tax Electricity Credit." For the tax year 2014 and beyond, these income requirements shall be indexed to the CPI and adjusted annually for the life of the Mideast Carbon Emission Control Act.
3. For the tax year 2013, residential consumers found eligible in clause 2 shall be able to claim an income tax credit in the amount of their yearly electricity-based Carbon Tax payments, up to $10. This amount shall increase by $5 annually to a total of $35 by tax year 2018, at which time the credit shall make no further annual adjustments. This credit shall expire upon the repeal of this act.

Section 5 - Heating Fuel Consumption Residential Credit
1. Beginning in the year 2013, and continuing indefinitely (or until repeal of this act), natural gas and diesel home heating oil providers operating within the Mideast shall send each residential customer currently purchasing natural gas or diesel home heating oil at their site of primary residence an end-of-year statement showing the total amount of regional carbon tax paid by said consumer for the year prior, alongside the end-of year statement mandated for the federal carbon tax.
2. For the tax year 2013, all single-filing Mideastern taxpayers whose taxable income is $60,000 or less and all joint-filing tax payers whose taxable income is $120,000 or less shall be eligible for a "Carbon Tax Heating Fuel Credit." For the tax year 2014 and beyond, these income requirements shall be indexed to the CPI and adjusted annually for the life of the Mideast Carbon Emission Control Act.
3. For the tax year 2013, residential consumers found eligible in clause 2 shall be able to claim an income tax credit in the amount of their yearly electricity-based Carbon Tax payments, up to $10. This amount shall increase by $5 annually to a total of $35 by tax year 2018, at which time the credit shall make no further annual adjustments. This credit shall expire upon the repeal of this act.

Section 6 - Fuel Efficiency Reimbursement
1. All households who make $60,000 per adult or less are eligible for a re-imbursement on purchases on carbon use reducers.
2. Purchases that count as carbon reducers are as follows: sun panels, non-fossil fuel heating, government certified insulated windows, and any other purchase approved by the government.
3. The re-imbursement will be worth 33% on solar panels, government certified insulated windows, and any other purchases approved for this re-imbursement by the government for this re-imbursement. The re-imbursement will be worth 10% on non-fossil fuels and any other purchases approved by the government for this re-imbursement. The government may approve re-imbursements of other values for other purchases; these re-imbursements may not exceed 50%.

Section 7 - Special Limitations
1. The Carbon Tax exemptions shall apply only to diesel fuel used for the purposes of home heating, and shall not apply to diesel fuel purchased for any other use, including, but not limited to, on-road use.

Section 8 - Applicability
1. This tax shall be assessed on all fossil fuels produced in the Mideast Region of Atlasia or imported into the Mideast Region of Atlasia.
2. This act shall immediately be repealed if the  Carbon Tax Act  (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Carbon_Tax_Act) is repealed.

This bill is a modified version of the Carbon Tax Act of 2007 and Carbon Tax Residential Relief Act of 2008, intended to provide a regional expansion of the emissions control legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Adam Griffin on March 20, 2013, 07:53:20 PM
Since three separate regions are now mulling over budget matters at this point, I felt it necessary to disseminate the following information ahead of schedule so that each region has some idea of the leeway in regard to balancing expenditures and revenues.

()

Current as of 3/20/2013

National GNP & Growth Stats:

GNP: $15.06 trillion
GNP 6-Month Growth: 0.98%

2013 Projected Federal Revenue: $3.01 trillion
2013 Projected Federal Revenue As % of GDP: 19.98%

CPI (1 month): +0.22%
CPI (Last 12 months): +4.04%

Gold: $1986.45/oz
Crude Oil: $93.57/barrel

ANSE: 871.37
NASDAQ: 2298.56

()

*ME, MW & PAC budgets not completed for 2013; ME Regional Revenue & Revenue as % of GDP based off of 2012 budget
     


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on March 20, 2013, 11:46:22 PM
Would the Assembly be opposed with going ahead and starting work on the 2013 budget at the beginning of our next session?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 20, 2013, 11:51:10 PM
Well let's get the amendment ratified first.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 24, 2013, 07:26:37 PM
If anybody has anything to propose this session, now is the time to do it.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 29, 2013, 02:03:41 PM
The new session is now brought to order.  Members, please swear in.  I'll now open the floor for nominations for Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 30, 2013, 07:08:33 PM
Alright, I guess I'll nominate myself, since nobody else has made any nominations.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on March 30, 2013, 07:19:55 PM
I ask unanimous consent Inks.LWC be elected Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Lumine on March 30, 2013, 07:40:17 PM
I agree, Inks should remain as Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 30, 2013, 07:53:21 PM
Seeing no objections, the motion passes.  Inks.LWC is elected Speaker of the Assembly.

I will now open the floor for the introduction of bills.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 31, 2013, 02:48:32 PM
Fix to the Mideast Emergency Budget Amendment

Article VII of the Mideast Constitution shall be established and shall read:

Quote
Article VII: Miscellaneous

Section 1: Budget
Section 1: Budget
1. The Mideast Government shall be responsible for passing an annual budget. This budget must be on the Governor's desk by July 1st of each year.
2. The total debt of the Mideast Government shall not exceed $30 billion.
3. The total debt ceiling may be raised by up to an additional $15 billion upon a the two-thirds vote if the Assembly consists of five members or by a unanimous vote if the Assembly consists of three members. This action may be conducted on multiple occasions; however the total debt shall not exceed $45 billion.
4. If the Mideast Assembly fails to pass an annual budget or the debt limit is crossed, the Assembly shall be required to suspend all other legislation in debate until appropriate measures are taken.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on April 02, 2013, 10:06:05 AM
Common Courtesy While Driving Act

1. It is hereby prohibited to create excessive noise or havoc whilst driving in the Mideast Region.

2. "Excessive noise or havoc" shall be defined as excessively honking one's car horn, intimidating drivers and/or turning on high beams when it is not necessary to do so.

3. The punishment for committing any of these acts shall be a fine of up to $100 (one hundred dollars).

4. While each case will be handled individually, multiple violations of this law may result in suspension of driving privileges and/or revocation of one's license.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on April 04, 2013, 01:03:06 PM
The Much Better Mideast Emergency Budget Amendment

Article VII of the Mideast Constitution shall be established and shall read:

Article VII: Miscellaneous

Section 1: Budget

1. The Mideast Government shall be responsible for passing an annual budget. This budget must be on the Governor's desk by July 1st of each year.
2. The Mideast Budget may not exceed 115% of total revenue brought in per fiscal year. Any surplus that is accumulated shall be entered into the "Mideast Emergency Fund."
3. In case of emergency in which the Mideast Government must pass a budget greater than 115% of total revenue, the Assembly may approve such a budget with a two-thirds vote and/or cover some or all of the deficit with money from the "Mideast Emergency Fund."
4. The total debt of the Mideast Region may not exceed $125 billion.
5. If the Mideast Assembly fails to pass an annual budget by July 1, the Assembly shall be required to suspend all other legislation in debate until appropriate measures are taken.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 07, 2013, 10:03:56 PM
Keeping the Voting Booths Clean Act

The following shall be added to Section 1 of The Mideast Elections Consolidation Statute:

Quote
9. A voter may not vote in a language other than English. A violation of this clause will result in the voter's vote being considered invalid. This does not apply to candidates' or parties' names that are not in English.
10. A voter may not comment on the favorability or unfavorability of any candidate or qualities about any candidate in the voting booth. Such comments include, but are not limited to, "All of these candidates are great", "I do not like any of the candidates", "I am happy to vote for...", "I reluctantly vote for...", and any other similar phrases. A violation of this clause will result in the voter's vote being considered invalid. A person's username and signature are exempt from this clause.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on April 12, 2013, 02:04:10 PM
To generate some discussion...

Quote
Freedom to Consume Alcohol in Public Act

1) Possession of open containers of alcohol and the consumption of alcohol by persons eighteen years of age or older in public open space shall no longer be prohibited. All laws prohibiting the above are hereby repealed.

2) This act shall not be construed to allow possession of open containers of alcohol or the consumption of alcohol in public buildings or in private vehicles.




Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on April 13, 2013, 02:10:07 AM
Quote
Tmthforu94-Gass3268 High Speed Rail Act of 2013

The Mideast Government is committed to finding new and more efficient ways of transportation in the region.

1. The Mideast Government shall construct and maintain a high-speed rail system. The rail shall connect the cities of Chicago, Illinois; Fort Wayne, Indiana; Toledo, Ohio; and Dayton, Ohio.
2. Construction for the rail system shall begin in January 2014.
3. The Mideast Government hereby designates $600 million for the construction and initial maintenance of the rail.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Lumine on April 19, 2013, 06:12:01 PM
Quote
Mideast Speed Limits Act

1. It is hereby prohibited to drive any motor vehicle at velocities higher than seventy miles per hour on highways or interstates in the Mideast Region. Local governments may vote to set speed limits below this amount.

2. This law shall be enforced by the use of speed cameras on major highways.

3. The punishment for surpassing the speed limit shall be a fine of up to two hundred dollars.

4. Multiple violations of this law may result in suspension and/or revocation of one's driver license.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on April 23, 2013, 03:01:40 AM
Quote
Power To The People Amendment

Article VII, Section 2 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby established and shall read:

Section 2: Federal Constitutional Amendments

1. Any federal constitutional amendment sent to the Mideast Region shall be voted on by a public referendum.
2. Voting shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the following Thursday and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
3. An amendment shall be passed when ratified by a two-thirds majority of Mideast citizens voting.
4. In order for an amendment to be voted on subsequent times, it must attain public signatures from at least twenty-five percent of Mideast citizens each time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on April 26, 2013, 06:23:54 AM
Quote
Amendment to Article 1, Section 4 of the Mideast Constitution

Article 1, Section 4, Clause 1 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

The Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall hold the responsibility of updating the Mideast regional Wiki for all legislation and occurrences during and prior to his or her tenure. This comprises the following pages of the regional Wiki:

- Constitution
- Statute
- Governor
- Assembly
- Lt Governor
- Superior Court
- Elections
- Citizens


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on April 27, 2013, 05:57:02 PM
I am currently out of town so I will not be able to be very active over the next few days. PM me if you need me to participate in a vote or do something urgently. I should be back by Monday evening.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 02, 2013, 03:53:25 PM
Quote
Federal Amendment Amendment

Article VII, Section 2 of the Mideast Constitution is hereby established and shall read:

Section 2: Federal Constitutional Amendments

1. Any federal constitutional amendment sent to the Mideast Region shall be voted on by a public referendum.
2. Voting shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the following Thursday and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
3. An amendment shall be passed when ratified by a majority of Mideast citizens voting.
4. In order for an amendment to be voted on subsequent times, it must attain public signatures from at least twenty-five percent of Mideast citizens each time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Talleyrand on May 02, 2013, 07:30:37 PM
Quote
Stop the Obstructionism Amendment

Article VI, Section 1, Clause 1 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

Section 1: Amendment

1. The Governor, Lieutenant Governor, the Assembly, or a group of at least 25% of the registered voters in the Mideast shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of this Constitution when ratified by a two-thirds majority of the People voting.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 03, 2013, 05:07:23 PM
Sorry... life got crazy.  I'm back.  I'll get everything updated tonight.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 04, 2013, 05:42:48 PM
Quote
Power To The People Bill

1. Any federal constitutional amendment sent to the Mideast Region shall be voted on by a public referendum.
2. Voting shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the following Thursday and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
3. An amendment shall be passed when ratified by a two-thirds majority of Mideast citizens voting.
4. In order for an amendment to be voted on subsequent times, it must attain public signatures from at least twenty-five percent of Mideast citizens each time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 04, 2013, 08:38:14 PM
Why did you introduce that again, Inks?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on May 12, 2013, 10:24:49 PM
Quote
Federal Amendment Bill
1. Any federal constitutional amendment sent to the Mideast Region shall be voted on by a public referendum.
2. Voting shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the following Thursday and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.
3. An amendment shall be passed when ratified by a majority of Mideast citizens voting.
4. In order for an amendment to be voted on subsequent times, it must attain public signatures from at least twenty-five percent of Mideast citizens each time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on May 13, 2013, 02:36:27 AM
Federal Amendment Amendment 2

1. Any federal constitutional amendment sent to the Mideast Region shall be voted on by a public referendum.
2. Voting shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the following Thursday and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 7 days (168 hours) after beginning.
3. An amendment shall be passed when ratified by a majority of Mideast citizens voting.
4. In order for an amendment to be voted on subsequent times, it must attain public signatures from at least twenty-five percent of Mideast citizens each time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 27, 2013, 06:58:43 PM
The 30th Session of the Mideast Assembly is now called to order.

We will now accept nominations for the position of Speaker of the Assembly.

Shua, please don't forget to swear in.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: SUSAN CRUSHBONE on May 28, 2013, 12:58:47 AM
I nominate Gass3268.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on May 28, 2013, 02:17:03 AM

I accept


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on May 28, 2013, 12:26:08 PM
I nominate Inks.LWC, our great longtime speaker, for another term.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 28, 2013, 01:01:00 PM
I accept the nomination.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on May 28, 2013, 02:13:40 PM
How long do we wait for Shua?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 28, 2013, 02:19:04 PM
I've PMed him.  We'll give it until tonight, and then start the vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on May 28, 2013, 02:35:22 PM
Sounds good


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on May 28, 2013, 06:15:23 PM
'Kay dawgs. Without further ado...

Amendment to the Question the Power Act
Quote
I've been thinking of amending the "Questioning the Power Act" so as to include the Lt. Governor. Would you be willing to support that? The new bill would read as follows:

1. Once every month, the Governor and the Lt. Governor of the Mideast shall be required to dedicate a part of their time to provide answers to questions which citizens may ask in a special thread. This thread shall be made specifically for the purpose of a "question session". This thread shall be created by the Governor or the Lt. Governor.

2. The special thread shall be opened, or a previous thread bumped, on a Monday. The Governor or Lt. Governor can end such a question session at their own discretion


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on May 28, 2013, 08:11:33 PM
'Kay dawgs. Without further ado...

Amendment to the Question the Power Act
Quote
I've been thinking of amending the "Questioning the Power Act" so as to include the Lt. Governor. Would you be willing to support that? The new bill would read as follows:

1. Once every month, the Governor and the Lt. Governor of the Mideast shall be required to dedicate a part of their time to provide answers to questions which citizens may ask in a special thread. This thread shall be made specifically for the purpose of a "question session". This thread shall be created by the Governor or the Lt. Governor.

2. The special thread shall be opened, or a previous thread bumped, on a Monday. The Governor or Lt. Governor can end such a question session at their own discretion
I like this.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on May 29, 2013, 12:17:34 AM
30 sessions, 131 pages - maybe it's time for a new volume (thread)?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 29, 2013, 12:22:45 AM
30 sessions, 131 pages - maybe it's time for a new volume (thread)?

I figured we'd do that at the end of this session (since starting on a Session "x1" would be nice).

Now that we're all here, we'll open up voting on the Speaker.  The candidates are Gass3268 and Inks.LWC.  This will be a 24-hour vote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 29, 2013, 12:23:18 AM
Inks.LWC


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on May 29, 2013, 09:31:16 AM
Inks


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: SUSAN CRUSHBONE on May 29, 2013, 12:13:38 PM
Gass.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on May 29, 2013, 04:39:46 PM
Inks


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on May 30, 2013, 02:20:30 PM
Gass3268


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 30, 2013, 08:09:13 PM
Voting is now closed. Inks.LWC has 3 votes, and Gass3268 has 2 votes.  Inks.LWC is elected Speaker of the Assembly.

Legislation may now be introduced.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: SUSAN CRUSHBONE on May 31, 2013, 09:10:28 AM
1. It's quite possible that I'm wrong, but afaik, neither the Mideast Constitution nor any of the relevant statutes actually specify where a ballot has to be posted, meaning if this fails, we'll have to address that issue anyway.
2. I've never been very good at wording -- if y'all have improvement suggestions, go right ahead.

Quote
Mideast Electoral Reform Act
I. Secret Ballot
 1. The deputy voting booth administrator is defined as the most recent available gubernatorial or lieutenant-gubernatorial candidate of a different political party from that of the voting booth administrator who, at the time of the election, neither holds office nor is a declared or write-in candidate for office. If there is more than one such ticket, the ticket which received more votes shall receive precedence. If both halves of a ticket are available, the gubernatorial candidate shall receive precedence.
 2. Whenever the Constitution requires that a popular vote of any sort be held, the voting booth administrator shall create a thread in the “Voting Booth” sub-forum, containing the relevant ballot(s) and electoral statute(s), as well as the user-names of the voting booth administrator and the deputy voting booth administrator. This post shall also explicitly notify voters of Section I, Clause 4 and Section II, Clause 2 of this bill.
 3. A ballot shall be counted as valid if, and only if, both of the following conditions apply:
  a. It is sent, with the same preferences expressed, to both the voting booth administrator and the deputy voting booth administrator via private message.
  b. It meets all requirements set by the Mideast Elections Consolidation Statute.
 4. A voter who does not save a copy of his or her ballot in his or her outbox relinquishes the right to challenge the accuracy of its counting.
 5. A voter may edit his or her ballot by sending another private message within twenty minutes of the first ballot sent. Any previous ballots shall be superseded and considered void.
 6. At the conclusion of the voting period, the voting booth administrator shall post all received ballots including the time-stamps but not the user-names, as well as a screen-shot of his or her PM in-box with the same modifications, confirming that all posted ballots exist. Invalid or superseded ballots shall be posted but marked accordingly.
 7. The results shall then be calculated as specified by the Mideast Elections Consolidation Statute.
 8. No post shall be permitted in the election thread except:
  a. The opening post by the voting booth administrator
  b. The raw list of ballots received
  c. Preliminary or final certification of the results
  d. Complaints of incorrect administration
  e. Links to exit-polls

II. Prosecuting Manipulators
 1. “Electoral crimes” shall be defined as any or any combination of the following:
  a. Breach of another person's secrecy of ballot without his or her consent
  b. Deletion of ballots (including any that have been superseded) by either the voting booth administrator or the deputy voting booth administrator before final certification of the results
  c. Intentionally submitting differing ballots to the voting booth administrator and the deputy voting booth administrator
  d. Intimidating or deliberately misinforming voters
  e. Deliberately false invalidation of ballots
  f. Extraneous posts in the voting booth
  g. Frivolous accusations of electoral crimes
 2. The deputy voting booth administrator or any other Mideast citizen may submit concerns with the counting of the vote to investigation by the Mideast Superior Court within 168 hours of the end of the voting period. The person submitting a concern must include a copy of the relevant ballot(s). These concerns may be upgraded to charges of electoral crimes at the originator's discretion.
 3. If the Mideast Superior Court finds someone guilty of electoral crimes, that person shall be ineligible to vote and run in Mideast elections, and to hold office in the Mideast, for a period set by the Mideast Superior Court between two months and life.
 4. Section 13 (Election and Vote Disputes) of the Mideast Elections Consolidation Statute is hereby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: SUSAN CRUSHBONE on May 31, 2013, 09:13:32 AM
This one, meanwhile, should be no trouble at all:
Quote
Freedom of Religion Amendment
1. Article IV, Section 1, Clause 10 of the Mideast Constitution shall hereby be amended to read:
Quote
10. The oath of office shall be as follows: "I, [state name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of [state office name] and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the Mideast Region, so help me Dave[insert higher power of choice]."


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on May 31, 2013, 11:10:20 AM
'Kay dawgs. Without further ado...

Amendment to the Question the Power Act
Quote
I've been thinking of amending the "Questioning the Power Act" so as to include the Lt. Governor. Would you be willing to support that? The new bill would read as follows:

1. Once every month, the Governor and the Lt. Governor of the Mideast shall be required to dedicate a part of their time to provide answers to questions which citizens may ask in a special thread. This thread shall be made specifically for the purpose of a "question session". This thread shall be created by the Governor or the Lt. Governor.

2. The special thread shall be opened, or a previous thread bumped, on a Monday. The Governor or Lt. Governor can end such a question session at their own discretion


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on May 31, 2013, 03:38:07 PM
a Person, I support both your bills, but on the first one, what do you mean by saving a copy of your ballot in your outbox?  And also, would extraneous posts include campaigning in the voting booth?  I think that that should be listed separately.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on June 02, 2013, 04:32:22 AM
FYI - I'll be on vacation until Tuesday.  I'll close the votes when we get back, and by then, hopefully we've solidified what we want to do with the secret ballot bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on June 02, 2013, 11:34:43 PM
Adequate Bill Consideration and Deliberation Act

Quote
All assembly bills must remain on the floor for 48 hours prior to final vote.

(I think this would be an amendment to current legislation but I can't remember what it's called.)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on June 03, 2013, 03:50:31 AM
FYI - I'll be on vacation until Tuesday.  I'll close the votes when we get back, and by then, hopefully we've solidified what we want to do with the secret ballot bill.

Have fun! :)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on June 07, 2013, 05:40:21 PM
I'd like to introduce a bill that would include some tax incentives, but I'm not sure whether I should wait for a budget to be introduced first.  Any advice, please?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on June 09, 2013, 09:42:59 AM
Quote
The Inactivity Amendment

Article III, Section 1 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

7. A member of the Assembly who has missed four consecutive Assembly votes without having previously posted a leave of absence shall be removed from office.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: SUSAN CRUSHBONE on June 09, 2013, 02:20:14 PM
Prostitution has been legal in Atlasia since 2007 -- some might say this was a great leap forward for sexual freedom. However, the example of Germany shows that there are quite some problems with our current, largely unregulated approach.

Quote
Mideast Sex Workers Liberation Act
1. Any person found to be practicing prostitution in the Mideast Region shall receive free GED or college tuition or career counseling funded by the Mideast government.
2. Any person found to be soliciting a prostitute in the Mideast Region shall be pilloried on a website set up by the Mideast government for that purpose.
3. Regional and local authorities shall have the authority to apply additional scrutiny to brothels with respect to laws including, but not limited to, child-labor, age-of-consent, and workers'-rights laws.
4. All prostitutes shall be required to utilize condoms during vaginal or anal intercourse.
5. Prostitutes shall be required to obtain testing for venereal diseases, including HIV, once a month. If a venereal disease is detected, the prostitute is forbidden from seeing further customers, until and unless the disease is no longer present or is in a noncommunicable stage.

explanations:
1 helps the people who are essentially forced into prostitution because they have no other way to make ends meet
2 promotes the goal of stigmatising the 'buyers,' not the 'sellers'*
3 is because these kinds of establishments are more dangerous in that respect
4 and 5 are carried over from the defaults set in FL 19.2

*For the record, current Atlasian law is absolutely fyycking ridiculous in that respect:
Quote
1. No law shall exist criminalizing the act of paying for participation in a sex act.
As in, the 'buyers' are protected from criminal prosecution, and the 'sellers' are not. This is entirely ass-backwards.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: SUSAN CRUSHBONE on June 10, 2013, 10:29:23 AM
Quote
Informed Voters Act
1. The voting booth opening post for any referendum, initiative, proposition, or amendment conducted in the Mideast Region shall include the full text of any statute or constitutional article being modified or repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: SUSAN CRUSHBONE on June 10, 2013, 10:34:09 AM
Quote
A Bill to Commemorate Atlasia's Greatest Citizen
1. A statue of Eternal Governor John Engle shall be erected in the regional Capitol.
2. Peter's Park, Maryland is hereby renamed "Engle's Park".
3. The Order of Engle shall be hereby created and conferred upon Tmthforu94 and Kalwejt.

I will also be introducing major proposals on environmental protection and public transit in the next two weeks.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: tmthforu94 on June 10, 2013, 10:52:18 AM
Quote
A Bill to Commemorate Atlasia's Greatest Citizen
1. A statue of Eternal Governor John Engle shall be erected in the regional Capitol.
2. Peter's Park, Maryland is hereby renamed "Engle's Park".
3. The Order of Engle shall be hereby created and conferred upon Tmthforu94 and Kalwejt.

I will also be introducing major proposals on environmental protection and public transit in the next two weeks.
This is single-handily the greatest piece of legislation ever introduced by this body.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on June 11, 2013, 11:54:06 AM
Quote
Mideast Environmental Protection Incentives Act
1. Any public or private individual or organization in the Mideast Region that engages in environmentally friendly practices shall be subject to the following tax incentives:
  • Exemption from taxes on property used to produce goods or services;
  • Tax deductions on the cost of goods sold;
  • Tax deductions on non-business expenses;
  • Tax deductions on for losses on sale, exchange, or abandonment of business or non-business income producing assets;
  • Tax deductions on the cost of goods sold.
2. The term "environmentally friendly practices" shall be defined as any action that works to preserve wildlife and natural resources, such as reforestation, safe and proper waste disposal, and irrigation methods that reduce the threat to surrounding wildlife.
3. The term "non-business expenses" shall be defined as any expense that is not incurred in relation to a business or an investment.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: SUSAN CRUSHBONE on June 15, 2013, 11:08:53 AM
Quote
Mideast Mass-Transit Reform Act
 1. The Mideast government shall create a Mideast Transit Projects Fund to promote the construction and/or improvement of tram, streetcar, or metro systems.
 2. $3 billion shall be appropriated from the 2013-4 budget into the MTPF.
 3. Any Mideast city with a population greater than 150 000 may apply for a grant taken out of the MTPF to finance the construction, expansion, and/or renovation of its rail-based mass-transit system.
 4. In addition, the MTPF shall be used to subsidize the procurement of new vehicles by public-transportation agencies as follows (to be applied cumulatively):
  a. 15% of the price of any vehicle powered by non-petroleum hydrocarbons
  b. 25% of the price of any hybrid vehicle
  c. 40% of the price of any electric vehicle
  d. 20% of the price of any vehicle powered by other alternative fuels
  e. 10% of the price of any vehicle manufactured within the Northeast, IDS, Pacific, or Midwest
  f. 20% of the price of any vehicle manufactured within the Mideast

- the $3 billion number is a rough estimate - basically, I took the KCSA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_Streetcar_Authority)'s $22 million for 460 000 people, applied it to all the cities with a population greater than 150 000, and multiplied by five to allow for substantially bigger systems, future expansion, and my suspicion that it is quite less expensive to build in KCMO than some other Mideast cities.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on June 16, 2013, 07:09:06 AM
Quote
Mideast Budget 2013

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EXPENDITURES:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Direct Spending:

Energy
($5.99 billion)
Natural resources and environment
($5.38 billion)
Agriculture
($4.21 billion)
Commerce and Housing Loan Programs
($2.01 billion)
Transportation
($24.69 billion)
Community and regional development
($4.46 billion)
Education
($72.02 billion)
Training, labor and unemployment
($9.61 billion)
Health Spending
($14.48 billion)
Civilian Retirement
($43.70 billion)
Aid to Low-Income Families
($25.75 billion)
General Family Support
($5.50 billion)
Administration of justice
($21.27 billion)
General government administration
($3.07 billion)

TOTAL: ($242.14 billion)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax Expenditures and Tax Cuts

Corporate Tax Breaks ($11.03 billion)
$7.00 billion ...... R&D Tax Breaks (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Energy, Mining and Timber Tax Breaks (No Change)
$2.03 billion ...... Tax Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.99 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change)

Personal Business & Investment Benefits ($4.69 billion)
$3.80 billion ..... Tax-Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Enterprise & Empowerment Zones and New Markets credit (No Change)
$0.33 billion ....... Other personal investment tax breaks (No Change)

Pension & Retirement Deductions ($26.08 billion)
$10.05 billion ..... Employer-paid Pensions (No Change)
$7.05 billion ..... 401Ks & Keogh plans (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... IRAs (No Change)
$6.62 billion ..... Group and personal life insurance benefits (No Change)
$0.86 billion ...... Other retirement benefits (No Change)

Health Insurance Tax Benefits ($12.14 billion)
$5.30 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... Self-employed medical insurance premiums (No Change)
$4.70 billion ...... Medical Savings/Health Savings Accounts (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Deductibility of medical expenses (No Change)

Housing tax benefits ($12.93 billion)
$5.50 billion ..... Mortgage Interest (No Change)
$3.01 billion ..... Deductibility of property taxes on homes (No Change)
$3.51 billion ..... Exclusion of net imputed rental income on owner-occupied homes (No Change)
$0.91 billion ...... Housing bonds & low-income housing investments (No Change)

Other individual deductions and exemptions ($14.43 billion)
$3.62 billion ..... Charitable contributions (No Change)
$1.91 billion ..... Local taxes (w/o home property) (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Workmen's compensation (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Education deductions and credits (No Change)
$1.31 billion ..... Child credit (No Change)
$1.38 billion ...... Child care credits and deductions (No Change)
$0.46 billion ......... Deduction for the blind and elderly (No Change)
$0.41 billion ...... Employee parking and transit expenses (No Change)
$0.35 billion ...... Adoption and foster care tax credits (No Change)
$0.80 billion ...... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)- revenue loss component (No Change)
$0.30 billion ...... Other fringe benefits (No Change)

TOTAL: ($81.3 billion)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TOTAL EXPENDITURES: ($323.44 billion)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REVENUES:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Income Tax Rates:

0% $0 - $13,000           
($0.000 bil)
1% $13,001 - $40,000         
($12.485 bil)
1.5% $40,001 - $100,000     
($16.332 bil)
2.2% $100,001 - $180,000     
($5.390 bil)
2.7% $180,001 - $300,000     
($3.637 bil)
3.25% $300,001 - $750,000     
($2.336 bil)
4% $750,001 - $2,750,000     
($1.962 bil)
5% $2,750,001- $9,999,999     
($1.277 bil)
6.5% $10,000,000+           
($0.935 bil)

TOTAL: ($44.35 B)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Social Insurance Taxes:

1.5% Employer contributions to pensions   
($27.332 bil)

TOTAL: ($27.33 B)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Corporate Tax Rates:

0% $0 - $50,000           
($0.000 bil)
0.5% $50,001 - $75,000         
($3.929 bil)
1% $75,001 - $125,000         
($5.312 bil)
1.5% $125,001 - $350,000     
($5.473 bil)
2% $350,001 - $1,000,000     
($7.567 bil)
2.5% $1,000,001 - $10,000,000   
($9.035 bil)
3.25% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000   
($6.963 bil)
4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000     
($7.831 bil)
5% $70,000,001+           
($7.573 bil)

TOTAL: ($53.68 B)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ad Valorem Taxes:

Sales Tax Rate: 6% (Groceries, prescription drugs exempt)
($89.284 bil)
Gas: 45 cents/gallon ($0.50/gallon for diesel)
($46.761 bil)
Cigarettes: 60% Manufacturers Price     
($9.385 bil)
Other Tobacco Prod: 60% Manufactures Price   
($0.285 bil)
Distilled Spirits: $2.75 per gallon     
($0.223 bil)
Wine: $0.35 per gallon           
($0.318 bil)
Beer: $0.35 per gallon           
($0.794 bil)
Marijuana: 30% sales tax         
($2.682 bil)

TOTAL: ($149.73 B)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Business & Other: ($21.07 B)

TOTAL: ($21.07 B)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fees: ($43.68 B)

TOTAL: ($43.30 B)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TOTAL REVENUES: ($339.84 billion)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PROJECTED SURPLUS: ($16.36 billion)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on June 19, 2013, 08:44:24 PM
A Bill Concerning Atlasian Internal Turmoil, and the Mideastern Response

Quote
1. The Government of the Mideast shall express full support for the actions of the Imperial Dominion of the South in regards to the dissolution of the Pacific Government.

2. An official military arm of the Mideast Government shall be created, heretofore referred to as the Army of the Mideast. It shall serve the Mideast's common defence and be at the disposal of the regional government in all regional military exercises.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on June 25, 2013, 02:18:20 PM
Quote
Repeal of the T-G-I-T-Z-L Mideast High Speed Rail Act of 2013 Act

The "T-G-I-T-Z-L Mideast High Speed Rail Act of 2013" is hereby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on July 03, 2013, 09:34:13 PM
The Mideast Elections Are For Mideasterners Amendment

Article IV Section 1, clauses 1 and 2 of the Mideast Constitution is amended as follows:
Quote
Section 1: Election Procedure

1.   All those considered to be qualified to vote from a State within the Mideast Region for federal elections, shall be qualified to vote in all elections, propositions, initiatives, recalls and Constitutional Amendments of the Mideast Region, except as where Regional Law may provide.  Those who are qualified to vote for federal elections in another region are not qualified to vote in Mideast elections.
2.    All candidates for electoral office in the Mideast Region shall must be qualified to vote in the Mideast Region.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on July 22, 2013, 10:38:17 PM
when does the next term begin?  (and btw is this in the Constitution or statute somewhere?)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Njall on July 24, 2013, 01:38:07 AM
when does the next term begin?  (and btw is this in the Constitution or statute somewhere?)

I'm wondering this too.  Where's ZuWo?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on July 24, 2013, 02:32:54 AM
The constitution is your friend. ;)

Article IV, Section 1, Clause 8:

"Those elected shall take office at noon Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday after their election."

In other words, the next session begins the day after tomorrow.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on July 24, 2013, 08:37:55 AM
I'm not sure what's the latest news about Bmotley. BK posted yesterday that Bmotley has been banned from the forum but Bmotley actually posted today. I need absolute certainty before I consider his seat vacant and appoint a successor.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on July 25, 2013, 10:12:36 AM
when does the next term begin?  (and btw is this in the Constitution or statute somewhere?)

I'm wondering this too.  Where's ZuWo?
I think we can swear in the Friday after the election, which would be tomorrow.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 27, 2013, 06:54:23 PM
Alright everyone, go swear in.  Nominations for Speaker are now open and will be open for 24 hours.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on July 28, 2013, 10:31:32 AM
I wish to nominate our great Speaker, Inks.LWC, for another term.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 28, 2013, 05:27:44 PM
I accept the nomination.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 29, 2013, 12:44:42 AM
Nominations are now closed.  Seeing as there is only one nomination and all Assemblymen have sworn in, I request unanimous consent that Inks.LWC be elected Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 29, 2013, 12:45:21 AM
Seeing no objection, the request is granted, and Inks.LWC is elected Speaker.

Members may now begin introducing legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on July 29, 2013, 12:57:17 AM
Seeing no objection, the request is granted, and Inks.LWC is elected Speaker.

Members may now begin introducing legislation.

forty seconds of no one objecting qualifies as unanimous consent?   


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 29, 2013, 01:01:50 AM
Seeing no objection, the request is granted, and Inks.LWC is elected Speaker.

Members may now begin introducing legislation.

forty seconds of no one objecting qualifies as unanimous consent?   

That's how we've always done it in the past when there's only been one nominee.  Nominations were open for over 24 hours, and everybody's been online.  Although if somebody really wanted to nominate someone else, we can revote.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: The Simpsons Cinematic Universe on July 29, 2013, 05:06:24 AM
No objection here.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Njall on July 29, 2013, 02:15:22 PM


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on July 29, 2013, 04:28:38 PM
OK, then I think it's pretty clear that we can move on.  Let the legislating begin!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on July 29, 2013, 04:43:36 PM
Abstain votes aren't Nay votes

Article VI, Section 1, Clause 1 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

The Governor, Lieutenant Governor, the Assembly, or a group of at least 25% of the registered voters in the Mideast shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of this Constitution when ratified by a two-thirds majority of the People voting; abstaining votes shall be omitted from the count.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on July 31, 2013, 07:17:00 AM
I introduce the following constitutional amendment, which is based on an idea by a Mideast citizen (it's a blend of the Northeast Amendment to the Vacancy Filling Act (https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Amendment_to_the_Vacancy_Filling_Act) and my own considerations):

Mideast Assembly Vacancy Act

Article III, Section 1, Clause 6 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

1. In the case of a vacancy in the Mideast Assembly, a special election shall be held to elect a new member of the Assembly.

2. The special election must take place within 9 days following the vacancy. The voting booth shall open at 0001 Eastern Standard Time on a Friday and close exactly 72 hours later. The election shall be administered by the Governor.

3. In order to be a candidate on the ballot, a candidate must declare their candidacy on the Candidate Declaration Thread at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of the election.

4. Any candidate who receives write-in votes must confirm that he or she is willing to assume the vacancy by publicly declaring a willingness to receive write-in votes at least 24 hours before the commencement of the election in the Candidate Declaration Thread. Otherwise, those write-in votes shall be deemed void.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on August 05, 2013, 07:48:49 AM
Admission of Ontario and Nunavut Act

The Mideast Assembly does hereby consent to having the territories of Ontario and Nunavut granted unto this region as determined by the Atlasia Senate via the Atlasia-Canada Common Market Agreement.

Text of the Atlasia-Canada Common Market Agreement: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=174563.0


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on August 05, 2013, 08:13:19 PM
I'm going to try to re-introduce this:

Mideast Environmental Protection Incentives Act

Quote
1. Any public or private individual or organization, that is located in the Mideast Region and conducts business in the natural resources sector, will not be provided with government subsidies and tax breaks unless proper restoration practices are undertaken.
2. The Mideast Region government will issue a refund equivalent to sales tax paid for the purchase of equipment that will contribute to the production of clean energy.
3. Any public or private business entity found to be improperly disposing of waste will compelled to finance all necessary environmental clean-up efforts in relation to the waste disposal sites.
4. Additionally, any public or private business entity found to be improperly disposing of wastes shall be subject to a fine, equivalent to 25% of the environmental clean-up costs incurred.
5. Any business entity that conducts business in the energy sector, and generates at least 50% of their energy from clean energy sources, shall be subject to the following corporate tax refund:

•50-55% of energy generated from clean sources: 0.50% of paid corporate tax
•55-60% of energy generated from clean sources: 0.75% of paid corporate tax
•60-65% of energy generated from clean sources: 1.00% of paid corporate tax
•65-70% of energy generated from clean sources: 1.25% of paid corporate tax
•70-75% of energy generated from clean sources: 1.50% of paid corporate tax
•75-80% of energy generated from clean sources: 1.75% of paid corporate tax
•80-85% of energy generated from clean sources: 2.00% of paid corporate tax
•85-90% of energy generated from clean sources: 2.25% of paid corporate tax
•90-95% of energy generated from clean sources: 2.50% of paid corporate tax
•95-100% of energy generated from clean sources: 2.75% of paid corporate tax

6. The term 'proper restoration practices' shall be defined as practices, such as reforestation, that are intended to restore an area that has been subject to environmentally-harmful practices to its natural state.
7. The terms 'clean energy' and 'clean energy sources' shall be defined as sources of energy, such as solar power and wind power, that are much less harmful to the environment than conventional sources.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on August 06, 2013, 09:45:12 PM
MLK Day Act

Martin Luther King Jr. Day shall be a public holiday for the Mideast Region, to be celebrated on January 15 of each year.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on August 22, 2013, 03:27:16 PM
Amendment to the Underaged Labor Guidelines of 2012 Act

1. If a company, business or corporation based in Mideast Region hires an employee under the age of 18 (eighteen) they must adhere to the following guidelines:

- The employee may not work more than 25 hours a week and no more than 5 hours a day.

-The employee may not work after 9 10 PM local time.

-The employee must be paid no less than 60% of the statewide minimum wage.

-The employee is entitled to the same benefits, be it health or otherwise, that any normal tenured employee is entitled to.

-The employee must work in appropriate working conditions, meaning they may not operate heavy machinery or any other type of dangerous machinery.

-Only those ages 17 16 and up may handle food products in the workplace.

2. If a company, business or corporation is found to be not adhering to these guidelines, they may be subject to a $1,500 (one thousand, five hundred) fine.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on August 26, 2013, 05:19:36 PM
Mideast Animal Welfare Act
Quote
All provisions of the Mideast Dog Welfare act shall be extended to any domesticated animal raised in the Mideast region.

Mideast Can and Bottle Return Act
Quote
1. All canned or bottled beverages in the Mideast region may be returned to a recycling center for a refund of ten cents ($0.10) per can or bottle.
2. Any private business in the Mideast region may choose to participate in the provisions of this act, and those who choose not to shall not be required to follow them.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on August 28, 2013, 12:19:38 AM
The Mideast Mass Transit Reform Act

1.The Mideast Region shall establish the Mideast Transit Projects Fund (MTPF) that shall provide grants in order to assist municipalities and metropolitan areas in the establishment and improvement of mass transit systems. 

2. Eligible mass transit proposals may include light rail, street car, metro, and bus rapid transit systems, as well as bus routes. Other systems of an innovative nature may also be eligible.

3.These grants shall be distributed according to considerations to include:
  a. improved accessibility and reliability of mass transit in connectivity to the general public and employment locations
  b. serving needs in a way that is relatively equitable geographically and with particular attention to the needs of the poor and under-served.
  c. cost-effectiveness and financial responsibility
  d. environmental sustainability and energy efficiency
  e. enhancements in aesthetic quality and user-friendliness
  f. minimization of the use of eminent domain toward homes and small businesses

4. $5 billion per year shall be allocated toward MTPF capital investments in fiscal years 2013-14 and 2014-15.  This shall be funded by reducing the annual allocation to High Speed Rail for these years by an equivalent amount and extending the remaining funding into the following year. 

5. An additional $500 million shall be allocated in the annual budget toward the funding the operation of these investments where necessary.

6. Electric utility companies shall be allowed to invest in the development and operation of electric-based mass transit in the Mideast to the extent permitted under federal law.

7. $100 million shall be added to the annual budget to improve freight rail in ways that encourage lessening of the contribution of freight to road congestion.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on August 28, 2013, 07:56:25 PM
Mideast Official Folk Song Act
Quote
1. "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" by Gordon Lightfoot and "Carry Me Back to Old Virginny" are hereby declared to be official folk songs of the Mideast region.
2. Any additional folk songs may be proclaimed as official folk songs of the region in addition to the aforementioned songs by legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on September 10, 2013, 08:11:43 PM
Police Surveillance Act
Quote
All police vehicles in the Mideast region must be fitted with high-definition cameras to be used for surveillance purposes.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 17, 2013, 06:43:52 PM
Quote
Fix to the Inactivity Amendment

Article III, Section 1 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

7. A member of the Assembly who has missed five consecutive final votes, which lasted at least 48 hours, without having previously posted a leave of absence shall be automatically and immediately removed from office.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on September 27, 2013, 02:04:34 PM
Mideast Abortion Sex Protection Act
Quote
1. All abortions for sex-selective purposes are hereby prohibited in the Mideast region.
2. Any pregnant woman in the Mideast region considering an abortion must consult with a licensed physician prior to obtaining one and explain her reasons for considering said abortion.
3. The use of profiling based on race, ethnicity, sexual preference, religion, or any other characteristic by a physician to determine the reason for considering an abortion is strictly prohibited.
4. Any physician found to be violating any provision of this act may be punished by a fine of up to $50,000 and/or imprisonment.

Mideast Equal Opportunity Act
Quote
1. No college, university, or business in the Mideast region may establish quotas in admissions or hiring based on race, sex, creed, religion, ethnicity, sexual preference, or any other such characteristic.
2. The consideration of any individual in admissions or hiring by a college, university, or business based on any of the above criteria is allowed for comparison of individuals of equal merit.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 27, 2013, 03:26:35 PM
As all but one of us is now sworn in, I'll open nominations for Speaker of the Assembly.  Nominations will be open for 24 hours.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on September 27, 2013, 06:29:47 PM
Allocution of funds from Pacific Crises Stimulus Fund Act
1. Three Billon Dollars is specified for the purpose of improving rail stations for regional mass transit.
   A. Contracts are to be offered to non-union and union rail infrastructure workers
   B. The following cities are considered for this phase of improvements
        1. Baltimore Maryland
        2. Richmond Virginia
        3. Charleston West Virginia
        4. Columbus Ohio
        5. Cleveland Ohio
        6. Indianapolis Indiana
        7. Chicago Illinois
        8. St. Louis Missouri
        9. Kansas City, Missouri

2. Seven Billion Dollars are to be specifically utilized in the form of various tax cuts and credits as the Assembly and Governor shall decide or designated for the Rainy Day Fund

         


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on September 29, 2013, 12:25:30 PM
I hereby nominate Inks.LWC for another term as Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 29, 2013, 04:16:51 PM
I hereby nominate Inks.LWC for another term as Speaker.

I accept the nomination.  Seeing as no other nominations have been made, I ask unanimous consent that Inks.LWC be elected Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 29, 2013, 04:29:40 PM
Seeing no objections, Inks.LWC is elected Speaker of the Assembly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Anna Komnene on September 29, 2013, 04:45:38 PM
Recognizing Language Diversity Act

1. Recognizing the importance of linguistic and cultural diversity within the Mideast region, public elementary and secondary schools are hereby required to offer classes in at least two foreign languages.  One of these foreign languages must be Spanish while the second foreign language may be determined by state and local policy.

2. Elementary and secondary schools offering classes in two or more foreign languages may request aid from the Mideast Department of Education.  Upon receiving a written request, the Mideast Department of Education is required to grant support to the school in question to help cover the costs of at least two but no more than three foreign languages. Schools which receive support by the Mideast Department of Education are required to use all funding and/or logistic help for the purposes designed in Section 1 of this Act.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: PPT Spiral on September 29, 2013, 05:22:49 PM
Quote
Amendment to the Booze, Drug, and Tobacco Responsibility Act

The regional taxation rates shall be amended as follows:


Cigarettes: 60% Manufacturer's Price 30% Manufacturer's Price

Other Tobacco Products: 60% Manufacturer's Price 30% Manufacturer's Price

Distilled Spirits: $2.75 per gallon $2.00 per gallon

Wine: $0.35 per gallon

Beer: $0.35 per gallon $0.10 per gallon

Marijuana: 30% sales tax


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 29, 2013, 09:39:12 PM
Police Surveillance Act

1. All police vehicles in the Mideast region must be fitted with high-definition cameras to be used for surveillance purposes.
2. Attorneys representing those depicted in the resulting video shall have access to such video, including the entire encounter and all other relevant footage. Police departments may charge a reasonable processing fee in order to fulfill such requests.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on September 30, 2013, 02:36:07 AM
Resolution to Save Our Regions

WHEREAS, some members of the federal government are currently debating reducing the number of regions from five to three or four; and

WHEREAS, having five regions, with the boundaries as they currently stand, has played a large roll in the way that this nation has been run for several years; and

WHEREAS, the reduction of the number of Atlasia's regions is an overreaction to a problem that does not concern the entire nation; and

WHEREAS, key citizens and government officials who have been part of this nation for several years have expressed that a change in Atlasia's regions would make the game less appealing;

BE IT RESOLVED, that we strongly urge the federal government not to attempt to alter the number of regions or regional boundaries in any way at this time.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 03, 2013, 07:46:59 PM
Fix to the Inactivity Amendment

Article III, Section 1 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

7. A member of the Assembly who has missed five consecutive final votes, which lasted at least 48 hours, without having previously posted a leave of absence shall be automatically and immediately removed from office.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Anna Komnene on October 09, 2013, 01:27:06 AM
Mideast Regional Museums Act

1) $150 million in funding shall be allocated to contract an architect and construction team to build a Mideast Regional Art Museum and a Mideast Regional Museum of Natural History, as well as to procure and maintain initial exhibits for each museum.

2) The Mideast Regional Art Museum shall be constructed in Cleveland, Ohio.

3) The Mideast Regional Museum of Natural History shall be constructed in Indianapolis, Indiana.

4) Each regionally funded museum in the Mideast must contain at least one exhibit focusing on local art, science, or history.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Anna Komnene on October 11, 2013, 06:00:06 PM
Standardizing the Voting Booth Act

All elections held in the Mideast Region will begin at 16:00 Eastern Standard Time on the Thursday dictated by the Mideast Constitution and conclude 72 hours thereafter.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on October 14, 2013, 03:30:57 PM
Quote
Mideast Property Rights Act
The use of eminent domain by the regional government of the Mideast, or the local government within any jurisdiction of the Mideast, is strictly prohibited.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 15, 2013, 09:52:03 AM
Resolution to Give Power Back to the People

Quote

WHEREAS, the Abortion Sex Protection Act is one of the most high-profile issues currently facing the nation; and

WHEREAS, regardless of our personal views on abortion, we believe that the People have the right to know where their Governor stands on important legislation and that public officials should have the courage of their convictions on issues as important as abortion; and

WHEREAS, the current Governor of the Mideast has chosen to allow the Abortion Sex Protection Act to become law without signing or vetoing the bill; and

WHEREAS, this action has also deprived The People of their right to hold a referendum on the Abortion Sex Protection Act and;

WHEREAS, we believe that if the Abortion Sex Protection Act is neither signed nor vetoed, a dangerous precedent will be set which may well lead to The People routinely denied their right to hold a referendum on any number of issues which may arise in the future and;

WHEREAS, we believe these things to be true, regardless of our personal views on when life begins and regardless of how we would vote were a referendum to be held on the Abortion Sex Protection Act;

BE IT RESOLVED, that we strongly urge Governor Zuwo to either sign or veto the Abortion Sex Protection Act.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 15, 2013, 10:15:00 AM
Quote
The Precaution to Ensure Mideastern Representation in the Redrawing of Regions Act

1) If regional consolidation takes place and it is determined that the new region's borders will be redrawn by our nation's Governors, the Governor of the Mideast must actively participate in the process of redrawing of our nation's regions in order to ensure fair representation for Mideasterners in the process of reconsolidation, should it ever take place.

2) If for any reason the Governor is either unwilling and/or unable to do so, then this responsibility will fall upon the Lieutenant Governor. 

3) If both the Governor and Lieutenant Governor both unable and/or unwilling to do so, then the Governor must appoint either the Mideast's regional Senator or a current member of the Mideast Assembly to participate in the redrawing process who is both able and willing to do so. 

4) If the Governor appoints either the Mideast's regional Senator or a member of the Mideast Assembly to serve in such a capacity, that citizen will be considered by the regional government of the Mideast to have the same voting power that the Governor or Lieutenant Governor would've had were one of them to participate instead.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 16, 2013, 03:52:32 PM
The Responsible Abortion Policy Act
Quote
1. The Mideast Abortion Sex Protection Act is repealed in its entirety, effective immediately.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on October 17, 2013, 06:49:03 PM
Quote
Emergency False Alarm Act
1. No person within the Mideast Region may create a situation that creates a false impression of an emergency requiring the action of emergency responders.
2. The term "emergency" shall be defined as any situation that poses a significant threat to life or property and requires the action of emergency response services.
3. Any person found in violation of the above provisions shall be subject to a $50,000 fine and/or imprisonment of length as established by a judge.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on October 21, 2013, 07:48:39 PM
=
Quote
Mideast Can and Bottle Return Act
Quote
1. All containers of canned or bottled beverages in the Mideast region may be returned to a recycling center for a refund of ten cents ($0.10) per can or bottle.
2. Any individual who purchases a beverage in the Mideast region shall pay a deposit of ten cents ($0.10) per beverage upon said purchase, and this deposit shall be refunded upon the return of the can or bottle to a recycling center.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on October 22, 2013, 04:22:29 PM
Right to Life Act

1. Abortions other than for reason of life of the mother being threatened via pregnancy, pregnancy caused by rape, or pregnancy via incest are hereby prohibited

2. The Responsible Abortion Policy Act is hereby repealed

3. Abortions caused by reasons other than the aforementioned are punished by a mandatory 5 year sentence and permanent forfeiture of medical license

4. Sections 1 and 3 of The Abortion Sex Protection Act is reinstated


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on October 22, 2013, 08:31:34 PM
Mideast Metrication Act
Quote
1. The International System of Units (SI) is hereby declared the standard system of weights and measures in the Mideast Region.
2. All existing units of measurement in the Mideast Region shall be rewritten and displayed using SI units of measurement; however, existing units may be displayed in addition to SI units.
3. Any company that operates within the Mideast Region may continue to use current units of measurement in machinery until said machinery ceases to operate.
4. Any company that produces goods and operates within the Mideast Region may continue to sell products using existing units of measurement; however, they are also permitted to convert said products to the use of SI units if desired.
5. The above provisions shall not apply to the construction of roads in the Mideast Region.

Again, this is a basic framework.  Feel free to amend it however you want.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Anna Komnene on October 23, 2013, 06:38:41 PM
Mideast Comprehensive Sex Education Act

Recognizing that the best way to reduce sexually transmitted infections and unwanted pregnancies is to provide comprehensive and progressive sex education as part of curricula:

1. $15 million will be requested from the Federal Department of Internal Affairs and made available to public schools to support the development and production of sex education programs across the Mideast region.

2. Programs using this funding must address the following areas in a comprehensive, technical, and impartial fashion:

a) Contraception use and availability for both men and women.
     1) Programs must provide a summary of all available contraceptives for both men and women, including advantages and disadvantages of each, how to use them, and where they can be obtained.
     2) Recognizing that men and women have different contraceptive needs, public schools must make options available to each gender in school nurse offices and health centers.
     3) Programs must explain the risks associated with being sexually active in an impartial manner, including sexually transmitted infections and pregnancy.

b) Sexuality and gender identity
    1) Programs should explain sexuality and gender identity as a natural phenomena, encourage students to be sensitive to the feelings of one another, and discourage bullying of any kind.
    2) Impartial counselors should be made available for students to discuss their feelings about sexuality and gender identity issues.
    3) School employees are expressly forbidden to attempt to alter the sexual orientation or gender identity of any student.

3. In order to comply with the Atlasian Comprehensive Sex Education Bill 2013, this program must be endorsed by the Federal Department of Internal Affairs prior to commencement and will be reviewed annually to ensure best information is transmitted.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Anna Komnene on October 23, 2013, 08:03:16 PM
Voting Booth Times Notification Act

1.  For any given election, the Governor or Voting Booth Administrator of the Mideast shall notify citizens of the time he or she expects to open the voting booth at least 72 hours prior to the election in a public thread.

2.  If for any reason the opening time of the election must be altered, the Governor shall make every possible effort to inform citizens of the change in the same thread as the original notification.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Anna Komnene on October 24, 2013, 07:05:11 PM
Right to Love Act

The Mideast Assembly condemns the practice of "ex-gay" conversion therapy as a reprehensible and fraudulent scientific procedure that causes more harm than good.  Therefore:

1. The practice of ex-gay conversion therapy is hereby banned throughout the Mideast Region.

2. Any licensed medical professional caught practicing ex-gay conversion therapy shall have their medical license revoked and subjected to a fine of up to $50,000.

3. Any citizen attempting to impersonate a licensed medical professional in order to perform ex-gay conversion therapy shall be subjected to a fine of up to $100,000 and/or up to one year in prison.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 24, 2013, 10:10:22 PM
Seeing as 60 hours has elapsed since the Superior Court vacancy, the Governor can no longer appoint someone, so I have to do it (perhaps we should look at rewording that).

I choose to appoint HappyWarrior.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on November 03, 2013, 10:15:57 AM
Agricultural Sales Act
Quote
1. The sale of fertilized eggs for food consumption in the Mideast Region is strictly prohibited.
2. The above provision shall apply to the eggs of any bird, reptile, fish, or other such animal.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 04, 2013, 12:06:14 PM
Don't Drown the Voters in Information Act

The Informed Voters Act is hereby amended as follows:

Quote
1. The voting booth opening post for any referendum, initiative, proposition, or amendment conducted in the Mideast Region shall include the fullrelevant text of any statute or constitutional articleprovision being modified or repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 04, 2013, 12:27:28 PM
Consistency in Laws Amendment

Article III, Section 2, clause 6 of the Third Mideast Constitution is hereby amended as follows:

Quote
Should the Assembly pass and the Governor sign legislation and a group of 4 or more citizens publicly protest the measure in either the Mideast Assembly or a separate thread during the session of the Assembly in which the legislation was passed, a public referendum shall be held on that legislation. All public referendums shall come to a full vote of the citizens of the Mideast in a special Voting Booth to be administered in accordance with Article IV of this Constitution. Voting shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the third Thursday of the month and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 48 hours after beginning.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 12, 2013, 01:21:53 AM
With the announcement of GM SirNick's resignation, we're in a bit of an awkward situation.  Considering the last GM analysis, I think we definitely need to wait on a vote on the Language bill.  I think the False Alarm bill will have a small enough impact to just go forward without a pre-vote analysis.  The bottle bill, metric bill, and sex ed bill are all too fiscally focused for me to be comfortable going forward without a GM analysis.

If the new GM is sworn in before the session ends, I'll try my hardest to get these 4 bills analyzed and voted on, but some or all of them may end up having to wait until next session.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on November 15, 2013, 09:58:28 AM
Mideast Education Reform Act
Quote
1. All high school students in the Mideast Region must demonstrate proficiency on a standardized test in the following areas:
  • Speed reading
  • Mideast history
  • Shorthand
2. The above provisions may be followed at any time between the entrance of a student into high school and his/her graduation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on November 22, 2013, 10:47:50 AM
Mideast Day of Mourning and Remembrance Act
Quote
1. In commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the assassination of John F. Kennedy, November 22, 2013, is officially declared a day of mourning and remembrance in the Mideast Region.
2. All flags within the Mideast Region shall be flown at half-staff in observance of the above provision.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 25, 2013, 07:28:54 PM
Considering that the Mideast does not recognize Thanksgiving as a regional holiday, is anyone opposed to having votes occur over Thanksgiving?  Due to the fact that we're still waiting on some GM analyses to come in for bills, I don't think we can get as much done if we don't hold votes over the holiday.  On the other hand, if most people won't be able to come on to vote, we can just push it off until the next session.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on November 26, 2013, 01:59:25 PM
Considering that the Mideast does not recognize Thanksgiving as a regional holiday, is anyone opposed to having votes occur over Thanksgiving?  Due to the fact that we're still waiting on some GM analyses to come in for bills, I don't think we can get as much done if we don't hold votes over the holiday.  On the other hand, if most people won't be able to come on to vote, we can just push it off until the next session.

I don't know that I'll even be online during Thanksgiving, so I'd obviously prefer for the votes not to be held that day/


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 26, 2013, 04:27:31 PM
OK, then considering that we don't have anything back from the GM (and unless we had it before noon tomorrow, we couldn't fit in a vote anyway), I am going to take us into recess until noon Friday when we will start the new session.  If something comes up and we have to have an emergency vote, I will PM everyone.  Have a happy Thanksgiving, everyone!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2013, 12:23:32 PM
The 33rd Session of the Mideast Assembly is now called to order. Members please swear in. I will now open nominations for Speaker for the next 24 hours.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 29, 2013, 12:29:31 PM
I nominate Inks for Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2013, 12:32:34 PM
I accept the nomination.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Anna Komnene on November 29, 2013, 03:05:00 PM
Hey Inks, are the bills from last session still on the floor or do they need to be re-proposed?


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2013, 05:05:38 PM
Hey Inks, are the bills from last session still on the floor or do they need to be re-proposed?

They will be need to be re-proposed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on November 30, 2013, 10:37:53 AM
I nominate Siren for Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Anna Komnene on November 30, 2013, 01:01:30 PM
I'm honored by the nomination but respectfully decline.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2013, 03:00:25 PM
As 24 hours have now passed, and there is only one nomination on the table, I ask unanimous consent that Inks.LWC be elected Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 30, 2013, 04:29:46 PM
Aye


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on November 30, 2013, 04:30:16 PM
I object regarding the motion for unanimous consent and request a one day extension of the deadline, if there is still only one nomination on the table then I would not object to unanimous consent.  This is nothing personal against Speaker Inks, but on principle, I don't like the idea of one person serving as Speaker for 17 terms.  I think I've even mentioned this to him in the past, 17 sessions as Speaker should be enough for any man ;)

In other words: Nay


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on November 30, 2013, 07:48:12 PM
So Inks acts like a power grabbing prick in fantasyland as well? Shocking.

NAY

(is 'prick' a parliamentary acceptable word in this here legislative shack these days?)


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: PJ on November 30, 2013, 09:08:05 PM
I strongly urge the Mideast to create a regional park system. This has been accomplished in the Pacific, and is currently being considered in the Midwest and IDS.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2013, 10:43:30 PM
So Inks acts like a power grabbing prick in fantasyland as well? Shocking.

NAY

(is '----' a parliamentary acceptable word in this here legislative shack these days?)

We've done this EVERY nomination where there's only one nominee. I don't ever recall an objection before.

Nominations will remain open until 12:23:32 PM EST tomorrow.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on December 01, 2013, 02:06:09 PM
Objection withdrawn, ftr


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on December 01, 2013, 02:52:21 PM
Prissy so and so even reported the post. lol. It's just a game!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 01, 2013, 03:47:28 PM
Nominations are again closed.  Members will now vote for one of the following nominees for Speaker.  This will be a 24-hour vote.

[  ] Inks.LWC


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 01, 2013, 03:48:11 PM
[ X ] Inks.LWC


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 01, 2013, 05:35:34 PM


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on December 01, 2013, 07:17:43 PM
We must vote against fascism!

NAY


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on December 02, 2013, 09:44:13 AM
Abstain


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 02, 2013, 06:08:00 PM
Voting is now closed.  Inks.LWC has been elected Speaker.  Legislation may now be introduced.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on December 02, 2013, 06:09:26 PM
FASCIST!


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Anna Komnene on December 02, 2013, 06:22:24 PM
Quote
Recognizing Language Diversity Act

1. Recognizing the importance of linguistic and cultural diversity within the Mideast region, public elementary and secondary schools are hereby required to offer classes in at least two foreign languages, beginning in the 2014-2015 school year.  One of these foreign languages must be Spanish, while the second foreign language may be determined by state and local policy.

2. Elementary and secondary schools offering classes in two or more foreign languages may request aid from the Mideast Department of Education, contingent upon the parameters set out in sections 3, 4, and 5 of this act.  Upon receiving a written request, the Mideast Department of Education is required to grant support to the school in question to help cover the costs of at least two but no more than three foreign languages. Schools which receive support by the Mideast Department of Education are required to use all funding and/or logistic help for the purposes designed in Section 1 of this Act.

3. If a school currently has no foreign languages in its curricula or if it does not currently teach Spanish, the Mideast DoE grants shall cover 75% of the cost for the first foreign language and/or the addition of Spanish to the curricula.

4. If a school currently has one or more foreign languages in its curricula, including Spanish, the Mideast DoE grants shall cover 50% of the cost for each additional foreign language up to three total languages in the curricula.

5. If a school currently has three or more foreign languages in its curricula, including Spanish, it is not eligible for these grants.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Anna Komnene on December 02, 2013, 06:30:10 PM
Quote
Native American Financial Aid Act

1) The Mideast region shall establish an annual fund for the "Native American Dreams Scholarship."

2) Any enrolled member of a Mideast Regional Native American Tribe and their children shall be eligible for this scholarship if they are attending a college or university in the Mideast region.  Awards shall be made to all eligible applicants.

3) Eligible applicants shall receive grants of up to $2500 per year for up to four years of full time university study, including summer courses if applicable.  Students shall be eligible for five years of funding if the student's program specifically requires it.

4) The Mideast Department of Indian Affairs shall solicit and manage donations from interested citizens to help fund the Native American Dreams Scholarship, in addition to the public funding provided by the Mideast region.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 02, 2013, 07:25:23 PM
Quote
Mideast Financial Education Act

Recognizing that Atlasian youth are are particularly prone to harming their long term financial health through poor financial decisions immediately after high school, and that education is the best way to remedy this:

1) All certified high schools in the Mideast are hereby required to teach a personal finance course to students who are enrolled in their senior year's. Curriculum covered in this course must include but is not limited to:
a) How to prepare a personal tax return as well as some of the most common tax credits available to Atlasians 
b) Loans and interest rates with particular emphasis on mortgages, credit cards, and student loans
c) Principles of investing, popular investment strategies, and tax shelters available to Atlasian investors.

2) All high school seniors will be required to take at least one semester's (4.5 months) worth of classes in order to graduate.

3) A 40 course will be made available during summer, Christmas and Spring breaks to certify teachers to teach this course. A bachelor's degree in Finance, Economics, Accounting, or Business will allow teachers to teach Personal Finance without the certification.

4)The total annual cost for the enactment of this legislation shall be TBD by game mod.

5) All schools will be required to comply with Sections 1 and 2 of this law by the beginning of the 2016-2017 school year.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Anna Komnene on December 03, 2013, 01:43:02 AM
Mideast Assembly Vacancy Amendment

Article III, Section 1, Clause 6 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

In the case of a vacancy in the Mideast Assembly, a special election shall be held to elect a new member of the Assembly.

a) The special election must take place at least 7 but not more than 14 days following the vacancy. The voting booth shall open between midnight Eastern Standard Time on a Thursday and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter and close exactly 72 hours later.

b) In order to be a candidate on the ballot, a candidate must declare their candidacy on the Candidate Declaration Thread at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of the election.

c) If the next regularly scheduled election for the Assembly is 14 days or less after the vacancy occurs, the Governor shall appoint a successor to fill the vacancy until the election.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on December 03, 2013, 12:28:08 PM
Mideast Tractor Production (Manufacturing) Bill

1. Recognising the critical importance to the economy of Mideastern Oblast of both manufacturing and agriculture, it is proposed to introduce vast new subsidies and other support for manufacture of tractors. This shall be approximately seventy million billion each year and shall be paid out of a new Mideast Oblast Government Agency; the Tractor Production Bureau (TRACPRODBURO).

2. TRACPRODBURO shall establish tractor factories in the following counties:

Boone, Braxton, Brooke, Fayette, McDowell, Mingo, and Marion, all in the state of West Virginia.

Ballard, Elliott, Floyd, Harlan, Knott, Muhlenberg, and Pike, all in the state of Kentucky.

Cuyahoga, Jefferson, Lucas, Mahoning, Scioto, Trumbull, and Washington, all in the state of Ohio.

Genesee, Gogebic, Houghton, Marquette, Wayne, all in the state of Michigan.

Douglas, Menominee, and Milwaukee, all in the state of Wisconsin.

Alexander, Cook, Franklin, Rock Island, and St. Clair, all in the state of Illinois.

New Madrid, St. Louis City, and Washington, all in the state of Missouri.

Delaware, Lake, Vermillion, all in the state of Indiana.

Buchanan, and Norton City, both in the state of Virginia.

Baltimore City, in the state of Maryland.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on December 12, 2013, 07:56:08 PM
Mideast Centres for Progressive Cultural Enlightenment and Re-Eduction Bill

1. Recognising the critical importance of loyalty to the principles of Cultural Marxism, it is proposed to re-educate members of criminal fraternities, political deviants, traitors, trotskyists, and telemarketers at officially established Centres for Progressive Cultural Enlightenment and Re-Education.

2. These Centres shall be run by a new state agency known as GULAG, the head of which shall be appointed by the Cultural Marxist Party of Atlasia's Director of Cultural Enlightenment.

3. GULAG will be entirely self-financing. This shall be guaranteed by giving GULAG the power of Eminent Domain over the properties of inmates in GULAG's educational facilities.

4. Official GULAG Centres for Progressive Cultural Enlightenment and Re-Education will be established in Menominee County, WI, Keeweenaw County, MI, in McDowell and Webster Counties, WV, and in Knott and Harlan Counties, KY.

5. The result will be a massive fall in anti-social behavior, all incurred at comparatively little cost to the taxpayers of Mideast Oblast. Establishment of GULAG centres will also create jobs in remote areas.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Anna Komnene on December 13, 2013, 04:44:25 PM
Repeal of the Teaching Reform Act of 2012

The "Teaching Reform Act of 2012" is hereby repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 18, 2013, 03:17:38 PM
Quote
Mideast Tax Relief on Essential Items Act
1) Utility bills for water, home heating, and electricity are hereby exempt from the regional sales tax.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: ZuWo on December 19, 2013, 04:29:00 PM
Quote
Repeal of the "Questioning the Power Act"

The "Questioning the Power Act" is herebly repealed.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on December 21, 2013, 10:05:22 AM
Quote
Mideast Senate Vacancy Amendement

Article III, Section 6 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

Section 6: Senate Vacancy
1. If the Mideast Regional Senate Seat shall become vacant, the Governor and Lieutenant Governor of the Mideast shall jointly nominate a candidate to serve the remainder of the Term. In the event that 48 hours elapse without such action taken, said responsibility shall fall to the Speaker of the Assembly.

2. Upon the making of the appointment, the Speaker of the Mideast Assembly shall open a thread within 48 hours of the time of the appointment, henceforth referred to in this Bill as the Mideast Assembly Appointment Thread, in the Regional Governments subforum, in which the Nominee shall be debated, and ultimately voted upon, by the Assembly.

3. All other regulations which apply to a regular Bill under consideration by the Mideast Assembly shall apply to the Mideast Senate Appointment Thread.

4. A final vote must be called in the Mideast Senate Appointment Thread within 96 hours of the thread being opened.


1. If the Mideast Regional Senate seat shall become vacant, a special election shall be held to elect a new regional Senator, who may swear in immediately following certification of the election.

a) Once 120 hours have passed following the vacancy, the special election voting booth shall open between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the first Thursday thereafter and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter and close exactly 72 hours later.

b) If the next regularly scheduled election for the regional Senate is 14 days or less after the vacancy occurs, the Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall jointly appoint a successor to fill the vacancy until the regularly scheduled election, and a special election shall not be held.



Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on December 21, 2013, 10:12:07 AM
Quote
The Separation of Powers Amendment:

Article III, Section 2, Clause 2 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

2. Legislation shall be considered by the Assembly upon petition of any Assembly member, the Governor, the Lieutenant Governor, or three Mideast citizens.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 24, 2013, 01:07:19 AM
The Assembly is now in recess until 12:00 A.M. December 26th.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 26, 2013, 12:00:07 AM
The Assembly is back in session.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on December 29, 2013, 12:04:35 PM
Quote
Mideast Vacancy Amendment

1. Article III, Section 1, Clause 6 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read:

In the case of a vacancy in the Mideast Assembly, a special election shall be held to elect a new member of the Assembly.

a) The special election must take place at least 7 but not more than 14 days following the vacancy. The voting booth shall open between midnight Eastern Standard Time on a Thursday and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter and close exactly 72 hours later.

b) In order to be a candidate on the ballot, a candidate must declare their candidacy on the Candidate Declaration Thread at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of the election.

c) If the next regularly scheduled election for the Assembly is 14 days or less after the vacancy occurs, the Governor shall appoint a successor to fill the vacancy until the election.

2. Article III, Section 6 of the Mideast Constitution shall be amended to read as follows:

Section 6: Senate Vacancy

1. If the Mideast Regional Senate seat shall become vacant, a special election shall be held to elect a new regional Senator, who may swear in immediately following certification of the election.

a) Once 120 hours have passed following the vacancy, the special election voting booth shall open between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the first Thursday thereafter and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter and close exactly 72 hours later.

b) If the next regularly scheduled election for the regional Senate is 14 days or less after the vacancy occurs, the Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall jointly appoint a successor to fill the vacancy until the regularly scheduled election, and a special election shall not be held.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on December 31, 2013, 02:24:41 PM
Enemy Of The People Bill

1. The Atlasian citizen known as 'Inks.LWC' is hereby declared to be An Enemy Of The People and an Unperson. Thereafter he shall be known as 'Unperson Inks'.

2. Unperson Inks is to be put on trial for Treason against the People within three days of his Unpersoning.

3. Unperson Inks is to be executed by firing squad.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on January 02, 2014, 06:49:40 PM
Anti Fascist Protection Rampart Bill

1. In the interests of protecting the Workers, Peasants, and Unemployed Arty Types of the Mideastern Oblast from the pernicious effect of predatory state capitalism and the predatory capitalistic state, it is proposed to build the Anti Fascist Protection Rampart in the City of Nyman (formerly Washington) D.C.

2. The Anti Fascist Protection Rampart is defined as a very big wall.

3. It shall surround the entire city, excepting the following wards: 5, 6, 7, 8.

4. Payment for the construction of the Anti Fascist Protection Rampart shall be paid for by a new tax on middle managers.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Badger on January 02, 2014, 07:15:21 PM
God bless you Al. I haven't had so much fun reading this thread in years! :D


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Hifly on January 04, 2014, 11:59:32 AM
Quote
Fluoridation of Water Act

Recognising that promoting public oral and dental health is in the long term financial and social interests of this region

1. All cities in the Mideast region with a population above 150,000 are hereby required to fluoridate their drinking water.
2. An appropriate number of Fluoridation facilities are to be built in the region within or in the vicinity of said cities to implement the addition of the fluoride compound into the cities' drinking water.
3. The drinking water in all concerned cities is to be fluoridated to the level of 0.7 mg/L.
4. The total cost of implementing this Act is TBD by Game Mod.
5. The requirements of this Act are to be fully implemented by the end of 2016.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 20, 2014, 06:45:06 PM
OK, at this point, there's not much we can accomplish, so my plan is just to have a quiet week with no legislation.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 23, 2014, 06:52:25 PM
The Assembly is now in recess until 12:00 P.M. tomorrow, when the new session will begin.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 24, 2014, 12:02:43 PM
The 34th Session of the Assembly is now called to order. We will take nominations for Speaker for the next 48 hours. Please swear in.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 24, 2014, 06:47:41 PM
FYI, the 35th Session will be the last session in this thread; we'll start a new one after that.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 25, 2014, 07:03:27 AM
I nominate Inks for Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on January 25, 2014, 03:45:15 PM
I will second the nomination.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 26, 2014, 12:37:50 AM
I accept the nomination.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 26, 2014, 02:58:37 PM
Nominations are now closed.  I ask unanimous consent that Inks.LWC is elected Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 26, 2014, 03:04:43 PM
Without objection, so ordered.  Inks.LWC is elected Speaker.

Legislation may now be introduced.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Potus on February 01, 2014, 11:30:39 AM
Quote
Mideast Foster Care Reform Act of 2014
1. Wards of the state in the Foster Care system are hereby tied directly to their case, no exceptions.

2. Some children, if agreed to by the child’s advocate, may have their case transferred to a private organization that has been vetted.

3. These private organizations shall be responsible for providing all services currently available in the foster care system.

4. The benefits from being a foster parent are now taken by the child to the organization.

5. The child’s advocate is responsible for working with and moderating the activities and performance of the private organization.

6. Faith-based organizations are eligible, just like every other private organization, given that they maintain a separate set of books and accounts for any and all government money.

7. Businesses choosing to assist in the foster care system are hereby barred from receiving more in subsidies than they spend on the foster care provisions.

8. Organizations receiving outstanding evaluations from child advocates are eligible for more grant funding from the community development budget.

9. The entirety of the adoption process is tax deductible for the purposes of regional taxes.

10. Birth parents having their child placed in foster care shall have 2% of their wages deducted and placed into the Foster Child Opportunity Fund(FCOF),  a trust fund.

11. Taxes on legalized drugs are hereby increased 2%, with additional revenue added to FCOF.

12. Any adult convicted of abusing a child shall hereby incur an additional $1,000 fine also to be added to FCOF.

13. Any adult convicted of child pornography shall hereby incur an additional $1,000 dine also to be added to the FCOF.

14. The FCOF shall make scholarships, and other financial aid for pursuing higher education available to children aging out of the foster care system.

15. Children adopted out of the foster care system shall have their share of the trust placed in an investment account to grow over time into a college, retirement, or health savings account.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: PPT Spiral on February 07, 2014, 04:29:57 AM
Quote
Amendment to the Mideast Non-Reusable Bag Act

1. Beginning in 2014, no non-reusable bag shall be provided to a shopper in any store in the Mideast region.

2. A non-reusable bag is hereby defined as a disposable plastic bag.

3. All paper bags distributed in the Mideast Region must be made of at least fifty percent recycled material.

4. A tax of 7 cents shall be charged for every paper and non-reusable bag distributed in the Mideast Region


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Potus on February 08, 2014, 03:48:36 PM
Quote
Mideast Personal Tax Reform Act of 2014

1. All tax expenditure except for the following are hereby abolished:
   a. Research and Development Breaks
   b. Medical Savings/Health Savings Accounts
   c. Deductibility of Medical Expenses
   d. Charitable Contributions
   e. Child Credit
   f. Adoption and foster care credit
   g. Enterprise & Empowerment Zones
   h. Earned Income Tax Credit          

2.The Farm Income Stabilization and Crop Insurance is hereby abolished.

3. The following personal income tax rates are hereby set:
   0%  $0-$50,000
   1%  $50,001-$100,000
   2% $100,000-$1,000,000
   3% $1,000,001+

15.95 tax expenditure kept in place, 34.15 in savings.

2.95 in savings from the farm subsidies being cleared out.

Will need assistance in determining how things balance from the revenue side of things. It only needs to raise 7.254 bil to break even, according to the 2013 budget. I imagine that the brackets in the bill will raise more than that.

We also need to consider the boost this could give to sales taxes. More spending money for low and middle income earners will result in an increased sales tax revenue.

I plan on utilizing the credits left in the bill for future legislation. And I think they're just good.


EDIT: When I say it takes 7.254 to break even, I mean 7.254 to keep from touching the surplus. Right now, this couldn't really force us into a deficit using 2013 budget numbers.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Potus on February 11, 2014, 01:03:20 AM
Quote
Mideast Audit Resolution of 2014

1. NOTING the budgetary threat of wasteful spending.

2. UNDERSTANDING that waste detracts from the provision of government services.

3. CONCERNED by the upcoming budgetary situation of the Mideast Government.

4. NOTING WITH REGRET the lack of measures taken by the Assembly to ensure an efficient and waste-free government.

5. HOPING that the Assembly will bring for a new standard of accountability and efficiency in regional government.

6. THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that this Mideast Assembly:
   a. require the executive branch to perform an audit of the whole regional government by
            March 10th
        b. eliminate all spending identified as wasteful by said audit
        c. recommend an audit before the approval of a budget
        d. foster a culture of responsibility within regional government

It's a resolution, therefore it's supposed to be "fluffy." Assures taxpayers' their money is being used correctly.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 29, 2014, 12:12:42 AM
The 35th Session of the Assembly is now called to order.  Members, please swear in.  I will now open the floor for nominations for Speaker.  Nominations will remain open for 48 hours.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Potus on March 29, 2014, 12:44:23 AM
I nominate Inks for Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on March 29, 2014, 11:21:59 PM

I second that, if necessary.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Cassius on March 30, 2014, 10:56:35 AM

Thirded.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 31, 2014, 11:26:49 AM
I accept the nomination.  Seeing no other nominations, I ask unanimous consent that Inks.LWC be elected Speaker.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 31, 2014, 11:27:40 AM
Seeing no objections, Inks.LWC has been elected Speaker.

Legislation may now be introduced.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Potus on April 02, 2014, 08:17:10 AM
Quote
Mideast Health Cost Containment Act of 2014

1. The following line items in the Tax Expenditure section of the Mideast Budget of 2013 are hereby repealed:
   -Employer-Paid Health Insurance
   -Self-employed medical insurance premium
   -Deductibility of medical expenses

2. The “Standard Health Credit” is hereby established.

3. The Standard Health Credit provides an annual $3,500 refundable tax credit for individuals and an annual $8,000 refundable tax credit for a family of three. The Standard Health Credit is the same no matter the cost of the healthcare plan purchased.

4. The “Mideast Wellness Agency” is hereby established following the approval of the next budget.

5. The Mideast Wellness Agency(MWA) shall be responsible for administering Employee Wellness Programs within the Mideast.

6. Employers may opt in to an Employee Wellness Program to take advantage of incentives determined by the MWA.

7. The MWA is responsible for developing an incentive program for both employees and employers. The incentive program shall not operate at a loss.

8. Employee Wellness Programs shall involve the setting of health goals, reward the achievement of those goals, and encouraging employees in the Mideast to enroll in Employee Wellness Programs.

9. The logistics of implementing Employee Wellness Programs will be the responsibility of the MWA.

10. The MWA shall develop criteria for “High Risk Pools” for high-risk patients.

11. The “Health Risk Management Program” is hereby established, administered by the MWA.

12. Patients meeting the criteria for High Risk Pooling will be eligible to receive an additional voucher, amount determined by the MWA, to purchase private health insurance.

13. Patients in High Risk Pools are automatically enrolled in the the Health Risk Management Program.

14. Patients failing to attain the goals they set in the Health Risk Management Program shall have their voucher reduced on a rubric designed by the MWA.

15. Patients setting ambitious goals, as determined by the MWA, shall receive an additional incentive upon fulfillment of the goals. The incentive will be designed by the MWA.

16. Patients determined to be eligible for High Risk Pools but do not enroll shall pay the following:
   -$45 Co-pay on every doctor visit
   -$25 fee on chronic care supplies, as defined by the MWA.
   -3% of total annual care costs to the patient, capped at $2,500
   -.7% payroll levy

17. The plan purchased with the voucher must include full coverage of the patient’s high-risk condition and sufficient coverage, as determined by the MWA, of catastrophic care costs.

18. The MWA shall hold hearings with insurance companies and healthcare providers to establish prices for high-risk individuals. The goal of the MWA meetings is to negotiate lower prices for high-risk individuals.

19. Create “Healthcare Efficiency Tax Deduction”(HETD) for healthcare providers.

20. Healthcare providers seeking to take advantage of the HETD will submit their pre-tax business costs to the MWA. The next year, those same healthcare providers will file their pre-tax business costs with the MWA.

21. The HETD is equivalent to 20% of the difference between the years filed.

22. The MWA will hold the pre-tax business costs records no longer than 2 years.

23. If the pre-tax business costs increase over the given time, the HETD is a negative tax deduction. The healthcare provider’s taxable income is increased by 20% of the increased cost of care.

24. A $10 fee is placed on both the healthcare provider and the consumer for the first filling of a prescription.

25. The healthcare provider pays the fee at the time of tax filing. The consumer pays the fee at the pharmacy at the time of filling.

26. Generic drugs are exempt from the consumer fee.

27. The healthcare provider prescription fee is paid into the MWA to support its programs.

28. Excise Taxes are adjusted as shown:
          Cigarettes: 60% 70% Manufacturers Price     
          Other Tobacco Prod: 60% 70% Manufactures Price   
          Distilled Spirits: $2.75 $2.95per gallon     
          Wine: $0.35 $0.55 per gallon           
          Beer: $0.35 $0.55 per gallon
          Marijuana: 30% 40% sales tax

29. Direct spending shall be reduced by 2%. The Governor shall have the authority to implement the spending cuts wherever they see fit.

The Mideast is the largest recipient of federal Fritzcare money, 273 billion. As the dialogue at the federal level about healthcare continues, the Mideast can do our part to help in the federal reforms to come by cutting our healthcare costs. That is the purpose of this legislation.


So, let me take this item by item.

Standard Health Credit(SHC)-  We pay for a large portion of the Standard Health Credit by eliminating the existing health tax credits. The credit is refundable meaning that it is essentially a subsidy for low-income families. The SHC encourages frugality and makes quality, private insurance possible for every citizen of the Mideast.

Setting Up the MWA- This agency will essentially serve as our chief healthcare agency. It will make administration of healthcare policies simpler and more cost-effective. It is also worth noting that the agency will not add an unfunded dime to the budget. It is in the bill that they can't operate at a loss.

Employer Wellness Programs- These programs, run by the MWA, will cut healthcare costs in the intermediate to long term. It is a great way to encourage healthiness and reduce longterm demand on our hospitals.

High Risk Pools- These are also controlled by the MWA. The pools will cut premiums for the vast majority while also doing what is best for high-need individuals. The Risk Management component serves to once again cut costs. The penalties for not enrolling in HRP's if you're eligible is designed to pay your share of the disproportionate costs you put on the healthcare system.

Healthcare Efficiency Tax Deduction- This one is pretty straightforward. If you cut costs, you get a tax cut. If you increase costs, you pay more. This is designed to cut the cost-of-delivery and lower premiums and out-of-pocket costs on patients and insurers.

Prescription surcharges- The provider fee is designed to tackle the issue of over-prescription. If people don't need medicated, don't medicate them. It's supposed to increase the longevity of drugs. The consumer fee with the generic exemption is a cost containment thing. By encouraging use of generics, we're going to significantly reduce spending on prescription drugs.

Excise Tax Increases- The items I've raised taxes on all contribute to higher healthcare costs. By raising revenue on these items, we're also cutting their use. This is the most sensible way to raise revenue for healthcare policies since the tax increases alone are cost containment measures.

Spending Reduction- Keeping our belts tightened and paying for a worthwhile program. The cut is over 5 billion dollars and helps pay for a very large portion of this bill.


Title: Re: Mideast Assembly Thread
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on May 22, 2014, 07:58:04 PM
I'm now going to adjourn this session.  The new session will open tomorrow at noon in a new thread.