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Election Archive => 2008 U.S. Presidential Election Campaign => Topic started by: Applezz on November 12, 2008, 12:04:24 am



Title: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Applezz on November 12, 2008, 12:04:24 am
Give SPECIFIC reasons and list the poor decisions he made.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: ?????????? on November 12, 2008, 12:33:40 am
LBJ

-Failed War on Poverty
-Political Opportunist


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Platypus on November 12, 2008, 12:35:46 am
Which Bush?


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Nym90 on November 12, 2008, 12:38:36 am
LBJ

-Failed War on Poverty
-Political Opportunist

By failed I assume you mean that the national poverty rate is higher today than it was before those policies were implemented? Because presumably that'd be the first statistic to look at in determining that.

That being said, there were certainly things I didn't like about him either, but I still think he was pretty vastly underrated, at least by a lot of people who look only at Vietnam. He was very old school even for his time, which got him into a lot of unnecessary trouble.

I voted Bush 43, though he was far from the worst President of all time as many have suggested. Quite several that were worse in the 1800's and early 1900's.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on November 12, 2008, 01:31:38 am
I go with Reagan, for establishing the whole tax-and-don't spend mentality.

On the plus side, it makes the Democrats the fiscally responsible party.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: WillK on November 12, 2008, 07:43:22 am
Give SPECIFIC reasons and list the poor decisions he made.

Bush.
For starters:
- Wrecked US budget by turning surplus into biggest deficit ever.
- Wrecked US standing in the world with failed diplomatic and war policies.



Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Aizen on November 12, 2008, 03:49:26 pm
Bush. Although I am happy he's caused massive long-term damage to the Republican party.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on November 12, 2008, 03:51:05 pm
George W. Bush has wrecked our international reputation, bogged us down in two wars, and had done nothing to confront a host of other issues.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: HappyWarrior on November 12, 2008, 03:55:20 pm
Reagan, due to the reason that Xahar already said as well as his creation of international crisises rather than extiguishing them.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: memphis on November 12, 2008, 03:56:17 pm
Easily Bush. Outside of increasing funding to fight HIV, I can't think of a single effective decision he has made. Tax cuts for the wealthy, cronyism, Iraq, aversion to alternative energy other than the epic fail ethanol... Nixon, OTOH, is one of the most highly underrated presidents. If you can get past Watergate (which can be troublesome) he wasn't bad at all.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Nixon in '80 on November 12, 2008, 04:12:15 pm
Carter:

Malaise
Stagflation
Energy Crisis
Rejection of the Shah
Supporting rebels in Afghanistan (I realize Reagan continued this policy, and it's a black mark on his record, also.)
Budget Deficit
Inability to manage and delegate.

W. has been pretty bad, but Carter takes the cake, in my opinion.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon on November 12, 2008, 04:27:50 pm
Carter:

Malaise
Stagflation
Energy Crisis
Rejection of the Shah
Supporting rebels in Afghanistan (I realize Reagan continued this policy, and it's a black mark on his record, also.)
Budget Deficit
Inability to manage and delegate.

W. has been pretty bad, but Carter takes the cake, in my opinion.


Carter, for all the reasons stated above.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 12, 2008, 06:23:57 pm
Carter:

Malaise
Stagflation
Energy Crisis
Rejection of the Shah
Supporting rebels in Afghanistan (I realize Reagan continued this policy, and it's a black mark on his record, also.)
Budget Deficit
Inability to manage and delegate.

W. has been pretty bad, but Carter takes the cake, in my opinion.


Carter, for all the reasons stated above.

Same here.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Lief 🐋 on November 12, 2008, 06:34:03 pm
Bush. Although I am happy he's caused massive long-term damage to the Republican party.



Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: perdedor on November 12, 2008, 10:34:02 pm
I vote for Reagan for giving a politically popular voice to an asinine economic concept that, for some time, was the basis for winning presidential elections. Reagan effectively, and maybe proudly used the ignorance of the American public to push through his corporatist agenda. the arms race is also a factor.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: ?????????? on November 12, 2008, 10:46:58 pm
I vote for Reagan for giving a politically popular voice to an asinine economic concept that, for some time, was the basis for winning presidential elections. Reagan effectively, and maybe proudly used the ignorance of the American public to push through his corporatist agenda. the arms race is also a factor.

Hate on the man that won the cold war?


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Smash255 on November 12, 2008, 10:58:03 pm
I vote for Reagan for giving a politically popular voice to an asinine economic concept that, for some time, was the basis for winning presidential elections. Reagan effectively, and maybe proudly used the ignorance of the American public to push through his corporatist agenda. the arms race is also a factor.

Hate on the man that won the cold war?

Reagan didn't win the cold war any more than the Presidents preceding him dating back to Ike.... 

Iran-Contra (one of the largest scandals in our nation's history, that doesn't get the attention it deserves) among other things automatically puts Regan near the top of this list.  But George W Bush wins this one hands down.  Just a complete and utter failure.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Nixon in '80 on November 12, 2008, 11:58:24 pm
Reagan didn't "win" the Cold War, but he definitely helped. Ultimately, we didn't win the Cold War, the Soviet Union lost it. Reagan just hastened their loss by restarting the arms race.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: WillK on November 13, 2008, 12:04:27 am
I vote for Reagan for giving a politically popular voice to an asinine economic concept that, for some time, was the basis for winning presidential elections. Reagan effectively, and maybe proudly used the ignorance of the American public to push through his corporatist agenda. the arms race is also a factor.

Hate on the man that won the cold war?

That Reagan won the cold war is one of the biggest distortions of American history.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on November 13, 2008, 12:07:43 am
Its really hard to choose as Nixon, Ford and Carter were all disasters.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Franzl on November 13, 2008, 07:29:46 am
Dubya


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: minionofmidas - supplemental forum account on November 13, 2008, 12:30:57 pm
(a President) didn't "win" the Cold War, but he definitely helped. Ultimately, we didn't win the Cold War, the Soviet Union lost it. (a President) just hastened their loss by restarting the arms race.
The name is Carter.

Not saying the Carter/Callahan/Schmidt plan would have gone through if these men had stayed in power... not a safe thing to say at all, actually... but Conservative involvement in thinking it up is zilch.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Nixon in '80 on November 13, 2008, 05:41:22 pm
(a President) didn't "win" the Cold War, but he definitely helped. Ultimately, we didn't win the Cold War, the Soviet Union lost it. (a President) just hastened their loss by restarting the arms race.
The name is Carter.

Not saying the Carter/Callahan/Schmidt plan would have gone through if these men had stayed in power... not a safe thing to say at all, actually... but Conservative involvement in thinking it up is zilch.

I must admit I am not familiar with this plan, please elaborate.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: WillK on November 13, 2008, 05:44:30 pm
Reagan didn't "win" the Cold War, but he definitely helped. Ultimately, we didn't win the Cold War, the Soviet Union lost it. Reagan just hastened their loss by restarting the arms race.

He also hastened it by continuing Carter's support for the rebels in Afganistan, though it appears that to that was a bad idea.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: J. J. on November 13, 2008, 08:23:00 pm
Carter, for the reasons stated.  Every president since was better.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Nixon in '80 on November 13, 2008, 08:31:47 pm
Reagan didn't "win" the Cold War, but he definitely helped. Ultimately, we didn't win the Cold War, the Soviet Union lost it. Reagan just hastened their loss by restarting the arms race.

He also hastened it by continuing Carter's support for the rebels in Afganistan, though it appears that to that was a bad idea.

Agreed.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Lunar on November 13, 2008, 08:33:08 pm

lol


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Jacobtm on November 13, 2008, 09:01:23 pm
Carter's problems were thing that he could've dealt with better, but did not create.

Bush was responsible for leaving Rumsfeld in charge of a losing war for 3 years out of a sense of loyalty. Once leadership changed, we saw that the war in Iraq wasn't a lost cause, it was only the incompetent leadership we'd had that made it seem as such.

Lyndon Johnson on the other hand, neither got us out of Vietnam, nor provided us with a winning strategy. And unlike Bush, he actually believed that there was no way to win, and sent far more thousands of young soldiers off to their death.

Also, draft vs. no draft, Bush clearly comes out least bad.

But of course, Johnson did sign the voting rights act, so it's all a mixed bag.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: ?????????? on November 13, 2008, 09:43:29 pm
But of course, Johnson did sign the voting rights act, so it's all a mixed bag.

And then you have to take in to account that the Act was redundant in the first place. LBJs other problem was he was a very dirty politician who had no qualms about cheating and spying on political opponents.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: War on Want on November 13, 2008, 09:59:23 pm
Bush for obvious reasons but Reagan comes very close.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Jacobtm on November 13, 2008, 10:08:28 pm
But of course, Johnson did sign the voting rights act, so it's all a mixed bag.

And then you have to take in to account that the Act was redundant in the first place. LBJs other problem was he was a very dirty politician who had no qualms about cheating and spying on political opponents.

Of course, and even after the signing of the Civil Rights Act there was problem with enforcement for years and years, but that doesn't mean that it didn't have an impact; it most certainly did.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: phk on November 13, 2008, 10:11:58 pm
Can't say yet


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: A18 on November 13, 2008, 10:59:42 pm
I'll go ahead and commit heresy by saying that Carter is one of our better presidents. In the past 50 years, he and Eisenhower are the closest we've come to a non-imperial presidency. And while both made major blunders, neither significantly undermined American liberty.

But of course, Johnson did sign the voting rights act, so it's all a mixed bag.

And then you have to take in to account that the Act was redundant in the first place.

Redundant? The 1965 Voting Rights Act was flawed legislation--and certainly, the Act has only gotten worse with time--but hardly redundant.

Quote
LBJs other problem was he was a very dirty politician who had no qualms about cheating and spying on political opponents.

True. Of course, he was hardly alone in that regard...


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Robespierre's Jaw on November 13, 2008, 11:13:01 pm
I go with Reagan, for establishing the whole tax-and-don't spend mentality.

But Xahar, I thought it was Gordon Gekko. Conor's sad now :(:(:(:(

Anywho, as for the question, its a tie between Ronald Wilson Reagan and George Walker Bush for numerous reasons. Reaganomics plays a significant factor in my judgement, likewise with their disastrous foreign policies. Now if somebody tells me once more that Reagan "won" the Cold War I shall scream louder than Janet Leigh, in the 1960 Alfred Hitchcock film Psycho.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: ?????????? on November 14, 2008, 01:48:08 am
But of course, Johnson did sign the voting rights act, so it's all a mixed bag.

And then you have to take in to account that the Act was redundant in the first place.

Redundant? The 1965 Voting Rights Act was flawed legislation--and certainly, the Act has only gotten worse with time--but hardly redundant.

Yep, see the Fifteenth Amendment. See the biggest problem was and still is that when the government creates a law, enforces it in a piss poor manner then enacts an even more regressive law.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on November 14, 2008, 06:44:37 am
I'll go ahead and commit heresy by saying that Carter is one of our better presidents. In the past 50 years, he and Eisenhower are the closest we've come to a non-imperial presidency. And while both made major blunders, neither significantly undermined American liberty.

But of course, Johnson did sign the voting rights act, so it's all a mixed bag.

And then you have to take in to account that the Act was redundant in the first place.

Redundant? The 1965 Voting Rights Act was flawed legislation--and certainly, the Act has only gotten worse with time--but hardly redundant.

Quote
LBJs other problem was he was a very dirty politician who had no qualms about cheating and spying on political opponents.

True. Of course, he was hardly alone in that regard...

Phil,

Boy, I couldn't disagree with you more.

Do you remember the double digit inflation?

Do you remember the gas lines?

Do you remember the American embassy personnel being held hostage?

Do you remember the attempt to get the Consumer Products Safety Commission to ban firearms?

Do you remember the crime rate was higher in 1980 than at any time in the preceding or succeeding twenty seven years?

Do you remember how the military had been so short of funds it couldn't train or maintain its vehicles?

Do you remember Carter's infamous statement about not fearing communism (and denouncing those who opposed communist expansionism)?


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: WillK on November 14, 2008, 10:40:05 am
Quote
Do you remember the double digit inflation?

A result of the Nixon/Ford years.

Quote
Do you remember the gas lines?

I remember them from before Carter took office. 1973?

Quote
Do you remember the American embassy personnel being held hostage?

Carter mishandled a bad situaton that was created by the Nixon/Ford foreign policy mess.

Quote
Do you remember the attempt to get the Consumer Products Safety Commission to ban firearms?

That was during the Ford administration. 

Quote
Do you remember the crime rate was higher in 1980 than at any time in the preceding or succeeding twenty seven years?

It was higher under Bush (Sr.).

Quote
Do you remember how the military had been so short of funds it couldn't train or maintain its vehicles?

A result of the Nixon/Ford years.  Military spending went up under Carter.

Quote
Do you remember Carter's infamous statement about not fearing communism (and denouncing those who opposed communist expansionism)?

I remember the first part, about how we shouldn't be so being obsessively afraid of the commies, since we were better and stronger than them.  The other part I don't remember.   



Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: ?????????? on November 14, 2008, 11:37:16 am
Shift the blame is fun! In your warped world are Democrats guilty of anything?


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Workers' Friend on November 14, 2008, 11:39:42 am
Tie between Bush 43 and Ford, both have put the economy in a terrible state and have done nothing to help America.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: A18 on November 14, 2008, 12:35:40 pm
But of course, Johnson did sign the voting rights act, so it's all a mixed bag.

And then you have to take in to account that the Act was redundant in the first place.

Redundant? The 1965 Voting Rights Act was flawed legislation--and certainly, the Act has only gotten worse with time--but hardly redundant.

Yep, see the Fifteenth Amendment. See the biggest problem was and still is that when the government creates a law, enforces it in a piss poor manner then enacts an even more regressive law.

Oh, sure; racial discrimination in voting was already illegal. But the purpose of the Voting Rights Act was to enforce that Amendment through remedial and preventative measures. Those measures were scarcely redundant.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: ChrisFromNJ on November 14, 2008, 12:37:18 pm
Shift the blame is fun! In your warped world are Democrats guilty of anything?

He's just trying to bat down the usual right wing talking points. Good for him. They've been allowed to fester for far too long.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Cory Booker on November 14, 2008, 12:49:43 pm
In the order of failed recent presidents: Hoover, Nixon, Bush, Carter.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: JSojourner on November 14, 2008, 04:43:00 pm
The Decider.

With all the others, you can enumerate several scandals. major mistakes and bad ideas.  But more good ones. For Nixon, there was Watergate and Vietnam.  But there was also the EPA, the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts, the voting age and more.  For Carter, there was malaise and a flaccid response to Soviet aggression.  But there was Camp David.  For Reagan, there was a shameful support for death squads and brutish dictators.  But there was also a realistic and pragmatic engagement with our enemies that, backed with serious toughness, led to a dramatic de-escalation in international tension...and eventually, the utter collapse of Soviet Communism

For The Decider, I am not sure we have the bandwidth to relate every major cluster.  From Iraq, to politicizing the DoJ, to torture to the utter debacle that was Katrina...his was a Presidency that was a complete and total failure. Beyond the specific offenses, there's the wretching odor of a man who promised humility and delivered hubris...who promised to build bridges, but only managed to unify some Iraqis with Al Qaeda (when they were long time enemies)...and who considered razor thin election victories as "mandates" for his agenda.

This man is a spoiled rich boy in a sailor suit, with an all day sucker. 

In the interest of generosity, I can say his decision to protect a couple of wildlife and natural areas was both wise and "conservative" in the best sense of the word.  But even his AIDS relief program -- which I praised to the heavens at the time -- turned out to be smoke and mirrors.

I was not a big Clinton or Carter fan.  I see their errors and mistakes very clearly.  But forget the past 50 years.  America has never had a President in its history as awful as the self-proclaimed "Commader Guy".

I wish him health, happiness and prosperity in his retirement.   But as to his policies, good riddance to bad rubbish.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Torie on November 14, 2008, 04:53:11 pm
LBJ going away is the worst, and here are some of the reasons:

1. Carried on Vietnam thinking the war could not be won, but was unable to muster the courage to say so, and let the faucet flow of American men into the bathtub, and down the drain at the bottom.

2. Guns and butter led to letting inflation out of the bottle, and it took close to 20 years to get it back in, with years of stagflation and recession.

3. Was a liar and corrupt, abused the FBI, and paved the way for Nixonian and to some extent Clintonian politics.

4. Helped weaken the family with the misdirected metrics of the War on Poverty, that exacerbated the underclass which festered until welfare reform in the 1990's.

5. Pushed through a poorly designed medicare system that was neither means tested nor triaged.



Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: J. J. on November 14, 2008, 05:14:40 pm
Quote
Do you remember the double digit inflation?

A result of the Nixon/Ford years.



In 1979, Nixon/Ford were long gone.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: perdedor on November 14, 2008, 05:35:38 pm
I vote for Reagan for giving a politically popular voice to an asinine economic concept that, for some time, was the basis for winning presidential elections. Reagan effectively, and maybe proudly used the ignorance of the American public to push through his corporatist agenda. the arms race is also a factor.

Hate on the man that won the cold war?

Do tell, friend...how is it that Reagan "won" the Cold War (as though the idea of "winning" a cold war isn't asinine enough). Either way, whether or not he secured a win in the most pointless dick waving contest in American history is irrelevant and in no way makes up "supply-side" economics and the debt which ballooned during his presidency and has continued to balloon under Presidents that buy into the ideology. A win in a pretend war and a cosmetic fiscal policy designed only to win elections. I can't say I am impressed.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on November 14, 2008, 05:42:56 pm
I go with Reagan, for establishing the whole tax-and-don't spend mentality.

But Xahar, I thought it was Gordon Gekko. Conor's sad now :(:(:(:(

I'm sorry. :(

The collapse of the Soviet Union was caused by internal factors.

That is all.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: TXsaff on November 14, 2008, 05:46:53 pm
Nixon....Ford wasn't that bad of a President...he just really didn't do anything. My dad met him once, apparently he was a pretty friendly and decent fellow.

Carter comes next, then I guess Reagan and Daddy Bush.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: paul718 on November 14, 2008, 05:51:08 pm
It's between Johnson, Carter, and Bush 43.  Carter and Bush inherited a lot, and had more to deal with than other presidencies (i.e., Eisenhower and Clinton).  

Bush wasn't a great President but he was right on the economy most of the time.  And I say that by meaning he knew how NOT to do things (I don't think a President can actively make the economy "better".  He can only actively make it worse).  So he came into office during a recession (not Clinton's fault, IMO, just a natural cycle) and for the better part of his administration we've had economic prosperity.  My only economic gripe with him is the fact that he couldn't control the Congress in his first term, hammering all the discretionary spending they wanted right through.   And still, Iraq and the conduct of his primary agents (Cheney and Rumsfeld) were a huge error on his part and should not be easily forgiven.

Carter gets a bad rap.  The world handed him a lot of garbage during his term.  Economically, he faced significant challenges, but it seems as though every move he made was the wrong move and only made things worse.  But I do believe he made those moves on principle, so I won't call him the "worst" President, but more of the wrong President at the wrong time.  

LBJ, however, doesn't get a pass from me.  Not only did he prosecute a war as incompetently as Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, but he also decided it was the perfect time for massive social programs.  

It's difficult to compare presidencies because they haven't all dealth with the same level of challenges, but my rankings going back to Ike would go something like this...

1. Reagan
2. Kennedy
3. Clinton
4. Eisenhower
5. Bush 41
6. Ford
7. Nixon
8. Bush 43
9. Carter
10. Johnson


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Nixon in '80 on November 14, 2008, 07:18:46 pm
Nixon....Ford wasn't that bad of a President...he just really didn't do anything. My dad met him once, apparently he was a pretty friendly and decent fellow.

Carter comes next, then I guess Reagan and Daddy Bush.

Ford gave us the Helsinki Accords, a very politically unpopular move at the time, but one that eventually bore fruit in the form of the liberal democratic movements that swept through the communist bloc several years later. I believe this, alone, is enough to qualify him as an above-average President.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on November 14, 2008, 09:30:39 pm
Nixon....Ford wasn't that bad of a President...he just really didn't do anything. My dad met him once, apparently he was a pretty friendly and decent fellow.

Carter comes next, then I guess Reagan and Daddy Bush.

Ford gave us the Helsinki Accords, a very politically unpopular move at the time, but one that eventually bore fruit in the form of the liberal democratic movements that swept through the communist bloc several years later. I believe this, alone, is enough to qualify him as an above-average President.

Helsinki was meaningless.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: MR maverick on November 15, 2008, 06:54:13 am
Hoover , Carter, and Bush W.

After 2012 you can Add Barack H Obama to that list.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Nixon in '80 on November 15, 2008, 03:12:13 pm
Nixon....Ford wasn't that bad of a President...he just really didn't do anything. My dad met him once, apparently he was a pretty friendly and decent fellow.

Carter comes next, then I guess Reagan and Daddy Bush.

Ford gave us the Helsinki Accords, a very politically unpopular move at the time, but one that eventually bore fruit in the form of the liberal democratic movements that swept through the communist bloc several years later. I believe this, alone, is enough to qualify him as an above-average President.

Helsinki was meaningless.

Do you have an argument, or are you simply making ridiculous statements for fun?


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on November 17, 2008, 07:14:46 pm
Quote
Do you remember the double digit inflation?

A result of the Nixon/Ford years.

[

I'm going to post the refuation one by one Lunar.

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Consumer_Price_Index/HistoricalCPI.aspx?rsCPI_currentPage=2


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on November 17, 2008, 07:22:04 pm
Quote
Quote
Do you remember the gas lines?

I remember them from before Carter took office. 1973?

Quote

But, do you rememember the 1979-80 gas lines?  Or do you have selective memory, or severe memory lapses?


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on November 17, 2008, 07:30:06 pm
Quote


Quote
Do you remember the American embassy personnel being held hostage?

Carter mishandled a bad situaton that was created by the Nixon/Ford foreign policy mess.

Quote

Well its nice of you to admit that that was a "bad situation" and that Carter "mishandled" it,  but your attempt to blame everything that went wrong under Carter on Nixon/Ford is hysterically funny.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Beet on November 17, 2008, 07:51:23 pm
Nixon....Ford wasn't that bad of a President...he just really didn't do anything. My dad met him once, apparently he was a pretty friendly and decent fellow.

Carter comes next, then I guess Reagan and Daddy Bush.

Ford gave us the Helsinki Accords, a very politically unpopular move at the time, but one that eventually bore fruit in the form of the liberal democratic movements that swept through the communist bloc several years later. I believe this, alone, is enough to qualify him as an above-average President.

Dazzleman?


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on November 17, 2008, 08:23:02 pm
Quote
Carter mishandled a bad situaton that was created by the Nixon/Ford foreign policy mess.

 

Quote
Do you remember the crime rate was higher in 1980 than at any time in the preceding or succeeding twenty seven years?

It was higher under Bush (Sr.).



Here's the Murder and Nonnegligent Homicide rate (according the the Uniform Crime Statistics):

Year          Rate per 100,000 population

1980               10.2     
1989                 8.7
1990                 9.4
1991                 9.8
1992                 9.3


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Platitudes And Senility on November 21, 2008, 09:39:17 pm
Truman, for his idiotic handling of the Korean war. JFK is a close second, although maybe I just think he wasn't as good as most claim.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: paul718 on November 22, 2008, 06:51:37 pm
Truman, for his idiotic handling of the Korean war. JFK is a close second, although maybe I just think he wasn't as good as most claim.

Kennedy's tax policy was on point. 


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on November 26, 2008, 12:43:28 am
Nixon....Ford wasn't that bad of a President...he just really didn't do anything. My dad met him once, apparently he was a pretty friendly and decent fellow.

Carter comes next, then I guess Reagan and Daddy Bush.

Ford gave us the Helsinki Accords, a very politically unpopular move at the time, but one that eventually bore fruit in the form of the liberal democratic movements that swept through the communist bloc several years later. I believe this, alone, is enough to qualify him as an above-average President.

Helsinki was meaningless.

Do you have an argument, or are you simply making ridiculous statements for fun?

Have you evidence that it did something?

When I look at the reasons for the collapse of the USSR, Helsinki just doesn't figure.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: WillK on November 26, 2008, 09:17:56 am
Quote
Do you remember the double digit inflation?

A result of the Nixon/Ford years.

[

I'm going to post the refuation one by one Lunar.

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Consumer_Price_Index/HistoricalCPI.aspx?rsCPI_currentPage=2

Inflation was double digit throughout 1974 and into early 1975.  Check the source you just provided.   


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: WillK on November 26, 2008, 09:20:28 am
Quote
Quote
Do you remember the gas lines?

I remember them from before Carter took office. 1973?

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But, do you rememember the 1979-80 gas lines?  Or do you have selective memory, or severe memory lapses?

Sure there were gas lines in 79-80. 
There were also gas lines in 1973. 
Do you remember that?
Do you also remember that Carter didn't become president until 1977?
So how are you going to blame the 1973 gas lines on Carter?
Please explain for us.
Absolutely hysterical for you to come back with comments about selective memory. 


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: WillK on November 26, 2008, 09:45:02 am
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Carter mishandled a bad situaton that was created by the Nixon/Ford foreign policy mess.

 

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Do you remember the crime rate was higher in 1980 than at any time in the preceding or succeeding twenty seven years?

It was higher under Bush (Sr.).



Here's the Murder and Nonnegligent Homicide rate (according the the Uniform Crime Statistics):

Year          Rate per 100,000 population

1980               10.2     
1989                 8.7
1990                 9.4
1991                 9.8
1992                 9.3


You are being curiously selective in your statistics.

From the same source as you referenced:
Violent Crime Rates/100,000
1977     475.9 
1978    497.8    
1979    548.9
1980    596.6    
...
1989      663.1 
1990    731.8
1991     758.1
1992     757.5    


Murder did hit a peak during Carter's years.  But other types of violent crime (ie: forcible rape, robbery, aggravated assualt) were higher under Bush (Sr.)


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: WillK on November 26, 2008, 09:49:55 am
Quote


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Do you remember the American embassy personnel being held hostage?

Carter mishandled a bad situaton that was created by the Nixon/Ford foreign policy mess.

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Well its nice of you to admit that that was a "bad situation" and that Carter "mishandled" it,  but your attempt to blame everything that went wrong under Carter on Nixon/Ford is hysterically funny.

I did not blamed everything that went wrong on Nixon/Ford.  I did point out some issues where the same phenomenon was seen before or after Carter (gas lines, high crime) or where he inherited a problem not of his own making.   But you seem too blinded by your irrational partisanship to handle fact based discussion.




Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: pbrower2a on March 30, 2009, 01:51:16 am
George W. Bush.

He let himself be a stooge for Karl Rove, allowing a Party Boss to be a fourth branch of government contrary to the Constitution, and promoting the perverse "majority of a majority" system in which those who vote "wrong" get cheated. He bungled the response to Hurricane Katrina.  Surely he signed off on the outing of Valerie Plame Wilson.

He lied about the casus belli against Saddam Hussein. He enabled abuse of prisoners in prisons under US supervision and promoted a concept called "extraordinary rendition" that allowed those who ended up in American custody to be sent to countries in which they would be tortured.  He played word games to befuddle people. He promoted a speculative boom that could only go bust. Not since Herbert Hoover has any President been so thoroughly repudiated so quickly and completely -- and Hoover at least had a moral compass.

Has anyone noticed what a "non-person" he has become since his term of office expired?


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on March 30, 2009, 07:34:41 pm
Other: Clinton


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on March 30, 2009, 11:18:13 pm
     Carter, though not just naming every choice is just lazy.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Bo on February 12, 2010, 12:50:24 am
Other: JFK.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl on February 12, 2010, 12:59:35 am
LBJ for sure, followed by George W. Bush.

If Obama counts, then put him up there too.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Stuck with Sanders on February 12, 2010, 10:05:30 am
Carter:

Malaise
Stagflation
Energy Crisis
Rejection of the Shah
Supporting rebels in Afghanistan (I realize Reagan continued this policy, and it's a black mark on his record, also.)
Budget Deficit
Inability to manage and delegate.

W. has been pretty bad, but Carter takes the cake, in my opinion.


Rejection of Shah? Hahaha. Actually, not admitting him to the U.S. was pretty smart move and avoided additional troubles. Carter cannot be really blamed for Iranian revolution, as it was a consequence of politics impaled by the U.S. since Ike.

Budget deficit: Compare it to Bush one, ok?

Afghanistan? Lol, I thought you conservatives were so supportivbe to "freedom fighters".


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Mechaman on February 12, 2010, 02:45:09 pm
Carter:

Malaise
Stagflation
Energy Crisis
Rejection of the Shah
Supporting rebels in Afghanistan (I realize Reagan continued this policy, and it's a black mark on his record, also.)
Budget Deficit
Inability to manage and delegate.

W. has been pretty bad, but Carter takes the cake, in my opinion.


Rejection of Shah? Hahaha. Actually, not admitting him to the U.S. was pretty smart move and avoided additional troubles. Carter cannot be really blamed for Iranian revolution, as it was a consequence of politics impaled by the U.S. since Ike.

Budget deficit: Compare it to Bush one, ok?

Afghanistan? Lol, I thought you conservatives were so supportivbe to "freedom fighters".

Not sure about Iran, hell the fact that the Iranian Revolution was a problem for us should speak volumes about how out of control US foreign policy had got at that juncture. Blame Ike Boy for setting the stones in place for such an incident to occur in the first place.

Budget Deficit: I don't even know where to begin on this one. Sure Carter had a budget deficit but the fact that Reagan and Bush fanboys always bring this up is the definition of irony considering that Ronald Reagan, George HW Bush and Junior all exploded the deficit to heights that made Carter's deficit look like the world's smallest penis in comparison.

Afghanistan, you got a point there but like Kal said I find it ironic that some conservatives would be opposed to "freedumb fightun". There was this thing called the "Cold War" you see, except it really wasn't cold outside it was just a state of mind that existed between the superpowers of the Capitalistic West and the Communistic East. Conservatives back then could give a flip about Islamic extremists because they were worried that men dancing around in Red Pajamas drinking vodka and screaming "Vas Vadanya!" would nuke the f*** out of them. Now such an idea seems like utter nonsense, after all state communism is by definition utter nonsense, but back then even as late as 1979 there was a real fear that people were so idiotic that they would prefer the message of collectivist government with no fun over the semi-fun semi-cool capitalistic system of the west! This philosophy is what guided foreign policy between 1945-1991, because the threat of nuclear annhilation, without regarding the principle of Mutual Assured Destruction that states that all sides will avoid all out war in fear of creating a nuclear holocaust, as illogical as it seems to alot of people nowdays at least made somewhat more sense than "them third world tyrannical regimes will nuke the f*** out of us!" when our own nuclear arsenals outnumber theirs 1000 to 1 (at least).


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: hawkeye59 on February 15, 2010, 10:03:17 am
BUSH


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Bo on February 15, 2010, 03:28:17 pm

I'm assuming you mean Jr., right?


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: Stuck with Sanders on October 06, 2010, 07:06:57 am
Reagan.


Title: Re: Worst president in 50 years
Post by: feeblepizza on October 07, 2010, 08:02:27 pm
Definitely Carter.