Talk Elections

Anyone have any information on how (badly) he did?

I was interested in this too.  It seems that all the Italians I know are Republicans.

Hey, I'm Rob aka Eraserhead

Well now you know one who isn't. :)

I think most are Dems.

I'd expect Obama to do poorly among Italians but who knows this year?

Anecdotally all I know is

Eraserhead - Obama
SD Dem Party Voter Registrar - Obama
History teacher in HS and her daughters - Obama x 3
My friend Meghan - Obama
My friend James - Obama
My friend Clark - Obama
My friend Alex and her sisters and mom - Obama x 4
Her father - McCain
My friend Ryan (I think he's for McCain considering he's a Mormon from Fresno County who lives in Provo).
My friend Frank - McCain
My friend Herb and his family - McCain x 4
My friend Katie and her family - McCain x 4
KP - McCain

I guess an edge to McCain but my sample size of 24 isn't good enough.

There were over 160,000 votes on Staten Island.

and 98% of my sample lives in California.

From that anecdotally anyway, Obama easily won females and younger people.

Maybe it's just the people I know, but I live in a predominantly Italian neighborhood, so I know quite a few of them.  From discussions I had with many Italians, the impression I got was that because they're Catholics, they support the more christian-friendly party.
I'm surprised to hear that the majority are Democrats.

This friend of mine, was at first supporting Biden.  When Biden withdrew from the race, he began supporting Hilary.  When Hilary lost, he became a McCain supporter.  He then began learning more about the two parties tax proposals and their stance on guns (the two issues that concerned him the most) and he's now a Republican.  He's more of a Ron Paul supporter though.

I would guess that most are Roosevelt or Kennedy-Democrats (like my grandmother and mother, respectively), but vote independently.  Almost everyone I know voted for McCain, but I think that has more to do with geography than ethnicity. Then, there's the old-timers and zips who don't vote because they feel the U.S. government can't do anything for them.


We voted for a Democratic congressman this year.  And an Irish guy at that!  We all know the circumstances though. 

he seems to have done okay, going solely by county results. I mean yeah, the Italian vote is a lot more Republican now than it was in, say, the early 60s, but it probably still skews Democratic, and there's got to be a huge gender gap (white Catholics). Remember guys that Italian Americans in real life aren't like the ones in Spike Lee movies, and while Obama might have done a point or two worse than a generic Democrat would do, his race probably didn't cost him all that much with this group, especially since the busing wars ended some time ago.

I would expect there to be a pretty massive age gap. I could never really see my grandparents on my mother's side voting for Obama (they died a few years ago, so I can't say this for sure). My mother voted for Obama despite the fact that she probably holds to some stereotypical views about blacks but her older friend didn't despite the fact she's a Bush hater/ FDR lover. My brother and I voted for Obama with great enthusiasm of course though.

Around here they're the most Republican voting bloc except the obscenely wealthy. But that means the heavily Italian towns split pretty evenly, marginally McCain or marginally Obama. Which probably means the Italians themselves were about 60-40 Republican given the other demographics in such areas: blacks, Hispanics, Reform Jews, etc. That's not much changed from 2004, maybe a one- or two-point swing to Obama overall (so a trend to McCain).

Here are town-by-town results for far North Jersey (courtesy the Record); the towns in the southwest of Bergen County (eastern county) are heavily Italian, centered around Carlstadt and Rutherford.

http://dng.northjersey.com/media_server/tr/smaps/2008/electionresults2008/map/index.php

My city is becoming the suburban Catholic mecca of the Seattle area (the wealthier white Catholics that is---most of the Mexicans of course cannot afford to live here) so there's quite a few wops by NW standards (maybe 5-10% of the population), like that dumb fascist who keeps running for Governor. They're one of the more Republican groups in the area, though they still pale in comparison to the Mormons.

You're a fake Italian anyway.

The New York area Italian vote obviously went to McCain. Elsewhere, probably, mostly Obama.

Of the Italian-side of my family...

Myself - McCain
Father - McCain
Sister #1 - Obama
Sister #2 - Obama
Grandmother - Obama
Grandfather - Stayed home

I know in 2000/2004, only my father voted for Bush...but there may have been many "stay at homes" on my Italian side whereas they didn't want Obama and didn't want a Republican. Either way, definite lean Democrat.

Morris Park disagrees.

I am technically half-Irish though. Shh. ;)

I suggest that everyone watch "A Bronx Tale" to learn a little more about the relationship between blacks and Italians in New York (specifically The Bronx). lol.

Your grandmother actually voted for Obama? I thought she HATED a black.

The economic crisis topped it off.


 "Sometimes in the heat of passion, the little head tells the big head what to do, and the big head should think twice about what you are doing."

I used to date a girl from Morris Park.  Definitely no fake Italians there. 

Ever go to The Captain's? Best pizza ever, without a doubt.

I love the holidays, because my grandmother makes all the Italian food. She even makes biscotti's that taste incredible.

Nope, but we hung out at Tosca's a couple of times.  Though that's techincally Throg's Neck, isn't it.

Bingo  :P

Interesting. In Canada, Italians tend to be hardcore Liberals. They also hold an unusually high number of the mayorships for their population.

Ours tend to be liberal too, in the economic sense. They are somewhat conservative on social issues though, especially when it comes to "race".

Don't let the names confuse you. The Liberals in Canada are conservative (though not far-right).

They are generally moderate on economic issues and liberal on social issues or at least that was my understanding. I didn't note the capital "L" though when I responded to him.

How does one make the eye-rolling emoticon again?

But they are conservative, in a way that the Tories are not. Is it possible for a party not to be conservative after being in power so long?

Most Italians I know are also conservative, but more in the Giuliani-esque "tough cop" sense.  Italians are also more conservative than the Irish on business issues as well hence more Italians are business owners.  On social issues, I'd say they're about even with the Irish, but Irish are a smidge to the left economically hence more Democratic. 

Like I said, I really depends on the type of social issue with white ethnic Catholics- most are conservative on the crime/punishment and dare I say race issues, split on the "bedroom"/religious social issues.

I'd say that the Irish-Americans tend to be the left of Italian-Americans in most if not all areas.

It's not clear to me that they're to the left ideologically. Certainly tribally the Irish are Democratic and the Italians Republican. But that probably has more to do with "ancient" events than anything in the modern day.

Well, to be fair, that is mostly just based upon my own interactions with them. I do know a hell of a lot of them though. ;)

Xahar has a point. But, that's not a discussion for here. Italians here tend to be on the right of the Liberal Party anyways, if that has anything to with it. Italian politicians also tend to appear as more corrupt as well. (Gagliano, Volpi...)

I live in a very heavily Italian area, I would say most Italians around here are generally moderate on social and economic issues (though the wealthier ones tend to be more conservative economically) and generally a bit conservative on law and order  type issues.  I would need to see the precinct numbers to know for sure, but I would say my precinct was very close (Gore won it in 2000, Bush in 04) but the overall area went to McCain.  I think Obama did a bit better than Kerry in 04, but trended towards McCain compared to the national average. 

Where in NY are you?

Funnily enough I have been mostly spared intimate knowledge of either the Italians or the Irish.  I think the only Italian I know is half Jew, and thank goodness takes after that half.  His mother and grandmother however were Italian however - definitely Democrat though.

Come to think of it I have one Italian friend over here in Thailand, but he's a tattooed lady-boy-fanatic.. perhaps atypical?  Perhaps not?

Long Island-  Massapequa

It would be interesting to look at some cities/precincts with large Italian-American populations in places like Chicago, Cleveland, Buffalo compared with the metro-NY area population.

I suspect this will be difficult to quantify in much of the country, since by this point most second and third generation families have migrated to the suburbs and beyond outside of NY/NJ and small pockets elsewhere.

I suspect that the 3rd generation and beyond pretty much mirrors the White population of a similar demographic and region that they live and since it much more concentrated in the NE and Great Lakes district tends towards the Democratic party like many other older Whites in those regions.

It sounds like metro NY Italian-Americans might be a little more Republican than the average White population, certainly in Verily's sample of NJ.

Me too. Where I live you're either black or white. Nobody knows what to think of Asians and Hispanics :P

I'm an Italian.

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thank you.

We have many things to be thankful for because of that great man.

OK----- not to rain on the parade here but are you both really thanking a corrupt populist quasi-fascist political figure?

Berlusconi got his financial start involving corrupt construction contracts with state dollars, then gravitated towards generating a media monopoly with similar financial dealings in that sector. Then was elected PM after forming an alliance with the Fascists and anti-immigrant LN movement, and later presided over the police murder of an anti-globalization demonstrator in Genoa a few years back.

Are both of you claiming that this populist, corrupt, ally of Fascist leaning political movements is a genuine FF? Surely there must be a better example of Italian heroes.

Welcome to the forums

My "admiration" for Berlusconi is only half serious. I'm more of a fan of his party and him being a thorn in the side of the leftists in Europe.

You raise valid complaints but the "presided over the police murder of an anti-globalization demnstrator in Genoa" is just beyond ridiculous. Seriously. He was Prime Minister at a time when a demonstrator was killed. You act as if he ordered the murder. Don't be disingenuous. That's not like you.

OK--- I'll grant you that claiming that he was in any way directly involved, or that the death of a demonstrator was premeditated would be an absurd claim to make.

I followed the demonstrations closely through European websites at the time, and there were multiple instances of extreme police brutality including an incident where a school where several hundred demonstrators was raided by police as they were lined up against a wall, beaten with clubs, and forced to sing Fascist anthems to pictures of Mussolini. This was not at one of the Anarchist community centers, where violent actions were being planned.

The broader point is that he is more corrupt than Blago, and has had key allies on the extreme-Right at times during his coalition governments in a country where there is still a significant minority that has Fascist sympathies. Unfortunately the method of crowd control that he endorsed for the G-8 summit gave license to the more extreme-right elements of the police force to use methods that haven't been applied in Italy in decades.

I normally don't react to political postings in a particularly emotional fashion, but I lived in Europe for awhile and am sensitive to any mainstream political figure that gives license to the darker elements of the extreme-right. In my view Berlusconi offers nothing to a real center-right Italian political movement, and there are much better political figures to embrace that offer more for the future of that country and the world.

I've made clear that I don't like some of Berlusconi's allies. I can't stand Lega Nord and Bossi. I'm also not naive enough to think that Berlusconi is the most ethical man. I "admire" him mostly for his entertainment, his party and how he drives the European left crazy.


Well, I don't know if Fini is much better...


;)

Sure are alot of Italians around here.