Talk Elections

I found this news story today: http://donklephant.com/2009/04/02/ron-paul-supporter-detained-by-tsa-for-carrying-cash/

I have to say, while the motives of TSA may be good, they have to be one of the worst government agencies we have.

This guy needs to make sure that his story gets out there so that people are more aware of some of the government intrusion that's going on.

Love the way that guy handled himself with the fuzz.  What a disgrace.  Since when does carrying cash equal reasonable suspicion? 

I doubt it had anything to do with being a Ron Paul worker though.

I have to agree with the TSA that carrying more than $500 or so in cash is definitely suspicious. Usually a sign of drug trafficking or other illegal smuggling (but most smuggling is in the drug trade), or possibly counterfeiting (although that's unusual).

Nonsense.  Carrying a large amount of cash is a sign of nothing other than carrying a large amount of cash.  And $500 is peanuts if you're going somewhere where credit and debit cards aren't in much use.

It's not against the law to carry as much cash as you want (except that you need to declare if you're bringing more than $10,000 in cash in or out of the country).

The federal civil asset forfeiture laws were amended in 2000 because they were being abused by law enforcement, and the federal circuit courts have been clawing back on the circumstances under which just carrying cash is probable cause for anything else.

That pretty much sums it up.  I can't remember the last time I boarded a plane with less than $1000 cash, in my pocket.  The first two times I went overseas my ATM card got eaten.  Blind luck, I know, but still a good reason to carry a bundle.

Admittedly, travel internationally would mean carrying more cash is reasonable. Without the circumstances of this particular case, we don't know. But, really, carrying more than $500 traveling domestically? That's paranoid, or, more likely, the result of criminal activity.

Again, nonsense. 

It could be a sign of selling a bunch of books at a conference (which is exactly what it was here) - a legitimate business activity.  It could be a sign of bringing extra cash so as not to incur needless out-of-network ATM fees when trying to get cash in another state.  It could be a sign of a rich person giving a large cash wedding present to a well-to-do-couple or Christmas gifts to his family and friends.  It could be a sign of someone who doesn't have a bank account (believe it or not, those people do exist, and not always because they're paranoid and don't trust banks) and doesn't want to leave cash from their last paycheck sitting unattended at home where it could be stolen.  It could be a sign of someone bringing a security deposit on an out-of-state apartment to a rental company that won't take out-of-state checks.  It could be a sign of someone who just likes to carry around a lot of cash or doesn't have a debit or credit card and needs to carry a lot of cash when away from home - particularly among older people.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to carry a lot of cash.  And $500 isn't a ton of money these days, anyway.

For christ's sakes people its $4,700!  Its nothing.  Only in a place like St. Louis would that seem like a lot of money.

Now if he had like a hundred thousand or something on him, then it would be worthy of interest, though it almost certainly would have nothing to do with drug activity.  Most people who carry large amounts of cash are just doing tax evasion.  But $4,700 is just normal spending money for rich people.

His real crime is probably that he didn't fly first class. 

Certainly the cause for the arrest - too much money for a worker.

4700 is a lot of money - more than I've ever had in my hand at one time (though it's been four digits before, easily) - I can *see* why someone would ask (if they happened to know. I've certainly never yet been asked to open my wallet at an airport. ???) I can then *see* why he might be arrested if he behaved the way cops - and especially US cops by the way they're portrayed in books and films - don't like to be behaved to. Such as telling them they have no legal right to know or something. Which doesn't make it *the right thing to do*.

So yah, in between the Blue&Yellow Avatars on the one side, and Verily on the other. :)

This is ultimately the real point - cops everywhere, and particularly american cops, are just thugs.  The system, though a violent, brutal, and dangerous one to the lower classes, ultimately will not actually prosecute the worker for having $4,700 cash, since there is no practical reason to do so.  However the cops will beat him silly for being uppity.

Slap a TSA patch on a moron and their still a moron.

The TSA is where you work when you can't pass the psych exam to be a cop.

And Verily, with all due, cause I respect you a lot, you really are being unrealistic.

Regular cops are pretty much all crazy morons too though.

this was a dumb arrest...but, I rarely go through $200 cash in a month.  I just use my credit cards so that I get 1% back.  We typically put $5-8k on our credit cards each month, and the $50-80 a month is a nice bump.

Actually you're not allowed to carry more then 9,999$ on your person. If you get caught your money will be confiscated and you will have to prove that every one of those dollars you obtained in a legitimate manner. I know someone who's uncle was interrogated for coming into a bank with 25k he saved on his own (an older man) and he had to prove he had saved that money from his paychecks.

Please provide a link to this law.  It doesn't exist.  A bank needs to report a cash deposit over $10,000, but it's certainly not illegal to carry over $10,000 in cash.

The federal civil asset forfeiture laws have been amended to prevent abuse.  Merely carrying cash means nothing.

Credit cards are so shabbily middle class.

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Go ahead and get pulled over by a police officer and let him find out you have that much cash on you and see what happens. Ever heard of asset forfeiture?

If you're going somewhere like that with more than $500, such as Somalia, you're also probably going to be murdered and robbed, so it all works out.  That is, unless, you're a local warlord.

I've heard of unscrupulous police officers misusing the civil asset forfeiture laws over much lesser amounts.  So what?  That a police officer misuses the civil asset forfeiture laws doesn't make it legally correct.  It's not a crime to carry any amount of cash within the U.S.  Period.

Here is the law:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_Transaction_Report

I had a problem with a cashier check above the $10K limit drawn on one bank clearing another bank.

That law doesn't make it illegal to carry more than $10,000 in cash.  It just puts a reporting requirement on banks and the likes to report when a customer deposits, withdraws, or in some cases, pays for something with more than $10,000 in cash.  That's a huge difference.

How much?  $4,700 or the amount in the roll I pictured?

Funnily enough my dad used to carry thousands of dollars around with him back in the day... still always has something near a grand though he can't actually see the bills any more.  But he came from better days.

But it also requires you to account for that case (I think it that particular statute).

There are actually some highly developed foreign countries (Japan, in particular) where credit card use is very, very low. Which is why I acknowledge that significant quantities of cash are sometimes reasonable when traveling abroad.

Agreed.  Indeed, it might seem "suspicious" to someone looking for suspicious things (in otherwords, you have to want it) but there are plenty of legitimate reasons to carry that much cash.

And actually, when I went to Europe, I carrier $2,000 cash on me, because I didn't have a debit card, and didn't know if I would be able to get to a bank (it was a per force guided tour).

Same with me (although I was only carrying around $700 or $800).

Point is - I don't care if it was money given to him to take somebody out - without probable cause, you can't detain somebody, and $4,700 isn't probable cause.

The key is to put the C Note on top and all the $1's on the inside, of course.

I don't care if it's trash class, I make money using credit cards, $50-80/month.  To me, that's smart class.