Talk Elections

I had the day off today. Out of boredom, driving around town. It's really breathtaking how rundown and abandoned sections of town are. Miles of boarded up houses and even whole apartment complexes left to rot. Grassy lots feet overgown. Little legitimate business in sight.
What productive actions can be taken to correct this? It's really disturbing that people live like that. It's even more disturbing that people don't even think about it.

I agree. I really enjoy driving around ghettos, too, as its instructive to see how the other half lives.

Though I recommend treating red lights as merely a suggestion. :)

I wouldn't say I enjoyed it, though I guess one could say that it was interesting in the same macabre way that it's hard not to gawk at a nasty accident. I really wanted to post some photos to give people a sense of what I'm talking about, but I'm not about to go around the slums snapping photos and I really couldn't find any online, which struck me as strange b/c usually I can find photos of anything (no matter how obscure) online.

You know what's funny? The part of Minneapolis that looks most like my hometown (I mean Bismarck, not the Reservation) IS the "ghetto". And the part that I live in most resembles where I went to college. Haha.

Well yeah, true, enjoyable in a macabre way is the best way to explain it. It's definitely sad to see such living conditions in a first world country.

Actually it is your problem Van.  While you may think, my life is good, why I should I care what happens in the ghetto, the truth is that what happens in our community to other people affects us in ways we often may not be able to anticipate.

I often hear from right-wingers that the government shouldn't interfere (and therefore tax them to pay for its programs) to solve problems such as poverty, but what they don't realize is that if the government doesn't interfere, those poor can become a problem to the rest.  Why do you think crime rates are so high in underprivileged communities?

Another example of this is healthcare.  Right-wingers don't want healthcare for all as long as they can afford their medical bills, but if people around you get sick and have no medical treatment, you will get sick too.  

Sometimes I think that the only solutions for those who believe that we shouldn't do anything to solve the problems our society has is to lock themselves in a castle, build a wall around it and not interact with anyone in order to avoid the consequences of their inaction.

Ghettos are fascinating to drive through.  I've driven through the ones in Texas (Houston, Dallas), but also most of the big ones in the East Coast (DC, Baltimore (where I lived for a while), Philly, Trenton, Newark).  Not NYC however.

However, ghettos are not anything new - they've been that way for the last 30-40 years.  Why the sudden fascination?

30-40 years? You can't be serious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_The_Other_Half_Lives

I was referring to the present-day inhabitants and condition of ghettos, not the fact that ghettos have existed for quite a while.  So your point is quite fair, even though that's not exactly what I was talking about.

What to do with ghettos?
Fire

Yes, what to do with people within those ghettos.

They usually start the fires don't they?

And I thought cities were spreading them throughout the town instead of piling them on top of each other.  Gives them a nice, steady level of crime throughout the city instead of focusing it on one small part.

Help them to quit ghettos by themselves.

Part of the reason is that criminals are often released from prison back into areas that are crime-ridden.  But, at the same time, what do you expect them to do?  Release criminals into affluent neighborhoods?

I don't think they release criminals to a location.  The criminals are released and they go home...."home" for criminals is almost always in poor areas.

Halfway houses?

Aye...forgot about them.  They are nearly always in or near the sh**t part of town.  Several reasons for that I'm sure....cheaper to buy, neighbors have less money to fight putting it there in the first place, closer to manual labor type jobs.

Right, but if you talk to any Sociologist (and I had to, as it was one of my minors), this leads to a greater amount of recidivism than if they were released into halfway houses that were constructed in wealthy neighborhoods.

My problem with this, and why I bolded part of the earlier quote, is I don't see a practical solution to this.  And doing what Sociologists want would escalate class warfare...literally.

Recidivism is always going to be high, there is a reason these people went to crime in the first place and most of the time those reasons only get bigger/stronger while they are in prison.

Sadly I don't see a practical solution either.  There are some things we can do though.  Change how we fight or stop the war on drugs.  Keep telling black dudes that getting a girl pregnant and then taking off is one of the worst things a person can do.  Change the public school system...get some kids into vocational training earlier (if they want it).

can't we turn them into shantytowns somehow?

I see you avoided Sociology.  Good man.

But, but we've been fighting the war on drugs for over forty years now.  Victory will come any day now.  Seriously, regulate weed the same way Nevada does.  I'm on the fence over harder drugs. 

The biggest problem I have public education is telling every kid that they have to go to college.  There are good jobs out there that don't require college degrees.



Go for it.  I do love the word "shanty".  I did enjoy Slumdog Millionaire.

What do you mean 'correct this'?  It is exactly as it is intended to be, memphis.  The ghettos are the necessary mirror image and economic basis for the posh neighborhoods. 

You appear to be unfamiliar with the society in which you live.

opebo, thank you for always being here to educate us on the various social classes in the US.  We should all be thankfull we have such an expert on our message board.  Always willing to drop into any thread about the poor to tell us they have no chance at all to move up in life, how 80% (or was it 90?) of us are in this group and the top 10-20% (of which opebo is part) knowingly keep their collective boot on the throat of the masses.  We're too brainwashed here to see it though, only opebo has managed to remove the rose colored (coloured) glasses and has seen America for what she actually is.

Thank you again sir.



(pimplyfaced teenager indeed) ;)

While it is true that college isn't for everyone, getting an education should be more about becoming a better and more informed person, not about finding a job.  And that's why I think education at all levels should be free.  Not really relevant to the discussion, but I just thought I'd mention it.  The problem of poverty is always more evident in societies where the big fish eats the little fish and no one gives a damn

I don't think anything could be done unless we address the problems that lead to a continuation of ghettos.

I think my question may have been misinterpreted. I wasn't so much asking what to do about poverty, though that is a tricky question too. I'm talking about neighborhoods more than people. I don't get the impression that a lot of people live in the areas I'm talking about, with so many properties apparantly abandoned. My county hasn't really grown since 2000, but there's been plenty of new development in desirable areas. The nasty parts of town have been hollowed out. It just seems really inefficient and undesirable.

that has actually been a big problem in many inner cities in the last few decades when everyone moved to the suburbs.  there are actually a lot of things that can be done to clean up the ugliest parts of town.  the change can be either a result of a governmental effort or a citizen's initiative.  downtown stamford, ct was a dump, until the university and several corporations arrived and made it a far more attractive area.  same with times square in nyc when we got rid of the pimps and the drugdealers.  in london tube stations were built in the ugliest parts of town in order to make it easier for young professionals that worked in the city to move there.  what's actually interesting is that in recent decades people have been moving back to the cities (from the suburbs), either because they want to be closer to work and traffic makes it impossible to get there on time from the suburbs or because life in the city is more exciting.  i can tell you for example that many areas here in queens or brooklyn changed for the better when manhattan become too expensive for young professionals and college students and they moved here.  those people are revitalizing cities, bringing new ideas and participating in community activities that aim at improving their lives.  there's a lot that can be done and there's a lot that should be done.  but if no one tries, nothing will happen. 

Then I'm going with my first answer.  Fire.

Maybe, but going to college doesn't automatically make one better or more informed.  Becoming informed is just as much a matter of personal responsibility, if not more so, as it is one of professorial diffusion. 


That will work.

100%

Actually, ghettos are quite nice, and unfortunately, slowly disappearing.  :(  It is a different and more relaxed culture, in many ways like the mythological small town existence that everyone claims is great.  (Okay, we had a great block party last weekend.)

In other words, stop trying to ruin our lives.

Not that block parties aren't awesome and stuff, but there are some ghettos with very high rates of unemployment, domestic violence, alcoholism, bad schools, crime, high school drop-out, etc.

But, hey, cookouts.  It's a wonder people aren't flocking to Detroit.

That's some ghetto you've got there, or not at all.

They should.  Houses were selling for a dollar a few months ago.  They could at least flip them when the housing market completely recovers.

LOL@ the idea that Detroit will recover. South and North Memphis are a lot lke this. There is exactly 0% chance that these areas will ever be desirable. Nobody is even considering gentrifying these hell holes.

That's the problem.  Unfortunately unless someone makes an effort to make these areas more attractive, nothing will change.

Now now now show some optimism :)

I guess you could say there is some gentrification on the periphery.  A few years ago we might have lumped Binghamption in with North Memphis - now its well on its way to improvement.  I could easily see Cooper/Young expanding southward into some streets that we now associate with South Memphis.

To me the word "ghetto" when used by white people is code for " where the Negros live"

"Low income" would have been better.

Cooper Young and Binghapmption are still rife with boarded up crack houses. Can't really see any development spilling over.

That's also code for white people who "don't want to offend anyone".

Low income white neighborhoods just don't give off the "abandon all hope, ye who enter here" vibe that black ghettos do. You don't see nearly as many abandoned properties or overgrown lots and there's not remotely as much violent crime. We also don't have many poor white neighborhoods in Memphis. Most Southern white poors live in the country, and I suspect this is true in the rest of the nation as well.

There are some simple steps that can be taken to improve these areas:

1. Urban Renewal. Not only do the property values go up and more educated (relatively) people come in and influence the culture, but they will also gain a bit of self esteem, which may make them try to improve their lives.

2. Promote public school choice and perhaps set up a carpooling or bus program so the kids could get to the schools.

3. Promote the importance of education. Self explanatory.

4. Enforce all laws, don't just fight gangs. This will make the area better to live in, as traffic laws are followed, and minor crimes become less common.