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November 23, 2017, 12:03:44 pm
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1  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Nude Joe Barton selfie surfaces online on: November 22, 2017, 05:26:17 pm
Another day... Another sodomy scandal...

Unless I missed that part of the story, there's no sodomy involved here...Huh
2  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Nude Joe Barton selfie surfaces online on: November 22, 2017, 03:59:10 pm
I can't wait to see how many of those who condemned Anthony Weiner, forgive this guy, Because Jesus or something.

Well, at least Barton wasn't PMing 15 year olds...?

In all seriousness, if the women were OK with receiving the pics, I have no problem with this story. That said, Barton's awful and I have no problem with the rest of Congress mocking these pics to his face etc. He deserves the embarrassment etc.
3  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: $1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread on: November 22, 2017, 10:18:15 am
Mondale is repeating his predictions before the Healthcare bill word for word. I take this as a very good sign.

I wish I could, but if Murkowski actually is a yes there's really no way it fails.

Oh, it'll probably pass the Senate. Doesn't mean that it is going to become law. The House and Senate versions are quite different and there's a pretty good chance this thing dies in conference because of the mandate and SALT.
4  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: $1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread on: November 22, 2017, 01:06:06 am
Mondale is repeating his predictions before the Healthcare bill word for word. I take this as a very good sign.
5  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: To everyone calling me a racist Russian troll on: November 21, 2017, 05:56:00 pm
Fourth of all just because Im a conservative Christian doesnt mean Im a troll or that I should be banned.

In the abortion thread, you said you were Jewish, and a cousin of Chuck Schumer.

Oh my I have said this a whole punch Im a messianic Jew its just a Christian whos Jewish and does Jewish holidays and yes my cousin is chuck schumer.

Im a tad confused at what your trying to say here.

He's part of Jews for Jesus.
6  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump's approval rating if he became a dictator? on: November 21, 2017, 02:44:52 pm
Leave it to Atlas to obsess over the minutiae of "OMG how would we know his real approval rating in a dictatorship because the polling companies would get the guillotine", rather than just assuming OP is asking what his actual approval rating would be among the people based on internal/individual opinions.

In societies with authoritarian regimes, it is possible for the people to develop something akin to Stockholm Syndrome and become comfortable/indifferent/apathetic about their state of oppression, especially when combined with nationalist fervor. The Chinese government is generally very popular in China except for among some beleaguered minority groups.

Yes, talking about a crackdown on polling companies is silly and irrelevant, but it is perfectly reasonable to discuss how a dictatorial regime could actually be more popular than a democratic regime, especially if the majority basically retains its day-to-day civil liberties.

If Trump were savvier, he could pull this off quite well. Everyone hates Congress and views them as useless windbags. If he pulled off a coup that dissolved Congress and replaced it with a hand-selected group of sycophants, he probably could get away with that in describing it as a much-needed update to the Constitutional system...if he were popular and credible to begin with.

I think the last American President who would've had a credible shot at making himself a dictator, had he been so inclined, would've been FDR in his first term.
7  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: John Conyers accused of sexual assault on: November 21, 2017, 02:27:53 am
The sad reality is that there are probably many more like Conyers in Congress, with some probably doing things worse than him. The good news is that the public is finally getting to learn about who these people are, and hopefully they get what they deserve.

The most egregious thing in this case is that the settlement came out of taxpayer money. This is outrageous and needs to come to an end.

And, yes, Conyers needs to go.
8  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump's approval rating if he became a dictator? on: November 20, 2017, 11:55:31 pm
Real dictators don't have <50% approval ratings...

For the purposes of this poll we'll assume he doesn't (or didn't yet) crack down on the polling companies.

Cracking down on the polling companies isn't the issue.

You get a call in the middle of the evening from a stranger saying "Do you approve of President-for-Life Trump, long may he reign, and his restoration of the Republic by seizing power away from the treacherous Democrats, corrupt bureaucrats, and elderly judges?"

Your response totally is "Yes, of course. Hail Trump!"
9  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Gillibrand: Bill Clinton should have resigned over Lewinsky affair on: November 20, 2017, 11:00:42 am
RIP Gillibrand

I disagree. It's not like either Clinton is especially popular within the party right now. Hillary is being blamed for losing the 2016 elections...and Bill quite possibly is at blame for losing Hillary the 2008 nomination.

This doesn't help Gillibrand, but it doesn't really hurt her....and let's face it, an incumbent Al Gore probably would have beaten Dubya.

That's not what I meant.

Yeah she's going on the list now.

Even if we assume Hillary had Vince Foster killed (which probably did happen), that's a huge step down from placing a hit on a sitting Senator (assuming that's what you are referring to).
?
It's a crazy Clinton conspiracy theory from the 90s.

Hillary had Vince Foster killed while Bill had Ron Brown killed.  True partners in crime.

https://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp


I'm really not sure how Ron Brown's plane crash was ever supposed to be a murder unless the pilot killed himself and intentionally flew into that mountain.
10  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Gillibrand: Bill Clinton should have resigned over Lewinsky affair on: November 19, 2017, 02:53:31 pm
Gillibrand is both right and savvy to do this. She is in a huge amount of danger from the idea that she's Hillary Jr, the successor to the (toxic) Clinton legacy. Preemptively denouncing the Clintons and throwing them overboard has only upsides.
11  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Will Donald Trump become one of the worst Presidents in U.S. history? on: November 18, 2017, 08:33:48 pm
Yes.

Future generations will laugh at us for electing him.

The way they laugh at Taft or Harding?  Whose doing any laughing except for the nerds and historians that far down down the road?




Taft is still regularly the butt of jokes. They're all "as fat as Taft" jokes, but still. Every middle school history teacher in America has said something about Taft being so fat he got stuck in a bathtub at some point.
12  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Can men be raped on: November 18, 2017, 04:03:49 pm
I think the OP was misguidedly trying to come up with something along the lines of "can men be the penetrating partner in penetrative sex against their consent" or something, because otherwise the question is 100% obvious and vapid.

If that's what the OP was asking, the answer is STILL yes. People have this idiotic idea that men can only have erections from sexual excitement, which is manifestly untrue.
13  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: who can unify the country? on: November 18, 2017, 04:00:03 pm
"Unify the country" isn't really even a desirable outside of as a talking point. It's an impossible condition because no president can or has done that in the absence of a foreign threat for people to rally against (which FDR had in the latter part of his administration, for example). FDR was deeply divisive in the first half of his administration, but he was divisive on a ~60/40 fault line in he was on the larger side of, which isn't nationally-unifying, but is a recipe for highly effective governing.

I'd prefer partisan-but-winning early FDR to non-partisan-and-ignoring-domestic-politics late FDR.
14  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Will Donald Trump become one of the worst Presidents in U.S. history? on: November 18, 2017, 01:37:48 pm
Maybe, though it's if he's comparable to anyone, it's probably Tyler, who spent his whole Administration despised by big chunks of the population and the government and just throwing temper tantrums and bombshells from the White House (right down to signing the annexation of Texas in his lame duck period just to throw the mess onto his successor).

I don't think he's worse than Tyler or Pierce or some of the other luminaries on our bottom-tier list, and so far he hasn't done anything nearly as disastrous as Bush 43 launching an idiotic and catastrophic invasion of Iraq, but give him time, he's only barely 1/5th through his term.
15  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Al Franken accused of sexual harassment on: November 16, 2017, 02:40:14 pm
Surely people here realize that it'd be capital B Bad for Franken to actually have to face an investigation and deal with whatever comes out, right? Franken is far better off just resigning than letting decades of dirty laundry be aired.
16  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Al Franken accused of sexual harassment on: November 16, 2017, 02:19:18 pm
I seriously think Franken should bail, partially because him staying will lead to an Ethics Committee investigation and Franken probably doesn't want to know what that investigation will turn up. See: the investigation against Bob Packwood back in the 90s that came back with a 10,000 page report about how he had molested dozens of Hill staffers. Packwood would've been much better off quitting before the investigation finished.
17  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Will Al Franken resign? on: November 16, 2017, 12:58:49 pm


Patty Murray

18  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Will Al Franken resign? on: November 16, 2017, 12:56:27 pm
Chuck Schumer (@SenSchumer)
Sexual harassment is never acceptable and must not be tolerated.

I hope and expect that the Ethics Committee will fully investigate this troubling incident, as they should with any credible allegation of sexual harassment.
19  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Will Al Franken resign? on: November 16, 2017, 12:48:03 pm
I have little faith he will judging by his comments and the fact only Gillibrand was willing to say something

Claire McCaskill (@clairecmc)
Re Al Franken: Im shocked and concerned. The behavior described is completely unacceptable. Comedy is no excuse for inappropriate conduct, and I believe there should be an ethics investigation.
20  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Al Franken accused of sexual harassment on: November 16, 2017, 12:22:59 pm
I think the only question is if he resigns or just doesn't run again in 2020. (I'd prefer he resigns to let the new Dem appointee get his/her sea legs and run with some incumbency)
21  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Will Al Franken resign? on: November 16, 2017, 11:40:03 am
Yes, because hes now threatening a pickup opportunity.

^^^

At worst, he just won't run for reelection in 2020. He's done past that point. He should resign now.
22  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Al Franken accused of sexual harassment on: November 16, 2017, 11:36:56 am
It's a shame, I really wanted him as the running mate on whatever Dem ticket ended up emerging. I'd been a fan of his for literally decades. I even listened to Air America in its early days. I'm very disappointed in him.

We're in a new era now, and things like this are unacceptable. Yes, people did far worse than him in the past and the present, but that's not the bar we should hold people to. Franken should go.
23  General Discussion / History / Re: Russian Revolution: 100 years on: November 16, 2017, 12:13:41 am
It's so frustrating in retrospect: you want to reach back in time, grab Kerensky etc by the lapels and shout "JUST END THE WAR BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!"

The Entente/Allies were forcing him to stay in the war IIRC.

Kerensky unfortunately was too idealistic for his own good, and his early popularity blinded him to deep discontent later. He could have concluded a separate peace (there was no way the Entente could have 'forced him' to continue, but he was too concerned with maintaining Russia's international prestige and had convinced himself that his personal popularity would make the soldiers willing to fight on.

It's kind of crazy, looking at how the Bolsheviks seized power, at how easy it was for them. From what I read, almost any group of 60 or so armed men could have seized control of the government at that time in November; the Bolsheviks were just the first to take the opportunity.

I think that Kerensky's decision to continue the war left only two possibilities for Russia: Bolshevik takeover or takeover of a reactionary dictatorship under Kornilov. Kerensky's government couldn't survive the war's continuation.
24  General Discussion / History / Re: What do you feel the most important election of US history is? on: November 16, 2017, 12:12:04 am
1800 is the obvious answer, but it's a really good answer.
25  General Discussion / History / Re: Would you classify Czar Nicholas II of Russia as a mass murderer? on: November 15, 2017, 05:21:22 pm
F**k. Enver Pasha, of course.
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