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4676  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2000 U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: Atlas Forum gets international starring role on: November 02, 2008, 06:34:02 am
Last night Channel 4 in the UK screened "Recount" (by Jay Roach) about the Florida 2000 mess. During the credits, they show a scene with Al Gore's former chief of staff looking at some numbers. On his computer in the background is a screen showing two lists of states with the colours as won in 1996 and three holes next to them. In other words, the past predictions map from this very forum. If members would like I could take a picture of the scene and create the map that on the screen?

Yes! That's cool! A picture would be great!
4677  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Do you have a favorite hymn? on: November 02, 2008, 12:46:49 am
I really loved this thread. I'm bumping it. After I play computer for a few hours, I'm going to post the words to another of my favourite songs, which we sang in church this morning. It's not a hymn, but it has the strong theology and "verse, verse, verse, verse" (no verse, verse, chorus, verse, bridge, coda, back to the verse, repeat the third line six times... style that many choruses today have...), so it's kind of a modern hymn...
4678  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Preceding Poster: FF or HP? on: November 02, 2008, 12:42:05 am
Strongly FF.
4679  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: Diplomacy Game Thread on: November 02, 2008, 12:36:37 am
Spring 1907:

A Burgundy - Ruhr
F Gulf of Lyon - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Fails*)
F Marseilles - Gulf of Lyon (*Fails*)
A Paris - Burgundy
F Tunis - Ionian Sea (*Bounce*)
A Tyrolia Hold
A Venice Hold
A Warsaw - Ukraine

F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea (*Bounce*)
A Albania - Trieste
A Budapest Supports A Albania - Trieste
A Finland Supports A St Petersburg
F Gulf of Bothnia Supports F Livonia - Baltic Sea (*Cut*)
F Livonia - Baltic Sea (*Fails*)
A Moscow - Warsaw
A Rumania - Galicia
A Silesia Supports A Moscow - Warsaw
A St Petersburg Supports A Finland
A Vienna - Tyrolia (*Fails*)

F Naples Supports A Rome Hold
A Rome Supports F Naples Hold

F Berlin Hold
A Munich Supports F Berlin

No moves

F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
F Tuscany Supports F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea

F Baltic Sea Supports F Sweden - Gulf of Bothnia (*Cut*)
F Barents Sea Supports A Norway
F Denmark Supports F Kiel
A Edinburgh - Sweden (*Fails*)
F Kiel Holds
F North Sea Convoys A Edinburgh - Sweden (*Fails*)
A Norway Supports A Edinburgh - Sweden (*Fails*)
F Skagerrak Convoys A Edinburgh - Sweden
F Sweden - Gulf of Bothnia (*Fails*)

Therefore, the map appears thus:

There are no retreat orders required. The map appears thus:

4680  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Members of my extended family murdered on: October 31, 2008, 12:08:01 am
Sorry to hear that, mate.
4681  Forum Community / Forum Community / Happy Birthday Xahar! on: October 30, 2008, 11:44:34 pm
Happy birthday mate, many happy returns!
4682  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: My political future. on: October 30, 2008, 09:43:12 pm
Sounds like the area in which I'm campaigning (no election, but I'm sure you get what I mean) these days (for our conservative party).

By which I mean, stick with it and good luck.
4683  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: Diplomacy Game Thread on: October 30, 2008, 09:16:30 pm
Will check out your map in just a moment, but will address the whole rules enquiry first.

Turning now to page 5 in our rulebooks (second paragraph, directly below first diagram), we see:

Quote from: The Rules, Allan B Calhamer
When a Fleet is in a coastal province, its warships are considered to be at any point along the coast of that province. A Fleet in a coastal province can be ordered to move to an adjacent coastal province only if it is adjacent along the coastline (as if the Fleet was moving down the coast). For example, in Diagram 3 a Fleet in Rome can be ordered to move from Rome to Tuscany or to Naples (or to the Tyrrhenian Sea). But a Fleet in Rome cannot be ordered to move to Venice or Apulia because, although those provinces are adjacent along an inland boundary, they are not adjacent along the coastline.

Note that the italics are in the rulebook.

There's actually an article written by the creator of Diplomacy, Allan B Calhamer, entitled "The Coast of Moscow" (a humourous, rather than serious piece) which plays upon this exact concept. It is located here:

4684  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Canada General Discussion on: October 30, 2008, 08:25:18 pm
Most women ever in cabinet, first ever inuit cabinet minister - the Tories are the party of inclusion.

Laughing @ Gary Lunn, who by all accounts is seriously pissed off at his demotion.
4685  Election Archive / 2008 Elections / Re: A map I'd like to see... on: October 30, 2008, 08:19:42 pm
I was thinking of having Montana & North Dakota flip to Obama instead for the win, but this would be hilarious also. Of course it would probably kill some Democrats from hypertension early in the evening, but if the electoral college ends up close, well, no better way for it to happen than to have the loser screwed by his home state Tongue

Kinda like Gore in 2000.
4686  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Voting Booth / Re: Northeast Voting Booth on: October 30, 2008, 07:58:10 pm
For Governor-

[  ] Governor Lief (SDP-VT?)
[X] RowanBrandon (RPP-NJ)
[  ] Write in:__________

For Lt. Governor-

[X] Lt. Governor Rockefeller Republican (Politburo-ME)
[  ] Write in:___________
4687  Election Archive / 2008 Elections / Re: Effigy of Hanged Sarah Palin is allegedly Halloween fun on: October 30, 2008, 01:25:21 am

Politico had it earlier. These things happen in election years; people are morons. The racial overtones of the Obama effigy are somewhat more menacing than the message of the Palin and McCain effigies, but both are just done by fools.

The type of thing done on both sides by people without the intellect to debate ideas or entertain the concept that perhaps the person they disagree with has a right to have their own thoughts.
4688  Election Archive / 2008 Elections / Re: Effigy of Hanged Sarah Palin is allegedly Halloween fun on: October 30, 2008, 01:02:01 am

Don't know if this is a reputable website or not.
4689  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: And with this on: October 28, 2008, 09:44:29 am
Congratulations! You have more experience on here than Obama has at executive government.
4690  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Agree or Disagree: Day 20: Family Guy > The Simpsons on: October 28, 2008, 09:43:03 am
I enjoy both, and both have a very similar sense of sarcastic, cynical humour. That said, I very rarely watch tv and can't remember the last time I saw either of them. My brother has Family Guy on DVD and I really enjoy watching them. They're virtually one and the same - same sorts of plotlines due to a same sense of humour... yeah, if they stand too close together, it's hard to tell them apart. I voted Simpsons because it came first and because it has had such a great long run and because it was a pretty original idea when it first came out.
4691  Election Archive / 2008 Elections / Re: at this point, virginia is... on: October 28, 2008, 09:34:07 am
I don't think much has changed in the past two years politically for Virginia, therefore I think that where Virginia stands presently is the net result of 2004 plus demographic change less the Bradley Affect. I believe this makes it an ever so slight McCain lean, but very close.
4692  Election Archive / 2008 Elections / Re: To Naso and others - a question. on: October 28, 2008, 09:30:12 am
I like the electoral college and I would agree that the winner of the electoral college is the president.

Absolutely agree. If Obama gets 270 and loses by 3 points, you will not hear a peep out of me.

Ever since I played a board game called Landslide in 1982-ish as a young boy, I have loved the EC system.

Exactly. It goes both ways. The issue is not one of whether the race was "stolen" or whatever. The election is won according to the rules that have been written, which is the EC system. It's the same as a game of football. Usually the winning team will have had the ball the longest, or made the most ground in attack and the most tackles in defence, but not always. If that isn't the case, if a team lost even after having the best stats, it's not that the game was stolen from them - because the rules of the game are fair and aren't changed to hinder one team or help the other. Likewise, the party that usually wins the election the ECVs also won the PV, but not always.

An electoral system needs to be fair. It's possible for the Democrats to win in a 2000-style election, just as it's possible for the Republicans to win in that scenario. If Gore had won in 2000 but lost the PV, I wonder how many of the Democrats would have suggested that the election had been stolen...

For the record - it is also possible in Australia to form government with a majority of seats but with a minority of the vote. This has happened twice in elections I've been interested in during the past decade - 1998 and 2004. In the 1998 federal election, the Liberals retained Government, despite receiving less than half of the 2PP vote. In the 2004 Brisbane City Council election, the Liberals won the mayoralty but had a minority in the council despite the candidates for ward councillors achieving almost exactly the same vote as the mayoralty (except that the mayor was elected by PV). The Liberals won the PV but lost the council itself. You just live with it. The rules are set before the election and sometimes they benefit one side and sometimes they benefit the other. You just get on with it and don't gripe about the system just because it failed to deliver your party a win.
4693  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Re: could we (finally) get a credible third party challenge? on: October 28, 2008, 09:04:17 am
A third party may be able to gain traction if:

1. It is not based off of the presonality of one person (reform)

2. The party does not tare itself apart over petty diffrences (reform, libertarians)

3. The next President and Congress really f-up.

4. Like Detroit said the party focuses more on local and congresional elections, so the party can actualy build a foundation for itself.

All of these, but especially the last. If the party focuses on winning offices in just one state, even, it might be able to win a small mayoralty or two and then use this to target the state house. If it wins a few seats in the state house, it could then possibly hold the balance of power there. That would allow it to improve its position in subsequent elections, but as has been stated, it needs to focus on winning local and state elections to establish a base before turning national (and targeting congressional districts within its base) which would then give it a national profile (if it achieves a similar result of holding the balance of power in the Congress at some point down the track). Might even be better off not running a presidential candidate for a while, to encourage voters to support it while still supporting their own choice for President.
4694  General Discussion / History / Re: Presidential Trivia on: October 28, 2008, 08:53:03 am
JJ, I think it's about time you just give the answer away.

I would have accepted:

“His Highness, the President of the United States, and Protector of Their Liberties.”

"His Highness, the President of the United States and Protector of the Rights of the Same"

"His Elective Majesty"

It was a good question, JJ, but I didn't want to cheat and go through Wikipedia...

4695  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Rebuilding the Union on: October 28, 2008, 08:49:01 am
It is rare to find a timeline that is both an original concept and well written. I am enjoying this, please keep up the good work.
4696  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: Diplomacy Game Thread on: October 27, 2008, 10:13:14 pm
The builds will be:

Build A Paris, F Marseilles

Disband A Bulgaria

No Change

Build F Berlin

No Change

Disband A Trieste

Build A Edinburgh

So at the start of Spring 1907, the map appears thus:

ilikeverin pointed out to me that I made an initial error in posting this earlier - I had him building an army in Berlin, whereas he actually requested a fleet (now corrected). I'm sorry for any confusion I may have caused there.
4697  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: What do I need to know about Australia? on: October 27, 2008, 09:21:58 am
Rugby Union is my favourite code, although I don't mind the rugby league if it looks like it's going to be a good game.
4698  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Agree or Disagree: Day 19: The government should increase funding to NASA on: October 27, 2008, 09:18:49 am
I am always torn over this.  But here's my thing:  If there were a budget surplus, no war, poverty on the decline and a strong economy, I'd say fine...increase funding.  Good can come from the space program.

Unfortunately, as good as some things can be, we can't always afford them.  I'd love to have an indoor swimming pool adjacent to my house.  It wouldn't just be a luxury...it would help keep me healthy, help my wife and I with our aching joints and so on...

But we can't afford it.  Not for awhile.  Not until we pay down our debt and take care of other priorities.  That's how I feel about space exploration and so on...

Jings I hate it when I say something, and then you disagree with me and I read why you disagree with me and realise I've said something dumb. Wink Probably why I always try to watch for threads where you've posted recently - you always challenge my thinking and I guess I like that.
4699  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Your worst predictions this year on: October 27, 2008, 09:06:26 am
My worst prediction will likely be that McCain would win, and while not in a landslide, but a moderate to substantial margin.  I expected a massive 527 dump by Republicans (not McCain himself) filling with references to black power, whitey, Louis Farrakhan and Obama bin Laden.

I was woefully wrong and couldn't be happier about it.

My other lousy prediction was that Huckabee would be the GOP nominee. But then, it's hard to keep track of my bad predictions as they go by.

Yeah - I thought Huckabee was going all the way. I also thought Obama would be easier to beat than Clinton (and if I was right about that... well... what would the map look like today???).
4700  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Happy Birthday, Boss Tweed. on: October 27, 2008, 09:04:28 am
Happy Birthday Mate.
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