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1  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: AK-GOV: Will Begich run? on: Today at 02:17:02 am
Either he runs for Senate in 2020, an open Governors seat in 2022 or against Murkowski in 2022 (that third option is theoretically possible...he's got to be seeing Murkowski consistently struggling to secure her right flank and thinking he can beat her).

Frankly, I think Sullivan is going to be safe in 2020. Unless some kind of scandal emerges or something.




2  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: North Carolina gerrymandering bill pits black judges against other incumbents on: Today at 12:37:06 am
If the Voting Rights Act were still around, this would be a textbook violation.

Those other incumbents after all, are not black, and the districts are majority white.

The VRA is still around, very much so. What you are referring to is the court striking down one of its sections.
3  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Port Arthur, Texas requires those seeking Hurricane relief to be Pro-Israel on: Today at 12:32:51 am
Well this will make a hell of a court case.
4  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Labor National Convention – Fall 2017 on: Today at 12:25:30 am
Okay, since Griff and Scott are the only candidates who have accepted nominations, I'm going to go ahead and declare them officially elected.

I'll quit this job with the same words I uttered when I first took it: "This was probably a bad idea."

Quote from: End of the Line by The Traveling Wilburys
...
You can sit around and wait for the phone to ring
waiting for someone to tell you everything
Sit around and wonder what tomorrow will bring
...
Don't have to be ashamed of the car I drive
I'm just glad to be here, happy to be alive
And it don't matter if your by my side
I'm satisfied! Smiley
...
Well its alright, the best you can do is forgive
Well its alright, riding around in the breeze
well its alright, if you live the life you please
well its alright, even if the sun don't shine
...
5  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Are the Democrats failing or doing well as an opposition? on: Today at 12:01:59 am
I am reminded of a time magazine article from 2006 that used arrows to rate the situation for two Parties. The Republican arrow was pointing downward and the Democratic arrow was pointed sideways.


Opposition parties never have a coherent message or anything like that in the mid terms, or a clear leader. That is not the point and no one cares. What matters is 1) You are not the party in power, 2) Does the candidate fit well with the district and 3) What five, six, ten things are you going to do those first 100 days, if you get the majority.

This is how Pelosi got to be Speaker, on the backs of 50 Pro-life Democrats (20 of whom were new, 30 were already there), many of whom even signed off on Heath Shuler's SAVE Act which was an enforcement-only immigration bill. Of course Dems are going for a more suburban swing district strategy as opposed to a rural blue dog one.

But they were united in opposition to Bush's handling of Iraq (ranging from competence in the rebuilding to outright opposition to the war), raising the minimum wage, draining the swamp of the 109th Congresses corruption and fixing the "Donut hole" in Medicare Part D.

Ironically, there was a lot of commentary about the Republicans not being able to "cash in on the economy" at all during the midterms. Of course in hindsight that is obvious why, but at the time GDP growth was strong, unemployment was 4.6% and wages were finally starting to rise. Housing sales were starting to collapse on backs of 4% interest rates, but there was no comprehension of its impact on the larger economy and the credit crunch didn't start until the following summer. But a lot of the seats lost were in places where the economy was to seen to have "never recovered" including in OH and the rust belt, upstate NY and other places, where economic conditions were bad. Of course there were losses elsewhere where this wasn't a factor, it is hard to completely rule it out as playing some role in some races.

6  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: How many senators served until they were at least 90? on: October 20, 2017, 11:44:05 pm
Too many. 80 should be mandatory retirement age

The Senate is suppose to be full of old people.

The old people that are suppose to kick the popular majority in the house in the nuts when they go too far. Of course the house doesn't work like that because of gerrymandering and too few districts, and since many Senators are sourced from the House, well you can guess the impact on the Senate.

7  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: October Elections Tracker (All elections) on: October 20, 2017, 08:12:26 pm
Only on Atlas would the major center-left party be leading in Alaska and trailing in California. Tongue

Interestingly, California has voted Federalist in every presidential election since the reset, but has voted Labor in the December 2016, February 2017 and August 2017 house elections.

I doubt it holds up this time seeing the registration numbers in CA now.
8  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Republicans: we are now against spending cuts, they're unpopular and won't work on: October 20, 2017, 07:06:00 pm
Therefore we need huge tax breaks for the wealthy, because that will generate so much growth that we have more revenue in the end and the wealth will somehow trickle down.

Honestly, the fact that Reagan was somehow able to sell this nonsense with a straight face and have half the country at the time believe him goes to show you how stupid people can be.


Tax Revenue went up from 517 billion in 1980 to 1.03 trillion in 1990. So Tax Revenues almost doubled in the 1980s, so no it was not the tax cuts that caused the deficits it was the increases in spending.

The fiscally responsible party probably shouldn't have blown up the budget then.

But the fiscally responsible party didn't control the House. Reagan once joked that Tip O'Neal was like Pac man, because he was a round thing that swallows up money.

The balance of power in the House was held by a bunch of pork barreling good ole' boy Southern Democrats. So the only way to get anything done in Congress was to basically pay for it with increased spending.

We need only look at 2001-2007 to see that it would've made zero difference

You really going to make me defend the Bush-Delay years. Screw that.

My point was and still stands, "The fiscally conservative party" didn't control congress and frankly that is true regardless of who is actually in charge. There is an old saying in DC, that there are three parties "The Republicans, the Democrats and the Appropriators".  Mike Pence is a Republican, Paul Ryan is a Republican. Hal Rodgers is an Appropriator, Thad Cochran is an Appropriator. Robert Byrd was an appropriator. Ted Stevens was an appropriator. Dan Inouye was an appropriator. The appropriators are always high in seniority and always dominate the Appropriations Committees in both the House and Senate that actually spend the money. I found it funny how people like Ryan, Pence and the RSC members who often went after this were on the Budget Committee and that that says about the values. "Yes we value your ideals and principles so we are going to let you write budget, but the old spend thrifts will actually spend the money and do so how we want". And you wonder why we had a Tea Party!

After the 2006 elections there was a scene where Dan Inouye and Ted Stevens, locked arms and in a measure of the worst sort of bipartisanship (which disturbingly people look back to fondly) and said "we will continue to pass out the pork business as usual". There was a scene in the house of Representatives where one of the fiscal conservatives from NJ, who always gets fleeced in terms of return on tax receipts (something like 50 cents on the dollar) was challenging an appropriation in Alaska (which gets like 2 dollars in spending for $1 in taxes and it gets worse when you account for the military etc), and Don Young came to the floor and said, "How dare you go after that, its 'MY MONEY', I don't go after your money". And you wonder why we had a Tea Party!

The problem with the Tea party was that it replaced bipartisan corruption and irresponsibility, with ideological zeal and resulting irresponsibility, instead of common sense and responsibility. That is why the tea party got hijacked by fringe nuts and establishment crooks. And that is why we ended up with the Trump movement and President Trump.
9  General Politics / Economics / Re: Republicans/Independents: What should the GOP economics be? on: October 20, 2017, 06:44:48 pm
Tax Policy:


- Cut the top Business tax rate to 25%(this rate applies to any business which have 3 or more employees outside the owners family).

Make these as the rates:

0%: $0-$100,000
10%: $100,000- $500,000
15%: $500,000-$ 2,500,000
20%: $2,500,000-$ 5,000,000
22.5%: $5,000,000- $10,000,000
25%: $10,000,000- $20,000,000

Over 20,000,000 (a flat rate of 22.5%)

- Have the Income rates be(for Joint ):

0% : $0 -$30,000
15% : $30,000-$75,000
20% : $75,000 - $150,000
25% : $150,000 - $ 300,000
30% : $ 300,000- $600,000
35%:  $ 600,000- $1,000,000
39.6%: More than a million


-Keep the itemized deductions


How to pay for tax cut :
- Remove Carried Interest Loophole
- Put a 25% wealth tax on off shore tax havens in the first year you collect taxes from those havens
- Make Companies who outsource jobs pay a higher tax then those who dont

I think there are two many brackets.

Budget Policy:


- Cut Military Spending by 15% over the next 10 years

- end  all Pork Barell Spending

- Give the President a Line Item Review Power(Which means after the president uses this new line item power the revised bill goes back to congress for an up and down vote , and if the revised bill fails the original bill goes back to the President where he must sign it or veto it fully)

I support a line item veto, but Congressional earmarks have been banned since 2010. As for the military spending, I think across the board cuts are a mistake but there are reforms that should occur starting first with an audit of the pentagon, aggressively pushing for procurement reform and then using the savings to ensure the troops have the equipment that they need.




How to reduce healthcare costs: Allow Prescription Drugs to be imported from Canada , and use that to lower drug prices in the US. Also open up state lines to lower cost of insurance.

Healthcare costs source from more than just drug costs though. You need a reform of the delivery system. All this debate and focus is on the "coverage and access". Beyond that we have to address payment schemes, delivery, integration of technology and other ways to improve outcomes and reduce costs.


Social Security:
Raise retirement age to 68, raise the cap for the payroll tax , and lower benefit to rich retirees .
Infrastructure:

- Invest between 500 billion - 1 trillion in Infrastructure over next 10 years (Use tax money you got from the offshore havens to pay for this , and some of the cuts in military spending)

I would support these measures, but I would advise that the Highway Trust fund, the grid and such need ongoing money sources for maintenance and modernization. The Gas tax should be raised and pegged to the cost of Gasoline so that if it does spike it goes down to ease the burden but gasoline is cheap right now. Longer term they need to look at alternative sources for once most of the vehicles will be electric. I think it is very fiscally conservative to say that if you use something, you should help pay for its upkeep and we need to look at this from a sustainability perspective. We could spend $1 Trillion in new projects and catching up, but fall behind again if their isn't sufficient on-going revenues.

Education Cost Reform:

- Limit the amount of student loans to cover the cost of an instate college(So around 20k-25k a year per student).

- Give companies tax breaks who pay for part or all of the cost of college for a student.

The way that college education has been handled is basically to throw gasoline on the fire of tuition inflation, which spills over into health care costs because doctors need to pay off their college loans. I think there should be caps, I think we should encourage responsibility in education and encourage people to pursue fields that will produce incomes.


Reduce the costs of Welfare:


- Raise Min Wage to 10.50 (Inflation adjusted)

- Hire people who are on welfare to work on an infrastructure project(this should reduce unemployment rate)

Raising the minimum wage does help reduce the deficit and encourages people to work, but it also risks further automation and that is something that has to be concerned about. It has to be balanced since it means at some point diminishing returns as jobs lost from small businesses outweigh the increase in incomes. So at some point you have to switch over and rely on the EITC to accomplish the same effect and rely less on the minimum wage. I would be fine with $9.15 or $9.50. And that is still substantial increase from current rates, a 30% increase in gross income for the lowest paid workers. Between the two, you could see a boost of disposable incomes among that group increasing 40% to 45% depending on how it is structured and that impact would be very positive on the economic growth rate.

As for the infrastructure, there are some opportunities, but construction is a skilled workforce now. It is not like in the 1930's when you just hand someone a shovel and a hammer. I saw a House Hearing on this a week ago, that talked about how the average age for a skilled construction worker (I would assume for roads), is 53 and rising fast and that touches back to the education issue as well.

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said recently, is that one of the big hindrances facing the economy is the lack of skilled workers and when we say that we often think "More college, More College" but one of the two skills he listed were computers, the other was welding, a trade skill. There has to be a balanced education policy and our policy the last few years has basically been skewed towards trying to make everyone a Stem, Lawyer or a Doctor, and there is more to it then that.

We start investing in infrastructure over a 10 year period and a provide a long term funding source for the highway fund suddenly the infrastructure issue is going to be moving from one of funding to one of finding the skilled workers and those wages will be through the roof because of shortages.

10  General Politics / Economics / Re: Republicans/Independents: What should the GOP economics be? on: October 20, 2017, 05:02:23 pm
Wow. Lechasseur, NCY, and RINO Tom just agreed on something. What’s next? Are RFayette and ER about to agree with you guys?

RinoTom and I have years plus cooperation in working to beat back false narratives regarding the historical evolution of the Republican Party, including beating down this "Magical 1964 flip theory" that out does any Olympic level gymnast. Where we have differed more recently is that I take those trends and lessons and apply them to the current demographics and use that to base my analysis of thy the Party is acting as it is and what the future holds.

RinoTom sees the party through the lense of himself and himself as a Republican, and therefore if the Party shifts, he is naturally concerned of whether or not he will still have a place in the Party.

On thing I have seen from being in Atlasia so long, and witnessing it from the other end, the transformation of people which often happens with teenage Libertarians who become 20 year old liberals on this forum. In the Federalist Party, we often can get liberals who are comfortable in our party's more moderate wing, but Libertarians who were in the party as such and saw it as such, never can reassess it from another perspective. They see it as an extension of their past identity an identity they want to abandon completely and shifting from one caucus to the other within the same umbrella, just isn't in the cards.

Politics is a function of demographics, tribalism and identity. It was when Catholics voted 75% Democratic, Protestant New Englanders voted 75% Republican, Southern Protestants voted 80% Dem and African-Americans were 90% Republican where they could vote. The demographic alignments shift and the party's evolve slowly over time to match their demographics and the political reality that takes them from Base to Majority.

Republicans were Protectionists both because it was legacy benefit (kind of like Tax cuts today), "it benefited us financially 30 years ago it must always be true and beneficial", and because of political reality. How else do you get working class people to vote for you over the "democratic" Party, you protect their jobs. And such was necessary because the only way to win was to hold PA, MA, OH, ILL, MI and win IN and NY, since the Solid South was Solid Dem.

Right now tax cuts are new tariffs for the GOP. They are unified around them, it is perceived to benefit the donor base and it allows them to bring in college educated whites who most likely would not vote for Republicans were it not for the tax issue. It enables them to hold TX and AZ and win FL and NC.
11  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Republicans: we are now against spending cuts, they're unpopular and won't work on: October 20, 2017, 03:54:32 pm
Therefore we need huge tax breaks for the wealthy, because that will generate so much growth that we have more revenue in the end and the wealth will somehow trickle down.

Honestly, the fact that Reagan was somehow able to sell this nonsense with a straight face and have half the country at the time believe him goes to show you how stupid people can be.


Tax Revenue went up from 517 billion in 1980 to 1.03 trillion in 1990. So Tax Revenues almost doubled in the 1980s, so no it was not the tax cuts that caused the deficits it was the increases in spending.

The fiscally responsible party probably shouldn't have blown up the budget then.

But the fiscally responsible party didn't control the House. Reagan once joked that Tip O'Neal was like Pac man, because he was a round thing that swallows up money.

The balance of power in the House was held by a bunch of pork barreling good ole' boy Southern Democrats. So the only way to get anything done in Congress was to basically pay for it with increased spending.
12  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: Why is the GOP so good at ultra narrow wins? on: October 20, 2017, 11:39:54 am
College educated voters have been trending Democratic for years.
13  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Andrew Jackson vs Abraham Lincoln on: October 20, 2017, 03:35:07 am
Best President Ever: Lincoln

Worst President Ever: Jackson

Buchanan was the worst President ever.
14  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: PA-10: Rep. Marino nominated to be Drug Policy Chief on: October 20, 2017, 03:24:04 am
Back in 2010 Marino was not expected to win and many saw him as a weak and corrupt candidate. Some even figured his district would be made safely democratic for Carney (2007-2011), with Scranton being returned to the district to protect Barletta who was expected to win against Kanjorski.

However, the wave swept Marino in.

For the record, I was born in this district and lived here for most of the 1990's into the early 2000's.



So, do you like Marino, and more importantly, do you think he would have made a good drug czar?

Oh heaven's no. I think he would be horrendous as drug czar.
15  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: $1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread on: October 20, 2017, 02:15:51 am
1.5 million over the next 10 years is not that big of a cut and can easily be made up.


-Taxing overseas havens ,including a one time wealth tax on those havens

- Cutting 70 billion dollars in military spending

McCain is raising bloody murder about the budget resolution not including increases in defense spending.

The problem is that the Republican majorities are too small. Republicans are paying for the mistakes made in 2012 in IN, MO, ND and MT right now. With 56 Senators they would have far more flexibility and could tell the grand standers to take a hike.

Did they really have a better candidate to face Tester in 2012?

"Mistakes" is a broad term.  Lugar should have retired and Becky Skillman would have won that primary and the General election by 18%.  Berg and Rehberg should have run better candidates and anybody but Akin should have been the nominee in MO.

Skillman was considering running for IN Governor in 2012 but opted out due to her medical condition. Given that I don't think she would have ran for Senate.

There were other potential candidates as well that would have come forward with an open seat.
16  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: $1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread on: October 20, 2017, 01:45:26 am
1.5 million over the next 10 years is not that big of a cut and can easily be made up.


-Taxing overseas havens ,including a one time wealth tax on those havens

- Cutting 70 billion dollars in military spending

McCain is raising bloody murder about the budget resolution not including increases in defense spending.

The problem is that the Republican majorities are too small. Republicans are paying for the mistakes made in 2012 in IN, MO, ND and MT right now. With 56 Senators they would have far more flexibility and could tell the grand standers to take a hike.

Did they really have a better candidate to face Tester in 2012?

"Mistakes" is a broad term.  Lugar should have retired and Becky Skillman would have won that primary and the General election by 18%.  Berg and Rehberg should have run better candidates and anybody but Akin should have been the nominee in MO.
17  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Republicans, has Trump been a good conservative president? on: October 20, 2017, 01:37:39 am
Doing nothing is still better than a third term of Obama.

After Trump, many of us will want the first term of the political equivalent of an Obama clone.

I am trying to understand how conservatives can support someone who does and says what he does. Maybe the more thoughtful ones who recognize the need (as did Edmund Burke) to ensure that people have something worth conserving so that there be no reprise of the French Revolution of 1789 -- or worse, the Paris Commune of 1871, the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917, the Nazi Revolution of 1933, or other overthrows of capitalism as in China in 1949 and Cuba in 1959.

Religious conservatives? Obama is the man of faith, his actions consistent with Christianity tempered by the rule of law. He does not wear his religion on his sleeve. Donald Trump is as godless as a Stalinist. Obama has apparently a very conventional family life. Could he get away with anything else? Donald Trump is a serial philanderer, twice divorced and twice remarried. It is true that men and women make wrong choices in selecting a mate and must get divorces if one or the other is to have any dignity. There can be cultural clashes, but  Obama dealt with that well. (Obama's father was an African and his mother was a white American; his wife had no connections to Africa except her genes, as is true of most slave-descended American blacks).

Let me address another aspect of conservatism: conservatives are anti-fascists. Conservatives as a rule recognize Mussolini, Hitler, and most Ku Kluxists as the thugs that they are. Shake hands politically with them or people who believe what those creeps like them believe, and you may be lucky to lose only a hand. Fascism is the antithesis of every noble tendency in American life from the Founding Fathers of the American political experiment to Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.  The pogrom, the torture chamber, and the site of mass killings are all un-American. Religious bigotry does more harm than good. In the town in which I live there is a sizable Muslim community. Would I prefer that this community build a mosque or that someone establish a whorehouse or even a strip club? You guessed it!

There is no moral equivalency between the fascistic Alt Right and the vast majority of people. People who believe that slavery or the Holocaust were good things (or in the latter case did not happen and Jews are exploiting a non-existent injustice for... I need not go into that absurdity).  Most conservatives are good people who have no use for the evil-doers in history.

I don't often agree with you but I think this is an excellent post. Conservatism is supposed to be about keeping a steady ship, resisting momentary whims of the masses, protecting individual rights, and governing resposnsibly. While not everything Trump has done is bad, he (and much of the current GOP) don't represent what conservatism should be in a society.

Amen.  This Jacksonian version of "conservatism" that cultural reactionaries are latching onto is, well, not conservative.

Neither is economic libertarianism.  Amazing how one produced another. Tongue
18  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Republicans: we are now against spending cuts, they're unpopular and won't work on: October 20, 2017, 01:22:29 am
So where are all the "I vote Republican because I'm a sensible American concerned about fiscal conservatism, balanced budgets, and the deficit SmileySmileySmiley" people now?

Still here, about 90% Republican learners, too.  The fact is, most people of tons of ideologies love their government entitlements.

cutting non-defense discretionary programs get you no where though and frankly Republicans like to believe there is this massive amount of waste and duplication that if they just magically erase then they will get spending under control.

If you really want to get spending under control you have to do 3 very basic things.

1. Across the gov't procurement reform, from letting Medicare negotiate for lower drug prices to competitive bidding on contracts in the Pentagon. Of course that pinches Republican donors in the Pharma and defense contractor industries.

2. Entitlement Reform - Republicans need to come to reality that that true driver of Medicare costs is the denial of care earlier in life, and the aging population. If you want to get Medicare under control, the first thing you need to do is ensure access to preventative care throughout the life span. Republicans too often love to cut now, in exchange for double the amount in higher spending later through Medicare. And yes I support block granting Medicaid and Obamacare, but at much higher funding levels then Graham-Cassidy. We have had back door Universal Healthcare via the emergency room for decades and it is time Republicans acknowledge it, bring it to the front door and quit trying to use poverty as a substitute for gov't death panels to bring down costs. Instead they should try to get as many insured as possible with market/state based insurers, paid for with block grants to the states or a sliding scale subsidy, and then work on reforming delivery and other reforms that will bring costs under control without killing people.

3. Stop using the tax code to hide spending behind of shield of "Oh I am not spending money, I am just returning your money too you". This attitude of take two tax credits and call me in the morning has riddled the code with ridiculous complexity, lowered revenues, and added a hidden tax to the tune of $500 billion dollars in tax code compliance costs, which acts as a regressive tax on small business, making it harder for them to compete with larger firms. Republicans should simplify the tax code, remove all the special loopholes and bring down the rates. Then they should apply fees and/or taxes to hedgefunds and financial transactions by big firms to fund/incentivize loans to small business by local and community banks and bring down the deficit/debt.

Republicans talk about all this but often times pull a bait and switch, like on financial regulations, where Republicans should work to restore market competition, not foster a regulatory environment that consolidates more banks into larger too big to fail firms that will leave tax payers on the hook with another bailout down the road.

Glass-Steagall is a fiscally conservative proposal when you account for the cost of the bailout. Taxing financial transactions/hedge funds is a fiscally conservative proposal when you account for the lost revenues of the Great Recession and expenses it generated.
19  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Republicans: we are now against spending cuts, they're unpopular and won't work on: October 20, 2017, 01:06:34 am
The only reason you had a small gov't, tea party wave in the first place was because the bailouts gave libertarians the chance to become populists by running against Wall Street, creating the surge for candidates like Toomey and Rand Paul to win states that are not small gov't by any means.


Trump also didn't get elected by promising to cut spending. He did the exact opposite, ran to center on healthcare, called for massive infrastructure spending and opposed cuts to entitlement programs.

20  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Republicans: we are now against spending cuts, they're unpopular and won't work on: October 20, 2017, 01:02:17 am
First they didn't hate Russians, then they went protectionist...now they're against spending cuts.  I suspect they'll be pro-union by spring.

Remember Janus will likely be decided in the spring by a 5-4 vote against the public sector unions.
21  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: North Carolina gerrymandering bill pits black judges against other incumbents on: October 20, 2017, 12:58:48 am
The North Carolina GOP is a revolting disgrace to humanity.


22  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: A Responsible Federalist Majority for The People! on: October 20, 2017, 12:54:56 am
Atlasian's

The election has commenced. I encourage all voters to get out and preference the Federalist ticket highly. We have a strong slate of candidates, with vast and diverse experiences and our House slate represent the breadth and width of both the Federalist Party and Atlasian Conservatism in general.

Only our slate has a bold list of proposals to reign in unfunded programs and bring reform Amendments to the floor and to a vote. If elected, we will be fair and we will be even handed, and we will be responsible! Even as we fight for our principles and convictions on "federalist" and "market" solutions to various issues.

Thanks and we look forward to earning your vote this weekend!

23  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: NOTICE: Congressional Procedure Amendment has passed Congress on: October 20, 2017, 12:04:40 am
Can somebody please explain what this is supposed to do, in practice?  It sounds like we can now get into a perpetual amendment loop, instead of having the other house take or leave the bill without the amendment. Correct?

Actually just the opposite.

The Senate or House would have to vote to re-open debate if the original house rejected the amended version.

But then could the second chamber amend the rejected bill again to send it back to the first chamber, or do they have to vote on the original bill only?

The original language in the constitution was too restrictive, in my view. There should be a chance for cooperation between the two houses. The old rule seems to be take it or leave it.

Original bill only.
24  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: THE ELECTION HAS STARTED!!!! on: October 20, 2017, 12:01:35 am
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 11:59:12 pm by People's Speaker North Carolina Yankee » 


The link above said midnight when I made the OP edit.
25  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: THE ELECTION HAS STARTED!!!! on: October 20, 2017, 12:01:00 am
Also Atlas is about a minute plus slow relative to the EST.


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