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December 18, 2017, 03:34:46 pm
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News: Election 2018 predictions for US Senate are now open!.

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126  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Virginia Society for the Preservation and Appreciation of High-Quality Posts on: December 07, 2017, 06:44:11 pm
A model effortpost

I thought this was interesting, so I did some research and found a law review article on the subject. I wasn't able to find a free version and its 68 pages long, so I'll just highlight some of what I consider interesting.

Forty-three states have treason statutes or constitutional provisions. The states without are Hawaii, Maryland, New Hampshire, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee. Hawaii is the only state to never have a law against treason.

The legal position of treason against the states today is sort of fuzzy; treason against the states COULD be a thing, but the window of what would specifically apply as state treason would be small, as states lack jurisdiction to punish treason against the United States as a whole. Also, most of the twenty-one states which have treason as part of their constitution nowhere actually define the punishment for it. If push ever came to shove, they would likely be deemed non self-executing and not currently valid.

As for why and how long they've been there, state treason statutes go back to a June 26, 1776, resolution of the Continental Congress:

Resolved, . . . That all persons, members of, or owing allegiance to any of the United Colonies, as before described, who shall levy war against any of the said colonies within the same, or be adherent to the king of Great Britain, or others the enemies of the *286 said colonies, or any of them, within the same, giving to him or them aid and comfort, are guilty of treason against such colony:

That it be recommended to the legislatures of the several United Colonies, to pass laws for punishing, in such manner as to them shall seem fit, such persons before described, as shall be proveably attainted of open deed, by people of their condition, of any of the treasons before described

And the topic of state treason was a hotly debated question at the Constitutional Convention. The vote on the proposal that the United States have sole power to declare punishment for treason failed 6-5.

State treason language, while mostly sticking to the "comfort or aid" language above, has changed and varied over time. For example, South Carolina's 1805 statute that made it treason to connect oneself, directly or indirectly, with any slave or slaves in a state of actual insurrection within this state or to excite, counsel, advise, induce, aid, comfort or assist any slave or slaves to raise or attempt to raise an insurrection within this state.

Since the ratification of the Constitution, state courts have completed only two treason prosecutions, both of which occurred over 150 years ago. The first was Rhode Island's 1844 prosecution of Thomas Dorr; the second was Virginia's 1859 prosecution of John Brown. There were a few before the constitution as well, Respublica v. Carlisle (High Treason against Pennsylvania in 1778) being a good example. The Dorr trial is really interesting; Dorr tried to enforce a "People's Constitution" with universal manhood suffrage over the existing government still based on the royal charter. Details here. In both cases, defense counsel argued that treason could only be a federal crime and in both cases the defendants were found guilty.

There were a few more recent cases that were dropped, including some of the strikers in the Homestead Strikes. The most recent was Ohio v. Raley in 1954. In that case, three defendants were separately indicted for contempt of the Ohio Un-American Activities Commission. After having been sworn as witnesses before the Commission, the defendants each refused to testify in response to certain questions and were after charged with treason. They were found guilty, but the case was reversed on other grounds by SCOTUS.
127  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Unban CaliforniaDreaming on: December 07, 2017, 06:36:31 pm
Why does the OP care so much about this?
128  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Atlas forum leaderboard on: December 07, 2017, 06:02:08 pm
Btw, anyone know what happened to Grumps?  He was posting at a very high rate in November, but then disappeared on Thanksgiving weekend and hasn't been back since.

Facebook sightings of Grumps confirmed.
129  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: can you just UNBAN LIBERTAS on: December 07, 2017, 05:55:19 pm
Also, how about giving CaliforniaDreaming another chance as well? Indeed, what exactly did CD get banned for?

Why do you care so much about this?
130  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Irony Oremine on: December 07, 2017, 05:51:29 pm
OK, you two need a timeout.
131  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Martin Schulz: EU must be turned into the United States of Europe on: December 07, 2017, 05:47:24 pm
I'm very much in favor of this idea. However, I'd prefer countries that does not want to join a proper federation to remain within larger European community. Nothing to gain by pushing these aside.

And I'd love Poland to be a part of the US of E.
132  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Right to party membership? on: December 07, 2017, 03:59:48 pm
Personally I've been always viewing Atlasian party membership as something analogous to U.S. party registration.
133  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Should Serbia remove all its military memorials? on: December 07, 2017, 03:52:06 pm
Don't lecture the Serbs about removals

134  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Poland General Discussion on: December 07, 2017, 03:48:31 pm
Why is Kaczynski doing this? What did Szydlo do wrong?

Maybe he prefers a "fresh face" (lol) to inaugurate second half of parliamentary term. Dunno.

It's all pretty irrelevant anyway. Kaczyński could've picked a brick to replace Szydło for all practical purposes.
135  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Poland General Discussion on: December 07, 2017, 03:16:05 pm
Initially she was rumored to be "promoted" - Sejm Marshal. Of course from any standpoint other than the order of precedence it's a demotion too.
136  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Let's talk King Lear on: December 07, 2017, 03:13:20 pm
We all knew King Lear is mentally unbalanced. Accessing this forum won't do him any good.

137  General Discussion / Constitution and Law / "Treason against the state" on: December 07, 2017, 02:26:56 pm
I noticed a number of U.S. states have laws against "treason against the state of XXX", including it being a capital offense in some.

I have two questions:

- How do you define a treason against state?
- Any instances of it being enforced, especially in more recent times?
138  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: October 2017 Federalist Party Convention - Partial Results (Expulsion at vote) on: December 07, 2017, 01:09:02 pm
Not really my business, but let me say my little piece anyway.

It's true, Oakvale is a huge dick. However, in order to keep this game realistic, we need huge dicks as him to participate. Each party needs somebody like him as well. Furthermore, I'm in extreme disagreement with Oakvale regarding the GM issue, but having it as a ground for expulsion is... weird.
139  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Forum Community Guidelines on: December 07, 2017, 12:54:03 pm
Good grief... did I actually infract on excessive hyperbole? I always hated that category... so subjective.

I don't think it's used much nowadays.

Anyway, wasn't an excessive hyperbole introduced primarily to deal with the likes of Libertas?
140  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Kalwejt Foundation for the Promotion of Atlas Hilarity on: December 07, 2017, 09:25:53 am
so happy for all the gay kangaroos out there Smiley
141  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Irony Oremine on: December 07, 2017, 05:59:15 am
yet here you are, being the same old douche.
142  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Delete TexArkanas sig and lock his ability to re-add it. on: December 07, 2017, 05:11:14 am
Would a mild chest porn combined with an excessive makeup be considered acceptable or unacceptable?

143  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Unban CaliforniaDreaming on: December 07, 2017, 02:48:02 am
only when he submits proof of castration.
And if he'll change his mind about that?

Life's about making tough choices, kid.
144  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Institute of Funny Partial Thread Titles You've Seen on Atlas on: December 06, 2017, 04:24:50 pm
Today at 04:20:55 pm
in Re: Trump expected to re...
by Alabama_Indy10
145  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Were you often bullied in school?/Were you a bully? on: December 06, 2017, 04:23:44 pm
like the sexual assault question, it greatly depends on how one defines things.  "often"...probably not, but I was on both sides of it on multiple occasions growing up.  Like most people I assume.

I guess it applies to me as well.
146  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Dave, it's time to de-mod Kalwejt (because of personal threat) on: December 06, 2017, 04:08:21 pm
Truth is, I shouldn't have posted this, regardless of ironic context. My apologies to Tender, if he felt genuinely offended.
147  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Virginia Society for the Preservation and Appreciation of High-Quality Posts on: December 06, 2017, 03:59:27 pm
There is neither theoretical reason nor empirical evidence to claim that AV encourages "encourages please-all centrism" anymore than another system.

As for the idea of "let's keep something bad now so we can get something better later", well, it is and has always been one of the most harmful pathologies of the radical left. Seem like people just never learn...

Yes there is, although you didn't bother to listen when I explained them at the time either so I'm likely banging my head against the wall. If you don't think AV would encourage parties choosing transfer-friendly candidates (centrists) or rather rule out polarising candidates who likely cannot command the support of 50%+ of the constituency's electorate, and risk losing them their seat - I don't know what to tell you.

There are not many constituencies in the country where my politics could gain over 50% support - so not only could I look forward to an Australian Greens type scenario in terms of zero or a solitary seat for millions of votes but even where agreeable leftists have won - and can win on a plurality of votes - they'd be at risk.

Of course you're likely going to accuse me of prioritising tactical advantage over fairness but given none of the voting systems on offer even attempt to achieve fairness I feel pretty justified in my decision.

Third-party candidates are just as likely to be at the ideological extremes as they are to be in the center. You obviously had 2010 in mind when you made that post, but then 2015 came along and Labour bled quite a few votes to UKIP. I don't know if these voters would ultimately have second-preffed Labour or the Tories, but at the very least, it would have given Miliband a reason to make more populist appeals rather than try to win over the middle ground - which IIRC is exactly what you wanted.

A solid left-wing force can command a majority of the vote, if faced with a clear enough alternative. The fact that you don't believe it can shows your lack of confidence in your own values, which is another sad pathology of the left.
148  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Kalwejt Foundation for the Promotion of Atlas Hilarity on: December 06, 2017, 03:49:13 pm
I think it would be most helpful if we could get a clarification from Dave ....

Good luck with that.

149  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: can you just UNBAN LIBERTAS on: December 06, 2017, 03:31:41 pm
Again, unless Libertas makes the first move, that is writes asking to be unbanned, nothing will happen at all.
150  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Resignation on: December 06, 2017, 03:29:36 pm
At the risk of jinxing it, things looks much better now that they did a couple of weeks ago. I'm very grateful for your kind words, gal and guys Smiley
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