Israel general discussion

[Famous Mortimer]

Leadership vote is now January 6th instead of December 25th. Only candidates so far are Netanyahu and Feiglin. Only other likely candidate is Danny Dannon. Dannon might make it second this time but obviously Netanyahu is a lock.

[Famous Mortimer]

Feiglin wanting a volunteer army goes along with him wanting to gut the defense budget in general. His idea is to use all the money that would have gone to defense spending to bribe Palestinians to leave the West Bank and Gaza.

Dannon wants to annex the West Bank and have the Arabs there be second class citizens. Feiglin wants to annex the West Bank and pay all the Arabs to leave.

It's debatable which of those positions is actually more right-wing. Generally though Dannon's, as it's less of a fantasy, is seen as more mainstream.

[Famous Mortimer]

It's hard to imagine Bennett as prime minister. His tenure would either with him abandoning his entire platform or with the EU imposing an embargo.

[Famous Mortimer]

I've seen a couple of articles about Lieberman become Prime Minister under a centrist government (presumably YB YA Labor, Linvi and Kahlon).

http://www.timesofisrael.com/fed-up-with-netanyahu-some-look-to-liberman/

[Famous Mortimer]

So Gabi Ashkenazi is just a tease who will never actually run?

[Famous Mortimer]

If this is Elkin's bill, then no way it passes. With Livni and Lapid voting nay, Bibi would need to a) hold all Likud MKs (not guaranteed- Livnat abstained on the cabinet vote) and b) get all the Haredi MKs (even less likely).

Bibi must be confident that the elections will go his way if he's pulling off this stunt.

Haredi MKs don't usually vote on constitutional laws from what I recall.
If YA and Livni oppose the bill will fall with the aid of the opposition.

Shas would probably vote for it but not UTJ since UTJ is still opposed to Zionism as an ideology, I believe that's why they don't ever take positions in the cabinet (although they accept deputy positions).

[Famous Mortimer]

Is Yachimovich looking unlikely to run herself?

[Famous Mortimer]

http://www.timesofisrael.com/sudanese-attacks-israeli-on-ethiopian-airlines-flight/

An Israeli citizen was attacked by a Sudanese Muslim on a flight after he learned the man was Jewish.  There doesn't seem to be much outrage or concern from the world at these attacks.  I can only imagine what the reaction would be if the roles were reversed.

I know anti-Semites are stupid but hating Jews and moving to Israel is pretty stupid even for a racist.

[Famous Mortimer]

http://www.timesofisrael.com/sudanese-attacks-israeli-on-ethiopian-airlines-flight/

An Israeli citizen was attacked by a Sudanese Muslim on a flight after he learned the man was Jewish.  There doesn't seem to be much outrage or concern from the world at these attacks.  I can only imagine what the reaction would be if the roles were reversed.

I know anti-Semites are stupid but hating Jews and moving to Israel is pretty stupid even for a racist.

I'm not sure what this response has to do with story, the attacker was Sudanese and the flight was between Chad and Ethiopia.

Oh, my bad. I thought it happened in Israel. Now it makes a bit more sense.

[Famous Mortimer]

Looks like Liberman is still pretty popular. Staying out of government was a good strategy? What is YB polling right now?

[Famous Mortimer]

Who's next on the list? Isn't it the Third Temple guy?

[Famous Mortimer]

Remind me, who is Shmoli?

Also, who are the two closeted ones?

[Famous Mortimer]

Can some Israeli poster can say more or less or maybe send me some links about which parties Israeli Christians (Arabs, not Arabs) usually vote on? They are small minority but maybe there are some data about them? I found information about such party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_the_New_Testament but they don't seem to be popular. I will be very grateful for the help.

Mostly the secular Communist/socialist Hadash party. A few vote for the more Palestinian nationalist Balad party, whose founder is a Christian. A few more vote for Labor.

Mostly Hadash though. Now both Hadash and Balad are part of the Joint List. So most vote for the Joint List.

[Famous Mortimer]

There are currently two members of the Christian community in the Knesset, both from the Joint List. One is Basel Ghattas from Balad, however is he a former member of Hadash. The other is Aida Touma-Suleiman from Hadash, however I do not know if she's in any way practicing, she's just from a Christian family, that's why I say "member of the Christian community".

[Famous Mortimer]

Didn't Barkat endorse Kadima in the past? I know this doesn't matter but it's interesting nonetheless.

[Famous Mortimer]

Although Feiglin has taken this role of media boogeyman, his platform actually isn't that scary. It's more just ridiculous. He doesn't want to kill the Arabs, he just wants to pay them all to leave. Obviously that wouldn't work and it would never happen. It's so completely fantastical it's hardly worth getting upset over.

[Famous Mortimer]

Kachlon his going to resign as MK so Akram Hasson could be made an MK. Akram Hasson is the head of Kadima btw and also ran in the JH primaries...so yeah Druze politicians at it again

Labour leadership run off will be at August. Shelly most likely competing, Herzog receiving quite a lot of fire in recent days for his break to the the right ('2 states not viable) with MK bar caught on tape mocking him

Kachlon will remain a minister?

Also, when did Herzog say that? Why wasn't that bigger news?

[Famous Mortimer]

Okay, Herzog appears to be adopting the old Kadima line (unilateral disengagement from the Palestinians and foregoing negotiations) rather than coming out as a one stater.

[Famous Mortimer]

OK, this may be a stupid question, but why couldn't there be a single state of Israel and Palestine, with both peoples having equal rights... and getting along?

1) Economic inequality. The Israelis are a relatively rich first world nation. The Palestinians are poor, the Gaza Palestinians specifically are at African levels of economic development. It would be like having one government to govern the populations of Missouri and Togo. Even if the people didn't initially want to kill each other, economic imbalance would bread resentment.

2) Jewish desire for ethnic supremacy. Some of this is fueled by religious fanaticism, a belief that God promised the Jewish people the land. Some of it is fueled by a belief that the Holocaust put the Jews in a unique situation where they must be the dominant group in their own country in order to prevent a future genocide. At this point though, the desire is mostly fueled by habit.

3) Islamic desire for Islamic supremacy. Hardline Palestinians want an Islamic state. They either want to expel the Jews or make them second class citizens, which of course the Jews wouldn't accept. Some secular Palestinians also want to expel the Jews although this is honestly probably exaggerated by the Israeli side.

It's probably the least least worst/only workable option though. I expect Israeli will see a swift, unexpected Soviet style collapse in the next 20 years.

[Famous Mortimer]

Even though Sanders is the most Israeli critical of all the serious presidential candidates, a lot of holier than thou leftists who are always anxious to call people out want to pin him as being pro-Israel. This is a major problem because most young people in America (his base) are basically pro-Hamas.

[Famous Mortimer]

[M]ost young people in America (his base) are basically pro-Hamas.

Maybe if you define pro-Hamas as not seeing why America should prop up a successful first world country such as Israel.

No, I define being pro-Hamas as thinking Hamas is a "legitimate political party", a "left-wing force", and that their violence is generally understandable if not justified. Coupled with views that Zionism is inherently racist and that Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state. These are pretty mainstream views among young people now.

Some of these feelings are inspired by bad US and Israeli policy. Most of them though are just a result of the dominant strains in campus culture. It doesn't matter if a Palestinian kills an Israeli child with a knife. The Israeli child probably had access to a cell phone, the internet, and a house with insulation. The Palestinian doesn't have those things so he is oppressed and thus, he is in the right. Who is more oppressed is the only moral logic that matters, at least that's what most young people think.

[Famous Mortimer]

You're right. I haven't been in college in about 10 years. Back then, they didn't teach this type of stuff, or if they did, it was just a few professors and nobody bought it, they just feigned it for a few papers until the semester was over. Now it's universally taught and universally believed.

[Famous Mortimer]

You're not even repeating the old lies so we can rebuke you. You're just stringing together random negative buzzwords.

What lies? That Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were terrorists? They wire. That Israel oppresses Palestinian children and that the real monsters are the likes of Ayelet Shaked? It's completely true.

Let Israel stand for themselves. Let Netanyahu lead the fight against ISIL. I guess the Islamic State was amongst the enormous positive reverberations he was talking about when he went before Congress in 2002.

Israel has committed evil atrocities. We must divest and they must be sent to The Hague.

These are attitudes common among Bernie supporters and under 30s in general. Israel will not be able to count on unconditional US support for much longer.

[Famous Mortimer]

Support for Israel is increasing? That's just delusional.

Also, I'm wondering how that bizarre claim is supposed to dovetail with the ever present Jewish claim that "anti-Semitism is on the rise!"

[Famous Mortimer]

You can't really discuss Israeli politics without discussing American politics because the United States of America is the only thing keeping Israel safe from repercussions of their policies. The only ones who made Israel a partisan issue are Israeli governments who condoned expansionist policies into an Arab-dominated area (post-67), while harping on about how Israel must remain Jewish even as it absorbs and takes Arab land. Of course Netanyahu made it worse by actively supporting the political rival of the sitting head of state in 2012. If he (or any belligerent right-winger) continues to hold on to power, Israel will lose the Democratic Party and rightfully so. Now, some would assume if you're against Israel, you're somehow pro-Hamas. I can't believe I have to say this, but being anti-Israel in some regards doesn't mean anyone condones Palestinian terrorism. One can be against Israeli imperial expansion as well as Palestinian Islamic terrorism, while supporting the level-headed people (I understand there are probably more in Israel, but even that's dwindling) instead.

I'm Jewish and I care about Israel like any immigrant would care about their 'homeland', which is why I actually hope that there is some miracle and Israel somehow elects someone sane and reasonable. That means no BS about building more settlements for "security". Probably won't happen, but hey call me an idealist. Thank god I get to live in America and we don't have to deal with this crap.

Edit: Unless the Donald is elected ofc!

Opposing Israel doesn't mean you're necessarily pro-Hamas. Most young people are though. Look at the guy in this thread. He hasn't said a word about Hamas but he's mad because some MK made a racist Facebook status.