What should minimum wage be?

[J-Mann]

Personally, I think that minimum wage should be whatever is determined to be the bare minimum one can survive on (and, obviously, this implies that it should be left to the states, since this amount would differ for each state).  If a person is relying on the job that he or she has to survive in life, I don't really think that it's fair to the worker to allow the employer to pay the person less than what they can survive off of.

I recognize that it's possible that the market could regulate itself by having competitors pay more than other companies and such, but I still think that it has the potential to be dangerous to eliminate the minimum wage.

In 2003 the poverty limit for a single person under age 65 was $9573.
For a family of two its $12321
For a couple with 6 kids its $30275

http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/threshld/thresh03.html

The minimum wage is $5.15 so if someone works 40 hours per week and 50 weeks per year he would earn $10300 which exceeds the poverty limit. However if that person is married with 6 kids then he needs to make $15.13 to be at the poverty level. Should the employer have to pay his employees based on the size of their family? If so wouldn’t that cause the employers to avoid hiring people with families?

Personally I’m opposed to minimum wage laws but I don’t think it’s all that big of a deal as the law stands now. Last time I checked the local MacDonalds was paying $7.00/ hour so it already exceeds the minimum wage.

I was trying to do similar math, but you've already done it (and I'm horrible with numbers anyway).  I think the individual wage earner should be able to meet or slightly exceed the poverty level on minimum wage (and taking into account the same 50 week factor that used).  $5.15, then, is about right, with $4.79 being the absolute minimum.

And you're right that many low-paying jobs already exceed minimum wage by a bit.  $7.00 per hour at McDonald's is actually a little surprising, though I work (part time) for the State of Kansas in what is purported to be a minimum wage job.  Yet the state has standards of its own, and I make well above $5.15 an hour.  The first job I ever had - nine years ago - was waiting tables, and it payed $2.80 an hour.  Because I got to keep all of my tips, the employer could pay me basically whatever they wanted.

I can't speak for its constitutionality (there will be good arguments on both sides), but I am glad there is a minimum wage.  There's some merit to letting people work for whatever they're willing to work for, but I think that everyone needs a certain amount of guaranteed wage protection.  This brings even the crappiest, most menial jobs up to a level where at least someone will be willing to do them.

It's sometimes harder to get a job than you'd think, even a minimum wage, part-time job.  I looked for nearly a month last year before finding my current job.  And also, it sucks to be poor.  I resent the financially comfortable who think there shouldn't be a minimum wage, because I've been there when every single nickle helped. 

[J-Mann]

Personally, I think that minimum wage should be whatever is determined to be the bare minimum one can survive on (and, obviously, this implies that it should be left to the states, since this amount would differ for each state).  If a person is relying on the job that he or she has to survive in life, I don't really think that it's fair to the worker to allow the employer to pay the person less than what they can survive off of.

I recognize that it's possible that the market could regulate itself by having competitors pay more than other companies and such, but I still think that it has the potential to be dangerous to eliminate the minimum wage.

In 2003 the poverty limit for a single person under age 65 was $9573.
For a family of two its $12321
For a couple with 6 kids its $30275

http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/threshld/thresh03.html

The minimum wage is $5.15 so if someone works 40 hours per week and 50 weeks per year he would earn $10300 which exceeds the poverty limit. However if that person is married with 6 kids then he needs to make $15.13 to be at the poverty level. Should the employer have to pay his employees based on the size of their family? If so wouldn’t that cause the employers to avoid hiring people with families?

Personally I’m opposed to minimum wage laws but I don’t think it’s all that big of a deal as the law stands now. Last time I checked the local MacDonalds was paying $7.00/ hour so it already exceeds the minimum wage.

I was trying to do similar math, but you've already done it (and I'm horrible with numbers anyway).  I think the individual wage earner should be able to meet or slightly exceed the poverty level on minimum wage (and taking into account the same 50 week factor that used).  $5.15, then, is about right, with $4.79 being the absolute minimum.

And you're right that many low-paying jobs already exceed minimum wage by a bit.  $7.00 per hour at McDonald's is actually a little surprising, though I work (part time) for the State of Kansas in what is purported to be a minimum wage job.  Yet the state has standards of its own, and I make well above $5.15 an hour.  The first job I ever had - nine years ago - was waiting tables, and it payed $2.80 an hour.  Because I got to keep all of my tips, the employer could pay me basically whatever they wanted.

I can't speak for its constitutionality (there will be good arguments on both sides), but I am glad there is a minimum wage.  There's some merit to letting people work for whatever they're willing to work for, but I think that everyone needs a certain amount of guaranteed wage protection.  This brings even the crappiest, most menial jobs up to a level where at least someone will be willing to do them.

It's sometimes harder to get a job than you'd think, even a minimum wage, part-time job.  I looked for nearly a month last year before finding my current job.  And also, it sucks to be poor.  I resent the financially comfortable who think there shouldn't be a minimum wage, because I've been there when every single nickle helped. 

If the minimum wage goes up does that cause other wages to go up too? Is it possible that all wages are driven up which gives everyone more  dollars in their pay check but also pushes up prices so that no one is really ahead in terms of purchasing power?

I'm not advocating raising it.  Where did I say that?  I just think that a sensible base minimum wage is a good idea.  I fully understand what the dangers are of arbitrarily raising the minimum wage, and I don't think at this point it's a good idea.  It should be increased periodically after a cost-of-living review.

[J-Mann]

 This brings even the crappiest, most menial jobs up to a level where at least someone will be willing to do them.

It's sometimes harder to get a job than you'd think, even a minimum wage, part-time job.  I looked for nearly a month last year before finding my current job.  And also, it sucks to be poor.  I resent the financially comfortable who think there shouldn't be a minimum wage, because I've been there when every single nickle helped. 

1.  if the job needs to get done and no one will do it for the asking price, then the price will go up until someone will take it.  thats the market at work.

2.  yes it does suck to be poor, but it isnt the government or the employers or societies fault that you are poor, why should all or any of them have to pay for it.  it isnt their fault it is yours.  why do you resent people that dont want to prop you up when you are poor?  I dont want to prop you up out of poverty either through welfare or through higher prices as a result of higher (unnneccesary wages), I could care less.

I think there's a difference between whether or not you have an obligation to prop up the poor of society and whether or not you should lend a helping hand.  I'm socially conservative but economically moderate-to-liberal.  This may seem to be a foreign concept to some of you, but I actually want to help the less fortunate.  I do so through a lot of volunteer work, etc., and I also think that there should be a minimum wage that is designed to keep the individual full-time wage earner above the poverty level.  Amazingly enough, it's not always about profit...at least it shouldn't be.

I understand your arguments and even agree with them to a point.  Is it possible that if the minimum wage were abolished that market forces would create a de facto minimum wage at around the same level it is now?  I think that's likely.