To people who keep saying the GOP nomination system is more Democratic...

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What'll be your opinion if in Nevada the state GOP goes ahead and gives all delegates to McCain? They adjourned the convention early to prevent a takeover by Paul supporters before delegates are chosen. So now they're just going to choose delegates after the fact, and I wouldn't be shocked if they just appoint a bunch of party hacks, all for McCain, despite the fact that Paul beat McCain in Nevada.

Not that this is the only blatantly undemocratic joke of a contest on the GOP side, but it's one of the most blatant. While people whine about Dem caucuses, at least Dem caucuses have clear rules as to how the delegates are alloted. The GOP rules don't have any formal method for allocating delegates, allowing for things such as the above and also making it possible for the results to just be completely thrown out the window.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's obviously not right but I still believe that, overall, our system is more democratic.

Or maybe I can use the ever-so-fair BRTDesque answer and say, "F--K THEM! THEY'RE NOT FOR MY GUY SO THEY AREN'T REAL REPUBLICANS! GOOD JOB!"

So how is it overall when you also have things like Wyoming and Montana and Nebraska just now where they can completely ignore the results and just appoint whoever they want? Or how over 67% of voters essentially had their votes thrown away in Missouri.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's obviously not right but I still believe that, overall, our system is more democratic.

Or maybe I can use the ever-so-fair BRTDesque answer and say, "F--K THEM! THEY'RE NOT FOR MY GUY SO THEY AREN'T REAL REPUBLICANS! GOOD JOB!"

So how is it overall when you also have things like Wyoming and Montana and Nebraska just now where they can completely ignore the results and just appoint whoever they want? Or how over 67% of voters essentially had their votes thrown away in Missouri.

Overall because Wyoming, Montana, Nebraska and Nevada don't make up a majority of our contests, BRTD.

OK, but then how is the GOP system in other states more democratic? Take the largest state for instance, where McCain won over 90% of delegates with 42% of the vote.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Hey it's a fact, the Democratic system is far more proportional (though still rather flawed in some areas, see Alabama, but still miles ahead of the GOP system.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Hey it's a fact, the Democratic system is far more proportional (though still rather flawed in some areas, see Alabama, but still miles ahead of the GOP system.)

Good for you guys. I don't want that. I also love when prominent Democratic strategists (Paul Begala) speak out against your system on national TV.

I don't care about him. I'm just glad my party doesn't use something as insanely braindead and moronic as winner take all. WTA is a complete f**king undemocratic JOKE.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm just glad my party doesn't use something as insanely braindead and moronic as winner take all. WTA is a complete f**king undemocratic JOKE.

Well, you guys do have caucuses which many argue are undemocratic.

The Republicans don't have any caucuses?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm just glad my party doesn't use something as insanely braindead and moronic as winner take all. WTA is a complete f**king undemocratic JOKE.

Well, you guys do have caucuses which many argue are undemocratic.

The Republicans don't have any caucuses?

As far as I know, the republicans don't have anything quite like the Iowa system, though.

Just to be fair.

Yes, but like Nevada they have no formal system for allocating the delegates from Iowa allowing for the type of stuff like mentioned in the original post. Also most Democratic caucuses don't use the Iowa system.

Hell let's take my home state. For the DFL caucus, you don't need to actually attend, you can just show up, vote and leave. The delegate allocation is then directly tied to the results of the vote, just like a primary. For the GOP side the vote is just a non-binding straw poll, you need to actually attend the caucus and no delegates are assigned until the district and state conventions which also have no real formal system for doing so and are prone to manipulation (though Paul was able to win a delegate from 7/8 of our districts despite the GOP no doubt trying to block this.) But Paul has to fight for his delegates, under the Democratic system he'd be guaranteed delegates statewide as well from districts 1, 4, 5, 6 and 7.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Now I need to calculate what the GOP allotment would be in Minnesota if they used the DFL system.

Well obviously the district delegate numbers would be different. Let's use these numbers:

    * CD 1: 6
    * CD 2: 7
    * CD 3: 6
    * CD 4: 5
    * CD 5: 5
    * CD 6: 7
    * CD 7: 6
    * CD 8: 5

Statewide the 16 at large delegates would be assigned like this:

Romney - 7
McCain - 4
Huckabee - 3
Paul - 2

And the 9 PLEOs:

Romney - 4
McCain - 2
Huckabee - 2
Paul - 1

District 1: Romney 2, McCain 1, Huckabee 2, Paul 1
District 2: Romney 4, McCain 2, Huckabee 1
District 3: Romney 3, McCain 2, Huckabee 1
District 4: Romney 2, McCain 1, Huckabee 1, Paul 1
District 5: Romney 2, McCain 1, Huckabee 1, Paul 1
District 6: Romney 4, McCain 1, Huckabee 1, Paul 1
District 7: Romney 2, McCain 1, Huckabee 2, Paul 1
District 8: Romney 2, McCain 1, Huckabee 2

Totals:
Romney - 21
McCain - 10
Huckabee - 11
Paul - 5

Overall Totals:
Romney - 32
McCain - 16
Huckabee - 16
Paul -  8

Hey, also neatly divided into fractions! Though this also would require the GOP have the same number of delegates overall as the Dems do.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Why do the Democrats have states that one candidate won and the other got more delegates? How is that democratic?

*sigh*, I've been over this before. The state in question is Nevada. Why did this happen?

Nevada had 6 statewide delegates and 3 PLEOs. The at large delegates split 3-3. The PLEOs went 2-1 Hillary.

Then the district delegates. Most states just assign their delegates by district, but Nevada was different and had 5 different allocations:

CD 1 - 6 delegates. Split 3-3.
CD 2 - This is where the discrepancy came. It's 6 delegates were further split into 3 subgroups:
Washoe County - 3 delegates, 2-1 Obama.
Clark County - 2 delegates, 1-1 split.
Rural Nevada - 1 delegate, went to Obama.
So Obama picked up 4-2 here, when if the district was like all others he it would've went 3-3.
CD 3 - 4 delegates. Split 2-2.

CD 2 was the reason for this, and that's actually due to the fact that one allotment was "winner take all" (being only one delegate). So actually more comparable to the GOP system. If Nevada had used a system like all other states, it would've been 13-12 Hillary, rather than the reverse. The complaint is not with the Democratic system, but with one state. And even then, Nevada is still more proportional than it'll be on the GOP side if McCain gets all delegates.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Now I need to calculate what the GOP allotment would be in Minnesota if they used the DFL system.

Well obviously the district delegate numbers would be different. Let's use these numbers:

    * CD 1: 6
    * CD 2: 7
    * CD 3: 6
    * CD 4: 5
    * CD 5: 5
    * CD 6: 7
    * CD 7: 6
    * CD 8: 5

Statewide the 16 at large delegates would be assigned like this:

Romney - 7
McCain - 4
Huckabee - 3
Paul - 2

And the 9 PLEOs:

Romney - 4
McCain - 2
Huckabee - 2
Paul - 1

District 1: Romney 2, McCain 1, Huckabee 2, Paul 1
District 2: Romney 4, McCain 2, Huckabee 1
District 3: Romney 3, McCain 2, Huckabee 1
District 4: Romney 2, McCain 1, Huckabee 1, Paul 1
District 5: Romney 2, McCain 1, Huckabee 1, Paul 1
District 6: Romney 4, McCain 1, Huckabee 1, Paul 1
District 7: Romney 2, McCain 1, Huckabee 2, Paul 1
District 8: Romney 2, McCain 1, Huckabee 2

Totals:
Romney - 21
McCain - 10
Huckabee - 11
Paul - 5

Overall Totals:
Romney - 32
McCain - 16
Huckabee - 16
Paul -  8

Hey, also neatly divided into fractions! Though this also would require the GOP have the same number of delegates overall as the Dems do.

I'd have to have this perfectly set up result ruined, but I forgot that Huckabee failed viability in CDs 3 and 5. So he loses 2 delegates, the one from district 3 to Romney, the one from district 5 to McCain. So it becomes:

Romney - 33
McCain - 17
Huckabee - 14
Paul -  8