Vermont gmo label law starts today (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 11, 2024, 11:52:14 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  Vermont gmo label law starts today (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Vermont gmo label law starts today  (Read 3954 times)
Alcon
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,866
United States


« on: July 11, 2016, 05:22:54 PM »
« edited: July 11, 2016, 05:27:03 PM by Alcon »

4.There are how many thousands of scientists in medicine or chemistry?  Just because these scientists have Nobel Prizes I don't think proves there is a scientific consensus.

I've previously linked to a recent article from a European Journal showing there was no consensus in the academic scientific community, and here is a website:
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/list.php

I don't know how credible it is, but they do list over 800 scientists opposed to GMOs, or some aspect of GMO research.

Please don't give crap like this the time of day.  This is one of those marginal science-truther groups that exist around climate change and a myriad of other issues.  Some of these people have scientific accreditation (as do some climate change denialists), but others are crazies, sociologists, and a few don't appear to be scientists at all.  One appears to be a political consultant in Nevada.

There is plenty of independent, government-funded research into the safety of GMOs.  The European Union, for instance, has funded a ton of research.  The findings for the independently-funded research are effectively identical to those funded with industry money.   I don't know how you reached this conclusion, unless you read it somewhere and didn't even bother to Google it to verify.

A lot is industry-funded, but that's because a lot of university research has industry funding, not because of some vast conspiracy.  The proportion of scientists who believe GMOs are safe to eat is the same as the proportion who believe in climate change.

It's really painful to watch some on the left with this issue.  And it's so often the same people who claim they're totally baffled by how right-wingers can fail to understand the basics of climate change science, and refuse to defer to scientific consensus.  This is how.  Just replace "greedy, dishonest academics" with "greedy, dishonest corporations" and you're set.  And if you wonder how those on the right can conflate weather with climate...well, how often do you see people on the left presume "contains GMO" tells us something useful about "what's in our food," as if genetic engineering were an ingredient or specific enough to be actionable?  That belies a basic misunderstanding of concepts, too.
Logged
Alcon
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,866
United States


« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2016, 05:32:59 PM »

Ingemann, what do you make of the independent findings (I believe the few studies in question were independent) that some GMO technologies allow for the use of less harsh pesticides?  And what specific concerns do you have about GMOs and biodiversity that don't apply to conventional technologies?  Your response that "pesticides don't work that way" earlier kind of confuses me.  A lot of your criticisms don't seem particularly unique to GMOs.
Logged
Alcon
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,866
United States


« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2016, 08:03:43 PM »
« Edited: July 11, 2016, 08:09:09 PM by Alcon »

You're fully correct that the criticism aren't unique to GMO, it's a general problem we see with modern agriculture. But GMO makes the problems I mention worse. While most western farmers buy seeds, they have a broad choice of seed companies, which means that there are more genetic diversity in the the crop between farm to farm, limiting the risk of an epidemic hitting the crop. GMO crops are geared toward specific pesticides, which mean the crop are owned by a single company and have even less genetic diversity than standard crop.

But when I mentioned western farmers, it also show one of the problems with bringing GMO to the undeveloped world, their farmers usual don't buy the seeds, but keep some from last year's harvest. This mean that their crop are more diverse and more robust against epidemics. But they are often sold GMO as some kind of miracle crop, and they usual lack the equitment and money, which western farmers have, which enable them to deal with monoculture crops.

Do I think that we could introduce beneficial GMOs; yes I do, but I don't believe that will happen unless states or NGO develop them instead of large agrocorps.

OK....I've attempted to research this, and I'm running up against frustratingly sketchy web sites -- ones that, even when engaging in the pretense of being scientific, do not seem trustworthy to me (a lot of them use the word "natural" like its reader should assume that it's an intrinsic good).  Unfortunately, that's making it really difficult to validate your concern.

If I understand correctly, you're arguing that a less diverse marketplace for GMO seeds means less genetic diversity.  You seem to be echoing the claims that a few companies own upwards of 80% of the market share for GMO seeds, higher than with conventional agriculture.  However, from what I can tell, this is only true if you attribute any seed that contains Monsanto-licensed traits, even if the seed is engineered primarily by another company.  Does merely including the licensed trait of a company introduce monoculture problems?  I can't find any cites to support this idea, or even attempts to cite this claim.  Have you found a citation that does not come from Internet Crazytown?

It also seems kind of ridiculous to argue this justifies GMO labeling when monoculture has become a massive problem well before GMO technology was introduced.  You're arguing we should label GMOs to give consumers (who have no idea what monoculture is) a shortcut to prevent a problem that we've been effectively ignoring for generations?  It's a label that's standing in as a proxy label for a problem the label-readers won't even be aware of!  It's like labeling fruit "NOTICE: ORIGINATES FROM MEXICAN FARMS" because Mexican farms are 25% more likely to be use environmentally harsh crop rotation schedules.  Absolutely no one is going to get the take-away, and the hit to Mexican farms would do almost nothing to address the underlying problem besides hurting farms somewhat more likely to exhibit it.  And consumers would mostly get the take-away, "man, there must be something dangerous about food from Mexican farms."

It's one of my point pesticide resistance makes the most sense from a economic POV (from corporation). Farmers with good soil are richer and can pay more, they can afford pesticides and pay for expensive GMO crop. Farmers whose soil often suffer from drought and salination on the other hand can't afford expensive GMO crop. Which is why pesticide resistance is the main choice for modification of the crops.

That doesn't really answer my question, though.  I asked you what you make of the mixed findings that pesticide-resistant crops allow for the use of less harsh pesticides.  Your response that "pesticides don't work that way" makes me unclear on whether you're aware of this concept, which is weird because you otherwise seem to have read a lot (unless your reading has mostly been in Internet Crazytown).
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.029 seconds with 10 queries.