SENATE BILL: Atlasian Green Jobs Act (Law'd)

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I authored a bill much like this a year ago. It calls for 20% of our energy to be from renewable resources by 2020 or something like that. I'm not sure throwing $80 billion  for more renewable energy would be that efficient with those regulations already in place.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I authored a bill much like this a year ago. It calls for 20% of our energy to be from renewable resources by 2020 or something like that. I'm not sure throwing $80 billion  for more renewable energy would be that efficient with those regulations already in place.

I don't think it could hurt, it does take us closer to a 20% mark. 

$$$$$ limits maybe, if we're looking to keep spending in check. As it stands, we don't know how much we are currently spending. A lot of it is instructions to businesses to cut their emissions as opposed to federal spending.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I'm not sure what kind of amending we can do to this bill in it's present state. I'm all for green jobs, and I think that industry is the future of our economy, but I'm wary of pumping another $80 billion into the industry given our current budgetary issues and state of our economy. If the benefits are worth it, I'd be totally for it, but given all the work we've already done, I think we're already well on our way to energy independence. Just IMO. 

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I'd tend to support shua's proposal over spending a lump sum on a specific technology. After all, some of these technologies may be DOA. Further, an amendment like that would mesh much better with the incentive laden bill I passed last year.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Both the President and Senator shua have good points here. I think that we should focus considerably energies on organizing processes to ensure we accomplish real results for those dollars that are spent. That leaves a queation for how these will be organized. shua suggested loans to to developers, and the President mentioned in general a focus on replacing old school industry with green industry jobs.

I would point out that there is a risk of increased unemployment as a result of this switch from old to green as far as industrial applications goes. When you force a shift in production, you inevitably are forcing the use of the latest generation machinery, to replace what likely is a previous generation setup. That shift often brings with it increased efficiency and thus a need for less workers as well. It's not a concern that should make us avoid or not do something entirely because of it, but it should be something that is considered as we push forward with this.

It could also be argued that investing in these newer technologies could increase jobs in the short term. Installing new solar panels, removing other older technologies, and the like will inevitability create a demand for workers, and moving industries from oil powered utilities to electric and/or hybrid type utilities will see the creation of new factories producing these batteries/panels/wind turbines.

I think there is a new market to be had in this type of research, but I, like shua, am wary about setting aside X number of dollars on a specific technology that may or may not be worth that dollar amount. I think loans or creating a fund available for private and public businesses to use to invest in green technology should be the way to go so we can experiment with what works and what doesn't. Just look at ethanol. In fact, I may propose an amendment creating a Green Energy Fund of sorts that allows businesses to borrow money at a low rate to invest sooner rather than later.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

We can set soft target dates if we don't amend for a green energy fund. I tend to favor shua's proposal, or a hybrid of sorts, over the current wording though.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Haven't we already had many bills on nuclear power? Wouldn't it be redundant to build both solar and wind power plants o top of the current conversation to nuclear power?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

We already give tax breaks to companies who are energy efficient. Remember my bill?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Investi g in green technology is expensive. My bill was intended to give them inventive to invest in it for the betterment of this country long term. I think it's better for our budget than the federal government paying for it.

But don't worry , you don't have to worry about signing my bill.

I would favor federal funds being available for people to take advantage of to research green technology. I'm still wary of a flat rate to invest in X technology. Seems too simplistic.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Tax incentives, as I said early, give companies a financial incentive to upgrade and/or change their methods. It's not a perfect solution but it works. Other times, popular support can cause a change if a competitor's ideas are proving to be popular, an older company will join the bandwagon.

However, this bill doesnt really address that.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Tax incentives, as I said early, give companies a financial incentive to upgrade and/or change their methods. It's not a perfect solution but it works. Other times, popular support can cause a change if a competitor's ideas are proving to be popular, an older company will join the bandwagon.

However, this bill doesnt really address that.

Well I'd cetianly be happy to work with you if you had any amendments.  Just because I have a more liberal economic PM score doesn't mean I'm not willing to comprimise. 

My office is always open.

But what I was referring to was a bill I already got passed about a year ago under Purple State. We already offer private businesses to invest in clean technology. What I think this bill is trying to accomplish to spur research into different types of technologies, which is good.

That said, I think we are still going about it the wrong way. I think we should overhaul this bill to create a federal fund of sorts that offers low interest loans to companies researching these types of technologies. I think the green industry is one this country can see bloom and perhaps replace old manufacturing jobs that are never coming back. If this bill is designed to do that, not trying to beat a dead horse here, assigning a lump sum of cash to a certain industry seems silly simply because we don't know what works and doesn't work. We could also leave out something that does work, and then what happens?

At least in a fund, there is much more flexibility. If we discover one type of technology works and can be mass produced, we can borrow as much capital as needed to fund the project. If we give X number of dollars to a failed technology, then what happens?

Either I'm missing the point to this entire bill, or it needs some serious reworking before it's ready to be passed.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

We'd basically be rewriting this bill if I wrote an amendment. How much should we out I'm this fund? $50 billion? And at what interest rate should we set the loans at?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

OK, here's a rough amendment. It basically changes the entire bill, but so be it. I'm iffy on the interest rate. The current primate rate in the US is 3.25%.

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[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I'm fine with your proposals. The government could theoretically turn a profit off the $30B in loans alone to cover the $5B invested in low income businesses. I totally forgot to include regional governments in my amendment. I wrote up another amendment, so disregard the previous one, that divvies up the funds for each project. The only change I made from your proposals is the last one. Community organizations are typically private entities and privately owned by the residents, so I would simply lump that into the private entity claus. I upped the regional amount to $10 billion because I hope these regional governments will go all in in investing in their environments at locally.

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[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

The only problem I have with this is the paltry amount being given to regional governments. We could allocate a certain amount of money to developing a clean energy grid, although I have no idea what that means.

I still think we should merge private entities and community organizations, because they really are private entities. Should we move that $4B over to regional governments? Make a separate claus for a clean energy grid, if someone can explain that to me?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

But fuzzy, I'm a capitalist pig! I want private businesses to be the main benefaciary of these loans!

But my real reason is that if this takes off, we need the private sector to be the ending for job creation. To take a page from our populist friends, it's about the people!

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

OK. It's not that big of a deal, and certainly not one that should hold up this bill from passing.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

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I hope this is the final amendment draft. I really do. I took some from here and there which probably won't make a beans bit of difference in the long run. I hope this will satisfy everyone involved, because it sure does me, and I plan on celebrating hard tonight if everyone else tells me they are a-ok.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Notice how I took $5 billion off the private number? Who says I'm not flexible?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I think this Bill addresses a lot of needs and does it fairly.

Of course you do, you basically wrote it. 

Excuse me...ahem

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Aye