Resolution on the issue of Atlasian recognition of the USA [Failed]

[Colin]

I was of the understanding that Atlasia in many ways replaced the United States, I see this bill slightly conflicting with this idea.

Well it basically changes our role in the world from replacing the United States to become just another, albeit very small, part of a community of nations that includes the United States. I can see what Lewis is trying to do here in that, the way we've been running things, its pretentious to say that even in a fantasy world we are a superpower and it would be better to project some sort of reality onto the Atlasian nation as a whole.

[Colin]

Aye

[Colin]

Since I would be away, and this is likely to be a close vote, I would like to state that my absentee vote for this bill would be Aye. If it is possible I would like it to be counted as much if this comes to a vote while I'm away.

[Colin]

Since I would be away, and this is likely to be a close vote, I would like to state that my absentee vote for this bill would be Aye. If it is possible I would like it to be counted as much if this comes to a vote while I'm away.

What is the protocol on absentee senate voting?

Well when I had left before for long periods, during Gabu's tenure as SoFA, I used to just PM him a few votes on some bills that would probably be up for voting and he would count them the same as if I was here in the Senate, as long as the bill hadn't changed, in essence, from its original form.

[Colin]

I would like to state at this time that unless this bill returns to something akin to its original form, and not some silly declaration of war, then it would automatically recieve a Presidential veto. I would elaborate further on my objections to the bill if asked to do so.

[Colin]

I would like to state at this time that unless this bill returns to something akin to its original form, and not some silly declaration of war, then it would automatically recieve a Presidential veto. I would elaborate further on my objections to the bill if asked to do so.

You can't veto resolutions.

Oh hell yes I forgot this was a resolution. Jetlag seems to be catching up with me. But I'd just like to put it on the record that I object to the resolution in its current form and consider it quite silly.

[Colin]

Well then my prior objections stand. I would be willing to promote some sort of public debate on the issue followed by a public referendum on the future of Atlasian-US relations, however it is my belief, from years of service to Atlasia, that committees that take time to study issues usually do nothing more than end up inactive and do nothing more than make an actual problem "disappear" do to lack of involvement.

So I would have nothing wrong with a resolution promoting a frank and honest discussion among all Atlasians concerning this problem and I would have no problem with the calling of a public referendum with multiple options concerning the future state of affairs between the United States and Atlasia. However as I said before the current resolution is nothing but sillyness and is truely a dishonour to those who want to see a true solution and common application of the status of the Atlasian state in the international arena.

[Colin]

I think we should vote on an amendment to replace this whole bill with the bill TrueDem came up with

I fail to see where True Dem brought forward an amendment to this bill for consideration and review by the Senate. I have only seen him make comments concerning the nature of a "national discussion" on the issue.

[Colin]

I think we should vote on an amendment to replace this whole bill with the bill TrueDem came up with

I fail to see where True Dem brought forward an amendment to this bill for consideration and review by the Senate. I have only seen him make comments concerning the nature of a "national discussion" on the issue.

He proposed a bill that I am now sponsoring that can be found in the legislation introduction thread.  I think we could all agree to just replace this bill with that.

Having read through it my immediate problem with the bill is the creation of a committee. As I stated before in my long history of government service in Atlasia I have never seen a committee created by the Senate fulfill its goal to the degree that the solution is able to be implemented into law. Committees either disband after a while do to lack of interest, or never come up with a full report and drag on for months, or come back with very loose and fluid answers to the questions at hand. I've never seen a committee actually create a national discussion on an issue, if anything a committee usually serves to bury the issue by dragging out proceedings for months at a time. Committees in Atlasia sweep major issues under the rug instead of trying to actively solve them.

For these reasons I would be very leery of any committee being formed to discuss these issues. I have nothing wrong with an informal, or formal, discussion among Atlasian voters as to their opinions, culminating in a referenda on the issue, but I do not believe that a committee would do anything more than stall this issue and sweep another major problem that must be solved under the rug.

[Colin]

I believe a committee worked well with the micronation issue, so I don't see why it cannot work well with this issue.

Well I actually believe that the micronation committee did nothing or, at least, they let the issue slip away and kept the status quo without considering other options. Like most committees it let the issue die away without actually coming out with a formal analysis of the problems at hand.

A formalized committee, with its structure and all the aspects of forming such a body as well as writing reports and setting up all these interviews as such, would be too tedious for the issue of whether or not we should retain the status quo. The options, in my mind, are simple and easy enough for all Atlasians to comprehend them. Either we retain the status quo or we recognize that Atlasia and America are two different entities and that the reality that we live in is nearly the same as that of the real world. If the people vote to recognize that Atlasia and America are two seperate nations then we can work out the details from there, since a committee would be a complete waste of time if the people didn't agree that we need to change the current status quo.

I have a compromise idea though. A public referendum will be held with two options, one being the maintaining of the status quo and the other being the recognition of America and the creation of a seperate Atlasian entity. If a majority vote for the second option then it probably would be in the nations best interest to set up a committee to debate the proper form that this new Atlasian entity should take.

[Colin]

As I have said before I am quite leery of the idea of a committee to discuss the issue of recognition of the United States before consulting the Atlasian people about whether they would want to retain the status quo or recognize the United States. I would be content, as I stated above, if a committee was formed after a majority voted for the recognition of the United States since then many different variables, such as world history between 2004-2007 and the location and composition of the Atlasian state, would have to be considered.

I would consider it a waste of time to consult only the opinions of 6 people and whoever they want to interview when we can easily see, through public referenda, what the opinion of a much larger body of Atlasian voters. It would be a waste of time for such a committee to form, take its merry old time deciding anything, release a report, if they ever do release one, in November, and then have the Atlasian people vote against the proposals anyway and we remain in the same effective position vis-a-vis the United States of America as we are now.

[Colin]

Minor query:  I am assuming that after the public talk period is over, an amendment will be made for a public referendum on the Atlasia/US.

Well it will definitely be over by the time the Senate actually gets to tabling this bill and passing some sort of public referenda idea as I proposed above. I really didn't have a set time for this public discussion to last and wanted it to be a more free and open discourse than anything set in stone. Mostly to make people aware of the debate and to participate in it themselves.

It may be easier just to introduce any proposed public referenda legislation as an amendment to this current legislation, striking the current text. I currently do not have a text for any such bill/amendment, and I really am horrible at writing bills that's the reason I've always differed to others to turn my ideas into legislation.

[Colin]

I understand what Sam has stated and I will be talking with the SoEA and with whoever else has any imput they would like to add on when to hold such a referendum and what the options should be for such a vote. After this is completed I would like to enact it via executive order as that would seem to be the best way to legally accomplish what has been proposed.