IL-3 Dem Primary: Election Day!

[Blair]

And the 3rd Congressional is not what you think of as Chicago. I mean look at this map. Yes, the furthest NE corner of the map are in Chicago, but the vast majority of the district is in the blue-collar suburbs, with a population largely made up of religious descendents of Irish, Polish, Greek, Italian, Czech and Mexican immigrants. This district has even been called a home to the Reagan Democrats. Whether you like it or not, Lipinksi represents the values of his constituents. Outside forces trying to shoehorn in someone who doesn't represent her constituents but will toe the national party line is narrow-minded, and really appalling.

yeah dude, the southwest suburbs are well-known for their hatred of affordable healthcare and opposition to a higher minimum wage. there's a tendency in this thread to view Lipinski as some sort of champion of the working class, from the mythical "communitarian" chunk of the political compass. in truth, he's just a fossilized conservadem increasingly out of step with his district — not just on issues like abortion and LGBT rights, but on a whole host of economic issues.

Yeah I never get the idea that because there's working class immigrant groups, that somehow gives you a right to oppose LGBT rights.

[Blair]

I personally don't care about putting effort into primarying incumbent congresscritters unless they are utterly terrible. Lipinski is a safe vote for the Democrats on everything but a couple wedge issues, which I don't see a need to cause a ruckus about (unless he would be spearheading efforts against the gays, which he is not). Not optimal if you are taking the Lipinski situation from a partisan hack perspective, but whatever. Like I said, I don't care. Lipinski will never be a deciding vote on a measure.

I mean supporting President Obama in 2012 was hardly a wedge issue

[Blair]

People need to stop being so goddam precious about this.

If you inherit you're seat in a crooked deal from your daddy, oppose the centre piece of legislation from your party and refuse to endorse the most popular sitting President in your party, whilst holding views outside of the mainstream of your parties ideology.... expect a primary challenge!

I'm sure the vast majority of people supporting Newman will vote straight D in 2018. Who cares if Newman doesn't win? At least it will show that some people in the district care about LGBT rights, women's rights etc rather than an out-dated fetishisation of 'macho' working class immigrant culture

[Blair]

If his dad is allow to fix, and cheat to get him his seat in Congress, then progressives have every right to throw the absolute kitchen sink to kick him out of congress. There's a lot of chat on this thread about people from outside the district but look at this gem....

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So not only did his Dad drop out after the primary, but he was then the one who helped make the decision to appoint his son, who hadn't lived in state since the 90s

[Blair]

Whether you like him or not, guy's 13-year track record in Congress should outweigh how he got the seat 20 to 1 at least.

But his record in Congress is awful?

[Blair]

Whether you like him or not, guy's 13-year track record in Congress should outweigh how he got the seat 20 to 1 at least.

But his record in Congress is awful?

His record in Congress involves bringing a train station to his district just this past year, along with leadership on transportation issues (his district includes some rail yards too, atop all of that). How is that awful?

Because funnily enough, as a gay person I'd rather have a congressman who supports LGBT rights than someone who brings in a train station. The History of Congress is littered with awful bigots who brought home the bacon with one hand, whilst slapping minority groups with the others.

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[Blair]

His record in Congress involves bringing a train station to his district just this past year, along with leadership on transportation issues (his district includes some rail yards too, atop all of that). How is that awful?

"On the one hand, he's an amoral monster who supports all the horrid policies advanced by the Republicans. On the other, he managed to secure part of the money to refurbish the second-largest Metra station in La Grange."

You have a severe case of Lipinski Derangement Syndrome. Why else would you be spreading this fake news?

SJoyce is being too generous here; from a quick count there's at least a handful of sitting Republican house members who are more progressive on LGBT rights than Lipinski.

Heck Mark Kirk has a more liberal record than him on gay rights; if you're a Democrat, and the former Republican senator from your own state is more LGBT friendly you should expect a primary challenge.

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[Blair]

His record in Congress involves bringing a train station to his district just this past year, along with leadership on transportation issues (his district includes some rail yards too, atop all of that). How is that awful?

"On the one hand, he's an amoral monster who supports all the horrid policies advanced by the Republicans. On the other, he managed to secure part of the money to refurbish the second-largest Metra station in La Grange."

You have a severe case of Lipinski Derangement Syndrome. Why else would you be spreading this fake news?

SJoyce is being too generous here; from a quick count there's at least a handful of sitting Republican house members who are more progressive on LGBT rights than Lipinski.

Heck Mark Kirk has a more liberal record than him on gay rights; if you're a Democrat, and the former Republican senator from your own state is more LGBT friendly you should expect a primary challenge.

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It is ludicrous primarying him solely on the basis of this issue.
There are plenty of terrible GOP policies out there. The wording 'all the horrid policies advanced by the Republicans' is not just clumsy phrasing, it's bordering outright lying.

Didn't endorse Obama in 2012, voted against Obamacare, voted against the Dream Act in 2001, voted against banning workplace discrimination based on sexual orientation, voted against stem cell research.

I disagree that it's ludicrous to primary someone who doesn't support the civil rights of gay people.

It's really not that complex- it's not 1995, and we don't have to try and pander to these sorts of useful idiots anymore.

[Blair]

Lol, as if all those you listed is the totality of the GOP's bad policies.
What a comedy show this thread has became...

I wasn't responding to your comment about the 'totality of the GOP's bad policies'', but rather the when you said....

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I was demonstrating that Lipskini's lack of support for gay rights isn't at all the only issue where he's out of touch with the values of the Democrats.

You still haven't actually responded, or even tried to defend Lipsinki's awful record on LGBT rights

[Blair]

I’m too lazy to directly quote it but this NYT piece on democratic primary challenges seems to blame wi-fi hungry hipsters

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/us/politics/democrats-primaries-division.html

[Blair]

My early prediction was that it would be 47-44 or something around a 2-3 margin. At least it would show Lipskni that he’s not exactly beloved

[Blair]

Let's hope Sanders unloads his email list.

Has the Illinois Democratic Party done anything to back Lipskini? I saw they were sending around some fliers against some progressives running for internal positions, but I haven't seen much about what Lipsinki campaign is doing (probably because they're keeping it local)

[Blair]

After the roaring success of a the DCCC in Texas I’m not too fussed.

Fwiw national democrats have always being backing him-but the question isn’t whether the Triple C back him, but how they do it. If they really cared they would have bought advertising last month, sent staff, done oppo research.

[Blair]

To keep contributing to this flaming pile of garbage.

1.) My opposition to Lipinski isn't on the basis that he's a 'moderate'. Whilst I'm not one of the people who thinks that a 'no labels' think-tank with Jon Huntsman, Susan Collins, Joe Lieberman and Joe Manchin holding hands would someone solve all of Washington's problems (or politics at large) I'm equally not someone who at all supports primarying people like Manchin, Heitkamp or Donnelly.

But you can't just turn 'think about the moderates' into a shield to defend politicians who are awful. If Lipinski had say endorsed Jill Stein in 2012, voted against Obamacare cause it lacked a single payer etc I'd still support primarying him. Even if National groups didn't turn in I remember ages ago when lots of people where upset that someone was challenging Lipinski; you don't have the right not to face a primary, and not to be called out over stupid votes/decisions that you make as an elected official.

2.) For the 5th time; don't fetish/romanticize the idea of whatever the working class represents (because when people often do they mean white-working class) There are plenty of working class people who are LGBT, who need protections from the government, they're plenty of working class women who need access to contraception, they're plenty of working class people who need access to cheap healthcare. Lipinski opposed all of this- fighting some bullsh**t culture crap from the 90's doesn't help his district.

[Blair]

For all the right- Winger's lamenting Democrats engaging in a so-called Purity Purge of Lipinski, consider this. Take an AR + 6 District like Steven teague's or Justin Amash instead of A+ 6D District like lipinski's. Now imagine the Republican incumbent has a voting record that is pro Obamacare, Pro DREAM Act, pro-gay marriage even before became a fait accompli by the Supreme Court, and resolutely aggressively pro-choice. And they even refused to endorse Romney over Obama in 2012.

Go on and tell us because they are anywhere from right-of-center to mainstream conservative on economics that you would oppose a staunch conservative primary Challenger because you opposed Purity purges by either major party.

Yeah, I didn't think so either. The bottom line is conservatives are upset because they're losing a conservative vote on multiple issues out of this primary. Yet no one I think would hold my own party to the same standards of moderation. The fact is, it's unlikely that such a Republican incumbent as I described would ever exist or be elected in the first place in an r + 6 District. Though maybe if they inherited the seat from their father the same way Lipinski did, maybe.

Add on to the fact that Mark Kirk, the Republican senator from Illinois had a more liberal record on social issues than Lipinski.

[Blair]

For all the right- Winger's lamenting Democrats engaging in a so-called Purity Purge of Lipinski, consider this. Take an AR + 6 District like Steven teague's or Justin Amash instead of A+ 6D District like lipinski's. Now imagine the Republican incumbent has a voting record that is pro Obamacare, Pro DREAM Act, pro-gay marriage even before became a fait accompli by the Supreme Court, and resolutely aggressively pro-choice. And they even refused to endorse Romney over Obama in 2012.

Go on and tell us because they are anywhere from right-of-center to mainstream conservative on economics that you would oppose a staunch conservative primary Challenger because you opposed Purity purges by either major party.

Yeah, I didn't think so either. The bottom line is conservatives are upset because they're losing a conservative vote on multiple issues out of this primary. Yet no one I think would hold my own party to the same standards of moderation. The fact is, it's unlikely that such a Republican incumbent as I described would ever exist or be elected in the first place in an r + 6 District. Though maybe if they inherited the seat from their father the same way Lipinski did, maybe.

"Right-wingers"? It's interesting that you would lump in people like Bagel23 (moderate Democrat) and GreenLine (independent), as well as an independent such as myself, under such a category. The argument throughout, which I have made, is that I think polarization would be less if there was room for ideological diversity within each party, and room for compromise and bipartisanship on more issues. The route that you're suggesting would eventually eliminate people like Manchin and Collins, leaving us with only politicians with aggressively partisan agendas, unwilling to work across party lines for the better good of the country.

You’re making it out as if Lipinski is some grand deal maker like Ted Kennedy. Heck he voted against the bipartisan Dream Act in 2010!!! To quote my early point on the rather weak argument about Lipinski being a bi-partisan hero

[quote]Whilst I'm not one of the people who thinks that a 'no labels' think-tank with Jon Huntsman, Susan Collins, Joe Lieberman and Joe Manchin holding hands would someone solve all of Washington's problems (or politics at large) I'm equally not someone who at all supports primarying people like Manchin, Heitkamp or Donnelly.

But you can't just turn 'think about the moderates' into a shield to defend politicians who are awful. If Lipinski had say endorsed Jill Stein in 2012, voted against Obamacare cause it lacked a single payer etc I'd still support primarying him. Even if National groups didn't turn in I remember ages ago when lots of people where upset that someone was challenging Lipinski; you don't have the right not to face a primary, and not to be called out over stupid votes/decisions that you make as an elected official.

[Blair]

Here come the buzzwords about 'San Francisco values'....

As a gay person, I'm perfectly happy for the Democratic Party primary voters to reduce the ideological diversity of the party, through primaries to get rid of people who don't support LGBT rights. Some times parties need to cut of the deadwood.

[Blair]

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/11/dan-lipinski-illinois-primary-democrats-453618

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[Blair]

Imo these attacks are so hamed fisted they must be from some useless third party group that hopefully has no experience in political campaigning.

[Blair]

It's such an Atlas move to endorse someone based on how you think the race will be perceived by the Democrat party at large.

Stop being commentators, and act like voters ffs. If you're a pro-life Democrat vote for Dan. If you're a pro-choice progressive vote for Newman.

[Blair]

A shame about the result but it being this close does at least partly show (as I said in January) that a good chunk of Lipinski district wants something different. To get 49% against a what six term incumbent is impressive; in a race in this close there’s nothing much you can do.

Hopefully Dan will now understand he needs the be on his toes a bit more (he said he’d vote for the Dream Act).

I saw some people attack Newman for being too pro choice; it’s worth noting she needed the money/energy early on from women’s groups to get off the ground. It was essentially the rocket fuel that got her the Sanders\Gillibrand\union endorsements. I saw people saying Susan’s list saved Lipinski but tbh they probably just offset his losses to other outside groups.

The campaign has given him a bloody nose, and despite predictions it hasn’t killed the Democratic Party. Primaries like this are healthy.

[Blair]

Even a broad church needs to have walls.