Americans by a nearly 20 point margin disapprove of Palestinian protests on campuses

[jojoju1998]

Atheists backing Palestine. Interesting.

[jojoju1998]

To the Zionists, anyone that dares to criticize the state of Israel. Israel is off-limits in American political discourse, as you'd be label an antisemite by the people backing the genocide in Gaza. Even when the person in question doing the criticism is Jewish.

Pretty much, which is why they’re especially aggressive towards Jews who support the protesters cause, which makes it harder for them to empty the “antisemitism” cause.

They resort to question the person religion on the first opportunity, which is actual antisemitism but the “good” one that can be weaponized for a “greater cause” in the way they rationalize it, making it acceptable for them.

The old and uneducated are most opposed along with Jewish people.

Who would’ve guessed this forum would be proud to stand with the core Trumpist base? I did. Liberals and Conservatives are words for the exact same thing, only under different aesthetics.

The old and uneducated are most opposed along with Jewish people.

The " uneducated " part seems to be a inaccurate assessement. According to the poll, 47 percent of non college educated people in America oppose the protests. College educated people ? 48 percent. Not a discernible difference at all. Non College educated people do have a larger percentage of unsure. At 29 percent.

[jojoju1998]

Very encouraging generational split here. The arc of the moral universe is long etc. etc.

The same poll shows that 43 percent of young people think the college response to the protests are either just about right or not harsh enough.

[jojoju1998]

To the Zionists, anyone that dares to criticize the state of Israel. Israel is off-limits in American political discourse, as you'd be label an antisemite by the people backing the genocide in Gaza. Even when the person in question doing the criticism is Jewish.

Pretty much, which is why they’re especially aggressive towards Jews who support the protesters cause, which makes it harder for them to empty the “antisemitism” cause.

They resort to question the person religion on the first opportunity, which is actual antisemitism but the “good” one that can be weaponized for a “greater cause” in the way they rationalize it, making it acceptable for them.

When Naomi Klein made her powerful speech two weeks back on how Jewish people should have an exodus from Zionism that rapid-Zionist crowd attacked her, said she was a self-hating Jew for saying we should walk back from Israel. They have no qualms about selfish Evangelicals speaking up for their cause, even while their support for Israel is self-centered on the rapture that will punish the Jewish people in the end times, a far more anti-semitic sentiment than counterarguements from actual Jewish people.

People forget the vast majority of Jewish people oppose Zionism through much of the 20th century. It was a fringe movement of bourgeois Ashkenazi Jews who were hostile to the practices of Judaism and were secularists, even while proclaiming God gave them the promised land in the Middle East, an oxymoron if you self-identify as atheist, as David Ben-Gurion and Theodore Herzl did.
They saw practicing Jewish people of faith as being weak-minded and inferior to their perception of how Jews should stand in the world that is hostile to their existence.

Secular, Left leaning, socialist/marxist leaning Zionists. Which is ironic today, since zionism is seen today as a right wing movement, but you mention Ben Gurion. The guy was a self proclaimed Leftist. He had sympathies for Vladmir Lenin, and was part of many socialist movements in Europe and in the Middle East. Israel's dominant political party for the first 20-30 years or so was the labour party, and it only started to shift as neoliberalism came in, and Israel shifted to the US more.


Remember, there isn't one Zionism. There are many strands of it. Of course, there was the Labour Zionism as I mentioned. But there's also Liberal Zionism as well, the first dominant strand in the first 20 years of the zionist movement, represented by people such as Theodore Herzel.



The dominant strand of Zionism we have seen to day is Revionist Zionism, represented by people such as Ze'ev Jabotinsky, and this strand has direct connections to Benjiamin Nethenyahu and the Likud Party.

[jojoju1998]

People forget the vast majority of Jewish people oppose Zionism through much of the 20th century.

You raise an interesting point here which is that people are still debating Zionism like it's the 1920s and it's a theory instead of the reality, which is that any early ideas about it were swamped by the unwilling arrival of millions of Jews who were ethnically cleansed from their homes in the Arab world, Iran, and Eastern Europe without ever advocating for Zionism. And now Israel is the only home they and their children and grandchildren have, and people are still debating old ideas like Max Nordau is directing the IDF and that's who matters.

Perhaps make a better effort to understand the perspective of an Israeli Jew whose grandparents were living peacefully in Baghdad, Yemen, Egypt, Algeria until the state or their neighbors showed up with a gun and took away everything they owned, including their homes. Do you think they feel like colonizers?

Also as I mentioned, there's multiple strands of Zionism. Zionism is not just one monolithic ideology. The zionism we see today is Revisionist Zionism, which is far more economically right wing, and socially right wing, and far more liekly to use military action to create " greater israel ". People like Ze'ev Jabotinsky. And this strand as I said, has direct connections to Benjamin Nethenyahu and the Likud Party.


But, in the past we had far more left leaning, or least liberal leaning strands. Labour Zionism ( which was the dominant ideology in Israel up until the 1970s ). Liberal Zionism ( the first dominant strand in the Zionist movement.) And others.

[jojoju1998]

Israel's dominant political party for the first 20-30 years or so was the labour party, and it only started to shift as neoliberalism came in, and Israel shifted to the US more.

Menachem Begin is the worst electoral choice Israel ever made, and Bibi is a close second.

Revionist Zionism is a cancer and a curse on Israeli political life, and I hope the Israeli Left can revive itself.