Is this a justifiable reason to support LGBT normality as a Christian? (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 02, 2024, 08:34:48 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Discussion
  Religion & Philosophy (Moderator: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.)
  Is this a justifiable reason to support LGBT normality as a Christian? (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Is this a justifiable reason to support LGBT normality as a Christian?  (Read 2725 times)
Chunk Yogurt for President!
CELTICEMPIRE
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,234
Georgia


« on: October 31, 2017, 02:03:29 PM »

What do you say about the Bible verses that contradict your position?
Logged
Chunk Yogurt for President!
CELTICEMPIRE
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,234
Georgia


« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 11:57:17 AM »

This is the way I look at it:

The New Testament condemns homosexual behavior.  This was never controversial among Christians until the rapidly secularizing culture began to accept such behavior.  Increased tolerance of homosexual sex is correlated strongly with increased secularism.  This is not controversial among Christians who live in countries where there isn't cultural tolerance for homosexuality.  In Africa and Asia, Christians continue to believe what the Bible has always taught on the subject.  This leads me to believe that pro-SSM Christians are compromising with the culture.

Here's another thing to consider:

Christianity was born into the Roman Empire, an empire that mostly tolerated homosexuality and a whole host of other sins (abortion, infanticide, gladiatorial games just to name a few).  By AD 400 these things were no longer tolerated.  Early Christians understood all these things to be immoral.  Now that the West is becoming less and less religious, abortion and homosexuality (and in some cases, euthanasia of infants) are becoming more and more tolerated. 
Logged
Chunk Yogurt for President!
CELTICEMPIRE
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,234
Georgia


« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 06:49:18 PM »

Arsenokoitai means something along the lines of men sleeping together (its a compound of men and bed).

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Romans 1:27

This passage seems to be talking about men and women abandoning marriage in order to pursue homosexual relations.  I can't get anything else out of it.
Logged
Chunk Yogurt for President!
CELTICEMPIRE
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,234
Georgia


« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 06:50:59 PM »

This is the way I look at it:

The New Testament condemns homosexual behavior.  This was never controversial among Christians until the rapidly secularizing culture began to accept such behavior.  Increased tolerance of homosexual sex is correlated strongly with increased secularism.  This is not controversial among Christians who live in countries where there isn't cultural tolerance for homosexuality.  In Africa and Asia, Christians continue to believe what the Bible has always taught on the subject.  This leads me to believe that pro-SSM Christians are compromising with the culture.

Here's another thing to consider:

Christianity was born into the Roman Empire, an empire that mostly tolerated homosexuality and a whole host of other sins (abortion, infanticide, gladiatorial games just to name a few).  By AD 400 these things were no longer tolerated.  Early Christians understood all these things to be immoral.  Now that the West is becoming less and less religious, abortion and homosexuality (and in some cases, euthanasia of infants) are becoming more and more tolerated. 
I think Kingpoleon gave a pretty good analysis above.

It is also incredibly disingenuous to single out pro-SSM Christians for "compromising with the culture" given, well, all of church history.

Conservative Christians compromise with the culture too, I've called out Conservative Christians for not following "Blessed are the peacemakers."
Logged
Chunk Yogurt for President!
CELTICEMPIRE
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,234
Georgia


« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 09:51:41 PM »

Arsenokoitai means something along the lines of men sleeping together (its a compound of men and bed).

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Romans 1:27

This passage seems to be talking about men and women abandoning marriage in order to pursue homosexual relations.  I can't get anything else out of it.

That passage refers to acts of homosexual sex in temple idol worship, not all gay people as a whole.  This is pretty clear when it's put into context:

Romans 1:22-25 - Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.  They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.


It was common for male and female shrine prostitutes to be the receiver of seed for the idols, and women were also used as vessels for the idol worshiping men.  And note that they were inflamed with lust for one another, which does not describe loving committed relationships.

I think that's really a stretch.  If this was simply a reference to temple prostitution, then why are men committing shameful acts with other men singled out?  Why doesn't it mention men committing shameful acts with female temple prostitutes?

It seems clear that this means that God gave them over to sinful desires (in this particular case, homosexual behaviors) because they abandoned God.  Today, people in North America and Europe are increasingly turning away from God, and we are seeing increased acceptance of homosexual behavior as a result.

Once Christians became a majority in Europe, homosexuality was unanimously considered immoral until the secularization of society in the 20th century.  Connect the dots.
Logged
Chunk Yogurt for President!
CELTICEMPIRE
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,234
Georgia


« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2017, 12:37:36 PM »

Concept of gay and straight didn't exist at the time-exactly, Paul condemns having sex with the same sex and he condemns it for everyone.  The early Christians, who understood the Ancient Greek text better than any of us ever could, universally understood this.  While much of ancient Greek and Roman homosexuality was child molestation, not all of it was.  Same-sex marriages were occasionally performed (Nero was involved in same-sex weddings).  Nero was known to have relationships with men, both adults and children.  Elagabalus played the part of the bride in a marriage to another man.  There is also the story of Hadrian and his male lover.  To say that nothing resembling modern homosexuality existed in ancient times is inaccurate.  To say that God only put a condemnation of homosexual relations in the Bible because such relations were exploitative implies that God couldn't have foreseen modern homosexual relations.

The text says that natural relations for men are with women, and states that the men abandoned relations with women for relations with the same gender.  There is no mention of prostitutes.  There is no mention of young boys.  It refers to men having sex with men, not boys.  It also said that the women were doing the same thing that the men were.  Were women seeking out prostitutes?  It says Even their women, implying that what the women were doing was typically a male vice.  And homosexuality certainly seems to have been more common among men than it was among women in ancient times.

Furthermore, look at 1 Corinthians 6:9-10:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

ἀρσενοκοῖται means men having sex with men.  In the Greek translation of Leviticus (which Paul almost certainly had access to), the same word is used in the condemnation of homosexual relations.  With all this in mind, I can't come to any other conclusion than that the Bible opposes homosexual relations.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.026 seconds with 11 queries.