Are the Democrats failing or doing well as an opposition? (user search)
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  Are the Democrats failing or doing well as an opposition? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Are the Democrats failing or doing well as an opposition?  (Read 2679 times)
Mr. Smith
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« on: October 20, 2017, 10:48:43 PM »

Relatively well.  Much faster performance than the GOP at this point 8 years ago, much better than where they were in 2005 at this point.

Honestly you'd have to go back to before '94 to find the last time they were even close to this good.

It's frustrating, but still understandable...2018, that's a different story.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2017, 06:27:22 AM »

Democrats need to offer more than "we're against everything Trump does" if they want to win.

That's funny, because that strategy worked perfectly for the Republicans in 2010 if you just replace "Trump" with "Obama." And Obama had a much stronger mandate than Trump to begin with, soooo...

But according to by-election results it's not working for Democrats.

Wasn't working for the GOP at this point either.

Wasn't until Scott Brown that there was any credibility, and even then that was kinda a perfect storm.

You certainly didn't see results like Rob Quist or Thompson or archie parnell, or yes, Jon Ossoff back then.

it's only "not working" if the midterms themselves fail.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2017, 01:26:19 PM »

A lot of Democratic "victories" in the age of Trump have occurred more because of reality than because of their action.  The blocking of Obamacare Repeal is the best example.  The Republicans talked unity on the issue when they were 100% certain that Obama would veto any repeal measure, but there were always a few Republicans in the Senate that knew that their constituents would not approve of repeal; enough of them were benefiting and would be grossly inconvenienced if it were repealed.  This wasn't so much something the Democrats did as something reality, itself did. 

You can say that there was more unity around saving the AHCA amongst Democrats then there had been, and you would be correct.  Since every Democrat in the Senate who was there in 2009 voted for AHCA, it would be lame if one changed their mind.  But they didn't; even Manchin (the most likely switcher) Heitkamp, and McCaskill stood firm. 

The Democrats' smoothest move was making the deal with Trump to extend the debt ceiling.  This was a real victory; the Freedom Caucus loonbags would have no problem voting to starve out the government to get there way, even with a Republican President.  (I think Trump, in his heart of heats, knows that the Freedom Caucus folks aren't his friends, but he knows that they're Republicans and the same folks that elected him elected them.)   They would be in a better position if they can continue to make deals with Trump on areas where they agree.  This, however, doesn't seem to be the inclination of most Democrats; they would rather rant than accomplish. 

This is the real problem with "The Resistance"; they are preoccupied with ranting over issues folks that NEED the Democratic Party to assert itself don't care about.  Gotcha! issues like Russia, boorish behavior decades ago, etc, that folks repeatedly see as ending up as tempests in teapots.  This will be the reason Democrats disappoint in the midterms.

This was said in 2009 with the GOP when they were whining about The War on Christmas and birtherism as "gotchas".

And yet 2010 was a landslide.
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Mr. Smith
MormDem
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 33,429
United States


« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2017, 02:22:14 PM »

A lot of Democratic "victories" in the age of Trump have occurred more because of reality than because of their action.  The blocking of Obamacare Repeal is the best example.  The Republicans talked unity on the issue when they were 100% certain that Obama would veto any repeal measure, but there were always a few Republicans in the Senate that knew that their constituents would not approve of repeal; enough of them were benefiting and would be grossly inconvenienced if it were repealed.  This wasn't so much something the Democrats did as something reality, itself did. 

You can say that there was more unity around saving the AHCA amongst Democrats then there had been, and you would be correct.  Since every Democrat in the Senate who was there in 2009 voted for AHCA, it would be lame if one changed their mind.  But they didn't; even Manchin (the most likely switcher) Heitkamp, and McCaskill stood firm. 

The Democrats' smoothest move was making the deal with Trump to extend the debt ceiling.  This was a real victory; the Freedom Caucus loonbags would have no problem voting to starve out the government to get there way, even with a Republican President.  (I think Trump, in his heart of heats, knows that the Freedom Caucus folks aren't his friends, but he knows that they're Republicans and the same folks that elected him elected them.)   They would be in a better position if they can continue to make deals with Trump on areas where they agree.  This, however, doesn't seem to be the inclination of most Democrats; they would rather rant than accomplish. 

This is the real problem with "The Resistance"; they are preoccupied with ranting over issues folks that NEED the Democratic Party to assert itself don't care about.  Gotcha! issues like Russia, boorish behavior decades ago, etc, that folks repeatedly see as ending up as tempests in teapots.  This will be the reason Democrats disappoint in the midterms.

This was said in 2009 with the GOP when they were whining about The War on Christmas and birtherism as "gotchas".

And yet 2010 was a landslide.

The 2010 landslide occurred because of fear and loathing over Obamacare.

There's something to the idea that folks approved ACHA before reading it.  Its advocates were unable to dispel the fears about Death Panels and skyrocketing rates, and "the government getting between you and your doctor", not being able to keep your current plan (true in some cases), not being able to keep your doctor (an overrated benefit; how many folks here know the name of the last doctor they saw?). 

The minute you go on defense in politics, you're finished.  The Democrats went on defense, or ran away from Obamacare.  They rammed through an historic healthcare bill, and then some wanted to distance themselves from it, or couldn't defend the "Death Panels" drivel. 

And none of that happened until 2010.

Something of the sort will happen between now and 2018 midterms to capitalize on. Maybe even Trumpcare's failures again will do it.

The question is whether it is capitalized on to the fullest or whether the opportunity is squandered.
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