Impeachment Megathread Part 3

[OSR stands with Israel]

Why don’t Democrat’s instead push to give John Roberts control of the trial like a normal judge does in any other trial .


That would be much harder to decline

[OSR stands with Israel]

Putting on my MAGA hat here for just a moment (yes, I have actually do have one. No, don't ask me why):

What I think he means is that "we (the defense) has substance, they (the House Managers) don't", not necessarily that "we have all of these incriminating documents that we don't want to them to have."  To my untrained ear, it's just Trump doing that thing where he just tries to fill the air with the sound of his own voice by putting words together.  

Nope. Thanks for playing, but the entire 21st Century's quota of "what he really meant was" has already been used up and there is no more available. When Benedict Donald incriminates himself, in public, again, it stands of its own.

I don’t think you have any credibility on this given the fact that you would supported  impeaching Trump on the same charges that would have gotten Hillary impeached as well and then later believed Trump should have been impeached for collusion with Russia and screamed at people who disagreed with you on it . You are the epitome of the boy who cried wolf on here

[OSR stands with Israel]

Sekulow is killing it.

Just a darling performance.

Can you change your screen name , as you are nothing like Mitt Romney on this issue and many others

[OSR stands with Israel]

If Trump didnt have a R next to his name , would you guys still be defending him. Please dont answer with , but the Democrats then would defend him because while many would, that isn't a defense for committing impeachable actions.

The fact is asking a foreign government to investigate your political opponents is illegal whether there was a quid quo pro or not so Trump did abuse his power .


Now you can make an argument other presidents have done this just secretly and while yes they may have, none of them publically announced on live TV that they were doing it like Trump did so he is in his mess because of his own stupidity and yes stupidity can get you in more trouble and thats not unusual at all.

[OSR stands with Israel]

If Trump didnt have a R next to his name , would you guys still be defending him. Please dont answer with , but the Democrats then would defend him because while many would, that isn't a defense for committing impeachable actions.

The fact is asking a foreign government to investigate your political opponents is illegal whether there was a quid quo pro or not so Trump did abuse his power .


Now you can make an argument other presidents have done this just secretly and while yes they may have, none of them publically announced on live TV that they were doing it like Trump did so he is in his mess because of his own stupidity and yes stupidity can get you in more trouble and thats not unusual at all.

It’s frustrating that the democrats have numerous examples be it Franken, Weiner, giving back the Weinstein donations were they showed or attempted to show they aren’t as cynical as republicans but it doesn’t matter and people like 2016 or Russian Bear still push this narrative that if a dem did what Trump did that the Dems would act the same way

Well distancing youself from someone in Congress is easier, the GOP stripped Steve King of all his committees. If Trump was a D , I think the vast majority Dem Senators would feel they have no choice but to defend him thanks to how partisan this nation is. 85% of the nation only cares about party loyalty and nothing else and that is the main problem not that politician are less honorable than they were 40 years ago.


Anyway what I am saying that is not a defense for Trump at all and doing so just makes the problem worse. Trump should be impeached because of his actions and I will not justify his actions with the dumb the other side would defend him to if he was a D.

[OSR stands with Israel]

If Trump didnt have a R next to his name , would you guys still be defending him. Please dont answer with , but the Democrats then would defend him because while many would, that isn't a defense for committing impeachable actions.

The fact is asking a foreign government to investigate your political opponents is illegal whether there was a quid quo pro or not so Trump did abuse his power .


Now you can make an argument other presidents have done this just secretly and while yes they may have, none of them publically announced on live TV that they were doing it like Trump did so he is in his mess because of his own stupidity and yes stupidity can get you in more trouble and thats not unusual at all.

It’s frustrating that the democrats have numerous examples be it Franken, Weiner, giving back the Weinstein donations were they showed or attempted to show they aren’t as cynical as republicans but it doesn’t matter and people like 2016 or Russian Bear still push this narrative that if a dem did what Trump did that the Dems would act the same way

Well distancing youself from someone in Congress is easier, the GOP stripped Steve King of all his committees. If Trump was a D , I think the vast majority Dem Senators would feel they have no choice but to defend him thanks to how partisan this nation is. 85% of the nation only cares about party loyalty and nothing else and that is the main problem not that politician are less honorable than they were 40 years ago.


Anyway what I am saying that is not a defense for Trump at all and doing so just makes the problem worse. Trump should be impeached because of his actions and I will not justify his actions with the dumb the other side would defend him to if he was a D.

I agree on the analysis that the country is too partisan, but I doubt Democrats would have given Obama a free pass if he bribed a foreign government to launch announce an investigation into Mitt Romney in early 2012. Especially if there was no evidence of any wrongdoings by Romney and if Obama only demanded an announcement rather than an actual and thorough investigation. Heck, I even think Dubya would have faced more trouble from Republicans back then if he did so.

The problem is Trump's hardcore base that sticks with him no matter what. These guys live in a bubble, and they will primary any Republican out who isn't in line with their God Emperor. It's no longer tolerater to oppose your parties president. In earlier times, senators and congressmen were often more popular than the president in their state/district, which required the president to play nice with them. Today, it's vise versa. And it isn't healthy, especially with someone like Trump.

Well I think one of the reason for that is back then like what you said there were many Congressman and Senators (even in 2012) which were in states or districts that were not fans of President Obama while today thanks to polarization there are very few opposite party Senators/Representatives left which makes it almost impossible to go against your President especially with the ways the President can push out their message now.

Back in the day there was no social media so it was much harder for the President to control the narrative while now its very easy for the President to do so. Even in 2012 Social Media wasnt anywhere near as influential as it is now so if Trump was President then he almost certainly would get at least 60 senators to vote to remove him.

[OSR stands with Israel]

If Trump didnt have a R next to his name , would you guys still be defending him. Please dont answer with , but the Democrats then would defend him because while many would, that isn't a defense for committing impeachable actions.

The fact is asking a foreign government to investigate your political opponents is illegal whether there was a quid quo pro or not so Trump did abuse his power .


Now you can make an argument other presidents have done this just secretly and while yes they may have, none of them publically announced on live TV that they were doing it like Trump did so he is in his mess because of his own stupidity and yes stupidity can get you in more trouble and thats not unusual at all.

It’s frustrating that the democrats have numerous examples be it Franken, Weiner, giving back the Weinstein donations were they showed or attempted to show they aren’t as cynical as republicans but it doesn’t matter and people like 2016 or Russian Bear still push this narrative that if a dem did what Trump did that the Dems would act the same way

Well distancing youself from someone in Congress is easier, the GOP stripped Steve King of all his committees. If Trump was a D , I think the vast majority Dem Senators would feel they have no choice but to defend him thanks to how partisan this nation is. 85% of the nation only cares about party loyalty and nothing else and that is the main problem not that politician are less honorable than they were 40 years ago.


Anyway what I am saying that is not a defense for Trump at all and doing so just makes the problem worse. Trump should be impeached because of his actions and I will not justify his actions with the dumb the other side would defend him to if he was a D.

The Problem I have with these so called "Centrist Republicans" is this: GOP Senators need Trumps Base to win Re-Election. If they would vote to convict Trump Democrats would have Reagan like 1980 Landslide this November because the loyal Trump Base would stay home and that's what Schumer & his cohorts want. I say: Don't give them that!

Ok but this isnt an argument about why or why not  Trump is innocent and what your describing is the problem with American politics. For Base voters, Partisan loyalty trumps everything else and that is why American politics is in such bad shape now.

[OSR stands with Israel]

This is all really a good example of one way the federal government is broken. There is no effective way to hold a wayward presidential accountable. At best, you can deny them major legislative accomplishments, but even that has limits, given the power of the executive branch. If they want to engage in flagrant corruption, there is little anyone can do about it, no matter how brazen it is. The fact is, politicians care more about their jobs and will fall in line if the party base backs the president, and they are the easiest group of people of all for the president to con.

Whole system needs to be burned down and redone, imo

Its not the system's problem at all its polarization , as When a President has an approval rating of 40%+ its gonna be impossible to remove them from office.

Nixon's on the other hand's approvals were in the mid 20s when he was forced to resign(and if he didnt resign it may have been in the teens by the time of the trial).

[OSR stands with Israel]

There may be a few surprise votes on Article II. There will be a future Dem president who refuses to comply with subpoenas. Do they really want to set the precedent that this is an impeachable offense?

He should not be convicted on Article II, as all he did was try to stall those subpoenas out in court and the court hadnt ruled on anything yet. If the court had ruled that he had to comply and he didnt then it would be impeachable.


Article I yes he should be convicted on because asking a foreign goverment to investigate your political opponents is illegal so he did Abuse his power

[OSR stands with Israel]

Top 5 presidential actions most deserving of impeachment and removal:

1. Trail of Tears
2. Withholding aid from Ukraine in exchange for a personal favor
3. Watergate
4. Teapot Dome scandal
5. Iran-Contra

No one is going to be surprised when Trump isn't removed, given our nation's history with these mega scandals.

Replace Iran-Conta with Andrew Johnson sabotaging reconstruction efforts.   What Reagan did with Iran Contra wasnt any worse than what multiple Presidents did during the cold war era of using the CIA to go around Congressional Oversight on FP.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Romney should have told Tillis or Ernst to vote for Witnesses or he would personally campaign for a third-party candidate in the senate race. The filing deadline for the primaries seems to have passed for those races so it may have worked.

Choosing Alexander as the Senator to Convince was a mistake as there was no leverage to be used against him.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Hopefully now with Lamar finally deciding to show some backbone this sham show trial will end and the President can be left alone to run the country and continue to deal with the key issue of immigration.

Maybe Trump should have used his political capital to deal with that issue after he was inaugurated, instead of spend all of it on trying to repeal Obamacare with a bill that was unpopular with Republican Voters as well.


 

[OSR stands with Israel]

So I want to ask something of the Republicans on this board, not folks like 2016 who are completely lost to partisanship, but you blue and brown avatars who feel uncomfortable with this, and wish you could stop it.  I am not going to tell you to vote straight-blue in 2020.  But at least consider splitting your vote.  Maybe vote for Trump but also vote for a Democrat in congress so you can balance out Trump's abuses of power.  Maybe vote for an independent Bloomberg instead of Trump.  I assure you, if Democrats win back control due to your vote, nothing we do will be anywhere near as damaging to this country as four more years of this regime at its current unchecked strength.  Most likely we won't get a damn thing done, just like the two years before Trump.  You won't have that guilt on your conscience.

But if you vote straight-R on your ticket, and Trump and the Republicans take complete power in this country, I hate to think where we'll be in four years.  And I know you do too.  

I will vote for Biden or Bloomberg in 2020 and even if Bernie is the nominee I will not vote for Trump and instead write-in John Kasich or Mitt Romney.

For Senate I will vote for the Republican candidate as Jeff Merkely is one of my most disliked senators


I will NOT vote for Trump though

[OSR stands with Israel]

Hopefully now with Lamar finally deciding to show some backbone this sham show trial will end and the President can be left alone to run the country and continue to deal with the key issue of immigration.

Maybe Trump should have used his political capital to deal with that issue after he was inaugurated, instead of spend all of it on trying to repeal Obamacare with a bill that was unpopular with Republican Voters as well.


 

He has reduced migration though to 700,000 in 2017-18 from 1 million in 2016-17 and even further to 600,000 in 2018-19, look at the cuts to the refugee program, the reduction in migration has helped constrict the labour supply and push up wages for less skilled workers.

Where is the wall like he promised, where is solving the problem of illegal immgration like he promised. Oh right he did nothing on it because he is more interested in using it as a wedge issue politically rather than actually doing anything on those issues

[OSR stands with Israel]

Hopefully now with Lamar finally deciding to show some backbone this sham show trial will end and the President can be left alone to run the country and continue to deal with the key issue of immigration.

Maybe Trump should have used his political capital to deal with that issue after he was inaugurated, instead of spend all of it on trying to repeal Obamacare with a bill that was unpopular with Republican Voters as well.


 

He has reduced migration though to 700,000 in 2017-18 from 1 million in 2016-17 and even further to 600,000 in 2018-19, look at the cuts to the refugee program, the reduction in migration has helped constrict the labour supply and push up wages for less skilled workers.

Where is the wall like he promised, where is solving the problem of illegal immgration like he promised. Oh right he did nothing on it because he is more interested in using it as a wedge issue politically rather than actually doing anything on those issues

People voted for Trump to cut immigration, the wall etc was about symbolism and what it represented, immigration has fallen under Trump, that’s why people voted for him.

Has he done anything to solve the problem of Illegal Immigration, the answer is no. Oh and now the wall is symbolism , lol stop making excuses.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Hopefully now with Lamar finally deciding to show some backbone this sham show trial will end and the President can be left alone to run the country and continue to deal with the key issue of immigration.

Maybe Trump should have used his political capital to deal with that issue after he was inaugurated, instead of spend all of it on trying to repeal Obamacare with a bill that was unpopular with Republican Voters as well.


 

He has reduced migration though to 700,000 in 2017-18 from 1 million in 2016-17 and even further to 600,000 in 2018-19, look at the cuts to the refugee program, the reduction in migration has helped constrict the labour supply and push up wages for less skilled workers.

President Obama did Immigration vs his Pen bypassing Congress entirely which was the most dangerous thing EVER.

I'm not a partisan hack like many people think. I definitly would support People like Nikki Haley or Marco Rubio in 2024.

If Trump gets defeated this year Haley will probably the shining light Republicans will look up to and she can unite the Republican Party.

I just want completely undo all the things that a certain Barack Hussein Obama did. He enacted the most dangerous Legislations EVER in this Country like ObamaCare, Dodd-Frank, etc.

- That 2014 Order was overturned by the courts in 2016

- Why not oppose Trump for 2020 and support Republicans in the Senate

- Also ObamaCare was basically Romneycare

[OSR stands with Israel]

By the way Trump promised to reinistate Glass-Stegall which was more liberal than Dodd-Frank lol: https://fortune.com/2017/03/20/donald-trump-glass-steagall/

[OSR stands with Israel]

By the way Trump promised to reinistate Glass-Stegall which was more liberal than Dodd-Frank lol: https://fortune.com/2017/03/20/donald-trump-glass-steagall/

His promises aren't worth jack sh**t.

I know he wasnt gonna go with it but I was saying that Trump wasnt elected to repeal Dodd-Frank just the opposite

[OSR stands with Israel]

The Democats’ breakfast today: Humble pie, sour grapes, and egg on their face. Scrumptious. Acquit 45!

Change your screen name

[OSR stands with Israel]

Romney should have told Tillis or Ernst to vote for Witnesses or he would personally campaign for a third-party candidate in the senate race. The filing deadline for the primaries seems to have passed for those races so it may have worked.

Lmao, I’m sure the thought of Mitt Romney coming to IA and NC and endorsing random nobodies for Senate has Tillis and especially Ernst quaking in their boots.

Maybe not for Ernst but absolutely for Tillis as even if a third party gets 2-3 percent of the vote , he probably would lose

[OSR stands with Israel]

I was talking to my dad about this and he said you never were gonna get a fair impeachment trial when so much of the country still supports Trump . He said Nixon only went cause his approvals were in the 20s and dropping by the day .

Then he said it might not be the brave decision to do , or honorable but then he said it’s true in real life too when he said most people in general will not choose to uphold their principles over their careers and he said so of course the vast majority of politicians will be like that cause that’s how people are in general .

He said that’s unfortunate but that’s the way how the world works and he said the only way to get more honorable politicians is for polarization to reduce back to where it was till the early 90s. He said as long as you have almost 90% of voters who vote the same way in every federal election no matter what then nothing will change .


He basically said we the people deserve most of the blame for our politics today not the politicians and he said until we recognize that , things will only get worse



I pretty much agree 100%

[OSR stands with Israel]

I was talking to my dad about this and he said you never were gonna get a fair impeachment trial when so much of the country still supports Trump . He said Nixon only went cause his approvals were in the 20s and dropping by the day .

Then he said it might not be the brave decision to do , or honorable but then he said it’s true in real life too when he said most people in general will not choose to uphold their principles over their careers and he said so of course the vast majority of politicians will be like that cause that’s how people are in general .

He said that’s unfortunate but that’s the way how the world works and he said the only way to get more honorable politicians is for polarization to reduce back to where it was till the early 90s. He said as long as you have almost 90% of voters who vote the same way in every federal election no matter what then nothing will change .

He basically said we the people deserve most of the blame for our politics today not the politicians and he said until we recognize that , things will only get worse

I pretty much agree 100%

That is a very good analysis.

Tell your Dad he is spot on. You only have to witness the bitterness and the fervent oppositional stalking of members of this forum to realise he has a strong case.

Some people react quite violently to Republican viewpoints. That is not the fault of Republican politicians.

Bullcrap. OSR has Republican views but he isn’t called out like you because he 1) doesn’t have racist immigration views and 2) isn’t a massive troll who engages in bad faith arguments like you have throughout this thread

It's pretty rich that a guy who has a deliberately anti-white signature is lecturing people on racism.  Or is insulting white folks as a group OK around here.

Perhaps the mods will now moderate your signature.  If this were aimed at literally any other racial or ethnic group, it would be deleted by the mods by now, and rightly so.

Not really , SirWoodbury literally quoted Hitler in his signature and it wasn’t moderated by the mods at all , he changed it cause of backlash from posters on here not cause of moderators .


Also Hindsight isn’t being serious at all with his signature so it’s not racist . If he was being serious yes it would be , but he isn’t . Bill Maher and other comedians make these types of jokes about all types of racial and ethnic groups and he is still liked by those groups cause they know he’s just joking .

[OSR stands with Israel]

What’s Mittens going to do?

Hopefully, announce a third party run for President

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://mobile.twitter.com/frankthorp/status/1225080178998681600?s=20

Announce a third party run Mitt

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://mobile.twitter.com/frankthorp/status/1225080178998681600?s=20

Announce a third party run Mitt

You're really going for the ending that no one ever gets in this choose-your-own-adventure book, aren't you?

It really doesn’t matter at this point which way he votes at all because it’s not gonna change a thing.

What will change a thing is if he announces a third party run for president of the United States as that will have huge effects in 2020 and then force the GOP to appeal to those Romney voters the same way they had to appeal to Perot Voters if they ever are gonna unite the party and win an election again