Mueller report thread - Mueller testimony July 24

[136or142]

If Mueller didn't find evidence of collusion by the Trump campaign, then I for one accept that the evidence isn't there.  It sounds like the question of obstruction may be less clear; the letter says that Mueller laid out the evidence for it, and Barr has deemed it insufficient to charge.  I'm sure Congress will look into that further.  But I'm willing to acknowledge that at least the collusion narrative is now over.

It should also be noted that Mueller did find solid evidence of Russian interference in the election.

Just out of curiosity, would any of those on the right who've been complaining about Mueller's bias now care to retract those statements?

Mueller clearly didn't report that he didn't find evidence.  It seems reasonable to conclude (though reasonable people could conclude otherwise as well) that Mueller couldn't find *proof* of a 'quid pro quo.' 

My understanding is that this is extremely difficult for prosecutors to do.

Essentially, for wealthy or powerful people anyway, bribery is basically legal.

That's my understanding anyway.

[136or142]

This was always going to be a bit of a letdown. I’m just glad it’s over with so everyone can just move on.

Let's wait to see what the report says.  Impeachment and conviction is a political act, not a legal one.

[136or142]

This is going to change no one’s vote either way in an election that’s over a year and a half away.

We still have a year and a half of House Committee investigations on the Orange Clown, his son, and others related issues. The link of trump to Russia will not go away. At the very least, it will tease trump on his continuation to talk and Tweet about it, which will keep the status quo of making him look like the childish, narcissistic psychopath that he is. This will continue to hurt him up until election day 2020.

Likely a much more accurate thread title.

[136or142]

Perhaps Dmeocrats can attack Trump on things that actually are real, like his support for keeping the minimum wage as low as possible?

Maybe we should wait to see what's in the report first, rather than just taking the word of a Trump employee.

[136or142]

Trump has definitely won the 'framing game.'  The media is repeatedly saying 'no evidence' of collusion found.  But, that's not what the Mueller report states.  William Barr quotes from the Mueller report in his summary:

As the report states: “[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

Is that 'no evidence', 'no proof' or somewhere in between?  It certainly doesn't sound like 'no evidence' to me.  "Did not establish" sounds like there was no concrete proof or 'smoking gun.' 

Of course, I'm biased on this just as the idiot Trump cultists are biased, however, the summary at no time uses the phrase 'no evidence.'

[136or142]

Trump has definitely won the 'framing game.'  The media is repeatedly saying 'no evidence' of collusion found.  But, that's not what the Mueller report states.  William Barr quotes from the Mueller report in his summary:

As the report states: “[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

Is that 'no evidence', 'no proof' or somewhere in between?  It certainly doesn't sound like 'no evidence' to me.  "Did not establish" sounds like there was no concrete proof or 'smoking gun.' 

Of course, I'm biased on this just as the idiot Trump cultists are biased, however, the summary at no time uses the phrase 'no evidence.'

There is not enough evidence to conclude that there is probable cause that Trump, or anyone in the Trump Administration, committed a crime.  That's a fact, according to even Mueller.  If that were the case, Trump could have been named by Mueller as an unindicted co-conspirator.  Nixon was so named in the indictments of Haldeman and Ehrlichmann, long before the "Smoking Gun" of the release of the actual tapes. 

As for the 2020 GE, have at it!  That's what General Elections are for.  If people wish to make a political case against Trump on the campaign trail, well, fine and good!  That's what the political process is about.  But stop the advocacy of issue positions that suggest that Trump is Below the Law.  He's not Below the Law any more than he's Above the Law, but the Echo Chamber is very much in denial of that.  (Although I have been encouraged by a few cracks on that particular point, which is a good thing.)

No proof of a crime on the matter of conspiracy. Mueller had no opinion on obstruction of justice, and other matters have been handed off to other prosecutors.

[136or142]

Trump has definitely won the 'framing game.'  The media is repeatedly saying 'no evidence' of collusion found.  But, that's not what the Mueller report states.  William Barr quotes from the Mueller report in his summary:

As the report states: “[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

Is that 'no evidence', 'no proof' or somewhere in between?  It certainly doesn't sound like 'no evidence' to me.  "Did not establish" sounds like there was no concrete proof or 'smoking gun.'  

Of course, I'm biased on this just as the idiot Trump cultists are biased, however, the summary at no time uses the phrase 'no evidence.'

There is not enough evidence to conclude that there is probable cause that Trump, or anyone in the Trump Administration, committed a crime.  That's a fact, according to even Mueller.  If that were the case, Trump could have been named by Mueller as an unindicted co-conspirator.  Nixon was so named in the indictments of Haldeman and Ehrlichmann, long before the "Smoking Gun" of the release of the actual tapes.  

As for the 2020 GE, have at it!  That's what General Elections are for.  If people wish to make a political case against Trump on the campaign trail, well, fine and good!  That's what the political process is about.  But stop the advocacy of issue positions that suggest that Trump is Below the Law.  He's not Below the Law any more than he's Above the Law, but the Echo Chamber is very much in denial of that.  (Although I have been encouraged by a few cracks on that particular point, which is a good thing.)

No proof of a crime on the matter of conspiracy. Mueller had no opinion on obstruction of justice, and other matters have been handed off to other prosecutors.

Yes, but both Barr AND Rosenstein concluded that "the evidence developed during the Special Counsel’s investigation is not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense".

Yes, that Rod Rosenstein who appointed Mueller.
Yes, that Rod Rosenstein who allegedly was discussing the possibility of invoking the 25th.

He is clearly NOT a Trump hack. Not even close.
Actually, I don't think Bill Barr likes Donald Trump very much either. But he is probably more biased.

Oh sure, but Mueller didn't comment on it. Also, I wrote 'handed off to other prosecutors.'  I should have written 'handed off to other investigators.'