France, as understood by a Frenchman (user search)
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  France, as understood by a Frenchman (search mode)
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Author Topic: France, as understood by a Frenchman  (Read 2495 times)
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« on: July 13, 2004, 07:55:52 PM »

I promise, this will be the last of my general article posts for a while. I just thought that the general politics discussion here had gotten a mite stale since the Edwards VP disappointment.

Anyhow, here's the link:
http://www.understandfrance.org/Sommaire.html

It's more of a search-and-destroy site than an actual article, but it's nonetheless fascinating. Highlights:

(1) French secularism--since 1789 generally, but 1905 by law, France has been an atheistic nation

"...in France, you do not mix religion and society : it is a private domain and no candidate for any public function would ever mention his religious belief, the name of God, etc ; it is absolutely unthinkable that a French president would express his religious beliefs the way US presidents do (particularly George W. Bush) ; at social occasions (dinner party, etc..), it would be considered rude to start a discussion about God and religion, unless a very light and careful one ; the role of the church in social life is extremely limited compared to the U.S.A"

I'm not particularly religious myself, but being surrounded by unbelievers in anything is intensely distressing.

(2) On French Anti-Americanism

"Nevertheless, it is a fact that there is a long tradition of (political) anti-Americanism, especially in the political left wing in Europe (see below and bibliography), the very symbol of it being the magazine Le Monde Diplomatique. It is also a fact that in France, as in other European countries, the words associated with America are not always positive: see a poll. Roger (see below) explains that since the 19th century, Anti-américanism has been a value shared by the whole French society, the only area of consensus between left and right.
But do not take it personally and don't fear any situation where you would be the victim of anti-Americanism : American tourist are never ill-treated and everybody will be friendly with you and, in France, in any poll on " What people do you like the most ", America always ranks #1 or #2... Read a letter about it."

In other words, we Americans should be grateful that a visit to Paris will not include an empty bottle smashed against our skulls...

(3) Americans the French 'admire'

The neo-populists " : Michael Moore (with his picture on the cover) & Jim Hightower
" The joker " : Howard Dean
" The radicals " : Barbara Ehrenreich & Ralph Nader
" The subversives " : Naomi Klein, Trey Parker & Matt Stone
" The new economists " : Paul Krugman
" The cyber-anarchists " : Elie Pariser & Richard Stallman
" The alternatives " : Lori Wallach & Jeremy Rifkin
" The new feminists " : Catherine MacKinnon & Gayle Rubin
" The moralists " : Alfred Ross & Barry Lynn
" The dissidents " : Mitchell Cohen, Michael Walzer, John Podesta & Bob Boorstin
" The Culture rebels " : Sean Penn, Don DeLillo, Chuck Palahniuk, Jay McInerney, Bret Easton Ellis, Dave Eggers, Nan Goldin, R.L.Burnside, Ani DiFranco, Marilyn Manson & Eminem

In other words, they love Americans who share the same psycopathic resentment of the US as the French themselves do. Interestingly, though, no one in France despises--not merely dislikes or lampoons or condescends--their own country in similar fashion.
 
Let me say this much: for some peculiar reason, only the 'Anglo-Saxon' countries (US, UK, Australia, most especially Canada and NZ), particularly the liberal-left political wings thereof, have the capacity for national self-loathing necessary to produce a Michael Moore or a John Pilger. I still haven't found a satisfactory explanation for that observation.







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Storebought
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2004, 10:13:22 AM »

This will likely be my last post on the AF, so I might as well place something a touch more interesting to me than the latest Kerry/Edwards DNC turbo-blast fax, I mean, public opinion poll.

A Boston Globe article about a sclerotic and paranoid Western European nation

France gives critical look at its falling influence

The crux of the article:

"The French are aware that they need to find a new energy. They take satisfaction in believing that the American model is wrong, or at least flawed, and that their new energy may be to define themselves against America."

In short, France today is in as dire shape as the US was during the 1970s. But they hate the US to the extent that they are unwilling to consider even the watered-down economic liberalization schemes implemented in Spain and Ireland for fear of becoming 'too American.'

The French elites are so blinded by reflexive ideological hatred that they'd rather see their country rust solid than reform.








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Storebought
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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2004, 08:23:39 AM »


Yep.

I need every waking moment of the day for getting ready for grad school--entrance exams, moving out of state, paying off intractable debts--and this site just draws a tad too much time away from my responsibilities.

But the AF has served its purpose. I am no longer a political junkie; politics, in fact, sickens me a little more each day.

When I signed up, I desperately hated the Democratic Party and spent precious waking hours fretting about how the Democrats (especially Dean) wanted to f* America.  Now, with that ticket headed by Kerry/Edwards, the Democrats will just bore us, not destroy us. So now there's little point in worrying about them anymore.

Not to mention, politicians have less honor than your average gangster, and some of the 'politicians' who participate in this site's Fantasy Elections are no exception. I didn't know ordinary people could be so..dog-like.

In spite of the wannabes, Dave runs a hell of a site--informative and entertaining. And the people who use the Forum itself, except the trolls and a few others, are pretty good, too.

And, I posted so much about France because, well, I'm in Louisiana, and French influence here is ubiquitous.  Unfortunately, most of that influence is deleterious, so I spend my time warning others about it.

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