Indictment-O-Rama Megathread: Mueller indicts 13 Russians

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Basically indicting him on Ukraine lobbying.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

12 counts including conspiracy against the US. Meanwhile the Trumplettes are saying this has nothing to do with Russia and Clinton indictment coming soon, gotta love the commitment to the delusion.

This specific indictment does have nothing to do with Russia though. Mueller could add further charges related to Russia at a later date, though.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

12 counts including conspiracy against the US. Meanwhile the Trumplettes are saying this has nothing to do with Russia and Clinton indictment coming soon, gotta love the commitment to the delusion.

This specific indictment does have nothing to do with Russia though. Mueller could add further charges related to Russia at a later date, though.

It is related to Yanukovich who was a puppet of Russia and whose removal from office led to the ongoing Ukrainian crisis.

Sure. But nothing related to the Trump campaign and its relationship with Russia.

It seems like they're hitting Manafort early on financial crimes to get him to flip.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Sounds like the Papadopolous guilty plea is more significant than Manafort as the charge directly relates to contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia

[Statilius the Epicurean]

I think this is most significant:

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Here Putin is mentioned by name

"Approved from our side" lol

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Two different angles but Dems shouldn't get their hopes up of a Trump indictment honestly.

1. Manafort and Gates are being charged with crimes most likely committed outside the scope of their Trump campaign duties, and while it may be posited that Manafort pushed Trump in a pro-Russia policy direction, such a claim could never be proven in a court of law to be illegal unless Manafort has other dirt on Trump (which would be the hope re. Manafort if D's want a Trump indictment to follow from this).

2. Papadopoulos (sp?) plead guilty to misleading statements, which, while ensuring cooperation for Mueller's investigation, is not evidence of any collusion-based crime in and of itself, nor does it point to others in the campaign being guilty of anything related to Russia.

Sorry if any of the above realizations are a letdown. Good news is that if Trump did commit a crime it would appear much more likely now than it did yesterday that it will come to light and he will be impeached as a result. I doubt any of this will, on its' own, amount to much, however. We will see in the coming days and weeks how Manafort reacts and whether anyone else gets drawn in - things were standing on the brink for the investigation with the swamp monsters calling for Mueller's resignation after the Clinton news, and things definitely look a lot better now, so we should at least be assured of a complete investigation now, which is all an honest citizen can ask for.

What are you expecting? We're only a few months into the investigation, of course Mueller isn't going to start charging the President with collusion before he has a completely ironclad case including several witnesses. We have to see where this goes.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

It's plausible as PJW is enough of a basement-dwelling loser to post on Atlas.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

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President having a lunch with his Attorney General? What a news!

It is when they had a rather public falling out

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Politico: Mueller team won battle to force testimony from lawyer for Manafort and Gates

And the opinion of the judge was rather interesting:

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Bannon is being reckless.

Mueller and his team will bury them if they go this route.

If Trump pushed to get Mueller's funding cut, couldn't that beef up the obstruction of justice case?

If Trump is even talking to someone who is advising him to cut Mueller's funding it's bad for his obstruction of justice defence.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

I don't see anything proving Sessions perjured himself yet. Bringing up meetings and travelling to Russia might look shady but isn't proof of collusion.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Trump would be a real moron to fire Sessions. 48 Dems + McCain/Corker/Flake would block any any appointee who would try to shut down the investigation.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

How much insanely illegal sh**t do we think Kushner has got up to in the White House?  I remember reading a WaPo article this spring about him selling visas to rich Chinese businessmen.  

[Statilius the Epicurean]

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Can we not post obvious bullsh**t please?

[Statilius the Epicurean]

If Trump was indicted in office he'd just pardon himself so I don't see why Mueller would try.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Has anyone pointed out yet how insanely shady it is that a former lobbyist for Russian-backed dictators turned up out of nowhere in the summer of 2016 to run the Trump campaign for free?