If Warner gets the nomination, what red states are in play?

[Moooooo]

He wont win any "solid" red states. 

In Play:

Ohio
Florida
Missouri
Iowa
New Mexico
West Virginia
Nevada

LONG shots:

Virginia
North Carolina
Kentucky
Tennesee

Impossible:

All other "red" states.

[Moooooo]

Everything is a trade off.

What do you mean?

[Moooooo]

You don't add without subtracting in politics. Whatever Warner puts into play he loses somewhere else in an absolute sense (not that he would definitely lose, say, Michigan, but his relative performance in certain states would be weaker than Kerry's).

Gotcha'. 

[Moooooo]

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And Feingold is an arrogant jewish version of John Kerry w/ an even more liberal voting record that will get torn to shreds.  No, wait, Russ Feingold will be the Howard Dean of 2008.  The far left will love him and jump on his bandwagon, but he will finish a dissapointing 3rd or 4th in Iowa and be forced out of the race.  All the extreme liberals will pout and cry.  Vow to stay home on general election day.  Call foul on the DLC for pushing their candidate through the primaries.  Booo HOoo Hooo.

By the way...

Edwards and Warner are not comparable.
-Warner is a Governor.  Edwards was a Senator
-Warner has a decent list of accomplishments.  Edwards did not.
-Warner is well respected and popular in his home state.  Edwards was not.
-Warner is term limited.  Edwards took the VP slot because his Senate seat was gone.

And the list goes on... 

[Moooooo]

George Lakoff has written some good books on framing.

I agree that framing is a big part of winning elections, but certian issues cannot be "framed" into winning issues.  Gay marriage aka "Equal Rights for All Americans"... Partial birth abortions aka "Womens reproductive rights." Gun-Controll aka "Gun Safety" etc...  People are dumb, but not that dumb.  They can see right through the bullsh**t.

If the Democrats can get back to their populist roots. They will be winning elections in no time.  Check out your buddy Brian Schweitzer.  Read up on his campaign.  He gets it.

[Moooooo]

Who ran for President who was for gay marriage ro partial birth abortions? You seem to totally be mis-understanding what I'm staying. Schweitzer is opposed to gay marriage, but opposes the anti-gay marriage constituional amendment, just like Kerry, and just like Dean.

I was using examples to explain that re-framing our issues alone will not magically place a Democrat in the White House as you implied earlier.  The voters will see right through the BS.

[Moooooo]

Reframing does not mean lying about ones positions. It means about marketing ones positions successfully. The Democrats often use language that helps the Republicans. You're somehow implying that Democratic ideas are unwinnable. That's bullsh**t. 60% of America supports single payer health care (too left-wing a position for Kerry or Dean).  67% support both eliminating the SS cap of 90k, and cutting SS benefits to the rich. You'll find similar support on the environment, and many other issues.

You're nuts if you think that oppsing the Iraq war and that bankruptcy bill makes you some sort of liberal extremist. Plenty of conservatives oppose both of those.

WTF are you talking about?  Seriously.  I named a couple issues that CANNOT be framed to our advantage and you respond with, 60% of Americans support a single payer health care system.

Ive read Lakoff's book (most of it.).  I understand that framing issues to your advtange is a key to victory.  I never said we should lie or abandon all Democratic principles.  Im saying maybe we should totally abandon or re-think some of our issues.

[Moooooo]

So opposing the bankruptcy bill is pandering to your base, since the banktupcy bill can't hurt hard-working blue collar union workers? Thanks for missing the point.

Thats a winning issue supported by most if not all democrats.  We're talking about issues that only satisfy the extreme liberal base.  Gay Marriage, Partial Birth Abortion, Gun Control, Pussy Foreign Policy, etc...

[Moooooo]

Ummm, you're totally wrong. Many Democrats including Bayh and Biden voted for the bill.

I know who voted for the bill.  When did I say Bayh and Biden did not vote for the Bankruptcy bill?