UK General Discussion: 2017 and onwards, Mayhem

[Omega21]

I feel like having a 2nd referendum would be a case of "Referendums are good if they turn out how we want them to, if not, we just repeat until we get what we want", even though I would probably be against leaving.

Sad to see a great nation in political and social turmoil, and even though I am right wing, I don't see how leaving the EU is going to stop any of the issues that were imported into your country (such as rising knife crime, acid attacks, FGM, polygamy, disabled children due to incest etc.).

Hope you guys get your sh**t together soon.

[Omega21]

The benefits of immigration haven't been felt by everyone. A 'net benefit' is irrelevant when you're a 'net loser'.

Also, May's "citizen of nowhere" comment should be put in its proper context:

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Unfortunately, politics has long been a case of ignoring context.

Perhaps May could have gone for Norway or Switzerland, but you'd have had a very large number of people wondering why we were still getting EU migrants when they voted to stop that. It wouldn't have united the country - it would have been seen as the worst of all worlds by both sides. Chequers is supposed to be a phased transition out, but it's not going to happen.

It's going to be No Deal or No Brexit; the EU knows this. May should have realised that we cannot just the EU like that, but she got handed an impossible task, which she then made worse with the 2017 election.

I understand the EU migrant thing to an extent, but is that really such an issue considering the UK loves importing 3rd world country migrants who bring much worse issues that European migrants don't?

[Omega21]

It was a provocative term and she should've been careful with her language, it was aimed at "the liberal metropolitan elites", the problem is yes large swath of remain voters are posh and affluent but many are lower middle class and working class people...

The entire conference was xenophobic, Amber Rudd proposed to make firms reveal foreign staff numbers...

Yep, because xenophobia works in politics. We're a pretty xenophobic nation all round, sadly. Comes with being an island.

@Omega21: What do you mean by much worse issues? Is this going to go down the Islamophobia path?

I was referring to FGM, Acid attacks, Polygamy and Birth defects due to incest.

As far as I am aware, these issues were completely or almost completely non-existent before 3rd world migration, but feel free to correct me on it, would love to hear a story about Jack the good old English lad who likes to perform FGM after a night in the pub.

Edit: I should have also clarified that I know that the vast majority of 3rd world migrants do not participate in these things, but I want to see if you will actually acknowledge that these crimes are being solely carried out by that group, and not EU and UK citizens.

[Omega21]

Nah, Jack the lad just went to a literal dog fight after the public hanging.

So you are not going to acknowledge that these are imported issues?

Also, as far as I am aware, the death penalty was abolished across Europe decades ago.

[Omega21]

No, I'm ciaiming that we're not as civilised as we think we are. We like watching unknowing people getting humiliated in public on television for one thing.

So you are comparing humiliating someone to mutilating someone's reproductive organ or throwing acid in their face...

Man, that's not really a great argument, I kinda' feel like you are ashamed to be British or a white Brit. Instead, why not working to address the issues you mentioned and not import new ones?

[Omega21]

France and Germany Said to Warn EU Not to Let U.K. Claim Victory

1) Germany and France have privately warned the European Union to do more to prevent the U.K. from being able to claim victory in Brexit talks, according to EU diplomats

2) France wants UK to stick to EU’s environment standards, even if EU makes them stricter after Brexit + sign up to so-called level playing field restrictions in areas of labor law, state aid and taxation as well as a pledge to allow European fishing vessels access to British waters

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-19/france-and-germany-said-to-warn-eu-not-to-let-u-k-claim-victory

^^ France and Germany are really helping Theresa May sell her deal in the house of commons....

I wouldn't be too concerned about what Mr Macron has to say, even 75% of his own people don't support him anymore.

[Omega21]

The Polish family divided over leaving the UK during Brexit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRr2NVgkbS8

^^ heartbreaking 😢💔, if I was there I'd hug this poor lady and beg her not to leave 💔
England will always be their home, she was so sad about leaving, so so sad ;/😢

You do know that she can stay like nothing has changed, right...?

[Omega21]

Jeremy Corbyn blasts 'neoliberal' EU as he calls for a socialist Europe

All hail Jeremy, the glorious leader of the future UKSSR!

[Omega21]

Jeremy Corbyn blasts 'neoliberal' EU as he calls for a socialist Europe

All hail Jeremy, the glorious leader of the future UKSSR!

(pedantic) The right term is ESSR: English Soviet Socialist Republic.  It cannot be simultaneously a Kingdom and a Republic, so K would have to be dropped. And It is not likely to be very United, so there goes the U. I guess, if Wales states, it could be BSSR (British Soviet Socialist Republic).

Though, on second thought, there is a problem: ESSR was Estonia and BSSR was Belorussia. So, perhaps, to follow the Soviet practice in such cases we should do EngSSR or BritSSR.

Oh yeah, you're right, my bad... BritSSR seems hip, but I would also be fine with EngSSR.

Let's just hope he spears the Royals, unlike the Soviets...

[Omega21]

Jeremy Corbyn blasts 'neoliberal' EU as he calls for a socialist Europe

All hail Jeremy, the glorious leader of the future UKSSR!

(pedantic) The right term is ESSR: English Soviet Socialist Republic.  It cannot be simultaneously a Kingdom and a Republic, so K would have to be dropped. And It is not likely to be very United, so there goes the U. I guess, if Wales states, it could be BSSR (British Soviet Socialist Republic).

Though, on second thought, there is a problem: ESSR was Estonia and BSSR was Belorussia. So, perhaps, to follow the Soviet practice in such cases we should do EngSSR or BritSSR.

Oh yeah, you're right, my bad... BritSSR seems hip, but I would also be fine with EngSSR.

Let's just hope he spears the Royals, unlike the Soviets...

Spears the royals?! Poor Queen Elizabeth. Why do you want such a grizzly end for her?!!! Then, again, just thinking of Corbyn with a spear makes one shudder.

Or did you mean spares?

Hahahaha, yeah, I meant spares, my bad again...

Seriously, I feel like the 2 party UK system is worse than in the US.

[Omega21]

It's a lot of bollocks to say the Scots have 'never felt at home' with the union.

Not only does it ignore the entire 19th century, where the Scottish did remarkably well from industrialsation, and empire but it also ignores that in the last two elections in Scotland the unionist parties have done much better than they were doing.

You choose to be rude rather than look at the facts, most of the wealth in Scotland was owned by the privileged few during the heydays of slavery and the tobacco industry, most of the colourful and characteristic buildings in Glasgow were built during that era...

Scotland witnessed unprecedented levels of emigration (more than any part of the UK bar Ireland) to Canada, New Zealand and to lesser extent the US and Australia for centuries.
Some Scots were driven out of their lands by the Lords of MacDonald's and MacLeods in the Isle of Skye but thats another subject.

Since the 50s the Scots had to put up with Tory governments they never voted for because people in London suburbs and the South East vote overwhelmingly Tory...

Demographic changes and the way Scotland is disrespected and ignored by the current Tory government, are creating a fertile ground for independence,
SNP need to wait for the right moment before triggering indyref2, patience is of the essence...

Pretty sure that there was a Labour government in the 1970s that held the first devolution referendum.

Scots voted YES for devolution in 1979 on a 63.72%, but the referendum was stacked in a ridiculous way,
they were disrespected and had to wait 20 years before they got the Scottish parliament.

Kind of off topic, but I need to ask, are you proud to be British/English?

Asking since I already met a guy on here who says he's ashamed of being a white Englishman, so just want to see how popular this sentiment is.


In terms of independence, I think they should be allowed to vote on it every x amount of years, and go their own way if they choose to do so.

Plus, Britain has not been an empire for a long time and is now basically a sidekick of the US, who is the main Imperialist now (In modern terms).

[Omega21]

It's a lot of bollocks to say the Scots have 'never felt at home' with the union.

Not only does it ignore the entire 19th century, where the Scottish did remarkably well from industrialsation, and empire but it also ignores that in the last two elections in Scotland the unionist parties have done much better than they were doing.

You choose to be rude rather than look at the facts, most of the wealth in Scotland was owned by the privileged few during the heydays of slavery and the tobacco industry, most of the colourful and characteristic buildings in Glasgow were built during that era...

Scotland witnessed unprecedented levels of emigration (more than any part of the UK bar Ireland) to Canada, New Zealand and to lesser extent the US and Australia for centuries.
Some Scots were driven out of their lands by the Lords of MacDonald's and MacLeods in the Isle of Skye but thats another subject.

Since the 50s the Scots had to put up with Tory governments they never voted for because people in London suburbs and the South East vote overwhelmingly Tory...

Demographic changes and the way Scotland is disrespected and ignored by the current Tory government, are creating a fertile ground for independence,
SNP need to wait for the right moment before triggering indyref2, patience is of the essence...

Pretty sure that there was a Labour government in the 1970s that held the first devolution referendum.

Scots voted YES for devolution in 1979 on a 63.72%, but the referendum was stacked in a ridiculous way,
they were disrespected and had to wait 20 years before they got the Scottish parliament.

Kind of off topic, but I need to ask, are you proud to be British/English?

Asking since I already met a guy on here who says he's ashamed of being a white Englishman, so just want to see how popular this sentiment is.


In terms of independence, I think they should be allowed to vote on it every x amount of years, and go their own way if they choose to do so.

Plus, Britain has not been an empire for a long time and is now basically a sidekick of the US, who is the main Imperialist now (In modern terms).

I'm a woman ;/
I don't consider myself British at all, I'm English born and bred in Plymouth, England.
I England, but I'm not a nationalist (I strongly deplore nationalism, pride and vanity) and I don't view England as superior to any other nation if that makes sense?!

The empire is gone, but the imperialist mindset still govern the nation unfortunately...

Oh yeah I know, I was referring to the guy I chatted with when I said Englishman.

I also oppose "Ultra nationalism", meaning that you will harm other peoples or countries in order to further your own goals, but that's not what we are talking about.

Nationalism doesn't mean that you think you're superior, but simply proud to be what you are and proud of the things that built your nation (English/British values).

Why are you not proud of the fact that your culture does not oppress women, while many cultures still do?

The double standards are very real today because I see (Insert African nation here) "pride" exhibitions all the time in Vienna in a Socialist Party office, would you dare attack their Nationalism and pride of their heritage, or only if it's white people?

[Omega21]

The double standards are very real today because I see (Insert African nation here) "pride" exhibitions all the time in Vienna in a Socialist Party office, would you dare attack their Nationalism and pride of their heritage, or only if it's white people?

you lost me ....?

Sorry, should've elaborated.

Today, I hear people daily bashing on European nationalism and pride, but yet they encourage Africans, for example, to be proud of their heritage (thus the "African culture pride" exhibitions I see here) and roots, so what I am asking is, are you a part of this group?

[Omega21]

The double standards are very real today because I see (Insert African nation here) "pride" exhibitions all the time in Vienna in a Socialist Party office, would you dare attack their Nationalism and pride of their heritage, or only if it's white people?

you lost me ....?

Sorry, should've elaborated.

Today, I hear people daily bashing on European nationalism and pride, but yet they encourage Africans, for example, to be proud of their heritage (thus the "African culture pride" exhibitions I see here) and roots, so what I am asking is, are you a part of this group?

That's a much more complex and deep argument,
European nationalism led to 2 world wars, and and many wars and battles through the centuries.
African culture have been looked down on and appropriated by europeans for a very long time.

I don't see pride as good thing, nobody is superior, nobody is inferior.
But I do believe we have a moral obligation to help the nations we've systematically used and abused through colonialism,

Yeah, but you can't bash European nationalism and not bash African nationalism, in any case.

Nationalism also kept you from living in the Greater Nazi Reich today, because if it didn't exist, I doubt your ancestors would endure years of living in rubble while Rockets scream from above.

Europeans have also invented the modern World and the very thing you are using to power the device with which you're replying right now, so we've given more than enough to the rest of the world.

Africans would have also done the same (colonise and enslave) if they were more technologically advanced than Europeans, and now, decades after colonialism they still kill each other.

When America freed Black Slaves and sent them to Liberia, these former slaves colonised and enslaved the native blacks, so it's not about culture or nationalism, but who's more powerful. Feel free to look it up.

[Omega21]

With all due respect, Audrey, much of that destruction was done by the locals to the locals. We aren't responsible for all the wrong in the world.

Agreed.

I definitely do not support a lot of UK foreign policy, but what you said is spot on.

[Omega21]

With all due respect, Audrey, much of that destruction was done by the locals to the locals. We aren't responsible for all the wrong in the world.

We're responsible for what happened in Basra, were responsible for bombing Libya, we are responsible for Afghanistan and the mujahideen.
We clearly do not understand that region.

So why didn't you vote for Nigel Farage?

He shares the same opinion and has publicly made it clear on multiple occasions.

[Omega21]

We're not a major power anymore and we should stop acting like one, when you think about it our last successful intervention was in the Balkans,

Do you call bombing civilian targets from the Air "successful"?

I assume you are referring to the bombing campaign against Serbia.

[Omega21]

So, what should have been done in Kosovo instead?

Maybe Bridges, factories, Embassies (lol) and Civilians should not have been bombed hundreds of kilometres away from Kosovo?

[Omega21]

So, what should have been done in Kosovo instead?

Maybe Bridges, factories, Embassies (lol) and Civilians should not have been bombed hundreds of kilometres away from Kosovo?

Facilities belonging to the Yugoslav regime and used to support their ethnic cleansing?

You do realize that Novi Sad was cut in half when all of the bridges were destroyed and that civilians died on the bridges?

The Chinese embassy also had a weapons factory in the basement?

What about the bombing of a refugee column, also used to support ethnic cleansing?

[Omega21]

There is a difference between accidental killing of civilians and deliberate targeting on them.

How do you accidentally target an embassy?

The guy who provided the map of places not to bomb also confirmed the maps are correct.

Maybe it's an embassy on wheels so it moves every day.

Either the commander was a thick knob (which is unlikely), or they deliberately bombed it.