Begging the question (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 05, 2024, 11:28:02 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Forum Community
  Forum Community (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, YE, KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸)
  Begging the question (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: Does it irritate you when someone uses the idiom "begs the question" to mean "raises the question"?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 11

Author Topic: Begging the question  (Read 2914 times)
A18
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,794
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

« on: December 20, 2008, 09:43:04 PM »

Yes. Sadly, illiterates seem to be well on their way to stamping out its traditional meaning.

Then what will we call the fallacy? "Petitio principii"? Abhorrent.
Logged
A18
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,794
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2008, 10:45:33 AM »

The problem with dropping the traditional definition isn't that it's a break with tradition. The problem is that it makes a perfectly good idiom ambiguous.

Grammar, spellings, and definitions do indeed change—although formal English grammar has (happily) changed very little over the past 200 years. No one claims that the present state of the language is an act of God; it is indeed arbitrary. But that fact doesn't cast any doubt on the wisdom of a moderate linguistic conservatism. It prevents old texts from becoming unintelligible to modern readers; insures against regional dialects becoming too out of line with one another; and (as in this case) maintains useful features of traditional usage.

If humans weren't naturally prone to snobbery, the rate of linguistic change would be an absolute nightmare.
Logged
A18
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,794
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2008, 01:27:12 PM »

Well, of course; it's not unambiguous any more. That's exactly what I'm complaining about. Its misuse has made it synonymous, in the minds of far too many people, with "raise the question."

By a "moderate" linguistic conservatism, I mean one that takes into account three factors; namely, (1) How useful is the convention being violated?; (2) What are the prospects for salvaging it, at least in educated writing?; and (3) Does adopting the contrary rule make me want to puke? As it so happens, here the answers are "quite useful," "considerable," and "almost."

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

That is indeed what I'm saying. The purpose of language is communication; not variety.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yes; an absolute nightmare, as it used to be. Except even worse.
Logged
A18
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,794
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2008, 03:11:14 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

I take it you think that the traditional definition is not (and never was) sustainable, because the phrase sounds too much like "that begs for the question." But "that begs for the question" is an incredibly awkward construction; and as such, the analogy is scarcely inevitable. (Indeed, a Google Book Search turns up a mere two pages of results, all from the past couple of decades.)

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

I actually had no trouble with it. But yeah, next time add some commas. Smiley

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Oh, the latter may well be a "purpose[]" it serves. Likewise, differentiated languages make ordering fast food as irritating an experience as possible for a great many of us. Plus a hundred other things. Now, how many of these are important, or even positive... that's a value judgment. We disagree, but it remains a valid reason for me to endorse a moderate prescriptivism.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.019 seconds with 12 queries.