Northeast Assembly Thread

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Right off the bat, this is a bill that I just can't support.  First of all, when music is illegally downloaded from the internet, the artists receive no payment for their work.  If artists aren't profiting off of their songs, they won't want to continuing making music.  Not only is this unfair, but it's counterproductive to the music industry and musicians themselves.  Piracy is no different from stealing from a store, and the bill's language allows just that.

Secondly, this bill is very confusing.  The third provision discourages - but doesn't prohibit - the illegal downloading of music, but the fourth and fifth provisions let people who are guilty of doing so off the hook and bars musicians from suing these websites.  I don't really understand how the purpose of this bill is to legalize piracy, but discourages illegal downloading in one of the provisions.  Or maybe I'm misinterpreting it.  I would certainly like some clarification or revisions made to this bill.

I'll answer chronologically--

First off, plenty of artists nowadays have come out in support of illegal downloading. The popular television show South Park even came out in favor of illegal downloading making the point that if fans are listening to the music, they'll still go to see the band in concert. The profit is still there. If more people are listening to the music, more people are likely to go see the band live. That can't happen if people are locked up for downloading.

Secondly, I'd be happy to make revisions, as the language is a bit confusing even to me. I believe my original intent was just for the Assembly to say "Don't do it, it's not right." but not arrest anyone for it. Similar to the idea that when women get abortions it is not "morally justified" and is "discouraged" but they still do it. Just perhaps an issued warning to think twice before downloading and perhaps consider buying the CD.

Not every musician agrees with the creators of South Park on this.  Particularly Metallica, Dr. Dre, Madonna, Elton John, Lily Allen, and several others.  And those are just the big names.  What if you're a little-known artist who lives off every penny you make?  Just for the sake of argument, what if you don't do any live shows at all and solely depend on profit from online buyers?  Denying musicians the right to litigation under the assumption that the illegal downloaders will go to live shows is not just because it deprives them of compensation for their labor.  If a musician wants their music to be downloaded for free, for any intention, they ought to be entitled to making that decision.  Taking that choice out of their hands will discourage newer artists from making more music.

If we're going to pass a bill that legalizes piracy, we may as well not have a provision discouraging its practice.  If anything, we are only encouraging it this way.  So yes, there is definitely room for revision in this bill.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Big artists make plenty of money. More people come to their shows than anyone else. Boohoo Metallica can't make $400 million from a tour and they have to settle for $375 million because not everybody bought their CD. I'm all for keeping the money you earn, but not everybody can afford to buy CDs nowadays. I can't afford to go out and buy every CD and go to every concert. Don't you think I wish I could? Absolutely. But it's just not possible.

If an artist makes music and doesn't do live shows then that's their problem. It's part of being a musician. 50% of making music is recording it, the other 50 is playing live shows.

I'd be happy to make revisions though.

That doesn't mean we should legalize stealing.  Can big artists live without some of that money?  Sure.  But that doesn't give consumers the right to take as they please.  Using that logic, it should be okay to steal from all major companies: Toyota, Wal-Mart, Apple, Microsoft, Gap, et cetera.  I believe Kid Rock said it best.  If we tell people it's okay to take things and not pay the producers for their hard work, fewer people will want to find careers in music.  And remember: this bill doesn't only affect the wealthy artists, this affects low-income artists, as well.  If a smaller artist's music is illegally downloaded, that person or band sees a much greater loss.

No.  If an artist doesn't want to do live shows, that's their decision.  They're still entitled to making a profit off of the work that they did.  Why shouldn't they be allowed to profit just because they're strictly internet-based?

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Big artists make plenty of money. More people come to their shows than anyone else. Boohoo Metallica can't make $400 million from a tour and they have to settle for $375 million because not everybody bought their CD. I'm all for keeping the money you earn, but not everybody can afford to buy CDs nowadays. I can't afford to go out and buy every CD and go to every concert. Don't you think I wish I could? Absolutely. But it's just not possible.

If an artist makes music and doesn't do live shows then that's their problem. It's part of being a musician. 50% of making music is recording it, the other 50 is playing live shows.

I'd be happy to make revisions though.

That doesn't mean we should legalize stealing.  Can big artists live without some of that money?  Sure.  But that doesn't give consumers the right to take as they please.  Using that logic, it should be okay to steal from all major companies: Toyota, Wal-Mart, Apple, Microsoft, Gap, et cetera.  I believe Kid Rock said it best.  If we tell people it's okay to take things and not pay the producers for their hard work, fewer people will want to find careers in music.  And remember: this bill doesn't only affect the wealthy artists, this affects low-income artists, as well.  If a smaller artist's music is illegally downloaded, that person or band sees a much greater loss.

No.  If an artist doesn't want to do live shows, that's their decision.  They're still entitled to making a profit off of the work that they did.  Why shouldn't they be allowed to profit just because they're strictly internet-based?

I think you're overestimating the amount of people that download music. It's not like CD downloads outweigh the amount of CDs bought. I'd put the ratio at somewhere around 1:300 or 400 for downloads to purchases.

CD sales have been decreasing.  Here are three important statistics taken from this article.

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CDs may still be more popular, but digital music sales are increasing.  Many people who buy physical albums are older generation.  But regardless of the ratio, I still don't see this as justification for stealing music.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Well major labels are stopping CD production after 2012 so if you're going to continue on the physical CD argument, it's moot after a year. Online CD sales are better anyway. I could buy an album on iTunes for $9.99 instead of going to Target and spending $13.99. Plus it's convenient. But that's beyond the point. For those who can't afford the music, the option should be available. Plus the prohibition strategy never works. It didn't work with alcohol in the 20's, it's not working drugs and it's not working with music downloading. Human psychology leads us to believe that when told not to do something, we are more likely to do it. Therefore, I believe my colleagues should vote "aye" on this bill. Do we really want to continue to arrest our citizens? Theft is wrong, I agree. I honestly agree. But decriminalizing illegal downloading will likely result in less people doing it. It's a matter of how you want to look at it. Do you want to force people not to buy music because they can't afford it? Or do you want them to be able to enjoy music and go to concerts as per their budget allows? It's all a matter of how you want to look at it.

As Cincinnatus mentioned, artists will still profit off of online sales when CDs are no longer sold.

So now you're saying that people who can't afford to buy music legally are entitled to just go ahead and steal?  If we go by this attitude, people won't have the incentive to go out and work, at all.  Stealing from a person should never be an option.

Telling people they aren't allowed to break the law and steal things from people is not 'Prohibition'.  That's completely different.  Prohibition and the War on Drugs are wrong because they infringe on civil liberties.  Passing this bill would permit people to infringe on the musicians' civil liberties and property rights.  To say you are against theft would not be credible, because your bill decriminalizes just that.  I also strongly disagree that less people will steal music if we legalize that very practice.  This bill replaces ancient law that prohibits theft with a friendly request to not partake in it.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

The gentleman withdraws his bill from consideration.  The Assembly will now consider the legislation introduced by the gentleman from Pennsylvania.  Debate will last for 48 hours.

Amendment to the NE Constitution - Residential Officeholder Act of 2011

1) Only residents of the Northeast region may run for office in the Northeast.

2) One must be a citizen of the region for a total of 7 (seven) days before declaring a candidacy in any election.

3) If one was previously a resident of the region but changed location, section 2 still applies.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

It's certainly logical for only Northeast citizens being allowed to run for office here, but I should ask, why do we need section 2?

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Some senators have come out against the voting restrictions Atlasia has, if I recall correctly.  There really isn't a need for them.  I'm not sure if I will be voting for this, because the first provision is already law and the only new thing this bill appears to add is another voting restriction.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Debate time has expired.  Members will now cast their votes on passage of the amendment.  This will be a 24-hour vote.

2/3 in favor needed for passage

Amendment to the NE Constitution - Residential Officeholder Act of 2011

1) Only residents of the Northeast region may run for office in the Northeast.

2) One must be a citizen of the region for a total of 7 (seven) days before declaring a candidacy in any election or voting.

3) If one was previously a resident of the region but changed location, section 2 still applies.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Nay.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Voting time has expired.  The ayes are two and the nays are three.  The bill fails.

The Assembly will now consider the legislation introduced by myself.  Debate will last for 48 hours.

Amendment to the NE Constitution - Lieutenant Governor Vacancy Act

Article II of the Northeast Constitution is hereby amended:

In the event that the office of the Lieutenant Governor is to become vacated, or that the person who receives the most votes should not take the Oath of Office, a special election shall be held and the victor will take the office to finish the remainder of the term.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I wrote this amendment around the time of the dispute regarding the Lt. Governor vacancy filling.  As cinyc told me, the current Constitution is silent on how to fill these vacancies, and traditionally they've been filled by appointment from the governor after a recommendation by the Assembly.  But this really doesn't make much sense, since the Lt. Governor is suppose to be chosen democratically.  Why should the governor be allowed to appoint people to elected positions just because of a vacancy?  My amendment revises this.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Lt. Governor is not done this way anymore.

It was, a couple weeks ago.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

But it never will be again.

Not if this is directly addressed in the Constitution, no.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

There would be a special election, just like any other Assembly vacancy.

We were suppose to have that, but cinyc said the Constitution doesn't specify how those vacancies are filled and that we would need to pass an amendment because of this.  Two weeks ago, we recommended someone for the position like the Assembly normally had done under the old Constitution.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Debate time has expired.  Members will now cast their votes on passage of the amendment.  This will be a 24-hour vote.

2/3 in favor needed for passage

Amendment to the NE Constitution - Lieutenant Governor Vacancy Act

Article II of the Northeast Constitution is hereby amended:

In the event that the office of the Lieutenant Governor is to become vacated, or that the person who receives the most votes should not take the Oath of Office, a special election shall be held and the victor will take the office to finish the remainder of the term.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Aye.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Bump...

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Voting time has expired.  The ayes are three and nays are zero.  The bill passes.

The Assembly will now consider the legislation introduced by the gentleman from Maine.  Debate will last for 48 hours.

The Absolutely Silly Act

1.  The amount of derps in the Northeast region may not exceed twelve herps.
2.  If the amount of derps does exceed twelve herps, the Northeast Assembly may herp the derps accordingly.
3.  The Game

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

This bill does not define what constitutes as a 'derp' or what the act of 'herping' is.  I'd feel uncomfortable supporting this.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I don't think that amendment passed. 3/6 isn't a majority.

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[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Then the bill fails.  I will reintroduce the amendment when we will hopefully have better turnout.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Then the bill fails.  I will reintroduce the amendment when we will hopefully have better turnout.

Try next session.

Why does it have to wait until next session?

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

True, but turnout isn't normally that low.  Besides, I'd rather get it in before the next election in case Andrew decides not to run, no one wins the office, and we're stuck with the current law of appointing people.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Well.. The Lt. Governor is certainly going to be an odd issue either way.  Technically Andrew has a term until February I would imagine.  Even though our next election should go off the new constitution, I'm not sure yet how we plan to deal with the Lt. Governor position.

That's true, I didn't consider this.  Then I suppose it doesn't really matter when the vote comes up for it, but it's definitely an issue that needs to be addressed in the Constitution.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Debate time has expired.  Members will now cast their votes on passage of the legislation.  This will be a 24-hour vote.

The Absolutely Silly Act

1.  The amount of derps in the Northeast region may not exceed twelve herps.
2.  If the amount of derps does exceed twelve herps, the Northeast Assembly may herp the derps accordingly.
3.  The Game