Ohio 2012 Congressional Races

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The Cleveland Plain Dealer endorses Kaptur over Kucinich. The walls may be closing in on Dennis here. I don't think he's going to survive this one.

I'm skeptical.  How much are newspaper/news site endorsements worth these days?

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I don't see why people like Kucinich.

He looks like the Democrat version of Trump (i.e. a troll).

I think Kucinich is actually extremely unpopular among most Democrats (including liberals) and especially among Ohio Democrats. 

I don't understand why Democrats are so obsessed with compromising on their values that they need to vote out Kucinich.

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But Kaptur is just another member of the establishment, it seems.  Kucinich is much better at representing the Progressive movement as a whole and, unlike Kaptur, is willing to stand against his own party leadership when those values are compromised.  As for working with the other side, he's done plenty of work with Ron Paul.  But if the Democrats want their party to have any legitimacy at all, it needs to nominate less Marcy Kapturs' and more Dennis Kucinichs' and Alan Graysons'.  The Republicans nominate theirs all the time.

Hell, if Kaptur wins the primary, I'll just support the Green Party candidate.  Kucinich can carry out the rest of his work in WA.

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Kaptur in a nutshell.

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If Kucinich loses to Kaptur, can he still run for one of Washington's open congressional seats?

He will.

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But Kaptur is just another member of the establishment, it seems.  Kucinich is much better at representing the Progressive movement as a whole and, unlike Kaptur, is willing to stand against his own party leadership when those values are compromised.  As for working with the other side, he's done plenty of work with Ron Paul.  But if the Democrats want their party to have any legitimacy at all, it needs to nominate less Marcy Kapturs' and more Dennis Kucinichs' and Alan Graysons'.  The Republicans nominate theirs all the time.

Hell, if Kaptur wins the primary, I'll just support the Green Party candidate.  Kucinich can carry out the rest of his work in WA.

Except that he doesn't represent the progressive movement well, if anything he hurts and discredits it.  The progressive/liberal-wing of the democratic party is/has been best represented by people like Russ Feingold, Sherrod Brown, Tom Perriello, Paul Wellstone, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, etc.  People like Kucinich and Alan Grayson are self-promoting demagogues who increase polarization, demonize anyone who disagrees with them (rather than acknowledging that good people sometimes disagree on political issues), and alienate voters.  If the Democratic party ever becomes a party of Alan Grayson-types than I would want no part in it.  Additionally, saying "I'm going to be so ideologically puritanical that the candidates I support will never be in a position to actually do anything" is taking the easy way out.  It's like saying "society is so beneath my moral standards that I am not going to participate in it in a meaningful way."  Although this allows one to feel superior, it doesn't fix anything, in fact all it really does is ensure that there will be one less person trying to change society or policy for the better.   

Kucinich and Grayson only add to that group.  Increasing polarization?  Demonizing their opponents?  Have you seen the Republican primaries this year?  If the party does change in the way that they both want it to, that will only be for the better.  The modern Progressive movement, as far as I've seen, has become nothing but another pro-establishment movement.  That's what weakens the base.  If we lose the spine of the progressive wing, the Democratic Party as a whole will only look weaker.  We already lost one of those heroes in the last midterm.

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But Kaptur is just another member of the establishment, it seems.  Kucinich is much better at representing the Progressive movement as a whole and, unlike Kaptur, is willing to stand against his own party leadership when those values are compromised.  As for working with the other side, he's done plenty of work with Ron Paul.  But if the Democrats want their party to have any legitimacy at all, it needs to nominate less Marcy Kapturs' and more Dennis Kucinichs' and Alan Graysons'.  The Republicans nominate theirs all the time.

Hell, if Kaptur wins the primary, I'll just support the Green Party candidate.  Kucinich can carry out the rest of his work in WA.

Except that he doesn't represent the progressive movement well, if anything he hurts and discredits it.  The progressive/liberal-wing of the democratic party is/has been best represented by people like Russ Feingold, Sherrod Brown, Tom Perriello, Paul Wellstone, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, etc.  People like Kucinich and Alan Grayson are self-promoting demagogues who increase polarization, demonize anyone who disagrees with them (rather than acknowledging that good people sometimes disagree on political issues), and alienate voters.  If the Democratic party ever becomes a party of Alan Grayson-types than I would want no part in it.  Additionally, saying "I'm going to be so ideologically puritanical that the candidates I support will never be in a position to actually do anything" is taking the easy way out.  It's like saying "society is so beneath my moral standards that I am not going to participate in it in a meaningful way."  Although this allows one to feel superior, it doesn't fix anything, in fact all it really does is ensure that there will be one less person trying to change society or policy for the better.  

Kucinich and Grayson only add to that group.  Increasing polarization?  Demonizing their opponents?  Have you seen the Republican primaries this year?  If the party does change in the way that they both want it to, that will only be for the better.  The modern Progressive movement, as far as I've seen, has become nothing but another pro-establishment movement.  That's what weakens the base.  If we lose the spine of the progressive wing, the Democratic Party as a whole will only look weaker.  We already lost one of those heroes in the last midterm.

 

Yes, I have seen the Republican primaries and the tea-party movement, that's the whole point.  I don't want the Democratic party to become that.  Grayson and Kucinich would not add to the group I mentioned, they would only discredit it.  There is a difference between having a spine and being a self-promoting demagogue.  Also, saying that because the Republicans have been hijacked by their most extreme factions, the Democrats should allow the same thing to happen to them is the political equivalent of "it's not my fault, they started it," hardly a valid justification for doing something.  Additionally, ideology isn't all that matters to voters, and objectively speaking, Kucinich will never be able to do anywhere near as much for Ohio as Kaptur due to the simple fact that he is (rightfully) a pariah in the eyes of most Democrats (including most liberals), Democratic politicians and rank-and-file voters can't stand the man.

If the Democrats continue to compromise on their values for the sake of appearing bipartisan, the other side will win.  All the establishment Democrats did during the first half of Obama's term was compromise every little thing they tried to pass and the Republicans didn't compromise a single thing.  As a result, we lost 60+ seats two years ago, and many of those lost seats belonged to pro-establishment, Republican-lite Democrats.  That is the biggest threat facing the Democratic Party today- not Dennis Kucinich or Alan Grayson.

Voting for a conservadem over a progressive in a primary because the former happens to have seniority on a committee is exactly what the establishment is promoting.  Kucinich has pushed for many things that benefit the country as a whole, while Kaptur served as a lapdog to the GOP.  The opposition Kucinich takes from the left comes mostly from that he isn't moderate enough for mainstream Democrats.  If most liberals are upset with Kucinich for his views, then that underlines the very problem with American liberalism today: it is a center-right ideology.

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Veysey makes a very convincing case.  Why was Kaptur so slow to respond on how she voted on gay marriage?

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Kucinich up 12225-11909 right now. Almost all of Kucinich's votes are from Cuyahoga County and almost all of Kaptur's are from everywhere else. If this keeps up, Kucinich will lose since less than half the district is in Cuyahoga County.

Where are you getting these results from?

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Damn, I don't see him winning this.

Washington state, it shall be.

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Political genuises you guys are and you missed this one...

U.S. House - District 2 - GOP Primary
625 of 632 Precincts Reporting - 99%
   Name   Party   Votes   Vote %
   Wenstrup, Brad   GOP   41,120   49%
   Schmidt, Jean (i)   GOP   36,141   43%
   Brush, Tony   GOP   4,161   5%
   Kundrata, Fred   GOP   2,890   3%

Woah.

Why/how did this happen?

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Well, congratulations to the establishment.  You get to keep your war-funder.

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Kucinich takes a last swing at Kaptur as he concedes:

I would like to be able to congratulate Congresswoman Kaptur but I do have to say that she ran a media campaign in the Cleveland media market that was utterly lacking in integrity with false statements half truths, [and] misrepresentations. I hope that is not the kind of representation she would provide to this community. And I don't think the people of Toledo have any idea of the kind of campaign that was run up in the Cleveland area.

Preach it!

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Kucinich has a survey asking whether or not he should run in Washington.

Hm, I thought he ruled that out already.  Good to see, nonetheless.