Is this a justifiable reason to support LGBT normality as a Christian? (user search)
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  Is this a justifiable reason to support LGBT normality as a Christian? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Is this a justifiable reason to support LGBT normality as a Christian?  (Read 2723 times)
Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden
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« on: October 31, 2017, 09:01:13 AM »
« edited: October 31, 2017, 09:02:45 AM by Sola gratia »

Yes, because homosexuals who marry the opposite sex are quite literally acting against their own God-given nature.  I have no reason to believe that Jesus would look upon an abusive opposite-sex relationship better than he would a healthy same-sex relationship based on the sex of those involved.

I believe the Quaker position on LGBT relationships is the best and most theologically sound one.  afleitch IIRC quoted it some time here before.

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Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2017, 05:17:30 AM »

If you want an in-depth, contextual analysis of scripture, this blog does a good job of that.
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Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden
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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 06:45:35 PM »

This is the way I look at it:

The New Testament condemns homosexual behavior.  This was never controversial among Christians until the rapidly secularizing culture began to accept such behavior.  Increased tolerance of homosexual sex is correlated strongly with increased secularism.  This is not controversial among Christians who live in countries where there isn't cultural tolerance for homosexuality.  In Africa and Asia, Christians continue to believe what the Bible has always taught on the subject.  This leads me to believe that pro-SSM Christians are compromising with the culture.

Here's another thing to consider:

Christianity was born into the Roman Empire, an empire that mostly tolerated homosexuality and a whole host of other sins (abortion, infanticide, gladiatorial games just to name a few).  By AD 400 these things were no longer tolerated.  Early Christians understood all these things to be immoral.  Now that the West is becoming less and less religious, abortion and homosexuality (and in some cases, euthanasia of infants) are becoming more and more tolerated. 
I think Kingpoleon gave a pretty good analysis above.

It is also incredibly disingenuous to single out pro-SSM Christians for "compromising with the culture" given, well, all of church history.
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Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 07:08:24 PM »

Arsenokoitai means something along the lines of men sleeping together (its a compound of men and bed).

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Romans 1:27

This passage seems to be talking about men and women abandoning marriage in order to pursue homosexual relations.  I can't get anything else out of it.

That passage refers to acts of homosexual sex in temple idol worship, not all gay people as a whole.  This is pretty clear when it's put into context:

Romans 1:22-25 - Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.  They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.


It was common for male and female shrine prostitutes to be the receiver of seed for the idols, and women were also used as vessels for the idol worshiping men.  And note that they were inflamed with lust for one another, which does not describe loving committed relationships.
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Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden
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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 10:54:42 PM »

Arsenokoitai means something along the lines of men sleeping together (its a compound of men and bed).

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Romans 1:27

This passage seems to be talking about men and women abandoning marriage in order to pursue homosexual relations.  I can't get anything else out of it.

That passage refers to acts of homosexual sex in temple idol worship, not all gay people as a whole.  This is pretty clear when it's put into context:

Romans 1:22-25 - Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.  They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.


It was common for male and female shrine prostitutes to be the receiver of seed for the idols, and women were also used as vessels for the idol worshiping men.  And note that they were inflamed with lust for one another, which does not describe loving committed relationships.

I think that's really a stretch.  If this was simply a reference to temple prostitution, then why are men committing shameful acts with other men singled out?  Why doesn't it mention men committing shameful acts with female temple prostitutes?

Because Paul was specifically addressing the Romans, whose cultural norms were very different from those of the modern West.  "Gay" and "straight" did not really exist at this time; it was expected of Roman citizens to have relations with both genders, and those who were intimate with only one sex were considered odd or abnormal.  That practice began, centuries earlier, as a religious obligation, and had grown into a custom/expectation that eventually became a vehicle for unbridled lust.  In earlier times, people engaging in the custom would undoubtedly have been uncomfortable engaging in sexual relations with someone to whom they had no natural attraction.  Paul basically said that God had just given them over to it, enabling them to completely disregard their natural attractions.

That is the historical context, but I think Romans 1:23 makes quite clear what Paul was referring to.  Today's homosexuals are not "exchang[ing] the glory of the immortal God" for images of mortal beings and animals.  Certainly not any that I know of.

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Many things in Europe were considered moral or immoral until the modern era.  Scripture has to be interpreted by the time in which it was written.  I would surmise that homosexuality had likely been rejected wholesale for its association with pagan Rome, but this does not imply that God condemns committed relationships between people of the same sex.  Jesus didn't speak a word on it.
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