NY: Convicted Felon Donald Trump!

[HisGrace]

I think we’re all excited for what comes after.

I have to say, it's really concerning that you keep talking about how excited you are about potential domestic terrorism.

Mostly peaceful protests and blowback in the media isn’t domestic terrorism.

Thought about throwing this a rec for the trolling but I'm not gonna

[HisGrace]

They should spin this off into a Turbotax commercial.

"Don't know if you can write off the money you used to pay off a porn star as a tax break? Come to Turbotax, stay out of federal prison, and have more time leftover to own the libs on Truth Social"

[HisGrace]

Trump already got the impeached

Is "the impeached" an STD Trump and Clinton caught from Stormy Daniels and Monica Lewinski, respectively?

[HisGrace]

That's why it's gonna be a landslide Eday it's not gonna be a typical Eday

If your landslide Eday lasts for more than four hours seek immediate medical attention

[HisGrace]

If Trump could be prosecuted for mishandling classified documents, couldn’t Biden and Pence be as well?

The issue isn't so much Trump took classified docs by accident. It's that he knowingly hid them from the Feds. From all reports, Biden and Pence alerted the Feds immediately when they discovered the docs.

They don't do nuance. Your 35 words is way too complicated of a concept for most Trumpers to wrap their heads around.

[HisGrace]

keeps his mouth completely shut for the rest of his life (in the public forum anyway)

I'd want a full on vow of silence.

[HisGrace]

Trump only ask Pence to overturn the election in an "aspirational way"

[tweet]

I guess a bank robber can ask for all the money in an "aspirational way" as well maybe?

If you're asking if it's illegal to go into a bank and say "Can I have all of the money in your vault?," the the answer is no.

I think the difference there is the bank giving someone money of their own accord is not a crime, Pence overturning the election is. Asking people to commit crimes on your behalf is generally a crime in and of itself as well.

[HisGrace]

What is the time table on when Trump might go to jail if convicted? I would assume there's an appeals process. Really don't think he would have much of a chance in that case, the Feds can't tell NY who they can put in jail and swing voters aren't going to want someone being president from jail. He'd struggle to get even 45% (which is still way too high but would keep him from winning)

[HisGrace]

This is that dictator type insecurity as seen with Franco and Mussolini or Putin right now.

[HisGrace]

Not even sure what they were thinking with the mistrial, they're the ones who brought sex into it. If all you can do to defend yourself is ask for a mistrial that should tell you something.

[HisGrace]

Defense had a good day, for once, and made Cohen look bad, but impugning his credibility on the call about the prank caller doesn't erase all the other circumstantial evidence, or the evidence of the Trump tower meeting, which they didn't even attempt to touch it seems. It was all character attack on Cohen.

Not sure why it was such a good day, Cohen is not the one on trial and none of that had anything to do with the charges.

[HisGrace]

The only direct evidence that Trump knew about the scheme to falsify the business records is Cohen's testimony. So if they can convince jurors that his testimony can't be trusted that might given them reasonable doubt as to Trump's knowledge of the scheme. And they definitely showed that he has lied about a lot of things in the past. Not saying it's enough to doubt his testimony (not like we weren't expecting it), or to conclude there isn't enough other circumstantial evidence that Trump knew they were falsified, but it's the biggest glove they've laid on the prosecution's case so far.

The thing is, even if Cohen is slimey and has lied about some things, the point at the end of the day is - you don't need to believe Cohen 100% in everything he says, you just have to believe Cohen when he talks about the Trump records part of it. And given the other circumstantial evidence that supports Cohens claims, that at least backs up Cohens claims about that situation, outside of whether Cohen is telling the truth about other things.

Right, all kinds of organized crime convictions occur where the key witnesses are deeply immoral and dishonest people. What matters is if his testimony fits the outline of facts which it does. "This person has lied before" is not the big own they think it is, I mean he was Trump's lawyer so no **** what do you expect?

Even red avs are buying into Republicans bad faith muddying of facts here because they've been so persistent about it.

[HisGrace]

I mean Trump is sleazy too so why don't we send him to jail just for that?

[HisGrace]

No, because by bringing the case through a proxy they can claim they are not involved, when in fact they are.
And don't play dumb.
Bragg would never have brought the charges if Biden had told him not to.

Why didn't Biden just tell Vance to bring the charges? He passed on this case.

Biden didn't tell anyone to bring any charges.
He just didn't stop anyone from bringing charges.

Either you're very confused or just trolling at this point.

Could be both.  They're not mutually exclusive.

Opinions you don't like =/= trolling. You can't muzzle every single person who disagrees. You'd have to mute or get rid of every single Republican, independent, or non-conformist Democrat on this forum.

I mean I'm as independent as it gets per my sig but I don't make bad faith non sequitur excuses for Trump's corruption so I'm probably good.

[HisGrace]

Well just popping in to say I was right the whole time and our doomer red avs were wrong. Let's hope they're wrong about the election too.

Pretty pathetic response from even Susan Collins which shows you where the Reps are at this point.

Let's also remember Republicans constantly calling Hillary Clinton a "felon" throughout the 2016 campaign despite her not even being charged (let alone indicted or convicted of anything) but then they're now going to nominate an actual felon for president.

[HisGrace]

Also let's remember how it was automatically assumed Clinton would drop out were she even indicted of anything. Almost like the Dems still have some actual standards.

[HisGrace]

If Biden announced support for pardoning Trump, a lot of obscure DNC bylaws would be scoured very deeply.

There's no advantage to him doing this, Trump cultists aren't voting for him no matter what. Biden and the Dems need to beat him over the head with this. 34x convicted felon Donald Trump.

[HisGrace]

If Biden announced support for pardoning Trump, a lot of obscure DNC bylaws would be scoured very deeply.

There's no advantage to him doing this, Trump cultists aren't voting for him no matter what. Biden and the Dems need to beat him over the head with this. 34x convicted felon Donald Trump.

"Biden can unite the country by letting Trump go" is a genre of take that I've now seen multiple times in the last six hours, even outside the post upthread. The only thing he would unite would be the Democratic Party in completely justified fury and a desire to learn how loosely the term "pledged delegates" can be interpreted.

I just don't think a pardon would pick up Biden a single vote. It can't hurt with voter enthusiasm either since the election may end up being a referendum on whether Trump should go to jail. Biden needs to dispense with the "when they go low" BS and bring up Trump being convicted 34 times as much as humanly possible. If that kind of repetition worked with Clinton's emails no way it can't work when an actual crime is committed.

[HisGrace]

This is not a glorious day but a victory for Rule of Law, no person is above the Law

olawakandi says in one sentence what most of you take paragraphs to say. Truly the great mind of our time.

[HisGrace]

So this is going to be an unpopular opinion. But even though I agree with the verdict and I believe Trump is an absolutely terrible person, I think it would be in the best interest of Biden to pressure Hochul into pardoning Trump. It would be a real opportunity for Biden express that he’s a president for all Americans- and it completely strips Trump of his martyrdom argument. We’re in a completely unprecedented moment in American history right now and it is important that Biden take control of the narrative. If he doesn’t, Trump will, and we can only speculate about the violence that he’s willing to unleash on the country in response this conviction.

Biden would get zero credit for that. Are you honestly telling me one single braindead Trump cultist is going to be like "hey he pardoned Trump, what a great guy!".

Trump is a crybaby and a whiny little b****. He's going to have a victimhood narrative no matter what because all he does is complain like a child on a road trip, which is apparently what around 45% of the country thinks a "real man" is in 2024.

If they want to unleash violence be my guest, do another J6 right before the election and see what happens.

This isn’t about a two tiered justice system. This is about keeping the damn country together. Half of my posts on this forum are about how much I don’t like Trump and how I believe he’s a danger to democracy. I’ve made it very clear where I stand on him. My issue is that instead of being vulnerable and reaching out to people on the right, people on the left have a “better than you” attitude and instead chose to harass and name-call them, further emboldening people on the right to adopt a victim mentality (of which Trump is the ultimate representation). And people with that mentality will eventually use that mentality to justify physical violence. Does the rise in militia membership, constant social media dogwhistles, and the rescripting of the January 6 attack as a “patriotic demonstration,” not signal to you that what you’ve been doing for the past few years hasn’t been working?

Times of crisis require leaders to show courage and to do things that are unpopular. We’re approaching one of those crises again. Biden is the President- the most powerful person in the country, and he has to do something to demonstrate to all Americans, not just those on the left, that his commitment to keeping the country together is genuine. If he doesn’t, people on the right will turn to Trump, and the lord only knows what kind of ugly things Trump is willing to unleash on our country.

If Trump killed someone or raped a child would you be against convicting him to "keep the country together"? If not then that's not the issue, whether he committed a crime is. I don't recall any of the wingnuts chanting "lock her up" being worried about keeping the country together.

Ultimately "it would hurt my feelings if you convicted me" isn't a legitimate defense in criminal law.

[HisGrace]

Jesus Christ. Why all the simping for two-tiered justice systems here? Seriously. The endless bootlicking for criminal politicians has become insufferable here. You hunch-backed weirdos all write this crap knowing full f#cking well that Joe Blow would be getting his ass rammed in prison right now if he committed one-tenth of the degree of crimes the likes of Nixon or Bush or Trump have committed.

There has to be a reason for it. Is it the same reason multiple users worship warmongers like Scoop Jackson or LBJ on here? Are we so ingrained in the doings of the political establishment that we do their propaganda work for them, in the hopes that one day we, too, might become like them or enjoy the same prestige? Do you want to sit with daddy in the big chair one day?

Is that all you’ve got? Do you seriously have nothing better to do than come and white knight for (legally and/or morally compromised) scumbag politicians? Are you the head of a nursery? Is that what you do? You are a child. You are a child. You are a child.

This isn’t about a two tiered justice system. This is about keeping the damn country together. Half of my posts on this forum are about how much I don’t like Trump and how I believe he’s a danger to democracy. I’ve made it very clear where I stand on him. My issue is that instead of being vulnerable and reaching out to people on the right, people on the left have a “better than you” attitude and instead chose to harass and name-call them, further emboldening people on the right to adopt a victim mentality (of which Trump is the ultimate representation). And people with that mentality will eventually use that mentality to justify physical violence. Does the rise in militia membership, constant social media dogwhistles, and the rescripting of the January 6 attack as a “patriotic demonstration,” not signal to you that what you’ve been doing for the past few years hasn’t been working?

Times of crisis require leaders to show courage and to do things that are unpopular. We’re approaching one of those crises again. Biden is the President- the most powerful person in the country, and he has to do something to demonstrate to all Americans, not just those on the left, that his commitment to keeping the country together is genuine. If he doesn’t, people on the right will turn to Trump, and the lord only knows what kind of ugly things Trump is willing to unleash on our country.

.... How is pardoning someone who committed 34 acts of criminal conduct and letting them off the hook, setting the precedent that presidents can do whatever they want, and be okay even if they are found guilty by a jury, "keeping the damn country together?"

I'm sorry but these takes are absolutely asinine. You don't keep the country together by letting criminals off the hook. You keep the country together by following the rule of law and showing that actions have consequences, just like they would for you and me.

Anyone that is pushing this argument is being incredibly disingenuous and deep down likes Trump. Sorry, but that's the truth.

George W. Bush literally ran a torture program and we never held him accountable. Barack Obama killed an American citizen with a drone strike without any due process, we never held him accountable. Bill Clinton has been credibly accused of numerous sex crimes, we never held him accountable. Reagan and Bush Sr. illegally sold weapons to Iran to fund a proxy war in Nicaragua without Congressional approval - never held accountable. Heck, Trump is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Yeminis due to funding Saudi Arabia's illegal war there. Yet nobody cares. But hush money to a porn star? THAT is when we start "holding power accountable"? No, it's a stupid joke and a waste of time. New York should be embarrassed with itself, perhaps that's why it's population is decreasing. The hypocrisy is enraging and you are a partisan hack. Period

Presidents have wide latitude in foreign policy. Those aren't analogous situation to a former president committing statutory crimes in the United States. And there's not anything remotely close to a preponderance of evidence that Reagan or Bush had anything to do with Iran-Contra or that Bill Clinton raped anyone, vibes are not the same as evidence, which also goes for bad faith comparisons of this with H. Clinton's document issues.

[HisGrace]

So this is going to be an unpopular opinion. But even though I agree with the verdict and I believe Trump is an absolutely terrible person, I think it would be in the best interest of Biden to pressure Hochul into pardoning Trump. It would be a real opportunity for Biden express that he’s a president for all Americans- and it completely strips Trump of his martyrdom argument. We’re in a completely unprecedented moment in American history right now and it is important that Biden take control of the narrative. If he doesn’t, Trump will, and we can only speculate about the violence that he’s willing to unleash on the country in response this conviction.

Biden would get zero credit for that. Are you honestly telling me one single braindead Trump cultist is going to be like "hey he pardoned Trump, what a great guy!".

Trump is a crybaby and a whiny little b****. He's going to have a victimhood narrative no matter what because all he does is complain like a child on a road trip, which is apparently what around 45% of the country thinks a "real man" is in 2024.

If they want to unleash violence be my guest, do another J6 right before the election and see what happens.

This isn’t about a two tiered justice system. This is about keeping the damn country together. Half of my posts on this forum are about how much I don’t like Trump and how I believe he’s a danger to democracy. I’ve made it very clear where I stand on him. My issue is that instead of being vulnerable and reaching out to people on the right, people on the left have a “better than you” attitude and instead chose to harass and name-call them, further emboldening people on the right to adopt a victim mentality (of which Trump is the ultimate representation). And people with that mentality will eventually use that mentality to justify physical violence. Does the rise in militia membership, constant social media dogwhistles, and the rescripting of the January 6 attack as a “patriotic demonstration,” not signal to you that what you’ve been doing for the past few years hasn’t been working?

Times of crisis require leaders to show courage and to do things that are unpopular. We’re approaching one of those crises again. Biden is the President- the most powerful person in the country, and he has to do something to demonstrate to all Americans, not just those on the left, that his commitment to keeping the country together is genuine. If he doesn’t, people on the right will turn to Trump, and the lord only knows what kind of ugly things Trump is willing to unleash on our country.

If Trump killed someone or raped a child would you be against convicting him to "keep the country together"? If not then that's not the issue, whether he committed a crime is. I don't recall any of the wingnuts chanting "lock her up" being worried about keeping the country together.

Ultimately "it would hurt my feelings if you convicted me" isn't a legitimate defense in criminal law.

Those are actual crimes with a clear victim. I'd have no problem with anybody, regardless of whom, being prosecuted for that. In fact, there is good evidence that Trump may very well be guilty OF EXACTLY THAT, yet Democrats aren't calling for any investigations into Trump-Epstein connection, even though that actually would politically destroy him.

A bookkeeping error is not an any way a crime worth prosecuting, let alone against a former president and current candidate. Let me ask you, would you be okay with some right wing prosecutor from Scranton, PA pressed charges against Biden because years ago he got a parking ticket and never paid it off in full. Would that be okay with you? Even if said offense happened 40 years ago?

This isn't a "bookkeeping error" he deliberately destroyed financial records to cover up using campaign funds to pay blackmail money. That's not analogous to an unpaid parking ticket. If Biden has unpaid parking tickets he should pay them and if it's been long enough he might lose his driver's license or something. There aren't the same kind of consequences for that that there are for this.

[HisGrace]

Apparently conservative world has decided that Republican politicians should be immune from all criminal prosecution. If this is their platform then by all means I hope they go for it. "Politicians should be above the law" is not popular in the real world.

Not sure how they're going to fulfill their long standing dream of sending Obama and the Clintons to jail then.

[HisGrace]

https://twitter.com/newrepublic/status/1796615647444468189

Lock him up

[HisGrace]

Once again - if Joe biden was convicted on 34 felony counts, this coverage would absolutely not be like this. It would be days of 5-alarm fires saying that Biden should drop out immediately. With Trump it's all seen through the lens of his "base" and how it can "benefit" him

I think the issue with this is that establishment Dems and especially Dem leaning independents (like me I guess) actually have some standards and would abandon a convicted felon. The 45% or so floor for Republicans is just so brainwashed that nothing can shake them from their vote. Hopefully that's all Trump gets and he loses.