Israel general discussion

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Soldiers shouldn't speak against the state and treason shouldn't be allowed in schools (or anywhere, for that matter, but that's going to come soon too), that's correct.

In other news, the arch-progressive High Court has given yet more proof (not that it was needed) why its powers should be curbed by giving the state 30 days to show why women can't read the Torah in prayer services at the Kotel. High time to place the rabbis above the High Court on matters involving Judaism.

Why? Would you be fine with the Supreme Court, or that of Netherlands, getting its powers curbed? This is a direct attack on Israeli democracy.
Also, I don't see the problem with women reading Torah. They're humans too, aren't they? Whether the Orthodox Establishment likes it or no, people are getting tired of them. They're making many in Israel (including me) feel hostility to the Jewish religion, and that's a crime. The Rabbinate's iron grip over everything from marriage to burial has to end, and Israel has to recognize the Reformist and Conservative Jews. It's mind-boggling that the Jewish State is the only one not recognizing them, and it's also a direct insult against the American Jews who're so invaluable to Israel.

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-08/jerusalem-truck-attack/8168824

This is total crap. I cannot see what the Palestinians could be possibly hoping to achieve.

If anything, it just sets their cause back.

It's not 'the Palestinans'. Certainly not Mahmoud Abbas, as you said, he doesn't have anything to achieve. These kinds of attacks are mostly one person deciding to act on his own, sometimes he's encouraged or aided by an organization like Hamas or ISIS, but most of the times he acts independantly while claiming to belong to some organization. This time it appears to be ISIS, which is not related to any Palestinian leadership.

Yeah, 'cause Abbas and Fatah would NEVER encourage terrorism   They're moderates!

Sarcasm aside, these destroyers of peace are not embarrassments to their families, they are heroes to them.   They see in these "martyrs" heroes who have "watered the pure earth of Palestine with their blood" (actual quote by Abbas).  Cut this "one person deciding to act" bull sh**t.  It's one person after one person after one person all encouraged from birth by their family, their culture and their govt that people that do these horrible acts are people to be admired and remembered.  That they'll will be rewarded in the after life and that their families will be rewarded for the "sacrifice" too.  It's all very disgusting.

Abbas thinks moving the US embassy to Jerusalem is a road block to peace?  Does he know what else is a road block to peace?  Driving over people waiting for the bus.  You know what's an even bigger road block to peace?  Encouraging more of the same.  There will never be peace until the culture there gets fixed.  Israel can't change it anymore than I can.

I was only speaking about the current, specific attack.

MK itzik Schmoli endorses Peretz in the Labour leadership race

Eh. Peretz already failed many times, why would he be any more electable now? Besides, he's considered a bad Minister of Defence, and the people's existential fear was a major reason for Netanyahu's victory last time.

By the way, small, random detail- the cannabis legislation party, Ale Yarok, announced on their Facebook page that they're supporting Netanyahu and don't want him to be indicted, because the current government is making some progress on cannabis and they don't want Lapid. I guess they've officially given up any chance  to get seats.

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What about Erel Margalit? I guess his popularity rose with Labour grassroots recently. Does he have a chance? I'd say that out of all the candidates, he and Gabay are the only ones who can bring back some hope for the Labour party.

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Erel Margalit is a terrible candidate. Ultra capitalist and in favor of a grand coalition with Likud. Right-wing on the economy and right-wing on peace. Who does he appeal to? Who would vote for him?

Swing voters, old and young.

As to his odds, it's an enigma as he doesn't have a clear base but has enough money to recuperate it.

Also I don't think he's ultra capitalist, very Blairite, for increased government spending on infrastructure/health/poor areas, with reasonable wiggle room for free market initiative. His economic policy is not that different from Labour's 90s policy or other current moderate MKs. He was for a coalition last time around he was actually the most vocal opponent of it since the last GE. His view on the peace process is obscure. From what I hear a lot of voters who moved to Lapid find his politics appealing, Peretz and Shelly have no such attraction

Also, he did present a plan on the conflict- it seems to involve cooperation with Arabic countries, and he definitely is for a 2 state solution. By the way, being for entering the government last time is a plus for me. A united secular government had a larger chance to achieve gay rights and perhaos even a peace agreement than a government with the Jewish Home.

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- Police informs that there additional two criminal investigations against Bibi, one regarding the said purchase of submarines and the other on unspecified offenses for now.
The end is near, this is starting to look like the end of Olmeret on steroids/

- Ayoub Karah (Likud) has been appointed a minister without portfolio, he is by far one of the more comical characters in politics. Eli Cohen (Kulano) was appointed as Minister of Economics.

- Ministry of Justice published a report recommending the decriminalization of marijuana. Minister Shaked surprisingly agreed. Finally some good news I guess

Was Kahlon the Economics minister anyway, or did Bibi grant Kulanu another ministry? Perhaps in an attempt to stop them from acting against him because of the corruption charges.

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Got a text message from Labour party, new poll:
Margalit- 28%
Peretz- 26%
Avi Gabay (former Environmental Protection Minister who left the Netanyahu government nd joined Labour)- 17%
Herzog- 8%

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Got a text message from Labour party, new poll:
Margalit- 28%
Peretz- 26%
Avi Gabay (former Environmental Protection Minister who left the Netanyahu government nd joined Labour)- 17%
Herzog- 8%

The actual poll does say Amir Peretz is winning any possible head to head. Shame

As to those figures some say they are fake and it's actually 8/26/28/17 (in the order you specified). I'm not sure what to make of this

Got a new text from Labour. Now they're presenting a new polls, or the same one, with different results:
Peretz- 32.5
Yachimovich- 17.5
Gabay- 16.7
Margalit- 11.5
Herzog- 10.4
Omer Barlev- 4.3

Weird. I guess if they don't run, Barlev supporters will mainly go to Margalit and Yachimovich supporters to Peretz. He seems almost inevitable here. Seems like voters of all parties have a painfully short memort.

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Ehud Barak is almost dead on back to Labour. He will join a number of bland ex generals who announced their intentions the past few days.
Labour general secretary elections are overת Hermoni managed to win the second round with 50.5% over Fink's 49%. Hermoni was backed by everyone part for the Shelly camp. He will be designated number 7 on the list so he will be an MK next time around.

Fro absolute denial to going Ardogan on the media clear and increasing signs of panic are discernible in Bibi's remarks on his criminal problems. He's going down and it's going to be a dirty fall

Lol, typical Israeli typo
Anyway, surprised and disappointed that Harmoni won. He seems much more boring than Fink. In any case, these elections showed just how much the Labour needs a shake-up. Two boring figures who were there just because of their ties to powerhouses. This position should've been given to someone with some star power, like Biran.

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There is nothing democratic about unelected activist judges overturning decisions made by elected politicians. The argument that ending Israeli courts' excessive powers would somehow end liberal democracy doesn't fly with me either, as I live in a country that is generally viewed as a liberal democracy yet courts here don't have the right to constitutional review. Politicians have the last say and that's what's really democratic.

Hnv1's answer is unconvincing to me, though I obviously believe most people with a law degree in Israel are left-leaning. Time to put a bunch of Itamar Ben-Gvirs on the court to restore the balance, I'd say. Courts overturning a law like this would increase support with the public to make the changes necessary (though Ben-Gvir remains unlikely, lol). If a more right-wing PM takes over after Netanyahu is gone and the right somehow gets a majority without the Kulanu cucks, it can be done.

Though I disagree with your opinion about the judiciary system, I can respect it because it's well-thought and not pure populism.
However, I will say this- Itamar Ben Gvir is one of the few politicians I feel no hesitation calling fascists as ideologically bad as neo-nazis. He and his band of raving lunatics, such as the Lehava 'organization' (in '' because they're the closest thing to Jewish terrorists since the Kah movement and should be outlawed) are all disgusting.

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There were, if I remember correctly, two police raids on two different municipalities in the past two weeks. This reminds me of the discussion we had here a few months ago- the municipal authorities in Israel are corrupt to the core. A drastic solution is needed.

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I didn't think I would ever say it again, but at this point I'm glad to have Netanyahu at the helm. Under the Trump presidency it remains important to be cautious in taking any steps that would limit the number of options in the future. Annexing area C in its entirety would be the height of foolishness, and while I align ideologically with some of the people on the Likud right, they are manifestly unfit to lead the country. Perhaps I'm becoming more of a moderate, but I think Netanyahu is handling the relationship with the Trump administration the right way.

I'd agree a few months ago, but right now, Netanyahu is really unhinged, especially in foreign policy, because of his panic caused by the corruption allegations. I think he made an enemy of about three harmless countries including Mexico. But so far, even with Netanyahu's frantic leadership, I'm not scared of the Trump administration, there are way too many people (e.g., Kushner) who to prevent drastic steps against Israel.

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Yawn on the trump 2 states comment, I take his words with nothing but salt.

Back to party politics. All parties like JH/Likud/Labour/Meretz are getting ready for an election.
Some new groups in Likud gained some attention like the Liberals and the new Likudniks. Both plan on getting their men in. Herzog is recruiting a bundle of bland ex-generals to have a "right" looking list. Galon wants open primaries in Meretz, while Gilon and his gilonjugend are suddenly again after they got enough people in as convention delegates.

Elections coming this fall. Stay tuned

Do you think that Galon will be successful in her attempt? If not, I suspect Meretz is doomed. Galon might resign because of that, as she's putting everything on it.

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Yawn on the trump 2 states comment, I take his words with nothing but salt.

Back to party politics. All parties like JH/Likud/Labour/Meretz are getting ready for an election.
Some new groups in Likud gained some attention like the Liberals and the new Likudniks. Both plan on getting their men in. Herzog is recruiting a bundle of bland ex-generals to have a "right" looking list. Galon wants open primaries in Meretz, while Gilon and his gilonjugend are suddenly again after they got enough people in as convention delegates.

Elections coming this fall. Stay tuned

Do you think that Galon will be successful in her attempt? If not, I suspect Meretz is doomed. Galon might resign because of that, as she's putting everything on it.

Probably not, too many of delegates wouldn't want to lose their power but let's wait there's a call for a snap vote in May. If that fails in that case we might see a snap election for a new convention. If that fails I honestly don't see how the party could carry on as a whole, the internal institutions are dysfunctional due to internal strife for almost a year and a half now.

If she fails/Gilon gains the leadership I will resign as a delegate and leave the party

Out of interest, in that case, who would you vote for, or where would you go politically?

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So it seems like despite strongly denying, Eitan Cabel and Shelly Yachimovich made a political deal when she decided to run for Chair of the Israeli General Worker's Organization. Discovered in a voice recording of Cabel, where he pretty much destroyed his political career by admitting that he doesn't give a f*** (his words, kinda) about anything other than his own personal gain.

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Avi Dichter saying he's going to run against Bibi in the next Likud primaries.
Ya'Alon saying he's forming a new party...political savvy is not a good description of him.
Amiram Levin (another ex general) is running to head Labour, yes another one

What's the current list of Labour candidates?
Peretz, Margalit, Herzog, Bar Lev, Gabay, Amiram Levin? I guess Cabel won't run after the recordings.

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Avi Dichter saying he's going to run against Bibi in the next Likud primaries.
Ya'Alon saying he's forming a new party...political savvy is not a good description of him.
Amiram Levin (another ex general) is running to head Labour, yes another one

What's the current list of Labour candidates?
Peretz, Margalit, Herzog, Bar Lev, Gabay, Amiram Levin? I guess Cabel won't run after the recordings.

Add Eldad Yaniv, Yom Tov Samia, and the latest prof. Avner Ben Zaken (who is a self pretentious git and a mediocre scholar)

So more pretenders than expected seats.

Currently if I had to rank them by preference then: Margalit, Levin, Bar Lev, Gabay, Samia, Herzog, Yaniv, Ben Zaken, Peretz.

Mine is probably: Margalit, Gabay, Levin, Bar Lev, Samia, Yaniv, Peretz, Herzog and Ben Zaken.

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Ya'alon's new party has the potential to hurt YA and Kulanu more than Likud.

Yeah, these "brave moderate hero!!!1111" parties almost never do any great harm to the right wing. Though, with that said, without Kulanu Netanyahu wouldn't have enough to form a right wing coalition.

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http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.775331

Marijuana decriminalized. I don't really follow Israeli domestic politics but it's not really surprising to me, considering the amount of relatively open marijuana use I saw there.

Yeah, it's been moving in that direction for quite long. The majority of Israelis seem to be moderately socially liberal, so it's probably a concession to satisfy them without angering the religious parties.

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Meretz convention rejected Galon's proposal for open primaries.  New leadership elections announced Avalon vs Gilon.

Derii has been making weird break the government noises, I wonder if he's just the messenger...

Ya'Alon to start a new party, Levi-Aboksis to start a new party, Feiglin's new party will hold open primaries

Looks like the election is coming soon. Any chance Levi-Aboksis changes her mind and joins Ya'Alon or something? We don't need yet another party, and she'll never pass the mark anyway. She's just not that great of a politician, just very principled.
Also, Avalon? Did you mean Galon or did I miss an awful lot in my school's annual trip?

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According to Netanyahu lackey David Bitan, he has rescinded his agreements with Kahlon about the new Public Broadcasting Corporation, and it will not be allowed to start. A huge shame, since it looks like a fresh wind and a good replacement for the awful and dusty IBA.
This might be what will trigger the elections. I wonder if any indictment can be fielded against Netanyahu before it becomes much harder to do.

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Herzog is making noises of trying to form an alternative government. For this feat to succeed, he'll need Yesh Atid, Kahlon, the Haredi Parties and Meretz. In other words, impossible.

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You are off the mark, Likud has been trying to pick fights with junior partners for weeks now. This is Bibi's strategy, he does not want an indictment served.

If Lapid and Kachlon had any wits to them they would have let Herzog form a government for several months to see Bibi out, but there's no chance Isra-Trump Lapid will agree

Yeah, I kept getting these crazy news updates whenever I  could check my phone, but this current thing seems to be the most explicit.

Meanwhile, Transportation Secretary Israel Katz (who already clashed with Bibi on the Shabbat train maintenance works) becomes the first Likud minister to speak up against Netanyahu, saying that going to elections because of the Broadcasting Corporation is mad.

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Both Bennet ad Lieberman oppose an early election. Bibi is in quite a pickle

Bennet? Odd. Why would he not want an election where he's likely to gain?

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Both Bennet ad Lieberman oppose an early election. Bibi is in quite a pickle

Bennet? Odd. Why would he not want an election where he's likely to gain?

He and Shaked are sitting in good positions and want to have more impact (especially with 2 more nominations for the supreme court next year), and he would rather go to an election from the opposition on some right wing platform not the media.
Liberman wants more time as MoD to consolidate is position as elder statesman.

question is what will they do if Bibi seems determined to pull the trigger, will they support a Kachlon temporary government?

I think Lapid will really be the determining factor here. I don't see Bennet and most of the Labour MKs ever sitting in the same government, while Lapid has been rescinding his anti-Haredi rhetoric. The problem is that he probably wants an election while the momentum is with him.

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Both Bennet ad Lieberman oppose an early election. Bibi is in quite a pickle

Bennet? Odd. Why would he not want an election where he's likely to gain?

He and Shaked are sitting in good positions and want to have more impact (especially with 2 more nominations for the supreme court next year), and he would rather go to an election from the opposition on some right wing platform not the media.
Liberman wants more time as MoD to consolidate is position as elder statesman.

question is what will they do if Bibi seems determined to pull the trigger, will they support a Kachlon temporary government?

I think Lapid will really be the determining factor here. I don't see Bennet and most of the Labour MKs ever sitting in the same government, while Lapid has been rescinding his anti-Haredi rhetoric. The problem is that he probably wants an election while the momentum is with him.

Also Peretz and other Labour contenders might thwart it...stupid people who can't think strategically. Peretz and Lapid with their massive bloated ego especially

Omer Bar Lev also tweeted his opposition to going for an alternative government. It's funny because he might not even survive as an MK if an election is held now.
Also, Erel Margalit tweeted that Labour must elect a leader in the next 30 days and prepare for elections. It seems to contradict his previous agenda.