North Korea Mega Thread

[AtorBoltox]

So not wanting nuclear war means you hate America?

[AtorBoltox]

So not wanting nuclear war means you hate America?

Literally no one said that.  If we went to war, God forbid, and you don't support America in that war, then that is standing against America.

Seriously people, this isn't a hard concept.

                                                                                                                                               But literally no one said they'd support North Korea in a war against America either, all they said is that this war shouldn't happen. You then said these people hate america. Seriously, this is the exact same rhetoric that was used in 2003.

[AtorBoltox]

I support any efforts to stop nuclear war. Trumps stupid blustering and sabre rattling does not do this. Opposing the presidents actions does not mean you want North Korea to win. Get that through your thick skulls

[AtorBoltox]

So not wanting nuclear war means you hate America?

Literally no one said that.  If we went to war, God forbid, and you don't support America in that war, then that is standing against America.

Seriously people, this isn't a hard concept.

                                                                                                                                               But literally no one said they'd support North Korea in a war against America either, all they said is that this war shouldn't happen. You then said these people hate america. Seriously, this is the exact same rhetoric that was used in 2003.

I never said anyone did.  I was talking about what Fuzzy Bear said when he said that not supporting America in a war is being anti-America.  Is that not the proper terminology?  In a war against North Korea, we would all be anti-North Korea.  We would be un-North Korean in opposing North Korea's dictatorship and heinous actions.

What is this dross                                                                                                                                         

[AtorBoltox]

The world finds itself in this precarious situation thanks to eight years of inactivity and wimping out by Obama.  

North Korea first nuclear test- Oct 9 2006

[AtorBoltox]

The hysteria over this is completely unwarranted. North Korea has absolutely nothing to gain by nuclear war

[AtorBoltox]

I'm pretty sure no one actually wants the United States to get nuked. That's the whole point of criticizing Trump's approach to the situation so far. He's made the odds of nuclear war higher than they would be with a more level headed person at the helm. Not going into denial and acting like everything's being handled just fine doesn't mean you want a war to break out.

I've highlighted the crux of the immediate issue. 

You say the problem is Trump's approach.  Is that really true?  Trump has conveyed to the North Koreans that there will be real consequences that will occur if they keep making nuclear threats toward the US.  Is there a consequence to not responding, kicking the can down the road some more, that is preferable?

Or, perhaps, we could do the truly revolutionary, and try talking to them? North Korea isn't run by the sanest group in the world, but they are rational enough to recognize their self-interest lies in avoiding a nuclear confrontation with the United States while also safeguarding itself from the fate of other non-nuclear enemies of America, e.g. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya. They have very legitimate reasons to hate us, considering what we did to them during the Korean War, into which we asserted ourselves without any threat to our nation. That war resulted in the death of 600,000 North Korean civilians, 406,000 North Korean soldiers, while the US dropped 635,000 tons of bombs, 32,557 tons of napalm, and virtually annihilated their infrastructure with every substantial building in the country destroyed, the majority of cities and villages mere rubble, and was so severe it forced factories, schools, hospitals, and so on underground, and compelled them to dig mud huts and tunnels underground for housing.

The Communist regime that followed the war helped to solidify its power over the demolished nation by scapegoating the United States and fear-mongering about our desire to recreate the destruction wrought upon them during the Korean War. Since the North Koreans were already traumatized, isolated from the West, and forced to rebuild a broken country, they were susceptible to such propaganda, which aided in empowering the regime to continue despite its intolerable cruelty, extreme poverty, and total isolation. Without the American bogeyman, which we helped and continue to help them create, they may have collapsed already. Instead, with every threat or rumor of threat by the United States, the North Korean propaganda machine can gin up fervent nationalism among its populace, which serves the regime's interests. The best thing we could've done, aside from staying out of the Korean War, was ignore them and let the regime implode. But now, we're giving them exactly what they want.

A reignition of conflict on the Korean Peninsula would almost certainly result in civilian casualties at levels unseen since the Vietnam War. It could also result in the first use of an atomic weapon on civilians since WWII. Seoul, a city of 9,914,381 people and metro of 25,600,000, could come under immediate, sustained, and extraordinary assault. Countless artillery and warheads will be launched into major civilian centers throughout the Korean Peninsula and, possibly, into Japan as well. Considering North Korea has threatened Guam, that may even be a target. American military bases in the region house tens of thousands of American troops, placing them in immediate danger. A tactical nuclear strike in the region, if successful, could not only result in instant death for tens of thousands via incineration, but severe physical injury, psychological trauma, and long-term consequences resulting from cancer causing pollutants, which could be spread throughout the fallout zone. When North Korea falls, which it would from the war, then who knows what they may do with their nuclear material or into whose hands it may fall. Add to that a massive wave of refugees will break the Chinese border, attempting to escape the unrelenting aerial, sea, and eventual land bombardment, triggering a humanitarian crisis that would rival, if not dwarf, that of Syria and Iraq.

There are alternatives to such a nightmarish war scenario. We should not only entertain, but pursue those aggressively, so that we may avert such a crisis. Only if North Korea attacks us first or we discover a legitimate active plan to attack American territory, bases, or allies, should we engage in a military confrontation. Anyone who says otherwise is completely devaluing the lives of millions of Koreans and tens of thousands of American soldiers, and for what?

For what? A chance to look tough on tv

[AtorBoltox]

Do conservatives actually trust Trump to lead America safely and effectively through a war with a country like North Korea? That's a serious question. We all have seen Trump behave, all the lies he tells, the erratic decision making, the knee-jerk reactions that had zero forethought. I get that I see Trump differently than a Republican does, but Trump's absurd, often-unhinged behavior should make everyone, including conservatives, nervous as hell in this situation.

And on a personal note, I'd like to state that it currently my dream that we go through at least one Republican administration that doesn't drag us into war with someone. I mean for the love of god, we are barely even done with Iraq and Afghanistan!

Iraq was entirely unnecessary. However, in this instance we actually do have an imminent and credible threat.

And the most clueless person we could possibly pick to handle it.

He isn't clueless if he's competent enough to become President of the United States. I'd rather call him clever.

Did you fall into a coma 9 months ago
And just wake up?

[AtorBoltox]

Why exactly can people not realise that the North Korean regime is not suicidal and will not launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike which would not benefit them in any way and result in their annihilation?

[AtorBoltox]

This is utter insanity, however per the Guardian "There was no change in US deployments in the region or a change in the alert status of US forces" after Trump's statement. At this point American foreign/military policy and Trump's ramblings are two separate things