American democracy has ground to a halt.

[darklordoftech]

Although I am opposed to corporate money in politics this idea out there that getting it out of politics would de-polarise things is completely wrong. Corporate money often goes to moderate and centrist candidates. If donations only came from small time donors, only conviction politicians who were not centrists would get elected and politics would polarise far more. Normal partisans are not going to give money to centrists, only corporations will, in fact  I would argue big money has prevented American politics from polarising at a faster rate.

Now I think polarisation is occurring because unlike the 1950’s the population is far more heterogenous in its world views, and different voting groups have radically different world views, a fact that inevitable leads to polarisation. Elites are not responsible for polarisation, when you have for example one group that is traditionalist and believes in traditional gender roles and family organisation and another who is totally opposed to that worldview and wants to get rid of the old family structures you are going to get polarisation, it’s not a question of whether some people are good or evil it’s just that with very different worldviews you get polarised politics.
Another example would be if some voters believe in god and are highly religious and that is the foundation of their life and their moral guide and another group think believing in god is like believing in the tooth fairy and don’t recognise religion as a valid reason for someone to think something is immoral behaviour you are going to get intense polarisation.

Just on corporate money, I want to get to rid of it because it stops the people from choosing their politicians properly, I think polarisation is a good thing as it allows for a real clash of ideas and corporate money advantages candidates who just want power and not those that have strong ideological convictions. I want to see debates between Old Testament believers and militant atheists on the floor of congress.  

A good thing about polarization is that sometimes The Horseshoe Effect results in the two extremes being correct and the center being wrong and there’s certain things where ideologues on both sides tend to agree on something but the establishment feels otherwise. For example, William F. Buckley and the hippies both wanted to legalize marijuana, but the establishment and centrists wanted to escalate the War on Drugs.

[darklordoftech]

Congress worked fine until Reagan got elected and inspired an entire generation of true believer legislative bomb throwers to go into politics. Polarization is primarily the GOP's fault but the media with its insistence on bothsidesism doesn't want to say so.

Yes, Polarization Is Asymmetric—and Conservatives Are Worse

Tribalism Isn’t Our Democracy’s Main Problem. The Conservative Movement Is.

Political Scientist: Republicans Most Conservative They've Been In 100 Years

The 1980s were one of the least polarizing decades since the 50s at least when it comes to the public.

 

The public is never polarized. The public has no deeply held political beliefs. It is the elites and activists who are polarized, not the public. For the umpteenth time....only the political parties are polarized.

Ok let me say voting patterns were the least polarizing in the 80s then it has in any decade since the 50s

Once again...voting patterns weren't that polarized in the 80s because the political elite that made-up the parties weren't polarized and still tried to find common ground. (remember this was before right wing talk radio and FOX ''news'') That shiit is gone today. Mitch McConnell is a sociopath who has no problem tearing down whatever norms exist in his way and Trump has no problem launching a borderline civil war to keep himself in office.

The voters have no real opinions on anything. Their opinions are whatever the party tells them to believe and under Trump, they will continue to be borderline insane with a fervent need to punish the other side for made-up reasons.

They were less polarizing the they were in the 60s and 70s as well .

I think the 60s and 70s would be better described as “social polarization” than as “political polarization”. Nonetheless, that ultimately lead to “polarization burnout”.

[darklordoftech]

Congress worked fine until Reagan got elected and inspired an entire generation of true believer legislative bomb throwers to go into politics. Polarization is primarily the GOP's fault but the media with its insistence on bothsidesism doesn't want to say so.

Yes, Polarization Is Asymmetric—and Conservatives Are Worse

Tribalism Isn’t Our Democracy’s Main Problem. The Conservative Movement Is.

Political Scientist: Republicans Most Conservative They've Been In 100 Years

The 1980s were one of the least polarizing decades since the 50s at least when it comes to the public.

 

The public is never polarized. The public has no deeply held political beliefs. It is the elites and activists who are polarized, not the public. For the umpteenth time....only the political parties are polarized.

Ok let me say voting patterns were the least polarizing in the 80s then it has in any decade since the 50s

Once again...voting patterns weren't that polarized in the 80s because the political elite that made-up the parties weren't polarized and still tried to find common ground. (remember this was before right wing talk radio and FOX ''news'') That shiit is gone today. Mitch McConnell is a sociopath who has no problem tearing down whatever norms exist in his way and Trump has no problem launching a borderline civil war to keep himself in office.

The voters have no real opinions on anything. Their opinions are whatever the party tells them to believe and under Trump, they will continue to be borderline insane with a fervent need to punish the other side for made-up reasons.

They were less polarizing the they were in the 60s and 70s as well .

I think the 60s and 70s would be better described as “social polarization” than as “political polarization”. Nonetheless, that ultimately lead to “polarization burnout”.

My opinion too. Still, as i may consider himself a sort of expert on "Bolshevism", what i see now in US is a two absolutely Bolshevicks (by methods) parties. Or, if you prefer -  our Russian "Reds" and "Whites" of Russian Civil War time. And - a country torn into two big camps visceraly hating each other (again - the same as in Russia 100 years ago) without any meditating and balancing forces.  You, probably, know how it's all ended in Russia. And i don't want the same fate for America. But you are definitely moving in that direction. In last decades - by leaps and jumps, not steps...

I think a big turning point was 1994, when Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Dick Armey (who also organized the “Tea Party” protests in 2009 and 2010), and Tom Delay purged the Republican Party of moderates and declared all compromise to be “socialism”.

[darklordoftech]

For those who denounce polarized politics, please remember in the early W. Bush years both parties had the same foreign policy and disagreed only slightly on domestic policy. That was only a decade and a half ago.

I sometimes have a chill down my spine when I hear people complain about polarization. It seems to me many would rather see the public mindlessly cheering any autocratic action for the sake of "national unity" then have unpleasant democratic debate.

I absolutely agree with this. The “liberal” media fell in love with W as soon as he started running and demonized Gore, a bunch of Democrats voted for the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, No Child Left Behind was passed almost unanimously by both Houses of Congress, the Democrats didn’t talk about Tora Bora or W’s environmental policy anywhere close to as much as they should have, the 2004 Democratic convention banned negative speeches while the Republican convention was ungrateful for the all the support that W received from Democrats, 9/11 resulted in anyone who wasn’t a gun-owning Evangelical getting called “unpatriotic”, etc., and to cap it all off, an actual child molester was Speaker of the House from 1999-2006.

If there was a  “golden age”, it was November 6, 1996 - April 19, 1999.

[darklordoftech]

From what I’ve read, the average person and the average voter aren’t the same thing. There’s plenty of people who don’t watch Fox News or MSNBC, but don’t vote.