Obama to hold mass rally for acceptance speech at Mile High Stadium

[Flying Dog]

Do you follow me around, are you a creeper or somethin'?

I can't believe you don't know how arrogant you are sounding right now. I lived in Saginaw for half my life, moving out when I was 9. I went to a Catholic elementary school that was half AA. Heck, we practically lived almost in the ghetto. (We moved when it got bad.) I've been there when racist cops arrested my friends for wearing their pants to low. I've been there when my neighbor was shot for trying to make the community better. I was there when my former Bishop got robbed in the middle of a parking lot when he was trying to better the lives of the poor. So don't tell me that I don't know what a black urban community is like.

I live in North Philadelphia, with a white population of three percent, and I know most of my neighbors, and attend their weddings and family funerals.  My priest is Black, as is 2/3 of my church.  My most recent girlfriend was Black and from the neighborhood (Sissy doesn't count).

Please don't think you understand understand the Black community anymore than Obama understands the those white small town people that he calls "bitter."

Fine. I just don't want you saying I'm a light year away from them and you know them better than I. I don't want to have to play the "I'm more black than you!" game.

It is true, however.  You think that because you are "fifteen minutes away" from a black neighborhood, you have special insight.  In actuality, Keystone Phil and Ice Hockey live 15 minutes away from a Black inner city neighborhood; I don't see either one claiming this.

Yes, I do now live in an 90% white neighborhood, but I used to live in a mixed neighborhood in Saginaw where neither race was dominate. It was about 60-40 white with very little segregation given the city. Though racial tensions where high and are high now for numerous reasons, I learned a lot even though I was young from having 7 AA families on my street and 13 or 14 white families on the street. You may live in an area where one race is dominate but have you lived in one where it's split 47-43?

Your problem is one that you share with Obama, and you've just illustrated the point.

We live in a culturally segregated society by race.  It's not legal thing, it's not enforced, it isn't even economic, but the outlook is different.  Some of it is urban versus nonurban.  Neither culture is superior to the other, but they are different.  In many cases, both cultures are interested in the other culture.

It happens both ways.  A lot of I was hoping that someone that represented both cultures, politically, like Obama, could relate to both.  His remark shows he doesn't.  His rally in a stadium has the same effect; it doesn't reach that segment that he doesn't relate to.

So how would a regular conventions speech that hold 20,000 people look so different? How would that reach people more than the stadium speech?

[Flying Dog]

Yes, I do now live in an 90% white neighborhood, but I used to live in a mixed neighborhood in Saginaw where neither race was dominate. It was about 60-40 white with very little segregation given the city. Though racial tensions where high and are high now for numerous reasons, I learned a lot even though I was young from having 7 AA families on my street and 13 or 14 white families on the street. You may live in an area where one race is dominate but have you lived in one where it's split 47-43?

Yes, or close too it, and in areas with less than a 1% Black population as well.  It's clear you just don't get it.  Sorry, but Saginaw isn't exactly North Phila. 


Your problem is one that you share with Obama, and you've just illustrated the point.

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Because the bigness itself hurts, in increases the gulf between Obama and the voter.  This makes him look like he's setting himself apart.

BTW, I finally heard Jesse Jackson's remarks.  Yes, he's right about the appearance of talking down, but just not to Black people.  So now you have it in black and (semi) white.

Clearly, your correct. Saginaw isn't North Philadelphia.  However, was Philadelphia ranked the 14th most dangerous Metro area in the nation? Come to Saginaw, Detroit or Flint to see what poor economic conditions can do to race relations.

You're over analyzing the impact the Convention speech is going to have. If Obama is seen as elitist, it won't be because of the convention speech. Opening the Convention isn't going to hurt Obama. I don't think there will be any effect either way, However, I could easily make the counter-argument that the speech will likely help him because he's opening it up to non-party insiders. I think it is inconsequential either way though. 

[Flying Dog]

Clearly, your correct. Saginaw isn't North Philadelphia.  However, was Philadelphia ranked the 14th most dangerous Metro area in the nation? Come to Saginaw, Detroit or Flint to see what poor economic conditions can do to race relations.

You're over analyzing the impact the Convention speech is going to have. If Obama is seen as elitist, it won't be because of the convention speech. Opening the Convention isn't going to hurt Obama. I don't think there will be any effect either way, However, I could easily make the counter-argument that the speech will likely help him because he's opening it up to non-party insiders. I think it is inconsequential either way though. 

Philadelphia was supposedly the murder capitol of the US.  No, you can come to North Philadelphia, but stay a while.  Don't drive through with your doors locked.

No, I am saying that doing the speech this way reinforces the idea that Obama is an elitist, and that is not good.

That'd be Detroit. Whatever though, you can think I haven't been in those situations when I have. I have nothing to prove to you.

It reinforces the idea for people who want to believe it. (i.e. you)

[Flying Dog]

Clearly, your correct. Saginaw isn't North Philadelphia.  However, was Philadelphia ranked the 14th most dangerous Metro area in the nation? Come to Saginaw, Detroit or Flint to see what poor economic conditions can do to race relations.

You're over analyzing the impact the Convention speech is going to have. If Obama is seen as elitist, it won't be because of the convention speech. Opening the Convention isn't going to hurt Obama. I don't think there will be any effect either way, However, I could easily make the counter-argument that the speech will likely help him because he's opening it up to non-party insiders. I think it is inconsequential either way though. 

Philadelphia was supposedly the murder capitol of the US.  No, you can come to North Philadelphia, but stay a while.  Don't drive through with your doors locked.

No, I am saying that doing the speech this way reinforces the idea that Obama is an elitist, and that is not good.

That'd be Detroit. Whatever though, you can think I haven't been in those situations when I have. I have nothing to prove to you.

It reinforces the idea for people who want to believe it. (i.e. you)

Now it seems to be Jesse Jackson as well, though I believe the term was "talking down to."  It is a problem and he's running a risk of making it worse.  If you are an Obama supporter, pray for rain.

I don't see how anything involving Jesse Jackson attacking Obama is bad for Obama.

[Flying Dog]

I don't see how anything involving Jesse Jackson attacking Obama is bad for Obama.

Anyway, as I said elsewhere, this decision to break with the convention tradition annoys the hell out of me.

You know that John F. Kennedy did the same thing, don't you?

[Flying Dog]

I don't see how anything involving Jesse Jackson attacking Obama is bad for Obama.

Anyway, as I said elsewhere, this decision to break with the convention tradition annoys the hell out of me.

You know that John F. Kennedy did the same thing, don't you?

Not that that convinces me that it's ok since I am no fan of JFK. Please enlighten me though. I could have sworn that he accepted the nomination in the convention hall in LA.

He gave it at the L.A. Coliseum.

[Flying Dog]

I'd be even more pissed off if our nominee (either this year or in the future) decided to do this. Should we move the inauguration to Giants Stadium while we're at it? Or how about the State of the Union in the Superdome? Being at the actual convention makes it something. This is just makes it seem like even more of a typical rally.

That seems more like an aesthetic concern than something to be pissed at.  It's the anger part I'm missing here.

Anger because it's more of his "this isn't politics as usual. We're breaking the mold!" attitude just to feed that ego. Personally, I think this 100,000 person crowd is overdoing it and while that doesn't make someone's poll numbers dip, I do think some people will be rolling their eyes at Obama trying to be Preacher Obama at his megachurch.

I doubt many ordinary individuals will know that the convention was closed in the past and the people who do know won't care for the most part.

Or how about the State of the Union in the Superdome? Being at the actual convention makes it something. This is just makes it seem like even more of a typical rally.

Nothing in practice differentiates a modern political convention from a "typical rally" other than the fact that the convention is nationally televised.

Then don't even have the convention.

[Flying Dog]

This doesn't really make him "bad." It just annoys me. I also think this is a sign of his inflated ego. As I said earlier, these crowds don't really affect the viewers so I don't get why he doesn't just do this at the convention. Again, this isn't him being "bad," just irritating.

Right.  So it is more that this is circumstantial evidence of his inflated ego, than the act itself is bad?  That's a fair response.  It's what I've been trying to elicit.

Don't most politicians have "inflated egos?"

Of course. You have to to run for office, especially the Presidency. I think the argument being made here is Obama's ego is especially huge for a politician.

Do we have a meter now that measures politicians ego's?

[Flying Dog]

Considering the chanting "Obama" crowds are being used in negative commercials, it might be a good idea to pray for rain.

I don't think that's really relevant.

[Flying Dog]

Considering the chanting "Obama" crowds are being used in negative commercials, it might be a good idea to pray for rain.

I don't think that's really relevant.

I do, because of image it creates.  Obama is playing into that image, and it has a potential of costing him votes.

I know we've had this 'discussion' before and I know neither of us is going to change each other's mind, so....