'Modal' Libertarians

[angus]

Not sure I buy Murray's analysis either.  I was raised to believe Republicans and Libertarians were selfish plutocratics.  The difference between the two lying mainly in the fact that one is a warmonger and the other is a peacenik.  Obviously, I've outgrown that familial brainwashing.  But I still beat up on libertarians from time to time.  And even I don't say things that nasty (or that innacurate)  And Harry Browne never claimed any disdain for religion in general, or christianity in particular.  Many Libertarians are practicing monotheists.

Those were my initial thoughts.  However, upon reflection, I see that he isn't suggesting LP people fit this description, just that there's a "mode" of libertarianism into which these modal libertarians fit.  What's the mode?  One of anti-authoritarianism.  Not too far off the mark, by my reckoning.  And this is what I like about 'em.  The disdain of religiosity (and in particular monotheism, and most particularly evangelical protestantism) is a major turn-off.  A return to Jefferson's America certainly includes an abiding (or at least grudging) respect for religious tolerance.  I suspect it is this fascistic element within the "mode" of libertarianism which keeps would-be libertarians, myself included, from an embrace of the philosophy.  (As in, I find overtly religious people annoying too, but I don't wish them assassinated.  On the contrary, most true christians I've met tend to be hard-working, trustworthy, and honest.  It's only when they start with the "I'll pray for your eternal soul" nonsense that I start to think they're deluded.)  But, I find many modern Democrats to be at least as full of anti-Christian bigotry as Libertarians.  In fact, usually more so. 

Then there's that and the whole every-man-for-himself plutocratic agrarianist tendency to which libertarians succumb. 

That said, Ayn Rand was, for the most part, correct.  Question Authority!  Always.

[angus]

I don't know of many Libertarians who are Randroids. They are much more of a tiny minority than this description would suggest.

True, because Rand loathed libertarians, calling them "right-wing hippies", and "hippies" were way down there with Kant as far as Rand was concerned. Her main beef was that, although libertarians shared her political and economic views, many of them didn't reach those views in what she considered to be a philosophically sound manner. She also believed that far more people had to be educated as to the benefits of a free society before there was any point to having something like a Libertarian Party. Although I agree with most of her views, I think she was out to lunch on these points. However, saying so would be heresy to a Randroid, and so most of them are, in fact, Republicans.

intelligent synthesis, and simply stated.  I think you hit the nail on the head.  You need only replace the independent clause "I think she was out to lunch..." with "And she was exactly right..." and you'd have it perfectly correct.

[angus]

yes, fair enough.  The hyperbole was intentional, in fact.  But the point made by swarch (an excellent restatement of Rand) struck me as precise.  Even having read and enjoyed several Ayn Rand works, I never quite framed it that way in my head, but nevertheless, but then Rand never came out and said that to me.  (I must admit that I'm more familiar with the fiction than the historical and political essays.)  The implication that Jeffersonian idealism can be taken selectively, in the hands of a gun-toting, tax-evading, binge-drinking, pot-smoking, whore-chasing Joe Sixpack, so as to form a general danger to the cultural whole, is a relevant consideration.  (here I'm bordering on authoritarian/socialistic pervasiveness, which you may regard as heresy)  Then again, I'm not a true rightist, but rather a centrist, and too little government doesn't hold the appeal to a "moderate" republican the way it would to Ayn Rand. 

Nevertheless, though I enjoy impugning the Libertarians, I respect their general purism and lack of hypocrisy (so rampant in the two major US political parties.)  I'm still a bit bothered by some of the more fringe planks in the party's platform. 

What's your position on maintaining a standing Army/Navy?

And, if I may ask, although the US constitution certainly doesn't justify them, is the concept of the public school an offense to you?

Those two issues, and a third, abolition of the IRS, are the main points of inhibition for many would-be libertarians I suspect.  (plutocrat is a fighting word, and I apologize for using it so frequently and inaccurately.)

[angus]

I am a Model Young Democrat.  I am very rebellious... just not against the government.  I still think that the government is generally out for the good of the people, because I have not encountered something known as the 'IRS' yet.  I think, in general, hippies were good-minded people, nevermind what happened after the Vietnam War.  I think that Communism is a good system, unfortunately tainted by Stalin and Mao and the like.

Oh, yeah, hippies are good:  trashed Max Yasger's farm, showed about as complete environmental insensitivity as is humanly possible.  Wasted fuel, drugs, minds, their own lives in many cases.  Glorifying communism is one thing.  I'll stipulate that "from each according to his abilities and to each according to his needs" is a humanitarian philosophy, at least in principle.  But don't glorify hippies.  They were foul-smelling, lazy, environmentally insensitive, self-righteous sellouts who grew up to become Reaganites.  I can't think of any demographic who shouldn't have a serious beef with the "tune in, turn on, and drop out" culture.

[angus]

  gotcha! 

(damned hippy communists!)

been to the corner of haight and ashbury streets lately, by the way?
very yuppified.  I think there's a "Galactically great brownie store" which sells a seven dollar cup of coffee on one corner, a book store on another which does well with Hillary Clinton bios, an upscale clothing store that'll sell you a tie-died Tee made in an indonesian sweatshop, and a little curio shop on the fourth corner.  (it's usually closed, but priced way beyond the reach of most folks).  Also, you can watch the tourists and born-again "hippies" move their Suburban Assault Vehicles occassionally when it's street sweeping time.

"Are you going to San Francisco?
Are you going to put flowers in your hair?"

"Naw, thought I'd have a latte and chew on a $3.50 bagel while speaking on my mobile phone to Michael Moore about an anti-Bush rally and maybe download some anti-Bush flyers on my IBM thinkpad for posting on Ashbury street."