Do you agree with the Catholic church on the Freemasons?

[JSojourner]

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/

Interesting stuff.

Seems like a crackpot conspiracy theory site to me. I could be wrong, though.

Bingo.

My wife's grandfather was a mason.  And a member of the United Church of Christ.  His masonic lodge buddies had a small memorial service before the funeral to which the family was invited.  I had grown up hearing all sorts of innuendo, mumbo jumbo and hocus pocus about the Masons, so I was worried there would be some sort of nonsense or heresy.

Nothing of the kind.  They put an apron on the corpse because it represented his service to God and humanity.  And because, the Masonic leader said, "as he is covered by this apron, we recognize that his sins are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ".

Sounded pretty Biblical to me, actually. 

Now, if the Masons are devil worshipers, they've done a bloody good job of hiding it.  And while I wouldn't join, I wouldn't hesistate to donate money to one of their projects to help disabled children.  They do great work.

[JSojourner]

Masons should be prohibited from holding political office.

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/

Interesting stuff.

Seems like a crackpot conspiracy theory site to me. I could be wrong, though.

Bingo.

My wife's grandfather was a mason. And a member of the United Church of Christ.  His masonic lodge buddies had a small memorial service before the funeral to which the family was invited.  I had grown up hearing all sorts of innuendo, mumbo jumbo and hocus pocus about the Masons, so I was worried there would be some sort of nonsense or heresy.

Nothing of the kind.  They put an apron on the corpse because it represented his service to God and humanity.  And because, the Masonic leader said, "as he is covered by this apron, we recognize that his sins are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ".

Sounded pretty Biblical to me, actually. 

Now, if the Masons are devil worshipers, they've done a bloody good job of hiding it.  And while I wouldn't join, I wouldn't hesistate to donate money to one of their projects to help disabled children.  They do great work.

Good to know he was a member of a church that produces such hallmarks of piety as Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Yep.  He loved Jesus with all his heart.  And cared deeply about the poor and needy of his community.  Grandpa Erbie was famous for baking bread or going fishing and then taking the fruit of his labor to shut ins, homeless shelters or senior centers.  When he discovered that an older man down the street was living in squalor after suffering a stroke, he personally cleaned up both the man (he bathed and shaved him and washed his clothes) and his home.

We always tried to tell him what a wonderful example he was.  And he would have none of it.  He would say thinks like, "Considering what Jesus has done for me...how could I do any less for those he cares about?"

Yeah -- shame on the United Church of Christ for turning out disciples like that.

[JSojourner]

Good to know he was a member of a church that produces such hallmarks of piety as Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Tell me your church Bono and I'm sure I can dig out a stinker who is a member and then tar you by association

I'd be interested in this also. 

And as to the social gospel, it's not an either-or prosition.  Jesus gave us the Great Commission:  "Go into all the world, preach, baptize and make disciples".  And Jesus also gave us the Great Commandment: "Whatever you have done to the least of these, you have done unto me." 

I agree that, in the period from the 50's through the 80's, many mainline Protestant and Catholic Churches showed preference for the Great Commandment and disregard for the Great Commission.  Shame on them.  But shame also on Evangelicals who, for just as long or longer, have eschewed the Great Commandment and embraced only the Great Commission.  And more often than not, they reject the Great Commandment because it requires personal sacrifice.  They prefer the Great Commission because they believe all it requires is flapping your gums about Jesus and identifying those who are damned to hell.

[JSojourner]

Good to know he was a member of a church that produces such hallmarks of piety as Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Tell me your church Bono and I'm sure I can dig out a stinker who is a member and then tar you by association

That's what I thought.  Now, the question becomes -- which wing of the PCA are we talking about?

There's the Bible-based, Christ-centered wing represented by this guy...

http://www.keylife.org/

And then there are these clowns, some of whom remain in the PCA and some of whom have splintered...

Gary North of the Institute for Christian Economics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_North_(Christian_Reconstructionist)

North has his followers and disciples too, most still in the PCA but several now deceased.  These include David Chilton, Kenneth Gentry Junior, D. James Kennedy, Gary DeMar and Andrew Sandlin.  I'm not sure any of them (except possibly Chilton) ever advocated the state sponsored execution of homosexuals, witches and abortive women like North has.  But each has argued that Christianity must use the sword and the pen to conquer all other religions and take control (or Dominion) of government...in the US and abroad.

So color me torn on the PCA.  People like Steve Brown are a credit to a wonderful, solidly Evangelical church that exists to reach people for Jesus Christ and help those in need.  But people like North are the absolute antithesis to both American Democracy and the teachings of Jesus relative to those who "sin differently" than the rest of us.

I'd be interested in this also. 

I'm unchurched due to logistical issues, but I identify with the Presbyterian Church in America in the United States.