Psychiatry as Astrology (user search)
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Author Topic: Psychiatry as Astrology  (Read 4775 times)
Tetro Kornbluth
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« on: September 03, 2009, 07:31:08 PM »
« edited: September 03, 2009, 07:35:12 PM by Ghyl Tarvoke »

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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2009, 07:36:19 PM »

Let me just say that I, and for good reason, am very suspicious of any condition which is entirely a bunch of symptoms without any apparent cause.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2009, 07:38:29 PM »

He's from an FF university, that's for sure Grin

Shhh... Quiet you. Wink
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2009, 07:40:08 PM »

On this note, has anyone ever read Thomas Szasz?
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2009, 03:45:23 PM »

I was hoping you would respond Verin.

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Irrelevant. What he is basically saying is that there is no known causation for any available "mental illness" and that this is contrary to any widely perceived view that it is. He is also saying that no evidence has been shown to link genetics with any mental illness and those that say that there is were already going out of their way to find some.

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#1 How many forced migrants actually part of the total British population of migrants though? I can't imagine it is a huge percentage
#2 The migrant comment is a criticism of the genetic view of mental illness. Of course it isn't a random sample of the population. That's the point - their experience of migration or experiences associated with it (loneliness, for example) are causing the problem. Yet we blindly proscribe drugs for every god damn mental problem based on a flawed purely biological approach to human beings.

Unless of course you wish to argue that migrants are somehow genetically different or more predisposed to be mentally ill than native British people. But I don't think you want to go down that road.

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Again, It is not meant to be a random sample of the population. Your point is irrelevant. He is comparing Group A "People who were separated from their parents at an early age" to Group B "those that didn't" and Group A are far more likely to be "mentally ill". While I can't point to the study in question; how is that study not properly scientific?

And note none of this mentions Biology.

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See above.

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Que? Relevance?

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Wallbang.

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Okay that last bit is certainly true. But don't you remember what you said about Correlation and Causation.

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No doubt. But so are you, just a different form of "common sense".

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Okay I agree that this is an exaggeration. But the point is here

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Great! Rating people on a completely arbirtrary numbering system!

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Okay this is a problem. But has nothing to do with scientific status of biological psychiatry. And everything to do with the perception of it by insurance firms (which gives lie to the view that the opinions of this author are "common sense").

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Yes. Which just shows how "scientific" (read: not at all) these disorders actually are. Apparently there has been a several fold leap in Autism in the past 10-20 years - and new syndromes are being found all the time. But how many of these Autistics are diagnosed in a matter akin to a medical diagnosis - in cancer there are tumours, in Autism there is ??

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Which of course tells us nothing at all about the accuracy of such a diagnosis

Stuff to read (just on schizophrenia for a start):

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/186/5/361
http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/004467.html
http://www.amazon.com/Protest-Psychosis-Schizophrenia-Became-Disease/dp/0807085928 (This from a professor who came by my university one day and gave a talk on this very book. Fascinating. Unfortunetly I don't have it to hand.)

Btw I will note that I am not arguing that genetics play no role in serious mental illness, however we define it. Rather I am arguing and so is the author is that we should focus on people's actual subjectivity and conditions of life rather than just giving them drugs and trying to find what is 'wrong' with them and labelling them.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2009, 05:09:43 PM »
« Edited: September 04, 2009, 05:12:31 PM by Ghyl Tarvoke »

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So you are suggesting that we should give patients medication from things which may or may not exist? For conditions diagnosed and subscribed entirely by the somewhat arbitrary opinions of fashion among doctors? The history of medicine, especially psychology, is not particularly pretty when it comes to inserting socioculture prejudice into its theories. Freud is a classic case of this. How else can we explain the sudden rise of conditions like ADHD, Aspergers and the like? How real are they? Or are they labels to either genetic predispositions or products of enviornmental upbringing (delete according to prejudice).

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They do? At a sufficient level compared to drugs for other biomedical conditions? (And let's not forget, alot of drugs taken here in these cases are actually placebos).

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I'm not criticizing the drugs per se. I'm criticizing the attitude behind the drugs. I don't doubt that drugs can help people in certain circumstances but to suggest that biology without any reference to human social life. To make clear, I'm against biological reductionism - the simple fact is that we don't know what causes schizophrenia, bipolar, depression and all these other conditions. To say otherwise is a lie. We know that there is sort of hereditary component as Verin will no doubt explain. But emphasize just the drugs and the biology is morally indefensible imo.

Actually in certain cases drugs can make the condition worse rather than better you know.

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Okay I admit that isn't entirely untrue (the philosophical prejudice bit anyway); but this is actually based on personal experience. Perhaps the title was a bit overblown. But hey attention.

I'm actually surprised you are against me on this. Given that you are the libertarian and have shown opposition to overly biological views of human beings in the past.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2009, 04:33:14 PM »
« Edited: September 08, 2009, 04:36:04 PM by Ghyl Tarvoke »

Thanks Verin and Bono, I will respond soon (just an original reply to Bono's post that was really long was eaten up to my horror by the computer). So think of this as a placeholder.

Just to add Verin I'm not claiming to know any causation just that there are certain things to be worried about. In the 1950s the majority of those diagnosed with Schizophrenia (in the United States) were white, now the vast majority are black. Don't you think this a problem?

Also, for the DSM on Autism, those are symptoms not actual signs of the condition. What's actually there is what I'm looking for.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2009, 04:38:58 PM »

Btw, I wish to point out I'm in no way trying to defend the worst aspects of sociology (or English Literature for that matter) teaching as done in many third level institutions in the United States.
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