A statement on recent events

[S019]

Oh god, where do I start.

Well first and foremost, I'm going to tell what this post won't be about, it isn't going to be about what you think it is about. Instead I'm going to comment on a certain double standard that I see.

So, to begin with, it seems that the intent is to suppress well founded controversies of the Federalist Party to continue to harangue the Labor Party over actions that did not actually violate the TOS. The fact that we have seen a desire to now infract discussions of actual actions that did violate the TOS is an alarming move away from the consensus that the TOS should always come before Atlasia.

Let's just start with the fact that LouisvilleThunder, as is well known by now, doxxed someone. It should be noted that the TOS forbids transmitting information that is "invasive of another's privacy." While this is such a broad term, it can be safely presumed that doxxing falls within this category. So, now you may enquire what has been done about such a blatant violation of the TOS by such a prominent political official. Well I regret to disappointment you by stating that no action has been taken none. Also with the recent hardline desire to promote discussion of the current plot, any discussion of this event would be deemed non germane or so it seems. Not to mention, the consequences of this event are obviously far more severe than the consequences of the plot, the fact that we focus so much on the latter than the former is frankly an indictment of us as a society, but also on the individual level, as people.

Unfortunately, LouisvilleThunder is not the only right winger to have committed blatant TOS violations. Fhtagn is someone with a long history of TOS violations, yet discussions of these are deemed non germane. In fact, when confronted on this she said that she thinks that merely being offended by the thought of fascist dictator Benito Mussolini going to heaven is abnormal. Unfortunately, when confronted on this issue, it was impossible to elaborate on it further, because it was deemed not germane yet again. To cite the specific part of the TOS to which this applies, language that promotes "racism, bigotry, and hatred" is not allowed. If saying that a man who committed mass human rights violations and aided Nazi Germany in their war crimes and genocidal actions went to heaven is not promoting bigotry and hatred, I don't know what is. So at this point, we must ask ourself, why is discussion of these issues being suppressed. Why does the opposition simply shut down any form of criticism of themselves, but it gets even worse.

Mr. Reactionary is another member of the right wing who is notorious for a history of TOS violations, including one where he compared me to a member of the upper crest of the Nazi Party, not only a blatant personal attack, but frankly an extremely disrespectful one which downplays the evil of fascist ideology. The fact that ideas resembling some form of right wing authoritarianism, though not doctrinaire fascism, are gaining support in our mainstream further underlines this need. But no matter the form of antidemocratic right wing authoritarianism, downplaying its threat is ridiculous.

However, this is not even the worst of this. The worst is that I am expected to reconcile with these people. I must put these issues aside so we can discuss an issue that has literally no TOS violations. At this point, we have reached the point where Atlasia seems to trump the TOS, this is a very, very dangerous path for the game to undergo, and more people should think about this and the implications it carries than whatever they currently think of.

[S019]

^ This does nothing to address my broader point, especially that derailing is apparently more important than doxxing someone. Until LT is sanctioned for what he did, I don't think the right has any leg to stand on here.

[S019]

^ This does nothing to address my broader point, especially that derailing is apparently more important than doxxing someone. Until LT is sanctioned for what he did, I don't think the right has any leg to stand on here.

The old "how can you attack Xahar, while defending Napoleon" trope. I am sure that will hold up in court.

What court? Trying this while letting LT off scot free would be utterly ridiculous. Also frankly if this is going to become a game where Discord plots matter more than the very real consequence of divulging personal information, then I'm not sure it's for me anymore. It's really a shame that this is getting far more oxygen than that incident.

[S019]

Oh god, where do I start.

Well first and foremost, I'm going to tell what this post won't be about, it isn't going to be about what you think it is about. Instead I'm going to comment on a certain double standard that I see.

So, to begin with, it seems that the intent is to suppress well founded controversies of the Federalist Party to continue to harangue the Labor Party over actions that did not actually violate the TOS. The fact that we have seen a desire to now infract discussions of actual actions that did violate the TOS is an alarming move away from the consensus that the TOS should always come before Atlasia.

Let's just start with the fact that LouisvilleThunder, as is well known by now, doxxed someone. It should be noted that the TOS forbids transmitting information that is "invasive of another's privacy." While this is such a broad term, it can be safely presumed that doxxing falls within this category. So, now you may enquire what has been done about such a blatant violation of the TOS by such a prominent political official. Well I regret to disappointment you by stating that no action has been taken none. Also with the recent hardline desire to promote discussion of the current plot, any discussion of this event would be deemed non germane or so it seems. Not to mention, the consequences of this event are obviously far more severe than the consequences of the plot, the fact that we focus so much on the latter than the former is frankly an indictment of us as a society, but also on the individual level, as people.

Unfortunately, LouisvilleThunder is not the only right winger to have committed blatant TOS violations. Fhtagn is someone with a long history of TOS violations, yet discussions of these are deemed non germane. In fact, when confronted on this she said that she thinks that merely being offended by the thought of fascist dictator Benito Mussolini going to heaven is abnormal. Unfortunately, when confronted on this issue, it was impossible to elaborate on it further, because it was deemed not germane yet again. To cite the specific part of the TOS to which this applies, language that promotes "racism, bigotry, and hatred" is not allowed. If saying that a man who committed mass human rights violations and aided Nazi Germany in their war crimes and genocidal actions went to heaven is not promoting bigotry and hatred, I don't know what is. So at this point, we must ask ourself, why is discussion of these issues being suppressed. Why does the opposition simply shut down any form of criticism of themselves, but it gets even worse.

Mr. Reactionary is another member of the right wing who is notorious for a history of TOS violations, including one where he compared me to a member of the upper crest of the Nazi Party, not only a blatant personal attack, but frankly an extremely disrespectful one which downplays the evil of fascist ideology. The fact that ideas resembling some form of right wing authoritarianism, though not doctrinaire fascism, are gaining support in our mainstream further underlines this need. But no matter the form of antidemocratic right wing authoritarianism, downplaying its threat is ridiculous.

However, this is not even the worst of this. The worst is that I am expected to reconcile with these people. I must put these issues aside so we can discuss an issue that has literally no TOS violations. At this point, we have reached the point where Atlasia seems to trump the TOS, this is a very, very dangerous path for the game to undergo, and more people should think about this and the implications it carries than whatever they currently think of.

I certainly agree with your point on the doxxings, especially given how easy it is to blur out personal information. There absolutely should be forum wide discipline against anyone who doxxes. That is something you should constantly bring up with moderation in a different folder. But LT should not ever be forgiven for intentional doxxing nor will he be.

This is where you're wrong, he has, at least by the right. They all gleefully support him as Southern governor and for President. Frankly, it's utterly disgusting behavior.

As for the other things? I’m sorry but I am strongly inclined to disagree. Fhtagn and MrReactionary have already been flagged for their TOS violations, and let’s be real those aren’t exactly severe offenses that pose real life danger. Those are things that are handled by moderation, not the mob, for good reason. While indeed their personal attacks and rhetoric outside of Atlasia absolutely at times have crossed the line, that is a separate issue and you trying to bring it up is downright pathetic if we are being honest.

It is not pathetic because the TOS does trump any Atlasia concerns and discussing TOS violations is a far more serious issue for forum culture.

And no you aren’t expected to be best friends with these guys, but you are expected to not instigate a motherf**king coup because you get bored with your power.

I did not instigate or plan that plot, please go find other talking points.

[S019]

Oh god, where do I start.

Well first and foremost, I'm going to tell what this post won't be about, it isn't going to be about what you think it is about. Instead I'm going to comment on a certain double standard that I see.

So, to begin with, it seems that the intent is to suppress well founded controversies of the Federalist Party to continue to harangue the Labor Party over actions that did not actually violate the TOS. The fact that we have seen a desire to now infract discussions of actual actions that did violate the TOS is an alarming move away from the consensus that the TOS should always come before Atlasia.

Let's just start with the fact that LouisvilleThunder, as is well known by now, doxxed someone. It should be noted that the TOS forbids transmitting information that is "invasive of another's privacy." While this is such a broad term, it can be safely presumed that doxxing falls within this category. So, now you may enquire what has been done about such a blatant violation of the TOS by such a prominent political official. Well I regret to disappointment you by stating that no action has been taken none. Also with the recent hardline desire to promote discussion of the current plot, any discussion of this event would be deemed non germane or so it seems. Not to mention, the consequences of this event are obviously far more severe than the consequences of the plot, the fact that we focus so much on the latter than the former is frankly an indictment of us as a society, but also on the individual level, as people.

Unfortunately, LouisvilleThunder is not the only right winger to have committed blatant TOS violations. Fhtagn is someone with a long history of TOS violations, yet discussions of these are deemed non germane. In fact, when confronted on this she said that she thinks that merely being offended by the thought of fascist dictator Benito Mussolini going to heaven is abnormal. Unfortunately, when confronted on this issue, it was impossible to elaborate on it further, because it was deemed not germane yet again. To cite the specific part of the TOS to which this applies, language that promotes "racism, bigotry, and hatred" is not allowed. If saying that a man who committed mass human rights violations and aided Nazi Germany in their war crimes and genocidal actions went to heaven is not promoting bigotry and hatred, I don't know what is. So at this point, we must ask ourself, why is discussion of these issues being suppressed. Why does the opposition simply shut down any form of criticism of themselves, but it gets even worse.

Mr. Reactionary is another member of the right wing who is notorious for a history of TOS violations, including one where he compared me to a member of the upper crest of the Nazi Party, not only a blatant personal attack, but frankly an extremely disrespectful one which downplays the evil of fascist ideology. The fact that ideas resembling some form of right wing authoritarianism, though not doctrinaire fascism, are gaining support in our mainstream further underlines this need. But no matter the form of antidemocratic right wing authoritarianism, downplaying its threat is ridiculous.

However, this is not even the worst of this. The worst is that I am expected to reconcile with these people. I must put these issues aside so we can discuss an issue that has literally no TOS violations. At this point, we have reached the point where Atlasia seems to trump the TOS, this is a very, very dangerous path for the game to undergo, and more people should think about this and the implications it carries than whatever they currently think of.

I certainly agree with your point on the doxxings, especially given how easy it is to blur out personal information. There absolutely should be forum wide discipline against anyone who doxxes. That is something you should constantly bring up with moderation in a different folder. But LT should not ever be forgiven for intentional doxxing nor will he be.

This is where you're wrong, he has, at least by the right. They all gleefully support him as Southern governor and for President. Frankly, it's utterly disgusting behavior.

As for the other things? I’m sorry but I am strongly inclined to disagree. Fhtagn and MrReactionary have already been flagged for their TOS violations, and let’s be real those aren’t exactly severe offenses that pose real life danger. Those are things that are handled by moderation, not the mob, for good reason. While indeed their personal attacks and rhetoric outside of Atlasia absolutely at times have crossed the line, that is a separate issue and you trying to bring it up is downright pathetic if we are being honest.

It is not pathetic because the TOS does trump any Atlasia concerns and discussing TOS violations is a far more serious issue for forum culture.

And no you aren’t expected to be best friends with these guys, but you are expected to not instigate a motherf**king coup because you get bored with your power.

I did not instigate or plan that plot, please go find other talking points.

1. The vast majority of voters do not nor will ever support LT’s disgusting behavior.

The majority in the South do, that is still too many.

2. So are you gonna argue that anyone with a violation should never run for office again? Moderation has already dealt with them, and if you didn’t like how they’ve dealt with them, why didn’t you bring it up persistently until the moment you conveniently needed an excuse to change the conversation?

My friend, my issue is that they try to lecture me on what's right and wrong and it just ends up as a case of the plot calling the kettle black. I am not going to be lectured by them of all people.

3. And yet here you are, trying to get everyone to ignore it. Are you listening S019, I was f**king rooting for you, I wrote your f**king name in protest on ballots in the past, and you then pull this. Do you have no sense of shame nor a bone of dignity in you? Why are you trying to downplay this? What is your gain here? Apologize to the people of this country, or does the S stand for spineless?

Quite frankly, the greatest sense of shame I have is not leaving this hellhole. I do apologize to the people, in fact, I apologize for continuing to allow this game to exist after the LT incident by not encouraging mass deregistrations as protest. I do apologize for that, I do apologize for not calling out this culture aggressively enough and letting it become entrenched as normal. What I do not apologize to the people for is for educating them on the actual truth about the opposition and not letting them be easily influenced by this controversy. I am proud to be giving people the full story here and letting them judge for themselves.

[S019]

I apologize for continuing to allow this game to exist

This is the exact same hubris that was written all over the logs and was likewise present in 2015. This attitude of self-righteousness, hubris and quite frankly disdain for other people, that makes a certain group every so often, elect themselves lord high executioner with the mission to destroy the game.

I think, after being on the receiving end of three of these very similar situations with this same attitude manifested, it is reasonable of me to ask why this mindset develops?

I literally said it'd be an act of protest, and it'd be up to people to decide whether to take a stand or not, this comment has no connection to the events recently and is being taken out of context.

What I do not apologize to the people for is for educating them on the actual truth about the opposition and not letting them be easily influenced by this controversy. I am proud to be giving people the full story here and letting them judge for themselves.

Right because Tack (who first prosectuted LT), Scott (Whose issues with LT are famous), WB (likewise), WxTransit (Likewise), and so on and such forth, did all they have the past month, because they just love LT so much?

Press X to doubt.

You guys screwed up, 1/6 style denialism, and whataboutery befitting a Republican Congressman, ain't gonna change that fact.

The other thing is and since you are so concerned about getting the full story. The strategy was to goad LT to the point that his ego made him become the face of the opposition, thus ensuring that the plot would succeed because a unified opposition could not form.

Fortunately LT did the smart thing, and for the most part, kept his mouth shut and that was the first big setback for the plotters.

You keep saying "you guys," as if this was my idea or that I was a part of it, but I was not. These are simply alternative facts being pushed, all I am voicing is my discontent at the fact that LT is allowed to get away scot free and that incident is barely being discussed.

What court? Trying this while letting LT off scot free would be utterly ridiculous.

You know what, screw it. I am going to go there.

What I want to know is how it can became the general narrative in the Labor discords of the world, that LT getting off with a DoJ run by Dirty Fing Harry himself and a Supreme Court 4-1 Labor aligned was anything other than the result sheer rank incompetence on the part of Labor somewhere (Due note I am not attacking Tack here, he had RL stuff and frankly real life should trump the game).

The only real delay on LT's side was inability to find an attorney. People (Jambles) presumed I could, should and thus would be so but I had conflicts in game and RL obligations likewise that had to come first. Regardless of how much you despise LT, he still has a right to counsel in a trial under the law, not that you care much about that sort of thing. Even so it was not the result of any delaying actions on LT's side that the first attempt failed, it was because Tack wasn't able to continue.

His replacement, whose incompetence should by now not be in a doubt in anyone's mind, blew a whole month working on a meme secessionist effort in the Northeast before deciding, "let's try LT again".

If there wasn't such rampant hubris and narcissism going around Labor discords, their should have been an acknowledgement that it was a screw up. Instead, Crane went after Windjammer in a rather embarrassing episode and you guys peddled this "obstruction" angle, which is not what happened and if it did, a competent prosecution would have dealt with it.

What you are saying is, the Truman wing of Labor screws up and the game has to die at the hands of Truman's crew because of it? That because your crew couldn't successfully carry out a prosecution, you have immunity for all future crimes?

Again you keep saying "my crew," as if I'm part of this, when I wasn't, and I had no knowledge of those private chats until the rest of you did. I can't really respond to alternative facts, so I can't say much more here. Also anyone actually in Labor discords knows that hubris is the exact opposite of what goes on there.

Let's just start with the fact that LouisvilleThunder, as is well known by now, doxxed someone. It should be noted that the TOS forbids transmitting information that is "invasive of another's privacy." While this is such a broad term, it can be safely presumed that doxxing falls within this category. So, now you may enquire what has been done about such a blatant violation of the TOS by such a prominent political official. Well I regret to disappointment you by stating that no action has been taken none. Also with the recent hardline desire to promote discussion of the current plot, any discussion of this event would be deemed non germane or so it seems. Not to mention, the consequences of this event are obviously far more severe than the consequences of the plot, the fact that we focus so much on the latter than the former is frankly an indictment of us as a society, but also on the individual level, as people.

Are you saying that the game should be responsible for TOS enforcement? You said in one breath that the forum administration (TOS) should be above the game and the next minute you are saying they should be mixed?

At least try to get your bs somewhat straight S019.

1. LT's TOS violation was an issue for the forum administration and it was addressed by the forum administration at that time. You may disagree with the severity of the sanction, but this is the wrong board for that.

Given that well the events happened within the context of Atlasia, an Atlasia sanction may also be appropriate.

The Game doesn't enforce the TOS.

2. The game internally has a law that prohibits doxxing. LT was prosecuted under that law (see my previous post).

Yes, and the case failed, but there is still the ability for the South or for the Federalist Party to sanction him, whether it be impeaching him as Governor or simply expelling him from the party. There are actions that you could've taken other than just the courts.

3. In case you guys are confused, I am a Moderator, not Modadmin, not Admin, just a moderator of a low traffic board. I am just a band-aide man at best. Someone posts information here on this board, I can delete it, edit it out etc (which I did Monday morning). But if it is not on my board (or offsite), that is beyond any power that I have. I offer my input on what should be done, others offer theirs, but I don't make the final decisions (I have a lot of respect for those who do, because someone will always be pissed now matter how you play it).


I generally put a lot of thought into what I delete and moderate and I ask YE's opinion frequently.

Again my issue is more that there are 5 different threads on this issue and we can't talk about other issues like fhtagn's bigotry.

4. YE as modadmin has moderator access to all boards and basically functions as a defacto co-mod for these boards since it is low traffic comparatively speaking and thus doesn't warrant a second dedicated one now a days.

Ok, that's fair.

5. The only things I have threatened to moderate in this situation are "spam/fake oaths" in the swearing in thread and I threatened to split a topic that was getting off task (without infraction).

When there are five other threads about the topic, I think discussion about other topics is an entirely valid issue, so I would not support this move.

So S019, you can drop the faux mod fascism angle.

I never claimed anything about "mod fascism," my complaints were with how the right wing has handled all of this. The closest thing that I claimed about "mod fascism" was the desire by some people such as Mr. Reactionary to overlook actual TOS violations and gleefully threaten witch hunts against those who got too carried away by Discord memeing.

Oh god, where do I start.

You are not going to win a battle of words with Yankee, friend. Please cease.

I know, but the goal is sometimes to not win, it is simply to perform well enough.

calling me "Eichmann"...

When additional information was brought forward that forced Eichmann into admitting what he had done, Eichmann would insist he had no authority in the Nazi hierarchy and was only following orders.

kindly f--- off

Attacking my religious views makes you a bigot.

META: Unfortunately, religious freedom onl? applies to non-Christians in the minds of an increasing number of folks in this country.

Are you serious? Should we go and ask other Catholics like Harry as to whether or not Mussolini is in heaven?

[S019]

Yes, and the case failed, but there is still the ability for the South or for the Federalist Party to sanction him, whether it be impeaching him as Governor or simply expelling him from the party. There are actions that you could've taken other than just the courts.

So your argument is that because the Federalists and the vast majority in the South have "a differential of legal interpretation of a particular event", you have immunity to violate Atlasian law as you desire?

It isn't a "different legal interpretation," it's a clear violation of privacy and it is far worse than anything that the people in the chats were planning, as once again it actually hurts the forum community, which should trump concerns about Atlasia. The argument is simply that is hypocritical to attack people accused of plotting while condoning what LT did and not calling for him to step down, given members of the right have called on those involved in those chats to resign. It frankly would send the wrong message, if LT is not punished first.

[S019]

S019, as much as you say you were not involved, you just supported OBD's slate because you always vote Labor, whatever, the fact is:

1. You were a candidate designed to be part of the 14-15 Labor/NKT/RevCom Senate.

I mean yes, I was there to represent the right wing of the labor movement. To reign in the excesses of policy that may be implemented without regard for the health of the modern economy, especially since if such a Senate was to occur, it'd likely pursue mass nationalization which would be disastrous for the economy and lead to a return of stagflation. I actually did privately voice concerns that we were running too many candidates, so I actually did not know what was going on, but I did run to represent the right wing of the labor movement and I would've served even in a 14-15 Senate for the above reason.

2. You created a thread designed to investigate "fraud" by the Federalist Party, and demanded certain users submit PMs to you, which would be a TOS violation for them to do (even if rarely enforced)

I mean I assumed that people would have a humor bone and recognize that that was all unserious and I went along with solely to motivate the opposition and hope that they could unite on a unifying message. It is actually sad when I have more coherent ideological arguments against the government than the opposition does. The opposition cannot continue to dwell on this if it wants to build off its success at the last election.

3. You created a poll designed to take focus off of the Kansas Crisis and onto supposed "fraud" that the Federalists were planning according to you.

See above.

4. As voting was beginning, you posted a "report" in which you detailed various grievances with  the Atlasian System and concluded that "adjustments" must be made to the result of the election - Oddly enough, Truman was apparently planning to do just that had things not leaked out the way they did.

Again, see above. I was not at all aware of this plot.

I'll acknowledge that you're not in the leaks directly. But it is made clear that you started your "investigation" based on orders from those who were directly involved. So it's very hard to believe that [nearly] everything was concealed from you - particularly since your report suggested the very thing Truman was planning to do - probably an accidental admission rather than a strange coincidence. And it's also very clear that you have no objection to anything OBD, Truman, or whoever did or was planning to do.

Well it was, and if you don't believe that I don't know what to say. It seems all of this suspicion off of me knowing something is based on the fact that Atlasia in its current form is clearly unsustainable and no one is interested in making any sort of reforms.

[S019]

I don't necessarily see the game as being in some sort of dire state. We had 18 candidates for At-Large with the write-ins. We had 9 candidates getting a vote or having a vote transfer to them for Lincoln General Court. We had at least 2 candidates in each subregional race - several  had three. The South also had several more candidates than seats to allocate, and 3 candidates for Governor. True, turnout leaves something to be desired among the registered voter base as a whole. But the people that are here are eager to serve the game.

Again, most of these people only ran because of the plot, otherwise we very well could've ended up with a candidate shortage again.

With the plot having been exposed, we are formally impeaching Truman and OBD (disappearance and deregistration notwithstanding) to avoid them causing any additional damage. We are removing agents of OBD from the government. We are bringing back SoIA and reinstating the SOS and SoFE to take away the centralization of authority that had been in the possession of the AG. There are also talks of changing the relationship between the President and the SoFE, and talks of setting up more clear rules for impeachment trials. So we are pursuing reform where it is needed.

Bringing back the SoIA is going to contribute to office surplus. You get too many offices, not enough competitive elections, and we already have too many offices, as you can see with random zombies taking up most positions in regional legislatures.

As far as I'm concerned, you were at least partially involved because you complied with orders to create that thread, which my impression from the leaks has been that that was going to become some sort of tool to justify Truman invalidating many Fed votes. Maybe you are just some sort of robotic person who does whatever Labor Leadership tells you to do, maybe you really did want to increase competition in the game, or maybe you were 'in on it'  and now your job is to damage control. The fact is, we don't know, and the correlation between your actions and what was actually being planned looks extraordinarily suspicious. It also looks extraordinarily suspicious that you are here devoting time to getting people to stop caring about this.

I think you're a good and well meaning person, but this comment is just entirely ignorant and I can't say it any nicer.

I hate and abhor everything LT has done, and I will never vote for him again. I'm sorry I voted for him Last June. But that does not provide justification for ignoring the clear attempt to destroy the game by OBD's cult.

No, it does not. But what it does justify is going after LT for his far more serious offense before going after anyone for involvement in this.

I don't necessarily see the game as being in some sort of dire state. We had 18 candidates for At-Large with the write-ins. We had 9 candidates getting a vote or having a vote transfer to them for Lincoln General Court. We had at least 2 candidates in each subregional race - several  had three. The South also had several more candidates than seats to allocate, and 3 candidates for Governor. True, turnout leaves something to be desired among the registered voter base as a whole. But the people that are here are eager to serve the game.

With the plot having been exposed, we are formally impeaching Truman and OBD (disappearance and deregistration notwithstanding) to avoid them causing any additional damage. We are removing agents of OBD from the government. We are bringing back SoIA and reinstating the SOS and SoFE to take away the centralization of authority that had been in the possession of the AG. There are also talks of changing the relationship between the President and the SoFE, and talks of setting up more clear rules for impeachment trials. So we are pursuing reform where it is needed.


As far as I'm concerned, you were at least partially involved because you complied with orders to create that thread, which my impression from the leaks has been that that was going to become some sort of tool to justify Truman invalidating many Fed votes. Maybe you are just some sort of robotic person who does whatever Labor Leadership tells you to do, maybe you really did want to increase competition in the game, or maybe you were 'in on it'  and now your job is to damage control. The fact is, we don't know, and the correlation between your actions and what was actually being planned looks extraordinarily suspicious. It also looks extraordinarily suspicious that you are here devoting time to getting people to stop caring about this.

I hate and abhor everything LT has done, and I will never vote for him again. I'm sorry I voted for him Last June. But that does not provide justification for ignoring the clear attempt to destroy the game by OBD's cult.

I once heard a circuit court judge state "you cant argue you cant be convicted for selling drugs just because you know another drug dealer across town whos not in custody".

Why do you think literally anyone cares what you think? You have no leg to stand on here.

[S019]

Bringing back the SoIA is going to contribute to office surplus. You get too many offices, not enough competitive elections, and we already have too many offices, as you can see with random zombies taking up most positions in regional legislatures.

SoIA is one of the offices that least endangers officer surplus with the dual office holding allowance and the semi-Presidentialism concept where it can be drawn from a member of the Senate.

The whole point is that it's a useless office that serves no purpose. Also the post below will this will actually illustrate my point, so let's go over this.

With the plot having been exposed, we are formally impeaching Truman and OBD (disappearance and deregistration notwithstanding) to avoid them causing any additional damage. We are removing agents of OBD from the government. We are bringing back SoIA and reinstating the SOS and SoFE to take away the centralization of authority that had been in the possession of the AG. There are also talks of changing the relationship between the President and the SoFE, and talks of setting up more clear rules for impeachment trials. So we are pursuing reform where it is needed.

Bringing back the SoIA is going to contribute to office surplus. You get too many offices, not enough competitive elections, and we already have too many offices, as you can see with random zombies taking up most positions in regional legislatures.

So apparently you have to be what, a major presence in the game to be elected to a regional legislature, under your rules? Regional Legislatures are often how people get started in this game. There has to be a beginning office, so to speak, and it has to be something relatively low-key that party leadership won't much care about if something goes terribly wrong. While newbies do sometimes end up in the federal government, that's a high risk environment and also sort of forces all the varying elements of the game onto them all at once. The regional legislature is the smaller, simpler, low risk environment that is meant for new players to 'get their feet wet'.

There should be a beginning office yes, but the problem is it's now becoming a place to stuff old has-beens, or at least those that aren't being stuffed in Congress.

Further, your point sort of falls flat when you look at who we just elected.

Lincoln:

ReaganClinton - has been in the game for years
Koopa - has been in the game for years
Adam Griffin - has been in the game for years, literally was President
Pink Panther - longtime voter looking to get into office - again, the regional legislature is where you do it, and there are no signs he will be inactive.
Zenobiyl - Okay, sure, he just got here, has no history, etc. etc. I get it. But he clearly has some interest given he ran in two elections held just two weeks apart, and so far he is showing up.

So only 2/5 (broadly speaking) classify as "random zombies", and neither has shown any signs of "inactivity".

Adam Griffin had not been active for a long time before this recent period, I remember prolonged bouts of inactivity from ReaganClinton too. To continue on the note of Lincoln specifically, even a bill to implement martial law had barely any debate. Even if these people aren't exactly zombies, they behave as zombie legislators, which is what matters.

South:

Reagente - been in the game for years
Ulmer - been in the game for years
Spark - been in the game for years
Tim - been in the game for years
Fhtagn - been in the game for years, literally was President


Don't see any random zombies here.

Ulmer basically behaves as a zombie while in the legislature and is basically the epitome of a zombie legislator. Fhtagn is nowhere near as active as she was in times past, and again, it's another example of stuffing old has-beens into regional legislatures due to a lack of talent. Spark+reagente, I will concede as recently active players, even if they're the type of people who'd be pushed into higher office if we had more players.

Fremont (last election in February):

ASV - been in the game for years
Battista Minola - been in the game for years, literally was VP
Peebs - literally one of the main people keeping this going.

Ah yes, the region which is like an hour away from banning men, what a compelling argument.

So your random zombies argument falls flat when you look at who is actually winning, and even if there were random zombies, regional legislatures are where we are supposed to give people a fair chance to succeed. They're not really supposed to be stocked with Olds.

Are you serious? Fhtagn, Griff, RC are all old players who had previously long been inactive who came back. Also the fact that there's only really two new players speaks to my point that there is an office surplus, which forces parties to bring back old players or just stuff random zombies into the position. In my opinion, the abolition of the regions is necessary to keep the game alive.

Further, we don't really have an office surplus. We had plenty of candidates this election, in February, in December, ....  - and plus, two regions adjust their legislatures according to interest anyways. The third is only fixed because it's gerrymandered.

We did not have plenty of candidates (at least on the regional level), in fact, I can remember several times in recent memory where Labor had to run paper candidates at the regional level to elect the right amount of people, since there was little interest.

On the SoIA, yes it does create what is somewhat of a vanity office, but quite frankly, maybe that's what we need. This whole plot happened in part because so much power was placed on the office of the Attorney General. We must take action to limit the level of power there, even if it might not create day to day activity.

No, the plot happened because people were bored, because the game feels stagnant. The elimination of superfluous offices would perhaps be the first (but not only) step towards a game that is once again engaging and alive.

As far as I'm concerned, you were at least partially involved because you complied with orders to create that thread, which my impression from the leaks has been that that was going to become some sort of tool to justify Truman invalidating many Fed votes. Maybe you are just some sort of robotic person who does whatever Labor Leadership tells you to do, maybe you really did want to increase competition in the game, or maybe you were 'in on it'  and now your job is to damage control. The fact is, we don't know, and the correlation between your actions and what was actually being planned looks extraordinarily suspicious. It also looks extraordinarily suspicious that you are here devoting time to getting people to stop caring about this.

I think you're a good and well meaning person, but this comment is just entirely ignorant and I can't say it any nicer.

I've read the leaks in their entirety (have you?). I also got awkwardly included in a conversation Sunday night when Truman left every discord group ever when things got leaked. I also was PMed things. I wouldn't say I was deeply involved in the opposition, but especially now, I understand the core of what was going on. I will say there are things that argue in your favor, in terms of not being directly involved - early in the leaks, there is some general mocking of you, and that long effortpost you made about this being some plot to make the right win received a good laugh and a response of "No" to "Does S019 know what is going on?". BUT, then there is clear agreement that you should be employed to conduct a "prosecution" of fraud, a statement that you are willingly awaiting orders, and proof that Truman was dming you.....but it's unclear how much you were dmed. What did Truman communicate to you in that conversation, or later? Who knows. What we do know is that you conducted your investigation at his orders, and provided a conclusion that would have served him well, had things not leaked. And now you're here trying to make us look away from it all.

Again, I've stated before why I went along with it, to the extent that I did, so we shan't dwell on that anymore. I think looking at the what and the how of the plot is missing the forest for the trees, prosecuting everyone involved and creating extra offices isn't going to stop another group of bored people from doing this again. Only one thing will: a total overhaul of the game. You need to have a conversation about how to change the game and something truly radical is needed, I don't know what that is, but I know that the creation of extra offices is a step in the wrong direction.

Are you merely a servant, who takes orders, because "Well, I'm a Laborite, I do whatever Leadership tells me, regardless of the merits." whose conclusion happened to accidentally align with Truman, or, were you eventually in on it all, once you were employed to create that thread? It's a question that Atlasians will continue to ponder for generations.

I was not employed to do anything, I do not take orders from the Labor Party. I am not a member of the Labor Party, I am a member of the glorious Parti Socialiste, please get your facts straight next time.

I hate and abhor everything LT has done, and I will never vote for him again. I'm sorry I voted for him Last June. But that does not provide justification for ignoring the clear attempt to destroy the game by OBD's cult.

No, it does not. But what it does justify is going after LT for his far more serious offense before going after anyone for involvement in this.

Unfortunately, LT has effectively won his innocence via the courts. The game does not control his forum sanctions, however light they may be. For whatever reason, Federalists are unwilling to excommunicate him [probably because the cost in loss of voters would be too great given their already perilous position in the game]. The situation is such that all routes to punish LT have simply been exhausted. He will always be a free man. There's nothing to be done at this point, aside from always voting against him.

All routes to punish are not exhausted though, to begin with, you can vote against everyone who stands by LT to punish his supporters. But that is not all, you could also try the case again in court. You could also take the most radical step of all, quit the game in protest, until something is done. Defeatism is never the answer, there is always something that can be done, to say otherwise is delusional.

So, the prudent thing is to focus on what can be accomplished. And that is what is happening now.

So punishing a few people who were bored? That really sends the wrong message when as I said above there are other things you can do.

I don't necessarily see the game as being in some sort of dire state. We had 18 candidates for At-Large with the write-ins. We had 9 candidates getting a vote or having a vote transfer to them for Lincoln General Court. We had at least 2 candidates in each subregional race - several  had three. The South also had several more candidates than seats to allocate, and 3 candidates for Governor. True, turnout leaves something to be desired among the registered voter base as a whole. But the people that are here are eager to serve the game.

With the plot having been exposed, we are formally impeaching Truman and OBD (disappearance and deregistration notwithstanding) to avoid them causing any additional damage. We are removing agents of OBD from the government. We are bringing back SoIA and reinstating the SOS and SoFE to take away the centralization of authority that had been in the possession of the AG. There are also talks of changing the relationship between the President and the SoFE, and talks of setting up more clear rules for impeachment trials. So we are pursuing reform where it is needed.


As far as I'm concerned, you were at least partially involved because you complied with orders to create that thread, which my impression from the leaks has been that that was going to become some sort of tool to justify Truman invalidating many Fed votes. Maybe you are just some sort of robotic person who does whatever Labor Leadership tells you to do, maybe you really did want to increase competition in the game, or maybe you were 'in on it'  and now your job is to damage control. The fact is, we don't know, and the correlation between your actions and what was actually being planned looks extraordinarily suspicious. It also looks extraordinarily suspicious that you are here devoting time to getting people to stop caring about this.

I hate and abhor everything LT has done, and I will never vote for him again. I'm sorry I voted for him Last June. But that does not provide justification for ignoring the clear attempt to destroy the game by OBD's cult.

I once heard a circuit court judge state "you cant argue you cant be convicted for selling drugs just because you know another drug dealer across town whos not in custody".

Why do you think literally anyone cares what you think? You have no leg to stand on here.

Mr. Reactionary provided key actions to save the game. Meanwhile you, at best, acted as a servant to its destruction, and at worst, were in on the act. And now you're here, trying to make us all look away.

Oh how wonderful, great to know that I can be excused for being extremely bigoted if I can save Atlasia! This is really a wonderful message to be sending!

In a parallel universe some version of S019 is arguing that nobody should try the 1/6 rioters until we bring every U.S. citizen who committed a crime overseas to stand trial within the country.

This is an incredibly lame straw man and cheap attempt at bait that is not worth a substantial reply.