Public IP Address Amendment [Passed to Regions]

[Franzl]

I was actually planning on introducing this until Franzl talked me out of it, then he must have changed his mind and introduced it himself.

Yeah sorry...just wanted to get the ball rolling. I have come to the conclusion that this proposal is indeed for the best

[Franzl]

Even if this passes I'm not going to comply unless you get Dave to publically post that it's ok.

You're not forced to do anything.

[Franzl]

As said, moderators aren't forced to release any information

This is primarily meant to allow evidence to be used in court if the Attorney General happens to find out about an IP match from a moderator.

[Franzl]

As said, moderators aren't forced to release any information

This is primarily meant to allow evidence to be used in court if the Attorney General happens to find out about an IP match from a moderator.

Then I oppose the bill.

As a mod, I only gather IP adresses when requested to in order to allow the Forum as a whole to keep track of concerns, sock accounts and trolls. I don't give two hoots about a 'prosecution' in a game.

For me the primary concern is keeping voter fraud from happening. Under the current system, as evidenced by recent rulings, such as Atlasia v. Sewer Socialist, it is impossible to prosecute people who have clearly broken the law simply because the Attorney General has no way of determining that a crime has been committed.

Nobody is asking that a moderator be forced to turn over IP addresses if he doesn't want to, but allowing people to be immune from prosecution simply because there was no reason to expect they had committed a crime seems counterproductive to me.

As always, we're talking about an internet forum, and I certainly wouldn't advocate this kind of thing in real life

[Franzl]

Actually on closer inspection the Act already covers this

Section 6: Admissibility of Evidence

The presiding Justice may admit the following as evidence of the crime at his own discretion:

    * 1. The actual statements made on the Atlas Forum itself
    * 2. Screenshots of the statements made.
    * 3. A quotation of the statement in a post by another Atlas Forum user.
    * 4. The testimony of forum users who viewed the statement itself.
    * 5. An admission by the accused in a thread on the Atlas Forum, or in a place viewed or heard by multiple persons, with recordings or testimony attributing to the same.
    * 6. Evidence obtained through investigation of the IP address from which the offence was perpetrated.
    * 7. Evidence given to the Court by the Forum Moderators or the Forum Owner, Dave Leip obtained in their capacity in that position.

The amendment may therefore be surplus to requirement.

The problem is that the Attorney General has no way of discovering that a crime has been committed in most cases.

It's almost impossible on the Internet to have probable cause, and therefore, I think it should only be fair for an IP match (sure, it doesn't have to be the actual address that is released ) to be valid evidence, even if the Attorney General is alerted to the fact without "probable cause".

[Franzl]

If you disagree with the Keystone Phil rule and/or my decision in Sewer Socialist this constitutional amendment is absolutely the best way to go.

I'm not sure it's a matter of disagreeing with your decision. I believe you made the correct ruling based on current law and the precedence set by Keystone Phil. I think (hope) most people feel the same way.

But even though you ruled correctly, I think it's important to decide whether we want to maintain the current legal situation.

[Franzl]

oh, and I accept Afleitch's amendment as friendly.

[Franzl]

Couldn't the resulting action taken by the mods as a result of the IP check be used as evidence, under existing law?  In the case of Sewer Socialist:

No, as the Attorney General had no probable cause to obtain a search warrant.

[Franzl]

Couldn't the resulting action taken by the mods as a result of the IP check be used as evidence, under existing law?  In the case of Sewer Socialist:

No, as the Attorney General had no probable cause to obtain a search warrant.

But no search warrant is needed for the evidence I just posted.

At least in my opinion, the IP match as evidence was already tainted because the Attorney General used illegal evidence to charge Sewer Socialist with a crime, and cannot be used now.

[Franzl]

Aye, this amendment allows IP matches to be used without fear of illegaly acting for the state and violating the defendent's rights. It is essential that we are able to prosecute people for crimes like voter fraud, which is near impossible in many cases at the present time.